2023 Tony Predictions: Who'll Win?? (w/ Inappropriate Patti)

Summary

Broadway Breakdown – "2023 Tony Predictions: Who’ll Win??" (with Inappropriate Patti/Jonathan Hoover)

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

Host: Matt Koplik
Guest: Jonathan Hoover (aka “Inappropriate Patti”)

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Overview

This lively episode takes listeners deep into the heart of Tony Awards season as Matt Koplik and guest Jonathan Hoover (Inappropriate Patti) gather for their annual Tony predictions. Bursting with insider energy, industry anecdotes, and sharp, occasionally foul-mouthed wit, the duo debates who’ll take home Broadway’s biggest prizes, examines the year in theatre, and unpacks the quirks of the Tony voting process. Along the way, they offer hot takes, passionate advocacy for certain artists, and a healthy dose of theatrical shade—all while celebrating their first podcast together in person.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Tony Awards Context and Voter Mentality (04:45–06:10)

• Difference between Tonys and Oscars: Precursor awards influence the Oscars much more than the Tonys; most voters for Drama Desk/Outer Critics/Drama League aren’t Tony voters.
• Awards such as the Drama Desk can create momentum but aren’t determinative for Tony outcomes.
• Tony wins are less predictable—momentum and campaign friendliness matter, but so do quirks and personal likability.
  • “[With the Oscars] momentum gets very clear … Not the case with the Tonys.” — Matt (05:19)

2. Standout Categories and Early Predictions

a. Featured Actress in a Musical – A “Gay Rights” Category (08:25–16:10)

• Universally regarded as a “bloodbath”—every nominee lauded, no easy favorite.
• Jonathan’s heart pick and prediction: Bonnie Milligan for Kimberly Akimbo:
  • Celebrates Bonnie’s rags-to-riches path and show-stopping comic/brassy turn.
    • “She is killing it in a show... one of the biggest shows of the season.” — Jonathan (09:40)
• Both host and guest gush over Julia Lester’s wit in Into the Woods, Ruthie Ann Miles in Sweeney Todd, Natasha Yvette Williams in Some Like It Hot.
• Matt identifies potential upset: Betsy Wolfe from & Juliet, given that show's broader voter support and commercial punch.
  • “I think if there’s any possibility [for an upset], it’s the wealth-spread for Betsy Wolfe.” — Matt (15:01)

b. Costume Design of a Play – Small but Mighty (17:15–21:05)

• Jonathan loves Fat Ham’s playful color and realism mix but ultimately predicts Ain’t No Mo’.
• Matt’s bet: Life of Pi for the elaborate puppets/costumes, but expresses frustration about puppet inclusion.
  • “Those fucking puppets … They count as costumes? That’s shenanigans.” — Matt (19:27)

c. Featured Actress in a Play – The “Daddy Category” (21:36–27:01)

• Most competitive acting field per Matt; all nominees are “bangers.”
• Miriam Silverman (Sign in Sidney Brustein’s Window) identified as the likely winner for her scene-stealing, no-nonsense role.
• Strong performances also cited from Katie Sullivan (Cost of Living), Nikki Crawford (Fat Ham), Crystal Lucas Perry (Ain’t No Mo’).
• Matt: “It’s just so up in the air, and there’s not a single scenario where I would be upset with any of the winners.” (22:52)

3. Tony Awards Culture and What Makes Someone a Winner (12:06+, 28:05+)

• Personality, networking, and campaign “friendliness” play dramatic roles in outcomes:
  • “It really helps … to just be a person people like.” — Matt (13:08)
• Stories about parties, pin giveaways, and “secret” Grammy parties for Into the Woods as low-key Tony campaigns.
• Bitter humor about overly long speeches (usually from straight men), actors’ self-importance, and the “chamber echo” of industry events.
  • “If ever there has been a greater argument for writers, it’s watching actors at non-televised award ceremonies.” — Matt (35:45)
• Jessica Chastain praised repeatedly for her sincerity, class, and humility at events (33:02–35:12, 51:36–52:11).

4. Musical and Technical Prediction Deep Dives

a. Sound Design of a Musical (43:46–48:26)

• Jonathan rails against the “far away” sound of some recent musicals (esp. Sweeney Todd); prefers Shucked for clarity.
• Matt predicts Into the Woods will win, possibly New York, New York as upset.
  • “I could hear every word [in Into the Woods].” — Matt (47:44)
• On Sweeney: “You hired a 26 piece orchestra—because I can’t hear it!” — Jonathan (44:59)

b. Best Actor in a Musical (53:46–61:59)

• Both advocate for J. Harrison Ghee (Some Like It Hot): a history-making, widely beloved performance.
• Ben Platt’s (Parade) “nepo baby” discourse discussed—but acknowledged as earning his place.
• Matt nervous about a surprise Josh Groban (Sweeney Todd) win, given Sweeney’s iconic status.
  • “If you just don’t fuck it up ... you’re a contender ... just by the nature of not fucking it up.” — Jonathan (55:30)

c. Scenic & Costume Design of a Musical (63:19–66:20)

• Both predict New York, New York for scenic: “That is Broadway right there.”
• Costume Design: Some Like It Hot is predicted to win on sheer spectacle.

d. Choreography & Score/Book Debates (71:28–101:16)

• Some Like It Hot (Casey Nicholaw) and New York, New York (Susan Stroman) are leading choreography contenders.
• Matt: “Casey Nicholaw with choreography at the Tonys is like Susan Lucci at the Emmys.”
• Score/Book: Though Kimberly Akimbo is expected to win both, both Matt and Jonathan see Shucked as a compelling threat for book and, possibly, an upset for Best Musical:
  • “If this doesn’t go to Shucked, this is rigged. That is one of the smartest books ...” — Jonathan (97:00)
• Kimberly Akimbo’s score discussed as “good but not instant-classic,” with Jonathan wanting more emotional heft and being open about disappointment seeing Vicki Clark’s understudy.

5. Play Categories: Best Play and Revivals (124:35–126:41)

• Leopoldstadt expected to win Best Play, with Fat Ham as the heartpick/possible spoiler.
• A Doll’s House is Matt’s prediction for Best Revival of a Play, with Topdog/Underdog also in the mix.

6. Best Actress/Musical (“Vicki Clark Will Win, and Deserves To”) (121:26–123:14)

• Kimberly Akimbo’s Victoria Clark is a near-lock, celebrated as “prestigious,” “carrying the show,” and “well-deserving.”
• Michaela Diamond (Parade) viewed as tomorrow’s legend, but not quite there yet.

7. The Big One: Best Musical (124:45–125:47)

• Matt: Still predicts Kimberly Akimbo, but sees Shucked as the possible upset over Some Like It Hot.
• Jonathan throws wholehearted support behind Shucked: “I want Shucked to win.”
• & Juliet mentioned as the dark horse, but unlikely given how few other wins or precursor momentum it has.
• Durability and touring viability factor into discussion of what should win.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You gotta do you and like, be a shark … just do what you gotta do to get your name out.” — Matt (02:02)
• “There is merit to just being a person people like. Believe it or not, there aren’t that many in the theater community.” — Matt (13:04)
• “Any one of [the featured actress in a play nominees] could or should win … just so up in the air.” — Matt (22:52)
• “I want to be swimming in that music.” — Jonathan (46:27) [on Sweeney Todd’s orchestra]
• “Sometimes it feels good to be catty … it’s like having to make yourself vomit if you have food poisoning.” — Matt (38:59)
• “If you just don’t fuck it up … you’re a contender just by the nature of not fucking it up.” — Jonathan (55:30)
• “I will always vote for the person that didn’t come from money.” — Jonathan (56:58) [re: J. Harrison Ghee]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:11 — Show intro; Matt’s energy & guest welcome
• 04:45–06:10 — How precursor awards actually relate to Tony wins
• 08:25–16:10 — Featured Actress/Musical breakdown
• 17:15–21:05 — Costume Design of a Play (and puppet shenanigans)
• 21:36–27:01 — Featured Actress in a Play "daddy" showdown
• 28:05–39:32 — Networking, likability, Tony-winning “intangibles,” and party stories
• 43:46–48:26 — Sound Design and music clarity debate (Sweeney Todd, Shucked, Into the Woods)
• 53:46–61:59 — Best Actor in a Musical: Jay Harrison Ghee, Ben Platt, Josh Groban odds
• 63:19–66:20 — Scenic/Costume Design discussion
• 71:28–101:16 — Choreography, Score, and Book: Some Like It Hot, Kimberly Akimbo, Shucked
• 124:45–127:27 — Best Play and Best Musical predictions (with reasons)
• 131:43–133:32 — Emotional review read, fan appreciation

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In the Original Language & Tone

• Witty, candid, affectionate yet unfiltered—lots of in-jokes, playful profanity, and “debate club” energy.
• Willingness to be both harshly critical (“Sweeney’s sound design was incredibly muted”) and deeply complimentary (“Jessica Chastain stayed until the bitter end”).
• Frequent self-aware detours (“that’s another episode!”), audience asides, and inside-baseball references to Tony politics.

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Conclusion

Matt and Jonathan provide not just a set of Tony predictions but a masterclass in Broadway’s social and aesthetic currents—who’s hot, who’s not, why it matters, and how political, social, and even personal dynamics filter into Tony night. Their candid, impassioned, and riotously funny breakdown will leave theatre lovers informed, entertained, and ready to root for their favorites—with a special eye on the underdogs.

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Closing Diva: Vicki Clark

*The episode closes with a nod to Victoria Clark (“I will bend over for Vicki”) and her solo from Titanic, celebrating her likely Tony win for Kimberly Akimbo.

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For more deep-dive Broadway talk and Tony reactions, follow Broadway Breakdown and Matt Koplik on Instagram, and Jonathan Hoover (@inappropriatepatti) for social shenanigans and live performances.

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Transcript

[Jonathan Hoover]

Think of the prestige.

[Matt Koplik]

Think of the respect.

[Jonathan Hoover]

No, no, no.

[Matt Koplik]

Think of the Tony. Tony.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Tony. Tony. Tony. Tony.

[Matt Koplik]

Hello, all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history and legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I'm your host, Matt Koblick, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. We, we are not continuing with the big move just yet. We are finishing up our Tony Awards season. This is the penultimate episode because the big something of a telecast, we're not entirely sure what it's going to be, happens in a few days, but this is the final episode of Tony Predictions. Two things. One, you all have submitted predictions to us, so we're going to read that throughout the episode. And two, I am shot out of a cannon today, y', all, because I attended my third award ceremony of the season. The drama desks, which like all the award ceremonies this season that are not televised, were running super long. So I had to run out of there early before they gave out the final awards, ran home, went to go grab some food, and of course, everything was a million lines forever. And so I will be eating on pod. That is on brand for us. And also, like, I'm in a bit of a mood right now, so let's just say we try not to be a dick with our opinions, we to try with our predictions, but it might happen occasionally. I don't mean anything personally. I'm sorry. It's just like, I'm getting the food and I'm trying to get the blood sugar up. And again, we're in a vibe, but luckily we have a dear friend of the POD who I'm finally meeting in person.

[Jonathan Hoover]

In person.

[Matt Koplik]

I'm so fucking happy. You are. You are the Titanic of people right now because you're serotonin. I just want you in my veins. Welcome back to the pod. Jonathan Hoover, famously known on social media as Inappropriate Patty, but I'm not gonna call you that on Mike, but I'm.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, I do have a real name.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, I might put you on that as like the. On the title.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, yeah. That's how you definitely share.

[Matt Koplik]

If there's one thing I've learned about this Tony season is like, you gotta do you and like, be a shark and get. And just do what you gotta do to get your name out.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Hello. Hello? Hello. I made an Instagram about it. Hello.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, sure did. You sure did. One of us has been on American Horror Stories.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Matt Koplik]

And one of us has been permanently damaged from 2022.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Listen, you can do both.

[Matt Koplik]

We can do.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That's the thing about big things happening is you can also have damage.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly. And I got damaged again in 2023 because I went to an award ceremony hosted by Mandy Patinkin.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, my. Oh, man.

[Matt Koplik]

I listen, once he was told we were running 45 minutes over, he admitted that he needed to stop talking and just let people give their speeches. And we appreciate that.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Listen, self awareness is more than most people in this industry have. Yes.

[Matt Koplik]

We would prefer people to have self aware without being told to have it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Okay.

[Matt Koplik]

But after that, if you are given a note and you absorb it and grow from it, that's also wonderful.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Juilliard, man. That's Juilliard.

[Matt Koplik]

There are people who are given personal life advice and don't take it and continue.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Why are you looking at me when you.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, because you've remained the same since I've known you, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Pardon that hacking cough.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, you look exactly the same, so. Thank God.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, thank God. Moisture is working.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, moisture. What was that 30 rock line? You don't know that thing? I'm work. I'm sleeping in every night isn't working. But we digress. We have a whole Tony's predictions to get through, y'. All.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Koplik]

Now, Jonathan, you have told me off mic. You have not seen everything.

[Jonathan Hoover]

No. If you've seen my regular Instagram, I've adopted a dog in this last year, so I'm exceptionally poor.

[Matt Koplik]

Sure.

[Jonathan Hoover]

For myself. That Chipotle looks incredible, by the way. Or whatever. Yeah, Chipotle.

[Matt Koplik]

It tastes exactly how Chipotle tastes. Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well, that there is. That's why you go the Starbucks of burritos. But. So I have not seen as much in this season as I have wanted to, especially including in the play realm, which is like, where I always lash myself, because plays that make it to Broadway are always just the best of the best. Almost.

[Matt Koplik]

Regardless, anyway, I will say this Broadway season has really poned in the play department for me. Listeners know my feelings on some musicals and some revivals of musicals this season. Jonathan and I will clash a little bit on that, which is exciting. But truly, my heart has gone out to more of the plays this season and the musical, so hallelujah. And I will also say I'm not going to, like, go super far in depth of the awards ceremonies I've been to so far. I will use them as sort of a barometer. Yeah. A way that has informed my predictions based on being in the room.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Totally.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well, especially the drama desks today are like, aren't we consider them sort of the launchpad for.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. So we talked about this in a few other episodes and this is something that I really want my listeners to remember. I've said it a few times, but I really want to sink it in because this will separate them from some of the idiots on Broadway world.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Not hard.

[Matt Koplik]

Yes. Not hard. There's a difference between the Tonys and the Oscars when it comes to precursors.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Precursors.

[Matt Koplik]

Because with the Oscars, you have sag, you have dga, wga, pga. Those are all guilds that also vote for the Oscars.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right. And the momentum gets very clear.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly.

[Jonathan Hoover]

As we get into. Which it is not at this point.

[Matt Koplik]

Yes. When there's a momentum. And also because everything in the Oscars comes out in one season, everything is up for the same precursors. That doesn't always happen for Broadway. Right.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Like I was looking over drama desk and realizing Kimberly Akimbo is not in anything because it was there last year.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly. And Kimberly swept everything last year. Right. So it's hard to tell what everything. Things going for what. Also Drama desks and outer critics circle and Drama league voters, both, the majority of them, do not vote for the Tonys. Same thing with the Nominators. There's no overlap. So when. So what the drama desks, outer critics and Drama leagues can do, as you were saying, is provide momentum for some people, some shows.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Totally.

[Matt Koplik]

But that also can be a double edged sword. And we'll talk about those. Some of my predictions. Yes. So we're gonna Gap.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I'm so excited. I like, have weird, like, gay chills.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, I got. I got a little chill.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

And it's not this because we are.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Here together for the first time ever and this is actually the first podcast I've actually gotten to record in a room, not over zoom or a phone call. And already it's just so much. I like not staring at my own goddamn face.

[Matt Koplik]

I know. I love staring at your face.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It's so much better. It's so much better staring at my face.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, yes, absolutely. Well, I just got it. I got inspired looking at you. I said, oh, Jonathan. And I will absolutely have to do Tunnel of Love from Sideshow.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, absolutely.

[Matt Koplik]

Violet. I'm emotionally a Violet related.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It is. Absolutely. It is. I didn't quite put that together until we got in the same room 1000%.

[Matt Koplik]

Emotionally, I'm a Violet and I feel like emotionally you're more of a Daisy.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, a thousand percent.

[Matt Koplik]

But vocally we must flip.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I don't know, though, because I want. About the Sony mine, like, oh, you.

[Matt Koplik]

Want to belt that?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Okay.

[Matt Koplik]

And then I'm gonna have to. Then I'll have to mix. I want mine.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

So. Okay, here we go.

[Jonathan Hoover]

See, we've got it figured out. If any producers are listening. Available.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, she might be producing a 54 below show either by the end of this year or definitely in March of next year.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Love.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. We can't say what, but it's. I, we got, we got approach. It's for a big songwriter who's dead, so. Oh, yeah, he moved to the city and now he's dead.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, my.

[Matt Koplik]

Which for some reason, Jonathan, we're all over the place. And this is a lot of energy, as I said, shot out of a cannon with this one. When we recorded the Evita episode and we talked about the plot of Evita, how it starts, all this stuff, this line is just stuck in my head forever. You're like, the show opens and they go, eva Perron, she's dead. And I responded with, she moved to the city, now she's dead.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And that is.

[Matt Koplik]

That's the plot of Evita.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That is truly.

[Matt Koplik]

She moves to the big city and then she dies.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And basically pretty much rewatch that. And that's another episode, the movie.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh. If I ever decide to do a YouTube channel, which I won't because of so much work and I'm lazy.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, God. Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

The episode, first episode will be titled Madonna is bad in Evita, but it's not her fault.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right, Right. Oh, we gotta talk.

[Matt Koplik]

We will talk.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Okay.

