Breaking History: Episode Summary
Episode Title: The Buckley Stops Here: Trump And The Death of Conservative Civility
Release Date: June 18, 2025
Host: Eli Lake
Publisher: The Free Press
Introduction: The Legacy of William F. Buckley Jr.
Breaking History opens by commemorating the centennial of William F. Buckley Jr.’s birth, highlighting his pivotal role in establishing the American conservative movement that catalyzed the Reagan Revolution nearly half a century ago.
Eli Lake [00:00]:
"William F. Buckley Jr., more than any other figure, is responsible for creating the American conservative movement that fueled the Reagan Revolution nearly 50 years ago."
Buckley's influence serves as a foundation for the episode's exploration of how the conservative movement has transformed, particularly during the era of Donald Trump.
The Conservative Movement: From Buckley to Trump
Irving Berlin [00:32]:
"What happened once happens again."
Eli Lake contextualizes the shift in the conservative movement, contrasting Buckley's eloquent, debate-friendly approach with the more combative style epitomized by Donald Trump.
Eli Lake [03:10]:
"Donald Trump has sent the National Guard into Los Angeles over the objections of California's governor. He is not a monarch, he is not a king, and he should stop acting like one."
The discussion underscores the divergence between Buckley's emphasis on civil discourse and Trump's penchant for authoritarian tactics.
William F. Buckley Jr.: Architect of Modern Conservatism
Buckley’s Early Life and Political Awakening
Born into privilege, Buckley’s education at Yale and subsequent work with the CIA in Mexico City deeply influenced his staunch anti-Communist stance.
Sam Tanenhaus [10:34]:
"Bill Buckley was so lonely, we got the American conservative movement. He had to have people around him, right? He's looking for companionship."
Buckley's founding of National Review in 1955 marked a significant milestone in unifying disparate conservative factions into a coherent movement.
Eli Lake [05:24]:
"Well, I don't think there would be an American conservative movement without William F. Buckley, Jr."
National Review: The Ideological Supreme Court
National Review became the cornerstone of Buckley's efforts to blend traditional conservatism with a modern anti-Communist agenda, attracting influential thinkers like Russell Kirk and James Burnham.
Jonah Goldberg [22:29]:
"So conservative in Europe meant bound by notions of hierarchy... In America, conservatism means conserving the principles of the Founding Fathers and the Declaration of Independence."
Buckley’s Stance on Civil Rights and Segregation
A controversial aspect of Buckley’s early career includes his support for segregation, reflecting the complexity of his legacy.
Charles Kessler [24:01]:
"The white community is so entitled because for the time being, it is the advanced race."
However, Buckley’s views evolved over time, demonstrating his capacity for growth and dialogue.
Sam Tanenhaus [30:06]:
"Buckley starts to see there's a disjunction... How do you make it work?"
His interactions with civil rights leaders and black activists enriched his understanding and influenced his later positions.
Buckley vs. Robert Welch and the John Birch Society
Buckley navigated internal challenges within the conservative movement, notably his break with Robert Welch and the John Birch Society due to their extreme positions.
Charles Kessler [33:05]:
"Mr. Welch, for all his good intentions, threatens to divert militant conservative action to irrelevance and ineffectuality."
This decision underscored Buckley’s commitment to maintaining intellectual integrity within the movement.
The Reagan Revolution: Fulfillment of Buckley’s Vision
Ronald Reagan emerged as a key figure embodying Buckley's conservative ideals, despite initial tensions between the two.
Ronald Reagan [35:55]:
"If you and I have the courage to tell our elected officials that we want our national policy based on what we know in our hearts is morally right..."
Their collaboration culminated in Reagan’s successful 1980 presidential campaign, which Buckley viewed as the realization of the conservative insurgency he had fostered.
Eli Lake [35:32]:
"Reagan understood the struggle against communism abroad was directly linked to the struggle against liberalism at home."
Buckley’s Role in Watergate and Beyond
During the Watergate scandal, Buckley maintained complex relationships, including personal ties with key figures like E. Howard Hunt.
Ronald Reagan [39:24]:
"Whether that accountability is going to be legal or purely moral."
Sam Tanenhaus criticizes Buckley’s handling of Watergate, suggesting his personal connections may have compromised his journalistic integrity. However, Buckley’s brother, James Buckley, publicly called for Nixon’s resignation, reflecting a nuanced position within the family.
George F. Will [33:41]:
"National Review writer... was unrelenting in his coverage of Watergate and called out Nixon early on..."
The Decline of Conservative Civility: Buckley vs. Trump
As the episode progresses to modern times, it contrasts Buckley's commitment to civil discourse and debate with Trump’s divisive tactics.
Jonah Goldberg [51:37]:
"Donald Trump is a right-wing populist with certain bells and whistles, but he's not a conservative."
Eli Lake argues that the conservative movement has strayed from Buckley's principles, prioritizing party loyalty over genuine conservative ideology.
Eli Lake [55:26]:
"Can you imagine a MAGA influencer today spending an hour politely debating a member of Antifa the way Buckley would invite members of the Black Panthers or Noam Chomsky onto Firing Line?"
The discussion highlights the erosion of the respectful debate and intellectual engagement that Buckley championed, positioning Trumpism as a departure from these foundational values.
Conclusion: Revisiting Buckley’s Legacy
The episode concludes by reflecting on what Buckley might think of today’s conservative movement, emphasizing the loss of civility and the embrace of tribalism over reasoned debate.
Eli Lake [55:26]:
"Perhaps the cure would be to revisit Buckley's legacy not for its political program, but for his habits of mind and reverence for debate."
Buckley’s enduring influence serves as both a blueprint and a cautionary tale for contemporary conservatives grappling with identity and direction.
Notable Quotes
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Ronald Reagan [02:06]:
"I think you all know that I've always felt the nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
(Timestamp: 04:00) -
Charles Kessler [24:01]:
"He wrote, the central question that emerges is whether the white community in the south is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail politically and culturally in areas in which it does not predominate numerically."
(Timestamp: 24:01) -
Jonah Goldberg [51:37]:
"Donald Trump is a right-wing populist with certain bells and whistles, but he's not a conservative."
(Timestamp: 51:37) -
Ronald Reagan [35:55]:
"If you and I have the courage to tell our elected officials that we want our national policy based on what we know in our hearts is morally right..."
(Timestamp: 35:55)
Reflections and Implications
Breaking History offers a comprehensive examination of William F. Buckley Jr.’s monumental impact on American conservatism and juxtaposes it against the contemporary landscape shaped by Donald Trump. The episode elucidates the transformation from a movement grounded in intellectual debate and civil discourse to one characterized by populism and factionalism. By integrating historical analysis with personal anecdotes and expert commentary, Eli Lake provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of the enduring tensions within the conservative movement and the challenges it faces in maintaining its foundational principles in the modern era.
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