The Midlife Tune-Up: “Injectable Threads” VS. Fillers, WTF Is PRFM & More Reverse Aging Skin Secrets with Esthetician Shani Darden

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast Summary: The Midlife Tune-Up with Shani Darden Release Date: July 30, 2025

Hosts: Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins
Guest: Shani Darden, Esteemed Esthetician

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Introduction to Shani Darden and Her Expertise

In this episode of the Breaking Beauty Podcast, hosts Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins welcome back Shani Darden, a renowned esthetician who has worked with celebrities such as Shay Mitchell, Jessica Alba, and Laura Harrier. Shani joins the show for her third appearance, bringing a wealth of knowledge on advanced skincare treatments and anti-aging techniques.

[00:48] Carlene Higgins:
“We’ve interviewed incredible founders like Emily Weiss from Glossier and professionals like celebrity estheticians Shani Darden...”

A Tour of Beverly Hills Oasis

The hosts share their firsthand experience visiting Shani’s spa, Beverly Hills Oasis, highlighting its serene and inviting atmosphere, which contrasts with the typically clinical feel of many med spas.

[01:45] Carlene Higgins:
“We walked into Shani’s spa, and it felt like a warm hug. The scandi-inspired interior made it feel more like a therapist’s office than a typical med spa.”

Injectable Threads vs. Fillers

Shani delves into the differences between injectable threads and traditional fillers, emphasizing the natural plumping effect of Plasma Rich Fibrin Matrix (PRFM) as an alternative to fillers.

[10:06] Guest (Shani Darden):
“I do PRFM around my mouth and eyes because it’s like using your body’s natural filler, boosting collagen without the permanence of traditional fillers.”

Shani explains that PRFM involves drawing a patient's blood, processing it into a gel-like substance, and injecting it to plump specific areas, offering a more natural and adjustable approach compared to fillers.

Understanding PRFM: A Natural Approach to Plumping

PRFM is highlighted as a rejuvenating treatment that stimulates collagen production, resulting in a natural and refreshed appearance. Shani shares her personal love for PRFM, noting its effectiveness and minimal downtime.

[12:18] Shani Darden:
“I absolutely love PRFM because it plumps up the skin naturally while boosting collagen, giving a more youthful appearance without the need for permanent fillers.”

Micro Channeling vs. Microneedling

The discussion moves to micro channeling, a gentler alternative to microneedling. Shani explains the benefits of micro channeling, including improved skin texture, acne scar reduction, and enhanced product absorption without the aggressive nature of microneedling.

[18:46] Guest (Shani Darden):
“Micro channeling is less aggressive than microneedling, with minimal downtime while still effectively boosting collagen and improving skin texture.”

Shani emphasizes the importance of professional administration to avoid complications, such as infections or excessive irritation, which can occur with improper microneedling techniques.

Retinol: Myths and Best Practices

A significant portion of the episode focuses on retinol, debunking common myths and offering best practices for its use. Shani addresses the misconception that retinol thins the skin, clarifying that it actually boosts collagen production, resulting in thicker, healthier skin over time.

[36:38] Guest (Shani Darden):
“Yes, retinoids actually boost collagen, making your skin thicker. The myth that they thin the skin likely stems from the initial irritation some experience when starting a retinol regimen.”

Shani advises listeners to introduce retinol gradually into their skincare routines, starting with once a week and slowly increasing usage to prevent irritation. She also stresses the importance of using a gentle cleanser and sunscreen to protect sensitive skin, especially when using retinol.

[43:56] Guest (Shani Darden):
“You always want to start with once a week and add a day each week. Use a gentle cleanser and always follow with a moisturizer to buffer the strength of the retinol.”

Shani Darden’s Product Line: Retinol Reform and Beyond

Shani discusses her flagship product, Retinol Reform, which has been a favorite among her clients for its gentle yet effective formulation. She announces the launch of Retinol Reform 2.0, which features encapsulated retinol for a slower, more controlled release, enhancing its gentleness and effectiveness.

[31:14] Guest (Shani Darden):
“I’m using a new encapsulated retinol in Retinol Reform 2.0. This allows for a slower release under the skin, making it more gentle while still providing strong anti-aging benefits.”

Shani also highlights her vitamin C serum, Pro Heal by Shani, at 15%, which she considers essential for brightening and evening out skin tone.

[51:28] Guest (Shani Darden):
“My favorite vitamin C serum is Pro Heal by Shani Darden. The 15% concentration is perfect for brightening and improving skin texture.”

Red Light Therapy: Benefits and Considerations

The conversation shifts to red light therapy, where Shani emphasizes the importance of using FDA-cleared devices to ensure safety and efficacy. She recommends consistent use and highlights the need for high-quality devices to achieve desired results.

[53:02] Guest (Shani Darden):
“Red light therapy works best when using FDA-cleared devices consistently. At my office, we use Light Stem products, which are among the first to receive FDA clearance for their effectiveness.”

Essential Products for Aging Gracefully

Shani shares her top shelf essentials for a midlife skin tune-up, including Retinol Reform, vitamin C serums, and gentle moisturizers. She underscores the importance of a consistent skincare routine that prioritizes foundational ingredients like retinol, vitamin C, and sunscreen to maintain youthful and healthy skin.

[51:28] Guest (Shani Darden):
“I can’t live without my retinol and triple acid signature peel. Alongside my favorite vitamin C serum, these are must-haves for maintaining a youthful complexion.”

Conclusion: Embracing Age with Confidence

The episode wraps up with Shani encouraging listeners to embrace their age while utilizing advanced skincare treatments to enhance their natural beauty. She reiterates the importance of professional guidance in skincare to achieve optimal results without falling for gimmicky trends.

[55:57] Guest (Shani Darden):
“I wanted to come back to share all these advanced treatments because everyone who walks out of my atelier looks like they’re aging in reverse. It’s about embracing age with the right tools and knowledge.”

---

Notable Quotes:

• Carlene Higgins [02:24]:
  “I was like, look at my face. Because I honestly haven't really experienced anything quite like that before.”

• Shani Darden [10:38]:
  “It’s an injection where you’re putting it in around your eyes, it’s kind of like your body's natural filler.”

• Shani Darden [36:38]:
  “Retinoids actually boost collagen, making your skin thicker.”

• Shani Darden [31:14]:
  “Encapsulated retinol allows for a slower release under the skin, making it more gentle while still providing strong anti-aging benefits.”

• Shani Darden [53:02]:
  “Red light therapy works best when using FDA-cleared devices consistently.”

Timestamp References:

• Guest introductions and spa visit: [00:48] to [02:24]
• Injectable threads vs. fillers: [10:06] to [17:08]
• Micro channeling vs. microneedling: [18:46] to [20:56]
• Retinol usage and myths: [36:38] to [40:33]
• Product discussions: [51:28] to [55:20]
• Red light therapy: [52:14] to [54:03]

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights shared during the episode, providing listeners with valuable information on advanced skincare treatments and best practices for maintaining youthful skin during midlife.

Transcript

[Jill Dunn]

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome to Breaking Beauty the podcast, all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty. We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

[Carlene Higgins]

Welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast, everyone. I'm Jill Dunn, one of your co hosts. Hey there, Carlene. How are you?

