B (1:44)

Well, we'll see how that goes today then, because we are recording this in early January. There are so many shows that haven't begun performances yet, so many shows that haven't finished announcing their casting, and then a lot of shows that have opened haven't gotten official eligibility rulings yet.

A (2:00)

Right.

B (2:01)

So we are kind of flying free and blind here, and we're just gonna do our best to make informed decisions. And a couple of spaghetti at the wall throws.

A (2:11)

Yeah, it's very much about. I feel like, where the current conversation is about shows. Right. Because I think at this point last year, you were also saying, like, the Notebook is front runner. Everyone's like, it's the one that's gonna win best musical.

B (2:23)

Not when we. I don't think when we recorded. I think that was. But I do think that was my first.

A (2:28)

Right.

B (2:28)

When I did it with Dylan McDowell, that. That a year ago, I was like, the Notebook is the front runner. Because out of town.

A (2:34)

Yes.

B (2:35)

The reviews were insane. And no one. I remember with Dylan, we both were like, I don't know if the Outsiders is going to be anything. And we both were like, lempicka could be something special.

A (2:41)

Right.

B (2:42)

And then.

A (2:42)

Oh, ho, ho.

B (2:43)

How the tables turned.

A (2:46)

Yes.

B (2:46)

How the turned have tabled.

A (2:47)

I mean, it literally goes to show that a lot can change. A lot can change. Well, what I think is interesting about the season thus far. I mean, sorry to derail this already.

B (2:56)

Go for it.

A (2:57)

Is I found that the new musicals have been very good. I think last season, you know, there was tons of new musicals, and everyone was like, broadway is back from the pandemic. We're so excited. And for the most part, all of those new musicals were. Or most of them were fine, but no one was like, slam dunk. This is a great new musical. I think maybe you tell me if you disagree. But I found for the most part, we're seeing a lot of really interesting work this season. Either that's already opened or is still to come.

B (3:27)

Yeah, I wouldn't say that's not true.

A (3:29)

I don't know.

B (3:30)

We have. Tammy Faye is probably. Tammy Faye is probably the only real dud for me of the new musicals this season. But even Tammy Faye, it's more that I was bored during Tammy Faye. It wasn't like a Lempicka Diana, like, what the fuck kind of show. Maybe every 45 minutes, they had a moment that made me feel like that. I will say I. I've talked about it already on the pod. I was underwhelmed by Swept Away. But there's a lot about Swept Away that I think is admirable in terms of the design, in terms of the performances, deconstruction of the production itself. It's truly the script I have issues with, but with maybe happy ending already. And then Death Becomes her, which is a very enjoyable, big, splashy musical. We already have two shows that are, you know, vying for a best musical nomination. Dead Outlaw being announced is really exciting for me. And then there are a couple of shows transferring from London, transferring from off Broadway, that I just. I do think this is going to be a more interesting lineup than last year, for sure. Yeah, I agree with you on that. I mean, I think there's gonna be a lot of interesting stuff in general. There's so much that's not really locked in in terms of a winner. We have our front runners, and even those are kind of like getting mixed up a little bit, which is exciting. Whether I agree with any of the front runner status or not has nothing to do with it. But that's sort of what I love about predictions, is you have to. You do sometimes have to go with your gut. When in doubt, I'm like, did I enjoy this? No. So therefore, like, maybe other people felt the same.

A (4:56)

Right.

B (4:57)

But you're ultimately, especially when it comes to nominations, you are trying to predict how, like, 40 to 50 people each felt about all of these things and take into account reviews. Not because that's a clear indicator of how people are gonna vote, but it can give you a sense of what the vibe is around a show. Something like O Mary, which on the surface would seem not a frontrunner for best play or best actor in a play. But the reviews for oh Mary were such that it sort of allows Tony nominators to be like, oh, we can give this a whole bunch of nominations and not feel basic about it.

A (5:31)

Right, right. It's really about where the pulse of things is in the conversation, but 1,000%.

B (5:36)

But also you sometimes. This is where you and I both are going to kind of put a little minor flex, like a little gay flex of, you and I are in the community.

A (5:46)

Yeah. You know.

B (5:47)

You know, you know, we know people.

A (5:49)

Or the community's inside of you, but either way, who's to say, I won't fucking punch you.

B (5:56)

But we. No, we are. I think both of us have a footprint, have our foot in the door of the community. We know a lot of people who vote who nominate, and we get a good sense of sort of what the vibe is of on the street with the theater community in terms of shows.

A (6:13)

Yeah.

B (6:14)

Because I talked about this, I think. Yeah. When James and I did the Tony recap episode and Hell's Kitchen did not do well with its wins, you know, coming out with the 13 nominations, definitely had a front runner status to it. But I had said leading up to the Tony ceremony, I didn't speak to a single person who was a voter or who, like, was an agent or producer who actually enjoyed Hell's Kitchen. They enjoyed the talent on stage, they enjoyed the music, but they did not enjoy the show. And it gave me this inclination, like, that everyone was looking for what is our best option to vote against Hell's Kitchen. Which ended up being the Outsiders. It's the Outsiders. A phenomenal musical. No, but it was sort of like the best, best case scenario to go against that one. You know what I mean?

A (7:01)

Sure, yeah, I hear you, I hear you.

B (7:02)

And so that's something we're going to talk about as you go through a lot of these contenders for these categories of like, there is reviews, there is online fodder, there's social media fodder, but like, what is it that people are actually saying without, you know, throwing anyone under the bus or what?

A (7:14)

Yeah, or anything like that.

B (7:16)

Yeah, but I said this on the Gypsy. Either the rev, the re review or the first review when we did the Slave Play episode with Marcus Scott. Slave Play famously went into that Tony night being like, we're gonna go on that stage and win best play and we're gonna announce that we're coming back to Broadway from the stage of Winter of the Winter Garden Theater. And then they ended up goose egging that night. Not a single win at all. And the truth was that people would go online and be like, oh my God, slave play in the bag. We love it. So important. And then like in private would be like, I actually did not like that play and I don't think you should vote for it.

A (7:52)

Interesting.

B (7:53)

Yeah, there were a lot of, I, I, I refuse to say their names because they did not ask to be put on mic, but I know a few actresses and writers who are women of color who very much hated that play and made it a point to tell voters how much they hated that play. So like a lot of non bipoc voters were like, oh, I don't have to. You feel obligated to do this if you're telling me you hated it. Fantastic. And that's what led to the inheritance, which is not a great play, but maybe a little less troublesome for people than Slave Play.

A (8:25)

Yeah, that was before. I mean, hard to think about this, but that was before my time. The Slave play nomination.

B (8:31)

Well, you're famously very young.

A (8:32)

Yes, yes, Famously, famously fresh out of college. You know, fresh is, I'm not fresh anymore. I used to be fresh. Now I'm just, you know, whatever it is slightly broadened.

B (8:43)

But, you know, I guess you've been on the producing end now for two, three years.

A (8:46)

We're about to hit three years. Yeah.

B (8:48)

Fantastic.

A (8:49)

So that was for my time. But no, it's interesting. Right. I do think there's a lot of this that is, yes, like speculation in terms of what is just genuinely good or will be good. And Also, a lot of this is like, where's the buzz? Like, where are people really kind of keeping their eye towards? Right. And so I'm sure we'll go through a lot of that once we dive in.

B (9:05)

Absolutely. And believe it or not, we will be talking about some historical nominations and wins to, like, use as reference points for these preemptions. But yeah, let's just dive in. Let's do a biggie, but not too much of a biggie.

A (9:19)

I feel like one of the. Maybe like one of the acting ones then.

B (9:21)

Yeah, let's do it. How about. You know what? Okay, let's do leaning actress in a musical.

A (9:25)

Oh. Oh, that's the. That is a biggie.

B (9:27)

It's a really biggie. But it's not the ultimate biggie, I would say. Okay, so let me. So, okay, so I have intel currently with leading actress in a musical that the producers of maybe Happy Ending and the producers of Death Becomes her are petitioning Helen J. Shen and Jennifer Simard for featured.

A (9:46)

Interesting. Okay.

B (9:48)

The Tonys have not determined yet if they are featured or lead. I personally think that both of those women are leading roles. I can see a world where Simard successfully gets put into featured. I find it a little harder to believe that Helen J. Shen will be determined for featured. But for today's episode, in this early to mid January that we record, I'm gonna go with let's pretend that the producers were successful and Jennifer Simard and Helen J. Shen were put into featured as we go in our predictions. So with that in mind, our contenders so far are Katy Brabin for Tammy Faye Sutton Foster for Once Upon a Mattress. Megan Hilty, Death Becomes Her. Robin herter, smash. Audra McDonald, gypsy. Idina Menzel Redwood Jasmine. Amy Rogers, Boop. Nicole Scherzinger, Sunset Boulevard. Adrienne Warren. The last five years, we have a couple of not quite sures yet. There's Natalie Venetia Belcon for Buena Vista Social Club, who is definitely the main female character of the show. I asked a friend who's a producer on that and he said that it's very much an ensemble piece, but that her story is the center of it. And I was unsure because she was nominated for both leading and featured in two separate awards bodies last year.

A (11:03)

Interesting.

B (11:04)

So, yeah, we'll see about that. Lucy Godinez, I think is how you say her last name. She was the lead of Real Women have Curves at Art. They have not announced if the cast is transferring or not.

A (11:15)

So that role, but probably her.

B (11:16)

Yes. Natasha Hudson from Operation Mincemeat was nominated for leading actress in a musical at the Oliviers. I'm not sure if the Tonys will agree with that, but they might. And then the last one that's in if is Samantha Williams in Pirates. She is playing Mabel. Mabel in the past has been considered a lead role. Pirates is a big question mark for me in general at Roundabout, the Pirates of Pen Dance musical. But we'll talk more about that later. So with all that in mind, do you have a five that you are.

A (11:48)

Well, I can tell you the top two.

B (11:50)

Oh, do tell.

A (11:52)

I don't know if you would agree with this. That's kind of sarcastic because I feel like these two are kind of the big conversation right now, which is Nicole for Sunset and then Audra for Gypsy. I think that's kind of the head to head battle. And it's kind of been since the beginning of the season, people have been like, it's going to be between them too. And obviously there's drama with that whole thing. So I think those two, at least for nominations, like, we don't have to talk about who would theoretically win, but those two, I think are pretty locked in. Right. I think something would have to really happen for that not to happen.

B (12:22)

Yeah, no, we're not talking wins today. We're already being super bold by saying who's nominated. But yeah, those are absolutely locks. Nicole was locked the moment they announced Sunset was transferring.

A (12:31)

Right.

B (12:31)

Audra was pretty much locked when they announced it. One of my favorite social media moments was when they announced the Audra Gypsy. Someone posted the Regina George Freak out and Mean Girls and it was like Nicole Scherzinger at the news and it's.

A (12:44)

Her going like, Right, right.

B (12:46)

But no. And they are absolute locks for nominations. I would. So. So you have those two at your top. And then who would you have rounding.

A (12:53)

Out the five, I should note. So did you see Buena Vista Social Club? I probably. And okay. And I didn't see real women have curves at the art. But you also. You saw Mincemeat at. In London.

B (13:03)

Not with the majority of the original cast, but I did see the show in London.

A (13:06)

Okay. So you know, you know, and we'll talk about this with musical. But so some of these I'm kind of a blank on where I'm like, if Mincemeat gets great reviews, sure, I can see her getting in. But I think Megan Hilty. So I had Audra Nicole. I'm gonna throw in Megan Hilty as well. I've heard great things about Jasmine Amy Rogers in Boop. I've heard that it's like a star making role and that she's incredible in it. So I'd also throw her in there and then I have that fifth slot that I think is a question mark. I think you know, Redwood no clue what that is. So Adina could slay in that. So. And she's Idina Menzel so that could be there. I think Once Upon a Mattress is going to be an interesting one to look at and again we'll talk about this with revival but how that fares will be super fascinating. So I could see Sutton maybe getting in there as well and then you know, I don't know mincemeat that well she'd get in. Jennifer Samar could get in. But yeah, that fifth slot's open for me.

B (14:05)

Yeah. So I'd also have Nicole, Audra, Megan and Jasmine. Jasmine, as you said, all the reviews from Chicago were like the show could use some cutting, it could use some refocusing. But like one thing is for sure is that this girl is a fucking star. And I'm very excited that to happen. The Tonys really love to acknowledge Ingenue. This is all like this is the category that most awards the new thing on the scene. So I know we're not talking about winners but like that alone I feel like secures her a nomination.

A (14:36)

Right.

B (14:37)

Because it's always really exciting to be like oh this, this. I mean this up and comer that we are going to give a blue chip that she's going to cash in and have a great career on.

A (14:45)

Right.

B (14:47)

And yeah, Megan, I'm putting in there if Jennifer is also put into featured beat because if Jennifer is kept in lead it's really tricky because it's hard to nominate one without the other in that show. I've been very vocal that Jennifer is the performance I prefer in death becomes her. But that's more a testament to how good I think Jennifer is in the show because I think M3gan is also really good. It's just that Jennifer is just so fucking locked in on that.

A (15:08)

Right.

B (15:09)

My fifth spot. I'm going to be a little ballsy here because in a lot of ways you don't bet against Idina Menzel. She's only done three. She's only opened three Broadway shows but she's been nominated every single time. This is her fourth. I'm still not convinced that Redwood is real. I'm convinced we're all going to show up to the Nederlander Theater and Adina's going to be like why did you show up here?

A (15:34)

So it's not real, literally. Well, I didn't realize it's a different show than the one that she did at the art. Because she did a show recently at the art directed by Diane Paulus, right?

B (15:43)

No, this is Tina Landau. They did this. Didn't they do this at.

A (15:47)

They did La Jolla.

B (15:47)

La Jolla.

A (15:48)

Yeah. But I literally realized that last week that that's a different show. And I was like, oh, okay. So, yeah, redwood. I mean, redwood again to what we were saying earlier. Giant question mark. It could come in and be the best musical we've ever seen. It could be the worst musical we've ever seen.

B (16:00)

I don't know. I'm gonna. So I'm gonna go a little bit with my gut of what I know, and I'm gonna say Adrienne Warren for the last five years now. I'm still not entirely convinced that Adrian is a super great fit for Kathy in the last five years. Just because Kathy is such a vulnerable and like, what's I'm looking for. Not narcissistic, but, like, she's an actress. She's a wannabe actress and therefore, like, she has the thinnest of skins. And I've always associated Adrian on stage with, like, absolute toughness and strength. So I'll be very fascinated to see how she does with the, like, weak flower that is Kathy. Because that whole revival to me is a giant question mark because even though the Hudson is only a 900 seat theater, it still feels quite large. That is such an intimate show. Nick Jonas, I'm sure is going to sell them a lot of tickets, but, like, a lot of people are still iffy about his casting in that show. And then I think it's Whitney White is directing, who did Ja Jaw's African hair braiding, which I loved. But I never. I don't know if Whitney can do a musical. Not every play director can. But I'm still gonna go with Adrienne Warren just because she is so talented. It is objectively a good, great role. And if she can do it, well, that might be fun. My alt. We also have on our sheets here a possible sixth in case that there is a close enough tie, because that happens sometimes. It happened last year. We had like six or seven featured actresses, actors. So I'm gonna put Sutton as my possible sixth right now. Because Once Upon a Mattress was ultimately well received. She particularly was well received in was not the runaway smash outside of Encores that they wanted it to be. I know for a fact it did not recoup and they are doing a cast recording which will help them be remembered come April. But this is my anxiety. The reason the cast recording is happening is because Amy Sherman Palladino is personally funding it. There's no label that was willing to foot the bill for it.

A (17:56)

Interesting.

B (17:56)

Yeah. Which. That's not me being like, fuck, Once Upon a Mattress. But that.

A (18:00)

There's no comment here.

B (18:02)

Yeah, it's a. That's.

A (18:03)

That's.

B (18:03)

You have it here in ink, guys.

A (18:04)

Yeah, that's. Matt Koeplik said that David J. Lynch said no comment.

B (18:07)

No.

A (18:08)

So, no.

B (18:09)

But it gives you an idea of sort of what a lot of people felt about their revival and the. If there was any excitement about it and a lot of people just weren't terribly excited about it.

A (18:17)

Yeah. And that's what we'll get to with musical revival as well. I think Once Upon a Mattress is sort of a. It's sort of like the default option. I think Sutton here is like, if there are five or six standout performances where we can't pick, I think Sutton probably won't get in. But if we're looking at like four and then a potential fifth, I could see people being like, yeah, you know, give it to Sutton. But I think out of all the roles she's ever done, this isn't the most, you know, awards y of them all.

B (18:42)

1,000%.

A (18:43)

Also, one that we didn't mention is Robin Herder. And Smash. And Smash is another big question mark. I don't know if you saw the.

B (18:48)

I did not see whatever it was.

A (18:49)

The workshop of it. So, I mean, I'm sure you know about the word of mouth from it, but I'm curious to see how Robin Herder does same.

B (18:56)

I'm interested to see what work has been done on it since the workshop. I. It was also unclear from the workshop exactly what the focus of the show was in terms of characters. But again, I reached out to two people I know involved in that production. I was like, how do you categorize, like, Tony eligibility? And they both were like, oh, Robin is the lead. Everyone else is featured. So, yeah, it's absolutely Robin. If. If anyone is put into lead, it is Robin. We'll see what happens. I mean, that's just looking at the song list alone. Like, if she can make it through those performances with her, you know, life intact.

A (19:31)

Sure. And she can.

B (19:32)

Yeah. And she's. She's a genuine triple threat.

A (19:35)

Yeah.

B (19:35)

I think she's definitely. I think Robin and Lucy Godinez from Real Women and Then Idina are sort of. And Adrian are like. Those are the floating question marks. Yeah.

A (19:49)

But I think those other four are pretty solid. Yeah. At least right now.

B (19:53)

Absolutely. Yeah. We'll see what happens in about a month or so when there's a new eligibility ruling. But I. Yeah, I would definitely say Nicole Audra. Honestly, I would be more. I'm more confident in Jasmine's nomination over Megan right now. Just because. Well, just because of. If Jennifer ends up being put into lead. How does that work with Doom? If Helen gets put into lead for maybe happy ending, how does that work things out? Because, like, I would probably put Helen in maybe over Megan, and then also, like, definitely above all the other question marks. Yeah, but again, those question marks are question marks.

A (20:22)

Yeah. Well, that's why they're smart to put. Try to campaign her and featured. Because the exact same thing will happen where, you know. Yeah.

B (20:27)

But as. Yeah, once when we get to featured, we'll talk about that. Because again, this is an episode where the timeline we're going down is Helen and Jennifer are successfully put into featured.

A (20:35)

Yes.

B (20:35)

Which changes everything.

A (20:36)

So there you go. Yeah. Okay, so one down.

B (20:39)

One down. What's the next category you pick?

A (20:41)

Let's do leading actress in a play. Or does she want to keep the musicals together? Do leading actress.

B (20:45)

Yeah, let's go back and forth. Let's go back and forth.

A (20:46)

Okay. Leading actress in a play. Do you want to read?

B (20:48)

Yes. Our contenders so far are Laura Donnelly for Hills of California, Mia Farrow for the Roommate, Sidney Lemon for job, Patti LuPone for the roommate, Juliana Margulies for left on 10th. Sadie Sink for John Proctor is the villain. That's me kind of guessing because she's above the title. I would imagine it may be more of an ensemble piece, but that's what we're saying for now. Sarah Snook for the Picture of Dorian Gray, and Rachel Zegler for Romeo and Juliet. There are some unclear ones. Tala Ash for English where she was nominated, I think, for the Lortel for leading actress when this was off Broadway and won the Pulitzer. Jessica Hecht for Eureka Day, Rebecca Henderson and Mare Wingham for Cult of Love, Latonya Richardson Jackson and Kara Young for Purpose, and then Molly Osborne for Othello. Molly Osbourne is playing Desdemona in Othello.

A (21:33)

Okay, interesting.

B (21:34)

And that is a role where it could very much be a major featured performance, but depending on how you direct the production, Desdemona can feel like the female lead of the show. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna guess she's gonna be putting the feature in at the end of the day.

A (21:49)

Yeah. And that's another question mark, is Othello. I think we don't really know much about it other than it's very expensive to buy tickets. It sure is, baby.

B (21:55)

You better believe. When they announced Othello, I texted my Tony voter friend and because he was like, what do you want to see this season? I was like, oh, I've been getting a lot of press. Tickets, whatever. They announced Othello, I was like, I'm. I'm down for Othello.

A (22:07)

Like, this is what I'm doing. It's me.

B (22:08)

It's me.

A (22:09)

Great call.

B (22:10)

Yeah, good call.

A (22:10)

Thank you so much. Again, a lot of question marks here, but I would, and I know you would as well, Laura Donnelly, I think will get NOM with a bullet.

B (22:20)

Yeah.

A (22:21)

I think we've got Sarah Snook, obviously. And I mean, it's a one woman show and she won the Olivier.

B (22:27)

She sure did. It's giving Jodie Comer Prima Faci vibes.

A (22:31)

Yes. And I think there's gonna be a lot of hype for that coming in. So there's that Sadie Sink I'm also gonna put in there. I think it is a very. I think there's gonna be a lot of buzz for that play coming in. And then the rest I have kind of as a question mark.

B (22:47)

Yeah. I have Sarah Snook and Laura Donnelly as absolute locks. I'm choosing to believe that Jessica Hecht is going to be considered lead for Eureka Day. It is ultimately an ensemble piece, but she is the focal point of that show. Watch me say this now. And then, like two weeks from now, they're gonna be like, Jessica Hecht is put in featured.

A (23:06)

Yeah, I would totally put her in featured.

B (23:08)

A lot of people would. I genuinely felt like she was the lead of it, but I think it.

A (23:12)

Was smart for them to do that. And then hopefully that Amber gets in then for. Right.

B (23:17)

Well. So, yeah, if they can get Jessica in lead, then she and Amber are clear to get nominations, in my humble opinion.

A (23:24)

Yeah.

B (23:25)

I also think right now, just because, again, so many question marks just again, going off my gut, I'm saying Sarah Snooklore, Donnelly, Jessica Hecht, Sidney Lemon for Job, and then Mia Farrow for the Roommate. I was very underwhelmed by the Roommate, but the one thing that everyone agreed on was that Mia Farrow was a delightful surprise in it and all the press has been about her for that show and not so much Patty.

A (23:51)

Yeah. And it'll Be interesting to see how hard they campaign in Tony's season. Right? Yeah. Because they could very clearly just say, all right, we did the show and we're done. And I think in that case, it could just not get any nominations.

