Why This Under $30 Skincare Keeps Going Viral, pH Matters & The Lore of Brandon Truaxe with Indeed Labs co-Founder Dimitra Davidson

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast: Detailed Summary

Episode Title: Why This Under $30 Skincare Keeps Going Viral, pH Matters & The Lore of Brandon Truaxe with Indeed Labs co-Founder Dimitra Davidson
Release Date: December 11, 2024
Hosts: Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins
Guest: Demetra Davidson, co-Founder, President, and CEO of Indeed Labs

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1. Introduction to Indeed Labs and Guest Introduction

[00:14 - 03:46]
Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins welcome listeners to the Breaking Beauty Podcast, highlighting their transition from beauty editors to podcasters over the past seven years. They introduce today's guest, Demetra Davidson, co-founder of Indeed Labs, emphasizing the brand's enduring viral success despite all products being priced under $30.

Notable Quote:
Carlene Higgins remarks, “...Indeed Labs is a homegrown hit and it just keeps going viral over and over and over again for its affordable skincare musts.” [00:14]

---

2. The Origin Story of Indeed Labs

[03:46 - 07:01]
Demetra Davidson shares the inception of Indeed Labs in 2010 alongside the late Brandon Truax, known for founding Deciem and The Ordinary. Initially motivated by her personal skincare struggles, Demetra sought affordable and effective solutions, leading to the creation of Indeed Labs.

Notable Quote:
Demetra explains, “I had gone to a dermatologist and I had some hyperpigmentation from my pregnancy. I couldn't get rid of it... So we decided to launch a skincare brand to have products made affordable and accessible to consumers everywhere.” [04:53]

---

3. Brandon Truax's Influence and Demetra's Journey

[07:01 - 12:01]
The conversation delves into Brandon Truax's pivotal role in shaping Indeed Labs and his untimely passing six years ago. Demetra candidly discusses the emotional and professional challenges she faced, including raising capital and steering the brand forward without her co-founder.

Notable Quote:
Demetra shares her emotional response, “...it was really, really hard for me to not be upset at somebody, especially in their very untimely passing.” [07:25]

---

4. Viral Products: NanoBlur and Nano Bronze

4.1. NanoBlur: A Legacy of Innovation

[16:04 - 20:10]
Demetra recounts the development and success of NanoBlur, Indeed Labs' first groundbreaking product. Introduced before the age of Instagram, NanoBlur created an optical illusion to smooth the skin, appealing during the era of HD cameras. Its continuous virality, even 15 years post-launch, underscores its lasting impact.

Notable Quote:
Demetra states, “We created the blurring category. We created the blurring category... we were the first brand that talked about filters before filters existed.” [19:59]

4.2. Nano Bronze: Redefining Bronzing Drops

[23:25 - 26:53]
The discussion shifts to Nano Bronze bronzing drops, a product born out of Demetra’s personal frustration with inadequate bronzers. Unlike competitors, Nano Bronze offers high pigmentation without excessive sparkle, making it versatile for various skin tones and suitable for daily use.

Notable Quote:
Demetra shares her inspiration, “I was frustrated, I couldn't find anything... so we decided to create a bronzer with actives that are good... daily moisturizer as well.” [23:32]

---

5. Launching Finn: pH-Balanced Acne Treatment

[31:31 - 36:14]
Demetra introduces Finn (pH-in), Indeed Labs' latest venture focused on treating acne through pH balance. Grounded in recent skincare research, Finn aims to maintain the skin's microbiome by keeping its pH within the optimal range (4.5 to 5.7), offering a sustainable approach to acne management without harsh chemicals.

Notable Quote:
Demetra emphasizes the brand’s scientific approach, “We keep your skin pH balanced and protect your skin's microbiome... the clinical results were just as strong as any other acne treatment in the market.” [34:08]

---

6. Future Plans and Adapting to Younger Consumers

[36:22 - 38:19]
Looking ahead to Indeed Labs' 15th anniversary in 2025, Demetra reveals plans to launch four new products tailored to younger consumers, particularly tweens. These products aim to address the specific skincare needs of younger skin while ensuring safety and convenience for both children and their mothers.

Notable Quote:
Demetra shares her vision, “We want to encourage self-love in a way that's safe... convenience, wallet-friendly, and reassuring for moms.” [37:19]

---

7. Advice for Skincare Startups

[39:07 - 41:07]
Demetra offers valuable insights for emerging skincare brands, emphasizing the importance of having a competitive advantage. She warns against entering saturated markets without distinct differentiation, underscoring that a unique product and genuine consumer need are crucial for success.

Notable Quote:
Demetra advises, “If you don't have a competitive advantage, don't compete. You have to have a good product, a point of difference, and a consumer that has that need.” [39:33]

---

8. Personal Beauty Advice and Parenting Insights

[41:07 - 45:13]
When asked about beauty advice for her daughters, Demetra highlights the significance of prevention in skincare. She advocates for establishing healthy skincare routines early on, reinforcing that proactive care can prevent future skin issues.

Notable Quote:
Demetra imparts, “Prevention is key. If you don't have a proper routine and listen to your skin, you're gonna see what's doing wrong 10 years from now and it's gonna be too late.” [40:57]

---

9. Reflections on Entrepreneurship and Brand Responsibility

[45:13 - 49:44]
Demetra reflects on the challenges of taking over Indeed Labs after Brandon’s departure, emphasizing her commitment to the brand and her responsibility to investors and consumers. She discusses the emotional toll and the professional duties that guided her decision to continue the brand successfully.

Notable Quote:
Demetra shares her sense of responsibility, “I had raised capital through my connections... So I took it very seriously and stayed committed to the brand.” [46:04]

---

10. Closing Thoughts

[49:44 - End]
The episode concludes with Demetra expressing gratitude towards the hosts for providing a platform to share her story. The hosts reciprocate the appreciation, acknowledging the depth and honesty of the conversation.

