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Breaking Beauty Podcast
The “Undetectable” Era Flex with Dr. Catherine Chang: From “Jellyroll” Botox to the Bijoux Lift and are 20-somethings *Actually* Getting Facelifts?
00:52:46
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- [00:01]
Jill Dunn
The following podcast is a Dear media production. Welcome to Breaking Beauty the podcast, all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.
- [00:14]
Carlene Higgins
We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins. Hello and welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast, everyone. We're Jill and Carlene here, two beauty editors turned beauty podcasters like we are every single Wednesday and we're always chatting about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty. And I need to reiterate that this is Jill speaking because, Carlene, we just had a comment from somebody on our YouTube video who said, my mind is blown. I feel like I'm in an alternate reality because I finally have watched you guys on YouTube and I had you inverted the whole eight years. So you are about to speak. This is what.
- [00:57]
Jill Dunn
Carl, that's hilarious. Okay, this is me. I'm down here. My voice is low. How can I describe how we look differently though, so that people understand when you see a situation?
- [01:08]
Carlene Higgins
I'm much young. I'm much younger.
- [01:10]
Jill Dunn
Oh, yeah, Jill's the baby looking one.
- [01:13]
Carlene Higgins
No, Jill. Blue eyes.
- [01:14]
Jill Dunn
Jill has blue eyes. I have brown eyes. That's probably the easiest way to describe.
- [01:19]
Carlene Higgins
And my hair is quite dark in comparison to yours, I would say.
- [01:23]
Jill Dunn
I guess so. Yeah. You got brown, brown, brown hair. Mine's kind of like ombre, I guess you could say so now you know everybody now.
- [01:31]
Carlene Higgins
And it also happened to me in person last night because I was out to dinner and yes. And somebody said, oh, my God, I listen to your podcast. Which one are you? And I said, I'm Jill.
- [01:41]
Jill Dunn
Oh, my God.
- [01:42]
Carlene Higgins
So we clearly need to do a much better job of distinguishing who we are eight years ago. I freaking love it when people say hello, please always do so because it's so nice to meet our audience in person. And by the way, everyone, if you're listening and you live in the gta, we are going to be doing a live event on Friday, June 20, and we encourage all of you to join us. It's going to be great because we're talking to Dr. Sherene Idris. Like, hello. She is the arbiter of hot takes in when it comes to skincare.
- [02:11]
Jill Dunn
Oh, yeah. Everybody wants to know what. What she is de influencing or what she is influencing. And I believe her line, Dr. Shreen Idris is still pretty new here in Canada. So anybody who wants an introduction, you want to hear us chatting. She's been on our show at least a couple of times. So we have a great just rapport. We're just gonna be opening it all up and talking like we would if we were out for drinks at the Soho House. So please come and join us and say hi and there will be a swag bag trust. We'll have a link in our show notes. You can click on that to reserve your spot.
- [02:46]
Carlene Higgins
And we will be at extra sure in person to introduce who we. That's right, who we are. Right, Absolutely. So we always have so many amazing guests on our show and today is no exception.
- [03:00]
Jill Dunn
Yes, we're chatting with one of the go to plastic surgeons in Beverly Hills for this whole undetectable era in cosmetic surgery. Her name is Dr. Katherine Chang and I may as well be on our wait list. I'm a huge fan.
- [03:15]
Carlene Higgins
Indeed. And she's a board certified, quadruple Ivy league educated surgeon. And she is also the founder of Pre Beverly Hills. She is world renowned for her natural yet transformative results. And I feel like she just has a really incredible eye and that technical excellence that everybody wants.
- [03:35]
Jill Dunn
She is who I would personally go to if I could afford a facelift right now, honestly. And what a lot of people may not know is that Dr. Chang actually created these hydrogel under eye patches for her clients recovering from various different treatments. And I mentioned them on the pod a while back because they're pricey, but they are so good. Like, I just find a lot of these under eye patches. They're okay. You don't really see that much. But these ones, I was like, oh, I feel like it's brighter, it's cooler, it's de puffed. And it turns out I wasn't wrong because these under eye patches have like a cult following among celebrities and editors now.
- [04:15]
Carlene Higgins
Absolutely. And you just know that she's catering to all of the top A listers because like I've even seen on her own Instagram, like certain people in the beauty industry that we know, and it's like, even though their eyes are cut out of the picture, it's like, I know that chin. I know.
- [04:31]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [04:31]
Carlene Higgins
Somebody who we know. That's like in our similar age group. And I was like, oh, that's so and so and good for them. Amazing.
- [04:38]
Jill Dunn
Absolutely. So she's kind of expanding in this whole skincare arm of her business. The name of her line is called Naked Beauty, Maryland. And because of the success of these under eye patches, she launched the full face version. It's called the Bio peptide firming hydrogel face mask. It is, I will warn you, $148 for a box, $28 for a single. So it's not inexpensive to do these treatments. Maybe you're Going to do it once a week or what have you. It's chocolate block with peptides, vitamin C, niacinamide, ferulic acid. And what you're probably really noticing right away is the caffeine and these pearlescent minerals. That's what gives you this instant luminosity that makes me want to use it like when I've had too many glasses of wine the night before. You know what I mean?
- [05:27]
Carlene Higgins
Right, right. And you were saying as well, Carlene, that she's also launched an eye serum. I haven't tried that yet. It has growth factors. So I feel like she is definitely moving in this direction. It kind of makes sense. I feel like many prominent plastic surgeons, this is the move. It's like, yes, you have your clients who are a captive audience and they are looking for the skin care to maintain these incredible results. So, yeah, all makes sense to me.
