The “Quiet Luxury” Facialist’s Skin Bible: A Face Oil Reset For Acne, “Burgundy” LED Face Masks and is Salicylic Acid “Out”?

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast: “The Quiet Luxury Facialist’s Skin Bible: A Face Oil Reset For Acne, ‘Burgundy’ LED Face Masks, and is Salicylic Acid ‘Out’?”

Date: March 11, 2026
Hosts: Jill Dunn & Carlene Higgins
Guest: Athena Hewitt, Master Esthetician and Founder of Monastery

---

Overview

In this episode, Jill and Carlene sit down with Athena Hewitt—celebrity facialist, founder of cult-favorite botanical skincare line Monastery, and the master behind the “quiet luxury” skin philosophy trusted by icons such as Sofia Coppola, Greta Lee, and Chloe Sevigny. The conversation dives deep into Athena’s unconventional, ingredient-driven approach, why she thinks salicylic acid is “out,” her radical all-oil methods for treating acne-prone skin, and the science behind her exclusive, nearly “burgundy” LED light mask. Listeners are treated to Athena’s no-no ingredient list, her unique red carpet skin-prep, and an exclusive on Monastery’s next big skincare innovation.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Athena’s “Quiet Luxury” Philosophy in Skincare

• Celebrity Endorsement & Cult Status:
  • Monastery is beloved by fashion insiders and indie film icons like Sofia Coppola, Greta Lee, Kirsten Dunst, and Chloe Sevigny.
    • “I wanted to give a facial to [Chloe] forever. She was definitely on my, like, mood board.” (Athena, 08:52)
• Definition of Quiet Luxury:
  • Athena describes her line as “quiet luxury”—small-batch, handcrafted, with personally sourced botanicals.
    • “All of our ingredients are the absolute highest quality...I don’t think it’s humanly possible for other companies to be sourcing things the way that we do.” (Athena, 09:22)
• Craftsmanship Over Mass Production:
  • Monastery products are formulated and bottled by Athena and her husband in their San Francisco lab, giving them nimbleness and artisanal quality.

---

Red Carpet vs. Runway: Prepping Skin for High Fashion ([11:14–13:43])

• Red Carpet:
  • Focus on lifting, sculpting, lymphatic drainage, and microcurrent devices for instant “snatching.”
    • “Red carpet, I’m thinking about lifting a lot.” (Athena, 13:34)
    • “You have to drain before you lift. You want less weight there to lift.” (Athena, 14:41)
• Runway:
  • Prep depends on makeup artist’s direction—sometimes matte, sometimes glowy. The “Kate Girl” look for Spring 2026 was all about dew and radiance with hydrating botanicals, layered oils, and a finishing balm.
    • “They wanted full glowy dewy. We sprayed everyone down with the Coppola mist, went in with aloe, hyaluronic, then the Flora, and topped it off with Attar to hold all the glow.” (Athena, 12:52)

---

The “Oil-Only” Approach for Acne: Myth-Busting & Protocol ([20:00–25:53])

• Athena’s Personal Acne Story:
  • Developed Stage 3 cystic acne after years in medical spas; healed her skin with a simple, large-molecule rose cleansing oil—no surfactants, no actives, just oil and a cloth.
    • “Formulated this to be a large molecule...It’s equivalent to doing absolutely nothing.” (Athena, 20:51)
    • “When you leave your skin with nothing on...your good bacteria starts to flourish, things start to become balanced.” (Athena, 21:10)
• The “Rose Reset” Protocol:
  • Two-week minimalism: just rose cleansing oil, no actives or other products.
    • “It’s literally like doing kind of nothing to your skin, letting everything reset. Then we want to see their skin again after two weeks.” (Athena, 23:50)
  • Most clients see less redness, less inflammation—“almost 100%, really improved.” (25:03)
• Reintroduction:
  • Next, a light layer of “Gold” oil, rich in raspberry seed and novel gaminic (with an X) acid from sandalwood nuts—anti-inflammatory and more effective than bakuchiol.
    • “It’s the only plant in the plant kingdom that contains this super anti-inflammatory omega.” (Athena, 26:10)

---

Athena’s Extraction Technique ([32:23–33:44])

• Noted as “different” by trainees; relies on bone as leverage, not finger pressure.
  • “I lean on the bones of the face...that way you’re not putting too much pressure around the actual pimple.” (Athena, 32:36)
  • Uses a special needle to open extractions, minimizing trauma.

---

The Monastery “No-No List”: Surprising Ingredients to Avoid ([33:44–41:07])

Key Ingredients Athena Excludes (with reasons):

• Salicylic Acid:

  • “It closes [the pore], so then your bacteria is trapped underneath...you’re gonna have pigmentation for possibly up to a year. I’ve never seen it really work on anyone.” (Athena, 34:20-34:50)
  • Only exception: “If it is your wedding day and you really want to flatten something...but maybe you’re okay with that hyperpigmentation later.” (36:11)

• Petroleum/Petrolatum:

  • Environmental concerns, clogging potential.

• Shea Butter & Coconut Oil:

  • “Really comedogenic...an inexpensive, easily accessible product that really just doesn’t contain any nutrients.” (Athena, 38:44)

• Tea Tree, Cinnamon Oil:

  • Both can be irritating, too “sharp” or sensitizing.

• No Squalene (from sharks), but Squalane is fine.

• Philosophy:

  • “My philosophy is like, relax and open, not close...oil flows with more oil.” (Athena, 35:59, 36:49)

---

No-Water Cleansing, Microbiome Care ([45:23–47:25])

• For healing, Athena recommends no water (especially tap water), just oil and a soft cloth, to minimize irritation and microbiome disruption.
  • “When I was going through my healing stages...I wasn’t using water on my face at all.” (Athena, 45:38)
• Distilled water or micellar (for conditions like rosacea) are alternatives.

---

The Burgundy LED Light Mask: “Healing, Not Just Blue for Acne” ([48:53–53:11])

• Device Genesis:
  • Developed with a Palo Alto innovator, shifts from standard orange-red to deep burgundy for maximum skin saturation.
    • “All of them are using the orange-to-red scale...we started testing [the deeper diode] in our spa for years, seeing great results.” (Athena, 49:34)
• Results:
  • Clients show “lower pigmentation, the texture is different, literally looks like they’ve gotten a Fraxel.” (Athena, 51:58)
• No Blue Light:
  • “Burgundy is proven to be the most healing. What you’re trying to get out of blue is healing anyways...if you have a color that is the most healing, maybe you should just stick with that.” (Athena, 52:47)
  • Safe for all skin types, even teens with acne.

