← Broadway Breakdown
Loading summary
Transcript309 lines
- [00:00]
Matt Koplik
Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network.
- [00:06]
Sam Ekman
Visit BPN FM to discover more.
- [00:13]
Matt Koplik
This episode is brought to you by Pluto tv. Summer of cinema is here and Pluto TV is exploding with thousands of free movies. Feel the explosive action all summer long with movies like Gladiator, Beverly Hills Cop, Mission Impossible, Ghost Protocol, Good Burger, Stealth, Four Brothers and Star Trek. Bring the action with you and stream for free on all your favorite devices. Pluto tv Stream now, Pay Never. Stream now at Pluto tv. This message comes from Greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely and invest with your guardrails in place with Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk free@greenlight.com Spotify Think of the prestige. No, think of the respect. No, no, no. Think of the. Tony. Tony. Tony. Tony. Tony. Tony. Hello all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And we are in the home stretch, y' all. We are so close, you can taste it. Tony season is finally coming to a close. The final ceremony will be on June 8th this coming Sunday. We are releasing this episode on Thursday. That's June 5th. And with me today to do final predictions as well as like we personally would do if we had our way is for Friend of the Pod. Please welcome back Gold Ruby's own Sam Ekman. Hello, Samuel.
- [02:08]
Rob W. Schneider
Hi, Matt. Thanks for having me.
- [02:10]
Matt Koplik
Thank you for coming back on. I won't go into the full details, but all you guys need to know is that Sam is doing a mitzvah. I fucked up very badly and today was. We had a very stressful hour this morning and Sam is a professional, so he got it done. But we are going to sort of plow through this day. In fact, we have two new reviews of the podcast that I'm not even going to read today because we are using all the time we have with Sam for all of its worth. So just letting everyone know, if you wrote a review, I'm going to read it at the next episode when we do Our recap response to the Tonys with a papa of the pod, Rob W. Schneider. Sam, how have you been feeling about this Tony season, this Broadway season in general?
- [02:50]
Rob W. Schneider
Well, on the one hand, it's really exciting because there's not a lot of locks, I think, going into this Tony Sunday. So it makes the telecast, like, much more exciting when we don't know what's happening. On the other hand, that's really frustrating because I like to do really well in my predictions, and there's a chance. There's a chance that none of us will this year, so it'll be interesting as we approach the end of the week.
- [03:14]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I think whoever gets the closest ballot on Sunday should be studied and be like, what do you know? Who have you spoken to?
- [03:22]
Rob W. Schneider
For sure?
- [03:23]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [03:23]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah.
- [03:24]
Matt Koplik
Um. Yeah, I mean, I think that's sort of the thing that we'll talk about today is, like, you and I both have, I would argue, like, similar metrics in terms of how to sort of decipher where the wind is blowing. And it has been very difficult this season. But on top of that, like, once you, like, start going with your metrics, then something else happens that throws that to the curb. So a lot of my predictions tonight are going to be based off of just gut feeling. And listen, my gut has led me wrong, but many a time, usually personally, rarely professionally. So we'll see what happens today. Why don't we just start off right at the very top and start with sound design of a play and musical, the ones that people really care about.
- [04:02]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, the really, you know, coveted ones that everyone's anticipating.
- [04:07]
Matt Koplik
Well, I mean, friends of the pod will know that in 2023. I kind of threw my shoe at the TV when Sweeney Todd won sound design of a musical. It made no sense to me. It's.
- [04:19]
Rob W. Schneider
There was no whistle.
- [04:20]
Matt Koplik
There was. There was no whistle. And that orchestra sounded a million miles away. But I think isn't that the only category where it's only voted on by those professionals? Sound design.
- [04:32]
Rob W. Schneider
It's both the sound design categories and orchestrations. They've done that, too now.
- [04:37]
Matt Koplik
Okay, I like that.
- [04:38]
Rob W. Schneider
Which makes it harder to. It's. It's better in terms of their peers are truly deciding. You know, educated peers are deciding these. But it makes it much harder to predict sound design because it's, you know, it's such a small pool of people who the hell knows what they're going to choose.
- [04:52]
Matt Koplik
Exactly. And I mean, and in a lot of ways, you're like, oh, what? They should be making informed decisions and sometimes they do, and then sometimes you're like, what was the reasoning behind her? But, yeah, it's been an interesting time. I mentioned this on the Discord Channel. I've been to three different events in the last two weeks that are Tony related. And mostly because I was like, oh, I can have a dinner out of hors d' oeuvres, but I met a lot of Tony voters, a lot of people in the industry. And hearing people talk about this season and what they were voting for, especially there was a difference between two weeks ago and one week ago. I don't know if you heard, but there were things that happened just a little bit. Just a little bit. And the thing that. We'll talk. We'll talk about this as we get a little closer up. But it was interesting to hear people's thoughts on this situation when there was no social media to capture them and then how they personally thought it was going to affect the race versus how they personally were going to vote. So it's interesting times. I'll just say Anthony Hopkins winning for the Father may pop up in a couple of categories this year. I'll just say that.
- [05:56]
Rob W. Schneider
Sure. All right.
- [05:58]
Matt Koplik
So sound design of a play and a musical. Our nominees are for play Stranger Things. John Proctor is the villain. Goodnight and good luck. The hills of California. The picture of Dorian Gray. I feel like this is for me. I'm going with Picture of Dorian Gray here with Stranger Things is the possible upset. I feel like mutt, really.
- [06:18]
Rob W. Schneider
I feel Stranger Things is pretty locked here.
- [06:21]
Matt Koplik
I think. Here's the thing. I had Stranger Things up until an hour ago. And then I was thinking about all of the vocal looping that has to be done in Picture of Dorian Gray, of all the synchronization with Sarah Snook and all of that crap. And so I was. That's like when I was going, huh. I wonder if the sound designers of Dway will see that and go, that's hard.
- [06:45]
Rob W. Schneider
That's really true. I have Dorian Gray in second and it's a very strong second choice.
- [06:49]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [06:49]
Rob W. Schneider
I just think, you know, sometimes when we think about these things, like, it's hard because this category is decided again by a group of peers, not the full membership. But a lot of times it's about, like most of whatever the discipline is, like most sound design. And it's kind of hard to argue that Stranger Things, the first shadow, doesn't have the most sound design of all of them because there's just so much flying at you in that show from the very opening with that huge ship that comes crashing through and there's the lightning strikes and the demogorgons. So it's just like, it's loud, it's intense. And that is frequently what wins here if there is such an option to pick. So I feel like Stranger Things. I feel pretty comfortable in my prediction. But picture Dorian Gray, as you say. Like this synchronicity of it, the timing and the dance that all the elements are doing is really impressive.
- [07:42]
Matt Koplik
That's the thing is, literally until an hour ago, I had it as Stranger Things. And then as I was getting ready for the zoom, I just kept thinking about it and was like, but what if it's Dorian Gray? But then I was thinking, like, how much of a clean sweep do we really think Stranger Things will have in design? Like, is it really going to be sound, scenic lighting, even costumes? I feel like, oh, Mary's going to get costumes. We'll get to that category. But this is, this is why I'm second guessing myself right now as I'm talking to you in this very moment. I don't, I don't want to seem like a fool, but I like, I like one of us having Stranger Things and one of us having Dorian Gray. I feel like that covers both camps. If you were to vote, would you vote for Stranger Things?
- [08:25]
Rob W. Schneider
I would. I thought, you know, the, the magic of that show, Stranger Things is the stagecraft.
- [08:31]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [08:31]
Rob W. Schneider
It more than earned its nominations in the design categories. And I think, yeah, if I think about the best sound that is, you know, that's what stands out in my mind is that show. So I would be happy to vote for that. I think it's a worthy winner.
- [08:46]
Matt Koplik
I would vote for John Proctor as the villain, just for the chaos of it all. I'm still not entirely sure what that nomination is, but here for it. No, I would probably vote for Stranger Things 2. If I'm being honest. The design of that show is so spectacular, you just cannot look away. Sound design of a musical. We have Buena Vista Social Club, Sunset Boulevard Just In Time, maybe Happy Ending. In fact, Peter Hylensky is nominated twice for both Just In Time and maybe Happy Ending. And then Floyd Collins. I actually really love this category. I think all of these are great nominees. I want to give a quick shout out to old friends, which I think has impeccable sound design. Somewhat of Sunset boulevard makes a 14 piece band sound like 30. Yeah. So thoughts here. What do you predict and what you'd vote for?
- [09:33]
Rob W. Schneider
So I'm predicting Sunset Boulevard. I think the sound is just Like a really memorable aspect of that. And that's not always the case in a musical, but I walked away remembering specific instances of the sound design. Like you said, they make the orchestra sound so intense. Like, they have triple the amount of musicians that they have. And it's very crisp. It's just very intense sound design. And even though I feel strongly like, personally, I think Sunset probably is what I would vote for if I had a ballot. That being said, this is a really strong crop, and I think all of these nominees have kind of their own shtick or their own, you know, certain special flavor that could get them the winner. And in a category where we do have things like Sweeney Todd coming in and surprising people and winning, I would not be surprised if any of the five were called. Actually, I think this is pretty open because Just In Time is in Circle in the Square, which historically has an edge in the sound design categories because people know they have to design for Theater in the Round or Thrust. However they're using the stage. I think Buena Vista Social Club has. I mean, we'll get to orchestrations. I think it's more of an orchestrations win for me, but they make that, you know, the band sounds so full in there, and they're a driving force in that show. Maybe. Happy Ending has a lot of different technical elements of sound effects elements in there. And Floyd Collins, I think, does a really cool thing with their sound of making that space sound either expansive or restrictive via the sound design. And, you know, not to mention the yodeling aspect of it all that echoes through the caves. So I feel like each of them, you know, I often think of what moment stands out to me when I'm boiling things down of what's going to win, because I think that's what lands in people's minds when they do fill out a ballot is like, what moment am I coming away with? And all of them have their thing, their moment. So I'm going with Sunset. But I do think this is a category rife for an upset.
- [11:41]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I. I'm going to be undermining my own mantra on this podcast, which is when I talk about that all of these quote, unquote, precursor awards don't totally matter because they are not overlapping voting bodies. The Drama Desk, I think, like, maybe a third of those voters actually voted the Tonys, which that equals, like, 33 people. So how. When. Like, when the Drama Desk Awards happened last night. Sam. The Discord Channel for this podcast, which, if you guys, you haven't joined yet, make sure to join The Discord channel link in the, in the description box. People were going insane because of how certain things were going. And it's fun to watch those things. But I was like, gaz, what have we said on the podcast before? Like, it's, it's not an immediate indicator. Like sometimes certain trends can show you where people are heading to. But I say this because Just in Time won sound design last night at the drama desk and it didn't make me go, oh, if the drama desks vote for it, then it'll win. But I was like, oh, I see why people would vote for that Sound design. Like you said, it is, you know, sort of like surround sound. And it is a very overwhelming design. And I find that a lot of times like that, that quote unquote, surround sound is what voters will go for. It's like a balance of how crisp do I make out the lyrics and then like how big does the music sound and then is it balanced on all sides of me? I personally would vote for Sunset with Hot Take with probably like a Floyd Collins Rising because I did find that the call was just designed so beautifully and I was very thrilled with it. Yeah, my, my personal pick would be Sunset. I'm going against my clear headed self and going with my scaredy self and I'm going to say just in time. You're probably right. But I'm, I'm gonna. Similar to the, the last sound design category, I'm gonna have us balance this out. So that way if, if my guest looks better on June 8th than I do, I'm okay with that. Okay, moving on.
- [13:40]
Rob W. Schneider
It's better for us to be at war anyway.
- [13:43]
Matt Koplik
It's not a war. It's a playful fraud. Froading frauding. Is that what it is?
- [13:49]
Rob W. Schneider
I think that means something different.
- [13:52]
Matt Koplik
I know exactly what I'm, what I'm. What I'm trying to refer to. I just don't know if I have the name correct. But that's also me in a nutshell. I know all the dirty things I'm talking about. I just don't know their proper titles. Okay, let's do lighting design of a musical. We have Sunset Boulevard, Buena Vista Social Club, maybe Happy Ending, Floyd Collins and Death Becomes Her. I am going to go with Sunset Boulevard on this one as well. I say as well. Like I picked Just In Time last night, but I'm going to pick Sunset Boulevard for this and would probably vote for it as well. Yeah. What about you?
- [14:30]
Rob W. Schneider
I am also going with Sunset Boulevard. I think the lighting does a lot of heavy lifting in that show because it is a musical basically without a set. And so a lot of the space and moments are being created through lighting. It has a lot of impact. I do think maybe Happy Ending stands a really strong shot at winning here. If anything else is going to take it, I have it in my number two spot. Yeah, I think the confusing thing is maybe Happy Ending. A lot of stuff is elevated by the video and projection, which is eligible under scenic design. How many voters are paying attention to that? Who knows? Who knows? But you are hit in the face with a lot of lights during this show because all the effects are really impressive. It's a synergy between all the design elements in that show. And maybe Happy Ending, I think is a really strong favorite for best musical and a lot of other awards. So it could sweep, you know, this along with it. But right now I'm going with Sunset just because the lighting is responsible for so much.