Notable Quote:
Demetra states, “I really appreciate you guys being here today... I've never given this much to an interview before.” [49:44]

---

Conclusion

This episode of Breaking Beauty Podcast offers an in-depth look into the resilient journey of Indeed Labs, highlighting Demetra Davidson's pivotal role in steering the brand through challenges and maintaining its viral product success. From the innovative launch of NanoBlur to the sustainable approach of Finn, the discussion underscores the importance of scientific grounding, consumer-centric product development, and the emotional fortitude required in entrepreneurship. Demetra’s candid reflections provide valuable lessons for both skincare enthusiasts and aspiring beauty brand founders.

Transcript

[Demetra Davidson]

The following podcast is a dear media production.

[Jill Dunn]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty the Podcast.

[Carlene Higgins]

All about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.

[Jill Dunn]

We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins. Welcome back to the show everyone. Hope that your December is merry and bright so far. We are Jill and Carlene to beauty editors turned beauty podcasters sharing the breakthrough people, products and moments with you in beauty every single week like we have been doing for seven years at this point. And in today's episode, maybe you're running around doing holiday shopping yourself, but you just want something in your AirPods to listen to and we're here for you for that. In today's episode, we're sitting down with a really inspiring woman and we're sharing the story of Indeed Labs with its co founder, president and CEO Demetra Davidson. And frankly, Carlene, this chat is so long overdue because Indeed Labs is a homegrown hit and it just keeps going viral over and over and over again for its affordable skin care must. Nothing in the line is more than $30. But low key people may not be familiar with the whole lore behind this brand.

[Carlene Higgins]

Indeed Labs was co founded back in 2010 with Demetra and the late Brandon Truax, who later went on to found deciem and the Ordinary. So you know, the beauty diehards, the skin care nerds will know who Brandon Trax is, of course. And I think everybody watched what happened with his career up until his passing six years ago. So yeah, people may not realize that he is tied to the early days at Indeed Labs. And that's one of the things we're going to be talking to Demetra about today. She gets really candid for the first time ever.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, Indeed Labs, they disrupted the whole skincare game, as Brandon was known to do. And their very first product was nanoblur, which went viral via word of mouth before Instagram even existed. And it was the first really blurring skincare product. Kind of born out of the eras of HD cameras. And at its height, I know that one sold every eight seconds and the promise was to make you look 10 years younger in 40 seconds. And this product just has has a life of its own. Like it went viral last week again with a video that Glamzilla did that made it sell out. So it's really still relevant 15 years later.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, absolutely. I know it was one of the hero products on the set of Euphoria when we interviewed Donnie Davey, the makeup artist for that show. Everybody can go back and have a listen in our archives, she talked about the reason why she chose Nano Blur for that show. That's not the only heroic product from Indeed Labs. It actually has another viral product, the Nano Bronze, that's become a favorite of Michaela Makeup and so many others. We're going to dive deep into that product as well.

[Jill Dunn]

By the way, there are new pimple patches. I just mentioned those in our newsletter. 48 of them for 99.99. Hello, stocking stuffer. Everybody needs to get those. I'm obsessed with them. So in today's episode, we're going to get the deets on Demetra's disruptive new brand called Finn. That's ph dash I n that she debuted last year. It really kind of flips the script, I would say, on how we think about treating acne and break breakouts. And she teases what's coming soon from Indeed Labs in 2025, their official 15th year in business. And now on to our conversation with Demetra.

[Demetra Davidson]

Hey, this is Sammy Clark.

[Jill Dunn]

And this is Sammy Spalter. We are best friends, co founders of our wellness platform form, and now hopefully, your new favorite podcast host with our new podcast, Transform. We started Transform because we are constantly having all of these big live chats. So we thought it was time to bring the conversations to the mic for you to join in. Knowing we can all relate to the forming the best version of ourselves, we will be chatting it up from everything from self love, health and wellness relationships.

[Demetra Davidson]

Owning a business, and all of the.

[Jill Dunn]

Other hills and valleys that is this big, beautiful life. Tune in every week wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Carlene Higgins]

See you soon.

[Demetra Davidson]

See you soon.

[Carlene Higgins]

So let's talk about how Indeed Labs got started 15 years ago. Like, what's the origin story that a lot of people don't know?

[Demetra Davidson]

Right. Yeah. First of all, wow, like, how can we even wrap our heads around 15 years?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Demetra Davidson]

I was a young mom. I had a need, and my youngest daughter was about. I think she was 2ish when we started, or maybe just over a year old when we started conceptualizing the idea of this brand. I had gone to a dermatologist and I had some hyperpigmentation from my pregnancy. I couldn't get rid of it. My dermatologist prescribed hydroquinone. I looked it up and I was too afraid to use it. And then it was so serendipitous because at that time, I met this gentleman by the name of Brandon Truex. I was already consulting, so I had already established my career. My background is in finance, as some of you might Know, and then I was in luxury goods and I had gone off and done. I went back to school and did an HR specialist. So I was in full swing, you know, my own business, consulting, helping to build small to medium sized companies. And I met Brandon Truax, who said that he had been working for a skincare brand. He was a computer guy. And we had this conversation. He said, I want to start a skincare brand because do you know what's going on behind the scenes? And I said, no, I don't. But actually what I know is that I have a need. Right. So Brendan and I kept in touch and I kept saying, can you make something for this? Because I've gone to the drugstore and I can't find something to help treat this. And nobody seems to know what ingredients are in products except for my doctor, my dermatologist, but I don't want to use what he has prescribed. It sounds scary to me. And so I think it was through those conversations that we decided to launch a skincare brand to have products made affordable and accessible to consumers everywhere and to really dive into the science of the products and the ingredients that go into them. But I really believe that it was through those conversations I never expected to be in the skincare business. It was this person that was so excited about this opportunity and me selfishly going, okay, well, that sounds great, because I'm a consumer and I had an expertise to help build strong teams. So what I did was on behind the Scenes, we built the lab, we hired our teams, and Brandon was the front end marketing genius.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, amazing. I. I do remember, and everybody can go back and listen to that episode back in our archives because we were one of very few, if not almost the only podcast that had Brandon on the show back in the day. How do you reflect on that now that he has his untimely passing? What do people maybe not know as an outsider?