B (24:02)

It's definitely possible. I also.

A (24:05)

We don't know anything about purpose. Literally nothing. I know so. Nothing. So I put Carrie Young because. Love her. Yeah.

B (24:11)

If Carrie Young is considered lead, she's getting nominated. She's considered featured. She's getting nominated. Carrie Young just gets nominated.

A (24:18)

And she should.

B (24:19)

She can't help but get nominated.

A (24:20)

So great. Yeah. And so I'm like, all right. I saw her name on here, and I just underlined it, and I was like, yeah, sure, throw her in there. I don't think I would be really surprised at the Mare Whittingham was leading Cult of Love.

B (24:32)

The thing is, there is no lead in Cult of Love. I was just like, if the Tony Awards really wanted to just fuck me in the ear and be like, we want you to get so upset. Those are the two characters that would most be considered lead, I would guess.

A (24:46)

Right.

B (24:47)

Rebecca Henderson probably is the most. Is the closest thing to a female lead in that show, but it is a genuine ensemble piece. Also, my thing about Sadie Sink is I am waiting for John Proctor as the villain at such an arm's length. Because on Instagram around New Year's, I didn't ask me anything. And somebody asked, you know, what's a show coming in this season that you hope changes your mind? And the thing I said was the Just In Time Bobby Darin musical. Because most bio musicals are basic or bad, but after that one is John Proctor is the villain. Because on paper. And it sounds like my nightmare.

A (25:23)

Interesting.

B (25:24)

It is a. It's a play about a room full of gen zers talking about how the Crucible is actually problematic. And I'm like, I'm sorry, but that sounds like a nightmare.

A (25:32)

Sure.

B (25:33)

So I'm hoping. It actually takes me by surprise. I am a big fan of Donnya Taymor after Jonah and Outsiders. I think she's a great director. Sadie is a. Is a wonderful actress. We'll see.

A (25:43)

We'll see. Yeah.

B (25:44)

But I'm.

A (25:45)

There's no one in Stranger Things that's leading.

B (25:48)

Not that I imagine. Also Stranger Things. Just from what I understand, it's really more about the spectacle than the script or the acting.

A (25:55)

Sure.

B (25:55)

So unless some of the American cast really kind of pulls through.

A (25:58)

Yeah.

B (26:00)

Lauren Ward played. I think played the Winona Ryder part.

A (26:04)

I never saw the Netflix show So I'm.

B (26:06)

Well, you're hateful. I only watched the first two and a half seasons, but I believe it's like a continuation or. I don't know, something like that.

A (26:14)

But.

B (26:15)

But Lauren Ward was. I understand the Winona Ryder part, and the few people I know who saw it in London said that, like, that is the most acty part.

A (26:24)

Got it.

B (26:24)

But we'll see.

A (26:25)

Got it. Yeah. All right.

B (26:26)

Well, there you go.

A (26:27)

There are all of our answers.

B (26:28)

Those are all of our answers. Yeah. Okay, let's take a quick break, and then we'll come back with some more meaty categories. Break time. Billy, I beg to differ with you. How do you mean? You're the top. Yeah.

A (26:39)

You're an arrow caller.

B (26:41)

You're the top.

A (26:43)

You're a Coolidge dollar.

B (26:45)

You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire. And we're back. So we did two meaty ones. Leading actress in a musical. Leading actress in a play. Let's knock out, like, three design categories, shall we?

A (27:00)

Sure.

B (27:00)

Let's do. Let's actually. Let's do all four. Let's do set, costume, lighting, sound design of plays.

A (27:06)

All right. These. These I'm are gonna be such TBD's. But truly, you said. So we're doing. You want to do all the play.

B (27:12)

Let's do the play ones first.

A (27:13)

Design ones. Okay.

B (27:14)

Scenic design of a play, costume design of a play, lightning design of a play, and sound design of the play. I'll go first. So the. I've put for my five picks for set design of a play, Hills of California, which I'm feeling very confident about with those staircases.

A (27:28)

Yes.

B (27:28)

Stranger Things, which is, from what I understand, a very big spectacle. McNeil, the picture of Dorian Gray, which I think is a lot of TV projections and whatnot. And then my last one, I'm saying Eureka Day, which I could not be more iffy on. It's just that with the Zoom Town hall that they do, I'm like, that's a very well done projection situation. I have a. I has a possible either good night and good luck or Othello Again. Who the fuck knows what those designs are going to be?

A (27:57)

Yeah. I mean, to your point, quickly, about Eureka Day, I. You said. He said in your podcast. I think you sat in, like, what, the second or third row or. You were very close.

B (28:04)

I was pretty close. Yeah.

A (28:05)

So I saw the details. Yeah, I looked at the details, too. It is so funny. Like, again, if you see that show going up either before or after, looking at that Set. There's some of the funniest little details there. I don't think it'll get in because it's a stationary set. Right. And it's not anything overwhelmingly exceptional or whatever. Not overwhelmingly spectacle. It's very good.

B (28:27)

But yeah, I think if Manhattan Theater Club, if anyone there is listening to this episode right now, take some pictures of that set, like some close up pictures of all the details, put it in a packet to send to Nominator.

A (28:39)

So they have.

B (28:40)

Right, they have the details there to look at. Because yeah, it is not just the zoom call, but yeah, all the books and the like categories. Because it takes place in the library of this.

A (28:48)

Yeah.

B (28:49)

But yeah, it's so fucking intricate and so funny.

A (28:52)

Yeah, there's a lot of set designers. This is maybe a tangent, but a lot of set designers always, a lot of them put jokes in their sets, like inside jokes. Right. So Beowulf, Borat, who did the sets for potus, all of the portraits of the presidents that were in that show were all presidents who had been accused of cheating on their wives, things like that. And there's always like really fun little tidbits in there. So I'd be so curious they should do an interview or like a public interview with the set designer of that show and like have. Have them walk through the set. But anyways, I think, yeah, I think I agree with you on the hills of California that that set is gorgeous. I think that's good. Stranger things to your point, I think is a very techie show. Same thing with Picture of Dorian Gray from what I've gathered.

B (29:33)

Yeah.

A (29:34)

And I think that leaves a lot of. I think the last two, three slots are then question marks. Right?

B (29:38)

Yeah.

A (29:38)

We know nothing about. Well, actually, you know, I heard has a really cool set, is English. Oh, wow. It has a, like, from what I have heard, a sort of like Lehman trilogy cube, rotating thing. Oh, fun. So that one also could be there. I mean, again, we know nothing about Othello. Othello could be bare bones. Othello could be, you know, up the walls, bonkers.

B (29:55)

But also it could be one of those sets that is simplistic but very elegant. You know, it could be very Bart share where it's like it's one pillar, but that pillar is gorgeous. And that's a set design nomination.

A (30:07)

Yeah, well, Enemy got a set design nomination last season, right?

B (30:10)

Rightfully so. My.

A (30:11)

It was nothing, you know. Oh my gosh, this is a huge spectacle, but it was very detailed and very well done.

B (30:15)

It wasn't lavish, but it was Very specific.

A (30:16)

Yes.

B (30:17)

I was so happy that that show got a set design nomination.

A (30:21)

Cool.

B (30:21)

Yeah. I think some other question marks that, again, we don't know. We don't know about Glengarry Glen Ross, which, again, it's a office show, but it's at the Palace. And how are they going to fill up that stage? One wonders. And we don't know anything about Good night and good luck. We don't know, as we know nothing about Othello. I don't know what the set's going to be for purpose.

A (30:41)

I have.

B (30:41)

I feel like purpose is going to be a simple, a similar realistic set like Eureka Day or Cult of Love.

A (30:47)

So that's in the haze.

B (30:49)

It's in the haze, yeah.

A (30:50)

So it can't be anything too crazy.

B (30:52)

No, but it could be something like the humans, where it's. Yes. It's an apartment. But it's a very theatrical set because I think that. More appropriate. Yeah, More appropriate. Yeah. Because sometimes a simple set will still get nominated. Like Enemy the People or like the once set, which did actually win best set design.

A (31:07)

Yeah. Which I think it should. I mean, anyways. Yes.

B (31:10)

So, okay, so you said Hills of California, Stranger Things, Picture of Dorian Gray, and the rest.

A (31:14)

Question marks. Okay.

B (31:14)

Give me. Give me two spaghetti thrown at the.

A (31:16)

Walls based off of how expensive they are. We're gonna do Good Night and Good Luck.

B (31:22)

Okay.

A (31:23)

And then I'm gonna throw in. I'm gonna throw in English.

B (31:27)

Cool.

A (31:27)

Again, haven't seen it yet. From the photos I've seen, it looks really, really cool.

B (31:30)

I had no idea that it had a really cool set. So I look forward to seeing English and talking about it and maybe changing my predictions down the road.

A (31:37)

Great.

B (31:38)

Then we have costume design of a play I am putting in. Oh, Mary, Picture of Dorian Gray. This is a hard one because a lot of these plays are modern plays, but I'm saying, oh, Mary, Picture of Dorian Gray, the Hills of California, Othello and Stranger Things. Stranger Things feels like a weird one, but it is the 80s, so you have that going for it. We could have an appropriate situation where a more modern piece does get a costume design nomination. And if that's the case, then I'm gonna go on a limb and say Cult of Love.

A (32:09)

Yeah, I mean, Cult of Love and Eureka Day. I mean, this is always a thing with fall plays, like how well they're remembered, how much people are fond of them. I think will be really interesting. But I agree with you on Omari. I think Omari will probably win it. Probably. I mean, I mean, I say that now, but stranger things in Picture of Dorian Gray. Right. Big techie shows. I agree with you on those three. Again, know nothing about Othello and what their vision is for that. Same thing for good night and good luck. You know, don't really know what's going on there. Purpose. We don't know. So, again, you know, looking at the. It's too early to call, as they say. Not to bring up election nights, but yeah, it's too.

B (32:43)

It's too early to call. But that's sort of the fun is sometimes we're, like, going with our gut and our instincts and just saying, here are two random ones that will probably really regret a month from now.

A (32:53)

And I wish that a lot of. A lot of these design categories people had the same viewpoint that I think you iterate a lot, which is that it doesn't need to be big. Is it effective to the show? Right. Because sometimes the subtle costumes, like in Cult of Love, for example, it's very subtle. There's no big costume, but it works really well for those characters. And I think that does require a really keen eye from a costume designer, but it's something that's just not normally rewarded. Right. Same thing for choreography that matter.

B (33:20)

I mean, listen, Lord knows I've been very vocal about my dislike of Hell's Kitchen, but I was impressed that they got a costume nomination out of it for. I mean, it is the 90s. It's not, technically speaking, present day, but it is a more contemporary piece than, say, I'm trying to think of, like, some Like it hot or. Or 1776. Right. Like, usually those categories go for more period shows where the costumes are more obvious. Same thing with appropriate. So I was really impressed by that. Like I had said in the past, I really wish that Kimberly Akimbo got a costume design nomination because I think that the costumes in that show, while not, you know, bustles and. And petticoats, were very effective and very on point with the characters and the tone of the piece.

A (34:01)

Yeah.

B (34:01)

So, yeah, I mean, I would love to see Cult of Love get in there for what I think is a really detailed and nuanced costume design. But, yeah, it's probably gonna be Omari Hills of California again, period and. But also very well done period stuff.

A (34:16)

Yes.

B (34:16)

And then picture Dorian Gray. I mean, from what I understand, the aesthetic of that show is very important to the effectiveness of that show, and which makes sense because the whole point of Dorian Gray is the shallowness of being desirable and young and stylish. So it all makes sense.

A (34:32)

Right?

B (34:32)

Yeah. In Stranger Things, if Othello is sort of a random, not dud, but like sort of bleh. Maybe Cult of Love. We'll see. We'll see. But yeah, those are my or.

A (34:43)

Good night and good Luck.

B (34:44)

Yeah, Good night Good Luck is another one. Yeah.

A (34:45)

Have you seen that movie? I've never seen the movie, so I don't know.

B (34:47)

I haven't seen the movie. But I mean, you know the premise. Right. Like it's all in a radio station, so.

A (34:52)

No, I didn't even know that. Yeah. So there you go.

B (34:55)

Yeah. It's like the 1940s or 50s. So that could also work because of period stuff.

A (35:00)

Yeah.

B (35:00)

Lighting design of a play. I put in for my five picks again. Hills of California.

A (35:07)

Yeah.

B (35:08)

Stranger Things, Picture of Dorian Gray. I'm gonna go on a limb here and say Job.

A (35:15)

Oh. Yep.

B (35:16)

I'm also gonna go on a limb right now. Just again, from what I've seen and what was effective to me, Romeo Juliet. I think there are a couple of pieces that could totally get in there. Again, we don't know anything about Othello yet. We don't really know much about Good Night and Good Luck. But that could be very much a noiri vibe, which could have very shadowy atmospheric lighting. Othello, you know, Shakespeare tragedy. The light. It could be a simple set where the lighting makes all the difference in the world. Who knows? There also could be worlds where our town gets in there for lighting. With all those damn lanterns.

A (35:55)

A lot of lanterns.

B (35:56)

There were so many lanterns.

A (35:58)

Right. A purpose. Could be a big lighty show. Yeah, I. What about. Did you say McNeil or.

B (36:04)

No, I did not say McNeil. McNeil. I have sort of on the bubble, like McNeil could be sort of the American Psycho where it gets in nowhere but set in lights.

A (36:14)

Yeah, I hear you. And also you didn't say. I mean, Omari has nothing crazy with the lighting design. Yeah. But Omari, I think technically, besides the costumes will be a testament to like how much they love that show. Right. Because they could literally just say, let's give it as many awards as possible. Like. Yeah, yeah, give it the light award.

B (36:29)

That's. Yeah. So put a pin in that because that's a larger conversation I want to have about a couple of other shows. Sure. With this. But remind me because. Oh, Mary is definitely a part of that conversation of the double edged sword of. Is it just the fact that it's such a big titty hit that we throw everything at it to see what it Wins. Because that also. That can. That actually can also go against a show when the Nominating committee is so wild for it. And then the voters are like this, yeah, you want me to give everything to this? I don't think that's gonna happen to Omari necessarily. But, yeah, so, yeah.

A (37:04)

Yeah.

B (37:04)

But, yeah, I think.

A (37:05)

Sure. I agree with. I agree with everything you said. So too early to call.

B (37:08)

Yeah, but, yeah. So to reiterate, Stranger Things. Picture of Dorian, for me was Stranger Things. Picture of Dorian Gray, Hills of California. Those are three I feel very confident about. And then the two that are very easily discarded are Romeo and Juliet and Job. And we already said the ones that we think could get in there over them, but those are where we're at right now this January. Sound design of a play.

A (37:30)

Honestly, same things here. Like, nothing new.

B (37:33)

So I. I did say McNeil. I did say Job. If you saw those plays, you would. You know that sound design is really huge in both of them.

A (37:40)

That's fair. Yeah.

B (37:42)

I'm gonna say Stranger Things again because the. The lavishness of it all. Picture of Dorian Gray as well. And then I'm also gonna say goodnight and good luck.

A (37:51)

Sure.

B (37:51)

Because it taking place in a radio station, I would imagine that sound is very important to the effectiveness of that production. I have sort of on the bubble Eureka day again for just, like, the fucking town hall scene alone with how that whole technology works is really impressive. Trying to think of anything else that would like.

A (38:15)

I was. I mean, if we're throwing just, like, it could be there. Romeo and Juliet. Right. They have the whole DJ set up. They have the singing in it. You know, whether or not you liked it or not is besides the point. Right. Like, it does exist.

B (38:26)

It does exist. And it's something that people who maybe don't understand design could. Could go for. I don't. I can't remember if that's with sound design. I don't remember if it's. The nominating committee nominates and then sound designers vote or sound designers nominated and then the voters vote. I think sound design is something where it gets nominated by the nominating committee, and then only sound designers vote for sound design of play and musical because, like, no one else understands exactly what makes something good in terms of.

A (38:58)

Right, Right.

B (38:59)

Which is why it was so crazy to me that Sweeney won.

A (39:01)

Yeah. And half the voters can't even hear it. They go, they didn't turn it up.

B (39:05)

And yet here we are.

A (39:06)

Yes. Yeah, Sure.

B (39:08)

I agree with all that. That sounds good.

A (39:10)

Cool.

B (39:10)

Okay. So we got those designs out of the way. Let's do another really big one.

A (39:15)

Do you have a pic?

B (39:16)

No, you go, baby.

A (39:18)

Let's. We did leading actress of musical. We did leading actress of play. Should we do the leading actors, or do you want to say stuff on that?

B (39:24)

Let's either do.

A (39:25)

We can do, like, a best play revival.

B (39:27)

Yeah, let's do that.

A (39:28)

Or like, we do directors.

B (39:30)

Let's do. Let's do director. Let's do director of a musical.

A (39:34)

Ooh, Yeah, I know, Biggie. Okay, I have it right here.

B (39:37)

Fast and loose, baby.

A (39:39)

So. Oh, you don't have their names here. So we're gonna, like, do this from memory.

B (39:41)

Oh, I can.

A (39:42)

I can pick that up if you want. Okay, well, you. You start then.

B (39:46)

Okay. So sorry. Let me get my. So he said director of a musical. Let me make sure that I. Sorry. I have all my things so out.

A (39:54)

Of order right now.

B (39:57)

Is this okay? Yeah, this is okay. So director of a musical. I have currently, for my three locks, I have David Cromer for Dead Outlaw, Michael Arden for maybe Happy Ending, and Jamie Lloyd for Sunset Boulevard. I feel very confident that those three are absolutely getting in, which leaves two slots open. I am still not fully convinced that George C. Wolfe is a lock for Gypsy. I think he is currently in the possible range of. If so many other shows end up underwhelming, then he gets in, no problem. But if, like, if Floyd Collins ends up being really fantastic, I think that's an easy nomination for Tina Landau, who is a very visual director, which helps for something like Floyd Collins and should.

A (40:43)

Have a Tony by now.

B (40:44)

Should have a Tony by now. And especially, like, if, let's say, Redwood kind of is mid, and then Floyd Collins ends up being really lovely. It's like, okay, well, we're nominating for Floyd Collins, which is also a show that a lot of people in the community really like and are really stoked to see get a Broadway revival. And it's such a giant swing to do it in the Beaumont, which is ultimately a pretty large theater. So if they pull it off, that's really impressive.

A (41:07)

Yeah.

B (41:09)

I also have a possibility of Buena Vista Social Club, which just from everything that I've understood from it at the Atlantic, was a very not perfect, but quite successful jukebox musical that had a lot of visual flair to it and had a lot of artistry about it.

A (41:27)

Yeah. Because you have to remind me what theater that's going into Buena Vista Social Club.

B (41:31)

That's going into the Schoenfeld, where Notebook just closed.

A (41:33)

Okay. All right. So I Mean, interestingly, no, no. Kimberly Kimbo was in the booth. Because I was saying that the Atlantic stage is small. Right. And so to go from there to a Broadway stage, you have to have a very talented director to. I don't know who's directing it, unfortunately.

B (41:46)

But I'll look this up, keep talking.

A (41:48)

But, you know, you have to have a very good director who can take a show, an original concept that was maybe on a smaller stage, and expand it to a larger stage while still keeping the overall vision intact. Right. And so I hear you again, big unknown, I think, for me. So I have Michael Arden, maybe happy ending. Jamie Lloyd, Sunset Boulevard. I'll take your word for it on Dead Outlaw. Didn't see it off Broadway, but it's got a lot of hype coming in.

B (42:13)

I really enjoyed it.

A (42:14)

It does have a lot of hype. Yeah. Great. So I'll give you that one. I'm gonna put in Gypsy. I think there's gonna be a lot of. I mean, just based off the critics response, based off of kind of the buzz around it, I think it's gonna be. Be a big contender. And I know that you. You have your own qualms with it, but I do think. I do think there's going to be a. Some love for it.

B (42:35)

So my qualms aside, I am genuine. Like, there are nominations for Gypsy that I maybe wouldn't give it myself, but I do think it has a very good shot at. And I do think that George has a good shot at director. And Lord knows I've been very vocal how much I love him as a director. And I don't think that Gypsy is his best. The thing about Gypsy is this is. And we'll talk about this again with Revival. This is a show where of the people in the community that I've spoken to about it, and maybe I am just attracting these people because I went public on my being underwhelmed by the production overall. Didn't hate it, but was underwhelmed. I have a lot of people who reached out to me and said how much they were also underwhelmed or just flat out disliked the. The revival. I. I would say that of the people I've spoken to, and I'm talking about, like, agents, producers, writers, actors, music directors. A lot of them, of the people I've spoken to have seen it. Half of them liked to. Loved audra and like, 25% of them actually liked the production. And I also said this on the pod. I haven't actually read the reviews, but a lot of people reached out to me when the reviews came out. A lot of them are pretty much just, like, Audra focused. They're not like, this revival is incredible. They're like, she's incredible. And Gypsy's a great musical.

A (43:54)

Yeah.

B (43:54)

So we'll see. I mean, I think Gypsy is a show that just does well every time it comes to Broadway, at least in terms of reviews, in terms of Tony nominations. But I'm getting more a vibe of Bernadette Peters in Gypsy and less Patti LuPone in Gypsy, where, like, the folk, like, it's a controversial rose leading this production that not everyone is loving. And when it was Bernadette, Peter, Sam Mendes did not get nominated. So it could.

A (44:19)

Interesting.

B (44:19)

I think it could happen where George doesn't get nominated, especially if there are bigger swings that hit harder. But again, this is where I'm like, who the fuck knows if Floyd Collins is gonna work?

A (44:29)

Yeah.

B (44:30)

Buena Visa, Social Club. Similar. Like, it could be a Kimberly Akimbo, where it comes to Broadway from the Atlantic and the expansion helps it. It could be a Days of Wine and Roses where it kind of flounders in a larger space.

A (44:41)

Right.

B (44:43)

But it seems a much larger show than Days of Wine and Roses in general. This is also, not to say other things that are giant fucking question marks.

A (44:51)

For me, like Pirates.

B (44:53)

Pirates. Just in Time. Like, just in Time is such a fucking. What the fuck?

A (45:00)

For me. Yeah. Because you saw the set, the set design, or, like, the seating arrangement for it. Yeah.

B (45:04)

It's all in a nightclub, right? Yeah.

A (45:06)

It's all environmental, so. Well, I think it's more like a Lady Day sort of set up. But I think for me, I'm really curious about Pirates just because if they pull that show off, well, let's say everyone's like, oh, that's such a good revival. And they did something with that that no one expected. I can see it coming in here and doing very well at the Tonys. Right? We don't know yet. Right.

