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Broadway Breakdown
2023 Tony Predictions (Part 2): SHUCKED, SWEENEY, LIFE OF PI & more w/ Adam Elsberry
02:19:15
Comparing Apples and Bacon
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Transcript829 lines
- [00:00]
Adam Ellsbury
Think of the prestige.
- [00:01]
Matt Koplik
Think of the respect.
- [00:02]
Adam Ellsbury
No, no, no. Think of the Tony.
- [00:12]
Matt Koplik
Hello all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history and legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. Normally, we do the big move, but we are currently doing our Tony series because guess what, y', all, it's puddin season. It's time for some pudding. And like John Miscavige and I said four years ago, it's time to compare apples and bacon. So let us bring on Gunkle of the pod, Adam Ilsbury, to discuss some more possible Tony nominations because also your host, your boy, the least famous and most opinionated host, Matt Koplik, has seen some more shows since the last episode. So we should talk about it. Hello.
- [01:00]
Adam Ellsbury
You're way more ahead than I am. You've seen far more than I have this season.
- [01:04]
Matt Koplik
I've seen a lot this season. The only thing I haven't seen that I officially missed was the collaboration.
- [01:11]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, I and I. Which I did see.
- [01:13]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Would you say that's an option for set design? I heard a lot about the screens in that.
- [01:20]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean, I wouldn't say no, but I also, it wasn't like there was a whole lot about was a unit set that was, that was his in Act 1. It was like a sort of gallery situation or the first part of Act 1. It was like a gallery situation. And then there were walls that sort of folded open to create Warhol's studio. And you just sort of sat there for the rest of the show. And they did use projection. There were screens on either side of the stage where they at intermission did sort of like a fake reel like the two actors had filmed their collaboration process of like painting. They painted onto the came essentially.
- [02:01]
Matt Koplik
Sure.
- [02:03]
Adam Ellsbury
But no, I mean it was, it was a nice looking set.
- [02:06]
Matt Koplik
So we talked about this last week with the theater lovers. First of all, Adam, how are you today?
- [02:11]
Adam Ellsbury
I'm, I'm, I'm feeling the awards season.
- [02:15]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's begun.
- [02:16]
Adam Ellsbury
I'm good. But I'm feeling it for, I mean, I don't, I don't know, it's not like you can't search on my social media and see what I do, but I, I, but I do work for a, for a Broadway press agency. So there's some stuff that I will remain mum on for this podcast. But honestly, we don't have anything that's. That I know is going to be a contender. That's that, that I would have anything really Ill to say about. I've. I've been pretty happy with what we've gotten to represent this year.
- [02:42]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And the stuff that you guys are representing are like big players. Not. Yeah, sort of like a shot in hell. But. Yeah, but this is where we get to have some fun. Uh, what have you seen recently, Adam, that is a contender this season? Let. Let.
- [03:02]
Adam Ellsbury
Let me pull up my Instagram. Well, the most recent thing I saw, I saw Shucked this past Friday. And I'll be going back again actually for tomorrow opening.
- [03:10]
Matt Koplik
Nice. I should probably have my review ready for opening.
- [03:13]
Adam Ellsbury
Mm, let's see. Shucked, Sweeney I saw back at the beginning of last month and then prior to that back in December was collaboration. But I. But I can. I can tell you what I've seen this season of Broadway stuff.
- [03:31]
Matt Koplik
Let's compare our Broadway stuff that we've seen this season, shall we?
- [03:35]
Adam Ellsbury
You are so far ahead of me, but yes. Okay. I saw into the Woods, Kimberly Akimbo and Juliet. I almost said Phantom of the Hopper, but that's not eligible this year, is it?
- [03:48]
Matt Koplik
I mean, best revival in three years, right?
- [03:52]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, my God. I hope that version doesn't come in some lick it hot collaboration. Sweeney Todd, Schecked. Those are the ones that. Those are the Broadway shows that I've seen so far this season. I know I've got a lot of catching up to do.
- [04:04]
Matt Koplik
Grand. So here's what I've seen and we'll just stick to Broadway because off Broadway, she ain't eligible this season.
- [04:11]
Adam Ellsbury
New.
- [04:12]
Matt Koplik
New musicals. We've seen Kimberly Akimbo, Some Like It Hot, Shucked and Juliet, Bad Cinderella, Almost Famous, K Pop, A Beautiful Noise, Sweeney Todd Parade, into the woods, 1776, Danson, the kite Runner, A Christmas Carol, Fat Ham, Ohio State Murders, Ain't no Mo, Pictures From Home, Leopoldstadt, Top Dog, Underdog, Life of PI. We just saw Life of PI. And we last week saw Shucked and Sweeney Todd as well and A Piano Lesson and I think that's it.
- [04:58]
Adam Ellsbury
This has been a packed season.
- [05:00]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's a lot.
- [05:02]
Adam Ellsbury
And there's still. How many things still have to open before the season completes. It's like 12.
- [05:07]
Matt Koplik
Well, so first of all, I am seeing A Doll's House a few days after this episode comes out. And then I am seeing Thanksgiving play a few days after that. I am not seeing Camelot until I believe the day of the nominations are announced. Or maybe like the day after Tuesday.
- [05:25]
Adam Ellsbury
The second, I think, is the nomination day.
- [05:27]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I believe I am seeing Camelot. Yeah, I'm Seeing Camelot on the second. So the day of the nominations, that's a potentially fun. Yeah, well. So yeah, we can get into that in a second because I've. I've heard some things and I'm sure you've heard some things and I just spoke to someone today about it as well. The only. So what? It has to still open. First of all, Prima Faci still has to actually start previews and then open summer of 1976 starts previews tomorrow, I believe. That's. That's Laura Linney, Jessica Hecht.
- [05:59]
Adam Ellsbury
Right.
- [06:00]
Matt Koplik
Shucked opens. We are recording this on Monday, April 3rd. Shucked opens tomorrow. Camel has to open and I think, I think that's it. No, Fatham has to open and that'll be it. That should be it. But yeah. Oh, no, sorry. And Thanksgiving Play. Thanksgiving Play has to open. So yeah, we still have a few. It's not quite the insanity of last season's April where it was literally a show a day. This is.
- [06:29]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, that's right.
- [06:30]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [06:30]
Adam Ellsbury
And things kept getting pushed back too because of. Because more and more shows still weren't covered, didn't have Covid coverage. So it was a lot of. It was a lot of people having to move their dates around.
- [06:42]
Matt Koplik
I think a lot of people learned from last season because the mentality used to be, well, if your show's a hard sell, you want to open towards the end of the season, get good reviews, get the Tony nominations and like one, two, bam. And that's proving less and less the case. I mean, you still have the shows that do open at the end of the season and do well. But you know, every time someone goes, oh, no show ever opens in the summer and does well, and I go, okay, Hamilton, Moulin Rouge, Hairspray, Hairspray, yeah, Hairspray really bucked that trend. And.
- [07:12]
Adam Ellsbury
Right. Well, because Hamilton had word of mouth and stuff like, I mean, Hairspray had an out of town, but it didn't have like the in town word of mouth that Hamilton had.
- [07:22]
Matt Koplik
I remember with hair. This is us off topic. But Hairspray, I remember what did it was Variety reviewed the Seattle run and basically said if they can shave off 15 minutes, they've got a classic here. And everyone was like, oh, like it wasn't even anything needed to be overhauled. Anyone needed to be recast. They were literally like just cut out 10 to 15 minutes and you're golden. And so it made everyone very interested. And I think Good Morning Baltimore had the demo of that, had made the rounds in New York. So Everyone was intrigued.
- [07:53]
Adam Ellsbury
There was that like three track demo CD that everybody had.
- [07:56]
Matt Koplik
And then it was. It was one of those truly word of mouth overnight things. Because I think you went. No. Someone, you know, went to the dress rehearsal of Hairspray in New York.
- [08:07]
Adam Ellsbury
Yes, that's true.
- [08:08]
Matt Koplik
Yes. And said that it was like every number brought down. The entire theater wasn't performative in a way that everyone genuinely was like, I can't believe I'm watching something where every song is a fucking banger. Yeah.
- [08:22]
Adam Ellsbury
No, it blew the roof off the joint.
- [08:25]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And overnight that thing just became the thing. But yeah, that was unlike A Chorus Line or Hamilton did not transfer to Broadway with so much buzz that it was already pre sold. Because even the movie itself, while that's the most popular John Waters movie, it's not like an industry onto itself. John Waters is not a household name that sells $30 million, $30 million worth of tickets. But we digress. How do we want to get into this, Adam? Do we want to cover a category? Do we want to cover a show and talk about where we think it may lie? I mean, you just saw Shocked if we kind of want to. And I just saw Shucked if we want to talk about that show.
- [09:02]
Adam Ellsbury
Sure. I mean, or, I mean, or do you want to do. We can do category and, and discuss shows within each category. I don't know.
- [09:10]
Matt Koplik
Let's start. So let's start with Shucked. I also want to. I think, yeah, I think we should start with Shucked and then let's do Sweeney and then going category to category.
- [09:19]
Adam Ellsbury
From there because there's some stuff we can probably breeze through pretty quick.
- [09:22]
Matt Koplik
A lot of play shit I can breeze through. There are.
- [09:25]
Adam Ellsbury
You're going to be. Have to be the one that does.
- [09:27]
Matt Koplik
It because here we are, you're alone. Honestly, for lack of what leading actor in a play is going to be a fascinating category to me? Because it is. There are so many stellar options and there are people who are going to just be. You know, six months ago I would have told you they could have been a front runner and now I'm convinced they could get shut out. And last year we had seven nominees, but that was such a freak of nature. That does. Yeah, yeah. Because it's supposed to be six if there are close enough votes in the pallying system for like the last two nominees. And that must have just been the case where like there were three that were, you know, one or two votes among them. So yeah, we'll see what happens. But yeah, let's let's start with Shucked and. And then we'll do category. So, Shucked, what do you think is that show's best chances at nominations?
- [10:23]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean, I feel like it's. I feel like it's, It's. It's set up to be pretty stacked in nominations maybe. I think the only category that it. Categories that it might have trouble in would be the acting categories, just in terms of where to put people because it's such an ensemble show. Like, even the lead, what I would call the leads aren't still feel more like they're part of an ensemble as opposed to like really leading the show. And I don't mean that in a shady way. It's like it's, It's. It speaks to their. It speaks to how well everyone works together in that show.
- [10:58]
Matt Koplik
I did not see Caroline. I saw Audrey in the role of what's her Face.
- [11:02]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, that's right.
- [11:03]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And she was very good. And I'm sure Caroline is wonderful.
- [11:06]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, she was really good.
- [11:08]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. But yeah, it's not really that. That is probably going to be the only role that'll be considered lead if I'm.
- [11:13]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, that's true.
- [11:14]
Matt Koplik
On the off chance the Tonys are like, no, Andrew Durand, he's. He's leading male. I'm like, okay, no, good for him. But I think that if they really do want to get him nominated, they would put him in featured. And that's not that he is a surefire thing with that. Just I think because there is so much competition in featured actor, it really go for anyone.
- [11:36]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, I. No, go ahead.
- [11:39]
Matt Koplik
Go ahead. No, go. Go ahead. I was going to say Caroline, while she is probably going to be the only thing considered lead, I don't see her getting nominated. I just don't think it's that kind of a role.
- [11:48]
Adam Ellsbury
It's. I, I don't disagree. And I think that's. I think it's more just because of how stacked that category is going to be from much more like front and center spotlight roles.
- [12:01]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Yeah. We will talk about leading actress in a musical in a second, honey. Because one of us might have put up his predictions again on Instagram and people had opinions and I want to address some of them. So. Okay, great.
- [12:16]
Adam Ellsbury
I can't wait to hear. Oh, but so for. For awards that I think it's. It's guaranteed musical for sure. Score for sure.
- [12:25]
Matt Koplik
Yep. Score for sure.
- [12:27]
Adam Ellsbury
It'll get book nomination.
- [12:29]
Matt Koplik
Totally. I think those are three things that, you know, you can't even put money down because it's just such easy money that no one will take your bet.
- [12:37]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. And I would say. I would say that it's a pretty strong chance that Jack o' Brien would get nominated for direction.
- [12:45]
Matt Koplik
Interesting. Okay, we'll get into that.
- [12:48]
Adam Ellsbury
I think mostly just because of how the evening moves. I think that he's always good at putting together a show, hairspray included, that really sort of, you know, moves well. And I think that he's done a nice job with this material because so much of it is. Is throwing jokes at the wall and hoping they'll stick for two and a half hours.
- [13:07]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah. Oh, he doesn't do a bad job with Chuck. No.
- [13:12]
Adam Ellsbury
There's bigger contenders. I know. I mean, he end up getting shut out just because there's so much else going on.
- [13:17]
Matt Koplik
Talk about bringing the knife to a gunfight. Director of a musical is like, who the fuck? And, well, and I should just say there are people who are major contenders in that category who I don't necessarily think are doing the exceptional work that has been touted in some of the reviews, but no one's asked me. But I will say it right. I did text with Adam the other day, and this is just my opinion, not Adam's, But I said, the New York Times out here giving out critics picks like it's candy. It's like the number of shows they gave critics picks to where I'm like, I saw and went, she was fine. She was not exceptional. She was fine. But we will get into some of that in a second.
- [13:52]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, there's been a lot of picks this season for sure.
- [13:55]
Matt Koplik
I'm off Broadway picks, too. I'm like, okay, Jan. But.
- [14:00]
Adam Ellsbury
But, oh, but other. Other lock nominations for it. I could see Derek McCl set nomination. The Barn's pretty cool.
- [14:09]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And there aren't a lot of majorly designed shows this season, you know?
- [14:13]
Adam Ellsbury
No, no.
- [14:14]
Matt Koplik
His set design. I knew it was Derek McLean. No, it's not Derek McLean. It's Scott Pask. Because I'm pretty sure. Because Scott Pask did the Visit, did he not? Because I got major the Visit vibes from it.
- [14:26]
Adam Ellsbury
How do we not know this?
- [14:27]
Matt Koplik
I'm almost positive it's Scott Pask. Who needs a playbill when you've got ibdb, right? It's. God, Pasc. It is Pasc.
- [14:36]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay, you win.
- [14:39]
Matt Koplik
I wasn't about winning.
- [14:41]
Adam Ellsbury
I know. I'm. I'm not. I. I wasn't. I was being facetious.
- [14:46]
Matt Koplik
You, facetious? I've never.
- [14:49]
Adam Ellsbury
I was just. I don't know Why I was okay. It doesn't matter. But, yeah, I think Scott Pass could get nominated for his set.
- [14:57]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Orchestrations. Sound.
- [15:00]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, I think. Oh, sound was great.
- [15:03]
Matt Koplik
So I saw Wednesday Matinee where the sound was a little in and out, but I chalked that up to just a bad day, I think.
- [15:10]
Adam Ellsbury
I think they made. If whatever it was, it was figured out by Friday, that sound was crystal clear. It was really, really good.
- [15:17]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. There are a couple of musicals this season where I'm like, oh, the sound design on this is great.
- [15:22]
Adam Ellsbury
I used to not notice it as much, but recently there have been so many shows where the sound has been crap that when you. That when you get a really good sound in a show, you're like, oh, oh.
- [15:34]
Matt Koplik
Do you mean Tinny Todd?
- [15:36]
Adam Ellsbury
It's a little Tinny.
- [15:37]
Matt Koplik
It's a little Tinny. That's gonna be my. The title of my review for Sweeney Todd, Tinny Todd.
- [15:44]
Adam Ellsbury
It's a big orchestra, though. We'd love to see it.
- [15:47]
Matt Koplik
But you can't tell because it sounds like it's playing from the other room. Yeah.
- [15:51]
Adam Ellsbury
Unless you're. Unless you're sitting in, like, the first six or seven rows.
- [15:53]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I was in row M of the orchestra. I was. I mean, I could not have been more center of the l'. Enfantin.
- [15:59]
Adam Ellsbury
Were you under the overhang, though?
- [16:01]
Matt Koplik
I was right in front of it. Right in front of it. I was like, yeah. But it just did not. I could hear the orchestra. I could. But it honestly more sounded like they really wanted us to hear all the lyrics, which I get. But also I want to be swimming in that music. I wanted to, you know, cover my entire body and felt like it was kind of bouncing off the walls a little bit and. Whereas the lyrics were, like, right in my face. But we'll get to Sweeney in a second. So. Shock. Musical book score, 1000% orchestrations, most likely sound, probably Alex Newell. This is. This, of course, depends on their decision.
- [16:44]
Adam Ellsbury
Their choice of. Yeah. Where they want to place them.
- [16:47]
Matt Koplik
Yes. Because I know Jay Harrison. Guy was consulted by the committee of where they would like to be put.
- [16:53]
Adam Ellsbury
And they said they chose best actor. Yeah.
- [16:56]
Matt Koplik
And then what's Her Face from. And Juliet May said, keep me out of it. And we respect that decision. I don't know Newell very well. I've met Newell once at a party. Very nice to me, anyway. And I. From the 45 seconds of nicest I had with Alex Newell, I feel confident in saying that they're going to want to be considered. So they're not going to. They're not going to pull a mate. They're going to say, no, get. Get my ass in there.