---

New Ingredient Reveal: TAGUA ([54:03–55:12])

• Athena’s next Monastery launch is a hydration product using tagua, a hard nut from Ecuador, typically used as natural ivory.
  • “It creates hydration while creating also a web. It could be a standalone because it really just creates this barrier.” (Athena, 54:03)
  • “When you take it down to a nano level, it creates a web that’s still breathable but can hold things in.” (Athena, 54:23–54:38)
  • “Its moisture holding ability is that strong that it holds up next to a raspberry seed oil.” (Athena, 55:00)

---

Botanical Heritage & Skincare Roots ([55:48])

• Athena describes deep family inspiration from Greece, her childhood making tinctures, and shares a longing to work with “mastic gum,” a rare healing resin from a Greek island.

---

Memorable Quotes

• On Quiet Luxury:
  • “If it’s quiet luxury, I think the products stand for themselves.” (Athena, 09:22)
• On Healing Acne with Oil:
  • “When you leave your skin with nothing on...your good bacteria starts to flourish...things just calm down.” (Athena, 21:10)
• On Salicylic Acid:
  • “It closes...[and] you’re gonna have pigmentation for possibly up to a year. I’ve never seen it really work on anyone, honestly.” (Athena, 34:20)
• On Oil-Based Philosophy:
  • “Oil flows with more oil.” (Athena, 36:49)
• On Burgundy Light:
  • “Our burgundy is proven to be the most healing...if you have a color that is the most healing, maybe you should just stick with that.” (Athena, 52:47)
• On Small-Batch Sourcing:
  • “If there’s an ingredient that we’re not loving in the moment, we can shift over to another one and find a better source because things change from season to season.” (Athena, 09:22)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Quiet Luxury Philosophy/Cult Clients: 07:13–10:21
• Runway/Red Carpet Skin Prep: 11:14–14:44
• Healing Acne with Oil, “Rose Reset”: 20:00–25:53
• Extraction Technique: 32:23–33:44
• Athena’s No-No List Rapid Fire: 33:44–41:07
• No-Water/Microbiome Cleansing: 45:23–47:25
• Burgundy Light Device: 48:53–53:11
• Tagua/Next Wave Skincare Launch: 54:03–55:12

---

Conclusion

This conversation offers a masterclass in minimalist, mindful skincare and challenges conventional wisdom—especially about oils and acids for acne. Athena Hewitt’s ethos is a call to “simplify, listen, and respect the skin’s natural rhythms.” For those skeptical about oil or jaded by product overload, her “quiet luxury” might just be the reset you never knew you needed.

---

For more product details and exclusive Athena-approved picks, visit breakingbeautypodcast.com.

Transcript

[Jill Dunn]

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome to Breaking Beauty, the podcast all about the breakthrough people, products, and moments in beauty. We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins. Welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast. The podcast all about the breakthrough people, products, and moments in beauty. I'm Carlene, this is Jill, and we are just days away from spring. We're almost at the finish line.

[Carlene Higgins]

Couldn't be happier, honestly. I did sneak away to Palm Springs for a few days, so I felt like that was my little hiatus getting to the desert. It really did energize me to get through the rest of the winter. So I'm sorry you couldn't join me, but next time.

[Jill Dunn]

That's okay. We are. We're gonna be taken away a little bit in today's episode. There's like a little bit of a, I don't know, dreamy travel quality to it, I would say.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's true.

[Athena Hewitt]

That's true.

[Carlene Higgins]

And of course, we are here in your feeds on this fine Wednesday, like, we are every single week chatting with the elite talents of the beauty world. Everyone from makeup by Mario to Bobbi Brown, Gloria George. And today we are joined by a very exciting skin expert. It's Athena Hewitt, and she is a master esthetician with more than 20 years of experience working on people's faces. And she's the founder of the cult favorite skincare brand called Monastery.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes. And Athena was on my radar. What I noticed about Athena is her celebrity roster. They are like the ultimate cool girls of my day. I'm talking about Sophia Coppola, Chloe seven, Greta Lee. She is trusted by this inner circle, and she's so trusted, in fact, that she actually collaborated with Sophia Coppola on a custom product for the Coppola families hideaway resorts. Those, if you want to check them out on their website, they just look so dreamy and like a set from a movie. And just this past year, Athena was named the inaugural artist in residency at the iconic Hotel Chelsea in New York. She is just ultimate cool girl.

[Carlene Higgins]

One of my favorite places. She's like the if you know, you know, facialist. And what makes her really unique is in this industry is that she's not just a face behind a brand. She owns her own lab in San Francisco where she. She dabbles and creates. And she and her husband, they personally source, formulate, and hand bottle the product line using botanicals. And it's a process that feels more like an alchemy versus the modern big box kind of skincare industry that we think of. She's really just bringing that craftsmanship, I would say, to skincare.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Think about, like, jasmine and rose oils. It's very, like, sensual and aromatic and. And this is really quiet luxury at its finest. Athena is often tapped to prep models for the Kate Runway at New York Fashion Week. She sets up a pop up at Paris Fashion Week for the fashion set there. And in today's episode, we really are getting into the why behind her unique methods.

[Carlene Higgins]

She has some juicy takes, I would say, from an esthetician. I would say some that we've never heard before. She has a no no list that includes salicylic acid and a no water cleans method. And she kind of has this quiet confidence about her where you're like, okay, I. It sounds a little out there. I was sitting there going, you want me to put only oil on my face? You know what I mean?

[Jill Dunn]

I know for someone with acne skin, you're like, what?

[Carlene Higgins]

I was like combusting on the couch. But at the same time, I was trusting what she was saying, you know?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, absolutely. You guys have to hear it. Hear her philosophy for yourself. She explains that skincare no no list that we talked about, and Athena breaks down her burgundy light therapy philosophy. It's almost burgundy. That's how dark red it is. And why she believes you don't actually need blue light to treat acneic skin.

[Carlene Higgins]

We sat down in studio with Athena. So this episode is published on our YouTube channel. And I always find it fascinating when we speak to experts because they are, like, gesturing and showing what they're doing. So I encourage you to watch on our YouTube feed and everything that Athena talks about, we will link to her product recommendations, our website, which is Breaking Beauty podcast. So welcome, Athena Hewitt.

[Athena Hewitt]

If you've ever been laying awake at three in the morning replaying something you

[Jill Dunn]

said literally months ago, this show is for you.

[Athena Hewitt]

I'm Kyla, the host of Don't Think, a podcast that will not fix you, but it will make you laugh, make you feel seen, and hopefully give you

[Jill Dunn]

a break from the chaos of your own brain.

[Athena Hewitt]

New episodes every Thursday. This is Don't Think A break for your brain.

