What Exposure Therapy Actually Feels Like (The Mentos/Jelly Bean Exercise)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Breaking the Rules – "What Exposure Therapy Actually Feels Like (The Mentos/Jelly Bean Exercise)"

Hosts: Dr. Celine Gelgec & Dr. Victoria (Tori) Miller
Episode Date: April 20, 2026
Main Theme:
A hands-on, experiential episode guiding listeners through the "Mentos/Jelly Bean" exercise—a practical demonstration of what exposure and response prevention (ERP) therapy feels like, designed to help clinicians (and their clients) understand and communicate the discomfort and value of ERP for OCD.

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Episode Overview

This episode takes a step beyond theoretical discussions to demonstrate the discomfort, urges, and psychological dynamics involved in ERP. Drawing on ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) and DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy) traditions, Drs. Celine and Tori use the "Mentos exercise" (here, with jelly beans) to provide a vivid, relatable experience—ideal for both clinicians and families supporting someone with OCD.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rationale for Experiential Exercises

(02:30–04:09)

• ERP is not just about teaching skills but helping clients feel and practice discomfort in controlled settings.
• Many clients are theoretically motivated, but fight/flight/freeze responses can derail skills during real exposures.
• "To do some of these exercises in the room is a great way to teach and mentor your client... so that they're better able to put it into action when they're at home." – Dr. Tori Miller (03:50)

2. Introduction to the Mentos/Jelly Bean Exercise

(04:11–05:56)

• The exercise, borrowed from Russ Harris's ACT workshops, is a favorite for illustrating how compulsions feel and how difficult they can be to resist.
• Not just for clients—useful for loved ones to build empathy: "It's one of the closest ways to explain to a loved one what it's like to experience a compulsion and how futile it is... when your parents or partners say, 'Just stop doing them.'" – Dr. Celine Gelgec (04:49)

3. Demonstration of the Exercise

Mindfulness & Set-up (06:26–08:15)

• Tori chooses a jelly bean and is guided through a brief mindfulness and grounding exercise: focusing on breath and body awareness before beginning.
• Once the jelly bean is in the mouth, the instruction is not to chew, swallow, or even swallow saliva, and to notice everything that arises.

Notable Moments:

• “Exposure therapy at its height.” – Dr. Celine Gelgec, joking as Dr. Miller nervously selects a jelly bean (06:01)
• "I already feel very uncomfortable." – Dr. Tori Miller (08:08)

Guided Exposure ("Surfing the Urge") (08:15–10:19)

• Dr. Celine gently narrates the experience—encouraging Tori (and listeners) to:
  • Notice urges, discomfort, images and thoughts.
  • "Lean into it. Don’t push it away. Move towards it as much as you can. Just let it fill your body." – Dr. Celine Gelgec (09:02)
  • When ready, allow yourself to swallow and return to breath.

4. Debrief and Reflection

(11:19–14:55)

• Tori describes the experience:
  • "Uncomfortable." (11:49)
  • The discomfort rises quickly, even with previous experience of the exercise.
  • Bodily tension and fight/flight responses are immediate: "I was bracing myself as though something really bad was happening." (12:27)
  • Noted a flood of images (e.g., overflowing saliva, embarrassment), and thoughts like, “When is this going to be over?”
  • Urge to resist was powerful, but meaning-making (e.g., “What does this do for me or for our listeners?”) helped to sit through the exposure.
    • "Once I reconnected with that, everything kind of softened for a moment… not that the discomfort went away, but the intensity—my body softened, my mind got a bit quieter." (14:07)

Acceptance:

• Dr. Celine highlights the key takeaway: "You connected with meaning to help you reach acceptance, which then allowed... your ability to tolerate it changes." (14:43)
• It’s not about changing the external circumstances, but about changing your relationship to discomfort.

5. Linking to OCD Treatment & ERP

(15:11–18:48)