- [05:50]
Jill Dunn
Absolutely. And she describes her line as being of medical grade quality. I know we still get this question a lot. So we do ask her what that means to her. In today's episode, we're also talking about the hallmarks of undetectable plastic surgery. What are they? And what to ask for. What to ask for when you're undergoing blepharoplasty, like I had done about a year ago now.
- [06:14]
Dr. Katherine Chang
And.
- [06:14]
Jill Dunn
And she talks about why she thinks so many surgeons are actually getting it wrong. So I was hanging on her every word, trust me.
- [06:21]
Carlene Higgins
And we also get an introduction to her signature, what she calls a BEU facelift, which is tailored to her clients who are under 40. And please do watch us over on YouTube. You'll never get us confused again. And everything that we chat about today we will link to on our website as well, which is breaking beauty podcast.com. here she is. Dr. Chang Sactin is one of our show partners this week. So when I see the words peptide and plump on a skincare label, it's an immediate yes, I am very interested. And that's why I was excited to try the new Peptide Plump collagen cushion cream for from Strivectin. So this is an annual cream, it's next generation. It was clinically tested on people considering injectable filler and the results are surprising because just after four weeks, an incredible 97% said that they would choose this cream over injectable filler. And that was based on a self assessment questionnaire of 35 subjects after four weeks of use as directed. The secret is Trivectin's exclusive Alpha 3 peptide technology which was created with AI and it targets all three of your skin's building blocks. So that's collagen, elastin and hyaluronic acid. Plus it's boosted by Argylene for even more smoothing power. And with daily use, it's clinically proven to improve the look of fine lines. Laugh lines, the 11 lines, like between your eyebrows and forehead wrinkles. And that's based on an expert grading evaluation of 35 subjects after four weeks of use as directed. What hooked me though about this product is the unique cushiony bounce back texture. It really reminded me of like a K beauty gel cream, which my skin just loves. It goes on so well under makeup. It's not greasy at all. It's very lightweight. It's definitely going to be a new routine staple. So you can discover more about the new Peptide Plump collagen cushion cream from Strivectin if you head over to strivectin.com so strivectin.com Discover the science behind great skin with Strivectin. We'll link to this URL in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show. Hey there. I'm Brittany Xavier.
- [08:49]
Dr. Katherine Chang
And I'm Anthony Xavier.
- [08:50]
Carlene Higgins
And this is the Long Game. I'm Brittany, a mom of three and content creator, passionate about wellness and living life to the fullest. This is my husband Anthony, who's been my partner in life and everything we do.
- [09:00]
Jill Dunn
If you're looking for inspiration to live.
- [09:02]
Carlene Higgins
Intentionally, nurture meaningful relationships and embrace a.
- [09:05]
Jill Dunn
Lifestyle that promotes one well being, you've.
- [09:07]
Carlene Higgins
Come to the right place. Each week we'll bring you conversations with experts in health, wellness and personal development. We'll also be sharing our own stories like how we navigate the ups and downs of family life and our journey towards a more mindful, fulfilling lifestyle. Expect some fun, laughter and honest moments.
- [09:22]
Jill Dunn
From us along the way.
- [09:23]
Carlene Higgins
New episodes will be released every Thursday and you can find us wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [09:34]
Jill Dunn
Welcome to the show, Dr. Chang.
- [09:36]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Thank you so much for having me.
- [09:38]
Jill Dunn
So excited to have you here. We were just talking off mic about how we had some lovely cocktails last time we were in town.
- [09:44]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yes.
- [09:44]
Jill Dunn
And we finally have a chance to sit down with you on the mic and I wanted to ask you, since there is this rise of the undetectable era, have you noticed that you're getting more people interested in plastic surgery and maybe less people going for all the filler and Botox? Or is that just me? Because that's like, that's been like. If I look back at my last year, I had basically no injectables But I had blepharoplasty. So is that widespread or am I alone in that?
- [10:15]
Dr. Katherine Chang
No, that's a great question. So one thing in general with quiet luxury and that's always been kind of my ethos with plastic surgery. I feel like natural is always in, you know, a lot of people are trend based surgeons, but that's not what I do. And so this is, is kind of great for me right now because that's always just been how I view plastic surgery and how I do it. I would say that the difference is not so much that people aren't doing as many injectables, but I think people are a lot more knowledgeable about what surgery can achieve and how it can still look natural. Because I think a lot of people when they'll steer towards injectables first because they're worried that they'll look either strange with surgery or it's too invasive. But I think a lot of people now understand that plastic surgery can be really the way I do it especially is restorative. So you're putting things back to where they used to be. So I think the fear of looking like a completely different person is, has been quieted a lot.
- [11:10]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, there was definitely for a while we talked about this, that kind of like plastic surgery face that, you know, so many people started to look alike and it was that it was kind of like inflated and it was just like a certain look. And I think that's starting to wane, which is good to see.
- [11:29]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Definitely good to see. So we're definitely seeing, I would say trend wise for the past year or two, definitely an increase in people asking to dissolve their filler using less filler. I never have loved filler in general, so I have never been a proponent of putting too much filler in in one setting. But we're seeing a lot of that reductions in bbls downsizing of breast implants. So that trend, you know, we've really seen over the past two years, but definitely increasing this year.
- [11:56]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, I've heard of the ballerina breast. Is that like a thing it's or like smaller basically?