[Carlene Higgins]

Jones Road Beauty is supporting our show this week. If you're a fan of no makeup, makeup that's clean, that never looks caked on, you're gonna love Jones Road Beauty. And I personally love Jones Road Beau because of the person behind it, and that is none other than the iconic makeup artist Bobbi Brown herself. She has been on our show a couple of times. Yes, that is a Flex. But Bobbi is really known for these amazing makeup looks that look like you, but better. And she has really put that DNA into Jones Road Beauty. Their iconic products include the miracle bomb, which you can wear on your eyes, your lips, your cheeks. It's really a do it all product that just makes you look glowy and gorgeous. Also the face pe. So many makeup artists have recommended that on our show because it's really a do it all. It conceals, but it's virtually undetectable on the skin. You look like you have nothing on. It's so beautiful. And the hits keep on coming from Jones Road Beauty. They just launched an eyeshadow stick, which is creamy high pigment. It is designed to swipe on and blend with fingers. No brush, no fallout, no fuss. And they have eight universal matte neutral shades, which I really like a beautiful matte on the eye. And Jones Road Beauty, they're really all about modern day makeup that's clean, strategic and multifunctional for effortless routines. For a limited time, our listeners are getting a free shimmer face oil on their first purchase. When they use Code Beauty at checkout, just head to jonesroadbeauty.com that's spelled j o n e s r o a dash d beauty.com and use code Beauty at checkout. After you purchase, they will ask where you heard about that and please support our show, Breaking Beauty and tell them our show sent you. We'll link to this over in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Jill Dunn]

Hi, Athena. Welcome to Breaking Beauty Podcast. We're so excited to have you here.

[Athena Hewitt]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, I. I was reading about you recently in Vogue Business and it said that you were building a cool girl brand. And I was like, I was following you already. And just from the clients that you have, like Sofia Coppola and Kirsten Dunst and Greta Lee, Chloe Sevigny, I was like, absolutely. This is like a cool girl cult brand. So how did you start kind of running in these particular circles?

[Athena Hewitt]

Oh, my gosh. Maybe my publicist is the cool girl

[Jill Dunn]

shout out to Caroline in the room.

[Athena Hewitt]

You know, it initially started with Sophia. She has. She grew up in the Bay Area and spends a lot of time in San Francisco. She heard about the brand maybe through Caroline, maybe through a few of her friends. I think I'd given a few of her friends facials.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, yeah. She wanted to come into our spa and the first time I ever saw saw her was actually her birthday.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, wow.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. Super fun. And of course, she and introduced me to Kirsten. Greta. Greta just really needed a facial during Venice Film Festival. And, you know, I think in a way, I was one of the. There just. I was one of the only, like, SDS out there giving facials. Oh, that was just pure luck. But she had also tried the brand and is very into natural skincare, so I felt like I write a perfect fit.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Athena Hewitt]

Chloe, I wanted to give a facial to forever. She was definitely, like, on my, like, mood board, if you will.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like this is Gen X to Gen X talk right here. These, like, all these women were just so, like.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So good. Athena, so you've earned the title of quiet luxury facialist. So chic.

[Athena Hewitt]

Have I? That's so cool. I didn't really know that you have.

[Carlene Higgins]

What does a quiet luxury skincare routine mean? Mean.

[Jill Dunn]

What does it look like?

[Athena Hewitt]

All of our ingredients are the absolute highest quality. There is no doubt about that. And maybe we don't talk about that even as much as we should. If it's quiet luxury, I think the products stand for themselves. And my team is always telling me to talk about all the amazing things that our ingredients do. And I sort of have this idea like, oh, well, don't people just know the way we source things is because we're so small, small batch, and making everything in our own lab. I don't think it's humanly possible for other companies to be sourcing things in the way that we do. And we're really nimble. So we can. We can get. If there's an ingredient that we're not loving in the moment, we can shift over to another one and find a better source because things change from season to season.

[Jill Dunn]

I feel like that is the epitome of luxury, though, when you really think about even luxury labels like Hermes, it's handcrafted and they're not, especially with a brand like yours. I only discovered your brand in the last couple of years, but it's been around for 15 years. Right. Monastery or when did you start?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, I think so. The brand that you see today was started in 2018. Okay. I've been working on the products for a very, very long time and sharing them with my clientele.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Athena Hewitt]

So, yeah, that is a. It's a hard question for me to answer. I don't remember exactly when that was, but 15 sounds about right.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And I know that you were involved with Fashion Week recently. Right. Had you ever had that on your vision board to be Doing skin for a Runway show like Kate.

[Athena Hewitt]

No, that wasn't something that we planned. They approached us, and it seemed like, oh, very cool. Seemed like a great idea. And then I think that just opened our eyes to that world. I'm an esthetician. I'm a service provider, like the hairstylist and, like, the makeup artist. So it's really fun to go into that world too, and just feel like, oh, I'm with my comrades here.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, yeah. And work on a team almost. And that leads to our next question, because I'm sure you do red carpet prep as well for a lot of celebrities. So what's the difference between how you prep skin for red carpet versus kind of a quiet luxury brand like Kate? Like, what does the Kate girl's skin look like? What do you do differently?

[Athena Hewitt]

The first time I did the show wanted a matte. Well, not. You know, Diane was instructed to do a matte look for a finish. And I. And I was kind of like, oh, how are we gonna do this?

[Jill Dunn]

That's Diane Kendall, the makeup artist, right? Yes.

[Athena Hewitt]

So we were leaning more towards our hyaluronic and a little bit of aloe, but just making it. Making sure that there, you know, wasn't gonna have that. We weren't gonna have this, like, glow underneath her makeup a bit. So I was really pleased that on the last one we were able to do, they wanted full glowy dewy. Yeah, yeah. So we just, like, figured out in the makeup test prior, like, how matte or what?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Athena Hewitt]

What's the look for this show?

[Jill Dunn]

So they went glowy for spring. The Kate girl is glowy for spring. Is that right?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Like full glow or. What did you do?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, we. I started with the. Sprayed everyone down with the coppola mist, went in with the aloe hyaluronic, then the flora, and topped it off with a tar to just kind of, like, hold in all the glow.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, that's the concentrate, which is like a balm. Right. Now, was Diane able to put makeup on top of that? Because that's quite a oil base. Interesting.

[Carlene Higgins]

And what would you say, though, is the main difference between the red carpet prep and the Runway show? I know you're obviously designing a look, so to speak, for each one, but it's like, what are you thinking about when you're doing red carpet prep? Are you doing that the day before?

[Athena Hewitt]

No. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

No.

[Athena Hewitt]

And they're totally different red carpet. I'm thinking about lifting a lot.