B (45:27)

We don't.

A (45:28)

I mean, I don't know if you like the show to begin with or not, but it seems like they're doing kind of a whole new take with it to begin with.

B (45:32)

I love Pirates of Penzance. I did it at our alma mater. I think it's.

A (45:36)

Aha. Yes. Yes.

B (45:38)

I think it's such a delightful show. Stage Door, Manor, the Manor, everyone. But from what I understand, like, they're doing a big overhaul. Well, not big overhaul, but, like, they're. They're doing a major makeover on it. I think they're setting it in New Orleans. I think if they're setting it into, like, the 1920s or 30s, maybe.

A (45:53)

Right. Big swing.

B (45:54)

Big, big, big swing. Rupert Holmes is doing a revision on the book. But, yeah, it's. And, like, what I'll say is that I'm getting a little bit of deja vu from the Sweeney Todd Pajama Game Tony year, which I know you're very young and you weren't in the biz yet, but I don't know if you remember this. The John Doyle Sweeney Todd comes in, right, Fucking rave reviews. It's doing really great business. It's a divisive production. Not everyone loves it, but it is like an event. It is the moment. And everyone was going, pajama game, that old war horse. And they're casting Kelli o', Hara, fresh off of Light on the Piazza. Did no one tell them that she needs to belt? And then I remember it opened to equally incredible reviews. I see it, like, the week after it opens and I'm on the floor. I think it's. I think it's just so delightful. And it ends up winning the revival for the Tony revival and, sorry, the Tony for best revival. And it's, as you said, like, it's entirely possible that if they nail Pirates, it's coming in towards the end of the season. There could be a recency bias and the excitement around something so that shouldn't work and yet work so well. And it's not a bonkers take like Sunset Boulevard. It's not sort of a split the vote kind of take like Gypsy. It's just a genuinely good time. And people want a good time right now.

A (47:12)

Right. And say, yeah, sorry to make.

B (47:14)

No, no, no. But that's where it's like, if it. If it works, it works. And I think that could be a major direction nomination for them.

A (47:23)

Yeah. And same thing goes for Floyd Collins. I mean, you mentioned that earlier, but.

B (47:28)

But yeah, yeah. I mean, the thing is that I wonder with things like Real Women have Curves for me, from what I remember, did not make a huge splash at art. And so it's coming in sort of like with Shoulder Shrugged. But a year ago, we said the same thing about the Outsiders. Smash and Boop are both coming in with everyone being like, they really need to work on that book because they have, you know, a killer leading performance by the main actress. There's, like, really great numbers going on in there. If they. If they can trim, if they can focus, like they've got a hit on their hands and people seem to be a little more jazzed about Boop than Smash. But, like, again, if they. If they can focus it. We're talking about two directors that people really enjoy. People really like Jerry Mitchell. So never really. We'll talk about this with choreography especially. But, like, don't ever really bet against him.

A (48:19)

Yeah.

B (48:19)

The shows he does because people like him and they want to support the things he does.

A (48:23)

So if.

B (48:23)

If Boop can be a successful musical comedy entertainment, he's going to get a lot of credit for that. Like he did with Kinky Boots.

A (48:31)

Like. Yeah.

B (48:31)

With Legally Blonde, which is, again, that's why I'm like, Dead Outlaw, maybe Happy Ending is Sunset Boulevard. David Fromer, Michael Arden, and Jamie Lloyd are the only three that I'm like, I'm putting those down and money on it.

A (48:41)

Yeah. And question mark for the rest.

B (48:42)

Question mark for the rest. But if you were. If you're to be like, okay, Matt, go with your gut. I'm gonna say Dead Outlaw, maybe Happy Ending, Sunset Boulevard, Floyd Collins, and Buena Vista Social Club, if only because it also feels like Buena Vista Social Club could be a major contender for musical. And I know y' all are going, Matthew, you said nothing about Operation Mincemeat.

A (49:05)

Interesting that.

B (49:07)

Yeah. The things you also have to think about are, like, what are major contenders for revival in musical? And we'll talk about this as we get to those categories. But I think there are two possible nominees for musical that I have not included for direction, and we'll talk about that more when we get to that category. But I think Operation Mincemeat is a situation where, like, yes, it did very well in London. I've been vocal. I didn't care for it all that much. If it lands here, then, yeah, it'll be like a. A Dead Outlaw, maybe Happy ending situation where all three of them just get, like, a shit ton of nominations.

A (49:48)

Yeah. I think it's an interesting musical season ahead of us. Right. Because I think that there's It's a. It's crowded yet again. I think that there's a lot of stuff in here that's sort of competing for the spotlight in April. Right. I think Buenavis Social Club, real women have curbs Operation Mincemeat, honestly, like, just in time. Maybe it'll get a little bit better because of J. Groff, but, like, I think that all of those are really going to have to be excellent to kind of break through all the noise 1,000%. Right. And so, I don't know. So with. With those three, I think they're all kind of in that same circle for me, of like, okay, which one, you know, takes the spotlight?

B (50:19)

Yeah, but. And that's also why I'm kind of saying old friends or Once Upon a Mattress are just sort of. They're. They're not going to break through that noise for a Direction nomination unless everything.

A (50:30)

Is just absolutely terrible, which it probably won't be. So.

B (50:33)

No. Yeah, I think with everything that's coming in, we'll probably have something that is super underwhelming, but we're going to have at least two or three that are solid to. Really.

A (50:42)

Yeah.

B (50:42)

Sensational.

A (50:42)

Yeah. Okay, great.

B (50:44)

Let's do one more, and then we'll go to break. Let's do. Oh, okay. Let's do leading actor in a play.

A (50:57)

I know.

B (50:58)

I got to find all my pages, too.

A (50:59)

Great.

B (51:02)

Do you want me to read it? Yeah. Tell me. Tell me what you're thinking.

A (51:06)

So you've got George Clooney. Good night and good luck. Kit Connor, Romeo and Juliet. Robert Downey, Jr. McNeil, Colascola O', Mary. Peter Friedman. Job. Peter Gallagher, left on 10th. Jake Gyllenhaal, Othello. Daniel Dae Kim, Yellowface. Tony Kittles, Tori Kittles. Sorry. Home. Jim Parsons, Our Town, And Denzel Washington. Othello. You could speed that up two times.

B (51:34)

You were doing a great announcer voice.

A (51:36)

Great front runner here.

B (51:38)

Kola Scola with a bullet.

A (51:40)

I'm gonna go with that. I'm gonna go with again. Don't know. Good night and good luck. So George Clooney, I think. But I do think that's obviously a big draw there. I. I want to say we're going to say Denzel, right?

B (51:54)

Yeah, I was going to say put. Put money on that.

A (51:55)

Do you think so? Denzel and Jake, probably.

B (51:58)

If. If Othello is anything better than a gentleman, 7.5, then I'm gonna say yes to both of them.

A (52:07)

Right.

B (52:08)

It doesn't have to be sensational for them both to get in. It just has to be better than good.

A (52:12)

Right. So, yeah, I'll throw those two in. And then, I mean, I want to put Daniel J. Kim in from Yellowface.

B (52:18)

That's where I'm thinking, too. I'm.

A (52:20)

I. I think it's Coles to lose, I think. I mean, I know we said we're not doing winners, but, like, unless Denzel.

B (52:26)

Is giving, like, the monumental performance that he. Honestly, he absolutely could.

A (52:31)

Yes.

B (52:31)

But also, like, Iago really is more of the Beatty role than Othello. And Othello, I have always felt.

A (52:36)

Right.

B (52:36)

Because he's such a villain. But.

A (52:38)

And there's no male lead in purpose that we know of.

B (52:40)

Not that we know.

A (52:41)

Okay.

B (52:42)

I would love to see Kit get in there for Romeo and Juliet.

A (52:46)

It's.

B (52:46)

Yeah, it's gonna be hard, I think, honest. This is. Again, this is where what I want and how I felt goes against the grain of sort of what the general consensus is. Like, I would put in Kit Connor over Jim Parsons, but I think Jim has a better shot than Kit.

A (53:04)

Yes. Yeah.

B (53:07)

But that's sort of where we're at. Like, so. Yeah, I think Cole is a lock. And again, front runner to win. I'm gonna put Daniel in there right now just because it's a performance we've seen people really liked. Ooh, hello. The phone is ringing. I'm gonna keep talking over the phone.

A (53:23)

Then it's Broadway calling.

B (53:25)

It is Daniel Dae Kim calling to be like, thank you so much for my shout out.

A (53:28)

Yes.

B (53:28)

No, it's. It's Dick. My mom's answering machine. Jesus fucking Christ. I think people really liked yellowface. I think that is a lock for a revival nomination. And there are two other nominations it could get to support revival, and Daniel is one of them. So I'm gonna say Daniel for now. So, Cole. Absolutely a lock. I'm gonna say with Daniel Dae Kim, it is more that I think that everyone really liked yellowface. People like David Henry Huang. It's gonna get a nomination for revival, and there are two other categories it can get nominated in to support that revival nomination, and one is Daniel. So I'm gonna say that. I'm gonna say Denzel. Just the star power of it alone. Plus, like, it's a fucking Othello. And then if it's anything better than good, I'm including Jake and then George Clooney as well. Once again, for the star power. I really thought McNeil was a giant nothing burger, as did many people.

A (54:30)

Right.

B (54:31)

But, like, sometimes these nominators, they just fucking throw something random your way.

A (54:35)

Yeah. I will say I want to dispel the myth that is, like, people think, oh, well, they want them to come to the Tonys. Like, oh, no, they want Robert Downey Jr there because it'll help boost ratings. Like, they don't care about that. They don't think about the nominators. Don't think about that. What was it? I feel like there was something. Maybe it was last. Yeah. Because they didn't get Steve Carell in last season.

B (54:51)

They didn't nominate Steve Carell. And how many years did they not nominate Daniel Radcliffe until they finally nominated him.

A (54:57)

So, first off, so for people who will say, well, they want Robert Downey Jr there because it'll help boost rating. No, that's. No. No one is thinking that. So. No, but I mean, look, there is something to be said where if they sit there and they say, you know, if we want to reward McNeil somehow, maybe that's how we do it. Yeah. But I don't know.

B (55:12)

But I wonder if any of them are thinking of rewarding McNeil. I have spoken to one person who genuinely liked that play. Granted, this is a family member who used to be a Tony Nominator. Not anymore. Because the nominating committee, I believe you only get three years, and then you have to. To step aside. But I don't think it's like an overhaul each. After three years. It's like each year, some. A couple people get taken off and.

A (55:37)

New people get put on, unlike the Supreme Court.

B (55:41)

Oh, my God. Let's. Let's. Let's not go with softball there. Let's go a little harder, shall we? I think that this is the only person I've spoken to who actually enjoyed McNeil. This is the same person who also really loved Mother Play last season, which. Yeah, you guys, did you hear what David's body just did? That's how my body reacts every time we bring up Mother Play. But. Yeah, but, like, that's the thing is I just don't think that this is a play that anyone cared about.

A (56:09)

Yeah.

B (56:09)

And it. Yes, it's Lincoln center, but, like, they made their money. They got their. I wouldn't say they got their flowers. Like, they got their money.

A (56:16)

Yeah, they.

B (56:17)

It did exactly what they wanted it to do. It sold out. They were grossing over a million dollars every week.

A (56:23)

They.

B (56:24)

They're fine. If they want to acknowledge Lincoln center, they can nominate Floyd Collins.

A (56:27)

Yes.

B (56:28)

If it's. If it's good.

A (56:28)

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And then I think Jim Parsons also, if again, has a. Has a shot at getting in there. I don't know if I would put him in there personally, but, you know, I. I think last season we said he wasn't, you know, he didn't have a good shot at getting in. He got in, so.

B (56:42)

Sure did.

A (56:43)

So you never know.

B (56:43)

You never know. I think Jim, again, Jim Parsons is another one where it took a long time for him to break through on a nomination. And now that he has, I. I'm not gonna say I fear, because I do like him, even if I don't really like the performances. He always Gives on stage. Now that he's broken through, I think it's like, well, now that the dam has burst, we can nominate him again. Like, yeah, whenever we finally nominate Paul Alexander Nolan, once he finally gets that nomination, it's going to be non stop. It's just a matter of fucking when.

A (57:10)

He's not in anything this season, I don't think.

B (57:12)

Unfortunately not.

A (57:13)

But we have to get him on your podcast.

B (57:16)

Yeah, I would just like to talk to him about his craft. I think he's really good at what he does.

A (57:19)

He's incredible. He's incredible. Yeah. In my mind should have gotten a nom for parade, but parade, obviously, yeah.

B (57:26)

Water for elephants. Jesus Christ superstar, Fucking even jock. Even Dr. Zhivago. He was the best thing about that terrible show. And he was the only other good thing about Bright Star outside of Carmen Cusack. I'm like, let's fucking give the man the recognition he deserves.

A (57:40)

Baby, take up.

B (57:41)

Yeah. But hey, Sally Murphy still doesn't have a Tony nomination, so I'm just going to keep crying into my pillow every night. And on that note, let's take another break. Billy, I beg to differ with you.

A (57:50)

How do you mean?

B (57:50)

You're the top.

A (57:51)

Yeah, you're an arrow caller.

B (57:54)

You're the top.

A (57:57)

You're a coolage dollar.

B (57:59)

You're the nimble tread of the feet of. And we're back. Okay, so we're going to go back to knocking out some just as important categories, but the categories that don't usually make it to air, which are design. So we're going to go into design. The design categories for musical, set, costume, lighting, sound as well as orchestrations.

A (58:22)

Are they still not airing those?

B (58:23)

They are still not airing those.

A (58:25)

Oh yeah, well, see, I've been at the ceremony two years in a row, so I don't know what they air and what they don't air.

B (58:30)

But you get to see the winners no matter what, Right? Yes.

A (58:34)

Anyways.

B (58:35)

No. Well, they go on the pre televised.

A (58:38)

Oh right. They do that. They do like the hour before.

B (58:40)

Yeah, the act one.

A (58:41)

They go that like Darren Criss will host or whatever.

B (58:44)

Not this year because he's gonna be maybe nominated.

A (58:46)

We'll talk about that.

B (58:47)

Yeah, well, we'll talk about that. Okay, so lightning. So let's start. Let's go backwards up to. So we'll do sound, then lighting, then costumes.

A (58:55)

Got it.

B (58:55)

Then orchestrations.

A (58:56)

Great.

B (58:57)

A category that I love, by the way. I'm obsessed with orchestrations.

A (59:00)

Oh, they're gonna say sound design. I was like, you probably are more in love with sound design nominations than I think anybody I've ever met.

B (59:07)

I'm not in love with sound design nominations. It's more just like when sound is that thing where when it's really, really good, you notice it, and when it's really, really bad, you notice it. And I don't like it when really, really bad sound designs get nominated.

A (59:23)

Yeah, I think you're right about that. Right. Like, where if it's a really good sound design of something, you almost. Unless there's something sounds. Some sound effects of some sort. Right. You almost shouldn't notice it. Right.

B (59:32)

But anyways, no, I. Absolutely. You should. You should not notice it. And yet sometimes we still do. Okay, so one moment, please. Just making sure I have everything. Good to go. Bam, bam, bam. Okay, so sound design of a musical. I have so far three. That actually I'm going to. That I'm going to again say just like Locked in already is Sunset Boulevard maybe Happy Ending and Dead Outlaw. I'm also going to go on a limb and say Floyd Collins.

A (60:07)

Sure.

B (60:07)

Anyone who knows Floyd Collins knows that the second song of Floyd Collins, when Floyd goes into the cave for the first time. I think it's. It's not how the glory Goes, it's some other song, but it. That whole song is Jeremy Jordan singing with his own echoing voice.

A (60:24)

Right.

B (60:25)

Doing, like rounds with the echoes. And that is just like. That is a sound design nomination, like, lock, stock and barrel.

A (60:31)

Right.

B (60:32)

So, yeah, I'm putting that in. And then I'm gonna say, actually, Operation Mincemeat.

A (60:36)

Sure.

B (60:37)

I think if we're gonna go with any other possibilities, Gypsy, just because, again, we're talking, like, people who maybe don't understand sound design and like. Well, I could hear the singers.

A (60:50)

Right. Because you're wearing hearing aids.

B (60:52)

Exactly. No, it's very good. Just. Just in time. Again, environmental design. And, you know, I'm sure that Jonathan Groff on a microphone is going to be very important to that show. So that could also absolutely happen. Maybe, I don't know. Fucking redwood.

A (61:10)

Sure.

B (61:11)

You could hear Adina from the tree, and that was really impressive.

A (61:15)

I don't even know. I don't. I can't even tell you what the show's about.

B (61:17)

I just know she's in trees. She's in a tree somehow.

A (61:20)

If it's about climate change, I think, but I think it's. So is the other show, the one that she's doing with Diane Paulus is also about climate change.

B (61:26)

I mean, in a way. In a way. So is Frozen when You think?

A (61:29)

Sure, sure. Well, she.

B (61:31)

She's putting her foot on the ground and she's saying what she's saying.

A (61:34)

Yeah. Well, one of my favorite videos of all time is the Frozen parody that they. I don't know when that. It was like when Russia. The whole thing with like banning gay athletes from the Olympics and I don't know who was. But like Broadway actors did this like Frozen parody. I don't know anyways, where they said let it go. Yes. I may be mixing up YouTube videos. Anyways, I would say it sounds very Broadway probably. I mean. Yeah. Sound design. Sure. You know, I. Sunset Boulevard. I think it's very impressive what they did technically with that show. And I think that's kind of where I agree with you. The rest I'd kind of say sure. Maybe happy ending, I think is also very well done.

B (62:09)

I just think maybe happy ending. What it has really going for it is like that quirky small show in a lot of ways. But the tech elements are also very elaborate and impressive. So as opposed to like a Kimberly Akimbo or a. I don't know, like a Caroline or change. I'm just going with all the Janine d' Story musicals here. Like.

A (62:30)

Right.

B (62:30)

It's not. It. It is more visually impressive than those shows are and thus there are more categories to.

A (62:36)

Yes.

B (62:37)

Put it into.

A (62:38)

Yes.

B (62:39)

The projection stuff alone, like with the. With the memories of the two robots, that's. I think sound design is very impressive. Dead Outlaw, if anyone who's seen that knows, like again, similar to what I said with Just In Time, there's a lot of microphone work on that show and thus there's of a ton difference between how people sound when they're in a scene versus how they are when they're singing on mic. And that show also is very much sort of about the senses. Like it's. You didn't see the encounter, did you?

A (63:08)

No, I did not.

B (63:09)

That was the one man play about the guy who goes to some like barely discovered country in Africa and ultimately like loses his camera. But he discovers this tribe that no one really knows about. And so the whole thing is you're wearing earphones and you're hearing all the sounds because there's no visuals because he lost his camera.

A (63:26)

I heard about this.

B (63:27)

Yes. So Dead Outlaw kind of has a similar aesthetic of it's a lot of dim lighting and things popping out in like small places. And the sound is very important for you understanding where you're at.

A (63:39)

Yeah, great.

B (63:41)

Yeah. So I produced by audible.

A (63:43)

Haha. Get it?

B (63:44)

Sound well, and at the Manetta Lane Theater that Audible owns. So.

A (63:48)

Yeah, it's actually not being produced by Audible.

B (63:50)

I'm wrong, but Audible owns that theater.

A (63:52)

Yeah.

B (63:52)

Yeah.

A (63:53)

So there you go.

B (63:53)

You weren't.

A (63:54)

You were making a joke. Mr. Bezos is gonna come to the Tonys.

B (63:57)

Oh, my God, Finally.

A (63:58)

He came to Sunset Boulevard opening night. I don't know if you saw that.

B (64:01)

Well, that's two problematic people. At the St. James Theater that night.

A (64:04)

Oh, sorry. I guess I shouldn't have gone. I know what you're referencing, and I'm just ignoring it. So.

B (64:10)

No, there's nothing to reference anymore. It'll pop up again in May because social media. Social media, and we'll see how it goes. But also, I love that a lot of Broadway is like, I mean, she was at Patty's Tony party. So if Patty says it's okay, I'm like, since when did we treat Patti LuPone like a Dom top? That girl is a loudmouth bottom, and we all know it.

A (64:27)

Whoa.

B (64:27)

She is. She likes to be told what to do to ask any director who's ever handled her.

A (64:31)

You're really trying to go viral, aren't you?

B (64:33)

Of course I am. No, it's just true. She said, like, listen to what she talks about. She's like, I love being in an ensemble, and I love. When I'm with a really smart director who knows what to do. I'm like, yeah, you like being told what to do.

A (64:43)

Interesting.

B (64:43)

Yeah. I don't think.

A (64:45)

For the record. No comment.

B (64:46)

No comment. But, like, I think no actor wants to be person in the room who has to come up with all the ideas. They want to be in a collaborative space. So I just. I just love it when, like, the community is like, well, Patty said. I'm like, let's not treat her like she's the Bible. Come on.

A (64:58)

Right? Matt Koplik's the bible.

B (65:01)

I mean, I am. I am the.

A (65:03)

You can open him up any time of day, that's for sure. Anyways, so sound design of a musical.

B (65:08)

I have no response. To quote David Lynch. No comment.

A (65:12)

But also, like, again, one more. We'll throw in there, like, you know, who knows what pirates is going to be? Who knows what old friends, you know? I mean, we know what that's going to be, but, like, the orchestra sounds great in that. If it's like a. Like, oh, this is a great time. Sure.

B (65:24)

Anyways, I also say about Sunset Boulevard in terms of sound design is I don't think they're going to be eligible for orchestrations. But I think it's 18 or 19 pieces. It sounds like 40. That's a really well balanced orchestra.

A (65:34)

Yeah.

B (65:34)

Good for them.

A (65:35)

Yeah.

B (65:36)

Yeah. Lighting design. Lighting design of a musical. I'm also going to say Sunset Boulevard, maybe Happy Ending, Floyd Collins, Dead Outlaw. And then I'm gonna go on a limb here and say Swept Away. I think that there are two major categories where Swept Away could get remembered come April May. And I think this is one of them. I thought the line design for Swept Away was really beautiful. I think, again, there's just once again, so many what ifs. You know, if Smash and Boop end up being really big visual treats, then lighting design and set design could really go in their favor. But also, as we mentioned, pirates. Who knows what the hell that's going to be? Also Just in time. Like when you're in an environmental setting, lighting design is very important. As we've learned with Romeo and Juliet and Enemy of the People, Like Circle in the Square is a space where lighting is very important because you can see everything. So you need the lighting to tell you where to look.

A (66:35)

Right.