[Jill Dunn]

Hello, Jill. We are Carlene Jill, back in your feeds for another epic episode today. We are two longtime magazine beauty editors turned beauty podcasters who chat about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty every single Wednesday. And we've been doing just that for eight years now.

[Carlene Higgins]

And in our catalog of more than 400 episodes, you'll find our hashtag damn good episodes where we review products to let you know what's worth the spend according to us. Plus, you'll find chats with incredible founders like Emily Weiss from Glossier and professionals in the industry like Sophie, Sophia Richie's makeup artist Patty Dubrov, Jennifer Aniston's hair guru Chris McMillan, and celebrity estheticians like Joanna Check. And our guest today who's returning for her third time esthetician, Shawnee Darden.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes, Shawnee works with major celebs like Shay Mitchell, Jessica Alba and Laura Harrier. Shawnee first appeared on our show back in 2019 where she shared her top treatments for transforming your skin like an a lister. She and I had a great conversation all about teen skin care. This was even before Sephora Teens was a thing. So we'll link to both of those episodes in our show notes. You can get a little catch up.

[Carlene Higgins]

And Carlene, this time when we interviewed Shawnee, we had an opportunity to go to her spa and get a facial firsthand at her Beverly Hills Oasis. And everyone, it is like walking into a warm hug. It's one of the most serene spaces ever because I find a lot of esthetician spaces and this is no hate, no shade, but often they are like a med spa environment where is a little bit more clinical. Right where I found hers was sort of like this scandi inspired interior. Almost like it could have been a therapist's office.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Very, very warm and inviting.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. And I got a treatment with one of her estheticians. Her name is Brittany. You got in with Shawnee personally, so I can't wait to hear about that. Carlene. So, so you can book an appointment. They're either an hour 75 minutes and they're honestly really customized to what you need. So Britney did a steam on me. I was like right off of a plane. So it was like steam, full exfoliation, extractions, LED mask With both blue and red light. And probably the most interesting part was she just did this like flash contact lactic acid based mask. And damn, I was glowing at the end. Did you have that as well?

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yeah. My face looked like a disco ball. It was so glowy. Collective. After I actually was sending Shawnee pictures the next day because I was just like, look at my face. Because I honestly haven't really experienced anything quite like that before. That was definitely the lactic acid mask. And of course she has her own lactic acid product in her line, which is inspired by that in office. In office treatment. I also got this great lymphatic drainage add on. It's called presotherapy and it like went over my abdomen and it's just that kind of. You know, we've talked about those ones where you put on the pants that Jennifer Aniston used to have. So it was kind of like a tummy version of that. So I was enjoying that while I was getting my facial, having great chats with Shawnee. And of course, Shawnee herself just looks amazing. You know, she just. She just turned 50. I just turned 50 the other day and I feel like we have so much in common. No, but she looks. She looks great.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. And one of her newer products, Carlene, I'm just going to shout it out really quickly. It's an azelaic acid serum and it's really good. It's really good. I've almost emptied one of them. It's very calming for any redness that you have. And Shani had even said to me, because I had seen her, we interviewed her. And then later, about a month later, we did the. The spa treatments and she said to me, she's like, I notice you have a lot less redness around the jaw. And we hadn't even talked about her product. And I was like, yeah, like, it is really good. And azelaic acid, often it is prescription only. So I just wanted to shout out the one. This one, because it's over the counter.

[Shawnee Darden]

Absolutely. It. I think a lot of people are.

[Jill Dunn]

Familiar with Shani's retinol reform. It's won quite a few awards. It's very gentle as far. Gentle but effective is the whole beauty of that product. And she's actually launching a 2.0. She just launched it this month. So Shani's going to talk to us about that in this episode, why she reformulated one of her greatest hits, which is a risky thing to do. So she's going to give us the DL on that and the whole thing with Shawnee is like everyone who's walking out of her atelier looks like they're aging in reverse. So we had to take this opportunity to sit down with her again to get the 411 and everything that she's doing personally and for her clients to embrace age. But, you know, keep them guessing at the same time.

[Carlene Higgins]

Absolutely. We also took this opportunity to ask her some of those questions that we always have to go back to the back to Bas 6 with retinol because sometimes I feel like people like, they start and they stop and then they start and they stop and they're like, oh, how do I get back on this routine? How do I get through those retinol quote unquote uglies? You know, is it a myth that you can't use retinol during the day? Like all of these things that there's so much information out there? So we're going to the point person to get these details. So stay tuned for that.

[Jill Dunn]

And as always, everything that Shani mentions and recommends will link to over on our website @breaking beauty podcast.com and please subscribe and watch this episode on our YouTube channel, which is also Breaking Beauty Podcast. Welcome back to the show, Shani Darden. Today's episode is brought to you in part by Silk London. We love female entrepreneurs over here at Breaking Beauty Podcast. That's why everybody needs to know about Silk London. Founded by top London hair stylist Maria Saturu, who was inspired by her Caribbean heritage and the centuries old ritual of wrapping hair in silk to protect and nourish it overnight. She turned that into Silk London, the creators of 100% silk hair tools designed to reduce breakage, tame frizz and give you healthier, more beautiful hair while you sleep. I'm wearing one of the 100% silk hair ties in my hair right now. I've been living in these all summer. But their best seller is actually the hair wrap. The hair wrap protects skin as well as hair because the turban keeps oils and bacteria from unwashed hair off of your pillow. So this is ideal for breakout prone skin. The hair wrap is a cult favorite though for overnight protection because it reduces frizz, dryness, breakage while extending the life of your hairstyle, whether it's a blow dry or waves or curls for days. And also it helps cut down on hair washing and styling time. Perfect for multitasking beauty lovers. They also have heatless curlers. These are perfect for summer. It creates bouncy, frizz free waves with no heat damage. Everybody loves that. And all of the products are made with 100 pure 22 mom silk. That's what it's called, the highest quality grade, delivering results that you can really feel. If you want to try it for yourself, head on over to silklondon.com and use the exclusive code BEAUTY20. For 20 off your first order that Silk Score L K E london.com code BEAUTY20. We're going to link to that in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Kinsey]

Hi, y'.

[Shawnee Darden]

All.

[Kinsey]

I'm Kinsey and I'm the host of Houseguests podcast. I am a Gen Z wannabe Martha Stewart meets Dolly Parton trying to live in a Nancy Myers movie. We talk all about life, relationships, and navigating your 20s. I'd like to say I'm multifaceted. I'm either waking up at 4am in the sauna, tending to my garden, or closing out the bars until 2am you just never know what you're gonna get. It's either me at home in my house in Texas that I spend way too much time in or in the studio with some pretty cool guests. You can follow us at thehousecustpod and listen or watch all new episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcast or on YouTube.

[Shawnee Darden]

Welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast.

[Guest]

So excited.

[Shawnee Darden]

I think this is a triple. I think this is your third time.

[Guest]

No. Yes. Really?

[Shawnee Darden]

Yes.

[Guest]

Wow. I have gotten older. I didn't know that.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yes, because we came into your studio the first time.

[Guest]

I remember that.