[Carlene Higgins]

Snatching.

[Athena Hewitt]

Snatching. What is going to look good for the next two hours? And of course, you want the glow, but it really is a lot about let's get everything sculpting.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. And you can do that. You can. You can sculpt. So what are a couple of the key red carpet maneuvers that you do to lift and sculpt?

[Athena Hewitt]

I mean, I spend a lot of time with the microcurrent, but I also start with a lot of lymphatic drainage. And it's really amazing how much you can act. The skin will depuff right before your eyes, so making sure you get rid of the lymph first is key.

[Carlene Higgins]

And you're just using your hands for that or just the nanocurrent device or

[Athena Hewitt]

are you using your hands? Just my hands A lot, yes. Starting here, which is the chest. Working on the. Yeah, yeah. Parasympathetic. And just really opening up the neck so that things can drain through. I actually think sometimes that that's more effective than the microcurrent. So, yes, you definitely have to drain before you. You lift. You don't want to be. You want less weight there to lift.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, good point.

[Jill Dunn]

Now, speaking of quiet luxury, it was kind of surprising to see, quite honestly, Sofia Coppola's name on a product for your collaboration, because she herself is like a typical Gen Xer where it's like, she is so cool, but there's this illusion of not trying and not being loud about it. So to see her name on this product was quite something. How did that come about?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, well, it's her last name, not her full name. Coppola Hideaways. She really loved the way I gave a facial, and she mentioned that she would like to see the properties give facials in the same way that I do. And so she asked me if I would come and train them. And of course, I said yes. We just really have the same sort of taste and we just really like a lot of the same scent profiles. And she is an absolute skin care junkie. I went and trained them, and then it kind of seemed like it might be a good idea to. For Monastery to help promote the hideaways in a way. And then she really loved that we were a mom and pop brand, so to speak. I mean, it really is just me and my. Not just me and my husband, but we are the brand. And she really loved that and said that that's how they've always done everything, that it's all about their family and friends and my.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, family. That makes sense.

[Carlene Higgins]

The familiar. But. And just to clarify, these are called the hideaways and there's multiple.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So these are the ultimate quiet luxury destination. Everybody. Which one is the best one?

[Athena Hewitt]

I like Blancano.

[Carlene Higgins]

Where's that?

[Athena Hewitt]

That is in Belize, but it's the one in the forest. And I think I. I just really got the Apocalypse now vibes when I was there. I remember one night I was like, looking up at the ceiling and the. And the like. And I was like. I feel like this scene was like in the movie. You just really get. You get the vibe. It feels super special and off the grid.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Amazing. I want to visit the one in Italy, too. That's like the family, you know, that has that.

[Athena Hewitt]

I have yet to go to that one.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay, well, group trip. Let's do it. We've talked about your brand Monastery a little bit, and having an esthetician who has a brand is not that uncommon. But as you're saying, the way that you do it, like, having your own lab, I would say is uncommon. Also, handcrafting and not just sending it to a manufacturer is uncommon. And also when I read about just the way that you create, let's say, the first product, I believe it was your first product, the Monastery Attar facial repair concentrate. And I was reading about infusions and extractions and how hot and cold are so fundamental. It reminded me of something from a bygone era. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about just how you create what it takes to get it from onto the shelf.

[Athena Hewitt]

The rose cleansing oil was actually the first one that I made, not the Attar. The Attar came about because we were working with that farmer, and he said, I have this incredible byproduct from all the rose oil that I'm supplying you with. And this is essential oil free, but it is still this beautiful wax that smells of flower, that smells of roses, but doesn't contain the, like, terpenes. That was actually how that one came about. So it was a little bit later, but I first. I had taken several perfumery courses. I did an extended aesthetic program when I was 19 years old and wrote a thesis on essential oils and their effects on the skin and mind. I've always been into it. I've been making tinctures and products with my mom since childhood and also with my AI in Greece. It's just something that's been part of normal daily life in my family, and I didn't really think much of it. I found myself going into aesthetics, maybe because it was sort of adjacent to that world, but I went into initially the med spa world and Got into that for nearly 10 years and sort of like lost my way, if you will. Developed acne and then made a cleansing oil for myself, a large molecule cleansing oil, so that I could mimic not doing anything on my skin. Because after a recent trip to Asia, I had found that it was. My skin was at its best when nothing was on it. I was known for acne at that spa, and so I started just sampling out my own little formulas to my clients. And before you know it, I mean, the owner of that spa was really. She was really great, and she said, I think it's your time. You gotta. You gotta go out and do this on your own.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Athena Hewitt]

And I did a lot of the first facials as only oil and really just focused on my technique a lot, you know, And I think that that was. I didn't have this big back bar line of products to pull from, and I didn't have all these different textures or ingredients. So it really was like, what can I do with so little with the skin? And you can do a lot.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, yeah. Can I ask you what stage three acne is?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, I had. It's cystic.

[Jill Dunn]

I don't think most people would think that using a cleansing oil, a rose oil, would be, you know, revolutionary and the answer to fixing acne. So maybe you could tell us a bit more about that.

[Athena Hewitt]

So I formulated this one, like I said, to be a large molecule. So it really is too large to penetrate the skin, so you just really wipe it off. So it's equivalent to doing absolutely nothing. I was wearing a sunblock only at that point, and that's why I made it. I wanted something to be strong enough to pull the sunblock off but not do anything to my skin. So when you. When you leave your skin with nothing on the top, your good bacteria starts to flourish, things start to become balanced, your PH starts to sit at the PH that it wants to sit at, and things just calm down.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Is it like jojoba oil or. What's a large molecule oil?

[Athena Hewitt]

Castor was the large molecule oil that I used to attract the other oils.

[Carlene Higgins]

I see.

[Athena Hewitt]

So as long as you have one large molecule, anything, because oil is attracted to oil, they will then absorb into the large molecule and become that molecule size.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

But until this point, like this is. This is all your own practical knowledge from your experience in the spa that you're then bringing to the lab. It's not like you went to a cosmetic chemistry course.

[Athena Hewitt]

I did a crash course.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, you did. Okay, Understood. Yeah.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Athena Hewitt]

Very Cool.

[Jill Dunn]

I've tried the rose face oil and it's quite unique because it really is, I don't want to say just a face oil, but it really is a face oil. Like it's not lathering and it feels identical to the other oil, which name escapes me now.

[Athena Hewitt]

Gold.

[Jill Dunn]

It feels quite similar to the gold oil which you're meant to use in a totally different capacity. There's not that much difference between them, which I think is unusual for a cleanser. Like an oil based cleanser still has like a different consistency. Usually it kind of gets a bit milky and it washes away. I don't know, I just feel like this one's very. I was expecting it to do something different as opposed to. And then you just wipe it off. You don't use water. Right.