- [17:25]
Adam Ellsbury
And it's going to be May.
- [17:26]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's going to be May. Whatever category Newell chooses, I do think they will be in.
- [17:32]
Adam Ellsbury
Yes.
- [17:33]
Matt Koplik
I cannot guarantee a win yet. I do not desire to do that. But that is. That is later. That is in May. But I think whatever category they choose to be in, they will get nominated.
- [17:47]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, I mean, that. That one number in act one alone that they're giving is. It's pretty damn exciting.
- [17:55]
Matt Koplik
See. Okay. Yes, Totally agree. I. So here's my thing about Shucked, and I'll talk about this in my review, which I have to write in the next 48 hours, but I enjoyed Shucked a lot. I think I. I even texted you afterwards, like, it's fine. It's. It's fun. I went in really hopeful because some of the early reports, you know, I'm getting very. Some like, sorry, very. Something rotten deja vu with Shucked in this terms of.
- [18:23]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, yeah, you said that to me.
- [18:23]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Brand new musical. Early preview reports were like, holy shit, this thing is going to topple the Tesori musical. This is the next big thing. It's the next Mormon. And it's not really the next Mormon, because unlike Mormon, the plot doesn't really matter in Shucked. It's sort of incidental. And because of that. And that's fine. Like, they don't want the plot to matter. But if the plot mattered, I think it would take Shucked up to the next level. Because as it stands, it's mostly just a platform for one liners. And a third of them are pretty fantastic. The other two thirds are either your cup of tea or they're not.
- [18:57]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. Well, I mean, to your point, the. And you just mentioned this a minute ago, like, I have to say, my experience at the show was affected not by the. Anybody in the show, but by the people sitting around me who all felt like they had to prove that they got every joke that was being said, but in doing so, they missed some of the funniest lines because they were overreacting to things that were.
- [19:24]
Matt Koplik
Okay. Yeah. People.
- [19:27]
Adam Ellsbury
Is this. This is like a post. I. I hate. I hate when everybody's making excuses for post pandemic. But like this really. It feels very different lately.
- [19:36]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [19:36]
Adam Ellsbury
In the theater after and having returned and people are just. It's the Wild West.
- [19:45]
Matt Koplik
So. Yes, it's. Audiences for a while now very much have been like, I paid all this money I am going to make sure that this was worth it. And now it's that. Plus, we didn't have Broadway for a year and a half now. Every show has to be exceptional because we have to support Broadway.
- [20:07]
Adam Ellsbury
Right?
- [20:07]
Matt Koplik
And I'm like, first, this is a. We. We actually do have a pretty good and diverse season. Yeah. I'm also like, can we not say that everything's amazing? Because truly not everything is. But I mean, like, the audience response at fucking bad Cinderella, you would have thought that it was Oklahoma. In 1943, but only at the curtain call. They were trying real hard to enjoy it. But so many of those numbers got the most tepid applause and I've heard in years, Honestly, since. No, not years since Diana. Rather, I should say since the preview performance of Diana that I saw.
- [20:45]
Adam Ellsbury
I was gonna say, by the time I saw Diana, that audience was apeshit.
- [20:48]
Matt Koplik
Okay, so, so, so, so this kind of all ties into it. When I saw Diana, I saw it twice live, because why wouldn't I? And at the preview performance I saw, it was mostly bridge and tunnel crowd and a few gays. We gays were there, tipsy or drunk, so ready to enjoy ourselves, knowing what we were about to see. Because everyone knew the Netflix stuff. The bridge and tunnel crowd came in being like, fuck the critics, the Internet, those elitist assholes. It's Broadway. We're here. We're here to be supportive. Woohoo. Let's go. They woohooed for like the first two numbers. And then as each number continued, they got quieter and quieter. The gays got louder, but the. But the bridge and tunnel crowd got quieter. And then when they were like, they were on their feet, oh, my God, best thing I've ever seen. And I'm like, I guarantee you, you're going to go home and then at work tomorrow, you're going to go. It was pretty good. Not that it was the best thing you ever saw, but pretty good. But the cast wouldn't know it because you were cheering like they were, you know, Cher coming home at last. And I'm sort of sitting here going, you're not doing anyone any favors by treating the show you just saw as a masterpiece when you really don't actually think it was. If you want to treat the actors with respect, first of all, turn your fucking phone off. Don't talk during the show. If you must eat during the show, do it as quickly as possible. As the woman at Sweeney Todd, Adam, who made a three act play out of opening her bag of chips.
- [22:19]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, maybe she was the Same woman that sat behind me at Shucked. Because during the ballad at the top of Act 2 was when she chose to open her plastic bag of whatever the hell she was eating. And then it was like full on, you know, asmr Pickle Woman. It was like that level of chewing behind me.
- [22:36]
Matt Koplik
What a twat. So on that first, let's actually get into.
- [22:40]
Adam Ellsbury
So Shucked was great.
- [22:43]
Matt Koplik
The Alex Newell thing. So I want to say this because I may or may not have gone viral about a year ago from an Instagram post about. Is it a good song or are they just singing hi. And the truth is that I don't think that Alex's song is particularly great. I think that Alex has one of the livelier songs of the show.
- [23:01]
Adam Ellsbury
It's got a fun. It's got a fun hook.
- [23:03]
Matt Koplik
It's got a fun hook. She cute and Alex sings the absolute bejesus out of it. And it's really the first song since the opening number that has that same energy of like, we're here to see Shucked.
- [23:13]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [23:13]
Matt Koplik
And so there is a bit of that. That we haven't had a song like that until that moment. But I also don't want to undermine Alex's performance, which I think is really strong overall, because it's not just one song, like you would think. We were watching Melba Moore doing I Got Love for the first time, the way that audiences respond to it. Although the day I saw it, there were two little Twinkie college boys in the front row who jumped up before the song was over, looked around, trying to get people to applaud with them standing. And no one in the orchestra did. A few people in the mezzanine did. And then on a certain message board site that will remain nameless, someone claiming to be at my performance said the audience leapt to its feet at the end of Alex's number. And I was like, I was in that audience of 1300 people and 40 people leapt to their feet. Which is fine. I'm just saying. Why are you lying? Anyhow, we move on Tinnitod, as we're now going to start calling it.
- [24:14]
Adam Ellsbury
Let's see. Oh, what's it getting? What's it getting nominated for? Yeah, Revival. I think Robin will get nominated just because it's because of the role. Annalee will get a nomination because of the role I could see potentially. I mean, he's good, but I also maybe for slight, like, minor Celebrity Factor, give Gaten a nomination, depending on what that category is like.
- [24:40]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Before I saw the show, I had him as a definite nomination. Same thing with Ruthie. Just based off of reports that, like, they made such huge impressions and they still could. I think Gain has a much better shot than Ruthie does, if only because at the very least, we have a historical record of someone getting a Tony nomination for Tobias. So far, no one who's played the Becker woman has gotten nominated, which is insane to me that Merle Louise was not nominated. But here we are. Tom Kail is going to get nominated. Fine. As I said on my Instagram, it's big. It's Sondheim, it's Sweeney. That is the Broadway equivalent of I don't have to apply to your college. My grandfather paid for the entire campus.
- [25:26]
Adam Ellsbury
Right, right. Because we're still in. We're still in post memoriam.
- [25:31]
Matt Koplik
Yes.
- [25:32]
Adam Ellsbury
Sondheim appreciation.
- [25:33]
Matt Koplik
And he does a perfectly fine job of directing traffic, you know.
- [25:37]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [25:37]
Matt Koplik
It's a big production. It's very respectful. I. I'm trying to hold that because I have a review to write. They don't do really anything particularly new outside of the Choreo, which is not even that exciting, in my opinion.
- [25:51]
Adam Ellsbury
It's fine. You know, when I. I'll say one of my biggest question marks is why they opted for the entire ensemble to be dressed as middle class. Yeah, I. I mean, I. Because I don't need the entire cast to be, like, in that original role has, like, rolled in dirt from head to toe. But, like, it just. It didn't feel. Especially once when you get to, like, little priests and you're like, oh, they're serving anyone. So you should be getting a variety of customer types and you're only just seeing these middle class people throughout this entire show.
- [26:29]
Matt Koplik
There's also those above will serve those down below. And when everyone's middle class, we're not going. You know, the high society is feeding the poor.
- [26:39]
Adam Ellsbury
That's right.
- [26:40]
Matt Koplik
Well.
- [26:40]
Adam Ellsbury
And everyone. Right. And. And also just the. What was I. What am I. What am I trying to say? The. I don't know. I just. I would have liked more variety in the costumes. I felt like it kind of took. It sort of took away from the creepy factor for me, too. Like, I felt. It felt sort of clean and nice.
- [27:04]
Matt Koplik
And there was nothing creepy about this production. But again, I'll get into it. In my. In my review, this was the least weenie I've ever seen.
- [27:11]
Adam Ellsbury
Count. Agreed. Count. Count me in on the people who've been doing Whistlegate online. I really wish that the whistle was there because in a space that big, you need to Scare the crap out of people. And unless you've got, you know, it's not Cats, you don't have people running around with flashlights, pointing them in people's faces. You've got to scare them audibly.
- [27:33]
Matt Koplik
It doesn't feel like this production wants to scare people, though, which is a.
- [27:37]
Adam Ellsbury
Shame, because, Yeah, I don't. Musical thriller.
- [27:40]
Matt Koplik
Literally a musical thriller. This. Okay, so this is what, like, is kind of confusing and frustrating to me because I think just objectively, we are predicting here. We're not going off of my own personal taste or what I thought of the show, but just how this show is going to do. Nominations, wise and objectively. I can see it getting, like, minimum. 10, maybe, you know, if I'm being really harsh. Minimum.
- [28:04]
Adam Ellsbury
That many.
- [28:05]
Matt Koplik
Well, first of all, there aren't that many big shows on either side of the coin, musicals or plays that have, like, these big designs. So even though. Even though I find the set very basic and people are like, no, it's simple but effective. I'm like, it's a bridge. It's a bridge done at a diagonal. Whoopty fucking do. And I love Mimi. Her. Her designs in the past have been extraordinary. And I don't need the most elaborate Sweeney, but I need surprise. I need movement. And that set for me was a little lumbering, especially the fucking hook thing that twirls around the. It reminded me of.
- [28:40]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, they're bringing the chair in.
- [28:43]
Matt Koplik
No, that too. But it's like that little tower thing on the side. It reminded me of Gaelics on. On Doctor who. Is that what they're called?
- [28:51]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah. It also looks like. Like the radio tower from the Simpsons.
- [28:57]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's. The set just does not do it for me. The costumes, you know, period appropriate, fine, but as you said, no variety. There was no variety in social class. The lighting, I thought, was the most effective. It had a creepy element to it that the production not have.
- [29:13]
Adam Ellsbury
I. I would. I would give Natasha Katz a lighting design nom.
- [29:17]
Matt Koplik
I think they're going to get nominated for all three just because, like.
- [29:20]
Adam Ellsbury
Because it's so big.
- [29:21]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I mean, but it's not. I mean, I think that the design of Parade is actually far more effective than the design of Sweeney Todd. I mean, and we'll get to personal picks in a second, but, like, Parade for me is truly the revival right now of the season in the sense of, like, Sweeney Todd is the objectively better musical needs of units. News flash, y'. All. It's Sweeney Todd. She good. And I find Parade to be kind of parade to be. I find to be a little frustrating because there's so many things about it that are phenomenal. And then like I'll. I. Every time I see the show, I walk away dry eyed. I never cry because I just don't find it overall moving. It's, it's hard to sit through. It's very heart wrenching. It's, it's, you know, engaging. But I don't walk away like wiped out. This revival probably does the best job of any production I've seen so far, minus the Mary Fagan swing, but the like. The design is gorgeous. I think Arden does a really good job staging it and adding dramatic stakes to it. And Sweeney, I'm like you. To quote Big Red from Bring it on this year should have been cake. Tommy Kale. I picked an idiot proof routine, hand picked the squad Platter Nationals, hello. And it's like you've got a 26th orchestra, Sweeney Todd and a great cast. Why am I not on the edge of my seat? Why am I just sort of sitting.
- [30:41]
Adam Ellsbury
There going, okay, yeah, I'm with you.
- [30:44]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's a Sweeney Todd that you can bring grandma to, which is ironic because my grandma walked out of the original Sweeney Todd. But yes, Annelie and Josh will absolutely get nominated. Those are roles that just always get nominated.
- [30:58]
Adam Ellsbury
As far as the rest of the cast, I don't know that anybody else in the cast will necessarily get nominated.
- [31:02]
Matt Koplik
Gaten and Rufy have shots at it again. And also because those categories, featured actor and actress have so many potential nominees that it really up in the air. Yeah, it's nuts. Yeah. Tom will get nominated, the design will get nominated. If they get nominated for sound, I call fucking Shenanigans. God damn shenanigans. They also should get a, a negative Tony nomination for Dialect Coach, which I also feel a little bit of with Parade, just with one performer in particular, but Sweeney, I'm just like, oh, so.
- [31:40]
Adam Ellsbury
It truly is my friend. Well, I should say friend of the Pod, Dom Hanlon, who you haven't met yet. My British friend. He works in theater publishing in London.
- [31:51]
Matt Koplik
He's a friend of the Pod.
- [31:53]
Adam Ellsbury
Friend of the Pod, Dom Hanlon. Hey, Dom.
- [31:55]
Matt Koplik
Hey, Dom.
- [31:56]
Adam Ellsbury
He'll be out here next week, but anyway, he was listening to an audio of Sweeney, a live audio of Sweeney and his opinions of. He gets so angry at Americans doing British accents. But the Annalee one in particular, he's just so massively offended by. And I'm like, did you see Kinky Boots?
- [32:17]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's the same. What were you expecting? Yeah, same bad accent. So I will say as a. As a sneak peek of my review with Annalee, I have not made it a secret that I was not thrilled about her casting in that revival when they announced it. And then if anyone listened to the Doubt episode with myself and Alessandra Gordon, I'm trying to be a little more respectful, and Ali is just full on being like, let's not talk about it, because I'm going to get angry. And I will say without going too far into it, did not hate her, but she give the exact performance I expected her to give that. Yes. And I. But I also went in hopeful because I had heard from a lot of people, oh, career best performance. You've never seen her like this before. And then I went with my friend who's a Tony voter and does listen to this podcast, won't say his name, but hello. And he went in being like, I don't think she can. He said to me point blank, I don't think Annalee can do wrong. Like, every time I see her, I think she. She's extraordinary. And I'm like, okay, we're gonna have interesting opinions on this show. We walked out. He was pretty team Groban. Even though he did, he. He admitted that Groban wasn't scary, but he thought that Groban was extraordinary. And he said that Annalee was good, but he was a little underwhelmed. And I was so surprised because I. Groban sings the score super well, and he sings a great epiphany. I would not say he performs a great epiphany, but he sings it well. And I actually was into him for the first, like, 20ish minutes when Sweeney comes home. Because that is when Sweeney is sort of a shell of a man, not sure what it is that he's coming home to. And I thought that Groban, if not necessarily nailed the assignment, was in the ballpark of the assignment. It's when Sweeney snapped and has to go insane. And like a demon on a mission, where I went, he's not a demon. He's just pissed off. Right.
- [34:17]
Adam Ellsbury
He's inconvenienced.
- [34:18]
Matt Koplik
Yes. He's. He's angry. Not crazy, but.
- [34:21]
Adam Ellsbury
Right.
- [34:22]
Matt Koplik
Anyway, we digress. So that's our Sweeney. Watch them get a choreography nomination. I will laugh my ass off. City on Fire. Adam, during City on Fire, when the ensemble was doing the quote unquote movement, I just wanted to shout, cool, crazy, go. Cool, crazy, go.
- [34:44]
Adam Ellsbury
It does have a little bit of a West Side vibe, doesn't it? But I will say it was a moment where it felt really kinetic and I was like, oh, I wish that the show up until now had felt a little more kinetic like this.
- [34:57]
Matt Koplik
Sure. There were also a bit of Strobe Light's effect on that. Or. No, that might have been right before when they.
- [35:02]
Adam Ellsbury
It was the lead in. It's the weird part. Going into Fogg's Asylum.
- [35:07]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. They were doing the ballad and they.
- [35:08]
Adam Ellsbury
Just started doing a range where they're trying to make you have a seizure.
- [35:12]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, yeah. I was like, oh, now we want to throw the audience off Tommy Kail. But 30 minutes in, you decide.
- [35:18]
Adam Ellsbury
No whistle.
- [35:20]
Matt Koplik
With no whistle. I truly, truly, truly. And I have no qualms against him. I have waited on this man many times at my old restaurant shop, and he is so lovely. He's always been so polite to me and I think his work on Hamilton is lovely. But I think that Thomas Kail should absolutely not win the Tony for absolutely butchering the Beatles death the way that.
- [35:43]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, yeah, it happened so fast and then it was over. And there was nothing scary about it.