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah, thank you for asking that. It took me a really long time to process, to reconcile in my mind. Obviously his untimely passing was for somebody like myself. I met him when he was 29 years old, put a lot of faith in him. It was shocking and it was too soon for a marketing mind. A genius like that, hard to reconcile because just like a lot of people in Brandon's past, he left us hurt.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

Me and our business partners, and especially me. So it took me a long, and I say especially me because I took on this burden I felt at the time and responsibility that I was supposed to take on with a partner. I wasn't supposed to be in front of the brand, but it was a huge investment at the time. I had raised capital through my networks to help our expansion across the United States. I've actually never spoken candidly about this, and I think it's time, because it was really, really hard for me to not be upset at somebody, especially in their very untimely passing. And then also in my mind, to give myself the, you know, the confirmation that I was meant to be here. And it took me a couple of years. Took me a couple of years to get my footing, to go through pain, to. To also go through, like, the skepticism. And you didn't start this brand. Brandon did. To stand here and say, yeah, that was really early on. I took on a challenge that most people would have run away from. Yeah, I took it on head on. I learned everything that I needed to learn in the industry. I worked tirelessly to the point where I even sacrificed being a mom sometimes on the road constantly. And it took me a while to just sit there in my own accomplishments and the accomplishments of indeed labs and say, you know, today, 61 awards later, the brand may have started by Brandon's idea. And our foundation and the ethos of the brand still exists to this day. Why we started and why we launched in the industry. But to be able to identify and embrace the fact that if it wasn't for Brandon, I don't know what my life would have looked like today. He put me on this course and that I value and appreciate. I miss sometimes, you know, that opportunity to go, you know, like Brandon. What. What do you think?

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Demetra Davidson]

For a long time, I felt like I could feel his presence. I feel like he's rooting for indeed labs because this was his baby.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right?

[Demetra Davidson]

This was what put him on the map.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, definitely was.

[Demetra Davidson]

And you guys know the industry is competitive, and I did things slowly, and I was behind the scenes for a long time. I literally just opened up a public account six months ago. So what does that tell you? You know, I didn't want to be in front of the Brandon for a long time. He put me on this course. I learned a lot in terms of, you know, disruption, because that was Brandon. Yeah. I also learned a lot about credibility, about honesty. There were other aspects and other things that weren't there, which is why we severed ties at the beginning. That's all I can say. Yeah, it's a long. It's a really long one.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

But I've. But I'm good. I'm good at knowing that I honor what he brought in my world.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Demetra Davidson]

And take all that goodness from it and forward and forward.

[Jill Dunn]

I commend you for even talking about it because we've interviewed a lot of brand founders and listen, business is messy sometimes in the last year, I can tell you how many brand people started a brand together and then they're no longer working together anymore. It happens all the time, but it's just maybe not so public. And I also commend you for, you know, saying that you don't know. You didn't. You weren't a cosmetic chemist, but you never claimed to be either. But people came for you and you're like, what are you know about X, Y and Z? It was all brand. And so I always thought that was, like, pretty. It was unfair because you never said you were.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah. And also the strengths that I brought to the table and what our leadership team brought to the table that no one ever speaks of. Right. It was who funded Brandon, who built the lab.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Demetra Davidson]

Brandon, who hired all those people, who has a background in finance, which I did. Who understood branding and marketing. So we together, I think we started this. Not I think I know we started down this journey. And it took me a while to embrace this is mine. Y. It was so many products came after Brandon. But I do have to honor his memory in the sense that not only did he change my world, but he changed all of our worlds in this place and young consumers, consumerism in general. Absolute disruptor.

[Carlene Higgins]

Major milestone in the beauty industry. And we were talking about this off the mic that we've been around for so long and seen it all evolve. So he was definitely pivotal in that. But we also know that we've seen so many brands where the founder leaves and. And everything just starts to fall apart. And that didn't happen with indeed labs. It's 15 years later and there's an evolution which we're going to get into in today's episode. So. But I think it's great that perspective allows us to come to a place where we can just see things better in hindsight and be able to acknowledge just see it for what it was. So I appreciate.

[Jill Dunn]

SA Way is supporting our show this week. So one thing that I love to gift around the holiday times is the gift of good hair days. You just simply cannot go wrong. It's the best feeling in the world when you have a great hair day. So I want to shout out a product that I know so many people can benefit from. It just makes a great gift. And that's the ways Detox shampoo. I've been using it for years. It's always in my shower. I use it once a week. It cleanses product buildup, hard water deposits dirt, oil and other impurities. It's safe for all hair types. Color treated hair can use it. Keratin treated hair can use it as well as Brazilian blowouts. And I just find that my hair looks really shiny. It feels very soft. It deeply cleanses without ever stripping my hair, which I appreciate. And another staple in my winter hair routine that I love and you all need to know about is the way hair oil. It's nutrient packed, it absorbs really quickly, keeps color from fading and it revives damaged hair easily. Love using it on my ends. And it also keeps static at bay, which is really important for me in the winter. And don't sleep on the ways body products, everyone. They have the best textures, the best scents. So there's so many gift ideas. So great news for Breaking Beauty listeners. We have a special offer you can get on your way to save for the holiday. Go to the way.com that's spelled T H O A I.com for 15% off site wide and enter promo code BEAUTY15. That's T-H-E-O-U-A-I.com for 15 off with code BEAUTY15. We'll link to the software in our show notes and on our website.

[Carlene Higgins]

Today's episode is brought to you in part by Heliocare. So in this episode we're talking all about ingredient LED skin care. And one category that is great for everyone, regardless of age and skin type is antioxidants. Antioxidants are so important because they protect our skin from free radicals that damage our skin cells, lead to premature lines, wrinkles, dark spots, even a compromised skin barrier. So that's why we always say that skin care with antioxidants is so important. But there's another way to get your antioxidants, which is internally by the foods you eat and also a supplement. There's actually a proprietary and powerful extract that's rich in antioxidant properties called fern block P L E technology and it can be found in Heliocare Daily use Antioxidant formula. It's clinically proven plant and it's recommended by dermatologists across the country because it works to provide an extra layer of skin defense and helps maintain healthier skin. We have a promo code if y'all want to try it. Visit lovely skin.com hcb15 and use code hcb15 at checkout for 15% off your helio care purchase. We're going to link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. That's code hcbb15 at checkout for 15 off your Helio Care [e-mail] hcbb15 and now back to the episode.