[Athena Hewitt]

You can use a damp cloth, but no water and oil repel. So if you were to just like put water on your face with the oil, that wouldn't work in removing the oil. But so you have to remember like what is that ingredient that makes it foam? Those were ingredients that I found their surfactants. I found that I, I was sensitive to them. And if I was sensitive to them, it's possible that a lot of other people who are dealing with acne are sensitive to them.

[Jill Dunn]

Right. Are there other. So now when you see a client and they come in to your spa in San Francisco and if they are acne prone, so I'm guessing you would put them on the rose oil cleanser. Are there other oil based ingredients that you recommend even though they're acne prone or do they have pushback? What it, what, how is this evolved?

[Athena Hewitt]

That's a great question. So we actually put them on something called the rose reset.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

And for two weeks we want them to use nothing but the rose cleansing oil at night, they can use it again in the morning. But the idea behind this is it's literally like doing kind of nothing to your skin, letting everything reset. And then we want to see their skin again after two weeks because then we can assess it. You know, when they came in they were doing all of these things, right. And we weren't exact. It's hard to assess the skin when you're looking at ingredients that are topically changing it.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Athena Hewitt]

So we want to see it at

[Jill Dunn]

its like with no actives. Like what does it look like with no actives?

[Athena Hewitt]

What does it look like in its natural state?

[Jill Dunn]

So it's a reset. And do you feel like with that reset it's about rebalancing the microbiome or getting the skin barrier back intact or like what, what is sort of.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Or I guess a lot of it is just getting rid of the actives too.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, absolutely. Both of those things. The microbiome. Yep. And making sure that it's stable.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. And then after you get the reset, what's. What do you do next? So, and what's your experience? Do most people come in and their skin's like less red, less inflamed?

[Athena Hewitt]

Almost 100%, yeah. Really improved. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Athena Hewitt]

Much less inflammation. Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

What do you recommend from there? What's the protocol?

[Athena Hewitt]

If usually we put them on just a light layer of the gold during the day, which is an oil, a light pressing of gold, and then that's the next step for two weeks.

[Jill Dunn]

They must be shocked that you're recommending more oil for their face. Am I right?

[Athena Hewitt]

I think they are. But so many times that you see someone with acne, they have like really tried everything.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Athena Hewitt]

And they're sort of often at this desperate point and so they're sort of, they're excited to try something that they haven't tried.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Athena Hewitt]

And then it works so quickly that

[Jill Dunn]

they stick to it.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

What's in the gold oil? Just briefly, like what's the magic? What's the gold touch?

[Athena Hewitt]

So there's something in it called gaminic acid. I don't believe there's any other product on the market that contains this acid.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

And that's not an active acid, that's an omega acid.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

It's really hard to source. We get it from Australia and it comes from the sandalwood nut, not to be confused with sandalwood nut or sandalwood, the perfume oil. This is taken from the nut and it's the only plant in the plant kingdom that contains this super anti inflammatory omega.

[Carlene Higgins]

And what's it called again? I'm so sorry.

[Athena Hewitt]

Geominic. It's with an X.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

And then the raspberry seed that we get is from Marin. If you think about what it takes to extract oil from a raspberry seed, it's pretty crazy, Right? So that's also a very fancy oil, if you will, full of vitamin A, even more than the high, you know. Oh, gosh. What's the ingredient that had a really great PR team for hyaluronic acid. What's that?

[Carlene Higgins]

Hyaluronic acid?

[Jill Dunn]

Retinoic acid?

[Athena Hewitt]

No, not retinoid, the natural one. Bakuchiol.

[Jill Dunn]

Bakuchiol, yes, yes.

[Athena Hewitt]

So it's higher than. It's actually higher than bakuchiol oh, interesting. Yeah. But it's so expensive.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. So it kind of functions like Bakuchiol in a way.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. Performs better.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Athena Hewitt]

And that's the majority of that product is those carrier oils, raspberry seed. You normally see them lower in the ingredient list, but.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. And so what's that doing? Is it working on cell turnover, collagen rebuilding? Like what?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, absolutely. All those things. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay, great.

[Carlene Higgins]

Timeline is one of our show part. This week we all are hearing about this buzzword longevity when it comes to wellness and Beauty in 2026. Frankly, if you don't even know where to start, it can be really overwhelming. And that's why I'm excited that Timeline has their Mito pure gummies. So these are the first ever longevity gummies that support your cellular energy so you feel strong, clear and vibrant all year long. And it's really all about targeting a key hallmark of aging, which is mitochondrial decline. I'm hearing about this more and more. So the Mitopure gummies stay active, capable and vibrant as you age. And it's the number one doctor recommended Urolithin, a supplement, and they are clinically shown to support muscle strength and function. I've kind of likened these to like charging your internal batteries every day. And it's super easy to incorporate it into your daily habits. I just keep my Timeline gummies right beside my coffee maker, so I remember to take them every day. And it really makes you feel like you're doing something really great for your body to fuel your day and get sustained energy. So don't let another year go by by feeling less than your best. Grab 30% off your first month of Might Appear [e-mail] Beauty30 that's timeline.com Beauty30. While the offer lasts, that's timeline.com Beauty 30. We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Jill Dunn]

Today's episode is brought to you in part by Quince. Okay, quiet luxury is the topic of the day when it comes to fashion. Everyone needs to know about Quince because truly it's about capsule wardrobe building with quiet luxury items that aren't going to cost you a fortune. So let me tell you about my latest purchase. It's the 100 Organic Cotton Fisherman crew sweater. I got it in navy to match my suede navy tote from Quince that I still wear all the time. It fits my computer. I love it so much. So the fisherman crew. This is the perfect transitional piece to get you from winter to spring. And check this out. It comes in 19 colors. Okay. So you can get it in everything from redwood brown, which is so gorgeous, to grays, to neutrals, to blues. I'm so, so happy with this piece. I've washed it already on delicate, laid it flat to dry. It is great. Quince is just like that. They're making these high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like this. So you can find 100% European linen, 100% silk, organic cotton poplin. And these lightweight cashmere sweaters are really known for because they're so affordable. My sweater was 55 Canadian dollars. That's so good. I think it was 42 in the US and Quince works directly with safe, ethical factories. They just cut out the middlemen to get us these prices. So it's not really a fast fashion brand. So I like purchasing from Quince for that reason. And you're just not paying the markup for fancy retail stores that you would find elsewhere to get the quality. I love that. So if you want to try it for yourselves right now, go to quince.com breaking beauty for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Breaking Beauty for free shipping and three 365 day returns. Quince.com Breaking Beauty. I was reading about the Athena facial on your site, which sounds heavenly, of course. Named after yourself, given by yourself. It reads that the facials are a mixture of ritual, sensorial journey, choreographed massage technique, technology and a personally developed and highly effective extraction technique. So I'm so curious to know what this extraction technique looks like and how you kind of went off, because I know you kind of went to the top in terms of esthetician school. I forget what the acronym. So you went straight to the top and then you kind of have veered off and you have your own extraction technique. So tell us about that.