B (66:35)

With just in time. Like maybe that's a situation where they, you know, really can do that.

A (66:39)

Yeah.

B (66:40)

But yeah, right now I'm going with what I know, which is Sunset Boulevard, maybe Happy Ending, Dead Outlaw and then Floyd Collins and Swept Away. Also. Death becomes her. Who knows? Death becomes her has a lot of visual flair.

A (66:50)

Yeah. I mean, I. Again, with what I know so far, I would say, I mean, I've only seen maybe Happy Ending and Sunset Boulevard. I mean, I take your word for it on Dead Outlaw, but yeah, the rest is question mark. Too early to call. One you didn't mention that Also could be really fascinating. Is the last five years right Again, that's also a big question mark in terms of what happens there. Floyd Collins, question mark. But pretty techie. Or at least lighting design could matter a lot.

B (67:15)

Yeah.

A (67:16)

And if it's done well, then it could get their Boop. Big musical, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Too early to call.

B (67:21)

I think a couple that. I'm just sort of gonna go out on a limb and say we don't really have to worry about them. For Lightning Design, I would say A Wonderful World. We don't have to really worry about Elf. Once Upon a Mattress. I'm also gonna say Tammy Faye, like Gypsy. Even with the slight improvements at Gypsy and people finally finding their light spots on stage, the second time I saw Gypsy, I still was kind of underwhelmed by the lightning design of it, especially because that Set leaves so much dead space that. That the lighting needs to fill up what's empty, and it just doesn't. So I'm just gonna. I'm gonna put that by the wayside. It's a shame that elf is probably gonna be left by the wayside because I found that very, very delightful. But we'll talk about that later. Okay. Costume design of a musical. I'm gonna say there's one super, super lock here, and that is Death Becomes her. Are you trying to find your costumes of your musical?

A (68:26)

Did we say. We said Sunset for lighting design, right?

B (68:29)

We did, yeah.

A (68:29)

Okay.

B (68:30)

For lighting design, we said sunset. Maybe happy ending. Dead Outlaw.

A (68:34)

Okay.

B (68:35)

Floyd Collins for me. Floyd Collins. And you kind of agreed on that. And then the fifth one, I know is a question mark for you, but I'm being brave with a spaghetti throw right now and saying Swept Away and I'll probably regret it in a few weeks.

A (68:47)

Yes, I think Swept Away is. It's going to be a testament to how well someone can toady campaign. I think that of the small shows this fall, everybody put their rallying energy behind maybe happy ending. Right. Everyone was like, this is the show we are rallying behind. And Swept Away sadly got swept away. And so I think with all of its nominations, it will be a testament to what is its staying power anyways.

B (69:15)

I think Swept Away is a situation where it has its fans and it becomes. If people want to remember it, what are the things that they remember most about it. And I think the sound of it is something that they'll remember and the look of it. And I would argue that the lightning design is more integral to the impression that show gave than set design. The set design has one interesting. The set design had really one big reveal, which people will remember, I'm sure. But I don't know if one reveal is enough for Swept Away to get a set design nomination. I think the lighting design is something that will be more doable for them to get nomination for. But also, I'm talking out of my butt right now. So costume designer, musical. The one major lock I have is Death becomes her.

A (70:02)

Sure.

B (70:03)

Which those I also would. I'm gonna argue at the moment. We'll see what the rest of the spring holds. But at the moment, that's also the front runner to win. Paula Tazewell is going to have a really good year because he's going to win the Oscar for Wicked and he could very much well win the Tony for Death Becomes Her. Jennifer Simard and Megan Hilty are dressed incredibly. Michelle Williams has a costume that looks like a bejeweled vagina. It's. It's very camp, and it's lovely. I did say once that, like, I would have loved to have seen what Greg Barnes could have done with the show if you gave him $2 million and a mountain of cocaine. But. But that's not to take away from what Paul Tazewell has done. I think he's done a really lovely job also. Kind of going. Flying by the seat of my pants. I'm gonna say, boop. I feel like there's gonna be a lot of color in that show, and that's gonna be very impressive for people. I'm gonna say pirates. Just.

A (70:57)

New Orleans. Right. You know, they're doing a theme, right? Yeah. So it's not gonna.

B (71:01)

I mean, I think it's gonna be very campy vibes, which means, like a very over the top look in general.

A (71:07)

Right, Right.

B (71:09)

My other two question marks I have right now possibly smash. Yeah, maybe we'll see how they dress all those Marilyns. And then right now, I also have Gypsy, which I am kind of iffy about. But Gypsy is a show that it doesn't usually get nominated for its design outside of costumes, but the costumes it gets nominated for tend to rely on the gowns that Louise wears during the strip, and what she wears in the strip for this are not terribly great.

A (71:37)

Right. I mean, the one that you didn't mention, I'm gonna ask about is Sunset Boulevard. I know that the costumes are very minimal, but what we were saying earlier about the costumes serving the overall vision and the show. It does, that they're nothing crazy, intense. I can't even think of a single costume that was like, oh, that is a costume.

B (71:58)

But it's. Yeah, it's very. Say what you will about Sunset Boulevard, everything is locked in to the world that they have set up. Whether everything makes sense is another question. And I've also said, like, there are moments in Sunset Boulevard that straight up only make sense to Jamie Lloyd. And I don't care how much you love the show. There are some things you just can't explain to me. But aesthetically speaking, the. The design of that show, I think it is all very locked in, but I think that is an easy category to not nominate if you. If you're looking to spread wealth, you don't have to do that.

A (72:33)

Right. And there would probably even be some people not happy with it if you didn't nominate other shows. Like, I thought A Wonderful World, for example, had great costumes.

B (72:41)

They had really Nice costumes, good ensemble.

A (72:42)

Right. Like, you know, whether or not I'll get in, I think, is a different question. But in Dead Outlaw, you saw it. Not a costumey, not really a costume show.

B (72:49)

I think that the lighting and the sound are really the designs of that show.

A (72:53)

Got it.

B (72:53)

I would even say, like, Operation Mincemeat, I think, is more going to be more on the bubble for lighting than for costumes. There are quite a few costumes in that show, but, like, the main thing is everyone's in suits that they then sort of, like, add on and take away from when they play different roles. I mean, I think even Once Upon a Mattress is a better contender than Sunset right now because, like, again, it's color, it's big. And, yeah, I didn't love the costumes in Once Upon a Mattress, but what they did was because the set was all gray and black, the costumes then popped.

A (73:28)

Yeah.

B (73:28)

More than they would have if the set were as colorful as the costumes. I mean, I would love for Wonderful World to get in there for costumes. There were some really beautiful things in that. But, yeah, I'm gonna say death becomes her with a bullet. Pirates. Boop. Smash. And Gypsy with a possible overtaking of mattress.

A (73:47)

Or.

B (73:50)

Maybe Wonderful World. I would. I wouldn't. I would like that a great deal. What if Redwood having amazing costumes.

A (73:56)

Oh, my gosh. What if, like, Adina has, like, a reveal? After a reveal, it's like a full. And there's like, oh, they have, like, an Aida fashion Runway part.

B (74:03)

Absolutely. And everyone's dressed as trees, but there are rings inside each costume, so they were taking.

A (74:10)

Whoa. Never, Never underestimate. Underestimate Tina Landau until she.

B (74:16)

Until she actually disappoints you. Don't underestimate her.

A (74:18)

Yeah, well, okay, again, say what you will, that SpongeBob the musical. Incredible.

B (74:23)

I really enjoyed SpongeBob. My issue with SpongeBob was I. I thought that the first act had a great opener, and then the rest of act one was sort of just okay. And then act two had an okay opener, and then was incredible. Like, SpongeBob ended, and I went, oh, you ended up perfectly. Like, this is how it should be.

A (74:37)

I just loved the. Like, that. I was, like, telling friends, like, yeah. And, like, there was this whole plot line about, like, immigration and, like, people not accepting Sandy because she's not from the town. Everyone was like, this is the spongebob musical. And you're like, yeah, you know, it's the spongebob musical, girl.

B (74:52)

People roll their eyes to me when I tell them that Paddington 2 is a perfect movie. And I remember who would ever thought that the Barbie movie would be controversial, you know?

A (75:01)

Wow.

B (75:02)

I love it. Love to see it, love to hear.

A (75:03)

I feel like we have one more scenic design for musical.

B (75:05)

Anything. Well, anything about costume design that you wanted to know?

A (75:08)

Okay. No, I think we hit it all.

B (75:10)

Okay. Scenic design of a musical. Do you want to give me a couple of your.

A (75:15)

Once I find it? Yes. I think for sneak design. A musical. Okay. I'm going to say Sunset Boulevard.

B (75:20)

Okay.

A (75:21)

Because I assume the projections are always included. The screen there. Death becomes her. I'm gonna say. Trying to think. See, like I would put a wonderful world in there, but I don't think it's gonna get in there. Maybe happy ending. Of course, that one also is definitely gonna get in there. So right now I have Death becomes her. Maybe happy ending, Sunset Boulevard. The rest I'm gonna kind of boop. I think it's very techy, so I can see that maybe getting in there. Dead Outlaw, you said is.

B (75:52)

It's not really the set, but that could be a Bob Crowley once set design nomination. Sure. Like, it's simple, but it does the job.

A (76:00)

Yes. So that's maybe same thing with Floyd Collins. You know, we'll see what goes on there. Redwood. There could be a lot of trees. There could be a lot of trees.

B (76:10)

Can I tell you something crazy? I currently have redwood in my five just because of the trees.

A (76:14)

You're like, no, but that's like, that's. Which. It's a very interesting testament though, to their marketing. Right. Because you're like, we're all. We're sitting here. And we're like, what do we know about the show? And it's. I think it starts previews. When is the third previews?

B (76:24)

Soon. This. This month.

A (76:25)

Yeah. And we're like, what do we know about it? Idina, Menzel and trees. Yeah. Right. And you're sort of like, okay. You know, I don't know. Anyways, Smash. Smash could also be in there. Right. Like, don't know what that set looks like. I. The one and then the one that we will talk about is Swept Way. Yeah. Right. Where I think. I do think if Swept Way is going to get a single nomination, this is probably its best shot. Because that set reveal and the set itself is what people are going to remember from the show most. Right? Yeah.

B (76:52)

I think if they don't. I think again, I think lighting design and. Or this is a spoiler. But I think lighting design and orchestrations are the best spots for Swept Away to get seen, I would not be surprised if a scenic design nomination happened for them. I was very surprised that Lempicka got in. But sometimes a simple but effective set really does the job.

A (77:13)

Right.

B (77:14)

Which. Which, I mean, even if they love Dead Outlaw, that could be a Dead Outlaw sort of thing, where if. If those of you who have seen the show and know it, like, again, it is pretty bare bones, but they do stuff with it. It's not like they're on a bare stage with lighting. Like, there. There is a set about it, and the set is. Is used very well. But also, they really do love spectacle, which is where I think Boop will probably shine. And Boop, I think, does a similar, like, wizard of Oz thing where, like, the Boop. World is black and white and then she goes into color and all this stuff. So I think. Yeah, so I think that's going to be very big for them.

A (77:46)

Yeah.

B (77:46)

I think death becomes her and maybe Happy ending are pretty much Locke's. I'm gonna go on a limb and say redwood. I'm gonna go on a limb and say Boop. And then pirates is such a goddamn question.

A (78:00)

We literally are like that. Because I'm thinking New Orleans, I'm thinking, all right, that's big. And, you know.

B (78:06)

Yeah.

A (78:06)

Jinx, monsoon, Drag queen. So maybe that's a big show. I don't know.

B (78:10)

We'll say. Yeah. I mean, it sounds that Boulevard is that thing where, because of the technical elements of it, it could get a set design nomination or it could be everyone's, like, it is mostly a black box except for the screen.

A (78:24)

Yeah.

B (78:25)

So I. I just don't know.

A (78:27)

But maybe. Maybe, like the. The. Maybe Schubert Alley, like, is part of the set too, if you think about it. So, like, they're kind of using all of that.

B (78:35)

But not. Not since birdman has the St. James Theater been used so in depth.

A (78:40)

Exactly.

B (78:40)

I know I didn't like the set for Wonderful World, if I'm being honest, but I also don't know anything about the set design for Buena Vista Social Club or. Real women have curves. What if real women have curves as the outsiders of the season comes and blows us all away? Could be what the fuck? Or not even blows us all away, but just comes in and ends up having the energy.

A (78:58)

Maybe.

B (78:59)

Maybe. Maybe, yeah. Operation Mincemeat for me is a no go. Although there's a big reveal at the end of the show that could maybe get them a set design nomination. But.

A (79:09)

And then same thing with Just In Time. We don't really know either.

B (79:11)

Yeah.

A (79:11)

Because, again, what they do with that space could be incredible.

B (79:13)

So if Just In Time ends up being really good, I am going to not throw my shoe, but I'm just gonna kind of roll my head around and be like, I don't even know what's up or down anymore.

A (79:27)

Mm. I mean, you never know. That could be our best musical as far as, you know.

B (79:31)

It's not going to be the Tonys, but it could have a hard time getting behind a jukebox musical. They have a really hard time.

A (79:40)

I mean, I. I have a feel. I mean, yeah, I'm not. I'm not going to play devil's advocate here, but, like, people have such a fondness for Jonathan Grof or he. If he gives such a good performance in that, let's say.

B (79:49)

And then they'll vote for him again.

A (79:51)

Okay, sure. I mean, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not going to put money down just in time.

B (79:54)

I think. I think that if. If the show is solid plus and he is great, then, yeah, I think that rides them out to a best musical nomination. I don't think that's enough for it to win, though. Sure, it could be enough for him to win because we'll talk about actor in a musical, because that's a sort of wide open field right now.

A (80:12)

Yeah.

B (80:13)

Where a couple of different men could end up just being the dominant frontrunner, but who knows? It's also.

A (80:19)

It's like a Friday night at Matt Koplik's apartment. Dominant frontrunner, wide open field, lots of men. Who's the front runner?

B (80:26)

I don't like when other people make jokes about me being slutty. I like it when I make jokes about me being slut.

A (80:33)

I apologize.

B (80:33)

Because when I do it, everyone understands how silly I'm being. When you say it, you say it was such authority. The listeners are going to be like, wait, is Matt really just a hole with limbs?

A (80:44)

Yes, is the answer, listeners. But anyways, yes. So, like I was. So, like I was saying about scenic design of a musical, it's interesting. Too early to call.

B (80:55)

Too early to call. Final one is orchestrations.

A (80:57)

Before the break. You mean before the break. Yes.

B (80:59)

Well, I was going to. We were going to do one acting thing, but I think we've spent so much time on this, we'll just do orchestrations and then go to break again. Okay, orchestrations. So orchestrations tend to go hand in hand with score, nominations and the occasional jukebox musical. If they do a really weird thing with it, sometimes a revival. If again, they do a weird thing with it because a lot of revivals now also, like, the big thing is we're using the original orchestrations and like the full orchestra now, which I love. I love having a full orchestra. But that just also means that we don't have like bonkers arrangements for revivals.

A (81:33)

Right. As much and worth noting, a revival won this one last year.

B (81:38)

Yes, that is true. It was indeed Merrily so. I will say it's rare. For if something is eligible for score and wins orchestrations but not score, that is very rare Sell Make It Hot is one of the few, if not the only one to actually do it because usually it is whatever wins best score. So something like Hadestown or something like Hamilton or. It is a technically speaking jukebox musical that does a lot of arrangements with pre existing music. Like An American in Paris, like Moulin Rouge, like Girl from the north country or it is a revival like Merrily so. With that in mind, I'm gonna say we've got two major score frontrunners, which are Dead Outlaw and maybe Happy Ending. And I would. I'm gonna put them in for orchestrations. We have a jukebox musical that is also a major contender for best musical, which is Buena Vista Social Club. So I'm putting that as my third. We have the Saddle jukebox musical, from what I understand. Yeah.

A (82:50)

Of whose music?

B (82:53)

Hold, please. Just from the reviews. The reviews. I read the New York Times review that talked about it.

A (83:01)

Oh, sorry. Yes, it is.

B (83:03)

It is a song catalog. The Buena Vista Social Club.

A (83:06)

Oh, sorry. For some reason. I'm sorry. I'm getting that in. Yeah. Okay.

B (83:10)

What are you. What are you getting mixed up with?

A (83:11)

Real women have. They're just like. Like small musicals I don't know about. So I'm like.

B (83:15)

Yeah, I'm saying. So I'm saying Dead Outlaw, maybe Happy Ending, which are score possibilities. Buena Vista Social Club, which is jukebox. I'm also right now going to say Swept Away Jukebox, but does a lot of interesting things musically with it. And then I'm gonna say that last lot for me. I have like a couple things circling. I have Death Becomes Her Circling, which will get a score nomination. I'm pretty sure a lot of people are not thrilled with that score, but it's kind of a weak season in that category. And I think it's such a big musical with very smart lyrics. And so that's an easy in. And new orchestrations for it are big and splashy. There's a possibility of Pirates again, like Hell yeah. Doing that New Orleans vibe on. On Gilbert and Sullivan. If it lands, it lands. And then also like Smash or Boop, which are just like two big musicals.

A (84:06)

Snow, Redwood.

B (84:08)

I mean, maybe with the percussion on the trees. I don't know. I was gonna make some joke.

A (84:14)

That's true. No, I was gonna. I'm gonna say, though, it's like when a revival can do new orchestrations very well. You know, I think it's. It's good. So I think with Pirates, I mean, we saw it with once on this Island. Right. In 2018. Right. Where the updated orchestrations really served the vision of the show. And so there's a chance that could kind of come in. Old Friends is also interesting. I imagine that.

B (84:32)

Oh, that's a good point.

A (84:34)

Right. I mean, they. Yeah. I don't know if that'll count or not.

B (84:39)

I would. Yeah.

A (84:39)

I'm.

B (84:40)

I have it in the unclear because I'm not sure just yet. It could count because I don't think they're going to be able to do original charts for all of those Sondheim songs because it's a. It's not going to be a 25 piece orchestra.

A (84:51)

Right.

B (84:51)

And they have to adapt so many different. So many different scores for the same piece band for all of it.

A (84:59)

Right.

B (84:59)

So that could get it a nomination of like, oh, look how adaptable they were able to make all of this music. I also have Floyd Collins in last five years is Unclear because last five Years is technically speaking, that orchestration is written for I think three or four pieces. So I don't know if they're going to keep that or if they're going to expand to like 8 or 9.

A (85:16)

Right.

B (85:16)

Which could get it a nice nomination. Could get JRB another nomination.

A (85:20)

There you go.

B (85:21)

And then Floyd Collins. I'm going to imagine the Floyd Collins is going to use the same orchestrations as before. So they will probably be ineligible. But you never know.

A (85:28)

Right.

B (85:29)

It's ghetto people like Gettle.

A (85:31)

Yeah. I mean. Yeah. I think everything here is too early to call.

B (85:35)

It is. But I am gonna. I'm going to put chips down for Dead Outlaw, maybe Happy Ending and Buena Vista Social Club. Right now.

A (85:44)

That's fair. I would say Dead Outlaw, maybe Happy Ending. I'm gonna take your word on Buena Vista Social Club and I'm gonna say Pirates. Sure. If it's. If it sl. If it slaps. Yeah. Interesting to say Mincemeat. He didn't mention that.

B (85:58)

I think the score of Mincemeat is the least interesting thing about it. And I don't think the orchestrations help.

A (86:03)

Sure. Again, haven't seen it, so I'll take your word for it.

B (86:05)

But also, like, you'll probably see it and be like, matt, you're crazy. This show slaps because so many people I know really enjoy it, but I just. I felt like I was in a madhouse. Okay, so that's it on orchestrations. Let us take another break. Billy, I beg to differ with you. How do you mean? You're the top.

A (86:21)

Yeah. You're an arrow collar.

B (86:24)

You're the top.

A (86:27)

You're a Coolidge dollar.

B (86:29)

You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire. And we're back. Okay, let's do a big one here. Let us do. It's been a minute since we've done an acting. Let's do featured actress in a musical. Jeez.

A (86:47)

Okay.

B (86:47)

I know now, as I said, in our reality, in this world, Jennifer Simard and Helen J. Shen have been successfully petitioned for featured actress in a musical. Come a month from now, I am sure I'll be eating those words, but let's just say that that's the case. I'm not going through all of the contenders we have because it is a million. But I did my best to include on this list everyone who I think has a sizable enough role or sizable enough presence that them being in this show, in their show, would get the attention of people. So with that in mind, and also. Oh, also, I'm going to say in this world, Natalie Venetia Belcon has been campaigned as Buena Vista Social Club's featured actress in a musical. So I'm going to say my five right now are Jennifer Simard for Death Becomes Her. Helen J. Shen for maybe Happy Ending. Natalie Venetia Velcone for Buena Vista Social Club, Joy woods for Gypsy, Jinx Monsoon, Hell yeah, Pirates. And then I sort of have her on a bubble just based off of all of the word of mouth I've gotten from London. Lea Salonga for Old Friends. Because from what I understand, she gets, like, some of the big stuff. She gets. Everything's coming up roses. She gets Mrs. Lovett and Sweeney Todd, and she apparently nails it.

A (88:07)

I'm sure she does. Yeah.

B (88:08)

And it would be her first Tony nomination since Miss Saigon in 1990. Oh, wow.

A (88:12)

Yeah. I mean, you convinced me there and then. So you didn't say anyone from Mincemeat?

B (88:17)

I didn't say anyone from Mincemeat. I think that the person. So there. There are a couple of people who I also think are on the bubble, just based off of energy, based off of previous credits. So Grace Hodgett Young, who plays Betty in Sunset Boulevard, she was nominated for the Olivier. She's technically speaking, a contender. Sunset Boulevard is very much a cultural hit right now. It is selling well. People are talking about it. And if, like Sunset Boulevard does well with nominations, she absolutely could get swept up in it. Betty, it for me is just. Has always been the dud role in that show.

A (88:52)

Yeah.

B (88:54)

Ironically, if Judy Kuhn had come to Broadway with it, she probably would have won the Tony. But it's just such a dud role. I also have other people who could get in there. Sway Han, who's the girl from Operation Mincemeat?

A (89:06)

You have Natasha Hodgson.

B (89:09)

No, that's. That's. Oh, yeah. Natasha Hodgson. If she's not considered lead, as she's considered featured. Oh. Zoe Roberts is the one who got nominated for featured actress for Mincemeat in London.

A (89:21)

Got it. I.

B (89:22)

My hot take is, I think, because there's so much competition in leading actress, first of all, as well as featured, I think that there's one role in particular in Mincemeat that will probably get nominated and it's going to be the, like, Nicky M. James nomination, where it's like, this is the nomination for the ensemble.