- [15:34]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I'm curious to see what happens with maybe Happy Ending overall with its tally because from what I've been gathering with voters is that no one is so overwhelmingly up on any one specific show that they're like gonna vote down the ballot for it. And so I feel like with maybe Happy Ending, it has. It stands the best chance of any new musical this season to pull a sweep. But I wonder if there are some categories where people sort of like draw the line. I think things like lighting, things like sound, things like orchestrations. It's like, okay, we're probably gonna give this thing like seven, but let's not give it nine, you know?
- [16:08]
Rob W. Schneider
Sure.
- [16:09]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like the Tonys when it comes to musicals now, obviously with Moulin Rouge being outlander because of this, an outlier because that was a covet. Gas leak year. But I feel like there's. They are hesitant to do full blown sweeps with musicals these days. They'd want to spread the love as much as they can. But yeah, I think maybe Happy Ending is at my number two there as well. So I'm, I'm, I'm predicting sunset. I personally would vote for sunset. This is another category, though, where I really like all the nominees. Um, yeah, I will say this hot take when the nominations came out, was it April 28th or something like that? Very, very few duds for me. Mo. I agreed with. Yeah, I agreed with a lot of it. And, and some that I didn't agree with. I was like, I see why. And then a few where I just went, we didn't have to do that. But a Small percentage for me.
- [16:58]
Rob W. Schneider
That's a nice. It's usually a large percentage or, well, larger, but I feel like it was pretty fair.
- [17:04]
Matt Koplik
I mean, if you're the drama Desk Awards, baby. I also want to apologize to all the Off Broadway shows at the drama desks this year that were competing against Broadway musicals. I'm sorry that you guys blanked out in every category but drama desk. On a drama Desk. Lightning design of a play. Sam, we have Goodnight and good Luck. The Hills of California, Stranger Things. John Proctor is the villain and the picture of Dorian Gray. This one. I'm going on your bandwagon and I'm going to say Stranger Things is going to take it. Uh, I honestly, I probably would vote for it too, if I'm being honest. Yeah. Looking at these guys. Yeah. What about you?
- [17:38]
Rob W. Schneider
Stranger Things First Shadow. This is an easy call for me. Um, and I know you talked about, like, is this show strong enough to kind of go on a design sweep? But I think it is, even though it's not like a best play nominee. Life of PI did kind of a similar sweep just because the technical and design elements were so strong. And I think this is the case with Stranger Things that it's just. To me anyway, and I think to a lot of voters, the. The strongest of the category.
- [18:04]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I think we're. I am weakening on my sound design of a play by every second. And going back to my initial reaction from yesterday, I do think we're going to see a world where Stranger things wins like 3 Tonys on. On Sunday. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. Costume design of a musical. We have Buena Vista Social Club. Boop. Maybe happy ending. Death becomes her and just in time. The thing that the Discord Channel was very titillated by was that the three Tonys that Boop is nominated for choreography, costume design, actress, they won all three at both the Drama desk and the outer critic circle. Now, granted, yeah, it's very. It's again, it's not all the same, but it makes a girl think, don't it?
- [18:51]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah. I think that's the crazy thing about Boop is that it's clearly not a favorite because it didn't get into best musical or score book. Like, it's not one of the top nominated shows of the evening, but the places it is nominated in, it has a really great shot at winning. I think this costume design award is really a coin toss between death becomes her and Boop. I've alternated kind of predicting either or and switched them back and forth, and neither one feels Right. And the drama desk and OCC have kind of backed that up, but neither of them feels right. I think Paul Tazwell has really, you know, been doing a lot of press recently. He's coming fresh off the Wicked win, so he just has a lot of buzz surrounding him, which can. Which is kind of rare sometimes for a costume designer. A lot of designers don't get that kind of publicity on themselves as a person, and he has gotten that. He's kind of riding that wave. So I feel like I'm going right now with Death Becomes her, but that is not. I'm not confident in it at all because I really do think it's like a 50, 50 shot between death sponsor and Boop.
- [20:08]
Matt Koplik
We'll talk about this more as we continue. I'm getting a lot of Aida deja vu with this one where it doesn't get the big nominations, but the nominations, it gets. It kind of sweeps. And, yeah, I mean, what I think I personally would vote for Death Becomes her for costumes, because the costumes and Boop that I love are not the overwhelming majority of the costumes of the show. There are other costumes in the show that I'm like, that's fine. Whereas Death becomes where I pretty much was on board with every single piece. And it's so outlandish and ridiculous in a very beautiful way that could so easily go into garish if it doesn't. And as you said, Paul is absolutely having a really banner year and is kind of becoming a famous costume designer finally after years of wonderful work. And I also will say, I think that the Death Becomes her marketing team has done a really phenomenal job in the last two months of highlighting every element of the production. Like, I feel like part of the reason why they got a lighting nomination is a How they were able to sort of make the set feel, like, extended out into the theater and the back. The black lighting they're able to do during things like Madeline's fall and things like that.
- [21:17]
Rob W. Schneider
The smartest thing they did was the video that they produced of, like, analyzing the stairfall and breaking it down. And they had every designer and Chris Gatelli, like, talking about how we all took a part in that, and here's how we all made this, like, one of the most magical moments of the season. I'm like, that is. That's what you need to do because it highlights the lighting, it highlights the costume, and highlights how, like, it was directed. It was brilliant. I was like, you go. You're gonna snatch up something because of that.
- [21:51]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Popovs this, But I love when shows do that, and I miss when the Tonys used to do that Again. Speaking of the aida year, the 2000 Tonys, they had montages where they talked about design, and they had the designers talk about their shows, and they had the composers talk about their scores with clips from the shows interwoven. And I. I'm like. It just gives people who don't know so much that much about what goes on behind the scenes or what goes into making a show. It. I don't know. It's. It's exciting. It's like an insider. You look, and it's fun. So I wish the Tonys would do exactly what death becomes or did with that fall video. I. I'm gonna go against you again with this one. I'm gonna say boop, but my full boopy isn't into it. I'm. I am very aware that death becomes her is, as you said, a coin toss. And again, death becomes her is my vote, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna go with boop on this one.
- [22:45]
Rob W. Schneider
It could happen. Boop has the moments again. If you're thinking about moments that stand out, that Act 2 opener.
- [22:51]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [22:51]
Rob W. Schneider
1000 Betty with the black and white costume reversing to a colored costume is brilliant, and it sticks in your mind, and that could be enough for some people. Even though Death Becomes her maybe has the more consistent costuming throughout.
- [23:04]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I mean, Michelle has that bedazzled vagina hood that, like, how can you. How can you look at.
- [23:11]
Rob W. Schneider
How can you vote against that?
- [23:13]
Matt Koplik
Well, some people just hate women. I think. I think about the. The smoking hole in Jennifer Simard's torso, and I'm like, come on, guys. They. They put a hole in some art.
- [23:25]
Rob W. Schneider
I mean, if Death becomes hers, costuming is making us say the words smoking hole and vagina hood. I think it should win the Tony, especially for its cultural contributions.
- [23:35]
Matt Koplik
Exactly. Especially during this month of pride. You know, it's important. These are the important things. Okay, we'll do costume design of a play, and then we'll take a quick break. Costume design of a play. We have Good night und good luck. The picture of Dorian Gray. The hills of California O Mary and. And stranger things I'm gonna say, oh, Mary. I think that the costumes of Omar are, like, the most prominent design element of the show. It is period. The Tonys love to award period. And it's, like, bright, colorful period, too. It's very silly. Hoop skirts. They love a good hoop skirt. Would I vote for it? Probably. I Think I would. The things like the costumes in Hills of California, Good night and good luck are, you know, period 50s that we also kind of love, but they maybe don't, like, burn in the brain like some others would. Would have. I think I would vote for Omari as well. What do you have here, sir?
- [24:27]
Rob W. Schneider
I am going with the Picture of Dorian Gray because I think Marge Horwell has already won the Olivier for it. Not that that means anything with Tony's, but I think why she won is because her work is so essential in helping Sarah Snook delineate those characters. And it's also really intricate. If you look at the design, she does like that kind of like, white Ziggy stardust from the 1800s jacket with, you know, the flowers stitched in every, like, the. I forget that character's name, but the one with the pink dress and she has, like, bedazzled blood coming out of the same.
- [25:07]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah. Sybil. Vanessa.
- [25:09]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah.
- [25:10]
Matt Koplik
It's really for a dollar. Name a woman.
- [25:14]
Rob W. Schneider
That's not fair. Sarah Stuk is playing it. So they're all women or not. They're all androgynous, whatever it is. But. But I think it's really impressive. Even though it's a solo show, there are probably more costumes designed for that production than most of the other nominees. Maybe Stranger Things has more just because the cast is so huge and there's a lot of changes. But I think Picture of Dorian Gray makes a really compelling winner. And kind of like when the Oscars sometimes pair a lead acting award with, like, hair and makeup, Marge Horwell is kind of serving as, like, that kind of transformative element for Sarah Snook here, and she's helping her adopt all these characters. So I think Dorian Gray takes it.
- [26:01]
Matt Koplik
That's absolutely accurate. And I did forget that Dorian Gray had the Olivier Award from last year, which, as you said, like, it doesn't matter in the sense of, like, no one at the Oliviers are voting at the Tonys, but it sets a precedent for how people feel about that design. Yeah, you're totally right. I would. That would be definitely my second. And honestly, by the time we finish this, I might change all of my predictions. The thing about my predictions for this Tony Sam is that I, weirdly, was more meticulous with my predictions of nominations, and now that, like, the month of May has been so messy, I'm sort of like, oh, no. Boop, boop and boop.
- [26:41]
Rob W. Schneider
A boop sweep a write in for best Musical.
- [26:43]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, exactly. I made a joke to Someone the other day, I was like, don't you. Because they aren't watching the Tonys. And I was like, don't you want to see Audra's face when they open the envelope and go, and the winner is Idina Menzel. And just everyone goes, okay. They cut her in her own.
- [26:59]
Rob W. Schneider
She descends from the redwood tree.
- [27:01]
Matt Koplik
She sure does. She goes, I accept this on behalf of Stella that got that show. Yeah. And the more I'm thinking about it, the more, oh, Mary really only has, like, three major hoop skirts. Got two for Mary and one for Louise.
- [27:16]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah. Well, the thing about why I'm hesitant about Omari, it could win. It's my number two. But the design elements in Omar are kind of like, purposefully and affectionately homespun or like, almost like they're supposed to be community theater designs. And it's like that concept was brilliant, but as we see, it didn't show up in any other design category. So I'm wondering, well, how willing are they going to be to, like, reward that type of design? Like, it might just be the nomination as the reward. Whereas, I think. I don't know, I just feel like Picture Duane Grey has more detailed and kind of outlandish designs going for it.
- [27:56]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Sometimes they go with the simple but effective and they'll take you by surprise. I think with Omari, the other question is, like, there's still buzz around it, but I feel like people are trying to talk themselves out of voting for it right now for anything. I don't know if you've. How many voters you've spoken to, but I've spoken to a few. Or like, the thing with oh, Mary is, well, how important is it really of a play? Like, what. What's its importance? To which I say it's very. Existence is important, but the. That is sort of where a lot of voters are currently at this week of like, well, I mean, how impressive and important is it really? So it's. I. I think that I'm talking myself out of my prediction now and agreeing with you, and I'm actually going to now say, I take it back. I'm going to say Dorian Gray with Omari as a close second. So if I end up being right the first time on. On Sunday, everyone heard it here first, but no, Sam has successfully convinced me. He's. He's a smooth talker, that one. Okay. All right. So that's those categories. Let's take a quick break. You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire.
- [29:16]
Sam Ekman
Summer's here, and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dress season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways in your everyday wardrobe. Discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango Skims, Princess Polly and Madewell. It's easy too, with free shipping and free returns in store order, pickup and more. Shop today in stores online@nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app.
- [29:45]
Matt Koplik
With a Venmo debit card, you can Venmo more than just your friends. You can use your balance in so many ways. You can Venmo everything. Need gas? You can Venmo this. How about snacks? You can Venmo that. Your favorite band's merch? You can Venmo this or their next show? You can Venmo that. Visit Venmo Me Debit to learn more. You can Venmo this or you can Venmo that.
- [30:05]
Sam Ekman
You can Venmo this or you can Venmo that.
- [30:08]
Matt Koplik
The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to license by MasterCard International Incorporated Card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply.
- [30:16]
Sam Ekman
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and.
- [30:38]
Matt Koplik
Eligibility vary by state. And we're back. Okay, so we have scenic design of a musical. We have swept away maybe happy ending one of us to social club death becomes her and just in time. Also pretty solid category. I am going to go with maybe happy ending. I think that of all the designs this is the one that makes the most sense. It is in a lot of ways most set while not feeling like outlandish set. It's it's got spectacle to also having a lot of simplicity and being good for the show. The show is also the front runner and I think this is just an easy category win for them. If I were to vote personally I probably would still vote for it as well. Maybe. No, I take that back. No, I would just vote for maybe happy ending. I don't have a second. Sam.
- [31:26]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, this is a pretty easy call for maybe happy ending to Me, this design is so impressive. I mean, they're all great nominees and they all really achieve their goal for scenic design. But I just think maybe happy ending is kind of ingenious the way it. I mean, it's. It's also just time for Dane Laffrey to win a scenic design. Tony, I think. I guess he technically has a Tony for Parade as a producer, but he's not one as a designer. And it just like I thought, you know, the year when he did Christmas Carol and it was up against Life of PI where I was just like, I can't believe one of these has to lose because they're both just mind blowing. And he kind of took what he did with Christmas Carol and somehow made it even more impressive and astounding. So I think this is kind of one of the few locks of the night for maybe happy ending.