[Athena Hewitt]

I didn't really realize that it was special or something different until I started training estheticians. And yeah, they mentioned it. So I lean on the bones of the face and that's my support system. So you're like your cheekbones. I put all my weight on your bones and I use them. And then that way you're not putting too much pressure around the actual pimple and you just. Yeah, you use that. That pressure to leverage. Yeah. To go down. And I think that that's for some reason something that no one else is doing. I also use a really special needle to open things up and most of the time they've never seen this needle before. But yeah, it's all about the weight. I find that too many estheticians are going in more like.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, they're pushing the skin.

[Athena Hewitt]

You use pressure to pop it out. Not actual finger pressure.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Athena Hewitt]

So weight of the body.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm guessing that can create more. I don't want to say damage.

[Carlene Higgins]

Trauma.

[Athena Hewitt]

Oh, yeah, that will create more damage for sure when you're using just the.

[Jill Dunn]

Right. When you're using just your fingers.

[Athena Hewitt]

Because you're not really feeling things when you're using just your fingers.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Interesting.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Now I want to ask you about your no no list for monastery, because when I saw it, I was like, whoa, this is different than the normal, you know, Sephora clean list or lots of other lists. There were just things on there that I was like, oh, okay, tell me more. So I'm gonna. Let's do a little rapid fire.

[Athena Hewitt]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

About why these ingredients are on your no no list. So no Squalene.

[Athena Hewitt]

Oh, that's the shark.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. So you would use Squalane. Yeah, but not Squalene.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

That's an easy one.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And salicylic acid is on your no no list. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Why is that?

[Athena Hewitt]

I don't like it. So here's what salicylic acid does. It closes. So then your bacteria is trapped underneath and your body will create a wall of cells to protect the rest of the cells from the bacteria spreading. So you've got a nodule underneath there of cells that have wrapped around this bacteria that was in your pore. So you're gonna have pigmentation for possibly up to a year.

[Jill Dunn]

Wow.

[Athena Hewitt]

I've never seen it really work on anyone. Honestly. Maybe a 15 year old with really large open pores. Like their pores might be so large and open that it really would. There's no way for it to close them. But normally it wrecks skin. I've just seen it so many times.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

And it's the number one ingredient that is touted in all anti acne skin care. Yeah, it just kills me.

[Carlene Higgins]

Do you ever have any spicy conversations with dermatologists about that ingredient?

[Athena Hewitt]

No, I'm sure some could be had, but.

[Carlene Higgins]

So do you use or on the Internet, you know.

[Athena Hewitt]

Oh, yes, yes.

[Jill Dunn]

Do you use like a natural version, like willow bark extract or do you. What do you. What would you use instead?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, we haven't gone down the Willow bark extract route. I'm not opposed to that ingredient. I still don't like the idea of constricting which yellow.

[Carlene Higgins]

You're basically, your philosophy is like, get it all out of the pores. Like, if there's bacteria in the pore, don't hold it in there.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. My philosophy is like, relax and open, not. Yeah, close. Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

But you're basically saying that salicylic acid is kind of like a band aid solution.

[Athena Hewitt]

So.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. Yeah.

[Athena Hewitt]

There is only one time that I would recommend salicylic acid. If it is your wedding day and you really want to flatten something, but just know that there's going to be fallout, but maybe you're okay with that hyperpigmentation later.

[Jill Dunn]

So salicylic acid is meant to decongest. That's the main reason why skincare, like chemists would use it. Is that right?

[Athena Hewitt]

I suppose.

[Jill Dunn]

So what would you do instead? Like, what's your tactic for decongesting?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, more oil.

[Jill Dunn]

More oil. Oh, my gosh. People. So many people are quaking.

[Carlene Higgins]

Quaking.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, oil flow. Oil flows with more oil.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. So our skin is made up of oil. We let it just relax and then things will come out.

[Jill Dunn]

Kind of like oil pulling idea.

[Athena Hewitt]

I guess so, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

So this would go back to like your gold oil, for example. Is that. That's sort of the key or do you have a different.

[Athena Hewitt]

Oh, you mean the. Yeah, the face oil. Yeah, that is our most nutrient dense oil. So, yeah, you're getting a way to balance your skin with all of these incredible ingredients. The rose cleansing oil is really just made to balance and restore, whereas the gold is going to add.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. No petroleum products.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, I don't. We don't use crude oils. I mean, I do.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Athena Hewitt]

Are people still doing that?

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, yeah. Hell yeah. A petrolatum, you know, and an aquaphor, you know, going out skiing, slather and they. Slugging. Like slugging has been the biggest term. Right. In the last like three years. It's not for everyone, but like, if you live in a dry climate, tons of people are still slugging with.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Vaseline.

[Jill Dunn]

So you kind of use like a petrolatum alternative in a way to create castor bombs. Right. Like castor.

[Athena Hewitt]

I mean, the extraction of those products is just not super great for the environment. That's where that comes from.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

And do you find that your kind of alternative balms are less pore clogging than petrolatum, would you say?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yes, absolutely. None of our products have anything above like a 4 on the comedogenic level. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. Okay, great.

[Carlene Higgins]

And no shea butter. I'm with you on this one.

[Athena Hewitt]

You are? I love that.

[Carlene Higgins]

I hate shea butter.

[Athena Hewitt]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jill Dunn]

Dead to me.

[Athena Hewitt]

A lot of people don't like. It's an inexpensive, easily accessible product that really just doesn't contain any nutrients except for its moisturizing ability. I find it to be really comedogenic.

[Jill Dunn]

Mm. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

The only persons I'll give a slight shout out to is Mae Lindstrom's in that blue cocoon. She's got. She's got the shea butter in there, but she said she is sourcing it from I don't know where, and I do trust her.

[Athena Hewitt]

Okay. You know what? That's funny. When I saw that, when I saw Shay and her product, I was like, oh, this is a really nice bomb. Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Athena Hewitt]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

We're giving a hat tip.

[Carlene Higgins]

We are giving a hat tip. Tyler Times too. So we love her.

[Jill Dunn]

I also saw no cinnamon oil. I mean, is cinnamon in skin care? That's. That's kind of.

[Athena Hewitt]

That was my reaction.