• Dr. Celine summarizes: “It’s a nice exercise to teach clients what ERP is actually like.”
• The exposure is facing discomfort and potential embarrassment; the response prevention is holding off on swallowing, paralleling the urge to perform a compulsion.
  • "Swallowing saliva would be, correct me if I'm wrong, a voluntary reflex... we can interrupt it if we wanted to?" (15:57) (some light humor about remembering university physiology lectures)
• If a client cannot “hold on,” that’s okay—the exercise can be repeated, with gradual increases in endurance. “See if you can go longer next time... that mirrors ERP, inviting people to delay their compulsion rather than extinguish it completely.” (17:36–17:44)
• Can be adapted for telehealth or situations without a lolly—just have the client sit with saliva buildup.
• Especially useful (and fun) with kids and teens to explain ERP.
  • “They love the Mentos because we just have the bag there and they munch on it all night… They get into it.” (18:33)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It doesn't matter that I've done it before or that I know what it's all about. It doesn't change just how uncomfortable this stuff is." – Dr. Tori Miller (12:12)
• "It's not as though in that moment, there was less saliva in my mouth. I hadn't escaped anything. The circumstance didn't change, but your relationship to the circumstance changed." – Dr. Celine Gelgec (15:03–15:09)
• "If your client does swallow their saliva, which some clients do, then that's okay. ... See if you can go longer the next time." – Dr. Celine Gelgec (17:15–17:36)
• "Just keep persisting." – Dr. Tori Miller (17:52)
• Lighthearted banter on Mentos flavors and childhood associations keeps the tone warm and relatable.

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Practical Applications

• For Clinicians:
  Use this exercise in-session or with families to translate the theory of exposure therapy into a tangible, shared feeling of discomfort and urge. Great for psychoeducation, building empathy, and normalizing difficulty in ERP.
• For Families/Loved Ones:
  Engaging in the exercise can spark understanding and compassion, making it easier to support those undergoing ERP.
• For Clients:
  Reframes the expectation: it’s not about “never struggling” but about “leaning in and persisting” and finding meaning/getting through discomfort.

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Introduction to Experiential Exercises: 02:30–04:09
• Mentos/Jelly Bean Exercise Set-Up: 04:11–06:26
• Guided Exposure (Exercise): 06:26–10:19
• Debrief & Tori’s Experience: 11:19–14:55
• Lessons for ERP & Clinical Application: 15:11–18:48

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Episode Takeaway

This episode gives listeners a direct window into what exposure feels like—providing clinicians with a powerful, practical tool and deepening empathy for individuals with OCD. As Dr. Celine notes: “It’s not about changing the discomfort—it’s about changing your relationship to it.” (14:43–15:09)

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For more resources or exercises, visit:
Melbourne Wellbeing Group or tune in every fortnight for new episodes of Breaking the Rules.

Transcript

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[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

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[Dr. Tori Miller]

And I'm Dr. Tori Miller. Welcome to Breaking the Rules. On Breaking the rules, we talk about

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

all things OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder. OCD impacts up to 1 to 2% of the population. We are here to provide not just education, but to inspire clinicians, families and people who are impacted by OCD to be able to access the treatment they need in order to get better.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Catch us every fortnight wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Hello. How are you?

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah, still good?

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yeah, yeah, always good. Yeah, always good. Gratefully yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just excited that I get to sit cross legged. I know. If you haven't caught up, baby's been evicted. Welcome back for another episode of Breaking the Rules. Today we're going to do something a little bit different, but cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Play along. This is. We're going to do an experiential exercise today. What the hell is an experiential exercise? An experience. It's basically something you do through learning.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah, yeah. Experience. Yeah. Right.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

And so you. Yeah, you learn through doing.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah, yeah. And so this is something, I think, that comes into play a lot. A lot. When doing ERP because it is one thing to teach the skills. And often we find that our clients are very motivated and very willing, but at the same time, when they are triggered and they sort of move into fight, flat freeze, it's really hard to be putting new skills into action. And that is not just for ocd. That is.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

No, it's for anything.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

For anything.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Right, Exactly.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

And so to be able to do them. So to do some of these exercises in the room is a great way to teach and to also then sort of mentor coach your client through the experience so that they're better able to put it into action when they're at home.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yeah, yeah. Cool. Thank you.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

One of our favorite ones, actually, you get a lot of experiential exercises through acceptance and commitment therapy, dialectical behavior therapy, as well, a actin dbt. And one of my favorite ones is the Mentos exercise. And we don't have Mentos. We have jelly beans. And I call it the Mentos exercise because that's how I learned it. I learned it at one of Russ Harris's workshops.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Mentos is listening. You're welcome to sponsor us.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Oh, yeah. Thank you. Mentos. I love the lemon flavor. Just. Just. So you just putting it out there.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

You like lemon? Yeah, lemon's the worst.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

But you know me, I love lemon. Everything.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

I know, but pink's the best.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

The pink one?

