Trendless, Ageless Everyday Makeup Secrets Revealed with Look Good, Feel Good Makeup Artist Katey Denno

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast Summary Episode: Trendless, Ageless Everyday Makeup Secrets Revealed with Look Good, Feel Good Makeup Artist Katey Denno
Release Date: February 19, 2025
Hosts: Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins
Guest: Katie Deno, Celebrity Makeup Artist

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Introduction to Clean Beauty

In this episode, hosts Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins welcome renowned makeup artist Katie Deno to discuss her expertise in clean beauty and everyday makeup techniques. Katie, known for her work with A-list celebrities such as Olivia Wilde and Mindy Kaling, emphasizes the importance of clean beauty—a growing trend focused on non-toxic, ethically produced makeup products.

Katie Deno [02:12]:
"Clean beauty is almost like table stakes at this point. My friends are constantly asking if a product is clean, and tools like the Yuka app are making it easier to determine."

Evolving Definition of Clean Beauty

Katie explains that the definition of clean beauty is continuously evolving, influenced by advancements in product formulations and consumer awareness. She highlights the importance of distinguishing between truly beneficial ingredients and marketing gimmicks.

Jill Dunn [02:33]:
"While there's a lot of misinformation out there, following someone like Katie who genuinely tests these products can help separate the greats from the gimmicks in clean beauty."

Skincare Preparation for Flawless Makeup

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around skincare routines that create the perfect canvas for makeup. Katie and Carlene delve into nighttime skincare habits that enhance skin hydration and texture, ensuring makeup sits smoothly and lasts longer.

Carlene Higgins [09:30]:
"All it really does is prepare the canvas. If your skin isn't plump and hydrated, makeup will just sit on top rather than integrating seamlessly."

They emphasize the use of mists, moisturizers, and oils to lock in moisture and maintain skin elasticity. Proper skincare not only benefits overall skin health but also minimizes fine lines and provides a natural glow.

Foundation Application Techniques

Katie shares her preferred methods for applying foundation to achieve a natural, effortless look. She advocates for using fingers to blend foundation, allowing for better control and a more seamless finish compared to brushes.

Katie Deno [27:26]:
"I find that using fingertips allows me to achieve a more effortless finish. Brushes can sometimes leave visible strokes, whereas fingers blend the product more naturally."

Mastering Concealer and Color Correctors

The podcast addresses common misconceptions about concealer. Katie advises using color correctors to neutralize under-eye darkness before applying concealer, which prevents the cakey appearance often associated with heavy makeup.

Carlene Higgins [32:36]:
"Using a color corrector is essential for the perfect under-eye cover. It minimizes the amount of concealer needed, reducing the risk of a cakey look."

She recommends brands like Fit Glow Beauty and Exa by Credo for effective color correctors tailored to different skin tones.

Defining Features: Brows and Lips

Katie and Carlene discuss the significance of well-defined brows and natural-looking lips in achieving a youthful appearance. They suggest filling in brows with lighter shades and using lip liners to enhance lip shape without overdoing it.

Carlene Higgins [55:10]:
"One of the most youth-infusing things you can do is to refill your brows. As we age, facial muscles pull brows downward, so lifting them can restore a youthful look."

They recommend Kosas pencils for brow definition and emphasize blending lip liner for a seamless, natural finish.

Choosing the Right Makeup Tools

The conversation highlights the importance of selecting appropriate makeup tools to complement different application techniques. While brushes are necessary for certain areas, fingers remain indispensable for blending and achieving a soft finish.

Carlene Higgins [27:26]:
"Fingers are fantastic for blending eyeshadows because they provide a more natural look. However, for precision tasks like lining or contouring, brushes are indispensable."

Product Recommendations

Throughout the episode, Katie and Carlene mention several clean beauty brands and products they swear by:

• Ohi Wild Face Mist: Enhances skin hydration and prepares it for makeup.
• True Botanicals Clear Oil: Maintains clear skin by preventing breakouts.
• Ritual Defy Foundation: Offers a lightweight, buildable coverage suitable for all skin types.
• Swede Supernatural Radiance Serum: Provides a luminous finish without mattifying the skin.
• Kosas Lip Pencils: Ideal for natural lip enhancement with a range of shades.
• RMS Blush: Known for its high pigmentation and seamless blend.

Final Tips for Effortless Makeup

Katie concludes with practical advice for maintaining makeup throughout the day. She suggests using hydrating mists and minimal layers to keep the makeup looking fresh and natural. Additionally, understanding one’s skin type and adjusting product application accordingly can prevent common issues like pilling and dryness.

Katie Deno [34:15]:
"The key to effortless makeup is minimalism—using the right amount of product and ensuring it integrates well with your skin. This approach not only looks natural but also feels comfortable all day long."

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Key Takeaways

• Clean Beauty: Focus on non-toxic, ethically produced makeup that benefits skin health.
• Skincare Foundation: Proper skincare routines enhance makeup application and longevity.
• Application Techniques: Utilizing fingers for blending and minimal layers for a natural finish.
• Defining Features: Well-groomed brows and natural lip enhancement contribute to a youthful look.
• Tool Selection: Balance between brushes and fingers to achieve precision and softness.
• Product Choices: Opt for high-quality, clean beauty products that align with personal skin needs.

Katie Deno’s insights offer a blend of expert makeup techniques and a commitment to clean beauty, providing listeners with valuable knowledge to enhance their everyday beauty routines.

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Notable Quotes:

• Katie Deno [02:12]:
  "Clean beauty is almost like table stakes at this point."

• Carlene Higgins [09:30]:
  "All it really does is prepare the canvas."

• Katie Deno [27:26]:
  "I find that using fingertips allows me to achieve a more effortless finish."

• Carlene Higgins [32:36]:
  "Using a color corrector is essential for the perfect under-eye cover."

• Carlene Higgins [55:10]:
  "One of the most youth-infusing things you can do is to refill your brows."

• Katie Deno [34:15]:
  "The key to effortless makeup is minimalism."

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For more detailed insights and product links mentioned in this episode, visit the Breaking Beauty Podcast website or follow them on Instagram at @BreakingBeautyPodcast.

Transcript

[Carlene Higgins]

The following podcast is a dear media production.

[Jill Dunn]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty the podcast, all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.

[Katie Deno]

We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

[Jill Dunn]

Welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast, everyone. It's Wednesday, so it's Carlene and Jill here in your feeds once again. Hello, Jill.

[Katie Deno]

Hey, Carlene. And longtime listeners know us as two magazine beauty editors turned to beauty podcasters who chat each and every week about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes, and some weeks we're reviewing products like the damn good drugstore episode we did at the beginning of this month where we served up our picks that are all less than $30. You can go back and check that out if you haven't already. To interviewing the top pros in skincare, hair care and makeup artistry to get their very best tips for improving your everyday beauty routine.

[Katie Deno]

And today, we're thrilled to be chatting with the incredibly talented Katie Deno, a career celebrity makeup artist known for her fresh, modern approach to beauty and makeup. And I think a lot of people might know her on Instagram as reviewing a lot of clean, quote unquote makeup products. And she's put all of those products to the test on a lot of famous faces because she's worked with major A list talent like Olivia Wilde, Judith Light, Mindy Kaling, Aaron Foster, the writer and producer from Nobody Wants this, and model Quanah Chasing Horse. The list goes on.

[Jill Dunn]

Everyone she works with looks so gorgeous and effortlessly put together. And that's the type of energy we want to tap into in today's episode. Now, I know what a lot of our listeners might be thinking because we never usually talk about quote unquote clean beauty, but that really is what Katie is about. She's really dedicated her career to test driving these products, kind of separating the greats from the gimmick mix as, as we do here with, yeah, at Breaking Beauty, but strictly in the clean beauty zone. So what does that mean? It's an ever evolving conversation. What do you think these days, Jill?

[Katie Deno]

I mean, I think that you and I haven't. We've definitely evolved me. It's almost like table stakes at this point. I think the reality is I just, my friends alone are the ones asking me, is this product clean? Is this product clean? It's like it's in the vernacular. I just did a couple of TV segments. First question the host asked me before we went to air, is everything here clean?