- [32:20]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, agreed. I don't think there's much more to say about that. We could keep talking, but it would just be the same points over and over again. Seemed it's a design of a play. We have the picture of Dorian Gray. Stranger Things English the Hills of California Good night and good luck. I am predicting Stranger Things. I am voting the hills of California, honey.
- [32:38]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh, I think we're both Hills of California lovers and I do have that in second place. I did love the set and, you know, not enough things have sets anymore, btws. So I love when you can walk in and be like, oh, they built the whole Seaside Inn. They sure did. But I don't think it's gonna win. I do think Stranger Things again is gonna complete a trio of wins here. It's just. It's again, the most scenic design.
- [33:08]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I was. I was pleasantly surprised how many voters I spoke to who fondly remembered Hills of California. I was afraid I was gonna have to jog everyone's memory, but that show lurks for quite a few people. I'm unfortunately of the mind that you and I and those voters are in the minority that they. A lot of people just have full on recency bias. If I am wrong with this prediction, and it is Hills of California, I will be so happy. But yeah, that MC Escher set, my God, it's just.
- [33:43]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh, yeah. And it gives us a great Tony moment again with that. The moment on the stairs where Laura Donnelly encounters her younger self. You know, it aids in that moment. So. But I do think I. I've encountered a lot of people who love this play. I just think that when push comes to shove, it is the fact that Stranger Things is more recent and there is just so much like. You remember the freaking Mind Flayer.
- [34:07]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [34:08]
Rob W. Schneider
Coming down out of the ceiling. And it has a million moments like that. So I think it takes it.
- [34:14]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Remind me. Oh, Cabaret won last year for set design because I was trying to make a comparison to something like Back to the Future, which also was like very elaborate, expensive sets. And. And I remember that. That lost. But then I remember. And then I went, oh, right. Well, Cabaret won and that was an overhaul of the theater, so also quite elaborate. So, yeah, it's very rare when simple sets win. Like Bob Crowley for once, is very much an anomaly. Yeah. Okay, so let's go on to orchestrations. We have maybe happy ending. Floyd Collins, Sunset Boulevard, Buena Vista Social Club. Just in time. Again, I am not angry about any of these nominations. The only one I. The only one that I wish could have gotten in here somehow is Death becomes her because they added the fat cowbell, which we haven't had on Broadway probably since Dream Girls. I informed Julia Madison of this and she said, yes, I. I'm aware of how important that cowbell is. It's. That's just my only thing. But everything else I really. I really like here. Oh, also, I guess orchestrations for old friends, but I think that's really more sound design than anything. Talk to me, Sam. Talk to me about your winner. Your what? Your personal pick. What?
- [35:29]
Rob W. Schneider
I will put a caveat out there before I talk about it that I, as far as predictions go, hate this category because I try as I might to find any kind of voting or history that will give us some tea leaves as to what they will choose. There is none. And every time I think, oh, cool, so they're just going to check off the favorite for best musical. They don't do that. When I think, oh, cool, so the revival that's been reinvented will get it, then they don't do that. And so it just seems completely random and there's not a lot of years of voting history to go off of. So I will talk about this, but, you know, maybe don't listen to me because I frequently get this one wrong. But I am going with Buena Vista Social Club because the band is such a prominent element of that piece. I think they're the driving force of that musical. They, you know, the start was at the start of Act 2. They get like a standing ovation. It just is really infectious music. And it's. It feels very full and vibrant. And because that is sticking out to me, that's what I'm going with that being said, I get this wrong a lot. So this is often the bane of my predictions. So it could. They could go instead with Just In Time. They could go for maybe Happy Ending, if that's what they're doing for Best Musical. I don't know, but I'm going with Buena Vista Social Club.
- [36:53]
Matt Koplik
Is that what your personal vote would be as well?
- [37:00]
Rob W. Schneider
I think maybe I'm going with it because that's my personal vote. I think that would be my personal vote. Yeah.
- [37:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I mean, they're really similar to. There are a couple of other categories where you go, oh, there's. There's a narrative for each of these to win. I think the only one I can confidently say it won't happen for is Floyd Collins, which is a beautiful nomination. I love those expanded orchestrations, but I just, I have a feeling we're going to see Floyd Collins walk away with at most one Tony at most. And that is not this one. We'll talk about her in a second. But yeah, I think for me it comes down to maybe Happy Ending Just In Time and probably Buena Vista. I feel like voters are going to award the sound design of Sunset over the orchestrations for that orchestra sounding so lush. It's also not an elaborately different orchestration from the original. It's just sort of different charts. But in a lot of ways, Jonathan Tunick kind of won for the exact same thing with Merrilee. The difference is that Jonathan Tunick is a little more beloved of a legend than I would argue Andrew and David Cullen are, I'm gonna say, because maybe Happy Ending is the only Best Score nominee here, which I think actually just for me confidently predicts maybe Happy Ending for score. I'm gonna go with. I'm gonna actually, I'm. I'm gonna go with Just In Time. I don't agree with that at all. And I'm going to regret saying that in 24 hours when I'm editing this episode, but I gotta go with my gut on one thing today and not backtrack over Sam. Smooth talking. I personally think I would Come to.
- [38:48]
Rob W. Schneider
The Dark side with me.
- [38:49]
Matt Koplik
Come to the Dogs. And I think, I mean, I personally probably would vote for. For Floyd, but yeah, I think Just In Time and Buena Vista are very similar beasts in terms of why they're in there. And I can't see Just In Time going home completely empty handed. And I feel like this is a category where that could happen. Like this is. It's very much giving me Girl from the north country, mj vibes of that kind of jukebox musical.
- [39:17]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah.
- [39:18]
Matt Koplik
And they do love big band. It's sort of like halfway between some, like, at Hot and Girl from the north country in terms of, like, this win. But on the other hand, I agree with you. Like, Buena Vista Social Club is about the band, and that's an easy way for voters to kind of think about that. Yeah, I. But then I think about those strings in the top of maybe happy ending. The But.
- [39:40]
Rob W. Schneider
I know it but. And it's also. This is like, sound design, a, you know, peer only category, so it makes it near impossible.
- [39:50]
Matt Koplik
Exactly.
- [39:51]
Rob W. Schneider
You know what is going to happen.
- [39:52]
Matt Koplik
Victoria Clark is not voting for this category, everybody.
- [39:54]
Rob W. Schneider
Right.
- [39:55]
Matt Koplik
She's not a. She's not an orchestrator. Yeah. I'm gonna. I'm gonna say just in time. With Buena as my backup, Floyd is my personal vote. All right, choreography. Okay, now we're getting to some real nitty gritties here. We have Josh Burgas, which I didn't know until a month ago was pronounced for Goss. I've been calling him Brigades or Bergasi for, like, years. Until I watched an interview with Megan Hilton, she called him Josh Burgas. And I was like, okay, fuck my drag. Josh Burgas for Smash, Camille A. Brown for Gypsy. Patricia Delgado and Justin Peck for Buena Vista Social Club. Chris Catelli for Death Becomes her. And Jerry Mitchell for Boop. I know. He's been winning all the precursors. I'm gonna say you never bet against Justin Peck at the Tonys anymore.
- [40:37]
Rob W. Schneider
I know. And I. I have him winning, too. I do think this is a very close call.
- [40:42]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [40:42]
Rob W. Schneider
Again, Boop. Making everything a close call between Buena Vista Social Club and Boop. I just. I. It's very tough for me to call, but I think Justin Peck, he's gonna have a perfect score. 3 for 3 winning.
- [40:58]
Matt Koplik
And Patricia Delgado. We must not forget Patricia.
- [41:01]
Rob W. Schneider
I know. Yes, she's there. I'm just talking about how I hear you.
- [41:05]
Matt Koplik
No, he's. I think. I do think he's about to be three for three. And the thing is, I'm not mad about it, because I do. I personally find this to be his best work on stage so far. And I am perfectly willing to acknowledge that Patricia Delgado's larger contribution this time probably helps me with that. So I'm not mad about him winning for this is probably my favorite contender in the category with Boop. Second. But also, the Tonys do really like Jerry, and he hasn't won since Kinky Boots. So, like, it doesn't feel over. Over rewarding in a lot of ways. Who would have thought that boop would be like, the little stinker of this Tony's with its three nominations be like, but we're gonna come fighting. We're gonna bite at all of your ankles. Yeah. Would you say that Buena Vista is your personal vote as well, or is that Camille a Brown for Gypsy?
- [41:53]
Rob W. Schneider
No, I think, you know, it's hard for. For boop with me because I feel like it's the same kind of argument with, excuse me, it's costume design nomination, where I feel like boop has a couple numbers to me that stood out as, like, wow, that is such a great showstopper number. And the choreography is thrilling. But I feel like Buena Vista Social Club is the more consistent of the dance musicals where it really weaves a through line and every single moment is so well thought through.
- [42:26]
Matt Koplik
I agree.
- [42:26]
Rob W. Schneider
So I would go with that as my personal winner.
- [42:29]
Matt Koplik
I also wonder, by the way, I mean, she's. She's not winning. I just wanted to do a quick check for a second for my own. Okay. She wasn't nominated for once on this island, but I was about to say, like, is Camille Brown about to lose to Justin Peck three times in a row? No, she just. Just two times in a row for a second, I was like.
- [42:47]
Rob W. Schneider
I will say, though, speaking of things changing over the course of a season and week to week, I have encountered more people, like, this week recently who have, like, completely changed their tune on Camille's choreography and really appreciate it and are, like, considering it for their vote.
- [43:05]
Matt Koplik
Good. So things change. I'm not. Listen, I'm not here to yuck anybody's yum, but yeah, I will say, people, there have been some changes in the air on a lot of different opinions on shows and. And I. I'm a big Camille fan. My. My dislike of her work on Gypsy does not detract from my love of her work on choir boy and once on this island and yada, yada, yada, yada. Yeah, I. I probably still would vote for Buena Vista social Club. I do think that Boop is, like, nipping at them heels, but, yeah, once again, must go with. With legut. So I'm going to say that that's. That Buena Vista is going to win and does also have my vote. Okay, moving right along. Do you want to do directors or do you want to do book and score? Sam, which one first?
- [43:55]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh, book and score. Let's get that over with.
- [43:59]
Matt Koplik
Okay. For best book, we do have Will Aronson And Hugh park for maybe Happy Ending. David Cumming, Felix Hagan, Natasha Hodgson and Zoe Roberts for Operation Mincemeat. Itamar Moses for Dead Outlaw. Marco Panetti for Death Becomes her. And Marco Ramirez for Buena Vista Social Club. There's been a lot of talk this month of whether maybe happy or people were wondering if maybe happy ending was going to do the triple crown of musical score and book. Oh, could there be something that could sweep knock in there? And this has been a category that people feel maybe happy ending is probably most vulnerable. What, what would we say that that's sort of been a vibe in your circles as well that people feel that.
- [44:49]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, I, I actually, I think maybe happy ending is vulnerable here. And I think that's because it is a very wide open field. And from what I'm seeing, basically anything except Buena Vista could win this. I truly think that it's like a four way race right now. I'm kind of going out on a crazy limb for Marco Pinet for Death Becomes her and I feel like Death Becomes her. Or Operation Mincemeat could really sneak in here because there is a history of the funniest book winning in this category. Your Gentleman's Guide, tootsie. It's like an easy way, especially if you're not a writer and have never written a book of a musical. You can like identify like, oh, that the jokes made me laugh, you know, and they have a. They have a leg up in that sense. And I know people who are voting for both of those. That said, I think maybe Happy Ending and Dead Outlaw are still super strong. I feel like Dead Outlaw's book is sticking out more with critics rather than necessarily other people in the industry. But I. It's very hard for me to call between those four because I think all of them have very strong supporters in this category.
- [46:08]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, yeah, this is similar. There are a couple of categories where I do think whoever wins is winning with like 29 of the vote. And yeah, it's. It's not gonna be a landslide for, for anyone. I think what helps me be Happy Ending is it is the sweet show that like comes together is very tightly done. And a lot of times voters will acknowledge when a show's book, like, is concise and flows in and out of a show perfectly well and is very moving. Like, I feel like it goes one of two ways. It's like, how much did the show make me cry and how much did the show make me laugh? And if it can go either way, then I'm happy and I Feel like with maybe Happy Ending. What it has predecessors that are in maybe Happy Ending. Safer would be something like a Fun home or a band's Visit, ironically written by Moses. But like, the. The quieter, simpler, more human shows that win sort of like, in this overwhelming sweep. I feel like Death Becomes her is more solid than Mincemeat in terms of, like, the tootsie producer's root. Um, I feel like Mincemeat is more of like a. Like a something rotten kind of situation where it's like, those who find it funny find it very funny, and those who don't really are turned off by it. And I, like. I agree with you. I think that Buena Vista Social Club is very much out of the loop here. As much as I enjoyed that show and I was not as down on that book when I saw it as others were when I was walking in, it is absolutely held together by Scotch tape. And I don't think any person's gonna see that show and be like, you know, what stood out the most? The script.