- [35:47]
Matt Koplik
No, because he also. It doesn't fully die the way. The way that they do the shoot is stupid. And. And the way the guy who plays the beetle is so great. I'm forgetting his name.
- [35:58]
Adam Ellsbury
He's very good.
- [35:59]
Matt Koplik
John Rappin. Josh Rappin, Something like that. But, yeah, there's the way that they do it because he's, like, not fully dead. He comes out, he's kind of, like, jittery, and it's four seconds long, and they don't even spotlight it. And there's no whistle. It's not a jump scare. No one jumped or gasped. There were zero gasps in this Sweeney the night I saw it. And even when they do the Big Bedroom, no one gasped.
- [36:22]
Adam Ellsbury
There was. There was a gasp the night that I saw it and. And we laughed really hard, which was too bad because it was not a funny moment at all. Literally. End of the show.
- [36:35]
Matt Koplik
Oh, no.
- [36:36]
Adam Ellsbury
Pat him and prick him and mark him with a B and put him in the oven for Baby and Me. Gaten slices Josh's throat. Spoiler alert to anybody.
- [36:45]
Matt Koplik
If that's a story to you, get the fuck off my podcast.
- [36:48]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, it's. It's too late. But sliced his throat. And the woman next to me went. And I'm like, really? What the fuck did you think you were seeing? Also, how many other people have already died in this show prior to this happening?
- [37:04]
Matt Koplik
There are literally six dead bodies on stage. Bitch. And this is. You thought they were Groban, right?
- [37:10]
Adam Ellsbury
The guy that. Who's been murdering everyone for this entire show. You think that there isn't going to be like a redemption to get rid of him too?
- [37:16]
Matt Koplik
In a show where the literal poster, the artwork is nothing just but blood everywhere? I will say there was also reports of. Oh, there's no blood. I'm like, the night I saw it, there was blood. It wasn't extraordinary amounts of blood, but I've never seen a production of Sweeney where it was extraordinary amounts of blood there.
- [37:33]
Adam Ellsbury
I've seen. I've seen some that have had way more than this one, but there was. I. I saw blood the night that we.
- [37:39]
Matt Koplik
That I didn't like. I didn't like that they did Pirelli's death in silhouette. I thought that was a fucking cop out.
- [37:44]
Adam Ellsbury
I was also bummed. I know it's like a piece of stage business that's like, doesn't have to be part of the script, but I was also bummed that we didn't do Pirelli's hand Trapped in the trunk.
- [37:54]
Matt Koplik
I know. Well, that's. And that's the moment.
- [37:56]
Adam Ellsbury
It adds tension to that scene.
- [37:57]
Matt Koplik
It's tension for sure. It's absolute tension. I know. This was the least 10 Sweeney I've ever seen. I'm also just. I'm bitter because I'm seeing certain people I know who have been so nitpicky about so many shows in the last, like, just call this production exceptional and wonderful. And I'm like, this show fails on a multiple amount of levels. Like, does it some things quite well, does other things perfectly pleasantly. And I also don't want to make it seem like I hated this production. I didn't. This show is. This production is fine. But the fact that it's just fine kind of pisses me off. Especially because the Barrow street production, I thought was so fantastic. Anyway, moving on, let's get into next, please.
- [38:39]
Adam Ellsbury
Wait, are we doing next show? Are we doing another category?
- [38:41]
Matt Koplik
Well, the only other show I can really talk about. Oh, I can talk about two shows. I. I hinted at Bad Cinderella in the last episode. I since have also seen Fat Ham and I've now seen Life of PI. Both will get nominated for play. Both, I think, will probably get nominated for lead actor. I don't think Life of PI should get nominated for play. I think it's trying to be Warhorse esque, but it's not like Warhorse was a pretty okay script. Given an exceptional production. This is, in my opinion, a bad Script giving a pretty okay production. The puppets are cute. They're not the most inventive, but every now and then they work quite nicely. The lighting design is beautiful. The sound design and the score are lovely. The way they use the set is pretty cool, especially if we're including projections, which we do now. So, you know, here we are. And the lead actor was. Was good. There was some acting in that cast, though, that was pretty piss poor. And speaking of accents. Different accents abound. Different accents. Some were American, some were Indian, some were, you know, whatever. I was just like dialect coach. Anyone? Anyone? Please, for a dollar. Have you seen Fat Ham at all? Do you have any intention to?
- [39:55]
Adam Ellsbury
No, I. I would like to very much, but I haven't seen it yet.
- [39:58]
Matt Koplik
I will say for anyone who's on the fence about it, it's way more fun than you think it's going to be.
- [40:03]
Adam Ellsbury
And I. I've heard it's great.
- [40:05]
Matt Koplik
It's really good. It's. I was a little confused by the ending. I think I understand it better now, but I. I still don't know if I love it, but endings are hard to land sometimes. It plays, as we all know, but it is a really strong ensemble. It's very funny. You don't have to know Hamlet to enjoy it, but if you do know Hamlet decently, even just decently, it's. You'll like it. And I. There are a couple of acting nominations I think it could get. I think lead actor for sure. I think featured actor for the actor who plays the uncle and the dad. I'm forgetting his name, but, oh, boy, was I thirsting for him. I think he could absolutely get in. The actress who plays the mom is so great and she could get in. Oh, good. Yeah. Let's find. Let's pick a category. New category to talk about a new category. We were doing show by show, but now we're just going to do categories.
- [40:56]
Adam Ellsbury
All right, great. So, well, then let's. Then. Should we start from. I don't want to say the bottom. What's a good place to start? Should we go into. Start with, like, technical stuff that we can, like, fly through?
- [41:06]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [41:06]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay, great. I don't have a lot of opinion on this. You've seen more than I have in terms of, like, do you want. You've. You've already. We've already mentioned a couple sound design things. Not Sweeney Todd for you.
- [41:18]
Matt Koplik
I think if we're talking sound design of a musical parade. Kimberly Shucked. From what I hear something like it hot, maybe. And I hear Camelot. I think those would probably be the five.
- [41:30]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay, that makes. Yeah, that makes sense.
- [41:32]
Matt Koplik
Unless on some random occasion they decide K Pop because of like the stadium sound that they give that show. But I doubt it.
- [41:38]
Adam Ellsbury
I highly doubt it. I think everyone's already forgotten about K Pop.
- [41:42]
Matt Koplik
Well, don't say never just yet because we've got some categories where it could sneak into sound design of a play. Christmas Carol, Life of PI, probably Leopoldstadt Fatham, actually, I think will get a sound design nomination. They do a lot of stuff with the karaoke machine where they go back and forth.
- [42:01]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, fun.
- [42:01]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Between different sounds and I think that'll help it a lot. And then I don't know, the fifth one, maybe Prima Faci. I don't know that much about it, but it looks like they do a lot of stuff with sound design in that.
- [42:11]
Adam Ellsbury
All right.
- [42:12]
Matt Koplik
Considering it's a one woman show now. More technical stuff. Go up to lighting now. Sure.
- [42:17]
Adam Ellsbury
Lighting design. Musical.
- [42:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, lighting design of a musical parade. Sweeney Kimberly, maybe. And Juliet maybe.
- [42:32]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, and Juliet, maybe. I feel like nowadays. Well, but, but I was. I was gonna say nowadays people just pick things that have, you know, lots of lighting cues. But I guess that's not totally true because it is people who are in that field doing the nominating for those categories still, isn't it?
- [42:46]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, we'll see. At the nomination committee, they try to have it be diverse of everyone of different fields.
- [42:53]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay.
- [42:53]
Matt Koplik
I don't think it's the Oscars where below the line categories, only people in that field can vote.
- [43:00]
Adam Ellsbury
Got it.
- [43:01]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. It's the sole nominated committee. But I do know that the nominating committee does have, I believe they have like one big meeting before everybody votes where they kind of sort of talk about the season. And I think that helps sometimes with design categories where like a lighting designer can say, like, no, here's why you need to understand, like these three shows actually did really clever lighting because of XYZ and whether that makes an impact on everyone else. Who's to say? But it's like if you're a producer and you don't understand like that what so and so did here is actually really incredibly impressive. Same thing with sound design. You know, there are certain things that when you're in the theater, you can go, oh, wow, that was really impressive. But also, if you're not. I feel like also if you're not thinking about the sound design, that means it's doing it really well. Especially for a musical, if you can hear the orchestra. Well, if you can understand Every word. That sound designer deserves a nomination. You're going, what did Emily say? What did. Where's the band here? Yeah. I think Kimberly's vulnerable in a lot of design categories because it's a slightly more modern show and the most elaborate design. But I do think it's got sound. A chance at sound. I think it'll get orchestrations because it'll get nominated for score and that there are basically three ways to get nominated for best orchestrations. You are tied to a best score nominee. You are a jukebox musical doing something very new.
- [44:31]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, with all new arrangements and things. Yeah, yeah.
- [44:33]
Matt Koplik
Like. Like Girl from the north country or. Or mj, which. Yeah, that got an orchestration nomination. Or you are the revivalist revival and you are doing brand spanking new orchestrations for a score everybody knows. Which at the moment the only contender for that would be 1776. I. I'm not sure if Parade is eligible yet because I don't know that.
- [44:54]
Adam Ellsbury
It is because it. What did. Did it win the first time around or was orchestration not part of the Tony words?
- [45:01]
Matt Koplik
It was because I think the first. The first shows was Titanic. So Parade the year before.
- [45:07]
Adam Ellsbury
Yes.
- [45:07]
Matt Koplik
So Fosse won orchestrations over Parade that year. I think just like, oh, we have X number of musicians and we're making them, you know, deal with all these different sounding shows and is in that fluid. Sure, it'll be interesting to me. Not because the last time the orchestrations didn't win, but because it's technically based off of the original orchestrations. But JRB has repurposed it for a smaller size, I think only by three pieces. But still, that's not technically the same charts, right?
- [45:40]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, I don't. I don't know. We'll. I don't know, we'll see if that's eligible.
- [45:44]
Matt Koplik
If it's eligible, it'll get in. If it's not. Les, I'm gay.
- [45:48]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, but lighting.
- [45:50]
Matt Koplik
Lighting.
- [45:51]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, lighting. So you said Sweeney, Parade.
- [45:54]
Matt Koplik
Parade, Kimberly and Juliet.
- [45:57]
Adam Ellsbury
And then I would say maybe Some Like It Hot.
- [45:59]
Matt Koplik
Actually, probably Some Like It Hot. Yeah. Unless they decide to be super kind to dance in, which doesn't have good lighting, but it does have a lot of it.
- [46:11]
Adam Ellsbury
Well, then that could very well be the case.
- [46:13]
Matt Koplik
It could be. Listen, there's a world in which dancing weirdly gets three nominations or gets zero. Who knows? Lighting, Design of a play, Life of PI Christmas Carol, Leopold, Probably Death of a Salesman. And then. See, this is where I still need to see like three more. The. I feel like there's talk of Prima Faci. Or, you know, people could talk about Ohio State Murders because that show is actually weirdly overly designed. But I feel like Ohio State Murders is just going to get Audra and be thankful for it. The collaboration. Was there lighting to remember in collaboration?
- [46:53]
Adam Ellsbury
No, it was. It was pretty straightforward. Okay.
- [46:56]
Matt Koplik
Oh, you know what? We'll probably. What or not probably. What might get a sound design nomination for a play is Peter Pan Goes Wrong, and when you see it, you'll.
- [47:04]
Adam Ellsbury
Gotcha.
- [47:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. They do a lot of jokes with sound cues in that show, so that'll help. Yeah. I also think they'll get a set design nomination, which they got for Play that Goes Wrong. And they could possibly get a costume design nomination for all those, you know, Lost Boys and Hook and all the quick changes that what's Her Face, Nancy Zamit has to do. It's. It's quite fun.
- [47:29]
Adam Ellsbury
So then lighting is. Oh, you just did lighting design of a play. Yes. Okay, Then set design of a musical.
- [47:37]
Matt Koplik
Okay. Set design of a musical. Some Like It Hot.
- [47:41]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [47:43]
Matt Koplik
Camelot.
- [47:45]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. Do you think Sweeney just because of the size of it, or do you think that they're gonna go, it's too simple?
- [47:51]
Matt Koplik
I'm only trying to think of, like, original musicals that could take its place. And there are other. So. Oh, New York.
- [47:57]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, shucked. I think. Oh, right. We keep forgetting about New York, New York.
- [48:00]
Matt Koplik
You do. And I keep hearing good things about it, so it's surprising.
- [48:03]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, I do. Sorry. New York, New York. You're totally on my radar. I just completely forgot. Oh, because I would bet that they're going to end up getting nominated for all of the technical categories.
- [48:16]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah. Well, they're going to get choreography nomination, set costumes, possibly lighting, orchestrations, for sure. Possibly sound. Right. And then probably musical. Yeah. Whether they get a best book nomination depends on how people feel about Camelot. And if we're finally ready to give Aaron Sorkin a Tony nomination, are they.
- [48:39]
Adam Ellsbury
Gonna consider him eligible for it?
- [48:41]
Matt Koplik
I think they're. He's. I believe he's the only one credited for the book in this revival. So this could be a. What's this Douglas Carter Bean situation where.
- [48:51]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, interesting.
- [48:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. I have a feeling at least half of the book in Camelot right now is Sorkin.
- [49:04]
Adam Ellsbury
Honestly, I wouldn't know the difference either way. Although, I mean, maybe his. His dialogue is very specifically Sorkin, but, like, I don't know Camelot at all, so.
- [49:15]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, that's not true.
- [49:16]
Adam Ellsbury
I know a couple of songs, but I don't know. The. The. The show itself.
- [49:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's a lovely score, but anywho. We'll see. We'll see, we'll see. But so, yeah, set design. Okay, so if you think. If you think Shucked is gonna.
- [49:29]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay, well, we said New York, New York also.
- [49:32]
Matt Koplik
Yes, it's New York, New York. Some Like It Hot Camelot. It's three, so there's Shucked.
- [49:40]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, and Juliet might get a set design nomination.
- [49:43]
Matt Koplik
Could. I don't love.
- [49:44]
Adam Ellsbury
There's a turn. I know. But there's a turntable.
- [49:46]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, we love turntables. I'm. I'm in the minority of people that really like the Kimberly set. I think that it's does exactly what it's supposed to do. It sets the tone. It. It has a couple of surprises in it. If it's not the most, like, clever of sets or, like the most overly designed of sets, I think it does exactly what it's supposed to do and could sneak in there in the same way that Bob Crowley accidentally won set design for once, you know?
- [50:12]
Adam Ellsbury
Right.
- [50:13]
Matt Koplik
Not. Not accidentally, but, like, no one saw that coming. Or like when whoever won for the Ferryman won for the Ferryman, that kind of thing where it's like. It's a rather. It's not the most elaborate of sets, but sometimes that's. If it. If it fits the piece really well, that can really hit with nominators and voters. So, yeah. Design of a play, Seeing Design of Play, Life of PI. Leopoldstadt, Christmas Carol. I had two others. Oh, I mentioned collaboration, but you said maybe no fat ham could get in there. Weirdly, it's not. It has one major surprise towards the end, but also, they do a lot of fun things with the entrances. For Juicy's dad, when he's the ghost and he enters the stage, he has a couple of really creative entrances, and that could do it for them. Or ain't no mo. Maybe for set design or.
- [51:13]
Adam Ellsbury
Excuse me. Or. Oh, God, I literally just had another one in my mind. Piano Lesson.
- [51:19]
Matt Koplik
God, I hope not. I thought that set ruined it, but it is. It is.
- [51:24]
Adam Ellsbury
They could win for the piano.
- [51:27]
Matt Koplik
Well, okay, I will. I will say that the piano itself was actually wonderfully designed.
- [51:32]
Adam Ellsbury
It was beautiful. Aren't they putting it in a museum?
- [51:35]
Matt Koplik
I think so, yeah. It means. Yeah, piano. It's. It's scarier than anything in Sweeney Todd. But that. I mean, the house for Piano Lesson I thought was all wrong. It's very designy. But it. It. It. The whole point of the ghosts in Piano lesson is that you're not sure if they're real or not until the last five minutes. And moment that curtain comes up, you go, oh, that's a haunted house.
- [52:04]
Adam Ellsbury
Welcome, foolish mortals.
- [52:06]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's like werewolf bar mitzvah. Spooky, scary. Costume design. Costume design of a musical.
- [52:18]
Adam Ellsbury
I'll be shocked if Greg Barnes didn't get a nomination for Someone Like It Hot. Yeah, I feel like Greg Barnes is always kind of a shoe in who I would imagine. I would guess New York, New York costumes will get nominated just because it's a period piece.
- [52:32]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, period. That's a great question. Who also, who does the costumes for and Juliet? Because I feel like that'll get into.
- [52:41]
Adam Ellsbury
That's a. It's got to be a UK designer.
- [52:46]
Matt Koplik
Donna Zakowska.
- [52:49]
Adam Ellsbury
Is and Juliet.
- [52:50]
Matt Koplik
No. Is New York, New York.
- [52:53]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, I don't know that person.