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Katie Deno]

And I just, it's just in the vernacular and I don't know if any of Your friends are obsessed with the Yuka app, but all of my girlfriends are using it. And it's an, it's an app where you scan food, you scan makeup, you scan skin care, and it tells you if it's quote, unquote clean or not. And this is a, it's out of France. It's kind of a 2.0 of that think dirty app idea. Me, I'm always a little bit skeptical of everything, but I'm just saying, yeah, appetite, quote for quote unquote clean is out there.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, absolutely. And, and as we said, this is an ever evolving conversation and I know in a few weeks we're going to be speaking to a scientist and we're going to be digging into what clean beauty means from a scientific point of view. But until then, we all have a general understanding in our mind. And, you know, while there might be a lot of like misinformation and marketing around it out there, if you are somebody who shops specifically clean beauty and that's your choice, then Katie Duno is somebody you definitely want to be following on Instagram. And just the esthetic, it's this timeless, ageless, realistic ways that you can kind of up your beauty game. And that's what we're going to be digging into with Katie today.

[Katie Deno]

It's that effortless and put together vibe without being boring. It's more of those timeless confidence boosting makeup tricks, like how to know is your foundation right for you should you get rid of it, move on to something new, blush placement that looks current. What else is, you know, popping off for mascara in 2025?

[Jill Dunn]

Absolutely. And now I wasn't there for this conversation, unfortunately, this is one of those ones I had to miss. But I love Katie from afar and I understand that she actually brought her makeup and skincare faves into the studio with her gel. Is that, is that right? Do we have pictures of all this stuff?

[Katie Deno]

There's a bag where she's. It was a bag of tricks and there were so many products I had never heard of before. And she was swatching. There was like skincare prep musts, which I am always interested in. And I think that that is something getting your base right as you know, you're not 20 anymore, but getting it right and looking. I think that that is such a clutch thing that a makeup artist. Can that makeup artists just know.

[Jill Dunn]

Absolutely.

[Katie Deno]

She was like sharing all of that with us. And I'm just so excited for everyone to hear this and of course see it because we're also publishing this episode over on our YouTube channel, which is Breaking Beauty Podcast. That's the handle.

[Jill Dunn]

I know. I'll be taking notes. So here she is, Katie Deno.

[Katie Deno]

Sa.

[Jill Dunn]

This episode is brought to you in part by Quince. So to know me is to know that I love designer items, but I never really pay retail. That's my secret. I love a consignment shop, I love a sample sale. And my latest find is Quince. Quince offers a range of high quality items at prices that are within reach. I'm talking about 100 Mongolian cashmere sweaters for around $50, washable silk tops and dresses, 14 karat gold jewelry and all. Quince items are priced about 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Now you might be thinking I don't support fast fashion and I totally get that. That's not what Quince is about. They partner directly with top factories and that cuts out the middleman and passes the savings onto us. In fact, Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing and premium fabrics and finishes. I love the aesthetic as well. It's very stealth wealth. If you want like the perfect beige cashmere sweater to wear with like a trouser and suede loafers, they've got that on lock and so many other closet staples that just you want to invest in for 2025. So give yourself the luxury you deserve with quince. Go to quince.combeauty for free shipping on your order plus 365 day returns. I love that. That's Q U I n c e.com/beauty to get free shipping and 365 day returns. I'll say it one more time. Quince.com/beauty get ready for your brand new wardrobe at a fraction of the price. And now back to the episode.

[Katie Deno]

Hi, I'm Lisa Rinna.

[Carlene Higgins]

And I'm Harry Hamlin.

[Katie Deno]

You may know me from Days of our Lives, Melrose Place, Real Housewives of.

[Carlene Higgins]

Bever Hills and I've been around for a while. Clash of the titans. LA Law.

[Katie Deno]

That's right.

[Carlene Higgins]

But there's a lot more to us than what you've seen on screen. Let me tell you. We've been together for over 30 years.

[Katie Deno]

We have some crazy stories to tell. And on this podcast, we're going to own it, baby.

[Carlene Higgins]

We'll talk about everything from love to sex to pop culture to juicy behind the scenes stories we've never told before. You can listen to new episodes of our podcast, let's not Talk about the Husband every Friday.

[Katie Deno]

Follow the show wherever you get your podcasts. So you don't miss a thing. Welcome to Breaking Beauty Podcast. Katie, it's so nice to finally sit down with you in person. I know we've met before, many moons ago when you were working in, you know, all your celeb gigs during TIFF and everything. So welcome to the show.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thank you so much. It's a delight.

[Katie Deno]

What do you think is sort of the hallmark of an effortless makeup look?

[Carlene Higgins]

This is the question that everyone always asks.

[Katie Deno]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

I mean, an effortless makeup look across the board generally includes looking awake, looking healthy, looking refreshed, having your features defined. So it's however we get to that. And of course, with each face it's going to be different, but typically for me, it's a wide awake eye. So it's a curled lash with some mascara, perhaps something smudged into the lash line just to really emphasize that it's a brow. Because I mean, as much as we try to say otherwise, the brows define the face and really give good structure as well as do cheekbones. So something on the cheek, whether it's a pop of highlight, whether it's a blush, whether it's a contour, all done with a very subtle hand in my book. And whatever it is that makes your skin feel like the best version of your skin to me is, is like part of the clean girl hallmark esthetic. It's not, of course, like a piled on foundation look. It's not a matte, you know, powdered to the nth degree look. It's just your glowing, fresh self.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah, I love that. What's your secrets? All of these years in with skin prep, what's your like, ride or diesel go to is to get that base nailed.

[Carlene Higgins]

So it, it does of course all start with skincare, but it doesn't mean that it's skincare the morning of.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's nighttime skincare that prepares you for your makeup the next day. So all the talk about, you know, I spend 20 minutes doing gua sha and you know, 30 minutes with a layer of this moisturizer and this right before makeup prep for a red carpet. If you haven't already been prepping your skin a to be able to be its most plump, juicy self and also to receive all of that added moisture and hydration that it may not typically be able to, it's just going to sit on top of the skin. So it's really about preparing the canvas. And we hear this ad nauseam, preparing the canvas, but it really is. So I like the night before a good layer of mistake. I'm a huge Mr. Oh, are you into misting?

[Katie Deno]

Yes, but I don't know if I use them. Right. You know what I mean? I feel like they can, I can just, they. I can go a bit rogue with them, like maybe after a flight or something, but.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Katie Deno]

As part of like an everyday routine. Not really.

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, what I learned early on, maybe from Tata Harper during one of her fun events. I'm sure you do, was that if you don't have moisture on the face in the form of anything wet has a water component to it, the moisture that you put on, meaning an oil or a cream, is not going to penetrate as deeply. So misting the face and then using that time to massage in whatever you're going to put on your favorite moisturizer, cream, lotion, whatever you call it, whatever formulation it is, top that with an oil to really seal it in that the night before, hyaluronic acid, whatever you're doing the night before, prep, prep, prep. And that's just our every night. Right. So that then in the morning our skin is more plump, is more. We've had more blood flow because whatever we maybe we've put on a stimulating product of some sort, Peptides rich. And then the ne. And then the morning we can, we can use a much lighter amount of skincare. And that prepares the skin in a way that anything you put on top is not going to have difficulty with the whole slip sliding. That happens often. It's going to keep product from settling into fine lines a little bit more. It's going to keep the, you know, the appearance of fine lines at bay because the fine lines often are as a result of dryness. So then it depends on your skin texture and, and also whatever it is the look that you want to accomplish. So if you want, let's say you want a satin kind of finish, you're not looking to be super, you know, dewy. You're not looking to be matte 90s. It's going to be about using very thin layers. We've all heard this before of foundation strategically placed. Right. I've listened to all of your makeup artist podcasts and just a million other podcasts with makeup artists, and we all say the same thing. And I want people to know that we speak the truth. It is all about fine layers. Rather than doing like what I did as a child, which was to take Almay or corn silk thick foundation, spackle that on and then just push it in and then use a powder puff to put it on. Whoa.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

No wonder I looked like a Cake face and had acne. It's the thin layers that really give you the, you know, mimicking of natural skin and allows you to have that light bounce with while still showing some of your skin through.