- [47:53]
Rob W. Schneider
Which, I mean, to be fair, isn't really the point of that show. So it's fine. Like, I think it does what it needs to do. But, yeah, I. I agree. I think, like, I have them ranked right now. Death Becomes her, then maybe Happy Ending, Dead Outlaw and Operation Mincemeat. Yeah, but it's kind of like. I think Operation Mincemeat would be fourth for me just because, again, of the two funny ones, it would be people's second choice. But Death Becomes her is, like, funny pulling apart a classic. Maybe Happy Ending is the very touching human story with a great structure. Dead Outlaw would be the really out there concept that people would reward.
- [48:32]
Matt Koplik
Sure. Yeah.
- [48:34]
Rob W. Schneider
I think that they all have a shot.
- [48:35]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I feel like Dead Outlaw from when I've been talking to people, people really admire it, but not enough to vote for it. Whereas, like, critics, like, really went to bat for. And I really liked Dead Outlaw. If you guys want to listen to that review episode, you can. I. I was bigger on it downtown than I was uptown. And I don't think anything's really changed so much as it was new to me Downtown. I didn't know what to expect. And then I had a year to build it up in my head of like, oh, my God, that thing I saw Downtown was just amazing. And then I saw it on Broadway, and while I still really liked it, I was like, oh, it's a bit drier than I remembered. It's a bit. It moves a little slower than I remember. So Yeah, I know. So you're gonna. So your gut is telling you death becomes. Or that is what you're predicting.
- [49:16]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah. And especially because I think there was, like, a recent upswing for death becomes her, Especially after the recent road conference, where I think a lot of people fell in love with it very quickly. And I don't think it's going to be scooping up a ton of wins, but I do feel like the love I've heard from it makes it poised to stage an upset in at least one major category. And so I'm thinking this is the major category it happens in.
- [49:46]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. The thing that makes me nervous is I think about this past year's Oscars and all of the outcomes that could have happened. People were going like, oh, my God, it's so up in the air. And then it ended up kind of not being. And I worry. I worry, Samuel, if the Tonys are going to be like, we. We teased you. We tease you with a bunch of crazy. And then they end up giving us, like, down the ballot by the numbers. So they're like, book could go to anyone, then becomes like, maybe had. Maybe happy ending, wins seven Tonys, and, like, good for them. Less. Less insane than I was expecting.
- [50:19]
Rob W. Schneider
And I'm sure that'll be what happens, but this is more fun to talk about.
- [50:23]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely. Absolutely. Tootley, I am going to predict. Everything you said is absolutely true. And I am. I've been in those rooms talking to people about it. I think, because I haven't heard overwhelmingly, death becomes different from people. It's been kind of spread out among death dead. And mincemeat a little less on me, but, like, sort of spread around those things again. I'm going to go with maybe happy ending that I think will eke out with, like, 30 of the vote, because no one I've spoken to has disliked the book. It just hasn't been the thing that they remember the most about it. But I think when they look back and they think about. I really loved that show. They're like, well, if I loved it as much as I said that I did, it's because of all the things. But I do have. Death becomes there as my second. I think I actually have mincemeat at my third. I used to. I used to have Dead Outlaws my second, like, a month ago, and now I've. I've knocked it down a few pegs. That means nothing. I. I didn't say anything real. I'm. I'm predicting maybe with death as my second. And I think if I were to vote. If I were to personally vote, I think I would actually weirdly vote for Death Becomes Her. Is that. Is that crazy? Am I the drama?
- [51:41]
Rob W. Schneider
No, I think I might too. Just because I liked the way that he was able to recontextualize certain things. I don't know. I would have a lot of trouble choosing between Death Becomes her and maybe Happy Ending. They are both very, very different projects. Yes.
- [51:59]
Matt Koplik
I like that we have two very different shows sort of competing this way. And it is. It is not a copy paste job like a lot of other musical adaptations and movies have been in the past. So I really appreciate that. Okay, moving on. Best original score, we have Dead Outlaw, Eric, Ella Pena. Pena Pena, David Yazbek, Death Becomes Her, Emerson's Own Noel Carey and Julia Madison. Woo. Woo. Maybe Heavy Ending. Will Aronson and Hugh Park, Operation Mincemeat, David Cumming, Felix Hagan, Natasha Hodgson and Zoe Roberts. And then Real Women have Curves. Joy Huerta and Benjamin Velez. Also very solid category. Very happy for Real women's nomination here. Juggling, juggling, juggling, juggling. That's my. The one song I remember that in the Real Women have Curves. I am gonna go fully on maybe Happy Ending with this. I feel like the Internet tried to trick me three weeks ago that this was a messier category and that anything could happen. And I am just fully locked in and predicting maybe happy Ending. If there's. If I've already said there was an upset, it would probably actually be Dead Outlaw, of all things, weirdly enough.
- [53:09]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, I think so.
- [53:10]
Matt Koplik
If I weren't. If I personally weren't voting for maybe Happy Ending, which is what my personal vote would be, I would actually vote for Death Becomes her, which I actually think has some of the best lyrics of the season. The lyrics for let's Run Away Together for me are like top tier Chef's Kiss, like, go fuck yourselves, Nolan. Julia. Those lyrics are incredible.
- [53:29]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, I have. Death Becomes her is in third place for me right now. But I do think, like, it's amazing the jokes that they were able to, like, get in there that you kind of don't even realize until it's like just whizzed by you, which I really enjoy. I have maybe Happy ending getting in here pretty easily. I think the only thing that could stop them is perhaps the fact that I feel like in terms of maybe Happy Ending's Tony season, I don't think the composers are quite as public a figure on the scene as Michael Arden is or Darren Criss is. I feel Like Michael Arden, Darren Criss, and even Dane Laffrey have really become the kind of talking heads for that show. And the ones who are most out there. That's not to say they can't win score, just in terms of the behind the scenes campaign of it all. If there is kind of like hometown favoritism, which sometimes happens at the Tonys, then Mr. Yazbeck could come through for Dead Outlaw. But I feel I'm finding that people. I think Dead Outlaw's score is more polarizing than any of his other previous scores. And people are kind of falling into love it or hate it camps, which is why I have maybe Happy ending pretty comfortably ahead.
- [54:51]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, maybe Happy ending also just has, like, a very sweeping kind of sound to it, in addition to having, like a little quirky, modern musical edge to it. But they're like, the second half of that show is very sweepy, romantic music, and that's Tony. Voters are a sucker for that. And so I do think that's gonna be their get. I think the downside with something like a Death Becomes her is the score is so smart that it takes a lot of listens for voters to get. Get how dense that score is. And that has gone against Tony nominees in the past. Things like, speaking of David Yazbeck, that was something that I think kind of went against him for something like Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, where, like, that score was so versatile and so packed with jokes that voters in the theater didn't totally get how good it was. And it took multiple listens for them to get there. And some people get resentful when they're like, why should it take me four listens to know that a score is good? I'm like, it's more that it takes you four listens to unpack all the treasures of the score score. But people don't. People don't think that way.
- [55:52]
Rob W. Schneider
They're like really verbose scores that I think in addition to what you're talking about, sometimes the magic of them really comes out more when you see it on stage, which is like, duh, that's how it should be versus listening to the score on the cast album.
- [56:07]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. But I think that's also just the trouble with any comedic score is it's more of a listening experience than a viewing experience. Because I was trying to think of, like, what's the last score that you could argue was comedic that won. And I feel like that is it like Gentleman's Guide. I mean, Gentleman's Guy didn't win. They lost to Bridges. Oh, yeah, Yeah. I would think that it's actually probably Avenue Q. That's the last comedic score to win 21 years ago. Isn't that wild?
- [56:40]
Rob W. Schneider
Wow.
- [56:40]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, because, like, no one's going to talk, like, say, kinky Boots. How funny is she? Like, that's more of like a peppy, you know, sizzly score. Oh, no, no, sorry. I take it back. Book of Mormon. Book of Mormon's the last comedic score to win in 2011, so, yeah, I take that back. But still.
- [56:54]
Rob W. Schneider
Still, that's a long time now. I mean, we're in college because we're old now.
- [56:59]
Matt Koplik
We are old. And Book of Mormon was one of those shows that kind of did sweep. Not, like, not a full blown sweep. It didn't win everything, but it won nine Tonys and was just such a gargantuan hit that that was just an easy win because, like, what were they up against? They were up against Sister Act, Women on the Verge, and Scottsboro Boys and as well, Scott's Roboys is a. Is a beautiful show. They had been closed for so long and no one was voting for Sister act. And I love the score for Women on the Verge, but that show was messy and no one was voting for her either. So. Yeah, makes sense. Okay, let's do directors and then we'll take another break. Okay. So director direction of a play. We have Nud Adams for English. Get your nut off. Sam Mendes for the Hills of California, Sam Pinkleton for oh, Mary, Donya Tamer for John Proctor is the villain, and Kip Williams for the Picture of Dorian Gray. Fun fact. Well, one of the events I was at recently, Donna Tamer was at the event with who I now realize was the playwright of John Proctor as the villain. But I didn't know it at the time, but I went up to her and I was like, I need to tell you, like, I. I've become such a fan of yours. I had never seen your work prior to Covid and as, like, I had like a 1, 2, 3 with you. I had Jonah, I then had the Outsiders, and then I had John Proctor. I was like. And, you know, I went into John Proctor and I went, if this is good, I am in on Danya Taymor forever. And I was like, and it was good, so I'm in on you forever. And she said, thank you so much. And then the playwright just kind of was clapping along to everything I said and then I walked away and I was like, oh, that was. That was the Tony nominated playwright. I should probably have told her. The play was good, but that's. That's me in a nutshell. Who do you have here for this one?
- [58:45]
Rob W. Schneider
For me, it is Mr. Sam Pinkleton all the way. And not just because he's also my namesake, but I think he just executes, like, Cole Escola's demented, insane high camp, like, better than anyone possibly could. A lot of people talk about, obviously, Cole is essential to that piece and why people love it in terms of their voice, but I think Sam Pinkleton's direction is just as essential. And without someone. I think camp is really hard to do. And without someone who can walk that line, the whole thing can fall apart and just be really awful really quickly.
- [59:27]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [59:27]
Rob W. Schneider
And considering how popular the show is and how well he did with it, he's. He's getting the vote, I think.
- [59:34]
Matt Koplik
And with how successful it's been when Cole has not been in the show for sure. Yeah. I think, like, that. That age is a testament to how strong the script is and how good Sam's direction of it is. Did you see Betty or Titus in the show?
- [59:49]
Rob W. Schneider
No. I'm so mad.
- [59:50]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, Betty was really good. I didn't get to see Titus, but Titus is coming back. So easy to see that. But with Betty was so fascinating because. And this has nothing to do with necessarily Sam specifically, but with Cole, I described it as Cole performed Mary Todd Lincoln in a sort of Charles Bushy drag, like, winky, dry tone. And Betty Gilpin did it in a very hyper, hysterical, feminine tone, like in John Waters movies. And it was cool to see how it worked both ways and actually how certain things in the play affected audiences more. Like, the audience was actually more emotionally invested with Betty because of how she did it. And so when the twist happens with the, you know, assassination with Cole, everyone sort of laughed and laughed and laughed, but with Betty, everyone, like, stood up and cheered. It was.
- [60:39]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh, wow, that's cool.
- [60:41]
Matt Koplik
It was cool. Yeah. I'm gonna say Sam Pinkleton, too. I think someone like a Kip Williams is. It's very impressive work. And I think that this is a case where people would look at maybe on the technical level of what Kip does, but I do find Dorian Gray to be a rather cold production. And the fact that. And starts to wear out its welcome in the last 20 minutes. And I'm sure that others would feel the same way, because when people are talking about Dorian Gray, they're talking about Sarah and, like, kind of Sarah alone.
- [61:09]
Rob W. Schneider
I mean, I do. I will say I do know people voting for Kip Williams. So he's in my third place slot, and so I don't think it's like a zero percent chance.
- [61:18]
Matt Koplik
Would you say Daniel's in your second slot? Yeah, I want. I wonder about John Proctor, and actually, we'll talk about this more as we get closer to play, but I feel like splitting a vote doesn't. Isn't real, but when there are two options that people are. I. You would argue for the lack of a better word, split on which one they would vote for. Again, that's like a third option that has not the majority of the vote, but a slightly larger percentage than those two can kind of clear through. So when people talk about split, they usually talk about people, like, from the same show nominated, not, like, two different options. Yeah, yeah, I think I'm. I'm going with Sam as well. That would. I think that would be my vote as well. I do want to give a shout out to Nut Adams for English, a production that I really loved and an ensemble work that I thought was great. Okay, moving on. Best direction of a musical. We have Sahim Ali for Buena Vista Social Club, Michael Arden for maybe Happy Ending, David Cromer for Dead Outlaw, Chris Catelli for Death Becomes her, and Jamie Lloyd for Sunset Boulevard. Two weeks ago, my prediction would have been Jamie, and my vote would have been Michael. Today, my vote and my prediction are Michael Arden, Same Girl.
- [62:35]
Rob W. Schneider
This is one of the categories where there has, I feel, like, been a definite swing in, like, the past week, probably. And Michael Arden, I think, is pulling ahead, and I think it has something to do. Just, like, a lot of people just, I think, wait until the end to turn in their ballots. There's, like, always a sprinkling at the beginning when, like, the email's first sent, and then everyone else mostly waits until the end and turns it in at the last minute. And it takes them a while to settle on things, and I think they're just, like, finally settling into. Yeah, maybe Happy Ending is my show. And I think Sunset is, like, just, like, the divisiveness of that is a little bit of a hindrance.