- [52:55]
Matt Koplik
They did the costume designs for the play, relatively speaking. So congrats. All right.
- [53:01]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean, moving on up.
- [53:05]
Matt Koplik
And the costumes for and Juliet are by Paloma Young. She'll get nominated. Oh, we like Paloma.
- [53:15]
Adam Ellsbury
Yes, we do.
- [53:16]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. So, yeah, I think and Juliet. Some Like It Hot. New York, New York, Camelot. And then the fifth one, Sweeney or Parade, probably. And I would probably give it to Parade if they're not as immediately impressive as Sweeney Todd. They are far more appropriate. Unless everyone did a line of coke and said, you know what? Had a lot of color. That's Cinderella.
- [53:42]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean, I have not seen it. I have seen photos of some of those costumes, and some of them are very beautiful.
- [53:49]
Matt Koplik
Which ones?
- [53:52]
Adam Ellsbury
You are, like, full shading me right now. I think that the ball gowns. A lot of the ball gowns are really pretty.
- [53:58]
Matt Koplik
Okay. I will say, having seen the show, having seen that girl, which, by the way, for anyone who has read my beautiful review, is not the garbage disaster that the reviews would have you make it out to be. It is not good. It's not even mediocre. It's just bad. It's. It just sits there being bad. And you go, at the very least, Andy, make a bold decision so I can sit here and call it camp. You don't even do that.
- [54:26]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. There's nothing more disappointing than when a bad musical is just boring.
- [54:30]
Matt Koplik
So fucking boring. There are a handful of moments where it is camp, but they are not often enough. And honestly, it feels more like Grace McLean and Carolee Carmelo are turning to the audience, being like, isn't this just like Pink Flamingos? And we're sitting there being like, you've Never seen Pink Flamingos. You've heard about it, you've never seen it. And I love both of those women dearly, trying so hard to make that show come alive. And it's just a losing battle. Losing battle. They could. They could get a costume design nomination. Diana got one. And that girl was in a refrigerator box at the end of Act 1. So here we are.
- [55:08]
Adam Ellsbury
So there you go.
- [55:09]
Matt Koplik
And nominated for a semi canceled William Ivy Long at the time, so.
- [55:12]
Adam Ellsbury
That's right.
- [55:14]
Matt Koplik
Sometimes we do what we do and.
- [55:17]
Adam Ellsbury
You still get a Tony nomination.
- [55:18]
Matt Koplik
I would. I would give Kimberly Akimbo a costume nomination for the Candy Necklace alone, but here we are. But I know some people are mad that the show choir doesn't have a tearaway costume at the end, so maybe that'll do them in.
- [55:32]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, Lord.
- [55:34]
Matt Koplik
Well, after they talk so much about how they want to raise money so they can get tearaway costumes, and then in the end, they don't even have tearaway costumes. I'm sorry. In Great Adventure, the last thing I want is a reveal. I'm just going to sit there crying. Thank you very much.
- [55:48]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. I mean, yeah. Unless they did a costume reveal at the curtain call.
- [55:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. It's like Eliza doing a cooter slam in the middle of Burn. You know, it's like. I love it, but not necessary right now.
- [56:00]
Adam Ellsbury
I need to see that.
- [56:06]
Matt Koplik
You goes, what's. What's the leg? She goes, you bob. Oh, you forfeit all rights to my heart when she does that. She'll. Yeah, you forfeit all rights to buy slam.
- [56:19]
Adam Ellsbury
Huh?
- [56:19]
Matt Koplik
And all the games will just go work. Cunt. Anyway. All right. Costner's end of a play. Me Leopoldstadt for the win. Christmas Carol probably. Maybe Fat Ham for the very end, but we'll see. I don't think. What else is there? I know nothing about Thanksgiving play other than apparently Katie Finneran is hysterical.
- [56:41]
Adam Ellsbury
I've heard both of the women are very funny. I'm excited to go.
- [56:45]
Matt Koplik
Very excited. Doll's House is all contemporary costumes, isn't it? Or not.
- [56:50]
Adam Ellsbury
From what I can tell. I haven't. I haven't seen it yet. And from. Yeah, it looks like everyone is in relatively either contemporary garb or like, at least all black. Like there's not much defining about it.
- [57:04]
Matt Koplik
And might get in there for costumes.
- [57:07]
Adam Ellsbury
I was gonna say maybe Piano Lesson because it's a period piece.
- [57:10]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Ain't no mo. Probably because there's a lot of costumes in that show. And it goes all over the gambit in terms of time period and Genre, So it could. It could get. I'm very interested to see what ends up happening with Ain't no Mo with nominations because I feel like it could either get a surprisingly large number or almost get completely shut out.
- [57:29]
Adam Ellsbury
I would have really liked to have seen that show. I'm. I'm. I'm bummed for them that it didn't do well.
- [57:35]
Matt Koplik
Well, this is why you decently. This is why you don't get celebrities to produce your Broadway show. They know nothing about Broadway. Producing a NOMA was. Was good. It was 15 minutes too long. Every sketch should have ended five minutes earlier, but it was pretty good. And Crystal Lucas Perry was great. It was overall a very strong cast, but I think Crystal has a good shot at a nomination in featured actress. Moving on up, we mentioned orchestrations a little bit. I think if we have nominees and, you know one of them isn't going to go to a score nominee, it's probably going to be and Juliet for how they incorporate. Oh.
- [58:14]
Adam Ellsbury
For their new arrangements of stuff. Yeah.
- [58:16]
Matt Koplik
Kimberly Akimbo, Some Like It Hot, Probably Shucked, and then number five. Oh, no. What if it's Beautiful Noise?
- [58:25]
Adam Ellsbury
Who knows? It could be. It could. I mean. Well, I mean. Or to your point. Well, wait, what's. Isn't there a play that has music this season?
- [58:35]
Matt Koplik
There are a couple of plays that could get nominated for score, but none of them have live orchestras. And that's the thing.
- [58:42]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay.
- [58:43]
Matt Koplik
I think you need.
- [58:43]
Adam Ellsbury
It has to be a lot. It has to be live instrumentation.
- [58:46]
Matt Koplik
I'm pretty sure.
- [58:47]
Adam Ellsbury
Got it. I mean, that makes sense. Yeah.
- [58:49]
Matt Koplik
I mean, Danson could get in there more on a technicality of just the fact of, you know, adapting all these different styles into new styles because it's. Fosse reinvented.
- [58:59]
Adam Ellsbury
I was gonna say if Fosse won it last time, then maybe we'll see Danson get nominated with it again.
- [59:05]
Matt Koplik
It could absolutely happen. Oh, wait, wait. Do we. Do we say New York, New York? I don't think we said New York, New York.
- [59:09]
Adam Ellsbury
No, probably New York, New York.
- [59:11]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. There we go. That's a. That's. That's our five. Our five orchestrations will mirror our five best musical nominees.
- [59:17]
Adam Ellsbury
I will be sitting anticipating a banjo at any moment during that show, and I can't wait.
- [59:23]
Matt Koplik
During New York, New York. Yeah.
- [59:25]
Adam Ellsbury
Because if it's a John Kander score and I don't hear a banjo at least once, I'll be very disappointed. That's fair.
- [59:31]
Matt Koplik
But he doesn't. There's orchestrations.
- [59:33]
Adam Ellsbury
I know, but his Shows generally have a very recognizable sound to them.
- [59:40]
Matt Koplik
Sure, sure, sure, sure. Is there a banjo in Steel Pier? Probably.
- [59:44]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, yeah. You hear it ripping up during Everybody's Girl during the key change.
- [59:50]
Matt Koplik
Okay, before I forget, let's take a break.
- [59:53]
Adam Ellsbury
Really?
- [59:54]
Matt Koplik
I beg to differ with you. How do you mean? You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble thread of the feet of thread. And we're back.
- [60:11]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, my God. I took a nap.
- [60:13]
Matt Koplik
I think this is the first time, Adam, with you being on the podcast. Granted, I've only been on a network for, you know, six months now. This is the first time I remembered to take a break when talking to you. I usually get so caught up. And granted, I. I took the break far too late in the episode and I have to do one more before we close out, but here we are.
- [60:32]
Adam Ellsbury
We'll probably need a pee break at some point anyway.
- [60:34]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, you with your bladder and age, you're gonna need to pee at some point.
- [60:39]
Adam Ellsbury
Always, always.
- [60:44]
Matt Koplik
Always. Director of a musical. Let's just get into her.
- [60:47]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay, so Susan Stroman, you think? I think so. I've heard. I've heard that it's really slick.
- [60:58]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. What? I've heard that. That it's wet and slippery and smooth. Okay, so let's. Let's look at the potentials. Or, like, the realistic potentials, I should say.
- [61:09]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. Yeah.
- [61:10]
Matt Koplik
Of the originals, we have Jessica Stone for Kimberly.
- [61:14]
Adam Ellsbury
She will get a nomination.
- [61:16]
Matt Koplik
I think she will, too, because it's only. Only Titanic in 1997 has there been a Best Musical winner. Not nominated for director. And if Kimberly is the front runner for Best Musical, and I truly believe it is, I still have to see New York. New York. But I've seen everything else, and I just. Based off of the reviews, based off of the commercial reception so far, and then the community reception, it just. It feels like it's Kimberly.
- [61:42]
Adam Ellsbury
And her direction is just so lovely. It's so nice.
- [61:46]
Matt Koplik
I know people who were disappointed because it wasn't staged, quote, unquote, inventively. I think her staging is perfectly fine. It's not. It doesn't call attention to itself. But also, her work with the actors is so good.
- [61:59]
Adam Ellsbury
That was gonna be my point. I think that her work really shows in the scenes between those characters where you really got. But speaking of tension, there's this scene where they're at the revolving dinner table, and that scene is incredibly tense.
- [62:14]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And that wasn't done that Wasn't done off Broadway to revolve. That's what they added for Broadway, which I was so glad they did. Yeah. That whole scene is done so well. And also. Oh, God. We'll talk about this with choreography. I wish that more people would pay attention to the choreography and Kimberly Akimbo, because it's very. It's used sparingly, but when it's done, it's done so effectively. And it's mostly the show choir, but with how they are used, framing the stage during the turn we take the turn, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So fantastic. It's like. It's. That is, for me, is what musical theater is. It's a moment of tension, humor and tension that is presented to us through a simple revolve that is direction, actors, also direction, music that is underscoring dissonance. And then the framing of the show choir. Kids doing very simple dance movements. I'm like, this is just fucking perfection. I love it.
- [63:09]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [63:10]
Matt Koplik
Sorry.
- [63:10]
Adam Ellsbury
Jessica Stone's gonna get a nomination. We're saying it. It's happening.
- [63:13]
Matt Koplik
We're saying it. She's gonna get nominated. I think Michael Arden is absolutely a lock for Parade and front runner. As I said on Instagram, it is the revivalist of all the revivals this season, and it's very much a director showcase. And this will be, I think, his third nomination, possibly fourth. If he gets in for Christmas Carol, we'll get to that in a second, and he could win for Parade, but I think Jessica Stone is still in there. I think Kale will probably get in because it's Sweeney and it's big and he's well liked. Which leaves us with two. Stroh. Stroh for New York. New York.
- [63:49]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [63:50]
Matt Koplik
I think the other ones we have to consider. Luke Shepard for and Juliet Bart Sher for Camelot.
- [63:58]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, yeah. He seems. I mean, he's like one of those just for posterity nominations.
- [64:05]
Matt Koplik
He does a musical revival at Lincoln center, and they go, yeah, here you go. And he. He gets more. He gets nominated more often than he does not. Same thing with Casey Nicholaw with Some Like It Hot.
- [64:17]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [64:18]
Matt Koplik
He gets nominated for director more often than he doesn't. And I think that's important to remember moving forward, because the only other potential would be Wayne Cilento. No, Wayne Salento's not getting nominated for Dancing. Not one fucking bit.
- [64:34]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, I thought we were just. I thought we were just naming directors. Sorry.
- [64:37]
Matt Koplik
We are for Indonesia.
- [64:38]
Adam Ellsbury
I guess I misunderstood the assignment.
- [64:41]
Matt Koplik
Leer for into the woods would be the only other option. And I brought this up last week. I mentioned on. On Instagram today, I have a very hot take when it comes to this revival of into the woods and its Tony chances, which is that I really don't think it's going to do as well with nominations as people think. It closed a little too long ago. The original company that opened it left way earlier than we remember.
- [65:08]
Adam Ellsbury
Right.
- [65:09]
Matt Koplik
And even though it is on tour right now, there are revivals happening in New York right now that are making a much just as big as flashes into the woods did over the summer. But they're also just, you know, they're here.
- [65:21]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. They're. They're fresh in people's minds.
- [65:23]
Matt Koplik
Parade, Sweeney, Camelot. Those are the three. And. And I'm not going to spill tea. I'm not going to spill tea. But I. And I mentioned this on Insta a while ago, and people asked me what I meant by this, and I said, I'm not telling you, but this is the. The thing with Lear is that she had a really, really shitty first season at Encores. It started off terribly, and that's not an. Oh, that's not a secret. Everyone knows it was rough. It was rough. And into the woods happened and was good, and everyone breathed a sigh of relief. And it be. And then the, the, the narrative became, oh, this is the best into the woods that's ever been. Oh, it's brought the show back. I think that I have only been able to think of this revival as the production of into the woods that made people who didn't like it before like it because they don't do anything with it. They just did the show.
- [66:19]
Adam Ellsbury
Right.
- [66:19]
Matt Koplik
And surprise, surprise, into the woods is a good musical.
- [66:22]
Adam Ellsbury
But I also, I mean, whether or not you liked this revival and I, I liked it well enough, but, like, but it killed me every time someone would be like, it's the best production of into the Woods I've ever seen. And I'm like, no. The best production of into the woods you've ever seen is the 1990 PBS Great Performances telecast. That's the best production of into the woods you've ever seen. Don't lie to me.
- [66:46]
Matt Koplik
No. Anyone. Someone tried to pitch me that Patina Miller found pathos in the witch that Bernadette didn't. To which I said, are you absolutely kidding me? If there's one thing Bernadette Peters can do, it's find pathos in literally anything. But. And, And Patina is not a pathos gal. She does not lead with that foot. But I actually did. But I did like patina. This is to say this is sort of the tea that I'm going to hint at is that even with woods having done so well for them at the very end of that season, Lear has not been given a clean slate with her new season at Encores. Her board of directors have pretty much told her she's not allowed to do what she wanted because what she wanted blew up so badly. And even though woods came off well, they're like, this is not. This is not such a success that you get to start over again. We are telling you how you're going to do the seasons from now on. So that tells you a little bit about how she's thought of. And then there might be another musical she recently worked on that has not gone over well that she may or may not have been asked to leave from. So I do not think that the general communal vibe on Lear is all that strong, which is why, even though she is technically contender, I'm not gonna put her name down.
- [68:10]
Adam Ellsbury
Yes.
- [68:11]
Matt Koplik
Sorry. That was a long way to get back to where we're getting to. I think Stroman is so much more well liked and respected. And from what I understand, her work in New York. New York is very good. Casey is very well liked and respected. I can see a world in which we have Arden Stone, Kael Stroh, and Nicola. Or Bart gets in over Casey because Casey choreography nomination.
- [68:36]
Adam Ellsbury
And to your. I mean, to your point before, it's it all so many times, more often than not. And it does happen, but more often than not, it's all about what's fresh in people's minds and still running.
- [68:47]
Matt Koplik
Yes. When you look at stuff. And we'll get to this with acting in a second. When you get to stuff that has closed that has been nominated, you can't just look at it specifically as a statistic of like, well, it's happened before. It's like, okay, well, let's look at the season. So, for example, when I said that I don't think woods will get many acting nominations, if at all, I. I still am pretty confident Sarah will get in for leading actress. We'll get to her in a second. But I still. I think she's actually more vulnerable than many people are willing to admit. And people go, well, Martin Short won for Little Me. I'm like, yes. There were four nominees in his category. He was one of three that were in closed shows, and the only one who was still running was Tom Wopat and Annie get. Yout Gun. And it's not called Frank Butler get yout Gun, it's called Annie get yout Gun.
- [69:35]
Adam Ellsbury
And. Right. And Martin Short had made a great impression in that role.
- [69:39]
Matt Koplik
That role in Little Me is such a showcase and he was considered so great in it that it just wasn't not going to happen. Like, the only other option was Brent Carver, who was also in a closed show. Carolee probably would have won for Parade if Parade were still running at the time. But she lost to Bernadette in the currently running Annie get your Gun where everyone went. She's not as bad as I thought she was going to be. So. Okay, of the five directors that I said, we said Kale, Stone, Arden, Stro, Nicola, who? If you. If you had. And share. Yes. If you had to kick one out, who would it be?
- [70:23]
Adam Ellsbury
Which queen deserves to go home and why?
- [70:28]
Matt Koplik
Where's six?
- [70:31]
Adam Ellsbury
I might have to say Thomas Kale.
- [70:34]
Matt Koplik
Interesting. That's who I would personally take out. That's. I don't know if I believe that's. Who will get taken.
- [70:40]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean, I thought that was. I thought. You're asking my personal opinion.