- [12:02]
Dr. Katherine Chang
I think it's smaller. It's just like a media name I think people have given it, but just a smaller breast without so much superior pull fullness, which was a, a look that a lot of people liked for a really long time. But that does not look natural.
- [12:16]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
- [12:18]
Carlene Higgins
And what about this technique we've been reading about called Gelly Roll Botox? Have you heard of it?
- [12:23]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yes.
- [12:23]
Carlene Higgins
O. It looks interesting as Maybe a lower bleph kind of alternative. I don't know. What are your thoughts? Is it a do, Is it a don't?
- [12:32]
Dr. Katherine Chang
So the jelly roll, just for people who don't know what that is, is that little roll that people get when you smile right underneath the eye. And interestingly, this is very. It's almost dependent on where you are. So in Asia it's called I go sal and that's actually desired. But in the US a lot of people don't like that. So what you can do, and it depends, there's different reasons that people get them. So they can either it's either due to bunching of the lower eyelid or bicularis muscle. It can be due to excess skin or it can be due to fat. So depending on what it is, will depend on how you treat it. If it's due to muscle bunching, that's where Botox comes in. So I think if somebody doesn't like that, where they get kind of fullness under the eye when they smile, I think Botox is a nice treatment for that. Easy. Just one or two units would help it. If it's due to skin excess or fat, then Botox wouldn't help it. So it kind of depends on puffiness. Yeah.
- [13:32]
Carlene Higgins
Which is like the main things right underneath the eye.
- [13:34]
Jill Dunn
Then you need those patches. It's interesting because there is a creator who I follow on TikTok and she does her makeup very uniquely where she. She always does like a little bit of eyeshadow.
- [13:48]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yes.
- [13:49]
Jill Dunn
Under the eyes. She's Caucasian. But I was like, where is this coming from?
- [13:53]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yes. So is that kind of very common in Asia? So typically they, the way they do makeup in Asia is they will take like a light brown and they will outline the jelly roll and create a shadow under there.
- [14:07]
Jill Dunn
That's what she's doing.
- [14:08]
Dr. Katherine Chang
And it's supposed to. What it means in Korean. That word was a. It's supposed to be cute. Like, it's like a cute thing that people like with the eye.
- [14:16]
Jill Dunn
That's definitely what she's going for because there's also the freckles and like the highlight on the end of the nose. And. Okay, it's all, it's all making sense now. We were talking about dissolving the filler and I thought this was interesting. I was reading an article in Allure and Dr. Few who was quoted said, 15 years ago I would have kicked any 40 year old who was thinking about a facelift out of my office. But now he's seeing 40 year olds who have overfilled and actually need a facelift. And he's, he actually said, I do blame a handful of individuals on the medical side that have been proponents of mega filler sessions, putting in 20 syringes of filler in one session. And this is what has produced what we're now dealing with. So I'm curious if you do think that this kind of like, movement is resulting, just like I was saying in the beginning of like actually an increase in cosmetic surgery.
- [15:11]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah, I don't think it's that straightforward of an answer, but I think there's twofold. I think definitely when somebody is overfilled with 20 plus syringes that can stretch out the skin and when you dissolve it, especially if you're doing it after the age of 35, where your, your elasticity in the skin starts to diminish, then the skin isn't going to retract back to where it was, and then you will be left with excess skin that then, you know, needs to be removed. So I definitely do agree with that. But at the same time, I think that even without filler, a lot of 40 year olds who are coming in do actually meet criteria and are good candidates for facelifting. And I think that even without filler, they would have been good candidates for the surgery.
- [15:55]
Jill Dunn
You yourself, who's, who's become known for the most natural, undetectable results in, in Beverly Hills, but you also are a student of art history, you're a concert pianist, you know, you've been educated and you have an appreciation of fine arts. And I wonder if, like, how much of that idea is even addressed when you're studying to be a plastic surgeon. Do you know what I mean? Because part of it is aesthetic.
- [16:26]
Carlene Higgins
Like you're really, what is that called? The golden ratio or whatever.
- [16:29]
Dr. Katherine Chang
There is a golden ratio, right?
- [16:30]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [16:31]
Jill Dunn
Which you may or may not agree with, but I don't know, like, just maybe tell us a bit of background because people do have different ideas of what would look good and, and what wouldn't.
- [16:40]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah. So I always use the analogy that my brother's an orthopedic surgeon, my uncle's a neurosurgeon. And you know, when my brother is fixing a broken bone, he's plating it together, he's x raying it and it's, it's done. Plastic surgeons differ in that there is this artistic element to it that's not just technical. You know, how much are you lifting, what vector are you lifting in, how tight are you, you know, making the sutures you know, what slope of the nose, you know, will look good. And that's. That's really personal, and that's really the. The artistic element that I think comes into play, which you don't really see with any other medical profession. And so with my background of studying art history, being a concert pianist, I think there was always, for me, an appreciation of the arts and appreciation of beauty. And so even when I was in. I think it was middle school, maybe fourth or fifth grade, somebody gifted me the edit scalpel. I have always been good with knives. The Kevin Aucoin makeup book.
- [17:43]
Jill Dunn
Making face.