[Matt Koplik]

Anyhow, back to talk. Let's do some predictions.

[Jonathan Hoover]

John, let's do it.

[Matt Koplik]

You're the guest. You pick. Pick a big one and then pick a small one, and we'll go back and forth.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, you mean in terms of category? Yeah, I'm. Oh, God. Because that's tough. Because I know what I think the gay rights category of this entire thing is, which is our best supporting actress in a musical. And it is by far like, throw a fucking dart at a dartboard. And any of those women deserve to win.

[Matt Koplik]

Sure.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I, I, it is by far the most competitive category.

[Matt Koplik]

I would say, I would argue a different acting category, but we will get to that.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Okay, well, I'm not gonna begrudge you.

[Matt Koplik]

This one, but I'm gonna challenge you.

[Jonathan Hoover]

To be fair, though, this is the only one that I've seen pretty much all, like, all the things in the category. So, like, I can actually, I feel the most competitive in this Category.

[Matt Koplik]

This is where you can whip out your Joe Mantello dick and.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, exactly. Oh, man. I. Don't get me started on a Joe Mantello dick.

[Matt Koplik]

That's another episode.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That's another episode. He's my idol. So this is a category where I. I actually do want to vote my heart, which is I. I really would like to see Vonnie Mulligan take it.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Because I. I adore. First of all, we are kind of like talking rags to riches story.

[Matt Koplik]

Right.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Like girl who was clawing her way into this industry day after day, then got the biggest opportunity and proved time after time after time that she can knock it out of the park. And she is killing it in a show that I wouldn't say it's hard to kill it in, but like, man, to be the good thing. And probably the biggest. One of the biggest shows of the season is like, I My heart again, I would be happy with any of them. I would also have to say that Natasha Yvette Williams seems to also be really fucking killing it. And some like it hot. But a special shout out to fucking Julia Lester and Ruthie M. Miles too. Because Julia. Julia Lester did something with a part that I kind of like the Baker's Wife and Into the Woods. That cannot get funnier than the original production. And yet.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

But I'm gonna go. I'm going Bonnie Mulligan.

[Matt Koplik]

Awesome. So I forgot I did this. I did. Who I predict will win. Who could possibly upset and then who I would vote for. And sometimes there's overlap reading. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And first of all, I do want to give a shout out to Julia Lester. My thoughts on this into the Woods I've spoken of before. I thought this revival was fine. It was not revelatory to me the way it was for other people.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It was more about nostalgia.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. What I will say.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Absolutely.

[Matt Koplik]

And it's really the cast I want to give the credit to is that they. Everyone found new laughs in that show in a way that didn't feel selfish or weird 1000%.

[Jonathan Hoover]

But again, special shout out to and Bareilles, which we'll get into that category because two of the most iconic. There are no other line reading. There are no jokes to be milled.

[Matt Koplik]

No.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And like, what they both did was found those places where jokes were done and found the new joke.

[Matt Koplik]

Absolutely.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It was brilliant.

[Matt Koplik]

They're both brilliant. I'm thrilled that Lester got in there and I'm thrilled Brillis got in there. I was saying I was. I always knew Bres would get in. I very much stuck my claim.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I just. She's ours now, right? You can all agree to that? Absolutely. I want her next musical. I want her to star in more musicals. Like, I like. Let's just. She's ours now and she's a theater.

[Matt Koplik]

Girl and I think she now feels comfy in the waters. Here I was at again, humble brag. I was at the party that into the woods threw for their Grammy win, which was essentially a cover up for like, vote for us for revival.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

In this industry we call show, do what you gotta do.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well, this is. I mean, the awards ceremony is all about campaigns.

[Matt Koplik]

Absolutely. Yes.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And you don't get nominated without a campaign.

[Matt Koplik]

Yes. And they were very smart to do. Like it was a rooftop party. There were drinks, there was food. No one gave a speech. You just went, I have my pins from that party if you want one, Jonathan, that's your gift.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Koplik]

You get to pick two if you like. But I met Sarah there and I also. And I met another Tony nominee, two Tony nominees there that I'll talk about in later categories. But I met Sarah and I had actually used to wait on her at the little beat table many years back and she didn't remember me. But she loves that restaurant and was very kind and it was just very charming and lovely and like, clearly loves Broadway and she's so thrilled with like the success that she's had there. And she doesn't take it for granted. She's just a lovely person. And I can't stress this enough, guys. When you network for this kind of stuff, when you campaign, it's not just the performance you're giving that helps. I mean, but also, like, to just be a person. People like. And I'll get to this in a few other categories later. Really helps to just be a person. Believe it or not, there aren't that many in the theater community.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Truly.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Although your biggest stars, some of them surprisingly are. Oh, like oddly.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

But that's part of it. That's exactly what you're talking about.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, yes, we will again. We'll get to them. But yes, some of the biggest legends. So fucking humble and amazing. It's sort of the thing where you've. When you've got nothing to prove.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Totally.

[Matt Koplik]

You can just be a person. And like, everyone also has their baggage, their damage. Even, like Mariah Carey got outed for being pregnant on Ellen and then had to like admit two days later that she actually had a miscarriage. Like, that's Mariah fucking Carey.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

She. Everyone's got their stuff, their shit that grounds them. So this is to say, I agree with you. I'm also voting for Bonnie Milligan. She's also who I do predict to win.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I really hope so. I just. There is not again talking about good people like, this is somebody who shows up with the real. Also, if anyone has not seen her and Natalie Walker do their shows together, if you want to witness the most talented insanity you've ever seen in your life, also, I'm gonna go ahead and say it. That fucking Bonnie gives the best. Could I leave you on the Internet? Go look it up.

[Matt Koplik]

I can't wait to look it up.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Go look it up.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, no, I. Bonnie is very beloved. She's been. She's been around and really, as you said, clawed her way in. I knew seeing Head Over Heels that that wasn't going to be her Tony nomination. She was the best thing about it, but that show for me, was not it. And so when people said, oh, she's gonna get nominated, I was like, first of all, the show's been closed for six months. It wasn't successful.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Deserve.

[Matt Koplik]

Yes, Yes. I knew that all she Needed was a 10% better show and she absolutely would get in. And then if the show were 30% better, she would win. And I do think that is Kimberly Akimbo. If there's any upset, Honestly, it would. I. I hate to say the term. I hate to say it, but I do think if there's an upset, it's Betsy Wolf.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Just because really I would think Ruthie and Miles.

[Matt Koplik]

I think there's a bit of a wealth spread that voters would want to do. I know that there are people who really enjoyed and Juliet. And I think if there's any possibility, it is the.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I think the most potentially commercial successful after this. Like, not to bash any of the.

[Matt Koplik]

Others, but it already is. It's the most commercially successful of all the new musicals this season in general. And I've spoken to a lot of voters who didn' like it and they've all questioned, like, if they liked it enough to vote for it in the major categories.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

And I think what we've seen with these precursors. And again, the voting doesn't really overlap, but it gives you an idea of where the momentum is heading. And if and Juliet were gonna win stuff at the Tonys, it would have won something by now. Yeah. And it hasn't. But that is featured actress in the musical is one of those things where, like, it could happen. I think in a perfect world, if There was an upset for me. It would be julia lester. But it's also really hard to win a tony in a performance in a musical that happened. Exactly. Plays it's easier. And we'll get to that. On that note, I want to go into three predictions that voters sent in. Let's hope that these are actually predictions. Last time I did this, I got a whole bunch of personal questions. First one, Colton ryan wins for leading actor in a musical. That is an opinion. We will get to that when we get to leading actor in a musical. We will. We have a second one right off the bat. Personal question. What color is your room, Matt? What color is my room, Jonathan?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well, the one that we are presently in is. I would call it eggplant.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Very dark eggplant. We love it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. That was the gayest answer I've ever given.

[Matt Koplik]

And yet it's because you're in my room. Next one. Oh, here we go. It's kimberly akimbo's to lose. I'm kind of feeling a some like it hot upset. Okay. We will talk about that when we get to musical. Yeah. And next one after that, another personal question. Any pets? People don't read. When I'm like sending your predictions, then they're like, here's a personal question. Any pets?

[Jonathan Hoover]

At least we haven't gotten to how big's your dick yet? You know, well, that it will. It'll be in there. I'm sure.

[Matt Koplik]

I was going to make a dick joke. Any pets? I've got one. His name is Harry and he's 9,000 inches long. I call him harry because he isn't harry. It's ironic. See?

[Jonathan Hoover]

I see. Yes, I see.

[Matt Koplik]

All right. I'm going to do two now. I'm going to count. Oh, wait, no. You have another one. A small.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, yeah. A small category would costume design of a play.

[Matt Koplik]

Sure.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Because I was. Again, I haven't seen all of them, but I decided to look at images from all of them. And I just got to say the. The aesthetic of fat ham, like the. The way that the color story is put together and the outlandishness with the realism. I. I feel like that is probably my small category prediction.

[Matt Koplik]

I love that. I. Who do I have?

[Jonathan Hoover]

I could also see it going to fat ham, which looks pretty good.

[Matt Koplik]

Wait, fat ham or ain't no mo?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well, ain't no mo is my actual prediction. But fat ham also looks. It's my number one of all the plays right now that I really want to see because I love Shakespeare and it Looks amazing.

[Matt Koplik]

Omnis. I really loved fat ham. I, I do also want to say the only reason I say between Fat Ham and Ain't no Mo is a. When you'd said you were looking at the photos of fat ham, then he said, I would also like fat have to take it. I was like, is it your prediction or is it your heart? So I got confused for a second. Sorry.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, no, I think, I think my heart and my prediction is that it'll be Ain't no Mo.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And that's only because I looked at the drama desk too and was like, oh, between the two, I've also had.

[Matt Koplik]

A few people when I shared my love of fat ham on Instagram, I had a few white gays DM me. And they said, team Ain't no Mohi. And I was like, why are there different camps for these two plays, Right? Is it because they're both written by black?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Like, these are the black plays.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, these are the gay black plays. I'm like, no, you can love Ain't no More and say like, you know, just say, I like, no, I don't like Fat Ham. You don't have to include Ain't no Movie.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

I, that's, that's so weird to me. It's like, although maybe it was just.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That they Stan Ain't no More. And it just so happens. Sure.

[Matt Koplik]

It just so happens to be that one. But I don't know. I, I, I smell a stunt.

[Jonathan Hoover]

We're all a little prickly against the white gaze.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, we aren't. Great and strange.

[Jonathan Hoover]

No.

[Matt Koplik]

And strange. Lou proved that to us.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Listen, okay, costume designer play.

[Matt Koplik]

I currently have my prediction as Life of PI because those fucking puppets.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Do they count as costumes?

[Matt Koplik]

They do.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, that's a whole other. See, in my mind, that wouldn't exactly.

[Matt Koplik]

No, no, I, Okay, I hate it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

If that does include it, then, yeah, there's no way. Because that tiger is incredible looking.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Richard Parker. Yeah, he's a power bottom. He, he crosses.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

War Horses puppets, I think got a special Tony. They were not deemed part of the.

[Jonathan Hoover]

But he designed them, right?

[Matt Koplik]

I don't think so. No, I think it's, I think, I don't know. They're. Because they're both British imports with probably not take down.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I'm racist against Brits.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. And puppets.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And puppets.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, obviously I wouldn't, I would not like Life of Paidow in costumes only because I think that puppets being in there is shenanigans.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well, and why I wouldn't have voted for it. In the same place is exactly why I wouldn't give it scenic design either.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Like, it's actually fairly simple other than, you know, they might. They should get maybe lighting or. Yeah, but, well, that's like, he's wearing, like, white pants the whole time.

[Matt Koplik]

And that's the thing is, like, now that projections are a part of the scenic design nomination, it gets tricky, but it's. That's sort of the world in which we live. We have to. We have to lean in. I could see a possible upset in costume design of a play for Lea Polstadt.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, really?

[Matt Koplik]

Because it is a period piece. It goes through about 80 years of Vienna, and it's one of those nominations where it's like, I can see nominators seeing it and be like, ah, yes, period piece.

[Jonathan Hoover]

So many costumes.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly in the same way that the Oscars always do that. They're like, we go for period piece.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Or we go for sci fi.

[Matt Koplik]

Rarely does it go for contemporary costumes.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

I would love for it to go to Fat Ham or Ain't no Mo. Between those two is actually who I would go.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I mean, when I was looking at images, I was like. I mean, talk about concept.

[Matt Koplik]

Absolutely. I think my final who I'd vote for actually is Ain't no Mo. There's very versatile, inventive comedic costumes. Yeah, that's what I got. All right. Sorry. My mouth was full of Chipotle. All right. I'm gonna do orchestrations.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Okay.

[Matt Koplik]

And featured actors in a play.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Okay.

[Matt Koplik]

Because I would argue featured actress in a play is the most competitive category.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Of this year because I haven't seen all the plays. For me, it's tough to have any opinion on it.

[Matt Koplik]

Sure, sure. First of all, I want to say I may or may not have done a post a week or two ago where I did Best Daddy. Best Call Me Daddy performances of the year, and I included Miriam Silverman from Sign and Cindy Brucein's Window. She saw it, she commented. And I sat across from her today at the drama desks, and I didn't have the heart to be like, that was me. I just looked at her and I was like, there she is. I did that.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I'm really curious to hear your prediction of this, though, because I've heard nothing but great things about all of these shows. Exactly. Like, I, I, I wouldn't even know how you could pick that's Cost of Living.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. I'm. I'm curious because.

[Matt Koplik]

So I also saw. I met Katie Sullivan at the into the woods party and talked to her and Martina, the playwright of Cost of Living. And I said to Katie, I was like, your category is the daddy category this year, because it's just like you're all fucking bangers. Any one of you could or should win. It's just so up in the air. And there's not a single scenario where I would be upset with any of the winners.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

I currently have Miriam as my winner of the night. She is, I think, the only one who's in a currently running play, because Crystal Lucas Perry Ain't no More. That's closed. Kara and Katie are closed. And then who is the fifth? Oh, Nikki. Nikki Crawford. Yes. Fat Ham. So, you know, she's also in a show that's open. Nikki. I'm so fucking glad that Nikki is in because I saw it and I was like, oh, God, I love this performance. I want it to get recognized. I'm not sure it will. It's just so.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I can't wait to see it.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, you're. I. You're gonna love it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I. Hamlet, of course.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, you're gonna.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I can't wait.

[Matt Koplik]

It's. And it's just. There's so much humor and joy. It's so good. But. But I'm glad she's in. Miriam has sort of that track that usually helps a featured performance in a musical where it's like they kind of come in, fuck shit up for a little while and then leave. Because the majority of that play comes from the perspective of these toxic, you know, lack of a better term, woke 60s people and, like, these artists, bohemians who, like, talk about their feelings, but they're all broken inside and just, like, nasty to each other. But they all have the same progressive politics are like, how can we be bad? Like, we all, like, we all think in the correct way. It's like, yes, no, you're on the right side of history politically, but as people, you're actually awful. And Miriam's character isn't an awful human being. She's just very conservative in the way that a lot of people at that time were. And she's the only adult in the room. And she comes in like two or three times for these, you know, not brief but, you know, five to 10 minute scenes and just like fucking pisses all over the floor in a way that's not over the top and then leaves without batting an eyelash. And it's sort of. It's a tonic that we need in that play to, like, get away from the Rachel Brosnahan Oscar Isaac. Like, I'm an artist and Stop saying mean things to me. I love you. Even though we're terrible for each other, like, that kind of shit. And then just Miriam comes in being like, I know how the world works. It's not great, but I get it. And it's amazing when you give an.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Amazing performance and a role that the show, like, needs.

[Matt Koplik]

It's the Bonnie thing, because as and I.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yes, exactly.

[Matt Koplik]

I love Kimberly. But part of the reason why Bonnie's role is so necessary. Yes. Up until then, we haven't had anybody who's just been nice and good to Kimberly. We have her parents who try, but they're also messes. And then, like, Deborah's also a mess, but in a way where it's like, she. It doesn't prevent her from being a good, good companion to Kimberly. Right. So we're thrilled for that. And then Bonnie just, again, pisses all.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Over the floor and. And also manages to stay out of the, like, she could have gone, like, hard lesbian lady on stage because it's got, like, all of the makings of a. Like, Melissa McCarthy, like, was the original one.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And so, like, it totally could have fallen into so many traps. And yet she managed to play that real.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Anyway, I don't want to go back to my prediction.

[Matt Koplik]

The way she goes, oh, hey, you guys, when she comes out of the window is so amazing.

[Jonathan Hoover]

So my upset.

[Matt Koplik]

My upset for this. If it's not Miriam, I have this Katie Sullivan from Cost of Living. And maybe it's because I, like, I met her. I don't know. I saw her also at the Theater World Awards. She's just been everywhere. She and Martina have been everywhere. They've been really campaigning for the play and making sure people remembered it, and they're fucking fun as hell. We got drunk at that into the woods party and talked about being cocaine skinny. It was great. Yeah, it's nice. But I don't know, it's one of those things where, like, Katie's also kind of like something you need in Cost of Living because that play is such a downer and her character's not positive. She's actually quite toxic and awful. But she's fucking funny.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

And she does it like. She's also not afraid to just be nasty. And that's really refreshing. And it's. Yeah, there's just a whole lot there. I still probably would vote for Miriam again in that. In that sign in Sydney Bruste's window. I was just like, oh, thank God, an adult. I mean, her life is also a mess, but at least she's got her shit together.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right? I would probably also choose that only because she won the Drama desk and I know nothing about this category.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, the momentum seems to be going.

[Jonathan Hoover]

For her, but again, who the fuck knows?