- [70:43]
Matt Koplik
I don't know. Oh, personal is easy. I can absolutely give you who my personal five are.
- [70:48]
Adam Ellsbury
Ok. I don't. You know, I don't know. I. Especially because I haven't seen everything. It's. It's a hard one for me to really have a full opinion on, but based on what I have seen, I think I'm. Is this. Is this in order to get Cher.
- [71:05]
Matt Koplik
In or considering gets kicked out? Or is it.
- [71:11]
Adam Ellsbury
Maybe it. Yeah, it might be.
- [71:14]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I think this could be a revival like Fiddler, where Cher is vulnerable again. The difference is that with Fiddler, the reviews were kind, but they weren't extraordinary. And a lot of people were like, we know that this show is extraordinary. The fact that I'm not like living my best life is your fault. Right? Camelot. If Camelot gets kind reviews, no one's gonna necessarily blame him for it not being over the moon. Incredible. They're like, well, it's Camelot. It's never been great.
- [71:44]
Adam Ellsbury
Right. I was gonna say nobody. I don't think I've ever had anybody list that as like their top favorite show of all time.
- [71:50]
Matt Koplik
Jfk. And he's dead, so. Well, that's why that he got killed.
- [71:55]
Adam Ellsbury
If he was still alive, do you think that would still be his favorite musical? Let's be real.
- [72:00]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I know he probably would like Laage next.
- [72:03]
Adam Ellsbury
Yes.
- [72:03]
Matt Koplik
All that. All that butt stuff. He's like, yes, please ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you could put up your country's butt. So director of a play. Once again, we go into most. This is. This is a category where it's very easy to line up those who did, like a lot of elaborate staging in a play. So Life of PI Christmas Carol, speaking of turntables, Leopoldstadt and then probably Death of a Salesman. Probably. I don't know, maybe I would give Fat Ham a nomination here. I think that they do a really good job with this, but yeah, I don't know. What. What's the word on the street? Who's talking about director of a play?
- [72:50]
Adam Ellsbury
Adam, Is any. I. I haven't heard anybody talking about director of a play.
- [72:56]
Matt Koplik
It's such a shame there because the thing is, there's actually been some pretty good direction. Some pretty good direction this year. Like, I thought that Kenny Leon's direction for Top Dog Underdog was really strong.
- [73:06]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, that's true. I could see him getting a nomination for that.
- [73:10]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Well, again, just because that show closed and there's so much fucking going on and like, even Peter Pan goes wrong. It's got so much happening on that stage that you can't deny the.
- [73:24]
Adam Ellsbury
It's a traffic control job.
- [73:26]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. But like a good one. One that doesn't fit traffic control. And I hear Chapkins doing some really funny work and complex work in Thanksgiving Play. So who knows?
- [73:36]
Adam Ellsbury
I think that's one that's going to be hard to tell until we get. Until everything is open.
- [73:40]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And unlike the musicals. Actually, no, that's not true because we have some plays this season that also would have been eligible in past seasons for like drama desks and Outer Critics Circle. So like between Riverside and Crazy and Cost of Living and Fathom, it's like, well, what do we nominate them for? Or rather we should say, like, where's. What's the momentum on these shows? Because they were off Broadway last season or previous seasons and. Right. It's harder to tell. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's interesting. It's interesting. I hope latanya doesn't get nominated for Piano Lesson. I really didn't like her direction on that show one bit. The tone, sorry to be a downer. I'm also fascinated to see if anything happens with Cost of Living, a full on Pulitzer winner that got like the biggest of rave reviews from the Times, once again, throwing out critics picks like Candy, which I liked, didn't love, but I don't know at the time I was like, oh, I'm sure, like, play, possibly direction, maybe an acting nomination or two. And now it's, like, not on anyone's top five for any category.
- [74:44]
Adam Ellsbury
I know. It's interesting, though, that I haven't seen it really brought up at all this season. But, yeah, when it First. When it. When it opened.
- [74:50]
Matt Koplik
Well.
- [74:50]
Adam Ellsbury
And obviously it won the Pulitzer before.
- [74:52]
Matt Koplik
And.
- [74:53]
Adam Ellsbury
And all of that, but, like. But yeah, it's surprising that it seems to have gone by the wayside.
- [74:57]
Matt Koplik
I wonder, has there ever been a play that has won the Pulitzer that didn't get nominated for Best Play if it was eligible? You know, I don't know if that's ever happened.
- [75:09]
Adam Ellsbury
Want to do a follow up on that one? I don't know. Yeah, not that I can think of. But my awareness of that type of stuff isn't quite as strong as my musical knowledge.
- [75:19]
Matt Koplik
Well, and that's why originally I thought that the five best plays and. We'll get to it. We'll get to it. Okay, so direction. We're done. Choreography, Stroh, obviously.
- [75:28]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [75:28]
Matt Koplik
Nicola, obviously, I would probably say. And Juliet, because those people dance on the turntable and they don't bump into each other. Sure, yeah. There was a question in the last episode about Cilento's eligibility for Danson, because even though it's technically Fosse's moves, he is, quote, unquote, reinventing it. I called.
- [75:50]
Adam Ellsbury
Wait, now, remind me, for Fosse, did anybody get nominated for choreography for that show? Was that an in ranking nomination?
- [75:57]
Matt Koplik
No.
- [75:58]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay.
- [75:58]
Matt Koplik
They were nominated for direction.
- [76:00]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay. Oh, right. It was Anne. And I can't think I remember who co director was, but. Yeah.
- [76:06]
Matt Koplik
And Richard. And Richard Malpe Jr. Richard Malpy Jr. That's right. And then Gwen Verdon was like, artistic consultant.
- [76:11]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, yeah, yeah. See what else? Choreograph, Blah, blah, blah.
- [76:18]
Matt Koplik
Well, so friend of the pod, Robbie Roselle, wanted to remind me that Anne won her choreography Tony for Chicago in the style of Fosse.
- [76:25]
Adam Ellsbury
Right.
- [76:25]
Matt Koplik
Which there are. There are at least two numbers in Chicago when it's done with a full cast of dancers that are purely Fosse's original moves. But I would argue that the majority of that show is Anne's work.
- [76:36]
Adam Ellsbury
It's her. Yeah.
- [76:37]
Matt Koplik
Even. Even if we're going off of no Hot honey rag being 99% Fosse, you know, everything else she does, even she might be following a similar structure, but the moves themselves are hers. Whereas Danson, we are. Even when Cilento's like, hey, let's Take this section and put it over here and have put. Put everyone at an angle. I'm like, yes, but they're at an angle. Still doing Fosse's moves, right?
- [76:57]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, you just. You just change the direction of it.
- [77:00]
Matt Koplik
Yes, you may.
- [77:01]
Adam Ellsbury
As I said, the physical direction of it, I should say.
- [77:03]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. As I said in last week's episode, you might be dancing to Plastic Chicken, but they are still doing the exact moves of mine. Hair. Even if they were eligible choreography, I could not in good conscience give them a nomination for that. When the highlight. Two highlights are Sing, Sing, Sing and Beat Me Daddy eight to the Bar when just doing the exact moves.
- [77:25]
Adam Ellsbury
I think that's valid.
- [77:27]
Matt Koplik
What kind of.
- [77:28]
Adam Ellsbury
What else? Got choreography.
- [77:30]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, maybe.
- [77:31]
Adam Ellsbury
Maybe they won't fill all five categories, although they probably will want to just because there's enough shows to make it happen.
- [77:37]
Matt Koplik
Well, and that's the thing. I wonder, like, could it be a situation where it ends up being four? Because if. Because I think that can happen, too, if it's sort of scattered enough with the bottom. With the fifth nominee where it's like, you know, 10 people do K pop, 10 people do.
- [77:56]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean, I could see. I could see a world in which Shucked gets nominated, even though it's. I don't think. I don't think it would have a chance of winning. But it has. It has a couple of, like, creatively fun numbers. There's that one barrel number. That's the. The staging of it is kind of fun.
- [78:09]
Matt Koplik
That's. But that's late in Act 2. I would argue if Shucked is allowed to be a hot contender for a nomination, then so should fucking Kimberly. I know people are going to mention Sweeney, and it's entirely possible there is movement in that show, but I do not think it's effective. Best case scenario, it just is fine. Like, in. God, that's good. It's done. Okay. Worst case scenario, it fully undercuts the tension of the show. I really hated how the movement was done in the ballad of them being, like.
- [78:41]
Adam Ellsbury
When they start, like, humping the air and doing that body roll.
- [78:44]
Matt Koplik
Yup, yup. The sweetie. I hated it. And then they do, like, a blob thing where people would, like, pop out of the blob to do their solo bits and.
- [78:55]
Adam Ellsbury
All. Right.
- [78:56]
Matt Koplik
I'm not opposed to movement in Sweeney. I think that it can work. I also. I was like, poor thing. A number where you absolutely could have movement here.
- [79:05]
Adam Ellsbury
And they did. Yeah, I thought that I. I totally forgot about that. Yes. Thank you for reminding me. Yeah, that number could have been much more exciting.
- [79:13]
Matt Koplik
I also. I'm gonna have to ask. Maybe I won't ask Delaney because I don't want. I don't want to come back here with an answer and everyone know that it's Delaney. I asked. I'll ask around to other people I know who are in that show. But it honestly, this whole production just felt to me sort of like we don't want to be triggering to anyone. So there's no whistle, there's not a lot of blood. And when the judge assaults Lucy at the party in pantomime, he's going to be four feet away from her while he does it, because I don't know if you remember the way that it ended. He, like. He's standing three feet from her and he sort of takes out his hand and starts pointing his finger down, like he's going to enter her cleavage. It's on that final, like. Poor thing.
- [79:50]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, I totally even missed that. I didn't even see it.
- [79:53]
Matt Koplik
It's what it looked like to me.
- [79:54]
Adam Ellsbury
Granted, which is a problem, because you should be fully paying attention to that moment.
- [79:58]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely. But I remember he was, like, pointing his finger down, getting closer towards her and closer towards her. And then when they got to that final, he, like, whisked her off and I was just like, no, come on, you gotta do something here.
- [80:12]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [80:13]
Matt Koplik
Alan Rickman fully fell on top of Laura Michelle Kelly. We only saw it for a second, but he did it.
- [80:18]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. In the original production, we got, like, the. The bear judge butt.
- [80:23]
Matt Koplik
Yep. And then in the concert with George Hern and Patty, they had Lucy slide down the middle of the gangplank towards the judge.
- [80:31]
Adam Ellsbury
That's right.
- [80:33]
Matt Koplik
That was cute. I don't know if there. I know people don't love the movie and I defend it to everyone, but I think there's one. There's one number in that movie that I'm like, I'm sorry. It doesn't need my defense. They just do it so well, and it's. Poor thing. They do poor thing so well.
- [80:46]
Adam Ellsbury
It's great. It looks great.
- [80:48]
Matt Koplik
The way that the Timothy Spall is. The beetle just looks on with, like, admiration.
- [80:53]
Adam Ellsbury
He is. And he is in, like, full wormtail mode, too.
- [80:57]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah. Fully erect. He's fully erect. His worm tail is erect. And yeah. Oh, God, I love it. But, yeah, I. They could get in for choreography. I hope not. I don't. And I love Hoggett. I think his work in Once. I too, an American Idiot, but just. This is not it. She's not the one here.
- [81:16]
Adam Ellsbury
And even his stuff in Cursed Child is really fun and cool. You better swing that goddamn cape around. Let's. Let's swish it.
- [81:25]
Matt Koplik
When they said that there were. There was wand dancing, it's not what I expected, but I'm. I'm glad I saw it.
- [81:31]
Adam Ellsbury
I just remember when I had a friend that saw it in the West End before it came here, and he was like, there's a lot of swooshing of capes. And I was. And I. And the funny thing was that when I finally saw it, it was exactly what I thought it was gon. But to the point where it made me giggle a little bit every time because I was like, ooh, there they go.
- [81:49]
Matt Koplik
Whoosh.
- [81:49]
Adam Ellsbury
They just swoosh it around. Because also there's that sound effect that goes along with it. That's very much a swoosh.
- [81:56]
Matt Koplik
It's a swoosh. So book and score is where it gets a little tricky because we have our three locks score. We have a lock in Kimberly, which also, by the way, everyone listen to the cast recording because that cast recording came out at the right moment for Tony.
- [82:11]
Adam Ellsbury
That sounds incredible.
- [82:13]
Matt Koplik
And. And it gives you even greater insight to how fucking great that score is. Yeah. Like it hot shocked. Those are three locks for score.
- [82:22]
Adam Ellsbury
And I think New York, New York, because it's going to be. Because it's John Candor, potentially final show.
- [82:29]
Matt Koplik
Is it eligible? Yeah.
- [82:31]
Adam Ellsbury
Is there's enough new material in it that it's eligible? Because.
- [82:35]
Matt Koplik
Sure.
- [82:36]
Adam Ellsbury
I'm pretty darn sure. Because they're doing what New York, New York, World goes round. Marry me, marry me. I think there's like maybe four or five trunks trunk songs, quote, unquote, reused songs. And I think the rest of it is original, but I could be wrong.
- [82:56]
Matt Koplik
So if you're correct, it's absolutely going to get a score nomination. Absolutely. Won't win, but will get nominated. Every time that Kander and E.B. get nominated in this century, they nominated on the grounds of vote for us. You'll never get the chance to vote for John Kander again. Each time he doesn't win, and then he gets.
- [83:17]
Adam Ellsbury
And he's like, oh, wait, there's this other show that John and I wrote or that Fred and I wrote that we never got out here. Let's do this one now.
- [83:23]
Matt Koplik
Here you go. Vote for me now.
- [83:26]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, it was like. It was like Steel Pier was the last show and then the Visit was Curtains was the last show, and then the Visit was the last show and Then Scottsboro.
- [83:35]
Matt Koplik
Scottsboro Boys, then, well, whatever order it was.
- [83:38]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. The number of times that I've been like, oh, it's the last time I'll get to see an original Canderade musical on stage. It's like, oh, wait, five years have passed, and here's another one. Here we are again.
- [83:48]
Matt Koplik
Yep. And every time when the Tonys come around, the producers are like, vote for it for score. You'll never get the chance again. And everyone's like, I have a feeling there are three other shows somewhere they're based.
- [83:56]
Adam Ellsbury
I have a feeling.
- [83:58]
Matt Koplik
I have a feeling John Kander's holding out on us. So if it's eligible. Absolutely. And then the fifth slot. So I also thought, if it's not eligible and they have to do two more slots, I think Life of PI will get in there as a play with music.
- [84:11]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, for a score nomination. Yeah.
- [84:13]
Matt Koplik
And it is beautiful music that is very heavily used in the show. And then the la. And then if it's not. If New York. New York is not eligible and we have Life of PI on there, then it's okay. K Pop, Almost Famous, Bad Cinderella. What should we do? And I.
- [84:29]
Adam Ellsbury
If I think or do they not. What if they just do four?
- [84:32]
Matt Koplik
What if they do just do four or. Well, that's the thing is. Because then there are plays that also have music that they can nominate.
- [84:39]
Adam Ellsbury
Sure.
- [84:40]
Matt Koplik
I. Because it's. It's really rare when it's okay, we have enough for five slots, but actually we only nominated four, but, like, that happens extremely rarely. I feel like if they're gonna do a fifth and they. And, like, have to fill it out, they would do K Pop for multiple reasons. But I don't know. What if they did do Bad Cindy? Ugh, God.
- [85:07]
Adam Ellsbury
I just. I don't see the theater community awarding that show with many nominations just out of sheer.
- [85:17]
Matt Koplik
Whatever. Disdain. There's a lot of disdain for that show.
- [85:21]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, it's.
- [85:22]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's. Which I get. And again, it's been the butt of.
- [85:26]
Adam Ellsbury
A joke since it came in, since before it came in. Like, when they announced that it was coming over. People are like, why?
- [85:32]
Matt Koplik
And why change it to that name? The thing is that I feel like a lot of the vitriol on that show, it's not that it's undeserved. It's just a little too intense. I'm like, can we release some of the poison here and sprinkle it onto some other shows that maybe don't deserve? Tens, tens, tens across the board.
- [85:47]
Adam Ellsbury
Yes. That I have to say, side note that when they revealed that title.
- [85:54]
Matt Koplik
With.
- [85:54]
Adam Ellsbury
Her doing the spray paint, and I really think that they thought they were being brilliant about it.
- [86:00]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah.
- [86:00]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean, it definitely got my attention, but it was just like, why are you picking this name for this show? It's just.