- [17:44]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yes, Making faces and making faces. And, you know, I found that just so interesting because through makeup and you can create different highlights. You can contour things and change the shape of the face, and you can see what a big difference that makes. And I think my appreciation for understanding that, understanding beauty and with art history, seeing how the concept of beauty has changed through different time periods, but then there's always Constance there as well. So I think just having a personal interest in that, always as a child and then with the concert piano and playing, that I think it really allowed me to have significant, improved dexterity. I started playing when I was 5, and I think that's really translated into my ability to keep incisions small, being really delicate with how I handle soft tissue healing, which is why my patients, I think, heal so quickly. Yeah, exactly.
- [18:42]
Jill Dunn
And somebody said to you. They watched you and said, you should. You've got really fine hands and handy work, so you should go in this direction.
- [18:52]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Right, right. So when I was in medical school, we were doing cadaver dissections, and you're in a group, and we had. I think at that point, he was probably 80. He was one of the oldest faculty members at Columbia, and he was our anatomy professor who's been through generations of, you know, surgeons that Columbia has put out. And he watched me dissect. And this was probably my second month of medical school. And he's like, I think you're gonna be a plastic surgeon. And I. At that point, it wasn't what I was thinking at all, but yes. So that's lovely.
- [19:36]
Jill Dunn
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- [21:39]
Carlene Higgins
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- [23:14]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Sa.
- [23:18]
Carlene Higgins
What do you think the hallmarks are of this sort of new undetectable era?
- [23:22]
Dr. Katherine Chang
So how I've always thought about undetectable work, and again, this is what I've always believed in and done, is that you maintain somebody's essence. And that's what I, you know, I think I'm known for because even though I'm doing a lot of surgery on somebody, they don't look surgical. And I think there's multiple points to how that can be undetectable. But one of them is that they maintain, you know, their, their essence. When you look at somebody, the brain isn't calcul. Oh, is that crease too high? Is that brow too high? But it's just the feeling the brain gets when they look at somebody and whether or not that person looks and feels different to them. So I think there's that aspect of it, and that's definitely just something I, you know, I'm not measuring, but just something like I'm eyeballing when I look at somebody. And on the table then there's, of course, imperceptible incisions. I think that's really key. You know, nobody wants a noticeable incision and be able to say it's, you know, I, I didn't have any work done.
- [24:21]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah, it's. You're making it sound easy. It's not easy. And like, I feel like there is a face out there. I've seen it where it's almost like a bit like AI, you know, it's a bit like paint by numbers. It's shiny. It just. Yeah, it looks too tight.
- [24:38]
Jill Dunn
We're starting to see. So I mentioned earlier, like, we, we don't have that plastic surgery face that we had 10 years ago, which was kind of that, like walking down fifth Avenue shopping.
- [24:49]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah. It was like the early adopters.
- [24:51]
Jill Dunn
Yeah. But there is starting to be a little bit of a sameness. I'm sure you notice where it's just like a bigger kind of Disney character kind of eye and Like a heart shaped chin. You know what I mean? Like there's just proportionately, it seems like there might be some of that sameness starting to come around.
- [25:15]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [25:15]
Jill Dunn
And then it was like the Kardashian thing and now it's kind of going into, I don't know, it reminds me of like a Disney princess look, you know?
- [25:24]
Dr. Katherine Chang
You know, I would say with going back to undetectable plastic surgery and keeping somebody's essence, I try not to mimic anything between my patients, but it's really what looks best for that patient. So I know what you're saying. I haven't really seen that in my patients though, because I think.
- [25:42]
Jill Dunn
Well, not your patients, of course, and company excluded.
- [25:47]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Thank you. But you know, sometimes a heart shaped face on one person, like you're saying, or the bigger eye may not look better on somebody. So I did have a patient come in and they said, I want my crease higher. I want my eye to look, you know, a lot bigger and brighter. And I actually told them I didn't think that was a good idea and we should keep their existing crease position because even if you lift the crease higher and it makes the eye look bigger, it wouldn't look right. So I think again, that's where that, you know, counseling comes in and the artistic judgment comes in.
- [26:15]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [26:15]
Dr. Katherine Chang
And then going back to your question about, you know, what makes something undetectable, it's also the vectors, specifically for like facelifting. What vectors are you pulling it in? Because if you pull it in an incorrect or unnatural vector, it looks off because the face, you know, doesn't lift that way. And I think something you said was incredibly key, which is that sometimes you see a really tight face, you know, someone who's had a lift and they look really tight, but they don't look younger.
- [26:44]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [26:44]
Dr. Katherine Chang
And I think that's also really key. It's not just about making somebody look tight. It's about, I think, making them look more rejuvenated, more rested. And it is normal to have a little bit of skin. You know, 20 year olds come in and when they do this, of course they have excess skin. So I think, you know, it's not just about making sure someone's like perfectly tight with no excess skin.
- [27:04]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, Sometimes. Sometimes you say no.
- [27:06]
Dr. Katherine Chang
It sounds like yes.
- [27:08]
Carlene Higgins
Yes.
- [27:09]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Often, yeah.
- [27:10]
Carlene Higgins
What, what percentage would you say that is that?
- [27:13]
Dr. Katherine Chang
You say, well, to even make it to me, we actually have a two to three step screening process. So somebody has to make it through the screenings to get to me. And that's the screenings are a multitude of things that we look at. Sometimes it's aesthetic based. So if someone says people sometimes when they request a consultation, will send in a photo of what they want, or they'll say, you know, a photo of themselves. And this is what I want with a morph. And if it's something that is definitely something that my team and I don't feel looks natural, they wouldn't even make it to see me. So of the people that make it to see me, probably 25%, I, you know, either don't take on or I, you know, counsel to do something else.