[Jill Dunn]

I know.

[Athena Hewitt]

Shocking. I have been seeing it in skincare.

[Jill Dunn]

Really?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Athena Hewitt]

Because I think they want it to, like, brighten, bring some life to the skin. When I was making the line, I was lucky to have my clientele and I was really trying out every formulation on them. Right. That that oil somehow made it into some product because I was. No, no, no, no.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Okay. All right. Steer clear.

[Carlene Higgins]

And no coconut oils.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. Another comedogenic. Like.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Athena Hewitt]

Farming of that ingredient is not great. Squalane is a really nice alternative.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. And the derivatives, too.

[Carlene Higgins]

There's coconut based surfactants. That's what you're talking about.

[Jill Dunn]

Which you don't.

[Carlene Higgins]

In cleansers.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay, got it. Which you don't have cleansers like that, so that makes sense.

[Athena Hewitt]

Oh, okay. But I will say something. If something was a coconut based surfactant, I would be definitely more appealed to that one.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

Just because I'd be intrigued by the fact that it's naturally made. That could be interesting. And tea tree oil, it's another one of those high, high limiting, high linalool. When you think of a plant as having a sharpness to it, you also feel those effects on the skin. A sharpness to the skin, and you're just not really wanting to create a reaction. Sure, it has antibacterial properties, but you have to weigh those antibacterial properties with the other things that come along with it. I mean, most people put tea tree on their skin and they can feel the burning.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, that ends the rapid fire round, everybody.

[Jill Dunn]

Today's episode is brought to you in part by Qualia Life. So when I started on my perimenopausal journey, one of the first supplements that was ever recommended to me was magnesium. And what I didn't realize is a lot of us are low in magnesium, but especially as we age, our level of magnesium lowers along with our estrogen. Of. Of course. And the other thing that I didn't realize is I often would think about magnesium when it comes to sleep, but I didn't realize that it actually has whole body benefits as well, like thinking sharper, recovering faster, supporting muscle strength, steadier mood and stress response, and better energy metabolism overall. In fact, what I learned with Qualia Life is that magnesium helps in over 300 functions in the body. Qualia Magnesium plus is the only product to combine 10 bioavailable forms of magnesium with more than 70 trace minerals that help fuel magnesium's support. So this is really considered a full spectrum magnesium to help deliver magnesium's full potential. If you want to try it for yourselves, experience the most trusted magnesium for purity, potency and performance. Plus, it's non gmo, vegan and gluten free, making it a choice you can feel good about. With Qualia Magnesium plus, go to qualialife.com beauty for 50 off. And here's a bonus. Use the code Beauty for an additional 15 off your order. That's Q-U-A-L-I-A life.com beauty and use code BEAUTY. Thanks to Qualia for sponsoring this episode. We will link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. One thing I thought was interesting about your Attar concentrate, which we talked about earlier, and this is a really. To me, it almost looks like Elizabeth Arden eight hour cream because it's got this beautiful amber tone to it and it feels like a balm, but it's almost like a bio ointment in a way. And I was gonna ask you about that. Okay, I know what I was gonna say. And it's quite aromatic. And I think that some people assume that when you're using a highly active botanical or a highly potent botanical formula, and it is aromatic, that surely it must contain essential oils. But I read that ATTAR does not include any essential oils. So I'm just curious, like, honestly, maybe this is a really basic question, but what makes an essential oil an essential oil versus something like a rosehip oil, which I guess is not an essential oil.

[Athena Hewitt]

There's essential Oils, and there's absolute oils, and then there's carrier oils. Carrier oils are taken from nuts or seeds, and they're much larger molecules.

[Jill Dunn]

Molecules, okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

So like a castor oil is a carrier oil for sure.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. And then you're gonna have essential oils that are taken from flowers.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

Plant leaves, even sometimes bark. Things like. Yeah, sandalwood. Essential oil is going to be taken from a bark, and those are the life force of that plant and that flower. So they're the thing that, you know, it's the food.

[Jill Dunn]

It's essential.

[Athena Hewitt]

It's essential. So you're going to get a lot of good, but you're also going to get the things that might be irritating as well. So you have to just really pay attention to the levels of things like limonene and linalool. Whereas carrier oils don't contain any of those terpenes.

[Jill Dunn]

So they're more potent for sure.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, that help us explain that. So, yeah. So there's no essential oils in that particular product, which I guess as you're saying, like, could be irritating depending on how you formulate. Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. And I've also read that you have this no water cleansing method, but there's a bit of a twist because this doesn't even involve, like a miscellar water in the morning. And you even advise some clients to avoid tap water altogether. Is that true?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. When I was going through my healing stages of my acne, I wasn't using water on my face at all. And it took about six weeks of doing absolutely nothing to my skin, not even allowing water to just. I just didn't trust. Trust anything. Honestly. There is so much in our water, and how do we know that that mineral is not setting off an imbalance in our skin? So I really just want people to avoid that when trying to heal their acne. With the rose cleansing oil. I know exactly what's going on their skin. We're wiping it off. What's left over behind is nothing harmful and it's still healing, and it's just gonna allow things to. The good bacteria to regrow.

[Carlene Higgins]

Are people wearing makeup during this process or. No, they're not supposed to.

[Athena Hewitt]

Rose cleansing oil removes makeup beautifully.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, yeah, they can still. Okay, perfect.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. And so you'll recommend if they really want to, as you say, like, put water on a cloth as they wipe it off. Distilled water. Right.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. If they're really going through, like an acne healing, you don't have to go to those extreme measures. If you don't have something that you're trying to fix.

[Jill Dunn]

I have rosacea myself, so I like micellar cleansers because then I don't have to use the water because I find even just water can make me wet. So I have thought about like, water filter, but they're just ugly. Like I don't want to see it. You know what I mean? But I love this idea of a water filter because I do, as you say, like minerals and just, just throwing off my ph, I think is. Is a big part of it.

[Athena Hewitt]

And you could try the cleansing oil without any water, just a soft cloth.

[Carlene Higgins]

I feel like that's very European. And of course, in France, like, they don't. That's why they say micellar water was invented, is because they didn't want French women using the tap water on their face.

[Athena Hewitt]

Oh, interesting. Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, that's cool.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. And even before milks got popular in skincare in North America, like the original cleansing milks were French.

[Athena Hewitt]

Right, Right.

[Jill Dunn]

And the idea was that you would use this milk in a cloth and wipe it off and you didn't necessarily need to use.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, Like Tolerain is like that from La Roche Posay. It's still like that. They say tissue it off.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes, tissue. That's what they would always say.

[Athena Hewitt]

And I'm sure clean water at that time was really hard to come by.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, exactly.