- [63:17]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I'm gonna show my hand for a second and say, I still do think Sunset is winning revival, but I don't. I don't think the direction is going to happen. And I think that's, in a lot of ways, a message of, like, we're voting for you, but don't get confused. We're not obsessed with you, but you are winning. And I think, like, the fewer awards that Sunset wins, the more, like, clear that becomes of like, you are the winner, but you are not our winner. But that's. Yeah, that. We'll get to that in a second. But yeah, I just. The last two, even before the drama desk wins, which is when a lot of the Discord Channel decided that Michael Arden was winning. Everyone I'd be been speaking to, the question came down to, like, are you voting for Arden? Are you voting for Jamie Lloyd?
- [64:03]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah.
- [64:03]
Matt Koplik
And Michael Arden's only real negative was like, he did win two years ago, but it wasn't a. Like a. It wasn't a. He doesn't deserve it. So soon after it was a, am I okay do it. Like, do I feel basic voting for the same dude twice in three years? And so I think the more voters realize, like, no, I really did, like, maybe happy ending and Michael's work really was so special, the more it is that he's gonna win. Yeah. No one. No one was talking about in a way of, like, he doesn't deserve to. They're like, am I the person who's willing to vote for the same man twice?
- [64:40]
Rob W. Schneider
Well, I think people have an issue. They, like, have a hesitation when there's a really recent Tony win.
- [64:46]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [64:47]
Rob W. Schneider
Especially, like, you know, with, like, Lindsay Mendez being the only person, only actor for Merrily not winning, there was like, another option. It's like, oh, well. And that was like, a pretty decent sized gap. I think she won 2017 for Carousel. But they were like, well, I not too long ago voted for her and gave her a Tony. And now I have this, like, Broadway vet who's amazing, who's been in the business forever, who doesn't have a Tony with Keisha Lewis. So there's, like, a clear other option there, and that can be, like, a big factor in people's minds of like, oh, I just gave it to this person. But, like, when I was making my, like, lineup at Gold Derby, that was the only reason I was like, oh, well, Michael Arden would be my choice here because it's just so impressive how he strung all this together. But he just won. And so I feel like they're not going to give him one right away, but I think people are finally over that.
- [65:39]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And to your point earlier of how, like, Michael and Darren are really kind of at the forefront of promoting the show. They are, but they're not really talking about themselves. They're talking about their collaborators, which, a, I think is very smart because it allows people to hear more about all the other elements of the show that they could possibly vote for. But it also doesn't make them come off conceited. Like, they're like. Michael's not really talking a lot about his own work. He's talking about his collaboration with the writers. He's talking about his collaboration with the design team. Darren's talking about Helen. He's talking about the understudies. And it's, It's. It gives. Whether it's intentional or not, it does give a lot of voters the aura of, like, I'm. I feel okay voting for them or voting for Michael again, because he's. He doesn't seem like the douchey director who, like, feels he deserves it. He's just. He just genuinely deserves it, you know?
- [66:29]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah. Maybe it's on that. Describing his work. No, I've interviewed him a few times now, and it's always wonderful to talk to him because he's great at describing his work in a really accessible way. And you're right to your point. Is not about himself and the trials of himself, but, excuse me, allergies. I'm just like Audra McDonald. It's affecting me greatly. We're the same. But, yeah, he's very good at making that accessible and making it about the whole collaborative process.
- [67:00]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I think it helps that he is an. Well, I mean, he's still an actor in a lot of ways, but like, has spent a lot of his career being an actor transitioning into directing and is like a genuine theater nerd. And so he doesn't talk about it like an esoteric. And I'm from on high as the helmet of this show. It's just like a genuine passion for making something cool. And I really. I really. I really appreciate that about him. I was at an event that he was being honored at back in October before maybe Happy Ending went into previews. And Nicky M. James gave a really lovely speech about him, about sort of his process and what he's like as a director. And before I even saw maybe Happy Ending, I was like, I don't know, maybe the show's gonna be pretty good. Because the way they're talking about him, seems like he knows what he's doing. And then suprise, surprise. It was good. All right, so that's director. Let's take a quick break, and then we'll get to the acting categories and the top four. All right, let's take a quick break. You're the top. Yeah, you're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire.
- [68:09]
Sam Ekman
This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon music and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more.
- [68:36]
Matt Koplik
Get into your body's vitals with the Vitals app on Apple Watch. The Vitals app tracks key overnight metrics so you can spot changes in your health before you feel them. The Vitals app ON Apple Watch iPhone XS are later required. The Vitals app is for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. I think you're on mute. Workday starting to sound the same. I think you're on mute. Find something that sounds better for your career on LinkedIn with LinkedIn job collections, you can browse curated collections by relevant industries and benefits like Flexpto or hybrid workplaces so you can find the right job for you. Get started@LinkedIn.com jobs finding where you fit. LinkedIn knows how. And we're back. All right, play our musical. Which one do you want first? Sam.
- [69:42]
Rob W. Schneider
Tackle Play, because I have some chaotic things to say.
- [69:45]
Matt Koplik
Okay, featured actor or featured actress?
- [69:50]
Rob W. Schneider
For most chaotic, let's go to featured actress, please.
- [69:53]
Matt Koplik
Fantastic. We have Ms. Tala Ash in English, Jessica Hecht for Eureka Day, Marja Nichette for English, Finestrasa for John Proctor as the villain Kara Young for Purpose. I also want to say I'm really into this category. The Hills of California ladies omission aside, I really like it. I also famously, when I saw Purpose, Carrie Young was out. Her understudy was on. And I know Carrie Young brings Carrie Young to every meal and she's very special. But I was not as into her character as I was into Ms. Alana Arenas's character. So I'm, I am kind of predicting this category. A little hobbled here. But you go first because I'm assuming you did see Ms. Car Young.
- [70:34]
Rob W. Schneider
I did. And this really, you know, we have the option of expanded categories with ties and this. I really wish they rigged so that there was a tie for like 10 people because Alana Reynas, Leanne Best, Amalia Yu. This category, like, had so many options.
- [70:55]
Matt Koplik
Bianca Lee, Helena Wilson, Ophelia Loveybond.
- [70:59]
Rob W. Schneider
Amazing. Yes.
- [70:59]
Matt Koplik
All of them. All of them. Life for all of them.
- [71:02]
Rob W. Schneider
I say I think Leanne Best should get a special Tony award for best entrance of any character when she just comes in and like annihilates everyone verbally. Just really, really gave me life. But I am going out on a limb because I think this category is very open. I don't think anyone has. This is going to be one where it's like you won with 25% of the vote because it's so split.
- [71:27]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [71:28]
Rob W. Schneider
And I think Finestrasa right now has the edge.
- [71:34]
Matt Koplik
Interesting talk. More on that, please.
- [71:36]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah. Go out on this chaotic journey with me because I have been feeling a lot of love for John Proctor's the villain. And to the extent where it is making me think like, it's going to surprise somewhere. And last year I did not follow my gut when I knew that the Outsiders had this like, last minute surge for best musical. And I'm like, well, the only other thing it's like guaranteed is like lighting design. So it's gonna spoil somewhere in like an acting race directing score. And I just knew it was going to be Danya and I didn't switch my prediction and I hated myself. And I feel like John Proctor is going to pick up something and this is a place to do it because I think Kara Young, I know we just debated this whole, like, recency win bias, but she did just win on a Tony last year, her first Tony. And there are like other, you know, very viable options here. So I'm not like, her popularity should not be discounted. We can't undersell her popularity in, in this industry. But I, I don't know that she has this on lock just because she's carry on because she just won. Jessica Hecht would make a lot of sense because she's like an actor's actor. A lot of performers just really love her and look up to her. She has, I think, the biggest Tony moment TM out of any of these women with her big monologue at the end, which was so devastating. But Eureka Day has been closed for a bit. I don't know that when it closed, people walked away saying, like, this is gonna be the show that we must remember with a lot of awards at awards time. So it's not like I don't think anyone's guaranteed. And then Marjan and Tala, I think they have a big Tony moment, but they share it. So I think they're going to split support from English fans quite a lot.
- [73:40]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [73:40]
Rob W. Schneider
Which leaves me with Finestrasa, who is in an immensely popular play that is still open. I would argue that she's basically the co lead. I could even argue that her part's bigger than Sadie sinks.
- [73:53]
Matt Koplik
Oh, her part is absolutely bigger than Sadie.
- [73:55]
Rob W. Schneider
She really drives the story. She creates such interesting physicality. Like the journey you watch her go on is really fascinating. And I think she could be where people decide they want to vote for John Proctor as the villain.
- [74:13]
Matt Koplik
I love this reality that you're in. It's. It's a reality that I would be happy about. I loved finish.
- [74:20]
Rob W. Schneider
Are you gonna accuse me of being a Valentina right now in my own reality?
- [74:24]
Matt Koplik
This doesn't go with my fantasy. No, I. Me being in the bottom does not go with my fantasy. No. I love Finna Strassa in John Proctor as a villain. And I am convinced that her Tony nomination and Taylor Trench's Tony nomination I personally manifested through my podcast. I'm also convinced that I manifested Gray Henson's drama desk nomination. Thank you. As well as Natalie Walker's drama desk nomination. But that's a story for another day. I could see that happening. I think with. Again, part of me wants to go see Purpose again, to see Carrot in the role. The thing is that even when I saw it with a very wonderful actress in place of Kara that day, I just didn't. The role was. I just thought the role was fine. And I'm sure Kara spins her magic with it. But again, like, I walked out talking about Morgan, played by Alana Arenas. Like, that was the. Not just, like, between the two of them. Of all the characters, that was the one that did it for me. And I think sometimes the problem when going into a show is truly expectation. And with Kara, you know, doing really well this season with Purpose and having done so well in the past, they're. I think you run the risk. And Purpose also getting the Pulitzer. You run the risk of voters going in expecting to feel a certain kind of way about it, and if they don't, they can sort of immediately wash their hands of it and find. Look for something else that does excite them. As you said, John Proctor is the villain is sort of like a late in the game surge of a lot of interest from voters. I think John Proctor is the villain's only big or not. Its biggest detriment is I do think that there are older voters that won't get it and won't warm to it. Whether that is a majority of voters, I couldn't say. I think that at the very least, voters can be in agreement about performances. And specifically Finna is a performance. I agree with you. Like, of all the nominees in that from that show, I think she's the one that the majority of voters would Be in agreement on. I think Hecht, her biggest perk is that she has been around for a long time. She's been nominated a few times. We all love her. She is like the thing from that production that we all remember. I'm in the minority that I walked away from English and was like, tala Ash for president. So like I. If you're like, Matt, you have to choose between her.
- [76:44]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh, no, she was amazing. Yeah.
- [76:46]
Matt Koplik
But like, I feel like similar to other categories, if you're like, you have to choose between the two co stars. A lot of people would be like, don't make me choose. I'd be like, boom. I know. I know exactly who I'm voting for. And for me it would be Tala. But I don't know. I don't know who I'm predicting here. I think I am gonna go with my cynical side and it's not because she's bad, but just because I'm gonna go with people. Going with what? Where the narrative is heading, which is Kara Young. I'm going to say my personal vote is finna and I want to put an asterisk next to Tala and be like, y' all remember this bitch because she's coming for your supper later on down the line. But that, that's where I'm at right now. I don't feel confident about that at all. Sam, just so you know.
- [77:34]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh, no. I think this category is ridiculous.
- [77:39]
Matt Koplik
It's.
- [77:39]
Rob W. Schneider
Anyone could win probably. But I think. I don't know. I've convinced myself I'm in my fantasy.
- [77:46]
Matt Koplik
If you can't convince yourself, how the hell are you going to convince somebody else again? This is a write in vote. They're going to open up the envelope and be like Stella the redwood from redwood. That wasn't even. I mean, that wasn't even a play. Okay, Best featured actor in a play. We have Glenn Davis for purpose. Gabriel Ebert for John Proctor as the villain. Francis Drew for yellowface. Bob Odenkirk for Glengarry Glen Ross. Conrad. Rick Amora for oh Mary. I'm going to start with my personal pick which would be Francis Jew for yellowface. Although I do also want to say how thrilled I am that Glenn Davis is a Tony nominee. Loved her in downstate. Loved her in this. She's. She's the moment. She's an icon. I do think it's down to Frances and Conrad. I am going to say Francis also because I feel this is. It's giving me pearly victorious. Deja vu of the PBS broadcast Coming out right as the nominations are happening, voters can watch it. They're holding screenings of the PBS broadcast for voters. Francis has been around for a while. I ultimately think that Yellowface is going to get the best revival. Tony. I know it hasn't won much up until now, but I think with if Yellowface wins revival, I feel like Francis Shu wins along with it. I don't hold firm on that. I think Conrad is absolutely coming to clear the table if. If Francis leaves his chair for a second. But, yeah, my personal vote is Francis. I am predicting Francis because I'm just going with my heart here. Sam.