[Jill Dunn]

You know, obviously with Indeed Labs, it was putting the hero ingredient front and center. That really was the genius never been done before. And you know, people might have have heard retinol was good for the skin, but they certainly weren't shopping for it or seeking it out necessarily. Maybe from their derm, but not on a skincare label. So maybe walk us through that whole idea what the process was for doing that with all the formulas at the beginning.

[Demetra Davidson]

Really, really early on. I don't think the market was ready for ingredient LED skin care. I will say because I still recall numerous conversations where I would say to people, you gotta try this product. It's hyaluronic acid. It's pure form of red marine algae hyaluronic. And they'd oh, acid, no, I can't use that, it's gonna burn my face. Right. And look at how far we've come.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Demetra Davidson]

Right now we've got the Riedel shot that stings and hurts. So we launched with nanoblur, which has light reflecting properties in it. It's like an optical illusion. There's no treatment in that product. And that's because we knew that we needed to break into an industry that was going to be hard to come into, cement ourselves with credibility. And that credibility was our proposition, our value proposition was that we have skincare that's going to work right. So we needed to show consumers in that instant it's going to work. So it was very strategic that we launched with Nanoblur and in fact our chief scientific officer who formulated Nanoblur in our lab, he still works with the company today. So deep rooted in science, it's not accidental that we've been able to lead trends because I watch the trends a lot. And then we. I am, like I said, I was a consumer at the time, I still am, but I was a consumer that had need. Today I can mix anything I would need for myself in the lab.

[Carlene Higgins]

I remember when indeed labs came on the scene and with nanoblur and it was very at the time, you know, the marketing was at bus stops and you know, subways where you'd see this poster and it was the woman with the half half face.

[Jill Dunn]

And it was almost like clinical, like somebody released before afters from a Derm. And put them on a bus shelter.

[Carlene Higgins]

But the before and after was dramatic and there. And the claim was real science, real claims, real people, real results. So it wasn't airbrushed, right? No, those results and it. So it was a. It felt like a cosmetic skin care hybrid and it really felt quite miraculous that, you know, you could, even if it was a cosmetic product, that you could get this smoothing effect. And so.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, and it was revolutionary coming from the magazine world where, like all of our big advertisers were Estee Lauder and Lancome.

[Carlene Higgins]

Airbrush.

[Jill Dunn]

Airbrush, Airbrush. Within an inch of its life.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

And that was the ideal. Yeah, it was before Instagram.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right, right, exactly. So how did, like, did the chemist stumble upon this innovation or how. What can you tell us without giving away the secret sauce?

[Demetra Davidson]

So he has a PhD in this type of technology and he really understood it really well. And at the time, high definition television was starting to really. It had just kind of exploded everyone. All of a sudden now you're watching television and you could see everything and large pores shine. And we, we were looking. I don't remember who it was that we were having these discussions in terms of what product was going to launch first, but we thought about it and we knew that that technology would take off because especially behind a camera, the instant results were undeniable. And in fact, they still are today. Like, we just had another video go viral again the other day from another big name influencer in our industry going, look at this.

[Jill Dunn]

I think I just saw it before I came here. Was it Glamzilla?

[Demetra Davidson]

Glamzilla, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And people were like, girl, you got me running to cvs.

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah, exactly. So I can't. Like, people have asked me about virality and moments and I've said to them, like, we've gone viral a number of times with a number of products, but with Nanoblur over and over and over.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

So the technology has never been duplicated. I can't give a lot of information regarding the technology, but what I can say is we created a category. So we created the blurring category.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

We definitely were the first brand that talked about filters before filters existed. So now I say, you know, it gives you kind of like that Paris filter in real life.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

But who would have known? Fifteen years ago we weren't even really using social. Not definitely not social media for skin care.

[Carlene Higgins]

Absolutely.

[Demetra Davidson]

I mean, we took a regular camera and took regular people and took photos of them, but it seemed like it was so highly curated in a Dermatologist's office. And one of the publications told us that the ad that we ran was not pretty enough. Yes, I believe it at that time.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wow. Okay.

[Demetra Davidson]

Wow. Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

The Monopoly wasn't attractive enough so they wouldn't run the ad for us. That's not to not call them out, but. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

I wonder if it was the magazine I was at. But it wouldn't have been my department.

[Demetra Davidson]

It wasn't Canadian, it was in the uk. It was British. But nonetheless, I mean, you know, you're.

[Jill Dunn]

Not the sales team.

[Demetra Davidson]

No, fast forward. I met with them years later and, you know, I said, hey, guys, do you remember what you said, like years ago? That's.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

That, you know, that the world has changed, thankfully. Yeah, changed a lot. The beauty standards that we had back then, we were very instrumental for saying, you know, that's not going to be us.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And you did mention it keeps. It's kind of has a life of its own where it's one of those things if, you know, you know. But then every so often it will get rediscovered on Tick Tock or. You had a major milestone with Euphoria. So tell us about that and how that sort of impacted nanoblur.

[Demetra Davidson]

So that was coming off the end of COVID so people were still not gathering together. We had created the studio that were in here. In here filming today and we were going to have a party. We didn't know what to do. And then Donnie Davy, who is the makeup artist on the set of Euphoria. Euphoria that season had done exceptionally well. It was those makeup looks. She was interviewed. I think Kirby Johnson interviewed her and they said. Said, like, what's. We had no idea. I had no idea that she was using our product. But I wasn't surprised because we do have a lot of celebrities, they're makeup artists. They. They ask for our product all the time. But she was interviewed and they said, what's your secret? And she pulled out Nanoblur. So then. And that was right when Tick Tock had taken off and somebody used it on Tick Tock and said, well, this is, you know, this cream is magic. They use the word bruhidia. And it just. Just went crazy. Yeah. So that was.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

And then we had. And then we launched in here for the season finale of Euphoria. And that was a great.