[Carlene Higgins]

You couldn't pop down to the Vichy spring.

[Jill Dunn]

Anyway, ye whole thing with Paris and the water, that's. That's another story.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's good for your hair, bad for your skin. Anyway.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. On TikTok, there's a big focus on layering and you often see, like, people talking about which way they order their products. So for listeners who might be new to face oil, how do you work this into your application order? Like, where would sunscreen fit in? Or can you put a primer on top of oil? That kind of thing?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, absolutely. It should start setting into your skin within minutes. So you can apply anything on top of it. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And what are. You know, I was really interested on your website about your gadgets, as it were. So you have a red light therapy device. And I swear to God, this is like the question we get more than any question about over and over, because investment, these pieces are investment pieces, gadgets or skincare tools at home. And people want to know if they work. And I noticed that yours almost has like a, what you're calling like a burgundy wavelength. Like it goes a little deeper than a traditional red Light therapy mask. So I was very interested in that. Can you share more? And did you make this or how did you. Yeah, because it's quite a jump to go from creating skincare, handcrafting it to then getting into tools and devices.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. So he'd made this. This guy in Palo Alto that we came across. I think, I think he'd had someone who'd been into our spa. He'd made some pretty well known pieces out. And at the time he was just kind of testing this idea of not using an orange diode, but a more darker diode because it was gonna be. The more that you can saturate the skin with the red light, the more effects that you're gonna get. And it does make sense that the deeper hue that you use, you're going to be able to saturate something more than on the orange to red scale. Because I think he was showing me that all of them are using the orange to red scale light. So we started testing it in our spa for years for him and seeing great results. Adults and. Yeah, we made a mask.

[Carlene Higgins]

Amazing.

[Athena Hewitt]

Wow. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So, yeah, it's. It's technically. Yeah. You're calling it burgundy light.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you tried our mask?

[Carlene Higgins]

Not yet.

[Athena Hewitt]

I don't think there's a strong. It's the strongest one. It's what everyone, everyone's like, oh, my God.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, I'm into. But I would love to like professional at home. Yeah. Or it feels legitimate professional. When do you like to use it in your routine?

[Athena Hewitt]

Personally, I mean, I think what is easiest for someone is the only thing I would suggest. Consistency is key with these things. So if you can only do five minutes a day, this thing can produce enough energy in five minutes. So whenever you've got the little eye things and you can work, I mean, we should just relax. Right. But I'm also.

[Jill Dunn]

You could read.

[Athena Hewitt]

You could read any. Leaving it by the side of the bed is an easy way to just do it at the end of the night, every day, five minutes, because then you're getting in the habit. I find that you might not really need to use it every day, but there's something about not doing something every day that it done.

[Carlene Higgins]

So what personally have you seen in your clients if they are using it? If like, you know, you have your A student clients, I'm sure where you're like, like they're going to be a good tester. So what have you seen them come

[Athena Hewitt]

back with lower pigmentation? I mean the pigmentation, literally, it looks like they've Gotten a fraxel.

[Jill Dunn]

Incredible.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. The texture is different. I asked my mom about a month ago if she got a fraxel. She was like, no, I've still never gotten a fraxel. Should I get one?

[Carlene Higgins]

Incredible.

[Jill Dunn]

Keep doing what you're doing. So is there a blue setting for acne, or it's just the burgundy light you'd recommend for everyone, or it really

[Athena Hewitt]

lowers the strength of the red to be able to do the oscillation because you have to have the blue lights in there along with the red. So you're not getting full saturation mode by having. You're losing half the lights by having the blue light in there. I see.

[Jill Dunn]

So it combines both.

[Athena Hewitt]

No. So our burgundy is proven to be the most healing.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

And what you're trying to get out of the blue is healing anyways. Right. So if you have a color that is the most healing, maybe you should just stick with that. Stick with that.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. So, like, I could use it and my teenage acneic daughter could use it too.

[Athena Hewitt]

100%.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Okay. So we don't need the red and blue.

[Carlene Higgins]

Everybody looking ahead, you're launching something new, right?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

What are you launching?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. This is a. A new ingredient that has never been seen in skincare in this way. My father in law is a scientist, and he came across this ingredient that they were using in cancer, and he said, I think that you should take a look at this. It looks really interesting, and maybe you'd like it on the skin. We've been working with it for. This was a very long time ago, so we've been working with it for about two years now and are really excited to introduce it to the skincare world. It creates hydration while creating also a web. So it's hydrating, but it could be a standalone because it really just creates this barrier.

[Carlene Higgins]

What is it called or the name of the ingredient?

[Athena Hewitt]

Tagwa. Oh, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Where does tagua come from? Is it a plant?

[Athena Hewitt]

Yes, it is a plant. And it comes from. It is one of the hardest nuts in the world. They use it as, like, if you've seen fake ivory and stuff.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, interesting.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. But when you take it down to a nano level, it really creates this really even web that's still breathable but can hold things in. Yeah. Ecuador. It comes from.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, interesting. So the product's called Hydra. And what will it look. Will it be an oil or what is it?

[Athena Hewitt]

No, it's gonna be a. It's not gonna be an oil. Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. All right. Is it an essence or where does it sort of fit into your routine?

[Athena Hewitt]

No, it's gonna be sort of like acting like an oil. Like the power of an oil in a water.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay, so it is a water.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. Its moisture holding ability is that strong that it holds up next to a raspberry seed oil, which is really incredible for.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, okay, interesting. So you'd put that on maybe right after you wash. Yeah, you can.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah, you can put it on standalone. It could be your first step. You could also use it at the end as like a holding in, you know, a barrier.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Okay, interesting. I can't wait to try that. Your origins in Greece and your grandmother kind of sparked this passion for you. And the original monastery inspiration came from Greece. So if you were to go back, what herb would you bring home? What would you use it for?

[Athena Hewitt]

You know, I've never worked with mastic gum, and there's an island in Greece. I want to say it's Ischia, but I'm not entirely sure. But it's known as, like, the mastic island. And this particular super healing gum looks really interesting to me.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Athena Hewitt]

Yeah. I think it's the only place in the world that grows it.

[Jill Dunn]

I love this. I'm looking up how to say thank you in Greek, but. Thank you for being with us.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thank you so much. We gotta come check out your space in San Francisco.

[Jill Dunn]

Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog @breaking beauty podcast.com.

[Carlene Higgins]

while you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox, so you won't miss a

[Jill Dunn]

single thing and get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast.

[Carlene Higgins]

And did you know we also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.

[Jill Dunn]

You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-2270-302.

[Carlene Higgins]

And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.

[Jill Dunn]

See you next Wednesday, Happy. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.