- [86:08]
Matt Koplik
Oy. Anyway, so the intel I have on Bad Cinderella is similar to the intel I have on Diana, which is that when it was being created, it was never, ever meant to be camp. It was meant to be earnest. Fun and entertaining, but earnest. And then when the show got its reception on the West End, Andy was like, oh, great, I did it. I did it so well. And then the post came, tore it to shreds, and they went, okay, we have one angle here, and it is camp. And the writing does not endorse that. That's just what marketing went for. And the cast of Bad Cinderella, they are all very aware what show they are in and what kind of show they are in. But everyone on the production team is convinced that they were creating something of merit. And so that is sort of why there's a lot of, I think, disdain for the show itself, because it's like, if you. If you came out as a rowdy bowdy bitch, as Alyssa Edwards says, we would have more respect for you. Same thing. Like, if Diana had come out the gate in 2020 before the pandemic being like, we're trying to do, like, a camptastic spectacular of Diana. You can call it import taste, but this is what we're going with. And then it wasn't until Netflix happened. And then, honestly, halfway into previews after Netflix, they were like, oh, let's pivot. Let's pivot. Say this is what we always wanted to do.
- [87:28]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. Because. Well, because even by the time that I saw it, which was maybe three weeks before it closed, I don't think it had officially opened yet. I don't now. I don't remember.
- [87:37]
Matt Koplik
They. They. They ran.
- [87:39]
Adam Ellsbury
When did they open? Do you remember the opening night?
- [87:42]
Matt Koplik
Their opening night, I think, was end of November. They. Okay. For legit four weeks total.
- [87:47]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay. That. I think I saw it right before it opened, because I think I saw it mid November. I want to say it was like the 12th or something. Anyway. But even. Because even at that point, that audience was so divided and confused.
- [88:02]
Matt Koplik
Yep.
- [88:03]
Adam Ellsbury
And having a good time, but not for the reasons that the creative team wanted you to have a good time. And it was like the beginning of the. The big switch over.
- [88:14]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. It's the same thing with Bad Cinderella. Like, everyone's going in saying, screw the critics. I'm gonna have wine and have an amazing time. And that is sort of how the show begins. And then tries to trick you into thinking that there's a deeper message, but they can't. So they go back to camp. It's. It's she Bad Cindy herself has got a number in act two called Far Too Late that goes on for. Let me check my watch here, 7342 minutes. It is one of the longest, most repetitive songs I've ever heard to the point where a bunch of us in the orchestra started chuckling every time a new verse happened because we're just saying the same thing over and over again. And the whole. And the irony is that the song is called Far Too late to sing a Love Song. And I went, oh great. I'm so glad that we are 3/4 of the way into Act 2 for you to say this via a 7 minute number. Stupid. Not Lineaty's fault. Just whatever. I. Yeah, I don't think, I hope it doesn't get a best score nomination. It could just on the merit of like, it's Andy Weber, you know, he brought us a show, guys, and we shouldn't be too harsh on it. But like, I think that there's also something to say about K pop where it would be nice to nominate the first Asian American woman for best score or if K pop sounds like K pop and they are releasing the cast recording in pieces leading up to nomination day so they can hear it separate from the show, which is the women on the verge narrative. And I think that is very smart.
- [89:47]
Adam Ellsbury
So I think, well then, then, then, then I hope the best for them.
- [89:51]
Matt Koplik
As do I. As opposed to Almost Famous where you go, I just want this to be Tiny Dancer. And then you listen to Tiny Dancer and you're like, yeah, why can't the rest of the score be this way? Yeah. Neither will be nominated for book, which leads us to book Kimberly Shooked, Some Like It Hot and Juliet and then either New York, New York or if Sorkin is considered eligible for camel toe. Possibly for camel toe. Yeah.
- [90:17]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean, I would say it'll probably be New York, New York, Unless. Unless Sorkin's eligible.
- [90:22]
Matt Koplik
I mean, if they can't get Newark, New York down to 2 hours and 30 minutes, I don't know.
- [90:27]
Adam Ellsbury
What's it running now? 2:45?
- [90:29]
Matt Koplik
I don't know.
- [90:29]
Adam Ellsbury
The first preview was like three hours, wasn't it?
- [90:32]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, the first preview was three hours. Supposedly they were able to shave off like five minutes in the first week. I don't know where it's at now. They might be doing the shuffle along situation where it's like the first week was just about kind of tightening what they had, and then second week was, okay, now let's do get the ax. Yeah. Oh, God. Every Broadway show needs George C. Wolfe to come in and be like, okay, you get cut, you get cut. You get cut. Sorry, babe. I love you. You're talented, but you're fired because you have no part anymore. We need him. We need him every day of every week. I am so glad that Broadway listened to me and gave me Joe Mantello with the Gray House. But I need Wolf now, too. Oh, right.
- [91:09]
Adam Ellsbury
Wait, you didn't mention that in the shows that are still yet to open.
- [91:12]
Matt Koplik
Well, because it doesn't.
- [91:13]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh. It's next season technically, isn't it?
- [91:14]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. It starts previews, I think, at the end of this month and then opens in May. Or maybe it previews in May and opens in June. I just remember, like, they announced that their preview started so soon after the cutoff date that everyone was like, why? Why not just do this season? But it's pretty packed, and, you know, I don't think they're aiming for Tony's. I think they're just aiming to make some money.
- [91:37]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, well, and maybe they'll be. Their show will be thrilling.
- [91:41]
Matt Koplik
Maybe.
- [91:42]
Adam Ellsbury
And scary.
- [91:43]
Matt Koplik
God damn, do we need it. Imagine if Laurie Metcalfe could sing. Imagine her. Love it.
- [91:48]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, my God.
- [91:49]
Matt Koplik
Oh, it would be incredible.
- [91:51]
Adam Ellsbury
It'd be incredible. It would also be unhinged.
- [91:56]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah.
- [91:57]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean, and I'm saying this in the best way possible, but, oh, man, would that be an unhinged Mrs. You.
- [92:02]
Matt Koplik
Know, it's going to be really hard for me to deal with for a while in my first world. Beautiful gay. Problem is when Once Upon a One More Time opens at the Marquee Theater with Jennifer Simard, and I'm going to be like, Sweeney Todd is right across the street. Jennifer Simard. Why aren't you there doing Lovett? Why aren't you? My Mrs. Lovett?
- [92:22]
Adam Ellsbury
She'd be amazing.
- [92:24]
Matt Koplik
When has she not been amazing?
- [92:26]
Adam Ellsbury
That's true.
- [92:27]
Matt Koplik
I don't mean to be like that person who's like, I love you no matter what you do. I'm sure she could do something that would make me unhappy, but so far, I've yet to be disappointed in Simard.
- [92:37]
Adam Ellsbury
Cinnamon.
- [92:39]
Matt Koplik
The odd taste in the coffee is Sienna, man.
- [92:41]
Adam Ellsbury
Bobby Manicotti.
- [92:48]
Matt Koplik
Okay, so speaking of her, too, watching Shucked. I Wish I had, like, a bit of deja vu at the Nederlander Theater with everyone talking about Alex Newell and their number. And I'm like, okay, Alex absolutely sings the house down. And I'm sitting here going, let's not pretend this is Jennifer Simard making an absolute meal out of.
- [93:04]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, right.
- [93:05]
Matt Koplik
The jukebox number in disaster.
- [93:07]
Adam Ellsbury
Right.
- [93:08]
Matt Koplik
Just doing, first of all, also singing her goddamn tits off in a number that truly builds. That, you know, excites you in the end.
- [93:16]
Adam Ellsbury
It was incredible.
- [93:17]
Matt Koplik
Doing absolutely everything humanly possible you could do with a jukebox machine. It was not jukebox slot machine.
- [93:25]
Adam Ellsbury
Sorry.
- [93:26]
Matt Koplik
It was. God, like that. I just sat there being like, I'll remember that forever. And an audience losing it because they were so surprised. And Newell, I was like, newell's doing great. But this is not like the same kind of surprise for me. Anyhow. Okay, let's get into some acting. Pick a category. Any category.
- [93:48]
Adam Ellsbury
Let's. Let's do what they always do. Best supporting actress of a musical.
- [93:55]
Matt Koplik
You mean featured actress in a musical.
- [93:57]
Adam Ellsbury
I'm sorry. Best featured actress in a musical. That's right.
- [93:59]
Matt Koplik
Let's call it like we see it. Well, let's start with our first lock, shall we?
- [94:04]
Adam Ellsbury
Bonnie Milligan.
- [94:05]
Matt Koplik
Yes. 1,000%.
- [94:11]
Adam Ellsbury
Duh.
- [94:11]
Matt Koplik
Duh. Then if we have Alex, we have Alex. After having seen Kim again for, you know, time, I gotta say, I think Ally Mozzie could get in there.
- [94:25]
Adam Ellsbury
Ally Mozzie could also be in there. It could. It could be a twofer with both of them.
- [94:28]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And she's not such competition for Bonnie that they would split votes. I just think that it. There's a way to, you know, I think she's giving a performance that should absolutely be acknowledged, and it's a really difficult role that she pulls off.
- [94:40]
Adam Ellsbury
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, agreed. I mean, for like, a sort of showier role. There's Natasha, Yvette Williams from Some Like It Hot. Some Like It Hot. And she really is quite good in that show. She's really enjoyable.
- [94:54]
Matt Koplik
She's someone who, on paper, I keep saying, like, is a possibility. But then when I really think about it realistically, I don't see it. But it could. I mean, it could happen. Her show is still running. This is. This is another situation, Adam, where people are like, well, what about Pippa and Into the Woods? What about Julia Lester? And I'm like, yes, what about them? There are so many options, and all the women who are also options are still on Broadway.
- [95:17]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [95:17]
Matt Koplik
It's really difficult if I'm Going to nominate anyone in featured actress from into the woods, it's Julia Lester. But.
- [95:23]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, yeah, she was great.
- [95:25]
Matt Koplik
She was. I just don't see. Again, I just don't see it happening. I would nominate Melanie Le Bear, I think is her name from. And Juliet. Melanie Laveri, the nurse.
- [95:36]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, the one who won the Olivier as the, the nurse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's great.
- [95:40]
Matt Koplik
Did she win or did the actress who played Anne Hathaway win on the West End?
- [95:45]
Adam Ellsbury
I think she won.
- [95:46]
Matt Koplik
Although I could be wrong, Melanie.
- [95:48]
Adam Ellsbury
Maybe she was nominated and not. And didn't win.
- [95:51]
Matt Koplik
Well, and so you and I have very similar opinions on this musical, Adam.
- [95:55]
Adam Ellsbury
Yes, yes.
- [95:56]
Matt Koplik
And we, and I need the listeners to understand just how gay we are when we talk about how much we both kind of signed Juliet and went.
- [96:03]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay, yeah, I, I, it was, I honestly, I kind of. It was one of those shows. It's very rare that I feel bad that I don't like something very much, but it was one where I was like, I really should like this show. There's, there's so many elements of that show that I really, on paper, was excited about where I was like, oh, fun. Like, it's a very, it's a very diverse cast across the board. Not even, like, racially, like, body type, every, like, gender, everything there. It's, it's a really inclusive cat. Probably the most inclusive cast I've seen on a Broadway stage in a minute. And that's. The design is fun and bright, and it's all like late 90s, early 2000 bops. And so, like, you know, it's totally my era of, of pop music in terms of, at least, I don't know, like, it just reminds me of, like, the end of high school.
- [96:59]
Matt Koplik
Half of the music in and Juliet was the music that was playing when you lost your virginity at prom, you know.
- [97:04]
Adam Ellsbury
Right.
- [97:06]
Matt Koplik
Early Britney, late.
- [97:07]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, but, but you've, you've made your point about it, and I don't. And I kind of agree. It's where it's like, you know, this, the show is about this character, and she's the least interesting part of the show.
- [97:21]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely.
- [97:24]
Adam Ellsbury
And, and I just, and I, and it's a, it's another one of those ones where I feel like there's a lot being shoehorned in that's unnecessary.
- [97:32]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [97:33]
Adam Ellsbury
There's nothing just, just for visibility's sake, where it's like, just by a lot of these. And I mean no disrespect to any of these actors. I'm thrilled to see this diversity on stage. But it. There's a lot of stuff that feels shoehorned in just in the name of visibility.
- [97:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, well, it's performative in the way that, honestly, a lot of Broadway is, you know, and the community is. And I've talked about this a bit in the past, and I wish that we'd have a bit more of a reckoning about it or just, like, being honest and getting a little dirtier about it, the best way I can describe it. And again, it's a play I don't like. I don't think it's a good play, but I like how it ends, which is Slave Play, where China and Paul Alexander Nolan. You know, the whole bit is their marriage is sort of based on this toxic truth of the history of slavery in America. And she kind of. She keeps saying how she wants them to kind of go to the absolute darkest, ugliest place and to eventually come out of it, which. The final scene is that they. They go to the ugliest place and it's awful and it's traumatizing. And the last line of the play is her saying, thank you, baby, for listening, because it's. And I viewed it, and I have other friends who viewed it this way, but I had a debate with someone about this the other day. They're like, well, their marriage. Someone's like, oh, well, their marriage is. Because you can't come back from that. Like, no, no, no. That was them burning the foundations of their marriage to the ground to build a better, stronger house, a new. On less toxic ground. That is what that was, at least in my opinion. And I feel like Broadway needs to kind of do that in general when it comes to equity and inclusion. But we digress. And Juliet, I don't think is bad on an objective level. It's fine. It does what it says out to do decently well there. But I do have other notes which we've already discussed in terms of featured actress. So Melanie did not win the Olivier. It was the actress. It was the actress who played Anne Hathaway.
- [99:31]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay, I would then. I. But I would nominate Melanie.
- [99:35]
Matt Koplik
Yes. I would not. I would nominate Melanie. I. Yeah, he was the performance in that show I enjoyed the most. The two performances I enjoyed the most were Melanie and the actor who played Francois, Frankie. I thought that they were the best at having one foot in cheek and one foot in earnest earnestness. And.
- [99:54]
Adam Ellsbury
Wait, is Frankie Paulo Jat's son? Yes. Okay.
- [99:57]
Matt Koplik
The one who falls for me. Yeah, yeah, the virgin. And Paulo was fine. I listen I love me, Daddy Paulo. And I would say my third favorite performance after Melanie and Frankie was Stark Sands, who, again, very rare when you're going to hear me say star can do wrong. But I just don't think that that role is quite up for a nomination because he's sort of like the stand in douche that we all are supposed to kind of roll our eyes at. And he does it very well. But whatever. I. Okay, this is where we have to get objective here, Adam. I think Betsy will get nominated as Anne Hathaway. I think Betsy will full get nominated. It is not a performance that I would personally nominate. It is not a performance that. That engaged me. And I'm going to say this as politely as possible. It is a performance that I found a little bit on the selfish side because as someone who has written and directed and acted in the past, and granted, I'm not doing all these things in this very moment. I am doing one, but not all three. But I also, you know, having been in it, having done other elements of it, having, you know, seen as much as I have, and conversing with actor, director friends. There is a certain kind of acting performance in a comedy where you watch somebody undermine the laughs someone else might get so you can get the laugh and he ends up hurting the scene. And it's something that I watched Betsy do quite a few times in. And Juliet with her sort of dry, sarcastic, you know, what's the word for vocal fry tone? Me. It's me. I'm the best friend. She's talking about, like, that kind of stuff. And Anne Hathaway has enough one liners. She doesn't need more. But there were times in that show I would watch Betsy react to somebody. Somebody would come at Betsy and be like. Like, can you believe the craziness that's happening in Paris? She's like, oh, my God. Yeah, I can't believe it. And it's. The joke is not supposed to be her joke, but she would kind of go for it. And then the next line, which is supposed to be a joke for somebody else, wouldn't get the laugh. And it made me a little angry because I didn't find it a very giving moment as a scene partner. That is me being honest. And I'm trying to say it politely. Was I polite?
- [102:15]
Adam Ellsbury
Yes.
- [102:16]
Matt Koplik
Okay, great.
- [102:17]
Adam Ellsbury
I thought it was very diplomatic of you.
- [102:19]
Matt Koplik
Thank you. Because also, like, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Betsy is extremely talented and very gifted at comedy. I saw her in the last five years where she Found laughs that no one else found before. Yeah, but it's the Laura Benanti syndrome for me of like. You are so good at finding laughs. You sometimes have to give a few up for the sake of the scene.
- [102:40]
Adam Ellsbury
Right. Not. Not everything needs to have a laugh.
- [102:43]
Matt Koplik
You don't have to be the one getting the laugh. Yeah, every time. Sometimes there are. There are 10 other people on stage, including someone who is the title role. Maybe. Maybe let them have a turn.
- [102:56]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, yeah.
- [102:57]
Matt Koplik
But because of this, she will get nominated because it is the kind of performance that a lot of people gravitate towards. And she does sing a very lovely. That's the way it is.
- [103:06]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, it's nice.
- [103:08]
Matt Koplik
Betsy Wolf, good at singing.
- [103:10]
Adam Ellsbury
She's got an okay voice. Maybe it'll work out for her. I don't know. So wait, so we're saying. So we're saying Bonnie and Allie, probably Betsy. Poly Fancy. Hopefully Nursey.
- [103:27]
Matt Koplik
Hopefully Nursey. And then the true coin toss is what happens with Alex. Where does Alex go?
- [103:35]
Adam Ellsbury
Right.
- [103:36]
Matt Koplik
And if Alex decides to be eligible.
- [103:37]
Adam Ellsbury
Have we heard anything about Emily Skinner's performance?