[Shawnee Darden]

The second time, we did a phoner.

[Jill Dunn]

Over COVID lockdown and Joe wasn't around.

[Shawnee Darden]

And we talked about Teen Skin.

[Guest]

I remember that now. I forgot about COVID And I think.

[Shawnee Darden]

This was even before the tween at Sephora Talk, but it was because my daughter was, like, getting acne and you were showing your daughters on Instagram and yada, yada, yada. So anyway, congrats. I think you're the only one who's been on three times, so so far, Third timer club.

[Guest]

Oh, my gosh, I feel cool.

[Jill Dunn]

Third timer club.

[Shawnee Darden]

And I heard a little birdie told me you just turned 50.

[Guest]

I did.

[Shawnee Darden]

You look incredible.

[Jill Dunn]

Thank you.

[Guest]

I'm trying to do all the things.

[Shawnee Darden]

I'm turning 50 this year as well.

[Guest]

You look great, too.

[Shawnee Darden]

Well, thank you. We're going to learn all of your secrets.

[Guest]

Okay, I'll tell you all because I.

[Shawnee Darden]

Feel like your clients are all aging in reverse. We, like, we need to have what you're having. So what's been the biggest difference maker for you, that's put time on hold. What would you.

[Guest]

I would say just a combination of things. I obviously have been using retinol forever. It's my favorite ingredient. I would say that I'm really good about my skin care. I don't. I'm never in the sun. I'm pretty careful with that. But also, I've been doing little things like prfm. I'm really into.

[Shawnee Darden]

What is that?

[Guest]

So it's when they take the blood. They take your blood and then they spin it and it goes into almost like a gel form.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay.

[Guest]

And then they inject it into your face and areas to, like, plump.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

So around your eyes, it's like your body's natural filler.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay. But how's it different from prp?

[Guest]

PRP is when they're microneedling it, and I don't know how I feel about that. And I'm just not a doctor. I've been trying to, like, understand it, but that's where they're microneedling. They've taken your blood out.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

I don't know if they spin it. I don't know that. Then they put it all over your face and then they microneedle it. And for me. Yeah. And I don't know that I completely understand that. But PR fm, I absolutely love. It just makes such a difference to not, like, put filler under your eyes. Yeah. It's like. So I do it more natural.

[Shawnee Darden]

So it's an injection.

[Guest]

Oh, wow.

[Shawnee Darden]

Where are you putting it? How much?

[Guest]

I do it around my mouth and I do it around my eyes. I'm actually doing it again on Thursday. It's my. It's literally my favorite thing. What I'll say is that you end up doing it more often than what they tell you.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay. How often?

[Guest]

Me, like, I could come in on a Monday and be like, I think my under eye looks a little hollow today.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And maybe we'll take some blood.

[Shawnee Darden]

Wow.

[Guest]

So I've probably done it this year, probably four times.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay. Yeah. And what are the results that you.

[Guest]

So it kind of just fills in the area. It's literally like using filler, but it's supposed to boost collagen in your skin.

[Carlene Higgins]

Rejuvenating.

[Guest]

Yeah. So it's supposed to do that so you wouldn't need to do it as often.

[Shawnee Darden]

And so you see a difference.

[Guest]

Yes. And you don't notice the first time. You notice a little bit, but you really have to hang in there until your second or third time.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay. Okay.

[Guest]

That's probably my favorite.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

I really stay away from filler. I do a little bit of Botox right here, and I only do it once a year.

[Shawnee Darden]

She pointed to the 11s. Oh, yeah.

[Guest]

And then I. The only place I do filler is in my hands, which I'm obsessed with. I love filler. Oh, it's my favorite. But you have really great hands.

[Shawnee Darden]

Well, thank you.

[Guest]

Yeah, those are good hands. But I love that. And that's kind of it. Everything else is treatments in my studio, a lot of microcurrent, vibration therapy. I do it all. Yeah, I'm doing it all in there.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

I just want to stay away from everything else. Not that I'm opposed to a facelift. That day will come, probably.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

But I. I really do want to stay away from having fillers in my.

[Shawnee Darden]

I feel the same way. I was just talking about this earlier. I'm. And to each his own, obviously, but for myself, I. It's an absolute no go. I just went yesterday and had Botox. Love Botox.

[Guest]

Yeah, it's great.

[Shawnee Darden]

But, you know, she was like, anywhere where normally there would be filler. Like, I did these lines, the marionette lines, and I just did one on each side because my mouth is turning down. And she's like, how about a bit of filler? And I was like, how about a bit of Botox? Yeah, I'm not doing the filler.

[Guest]

Just think it's such a slippery slope and it doesn't go away. You keep building on it and building on it.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah, totally agree. I love that you've given us an alternative, though, that's plumping and that people can do.

[Carlene Higgins]

Who do you trust to spin and inject?

[Guest]

So there is someone that works at my office named Christine, and she's from the Things we do, which is Vanessa Lee, who owns that. She's got several of them, and that's who does it for me. Okay. Yeah. And she's great and, like, very gentle and.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And the great thing about it is, is that there's only down. Well, everyone's different. But for me, it's probably like two days where you can tell. Like, the first time I did it, when I came home, my kids just kept staring at me. And finally my daughter was like, did you do something? And I said, oh, yeah, I did this thing at work. And she said, I thought you had a facelift. And I was like, a little extreme Phoenix. But, like, wow. Yeah. Yeah. You're, like, really swollen in the area. If you get it around your mouth, your nasal labial folds, it's not as Obvious. But around your eyes, it's okay. It's a little.

[Carlene Higgins]

See it?

[Guest]

Yeah. It's a little nutso.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Shawnee Darden]

Interesting.

[Guest]

But like, gorgeous later.

[Shawnee Darden]

Wow.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Love. I can see how that would be addicting. You're like, it's not as. It's real voluminous as it got four weeks ago.

[Guest]

Let me do it again.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah, it's like Botox.

[Guest]

I find that a lot. I see a lot of actresses coming back into the studio for that treatment. As much as I'm getting it done. Right.

[Shawnee Darden]

Oh, interesting. Right?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, it's the new maintenance.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. I love it.

[Shawnee Darden]

Also under the eyes, like the dark circles, that's really hard. Like there's. There's not a lot of skin care products you can use for that.

[Guest]

No, it's really hard. And a lot of times it's hereditary as we age. But also you can use things to brighten the area. But that's where people get into filler, which is why this is good, because it's raising your. It's raising the area. So.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Doesn't look as dark.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Shawnee Darden]

Love it.

[Carlene Higgins]

I remember a few years ago, Gwyneth Paltrow famously talked about the quote, unquote, 40 year old tune up in Hollywood. And we never quite knew what she was referencing, but I definitely think it's one of those if you know, you know, moments. Now, I know you don't necessarily work with Gwyneth, but in your professional opinion, what is the if, you know, you know, 50 year old tune up in Beverly Hills?

[Guest]

I would say that so many people do threads.

[Shawnee Darden]

Really?

[Guest]

I would say that that would be people that aren't doing. Getting like a mini facelift or whatever. I think that they're doing all the threads.

[Shawnee Darden]

Really?

[Guest]

So many threads. Okay.