[Katie Deno]

So what's your favorite? I'm just gonna pause for a moment. What's your go to like three step nighttime skincare routine for yourself?

[Carlene Higgins]

Right now in my mind I'm opening my. We redid our house and of course I put the largest of all vanities in. Let me put open that. So I. Right now I have. And I brought it. Should I show you?

[Katie Deno]

Yeah, bring it up. I love it. I brought show and tell everyone.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yay. Who doesn't like that? So I'm a huge fan of mists. This is one that I'm super into. Ohi Wild. Beautiful brand. The founder is in Ojai, California. Haven't been there. You have to go to her farm. And. And this is. I mean, I'm not much of a like a woo woo kind of person, but I have experienced the powerful benefits of flower essences, which almost makes me sound like too far. Woo woo.

[Katie Deno]

But we need all the woo we can get in this day and age, honestly.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. I appreciate hearing you say that. Yes. So this is a brand that is part Ohi Wilds. Partnered with a brand called Aten Ray who makes flower essences. They've partnered up to make this beautiful face mist. So I start with face mist. Oops. Start with a face mist. And then loving this one. I have like maybe three or four creams on rotation. I'm using one from a Manuka honey. That's the name of the company they source from New Zealand honey. It's, I mean, it's like the most magical story of their brand. I've been using that. I've been using Alpin. Do you know that one? Love their vitamin C bounce texture cream. It's so rich and yummy. Josh Rosebrook.

[Katie Deno]

Yes. Amazing products.

[Carlene Higgins]

Peptide rich formulas. Sahajan. I mean, I'm just really obsessed with creams. Especially at this. I'm almost 50. Like I need all the moisture I can get.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So I'll massage that in, do another round of misting. Yeah. And then press an oil on top. True. Botanicals has long since been one of my go tos. I rarely break out anymore. And I think it's because I've been really consistent with their clear oil.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And that has helped to keep breakouts at bay. So those, those are my main number. You know, my short evening routine, short list.

[Katie Deno]

Okay. And then in the morning, what do you put on your face?

[Carlene Higgins]

I'll also say I don't wash in the morning.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Because. And I think that I used to do. Well, I know I used to do that. And then it would dry me out.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

One of my favorite facialists in town is this woman named Jeanette at being in L. A And she. Such a good name drop hint there. She. Oh, she cured my acne.

[Katie Deno]

Really?

[Carlene Higgins]

When I went to her, I basically had a beard of acne. Would not go away. I think it was from using too many things and not exfoliating enough.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

So she got me onto her. It's her cacao. Just. What is it called? Shoot. Of course I'm gonna have a brain lapse. Jeanette being an. Anyway, she. She has. She.

[Katie Deno]

It's her own brand.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And the brand is called Jeanette's All Natural Skincare.

[Katie Deno]

Oh, okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

So she has these two little soaps and which make it travel really easy. So instead of washing. Instead of washing my whole face, I will use her soap. If I'm having any, like, potential breakout areas, I'll use her green tea soap or her just add. Yep. Can't remember it. Just add something. I'll use one of her two soaps on whatever potentially problem areas. And the rest I just splash a little water on.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

To keep moisture levels high.

[Katie Deno]

Okay. I'm on her website right now. It's an exfoliator.

[Carlene Higgins]

You said it's a soap. So, yeah, she has these two. They're very cute. So many of my celebrity clients use them because it's so easy to travel with. And if you feel a breakout coming on, I mean, 100%. I can't tell you how many of my clients who have contracts with major con, you know, companies, skincare companies, they use her stuff because it really works and keeps breakouts a bit.

[Katie Deno]

Okay, the tea. We've. We've heard it here.

[Carlene Higgins]

For real.

[Katie Deno]

I'm on her website right now. There's two soaps.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Katie Deno]

One is called just add sugar.

[Carlene Higgins]

Sugar. That was the word I was like.

[Katie Deno]

Just add sugar. The cacao herb infused soap bar.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Katie Deno]

Just like it looks like white.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's a square. So it used to be a heart.

[Katie Deno]

Oh, there's a heart. Yes. I see the heart here. So cute.

[Carlene Higgins]

And you just rub it on wherever your breakout or potential breakout is and then leave it on for a minute and then rinse it off. And then the green tea.

[Katie Deno]

Yes, it's green tea super food facial bar.

[Carlene Higgins]

That one.

[Katie Deno]

It looks like a leaf.

[Carlene Higgins]

It looks Like a leaf. She makes them herself. I'm really into.

[Katie Deno]

That's awesome.

[Carlene Higgins]

Like the smaller brands that I know what the ingredients are because they tell me 100. So I'll use that if I'm having any problem areas or if I happen to get a little oily, but otherwise just splash a little water on. And then again I'll use a mist.

[Katie Deno]

Again.

[Carlene Higgins]

I have so many different mists from OC it to Josh Rosebrook to true botanicals.

[Katie Deno]

Like, and these are hydrating masks mists, not makeup setting mists.

[Carlene Higgins]

Totally different.

[Katie Deno]

Exactly.

[Carlene Higgins]

Makeup setting mists is interesting because makeup setting mists now in the clean realm are very hydrating. So I'm like the difference between a mist like I've just described in a. In a. Like a post. Makeup mist are nominal. Are very minimal in the non clean beauty world.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

The makeups that I missed are like basically hairspray or shellac for your face.

[Katie Deno]

Oh, yeah. I smell it and sometimes I just don't care. I'll just wear it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Absolutely.

[Katie Deno]

I'm like, bring it on. It's hairspray from my face and I'm leaning in 100.

[Carlene Higgins]

And. And although I am the clean beauty makeup artist on for red carpet jobs, I often will finish with that. Because you need that to lock.

[Katie Deno]

That's right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Product in.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So, okay. So yeah, that's not what I'm using in my morning ro. But after my mist, I'll generally use. There's this company that makes. Oh, my gosh. This is one of my favorite products. It's an exfoliating serum. It's the brand is called version and the founder created it during her pregnancy.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

It is. So during pregnancy is one of the top times that people look for me. What can I use that's good for myself and my baby? And I'm like, all these products are great for you all the time, but I'm glad you got me now.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah. That's when the discovery or the journey starts, right?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, yeah. That or like a health scare. But those are the two main.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So version it is an exfoliating serum that is so gentle, yet the most effective. So I've, you know, a redhead skin. Like my skin doesn't love retinol, but I've forced it to over the years.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

But I always have the telltale retinol. Like constant flaking irritation. My skin is a little sensitive. So with this line, this product, I don't have any of that. I just have constantly glowy face. Oh, yes.

[Katie Deno]

Okay. Goals.

[Carlene Higgins]

I have some of that on followed by whatever moisturizer. Sometimes I need something really heavy. I go with like Josh Rose Brooks Vital Balm and then a tiny bit of oil.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

I let that bake like I let all that sit. Because I'm not terribly oily. Well, because I'm dry as a bone I should say. But not oily at all. I don't do what I often do on clients. So if you're oily and you've just put all of this moisturizer on your face and oil, then I would take a blotting paper, take off whatever hasn't soaked in and then put on your spf.

[Katie Deno]

Smart.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. So my SPF go to now probably for the rest of my life. I hope to God they don't discontinue it. Is the rms. Do you know this one?

[Katie Deno]

Oh, show it, show it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Katie Deno]

I never tried her spf.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh my gosh.

[Katie Deno]

I love all of her makeup though.

[Carlene Higgins]

Ditto.

[Katie Deno]

By the way. We've had RMS on our show. We interviewed her in a hotel room and we got under the covers with her.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh my gosh.

[Katie Deno]

I don't know.

[Carlene Higgins]

I've seen that.

[Katie Deno]

It was way it was back in the day. She was like maybe the 2017. But oh yeah, she's just the best.

[Carlene Higgins]

She is. She's often had me on for just all the, all sorts of, you know, co hosting things and she's like, you need to be there to curtail me so that I don't go off the rails. But yeah, this, I don't know, I'm showing it as if.