A (89:42)

Right.

B (89:42)

Like the Jen Colella and come from Wave. Like you are representing.

A (89:45)

I see, Right. Because you can't get everyone in there unless it's Hamilton, in which case you get the three featured actors in there and they're like, yeah, but, you know, we'll see.

B (89:51)

And the two leading actors. But like.

A (89:53)

Yeah.

B (89:53)

Hamilton is something that comes around so rarely.

A (89:56)

Yes. The one that I'm. I don't know who's taking it, but from the Smash workshop, the Bonnie Milligan role. From that workshop, the Bonnie Milligan role. The stage manager.

B (90:07)

Oh, Bella Coppola.

A (90:08)

Yeah. Yes. So that's who's playing it. Yes, as he's playing it. That was kind of the scene. Steely role. Right.

B (90:16)

That's what I hear.

A (90:17)

And so again, we'll have to see how Smash kind of fares. But that's also a contender I would throw in there. Yeah. Jinx Monsoon is. I think. I really hope she gets in there. And I guess, I mean, she's playing.

B (90:31)

Ruth, which is a. That's a fucking scenery eating role.

A (90:36)

Yes. And yeah. Yes. I think Lizzie McAlpine. McAlpine. I know she's a famous person that I. But I'm not culturally adept, so Neither am I. I mean, that's another role that could be in there. It's not a very showy role from my understanding, but.

B (90:50)

No, but it's like an emotional role.

A (90:51)

Yes.

B (90:52)

Yeah, there are plenty here. First of all, I also want to say I did not mention any of the wives from Wonderful World, which is not my liking because I. I think those women are the show.

A (91:05)

Yes.

B (91:06)

Particularly d' Alisia Circe and Jenny Harney Fleming are my two favorites in that.

A (91:12)

Yes.

B (91:13)

Those. That's the second and fourth wives. Specifically. They, like, I thought that they were absolute fire and I would nominate them in a heartbeat, but I'm going off of.

A (91:22)

It'll be tough for them.

B (91:23)

Yeah, it's gonna be tough.

A (91:24)

Darlesia Circe especially. Someone needs to put her in a leading role in a slam dunk musical because she is so talented. She was in Next to Normal. I saw a production of her where she was Diana next to Normal and she was incredible.

B (91:40)

That sounds amazing. Okay, My hot take. Audra's gonna not gonna be able to do eight shows a week pretty soon just because that role is a fucking monster. Yes.

A (91:49)

Yeah.

B (91:50)

I say Wonderful World. I don't think Wonderful World is making it past February. Get Darlesia to be Audra's alternate. Have her do the Wednesday matinee. Have her do the Saturday matinee. I will be there with fucking bells on.

A (92:03)

Exactly. Yeah.

B (92:04)

My God, that woman sings me to religion. That is what she does.

A (92:09)

Well, I'm here for the, you know, the theater community. Rallying behind the understudies. Right. Happening with. I mean, who's also on this list but Caroline Bowman in Sunset Boulevard. Her show is. She's going on as Norma.

B (92:21)

I feel like two days from today.

A (92:22)

Yeah. And it's selling very well because I think a lot of the theater kids are like, oh, I want to go see her in it. Yeah.

B (92:27)

Because it's her. As far as we know, it's her only time where she's gonna get Right.

A (92:31)

She has to leave for Smash soon. Yeah.

B (92:33)

And yeah, she's got. She's got a following, but also. Yeah, she's been in the community. She's been. She was on the road with Frozen. She did the Evita tour. I think she was in Kinky Boots on Broadway. Like, people know her, people love her. She's so talented. It's a chance for her to like, take center stage on Broadway.

A (92:48)

Yeah.

B (92:49)

Yeah, it's. I think it's a sold out performance. Yeah, I know.

A (92:52)

Yes. As far as the feature actresses go, though, I think you're right about if they actually do Get Jen Simard and Helen J. Shen into featured actress. I think they're pretty solid.

B (93:00)

Yeah, they are absolutely locked in. And as far as I'm concerned, the category is over. Because Jennifer is going to win.

A (93:05)

Yes. I mean, I mean, unless again, like there's some huge surprise like, because Jinx Monsoon could come in and steal the show probably now. Right.

B (93:12)

I think the thing about Jinx. Sorry to interrupt you, but the problem with Jinx, like quote unquote winning over Jen is that like, even if Pirates is really good and Jinx is like the fucking heartbeat of it, which she absolutely could be, Pirates is not going to be an open ended run. Even if it's successful, they might extend it into like the middle of the summer.

A (93:31)

Right.

B (93:31)

Death Becomes her is going to keep running and it's especially, it is an investment in and leveling Jennifer up to becoming a Broadway leading lady star. Because everything is sort of built up to this for her.

A (93:44)

Right.

B (93:44)

Like we have Disaster, which was finally like someone gave Jennifer Simard 20 minutes alone on stage.

A (93:49)

Right.

B (93:49)

She got that Tony nomination.

A (93:51)

Right.

B (93:51)

And then hello, Dolly was sort of like, she needs the equity points and it's the equity weeks and it's fine.

A (93:56)

Right.

B (93:56)

And it's also a big hit. So like, yeah, it's all good. But then she gets to do Company where she once again like steals the spotlight, doesn't win because you, you're not going to beat ladies who lunch. But everyone was sort of like, that was a year where everyone kind of went, if I had my way, I would have vote for Jennifer Samarth, which is no qualms to Patty. Just that's what people were saying. It's how much Jennifer's beloved.

A (94:15)

Right. And she was understudying Patty at the time too. She sure was.

B (94:18)

And when she went on, people lost their shit. And then we have Death Becomes her where it's like, okay, Jennifer is above the title. She has a major role. She looks like sex. She sounds amazing. She's hysterical. Like, this is gonna level her up. So if she gets, if they successfully get her in featured, she's absolutely getting nominated and I am gonna put money on her winning. Yeah, I would love it, I would love it if Jinx slapped in Pirates. My mom is, my mom is so excited for Pirates. She texted me today. She didn't realize Jinx was in it. And she was like, she's like, it opens four days for my birthday. We're going. My mom, my mom loves Jinx Monsoon.

A (94:52)

Yeah. But so I think it's an interesting category Right. And then there's a lot of other things that we just don't know. But. Yeah.

B (94:57)

Well, so from what I understand about Carolyn Bowman's character in Smash, because she's playing Karen, but Karen is very different now in Smash.

A (95:02)

Yeah. I don't know how much they've changed from the workshop. Right. To coat. But the featured actress kind of track, I would say was that Bonnie Milligan stage manager role. Right.

B (95:11)

Which is not Bella Coppola.

A (95:12)

Yeah. And so I would imagine, like, you know, a lot of these. A lot of shows. Right. Especially with these featured categories. Unless there's kind of clear front runners, I feel like most people, like, go in on, like, okay, this is the featured role that we're going to try to get a Tony nomination.

B (95:27)

Right, Exactly.

A (95:28)

So I don't know. That's how I think. Yeah.

B (95:29)

Because, I mean, listen, I have said, you know, Jordan Tyson and Melinda hall are the two from Gypsy who I found the most exciting. Melinda's not getting nominated. That there's no way in hell anyone can get nominated for that track. Jordan could if a lot of these musicals end up underwhelming. But I just think, you know, Louise is the role that people nominate. It has always been nominated. And I think it's not going to necessarily stop with Joy. Everything I said about Jennifer is also true about Joy in terms of, like, she's well liked. Her star is on the rise. Whether you like her performance or not, it is like the next role in Gypsy after Rose.

A (96:07)

Yes. Yeah.

B (96:10)

I don't think that Joy is a lock here. I think that she is a very probable nomination.

A (96:17)

That's fine.

B (96:18)

Again, if a lot of things are up in play right now, we're going down a portal where, like, a lot of these women may be put into lead.

A (96:27)

So we'll see.

B (96:28)

And if that happens, then I have to bring David back to just, like, do a three hour episode of like. Okay, now who's gonna be in leading actors in the musical?

A (96:34)

Well, I do think as a side note, a really interesting episode could be once nominations or even wins come out, we come back and revisit this and we say where we went wrong and why we went wrong. Sure, sure, sure.

B (96:43)

I mean, they also just announced.

A (96:43)

Post mortem.

B (96:44)

They also just announced Erica Henningson is playing Sandra Dee in Just In Time.

A (96:49)

Oh, good for her.

B (96:50)

Yeah. Again, I don't. But I also, like, I have Michelle Paak in here as a possibility for Just In Time. I know nothing about her role. I know nothing about the show. I just know, like, you don't bet against Michelle Pac.

A (96:59)

Sure.

B (96:59)

Okay. Let's do another one. Let's do.

A (97:02)

We don't have the featured actor.

B (97:04)

No, we're, we're, we're. We just cracked featured. Let's do featured after in a play. Oh, we haven't done feature actor musical yet.

A (97:12)

I thought we just feature actress, don't play. Ready? Okay.

B (97:14)

Just kidding. We did leading actress in a play.

A (97:16)

Featured actor in a play. Let's see here. So. Sorry.

B (97:23)

Okay, I got it. I got it.

A (97:25)

Okay.

B (97:25)

Feature actor in a play. I'm gonna go with Kieran Culkin and Bob Odenkirk for Glengarry Glen Ross. They are playing the roles that always get nominated. Kieran is playing the role that usually wins. I'm gonna say Conrad Rickamora for o'. Mary. Also going to say James Scully for Omari and then Francis Chu for Yellowface. Now, if Glengarry Glen Ross ends up being mid, I think Bob Odenkirk could get kicked out. I think if the Tony nominators aren't going to be so jizz happy for Omari and want to maybe spread the wealth, I think that's where James Scully kind of falls away and Conrad Rick Amora stays. There are possibilities for, I would say a gentleman from purpose, like a John Michael Hill or Glen Davis. We still don't know anything about. Goodnight and good luck. There could be a supporting actor nomination in that Andrew Burnap is playing Cassio and Othello and that could be a prominent performance. Zachary Quinto or Christopher Lowell in Cult of Love or Bill Ehrman in Eureka Day. As of right now, I'm gonna stick with my five of Kieran, Bob, Conrad, James and Francis.

A (98:40)

Yeah. Also the Stranger Things boys.

B (98:43)

Sure.

A (98:43)

I don't know. I don't know. Again, I don't know much about here. This is always gonna be a Too early to call. I think you're right about Kieran and Bob. Assuming that that's a good revival. If it's not a good revival, then we could be looking at a different story.

B (98:54)

I mean, we had. Yeah, we had that last revival with Pacino that was terrible and got nothing. But I think it just has to be decent.

A (99:03)

Right?

B (99:03)

It just has to be decent.

A (99:05)

And I hear you. I think Conrad Rickamura is also one that. I think people like him. I think that if you're gonna put someone other than Cole into a nomination, that's probably the role. He'll have left the production by that point. I don't think it'll have.

B (99:18)

They all will have Actually, I think Bianca Lee might be the only one who's still in it when the nominations come out.

A (99:23)

Yes.

B (99:23)

Well, unless they come back for nominations, which they might.

A (99:26)

Yeah. I mean, but I think. But I don't think that really matters with Omari, because it's like everybody saw it off Broadway, everyone saw it again on Broadway, so they've seen it twice now. So they know who's who, I think. Yeah. And then. Good night, good luck. Question mark. Purpose. Question mark. And then I also. I have a question mark also around Bill Irwin and Eureka Day. He was really, really good in that. I think he has a really likable character. I think he. He kind of has, I feel like the biggest male role of them all. I mean, I don't know if biggest is the right term, because the other one also is really big.

B (100:00)

But it's a very impressionable role.

A (100:02)

Yes.

B (100:03)

More so than the Tom Middleditch role, for sure.

A (100:05)

Yeah. And I think he also is kind of leading that one iconic scene, the Zoom town hall scene. So I think that's a really helpful thing. Cult of Love, what's his name? Zach Quinto has a lot in there. I don't know if it's gonna be like that.

B (100:21)

Memorable, but similar to Jim Parsons and Daniel Radcliffe. Zachary Quinso has been on Broadway a couple of times and has yet to break through for a nomination. And I don't know if Cult of Love is gonna be the one to do it, incidentally. It's the performance of his I've liked the most since he started coming to Broadway. But, yeah, I think because Chris Lowell is playing the most hateful male character in that show. And then Zachary Quinto is definitely playing, like, the most understandable. But I also. That's a show where I think that it really belongs to the women.

A (100:55)

Chris Lowell is the.

B (100:56)

He plays Shailene Woodley's husband.

A (100:58)

So. And so you don't have the. Oh, the brother, the grandfather.

B (101:01)

Oh, I don't have. I don't have the grandfather or the brother who is the grandfather, because the grandpa.

A (101:06)

I mean, that's also. Really, well, a good performance.

B (101:09)

It is. It's just he usually for. So featured actors in plays and feature actors in plays, they usually have to have a moment that pops off, which is ironic because we'll talk about this with featured actor and musical in a second. It's not always the case with featured actor. Usually in plays, the featured performers need to have one big moment, whether it's a monologue or it's a major scene, to get Recognized, especially if they're gonna win. And the grandfather in Cult of Love doesn't really have that. Or say the dad, because he's the dad. There are no kids on stage. It's just. It's the grown up kids. Like Zachary Quinto has a moment where.

A (101:52)

He cries the end.

B (101:53)

And Chris Lowell has a moment where he cries. Bill Irwin has the town hall scene.

A (101:58)

Yeah.

B (101:59)

And so. And like Francis Jew has like the third act of Yellowface belongs to Francis Chu.

A (102:05)

Yeah. And.

B (102:05)

And also somebody who's like, very well liked and is getting his flowers, which people really enjoy. And I think with O Mary, you know, Conrad is just. I think Conrad, his nomination was pretty much set in stone when that show blew off, you know, the island of Manhattan. And then James Scully, I think, has a chance a. Because that show is such a big hit and it could be just sort of like the avalanche of nominations.

A (102:27)

Right.

B (102:28)

But the third act twist of his character, I think puts a lot of his performance into perspective for people.

A (102:33)

Yeah.

B (102:34)

And that's very impressive because up until that twist, you're like, I don't understand why this character is staying in the room.

A (102:40)

Right, right. Well, the whole point of that show though is like, who needs to understand anything?

B (102:44)

Sure, sure, sure. But like, you can only go so far when Mary is saying and doing all the things that she's saying.

A (102:50)

Yes. I still do have so many people I'd love to have seen play Mary. Like I. My wish list of that is so long.

B (102:57)

Oh, same.

A (102:58)

I want Sofia Vergara in it so badly. That was, that was like my. That was my one that I was like, no, this is who they should put in. But anyways, that'd be fun.

B (103:05)

I like to have a lot.

A (103:06)

But yes, feature action to play too early, too calm, too early.

B (103:09)

But I'm. I'm gonna. I am gonna confidently say that. Five for now.

A (103:13)

Cool.

B (103:14)

Featured actor in a musical. So, okay, here's what I was. Here's what I'm say about this. Featured featured actor and actress in a musical. It's usually one of two things. It's either a character that sets a vibe for the majority of the show, even if they don't necessarily have like a show stopping moment, or it is a character that has a major show stopping moment. Think of Patti LuPone and company with the ladies who lunch, Benanti and Gypsy with the Strip. Or like Bonnie Milligan in Kimberly Kimball. Like, comes in, rocks the place with better, and then sort of sets the tone for the rest of the show. Or Lauren Patton for Jagged Little pill. Yeah. With, you know, you ought to know. And then, you know, sometimes it happens with featured actors. Sometimes you have a James Monroe Iglehart doing the Ten Minute Friend like Me. But then you have something where it's like Brad Oscar in Something Rotten doing. It's a musical versus Christian Borrell, who wins. Borrell is more like coming on stage, setting a vibe and then like going off stage. Whereas Brad Oscar comes on stage, has the one big song that you remember, but then doesn't really have anything else after that.

A (104:15)

Right.

B (104:16)

And usually featured after a musical. It is about setting a vibe more than it is about stopping the show.

A (104:22)

Right.

B (104:23)

Which is why someone like Danny Burstein as Herbie is probably gonna get nominated in addition to us all liking him, but like his nominations in this category in the past, Cabaret, Moulin Rouge, those were roles that set a vibe less than like, stopping the show.

A (104:39)

Yeah. I mean, the Cabaret role also is just always nominated, but actually, yes, you're right.

B (104:43)

Herr Schultz always does get nominated.

A (104:44)

Yeah. Well, so. And Herbie has always been considered featured.

B (104:49)

Always.

A (104:49)

So they've never tried to make Herbie lead.

B (104:50)

You can't.

A (104:51)

Yeah. I mean, you can't. But, you know, you also, you know, can't make certain shows revivals. And here they are campaigning for it as a revival.

B (104:57)

I said this before. I describe a revival the same way that the Supreme Court defined pornography. I can't give you a definition. I just know it when I see it.

A (105:07)

There you go, bringing up the Supreme Court again.

B (105:08)

I know, I'm so political.

A (105:10)

So with featured actor in a musical, this is who I'll call out. I think Danny Burstein, you're right, as Herbie, I think you'll agree with me on this one. But Michael Urie in Once Upon a.

B (105:20)

Mattress, I really hope so.

A (105:21)

I think he is so good in that show. He's so funny. He played the character so authentically. Also a really, really nice guy. I think people like him.

B (105:28)

And also hasn't been nominated yet. Like, we're. He's due for a nomination.

A (105:32)

Yes. I'm gonna say David Hyde Pierce, if they put him in featured, because he has Modern Major General. Right. Yes. And so.

B (105:39)

So that.

A (105:40)

That is giving like featured because that's like a show stopping number. People know it.

B (105:44)

It's hard.

A (105:45)

Right. Trying to think who else here I would put there if there's anyone else that you see.

B (105:50)

So, yeah, this is where things get a little odd because a lot of the people who I think are gonna come to play haven't performed yet. And so I'm going off of what I have been told, maybe so like Tom Sesma in Dead Outlaw. I saw Dead Outlaw. He is absolutely like, in my opinion, like the performance of that show. And it is absolutely a featured performance and actually does have a show stopping number. He is the comedic relief of the show and he's super well liked. And so this is a nice moment for him to sort of break through. I would love it if Michael Urie got nominated. I currently have him sort of as a probable, not a lock. Because Once Upon a Mattress will have been such old news by that point.

A (106:31)

Right.

B (106:32)

But it could be one of those things of, oh, we did enjoy that. And he was so delightful in it. I thought he was. When it transferred to Broadway and Harriet Harris was no longer in the show, he became the MVP of the production. For me, I think David Thaxton for Sunset Boulevard is pretty much a lock. He was Olivier nominated. He. I, you know, it's a. That role won the Tony for George Hearn in the 90s. Danny Burstyn, I think, is Locke. Something I've been told from a couple of people who did the workshop of Floyd Collins and may or may not be doing it on Broadway. Two different people said to me, watch out for Taylor Trench and Floyd Collins.

A (107:08)

Sure.

B (107:08)

I don't know. I don't remember much about the role he's playing, but they were like, I. They said to me, like, when I tell you that he pwns, he pwns. So that was exciting. I think Jason Coute also could be a possibility for Floyd Collins. He plays the brother. So he does Riddle Song with Jeremy Jordan. And like, that is the song of the show. I mean, that's famously one of the songs of Sondheim was like, I wish I wrote it.

A (107:31)

Right. And you.

B (107:32)

Sorry, no, no. I would say David Thaxton and Danny Burstein. I'm gonna put money down and then I'm gonna say watch out for Tom Sesma and Dead Outlaw. Michael Urie for Once Upon a Mattress, Taylor Trench or Jason Cote for Floyd Collins. Pirates is the question mark, because the modern Major General, it did when it was on Broadway in the 80s. George Rose was nominated for leading actor in that. I'm pretty sure, even though it is ultimately a featured role, he doesn't show up until the end of act one. Pirate King, I think you could argue, is a leading role. So I'm not going to say Ramin, even though, who knows? Like Frederick, which is Nicholas Barish, is ultimately the male lead of that show. But Frederick is not as exciting as the major general or as the pirate King. So, yeah, I mean, if. If Pierce is put in. Featured.

A (108:33)

Yeah.

B (108:33)

I think he is a major player here.

A (108:36)

Right. And so you don't think any of the Death Becomes her guys?

B (108:43)

Well, it's just Chris Sieber and I guess the. The. The servant was his name. He has the. The video series on his Instagram. Oh, it's Josh. Because it's Josh.

A (108:58)

Oh, yes.

B (109:00)

He's very good. I don't think that's very funny. Yeah, I don't think they're gonna get nominated because Death becomes Her isn't about the men. It's about the woman.

A (109:05)

Yeah. I also feel like maybe this is just like.

B (109:07)

Oh, wait, no, sorry, I forgot. No, this is the. This is the category where I think Operation Mincemeat gets their Jen Colella, Nikki M. James nomination, which is Jack Malone in Operation Mincemeat.

A (109:17)

He.

B (109:18)

He has the best song in the show, which is like. I forget the actual name of it. It's like a Dear John letter. And it's. The song is ultimately, in my opinion, two minutes too long. But it is a lovely song. And he did win the Olivier in London.

A (109:32)

Okay. So, yeah, the other one I've heard. I feel like I heard good things about was Eric Bergen, stage Door Manor alum in Boop from. I. I heard good things about him from Chicago.

B (109:40)

I heard it was good. I heard. I heard both he and Faith Prince's parts were kind of superfluous, is the problem.

A (109:44)

Interesting. But yeah, maybe I'm just biased from where I'm getting my news sources. Is it Fox News?

B (109:51)

Connie on Fox News?

A (109:52)

Yeah. Yeah. Fox News is. Is really pushing Eric Bergen and Boot. No. So I think you got what you said. You said Danny Burstein. You said Jack Malone.

B (110:01)

David.

A (110:02)

David Thaxton. And then you have.

B (110:05)

I mean. And then I would say probably be Tom Sesma for Dead Outlaw. And then, I mean, I again, I would love to Michael Urie for Once Upon a Mattress, but there's so. There's still so much coming. Like Jason Gauthay and Taylor Trench and Floyd Collins coming in.

A (110:19)

Also Gavin Lee, old friends. I don't know what. What, like tracks he has.

B (110:22)

I don't know either. I just know people like him. It would be his third nomination at this point.

A (110:26)

Yeah.

B (110:27)

So who's to say? But also, I mean, what's the other one looking at David. We also said David Hyde Pierce, maybe for Pirates. Someone from Buena Vista Social Club. Maybe one of the trees in Redwood.