- [28:00]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot of business to say no to. So I commend you for that.
- [28:06]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Oh, thank you. I mean, it's. Anytime you operate on somebody, it's a long term relationship. And so that's how I view it. Is it somebody that, number one, you have an easy way to communicate with to a similar esthetic? And is this somebody you want for, you know, years?
- [28:21]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [28:21]
Carlene Higgins
Right.
- [28:22]
Jill Dunn
One major point of difference as far as I can see that you do in your work is custom facial implants. And you create these with CT scans so they actually fit the face extremely precisely. They're really custom as opposed to, you know, taking them off the shelf. So again, it's just like really enhancing. It sounds like almost like restorative of what this person probably once had. And I read that you also co authored a textbook atlas of facial implants. So. Yeah, tell us about this. Like what? Who would be a candidate for this? And yeah, just tell us more.
- [29:01]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah, so custom facial implants are something that is pretty unique. Only a handful of surgeons in the country do it. And so what that is is if we want to augment or change the facial skeleton through implants, this I think is the best way to do it because you can actually customize it to the patient's. Precisely. And so what we do is the patient gets a scan, it gets rendered into a 3D image. I then design the implant on the skull on the computer, and then that implant gets made, sterilized and shipped to me.
- [29:33]
Carlene Higgins
And what is it made out of?
- [29:35]
Dr. Katherine Chang
There is two different types of material. There's silicone or porous polyethylene. I tend to prefer the latter because I think there's better soft tissue integration. Most surgeons aren't as comfortable with that material, but as long as you know how to use it, I think it delivers better results. But if you think about someone's facial skeleton which having, you know, not Seen it for most people directly, there are so many different contours. There's so many angles that are different between one person and the next. So expecting an off the shelf implant to match somebody's chin between two people, it's just, they never fit right. And then you also save a lot of operative time because you do a lot of the pre planning, you know, off the operating room table as opposed to off the shelf. You're on the table carving the implant, shaving it down, trying to manipulate it to fit onto the skeleton. And so with facial implants, you can pretty much put it anywhere. So common places are the chin, which I love. I feel like almost everyone needs a chin, myself included. Jaw implants. So people who have a short, what's called the ramus, which is the distance from this bone, the vertical bone on the jawline, from the ear to the bottom of the jaw, that in certain people is really short.
- [30:48]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [30:49]
Dr. Katherine Chang
And so that can create a less defined transition between the jaw and the neck, where people feel like their, their jaw blends into the neck. So with the, the implant, you can change both the length of the ramus, drop the jaw down.
- [31:04]
Carlene Higgins
I'm measuring a short one or a long one. Let's see.
- [31:09]
Jill Dunn
That's my ramus.
- [31:10]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Not bad.
- [31:11]
Jill Dunn
Not bad.
- [31:12]
Dr. Katherine Chang
And then you can change like, the width. So for men especially, a longer and wider ramus tends to look more masculine.
- [31:20]
Jill Dunn
Okay, I have so many questions. Now. One of the things maybe people don't realize is that your bone actually starts to kind of erode right around your chin and jaw area. Like, you start to lose it. Right?
- [31:35]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Just in general, as we age, you know, we not only shrink in height, but we. Our facial skeleton, there is bone resorption. So if you already had a weak chin to start in your teens and twenties, when you're in your forties and older, you'll have even more recession. So there definitely is that.
- [31:52]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [31:53]
Dr. Katherine Chang
But the whole facial skeleton, not just the jaw, the rim, the temples.
- [31:57]
Jill Dunn
Okay, and now is this something primarily men are having done this masculinization, or is it like evenly split or who's pretty even?
- [32:10]
Dr. Katherine Chang
So the chin, the chin implants, I would say perfectly evenly split between men and women. And also a lot of women are initially worried about chin implants because they think it will make them look more masculine because it'll look too wide or too long. But that's the beauty of customization, is I create these really tiny implants and they blend seamlessly into the jaw so there's no step off. And then you can make a 1 millimeter implant. 2 millimeters, 3 millimeters. So really small. That's like this big. But it makes a big difference of the box implants. Sometimes the smallest size is a 5 millimeter, depending on what company you're using that. So that is way too big for most women.
- [32:49]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [32:50]
Dr. Katherine Chang
For jaw implants, I would say that's 80% male.
- [32:55]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [32:56]
Carlene Higgins
Okay.
- [32:56]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [32:57]
Carlene Higgins
I remember we spoke with another plastic surgeon. He was talking about how most people think they need a nose job, but they just really need a chin job.
- [33:04]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [33:05]
Carlene Higgins
To balance. Because then you get the better profile.
- [33:09]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah.
- [33:09]
Carlene Higgins
And people are, like, obsessively looking at their nose, but they don't really think about the chin.
- [33:14]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yes.
- [33:15]
Carlene Higgins
So this is really interesting.
- [33:16]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah. So definitely looking. When I assess a face in a nose as well, you look at the harmony between and the proportions between the rest of the face, the chin, the nose. So a lot of people hyper focus.
- [33:27]
Carlene Higgins
Yes.
- [33:27]
Dr. Katherine Chang
On one spot. And that's why when people are focusing on, like, a line, you know, I. I counsel them. No one is seeing that line but you. But yes, that's very true. So you really want to balance the nose and the chin together.
- [33:38]
Carlene Higgins
Zoom out, everybody. Yeah.