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Nah, it's too strawberry. Ish. Is it even strawberry or is it raspberry? Anyway, we're going off on a dance. That's the way my brain works from one thing to the next. Anyway, so it's one of my favorite exercises because it's something you can also do with your loved ones at home, which I think is one of the closest ways to explain to a loved one what it's like to experience a compulsion and how futile it is when you pair. You're in your parents or your partner or your. Whoever. Loved ones around you say just stop doing them. Yeah, right. In that voice. Exactly. So play along. It's a really good one. And re. Listen, write it down, whatever. If you want to use it with your clients, it's a good one to use. Okay, so Tori's gonna be my volunteer to give her voice a bit of a rest because she's not feeling very well today, so. Croaky. Yeah. So we have these beautiful jelly beans. Thank you. Also jelly beans for sponsoring our show. Not really. But if you want to. Go ahead.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Give me, give me. Just don't. Give me a black one. No, don't.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Exposure therapy at its height.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Don't. I've done licorice in session in solidarity with a client who was doing exposure work. Yeah, I despise licorice, but I did it.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

So do I. I company I also despise licorice. The anus. I can't. Anyway, you can pick. Take a pic.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Oh, bless you. All right.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Pinky pink.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Pinky pink.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Match my shoes?

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah. Cute. All right.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

All right, now.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

All right, I've got my jelly bean.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

While you're holding onto it, we're going to just focus on the breath for just a second.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Okay.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

And then I'll get you to pop it in your mouth.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Okay.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

All right. You're sitting comfortably.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Very.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Would you like to keep your eyes open or closed? What's going to be less distracting for you?

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Close.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Probably closed. Okay. So when you're ready, you're feeling comfy, close your eyes. And for the next few moments, I'm going to invite you to just bring your attention to your breath. Don't change your breath. Don't do anything. Just notice it. Notice how you're breathing in and out. Notice your breath flowing in and out of your nose. Notice how it's slightly cooler as you breathe in and warmer as you breathe out. Notice your mind's chatter. And just let it be, let it hang. And bring your attention back to your breath. If you get distracted, you might start to notice different feelings in your body. Different sensations, different sounds happening. Again, if you get distracted, just gently bring your attention back to your breath, noticing its rate and rhythm. When you're ready, you can pop the jelly bean into your mouth. And when it's in your mouth, I don't want you to move it around. Just leave it on your tongue. You can't chew it. You can't swallow your saliva. You can't do anything. So the aim of this is to hold your saliva while the jelly bean is in your mouth. Get the giggles out before you put it in. Otherwise all I'm just gonna see the slobber going everywhere.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

I already feel very uncomfortable.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yeah, that discomfort's already rising.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Okay, here we go.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

When you're ready. Okay, so the jelly beans in your mouth is just sitting on your tongue. We're not swallowing our saliva. We're gonna try and hold that. We're gonna surf the urge to swallow saliva with the jelly bean in your mouth. So your mind is already probably presenting you with lots of images, urges, sensations. Try and notice them and sit with them for as long as you can. Again and again. You'll get hooked and distracted. The saliva is probably building up right now. You might start to taste the flavour of the jellybean as it's coming up. Notice the urge to want to swallow. Thank your mind for the urge. Come back to the discomfort. Lean into it. Don't push it away. Move towards it as much as you can. Just let it fill your body from head to toe and just let it be. Notice any tension that might be coming up. Notice how strong the urge is getting or it might even be plateauing or it might be going up and down. Notice the pattern. Keep holding it, keep noticing it. Keep leaning into the discomfort. And when you're ready, you can swallow your saliva and either spit the lolly out or enjoy it. I'm going to invite you to gently bring your attention back to your breath, Letting go of the tension, Noticing your breath once more. Noticing the taste of the jelly bean.

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[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Again and again. You might get hooked or distracted. Come back to the breath. And when you're ready, you can open your eyes and notice three things you can see in the room around you. Notice the position of your body on the chair. Notice how you're sitting. Notice any sounds in the room. And here we are. All right, let's debrief. How was that for you?

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Uncomfortable.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yeah. What did you notice?

[Dr. Tori Miller]

So many things. Okay. I noticed how quickly I became uncomfortable.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

And how. Which is I find really interesting about. Because I've done this exercise before.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

It's amazing how it doesn't matter.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

It really doesn't know.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

It doesn't matter that I've done it before or that I know what it's all about. It doesn't change just how uncomfortable this stuff is.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

So I really noticed how quickly my body started to hold the tension.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yes.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

And how hard I had to work to relax my body because I was just really like. Like I was bracing myself as though something really bad was happening. I noticed the influx of images.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yes.