[Katie Deno]

No, you can show. That's the camera.

[Carlene Higgins]

This stuff. Whenever anybody stops me and says what's on your face, why you look like you're not wearing foundation but your skin is glowy. It's this.

[Katie Deno]

Okay. The name of it is let's.

[Carlene Higgins]

Let's share Supernatural Radiance Serum.

[Katie Deno]

Okay. Yeah, it's SPF.

[Carlene Higgins]

SPF 30. Sometimes I will mix this. Like this is my everyday. If I'm out in the sun, if like I'm on a travel job or something, I mix this with odacitate.

[Katie Deno]

Oh yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Love their foundation. Sunscreens. Okay. I mean they call them tinted moisturizers but for someone who doesn't wear foundation on the like a heavy foundation on the regular, that to me like could go on as much as interesting medium to. Well, I shouldn't say full but a medium foundation. So I'll mix the two and get it a flawless finish.

[Katie Deno]

I really trust redhead SPF mechanic.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thank you.

[Katie Deno]

Recommendations as you should. Thank you. Lumi is one of our show partners this week so I've always wanted to try Lumi and it really is the brand, in my opinion that kicked off the whole body deodorant movement. The you know, the body deodorants that you can use anywhere your pits, your privates and beyond. And the reason I was so interested is because it is created by an OB GYN who saw firsthand how normal BO was being misdiagnosed and mistreated. I feel like so many people can be self conscious around bo, so I really appreciate that an OB GYN is out here and providing products that can make everybody feel their most confident. So Lumi, they have a lot of different whole body deodorant options. I have the solid deodorant stick. That one's my favorite. It's formulated and powered by mandelic acid to stop odor before it begins and there's a variety of scents to choose from. I personally like the toasted coconut option and all products are baking soda free and paraben free and PH balanced so they're safe for use anywhere on your body. So Lumi Starter Pack is perfect for new customers. It comes with a solid stick deodorant cream tube deodorant, two free products of your choice like a mini body wash and deodorant wipes and free shipping. And that's not all. As a special offer for listeners, new customers get 15% off all Lumi products with our exclusive code. And if you combine the 15% off with the already discounted starter pack, that equals over 40% off their starter pack. Run, don't walk. So use code beauty for 15% off your first [e-mail] that's code beauty@ L U M E D E o d o R-A-T.com Please support the show and tell them that we sent you smell fresher, stay drier and boost your confidence from head to toe with lumi. Once again, lumideodorant.com to save 15 off your first purchase with our Code Beauty. We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website.

[Jill Dunn]

This episode is brought to you in part by Nutrafol. So I've been on my perimenopause journey for a couple of years now and one of the things that I've definitely noticed is hair thinning in the front. I actually first notice when I was doing content creation and I could see when I was watching the video back that I had some thinning there in the front. So I didn't feel great about it and I started taking Nutrafol. What I noticed was a difference in hair shedding in the shower that I had less of it. And that's why it's been recommended by so many guests on our show. In fact, Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people. And that's because you can see thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedd just three to six months with neutral fall. And one of the things that I appreciate is that while a lot of supplement brands rely on ingredient studies, Neutral clinically tests the final formulations to make sure that they actually work. And in one clinical study, 86% of women reported improved hair growth after taking Nutrafol Women hair growth supplement for six months. So it's physician formulated, but it's 100% drug free, so you don't need a prescription. And I definitely, definitely recommend purchasing a subscription online because you get free shipping. Plus with the neutral subscription you can save up to 20% off, which is super helpful. There's all kinds of extra benefits as well, like a headspace meditation membership that really helps with stress. We could all use that. So start your hair growth journey with Neutral. For a limited time, Neutral is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you go to neutr fall.com and enter the promo COD BREAKING. So find out why over 4, 500 healthcare professionals and stylists recommend Neutrophil for healthier hair. Neutral.com spelled N u T R-A F o L.com promo code BREAKING that's Nutrafol.com promo code BREAKING.

[Katie Deno]

Okay, this is such great intel and thank you for the show and tell. By the way everyone, we're going to publish this on YouTube so you can watch everything that Katie is talking about. So I also wanted to ask you about like a skin product that you think just kind of like fights with makeup or like you think beyond the obvious, which is oil that could make things slip and slide. What do you see? People kind of a mistake maybe people are making or what do you think?

[Carlene Higgins]

One of the things that happens to me at work a lot, I'll say to my client, what do you have on their skin? And they're like nothing. It's not nothing. When you put a serum that has hyaluronic acid on it. Okay, so hyaluronic acid competes with anything you put on top of it other than, I mean, if you put a mist on, you're great if you put a tiny bit of like an oil based gel moisturizer on, you're great. But oils on top of that.

[Katie Deno]

Interesting.

[Carlene Higgins]

So that means if I go straight in with an oil or with a foundation, I'm going to get those little pills which once you've got a face that's breaking, you know the. Basically that beautiful seamless look with little pills, you're done for.

[Katie Deno]

So that, so that's like a lesson you've probably learned the hard way because you gotta, you've gotta ask and they're like nothing and then.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. So that has been nightmare countless times. Often I'll take like a cure or Odacitae, either of those. Both of those brands have great. Just very simple, like micellar water.

[Katie Deno]

Right, right.

[Carlene Higgins]

And I'll cleanse a face with the cotton, you know, like reusable cotton pad and start again.

[Katie Deno]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. You can't have the pilling on the red carpet. Not on Katie's watch. No.

[Jill Dunn]

No.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's brutal. Yeah. I've been lied to many times. Nothing. Nothing's on my face.

[Katie Deno]

Let's talk a bit about makeup tools because I feel like there's makeup art who really achieve the most effortless looks and they're just using their fingertips a lot of the time. So do you subscribe to this or what tools do you use to get that effortless kind of finish as a makeup wearer?

[Carlene Higgins]

So I'm going to speak to that. I think fingers are awesome.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

There are some things that you have to use brushes for, undoubtedly, but for fingers, I mean, for, let's say even for eyeshadows.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

I brought an eyeshadow palette to show.

[Katie Deno]

I want to see.

[Carlene Higgins]

This is a, a brand new launch. I know. I don't even think I'm gonna guess. You haven't seen it unless you look at my Instagram stories every day, cuz.

[Katie Deno]

Ooh, it kind of looks spaceshippy.

[Carlene Higgins]

I know that's what I said to you when they sent it to me. It's sexy. It's called. It's from a brand called Aurora Mexico. And the founder. Co founder is such a delight. So when I, when I first saw this. Colorful. Right. So first of all, it's his. He worked for years for one of the biggest makeup houses and he left to start the most sustainable packaging. So it's all metal chic. Af.

[Katie Deno]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

And to infuse color. So he's Lebanese living in Mexico, his co founder is Mexican. And they said, why doesn't clean beauty have fun? So here it is. The most Gorgeous. Yeah.

[Katie Deno]

Can you show it to this camera so everyone can see it? Yeah, it's like a magenta on Eve Klein blue. Like it's like a russet kind of orange. A silver gold. Like you definitely do not.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Katie Deno]

Look at that and think clean beauty.

[Carlene Higgins]

I know, right? But you should.

[Katie Deno]

And that's.

[Carlene Higgins]

I've been waiting for this forever. There's a line called Johnny Concert who does.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

A bunch of bold colors. But this takes it to another level for me. And so maybe you'd think I would say for this you need brushes.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

But you don't.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

So they're buttery, soft, amazing formulations. Kind of like aether beauty.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Which has had a comeback.

[Katie Deno]

Okay, good.

[Carlene Higgins]

Which is great. Yeah. But they. The color payoff. I don't know if you can see that from here.

[Katie Deno]

It looks like a Mac eyeshadow payoff wise.

[Carlene Higgins]

Exactly. So for me it's all about swiping this on the lower lid or not. You know, the part of the lid that's closest to the lash line and then using the clean finger to just blend it in. And so I've been wearing all of these on repeat depending upon what I'm wearing. I've been putting them on my clients.

[Katie Deno]

The shades are amazing and the wear is good.