- [33:49]
Jill Dunn
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- [35:54]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah. So I think it depends on what somebody is looking to achieve. So if somebody has had volume loss and we're talking about just facial rejuvenation and restoring volume. I like fat. I think it looks natural. It ages better, too. And you're replacing like with like. You know, you can sometimes do filler, depending on the location, depending on the amount. But I do tend to prefer fat with implants. It depends on where, you know, we're placing it. So if it's in the chin, I always prefer an implant over fat.
- [36:27]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [36:27]
Dr. Katherine Chang
I don't put fat in the jawline. Some people do, but nobody wants like a saggy kind of jaw. And I don't think fat is structured enough.
- [36:35]
Jill Dunn
You're looking for structure.
- [36:37]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah. And which is why I also don't love filler in the jawline. So a lot of people do that, but I don't think it provides enough definition. And then in the cheek, it depends. If somebody is just it's due to volume deficiency, then I think fat grafting makes sense. If I think it's due to skeletal deficiency, then that's where the implant comes in.
- [36:56]
Jill Dunn
And I did go to an event where they were talking about a newer. I forget the name, but it was a newer filler that was like the most dense one on the market. I think it launched in Canada before.
- [37:08]
Carlene Higgins
The U.S. i think it was from Galderma. Yeah.
- [37:11]
Jill Dunn
So you prefer.
- [37:12]
Dr. Katherine Chang
I still do. I think even the most. So that's referring to G prime, which is how compressible a filler is. So even the highest G prime filler is not going to be as effective as an implant.
- [37:25]
Jill Dunn
Right. Which still feels real and everything. Just like a breast implant.
- [37:28]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Right? Yeah. I mean, 100% of the patients that I've placed implants on, everybody says they don't feel it.
- [37:34]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [37:35]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Okay, so once it's in, it's.
- [37:36]
Carlene Higgins
It's known as. If anyone wants to look it up, it's Restylane. Define D, E, F. We have that one.
- [37:41]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah.
- [37:42]
Carlene Higgins
I did have a question about the prevalence of that. These Facial implants. Is this something you're seeing more of now? In the era of weight loss, semaglutide medications, people are like losing that volume and they want to come in to you to fix it or what like this. Facial implants seem kind of crazy to me. I'm sorry. Like putting a foreign type of object in your face to hold the structure that's not your bone. I just don't know.
- [38:12]
Dr. Katherine Chang
So I would say that facial implants are much more common than you think.
- [38:17]
Carlene Higgins
Okay.
- [38:18]
Dr. Katherine Chang
And in Hollywood, in. In Hollywood, in just models, your friends. Right. You know, I think it's a lot more common than you think.
- [38:27]
Carlene Higgins
Okay.
- [38:28]
Jill Dunn
I'm not saying no.
- [38:29]
Dr. Katherine Chang
I'm not saying no. Even back in the 60s, people were replacing implants.
- [38:34]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, really.
- [38:35]
Dr. Katherine Chang
And at one point, people were using like goat cartil. And we don't do that now, obviously. I don't think I've been seeing specifically semi glutides leading to an increase in facial implants. But I think with rapid weight loss, regardless of the cause, you can have skin laxity. So we are seeing, you know, people coming in saying, oh, they feel like their face is falling or it looks looser than before.
- [39:02]
Carlene Higgins
Right.
- [39:02]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Which is also true. When you lose fat, you lose the support under the skin.
- [39:05]
Carlene Higgins
So what are you recommending for those types of patients?
- [39:08]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah, so it really depends on what I'm seeing. But if it's really a lot of facial laxity, facial skin laxity and soft tissue laxity, then face and neck lift.
- [39:17]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, yeah.
- [39:17]
Carlene Higgins
Straight to the lift, everyone.
- [39:20]
Jill Dunn
What is the bijou lift? Because this is something that you developed and kind of coined.
- [39:26]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yes.
- [39:26]
Jill Dunn
Tell us what that is.
- [39:27]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yes. I'm laughing because my operative team always knows anytime I'm operating on somebody and doing a bijou lift, I'm very jealous because I want one. They always laugh at me because I'm always like, oh, I really wish I could get this.
- [39:39]
Carlene Higgins
So you need to do that severance thing where you like. You're like the Audi Dr. Chang.
- [39:44]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, yeah.
- [39:45]
Carlene Higgins
And operating on the inner. Inner doctor.
- [39:48]
Dr. Katherine Chang
That would be amazing, actually.
- [39:50]
Jill Dunn
And by the way, unless you're watching this on YouTube, which you should be, Dr. Chang also could pass for 19 like this, but in a real estate way. In like a very natural way. This is what we're talking about.
- [40:02]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Thank you. I started young.
- [40:04]
Jill Dunn
Yes.
- [40:05]
Dr. Katherine Chang
On brand. Thank you.
- [40:06]
Jill Dunn
Tiny tweaks.
- [40:07]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yes. And starting early. So the Bijou is for my 20, 30 year olds who feel like they are seeing facial aging but don't have enough skin and don't qualify for a facelift and also have already tried all the conservative treatments like lasers, radio frequency, ultrasound based and skin tightening treatments. But they have soft tissue internal descent. So this is a one hour procedure. It's very quick. I make a small access incision in the scalp so it's hidden. Then I tunnel down and essentially do a mini deep plane facelift. And so I lift the soft tissue. But these patients, when you're 20, 30, you don't really have a lot of skin excess.
- [40:49]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [40:50]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Are starting to get descent of the SMAs, which is the internal layer that we want to lift. So you don't want to put incisions around the ears in somebody that you're not removing skin in.