[Shawnee Darden]

I thought that was dead in the water.

[Guest]

I forgot. I lied. That's another thing that I do around my nasal labial folds. Okay, so there are threads that are long thread. Remember, I'm not a nurse.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay.

[Guest]

There are threads that are long where they actually put them in and they kind of pull you up and that's almost like a procedure. Like, it's. The threads I do are about an inch long and they inject them here. And it does the same thing as like your blood or your plasma from your blood. It fills the area. So I'll do that quite often as well, where I get like five on each side. When I say quite often. I haven't done it in a while, to be honest, but I. It's one of my favorite treatments, but I think A lot of people are doing the lifting.

[Carlene Higgins]

You're not. You're using threads and to fill.

[Guest]

Yeah, there's different types. So there's thickening threads and lifting threads. Yes. The long threads, where it's like a whole thing where someone's, like, literally in your face. Yeah, that's what I think a lot of people are doing.

[Shawnee Darden]

Really?

[Guest]

Still.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay.

[Guest]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I think a lot of people are doing that. So it's almost. It feels as if you were getting Botox.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay, interesting. And so where would you go to get that done?

[Guest]

I do it at my studio. Yeah.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay. Okay.

[Guest]

Yeah. So that's one of the other things. But like I said, there's a lot of people that are doing the. Yeah, the big, long threads, which is. You're awake for that and I can't. But, like, they are. Yeah, because you can get that all the way here. You can look.

[Jill Dunn]

Your eyes.

[Shawnee Darden]

So when you see clients come in who have had this done, do you think, like, do you like it or do you ever. Because you're touching their skin, you're looking at it, you're manipulating it.

[Guest]

I don't think that you would notice other than they might look better and more refreshed because you do hear nobody.

[Shawnee Darden]

And weird things sometimes.

[Guest]

Yeah. No one's ever. I've never, like, noticed, and no one's ever told me. I just.

[Shawnee Darden]

No, Right, right.

[Carlene Higgins]

And if you know, you know.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah, yeah.

[Guest]

But that is definitely a thing. And there's. There's a. So many people that do it. The things we do, they do it. But also, Dr. Few, he. I know he sees a lot of people, and he's, like, a master at it.

[Shawnee Darden]

And he's good.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Shawnee Darden]

With.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Shawnee Darden]

So we'll link. So we'll link to him.

[Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay, cool. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And what else? What else?

[Guest]

I mean, I still know people are still stuck on a lot of the lasers. I'm not still not there yet because of the heat. Freaks me out. And I worry so much about melasma. But a lot of people are doing lasers. But I would say most people that are getting to a certain age now are definitely doing all the threads.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

All the time.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wow. Surprising.

[Shawnee Darden]

And I noticed that on your spa menu, you offer something called micro channeling. Now, I've heard of micro needling. So what is the difference?

[Guest]

So it's the same. It's basically the same thing. Micro channeling is what estheticians can do, whereas microneedling is a longer depth needle where a nurse or a doctor would do. I like things that aren't as aggressive. So I really like micro channeling. The downtime is less than microneedling, but you're going to get amazing results. Helps to boost collagen in your skin, helps with texture, acne scars. It's really actually one of my favorite treatments, even for melasma. Like having it done and then having someone use, you know, topicals like a retinol or tranexamic acid all like combined can really lighten the area.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah, it's, it's funny I was saying this to Jill that I find that so many facialists have said microneedling is like intrinsic to their own routine. Like this is something they would never give up. And I've never actually tried microneedling. I know that Jill has. So maybe you could tell us like again for this 50 year old tune up, like what is this micro channeling going to kind of like get you that you can't get just with skincare on its own or I think, well.

[Guest]

A couple of things. It's going to help with texture and to boost collagen. And the great thing about micro channeling is that everything you've opened these channels so you can use other products. It's just like even the at home ones you can use use products to target certain things, certain skin issues. So if that's fine lines or pigmentation. So it's kind of, it's just like my favorite treatment. And also it's not using heat, which I think is something that always I have, I try to stay away from. So. But it is one of my favorite treatments and I do it at home as well. And I like the at home devices if they're good ones. I'm not saying all because there are some that are wild.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

You can just buy the pen that estheticians use on Amazon.

[Guest]

Yeah. You can really hurt yourself and you have to know what you're doing. But I love an at home, a really good at home device and then I'll use it because I have melasma on my upper lip. So I'll.

[Carlene Higgins]

What's your favorite at home device?

[Guest]

So Environ has one that's not aggressive.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Guest]

It's really, really.

[Shawnee Darden]

That's just the roller.

[Guest]

It's a roller and then cure has one.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh yes.

[Guest]

I like theirs.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay.

[Guest]

But also like it is you, you want to follow the, follow the directions for sure. If you're using that at home.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's in. Be hygienic with it and everything and don't be sharing it.

[Guest]

Yes. But that goes along with everything. I just saw someone that came in and she's been breaking out for such a long time because of this. She had micro needling done by an esthetician that did it on while she had active breakouts.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, you can't do that.

[Guest]

And it spread the bacteria everywhere. And she's been breaking out since.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wow.

[Guest]

Like, I've been seeing her, like, every two weeks to get her back on track. And so you really have to go to someone that knows what they're doing.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah, for sure.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. They always say that. And I'm curious, do you do your own micro needling on yourself or micro channeling?

[Guest]

I do, I do.

[Carlene Higgins]

Do you numb or not?

[Guest]

I don't, because that's why I like micro channeling better. So if it was. If it was micro needling, I don't know if I could get through that. Unless you, like, gassed me or something. You know what I mean?

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

It just seems like nowhere.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

There's a couple of estheticians I know in Toronto and they. They forego the numbing. It's insane.

[Guest]

See, I couldn't do it if it was. It's just so painful. And also, like, it's like, repetitive.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Like it's too much.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. I mean, I didn't mind it. Like, I don't think it's painful at all with the numbing cream on it, but I also think the numbing cream is just. It just makes sense. It's like flash, you know, it's like just while you're getting the treatment, it's not like your face is numb for hours later. It's like, just. Just, you know, use these medical advancements, everybody.

[Guest]

I agree.

[Jill Dunn]

This episode is brought to you in part by vamore. We've been talking all about the midlife tuneup today. Everything to do with your skin and your face. How about your scalp and your hair? I'm pushing 50. I notice when I put my hair up in a ponytail, I've got this. This gappiness that happens at the side. So it's time for next level hair care. This is where Vegamore's Grow plus advanced supplements come in. It was developed by MDS and it's backed by vigorous clinical placebo Studies. In just 30 days, users reported less shedding and visibly healthier hair with full transformation in three to four months. That's super impressive. These are independent clinical trials and dermatologist evaluations that showed up to 91% reduction in hair loss and significant increases in density and thickness.

[Guest]

That's.