[Equip Health Representative]

About.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Like having a mouthful of saliva about, you know, like this overflow about embarrassment about you. That started to h. Happen. And I noticed sort of thoughts like, when is this going to end? When is this going to be over? This to take forever. I want this to end. Yes. So, like, the. The urge to resist and to push it away and to make it go away was really strong. And the other thing actually, that I. I really noticed as well was the. The need to tap into a good enough reason to keep going, to persist with it, you know, like to make meaning from it.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

That. That. That really helped. That while I was sitting there, I was observing what was happening and I was. I was getting sort of these, you know, thoughts to. To stop it and end it was the thoughts around, well, you know, what is this exercise for? And at a personal level, so what. What does this do for me? But also at sort of a community level, like, what will this mean for our listeners if they hear me, you know, really do this in full and really get to the end? And I love that. And then once I'd really felt like I'd reconnected with that meaning, which I had before, but it kind of disappeared once the discomfort started to rise. That. Once I reconnected with that, everything kind of softened for a moment. And it's not that the discomfort went away, but the intensity. My body softened. My mind got a bit quieter. Yeah. The meaning and purpose was. Was there was actually really important, I think, for managing it.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

I love that. Because what you've beautifully described. Is that idea of the point of acceptance.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Right. But you connected with meaning to help you reach acceptance.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Which then allowed, like you said, the noise and the discomfort still there, but your ability to tolerate it changes.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Which is so powerful. It's such a powerful lesson because it's

[Dr. Tori Miller]

not as though in that moment, there was less saliva in my mouth. I hadn't escaped anything.

[Equip Health Representative]

Actually.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

The circumstance didn't change.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

No.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

But your relationship to the circumstance change.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Which is a really powerful lesson. It's just. Oh, intrusive thoughts. Did you get. You got images. Intrusive images to get any thoughts?

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah, intrusive thoughts about, like, drooling on camera.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

My evil laugh.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah, there was definitely that.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Thank you so much for sharing that. The takeaway from that is it's a nice exercise to do to teach your clients what doing exposure and response prevention is like. Really? That's essentially the essence of it.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

The exposure being the discomfort to doing something that could potentially be embarrassing, and the response. Prevention being don't swallow your saliva.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Which It's a. Swallowing saliva would be, correct me if I'm wrong, a voluntary reflex. Is that right? As in we can interrupt it if we wanted to?

[Dr. Tori Miller]

I'm gonna say yes.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Okay. That's an I'm not sure look, but that's okay. People want to drop comments if they're on YouTube and they want to correct us in the comment section. Go ahead.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah. I have a feeling they've been at the. At the cafe at uni, getting coffee during that lecture.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

I was the studious one sitting likely in the beer garden, taking 10 million pages of notes anyway. Yes. So I think because it's an involuntary. It's a voluntary reflex. I think, in a sense that, yes, we can interrupt it and interfere it, but at the same time, it's a really hard one to.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah, to resist.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

To resist.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yeah. I remember when I was doing it, I had intrusive thoughts around choking or all the, you know.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

All that sort of stuff, too. So lots of things can come up. It's also a really good one to do with your family and loved ones, like I mentioned earlier. And you can see why now that we've done it.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Is to help build understanding.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

And empathy in how hard it is, because everyone will struggle. A lot of people struggle with it. If your client does swallow their saliva, which some clients do, then that's okay. It's not that the idea is to Swallow completely. Sorry. To resist completely. It's to then go. Okay. See if you can go longer the next time.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

So you keep going with the exercise, but you just get them to.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Keep going for a little bit longer.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Which mirrors. Erp.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

It does. Absolutely.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah. Inviting people to delay, you know, their compulsion. Yeah. Rather than extinguish it completely. Exactly the same idea.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Just keep persisting. Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

If you're on telehealth, then you don't necessarily always need a lolly. You could just ask your clients to hold their saliva.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

So mouth closed and just let it build naturally without any. Any stimulus in there to. To get it going. So you don't always need a lolly. And same with in session as well. If you don't have access to.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Lollies, then that's fine.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

As well. Yeah. So a little tidy just makes it fun. Yes. Bit more novel and exciting.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah, that's.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

Yeah. And it's a great one to do with young teens. Yeah, they would like and. And, yeah, young.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

I know. We do it in our teen group, don't we? In our teen group? Well, I mean, I think love might be a little strong. Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

They don't love it.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

I don't think they love it.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

I think they love the Mentos. They love the Mentos because we just have the bag there and they munch on it all night. I mean, not all night during the time we have them, but. Yeah, yeah, but they do. They get it. They get into it.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

So it's a good one to do with kids as well, to help explain what exposure response prevention is.

[Dr. Tori Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. Celine Gelgich]

So hopefully that's a good little takeaway for you guys. That was fun. Yeah. All right, thanks so much for watching and listening. I always forget about that.

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