- [41:01]
Jill Dunn
Now, would this be an alternative to threads? What, like a thread lift or a ponytail lift or whatever.
- [41:09]
Dr. Katherine Chang
It's a. A more permanent and better alternative to actually lift. I find that threads don't actually work, so not really an alternative. I think just people shouldn't. Just threads in general. Yes.
- [41:21]
Jill Dunn
Right. Right.
- [41:22]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah.
- [41:22]
Jill Dunn
Well, I just. The reason I thought of it is because when I. That was really the first time that I think we as beauty editors heard of people in their 20s and early 30s. Right. Remember when there was all this speculation.
- [41:35]
Carlene Higgins
Around coxeye lift and whatever.
- [41:37]
Jill Dunn
Exactly. We used to debate whether preventative Botox was really a thing. Now is it when we're talking about surgery.
- [41:46]
Dr. Katherine Chang
So I think the use of the word preventative is maybe not the correct word in the sense that doing it early doesn't mean it prevents you from needing a facelift down the road. But what I think early lifting does is there's a multitude of factors, but one, I think it allows you to enjoy the lift for longer. So a really key component of how long a lift lasts is how good your skin quality is. So if you have better skin quality, which everyone does when they're younger, because we know that collagen decreases by 1% in the face each year after the age of 25. So the younger you do it, the more collagen you have, which means the longer the lift will last. Two, your healing potential is better, so you recover more quickly. And then I think three, as opposed to waiting until you're 65 for your first lift, it's a less drastic difference, you know. So I think a smaller tweak, which you can enjoy for longer, is definitely much more appealing than waiting a long time feeling like you don't look how you feel on the inside for a long period of time, then doing the lift and then, you know, not Having it last as long as if you were to have done it earlier.
- [42:57]
Jill Dunn
Right. Because the quality of your skin is not as. Doesn't bounce back as quickly.
- [43:03]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Exactly. Okay. So it won't prevent you from needing a facelift down the road. But I think people are much happier so that the patients that I have who've waited for some time and after they get their lift, they routinely say, I wish I just did this a lot earlier.
- [43:17]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah. And if somebody comes to Beverly Hills to get a facelift, this sounds like something you would do in a movie. What are we getting? What are the extras you're getting?
- [43:26]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah. I mean, every practice is different, but with my practice, even if I wasn't in Beverly Hills, I think they would still get this, but they get really concierge care. So we really try to set up from beginning to end. We try to take care of and handle things for the patients. We get their scripts for them. We can get it delivered to their hotel. Especially for our, our out of town patients. We provide transportation from the after surgery to the hotel and then from the hotel to my office and then from my office to hyperbarics and from hyperbarics back to their hotel. It is typically in a Rolls Royce, which is nice.
- [43:57]
Jill Dunn
Wow.
- [43:58]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [43:58]
Dr. Katherine Chang
So this is what I'm talking about.
- [44:00]
Jill Dunn
Come on, girl.
- [44:01]
Carlene Higgins
You better. You need more than pennies. You need a jar full of loonies and toonies and a lot of hundred dollar box loonies and toonies.
- [44:10]
Jill Dunn
Our Canadian is. Is just being flaunted now, but okay.
- [44:16]
Dr. Katherine Chang
I've never even been in a role, but my patients have, which is nice. We don't allow people to drink post surgery. But. But if we could offer champagne, we would.
- [44:26]
Carlene Higgins
Right, Right. Yeah.
- [44:26]
Dr. Katherine Chang
And then they have, you know, 24 hour access to our team, to our clinical team.
- [44:31]
Carlene Higgins
Okay.
- [44:32]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Which usually people don't need, but at least, you know, we're there for them.
- [44:35]
Carlene Higgins
That peace of mind.
- [44:36]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yes. That you're.
- [44:37]
Carlene Higgins
That you're getting. I did want to ask you because I feel like a lot of people come to you for blepharoplasty and you've kind of pioneered this technique, have you not? Do we talk about this already?
- [44:47]
Jill Dunn
The cat eye?
- [44:47]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah. No, we haven't. I want to know about it.
- [44:50]
Dr. Katherine Chang
So I don't. I would say I don't do a specific cat eye. Exactly. Because I do think that tends to look a little too aggressive.
- [44:57]
Carlene Higgins
What do you call it?
- [44:58]
Dr. Katherine Chang
I actually just call it a straightforward blepharoplasty. But I think what I do, that's a little different. Well one, I think 99% of the people that come in are really worried about changing their eye shape. And so I think the key is not change again somebody's essence, which a lot of it comes from the eyes. So really maintaining the shape but accentuating it. And so I think one component of a blepharoplasty I don't like when I see these results are when the incision curves downwards.
- [45:32]
Carlene Higgins
And this is on the upper lilida.
- [45:35]
Dr. Katherine Chang
On the upper lip. Yeah. And so you. And I think this is, you know, love, love my male surgeon friends. Nothing against them, but I think one, one kind of benefit I have of being a female is that I do use eyeliner and you know, you know you want that kind of cat eye and what we call a positive cantho tilt, meaning the an eye typically looks more attractive when from the inner corner to the outer there's a slight tilt towards the outer. When it tilts downwards, it tends to look sad. And that's why, you know, with cat eye makeup, you know, it, it, the eyeliner goes upwards. And so when I'm designing my incisions, I design it so you get a slight flare at the end which kind of opens up the outer corner of.