[Jill Dunn]

I mean, Sign me up. That's all I can say. I really appreciate that you can stay consistent with it. They offer 30 travel ready daily packets. So I'm going to be taking these to Italy. What's in it? You probably want to know. Well they have plant powered DHT blockers like Reishi mushroom, turmeric, pumpkin seed as well as all of the vitamins that you need. Vitamins A, C, D, E, B12, zinc, selenium is really going to help to nourish those follicles, help to promote that scalp health. And they are vegan, non GMO, drug free and if you want to try it for yourself, I mean see real hair growth from the inside out with Vamore's Grow plus advanced supplements. For a limited time go to vegamore.com Beauty and use code Beauty to get 20% off your first order. That's VG A M O U R.com Beauty code Beauty vegamore.com Beauty code Beauty these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[Carlene Higgins]

This episode is brought to you in partnership with Medicaid. So we've been talking all about retinol today everyone and I personally just love brands that stick to the tried and true ingredients but make them modern. That's why I love Medicaid. Medicaid is a clinically proven British skincare brand known for age defying results. And all of the formulas are dermatologist recommended.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, why don't you stop coming for all my Medicaid products, Jill?

[Carlene Higgins]

I will stop all of them.

[Jill Dunn]

She keeps asking me for more. So we know that you're a super fan and I know that Medicaid just launched their new C Tetra Advanced gel serum. It pairs 20 powerful and stabilized vitamin C with barrier supporting phyto exosomes. I think that's so important because vitamin C can kind of eat away at your skin barrier if it's not formulated right. Jill, you've been using it, what are your thoughts?

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, I feel like my skin is glowing. It's just, it's Vitamin C. What's brilliant about it is that it gives you that overall even look. And it's just maybe you from far away you can't even pinpoint why it looks so good but up close you can see it's like fading those brown spots that maybe I got from inadvertently getting too much sun. I feel like my pores look smaller and it's just giving that overall radiance which makes you look look younger. And it's meant to visibly brighten smooth skin texture and improve wrinkles in just one week.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, it's the one, two, punch the retinol, the vitamin C, you're basically covered. Add your sunscreen, you're good to go. Now, if y' all want to try it for yourself, Medicate. C Tetra Advanced Gel Face Serum is available online@Medicaid US. That's Medik and the number 8 US use code breaking 20 for 20 off your order.

[Carlene Higgins]

We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Shawnee Darden]

And all these lasers and peels, like, there. There is that mentality of, like, injuring your skin so that it can heal itself. But is there, like, a line that you need to be careful of? Because for myself, as someone with rosacea, I have aging skin, but I'm like, there's just something in my gut where I'm like, there are certain. There's a certain place I can't go.

[Jill Dunn]

Where I just worry that I've had.

[Guest]

I've done a lot of. I. I did lasers in the past, and my pigmentation got way worse. And I went to someone really good. I just heat for me with, like, melting fat and pigmentation. I'm just very nervous about it still. As much research as I've done. So I'm not saying that they don't work, but I think it's hard, especially if you don't have really fair skin. You just never know. I haven't tried any of the newer lasers. And the one thing that I hear all the time, if I ask someone, like, they'll say, yeah, I've been doing this laser. And I'll ask them, like, do you notice a difference? And they're like, yeah. And that's always the answer. I'm like, that's not good enough for me to do that. Yeah, that's not that. Yeah, I didn't like. So that's why I. I get nervous. There's one laser, though, I have to think about what the name is, and I'm. I. I've heard great things about it. Everyone says they get amazing results, but. But it does also have heat.

[Shawnee Darden]

Jill and I did the XLV earlier laser Genesis. I actually did like it because it actually is supposed to help with rosacea.

[Guest]

And how did. Oh, yes, yes.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah. And so my skin, it definitely helps with pigmentation.

[Guest]

I agree with that, though. For people that have rosacea, a couple. Doing a couple rounds of even ipl. Yeah, I've noticed a difference with the redness yeah.

[Shawnee Darden]

Because again, topically there's very little you can do other than azelic. Azelic acid, aic, Azelaic acid, soft wave.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, softwave.

[Shawnee Darden]

Oh, software.

[Guest]

I have heard, everyone that I know that has done that says that they really notice the difference. And I'm, I really want to try it, but it's really so expensive. Oh, like so expensive.

[Shawnee Darden]

Really?

[Guest]

Like when you say super expensive, it was like $4,000. And I think that that was for me to get a discount and I, I don't really want to test that out. And the doctor that I talked to said that you only need one treatment.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah, that's a little.

[Guest]

And I think it's heat.

[Carlene Higgins]

Skin tightening, everyone, is what the idea is. I'm looking it up right now. It uses ultrasound technology to renew the skin via stimulation. And yeah, it uses ultrasound parallel beam technology to generate heat 1.5 millimeters below the skin surface.

[Guest]

Okay, interesting. That's the one that I've heard about though.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

My patients in their 30s still have a little baby fat, says this dermatologist. But they want to look really defined, so he's giving them a more chiseled jawline. And it's also, I want that. It's also for people who are 50 plus.

[Guest]

They say, yeah, I want all of that. I'm 50 plus. And I want a chiseled jawline immediately. I just want someone that, I want to see them before I want them to do the treatment. I want them to come back to me for real. Proof.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yes. Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

I love the bar that you set because you've seen it all and you could be so easily like giving every treatment at your, your spa, but you're not.

[Guest]

No, no.

[Carlene Higgins]

Kind of reminds me of Dr. Dennis Gross. He just like, he's like, I know it works and so true.

[Guest]

And you.

[Carlene Higgins]

And your name is on the door.

[Guest]

You just watch over time, like, we've been doing it long enough. I mean, he's been doing it forever. And you watch and you're like, here we are, back here again. Because that's what works like. But we're going to talk about all of this. So. Yeah, I don't. A lot of it is just, it's all gimmicky.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Everyone wants to take your money.

[Shawnee Darden]

Totally. Yeah. I want to talk about at home treatments. So there's so many new fuzzy ingredients right now, like just, you know, peptides and growth factors and all of that. Retinol though is like you mentioned, just like tried and true gold standard you came up with. Yours, like 10 years ago, the retinol reform, it's won so many awards. Now you have news you're actually reformulating, is that right?

[Guest]

Yes. So I'm reformulating just because, I mean, every brand has a retinol. You've got to like, keep up with everything. And so I just wanted to do something just as effective but even more gentle. So I'm using a new encapsulated retinol. And then I just filled it with every kind of antioxidant just to take it to the next level as far as anti aging.

[Shawnee Darden]

Right.

[Guest]

But it was just kind of time. It's not that I don't, you know, it's just like, like every brand now has a retinol. So it's something that I wanted to do. So I'm excited.

[Carlene Higgins]

She's getting a facelift.

[Guest]

Yes, yes.

[Shawnee Darden]

So what is the. Tell us more about the encapsulated and how that works.

[Guest]

So the encapsulated retinol, what that does is it means it's a slower release under the skin. And so you're still getting the same benefits, but it's just moving slower, which means it's going to be more gentle. Yeah, so. So I've never. Listen, I love a prescription retinol. I absolutely do. Or retinoid. I love that because I've seen what it can do for people with acne and acne scarring from working at the dermatologist. But for most people using one every day or something that's not gentle and peeling all the time, like, that's not fun. Like, you're just, you're missing all of your pretty days. So I'm kind of like. So I do like working with, with encapsulated retinol. So does it still have a bit.

[Shawnee Darden]

Of lactic acid in it?