[Carlene Higgins]

The wear is amazing. Honestly, it's like an all day. I mean, you know, nothing in clean beauty will ever compete with the plasticizers that are in mainstream to keep it on. But like. Oh, you'll see at the end of this.

[Katie Deno]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

I'll keep touching it and you'll see it'll still be on.

[Katie Deno]

Oh, that's so cool. I know. So fingertips for the. The eyes and typically for. Because sometimes I find when I'm trying to do an effortless look, I might like. Oh my God. I can still see brush strokes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Like.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah. Cuz I find like a sheerer formula often will. I find it harder to blend sometimes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Absolutely.

[Katie Deno]

So what do you do?

[Carlene Higgins]

So okay, brushes are. I only really use brushes if I'm doing like pointillism kind of work. You know, like you have a blemish or a spot of some sort to cover up. I'm going to use a super fine like tiny little eyeliner pencil brush. You've heard that a million times. Times before. If I want to smash something into the lash line and only the lash line, I'm using a brush if I am doing. Yeah. Everything else I can accomplish with fingers. Everything.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

That be said, I do like. So I can apply stuff with fingers.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

But often the Blending of it so that it doesn't have marks is extremely seamless. Can happen with fluffy brushes.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

I've got a lot of various sizes of fluffy brushes so that I can accomplish that blending. Monica Blunder, who's another makeup artist, she made a beautiful line of product.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And her foundation brush is a go to blender for me.

[Katie Deno]

Really?

[Carlene Higgins]

And it's a nice small size, so it can be your contour blending brush. Because there's nothing that I want to see less than. Yeah, look, I've drawn in my cheekbone or I've drawn it. Yeah, no, let's just seamless that.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

So, yeah, brushes for those kinds of things. And you're gonna accomplish that with a liner, really? Anyway, yeah. The only time I would take a brush to the lip would be is. And we all have it, a little bit of peach fuzz or hair, like on the perimeter of our lip. And we're doing an overdrawn lip.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

You may want to take a brush and just really make sure you've mashed that lip liner in so that it's as seamless as possible. Because we're all over drawing our lips these days.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah. The lip, the lip over line is definitely having a moment now. When I think of effortless makeup, I want to be the girl who only wears, like, concealer, mascara, lipstick, like Nikki Taylor in a 90s CoverGirl ad. So let's talk about concealer a little bit, because I think it is often what people. A lot of people will say. I don't wear foundation, so they just want to have. They want to nail it with the concealer. So what's the trick to making it look effortless? Is it about the texture, the finish, finish, stick versus liquid? There's just so many choices, and I feel like it's very overwhelming.

[Carlene Higgins]

Even to me, it's overwhelming. I get, you know, you do the packages from all the beauty brands, and I'm like, okay, all of you are making basically the same thing. It's going to take me bright lights, lots of different faces in front of me to really decode what the differences in the formulas are.

[Katie Deno]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

So if you're looking to do an under eye cover for me, hands down. Yeah. Like, I was against this in the beginning of my career because I was like, one more product you don't need.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

But it is the difference between a. The perfect under eye versus the oh, I could have done better. And that is a color corrector.

[Katie Deno]

Oh, interesting. And so that's worth it.

[Carlene Higgins]

It really is. Even for. Even for the real people like, not on the red carpet, but if. Especially if it's a big day, you're going to have a photo taken. Whatever it is. So imperative to. This isn't true if you don't have dark circles, but like, 75% of us have dark circles. Right. If your issue is more so bags, I've got bags and dark circles. You're going to want to strategically place that color corrector. So there's. There's a brand called Fit Glow Beauty and Clean Beauty. I love them. There's a brand called Exa, which is Credo's house brand. They both have color correctors that I really think are fabulous. So you're looking for, depending upon your skin tone, they've got a pale pink, they've got an eyebright which is a little more yellow. They've got a straight up peach, which I usually go for the peach or the pink or the deeper orange. Deep dark skin can take an orange lipstick and get that real brightening under the eyes. And then. And you want to put the most minuscule amount. And I'm talking minuscule, like pinhead kind of thing. Yeah, like a few dots of pinhead.

[Katie Deno]

Right, right.

[Carlene Higgins]

And then you're going to take your finger and it.

[Katie Deno]

Got it. Okay. And then even for effortless, because I almost think color corrector, that's. That's like a different level. But no, that's an effortless staple. In your opinion. It is.

[Carlene Higgins]

Because the amount of concealer that you need on top of that, and those formulas dry down more quickly, are not drying, but dry down so that you're not going to get the cakey lines. If you have lines under your eyes, everything ultimately, by midday is going to need a touch.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

So you're going to take your mist, you're going to go in the bathroom, you're going to miss yourself, and you're going to. To retouch.

[Katie Deno]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Maybe with a dampened and then wrung out in a towel beauty blender or maybe just your finger.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

And the amount that you've put on is so minuscule that it's going to look effortless when you put your concealer on top.

[Katie Deno]

Okay. Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Katie Deno]

So then your favorite concealer. Right. Now for under the eye, I'm digging.

[Carlene Higgins]

Ritual Defy, which is. Do you know this brand?

[Katie Deno]

I have, but I've only seen like, maybe eyeshadows or lip products initially.

[Carlene Higgins]

They were like, known for their eye stuff, so you probably saw those.

[Katie Deno]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

The one of the founders is a makeup artist, and it's two sisters and their formulas are incredible. And I love. I'm wearing on repeat. I'm like, how does it look right now after I've been up since 4? They're under a concealer. It's a great texture.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

I also really like Jillian Dempsey, another makeup artist.

[Katie Deno]

Great. Love her.

[Carlene Higgins]

She. I think her formula, I mean, to me, it emulates states. Clay Depot.

[Katie Deno]

Stop it right now.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Katie Deno]

Katie's just bringing all the tea. What? Okay. I think she might be sending us some of those products. So I'll get to put it on and test it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Please let me know what you think.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

It has been, for me, the closest to Clay Depot and clean. The only thing about it is, like, six months. You want to have used it up by the drying factor.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Real. So you want a fresh. You want a fresh one.

[Katie Deno]

Right. Okay, Interesting. Okay, Good tips. And in terms of that texture, is it like a stick? Like Cladipo. Okay. So how do you put a stick concealer under the eye versus a liquid?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Okay. A liquid. I would never go from the tube to my face.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

I mean, probably because cleanliness is grounded to my brain.

[Katie Deno]

But you're not putting the doe foot, like, right on the face.

[Carlene Higgins]

I'm not. I mean, you see it in every TikTok.

[Katie Deno]

Exactly.

[Carlene Higgins]

No, I mean, also, I don't get as much control. I want to use. Use my finger, so I know exactly how much. I'm going to touch it to the tip of the doe foot, and then I'm going to dot, dot, dot. And wherever your deepest, most receded area under eye is, is where you want to put it.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

If you have bags, typically underneath the bag is going to be receded as well as on top of the bag. We're all different shapes, and so you need to analyze where your. Where your fat pad has slid to. Where. Yeah. Where that depth is. And then really put the most. And by the most, I mean just a tiny bit on that part. That's the darkest.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

You know, typically or historically we've seen when you have a pimple and you. You put a concealer on it, basically you're spotlighting it. Even if it's the same color. Exactly. As your skin tone, you've been perfectly matched. You're spotlighting it, but under eye, because the nuance of color there and the way that light falls into that kind of cavern, it's a. It feels like somehow it's a little bit more forgiving. And so you want to make sure you get it in that area. You want to blend it Out. But you want to use something that's a little bit more. More. Has more orange or peach to combat that. So I think I just went off question.

[Katie Deno]

No, no, no. I was just asking about how you put the liquid on. Oh, right. Versus stick. Thank you.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, so, yeah, so that would be the liquid. Tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Tiniest bit. If it doesn't give you the effect that you want another tiny, tiny layer. The stick. I do the same thing. I don't go directly on because I want to warm it up on my finger first. So I'll over top of the stick, and then I'll press it in. And I'm using, like, the part of my finger that is the tiny has the tiniest footprint on my face.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

And then I'll use a clean finger to blend.