- [79:19]
Rob W. Schneider
This is another one where I feel like it's a coin toss between Francis, you and Conrad. Rick Amora. Um, no disrespect to the other people. Bob Odenkirk. Sorry to this man, but I do think it's between those two. I mean, to your point, with the screenings of Yellowface, like, I already, when I saw Yellowface during press week, like, fell in love with his performance in the, you know, subsequent time. They have done a great job at getting him out there telling his story. He's just a very endearing fan figure. I think when he talk like, you just want to listen to him and he's so likable, and he's been in this industry for a long time. He has a great story. And, you know, when I went back, I, like, I already loved his performance. And then I got to go to the premiere of that screening of the PBS screening, and the. He got the biggest applause out of anyone in the entire cast. And he got the biggest laughs of anyone in the entire cast. It's a performance that I think translates really well on screen. That doesn't always happen when they just tape something that's a stage performance. So I'm hesitant just because it's closed and Conrad is now back in Omari and is very popular. He's also making the rounds a lot. It's a very big performance, which usually helps you win, but I think Francis just has, like, he's like, the heart of the show, and you just can't help but not fall in love with that character and feel for him.
- [80:59]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, agreed. And listen, Conrad does the Lord's work and gets a Beej on stage every night. And for that we say pride. But, yeah, I don't know. The only thing that worries me about Francis is I sometimes do get Stephen McKinley Henderson deja vu with, like, the energy in the rooms about him. Where, like, at all the awards before The Tonys In 23 2023, Stephen McKinley Henderson was. Whenever he would show up, everyone would just lose their minds and, and cheer for him and then ended up voting for Sean Hayes, someone who was in a show that was currently running. I think the difference is. And also like a very showy part, the difference is that Yellowface is making the rounds to screen itself to remind people it while it is closed, it does feel a little more current because of that. Whereas between Riverside and Crazy was very much sort of like in the past at that point. But you know, this is not a going with my gut thing. This is going with my heart and I'm. My heart says Francis. I don't begrudge Bob Odenkirk for getting nominated, but it should have been Bill Burr. If we're nominating anyone from Glengarry, Glen Ross, but that's.
- [82:05]
Rob W. Schneider
Or Michael McKean, I would say sure, Michael McKean scene was wonderful.
- [82:10]
Matt Koplik
I enjoy Michael McKean in that show a great deal. Bill Burr for me just sort of, I don't know, maybe. I guess he was the biggest surprise for me. Yeah, yeah. I mean but also this is, this is not a bad category either. I love me some Gabriel Ebert. He's obviously not winning. Just that show is not propped up for him to like sweep an acting award, you know. Although I also just want again, big, big shout out to Glenn Davis. Okay, so would you say Francis is both your prediction and your personal pick?
- [82:40]
Rob W. Schneider
Yes, he says hesitantly with an asterisk and you scroll down to the bottom of the page and it says but I'll probably change my mind a few times and reserve the right to before nominations.
- [82:47]
Matt Koplik
That's exactly what you said on your wedding day.
- [82:50]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh no, that's terrible.
- [82:53]
Matt Koplik
Oh, I hope Christopher is listening. Okay, moving on. Best performance by a featured actor in a musical. We have Brooks Ashmanskis for Smash, Jeb Brown for Dead Outlaw, Danny Burstein for Gypsy, Jack Malone for Operation Mincemeat, Taylor Trench for Floyd Co Collins. I just, I, I don't know, it's, it feels so obvious to me who's winning that I actually am now nervous about that. I thought that Jack Malone was a full on lock in this. I still kind of do. But I don't know, every time I get this cocky about something that's when God says hahaha. But that is who I am predicting. Probably who I would vote for as well. I was not the biggest fan of Mincemeat, but Jack Mullen's performance for me was the epitome of what I think that show is ultimately trying to get at and has the best song in the show. It is nine hours long, but it is the best song in the show. But Jack Mullen's performance isn't just the song. They do many wonderful things throughout the show. That song is just the big thing. But. Yeah. What about you?
- [83:53]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, I've been stressing about how to rank everyone below Jack Malone, and now I'm like, I don't care. It doesn't actually matter. There's just him, and I think everyone else is pretty distant behind him.
- [84:07]
Matt Koplik
Well, you worry about ranking because you work at Golder being. You gotta.
- [84:10]
Rob W. Schneider
I know. So I gotta. So it's important to me because that, you know, determines how many points I might win if I get it wrong. And my Sun, Moon, Venus and Mars sign are all Aries. So I'm the most competitive person you've ever met. So points are what I exist on. But I think I've heard a lot of voters actually surprisingly talk about Taylor Trench quite a bit. I think he does have a pocket of support, so I've plopped him in second place for those of you who are in a ranking game. But I think Jack Malone has this in the bag. Even though Operation Mincemeat, I think, wasn't quite as received with such warmness here as it was in the uk, I think this is a pretty easy win for it.
- [84:56]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I agree. I think. I do think if anyone is going to upset, it's Danny who just has such support in this community. And. And while this Gypsy is not as necessarily polarizing as Sunset, it is not like the most overwhelmingly loved production, but everyone, just overwhelming overwhelmingly loves Danny. Also, Gypsy right now is kind of campaigning him and his performance, but not like, here are all the celebrities who love Danny's performance in Gypsy. It's. Here's everybody who just loves Danny Burstein and it's a. It's a way to go. But, you know, it's worked in the past. Okay.
- [85:35]
Rob W. Schneider
It has certainly worked. I mean, it's a viable strategy.
- [85:38]
Matt Koplik
I think it is. Moving on. Okay, Moving on. We have best performance by a featured actress in a Musical. We have Natalie Venezia Belcon for Whenever it's to Social Club. We have Julia Nidol for Dead Outlaw, Gracie Lawrence for Just In Time, Justina Machado for Real Women have Curves, and Joy woods for. For Gypsy. Another one where I'm like, I. I'm going with my gut and I'm saying Natalie for Buena Vista Social Club. I have spoken to plenty of people who have Said that they are voting for Justina, that they were actually disappointed how little real women have curves was nominated and that they loved her performance and that they want to give that show support somewhere, and that felt like a good one for them. I've also spoken to a few voters who went back to see Gypsy and were impressed with the group growth of Joy woods performance. From December to present day, no one has spoken much about Gracie Lawrence except for me. I'm glad another nomination. I'm convinced that I manifested same.
- [86:37]
Rob W. Schneider
It was our powers combined.
- [86:39]
Matt Koplik
Our powers combined. Got her in there. Gracie, you heard it here first. These two gays have all the influence. And then I will say, Julie, I'm so actually surprised at how many people have spoken about Julian Nidle really positively. And that could be a. A win for Dead Outlaw in terms of, like, if we're spreading out, that could be like, similar to Jack Malone for Operation Mincemeat. That could be ends up being like Dead Outlaws weird, like soul win of anything again. I'm going with my gut and I'm saying Natalie, I feel like in a lot of ways it feels like momentum's lost on her because she did so well last season and is ineligible this season. So her just like, her name hasn't been in the press as much of like, Natalie Benicio Balcon wins the drama desk or anything like that. But I mean, on the other end, none of these other women have done well in. In awards leading up to the Tony. So it's not. Again, not that there's overlap, but rather like their names aren't coming up in press items every couple of weeks for winning stuff at the same time. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna still go with Natalie.
- [87:39]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, I'm going with Natalie too. And I think she just hasn't been in the press as much as some people in other categories is because people kind of just decided this one. They're like, we don't need to talk about featured actors anymore because she's kind of just got it. Yeah. So let's like, move on to more like dicey races.
- [87:56]
Matt Koplik
Sure.
- [87:57]
Rob W. Schneider
Where we don't know the outcome. I. I too have heard people talk about Julian Idol and so she's in my second place position right now just because I don't think I have did Outlaw actually winning anything. So this again, like you said, if they don't want a blank Dead Outlaw, this could be actually one of its best shots at a win if they want to put it somewhere. But I think Natalie Venetia Bahan has this one pretty much in the bag.
- [88:25]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I think this is a 50% or more vote for. For the voting body. I think if I were to personally vote, I probably would do Justina, who I have my issues with, real women have curves. But I think that she figures out that character, which I actually think is kind of a tricky character to play. My thing with it is like, they give her a lot of the lines that the mom says in the movie, but they want to redeem her. And that's really hard to do because the mom's irredeemable in the movie. And I think that Justina does a really good job of. Of. Of finding that balance for sure. So she probably would be my personal vote, but I do predict Natalie as well. Okay, moving on. Let's actually. I want to switch things up. We're going to do revival of a play and then revival of musical. Then we're going to go back to the leads. Okay. Revival of a play. We have Eureka Day, Our Town, Romeo and Juliet, and Yellowface. So clearly it's Romeo and Juliet, right?
- [89:27]
Rob W. Schneider
Well, yeah.
- [89:29]
Matt Koplik
I mean, Kid Connor Salt. Yeah. Kit Connor did that pull up and we all said no. I. I will also say I was one of my proudest moments in my prediction for nominations episode. Like the. The week before the nominations came out was me figuring out revival. And I think I had Glengarry in there instead of Our Town, but I was like, I think Romeo and Juliet is getting in here.
- [89:52]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh, yeah. I definitely picked Romeo and Juliet. I think it was very clear that Othello imploded and something was going to take its place. And Romeo and Juliet had, like, the biggest concept, I think, out of any of the play revivals.
- [90:06]
Matt Koplik
So, yeah, that's the thing. I think the reason why a lot of people thought it was going to be like Our Town and Glengarry Glen Ross was that Our Town was warmly received. Not necessarily like a huge hit when it opened. I did not really care for it myself. And Glengarry Glen Ross is like a perfectly decent production of Glengarry Glen Ross. It's not offensive. It's not exceptional. It's sort of like down the middle. And Romeo and Juliet was a big swing that didn't work for a lot. A lot of people. But I. Ultimately, I could. I just. I could tell that they were gonna at least reward the big swing over the sort of like down the road Glengarry and then anyway. But, yeah, I think it gets down between Eureka Day and Yellowface. I'm going to say Yellowface. I think David Henry Huang is a notable figure that people would like to reward Again. I think this production was very warmly received at the time. I think the PBS broadcast helps it, and if it wins, that also helps Francis Chu win. So that's my. That's my pick and also my vote.
- [91:05]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, I think that this one's going to be pretty close. I'm too. I. I'm also going with Yellowface. I think both Yellowface and Eureka Day feel very timely for two very different reasons. Yellowface obviously has the PBS broadcast that puts it back in people's minds, but the scene where Francis Juice character is being interrogated as a Chinese spy and basically. And Daniel Day Kim's character is basically told like the American dream is only for white people. I think with our current administration and the crackdown on immigrants just like, reads in an even more horrifying way now than when I first saw it. So I think that's like a big shift that has gone in its. In its favor is that it feels like this play, no matter when it has been produced, is speaking to the moment. Sadly, Eureka Day also would kind of give them a way to give a middle finger to Trump because it was something that, you know, it's Kennedy center production was canceled. So people have feelings about that. And, you know, the discussion about vaccine mandates is obviously something that's, you know, still. Still raging. So. But I just feel like Yellowface feels a bit more. A bit more timely, and I think they're campaigning a bit more for it and doing a great job at getting people to remember it.
- [92:41]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it does sort of feel like Yellowface is campaigning harder than Eureka Day. I feel like Eureka Day has been very quiet during the month of May. Maybe Manhattan Theater Club is pissed that old friends blanked. And so they're like, screw you guys. You're not going to get our campaigning this year. But it's a shame because I did really like Eureka Day a lot, and I wish that. I mean, I wish it had done better. I mean, Amber Gray, I thought was so wonderful in that show. And I'll never forget the Zoom meeting. That's just one of those. One of the great moments of the season, for sure.
- [93:10]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, for sure.
- [93:12]
Matt Koplik
Okay. And then to another tricky category, we have revival of a musical. Floyd Collins, Gypsy Pirates, the Penzance musical, and Sunset Boulevard. I'll go easy first and say what I would personally vote for, which is the chaos of Floyd Collins, which is not a perfect production of a not perfect musical. But the highs of Floyd Collins for me were so high that I am just willing to say, yes, I am going to predict Sunset Boulevard. I don't feel confident in that. Is all I can say is that the conversations of the last of the whole season in particular, but specifically the last two weeks, it's been the same thing over and over again of like, either, like, some people loved it, some people hated it. I haven't spoken to enough people who have loved Gypsy that I see it getting support. It's also. This is one of those things where I talked about my myths and trends and whatnot. There have only been two best revival of a musical winners that didn't also have a director nomination, and that was Annie, get your Gun and LA Cage and in 2005. And that La Cage was up against two other nominees that also didn't have directing nominations. So it just. I feel like that in some ways puts an edge on Sunset to win. Yeah, but that's. I don't know. I don't say that with my full body. I don't say, to quote Ms. Ariana Grande, I don't say that with my chest. Sam, talk to me.
- [94:45]
Rob W. Schneider
I, too, am predicting Sunset Boulevard, and I think you're spot on. The fact that Jamie is the only director of these nominated gives it a tremendous edge because I think when we think of revivals, it's often about, like, okay, well, what are you saying? What new thing are you saying with this material? What is the new approach? Why are we doing this piece right now? And I think he's the one out of all of them that has obviously, like, pulled apart this show the most and presented it in a way that, like, no one ever thought of before.