[Guest]

I have. I haven't talked about that yet because I didn't want people to freak out. But it won't have lactic acid anymore.

[Carlene Higgins]

I was about to freak out on you.

[Guest]

Yes. Because it's going to stand alone. You know that people do not like it when you change your stuff.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes, girl, we do. I talked about your retinol in January. We did a whole episode about the best esthetician skincare. And what I said about yours was that it's like, like you wake up glowy and it doesn't irritate you, even.

[Shawnee Darden]

Though it's short term and the long term.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, you have retinol and the lactic acid in there. And tell us more about that.

[Guest]

Well, I put okay, two things. One, I put, I did put some other ingredients, like prickly pear extract that's really brightening. So it will give you that glow. Yes. Lactic acid in general gives you an immediate glow. And that's why people love mine so much because they're like, like they immediately think it worked in, in a day. I really wanted to separate them for many reasons. But the biggest is also because I already have, I have my lactic acid serum. So.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Might be a different way of educating people. Layering. And, and I love my lactic acid serum so much. So.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah, yeah, I love lactic acid serum.

[Guest]

It just was kind of like where it went and I didn't want to not have my lactic acid anymore.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Guest]

I tested this out for so long.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

So it's not like a completely different. To be honest, I don't think that people would notice just using it would, would notice the difference.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Guest]

It will be like over time.

[Shawnee Darden]

Right. So you're saying you can wear, you can use the retinol and the azelaic acid on the same night.

[Guest]

Yes. But you need to know your skin because although azelaic acid is so gentle.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yes.

[Guest]

For some people it could make them dry.

[Shawnee Darden]

Right.

[Guest]

But overall very easy to layer. It would be azelaic and then retinol. But like for somebody that you know is not has like normal skin that could catch up and all of a sudden they're very dry from that.

[Shawnee Darden]

Right. Or they, they like sting and bust their barrier.

[Guest]

Love to layer and do crazy stuff.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, 100%. What really is the difference between a prescription retinol and an. And something that you have on the shelf at Sephora.

[Guest]

So the difference is, is that a presc retinoid is going to work faster than the over the counter. It's going to work much faster. But what that means is that you are going to have downtime. You are going to be peeling and irritated and depending on the retinol your or retinoid, depending on it, you could end up breaking out. So I think it's great to use a prescription retinoid if you are struggling with acne or you're very oily, you have very oily skin. But for anyone else, I think maybe using one a couple times a week if you want to, along with an over the counter. But otherwise, to me it doesn't really make sense. Especially for people that have redness in their skin or they are getting a little older. I just find that they look even more red. So it's like finding that balance Like, I don't. I don't use a. I love Tazerac is one of my favorite prescriptions, prescription retinoids. And. And I'll use it, like, sometimes once a week. It's not. I just don't want to go. I want to be pretty. You know what I mean?

[Shawnee Darden]

I don't want to, like, the retinal.

[Guest]

Right. Like, go through all that redness. It's not fun. But I know that people are very stuck on that, for sure.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

I think you just get to a certain age, maybe you're like, I gotta ratchet it up.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

You know, like. Like the over counter is not cutting it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So what do you like about that specific retinoid that you're.

[Guest]

Tazer?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Guest]

So Tazerac, I'm pretty sure, still is the strongest prescription retinol that you can get. I'm pretty sure that that hasn't changed. What I love about it is that I worked on so many people with acne. It just can really clear your acne if you just hang on there. And most people with really bad acne don't end up needing Accutane or anything like that. So, yeah, it's pretty amazing. And over time, if you stick with your skin will get used to it, and you're still getting those same results, but without the dryness and irritation.

[Carlene Higgins]

So do you think it's a myth that retinoids make your skin thinner?

[Guest]

Yes. They actually boost collagen. So it actually makes your skin thicker.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Why do you think that myth persists?

[Guest]

Because of the thinness. So when you are using a prescription and I. When I worked on people at Dr. B's office, everyone was on some sort of retinoid. And the skin can tear so easily when you're working on them because they're so sensitive. And so I really think that that's why people came up with that. Like. Like, that their skin would just peel that. It's not that at all. It's just. It's so sensitive. You're using such a strong prescription.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right. So. But actually, over time, it's building the collagen. And therefore, you're your. If we're like beauty editors thinking of that skin graft 3D, it's actually the stratum corneum or whatever epidermis is getting.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Like a smidge thicker.

[Guest]

It's a. It's a good thing. And I. That's why I'm. I always say to people like, you don't need to go off that.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

If it's working for you.

[Shawnee Darden]

Now I want to ask you, because some brands you mentioned, there's so many with retinol, some brands have this like laddering system. Right. Where it's like you start low and then you work your way up. Is the idea you've chosen not to put the level of active in your retinol reform. So tell us about that.

[Guest]

I think I chose to. Not in the very beginning out of just like not really thinking it through, but in my new one. It will say it.

[Shawnee Darden]

Oh, it will.

[Guest]

And I do think that that's important for me. I think it's. Listen, a lot of people will say that you don't need to have that on there, but I just think that it's. It's important to be transparent.

[Shawnee Darden]

Right.

[Guest]

I really think that that's important. And I. The reason why you need to be transparent is because this goes with vitamin C and with retinol they degrade. And so if you're not being transparent, the people buying it don't really know.

[Shawnee Darden]

Right. Yeah. Right. So what is the level?

[Guest]

1%.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's 1%. I also find like people are just getting savvier and they are probably Googling that, that retinol 1% or whatever to like find one that they want to use, you know, well, people for.

[Guest]

I think people, for them, they think that it's important to know the strength. For me, it's important to know what's in there. Something that every brand says when they don't want to give up their percentage for whatever the reason, they'll say it's like a proprietary blend.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yep.

[Guest]

And that's. Yeah, you don't want to hear that because what does that mean? Like, I want to know. And I think, I think part of the reason why some people will say that it doesn't matter is because you can get a 1% retinol that can be very irritating and irritate your skin and then one that doesn't and it's what other ingredients you have in that formula. So I think it's to not scare people because I've used recently I.

[Shawnee Darden]

That's a good point.

[Guest]

All of the retinols at Sephora and I recently used one and it dried me out so bad and it was a 1%.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

So I think it just like depends sense.

[Shawnee Darden]

Right. And then of course there's all the different types of like retinaldehydes and all of that. So it's like you have to be a math friggin matician.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Shawnee Darden]

To be like 0.1 of this is equivalent to one of that.

[Guest]

I mean, it's very tricky and like I said, there's so many different over the counters. But I definitely would choose over the counter. Even though I love prescription.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah, I do.

[Guest]

And there's so many new, even newer prescriptions that I don't even know. Because when I started, I worked mostly with Retin. A Differin.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Which is now over the counter.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's crazy.

[Guest]

It is kind of crazy.

[Carlene Higgins]

I gave myself contact dermatitis with Differin.

[Guest]

Sure.

[Carlene Higgins]

Not long ago. I put it on here and I had a red neck up here was all red.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Shawnee Darden]

What's the percentage?

[Carlene Higgins]

I think it's 1%. It's adapalene gel.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Over the counter Target.

[Guest]

But I never loved it. But it's really great.