[Jill Dunn]

For us.

[Carlene Higgins]

So great. We had Donnie on our show a while back. We'll link to that episode, guys, in our. In our show notes and on our website. But I remember her talking about the nano blur and There were certain characters who, the director didn't want any makeup on them.

[Demetra Davidson]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

At all. And so like no foundation. No. No products like that. And so that's why she used the Nano Blur to give that blurring effect without having any look of makeup. So that was really fascinating. What about another product of yours that's gone viral a few times over? The Nano Bronze bronzing drops. Let's talk about that one. This is like a whole category now. I feel like so many brands have come out with this type of product. What makes the Nano Bronze so special that people keep coming back to it?

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah, that's a good question. So I had my own specific need. I have a story around that product which is quite funny.

[Carlene Higgins]

Do tell.

[Demetra Davidson]

So I was doing press. I was in the uk, it was early spring. I was wearing a skirt. I wanted some color on my legs. I ran into Selfridges and they sold me a self tanner that was a liquid that was clear like water. And I don't know why I got excited about it at the time. In hindsight, no, that's not a good thing. But I sprayed all over my legs, didn't apply it properly and let it. Sorry. Went off to my meeting, it processed and then I looked down and I had streaks running down my leg. And so this was, it was a long time ago. This was before people were even thinking bronzers. And so I ran into, I don't remember drugstores or wherever I went to look for a bronzer to cover it up. And I couldn't find a bronzer that had enough pigment in it and not a lot of Michael like sparkle because I didn't want to look like I was wearing makeup on my legs. And I couldn't find anything. So I was so frustrated, I called my team and I said, hey guys, guess what? We're going to make a bronzer. But because we say we're not a one ingredient brand, we are formula based brand and most of our products have multiple benefits. I wanted to be the first brand that had a bronzer with actives that are good high levels and good enough to use every day as a daily moisturizer as well. So we were one of the first brands that created this daily moisturizer with bronzing in it. And I think that's, that's what made it so special. But also when I was creating it, and again, this is years ago, I wanted to make sure that we were able to get a wide range of skin tones so it was pretty pigmented without being orangey. So you were able to dilute it down if you're more fair or use it on its own if you are a darker tone. So I think that that's why it did so well.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

And at its price point.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. It was just. You took the words out of my mouth. I was just about to say we haven't even talked about the price point of Indeed Lab. So I believe how much are the Nano Bronze drops?

[Demetra Davidson]

24.99 in Canada. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And how much in the U.S. i.

[Demetra Davidson]

Believe they're 24.9 as well. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Less than 30 bucks. And there's a very infamous product out there that costs at least double, if not triple the price. And it's just. It just makes sense. And one thing that I really love about the nano bronze bronzing drops is to your point, there's no sparkle in it. In it.

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And I actually saw a makeup artist yesterday on Instagram say she uses Nano Bronze pretty much exclusively on her male grooming clients before camera work.

[Demetra Davidson]

Wow.

[Jill Dunn]

Because it gives that glow, but doesn't look like they're wearing makeup. And to your point, it's skincare first.

[Demetra Davidson]

Right. Versus collagen. What are the antioxidants? It's got an antioxidant. It's got hyaluronic acid, it's got a pea extract in there. And so it actually, it can actually give you sort of that. That self tan over a period of time if you use it consistently. But for the most part, it's very hydrating, very moisturizing, and also then it has that daily antioxid. So that's what you really need during the day. But it's interesting because what I was gonna say about that is men's grooming. It's so funny because so many men ask me, do you make products for men? But we have so many makeup artists that use exclusively our products on their men clients. At least recently, we were tagged with Patrick Mahomes, and during the film festival here in Toronto was all the male actors that were using our nanoblur and Nano Bronze. So, yeah, we have.

[Carlene Higgins]

That makes sense. Between the two of them, it really is that perfect, like, genderless, no makeup, makeup kind of idea.

[Demetra Davidson]

Ye.

[Jill Dunn]

Sa grateful that Hill House Home is supporting our show this week. Hill House Home, they invented the viral nap dress. You know the one, it's really flattering fit. It's got smocking for ultimate comfort. I have one in my closet and I'm in good company because celebrities like Taylor Swift love Hill House Home as well as mindy Kaling. And one of my favorite things about Hill House Home dresses is that you can dress them up or down. You can wear it to work with a blazer on top. You can kind of dress it up for an evening holiday party. And I really appreciate that. The dresses, they all start at $150. And right now I'm looking at their website, and I'm obsessed with this one dress. It's called the Blythe style, and it's got bows on it. I love it. I think it's so cute and so versatile for holiday parties. And that's not all. The commitment to comfort and style applies to a lot of categories at Hill House Home. They also sell amazing bedding, robes, and pajamas. And they have. I think this is adorable matching dresses. So you could have for little. Matching dresses for little ones, so you could have mom and daughter in the same print. And I just think that's so fun for holiday parties and holiday photos. So great news for Breaking Beauty listeners. You can get 15% off your order of $100 or more at Hillhouse Home.com with code BEAUTY15. Again, that's code BEAUTY15 for 15% off your order at Hill House Home.com. we'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website.