[Matt Koplik]

Who the fuck knows? And I'm sure I'm gonna get somebody messaging me.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I would like to see Fat Ham take some stuff, though, because I think the potential that. That gives me the vibes of a play that will have a strong regional life. And so I would really like to see it take some stuff so it can run a little longer.

[Matt Koplik]

Absolutely.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Gain. Gain a little. A little recognition.

[Matt Koplik]

Absolutely. At the very least, we can call it Tony winning. And not just Tony nominated. All right, three more people. Okay. What are the newest shows? I'll be there first weekend in August. I'm up to date on all. That's not a prediction. The newest shows. Once Upon a One More Time. I saw it this past weekend.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I'm going next week.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay, we'll talk. I will say I'm not the biggest fan of and Juliet, but I walked out of Once Upon a One More Time and went, oh, it's not that easy to be and Juliet.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right, Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Wow. Yeah. Listen, no one tries to make a bad show. Everyone aims to do a good job. Totally. So I don't love shitting on stuff. The only two musicals that they, like, openly shit on are Paradise Square and Finding Neverland. Paradise Square. Just because Garth Strabinski can suck a fat one. And he truly and I know for a fact that he fully ruined that show, whatever its potential was. He just, like, decided it's gonna be the next Les Mis and it died. But Finding Neverland, I can also tell you for a fact, no one who worked on that had any artistic integrity. They were just like, this will make money.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I saw it three times because I had friends that were understudies for leads.

[Matt Koplik]

I'm so sorry.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I know.

[Matt Koplik]

I felt my time wasting.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And you could only see, like, a glitter tornado as a redeemer doing quality once, you know?

[Matt Koplik]

And guess what? Once Upon a One More Time also has.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, a glitter tornado that. Listen, if there's something that's gonna save a musical, it is glitter in the air. It is put pyrotechnics. Put like, oh, my confetti. Oh, my God. Confetti will save a number.

[Matt Koplik]

Do you think? Rat Tat tat Tat and Funny Girl. It's a showstopper. Because the choreography is good. No, it's because they shoot confetti out of the audience.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I just. Where were the stairs?

[Matt Koplik]

Where was any stairs? Best actress winner. Thanks. Matt Koplik. Does that mean. Wait, does that mean I'm the best actress winner?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, that was a prediction. Oh, you is the best actress winner. I support that.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That is a long one.

[Matt Koplik]

It is a long one. I mean, let me be very clear, guys. I do an amazing Julie Jordan. I just need to write Billy Bigelow opposite me. If they're asking us to get to best actress, yes, we will get to them. Third one. At least two acting winners will thank the writers and mention the WGA strike.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, please. I hope they all do.

[Matt Koplik]

Everyone was just mentioning at the drama desks and that shit wasn't even on television. I'm like, who do you think you're, like, changing the minds of right now? We're all in agreement.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Literally 90% of this room just voted on a strike.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. It's like, hello, chamber, meet echo. The first two will get a standing ovation, and then the third actor will be criticized for virtue signaling. So I want to say, at the Drama League Awards, are you familiar with the drama leagues?

[Jonathan Hoover]

No.

[Matt Koplik]

It's a thing. The drama leagues are something you can buy your way into. You literally, like, pay for a membership. And the way that it works is, you know, they have best production of a play, musical revival, play revival of a musical, best direction of a play, direction of a musical, and then best singular performance. And it covers off Broadway and Broadway together, and then performance, plays and musicals together, all genders together. And there's only one winner. And lately the winners have been a bit more of like, we love your career. Even if this performance wasn't the performance, like, here it goes. Like, Sutton Foster won last year for the Music man over a lot of other people. And I love Sutton, but that is not her best performance. No.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And, like, I love her. I've been waiting for. And Once Upon a Mattress, I don't think is totally it either. Although it's much closer.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

For me, I was like, this uses none of her strengths.

[Matt Koplik]

None.

[Jonathan Hoover]

None.

[Matt Koplik]

But.

[Jonathan Hoover]

But back to.

[Matt Koplik]

Back to the thing. I only say this because I don't want to be like, the drama desks and go way too over or the theater world and go way too over. Or the drama leagues and go way too over. Drama leagues. So it's like a lunch and starts at 11 and was already drinking. And people have matinees or evening shows. It was on a Friday. And all the nominees for best performance sit on stage. It's very MGM canteen where, like, they're all eating together. And Frank Delello was introducing all the nominees one by one in sort of like groups of eight. And then there would be a break for some food and then another group of eight. And the point was that everyone was supposed to say, like, 20 seconds of like, thank you so much. This means so much to me. Blah, blah, blah. Now, some people felt that it was important for them to speak for five minutes. Yes. And I will just say this.

[Jonathan Hoover]

No one's that grateful.

[Matt Koplik]

No. And there were two winners at the Theater World Awards last night. Actually a handful, but two in particular. Culprits who were, like, basically holding the room hostage. I'm gonna. I'm gonna speak for 10 minutes. And I really don't mean to be heterophobic, but everyone at the drama desk, the theater world, and the drama leagues who spoke the longest were straight men.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Don't they have enough?

[Matt Koplik]

Don't they have enough? Must you also take all of the time? And. Well, because then it also makes people who have to follow them later on be like, fuck, I gotta rush this now. Like, poor Jodie Comer of the theater world last night. She gave a beautiful speech that she could have taken a little more time with if she wanted to, but she didn't. Because men, men were like, including a fucking Tony nominee who took his award, spoke for 10 minutes. The pianist tried to, like, playfully play him off, and he was like, I see you. We can have a battle off right here, right now if you want. And then, like, spoke for another two minutes, went back to his seat a little bit later, didn't applaud for any of the other winners, and then left halfway through the ceremony. Ugh. I don't care who you are, how famous you think you are. Douche move. Jessica Chastain stayed until the bitter end of the Drama Desk Awards until she had to go to her fucking seven o' clock show.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Is it just me or like, first of all, I don't know if she's done Broadway before, but she feels like. She feels like she is living her life right now. Like, she loves being on. Like, she's doing all the press tours. She's at everything. Like, she. I. I have been really impressed with how classy she has been as someone who. I've watched lots of stars take turns on Broadway.

[Matt Koplik]

She. This is her second. But. But this is the one where she really kind of is suggesting, yes, because it was the. The Heiress. She was, I think, only one time Oscar nominee, maybe two times, but the Heiress did not do well. She was not well. Received. I didn't like her.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And also, was it not about her? Was it. Was she the lead?

[Matt Koplik]

She was the lead, but like, she wasn't on the posters.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Her name was, but like, the only reason they're doing this is because it's Jessica Chaz Stain.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. She's front and center. She's also coming right off of her Oscar win and it's a much well regarded production. And yes. So I can say at the drama leagues and at the drama desks. So I'm about to do a double edged sword thing, which brings me back to my point. Jessica Chastain was so honest at drama desks, was so thankful. She was like, I'm gonna try to keep this short. She did go on for a minute, but she's allowed. She wore a beautiful green dress or not green dress, like green pantsuit. And like, it just was. It was earnest. But it wasn't. It wasn't. I am the moment. It was. I'm so grateful and like, I take the work seriously and I'm so thankful that you think that the work I take seriously has been good.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Less I am great, I am the moment, and more I am so appreciative.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

There have been a lot of people this season I've seen at these awards shows where they think they are. The moment where the double edged sword goes with Jessica Chastain is at the Drama League Awards. Fuck. I don't know how we got here. Oh, she gets up to say a little bit. And then she and Audra McDonald's and Ben Platt were presenting the best musical and best play awards. And so they just kind of had to sit there while everyone. While the day went on. And Jessica gets up for her bit because they're going in alphabetical order. And she's like, I went to Juilliard. It was so wonderful. She goes. And I just gotta say, Audra, we had to do this one class where you had to be like, simple and dropped in. And I used for my exercise, I lip Synced to your Mr. Snow. And thank you. It was a great moment. I was like, so sweet, so specific.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

And everyone, like laughed and applauded. And then wouldn't, you know, like, the next person got up. I was like, I first saw Audrey and Porgy and Bess and like.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And then it became.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, it became a running joke.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, this is why I got brought this up, because someone was saying two people will mention the writer's strike and everyone will applaud and the third person will do it. And they'll be like, you're virtue signal. Yeah. I will say I love my actor friends and I love my writer friends. If ever there has been a greater argument for writers, it's watching actors at non televised award ceremonies.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Just talk, talk forever.

[Matt Koplik]

So no editing and then not realize when the bit is done.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

When the 15th actor got up and he was like. So I first met Audra thinking like they were hilarious. It's like this stopped being funny 10 people ago to the point. And like you could just tell. Audra was like, this is this. I'm done. Stop, please stop, please stop.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Especially because she's got to put pleasant face on.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly.

[Jonathan Hoover]

On the fucking stage.

[Matt Koplik]

And then unfortunately Will Swenson was nominated. And so when he got it to say my experience with Audra, it actually was funny because hahaha, he's married to her.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And hopefully that's the period on that.

[Matt Koplik]

That should have been the period, but yet it made the rest of the Alphabet after him go, all right, it's funny, it's funny again.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And I'm like, no it's not.

[Matt Koplik]

Will recognize the right moment to finish it. That should have been the exclamation point. Period actors. Anyway, I love them, I hate them.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Samesies.

[Matt Koplik]

All right, so that is that person's prediction. How are we doing on time? Oh great.

[Jonathan Hoover]

We've still got some time.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, we got plenty of time. But what we got to do now is. Sorry, I feel like I'm on the amount of cocaine that I always say Broadway should be on to pick up the tempo on shit. But on that note, let's take a break.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Really, I beg to differ with you.

[Matt Koplik]

How do you mean? You're the top. Yeah, you're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble thread of the. And we're back.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh my goodness. Thank God.

[Matt Koplik]

Last time you were on Jonathan, I wasn't on a network and I didn't have commercial breaks. Now I do.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, you have commercials?

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Are they hiring? Do they need people?

[Matt Koplik]

No, just, I mean do you want to work for the truck company that's been advertising lately?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Is that, is that so you. Do you have any say in like who advertises? Do you partner with them? No. Also congratulations on getting picked up. I but always value your opinion and your words and you are somebody who I think is like building your own sort of. I don't want to call it critiquing because I don't feel like that's quite the Nuanced word of what you do because you are a critic, but you are, you write with so much love that it's so hard to assign it that word. You do. I find that you're very balanced.

[Matt Koplik]

That's very kind of you.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I'm happy to see that you are continuing to build your brand. You know what I mean?

[Matt Koplik]

Well, I will say I don't really.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Want to be a critic.

[Matt Koplik]

I am more somebody who loves theater and just have not seen the discourse publicly. Be what I think is necessary. Yeah. And good. Like holding everyone accountable, but doing it in a way that's like, not shitty. Mean.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, like not mean. We've got. I recently had a friend I've used to be very opinionated and very harsh.

[Matt Koplik]

Sure.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And that is something I've let go over time and just like started to enjoy myself and not hold things to the standard that I have in my head, but instead accept them for what they are. And I think that's part of being part of processes as they go on. And like you said, no one tries to make a bad show.

[Matt Koplik]

No.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Nobody wants there. I mean, maybe like, there is some producers scenario where, like, that's in their best interest, but like a Springtime for Hitler. Right. Like, but I, I, I can't, I can't say that I've personally seen it.

[Matt Koplik]

No, I mean, listen, sometimes it's nice to be catty.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It just, it's, it feels good.

[Matt Koplik]

Sometimes it feels good. Sometimes it's like the equivalent like, of having to make yourself vomit if you have food poisoning. It's like. Right. Like, you know what? I need to get the spile out. You get three good Judys together, a glass of Sauvignon blanc like we have, and you're like, can I say some cunt? Yeah. And then you're.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Can I be bitter about this show?

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly. Just for a minute. Like, say, just say, like, I just need to say this nasty thing. I don't truly feel it, but like, I just need to say it in a really mean way. Not, not on main in any way. And I can move on. And then you do, and then you look back and go, I'm glad that I got that on my system because now I can talk about it in a much more productive way.

[Jonathan Hoover]

The other thing there. So right now, the people's access to the Internet makes me just a little. Why I, I've not been on the Internet quite as much recently because it just feels everyone's got an opinion and boy, are they like, they cut like glass, man. Like Nuance is not.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, well, not to. This is actually where I will be shitty. I think a lot of people's artistic opinions are trash because. No, I'll say this. I've had to talk to friends sometimes who's, like, parents come into town. Like, mom. Like, well, my mom just wants to see, like, a good time, you know, she doesn't. She wants to turn her brain off and, like, enjoy herself. I'm like, okay, Is that all she expects from a show? Like, she doesn't want any stimulation in any way and, like, another person makeup. But, like, well, my dad. No, he works hard. He want. When he goes to see a story, he just wants to be taken away. I'm like, you know, we all do. But also, like, if that's the only thing you want, that part of your brain is gonna die that, like, has. That can engage empathy.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right?

[Matt Koplik]

Not. And I don't mean to just, like, criticize boomers. It's the same thing with Gen Z where it's like, if it's not your story on stage, you don't like it. You can't relate.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

And I'm like.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Or you hate it, or you hate.

[Matt Koplik]

It, or it's problematic. Like, any queer story that doesn't match a certain queer person's experience is immediately problematic.

[Jonathan Hoover]

My partner and I just had a conversation about problematic shows, and he was like, but honestly, what show on Broadway doesn't have some kind of little bit of controversy surrounding it in some.

[Matt Koplik]

That's what makes it interesting way.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Be it from Some Like It Hot to Here Lies Love to, like, every little show's got, like, a little. Because that's where we're at.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, well. And. And I will also say I talked about this with pj, PJ Adzuma, everybody, who I love. He's awesome.

[Jonathan Hoover]

We used to cater together.

[Matt Koplik]

When I storied that you were gonna be on, he was like, I love that bitch.

[Jonathan Hoover]

We've slopped people's spit wine together.

[Matt Koplik]

Love it. What we were talking about is. And I'm gonna write something about this at some point, because the thing is, even though I'm writing these, like, critiques and whatnot, I am also, like, a creative writer. I have a play that's, you know, we're being developed and being read by a whole bunch of theaters and producers right now in hopes of doing something with it. Yeah, And I saw me clapping into.

[Jonathan Hoover]

The mic for those that didn't see me gay clap into the mic.

[Matt Koplik]

I saw my equity card. I just was filmed singing for the first Time in years yesterday. That's gonna be on Instagram at some point. Not via my account, but via my friend Tyler's. But point is, is that, like, I am still kind of in the community a little bit. I'm not an outsider in any way, and I don't want to burn bridges, and. But I also feel that we do need to have these honest conversations, because the truth is that everything I'm saying isn't stuff that only. I feel so many people in the Broadway community actually have negative opinions about stuff. They're just all too afraid to say it because everyone's egos. And I do mean the word ego. I just met with an agent yesterday who, like, didn't like that I said the word ego, and I talked about, like, Broadway creatives. He's like, no, it's not that everyone. No one's egotistical. It's just. It's. Everyone's sensitive, and I'm like, that's exactly what it is, though.

[Jonathan Hoover]

You mean in the psychological term.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Ego.

[Matt Koplik]

Literally, yeah. People, when you criticize. When you criticize somebody's work in this profession, you are criticizing them because ultimately, it's an extension of who they are. And I absolutely. I get that. Which is why I feel if you're going. If you don't have positive opinions about something that someone has done and they genuinely want. Want your response about it, you have to ask yourself, how do I say this in a way where they will hear it, absorb it, and not necessarily be offended? That takes a lot of skill and nuance, and I've had to learn for a long time how to do it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Because I've. I've made that mistake in the past. Luckily, I've never done it in print on social media. I learned how to do it in person first, and then.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yes.

[Matt Koplik]

And then on this podcast. But, yeah, I mean, that's just sort of how I approach the critiquing. And I guess that's also why no one who follows me who's on Broadway has, like, unfollowed me yet.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right?

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. If I. The moment I get, like, cunty, I'm sure PJ will be like, these are too mean. Now I gotta unfollow you. I gotta go. Yeah, I gotta go.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Can't be associated.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. All right, take. Take it away, baby.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Are we doing another big category?

[Matt Koplik]

Let's do. Let's knock a couple of technical ones out of the way. Let's do both sound designs. Get it out.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, gosh. See, this is where I have almost Absolutely zero opinion. No. No offense to sound designers. Although I will say sound designers as a whole. I'm upset, and here is why I am upset, because a lot of our musicals sound very far away. I saw Sweeney Todd and I felt like the sound was extremely far away. And actually a few of the other ones that I'm feeling are not here in a musical. I'm gonna give it to Shucked because Shucked rocked. Like, Shucked was the A, we'll get to best musical category. But Shucked for me is such a great time. And like, I. I'm. I'm hearing that score. When I saw it, I felt like I. I really. Although I guess sound design is more than just the mics and the thing. Like.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, yeah. The balance and. And swimming in the music. Yeah, I. I talked about this on. On the pod. I threw my shoe when Sweeney Todd got that sound design nomination because I'm like, you didn't have to do that. It. You could have given that nomination to Parade or Kimberly.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I like, okay, no shade toward Sweeney Todd because I do think it's going to be a great cast recording.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, I actually, I do think that.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Album, I think it's going to be maybe one of the top Sweeney Todd albums. They all sound fantastic. But my biggest complaint was, I was like, you hired a 26 piece orchestra because I can't hear it. I literally there. I know that show word for word for word. Having done it, been obsessed with it, I could not hear part, like a big part. I felt. I want. I don't need it to be loud. I don't think the show needs to be loud. But music affects you because it literally vibrates inside of you. And there's been this tendency recently to move sound to make it feel like it's coming from the stage, which I do love when something feels acoustic. But it was the problem with fucking Strange Loop too, where I was like, huh, huh? And I'm. I'm 39. So, like, maybe my hearing is going. But, like, I don't think that's true.