[Katie Deno]

Okay. And then what do you set with? Because I feel like that's where it goes off the rails.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. I do not set under the eyes with powder. Unless. So again, like, everybody's orbital area is different shaped. Someone I could put, you know, the same mascara on. I've had this conversation with so many other makeup artists. We're like, I love this mascara. Somebody else is like, I hated it Transfer as the other person's like, it's never transferred. It really depends on how. Couple things. It depends on the under eye shape and how it hits the lash when you blink. And maybe that mascara is transferring because your concealer is too emollient and you needed to set it because your under eye raise is raised enough just perfectly to meet that those lashes. And then for other people, those lashes will never touch skin.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So if you find that that is the case and you must set under the eyes, I'll use either. Ilia has a beautiful, just super sheer powder. They have translucent, but they also have a, I think a 01 and a 2. 1, 2, 3, and maybe 3, 4. And those can impart a tiny bit of color as well as just the most minute amount of silica powder to set. There's also a foundation. I hope I brought it. Yes.

[Katie Deno]

Perfect.

[Carlene Higgins]

Do you know this brand, Swede?

[Katie Deno]

Oh, yes. Yes. I've not tried it, but Carlene talks about it.

[Carlene Higgins]

I'm obsessed. I. Yes. I'm glad that you've got to try it. I'm glad Carlene has.

[Katie Deno]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

There. This is their miracle powder. I've tried all the colors on all skin t. Skin tones. It is exquisite.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Whenever I use this, my clients are like, I look like I have a filter on. Oh, it really does. It's crazy.

[Katie Deno]

So how many shades are there?

[Carlene Higgins]

Let me count. How many are in my kit? I think seven.

[Katie Deno]

Okay. Okay. Good number.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Yeah, it is a good number. And they're. And like. Like, they're a range. Each one, like, this is light, but I can also wear extra light. And if I want a little bit of color, I can wear that. Yeah, it's a. It's a nice range in that sense. And the formula is it's not a highlighter. In typical highlighter, like, unicorn block, whatever.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

It is everything. It's like light bounce of a baby.

[Katie Deno]

Oh, what?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, clip that. It's crazy.

[Katie Deno]

It's.

[Carlene Higgins]

It is similar. It's like, I. That's what I'm looking for all the time. And it's similar. I'll just go back to this. Like, these two products. Products.

[Katie Deno]

So the RMS and the Swede together.

[Carlene Higgins]

They really do give that light bounce as a baby. And then if you feel as though you've swirled on, it's like, reminiscent of. Oh, what's the name of the powder that everyone Wore in the 80s and 90s?

[Katie Deno]

Laura Mercier.

[Carlene Higgins]

No, Come on.

[Katie Deno]

The Mac one.

[Carlene Higgins]

No, no. It's like their bare minerals. Oh, bare minerals or mineral fusion? Mineral. No, bare minerals.

[Katie Deno]

Bare minerals is the foundation with the.

[Carlene Higgins]

With the powder with the swirly. Yeah, it's reminiscent of that, yet it is in no way mattifying. But if you've put a little too much on and you feel like you look dry, you take out your mist.

[Katie Deno]

To do your skincare mist on top.

[Carlene Higgins]

And then your dampened beauty blender.

[Katie Deno]

Okay. One tip that I got. I think maybe I went to a masterclass with makeup by Mario, and he was talking about a mistake a lot of people do with their concealer is they bring it right up to the lash line. And I don't know if I've ever heard, really, anybody ever articulate that before. I've seen a lot of makeup artists do it when I really thought about it, but that is where then you're. It's gonna cake under the eyes, right?

[Carlene Higgins]

It's gonna cake this. This skin under your eyes. So from the lash line down to about here is known as migratory skin as well. So whatever you've put on that skin begins to migrate up. So you're going to also end up with it in your eyes.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

You know, in small amounts. So everyone who complains about having, like, stuff in the corners of their eyes that they have to clean out, this is a surefire way to give yourself that and to interfere with. With your eyeliner. Your it'll begin to break down your mascara because there's emollients in that concealer that allows it to look like moving, breathing skin. And, and that's just going to move right into your, you know, expertly put eye makeup and eat it away. So yeah, you, like I was saying you want to put in the deepest cavernous part under your eye and if you experiment with only putting it right there and kind of feathering it with like a, you know, that clean finger elsewhere under your eye, you will find that even that is, is enough.

[Katie Deno]

Okay. Denday is one of our show partners this week. So you might remember last month we did a whole episode about the future of beauty. And what we talked a lot about in that conversation was how biotechnology is going to really transform skincare innovation. And one brand that is leading the charge on that front is Dende. Dende is a clean, clinical skincare brand powered by biotech to support skin health and longevity. And how they do this, they're really going after inflammation aging. So scientists understand that inflammation is a leading cause of skin aging. That can lead to your collagen and elastin breaking down. So Dende developed their proprietary ingredient to help combat inflammation. It's called naringenin. And naringenanin is 15 times more effective than niacinamide in preventing future damage to skin. So I was definitely taking notice of that. I actually emptied the Dende day cream. I really like that. And they're recently launched Line smoothing eye cream is a lightweight rejuvenating eye cream that is clinically proven to improve the look of fine lines and improve skin texture and smoothness. And it has a serum like texture which I enjoy. And it has a needle nosed applicator so you can really target the application around your eye area. So if you want to try Dende for yourself, Dende's offering 15 off to Breaking Beauty listeners at dende.com that's spelleD-E-I N--E.com and use prom promo code beauty to save 15 off. We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show. Now I wanted to ask about the freshest way to wear foundation in your opinion because if you have redness or you're just not the type of person who's just concealer. What's, what's your typical application method?

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, so for self use two foundations. If I'm going for an actual full foundation look like I don't, I mean the reasons why I can't even Think, because right now, like, I'm on camera and I'm not wearing full fit, but I know there are times that I want that, and. And for sure, others have asked for that. So two foundations for clients, I use three, but for two foundations, I use a lighter shade in the center.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And then I use something a little bit deeper to warm up the skin more on the perimeter. It's imperative for all skin tones. I learned this particularly from deeper skin tones. We are not a monochromatic face. And it ends up making. Even if it has been your look for a million years, it's like you're used to seeing yourself like that, but it's not a natural look to be one color. Sure, we can build in tone on tone with blush and bronzer, but still, to achieve that really natural look, the way that light hits you, if you put them all one color on, it's never going to look like you're like a real natural face. Natural skin.

[Katie Deno]

What's the go to foundation in your kit?

[Carlene Higgins]

It's also by Ritual defeat. I love them. It's called a three drop foundation. And I had been a devotee of Iliad Kosas. I loved Kiara Weiss's press foundation for years, even in their liquid foundation. So many. And then this one came out, and I was like, oh, inverted. Oh, it's just perfect for most skin type. I mean, I have yet to meet a skin type that it's not been good on.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And I heard. I watched Katie Jane Hughes post about it in which she said, three drops. Is that possible? One, two, three. And then she used a brush, I believe, and she was just like, three little liquid drops. And I have. You can build medium. I mean, it's not going to be like. Like an Estee Lauder extra long wearing. Yeah. Like, so take face. But it is giving full ability for full coverage.

[Katie Deno]

Wow. And how many shades is that?

[Carlene Higgins]

So many that I don't know.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's an extensive range.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

For makeup artists. They made little teeny, refillable bottles for us, per Hallelujah. So I have a. I have a whole little kit dedicated. I mean, it could be as many as 20.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's a lot.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And often.

[Katie Deno]

And to the deepest skin tones, like melon and rich. Everybody's covering great.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. And they really go olive and pink and. Yeah, they do a great job.

[Katie Deno]

I love that. It's.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's just.

[Katie Deno]

It's just at a different level when a makeup artist does it. Right, Agreed. And do you use that on the red carpet, like performance Wise, it's amazing performance wise personally.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes, it is amazing. I'll often then go in with. Have you heard of the brand Mob?

[Katie Deno]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

So Mob makes also beautiful everything again. So Mob was co founded by Vic Casale who was the founder of Mac.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So like he knows formulation and he also knows a full beat.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah, formulation. So true.