A (110:41)

Yeah, someone from Redwood.

B (110:43)

Redwood is weirdly becoming like the Punchline. And it may be wonderful. It's just such a. Idina, Menzel and trees.

A (110:51)

Yeah. Again, I have no idea what that show's about other than a Manzel and that you can get it for two for one for Broadway week, so.

B (110:57)

You sure can.

A (110:57)

There you go.

B (110:58)

Come down from the tree. Oh, I also meant to say this. For featured actress in a musical, there's an actress in Real Women have Curves. I want to say it's Justina Machado. She was nominated for the art production. Was the only one in the cast who was. So that was just something that I made a note of. Nominated for, like, featured actress in a musical for the art production. Oh, like what award? Yeah, the Elliot Norton.

A (111:24)

Oh, okay. Got it. Good for her. Yeah.

B (111:27)

But, like, I just. I. I noted that she was the only one in the cast who was, and so when.

A (111:31)

Oh, okay.

B (111:31)

That's something to think about. Maybe it's a prime role and maybe she's very good in it.

A (111:34)

Right.

B (111:35)

Okay. So we have featured actor in a play, musical done. Featured actress in a musical done. We haven't done featured actress in a play.

A (111:42)

Is that not what we said? I said, oh, we put Carrie Young in lead. We did it. Well, yes.

B (111:47)

Well, that was us saying, if she's in lead, she's getting nominated. If she's in feature, she's getting nominated. Because Carrie Young does what? She gets nominated.

A (111:53)

Yes. Okay, so featured actress in a play. Let's see here. So, I mean, do you want to start? You want me to start?

B (112:01)

There is absolutely not a single lock in this category as far as I'm concerned, because there is so much competition coming from left, right, top, bottom. Bianca Lee in oh, Mary could again get swept up in the avalanche. I don't think the role is terribly impressive enough.

A (112:20)

But she's so funny in it for some reason.

B (112:23)

She is very funny. She, for me, is the example of, like, the roommate is for me. Patti LuPone's character exists for Mia Farrow to react off of in the first half, and then she reacts off of Mia Farrow in the second half. Bianca Lee pretty much exists for Cola Scola's Mary to be insane off of, but Bianca does a really phenomenal job with it. And the ice cream speech is very memorable.

A (112:49)

Right.

B (112:51)

I think of everyone who could get nominated for Omari, Bianca is the one who is the most vulnerable.

A (112:57)

Interesting.

B (112:58)

I think that the three sisters in Hills of California, they could all get in or they could all cancel each other out.

A (113:05)

Yeah, they kind of blend. Like, you know, I'm trying To remember which one had the biggest standout moment.

B (113:10)

And maybe the Helena Wilson, I think, is the youngest one in the glasses.

A (113:14)

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

B (113:15)

Yeah. She's the one who probably is the most, like, major supporting for me. But they all have a moment.

A (113:22)

Yeah. And they're excellent.

B (113:23)

Yeah. Ophelia Lovibond is the one who plays like, she's, she kind of grows up and plays so. Because it's. Ruby is so. Ophelia Levybond, I think, plays Ruby, who is the. She grows to be a little sexier, but also, like, is prone to panic attacks.

A (113:36)

Right.

B (113:37)

Laura McDonald, I think, is Gloria. Gloria. And she's super vicious and hateful. And then Helena Wilson is the youngest one. I'm already forgetting her name right now, but she's the heart of that show. And there's a world in which none of them get in. And there's a world in which all of them get in. If you had to put a gun to my head, I would say Helena is the one who would be the most likely, along with Bianca. I think Amber Gray has a really good shot. If Jessica Hecht ends up being in featured, then Jessica Hecht gets in. But I'm going with a world where Jessica Hecht is considered lead.

A (114:10)

Sure. That's what I was gonna say. If Jessica Hecht is in feature, I think she's. She is pretty solid. If I was the producer, I mean, it's not. There's no producers because it's a nonprofit, but I would campaign for her to be featured because I think that she has a better shot here, at least the way it's looking right now. I think there's so many question marks. Right. I think you've got.

B (114:28)

Oh, sorry, I made that up. Leanne Best is the one who plays Gloria, the hateful sister. I think Laura McDonald plays younger Joan, which is younger Laura Dunnell.

A (114:36)

Oh, yes.

B (114:37)

I don't think she's gonna get in, but of the younger girls, she's the, the most prominent.

A (114:41)

Yeah.

B (114:41)

Sorry, I, I, My mistake, everybody.

A (114:43)

I think, again, carry on purpose. Sure. We don't know anything about that show. Good night, Good luck. I don't know if it has any featured actresses in that, but, you know, could. Good night.

B (114:54)

Good luck. Hates women.

A (114:55)

Othello, you have Molly Osborne, who's playing Desmona. Yeah. So, I mean, that one's. Again, that production slaps. Then that one could get. Or she could get in.

B (115:03)

She gets. Yeah, she gets in there.

A (115:06)

Yeah.

B (115:06)

I also think that Cult of Love is going to be Interesting, because as I said earlier, I think that show really belongs to the female characters. But again, it's like, who does it best for you? For me, Molly Bernard is the one who walks away with that show.

A (115:21)

Loved her performance in that.

B (115:22)

She was so fucking good. And I would love it if she got nominated similar to the Hills of California Girls. It could be just a problem of she gets like, nine. Nominators are like, she's my favorite. And then ten go. But I love Mayor and Mary.

A (115:41)

Right.

B (115:42)

Because also, like, Shailene Woodley, I thought, did a really phenomenal job in that show. I think Barbie Ferreira does a really good job with a small part. She's not gonna get nominated, but, you know, stuff like that. The women of McNeil are all solid. What is a nothing burger of a play? Melora Hardin does a really good job with. With a nothing role. Yeah, I'm gonna. Let's say that since we're going down the trajectory that Hecht is in lead, we're also going down the trajectory. Are we gonna stick with the trajectory that Carrie Young is lead of purpose, knowing absolutely nothing about it?

A (116:13)

Sure, sure. Yeah.

B (116:14)

Then I'll say latonya Richardson. Jackson for purpose.

A (116:17)

Great. I loved her performance in that.

B (116:19)

Oh, my God. It's riveting. And then, I don't know, maybe there's like, some Gen Zer and John Proctor Doctor is the villain that really just pops off.

A (116:25)

Says, maybe. Maybe you never know.

B (116:27)

You never know, you never know. Or whoever plays the Lauren Ward part in Stranger Things. It's.

A (116:31)

Yeah, there's also that show.

B (116:32)

This really is the category. I'm like, it is simply far too soon to tell.

A (116:35)

That's always the thing with featured, though, right? It's. It's always. You just. You never know. So. All right.

B (116:41)

What a nothing burger of a. Of a prediction. Okay, let's do choreography. And then we'll get to the last big dogs, which are the big four. Score book and leading actor in a musical.

A (116:51)

Did we. We haven't done score book. Leading actor in a musical.

B (116:54)

We haven't done those yet. And then the top four.

A (116:56)

I see.

B (116:57)

Okay, so we'll. We'll knock those seven out after we do choreography and take one last break. Okay, choreography. I will actually list off all of the possible contenders we have here, which are A Wonderful World, Boop. Buena Vista Social Club, Death Becomes Her Elf, Gypsy, Once Upon a Mattress, Old Friends, Operation Mincemeat Pirates, Real Women have Curves, Redwood Smash, Sunset Boulevard, Swept Away, and Tammy Faye. Of all of these contenders, we have Buena Vista Social Club, which is co choreographed by Justin Peck, who, despite what I think of his work in Carousel and the west side Story movie, he has now done two Broadway shows and has won for both of them. So I. He may not win for this, but I do think he'll get nominated just because. Similar to Carrie Young, Justin Peck can't stop getting nominated for his Broadway work. He's choreographing it with Patricia Delgado. Oh. Sahim Ali is the director of Buena Vista Social Club who did Fat Ham.

A (117:59)

Yes. And he's doing Goddess at the Public. He sure is. So. And he's. Yeah, people love him. Yeah.

B (118:04)

Well, he was. Wasn't he supposed to do Wild Party at Encores?

A (118:07)

Yes, yes, yes. Sure.

B (118:09)

Or was it Robert o'? Hara? No, I think it was Sahima Lee was supposed to do Wild Party.

A (118:12)

Yeah.

B (118:13)

Fascinating. Okay. But so. Yeah, good, good, good team. So, yeah, it's Patricia Delgado and Justin Peck. Justin can't stop getting nominated, so I'm gonna say him.

A (118:22)

Sure.

B (118:24)

Again. Jerry Mitchell, when it comes to choreography, usually can't help but get nominated, so I'm gonna say boop. Stroman can't help but get nominated, so I'm gonna say Smash.

A (118:33)

Sure. Yeah.

B (118:35)

And then we have two more. Death becomes Death becomes her. Which is an option. I'm gonna. I'm. Okay, so I'm gonna say Pirates.

A (118:44)

Love it.

B (118:44)

I'm loving all these swings I'm taking for Pirates today.

A (118:47)

No. Why not? I mean, I'm telling you, I will be so happy if either Pirates or Floyd Collins. Absolutely. Slap. Because I think it'll be such a fun thing to have, like the sort of, like, everyone thinks Gypsy versus Sunset, and I'm like, no, let's throw something else in there. Let's last five years, see if that's amazing.

B (119:03)

If best revival of a musical ends up being such a free for all. After last year where it was like. It was just merrily, merrily, merrily, right down the stream like that, for me, is so incredibly exciting.

A (119:14)

Yes.

B (119:14)

Yeah. Anyways, God, I hope Floyd Collins is great because I want one more thing to just throw that wrench in. But, yeah, I'm gonna throw that swing at Pirates. I'm also gonna go out there and say Wonderful World, which has a great deal of choreography. I am. I actually prefer the non tap choreography of Wonderful World, but I don't dislike the tap choreography. It's more just. I think the non tap choreography is much more impressive.

A (119:38)

That ensemble is working so hard in that show. They are doing costume changes there in every Single number. They are working their asses off.

B (119:45)

They really are. Also. The dancing, for me is the most heat that show provides. And a musical where the book is just the book. This choreography, I think, really provides.

A (119:56)

Yes.

B (119:57)

Attitude.

A (119:57)

It is great choreo.

B (119:58)

There's a possibility that Camille Brown gets in for Gypsy. I think that there's. I don't know. I just. I don't know. I don't. My feelings on her choreography aside, I just think that there's. There are other options out there.

A (120:14)

Yeah. I mean, that'll be a test to see, you know, really how well Gypsy performs. Right. If people are coming in with Gypsy Love, then, yeah, that could get in. She's also obviously very well liked. She really is one. You didn't mention Sunset Boulevard. I know you're gonna. You probably don't like the choreography for it, if I'm correct about this.

B (120:29)

Sometimes I don't like it. I was just sort of met on it. I mean, sure, I. I preferred the group numbers that didn't have choreography and were just. I mean, I don't know if this is Jamie Lloyd's direction or if it was actual choreography where there wasn't any actual real movement. It was just very brief pieces. Like every movie's a circus where there's. In that row in the chairs.

A (120:49)

Yes.

B (120:49)

And people pop up and up. I was like. I thought that was very well done.

A (120:52)

Right. And so, I mean, I think, though, that it will likely be remembered for its choreo. I think there's a lot there, I think. Yeah. So you said. I'm gonna say boop as well. Buena visa, social club. You made a convincing argument for me. Death Becomes her is a very choreo show. Smash as well. I think you're right about Stroh. And then probably between Sunset and Gypsy, if not both. I mean, old friends. There's no way. I mean, maybe it has some big choreo numbers, but I can't really think of why they would be.

B (121:24)

I really don't think it does.

A (121:25)

Unless they're just doing all of forum. Like, that's it.

B (121:28)

They're doing all of forum and passion.

A (121:31)

There you go. There you go. And then redwood. Who knows? Those trees could be spiraling. They could be.

B (121:36)

I think there's a lot of, like, fly choreo in that show.

A (121:39)

Is the thing like their, like, Spider man sort of moment?

B (121:41)

I don't know. I was looking.

A (121:43)

If Idina Menzel comes out into the audience a la Turn off the Dark, give it all the awards.

B (121:49)

Idina Menzel is Peter Pan. But I was going off the IBDB credit. Like, they have a movement fly person in the credits. I was like, okay, I guess there's like, fly Choreo.

A (121:59)

Literally. I don't know. Sure. Yeah. Great.

B (122:01)

Why the not. I would love it if Elf could get nominated for choreography. I really enjoyed the choreo.

A (122:07)

Yeah.

B (122:07)

But it's not gonna. Alas.

A (122:10)

Who knows? I mean, everybody had the same thoughts as you, though. Everybody said, like, when Elphis. No one thought about it, it was like, sure, it's coming to Broadway. Whatever. It's Christmas stint. No one's gonna see it. Then, you know, people started seeing it in its first few weeks, and everybody was like, is it bad that I loved this?

B (122:24)

Yeah.

A (122:24)

Like, that was literally the consensus across the board. So there's a solid chance that Tony. I mean, I don't think it's gonna get nominated, but, like, who knows, right? Like, people could have that mindset coming back to it.

B (122:34)

It would be really enjoy. I would really enjoy it because that's. It's the third time the show came to Broadway, and the first few times, everyone was sort of mid on it. And I don't know if people were. Changed their tune on the show itself, but something about this production. Maybe it was just the timing. Maybe it's because people came in with low expectations. But a lot of us walked out going. I thought they did a really good job with what they had. And, you know, it takes a lot to turn a molehill into a mountain. And that's what I felt Elf did in a lot of ways.

A (123:02)

Yes.

B (123:02)

And I want to give them their roses for that.

A (123:04)

Yes. And I also think Gray Henson is such a talented character comic. Like, he knows comedic timing so well. And you saw that in Mean Girls. You saw that in. Was that show shucked? Yeah. He just, like, can understand the conversation with the audience, like what they're finding funny, what they're not finding funny in a way that I don't think a lot of actors nowadays can do very well. Right. They think to themselves, this is funny. I'm being funny. And it's like, well, no one's laughing. Gray is so good about. Like, oh, this is funny. I'm reading the room here. I'm like, I'm really good at that interaction, but we'll get there.

B (123:33)

No, he has a very old school comedic sensibility. Because I've said this but before, I think the best comic performances are when you understand that the character cannot find the situation funny. It's got to be very real for the Character Gray does that while still kind of having this wink to the audience of I'm in on the joke and I don't hate it. I usually hate that. I don't know what it is about him. It's. Maybe it's like the timbre of his voice, the way he can sort of like toss off a one liner. But something about especially him in this, in Elf. It's just such perfect casting. He just fits it like a glove. And ultimately, at this moment in time is who I would vote for for lead actor in a musical. I genuinely hope he gets nominated for it.

A (124:16)

Yeah. I mean, there'll be a revival many years from now, but of him and La Cage, I'm sure, I'm sure he'll go somewhere like there. Right.

B (124:23)

He will be a wonderful Alban. When we get the moment where Gray Henson gets to have his mental breakdown on stage and we go, oh, my God. He also continues do drama.

A (124:30)

Right. Very much of a Demi Moore moment, which I know you're so happy about.

B (124:34)

But we can't talk about the substance, David. I. I can't go on too much about that. My God. Yes. I'm so happy she won.

A (124:41)

Yes. But. Yes. So maybe Demi Moore will win for best Choreo. I don't know.

B (124:46)

That woman knows how to move.

A (124:47)

She might.

B (124:48)

Okay, so I'm gonna say my locks right now are Boop, Buena Vista Social Club and Smash. And then Pirates and Wonderful World are my spaghetti at the wall with a possible sunset. Maybe. I don't know, it maybe even swept away death becomes her, I think is a more likely option though. Even though I. I would say the choreography was not the thing I walked away thinking about. But I would say they have a better shot at that over direction of a musical.

A (125:13)

Yeah.

B (125:13)

Chris Catelli also tends to just get nominated.

A (125:16)

Yeah.

B (125:16)

I say that like they don't do good work. It's more just like they do good work. They're known. Their names are now prominent in the dance community. I of Broadway. And so people think of them and they think, oh, yes, here's. Here's a choreography nomination.

A (125:27)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (125:28)

Okay. So that's that we will do lead actor of a musical. Book score musical play revivals after this break. Billy, I beg to differ with you. How do you mean? You're the top.

A (125:39)

Yeah. You're an arrow collar.

B (125:42)

You're the top.

A (125:45)

You're a coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the. The feet of.

B (125:55)

And we are back. So let's do book and score and then we'll get into lead actor of a musical. Shall we?

A (126:02)

Let's do it.

B (126:03)

Okay.

A (126:04)

Redwood for both. Great. So.

B (126:05)

And then jokes on you. Redwood doesn't have a score or a book. It's just Idina Menzel naming all the kinds of trees.

A (126:11)

Love it.

B (126:12)

Our options at the moment are Boop. Dead Outlaw, Death Becomes her, maybe Happy Ending, Operation Mincemeat. Real women have curves. Redwood and Tammy Faye. The question is, Smash, technically speaking, 95% of what's going to be on that stage was heard on the TV show. Will they be able to get eligibility anyway? Because technically speaking, the songs were written for the property. This is what got Tommy a score, nomination and eventual win. This is how Evita and Jesus Christ Superstar were able to get, you know, get nominated for score. The other question is plays like the Roommate or Stranger Things with their musical scores. I'm gonna say in a world where Smash is deemed ineligible and Stranger Things and the Roommate are eligible, but they're plays that ultimately means we have to get five. I'm saying maybe Happy Ending as our frontrunner, followed by Dead Outlaw, followed by Boop, because it's going to be a nice something some like a hot ish kind of score. Death Becomes her and Operation Mincemeat. Those are my five.

A (127:18)

Yeah, I agree with that. I think maybe Happy Ending, Dead Outlaw seems solid. Mincemeat. We'll talk about this with that musical. Depends on the reaction to that, but I think if it's good. Yeah. Boop. I would say so if a Dead Outlaw, Death Becomes her, maybe Happy Ending, Mincemeat. If Smash is eligible, I feel like Smash will get that last slot. Yeah. If not, then I could see it going to boop. Again, Know nothing about in this case, Real Men have Curves or Redwood. Right. If either one of them are great, then great. But Smash is gonna be really. I, I. When you're talking about how they're gonna campaign for it, I was like, oh, are they gonna campaign, saying, well, it was written for the theater, that this theater just happened to be on TV first.

B (128:00)

Yeah.

A (128:01)

Right. And like, I don't know. I don't know.

B (128:04)

Because it's not really jukebox. They are. The songs are being repurposed for the book, but they were written for a property called Smash. So it's one of those technicalities from, like, Will they Get Away with it?

A (128:16)

Right. And also it's very unique. Right. We don't have many. Oh, this was written for. I guess you could think you're right with Tommy maybe. Right. It's probably the best. Like the best.

B (128:25)

Yeah. Tommy, I think, was the last time people were able to get away with that. Because Tommy wasn't written to be a stage work. It was always an album that they repurposed. But that's. That is how Evita and Jesus Christ Superstar got by where they were. Like, we always meant for this to go to stage. This was just sort of how we were able to get public interest in it.

A (128:42)

Right. Because New York, New York was eligible.

B (128:45)

It was not.

A (128:45)

It was not eligible.

B (128:46)

I don't believe it was.

A (128:47)

But they tried to get it. They tried.

B (128:48)

Ultimately, it was decided that less than 50% of the score was new. And so. But that's the thing is this. Not every song in New York, New York was written for a property called New York, New York. I think they had a quiet thing in there. And that's from Flora the Red Menace. It was more like half of it was Kander and Ebb songs and half of it was new stuff.

A (129:08)

But they're saying all of those were Smash. Even though one of the songs was in Some Like It Hot.

B (129:13)

Well, some Like It Hot repurposed a song from Smash.

A (129:16)

Oh, let's be.

B (129:17)

Let's Be Bad is technically speaking from Smash.

A (129:19)

Okay, interesting. Well, so I say, okay, I think you're right about Dead Outlaw in maybe Happy Ending Mincemeat that's becomes her and then I'm say Boop or Smash. That last slot. Okr.

B (129:29)

I'm okay with all that. Best Buick. Our options are A Wonderful World.

A (129:35)

Boop.

B (129:36)

Buena Vista Social Club, Dead Outlaw. Death becomes her just in time. Maybe Happy Ending, Operation Mincemeat. Real Women have cures. Redwood Smash, Swept Away UNT Tammy Fay. Possible Pirates. It is a revised book by Rupert Holmes. If it's revised enough, it could be eligible a Lady Cinderella or Flower Drum song. You know, with these revisals. Because it's. We still don't. We don't know enough about Pirates. If it's truly a revival with some tweaks or if it's an actual revisal. Five picks for best book. I am going to say maybe Happy Ending Death becomes her. Operation Mincemeat, Dead Outlaw and Buena Vista Social Club with I'm gonna throw a curveball your way. Real women have curves. As a possible book nominee, it could be the Notebook nomination.

A (130:26)

Yeah, I mean, I think if. I would love. If let's say Boop is a funny. If it's a comedy, I think. I don't think it's a drama. Let me say that. But if it's really, really funny. Like, I would love for, like, a book that's just genuinely has good jokes in it to get nominated there. Right. So that's where something like, if Boop is really funny, you know, I would love that. I think you're right, though. It's, you know, maybe happy ending. Dead Outlaw. Probably Death becomes her because it adapts.

B (130:52)

The movie well and it is a funny book. People talk about the one liners of Death becomes her a lot. I think Death becomes her biggest problem is that it does start to disintegrate in the second act. But that's only really a problem if Boop and Smash pull on through and Real Women have Curves ends up being an outsider's kind of like, oh, shit, this is better than we thought it was going to be.

A (131:15)

Yeah. And same thing with Buenavista Social Club. I agree with that. Yeah.

B (131:19)

Or like, yeah, Bio Jukebox musicals, like, Just in Time are not usually book nominees. It is like, we're talking mj, we're talking Beautiful and Jersey Boys. That's kind of it. And there have been more than that. I mean, we're not. I'm not going to include the COVID year with Tina, but like Hell's Kitchen. That's not a bio. Everything about it, it's fake.

A (131:41)

Oh, I think I just said jukebox.

B (131:43)

Oh, no, it is a jukebox. Bio Jukebox.

A (131:45)

Yes.

B (131:45)

Yukebox musicals have gotten book nominations in the past, for sure. But Bio Jukebox is a little different.

A (131:52)

Right.

B (131:53)

And I'm not including hell's kitchen because 90% of that story is fictional. But sure, it's just. It's fact.

A (132:01)

I know I'm not great with you.