[Matt Koplik]

No, I. The night that I saw it, Sweeney Todd, I could hear. I could understand all the lyrics. Well, or say, I could hear the lyrics. I couldn't always understand them because the dialect coach clearly went to Albania during rehearsals. That. See, that's me being shady. But also, y' all come at me because. Do you really think that the dialects on that show are good? They're not. They're just objectively not. But that's also. It was clear that that was not important. To them, that's an artistic choice. We move on. But while I could hear the words, the orchestra sounded so muted and so.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Mute and like, the. The draw for me was, if there's anything that I've wanted in a Sweeney revival, it's big.

[Matt Koplik]

I want to be. I want to be swimming in that music.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I want. And, like, okay, you got rid of the whistle, fine. But, like, I want that same tension to live in my bones. And, like, Like, I just was. I was really disappointed that I, I. I thought it was going to feel like I wanted to feel the timpani, like, vibrating in my feet, you know?

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. The tempos also were on the cautious side. Is this. I've talked about it before. We don't have to get into it too much because we're talking about sound design. But I found this revival to be very sort of meticulous, like museum curator gloves, where in terms of the text, in terms of, you know, we don't want to fuck with it too much. The show works on its own. We're not doing anything weird with it outside of the choreography. And I don't mind that. I don't need you. I don't need you to, like, fuck around with it, but I do need some fucking guts in there. I need energy, and I need.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It was missing some stakes for me. A little.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Some meats.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Some blue.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That's another. We'll get to revival of the musical.

[Matt Koplik]

My vote for sound design, I. I feel like it's so random, but part of me is like, I wonder if into the woods will win sound design of a musical just because it deserves.

[Jonathan Hoover]

To win some things.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well.

[Matt Koplik]

And again, I'm not in love with that revival. But I will say that was a case where I could hear every word. And I felt like. And I felt like the music was.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Around, balanced, and I only saw it at City center, so I can't speak.

[Matt Koplik]

I find both ways of.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, well, I'm poor. I don't know if you heard that at the top of the episode.

[Matt Koplik]

No, what it is, Jonathan, is that I'm incredibly slutty and well connected. So I get invited a lot.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I see. Oh, I see. See, I'm a hermit, so nobody cares about.

[Matt Koplik]

I go down to go downtown.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I see. I see. You still have your youth.

[Matt Koplik]

You know, you have your looks, you're pretty face. Yeah, I have into the woods winning this category with a possible upset of New York. New York. Though I would vote for into the Woods. Yeah. I mean, I also think shucks could get in There, too. This is one of those things where I feel like a lot of the below the line categories could actually spread some wealth around.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Totally.

[Matt Koplik]

Just based off of who I've been talking to as voters. Like, there hasn't been a general consensus for a lot of categories, which makes me feel like there's not gonna be an overwhelming sweep. And if there is gonna be an overwhelming sweep, I do think I know what musical it's gonna be, and we'll get to that. Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I feel like I understand what you're saying.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Sound design of a play. I predict A Doll's House, Possible upset of Prima Facie, and I would vote for A Doll's House. You haven't seen either of these productions?

[Jonathan Hoover]

I haven't seen any of them, so I have zero.

[Matt Koplik]

So A Doll's House is very minimalist, but one of the major things is, like, everyone's speaking essentially at a whisper. And the sound design makes you feel like you're listening to on audible. Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Okay. That's very fierce.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Without sounding super amplified. It's very impressive. And then Prime Fac. Just. There's a lot of different sound effects in the way that they'll sometimes contort.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It's on the top of my list. Yeah, you better.

[Matt Koplik]

If you can, if you can.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Does anybody want to take me? Nobody's great.

[Matt Koplik]

I have a list of people who would take you. Jonathan. It's okay, y'. All. He's got a partner. Who do you have for Sean? Designer plea?

[Jonathan Hoover]

No one. I, I don't have an opinion on that. I'll, I'll kowtow to what you believe.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Just because.

[Matt Koplik]

We'll take it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I, I, I'm happy to have opinions on musicals in acting and other categories like that.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Well, we've knocked out the sound design. Then. Let me do three of our submissions. Someone will say history has been made tonight. Well, I guess that depends on whether history gets made that night.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. I'm trying to think of what category. Oh, well, we'll get to other predictions, but I do think there's one.

[Matt Koplik]

There. There are.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

There are a handful of categories where.

[Jonathan Hoover]

History could definitely be made.

[Matt Koplik]

And I definitely see two potential winners saying that one in a very earnest way and one in the I am the moment way.

[Jonathan Hoover]

But no. Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

And I'm not gonna say who. I'm not even gonna say what categories, because may not be the category you're thinking of. Again, I've been in the room for a lot of these things. I've seen a lot of people accept Awards. But I will also say being in the room has been very influential towards some of these predictions later. Actually, I said that earlier. Anyway. I'm repeating myself. It's been a day. Noah Galvin, Ben's boo will not seem excited to be there.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I don't know if that could possibly be true if your partner's nominated for Tony.

[Matt Koplik]

So this is not a Noah thing. I'm not gonna say who. I was told about a person that I know who is a Tony nominee and the night of the Tony is when this person was nominated, their person would not walk the red carpet with them because it, quote, would be all about them.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Ew.

[Matt Koplik]

I know. That's to say. This is what I mean when I say, like, like, believe it or not, guys, this community is not all sunshine and rainbows because if you're not taking care of your own mental health and your own, like, yeah, you can't be there.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Sorry. Whoever that was, that.

[Matt Koplik]

That was their partner, they know who they are. Third one and then we'll move on. Jessica Chastain will cheer super enthusiastically for her fellow nominees despite having seen none of the shows this season.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Yeah. She's a supportive bitch. Wanna. Why? Because that woman has nothing to prove. She's done the thing. She's also. She has complete control of herself and has cleaned up her house. So she doesn't need to look at your house and. And have any opinion about it. She's just pleased that you're also in.

[Jonathan Hoover]

The room where it happens. She has probably a million dollar movie lined up after all of this.

[Matt Koplik]

Ten million dollar movies.

[Jonathan Hoover]

She don't care.

[Matt Koplik]

No, girls.

[Jonathan Hoover]

She's here for a good time.

[Matt Koplik]

Like, she's also like, her name is in the history books already, you know?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

With her nomination, with her Oscar win, her Emmy nomination, her incredible talent. Incredible talent and beauty. That hair. My God.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. True.

[Matt Koplik]

Also, I will say this not to like brag about having not been in the room with Jessica Chastain twice, but there's a difference. Some people, like, you can tell by their movie stars because you see them and you're like, oh, you are breathtaking.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Honestly, talking of one of the predictions earlier, Colton Ryan, when I saw him in whatchamacallit.

[Matt Koplik]

New York. New York. No.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Alice by heart.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I remember sitting in the audience being like, that kid's going to be super. You just have famous face.

[Matt Koplik]

Face. Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Like, you've just got famous face.

[Matt Koplik]

He's got famous hair.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I don't. I don't know. Yeah, famous hair too. Like, I don't know what that means, but I'm looking at you just knowing that you're gonna be in a movie one day.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Like, that's just how it's gonna be.

[Matt Koplik]

It's just how it's gonna be. Listen, some people are just very lucky and white, but.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

I say this to someone who is unlucky and white.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Listen, listen. This nose is not gonna take care of itself.

[Matt Koplik]

Jonathan, give. Give me. Give me some.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Another big category.

[Matt Koplik]

Whatever you want, baby.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Let's see. What do I. What do I feel like I have a big opinion on? You know, I don't want to get into the too big. Like, we should save, like, our best musicals and that.

[Matt Koplik]

All right, Music. Let's do musical play, and then actor and actress in a musical. Actually, no, this will do. We're gonna say musical revival of a musical.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yes.

[Matt Koplik]

Because that's also actress in a musical and then actor in a play. Okay.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. Okay. So then I would like to do best actor in a musical.

[Matt Koplik]

Grand.

[Jonathan Hoover]

As our next big category. And I absolutely want nothing more than this to go to Jay Harrison. Gee, that's. That is again, sort of similar to Bonnie watching somebody that had literally paid their dues and been working so hard in this industry and unapologetic in every bit of their work. Controversial and not. And like, holding their head high and like, giving a stellar performance in a musical that, you know, we'll see what takes best musical. But having Jay Harrison win, they. They would certainly be the draw of that production after taking that award home.

[Matt Koplik]

Absolutely.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And of course, speaking of history being made, that would be one of the. I. I would be really excited to see some of our non binary friends take some trophies.

[Matt Koplik]

1000%. Jay is somebody who, from the little that I've interacted with them, is someone who is, like, noble in themselves, but is not standoffish and austere. Like, it's. There's a difference between taking yourself seriously and just like, thinking well of yourself.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Jay thinks very well of themselves. But they're not like, I am it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right. Which they seem very relaxed.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly. Like this whole thing, it's the Audra, it's the Jessica, where it's not meant.

[Jonathan Hoover]

To be here, just meant to be here.

[Matt Koplik]

I don't need to say anything. I know. I know I meant to be here. But it is it. But also, like, is humbled by every recognition that they get, which is wonderful to see.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I can, of course, see Ben Platt taking it. When you take on this is. We're talking Like a Sweeney type role, where if you just the nature of being good in it means that you're. You're a Mama Rose, it's that you're a contender just by the nature of not fucking it up.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. There's a world in which I see Parade getting four wins that night and a world where I see it getting two. I would. I probably would vote for Ben overall, if only because I liked Parade more than I liked Some Like It Hot.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Which I think is a fair argument.

[Matt Koplik]

That said, I do have Jay as my winner. That is who I'm predicting and when Jay wins. Because I do think this is. Of all the acting categories in a musical, I think this one is the closest thing to a lock. And I'll tell you why. Featured action in a musical may not be quite the lock people think it is. Even though it's a. I would. I think this is pretty much a lock. I'm not mad about it. This is not a. Even though it's maybe not my number one, it's probably my number two of the category.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

And it's not like it's not, you know, miles apart from each other. It's sim. If I. If I like something like a hot 15 more, I probably would put you in my number one spot.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right. For me, I will always vote for the underdog.

[Matt Koplik]

Right. Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And, like, even though Ben.

[Matt Koplik]

I usually do.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. Even though Ben is incredible, incredibly talented, and can almost do no wrong. Other than the Dear Evan Hansen movie. Sorry, that's not.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, what the Dear Evan has the movie did was it made him in the underdog for Parade.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. Truly. But I will always vote for the person that didn't come from money.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. Like the. Especially a person of color who is making their way in this world.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Path that they are creating for themselves.

[Matt Koplik]

Listen, I will also say this. We have seen Nepo babies come and go in this industry. Yeah. Those that have the talent stick around.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And Ben Platt is one of our stars. Like I. We. I. I think he. That is not too diminished.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. This is for my children out there who are like, Nepo baby. I'm like, Jamie Lee Curtis is a Nepo baby. And I. I defy you to go up to her and tell her she doesn't deserve anything.

[Jonathan Hoover]

She has 1,000%. And I, like, listen, just because someone had access doesn't mean that they weren't deserved you. We can begrudge the fact that the pipeline exists, but they didn't create the fucking pipeline.

[Matt Koplik]

No, they. Listen, we all use what we Got. And. And the nepotism got them in the room. It's not what kept them.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Susan Sarandon's daughter did one movie and one movie only. You know what I mean? Like, so it's like, it isn't only the nepotism, though it is helpful. But in a category like this where I see two performers that I think might be equal, my inclination is the person that deserves this in their career needs this boost in order to launch them to the stardom that they deserve.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly. And I think it's also. It's such an easy choice where it's like. It all just lines up where it's like, wonderful performer, super well liked. The moment is them. They are doing a wonderful job. It's a chance to award some lick it hot. Which I will say, despite it winning the drama desk in the outer critics circle and the Drama League, the rooms have not been as receptive to its wins as you would think. It does. It does feel a little bit. When I've been there, when they've accepted their awards, the room has been like, well, you were our second choice, really? And I also say this about someone who won the director award of the Drama League. Fuck it. I'll just say it. When Lear debes and a won director of a musical for into the woods, as well as an honorary award that night, that afternoon, I should say, the whole ballroom was, like, kind of tepid with her applause. And I don't know her personally. I thought she did an okay job with into the woods, but I sat there confused. I was like, y' all voted for her, right? Why aren't you cheering?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

So the fact that she won and yet wasn't cheered was interesting to me, which makes me feel like directing direction of a musical is actually between Michael Arden and Jessica Stone. But that also makes me watch every time something hot has won, and the applause has always been like, yeah, pretty good. But every time Jay has either won or been mentioned, it's been a lot louder. So it definitely feels like everyone's super on board with them.

[Jonathan Hoover]

To me, they feel like the draw. Like, if there's any reason that I'm gonna go see it other than I love a jazzy score. And I was in listening to it the other day, I was like, okay, bangers. Lots of bangers.

[Matt Koplik]

A lot of big music.

[Jonathan Hoover]

A lot of big music. But I. I feel like they are the draw. So you reward that.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. It's also. That is the role of that story. Every time Jack Lemmon got nominated for the Oscar.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Robert Morrison for the Tony. Like, that's the role.

[Jonathan Hoover]

So.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, no, I'm definitely down for that. Ben would be my vote still. But again, it's like. It's very close with that. Jay is who I predict to win. I have a slight fear. Just a slight fear, Jonathan, of Josh Groban possibly upsetting. If only. Because here's why. Here is why. Here's why. Here is why.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Because Sweeney's just one of those roles.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well, first, he sounds fabulous.

[Matt Koplik]

They all sound lovely. Well, one person doesn't, but they're leaving soon, so.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Stop it.

[Matt Koplik]

Why? It's fine. He sounds great in other things.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

See, this is the thing. It's like, if you don't like one thing someone's ever done, it's like, well, you hate them. Like. No, I don't hate them.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

First of all, he's so fucking fuckable. And to all the boys, I Love Partners Part 2. I still love you, if that's what it's called. You didn't see that series?

[Jonathan Hoover]

No, I.

[Matt Koplik]

They're not good movies, but I watch them like, three times a year. They're just very comforting. When you have a panic attack, you just put it on. And the aesthetic is lovely. And he's so damn fucking cute in that second movie.

[Jonathan Hoover]

He's also incredibly talented.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, sometimes things are starting to fit. Sudan wasn't a fit.

[Jonathan Hoover]

You think Josh Groban could upset in this category?

[Matt Koplik]

I do. Because again, it's a similar situation of. Well, you know, I like Josh. And I will also tell you, there are really a large number of people who do like that revival.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I got in a debate with someone.

[Matt Koplik]

Yesterday about it, but are more into the idea of awarding Parade the award for revival. But, like, I want to give Sweeney something.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I see.

[Matt Koplik]

And they feel like Josh is a reason why they like the revival. Now, I don't necessarily like this revival. I like it. It fine. And I find Josh sounds good, is not menacing in any way. That whole revival isn't scary. But also just like, I don't know, like, I was on board with him for a second, and then, like, the moment got real with. Poor thing. It just ended for me with his journey. But that, like, that is a larger Charlotte's Web of things from, like, if you connect this to that, that's why.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That doesn't work for me.

[Matt Koplik]

This person to this person, these things. So it's all just. Everything is slightly off.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Interesting.

[Matt Koplik]

This is where I'm gonna be catty. I do think there's a reason why Thomas Kail did not end up getting nominated for director of a musical. And part of it is because there's a lot of lack of connection to each other on that stage. It's.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. Again, it felt. It felt like a very safe production.

[Matt Koplik]

And for equilibrium, everybody. Thomas Kale staged the out of Hamilton.

[Jonathan Hoover]

He sure did.

[Matt Koplik]

Sure did.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Sure did.

[Matt Koplik]

And I look forward to his Fiddler remake. I hope he makes it shorter than the. Than the current Fiddler film.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I didn't realize he was doing.

[Matt Koplik]

That's what he says he's doing. Is he. Is it actually gonna happen? I don't know.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Interesting.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. I mean, they keep saying they're gonna do a remake of Guys and Dolls. Hasn't happened yet.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That's a show that is so fun to do. But to watch, you're like, it's the same four scenes over and over. Nathan, marry me, Sarah, and will you me? And, like, then we get to some. On a boat.

[Matt Koplik]

That's how I feel. We got someone on a boat. That's how I feel about Druid. So fun to do. Kind of mad a watch.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Druid is one of those shows that I love, but I don't remember anything about. And I've seen it, like, three times.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

You know that, like, I love the score, but I couldn't tell you. Couldn't tell you.

[Matt Koplik]

I love that opening number. Okay. We did actor in a musical, and.

[Jonathan Hoover]

So I get a smaller category now.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I think I would like to go for scenic design of a musical.

[Matt Koplik]

Love it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And I think I'm gonna give it to New York, New York. I think that is their take.

[Matt Koplik]

That's absolutely their take.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. Because it's gorgeous. When I look at the production shots, I'm like that. And I feel this way, actually, about some Like It Hot a little bit too. But I'm like, that is Broadway right there. Like, just the sign alone with those lights on it. So impactful.

[Matt Koplik]

It's. Listen, I have a lot of thoughts about New York, New York. The one thing I will not begrudge them is that it is beautiful to look at a lot of the time.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. Susan Stroman has a great eye.

[Matt Koplik]

She does.

[Jonathan Hoover]

She's got lovely clean eyes.

[Matt Koplik]

Clean eye. She's the Nancy Myers of Broadway. It's.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It's.