- [103:41]
Matt Koplik
I hear that she doesn't really have enough for a nomination.
- [103:43]
Adam Ellsbury
That's too bad. Oh, Natasha Williams. Natasha. Yvette Williams, though, could also be.
- [103:48]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely. I think. I think if I'm being super hardcore realistic, we are looking at Bonnie, Ali, Betsy, Natasha, and. Who was I gonna say? Alex. Alex Newell. But again, up in the air, figuring out if Alex decides to be eligible and where Alex decides to go. But if Alex decides featured actress, I think those are our five, with the possible exception of Ali or Natasha getting swapped out for Melanie Nursey in. And Juliet.
- [104:26]
Adam Ellsbury
Sure, sure.
- [104:28]
Matt Koplik
Because. Yeah, I think I. Because before. And that last week I had Ruthie in there because I had heard so much about Ruthie and having now seen it, I. She could. Anything's possible. I just did not find.
- [104:44]
Adam Ellsbury
I thought. I thought she was good, but I wouldn't necessarily nominate it.
- [104:50]
Matt Koplik
No, it doesn't.
- [104:51]
Adam Ellsbury
It doesn't feel like enough stage time.
- [104:53]
Matt Koplik
And that's the thing is like, I have seen beggar women who have really made the most of it. And this is the thing. Ruthie and Gaten really, too, in his final scene. It doesn't seem like they're going for a bold interpretation with their parts. They're trying to be respectful of mental illness, which I understand and I'm not against, but it makes the Becker woman less of a memorable figure.
- [105:20]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. Well, I think the thing that maybe we can both agree on, but that I would say with talking about Sweeney, again is that a lot of the melodrama is gone.
- [105:29]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Which is so somber.
- [105:33]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. Like the heightened level of everything. It just isn't.
- [105:37]
Matt Koplik
Sorry. Lived in.
- [105:38]
Adam Ellsbury
It's very.
- [105:39]
Matt Koplik
It all feels very lived in. The only two people, for me, who were really kind of playing the maximum impact of the material were the Beatle and then Nick Christopher.
- [105:48]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, he was great.
- [105:50]
Matt Koplik
He was great. If I had one note for him. And it was also. My note for Jordan Fisher is there's a bit of a modern sensibility of how they sing the material. I didn't mind it with Nick because a Nick sounded so good and the performance itself was so hilarious. Yeah, it's hilarious and complete. Yeah. But I mean, again, like, people I know. I know people who were nitpicking the Last Fiddler revival because they found that we're talking, like, opera queens who were, like, nitpicking the Three Daughters because, oh, they. Their vowel. Their vowel placements were off. But then go see Sweeney and called it perfect. And I'm like, I'm sorry. It musically, objectively is not perfect because there's an inconsistency in the style of singing with a lot of the actors. And then the night I saw it, Jordan Fisher had, like, three major bum notes in Joanna. I'm just. I'm just saying we're talking about sort of the post pandemic pandemic of everyone kind of getting swept up and stuff. And I'm talking about older gents of the Bachelor of Persuasion who tried to convince me in years gone by that certain performances weren't good because, oh, the vowels and the phrasing and the such and such, and then come in and are. No going off on this Sweeney as perfection. And I'm like, no. There are. There are audible issues here, and I wouldn't care about them so much if I found the whole package super thrilling. But because they don't find the whole package super thrilling, I'm gonna start complaining about the details. To quote the man who's dead, God is in the details.
- [107:17]
Adam Ellsbury
Correct.
- [107:18]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [107:19]
Adam Ellsbury
RIP Featured actor in a musical.
- [107:22]
Matt Koplik
Musical. Justin Cooley. Done.
- [107:25]
Adam Ellsbury
Justin Cooley. I would potentially say Stephen Boyer also.
- [107:29]
Matt Koplik
I think Stephen's great. I would absolutely nominate him. I'm a little nervous that nominators might feel a little too. Kimberly. Happy. And we'll look for places to cut corners. And he is the first.
- [107:40]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay. But I will. Kevin Day. Kevin Deliguille for Some Like It Hot. Some Like It Hot.
- [107:47]
Matt Koplik
Maybe.
- [107:48]
Adam Ellsbury
Maybe Kevin Gahoon for Shocked.
- [107:51]
Matt Koplik
You think maybe I. You know, What? Because I originally had Gaten down as a deaf, and now I'm a little more on the fence about Gaten with Sweeney. I would put Kevin in there as a very likely contender. He definitely has the most one liners in the show.
- [108:09]
Adam Ellsbury
He's the most one liners and he feels the most authentic.
- [108:15]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. It's also like, Kevin's been around for a while. Yeah.
- [108:20]
Adam Ellsbury
I've seen him in so many things. He was the very first Hedwig I ever saw.
- [108:23]
Matt Koplik
I'm sure he was amazing.
- [108:25]
Adam Ellsbury
Incredible.
- [108:26]
Matt Koplik
And, like, he's been around for a while, has always done great work, and it's just sort of, you know, he's got a good part in a musical that people are seeing.
- [108:34]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [108:35]
Matt Koplik
And. And like, he's doing good work.
- [108:37]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [108:38]
Matt Koplik
You know, they do that weird thing where he starts getting very homoerotic with. With John Bellman, which, you know. Yeah.
- [108:45]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean, who. Who could resist?
- [108:47]
Matt Koplik
Well, no, it's. It's not weird because of the homoeroticism for John. Believe me, anytime I go see John in anything, I'm like, yeah, no, we're. We come to this place to thirst and. But it's more that it just sort of comes so late in the show and never gets addressed again. And I'm like, I would have loved a moment.
- [109:04]
Adam Ellsbury
Well, he does have that crystal ball.
- [109:06]
Matt Koplik
Joke, but that's not gay. The joke is, if I had a crystal ball, I'd walk funny. But I'm.
- [109:15]
Adam Ellsbury
I think it was, if I had a crystal ball, I might be walked. I might walk different today.
- [109:20]
Matt Koplik
No, it thinks if. If I had a crystal ball, I'd be walking funny. Something like that. There's the actor who plays Jim Conley in Parade, which I know he's getting a lot of buzz for a possible nomination.
- [109:30]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [109:31]
Matt Koplik
I. I wasn't totally sold on nominating him in Act 1. I. Who's the actor who played Connolly originally in Parade?
- [109:40]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, I wish I could remember his name. I can hear his. His voice is crystal clear in my head, but I don't remember his name.
- [109:46]
Matt Koplik
What. Who is it? It is Alex Joseph Grayson. Sorry. No, that's. Who's playing Colby. That's current motherfucker. I'm a disaster. The. The original Jim Conley. Rufus Bonds Jr. All right.
- [110:02]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [110:03]
Matt Koplik
His performance on the cast recording is so good because. And I. I could very much be reading into it, but I felt like the way he does certain line readings, and that's what he said. You got the sense that, you know, this Conley had the potential to be Violent and scary. And also was sort of channeling a lot of his inner rage of the world he's in. In his testimony, because it's always on things like these stupid rednecks never gonna know and, like, just throw her on the ground. And the Conley here, Grayson, he was a little more calm in his testimony. It was a little more like, I've been coached, so he's like a motherfucker. But the performance itself wasn't quite as alive as I wanted to be until act two during the chain gang number, where I was like, oh, now we came to play. And so I was. I. With that. I was like, yeah, he could absolutely get nominated. He's tearing the floors up with this song.
- [110:53]
Adam Ellsbury
All right, well, that's exciting.
- [110:55]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And if I had my druthers, Paul Alexander Nolan would get in there, too. But we've yet to nominate him for a Tony for literally anything, which is crazy. It is crazy. He is the most healthily sung Jesus in Jesus Christ Superstar of all time. He built. What is it? It's like. I think it's a B flat. And everything's all right. The Sorry when I'm gone. And his face is just so relaxed.
- [111:21]
Adam Ellsbury
Well, let's not forget Gethsemane when he's screaming his face off.
- [111:26]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And looking so relaxed.
- [111:28]
Adam Ellsbury
Just so calm.
- [111:29]
Matt Koplik
Well, okay.
- [111:30]
Adam Ellsbury
But that was. Oh, well. I guess we're still technically in either side of this. This category because Alex could be nominated for best supporting actor, also best featured Actor. Excuse me, but that is a voice. I think one of the things that's so impressive about that voice, to me is how relaxed and effortless it looks.
- [111:49]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely.
- [111:50]
Adam Ellsbury
Where you're like, oh, that sound is just flowing out of you, and you're not, like, gripping to the floor, where. You know what I mean? We're not like Jennifer Holiday, like, straddling that track in the floor moment. It's just like, here, let me just toss these notes out. Oh, it's nothing. Oh, here. Here's this one, too. It's. It's. That, to me, is one of the things that's so impressive about that song is. And. And her delivery of that song. Their delivery of that song is just the. The finesse and ease with which those notes come out of her body.
- [112:26]
Matt Koplik
They are on, I believe, the top. Top line of the opening song in chat. Yes. And I remember hearing their voice on it just going, oh, my God, are they gonna have it in them for their big number? It's Pop it Out.
- [112:40]
Adam Ellsbury
They had a note near the top of Act 2 in a group number where they had one line and like picked some high note to riff off of. And I was like, what's that? You didn't even have to do that. And it was. And it was just like, oh, yeah. And here's this too. It was massively impressive and I think that. But the reason why it was so impressive is because it never feels forced. It just feels like breath.
- [113:10]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, no, it's. It's impressive without seeming like a struggle, seeming like an effort. And what I will also say is because it's impressive due to the ease, it doesn't feel like necessarily a trick. It feels so organic. Right. It's something that I have a lot of issues with in singing on Broadway these days. Is, you know, the. Again, is it higher? Are they singing higher? Is it a good song? And I think there's sort of a little bit of that in Alex's song and shucked. But I don't think that Alex themself is, you know, popping off a party trick. It's just very organically from them. Which is why I don't get.
- [113:49]
Adam Ellsbury
Right.
- [113:50]
Matt Koplik
Get angry watching it. I've gotten angry watching other people do that because.
- [113:53]
Adam Ellsbury
Well, because you're not watching the effort.
- [113:55]
Matt Koplik
Yes. And again, Alex is giving a good performance the rest of the time as well. You know, delivers a lot of their one liners. Great. Has this really wonderful like sort of babyish smile. So anytime they do sort of like an anti. A stinker moment, they flash them pearly whites.
- [114:09]
Adam Ellsbury
And also delivers some really nice tender moments. Like does a really nice job.
- [114:14]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And also on top of all of this, I mean, granted happens off stage during the epilogue, but we assume rides John Bellman so hard that they make a baby. You know, they.
- [114:25]
Adam Ellsbury
They have chemistry. They do.
- [114:27]
Matt Koplik
It's good.
- [114:28]
Adam Ellsbury
I have to say.
- [114:29]
Matt Koplik
It's good chemistry.
- [114:30]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [114:31]
Matt Koplik
First, I can't. How can you not have chemistry with John? That is a tall drink of me. Am I right?
- [114:38]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. Yeah. I think it would be pretty difficult to. I. I can't talk about this anymore. This is, this is, this is going to go down a path real quick.
- [114:48]
Matt Koplik
We did not do this episode to thirst, but John is another person where I'm like, we need to get you into a proper role for a Tony nomination. Should have been nominated for Tootsie, if we're being honest.
- [114:57]
Adam Ellsbury
Should have been. I. I actually remembered during his first song in Tampa how funny he was in that number in Tootsie.
- [115:11]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [115:11]
Adam Ellsbury
I was like, I wish this was as funny as that number. Was in Tootsie because that number was like out of control.
- [115:18]
Matt Koplik
People on the Tootsie score a lot. And I have to say, I understand, like the music was not Yazbek's best, but those were some funny lyrics. Those lyrics were great.
- [115:28]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, there, there, there's some. That whole show was so funny and I didn't care about it at all, but it was hilarious.
- [115:36]
Matt Koplik
I, I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. But we digress. Yeah.
- [115:41]
Adam Ellsbury
Moving on, Moving on.
- [115:42]
Matt Koplik
Let's. Let's get featured in plays. Leading actress in the play. It's Chastain. It's Lenny, it's McDonald. It's Comer. Done. Here we are. Yeah. Leading actor in the play is going to be interesting because we have Stephen McKinley Henderson for between Riverside and Crazy Jefferson Mace for Christmas Carol. Sean hates for Goodnight Oscar. I think his name is Marcel Speaks for Fathom. We have Corey Hawkins and his co star for Top Dog Underdog.
- [116:17]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, right. Yeah, yeah. Mateen. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [116:20]
Matt Koplik
Marcel Spears for. For Fat Ham.
- [116:23]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, I could see, I could see both of the Top Dog actors making their way up.
- [116:28]
Matt Koplik
Yep. And then also Nathan Lane and Danny Burstein, depending on who's eligible for Pictures from home. And then, I mean, I wonder if he's going to be eligible for Peter Pan goes Wrong. Neil Patrick Harris.
- [116:42]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, my God. Oh, yeah, that's, that's, that's some fresh news, folks. Just announced today.
- [116:47]
Matt Koplik
Just announced today, Funny magic man Neil Patrick Harris is going to be playing a part in Peter Pan Goes Wrong for three and a half weeks and it just so happens to be one of the performances. Is opening night.
- [117:00]
Adam Ellsbury
Good for her.
- [117:01]
Matt Koplik
Good for her. She can be eligible again. But, but she closes her run right before, like right before the nominations come out. So here we are.
- [117:10]
Adam Ellsbury
We shall see.
- [117:13]
Matt Koplik
I can't wait to see how this turns out. I think we have. Oh, and also Wendell Pierce for Death of a Salesman. It's, it's a lot. I think Sean and Marcel will be nominated. They are the leads in shows that are currently running and Fat Ham is a strong contender for Play and Goodnight. Oscar by all accounts is coming in because of Sean. Right. The lead actor in Life of PI could get nominated. He is quite good. I personally would not nominate him. But again, most likely in a play nominee it's running. And if that's the case, then we have a minimum of two more. Could be Wendell Pierce or Death of a Salesman. Could be Stephen McKinley Henderson. Could be Jefferson Mays or one of the Top Dog Underdog guys. I personally, if you had to, like, put a gun to my head like Mac, you can only do two more. Who's it gonna be? I would say Corey Hawkins for Top Dog under Duke. And I would say Jefferson Maze for Christmas Carol. That would be. That would be my five. And I ain't mad at her, so don't ask.
- [118:11]
Adam Ellsbury
I'm taking your word because you saw all of those things and I didn't. So.
- [118:16]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Okay. Lead actress of a musical. I feel like this is going to be pretty easy.
- [118:22]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean, I think it's kind of set up for itself. Vicki.
- [118:25]
Matt Koplik
Yes.
- [118:26]
Adam Ellsbury
Surefire nominee and probable winner.
- [118:29]
Matt Koplik
Yes. We don't like to say for sure because it's still so early, but I said probable not. I'm sitting here feeling comfy. Comfy and cozy. But I don't. We can't say it too loudly because then we'll jinx the.
- [118:43]
Adam Ellsbury
Fine. Okay, so Vicki.
- [118:45]
Matt Koplik
Yes.
- [118:45]
Adam Ellsbury
Annalee will get a nomination.
- [118:49]
Matt Koplik
Michaela.
- [118:50]
Adam Ellsbury
Michaela. Maybe the lead in New York. New York.
- [118:57]
Matt Koplik
Anna. Yeah. So that's the one who's probably the biggest question mark, because I've heard very strong things, actually strong things about both of them. But she apparently has, like, four really big numbers, and that could do it. And if that's the case, I think she would be kicking out Sarah and Into the Woods.
- [119:19]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, sure.
- [119:19]
Matt Koplik
Because the one thing I hear about Camelot is that the three leads all. Absolutely. That is the one thing. I mean, even on the fence about the show, like, oh, no, the three leads kill. Oh, Jordan Donica in Camelot. We haven't thought of him for featured.
- [119:34]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, right. Yeah, that's true. Put him in there, too.
- [119:36]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. So, yeah, last week I think I had Sarah in there over Anna, but I think. Think I'm gonna say Anna now. Lorna Courtney and Juliet is around. I just don't see it. But, you know, stranger things have happened.
- [119:53]
Adam Ellsbury
I think that. Yeah, I think that that show is more about that show than. Than her in that role.
- [120:01]
Matt Koplik
I don't see Lynad in Bad Cinderella getting in there. I don't see Adriana in Some like it Hot getting in there now. Yeah. And then Caroline. You know, I think Caroline would have a shot if nominators just really, really, really loved Shucked, but I don't think that she's the number one option. They have to nominate a performer. I think Alex is number one, Kevin is number two, and Caroline is number three.
- [120:26]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, I would agree.
- [120:27]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Okay. Moving on. After a musical, Ms. Platt.
- [120:34]
Adam Ellsbury
Ms. Platt.
- [120:35]
Matt Koplik
Ms. Platt. Ms. Groban.
- [120:36]
Adam Ellsbury
Mr. Borrell, you think I Think.