B (132:02)

Keisha Lewis's character is still alive and white. But if Just In Time ends up being, like, an interesting take on the Bio Jukebox musical, that helps them because that is something that nominators can look at and go, oh, this is a format that we are familiar with. But they do it in a cool way.

A (132:20)

Right.

B (132:20)

We have a. We have a yardstick to compare, like, what makes it special, what makes it different.

A (132:26)

Right.

B (132:26)

I don't know how many people know the Real Women have Curves movies. So they can't necessarily talk about, like, how well it adapts. But if it's a good story, that actually also helps them because they can then be, you know, taken in by the story itself and not think about it being an adaptation.

A (132:42)

Yeah, No, I agree with everything there, I think. Yeah.

B (132:46)

Yeah. I mean, all this is to say, like, I do Think that maybe Happy Ending and Dead Outlaw are kind of locks. I think Death becomes or Operation Mincemeat of Buena Vista Social Club are very probable nominations right now. As I said, like, I don't like Mincemeat very much. I think the book. Book is ultimately better than the score.

A (133:07)

People.

B (133:08)

People are like, oh, is it too British to cross over? I just don't think it's that good. And I know there's going to be at least one critic that will think so. I don't know if it's going to be all the critics. Probably not at this rate. I'm sure the Times is going to piss themselves for it and whatever, but there it's not going to be a unanimous, like, oh, this is the ticket. And we'll talk about more about that with musical as well. But.

A (133:33)

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

B (133:35)

Leading actor in a musical.

A (133:37)

Do we do director of a play?

B (133:41)

Didn't we?

A (133:42)

I don't think we did.

B (133:42)

Oh, let's do director for play then.

A (133:46)

I'm just looking back on that. Yeah. Because I think this is gonna be an interesting one.

B (133:49)

Oh, yeah, you're right. We didn't. Okay. Director of a play. I have O Mary, Sam Pendleton.

A (133:55)

Yep.

B (133:57)

I have Hills of California, San Mendez. I have Kenny Leon for Othello. I mean, granted, really big what if? But maybe Phylicia Rashad for purpose. The Tonys love her. And then I'm throwing a curveball out there and I'm gonna say Lee Silverman for Yellowface.

A (134:19)

Yeah, no, I was gonna say that too. I think. Who is directing? So Glengarry Glen Ross is.

B (134:25)

That's Patrick Marber.

A (134:27)

Okay. Who did Lea Polstadt and who's doing Good Night and Good Luck. Do you know Cromer Kromer? Yeah, that's with. I was like, cromer's doing one of them. Yeah. So I agree with you. I think O Mary likely. I think Omari is interesting, though, because it's not. The direction's great because it serves the production very, very well, but it's not directy of a show. There's not a moment where everyone's like, you know, the hills of California, like that staircase moment where you see something very visually and people are like, oh, that's a great directing choice. Right. O' Mary doesn't really have anything like that. And it doesn't need to right now. Whether or not people recognize that inherently is good direction is, you know, the question. But I think, you know, assuming Omari is going, you know, good for best play, we'll say, oh, Mary.

B (135:11)

I think what it's going to help. Oh, Mary. Is there is some physical comedy to the direction, which helps, but also the pacing, the tone, and the cast work like. I think the cast. Kinect chemistry is ultimately what got, like, Whitney White her Tony nomination for Jaja's African hair braiding.

A (135:29)

Yeah. Especially with comedy. Making sure they're all playing the same type of comedy. And in this case, it's this weird, like, you know, synthesis between camp and slapstick. Right. And so kind of finding that overlap. Yeah. But I think so. Yeah. So, O Mary, the hills of California. You said Dorian Gray.

B (135:45)

I did not say Dorian Gray. That is something that I have on the bubble.

A (135:48)

Right. Okay. I'm gonna say I think it's Dorian Gray is gonna just be really good Dorian Gray. And then I agree with you about Yellowface, though. I'm here for it. And unless Stranger Things is great.

B (136:01)

Yeah. Or John Fox, I think that's John Tiffany. Right. Is Stranger Things. And Stranger Things, I think, is more like. I mean, everyone I know who's seen it has been like, the script is bad, but it is so cool to watch.

A (136:14)

Got it.

B (136:16)

And so it could be sort of a Life of PI situation. And I think Life of Pie did get a directing nomination. So sometimes, like, sometimes people do just think of direction as staging, which is a part of it, but they also have to hone the material, they have to hone the actors. They have to have a control over everything. And when there is so many plates spinning, like something like Dorian Gray, which is both adapted and directed by Kip Williams, like, that helps them. That helps Tiffany. For Stranger Things, I think it's. I'm saying it's Tiffany. I may be wrong. Maybe it's Stephen Daldry, but I'm pretty sure it's. It is. I'm wrong. It is Stephen Daldry.

A (136:53)

There you go.

B (136:53)

There we go. And Stephen Daldry is very, very well liked, so that. That can help them.

A (136:57)

He also hasn't done anything in a while. Right. What's the last thing he directed?

B (137:01)

I think Inheritance was the last thing.

A (137:02)

Which was five years. Oh, it's like. Because I was like, nothing's Billy Elliot. But no, no. Something.

B (137:07)

Inheritance was since then. But he won for the inheritance.

A (137:10)

Sure. I mean, I think you're right about purpose. We don't really know.

B (137:13)

I just know that again with the Tonys, don't bet against Felicia Rashad.

A (137:17)

No. Yeah. Good advice. But yeah. So I think, oh, Mary Hills of California. I'm gonna say Dorian Gray just because I think that's That's a solid one. I'll say. Purpose. See? See how that one does? And, you know, I agree with you about Yellowface, and especially because that would be the only. You know, there's gonna probably be at least one play. Revival direction in there, right? Yeah.

B (137:40)

And I think that's. Yeah, I think Othello, Yellowface, and maybe Glen Gary are like the three that.

A (137:45)

Are sort of Othello again. Othello is also great. Yeah. Then that'll be it.

B (137:48)

I just can't. Like, there's John Proctor as the villain with Donna Taymor. I just can't help but feel like John Proctor is the villain is for Donya Taymor. What? The Thanksgiving play is for Rachel Chavkin, where it's like, right off of your Tony win, everyone is super into you, and then you do this play and we go, okay, you can't do everything. And that's totally okay.

A (138:08)

Interesting.

B (138:09)

Which is not to say that Dinah Taymore can't do plays because she did a great job with Jonah. I'm just. I'm. I. I hope it proves me wrong. It's just that that premise sounds awful.

A (138:18)

Well, she's also doing this show at mcc. I can't remember the name of that play.

B (138:21)

Donya Taymor.

A (138:23)

I think so.

B (138:25)

Okay, so that's what we said. Now we go into leading actor in a musical.

A (138:28)

Yes.

B (138:30)

Here we go. We did it. We made it. We made it to the moment. Okay, our contenders so far, Christian Borrell for Tammy Faye, Darren Criss for maybe Happy Ending, Tom Francis for Sunset Boulevard, Jonathan Groff for Just In Time, Gray Henson for Elf, James Monroe Iglehart for A Wonderful World, Nick Jonas for the last five years. Jeremy Jordan for Floyd Collins. There are some unclears. Nick Barish and Ramin Karimloo for Pirates, maybe even David Hyde Pierce for pirates, John Gallagher Jr. For Swept Away. Very much the closest thing to a lead of that show. But they might ultimately decide that they don't think there is a lead of that show. David Cumming for Operation Mincemeat was nominated at the Olivier Awards. And then Jeb Brown and Andrew Duran for Dead Outlaw, both of whom had been nominated for leading actor in a musical, I think at the Lortels and one of them, possibly the drama desks. So that's a lot of unclear for me on those. I think as of right now, I am feeling very confident about Darren Criss and Tom Francis, sight unseen. I'm feeling confident about J. Groff in Just In Time. And Jeremy Jordan, Floyd Collins, they don't have to be incredible. They just have to not be terrible.

A (139:42)

Right.

B (139:43)

Floyd Collins is a show that we know is good. Good. Flawed as it is. It is very good. So, like, Jeremy just has to be better than fine to get nominated finally for that. And then J. Groff, like, even if just in time is mid. He is so well loved. And I've pretty sure that show is just like, around him. This is gonna be such a star vehicle.

A (140:02)

Yes. Yeah, I agree with that. I think Tom Francis, see, for some reason, I don't know why, but I'm still unsure about Darren Criss. I don't know why. I think we'll talk about this with musical. But how maybe happy ending will perform. I think it'll perform well. I think it's looking like it can and probably will make it to the Tonys. Right?

B (140:23)

I think so.

A (140:23)

Unlike how people originally expected it to be. Dead on arrival. I think if it plays to the Tonys, Darren Criss is pretty solid. I think if it doesn't make it to the Tonys, I think we're looking at a different situation depending on how the buzz for everything else goes this spring. Right. But I think so. I think Tom Francis. Darren Criss will say that for right now. Jay Groff, I agree with you about that. Jeremy Jordan, I think. Definitely. I also think this could be his year.

B (140:48)

I mean, that's. That's a role that can absolutely win.

A (140:51)

Yes. It depends on the production. But I think that's like, you know, he's definitely, you know, people are like, you know, let's give him his dues. Andrew Durand, I heard, was very good in Dead Outlaw.

B (141:01)

He's very good. The thing with Andrew Duran in Dead Outlaw is that he is on stage probably 85% of the time. He is comatose for half of that.

A (141:09)

Okay.

B (141:10)

It is because, you know, the whole point of that.

A (141:11)

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

B (141:12)

So he. So, I mean, it is impressive that he is able to do that for so long. And he is. He's active for the first half of the show. I think it is one of those nominations where if we as a community agree that the show is as good as you remembered it was, and we like it and we like him.

A (141:36)

We all like Andrew. Right. It's like.

B (141:39)

It's one of those things where it's like when you're at the table with your friends and you're at Cheesecake Factory and everyone's technically full, but they ask if you want to look at the dessert menu, and it's like, should we do it right should we get dessert? It's like, I feel like nominators are gonna be like, should we do it? Should we nominate Andrew Duran for Dead Outlaw?

A (141:56)

Right.

B (141:57)

I'm down for it.

A (141:57)

No, I'm here for it. And then Ramin Karimloo also, again, I think, you know, we'll see. Yeah.

B (142:04)

The problem with that for me is, I mean, Ramin is a great singer and the Pirate King is probably outside of the major general, like, the role of that show. I'm hoping Ramin proves me wrong. He's not really like a wackadoo comic, and that's something you kind of need to be a wackadoo for.

A (142:23)

Right.

B (142:24)

Again, hopefully I'm proven wrong, but I think that if there's anyone. I mean, I think James Monroe Iglehart has a shot at getting in for A Wonderful World just because, again, he is well liked. It is a show centered around him, even though the buzz is that his standby is his alternate is better than he is. He is the lead of the show and was one of the directors of it. So it's just sort of like the. You did the thing. Here you go. The problem is also that show is probably going to be gone by Valentine's Day, so whereas I do think maybe happy ending is going to make it to nomination. Nomination day.

A (142:56)

Yes. If all looks as it's going now.

B (142:59)

Yes. They are in. They are in a very strong position right now to at least make it to March.

A (143:04)

Yes. And I think that's all they need.

B (143:06)

Yeah, exactly. If you can make it to March, then you can make it to April.

A (143:08)

Yes, I think. And yeah, we'll talk about with musical. And then Nick Jonas. We'll see.

B (143:15)

That is, I'll say Jamie in last five years is already a tricky role because you start off as the more likable of the two and then by the time the show ends, most people have turned on Jamie and are feeling sympathy for Kathy.

A (143:26)

Right.

B (143:26)

So you have to not only sing the motherfucking house down, you have to be a charming sob And I'd argue no one since Norbert has been able to successfully do that. And I don't know if Nick has it in him. I would love to be proven wrong. Whitney is a great director. Maybe she's going to get it out of him. But also when he's on stage opposite Adrian, who is a hurricane in woman form.

A (143:50)

Right. Like, right.

B (143:52)

Is she gonna kind of mop the stage with him? Who's to say?

A (143:55)

Love to see.

B (143:56)

We'd love to see. This is. But Also, this is where I'm like, can we just have some justice for Gray? I would love Gray to get in.

A (144:04)

There, you know, And I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna say it couldn't happen. Right. Like, I think if you had asked me two months ago, could Grey Henson get in for Elf? I'd say there's no way it's happening. Yeah.

B (144:13)

What are you smoking?

A (144:14)

Yes. Now, I'm like. I kind of see what you're saying. Like, looking at this list again, not having seen half these performances. I agree with that. I think he did a really, really good job. I think he had a really. It's a demanding role, and I think he did a really good job with it.

B (144:29)

Yeah. I think that there is a world in which Dead Outlaw becomes a best musical contender with just the one nomination for Tom Sesma. I think that's. There's a world in which that absolutely can happen. There's a world where maybe Happy Ending is a major frontrunner with no performance nomination. Right.

A (144:48)

I.

B (144:49)

There's a. I also think, like, there's a world in which, you know, Sunset Boulevard overperforms everywhere. But weirdly, not for Tom Francis. Like, I think, because with Sunset Boulevard, Nicole is as much the story in the same way that Audra is the story for Gypsy. As far as I'm concerned, everyone else is vulnerable. Not because they're bad or anything like that, just because when everything is about one person, people start to take for granted that everyone else is a lock.

A (145:20)

Yeah, yeah. So I hear what you're saying.

B (145:24)

So, yeah, I'm going to put money down on Jeremy and Jonathan, sight unseen. And I'm going to put a very strong confirmation for Tom and for Darren. I think that that fifth slot, Gray could slyly get in there. Here's the thing with last five years. I keep having to remind myself that last five years is happening.

A (145:46)

Oh, don't worry, baby. I won't. I won't let you forget.

B (145:49)

You won't let me forget. Okay, we got musical play revivals. Which one do we want?

A (145:55)

We'll start with play revival. Let's work our way up here because I feel like that's what the listeners who are with us, they're on the edge of their seat waiting.

B (146:01)

They're waiting to see here.

A (146:02)

Yeah.

B (146:02)

And agree or disagree?

A (146:04)

Play revival, you've got. So here are all the nominees. Let me be clear. Glengarry Glen Ross Home, Othello, Our Town, Romeo and Juliet, Yellowface. Unclear. The Picture of Dorian Gray. I would think it's going into Best.

B (146:20)

Play, I'm gonna assume.

A (146:21)

Yes.

B (146:21)

It's just sometimes these things do happen.

A (146:26)

I mean, you tell me. I mean, I can see them putting John Proctor as the villain in Best Play Revival based off of the criteria that you provided in the past. Right. Where if it's, like, been licensed or something.

B (146:36)

Licensed, yeah. It's usually a combination of. It has to have played New York once before and then been licensed and then some time passing. Has John Proctor the villain, been done in New York at all?

A (146:48)

I mean, not probably not like, professionally. I'm sure some high schools done it because, like.

B (146:52)

Well, because then also there's like, the Thanksgiving play, which I'm pretty sure that was considered for best play.

A (146:57)

Yeah.

B (146:58)

So I don't. Sometimes they just fucking fuck. But yeah.

A (147:02)

Yeah, but we'll see. I think here, to be clear, what's open so far or what has opened and home has closed? Home, Our Town, Romeo and Juliet, Yellowface. Right. What hasn't opened yet is Glengarry Glen Ross. Othello.

B (147:15)

Yes.

A (147:15)

I think Glengarry Glen Ross. My four would be Glengarry Glen Ross, Othello, sight unseen, Our Town and Yellowface.

B (147:24)

I'm the exact same.

A (147:25)

That's what I would say. Now there's a world where Othello is a train wreck and Glengarry Glen Ross is a train wreck. I don't think that's going to exclude them necessarily. No. I mean, I'm a producer on Romeo and Juliet, so obviously I like it a lot. I think looking at this list here, I would be a little surprised if it gets in. But, you know, crazier things have happened.

B (147:53)

I think Othello has to be such a train wreck that people resent it for the ticket prices and the exclusivity of getting to see it and then finding out that it's bad.

A (148:01)

Yes.

B (148:02)

And that would get Romeo and Juliet in there because especially then we have two Shakespeares that did not do super well critically, but maybe well commercially. I think if Othello and Glengarry Glen Ross are mid to bad, they still get in. But there's a world in which our town then wins. I would vote for Yellowface, but I think Our Town is considered the better play and ultimately has the more, like, positive message to send.

A (148:32)

Yeah. It's weird this season with the play revivals because I feel like since COVID the play revivals have really been exceptional. Yeah, right. And I mean, granted, again, two of the biggest ones haven't even opened yet, so it's too early to say, but. But I agree with you, I think Yellowface had a really, really good product. It was a good production.

B (148:49)

Yeah, Yellowface was. I found that to be very delightful. Again, it sort of loses steam in the third act, but that's more the play itself. I think the production did a very good job. And also a production that really was fighting an uphill battle by being in the American Airlines Theater, the Todd Haynes theater, which is one of the smaller ones, but still kind of too big for a play like Yellow Face. And I thought that they were able to fill the space quite well.

A (149:14)

Yeah, that's a weird theater to be in.

B (149:15)

It is. And, and you don't realize how good a job they do in that theater until you've also seen Home in that theater where it just. It was Floyd Collins. Baby was a big empty cave.

A (149:25)

Yeah.

B (149:26)

But.

A (149:27)

Yeah, yeah, because Fat Ham did a great job in that theater.

B (149:30)

I thought they did a wonderful job in that.

A (149:31)

Yeah, it's a tough theater, but if you, you can make it work. You can, you can.

B (149:35)

It's. This is another interesting thing about this category is I don't think we have any British imports for this revival, for revival play. And I'll talk about this more as we get to musical because there is being British, being a British import can help you or hurt you, depending on the category you're in. And I couldn't tell you necessarily why that is. I can just tell you about history. Yeah, yeah. So in conclusion Play revival, we said Glengarry Glen Ross, Othello, Our Town, Yellowface. And I think that's. I don't think that's really going to change. Okay, so musical revival. Our contenders are Elf, Floyd Collins, Gypsy, the Last five Years, Once Upon a Mattress, Sunset Boulevard, I think Sunset Boulevard and Gypsy are obvious locks. Much as I enjoyed Elf, I am a realist and I don't think it's going to happen. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Floyd Collins and I'm going to say right now, once Upon a Mattress.

A (150:30)

Yeah, yeah. No, I think, I think you're right. Sunset, Gypsy locks. To what I said earlier. I would love it if Floyd Collins comes in or Pirates comes in and says, you guys saw this was a two way race. That's so funny. Right. And you know, I sense that you're optimistic about Floyd Collins, which I like.

B (150:49)

Yeah, well, I think what it is is that it's a musical I really enjoy. It's being directed by a very good director who did it the first time and also co wrote the book. So she knows this show, and she turned spongebob and put it in the palace and made it fit quite well.

A (151:05)

Right.

B (151:06)

So while I'm not confident in the Beaumont being the right space for that show, I am curious to see what she does with it and. And if she can make it work well enough. I'm fucking down.

A (151:19)

Yeah. I think. And I. I hear that. I think with Pirates as well. Like, I really want Pirates to be great.

B (151:23)

Same.

A (151:24)

I think the thing with the musical revivals is Once Upon a Mattress. It was good. It was very delightful. It wasn't. Oh, my gosh, this is new. This is inventive. Like, we are reimagining a show, and.

B (151:40)

It wasn't even so delightful that you're like, it's not inventing the wheel, but it's heaven. I'm like, that's fine.

A (151:46)

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, you tell me. I don't know. Many people that saw it at Encores and then were inclined to go see it again on Broadway. I felt like there were a lot of people who, if they saw it, Encore, said, great. You know, I saw it and I. I liked it, you know, but I don't have any desire to go back and go see it now again on Broadway. Right. Yeah. And I. I. I don't know. So.

B (152:08)

No, no, you do know. You'd be confident in your opinions, babe. The thing about Mattress for me is I saw it at Encores, and I was like, this is a very delightful Encores production. It's not phenomenal. It's not the best thing I've even seen at Encores, but, like, it's. It's a nice enough time. And then they announced that they were transferring it. I was like, okay, why? And they come to Broadway. I go and I bring someone with me who. He loved it at Encores, and he was ready to love it on Broadway. And I was like, I thought I was fine at Encores. Comes to Broadway and I'm like, it's, like, a little more fine now. It's not great. I think some of the new casting is not as good as Encores, but, like, overall, it's probably mostly awash. He got angry because he loved it so much at Encores, and then on Broadway, he was like, they didn't do anything with it. They didn't add any more scenery. They took away three or four pieces from the orchestra. He got so mad. And I feel like the people who enjoyed it on Broadway are not gonna go to the mat for it. And the people who didn't like it or were mid on it are gonna be like, you know, we can forget about it. The thing is that right now, it is one of the few revivals we have here that we do know happened. And it wasn't a disaster. It wasn't set the town afire of, like, a major hit, but it got solid enough reviews. They did the month in LA that ended quite well. They're gonna get that cast recording thanks to Amy Sherman Palladino, and that cast recording is gonna come out at the exact right moment, and I think that helps it a great deal. What's tricky is if Last five Years ends up working because Pirates is a big swing and if it works great, you know, props to everyone. Revival, choreography, sets, costumes, orchestrations. Jinx. Nail them all down to the ground.

A (153:59)

Right.

B (154:00)

Last five Years is the one that I'm a little more iffy on.

A (154:03)

Yeah. Because even if it's good, it has.

B (154:06)

To be really good.

A (154:07)

There's not, and there's not much you can do with it. I mean, you can't do, you know, last five years in, I don't know.

B (154:14)

In the regular order, but, like, you.

A (154:16)

But there's not, like, I don't know, you can have a very clear vision for the production. It can be very well executed. The actors can be very well cast. Ultimately, though, there's not much you can do to make it new. Right. And maybe I'm wrong there, but that's what I think.

B (154:31)

Well, I think. I think that every time we say that, something happens and surprises all of us. I. Whitney White is a director who I am very much on. On board for after having seen Jaja Last five Years has a couple things that they have to now prove themselves. One is that they have to prove that they fit in that theater. I'm not talking ticket sales. Like, yes, it's gonna. It's gonna sell the hut. Was it Robbie Roselle who said it like, the Hudson has become the theater with a star, and a revival like that is becoming its calling card. And I'm sure that's going to be more of that next season. But, you know, we had Sutton in Mattress. We had Daniel Radcliffe and Jay Groff and Merrily we had all in, which isn't a revival, but celebrities on stage. But with Last five Years, it is a theater that ultimately might be too big for it. Nick is an actor that a lot of theater folk are not super confident he can handle the role. And while the show has a big fan base, it also has a lot of people who point out a Lot of the rightful flaws that are in it. Part of it is just like the concept of it as a whole doesn't always make it the most fulfilling piece of theater for a lot of people. I've always found last five years to be more fulfilling as a listening experience than a view viewing experience. So they've. They've got a lot of. They've got their work cut out for them, is what I'll say. And so if. If they can. It can't. As opposed to where we feel like Othello just kind of has to be decent to get nominated. Like, last five years kind of has to be a little bit more than decent.