[Matt Koplik]

It's. No, the design of that show is very impressive. I can't say it, like, 100% of the time. It's great. I think I said in my review, there are a couple of set pieces where you go, did you borrow this from Roundabout where it's like, you know that when sometimes there will be a scene that takes place like in a living room and it's just like a singular wall. Yeah. A door or wall that's like two by four.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

And that every now and then there's one of that. And the reason why that's sort of annoying is because then Beowulf does all these other moments that are so beautiful and lavish and inventive, and then you're like, could we do it on something more than a 2x4? Even like. Oh, like a floating window. That'd be more striking than like the fucking 2x4 on stage.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Also, how did I not realize his fucking name is Beowulf?

[Matt Koplik]

I know, right?

[Jonathan Hoover]

We were all forced to read Gross.

[Matt Koplik]

No, that is definitely who I have to win. Do I have it? Do I even have an upset? I really don't think there's.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I don't think that there's. I mean, I would say there's a slight pop possibility of some like it Hot, but Some like it hot felt like Tootsie, where it's like almost as big as you want it to feel.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. It's like the design is 80% there.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, still totally beautiful. Totally worth your money. But when you're talking best awards, New York, New York feels like I haven't seen a set this big in a long time. Like a full dimensional sign on stage.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, this is entertainment. Right now on Broadway feels very much like films during the Great Depression where it's like everyone is struggling if they want to escape. So it's like, let's throw the money on the stage instead of cutting costs. Let's put it up there, give them something to love. And I'm down for that.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I'm super here for it. I would like us to put it in some. In some better places in some ways. But that's a conversation for another time.

[Matt Koplik]

You've read my Instas. You know, I feel the exact same way. Yeah. I think the only upset I have possible for it is Sweeney Todd, which I wouldn't not. I would hate that award if it went to Sweeney Todd for set design. But.

[Jonathan Hoover]

But the only thing that makes that set good is the lighting.

[Matt Koplik]

Like the best we'll get to lighting 1000%. I just. I've had similar, like the Josh of it all. I've had people, like, try to defend that set to me. I'm like, it's a bridge and it's a scrim.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. And it's like a beautiful regional Set.

[Matt Koplik]

To me and a giant Dalek, which is that crane on the side.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Every time it turns, I expect to hear exterminate. But I love Mimi. I think she's a genius. So I was disappointed in that set.

[Jonathan Hoover]

But I know, I mean, it looks big. It feels big. It feels like.

[Matt Koplik]

It feels expansive.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I don't think it's a bad set. It's. In terms of best.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. New York. New York also has my vote. Scenic design of a play. I predict Life of PI. Possible upset of Leopoldstadt. I would vote for A Christmas Carol.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, interesting. Again, haven't seen most of these. I feel like it would be rude for Life of PI to take it just because most of the set is about lights. And I would probably say, at least from the pictures I've seen, it's probably Leopold Stadt. Just because that. Again, period piece.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, it's also. Le Polstadt's design is actually rather minimalistic, but it's very effective. It's very tasteful. It's very Steve Jobs. Like, I have one couch, but that couch looks amazing.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right, right.

[Matt Koplik]

But sometimes, like, the simple thing will win in designs. It's. It happens so oddly because it's so sporadic. Right. Like, when once won best set design, everyone's like, the fuck? I'm like, if you saw the show, yes, it's a bar set, but how they use it is really beautiful.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right. And people go on stage.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, they go on stage. Well, listen, I'll never forget when act two, that boy, like, passes out drunk in the. On in the bar, super depressed, and then Steve Kazee and Kristin Milioti go on, like, the roof of the bar to be on a hill, and the lights change, and all of a sudden everything just looks like it's outdoors on a hill, even though nothing's actually changed. Like, oh, my God. Including the fucking guy on the floor. He, like, becomes a mound of grass due to the lighting. It's insane.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I did not see that live, but I was casting a production of it and I was like, oh, I should go to the public library and watch it. And literally was just weeping in the public library.

[Matt Koplik]

It was a lovely show.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It was so good. I can't believe I missed it because I don't play an instrument.

[Matt Koplik]

She's lovely gal.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

So you have no.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I have no. I mean, I. I'll again kowtow to your. When it comes to technicals, it's by all means.

[Matt Koplik]

By all means. Okay, we have some listeners. Actual corn will be shucked live on stage at the Tonys. I wouldn't put it past them.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That would be a dream.

[Matt Koplik]

I wouldn't put it past that. I hope they throw some corn kernels right into Jordan Cooper's mouth and make him pop it in his mouth. That boy has a hot mouth, I hear. Fucking kidding. Imagine if I said that for realsies and like, just waited for his press team to come in and be like, you'll. We'll see you in Cory.

[Jonathan Hoover]

We'll be taking this episode down.

[Matt Koplik]

Yes, exactly. Like, how dare you. His mouth is actually piping hot. Some Like It Hot will win musical but lose book and score. Interesting. That is an interesting take. So then I wonder who they think will win book and score if not Sunlik It Hot.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well, I mean, we got to get to those categories. Yeah, absolutely. Opinions on.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, because so the all the only times a musical of this century has won musical but not book and score is either a jukebox musical like Jersey Boys.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Or Contact, which, you know, had no score and was eligible for a book but didn't win. And then we have Millie and we have Spamalot. Now Millie was able to win a whole slew of, you know, below the belt awards and was, you know, just very feel good, which is where Sunlit Hawk could come in.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

And then you have Spamalot, which was the big hit of the season and also managed to win director. I don't see Some Like It Hot winning director, which I think will do it in. And while Some Like It Hot is actually doing pretty well right now with grosses, it was struggling most of the year.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. I mean, you could get a rush ticket by watching walking up to the box office at almost any time of day.

[Matt Koplik]

Yep. And today, even now, you still could. Yeah. Because even though they're grow, they've grossed over a million the last two weeks. They're only still at like 85 capacity. They've had. They've had a hard time filling that theater for sure, which the Schubert's not.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Actually. I think it's what, like 1100?

[Matt Koplik]

That's a little more than that.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It's.

[Matt Koplik]

I think it's between 14 and 15. It feels more intimate because of the.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Because, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I love this.

[Matt Koplik]

What I said earlier on the podcast, when it came to nominations, then possible winner, I said if Something Like It Hot were a bigger financial hit, it would absolutely sweep.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Sweep.

[Matt Koplik]

If. And if and Juliet had better reviews, that would sweep because. And Juliet has the box office and something at hot had really good reviews.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

And then you have Kimberly Kimball which actually had the best reviews and sort of middling box office and Tony's love to give things to the underdog, the artistic marriage, all that stuff. Totally. So.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And to hope to bleed a little more life out of it.

[Matt Koplik]

Absolutely. So we'll get back to that last one. While this isn't a very specific award prediction. I predict. Sorry. Specific award prediction. I predict is that. Sorry, let me read this because I think they made it. Grammatical error. Okay. While this isn't a very specific award prediction, what I do predict is that the awards will be widely distributed. I said something similar. Kimberly Akimbo will be the big winner with four musical. Clark Milligan and score. Everything else will be spread out. Play wise. Fat Ham leaves empty handed. Okay, that is an interesting take.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Sounds well informed.

[Matt Koplik]

It is well informed. I do unfortunately think Fat Ham will leave empty handed, which is fucking shame.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That is a shame.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Meant to have a life.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Which is to say, if it wins anything, just know that Jonathan Hoover and.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I will be rooting for you.

[Matt Koplik]

Yes. We were all rooting for. You know, it's so interesting that people, People that, that take specifically thinks that of the four, Kimberly will win his score because I think that is where it's most vulnerable.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I cannot wait to talk about this.

[Matt Koplik]

Yes. And I, I. Yes. We'll. We'll get into it. Okay, let's do choreography.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Great.

[Matt Koplik]

And it. Let's talk about it. We'll do score choreography. Best choreography.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Choreography. On my little list of who's nominated here.

[Matt Koplik]

My prediction for choreography is Susan Stroman for New York. New York. With a possible upset of Casey Nicholaw for Some Like It Hot. If only because Casey Nicholaw with choreography at the Tonys is like Susan Lucci at the Emmys. I think it's gonna be like five more shows until he finally wins it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Or maybe this is the show that finally does it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I. I was gonna say, my prediction here is Casey, because if there's anything that I've heard about Some Like It Hot is that it is night. Nice to see a big tap dancing musical on Broadway right now. And the one thing I'll. Well, I. This is actually kind of true for both of them is it's not that. If you've seen one, you've seen them all.

[Matt Koplik]

That's how I feel about penises.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I can tell you that's definitely not true. But they. With Stroman, I feel like her style is so I, I feel like you could show me a number and I could call it out in a heart. There's gonna be a kid tumbling. The women are going to be beveling with all of their lives. There's definitely inside fan kicks, like, you know, like, I, I, I, I feel like I have a more predictable. Where Casey Nicholaw is kind of like that because he. But he's still on the newer side and because the dancing keeps being. Being that. That was my prediction for this. I would not hate if this is the only thing K Pop took, because it deserves some sort of love after the horrible things that happened to it.

[Matt Koplik]

You mean it's bad producing.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yes, exactly.

[Matt Koplik]

That's okay. Also, your mic is, like, weirdly off. I hope you haven't been distant this entire time.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, God.

[Matt Koplik]

I've talked about this before about K Pop, where people. When K Pop and Ain't no Mo both announced closing. Closing within like, 12 hours of each other. Everybody's like, thanks, Mr. Broadway and your racism. I'm like, thank the producers who did a shit job of putting the shit job of putting these shows up. That said, I actually have as my. As who I would vote for. It's a different Jennifer Weber nomination.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I have gone Juliet.

[Matt Koplik]

I would give and Juliet K Pop. My issue with the choreography for K Pop was that it wasn't very tight. Mmm.

[Jonathan Hoover]

See, I didn't see it. So.

[Matt Koplik]

And, and listen, if there's one thing that, that, that That K Pop is famous for, it is, like, uniform, militant.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That's why I was like, maybe I would hope that that would win. But I.

[Matt Koplik]

You know, it's one of the things where, like, on paper, you go, absolutely. But then, you see, it's interesting, when the nominations came out and Philip Pissu and Andrew Burnapp weren't nominated for Camelot, I was like, oh, that's very surprising. And then I saw it that day, and I was like, I get it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I see.

[Matt Koplik]

I see. I see why they were not.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I'm gonna say something controversial, yet brave. Safe space, which is that I. I have the most lukewarm feelings about Philippa Sue. I do.

[Matt Koplik]

I'm gonna tell you something, Jonathan. I don't totally share the feelings, but you are not alone. People have approached me like they are Russian spies during the Cold War. And they're like, can I tell you something?

[Jonathan Hoover]

It's because she's beloved.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Listen, I've. I very much am obsessed with her voice, and I.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Her voice is stunning.

[Matt Koplik]

I also think I just have super fun, warm memories of seeing her in Great Comet in the tent three times.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right. Which is what anyone who loves her always talks About.

[Matt Koplik]

Yes. That is where I first fell in love with her. And for me, it just worked so well in that show. And then, like, I thought she was lovely in Hamilton, but Eliza's honestly a dud of a role.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Totally.

[Matt Koplik]

And then Amelie, I was like, I'm not liking her, but this show is a dud. And then Camelot, before Camelot, because you didn't see her in woods on Broadway. You saw Danae.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I saw.

[Matt Koplik]

And see. So I saw Danae do. I saw Danae do Great Comet on Broadway after Philippa did it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And I was like, I didn't even put that together.

[Matt Koplik]

And I was like, if Philip. Wait. Oh, that's like, the running joke is that they've been trading off roles because they also both have now played Eliza. But I was like, if Philip had gone to Broadway with Great Comet, that would. It would have been more successful. Just like that show worked better with. With Pippa because we're friends. But then I argue Danae was a better Cinderella. I mean, Philippa sounded lovely. Well.

[Jonathan Hoover]

But if there's one thing that I would. Philip is not very funny because what I. Because here's what I do give her as an actress is I think she makes. And this is the thing about Juilliard trained actors. They train their men to be wild.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

To be. Make crazy off the wall big choices.

[Matt Koplik]

To be Kevin Klein.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And they train their women to be Laurelin. They train them to be intelligent. Not regal. That's not quite the word, but it's very austere. Yeah. They train them to be very quietly powerful.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And it doesn't work for everyone. And Philippa, sue, for me, is someone that I feel is held back by how technically great she is.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And there's no danger.

[Matt Koplik]

Speaking of Laura Linney, there's a reason why Laura was a better Regina than Birdie in Little Foxes. Right.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well, number one, because. Because Cynthia Nixon is Bertie nice.

[Matt Koplik]

Cynthia Nixon cries on command. Yeah. Like that.

[Jonathan Hoover]

There's just. When they were announcing the reverse of those roles, I was like, why? There's only one cast that, like, it's not that. There's only one that you want to see, and it would be interesting to see both. But, like, out of the two of them, you need Cynthia Nixon as Birdie.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. It just makes more sense.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yes.

[Matt Koplik]

And I. And there's a reason why they. Why Manhattan Theater Club put them forward for those roles for Tony. Right, Exactly. Laura Linney just. She has that, and she can.

[Jonathan Hoover]

She's too smart. She's so fucking smart.

[Matt Koplik]

Even when she's playing, like, working class women in, you know, movies or whatever. Like, there's still just this command to her. That's not like, that's not a bad thing.

[Jonathan Hoover]

No, I want it.

[Matt Koplik]

But if we're in the. In the spirit of intelligently and in depth conversations of people's talent and sometimes where their limitations lie, that's limitation because I feel like people. It's the similar thing of, like, when your parents say you can do anything you set your mind to. Actually, I can't. I can't ever really be a professional basketball player.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Even if I were good at it, which I'm not, I just won't die if I play it. But no, and part of it with Camelot also, is that the role of Guinevere as written in Aaron Sorkin's book. And Aaron's book is just like, there's no heat in that show. And they. They. You can tell. Sorkin and Cher are two people I would never go to for chemistry and heat. But they're like, we're gonna make a Camelot that fucks like, well, you cast three fuckable leads.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

And then you give, like, Guinevere no feelings towards Arthur, and then you try to gaslight me in the final scene and say that she loved him all along. I'm like, when? When did that happen?

[Jonathan Hoover]

All I've got to say is when I heard that they were reviving. And now, first of all, I've been in New York for 16 years, and there has been a Camelot revival on the horizon for every single 16 of those years.

[Matt Koplik]

Yep.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And so I've always been like, is it. Is it coming? Oh, are you the director that's gonna do it? So I guess, bravo that it's finally happened. But I just. I have one question and one question only. And that is why?

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Why?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Like, why the show? Why now? Why the theater that can risk the most when it comes to giving me grandeur and giving me, like, a. Lincoln Center's a not for profit. They can actually do the thing.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And have that. We got this, like, very cold looking set with very small cats of a show that, like, isn't very socially like, they. I have always hated South Pacific. I would list it as my least favorite musical until I saw it at Lincoln Center. And then I realized, now, granted, I was also an adult approaching the musical's theme.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

But, like, Camelot doesn't have that potential. You know what I mean?

[Matt Koplik]

Like, I feel like every. Every 10 years, we get a revival that reminds us not all golden Age musicals are equal.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Are golden.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. They're not all golden or. No.

[Jonathan Hoover]

What's the new term we're supposed to be using? Neoclassical musicals.

[Matt Koplik]

Fuck that in the ear. I'm gonna say what the fuck I say with this. But first of all, that not all golden age musicals are golden. But also, I feel like we. Every 10 years, we also have to come back to this reminder is like, if you're doing a revival of a troubled work and your approach is, I'm gonna fix it. You're not gonna. That's never worked. The closest we ever got was Hell Princess candide in the 70s. That's the closest we ever got. And even then, people had problems with it. And, like, each year, people like, I'm gonna fix what Hal Prince did.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Never has worked. So. And again, noblest of intentions with wonderful artists. And yet it's what it is. I don't even get here. We were talking about.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, choreography.

[Matt Koplik]

Wow. Were we talking about. We were talking about choreography, right? Strowman, Nicola, all that shit.

[Jonathan Hoover]

We got to. Somehow Philippa sue got brought up, and that's what that. That took us up. Get to Philip, because I can't. Because I came out of the closet.

[Matt Koplik]

As not a lover of her.

[Jonathan Hoover]

As not a lover.

[Matt Koplik]

And listen, again, as I said, many people aren't. But also, I've been very open on this podcast as not a lover of Aaron Tveit.

[Jonathan Hoover]

So I feel similarly about both of them, actually. That's exactly. I would put them in a similar category where it's like, I have no problem with the fact that they're working, but, like, I'm never going to be like, oh, my God. Yeah, they're in a show.

[Matt Koplik]

I. I am more Team Papa than Team Aaron. But also, it's not a competition. It's not Aino Mo versus Statham.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Everything is a competition. Everything. This is theater, darling.

[Matt Koplik]

I'm the most opinionated. I will alienate everybody in this industry. Choreography.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Okay, score, score.

[Matt Koplik]

I do predict Kimberly Akimbo. Possible upset of Some Like It Hot, and I would vote for Kimberly Akimbo.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Now, you earlier said that you thought that that wouldn't be.

[Matt Koplik]

I said that's where it's most vault. Vulnerable.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I see. I see.