- [95:17]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [95:18]
Rob W. Schneider
But I will say I feel like the. When Sunset opened, there was just like this mania around it, and that has definitely calmed down. And I do think, like, I think people are a little bit more fond of Gypsy in these last couple weeks. I'm not sure that it's enough to ultimately win. I don't know if it's just because my awards brain is running, and I just can't go against that stat of that it doesn't have a director nomination. I think George C. Wolfe missing, really heard it. But I. I think Gypsy might actually be my personal pick if I was voting on this category, but I. I'm predicting Sunset Boulevard.
- [96:01]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, listen, I. I do think it's. It is still down to Gypsy and Sunset as it always has been. And you're right, like, the. The mania around Sunset now is not what it was in October and November, but Also, I would argue, other than maybe, like, Merrily, I can't think of a revival that in the last, like, 15 years that opened early in the season and maintained that fervor up until Tony time. Musicals, new musicals can do that, but with revivals, it's usually like, the first three months are, like, the hyperiest moments of their run, and then, like, they kind of start to simmer down. I don't know. Can you think of any revival other than Merrily that, like, opened in, say, like, October and kept that fervor?
- [96:43]
Rob W. Schneider
No, probably not for that long. In terms of, like, buzz, I don't think so. Yeah.
- [96:48]
Matt Koplik
A lot of the revival winners, again, that are not Merrily, tended to open towards, like, March and April and then had that insanity around them, which is why I really wanted Floyd Collins to be. As much as I really did enjoy it, I wanted it to be even more undeniable than it is. I was like. Because that would really just fuck things up to have, like, the April revival come in be so incredible. I'd be like, sorry, Gypsy and Sunset. Sorry, flops, but twas not meant to be.
- [97:13]
Rob W. Schneider
No.
- [97:14]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I'm just gonna go with my gut again and say Sunset. And I do. I agree. I think that the warmness for Gypsy is for Gypsy and not for this Gypsy. And. And. And for Audra in particular. The conversation constantly is sort of like, well, you know, you like Audra in this or you don't. But it's never been like, I, I like this Gypsy, but I don't like Audra. It's either been, I like the Gypsy and I like Audra, I don't like the Gypsy and I do like Audra, or I don't like the Gypsy and I don't like Audra. It's never been like, Gypsy, don't like Audra. And I've actually heard a few people be like, I liked this Sunset didn't like Nicole. So, like, of all the wild sentences to say, okay, that's these categories. We are going to do the leads and then the final two right after this break. Really?
- [98:01]
Sam Ekman
I beg to differ with you.
- [98:02]
Matt Koplik
How do you mean? You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire.
- [98:18]
Sam Ekman
When you're on the go and it's time to refresh your energy, Grab an ice cold Celsius, where zero sugar, seven essential vitamins, and proven ingredients. Ingredients meet pure refreshment, unlike traditional energy drinks. Each sip of Celsius is a perfect balance of flavor and function. So whether you're hitting the gym, the office, or your next adventure, grab a Celsius at your local retailer or visit Celsius.com to learn more.
- [98:46]
Matt Koplik
Hey there, travelers. Kaley Cuoco here. Sorry to interrupt your music great artist BT Dubs, but wouldn't you rather be there to hear it live? With Priceline, you can get out of your dreams and into your dream come concert. They've got millions of travel deals to get you to that festival, gig, rave, sound bath or sonic experience you've been dreaming of. Download the Priceline app today and you can save up to 60% off hotels and up to 50% off flights. So don't just dream about that trip. Book it with Priceline.
- [99:12]
Sam Ekman
Got a happy price?
- [99:13]
Rob W. Schneider
Priceline McCrispy strips are now at McDonald's.
- [99:18]
Matt Koplik
I hope you're ready for the most dippable chicken in McDonald's history. Dip it in all the sauces. Dip it in that hot sauce in your bag.
- [99:25]
Sam Ekman
Dip it in your McFlurry.
- [99:26]
Rob W. Schneider
Your dip is your business.
- [99:28]
Matt Koplik
McCrispy strips at McDonald's. And we're back. Okay, Sam, you pick leading actor or.
- [99:36]
Rob W. Schneider
Actress in which one girl?
- [99:40]
Matt Koplik
Well, you say the. You say the gender and then I'll say the group.
- [99:46]
Rob W. Schneider
Let's do lead actress.
- [99:48]
Matt Koplik
Okay. Play or musical?
- [99:51]
Rob W. Schneider
Play.
- [99:51]
Matt Koplik
Okay. Because it's easy. We've got Laura Donnelly for the hills of California. Mia Farrow for the roommate, latonya Richardson Jackson for purpose. Sadie Singh for John Proctor. Is the villain. Sarah Snook for the picture of Dorian Gray, it's Sarah Snook. We all know it's Sarah Snook. I am totally okay with that win. Would I personally vote for Laura Donnelly? Yes. It's just that's the kind of performance that I gravitate towards a bit more. But you're not going to hear me bemoan Sarah Snook winning. And that's me in a nutshell.
- [100:23]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, I think this is a pretty easy call for Sarah Snook. She's kind of dominated. That said, in terms of talking about personal picks, Laura Donnelly not only gave my favorite performance in this category, I think she gave the best performance of anyone on any stage this entire season. I was so knocked out by her. I wish she could win. Not to begrudge Sarah Snook is obviously amazing in picture Joyan Gray, but I just was totally bowled over by what Lara did in that show.
- [100:54]
Matt Koplik
And I do think if that show were running right now, like, if that had opened April 1 and running. I can't rightfully say that she would fully beat Sarah, but I think she would have a much better chance. I think she would have a real fighting chance if she were doing that show right now on Broadway because it was an astounding performance. And I mean, a lovely, lovely play. Yeah. Very big on it, but, yeah, it's.
- [101:12]
Rob W. Schneider
They tied at the drama desks, so there you go.
- [101:15]
Matt Koplik
Well, that's because the drama desks refuse to acknowledge off Broadway.
- [101:18]
Rob W. Schneider
I know, but it's at least something.
- [101:20]
Matt Koplik
No, it's something we. We are not mad about it. Okay, so in that case, well, now we'll do leading actor in a musical. We're gonna switch it up on you here. Any actor, musical. We have Darren Craze for maybe happy ending, Andrew Duran for dead Outlaw, Tom Francis for Sunset Boulevard, Jonathan Groff for Just in time, James Monroe Iglehart for A wonderful world, and Jeremy Jordan for Floyd Collins. I can see a narrative for four of these six men. Yeah, I see a narrative for Darren Criss, who's well liked, who is the lead of the front runner for best musical. He is out there. He's campaigning, but not just for himself, but for the show itself. Not to go cynical on this, but, like, this is ultimately what got Jamie Lee Curtis her Oscar for everything everywhere all at once. She wasn't campaigning for her performance. She was campaigning for the movie. And ultimately that really endeared her to people. I would say Tom Francis is a contender. He goes toe to toe with Nicole and does the incredibly impressive social media broken by that. I mean, it breaks social media. The title song at the top of Act 2, Jonathan Groff, incredibly well loved. This is the Jonathan groff showcase at 54 below with fuck you money. And I would argue is a more objectively in your face performance than merrily. Like, this is a performance that I think people are more happy to reward him for. And then Jeremy Jordan, who also is well liked in the community. This is his second Tony nomination after over a decade in what is a very difficult role in a revival that I think also is going to split people. But even if they. Those who admire it but are unsure of where they would vote for it, I think this is an easy category for them to vote it for. My. My prediction is Darren. That is ultimately what I am predicting my vote would be. Jeremy. And Gray Henson is nowhere to be found in this category and I find that offensive. But it's okay. Gray knows how I feel and he sleeps well at night, knowing I feel that way. And I say it on Mike any chance I get. So that's me. Sam.
- [103:26]
Rob W. Schneider
Well, I too am predicting Darren, but quite cautiously. My hesitation with it is that there are a lot of great choices here and it is not. Darren is amazing in this show, but it is not the usual type of performance that manages to win. There's a lot of nuance to his role. It's not like a grand, big showy role just because he's playing a robot. But he does tug at your heart, I would argue more than anyone else here. And that is what I think will hopefully, I think if my prediction's right, push him over the edge. But it's really tough because like Jonathan Groff is giving what would normally be the performance that would win.
- [104:17]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [104:18]
Rob W. Schneider
Playing a real person doing his own take on it. He's working his ass off. You know, it is like he's just. That is he is the show. But I don't know if they're gonna give him. It comes down to like he just won again. Is that. Do they love Justin time enough to make not only have him win again, but to make Jonathan Grof the only person who has ever won back to back Tonys in lead actor in a musical.
- [104:45]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, well, and so we talked about this in last week's episode with the myths and trends. Like, the reason why that would happen is that we actually haven't had back to back nominations in this category very often. And when it has happened, there hasn't really been anyone who's given a fighting chance to break that. Like, oh, they just, well, master curse. And if ever there was somebody who could really do that, it would be Grof this year. Like let me also be very clear. I don't, I ultimately don't think that Jeremy is as strong a contender as Darren or Groff are. I think if he were to win it would similar to featured actress in a play. Like, and with this one we've got six nominees. So like someone could truly win here with like 19% of the vote or like, or 20% of the vote. And that is kind of insane to me. So like Jeremy just needs the right 20% to vote for him. But I do think it ultimately comes down to Darren and Jonathan and I think Darren's performance. Yes. It doesn't have that like show stopping moment. The closest winner in this category I can think of who kind of comes similar to it is Michael Service for Fun Home who granted has this big like mental breakdown at the end of the show, but for an hour and 45 a fun home. Michael Service is just giving a very quiet, nuanced performance. And that is also like the glue of that production in a lot of ways that I think that Darren is kind of the glue of maybe happy ending not to cast aside Helen's work. Helen's work is also wonderful, and Darren would not be as successful as he is without her. But, yeah, I don't like. I think this is just one of those things where it is impressive on the physical front of what he does with his body and his demeanor. It is a delightful performance. He's a delightful human being, and he's in a delightful show, which is why I'm picking him. But I agree with you. I'm not saying that being like, guys, 10,000 bucks on Chris. Like, I'm. I am. I am willing to pet you three peanuts and a penny.
- [106:47]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, I think it's really close. And I think even Tom Francis has a shot here too. I think there's a lot of love for all three of those guys.
- [106:57]
Matt Koplik
People really love Tom Francis's soda reviews on. On TikTok, apparently.
- [107:02]
Rob W. Schneider
His soda reviews?
- [107:04]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. He has an account on TikTok where he reviews sodas.
- [107:09]
Rob W. Schneider
Wow. I have so many questions and a deep dive to do later.
- [107:13]
Matt Koplik
I say stars. They're just like us. Who. Who would you personally vote for if you. If you had a ballot?
- [107:25]
Rob W. Schneider
I haven't thought about that. I guess I think I would be torn between Darren and Jonathan, which isn't helpful to say, but I think I would choose Darren just because he does such interesting physical work with that character that I found really impressive for him to maintain the emotional through line through this kind of very mask based physical work that he's doing. So for that, I would give it to Darren.
- [108:02]
Matt Koplik
I'm gonna say similar to when. When Anora won film editing. That's when I said, oh, Mikey Madison's winning actress just in time loses orchestrations. I'm gonna say that Grof does not get actor. Is that. That's a weird connection for me to make, but it's the best thing I can come up with in terms of the situation where I'm like, my gut is telling me if Just in time, if I'm wrong about Justin Time's orchestrations win, then I think that that that officially puts Darren as the winner for me.
- [108:30]
Rob W. Schneider
I don't know if that's true in this specific, specific case. Normally I would say yes.
- [108:36]
Matt Koplik
Not the exact same thing, Sam, because.
- [108:38]
Rob W. Schneider
Orchestrations is decided on by a smaller pool.
- [108:41]
Matt Koplik
I'm simply saying I'm It's. That's me. The. Not the pressure. What's it, what's it called when you have like visions when you're like you're Raven Simone. Yeah. Like premonitions. Yes. Like I'm. I'm baby Raven Simone. Feeling the ground vibrations and going, ah, yes, now I have my. My premonition. But also like I'm talking out of my. Very beautiful but here. So everyone take it with a grain of salt. Okay, moving on. Leading actor in a play. We have George Clooney for Good Night and good Luck. Cola Scola for oh, Mary. John Mikael Hill for Purpose. Daniel Dae Kim for Yellowface. Harry Lennox for purpose. And Louis McCartney for Stranger Things. I am picking. I'm predicting Cole. Cole also would be my vote. If you said, Matthew, you cannot vote for Cole Escola. You have to vote for somebody else. I would say Louis McCartney for Stranger Things. What that British twink does in that show is insane. But that's. Yeah, that's what I would do.
- [109:38]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah. I think maybe it's the battle of the Twinks then, but Cola Scola is definitely the. The victorious twink here. And I think thankfully this is one we can call by a mile because I can't imagine, yeah. Anyone beating Cole at this point. They've just become such a force and success story this whole season. I do have Louis ranked second. I think what he does physically is really impressive. I think Daniel Dae Kim will get like a small smattering of votes because his win would be historic. There's never been an Asian American winner in this category, but I think Cole is going to win by quite a landslide.