A (156:03)

Yes. I think especially if Floyd Collins and if Floyd Collins and Pirates are good. Yeah. Then I think you have your four, right. Yeah, that's the four. Maybe a fifth for last five years. If it. If it slaps and even maybe fit for Once Upon a Mattress at that point. Right.

B (156:15)

The votes have to be close for that to happen. Yes. And it could have. Stranger things have happened. But, yeah, I think right now it is definitely, as we all know it, is Gypsy and Sunset Duke in it out. You and I both are here for the chaos of Floyd Collins being awesome and just throwing it all out of whack. And then. Yeah. What if Pirates ends up just being like a pajama game? Delightful. That took us all by surprise.

A (156:37)

Yes. I'd love that. Can't wait.

B (156:40)

Okay, so, next up, best play.

A (156:43)

Yes.

B (156:44)

Our contenders are Cult of Love. English. Eureka Day. Good night and good luck. The Hills of California.

A (156:50)

Job.

B (156:51)

John Proctor is the villain left on 10th. McNeil O' Mary Purpose, the roommate. Stranger Things with, technically speaking unclear. Picture of Dorian Gray and All in. You and I have now sort of discussed it, and I'm sure that picture of Dorian Gray will be put in play. All in. We both of us weren't totally sure if it was Tony eligible, but I believe it is now. I'll just say this now. It's not getting nominated for. So I'm gonna say for best costumes of a play. Absolutely. Oh, my God, yes. John Mulaney's suit. Best staging. I would say for best play, I'm gonna say, oh, Mary leading the charge. Hills of California right against it. I'm gonna say English as it is a pollster winner. And if this production is solid, I think that's all it really needs to be. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say purpose.

A (157:51)

Sure.

B (157:52)

Just because of Brandon. And then for me, it's kind of duking it out between Eureka Day and Cult of Love. Again, not knowing anything about how Good Night and good Luck's gonna fare. And not knowing much about John Proctor as the villain between Eureka Day and Cult of Love, I am gonna say Eureka Day.

A (158:08)

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Oh, Mary, definitely. I. How do I phrase this? I'm gonna try this in a way that's not gonna piss you off. If purpose is great, if. I mean, the picture of Dorian Gray I think also has a really good shot. If purpose is great, let's say good night and good luck is great. English is great. I don't know. I could. Look, I can see a world where the hills of California get snubbed here. You can say that. Snubbed, right, people. It's not. It's the term that you don't like was robbed. I don't think it's.

B (158:43)

I don't like robbed. Yeah.

A (158:44)

But I agree with that. When people are like, ariana was robbed of the Golden Globe, I was like, well, babe, first off, she wasn't gonna win. Second off, I love it when theater.

B (158:50)

People who don't know anything about film awards.

A (158:53)

Right? Well, to be fair, those are the theater people. It's the Ariana fans saying that.

B (158:56)

It's also theater people.

A (158:58)

Maybe. I don't know. I feel like most of my theater fans are like, oh, damn, I wish she had want friends.

B (159:01)

Yeah, I'm sure the Ariana fans are the one who's saying she's robbed. But, like, fans being like, how did Wicked not win the Golden Globe? I'm like, it was never gonna win the Golden Globe.

A (159:09)

Yeah, but you loved Emilia Perez, so it works out well.

B (159:12)

I loved Emilia Perez as much as most of Twitter and Instagram loves Emilia Perez.

A (159:16)

Great. Yeah. Anyway, so. Oh, Mary. But I don't know, I see a world where the hills of California, maybe some. Because it's early on in the season. And especially if some of these other new exciting works take up the buzz of the spring.

B (159:29)

If the new exciting works take up the buzz. Absolutely. I will. Like, if purpose is great, if English really does slap, if Goodnight and good luck is fucking awesome, then, yeah, I would say it would be those three, plus o' Mary with maybe a Eureka Day or Cult of Love in there. Or if John Proctor is the villain turns out to be the surprise sensation.

A (159:48)

Yeah.

B (159:50)

Picture of Dorian Gray, I'm gonna already say, like, I don't see it getting in again. I'm getting very Prima Facie vibes where it's like the performance and the technical elements really sell it. And even if it's a really good adaptation, people are gonna also kind of comfort be like, well, it's Oscar Wilde. That's brilliant. It's not the adaptation. That's brilliant.

A (160:09)

Yeah.

B (160:09)

Which I. Which is unfair because it's. It's a play. But I'm just go. I'm going with the devil's advocate of it all.

A (160:15)

Yeah.

B (160:16)

Here is where I am going to vouch for Hills of California, because I hinted at this. But here's the. Being a British import helps you so much in best play, it even can help you in musical revival. It has a prestige factor and an esotericism that Tony nominators and voters really love. And Jeze Butterworth is also really enjoyed by nominators. And I think that whereas Hills of California did not come in and become the Lehman trilogy of the season, it was overall well received. It did not sell terribly well. But that's sort of. There's enough open space here for nominators to be like, we want to recognize this, and we want people to know that this was. This was something that was worth seeing and also let them know that we are cultured and we like the thing that England also loves.

A (161:09)

Yes. And I think, look, I think it's more likely that it gets in than not by far. I think that it will just be a question of how the rest of the season shakes out. I think Omari, frontrunner here now. I think if purpose is amazing, I think if Good night, Good luck is amazing, I think if John Proctor, the villain, is amazing, Omari doesn't have it on a lock, I don't think by any means. Right. I think. Right. If you were to stop the season today, it would. Right. But the picture of Dorian Gray. You know, I hear what you're saying about the Oscar Wilde adaptation. I mean, maybe I'm just not cultured, but I don't know how well known that is to begin with. Right.

B (161:47)

It's pretty well known, especially of the cultured set. It's a very. It's a pretty famous story.

A (161:53)

You remember. You forgot I'm from South Carolina. We don't read Oscar Wilde.

B (161:56)

Yes, well, yes. And your. Your face is more in a pillow than in a book usually.

A (162:04)

Depends on the context.

B (162:05)

Yeah. Stuffed into a pillow or, you know, over a dumpster can or wherever nowadays. Wherever he can get it.

A (162:12)

The bathroom of the St. James. Right.

B (162:14)

That is the gayest hotspot in all of New York right now is intermission. Male bathroom of the St. James.

A (162:19)

Well, I actually have a very funny story. I was gonna Bring it afterward. I'm recording because it's a little inappropriate. But it's about. It has nothing to do with me. But it's about Carleigh Carmelo anyways. No, no, I have to say it now. I have to say it. No, wait. This is such a tangent, but. So there's this porn star, okay. Named. His name is Jonah Wheeler. Okay, sure. Super nice guy. Right. He's always. He's a theater boy. Right. Like he's a theater lover. Right. He did this interview recently where he said, I view being a porn actor the same way that Carolee Carmelo views her roles in that she goes in and when it's her time to work, she's working, she's locked in, she's in character. Then when she leaves the theater, she's back to her normal self and she says, I'm not working anymore, I'm myself. He goes, that's the way that I view being a porn star. And it was the gayest thing I could possibly imagine. I was like, okay, so here's a gay porn star talking about his adult films the same way that Carolee Carmelo approaches, actually.

B (163:17)

Anyways, what does that mean? Like he rides dick when the cameras are on and then when the cameras are off, he doesn't touch another person.

A (163:24)

I think he's probably more like the Persona, like the character.

B (163:27)

Sure, sure. Anyways, what's his Persona?

A (163:31)

Gay porn? I don't know. It wasn't. There's not really a clear.

B (163:34)

Like is he like Dom Tap? Is he Saba?

A (163:36)

I think it was like he's like very kind of all over the place.

B (163:38)

Okay, much. But much like you can't pin down Carolee Carmelo's type girlfriend is V verse.

A (163:44)

Love her.

B (163:45)

Love her.

A (163:46)

Anyway, so like, so back. Like I was saying, the hills of California could get nominated.

B (163:52)

But yeah, those two tangents were connected.

A (163:55)

Oh Mary Hills of California say today if you had to put a gun to my. I'd say, oh Mary Hills of California purpose. Sure. The picture of Dorian Gray. English cool.

B (164:08)

We agree on everything but Dorian Gray where I have Eureka Day but also could be Cult of Love. It's all it. It always helps when you are a non profit that is well liked and has a thing that did well or is well received. And Eureka Day is also now extended twice. So they have that whole like we keep. We can't. Can't keep tickets in the box office long enough. I don't know.

A (164:29)

Right. And to what you're saying earlier, the performances are generally more memorable than to Love. Right. You have Amber Gray and Jessica Hecht, who are probably have a better shot at getting nominated than I would say. Majority of people love Cults of Love, if not everybody, right?

B (164:39)

Yeah, I think. Yeah. Cult of Love's problem is that everyone is very good and everyone's gonna have a difference opinion of who's their favorite.

A (164:45)

Yeah.

B (164:45)

And Yurika Day, it's. Everyone is very good, but it's very clear that, like, it is the. The Jessica Hecht Amber Gray Show.

A (164:51)

Yes.

B (164:52)

So which leads us finally to Best Musical. Our options are A Wonderful World.

A (164:59)

Beep.

B (165:00)

Buena Vista Social Club. Dead Outlaw. Death becomes her Just in time. Maybe Happy Ending, Old Friends, Operation Mincemeat. Real Women have Curves. Redwood Smash, Swept Away and a tammyveigh. Okay, want to give me your. Your five right now?

A (165:20)

I'll give you my five to be nominated.

B (165:22)

Yeah.

A (165:22)

Again, these are not anything about winning, but I'm going to say Dead Outlaw, maybe Happy ending, Mincemeat. Death becomes her. Buena Vista Social Club.

B (165:37)

So say that. We'll say that one more time.

A (165:39)

I'll go in order. I'll go in alphabetical order. Easier. Buena Vista Social Club. Dead Outlaw. Death becomes her. Maybe Happy Ending, Operation Mincemeat.

B (165:48)

We have the exact same five.

A (165:49)

Done. There you go. No, I think obviously there's a lot of question marks here. Right. I think boop. Again, heard lovely things about it, so could come in and absolutely be amazing. I don't think. Again, I don't think this is going to be any sort of social commentary piece that makes people cry. But, you know, there are many examples of Tony's loving, just generally happy, good musicals. Right. Real women have curves. You know, I don't know. Could be great. Redwood famously, the, you know, is going to be an absolute hit. And, you know, we know so much about it.

B (166:24)

We did so much about it.

A (166:26)

Smash. Who knows?

B (166:29)

Yeah, you know, I think so. The thing about Best Musical is lately the Tonys have gone often for the smaller, weirder musical. Not always, but pretty frequently with the Kimberly Akimbo, Strange Loops Visit Fun Home. I would even argue, like, Hadestown accidentally became a major smash.

A (166:52)

Right.

B (166:53)

But when it opened like that too, was kind of like the weird indie musical. Yeah, that when you put it opposite Beetlejuice, Tootsie Ain't Too Proud. Even the Prom, which, like the Prom was an underdog, but the Prom was much more like razzmatazz than Hadestown.

A (167:06)

Yeah. I think given the option, they usually go for that. Yes.

B (167:10)

I think if you're gonna be the splashy musical, you have to be a right and tight, splashy musical and boop could become that if they did all the right work. I think Smash, if they do the work, could become that as well. Of our five, I honestly would say Death Becomes her is the most vulnerable here because it is. What Death Becomes her has in its favor is it has a lot of people on the board, both in the cast and on the team, who are very well liked in the community. And it is doing very well right now at the box office.

A (167:39)

Right.

B (167:39)

That help. Being a successful musical helps a lot. Especially, like, they got very strong reviews. They did not get, like the fucky reviews that maybe Happy Ending got, but they got better than most people expected.

A (167:52)

Right.

B (167:53)

I think Buena Vista Social Club also has the prestige of the Atlantic. It is a lot of high energy, a lot of heat. While also being an indie ish musical. Operation Mincemeat has the prestige factor of the West End of being a transfer, of having the Olivier Award. Operation Mincemeat could very well not translate here. It also could be that without the veneer of British insideriness, people can watch it and go, oh, I don't think this is a terribly good musical. I'm also going to say this now because this is what I was referring to again with play and revival. Whereas British imports can have a lot of prestige factor for a best play contender or a best musical revival contender. Sometimes it helps them win. Sometimes it's just like that is enough to get them nominated. It is very difficult now to be a musical that originates in London and wins here. Best case scenario is that, you know, London was a pit stop on your way to Broadway, like a Hadestown, but something like an and Juliet or a Matilda. Groundhog Day. Tina. There is a point of pride that Broadway has when it comes to musical theater. And really you have to be an undeniable force from London for them to vote. Like when Billy Elliot won big at the Tonys, it actually turned it into a post Tony's villain. A lot of people in the community were pissed that it dominated so hard over something like, next to normal.

A (169:32)

Yeah.

B (169:33)

Which. And which I do think is what hurt Matilda a great deal. And there became a sense of pride of like, home base Broadway, you know, entertainment with kinky boots and leaning into that of like, oh, Matilda coming in from London thinking that it's all that in a bag of potato chips. Fuck them. We know how to do musicals, not London.

A (169:54)

Right.

B (169:54)

And same thing also happened with all these other shows. And if Operation Mince Beat comes in, gets great reviews and becomes like a real smash, like selling out every day and having, like a real fan base that is. That speaks volumes for its chances. But we're talking, like the small underdog musicals. We also have it going up against Dead Outlaw. We have it going up against Buena Vista Social Club and we have maybe Happy Ending, which is proving to be the success story of the season already and is already the show that people here are like, as we said earlier, like, that's the one that everyone's been rallying behind.

A (170:31)

Yes. I mean, the narrative for maybe Happy Ending is a very rare narrative nowadays, which is it started out, I mean, to the point where I think this is public knowledge, but, like, it almost didn't open. Right. Like, they literally had to put a stop, whatever work stop, order in because they ran out of money right before the show even opened up. Right. So it was already doomed. Right. When it opened. Right. And the fact that it is even running now in January is a success story. Absolutely. I think because that hype has happened for it, you know, again, it'll definitely get nominated.

B (171:05)

Yeah.

A (171:06)

I think my concern here, because what you were saying earlier about a show's. If a show is doing well at the box office, it helps, I think between Buena Vista Social Club, Dead Outlaw, Mincemeat, and honestly, Real Women have Curves.

B (171:21)

All of those.

A (171:21)

I think if they all don't do well and then close, let's say, like in a month. Right. Even if it's, you know, right around nomination time, I think it's gonna be really tough to advocate for them. Right. So, like, Buena Visa, Social Club, I think is an example. Like, I don't even know what the opening date of that is, but I.

B (171:38)

Think it's what, April and I think March even.

A (171:41)

Yeah. But, you know, so let's say that show, you know, and this, you know, no one wants this to happen, obviously, but plausible that, hey, ticket sales just aren't where they need to be and it closes before the end of April. Right. And then you have nominations. It's like, well, you know, are you going to get that show nomination over maybe, you know, Mincemeat that's running at that time. Yeah. Right. Like, and so I do think there's a world where how these shows perform financially is going to matter when it comes to nominations. Right, Absolutely. And so I think the logic of some of these shows that are going to be. And, you know, they'll all try at the very least to get to nomination day, but I think whichever one of these small musicals doesn't probably Get a nomination for best Musical is probably gonna then have to.

B (172:17)

I'm pretty confident that Dead Outlaw is gonna make it to nomination day. It's coming in like, literally at the very end.

A (172:22)

Dead Outlaw maybe is the exception. I guess what I'm trying to say is like.

B (172:24)

No, I. I know exactly.

A (172:25)

Yeah. Like the. The initial fan base for it. Right.

B (172:30)

I think. I think the thing for me that is really kind of a giant what if is, you know, the. The shows that were unclear how well they've been fixed up for Broadway, like Boop and Smash as well as things like real women have curves coming in from art and us going like, well, what's she gonna bring to us? They just like, if they are. If Smash and Boop are super delightful, like some like it hot style shows. And I. I'm not saying like some like it hot I found super delightful more that like that style of we're giving you razzmatazz, we're giving you musical theater heat.

A (173:09)

Right.

B (173:09)

I think that is enough to push something like Operation Mincemeat out because then we do have our Dead Outlaw at Buena Vista Social Club, like indie musicals and then maybe happy ending our success story of the season with these two super jazz handy musicals.

A (173:26)

Yeah. I mean, I think that another one that we didn't mention was just in time. I don't know. Again, we don't see one as winning, but if that one does really well. Also could elbow out one of these other ones.

B (173:35)

Well, we mentioned this with like the J. Groff of it all with his, you know, imminent nomination. Like, if the show is solid and he's great in it, that's an. I think that's enough to launch it as this star vehicle, best musical nominee. Because, like, I also say nominators do like to kind of round out the best musical category so that there's a little bit of something everywhere. You know, they. If they see three or more of the same kind of shows, like, oh, I'd rather have like two indies, two. Two spectacles, one something else. Like let's like even, like let's look at last year, right. Which wasn't my favorite lineup, but there was a little bit of something different for everything. We had Illinois, which was a full blown dance piece, not like avant garde, but not a traditional musical. We had Outsiders, which was ultimately a traditional musical, crowd pleasing with an edge to it. Hell's Kitchen, which was a jukebox musical, off Broadway transfer. We had Suffs, which was more political and like quirky. And then we had Water for Elephants. Which was a spectacle kind of music.

A (174:38)

Right.

B (174:39)

So everything. They were all, like, a little different from each other.

A (174:41)

Yeah. I mean, this year, I think, will also be a really interesting test case of the power of small music. Because the odds of a small musical here, winning is. Are still pretty high. Right. I think of what that financial power can say. Right?

B (174:52)

Absolutely.

A (174:54)

But, yeah, I mean, all in all, I think that the takeaway here is we have everything decided and we're ready for the Tony nominations tomorrow. Get them all right?

B (175:01)

Absolutely. The rest of these shows don't even have to open. Redwood, it's yours for the taking.

A (175:05)

Red Hood. I cannot wait for Redwood to open. Everyone's like, this is the best thing you've ever seen. And then all of a sudden, we're like, all right, I know.

B (175:11)

And then Idina comes in and she's like, sorry, Audra. Sorry, Nicole flops.

A (175:15)

And I will also say, for both past two seasons, we've had something announced, like, beginning of April being like, surprise. We're coming in. Because you had a. What was that play? Revival Signing City Bruce, News Window. Oh, my God. And then you had that. And last season, you had Illinois coming very last minute. So for all we know, there could be another thing on the sheet that we don't even know exists yet.

B (175:33)

I mean, trying to think.

A (175:34)

I'd be very hard to press for that. We have Studio 54 that. I mean, theoretically, if wonderful.

B (175:39)

If wonderful doesn't make it to Valentine's Day, that could be open. So, I mean, yeah, something could sweep on in at the very last second. But, I mean, we already have Dead Outlaw coming in super last minute. Not super last minute, but, like, you.

A (175:49)

Know, like a little surprise.

B (175:51)

Yeah, a little surprise here and there. Yeah. I think. What. Imagine if. Imagine if Redwood is incredible timber. Am I right? But literally, yeah, it's. I think that there's enough here for us to start making some bold claims without a lot of knowledge. I look forward to about a month from now when I do this again and see how we're feeling, because in a month from now, Redwood will be playing on the boards, and we'll know for sure what's going on.

A (176:17)

Yeah. And you'll be able to say it's. It's gonna be nominated for everything.

B (176:20)

Choreography, baby.

A (176:23)

Last five years for choreo. Can you imagine? What if the choreo with last 5 years has insane choreo.

B (176:28)

What if. What if. What if there's actually an ensemble. What if.

A (176:31)

Love that.

B (176:32)

What if young Norma gets nominated for featured actress?

A (176:35)

Love her. Well, my Favorite part about that is people like, are like, is that Nicole or not? No one really knows. Like, like when I saw it, everyone was like, I. It doesn't look like her, but I guess that's her. Yeah, but it's her.

B (176:45)

Ish.

A (176:46)

Yeah, I mean, that's the point. Maybe that's what we're all been saying.

B (176:48)

That's what we've all been saying. Okay, so David, this has been delightful.

A (176:52)

Thank you.

B (176:53)

Thank you so much for coming on and just flying blind with me. I appreciate it.

A (176:56)

I'm so excited. Thank you for having me. I'm sure the fans will demand me to come back soon.

B (177:01)

They will. Like they demanded last time?

A (177:03)

Exactly. They were all crazy about it.

B (177:04)

Where can people find you if you want them to find you?

A (177:08)

Well, depends on which day of the week. But you can find me on Instagram at David Lynch. L, Y N C H. Or if you're nasty, LinkedIn, David Lynch. Or you can go to my productions website, djl-productions.com. hey.

B (177:26)

Oh.

A (177:30)

Okay, well, I guess don't go to the website.

B (177:31)

Don't go to the website. We discussed Fucking fire.

A (177:35)

Fire.

B (177:36)

Smoke detector gave me a low battery signal that was scary as fuck. Okay, if you want to follow me, I'm on Instagram only. Attcoplek. Usual spelling. If you like the podcast, you can give us a nice 5 star rating or review. You can join the Discord Channel for Broadway Breakdown. The link will be in the description box. There's a lot of wonderful chats and information flowing there. You also can submit questions for future episodes. I can also answer any questions you have about technical issues you might be having with episodes. I understand there was a buzzing sound in the last one. Sorry about that, y'.

A (178:09)

All.

B (178:11)

David, we close out every episode with a Broadway diva. Who do you want to close out today?

A (178:15)

I feel like we have to do Carolee. I feel like we have to do Carolee Carmelo. I'm so sorry. Like we have to.

B (178:20)

It's gonna be Carolee Carmelo. And then before she hits her big money note, it's going to be the sound of some porn star bottoming.

A (178:26)

Great.

B (178:27)

That's another blink from the smoke detector. Which means it's time for us to wrap up. Okay, so that's it. We'll see you guys next week for. I think it's the come from away episode. If not, it'll be something else. Take it away, Caralee. Bye.

A (178:51)

There alone land. Waiting and wailing, Whining and waning.

B (179:06)

Wanting and wasting and woe.

A (179:10)

Waiting, fixating, debating.