[Matt Koplik]

Because I do know people that are voting for Kimberly for best musical, but not voting it for score.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well, and here's where I feel like, again, we'll get to this category. But I. I think I agree with you that Some Like It Hot will probably not take the best musical and talk about spreading the wealth. If There is a category that it. It soars in now are. Is the score incredibly diverse? It is not. I will. I will say that it all has the big band sound at all. However, there's some real bangers in there. And in terms of, like, big, big. But like I told you, I don't listen to things until I see them. But I made the exception to listen to this cast recording because I didn't want to come in here uninformed. Totally. And, like, I don't feel like I've heard some of these, like, Big Banger Girl belty ballads like. Like this style in a. In a season or two. I mean, I know we get some of it in New York, New York, but that's music that I. Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

So my issue with something like a hot score as. As you mentioned, like, not a lot of variety. Every song starts to sound the same, to be perfectly honest. And they're not unmelodic. You're not like, oh, God, this song's so unpleasant, and we have to hear it again. Like, no, they're all pleasant to listen to, but you kind of forget a lot of them as you move on to the next one. One. And they're also always, like, at an 11.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yes, that is.

[Matt Koplik]

Which is also how I feel about Casey's choreography for it as well. But I felt that way about Casey's choreography for a while now. My joke is that I feel like he took away the wrong lessons from Tuck Everlasting, which he was like, oh, more choreography. No, no, use it in the right places, Casey, and make it structured. But, like, I don't. That's just. That's my personal take, because as someone who, like, thinks that the original production of Jahcy Chaperone was just genius from the moment it began to the moment it ended. I remember that, and I go, I want to see that again. My issue also, I think that the show severely underserves the character of Sugar, and part of it is also in her music, because the movie Sugar, as played by Marilyn Monroe, and this is not an Adrianna Hicks thing, although I have notes on her performance as well. But also, like, good luck trying to stand up to people's, you know, idolization of Marilyn Monroe. But the role is written in the movie is Sugar Cane is actually kind of a tragic figure. But because the movie's a comedy, things do work out for her in the end.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

But on paper, that girl is, like, two steps away from becoming the American Sally Bowles. Like, she's a she.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right? Right.

[Matt Koplik]

We make jokes of like her bad life decisions. She drinks all the time. But like on paper, those are sad things. She's a mess, right. And the musical, this version of the musical wants to give her independence and her dignity, which I respect, but at the cost of what makes her an interesting and complicated character.

[Jonathan Hoover]

So they've taken some of the. The duality of her.

[Matt Koplik]

So they take her problems and they make it more sort of like, is it like, aren't men the worst? Like very romcomy, right? It's like. Is like, isn't it annoying how I drink to numb the pain? Like that kind of energy? And I'm like, I wish we had more of that messiness. And then her numbers for me, because.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Adriana song is so good.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, Adriana has a range that. That could me in every orifice.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Literally. Was listening to the cast recording today and was like, this girl is get.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, everything.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I hope that that rang in the microphone the way I really just banged my head at it. Because I wish. Holy.

[Matt Koplik]

I wish though that they wouldn't lean on the last half of every one of her songs to go to her roof.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

It's because I'm just.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Guys, there is a formula in the.

[Matt Koplik]

Show and I just want to say I feel like we all watched Jakina do Let it Burn and were like, oh, what a dynamic, beautiful, amazing number that like, if I write that for an actress, they will win the Tony and like it will be iconic. And I'm like, that's actually not a very good song. The lyrics mean nothing. But also like, it's just the fact that Jakina's a huge, huge, huge, amazing talent. The most compelling presence with like, like does the tear thing in a way that doesn't make you go, okay, actress you're actually like feeling for. And then it has a voice that just sounds like, you know, again, me in every orifice, Daddy. But that's her. And with sugar songs, I'm like, I would love it if one of her ballads actually didn't go to the rafters. Exactly. Let her live in the middle range or like allow her to use her mix or head voice.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Also for a show called Something Hot, I don't find the score's jazziness to be hot. Yeah. And granted, like when I think hot jazz, I think Lachius Wild party, which is like grind your pussy on the furniture.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Just listening to that on the way here.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. This cuz we're the same person. I just, I want for a show that also talks about how like big sweet Sue's band, like, doesn't really get swinging until, like, Daphne comes in and, like, they include more of, like, the African American ear in jazz. I'm like. And yet it still sounds painfully bubbly and white.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

There's no stank on it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I do hear that my thing with Kimberly Akimbo.

[Matt Koplik]

Go for it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Is the score for me was the part of the show that I actually felt the most disconnected to. And I will get to my opinions on it in Best Musical. But I think that that is because I expect a lot from Ms. Jeanine Tesori. She has ripped my soul out in one half of her canon, and in the other half, I've left toe tap it and, like, say, you know, like, she's written some of my absolute. I was just saying this to someone the other day. Like, I don't feel like she's really had a sophomore novel. It's, like, all been. You know what I mean? Like, just, like knocking it out of the park with every. And this, for me kind of music musically felt a little bit like no song affected me. And again, we'll get to some stuff because I was also up against. Against some challenges, I think, for the show.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay.

[Jonathan Hoover]

At that moment. But I, I. The score felt it kind of reminded me of Matilda's score, where it was a lot of like, I'm this way and I'm that way, but sometimes I'm not. And it's like, okay, then what are we. What are we singing about then?

[Matt Koplik]

And I love the score of Matilda, but I totally hear what you're saying.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. Like, it's very. And like, Like a lot of it. And I do love Tesori. Use this in Caroline or change a lot too. But I feel like it's the nature of Carolina change, setting up the world, which is a lot of. And then I went to the basket and I pulled out my dress, but it was wrinkled, so I put it back. It's like a lot of, like. And then I went to the bedroom.

[Matt Koplik]

Sure.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And there I saw a picture. And you were there. And I was there. And we are here. Like, it's very, like, this is happening right now or. Or happened off stage. And I'm singing very specifically. It's not very. It doesn't live in a very emotional world until, like, I would say maybe like, the. Her breakdown or the last song. And even that still is very, like, and you did this. And I am this. And I'm, you know, like, I just. Which I. And again, it's because I went to Kimberly Kimbo being like, this is going to be the best musical I'm going to see all season. I am ready to have my world rocked. I am so excited to see, like, the art musical of the season. Like, this one's not pandering. This one's here just because it's good. And so it was up against my expectation. And the score for me was the thing that I was like, ah. I was like, I wanted another Violet. I wanted. You know, I wanted another fun home.

[Matt Koplik]

Have you listened to the cast recording at all?

[Jonathan Hoover]

I have not.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I have not. Because, again, I went in blind and then left being like, I don't want to listen to this.

[Matt Koplik]

I. I hear you. So I first saw Ms. Akimbo at Atlantic, where I liked it a lot and also went in with the expectations of, like, oh, my God, this is going to. This play adapted by these two people, like, was starting with, how could we go wrong? Exactly.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

And it. And it was really, really good downtown. It was really good.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I feel like I would have appreciated it more down there, too.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, so I think also because by the time it came to Broadway, it was a year after the Atlantic run, and it had won all the precursors last year. So I was like, oh, fuck. And, like, in the. And the reviews were all like, it's amazing. It's gonna move. And it did. It did get better on Broadway in a lot of ways. It got tighter. Okay. It got more polished. They also softened the parents a bit, if you can believe they see.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And that was the other thing. So funny enough, I compare it to Matilda, because what it felt like to me is Matilda's story, but she's old and not magical. I just hit my microphone.

[Matt Koplik]

I feel that. And now also, because I've seen it a few times, the parents in the show. And I do think that Ally Mozzie.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And Susan Boy are doing one of the most incredible talents, and they're both wonderful in it.

[Matt Koplik]

What I find with their characters. And again, I think part of it is that I had read the play where the parents are actually, like, legitimately awful and then saw it at the Atlantis where they were not as awful, but, like, still kind of shit.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

And then on Broadway, so, like, seeing that. That change, they are still bad in the sense of, like, they're just terrible parents.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

And they're not great people because they're narcissists and they have Arrested Development. But the way that Ali and Steven would play it and there are, like, moments of it is. You can see that they try.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

They're just such fuck ups that they don't know how. And, and part of, like, I think for, I think for a lot of people, I don't mean to, you know, project. No one wants to be read for filth by like some faggot with a podcast. But the idea of, you know, you can only watch someone try and fail so many times before you're like, okay, enough already. I, like, it's hurting my heart. But there, but there, I think there are nuances and layers to each time they fuck up. Right? Because sometimes it's, you know, you know, the dad shows up late drunk in the opening scene. He didn't even try. He got distracted. Second time he fucks up, he actually does try. He's just too dumb to realize that the passes are expired for great adventure.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right?

[Matt Koplik]

And third time, he actually tries to give up drinking and he's successful at it for like a week. And then just like, life gets too hard.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Least favorite line in the whole show. Did we run out of water? Oh, God.

[Matt Koplik]

There are worse lines in shows, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I know. But first it was a moment that felt like they wanted to have a big kind of emotional break for not emotional break, but to have a disappointment for us as an audience.

[Matt Koplik]

Sure.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And I was like. Like, I don't know. But again, we're gonna get to one big fact of why I think part of the music, but we have to get to the best music. But I will.

[Matt Koplik]

So the other thing I'll say is I also felt the first two times I saw this show, I liked the score. I was like, yeah, this is Tesori. You know, it's melodic, but it's also like, not. It doesn't like, go into your veins immediately. It usually takes a second or third listen to go, oh, fuck. And ironically, I just saw Days of Wine and Roses like, a week or two ago, and I don't care for that score. And I mean, like, it's ghetto, so, you know, there's beautiful music, but it just felt unfinished. And then other people said the same thing I said about Kimberly Akimbo. Like, I think you should probably listen to it once or twice. I'm like, I just couldn't find a way in. So I'm full of contradictions.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I do need. And again, we'll get to it. I do need to give the show a second chance for one big glaring reason.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay. I also think you should listen to the cast recording because I will also say the sound design on Broadway is good. I don't like it in the Opening number. It's a little loud. And you actually can't hear the balance of the harmonies for the kids that Tesori has written. Because the kids vocal arrangements in that show.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Those kids are giving it.

[Matt Koplik]

They're giving it. But Tesori's arrangements, them are also fucking incredible. The whole show's score vibe, for me, it's kind of like fun home Caroline Jr. In the sense that it is incredibly varied. But it's not like hitting over the head with like. And now we're going from this genre to this genre. It's like all very lighter versions of it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It.

[Matt Koplik]

Which that's like not a critique of people who don't like it or anything like that. It's just. Objectively, I feel like it's similar, but not as you just.

[Jonathan Hoover]

You actually just said. Exactly. I think what my disappointment was is it felt like the junior version of some of my great. My fit. Some of my absolute most favorite works. And I wanted it to be that I wanted it.

[Matt Koplik]

I feel that so bad. You need.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And that's not its fault.

[Matt Koplik]

No. I think if you give it a second chance, you do have to think of the whole thing as being slowly lowered into a warm bath. That is the whole show's vibe. It's never about like major showstoppers, despite the fact that Bonnie Milligan is.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Bonnie is like literally. I almost gave a mid show of a show that I was feeling lukewarm about. I almost give her a fucking mid show stand.

[Matt Koplik]

I also. I mean, Tesori also loves to end a show with the lightest of notes. Like her musicals, for the most part do not end with a big final note.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right. It's always like, yeah, that is very fair.

[Matt Koplik]

I also mean Make A Wish is a song that did it for me the first time I saw it and that I. Even though if I couldn't remember the melody. But then when I got the cast.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Recording the final song.

[Matt Koplik]

No, it's so it's Kimberly's I Want song in Act 1. She's writing to Make a Wish foundation, which has a lot of the lyrics that you're referring towards. Like that. And then I do this and then I do that where it's all stream of consciousness as she's writing the. The form.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

But part of it for me just felt like the conversational element of it felt realistic and like it was seamlessly coming out of the scene into that moment. And then when it gets to the me, which is the. Her fantasizing the three wishes. I want to be a model For a day, bump, bump. For me, it all works. That said, that's what makes this whole business of show so fucking infuriating when we get to awards. It makes it fun, but also infuriating. Nothing's good or bad necessarily by fact. You can talk about structure. Know this moment doesn't connect to this one continuity. But when it comes to, like, the quality, much as I have touted myself as having correct taste, it's art. It's all subjective.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right, Right.

[Matt Koplik]

So even though I'm like, Paradise Square, finding Neverland, go fuck yourselves. Someone's gonna come along and be like, I love these.

[Jonathan Hoover]

They were my favorite.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. And here's why. And like, probably give me a reason that'll make me cry. So, yeah, I absolutely hear you. And. And I hear other people's critiques. It's why I'm not convinced that it's a lock for score. I do ultimately think it will win. And the only reason I say that's not just my own bias. Again, I'm not going off my biases. I'm going off of people I've been talking to.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right. And any are loving it too. I feel. I. And that was again, part of why I think I expected had such high.

[Matt Koplik]

And the people who were like, I think I'm still gonna vote for it, but, like, I'm. I'm iffy on one or the other. It's been either score or book. And then the options they have are either sun like it hot or shucked for either. And thus I'm like, I don't think the different bodies of voters for shucked in something hot in those categories are going to be large enough to take away from Kimberly overall. So, like, I think Kimberly will still win in those two categories scoring book. And we'll get to book in a second. But I don't think it's gonna be like 90% of the votes. It's gonna be, you know, 50 and then shucked and stumbling it hot each get 25.

[Jonathan Hoover]

25. Right, right.

[Matt Koplik]

That's what I think it is.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I wish we could see those final numbers.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, wouldn't that be great? We should do a heist movie that's all about two gays trying to get the heist.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, yeah, there's a play.

[Matt Koplik]

There's a play right in there. Okay, so that was score book. Let's do book.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Let's do book. I am going to say if this doesn't go to shucked that there. This is rigged. That is one of the smart jokes on jokes on jokes that are not just jokes for the sake of being jokes, but are also like intellectual little nugget puzzles that you're like that. I have never been so tickled by a book as I was by Shucked. And again, this is kind of the opposite of Kimberly Akimbo. I walked in with no expectations and had no idea that the book was going to be so good. That is a good, good book. And I loved, loved that the plot is a simple old school plot. No, no unnecessary anything. Just a good time done smartly.

[Matt Koplik]

I also want to say when we go into shows, people go, well, going with low expectations. They say, no, no, no, no, this is Broadway. Don't have a low expectation. Go in with an open mind.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Which is. Which is not what you said, but you said expectation, which triggered when people say, hello, expectations. So I just wanted that on the record.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yes, I hear that for the listeners out there.

[Matt Koplik]

Don't go in with low expectations. When you see a Broadway show, go one with an open mind. I think if I still will predict Kimberly for this one as well. Again, I also. Kimberly's got to win one of those awards, if only because David Lindsay Aber has yet to win a Tony award and that's got to happen to him at least once on Tony night. That said, absolutely. The biggest competition is Shucked.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Shucked. This book is so good.

[Matt Koplik]

And this is the thing about it though, where I'm. This is another reason why I feel like Kimberly might kind of just sneak in there. I think Shucked won book at the outer critics circle and sunlight hot one of the drama desks and then Shucked in some lickin hot split score at the drama desks this year. And I know I keep saying they're not real precursors and they're not, but it's one of those things where, like, if there was more of a unified front in the community about like, it might feel more like a real threat. And again, in no way do I think Kimberly has either of those categories totally sewn up in a way that I don't think any show this year has most categories sewn up. Like, I think the only thing everyone's willing to put down $10,000 on is New York, New York for scenic design.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right, right.

[Matt Koplik]

Everything else we're like, yeah, I'm like 85% sure.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

But yeah, I, I think. And also if I were to have Kimberly get upset by anything, it would be shocked. Which I think my only complaint about it is I do think it's a little padded. I would like it to be a tight hour. 45.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I do agree that there were. There are some cuts that could be.

[Matt Koplik]

Made that said where Shucked is like, I think 210 total. And I'm like, hour and 45, you know, 25 minutes, right. Easy cuts here and there, right. Once upon a one more time, two and a half hours. And I said, make her 85 minutes. So that is a testament to that. I don't think Shucked is bad. I think it's quite good. I'm. But I'm someone who, like, I think these five should jokes are absolute fucking bangers. And those four suck. And I know the whole point of Shucked is like, it doesn't matter. Like, it just keeps moving quantity, quantity, quantity. And I'm like, but I was like, but I think this could like, get up there with the producers and Book of Mormon if we cut the four losers, right?

[Jonathan Hoover]

I. I do, I do. I do feel that.

[Matt Koplik]

And I also, on paper, like the idea of the score having a lot of balance to like calm down from all the stupidity of the book. And I say stupidity with. With love because Robert Horne would be like, yeah, no, it's stupid. But I do wish there were a few more uptempos in the score.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, one, that my only complaint about the show is that at times the music did not match how intelligent the book was. And not to say that the music wasn't intelligent, but there's so much wordplay in the script. And then the score was actually very real and very. That I wished that we needed a couple more uptempos in the sequel second act. There were a couple things that could be cut, but overall it was my. So far. My.

[Matt Koplik]

I think that. I think my. The best thing I can say in terms of feedback about it as I talk about, you know, my constructive criticism is that none of my criticisms are like, change that. You know, fix that or anything like that. It's literally just cutting.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right?

[Matt Koplik]

And editing is both super easy and super hard to do. As I say, as someone who overwrites.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Over talks, I know we're like three hours in almost.

[Matt Koplik]

We're fine. But this. This show is one room. It's like, I think we cut 20 minutes and it'll be a banger fest. But yeah, I think I have it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

As an upset shucked, but Kimberly Akimbo take.

[Matt Koplik]

But. But I'm saying Kimberly, like 65 to shucks 35. It's not. It. The margin is wide enough that I still feel confident about Kimberly, but not so wide where I'm like I'm sleeping tonight Feeling good. I still got that knife under my pillow waiting for Shucked.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I'm hoping you get it Shucked. I think that your book was hallelujing.