[Carlene Higgins]

If I need a little bit more than the ritual defeat is able to give me, let's say somebody has, you know, pregnancy mask melasma or terrible scarring from old acne or something on top of that ritual defeat or sometimes underneath it, you know, totally depends on the skin type, texture wise. But I will go in with that mob. I forget the name of their foundation.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know the foundation either, but.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, you've got to try it. It's a pan and so it's cream. I like to apply it with a brush like a cat tongue brush and then use a dampened beauty blender sponge to really mimic the look of skin. That is the. That's probably the heaviest of all and like most dense coverage. But you can shear the heck out of it and use it as concealer too.

[Katie Deno]

Say what now? About the brush. What did you call it?

[Carlene Higgins]

A cat tongue. I love that you said say what. Yeah, cat tongue. Have you never heard that song?

[Katie Deno]

Well, I know, I know what it means in like other contexts, but I've never heard it applied to a makeup brush.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, the shape of it I guess is why we call it that. Also called the flat, that foundation brush.

[Katie Deno]

Okay, okay, just clarifying everyone. So we know because I feel like everyone is listening with baited breath. By the way, we're going to link to every single thing that Katie is talking about on our website. So you can. We're. We. You don't need to take notes right now. I, I wanted to get your opinion on because you said not a huge fan of setting powder. What do you think about primers then?

[Carlene Higgins]

I. I don't know if it's because I've been focused on the world of clean beauty for my most of my career and they're they other than one from a lima pure which is a powder one, they don't really exist. So I haven't introduced myself to like the beauty or benefits. I mean I hear about it from other people that some people love and some people hate and so I've just kind of stayed away.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

There is a primer from Danessa Myricks. Yeah, I have a couple of clients who are young and have More oily skin. And so I have that in my kit and I'll use her mattifying primer in the center so that I don't get the breakthrough oil telltale like pores trying their best to send oil to the surface. And it works wonderfully. So that one from Danessa Myrix, it's kind of like a watery texture.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And it just becomes one with the skin and then you can put anything on top of it. But I keep that to the center.

[Katie Deno]

So that's something you would use on someone who's maybe a bit younger. Absolutely, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

The only other one that exists that I love is it's called a primer. I would just call it like a. It's a similar thing to like the. The finish of this, but it's from Kiara Weiss. It's one of their long standing and it goes on like a dream. And it makes skin look incredible. It's like a very finely micronized shimmer.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

And it just reflects light really nicely. And they call it a primer. You can use it under. It has a bit of a grippiness to it, I suppose, but often I'll just use that instead of anything else on faces and then go in with concealer.

[Katie Deno]

I once read that for the ultimate glow that Bobbi Brown puts moisturizer on after foundation. Have you ever never tried that trick?

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, heck, yeah.

[Katie Deno]

I've never thought of this. I don't know why, so.

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, because it seems counterintuitive.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And in some way it is. So if you're a full on foundation girl.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's not going to work. You're going to smear it.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

So I sometimes will put them, if it's a lightweight moisturizer in my palm of my hand or on my palette. Take my beauty blender that's been dampened and then wrung out in a towel and then pick up some of that moisturizer. And then wherever I feel like I've gotten a little dry, you know that foundation isn't sitting right. I will add luminosity to back to my skin life back to my skin using that moisturizer.

[Katie Deno]

Okay. Like something like a Willita skin food or. Is there anyone you like in particular?

[Carlene Higgins]

I love that product, but not in this way. Unless you are the driest bone around. Yeah. So. Because that would really break down.

[Katie Deno]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

The. The beauty of the foundation, as it were. So a gel moisturizer can work beautifully. Like there's one from Biossance, that's a gel. Squalene.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Ilia Has a nice moisturizer that works beautifully with their foundation. So any, anything that's a more light, kind of whipped, fluffier, Anything that's too heavy is. Even that alpine would be nice because it's real light, bouncy. But anything that's more of a balm or heavier cream, it'll break down the. The bonds that that foundation is trying to lay to look seamless.

[Katie Deno]

Right. And let's talk about blush. How you like to use it. Any interesting ways you're using it, like on the red carpet. Because I feel like it's an effortless staple.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, every makeup artist. I don't know anyone who doesn't love Blush. I mean, RMS has made the best blush. Like, I think that that is why my Instagram account went from like 30,000 followers to like a hundred after I posted a picture of Sadie Sink wearing soon to be launched RMS Blush, like two years ago.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Because I had all the formulas before they had launched them and I was testing them with me and. Oh my God, that blush has continued to be the reason why I get write ups. The reason why everybody reaches out. It's. I brought. I think so I grabbed one from my kit. Yes. The. This is love. Love.

[Katie Deno]

It's just reminding me of how I, I gotta, I gotta get back on this press list. I haven't tried any of these things from rms. Oh, my God. So it's looks like cream to powder.

[Carlene Higgins]

Maybe it's. It is powder.

[Katie Deno]

It's powder. Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

But it, it is a. As she will say, it's this revolutionary formulation that I can't do it justice now, even though I've heard her talk about it a million times. What's nice about it is that the. There's no filler, so it's all pigment and these finely micronized, like light reflecting particles. It's like no other. Honestly. Did I bring a brush?

[Katie Deno]

She's still, she's still crushing it with the formulations, you know what I'm saying? Like, she was the og.

[Carlene Higgins]

I know.

[Katie Deno]

And so many of the things she's. There's a lot of quote unquote clean brands out there by other makeup artists. But I still think pigment wise and pretty makeup wise, she still wins for sure.

[Carlene Higgins]

Agreed. Yeah. I mean, you know, there's no one like a makeup artist to me, so I'm. Let's see. I'll just put it on so you can see.

[Katie Deno]

Let's see. Demoing. So pretty.

[Carlene Higgins]

No mirror. But can you see it from there?

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So you can really build this up and, and it can also be really sheer. So I also love. She, you know, of course, as a makeup artist created a brush that was a really good shape for cheeks. Whether your cheeks are non like cheekbones and chunky cheeks are non existent or very, very prominent. This fits the cheek beautifully and deposits really nicely. So many brushes do us a disservice.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

The shape of brush. The brush really matters how it drapes across the cheek.

[Katie Deno]

It's funny how this one's like big and fluffy. Everyone.

[Carlene Higgins]

It is. And it separates in the middle in the right way. Like when it hits the cheek. It's weird. How specific.

[Katie Deno]

Yes. I love the detail. Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, it's. It is highly effective.

[Katie Deno]

So pretty.

[Carlene Higgins]

Not doing like a dump of color instead just allowing it to.

[Katie Deno]

There's a risk out there of that happening with pigmented products.

[Carlene Higgins]

Definitely. I mean we've all seen that. So. So yeah, I like. And again, it depends on my, my client's skin. If I'm going to do this may be controversial if I'm going to do powder blush first or cream blush first. But sometimes I do one and sometimes I do the other and it really depends. If I have somebody who has really textured skin, I'm going to put the powder down first. First allow that to sit on skin and then sometimes to add like a little bit more natural skin texture from a cream product, I'll go in with a brush or my fingers and just pat on a cream blush on top.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Usually just on like whatever the highest point of the cheek is, you know.

[Katie Deno]

And work it in.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, and work it in.

[Katie Deno]

I know we just have a few more minutes, so I want to ask you about defining features and I think. Oh, thank you. A lot of people, it is something that you. You lose definition. I feel like with the shape as you get a little older.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh yeah.

[Katie Deno]

And same thing with the lip line. So maybe we can touch on both of those.

[Carlene Higgins]

Definitely.

[Katie Deno]

Because they if depending on how you do them, you can look like yourself 10 from 10 years ago.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's so true.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's one of the most youth infusing things that you can do is to fill back in your brow, give your brow. So, you know, as we get older and these muscles all pull, pull us our faces down. That three band of muscles that pulls the face down into the neck brings the brows down. So if we can both relax these muscles so that we bring them back up and relax all of these so that we release the tension, then our brows spring up. If we don't Work on that. And we just want to pencil to, you know, quickly draw in the youthful look. I love the Kosas pencils.