- [120:40]
Matt Koplik
Okay, well, then that changes things. Because I would say last week, I believe what I had was Boral, Jay, Harrison, Platt, Robin and Burnout. But I know there are a lot of people who are intrigued. The idea of Brian in Into the Woods. I don't see it happening. But again, who knows? The kicker is people are talking about Colton Ryan in New York, New York as much as Anna.
- [121:15]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, that's true. And now if NPH had transferred with into the Woods, I could see him having gotten a nomination for that performance. Speaking of nph. Yes.
- [121:29]
Matt Koplik
Well, I thought he was quite good in Woods. In fact, I thought he was better than Brian. And I don't like NPH all that much. I like Brian more on principle, pretty much.
- [121:39]
Adam Ellsbury
He was one of the cast members that I missed most in the transfer.
- [121:43]
Matt Koplik
I thought that he.
- [121:45]
Adam Ellsbury
I think Sarah was great on her own. I think that he. His presence led to a comfortability on her part that was so, so lovely. And the two of them worked together so well in that Encores version that.
- [122:01]
Matt Koplik
I mean, both productions I thought was missing a lot of hyper energy. You know, both Brian and Neil as well as Sarah. And honestly, Heather Patina seemed to be the only one of that group that understood there are three midnights, three minutes. Time was of the essence. Everyone else was like, yeah, so let's go get brunch. Yeah.
- [122:27]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, yeah. Oh, we got another item. Oh, cool. Wanna, like, sit and smoke this joint for a second? Great.
- [122:32]
Matt Koplik
I got it from a man in the tower. Whoa. That actually made me laugh. But still, it never felt like the stakes were high for any of them. But, yeah, Cole and I hear really great things about. In New York, New York. And a lot of people who have seen him have said, don't count him out. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to not count him out. And I think if you honestly bump out anybody, it would probably be Christian for me. I.
- [123:01]
Adam Ellsbury
Sure.
- [123:03]
Matt Koplik
Unless nominators are just so over Lincoln center and their big musical revivals and like, fuck Andrew Burnap. And I'm like, oh, just tell me where.
- [123:12]
Adam Ellsbury
Right. Is there a list?
- [123:17]
Matt Koplik
I'm sorry. Will you pay for the room or the bush? So, okay, your. Your final five. Give me, give me, give me. All of them. Of what?
- [123:29]
Adam Ellsbury
Of actor.
- [123:30]
Matt Koplik
Actor, baby, I think I'm with you. I.
- [123:32]
Adam Ellsbury
Well, let's see. I think so much of this is going to hinge on me seeing New York, New York, because I. I haven't seen Parade yet, but I've listened to the recording And I am seeing it at the end of this month, and I, I, and I feel like Ben is a shoe in.
- [123:56]
Matt Koplik
Oh, he's absolutely a shoe in for a nomination. Yeah. Yeah. At the moment of who I've seen, he's probably who I would vote for.
- [124:02]
Adam Ellsbury
Front runner.
- [124:04]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [124:04]
Adam Ellsbury
And that was.
- [124:05]
Matt Koplik
And I liked Jay a lot in Some Like It Hot. I just did not love something Like It Hot.
- [124:10]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. But, yeah, so I would say, I would say Ben Jay Groban.
- [124:19]
Matt Koplik
You said Boral. Oh, Boral.
- [124:22]
Adam Ellsbury
And, And Burnup. Yeah, I, I, I think I, I think you're right. I think that the Boral spot might vacillate. Oscillate, depending on how well New York, New York goes over.
- [124:32]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And I mean, again, based on how critics have been going these days, it could go over quite nicely.
- [124:38]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [124:40]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. All right, bring us to best music musical and play. Play, I actually think is a little more interesting than musical, but like, musical, I think I can knock this out. Kimberly sound like a hot shuck. And Juliet, New York, New York. They're done. Here we are. Oh, and revivals. But revivals, it's, you know, into the Woods Parade, Sweeney and Camelot. That's. Yeah, easy peasy. Revival play, Death of a Salesman, Top Dog, Underdog, and then Piano Lesson, I guess. Or there's Piano Lesson, Ohio State Murders, and I feel like there's another one that we're missing. Am I making this up? No. Maybe I'm making this up. What was. Hold, please. Oh, and while I do that, let's take one last break. You're an arrow collar. You're the top.
- [125:43]
Adam Ellsbury
You're a Coolidge dollar.
- [125:45]
Matt Koplik
You're the nimble thread. And we're back. Okay, so it's Piano Lesson, Death of a Salesman, Top Dog, Underdog, Ohio State Murders. No, I don't want you. I want the 2022-2023 season. Sorry, I'm on. I am an IBDB everybody, because I do the work for us all. Oh, Doll's House.
- [126:10]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, my. Of course.
- [126:11]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, but of course. So I think we're looking at Doll's House, Top Dog, Underdog, and Death of a Salesman, if I'm being honest.
- [126:20]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah.
- [126:21]
Matt Koplik
I would not be surprised. Unless they do. They can't do four unless it's, you know, super close in the, in the voting.
- [126:27]
Adam Ellsbury
Right. So, okay, so wait for so Best Play. You said this was an interesting category for you. Let's hear it.
- [126:33]
Matt Koplik
So we have, I think, two locks, which are Leopoldstadt and Fatham was the front runner for most of the season because it's so far been one of the few plays to actually do well at the box office. It's starting to teeter out now, but for like the majority of October. November, December was grossing like a million dollars a week pretty regularly. Yeah. Got good reviews. It is Tom Stoppard. It's probably the last time we're ever going to be able to nominate Stoppard or vote for him. So, you know, get it while it's hot or get it while it's lukewarm, I guess. But then fathom again, Pulitzer winner transferring from off Broadway last year, coming in at the end of the season, and I can't stress this enough, it is really good and, like, not a chore to sit through. It is quite fun and I'm looking.
- [127:21]
Adam Ellsbury
Forward to that one.
- [127:22]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I think Life of PI will probably get in there just because of the epicness of it all. Even though, again, I don't think it's a good play or even that good of a production.
- [127:33]
Adam Ellsbury
Do you think? I mean, I guess it wasn't so much more about the. The adaptation itself, but more about the production. Do you think Christmas Carol would get a nomination?
- [127:42]
Matt Koplik
I thought about that, so I don't think so.
- [127:46]
Adam Ellsbury
Okay.
- [127:47]
Matt Koplik
Because when it comes to play, it usually goes very prestige. They don't usually go with, like, what's fun. And I think of Life of PI was not an A West End transfer based off of a book. It would not be quite as high in everyone's dominating list. They'd be like, oh, you know this puppet?
- [128:07]
Adam Ellsbury
No. Kite Runner.
- [128:09]
Matt Koplik
Girl, Girl, Girl. The Kite Runner. The.
- [128:16]
Adam Ellsbury
You just said West End transfer based on a book. That was the only reason I brought it up.
- [128:20]
Matt Koplik
I know, I know. But absolute bottom of the barrel of the season for me was the Kite Runner. My God, that show. But we also have.
- [128:27]
Adam Ellsbury
Well, according to that one publication, it was homophobic trash. Remember that?
- [128:30]
Matt Koplik
Yep, I do remember that. It's not homophobic trash. It's just stupid. But Cost of Living is a Pulitzer winner. Between Riverside and Crazy is a Pulitzer winner. Thanksgiving play, I know is very well regarded and considered very topical. So, I mean, those could all get in. Peter Pan Goes Wrong is a lot of fun. It's not going to get a play nomination, but I actually enjoyed it a bit more. They play that goes wrong. Maybe because I knew what to expect. And also because it's Peter Pan, we knew the plot. So when things went wrong, we were like, oh, I know how this is supposed to go. It's right.
- [129:02]
Adam Ellsbury
This is when this Isn't the crocodile supposed to be coming on?
- [129:04]
Matt Koplik
Exactly. There's a no Mo, which I feel like could surprisingly get in there. It's just that it was such a blip in a lot of ways.
- [129:13]
Adam Ellsbury
It was so fast.
- [129:15]
Matt Koplik
It was so fast. It made, it made noise while it was here, which I give them a lot of credit for, for. But I do wonder how that noise will transfer. Will that give it a play nomination? Will Jordan then also get a featured actor nomination while Crystal Lucas Perry gets a featured actress nomination? I feel like her feels a little more open so she can get in there. I don't know. Yeah. So we have Leopold, we have Fat Ham, we have Life of PI, probably between Riverside and Crazy. And then it's like among Ain't no Mo Cost of Living Christmas Carol, I guess. And oh, and then there's also Prima Faci, which just Olivier for best play.
- [130:02]
Adam Ellsbury
And actress and actress.
- [130:04]
Matt Koplik
Well, she is, from what I understand, she is so incredible. She is winning. And also there's Goodnight Oscar which I know a lot of people like. But again that's supposedly more about Sean Hayes than anything else.
- [130:14]
Adam Ellsbury
It's just a, it's a really stacked season.
- [130:17]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And very much so for original plays and no one's talking about it which is.
- [130:22]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah, it's surprising.
- [130:23]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's. Oh God, it's so fun. I might, I might write a little slide about this on my insta that like pay attention to the plays this season because that's where they're going to be interesting at the Tonys.
- [130:35]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean it's definitely going to make the race for certain things a little bit tighter than they have been in the last few years.
- [130:42]
Matt Koplik
Oh yeah. Actor, director, play, and I would say like featured actor in a play are. They are just so many options. So many options. I look forward to seeing how it all shakes out.
- [130:54]
Adam Ellsbury
Well, we'll have, we'll have them in a month.
- [130:57]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Well, so, okay, I know you haven't seen that many but if you had to make a top five play category, what would we do?
- [131:10]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh wait, I don't know. I haven't seen enough of the plays.
- [131:16]
Matt Koplik
Why are you so uncultured? You.
- [131:18]
Adam Ellsbury
I, I don't. Because I, because I go to things that people give me tickets for and people aren't giving me enough tickets to plays.
- [131:25]
Matt Koplik
We gotta change that for you.
- [131:27]
Adam Ellsbury
I know. I also need to just like buy tickets to plays.
- [131:31]
Matt Koplik
But yeah, I'm trying to win them, them ten dollar tickets to Prima. I wanna, I wanna see her.
- [131:38]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, I didn't know that was a thing. No, I just. There, there's. I will say, like. Oh, the remaining plays that are still running this season, I. I'm interested in seeing, I think all of them. I mean, which is rare to say.
- [131:52]
Matt Koplik
What if summer 1976 is actually incredible? What if that happens?
- [131:57]
Adam Ellsbury
I mean, that'd be great.
- [131:59]
Matt Koplik
Listen, stranger things have happened, okay? Manhattan Theater Club, every time we count them out, they come back guns blazing.
- [132:06]
Adam Ellsbury
Or they give us that. What was that play that Blythe Danner was in? The Country House.
- [132:11]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah. Wasn't that with Sarah Jessica Parker? No, that was something else. They did something else together, right?
- [132:18]
Adam Ellsbury
Yeah. No, the Country House was horrible.
- [132:22]
Matt Koplik
Yes. No, no. Manhattan Theater Club definitely has a spotty track record. I can't speak too ill of them because they may or may not be reading my play soon.
- [132:30]
Adam Ellsbury
Well, yes, but. Well, but last year they also had how I learned to drive.
- [132:36]
Matt Koplik
So, you know, my absolute favorite thing last season. All right, so, Adam. Yeah.
- [132:43]
Adam Ellsbury
Hi.
- [132:43]
Matt Koplik
Any anything we didn't cover that you wanted to cover for the Tonys this year?
- [132:47]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh my gosh. I feel like I've been so unhelpful on this podcast. I haven't had my usual amount of contribution to all offer. I will say that. No, I don't think we missed anything. I think it's been kind of in like just to speculate over the season itself, it's been kind of crazy how many new things have opened this season.
- [133:10]
Matt Koplik
It really is. And a lot of good stuff, some stuff I didn't love, but also a lot of variety which I really want.
- [133:16]
Adam Ellsbury
To really varietal season. And. And I really felt. I don't know. I. My. For all my complaining about audiences and I do mean every single word. If you're listening to this podcast and you have been a pain in the ass audience member or you've been performative, when you're seeing something, you can like something and not scream and laugh harder than everyone else just to prove that you got a joke or prove that you liked a song or a performance. Don't embarrass yourself.
- [133:47]
Matt Koplik
Or to prove that you know somebody in the show that was the case. That a few things in this whole, like, oh, we. Okay, get it, you have a friend in this.
- [133:56]
Adam Ellsbury
The. The performative audience stuff is driving me crazy. But even, but that is, even with that aside, it's been thrilling to go back and see so many shows in audiences that are full and you know, and. And to see theater sort of of back up and running and kind of thriving in a way. It's, it's, it's, it's been nice. I, I hope that the, that as fertile as this season has been that it continues on in the next few years. Just, it would be nice to continue to see more new stuff. Well, I mean, Jesus Christ, we've got Once Upon a One more time starting us off real hot this year, so.
- [134:37]
Matt Koplik
And then Back to the Future. But then we get here Lies we get here finally, finally, finally. And we have Lori in her thriller and we have some other fun things on the. On the veranda.
- [134:50]
Adam Ellsbury
That's true. That's true.
- [134:52]
Matt Koplik
Sign in Cindy Brustein's window. Supposedly transferring sometime next season, possibly in the Jones, but who knows? And yeah, we'll see. It'll be very exciting. Adam, where can the listeners find you if you want them to find you?
- [135:06]
Adam Ellsbury
You know, just the ig the good old Instagram just Adam Ells A D a M E L S okay.
- [135:12]
Matt Koplik
If you want to follow me, I'm on Instagram at Matt Koplik. Usual spelling. If you like the podcast, give us a nice 5 star rating please. Or our little review. There was a brief period where I got like two one star ratings in a row and I was very nervous that my overall rating was going to go down. But then I got two 5 star reviews and all is right in the world. But still, guys, let's not let the 1 stars get the best of us, shall we? So let me read both of these reviews back to back. Hugh, the Light in the Piazza Overture. The most fun Broadway mind out there. Five stars. There's something weirdly comforting about this show and Matt's way to be informative, funny, inclusive to all theater minds and go off on tangents that don't seem relevant but paradoxically fit into the strange dance he does on each show. No matter the guest conversation glides effortlessly like a glee club singer at skater planet. It's a Broadway geek dream show. That one got Adam. Good. Thanks.
- [136:14]
Adam Ellsbury
That's a good one.
- [136:15]
Matt Koplik
That was a great one. Thank you, Peter. Next one is five stars. So much fun and smart takes. Matt brings so much life, comedy and smarts to the theater world. Love listening to his podcast for the laughs and the thoughtful knowledge about happenings on Broadway. Thank you, Ms. Dubs. Yeah, that has been a wonderful way to end this episode. Adam, who do we close this out with today? Who's a Tony?
- [136:42]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, well, I mean we've got. I feel like we don't want to do. You don't want to do repeats. Right. Of are we to Trying. Trying to do a fresh.
- [136:52]
Matt Koplik
I try.
- [136:52]
Adam Ellsbury
Fresh voice.
- [136:53]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I try not to do repeats. I wondered if today might be the first time you've closed out with a man. Oh. Because usually we do divas, but I feel like in honor of the fact that he's not gonna get a nomination, despite how much I want him to, if we close out with Mr. Nolan.
- [137:13]
Adam Ellsbury
Sure. Or I was gonna say, because they. They have. Have straddled both categories. You could give us a little Alex Newell. Mama will provide.
- [137:22]
Matt Koplik
Have I done Alex? I. Hold on.
- [137:24]
Adam Ellsbury
Maybe you did already. Maybe I missed it because.
- [137:26]
Matt Koplik
I don't know, because I have. Honestly, I stopped cataloging the divas a while back, which is bad on my part. I should still be doing it, but it just got so long, and I got too tired and depressed, and I stopped. But, yeah, actually, you know what? Let's do that. Let's close out with Noel. Let's close out with LX doing some mama will provide. Or that, like, 20 seconds of Shucked that they released on YouTube today.
- [137:49]
Adam Ellsbury
Oh, yeah, that would. Or. Yeah, or.
- [137:51]
Matt Koplik
Or that.
- [137:51]
Adam Ellsbury
Either. Either. Or. Popping those notes.
- [137:55]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, like it's a queef. Just pop it out easy. Like it. Like it's air.
- [138:02]
Adam Ellsbury
Popping it like a queef.
- [138:03]
Matt Koplik
All right, I think that that should be the new term when we were talking about effortlessly hitting a high note. Popping it like it's queefs.
- [138:10]
Adam Ellsbury
She queefed it.
- [138:14]
Matt Koplik
She just queefed it out. I wanted a nice queef double. Before we recorded, Adam and I were quoting Donna Murphy in Center Stage. I want a clean double. I want a queef double. All right, so we'll close out with Alex. Thank you so much for listening, guys. We're probably gonna take a week off and then come back in two weeks after I've seen Doll's House and Thanksgiving Place, so we can discuss a bit further and. Yeah, check us out later. Have a great rest of your next two weeks, you guys. Bye. I'm independently old and celebrated.
- [139:05]
Adam Ellsbury
I'm independently.