[Matt Koplik]

All right, I'm gonna bang out a couple of reader ones and then we'll go back to ours. Anonymous message. Michael Arden has just got to win direction of musical. We will get to that. Sweeney Todd will win awards another show is more deserving of. Depends on which awards you are talking about. K Pop wins, quote, unquote, something. Jonathan, did you write that one?

[Jonathan Hoover]

No, I did not. I did not submit.

[Matt Koplik]

Although I still think Kimberly is most likely to win best musical. I wouldn't count out Something Like It Hot entirely. The Fun home, American in Paris comparison isn't really fair because Fun Home was better than Kimberly. And Some Like It Hot is far better than American in Paris. For what it's worth, no Tony voter I know has loved Kimberly, and yet no Tony voter I know has loved Some Like It Hot. So it's all about perspective. I'm not. I don't. I feel like I mentioned the Fun home American in Paris comparison. More sort of in jest that it was. We have a musical version of a 50s movie and another Jeanine Tesori musical. It is not entirely the same comparison, but that said, I'm. It's more about just like, don't count out the small show.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

And. And An American in Paris. No, there's. There's another year where I was like, this is. It's more applicable to this year, but I can't remember what. It's gone out of my head. Or you or. They're right. And Something Hot does win entirely. I do think Something Like It Hot is better than An American in Paris was. It's certainly more interesting. I found America for sure. Found American in Paris boring as hell.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well, I mean, the source material also is so much better.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, someone wrote, everyone forgets New York, New York exists. We didn't forget. That's all I gotta say about that. We didn't forget. It exists. I am very aware of the quality of that show and I doled out the awards I think it's worthy of. Bonnie Milligan will win featured actress in a musical. Her acceptance speech will be both. Both the funniest and most emotional of the evening. And she will mention Matt Doyle. Will she? I know they're friends, but, like, she's got other friends.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, but I mean, they. They are like bestie besties.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, I guess in sort of.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Like Matt, we both.

[Matt Koplik]

You want. We both that are like, you won the bet. Like that kind of thing. What's that? What, what's her face? That tick tock YouTube personality who does like the. The girl who's getting broken up with.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Tonight or like, oh, Caitlyn Riley.

[Matt Koplik]

She has one of like the actress who wins the Oscar. And she's like, like, Steven and I had a bet. He's like, you're going to win. And I was like, no, I'm not. Well, Stephen, I lost the bet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Caitlyn Riley's.

[Matt Koplik]

She's great. Another. What color is your room? Jeez. Why do people want to know what my room is? Like? They want to see where I just.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Want to get in it. Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Emily Ashford has momentum. That's just because she's won awards that Vicky won last year.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

That's not the same thing.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That's actually what made me realize that Kimberly Akimbo was last year. Just because I was like, like, wait over Victoria Clark. No offense, Emily, but.

[Matt Koplik]

And everyone talks about, you know, well, she won the drama league. Sutton won the drama league last year.

[Jonathan Hoover]

She.

[Matt Koplik]

I was like, I. Everyone loves Annelie. That's why she's winning right now.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Totally. And she's totally good. She's the show. She's fine, doing a, a good job.

[Matt Koplik]

She's giving the performance I knew she would give. It's not a bad performance. I just knew it's what you would give. People love Annelie. That's why she's currently winning the precursor. And listen, maybe she do win. But also, like, I've spoken to five different people who are convinced it's Michaela Diamond.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Interesting. I mean, that would be my upset pick.

[Matt Koplik]

That's my upset pick too. Someone else wrote Casey Nicholaw winning director. I love you guy. That's not happening. Okay, on that note, let's do director of musical, director of a play. Love Director of musical. I have Michael Arden with a possible upset of Kimberly. Of Jessica Stone for Kimberly. But I do still think it's Michael Arden.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I think it's Michael Arden, and that's.

[Matt Koplik]

Who I would vote for.

[Jonathan Hoover]

If I'm being a. He. He made a show that I don't think had any consideration of a life on Broadway that I've been waiting to come to Broadway. I still can't afford to see it. If anyone out there wants to be my sugar daddy. But to, to. To get something like this conceptual. And yes, he has star power behind it, but he's also one of the.

[Matt Koplik]

Most talented directors and in my opinion, gets better with every show.

[Jonathan Hoover]

1,000%.

[Matt Koplik]

I famously did not love his Spring Awakening, but then I really liked his Once on this Island. I had a grand time at once.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I loved Once on this island, but I was in the one place that I definitely think he thought of as the back of the theater.

[Matt Koplik]

Sure.

[Jonathan Hoover]

So that I. I do have a bone to pick with you on that one.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, but that's the thing. He keeps getting better because Christmas Carol was also super delightful. Parade, I think, is his best work yet. He still has some sightline issues with Parade as well.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Interesting.

[Matt Koplik]

But also, like, as we get better, we have things we keep learning.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Totally.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. So we both have Arden for winning.

[Jonathan Hoover]

In my. In my opinion, there's no question there.

[Matt Koplik]

Direction of a play. I currently have the winner as Patrick Marber for Lea Polstadt. Just because I think it's going to win play possible upset. Max Webster for Life of Pie. Just because it's so stagy.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. I would say if. If I. I feel like that is probably because when you bring technical elements and puppetry and all of that, I could see that taking. And as someone who has no opinion, because I had not seen any of the plays, that would probably be my vote. Just off of, like. Like a purely sort of intuition based, like, looking at the statistics.

[Matt Koplik]

Also, it's more. It has happened more often where someone has won director of a play and it hasn't been for a revival or play winner than for someone winning for a director for musical that hasn't won revival or musical. If I were to vote, I would vote for Jamie Lloyd for Doll's House, a production I walked in thinking I was going to hate, and it totally changed my mind.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Really. That's why I haven't seen it, because I love A Doll's House. And I was sort of like, I think I'm gonna be mad about that.

[Matt Koplik]

You might be. You might be. I'm not, like, super attached to the original play. I like it, but I've also, like, I don't know it inside.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Also, Sam Gold's Glass Menagerie ended almost the exact same way with the doors of the theater flinging open. And so I'm like, well, the. The gag has already been gagged.

[Matt Koplik]

My gag reflex is gone. I found it very compelling and very tense. So I really liked it. But I lack. Alas. Before we move on, let's take one more break. And we're back. Okay, let's get some readers. Kimberly Sweep with a few spoils and acting categories. I. Again, I Think if I do have a world where Kimberly actually sweeps like seven awards that night.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Interesting.

[Matt Koplik]

But again, the categories that we're talking about are ones from like, I think it'll win but like with like 50% of the vote.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Just and not, I think, because there are people who love it, people who respect it but don't love it, and then people who like the other shows but it's not an overwhelming love for everything else. It's gonna be an interesting award ceremony. No one really knows what's gonna happen. Another person, Jessica Chassian over Jodie Comer. We'll get to that. With actress in a play. Tonys create a new surprise category and give best ensemble award to the Kimberly Akimbo cast. Justice for Ally Mozzie. They should give out an ensemble award.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I actually absolutely think that should be a thing. They should also go back to offering a musical direction award.

[Matt Koplik]

They should. Except nobody knows what the fucking musical director does anymore. Play. It'll probably be Le Polsta, but I want it to be Ain't no more. They think actor of a play will go to Sean Hayes. Oh, we will get to that. Actress Jessica Chastain.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, they get full predictions.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Featured actor will be Jordan E. Cooper. Featured actress Crystal Lucas Perry. They're not both winning Musical will be something hot. Actor, musical. J. Harrison G. Actress Victoria Clarke. Featured actor Alex Newell. Featured actress Bonnie Milligan. Revival parade. Okay, we've covered some of those. Thank you, guy. Sorry to say, but I have an irrational amount of anger that Ben Platt will soon be a two time Tony award winner. Many greats don't even have one. Not fair and not a fan. Love your podcast and thanks for talking, Tony. So much fun. You're welcome. I'm sorry that you're gonna be angry if he wins. I. Listen, I get that when someone we don't really like keeps getting success, we're sort of. We sit there and we go, am I crazy? Am I the problem? Is it me?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right?

[Matt Koplik]

Am I Taylor Swift? Like, is it me? Hi, I'm the problem. It's me. And we don't want to feel like we're crazy or our opinions are trash. So we're like, no, everyone else is trash. I think there's a happy balance. Sometimes it's just like the way that the world spins. I think Ben could. I don't think Ben is a lock to win.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I don't.

[Matt Koplik]

I think. I do think it's Jay. I think Shucked is gonna pull out a surprise and win best musical over Kimberly. We will get to her. Okay. We did orchestrations, right?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yes.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay. Scenic design, Costume design. Lane design. Okay. Featured actor in a play.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Featured actor in a play. Another one I'm going to have almost no real opinion on, but I have a personal opinion on.

[Matt Koplik]

I am gonna predict Brandon Uranowitz.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That's who I want. That's who I personally would like.

[Matt Koplik]

With a surprise upset of Jordan E. Cooper. As my listener said, this is also.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And actually probably same with Jordan E. Cooper, but someone who has been cutting their teeth, really paying their dues all these years and, like, deserves the recognition.

[Matt Koplik]

Absolutely is so deserving. Has been around, has been nominated a bunch of.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And his husband and I did a production of Oliver when we were children together, and I made him watch me sing Olive on My Own on a patio once. So we're close. Like that.

[Matt Koplik]

Yep.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That happened.

[Matt Koplik]

I almost cut off my skin in that sentence because I've done similar things.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. He. When my Patty thing took off, he messaged me, was like, do you remember that or not? Do I.

[Matt Koplik]

Featured actor in a musical. Okay. I've brought up this example many times. Do you recall in our year of 2021, Chadwick Boseman was predicted to win Best actor at the Oscars? So much so that they put that category at the very end so his widow could accept the award on television only for Anthony Hopkins to win. Aha.

[Jonathan Hoover]

So you feel like we're in that situation with Alex Newell here?

[Matt Koplik]

I do. I'm still predicting Alex.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I think it should be Alex.

[Matt Koplik]

I have spoken to not one, not three, but six different Tony voters who have all said, well, Alex is gonna win. But if I'm being honest, I really loved Justin, who is also, even though Kimberly isn't eligible for anything for the Precursors, has actually been in a whole bunch of the awards this year to present, like, get his name out there in a way that's not grading. Not normal, but also not grading.

[Jonathan Hoover]

He's so good, too. He is just so good in the show.

[Matt Koplik]

And what I said was comparing it to the Hopkins Boseman thing. It's simply that if enough people think someone's a lock and vote for someone else, that lock ain't a lock no more.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right. And I will be so gooped if fucking Alex Noel does not take this.

[Matt Koplik]

Will you be shocked?

[Jonathan Hoover]

I will be shooked. I will be shooked.

[Matt Koplik]

Listen, I do think it's Alex. I. I hope it's Alex. I Al I. Sometimes you just got to go with your gut. My gut. Even with this bug in the back of my brain, I Am still going with Alex and maybe I will be gooped on Sunday and I won't be upset if Justin wins.

[Jonathan Hoover]

No. He's so charming in the show, especially seeing how he is in life versus how his character is. I'm like, oh, wow, you're real good. Yeah, I believed you. I was like, wow, they sound like perfect because the part is so interesting and could easily be really grating and annoying.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

He just makes it so lovable.

[Matt Koplik]

And he and Vicky have amazing chemistry.

[Jonathan Hoover]

We'll get to that.

[Matt Koplik]

That's one of the things that bothered you.

[Jonathan Hoover]

No, we'll get to.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay. I would give.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It's a big part of why I would like to talk about the best music. My best musical prediction.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, is it because you think John Bellman and Alex Newell have the hottest chemistry of the year?

[Jonathan Hoover]

No, that is also true.

[Matt Koplik]

Those two couples compete for the Sally Murphy Michael Hayden award for best chemistry. But yeah, no, so that I have Alex as the. As my prediction with Justin is the possible upset only because of. Of that. But again, the six I talked to could be the only six of the 800 voters. Right.

[Jonathan Hoover]

So I would be very surprised. Alex Newell does not. I mean, like, that song is everywhere that, like. And not even on the behest, I think of just them being in the middle of a campaign.

[Matt Koplik]

Sure, we all thought it was going to be Raul and then that gay David Hyde Pierce. That gay came in and won for Curtanz. But it's one of those things where we'll look back on whatever happens and be like, oh, it's so obvious. Looking back now, I'm like, yeah, everything's obvious five years later.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right. I also, I'm just so here for a sin female role being played by someone nominated in a best actor category. Like, give it to me. I can't wait till we get rid of the genders. But like, I, I do. There's also another part of me that's like, yeah, do it. Yeah, do it.

[Matt Koplik]

And there's, there's, there's merit in both hands. All right, next up, we have leading actor in a play.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Leading. Okay, again, another category that I have ideas, but I can't necessarily speak with too much authority, but I'm very curious of your thoughts.

[Matt Koplik]

This is where I just want to say, not to boast, but being in the room really fucking changed it. Going to the Drama League Awards. And as I said, like, people get up and they, as nominees, they get up and they're supposed to say like, 20 seconds. Stephen McKinley Henderson gets up for between Riverside and crazy. And I shit you not, the entire room, the entire Ziegfeld ballroom fucking erupts the way they didn't for chassis or comer or for anyone but yells like erupts. And I just, I walked, looked around, I was like, oh, fuck, he might win the Tony. And then at the Dramadex, he got a special award where he just got a standing ovation from room people that were like, already so tired because Mandy Patinkin went on a whole rant about the WGA and how corporations are ruining artistry and then told critics who weren't even in the room to be kind. And everyone's like, I'm so tired, Mandy. And then they're like, and Stephen McKinley Henderson's here for a lifetime achievement award. And everyone's like, yes. I was just like, like, oh, fuck. I think he might win because he's first of all, again, it's a chance to recognize a play that closed that probably isn't going to win play.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

He is so beloved and I made a mistake a few weeks ago with Kyle Marshall. He has not won a Tony yet. I was wrong. He hasn't won yet. So I think it could happen. If there is an upset, it is going to be Sean Hayes for Good Night Oscar.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, I was going to say that's who my prediction is just based on the buzz that I feel like I'm.

[Matt Koplik]

Hearing and you know, as one other quote unquote precursor. But.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And it will also give this. The ability to take it to Los Angeles with him. You know what I mean? Like, they're, they're which plays don't often get to have that kind of life. But because it. The nature of it, having him and giving a star turn performance.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Having seen Goodnight Oscar, I wish that play were better.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It's.

[Matt Koplik]

I don't think the play is very good. I don't even love Sean in it. Oh, no, it's not that Sean's bad. It's just. It's very like. It's a ticky kind of performance. It's all about the ticket.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

And he does them well and he plays the piano like a motherfucker. But I don't know, it's one of those performances that I watched. I was like, oh, we were like told to avoid these in college. And so like, it's like triggered my BFA training. But I mean, he absolutely has a shot. I know people think that he's a lock, but I'm just saying don't think so much that he's a lock. I just. I feel like there is this love for Stephen McKinley Henderson that. That can't be shown with precursors because of ineligibility. But if you were in the room for the drama league or the drama desks, it's undeniable how loved he is.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I mean, I think it's clear from my sort of inkling I will always vote for the person who, like, fucking deserves it. That for me, I mean, the performance totally matters. So if it's both, then they deserve it.

[Matt Koplik]

I personally would probably vote for Corey Hawkins, who are. Who I'm still thinking about on Top Dog.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Underdog, however, who I'm also a huge, huge fan of.

[Matt Koplik]

But his co star left me cold yesterday at a certain event. But we'll move on from there. Actress in a play. I think it's Jodie Comer with a possible upset of Jessica Chastain.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I. That is. I feel like I don't see it going any other way.

[Matt Koplik]

Everything you could say about Chastain, you could say about Comer. Star power. They are the show. They are giving everything. Everything that Chastain's doing on the award circuit, Comer's doing too. And neither one feels like a shark. It's just.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It's good times and we, like, have. So. Sorry. I just got, like five texts because I had to turn on my phone to let my partner know that I will be on time, I think.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Relatively on time.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Having Audra McDonald in any category is also intimidating. I think that everyone here is probably blessed by the fact that Ohio State Murders is so long over.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And didn't run like. Like everyone's wiping their fucking brow right now. But I. I feel like, you know, it's rare that you hear about something coming with Tony buzz before it's even stepped on the stage. And Jodie Comer has come here. Like, I. I was warned months ago to get tickets and. And that was correct. There are no tickets. You know, it's like.

[Matt Koplik]

It's one. Having seen her being told, like, put her name on the award now. It's one of those performances for the ages. I was like, okay, we'll. We'll see. I love her in Killing Eve, but, like, so many times you see film actors not translate to stage.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I can name names.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. And she truly is incredible. It's a performance that I just adore.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Jessica's Chastain is doing something pretty remarkable with Doll's House, and so I feel like there is also worthiness. And to have an Oscar winner like that also be. It brings such Prestige to the show.

[Matt Koplik]

Listen, give me a Matt Koplik sandwich on Diva Bread. Jodie Comer's one slice. Jessica chastise the other slice. Actually, on JC Bread, I should say, give me a Matt Koplik sandwich on JC Bread.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right. Hello.

[Matt Koplik]

I am here for it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That was clever. It took me a second to realize both of their initials were jcs.

[Matt Koplik]

See, I'm just working a little. You're playing checkers, I'm playing chess.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. You know what I mean? I also took a hit of my pen before I even got in here. You know what I mean?