[Carlene Higgins]

Today's episode is brought to you in part by Quip. I have a confession to make. My electronic toothbrush has been failing me, and lately, when I run my tongue across my teeth, they feel kind of fuzzy. I know that sounds gross. I don't know what's going on because I changed the head on it. I don't know. Like, the universe is telling me I need a new toothbrush. So I do have a new one on root. It's called the Quip360. It's an oscillating toothbrush, and I love that it's not overly complicated. I don't need to sign up for an app. It's just a very simple design. Comes in multiple colors. It's said to be ultra quiet. And what I really like about it is that it's been accepted by the American Dental association. So the Quip360 is scientifically proven to remove up to 11 times more plaque between teeth compared to a manual toothbrush. And it's said to provide up to two times more whitening on day one. I cannot wait to try this thing. And if you don't absolutely love your quip360, you can return it for free within 30 days. So there's really no commitment if you do love it. You can brush easy knowing that you're getting a free lifetime warranty for purchasing on getquip.com and you have the opportunity to subscribe to refill heads by mail every three months so you never have to go into a store. And when you subscribe for auto ship you're enrolled in quip perks to earn credit back over time. So I just love that I don't need a calendar to remember when I need to replace my brush head. So free your mouth with quip and you'll discover why 25000000 people have given the quip 365 star reviews. That's super impressive. And of course we have a special offer for breaking beauty listeners. You can get 20 off site wide and a free travel case and countertop [e-mail] beauty that's Q-U-I-P.com beauty we're going to link to this offer in our show notes. It's getquip.com beauty for 20 now I think on that note though, we need to move on to another kind of sister brand I guess you launched last year, which maybe people don't know of as much. It's called Finn but it's spelled P H dash I N. Yes. So tell us about that because one of the things that popped out to me right away is you really see that ph, it's a, a small P, capital H. So we understand that it has something to do with ph and it treats acne. So I just have never seen that at the forefront so much where ph seems to be the kind of star ingredient I guess in the even though it's not an ingredient, but it's the hero kind of idea. So tell us about that.

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah, definitely. So being a skincare brand, a skin care brand owner, obviously one of the biggest concerns that consumers have have is acne. I had my own personal story and journey with acne. When I was younger I used a three step system. I went to my dermatologist. I felt and I was younger back then. We didn't know anything about skincare back then. I felt like my face was lighter than the rest of my body. I thought I was imagining it. I was actually bleaching my skin. Benzoyl peroxide.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Demetra Davidson]

I went to my dermatologist and he tried to sell me on a cleanser and I said, well I'm using this system. He said how long you've been using for? I said 18 months. He scared the living daylights out. He said you should not be using this for extended periods of time. And of course, as a consumer and somebody who suffered with acne, I was too afraid to come off of it. So fast forward, I started to learn about our skin's microbiome, how our skin functions and how it works. And so I tasked our scientists to create. In theory, acne is triggered by a bunch of different things. Could be hormones, stress, genetics. But how it's formed is an overproduction of sebum. The acne strain of bacteria called C. Acnes feeds off that excess sebum, it multiplies, and then the excess bacteria, C. Acnes, as well as the sebum, gets stuck in the hair follicle. That's how acne is formed. In theory, then if we actually control our skin's microbiome, which is made up of funguses, virus and bacteria, and we keep that bacteria intact without it being overgrown, we should be able, your skin should be able to do what it's supposed to do itself, to purge naturally and heal itself. So we started to look at that. And so what we realized is if you keep your skin in its optimal PH zone at all times for at a 4.5 to 5.7 ph zone, then it'll treat itself. And so we started to create products to keep your skin ph balanced and protect your skin's microbiome. And, and we sent it through clinicals and we got back the clinical results and we saw that the clinical results were just as strong as any other acne treatment in the market, except that this brand doesn't kill all bacteria, which is absolutely essential to your overall health. And the more we learned about our microbiome, the more we learned that our skin, our brain, our gut are connected. And so I got super excited. We put it through three rounds of clinical as well as the third round under the advice of a board certified dermatologist, Dr. Noel Solish, with our scientists, and the results were unparalleled. And then we sent it up for microbiome certification.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

And so for me, in terms of excitement, like people ask me, what products are you most excited about? What opportunity can you give consumers? For me, FIN is the best results we've ever gotten with something that is not bad.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wow, that's. Well, that's really saying a lot because it's, it is a lot of education and maybe a bit of a hard sell to get people to change their mindset where it's a gentle approach to acne. You don't actually have to obliterate it for it. To be gone. It's a low and slow in a way which some people might not understand or like. Like, it's just so different than the paradigm that we've been living in for.

[Demetra Davidson]

So long, except that it does the same exact thing. It's just. It's sustainable. So if you see other acne. If you read the back labels of acne treatments, they'll say after a month, you should see the. Or speak to your dermatologist.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

You shouldn't be using them for extended periods of time. And we also know that breaking down our skin's barrier can result in other issues. Longer term, it can be linked to eczema, it can be linked to rosacea and all these other skin problems that people have. But the clinicals on the acne side are so strong, over 92% said that they saw visible reduction in acne, which is the same clinicals as acne treatments without any irritation.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

For everyone listening, it's three products. Right. Can you just explain?

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah. There's a cleanser. It's a ph balancing gentle PH balancing cleanser. So it cleanses without stripping. And then the second step, which is your moisture treatment, and that's the other thing, because it's not doing anything harsh. It doesn't feel. You're not feeling any stinging, you're not feeling any irritation, you're not getting any dryness. So it's a moisturizer. But that's where the magic happens. That's where you're targeting the excess bacteria, the C. Acnes. And then, of course, we have our mask, which helps with any. Another byproduct of acne is scarring. And, you know, know the scar. Scarring is actually really hard to treat.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

And so that's what our third step is for.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, amazing. And what about indeed labs? Anything new coming down the pike that we should be excited about for 2025?

[Demetra Davidson]

Yes, absolutely. So we are launching four new products. Three of them are targeting a very specific consumer and super excited. Can't give a lot of information about it just yet. Yet. But they will be launching early February. So very timely. Definitely. We've seen a movement in this industry bringing in younger consumers. I am a huge advocate of definitely creating healthy habits at a young age. I don't know if you guys know this. Well, you know this. You talked about my daughter earlier, but I have three daughters and I had a really hard time, even as a mom who has a skincare brand and knows so much about our skin and science of process products, convincing them to have healthy Habits. So in that vein, I'm excited that younger consumers are paying attention and self love is important to them. I don't think we want to discourage them. I think we want to encourage it and we want to encourage it in a way that's safe.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, Absolutely. Well, it sounds like this is going to be perfectly in timing for the tweens at Sephora that we saw headlining 2024. Really? And offering, you know, better options that are more appropriate for their skin type, I'm guessing, is what it's all about. Because, you know, if they just reach for anything that's a bright and shiny color, they might end up scorching their exact acid mantle.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

And definitely a lot of thought went behind. What is their very specific needs? Yeah, their skin needs, but also what do moms need? And so moms need convenience, moms need wallet friendly, and moms need to be able to be reassured that whatever their children are doing is safe for them and not potentially harmful.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right? Yes.