[Carlene Higgins]

It works.

[Guest]

Yeah. What's great about it is that it's so affordable. Yeah. For someone that needs. Can't go to a derm that you can say, yeah, it's just like very. It's very strong.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, it really is.

[Jill Dunn]

This episode is brought to you in part by Warby Parker. I've been wearing contact lenses for the better part of the 50 years that I've been on the planet. But lately I'm thinking it's time for me to be a glasses girl. You know, I've been seeing all these great people on Instagram my age who just look so cute in their glasses. I'm like, why am I sticking something on my eyeball every day? So I've been shopping around and let me tell you what I've found. Warby Parker. They use nothing but premium materials in every frame. Warby Parker designs every frame in house. And their collection includes silhouettes, colors and fits made to suit every face. And what's great is when you're shopping, they have eyeglasses, sunglasses, contact lenses, they do eye exams. You can shop with them online at home and in stores. They have 270 retail locations across the US and Canada where you can get styled by one of their friendly expert advisors. So it's really up to you whether you want to shop at home or in store. They offer it all, but the best part is the prices. Warby Parker glasses start at 95 and include prescription lenses with anti reflective scratch resistant coating. So you could build a whole wardrobe with different colors and shapes based on your outfit of the day. And many Warby Parker locations offer comprehensive eye exams starting at just $85. And you can add a pair and save 15 when you purchase two or more prescription pairs of glasses or Sunglasses, I mean, that's one of the conundrums I've always had is what do you do when you walk outside? You need prescription sunglasses, otherwise you can't drive. So it's great that they have this incentive. This offer is available both at home and in stores and there's free shipping and free 30 day routines. Warby Parker has over 270 locations to help you find your next pair of glasses. You can also head over to warbyparker.com beauty right now to try on any pair virtually. That's warparker.com beauty warbyparker.com beauty.

[Carlene Higgins]

You tried all the retinols at Sephora. Tell me what was yours?

[Guest]

No, no, no, no, I will not do that. But I have tried a lot of time. You know what? I should say that. And it's it. I was really impressed with using them. So many of them is that I was really impressed that I made such a good product because, yes, there's so many out there and I wasn't trying them for a while and I was kind of like, like, you know, like. But I really. It's a good, it's a good one. Especially for the percentage it is and what it does. It's a good one. But I've, I've found a lot of them pretty drying.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yes, for sure.

[Carlene Higgins]

So I'd like to ask you next about just getting on a routine. Like say somebody's listening and they're like, okay, fine, you've convinced me, I'm gonna do retinol. What adjustments do they have to make? Or like getting on a routine that kind of makes sense when you're introducing retinol.

[Guest]

So it depends on what type of retinol you're using. But if, no matter what, you always want to start with once a week and add a day each week. No matter if you've been using Tazerac. And then you start using mine.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, interesting.

[Guest]

Still, always do it because first of all, adding in a new active can always freak out your skin. But with retinol, you know, if you jump into any of them, you can get those little small, like, it's almost like a rash. And so you have to be careful. I always tell people that over and over again, this is how you have to do it. Now if you are using a prescription, a dermatologist would just have you jump in. My thing is, is I think jumping in is great if you can handle it. But usually, especially for a teen, they will start, they'll jump in and they'll break out. They'll get irritated and they'll stop using it. So I also think that you should start off slowly with a prescription and start with maybe two times a week and then build up slowly. Yeah, it's not going to work as fast, but you're going to get there as soon as you can get there.

[Carlene Higgins]

And what cleanser are you.

[Guest]

Are you using always a gentle cleanser? Always a gentle cleanser? Yeah. That's the best way always to introduce a retinol, for sure. And obviously there's the sandwich method or whatever it's called, where you can use a moisturizer before and then a moisturizer after. And Dr. Benitez used to do that all the time with prescription retinols.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And I mean, you can do it with over the counter. You're. You're just kind of of cutting the strain.

[Shawnee Darden]

Right, right, right. Are there any new rules of retinol these days?

[Guest]

You want to make sure if you're using a retinol around your eyes that you know that that formula has tested it. And you can listen, using a retinol around your eyes, always, you have to be careful because the area is so thin, the skin is so thin. But I formulated mine so that you can. But that doesn't mean everyone can.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right?

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

But using a prescription around your eyes, what would happen is you them out so badly that you would be so dry that you look like you have more wrinkles and then you would freak out.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah. I kind of like this idea of. Because when I've used retinol, like, I don't really do the sandwich where it's over moisturizer. It feels like a bit of overkill. But maybe with an eye cream, that could be a better idea versus just like putting it right around your eye, Maybe that.

[Guest]

Oh, to mix it. You want the, like, you want the retinol in the eye cream or no.

[Shawnee Darden]

Put it over top of the eye cream.

[Guest]

Yes, absolutely.

[Shawnee Darden]

Right.

[Guest]

Yeah. But you could. I mean, listen, I love my eye cream, but. And that's wonderful and I want everyone to do that. But you also could just put a moisturizer because you're getting the strength.

[Shawnee Darden]

Oh, yeah.

[Guest]

You know what I mean?

[Shawnee Darden]

Around your eye.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're, you're getting.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah, totally.

[Guest]

The strength of it, I mean, retinol is what's going to keep away the fine lines and wrinkles.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yes, definitely. Are there any considerations that somebody should make if they're either like, super fair on their. The Fitzpatrick scale or like a 5 or a 6 when it comes to the rules around retinol, I would just.

[Guest]

Say if you're really fair, you really need to be careful about being out in the sun. You always have to be careful about it. But like even more so if you're using a retinol and you go out in the sun the next day, even if you have sunscreen on, I think that that could be an issue.

[Shawnee Darden]

You could burn and is there a sunscreen that you're always recommending?

[Guest]

I always, I switch them up but I've always been like a super good scoop.

[Jill Dunn]

Really?

[Guest]

Yeah. Forever and ever. It's like my. It's what I use. Unless I'm using a tinted. Yeah, yeah.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay.

[Guest]

I also have a control correctives. They're much smaller brand but they have a oil free SPF that I really love for people with acne prone skin. But overall. Yeah, super good.

[Shawnee Darden]

All right. Super good.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. What? How do you know if you sort of like plateaued or will you all.

[Guest]

We're.

[Carlene Higgins]

If you get on this routine, your retinols, you're crushing it. It you get past the uglies, like does it your skin just always get better or is it kind of like plateauing?

[Guest]

So I think that your skin gets used to it, but I don't think it means that it's not working anymore. Your skin has just gotten used to. I've been using my retinol forever and I've never, I mean I try other ones but I'm still getting great results using mine. So yeah, I don't think that. I think that people think that and I think they're like, oh, now I've got to go stronger. But, but you can always try and add another one in to see if the results are better for you. But it's not necessarily not working.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Do you have any real world examples? Because you're seeing skin all the time of someone who has been using retinol like since 25 and now they're like 45. And is there. Is their skin that much better than somebody who has never touched it?