[Matt Koplik]

I love it. For you. Revival of a play. I am going to say Doll's House with an upset of Top Dog, Underdog. But my vote is still Doll's House.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I. I would agree with you there.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. It's revival.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Especially if there's a possibility of Jessica Chastain not taking the award.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly. Because she would still win a. For producing Doll's House.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

So we'd still be honoring her and.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Getting close to hurt. You got.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly. Revival of a musical. I do think it's Parade. It's Parade.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It's Parade.

[Matt Koplik]

It's not Sweeney Todd as an alternate. It's into the woods is the alternate.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I would agree with that.

[Matt Koplik]

However, we've yet to have a musical revival that's been closed. Win. Now.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I don't. Yeah. And I don't. I don't see that happening.

[Matt Koplik]

Trends are meant to be broken. There's always the anomaly. But I don't think. Listen. Okay. Call into the Woods. Fill up a Sue, because that's not an Amelie. An anomaly. Get it. Get out of.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Get out of here.

[Matt Koplik]

I know I'm fucking terrible, but no, I. They've. And they've worked. They've been. They haven't campaigned. Campaigned, but they've been around. But I don't think that everyone's as excited to, like, vote for it again as a lot of the fans think they are.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Totally. And again, it was fine. So. And Parade is. Again, it's. It's big. It's. It's not big. It's just well done.

[Matt Koplik]

And it just feels very much of the moment. Like, if it feels that it is tapping into something that we need right now totally. While also being theater.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And it's, like, for the nerds, but they've actually managed to give it enough momentum that, like, it's selling out. It's one of the most expensive tickets on Broadway right now. Like, that. There's something to be said for that.

[Matt Koplik]

It's sort of Like Parade finally is a hit. Right.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And it like Jason Robert Brown musical finally being a hit. That's not fucking last five years. Thank God.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. A Jason Robert Brown musical might actually make money on Broadway now. Right? Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

And I have it on good authority that if they do win, they will extend till the end of the year.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, really?

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, because they extended a couple of weeks, I think into early September.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I wonder if they will continue with Mikayla and Ben. I'm sure they'd have to.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, I think. Well, listen, I mean, anything could happen. I think that they. What I. If. If they extend it will be with them. How far that goes is. But I have a good authority that they plan to extend should they win, which is very smart actress in a musical.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I mean, it's gonna go to Vicki Clark. Let's be like, you don't have someone this prestigious in a musical. And you know what? I'm just gonna go ahead and get into why the. The best musical category for me, it may not be the deserving show is I did not see Vicki Clark.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay. Jonathan Hoover.

[Jonathan Hoover]

That's why I was holding on to that.

[Matt Koplik]

I am going to hold your hand and drag. Drag you to the booth.

[Jonathan Hoover]

But here's my thing.

[Matt Koplik]

Yes.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I don't think a show that cannot survive without its star lead necessarily deserves to because the show did not survive without her. And that is no shade to the woman that was stepping into the part because it was her first day, number one. But I. I know watching it, that the love that has come from that show is 100% on Vicki Clark's shoulders because the show did not work without her.

[Matt Koplik]

I. I have also seen Colleen. I saw her a little later in the run, so I think she had gone on a couple of times.

[Jonathan Hoover]

It was her first. And I. And I only. In fact, my. So my partner and I sat down and literally opened the program and it was like, victoria Clarke's not here. Oh, that's why we got a free ticket, number one. And then like. Like we had the moment of, like, is this. Is this her first show? Like, it's giving me those vibes. And his friend is a producer on it, which is why we got. And he was like, oh, I didn't realize you're gonna see an. Understood. He was like, yeah, it's her first show. So we were trying to, like, fill the house with friends so that it felt nice and warm.

[Matt Koplik]

I. I don't think that the show relies on Vicky to work. I'll put it this way. Imagine Judy Kuhn Playing Kimberly Akimbo or playing Kimberly Lavaco. I think she would make it work as well. It's just someone who is. Who has the rehearsal time.

[Jonathan Hoover]

And here's the thing. I know Vicki Clark is killing it. I saw her imprint on the show. You know what I mean? And so like, for me, this category is I Michaela diamond is my heart. I again watching somebody who came onto the scene at 19. I will never forget her Bat Mas and Cher show as long as I live. I've also done a concert with her. She's a lovely actual person too. I would love to see her decorated. I don't think this is her show. I I think she's entering the ether of our Patti LuPone and our like, she's definitely. This is. She's stepping into our. Our world.

[Matt Koplik]

But this is her Robert Bridegroom.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yes, exactly. Totally. This is her like Share show wasn't while she was one of the standouts, to me, the show was not successful enough for her to break into this world. And now we're seeing her for. She was the person I thought we should revive Funny Girl on.

[Matt Koplik]

Apparently she went in for it. She went in for the standby and didn't get it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, I heard that.

[Matt Koplik]

But craziness to me.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

I also know they saw like every white girl in America for the standby in that show.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

And like Julie's wonderful. But like Julie's absolutely. But it's. It blows my mind. Like some of the people I know who went in for that, I was like. And they still went ahead with the original casting. They had knowing like the talent that could have been just. That could have quote unquote just been the standby.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Best play lea polished. I wanted to be Fat Ham. I would vote for Fat Ham. Fat Ham could upset. But I do think overall Slaya polished.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah, I think I agree with you there. Just based on the buzz and then musical.

[Matt Koplik]

I still predict Kimberly. I would vote for Kimberly. My possible upset is not some like a hot doll. It is shucked.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Mine is shucked. I want shucked to win.

[Matt Koplik]

Just and again, this is just from who I'm talking to. The people I've spoken to have felt sort of similarly about Shucked and some Like It Hot in the sense of like, you know, I had more fun at those shows than I did at Kimberly, but I think Kimberly's a better musical. But people have been more surprised by how much they've enjoyed Shucked than they have Some Like It Hot. But then I also have like a like One Tony voter friend who's very like pro Ann Juliet, even though he didn't admit that he just voted for Kimberly.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Well, I was about to say, though, you could see in Ann Juliet upset because a lot of producers look at this from the angle of what's going to make me the most money. And giving it a Tony gives it the ability to tour for a really long time. It gives it credibility for all the regional theaters to pick it up. However, I don't think it'll win because it's going to do all of those things regardless of whether it wins a Tony or not.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, I think Shuck has a solid year and a half run in it without a Tony win. With a Tony win, we're talking two to three.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Two to three. And I think same for Kimberly, although Kimberly will probably shut down much.

[Matt Koplik]

I think Kimberly, we're looking at more a fun home situation, maybe a little longer because Kimberly's a bit more of an upper than fun home. The trouble with Kimberly's longevity is casting the title role. It's just not even just who follows Vicki, but like it's such a specific Bernadette Peters, honestly. But it's a certain age range, it's a certain vocal type and a certain kind of acting style and then hopefully someone who can sell tickets. You just don't know.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, would I be mad about Audra?

[Jonathan Hoover]

No, Audra, she looks too good. She'd put that old lady wig on and you'd be like, she's 40.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

What are you talking about?

[Matt Koplik]

Audra's 15 years too young for it. Is the. Is the problem. But I don't know.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I also.

[Matt Koplik]

She wants to.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Because I felt this way about Colleen, the understudies voice. I assume I'd feel the same way. I'd like to hear someone who's got a little more ping in their belt.

[Matt Koplik]

Interesting.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Only because I understand that she should feel a little out of place. But the one thing that was missing for me is like, is where she is young other than just in spirit. And so I feel like if there was maybe a little something, like if it wasn't quite a legit voice, if it gave me a little more mixed belt.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hoover]

At points I feel like it would give me that duality of like, oh, right, she's fucking 13.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. 16, actually. That's because I may. I have to say that I want you to listen to Vicky only because she does a lot of what you're saying while also still having the classical stuff. Like she'll flip into her head voice and that is a little more classical just to show us that is an older body. But when she goes into her chest mix it is lighter and pingier. So it's for me it's that nice blend of she's 16 in the body of a.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Like you said Judy Kuhn. I went. I would see.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Okay, so those are our predictions. Let me wrap up our people who messaged most nominated shows. Some Lick It Hot will walk away with zero wins. Uh oh, I don't think that's true. I think they at least win costumes which I don't know if we talked about costumes of a musical.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, we didn't.

[Matt Koplik]

And they will. They're win now. Jay Harrison, Vicki Clark, Alex Newell, Bonnie Milligan. All the Kimberly Akimbo love one hopes possible. I think that's a very solid lineup special Tony for Will Swenson having to be Audra's plus one for all the Tony events after getting stumped for lead actor. Will is greater than Colton Ryan. We don't have to snub Colton Ryan to praise Will Swenson, y'. All. He's already won by being married to Audra and putting a baby in her. And Audra's won by getting a baby put into her by Will Swenson.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

I do love Will. I just don't think Beautiful noise is very good. If Bonnie Milligan doesn't win, I'll commit felonies.

[Jonathan Hoover]

I wouldn't go that far. But I will be upset.

[Matt Koplik]

I will. I will spray paint this the side of a theater. Which. Which theater? I can't tell you. Whatever cheats out of Bonnie. What are you doing tomorrow? Fucking your dad. That's what I'm doing tomorrow. That's. I. Jonathan, I don't know what to tell you. These people, I'm like like give you predictions. What are you doing tomorrow? That's not a prediction.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Also, it's anonymous. So like are you. Are you asking me out Because.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, I've gotten those two. Which aren't as flattering as you think because it's like I don't know who you are. I'm 90 sure Kimberly will win musical. But in a. But in a world where that and some like and hot split the majority I'm afraid. And Juliet could sneak in as the winner again. I'm gonna say event Juliet were gonna win. It would have won one thing.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Just to show that the love is there.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. And people are enjoying it like that.

[Matt Koplik]

That is clear wins. That could spell Kimberly losing. Best musical, best score, best Book wins. That could spell a Woods revival. Win literally any award it's nominated for. If woods wins sound it could win revival. I don't know how Kimberly. Winning score and book means it won't win musical. Unless they're trying to do, like, a Urinetown Millie reversal here, right?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Or ragtime.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, but again, Lion King, we're talking like, this giant juggernaut. We don't have a juggernaut against Kimberly. Who was your crush in middle school? Laugh my ass off again. It was your dad. Have you ever watched Harry Potter again? Yeah. With your dad. And that's the end of our predictions, y'. All. We've got two new reviews that I just want to read really quick, and then we're gonna get Jonathan the fuck out of here because Jonathan's got people to see and I am alone on a.

[Jonathan Hoover]

No, my co worker booked a cruise, so he's leaving us.

[Matt Koplik]

Well done, co worker.

[Jonathan Hoover]

All safe. Saying goodbye to him tonight. I missed dinner so I could be here.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, thank you so much.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, I couldn't wait.

[Matt Koplik]

I can't. I'm so glad we did this. All right, we have two new reviews. Please cue the light in the piazza. Overture music. Five stars. You're a queer one, Mr. Koplik. And that's why I look forward to Thursdays. I feel like a fly on the wall while listening to your podcast. You're so engaging that I don't even realize you're gone. You've gone off the rails or off on a tangent until you decide I'm off on a tangent. Tangent. I'm very self aware. Your guests are fantastic. Until today. Like. Like PJ in your latest episode. Oh, right. This was, like, three weeks ago. I'm also a huge fan of Kyle Marshall now since I've discovered him from your show. And I can assume that we all agree that the timbre of Kyle's voice is dreamy. Kyle does have a very low register, and it is very nice.

[Jonathan Hoover]

See, people probably think I'm a woman. God damn it.

[Matt Koplik]

That's your. That's what you present. It's your thing. You're. It's not woman, it's just diva. Never stop being the highest judge of all when it comes to the broad way. And there's a couple of A's there. Thank you, Pete from Princeton. Okay, this last one might make me tear up a bit. I'm sorry, everybody. A true gem. 5 stars. I lost my best friend in the entire World in 2019. One of the things I have missed the most since that loss is our intelligent, informed, and, yes, catty discussions about musical theater. It has been a huge void. Cue breaking Broadway Breakdown. Matt. I truly look forward to Thursday mornings because this is the closest I have felt to replicating those discussions, both in terms of Broadway knowledge and witty banter. There is simply no Broadway podcast like it. Each episode is loaded with astute observations and deep dives and feels quite like driving around with my BFF gossiping about the current and past states of Broadway. I am grateful to have found.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, that is so sweet. He's crying, by the way. Everyone should know that at home I.

[Matt Koplik]

Get a little teary. I don't think I've actually cried on this podcast before. And I've cried so much in the last six months. I've had a time, Jonathan. But yeah, thank you so much for that. That was really beautiful. I gotta say, I've been requesting reviews lately and I may have been, like, threatening my guests with, like, it'll make me feel better. But, like, you guys, you've been fucking killing it with these. With these reviews. They're just, they're. They're either incredibly funny and, like, hit my warm dead heart, like, they're one. Called it the Kimberly Akimbo podcast. I'm like, you know what to do. I'm waiting for a smile reference again. People used to do smile references all the time and now this one was just so lovely and heartfelt and well worded. You guys are good writers. That makes me so happy. I don't. This is not a bragging. Right. I am very grateful that the people who choose to listen to my podcast have written such smart and well written reviews. I don't think that's a reflection on me. I just think that that's. I'm very fucking lucky. You could choose any Broadway podcast. You probably listen to others as well, but this one, you know, I'm so glad you take the time because our episodes are long.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Accidentally too.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, I know, but we're moving things right along. And as I said, you know, it's so hard to tell when you do something if anyone cares, because, like, we're not on Broadway. We don't get the applause every night. You know, every time I go to these awards ceremonies, people talk for 9,000 minutes and I'm like, God damn it, you're not the moment. But then I also kind of get it because you're like, I don't know, we all just want to know that, like, we're doing something that people are receiving.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right?

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. So that's all I'LL say I'm not gonna make like a certain Tony nominee this year and go on for 20 years and fight with the pianist trying to play me off. We're gonna end it there. Jonathan, this has been a pleasure.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh my God, such a pleasure. Must do it again. Maybe even without a podcast between us.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, absolutely. That's happening. You better believe. Where can people find you if you want them to?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, you can always find me on Instagram at inappropriatepatty. You can also find it on TikTok, but it's the same shit and I barely put any of the effort into TikTok. You have a not young and you.

[Matt Koplik]

Have a concert coming up.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, that's right. I probably should start promoting that. Thank you. Yes, I am doing a show at my very first solo show called second rate somebody at 54 below on August 13th at 9:30. My ticket link will be in my bio. I'm waiting for them to give me the information on the streaming so that I can put it all up at once.

[Matt Koplik]

Hallelu. I am so gonna be there.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Please come.

[Matt Koplik]

You didn't have a choice. Baby, I'm so glad you thought you had a decision to that.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Listen, I'm not forcing anyone. My parents wanted to come and I was like, do you.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean you have, you have facial hair. You can force me all you want if you want to follow me. I'm on Instagram only. Mattcoplek. Usual spelling. If you like the podcast, give us a nice five star rating. It always helps with the algorithm. Write a review. I can't stress this enough. You guys have been fucking killing it and like I don't want to put pressure on anybody who wants to write a review and like, oh, I can't follow that. Just like right from the heart. I swear you guys are. You guys are showing your. Your intellect and it's amazing. I love to see it.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Also, the algorithm doesn't read the review. They just care that it happened.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly. This is true. You could just say Matt Koplik, what you doing today? Who is your middle school crush? Or to say Matt Koplik is daddy.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yeah. Or Matt Kuplik, my dad.

[Matt Koplik]

I did and I. And I broke up your parents marriage. It's okay. It was all a ruse anyway. Yeah. So also, and if you want, you can help support the Patreon, which I'm finally picking back up and contributing to. We are going back to ranking every movie adapted from a stage musical ever. This week comes out with Cabaret. Next week will be hello dolly with Ms. Streisand. And then who knows what comes after that.

[Jonathan Hoover]

But that's such controversial opinions about both of those movies.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, listen to the Cabaret episode and you'll hear some controversial opinions we have as well. We think it's good. We don't think it's as good as some of the historians would have you believe, but there's a. But not in a way that you would suspect either. So subscribe to the Patreon and find out many tiers so you can do whatever you want. Jonathan, we close out with a diva every week. What diva should we close out with this week?

[Jonathan Hoover]

Oh, goodness. Who is our diva this week? I feel like we should throw it up for Vicki Clark, who is probably going to be taking home a well deserved award.

[Matt Koplik]

Absolutely. I think we might have closed out with her once already. Jonathan, I truly can't remember anyone anymore. It's. And I think I recorded it three weeks ago. It's just that today's been a day and I will bend over for Vicky and there's no audio of Jessica Chastain or Jodie Comer singing as far as I know.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Right? Yeah. And I would say. I would say Bonnie would be my, my next diva to close.

[Matt Koplik]

I think we've done Bonnie too. I think, I think we've. We've done. First of all, we've done pretty much.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Every person that's nominated.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly. Other than like Lorna, Courtney and I. And she sounds great on Angelia, but I want to wait for her second. Second show so I can then post and Juliet when we talk about her second show. But yeah, you know what? Fuck it, let's just do Vicki and we'll close out with. I might have done it already, I can't recall, but her solo in the opening of Titanic.

[Jonathan Hoover]

Yes, yes.

[Matt Koplik]

She must be somebody. She must be somebody. We're gonna close out with that. Thank you so much for listening, everybody. Check us back next week when we do our final Tony's episode, which is gonna be a reaction to the Whatever happens. To the Whatever happens happens. And I look forward to seeing how much I was wrong and y' all were right. And that's it. Take us away, Vicki. Bye. No one really knows who she is, but the newspaper says she booked the most expensive suite on the ship and travels with 14 steamer trunks, a medicine chest, her personal pillows and sheets, and four little piggy dogs. So she must be somebody. She must be somebody. J.