[Demetra Davidson]

And so that's where the challenge becomes because we have a responsibility to our consumers to do a lot of the work for them and take the guesswork out of it for them. They're busy, people are busy. So I'm really excited about this.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, I'm excited too. Listen, I've got one teen and one tween, so. So I'll be happy to have tested.

[Jill Dunn]

It in my household.

[Carlene Higgins]

And I remember being there with my daughter where just like you said, I have a closet full of skincare and I really had to question what can I use on 10 year old skin that is going to be appropriate?

[Demetra Davidson]

So they don't need a hell of a lot. Yeah, a heck of a lot. Exactly. But what they need is definitely proper cleansing and you know, a little bit of. And also. So it's just that our skin, our industry is very tactile. It's that just that feeling that you're giving yourself self love. Just that feeling.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

So that's really important to develop a habit.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, for sure. It's like, it's like the Mickey Mouse toothbrush in a way. It's like, let's just give them a little entice.

[Demetra Davidson]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. So Demetra, looking back, like we said, 2025 is a big year for Indeed Labs. 15 years on the scene, which is amazing. What advice would you have for other skincare startups right now? Because there just are so many. There's so many more than when you all started in 2010. So what's the number one thing you think that A brand needs to win today. I mean, is it getting an Instagram account finally?

[Demetra Davidson]

Not necessarily. It's not necessarily about the numbers, really. So. Okay, so here's my advice. If you don't have a competitive advantage, don't compete. Okay. That's not, that's not just personally my advice. That's been advice that's been out there for a long time. But it is so true in our industry that if you don't bring a product to market if it already exists, and that, that's frustrating right now because there's a lot of copycat brands that are coming out. We're seeing that. I don't know what the name of that company is that's knocking off brands, really crazy packaging, but who knows about the formulas? Right? Like, you know, I've been doing this for a long time, so I, I don't know how they're able to do that. Right. But. But yeah. So if you don't. I think, I think if you don't have something different, it's going to be very difficult. You can't. We've seen it. You can't just start off with a great following on social. Yeah. It doesn't always work. You can't start off that you have a really anchored celebrity status. It doesn't always work. You have to have a good product. You have to have a point of difference. You have to have a consumer that has that need for your products. And if you don't, then it's probably not a good idea because it's not going to be. It's not going to be successful.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, yeah, the straight talk. Appreciate that. And our final question for you. You mentioned you're a mom of three daughters. Daughter mom. What's the best beauty advice that you've shared with them?

[Demetra Davidson]

Definitely prevention. I. I would say that I've, you know, we hear so much about prevention these days. Prevention. Skincare is prevention.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

Skincare products are prevention. I think that once you see something, it's too late. In my early career, somebody said to me, what you do in your 20s, you will see in your 30s and every 10 years. I think that that's the advice I've always given my children and that, you know, prevention is key. I think if you don't really have a proper routine that you stick to and also listen to your skin, then you're gonna see what you're doing wrong 10 years from now and it's gonna be too late.

[Jill Dunn]

Right?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Thank you so much for your time today.

[Demetra Davidson]

You know what?

[Carlene Higgins]

The time flew By.

[Demetra Davidson]

It flew by. This is well overdue. I have like a million questions for you guys.

[Jill Dunn]

Go ahead. We're. Mics are rolling. B side.

[Carlene Higgins]

B side.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, exactly.

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah. When you guys made the transition onto this side of the world, you must have been nervous at the time, right?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, I mean, I just don't think we thought it would be like a job. Yeah, I don't think we thought that we'd doing it full time.

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Me. Anyway.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, no, I think we thought it would be a gig, like part of the freelance, you know, juggle. Yeah. Toolkit or something. Something.

[Demetra Davidson]

I have to ask because you guys have behind the scenes with everybody. What is the. What was. What's the most shocking thing that, you know, consumers don't know?

[Jill Dunn]

Ooh. I think it's been interesting to me to see how certain brand founders, how deep they roll. I mean, in terms of an entourage, it's like the new celebrity in. And there are big influencers that have big brands and they are like an A.

[Carlene Higgins]

They are.

[Jill Dunn]

Their teams treat them like an A lister, which was pretty shocking to me. I would have to say no names will be named.

[Demetra Davidson]

I'm aspire to that. You guys see me throwing chairs over my head, like picking the colors for the people. Ask me and I go, oh, I do everything from A to Z around. Well, I mean, of course, I have an unbelievable team. You guys have met them, they're great.

[Jill Dunn]

But you were literally chasing someone down on the street before we came in here today to get.

[Demetra Davidson]

And telling them that men have skin too.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, I agree with that. And, and some, I think that some founders we've spoken to or not spoken to. I think what's interesting is sometimes if there's been like, we used to always say that we would talk to founders about their, their foils and fist pump moments. So knowing that there's going to be ups and downs in the. In the process of being in an entrepreneur, because we really have interviewed a lot of founders in the Beauty and the founders who just don't want to talk about the low points. That's been interesting. I think, like, there have been some founders where prior to getting on the mic, they've said, I don't want to talk about this or that. And we've said, well, then we can't move forward because, you know, just part of the story. It's part of the story. And in the spirit of transparency, it's important. So, yeah, that's been. That's another kind of behind the scenes. I would say that, you know, yeah. That was kind of surprising to us, just because we're having real conversations is what podcasts are all about.

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah. Well, I think, you know, I. I often say, like, one day I'll have to write a book or something. I've just seen so much in this business.

[Carlene Higgins]

Absolutely.

