Breaking History: BONUS | Russiagate: Do The New Documents Support Treason?

Release Date: July 30, 2025

In this bonus episode of Breaking History, host Eli Lake engages in a compelling debate with Josh Hammer, a prominent center-right pundit, journalist, and attorney. The discussion centers around the recently declassified documents from the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) regarding the Russiagate scandal, analyzing whether these documents substantiate claims of treason within the U.S. government.

1. Introduction to the Debate

Eli Lake sets the stage by introducing Josh Hammer and outlining the core topic: the relevance and implications of the declassified DNI documents related to Russiagate.

Eli Lake [01:58]: "Today the Free Press published two more points of view on the Russiagate revelations, including a piece from my guest, Josh Hammer."

Josh Hammer acknowledges the significance of the discussion and underscores the complexity of interpreting intelligence assessments.

Josh Hammer [03:26]: "Eli, it's a pleasure. Thanks for having me."

2. The January 6, 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment (ICA)

Lake and Hammer delve into the ICA released on January 6, 2017, which concluded that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election with the goal of undermining public faith in the Democratic process and favoring Donald Trump.

Eli Lake [03:28]: "Gabbard now alleges that the ICA is not merely false, but it's crucially that Obama administration officials and Obama himself knew it was false at the time they compiled it."

Hammer contends that the ICA was hastily produced and influenced by flawed sources, particularly the Steele dossier.

Josh Hammer [04:46]: "What we're seeing here is the January 6, 2017, Intelligence Community Assessment... was published just two weeks prior to Donald Trump taking office."

He emphasizes that the assessment may have been biased, aiming to establish a narrative favorable to political outcomes.

3. The Steele Dossier and Its Influence

The discussion shifts to the Steele dossier, a collection of reports alleging misconduct by Donald Trump with ties to Russia. Hammer argues that the dossier was mishandled and improperly influenced the ICA.

Josh Hammer [07:00]: "Donald Trump was, effectively, a Manchurian candidate."

Lake counters by clarifying that the ICA did not include the salacious claims from the Steele dossier, such as allegations of Trump's personal misconduct.

Eli Lake [06:16]: "None of that was in the intelligence community assessment... it was not part of the 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment."

Hammer acknowledges that while the peed tape and direct Trump implications were not in the ICA, the dossier influenced the broader narrative.

Josh Hammer [09:07]: "They have now decided to declassify... that the Steele dossier was reviewed and was considered as part of this get Rush, get out the door January 6, 2017, Intelligence Media Assessment."

4. The Role of James Comey and FBI Investigations

A significant portion of the debate focuses on FBI Director James Comey's actions during the Russiagate investigation, particularly his public acknowledgment of the probe into Trump's campaign.

Eli Lake [15:40]: "Comey confirmed the existence of the investigation when they had every reason to have shut it down by the time he announced it."

Hammer criticizes Comey for leaking the investigation details prematurely, which he believes fueled political frenzy and mistrust.

Josh Hammer [16:03]: "He's putting his thumb on the scale... firing Comey was a heinous act."

5. Impact on American Political Trust

Lake and Hammer explore how the Russiagate scandal has eroded trust in government institutions, leading to a deeply polarized and distrustful political climate.

Eli Lake [33:59]: "Russiagate is kind of the origin story of all this stuff... it's how we got here."

Hammer agrees, attributing the current distrust to the mishandling and politicization of intelligence and investigations.

Josh Hammer [33:55]: "That's one of the reasons that we're in the dire straits that... we're in now."

6. Legal Ramifications and Future Implications

The conversation turns to the potential legal consequences of the new documents. Both agree that prosecuting former officials for treason or related charges is unlikely due to legal and practical constraints.

Josh Hammer [56:19]: "The Supreme Court ordering an intelligence review, having the president do that... [is] very big deal."

Lake emphasizes the improbability of high-profile prosecutions, highlighting the severity and specificity of treason as a constitutional crime.

Eli Lake [59:07]: "Treason is the one crime, as you know, that is defined explicitly in the Constitution."

7. Restoring Trust in Intelligence Institutions

Concluding their debate, Lake and Hammer discuss the necessity of bipartisan efforts to restore credibility to intelligence agencies and government institutions, drawing parallels to the post-Watergate era.

Eli Lake [52:21]: "We need to trust these institutions to not be politicized."

Hammer echoes this sentiment, advocating for reforms to ensure the intelligence community operates free from partisan bias.

Josh Hammer [53:28]: "The notion that a country like the United States will not have a CIA like agency or an FBI, like federal law enforcement bureau is obviously ludicrous."

8. Final Thoughts and Recommendations

Both hosts agree on the importance of focusing on substantive issues moving forward, such as the economy and national security, rather than perpetuating partisan conflicts rooted in scandals like Russiagate.

Josh Hammer [67:34]: "Focus on the economy, crime, immigration, global stability. These are the things that the median voter cares about."

Lake concurs, emphasizing that breaking the cycle of distrust requires moving beyond past scandals to address the pressing needs of the American populace.

Eli Lake [68:42]: "The best revenge at this point is to have an incredibly successful presidency."

Notable Quotes

• Eli Lake [01:58]: "Today the Free Press published two more points of view on the Russiagate revelations..."

• Josh Hammer [04:46]: "What we're seeing here is the January 6, 2017, Intelligence Community Assessment..."

• Eli Lake [06:16]: "None of that was in the intelligence community assessment..."

• Josh Hammer [09:07]: "They have now decided to declassify... that the Steele dossier was reviewed..."

• Eli Lake [15:40]: "Comey confirmed the existence of the investigation when they had every reason to have shut it down..."

• Josh Hammer [33:55]: "That's one of the reasons that we're in the dire straits that... we're in now."

• Eli Lake [52:21]: "We need to trust these institutions to not be politicized."

• Josh Hammer [67:34]: "Focus on the economy, crime, immigration, global stability..."

Conclusion

This episode of Breaking History provides a nuanced exploration of the Russiagate scandal, dissecting newly released documents and their implications for U.S. politics. Through a thoughtful exchange, Eli Lake and Josh Hammer highlight the complexities of intelligence assessments, the politicization of investigations, and the enduring impact on public trust. The debate underscores the necessity for bipartisan efforts to restore integrity and confidence in governmental institutions, aiming to prevent the recurrence of such partisan conflicts in the future.