[Katie Deno]

Oh, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Those are my go to. Basically every single look you see on my red carpet. Yeah, that's Kosas. Their color range is awesome. They have a taupe, a light honey blonde and you know, a gray and ash. All of these that are, you know, they have a dark brown, a medium brown, a chocolate brown. So you're gonna find one that is your perfect match. And I rather, I never go dark.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

I always stay on the lighter end of whatever colors. We don't have just one color brow usually we have a multitude. So I'll go with the lighter. And I, I start in the bottom of the. Right before the arch. Yeah. And I just, I see how much towards the top of that arch we're going to need to build in so that you get that lift.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Most people are asymmetrical in their brows and one is a little bit lower. And so you have to figure out whether or not where you're putting the color is going to. Of the one that's lower is going to be too high, that it's outside of the brow, that it's going to. For the onlooker going to be like weird. You know, like if you had a little face Tune, Photoshop, that would look great. But we don't. We have our eyes in real life and yeah. Therefore it's going to look kooky. So you might just want to fill that one in just to the top of where the brow is. I mean, it's a similar thing with lip liner.

[Katie Deno]

Right, Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

We all look great when we facetune or it's, you know, fuzzy lens.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

But in real life it can look really bizarre.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So if you were looking for that natural look, you're going to fill in your brows to their full extent, mostly starting at the arch and going to the tail.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And then using for me, because it's the Kosas, I turn it up, I turn it so that they're more vertical.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

They also have this nano one. Also a brand called Kimiko makes the. Oh, have you seen those?

[Katie Deno]

No. It sounds Japanese though.

[Carlene Higgins]

She is.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

She's a makeup artist.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

In A LA or New York. Yeah. And so she and Kosas have these super fine pencils. So Kosas has two formulations or two, two not formulations, maybe two types of format that it comes in. And so depending upon what you're using, I like to go, you know, if. So it's if it's their non nano, I will turn the. The. What is wrong with my brain? I'll turn the pencil so that it's facing vertically.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So that I get the up stroke.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

So that I can kind of. It's not necessarily emulating each hair because although that's super cool and can look really neat in HD on social media, in person, it's. It often can be a weird look.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And if you sweat or you accidentally rub, you have a brow in the wrong place. So I like to be like to use products and placement that's a little more forgiving.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And it's always about putting that on and then brushing.

[Katie Deno]

Brushing through. Yeah. We're not in the 2016 brow era, everyone.

[Carlene Higgins]

Totally.

[Katie Deno]

And what about. And you're talking. You made such a good point before about how our face is kind of like the muscles do just bring everything down. So how are you lining the lips? Making the lips look really fresh and effortless? Not that clown mouth situation going on.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, my gosh. The clown mouth. Well, I have to start by telling you, I did a workshop the other day with this woman named Sandra Lan Sheen. Do you know her treatment by Lan Sheen?

[Katie Deno]

I think so. I follow her on Instagram, but I've never met her.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, she's a wealth of information. She's a Chinese medicine practitioner and her. Her specialty is like, euthanizing. Euthanizing. You can't say that.

[Jill Dunn]

That's not the right.

[Carlene Higgins]

We're making the face look more youthful.

[Katie Deno]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Through use of gua sha. And the focus was on the lip. And so we learned about, like, strictures in the fascia in the muscle tightness around the mouth. And as we age, we begin to have this. Yeah. So it was that paired with my lip enhancing techniques. And by the end, everyone was like, look at my lips. Every face in the little square on the zoom, everyone was like, my lips look so much bigger. So it was really working the muscles around the mouth.

[Katie Deno]

Interesting.

[Carlene Higgins]

To help to release them, which is a whole thing. I won't go into here, but can see it on her Instagram and her YouTube channel, but then with lip liner. So for me, a natural lip. Natural lip enhancement would mean using your lip liner. And if you have a lot of fuzz around your mouth, you might want.

[Katie Deno]

To take one of those little dermaplaners.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Because otherwise you'll see it. It'll enhance that texture.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

It.

[Katie Deno]

It takes away from the definition, which is what you're trying to achieve, right?

[Carlene Higgins]

Absolutely. So you'll want to edge your lip, I always start. Start either side. Whatever's more comfortable for you. The cupid's bow. My mouth is the most asymmetrical. I mean, it always has been, but with age. So I have trouble every morning. I'm like, did I stand with the shadow in the right place? So I have no idea how it's looking right now, but it looks great. Thanks. But the. The cupid's bow is where I always start on every face. And you can overline the cupid's bow. You can overline the top of the rounded parts of the lip.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Of the lip. But you want to be coming back into the edge, the natural edge when you get to the corners.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

When you over line all the way down, it can end up making your lip look just not natural. Yeah. So, you know, a slight edging over top on the sides is cool, but bringing it back down at the end is a really nice.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah, I love that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Looking natural.

[Katie Deno]

And do any favorite lip liners for that look?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. I mean, so Swede has killed it with their lip liners. The colors are exquisite. I'm wearing one. I'm wearing their lightest one today, and I've had it on. What time is it? I had it on for seven hours.

[Katie Deno]

Wow.

[Carlene Higgins]

How does it look?

[Katie Deno]

It looks great.

[Carlene Higgins]

I put a little bit of lip balm on in the car, and that was it.

[Katie Deno]

Wow.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, it's.

[Katie Deno]

It is holding up.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's a really good adherence. It. They have a shade that looks like what you have on. You know, their. Their range is beautiful. Who else has some good lip liners? Monica Blunder does, too. Of course, those are the only ones that are coming to mind now, but I'm sure there are. Oh, there's a brand called Airy Perez.

[Katie Deno]

Oh, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, Also a Canadian brand, 1999.

[Katie Deno]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

They have some beautiful lip liners. They have a little bit more emollients. So I. I hesitate to say to redraw your whole lip shape and. And expect it to be crisp for hours and hours and hours. Their pencils are beautiful and the colors are dreamy, but I tend to prefer to smush. Smush that in and really work into the edges. At a client the other night for an awards show, and she was telling me how she loves the look of a perfect edge, but she just knows herself that she's going to be mumming too much. And historically, she just pushes the product outside of her lips. So we took a lip liner to her natural lip line, and then she took her finger and just blended it and it was perfect.

[Katie Deno]

I love that it's important to know yourself and your own habits. Right?

[Carlene Higgins]

Amen. Yeah. I can't.

[Katie Deno]

She knew she was going to a dinner or whatever, having some champagne, and that's what she was going to be doing.

[Carlene Higgins]

Absolutely.

[Katie Deno]

Then you got to work with that.

[Carlene Higgins]

If you're an eye rubber.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Maybe you're not going to have a perfect liquid, you know, line.

[Katie Deno]

Yeah. What's your favorite mascara? Clean mascara that actually stays put.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, Swede.

[Katie Deno]

Really?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Katie Deno]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

I was forever an Iliad devotee. I love their brush. I love it. But for me, the most important thing is a curl. And so in order to maintain that curl, you need a really dry formula. But it can't be too dry because you can't have, you know, crumbling, crumbly lashes. So Swede's formula is exquisite. I also really like if you want a more like a thick, fluffy, lots and lots of black lash. Ritual defeat. Their formula is beautiful. And they have that big teddy bear brush that's fun.

[Katie Deno]

Okay, I gotta try that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Y.

[Katie Deno]

Well, thank you for sharing all your tips. I mean, pleasure. We're out here trying to use TikTok filters, talking about contrast makeup, and I don't know what the is going on, frankly. So you're just like this wealth of information, real life. You're doing it on real people as well as celebrities who are the most, you know, demanding of performance and all of this. So I really appreciate all these, like, leveling up tricks that you've shared with our audience. I know our audience will really appreciate. Appreciate it as well. And we'll have to have you back. Thank you, Katie.

[Carlene Higgins]

My pleasure.

[Katie Deno]

Thanks for having you. Thank you so much.

[Jill Dunn]

Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our [e-mail] While.

[Katie Deno]

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[Jill Dunn]

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[Katie Deno]

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[Jill Dunn]

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[Katie Deno]

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[Jill Dunn]

See you.

[Katie Deno]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.