[Demetra Davidson]

But, yeah, I. As I said earlier, I. I wasn't comfortable sharing. And it wasn't because that story didn't exist. It wasn't because there's anything to hide.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

It was because I hadn't, at the time, reconciled, like I said, in my mind, what it meant to me. You go through so many different emotions, like, from fear to anger to, you know, sadness. I remember being really sad when I got the news of Brandon's passing. And yet I used to run into him across the street at the coffee shop the odd time. And he was doing his thing and I was doing my thing, you know, and it's. And then all of a sudden. Right. So it was. Yeah. But even just trying to reconcile, like, why did this all happen? What does it mean? Anyway? But I. I can see that. I can see that there's a lot of smoke in mirror y.

[Carlene Higgins]

Exactly.

[Demetra Davidson]

I'm brutally honest. Yeah. To the point where I have to remind myself not everybody likes the honest truth. Yeah. I just. Just leave them in their own little worlds. They don't need to know all this stuff, you know?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's so funny.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, I'll be very interested to see. And I. It's on IMDb, so I'll say it when this documentary about Brandon comes out. Yeah. I think there's a few of them. So I'm curious to see what's been shared. Who's sharing?

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And I think people. So he is just an enig. Enigmatic figure.

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

That left such a lasting impression. And I think a lot of people have been probably processing and thinking.

[Demetra Davidson]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

And I'll be curious to see, were you approached?

[Demetra Davidson]

Yes. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Are you part of.

[Demetra Davidson]

Are you. I am part of one of them. And, you know, again, I didn't really. I didn't think that it was necessary.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

You know, I didn't. Didn't think that I played that big a role in his world, to be honest. But when I realized that they didn't. That was a very important missing piece of the story that nobody had.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Demetra Davidson]

Nobody knew where he came from.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Demetra Davidson]

Nobody knew. Like, at some point, he kind of, like, started decim. And then the ordinary.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

And there was, you know, a lot of talk about what happened in that world, but nothing in my World. Yeah. And so we had been under strict lock, and my. Obviously, my board said, like, no, I wouldn't talk about this stuff if I were you. And I was like, well, it's. It's happened. Yeah. You know, Exactly.

[Carlene Higgins]

So they could also listen to our podcast, which is still in our archives.

[Demetra Davidson]

He does talk about.

[Jill Dunn]

When we talked. Yeah, he talked about out very candidly. And, I mean, I think everything with Brandon was probably a bit of a grain of salt.

[Demetra Davidson]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

But he talked about, you know, parting ways with Indeed. And he did it in.

[Demetra Davidson]

Or.

[Carlene Higgins]

No, he was on his way to a meeting.

[Jill Dunn]

I think he was at the airport and was gonna maybe go to a meeting for Indeed Labs and then decided he was like. And then he went somewhere else and that was.

[Carlene Higgins]

That.

[Demetra Davidson]

That's what he did.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

And nobody knew why.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

And that's where I say, there's like, anger, sadness, mad, you know, like, now what.

[Jill Dunn]

He just did his own thing.

[Demetra Davidson]

I had just raised funds through my connections, and we established a board, and now I had responsibility to this funding. And that's. You know, that's a big. You know, people might say, well, I feel really bad. Like, you were stressed. And that's. That's not really the bigger part of the story. The bigger part of the story is that you have. You have a responsibility, and this is someone else funding your business based on what you've told them. You are going to deliver liver. Right. Which is why I took it so seriously.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

Obviously.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

Yeah. And to this day. And so, yeah, I stayed. I was the one who stayed with three children.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

I was the one who had a lot at risk. So there are times where, Yes, I was very angry about. Well, why. I'm the one who should have left. Yeah. I didn't. I didn't have the luxury at the time. My kids were little.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Demetra Davidson]

You're the one who wanted to do this. I should have gotten off a plan. Plane. On a plane to go take a vacation. Right. Exhausted.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

But that was the honest truth that I never told anybody, because that's what mothers do. Yeah. We make ourselves feel guilty.

[Carlene Higgins]

And do we. Do we know the reason that he.

[Demetra Davidson]

I believe that probably what happened is when you raise funds from a very formal financial investor, there's formalities. And. And you have to answer to them. And Brandon was not used to that.

[Jill Dunn]

That's right.

[Demetra Davidson]

And now all of a sudden, you had to answer for what you were doing and why and put business plans in place. And that was. That's my background. I was Very comfortable with that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Demetra Davidson]

But Brandon wasn't. And he wasn't going to answer to anybody. So for me, then, what does that mean? It was at an ego thing. Was it a lack of knowledge, experience, understanding, accountability? Like, what was it? I don't really know. There wasn't a conversation, so there wasn't a whole lot of. I think I'm gonna walk. This is not right. There was a little bit of friction for maybe a day between not even myself, Brandon, our other partners, and then a note saying, I'm out.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Demetra Davidson]

And that was the end of that.

[Jill Dunn]

So the bridge was burned.

[Demetra Davidson]

The bridge was burned. Wow. All the better for it in the end. But definitely a lot of hiccup along the way. So.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

Like, keeping quiet was a hard thing to do, but again, my kids were little. I had a job to do. That's right. I. I didn't just, you know, plop out. I had had a career prior to that. I knew responsibility. I knew what it meant.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Demetra Davidson]

To have, you know, your reputation to honor somebody else's and whatever. Anyway, that's.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

I mean, if you were going to continue with this brand, then you had to keep it clean and above board and not burn, you know, not, you know, throw a bomb behind you. You've got to, you know, you've got to start on the right foot. A positive note. So good for you for doing that.

[Demetra Davidson]

Guys. I really, honestly, really appreciate you guys being here today because I've known for the past, I don't know how many years, eight years, that if I was going to talk to anybody, it's gonna be awesome. I didn't even give this much to the interview that.

[Jill Dunn]

I appreciate it. We really appreciate your time. I feel like the stars have aligned and the timing was right to sit down.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And have a gab session and just keep it real and really appreciate it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our [e-mail] While.

[Jill Dunn]

You'Re there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox, so you won't miss a.

[Carlene Higgins]

Single thing and get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast.

[Jill Dunn]

And did you know we also have a private Facebook group called Just Search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.

[Carlene Higgins]

You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-030. 2.

[Jill Dunn]

And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.

[Carlene Higgins]

See you.

[Jill Dunn]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products.

[Demetra Davidson]

Or services referred to in this episode.