[Guest]

So that's why I fell in love with retinols is because I, when I worked for the derm.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Guest]

There were two estheticians there and one esthetician I had. Had. I mean she had to be, I don't even know, maybe 60s. But I just. She had the most perfect skin ever. But her neck she had forgotten to use. Like you could see her age. And I just died over her. Like her skin was just like flawless, like uniform flawless. She was like, I'VE been using retinol since I was in my 20s.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

So I think it's just. It makes such a difference that. And staying out of the sun. Really.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah. And our necks are more sensitive. Right. So. Yes. Is there a special. What's the rule for that?

[Guest]

I would just use it less often or. That's where I would use a moisturizer before. Because it really does catch up to you all of a sudden. And then your. Your. Your neck is very red and very irritated.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah. Is there an ideal type of moisturizer that's like, not too thick, kind of jives?

[Guest]

Well, I mean, I would say mine.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Because it's oil free, but just nothing. You don't need anything too heavy because remember, it's basically diluting the retinol. Yeah. It's like putting a buffer.

[Shawnee Darden]

So oil free is.

[Guest]

I would. I would use a light moisturizer.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay.

[Guest]

To start.

[Shawnee Darden]

Great. Like a lotion.

[Guest]

Maybe if you were using a really thick moisturizer. I mean, might as well. Yeah. Not use the retinol.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And when are you using this? Nighttime.

[Guest]

Nighttime. Nighttime only. Yeah, always.

[Shawnee Darden]

It's interesting.

[Jill Dunn]

I started to hear.

[Shawnee Darden]

Because we know your skin gets sensitive, but have you heard that. That some, like, people are starting to say it's actually a myth and you can use retinol during the day.

[Guest]

It's the dumbest thing ever. There's no part of that that makes any sense. And you. You should test it out because I've seen it. I've seen people. Thanks.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm good.

[Shawnee Darden]

You. You.

[Guest]

I've seen. My husband's done it before. I had given him. He's very fair. And I had. I told him he needed to start using retinol and went out the next day without sunscreen because he for sure doesn't wear it. And his skin. I've seen it so many times. It just looked like it. Broken capillaries. Wow. Yeah. No. I don't even know why people. What. Who said that. And I feel like it's some doctors I've read.

[Shawnee Darden]

I. I do think that there's some. They're. They're trying to reference some. I don't have it at the tip of my tongue, but they're trying to reference, like, some kind of studies where they're like.

[Guest]

It's actually, I think they just needed something to talk about on Tik Tok.

[Shawnee Darden]

I don't know. Potentially. Okay. One more question for you about aging in reverse. What are a few of the crucial forever 50 items in. On your top shelf. Some of Your products that are essential and then some other ones too.

[Guest]

So mine, I can't live without my retinol or a triple acid signature peel. And those I, I, those are must haves. And then I would say still my favorite vitamin C is pro heal by is clinical. It's a 15%. I like, I like a nice 15%.

[Shawnee Darden]

Okay.

[Guest]

I think it's really great. There's so many different, different vitamin Cs now. But this is, I always go back to it.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Those tried and true ones.

[Guest]

Yeah. Right. It really is so good. I would say those are all the things that I need to be young other than all the other things that I've injected and told you about.

[Shawnee Darden]

One thing we get asked about a lot and you may have an answer, you may not. But the, the red light therapy. So you're for that. The red led. You just have to at home we.

[Guest]

Have to do it consistency.

[Carlene Higgins]

You have like the Rolls Royce at your office. I remember first time I saw it in person, it's like $2,000, guys.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah. So this is another one of those things that people are saying are like, it's funny. I was just gonna say to you that we've been, we've been beauty editors for like 20 years. And like from day one when I started writing about beauty, it was like retinol, vitamin C, retinol, vitamin C, spf. Like that's all you really need.

[Guest]

Right.

[Shawnee Darden]

All the that's come out in the 20 years since, like they're nice to have.

[Guest]

Right?

[Shawnee Darden]

They're nice to haves. But those are the things that are like the true keep you young. Right. But more and more people are trying to convince me that red light therapy LED is like the, the other thing it is. Do you think it's that?

[Guest]

I think it's that and I think you have to have, it has to be to a certain strength for it to work. And the more lights that you have, the better. But I think, think for me, and this is tricky. I think it's so important that it's FDA cleared only so that you know that it actually has those claims. Like I use light stem at the office. They also have a handheld as well. They were one of the first to get FDA cleared and like then the one that I collabed on, which is desi, even though I say it wrong, but I, you know, they also are, are we're FDA cleared and went through like, I think you just gross. You have to, you have to know that I think that that's important anyways.

[Shawnee Darden]

Otherwise there's so many you can get.

[Guest]

On Amazon and you just have no idea.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And I think it. It's like any routine or anything that it's consistency. You do it every day. For sure.

[Guest]

It'll work for you for sure.

[Shawnee Darden]

If you don't, it's definitely not an overnight. You will see nothing.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

I will say though, when we're talking about other ingredients and I know we talk kind of ad nauseam Carlene about exosomes, but when I did get the contact dermatitis from different. I did use the plated serum and it so funny. It pretty much disappeared over.

[Guest]

I know. That's what I've heard. I have been on every. I have to tell you as far as exosomes go. I'm so into it. I've actually had. I had them injected under my eyes. I just need to know more about. I need to understand more about it. In skincare products.

[Shawnee Darden]

Yes.

[Guest]

I don't. I still. As much as I've talked to them, I literally after every conversation I say I don't. I don't get how that you can't have it like it's such a big deal when you get them injected here where they can't actually say. I think they can't say exosomes. Right. They say some other. So it's like I don't understand.

[Carlene Higgins]

California is its own beast.

[Guest]

Right. So I think it's. I'm still. I'm not there yet. But I will tell you that plated serum is a miracle. I have a friend that just had a facelift and she said I can't even tell you how fast it healed because I was doing red light light and plated.

[Shawnee Darden]

By the way, we. We did interview one of the.

[Carlene Higgins]

We interviewed like I. I believe the CEO.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Shawnee Darden]

So actually you can listen to that if you want.

[Guest]

I'm gonna listen to.

[Shawnee Darden]

But I still couldn't explain it to.

[Guest]

You in a nutshell.

[Carlene Higgins]

They are human derived. But it is. It's. No humans were harmed in the process.

[Shawnee Darden]

And then they tell you that's they get it from the bank. I mean, but back in the day, like Bish man, like, you know, like the, the goat placenta and all that stuff. It's like. But that works.

[Guest]

But it's weird. No, no, I get it. It does work. It's going to keep us young. I mean, vampire us.

[Carlene Higgins]

This is. Yeah. The 50. The. The tuneup, you know. This is the tuneup Exactly. And 10 years of your products. That's so exciting. We got the sneak peek. I love it. Thank you Shie for coming.

[Guest]

Thank you for having me. I really wanted to come back.

[Carlene Higgins]

This is so fun. You always too much to talk about.

[Jill Dunn]

Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog@breaking beautypodcast.com.

[Carlene Higgins]

While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a.

[Shawnee Darden]

Single thing and get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode.

[Jill Dunn]

You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast Podcast and did you.

[Carlene Higgins]

Know we also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.

[Jill Dunn]

You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302. And don't forget to subscribe to us.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wherever you get your podcast fix Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.

[Jill Dunn]

See you next Wednesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.