- [46:19]
Carlene Higgins
The eye versus bringing diadost for that.
- [46:22]
Jill Dunn
Damn it.
- [46:23]
Carlene Higgins
Damn it. What about for people who don't want to go under the knife? They're not ready like me. What, what are you doing? What are you doing to see. Is there anything that's impressed you like with radio frequency or any other types of modalities that with.
- [46:39]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah, yeah. So I think it again depends on, on the face and what we're seeing. So if there's skin quality, you know, I think radio frequency is great. I love a CO2 laser. Yeah, I like PRP, PRF to the neck, micro actually basic microneedling I really love.
- [46:56]
Carlene Higgins
And then it does make a difference.
- [46:57]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah, it really does. And it's something that people kind of glaze over now because there's so many new devices out there. But I think that makes a huge difference. I think consistency is key. So even with the lasers, I laser my face probably every six to eight weeks. I do PRF under my eyes probably I try to do every six weeks. I'm not always on time. So sometimes it's three, four months in between. But being consistent I think with, with like non surgical rejuvenation treatments is really important.
- [47:25]
Carlene Higgins
So like microneedling twice a year kind of thing or more, if you could.
- [47:28]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Do it more, I would do more.
- [47:30]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, I Know, the estheticians love the micro needling. I don't know, it really is great.
- [47:36]
Carlene Higgins
Like I. The pore size is so much better after. The acne marks are so much better after. It really is. All right, is there anything we haven't talked about today? And I know you're not trend based, but you're keeping your ear to the ground.
- [47:51]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah.
- [47:52]
Carlene Higgins
And always learning. So tell us.
- [47:54]
Dr. Katherine Chang
I think, you know, one area that most people come in early for men and women is the eye area. And it's a common area that gets neglected, but it's often because the skin is thinner. It's the often the place in the face that people see aging the most the soonest. So being, you know, mindful of, you know, eye creams, I think are really helpful. Making sure you're using tretinoin and retinol based products is important. I do love kind of early Botox around the eyes. You know, I think there was a lot of, you know, debate over whether or not it's preventative, but I actually think it is. I think early treatment around the eyes with Botox and then early treatment with blepharoplasty is really key. And I'm doing a lot of that job. Even like late 20s.
- [48:43]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [48:44]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah. So late 20s, early 30s.
- [48:46]
Jill Dunn
Right. Okay. Easier to get in front of it than treat it after the fact, right?
- [48:52]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yes. And especially for the eyes. Just like the face, as you get excess skin on the eyes, it'll crowd on this outer corner. So if you do it early, you have less crowding here, which means you can keep your incision shorter. So if you wait too long, you have excess skin not over the actual eyelid out here. You now have to take your incision out, which will look more obvious down the road.
- [49:16]
Jill Dunn
This woman is an absolute pro. Our last question for you. What are the three post surgery or cosmetic enhancement products that you can't live without?
- [49:27]
Dr. Katherine Chang
So this is going to sound very basic.
- [49:30]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [49:30]
Dr. Katherine Chang
But I actually think everyone should keep Vaseline at home. I think Vaseline is a really key product, especially for people that have overly sensitive skin. So while I use very specific post procedure creams after lasers, if someone's allergic, I always just put them on Vaseline. So that's one definitely. My naked beauty MD eye masks and now face masks. But these were initially developed for my patients post procedure. So after their eye procedures, whether or not it was surgical or not. So even after PRF under the eyes, microneedling lasers, but surgery patients were using them to minimize swelling, decreased recovery time. But then patients started to use them, you know, and continuously use them after their procedures and they kept telling me how, you know, great, it worked. And so we ended up doing a third party blinded study, double blinded study. And then after one week of use with 94 participants, so 188 under eyes. We saw 97% improvement in the under eyes.
- [50:30]
Jill Dunn
I really do notice a difference with those. Anything else that's great for post, post surgery or post cosmetic treatments. That's just like a must have.
- [50:39]
Dr. Katherine Chang
I love anything with growth factors and peptides in it.
- [50:41]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [50:42]
Dr. Katherine Chang
So just, you know, I think growth factors and peptides we're going to be seeing a lot more of in our products.
- [50:48]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, it's crazy.
- [50:49]
Carlene Higgins
I, I definitely think they're legit.
- [50:52]
Jill Dunn
What's the brand that has made the grade with you where maybe you've looked at their studies or whatnot?
- [50:57]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah, there's a few. But right now I do like tns. Yep, it is pricey. So for some people it's, you know, it might be a little tricky, but I do think it, it works.
- [51:10]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [51:11]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Yeah. Great.
- [51:12]
Carlene Higgins
Well, thank you so much for spending time with us, enlightening us. We will be getting our consultations, but thank you honestly so much for spending time. We know how in demand you are and we really learned so much. So thank you.
- [51:27]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Oh thank you both for having me.
- [51:28]
Carlene Higgins
Thank you.
- [51:28]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Such a great conversation.
- [51:29]
Carlene Higgins
This is great.
- [51:30]
Jill Dunn
Thank you. Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog@breakingbeautypodcast.com While.
- [51:41]
Carlene Higgins
You'Re there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a.
- [51:47]
Jill Dunn
Single thing and get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast and did you know.
- [51:55]
Carlene Higgins
We also have a podcast private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.
- [51:59]
Jill Dunn
You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302.
- [52:07]
Carlene Higgins
And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.
- [52:17]
Jill Dunn
See you.
- [52:36]
Dr. Katherine Chang
Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.