- [110:21]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I agree. I mean, we also have never had a non binary performer win in this category, so that would also be historic. Yeah. So on that note, moving on to. You know what, we're not even going to do leading actress of a musical just yet. We. What we're going to do is we're going to do best play English. The hills of California. John Proctor is the villain. Oh, Mary Purpose. Here's the thing, Sam. I still in my heart of hearts think that O Mary is winning this. The question that has, as I said earlier, that had been like popping up in all of these events has been, well, what's its importance? What's its significance? And people then going on and on about purpose is importance and, and the importance of English and. And of course, like so many plays and so many great plays have something to say, but also it just comes down to like, did you enjoy your time at the theater Madam first lady. And I think that Omari hits the nail on the head exactly what it's trying to do. It is the story of the season. It's the success of the season. Its very existence is political, especially at a time where, you know, drag and queer art forms are trying to be. People are trying to silence them. Like, this is so unapologetically queer, so unapologetically drag. And for it to be such a commercial as well as artistic and critical hit is astounding. This is actually probably my favorite best play lineup in years. Purpose is maybe my least favorite of the five now. Not maybe. It is my least favorite of the five. And I don't dislike Purpose. I just think that the other four hit so hard that, like, what can you do? If I would personally probably vote for Hills of California just because that show is my number one of the year, and I would be. I'd be lying to everyone if I. If I didn't vote for it. I would have to. It was my number one of the year. But, oh, Mary is a wonderful winner otherwise, and it's currently still my vote. Again, just going with my gut here, Sam.
- [112:22]
Rob W. Schneider
Matt, let me tell you some things about something I hate, which is, as someone who covers awards for a living, this whole bullshit about, like, oh, but is it important? Does it really say something? It's like, mary, did you, like, go and have fun? It's the same. Like, when the critics were. There were so many reviews of Once Upon a Mattress that were like, well, it really didn't have anything to say. I'm like, it's Once Upon a fucking Mattress. It's Princess and the Pea. It's a comedy. Are you able to have fun? That is. That is a worthwhile endeavor in the theater to just, like, go and have a good time. And as you said, like, it is, like, powerful that there is an unabashed quote queer as play that is outperforming musicals in the Broadway box office. And your straight aunt and uncle from Ohio are going to see Cola Scola as some demented exorcist crazy in this play. It is amazing. And, like, right now, like, you know, with all this crap from the Trump administration about attacking queer people and trans people and anyone who's different, like, yeah, it is important. It doesn't hit you over the head with a message about, you know, it's not preaching at you, but it is important, this place here. So just, like, shut up.
- [113:48]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I hate the fact that we need to be preached to, that we needed said in A way, like in a children's book, just dumbs us down.
- [113:56]
Rob W. Schneider
The.
- [113:56]
Matt Koplik
The ultimate. The ultimate revenge that Omari has had on this administration is how much money it has made of, like, proving that this is a lucrative, viable way to enjoy your. Enjoy your life. And. And anyone else who says differently. So that is. But I also. This is the thing that, like, bugs me about the Broadway community, and especially with the Tonys, because musicals don't have to be like, quote, unquote, important to win, but plays apparently do. And it pisses me off because there have been so many plays that have been supposedly important that I found messy and not as good as other ones, but the ones that don't win while they're tighter and more focused maybe are lighter in. In their loafers. And. And voters want something with a message. And I'm just like, but why don't you want something you can enjoy or. Or even something you can debate? Like. There wasn't a lot for me to debate about purpose. There was a lot I could debate about with John Proctor, a lot I could debate about with Hills of California. English. I was just in heaven from start to finish. And I would, like, have these conversations with people who've been voting for years, and they'd be like, huh, Never thought of it that way. I'm like, you've never thought of it that way?
- [115:10]
Rob W. Schneider
It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. I think. Anyway, I think I was supposed to tell you what I was predicting.
- [115:17]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [115:18]
Rob W. Schneider
But I guess those are real things that voters think about. And so we have to, like, if you want to predict, you have to, like, detach yourself from logic sometimes and think about what is going on in these people's minds. I still think, even with all of that, even with the naysayers who are like, oh, Mary, isn't quote, unquote, important enough? Barf. I think it's so popular that it has become this, like, undeniable force. It's one of the biggest success stories of the year. Cole has been everywhere talking about this. The whole team has been everywhere, and it's. It's just been like, this unlikely underdog. We all thought it would kind of just finish its limited run. And would they? You know, I knew the producers were looking at trying to make it a longer thing, but it's like, is it really going to be able to do this? Is it really going to be able to survive casting changes? And it has, like, it's proved every naysayer wrong the entire time. It's made buckets of money So I do think it has. I do think it's winning best play.
- [116:26]
Matt Koplik
It even was a finalist for the Pulitzer. People like, well, purpose. I'm like, oh, Mary, this 75 minute faggot fest was a runner up, was a top three finalist for the Pulitzer. I'm sorry, but that's incredible. That's incredible. And should absolutely be awarded. Yeah, I agree with you. Um, I also think, not for nothing, but this is where, like we talk about quote, unquote, split voting. This is where I actually think splits are real, which is you would have voters who think about like, what's the more important one? What's the one that's like, more for our times. And they would think about purpose. They would think about even John Proctor. And I think that that sort of is spread out among that pool of voters and ultimately doesn't tilt either one into the majority. Which allows Omari, which probably does have the majority, if not necessarily like 85% of the vote, but maybe like 60% of the vote, like a clear path to success. Could I be wrong? Sure. These things do happen. But similar to Natalie, like, oh, Mary won everything last year. And that's why it hasn't been like in the press during this last month with awards.
- [117:33]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah. In order to take down a strong front runner, you need to have like one singular challenger that everyone's uniting behind. And that's just not happening because all of these are fabulous.
- [117:44]
Matt Koplik
Which is ultimately what happened with Outsiders versus Hell's Kitchen. Like Hell's Kitchen came into Tony Month, the front runner. And then like in the last two weeks, this surge for Outsiders became like, this is our. This is the one. We have to rival it. I agree with you. Best musical. We've got Buena Vista Social Club, Dead Outlaw, Death becomes. Or maybe happy Ending. Operation Mincemeat. I am predicting maybe happy ending. It is also my vote. If there was anything that's going to upset it absurd. It upset it. It would be Death becomes her. But I, I just don't. I don't buy that actually happening. I think Death becomes Her can win a couple of lower rung awards, but the actual final ticket I think will go to maybe happy ending.
- [118:24]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, I think maybe happy ending has this pretty much in the bag now, which is. Feels weird to say based on how the season started. It would also be my personal vote. I instantly fell in love with the show. I love any theater that makes you think, you know, I was just like spent the whole time reflecting on my own life and, you know, loves and losses and I think it's really powerful in its simplicity, actually. I thought that the race like Dead Outlaw would be stronger, but I just don't think it has become this massive threat to it the way I thought it would. It seems like Death Becomes her really has risen up at the end of the season as the big splashy comedy, a more classic type musical as a rival option to maybe happy ending, but I just don't. It has no guaranteed. Death Becomes her has no guaranteed wins in a major category. I'm going out on a limb maybe for it in book, but other than that, it's like, I don't think it's winning an acting award. I like it could win costumes, but again, as we discussed, it could very well not like. It just doesn't have another major spot to win, which it would need to in order to take this award. So maybe happy ending it is.
- [119:50]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, agreed, agreed. And maybe happy ending also just has that narrative of like it. It came out kind of struggling. They weren't even sure if they were going to make it to opening night. They did. They got those reviews. The community fully rallied behind it. They're like, no, no. This is a genuine, special thing to see. They turned their fortunes around pretty quickly. The producers were, you know, very bold and supporting it and keeping it alive. And I feel like people, when. When these narratives happen, people like to think, oh, well, they had a few months where it was really rocky and like, they really only had like a month and a half where it was rocky. Like, previews were rocky. And then like two or three weeks after opening, it was a little rocky. But by the time they got to like early December, they were getting to like, their. In the clear past their running cost. Like, it's. It's a true success story. And I think that there's no narrative against it. Is the other thing which leads us to leading actress in a musical, the easiest category to predict and I'm sorry.
- [120:44]
Rob W. Schneider
She wants a fight.
- [120:46]
Matt Koplik
Oh, she want to fight. Megan healthy for death, but becomes her. Audra McDonald for Gypsy Jasmine. Amy Rogers for Boop. Nicole Schrosinger for Sunset Boulevard. Jennifer Simard for Death becomes her. Let's go fight. Let's go fisticuffs. But also easy. And let us each say who we personally would vote for before we then say who we think is gonna win.
- [121:07]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh, I'm. I would personally vote for Audra McDonald in Gypsy.
- [121:14]
Matt Koplik
Yes. You were at the same performance that Juan Ramirez was at and Jesse Green and I wish I was in the theater that day. I really do.
- [121:21]
Rob W. Schneider
I I know people, some people have issues with her performance. I full like, I have no qualms. I fully love it. I also like, I saw it during press week. I had seen a previous performance in early previews because I had a group of a gaggle of gays who wanted to go, so we all got tickets together. And I would say, like, what's even more impressive too is seeing how she like grew into it. Because that early preview, it was like, oh, I don't know if I've ever seen Audra in process like this in terms of like figuring out where she's placing stuff in her voice. And then by the time we got to that press performance, it, it was one of the most thrilling things I've seen on stage this season. I couldn't get enough of it.
- [122:09]
Matt Koplik
What Audra, what Audra's intention with her rose is ultimately what I think Laura Donnelly does in Hills of California. And so like I just, I think about that from time to time. My personal vote shocker here would be Jennifer Smart for Death Becomes her a also fabulous, a bonkers comedic performance that just sets her on a path to glory. She's not winning, though. I, here's my thing. I had it in my gut that Audra was winning most of May and most of April. The last two weeks, as things happened, there was the conversation I had at with 10 different groups of people at three separate parties were, oh, well, you know, because of that thing, Audra's probably going to win now. And I was like, oh, so I'm get you're voting for her then. And each person was like, well, no, I'm not, but like others will. And the last time people were saying that was when Anthony Hopkins beat Chadwick Boseman at the Oscars and people like, well, Chadwick Boseman is absolutely going to win. So like I'm going to vote for Anthony Hopkins now. Does that mean that Audrey is going to lose? No, but this is where I'm going with my gut. And I'm actually going to say hold your breath. Jasmine Amy Rogers.
- [123:28]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh, she's choosing the, the atomic option.
- [123:31]
Matt Koplik
She, I, I, I, I'm hitting, I'm hitting the button. I, that is who I am predicting and it is purely based off of the last 72 hours since, since Friday night I felt a change in the ER and I just again, I'm getting Aida Deja vu of like, you're not nominated for the big stuff, but what you are nominated for, you, you, you almost sweep including actress and like of a musical that has Its pluses has its minuses. But a leading lady who is just such a force and such a like. Okay, we have a new star, everybody. We've got someone special here as watch. Watch me be wrong. Watch Audra. And she's going to look into that camera. She's going to say, Sam Ekman, thank you for believing in me. Matt Koplik, eat glass.
- [124:23]
Rob W. Schneider
If she said that I would die. We should send that to her agent to have to put it in her speech.
- [124:29]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely.
- [124:30]
Rob W. Schneider
And also it's number. It would be win number seven. She can do whatever she wants.
- [124:34]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. If she, if she does win, I just hope that she uses that leverage to get Michael John Lachiusa back on Broadway.
- [124:41]
Rob W. Schneider
I think you have really good instincts on Jasmine though. We been thinking this whole time that it's a two horse race between Audra and Nicole Scherzinger. But Jasmine is incredibly likable. They've got her out everywhere doing everything. You know, not everything in BOOP worked for me but I left being like, I cannot wait to see this woman take over Broadway. I want her cast in everything. And I think that aspect of discovery is really powerful in awards voting when people feel like they've discovered something cool that no one else knows about yet and they have to go out and tell their friends about it. And we just saw this at the drama desk with Audra and Jasmine were the two recipients of their lead performance award. Obviously drama desks are not like it's not a precursor like things are for Oscars. There's not a whole lot of overlap but I think it's worth noting that it like she has now shown that she has strength with a wider awards body, like a wider voting group than just a few people.
- [125:50]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I mean I do still kind of think that her in BOOP is a bit more of a Jesse Mueller and on a clear day situation of like star is born than Sutton Foster and Millie. Just in terms of like I don't think that this with unless she wins the Tony, in which case I eat my words along with glass Audra. But I think that this is more like her blue chip for the next thing that will then officially cement her again unless the Tony win happens. But she is just so. She's such a force in that show and really kind of carries the whole thing on her. Petite. No. Gen Z. She's Gen Z, right? Gen Z Shoulders.
- [126:31]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah.
- [126:32]
Matt Koplik
I think she's Gen Z. She's. She's a Gen Z or I can get behind. That's like my ultimate championing of Rogers as a Gen Z or that I'm okay with. No, she's just so fantastic in that show and she's so delightful in it. And it's not just like, oh, she's got a big voice. Oh, she's got talent. Like, she's a smart actress. She's a special actress. And as you said, like the element of surprise and the discovery of her I think is enough to really get people on board. Yeah, I think for a long time people thought it was between Audra and Nicole. I actually would argue it's now between Audra and Jasmine. Nicole could absolutely still pull through in some way. She is still very well liked her. Whether people are hot and cold on Sunset, there is a lot of warmth for her performance. It's just. Yeah, I think it, this comes down to just like, what are the dozen people who are going to make this break, this race and where do they go? Right.
- [127:29]
Rob W. Schneider
Yeah, I'm still, I'm still predicting Audra to win just because I feel like it's a pairing of, you know, what many people consider our greatest stage actress with also what many people consider the greatest role for an actress on stage. And she just gets a mountain of those different moments that you can walk away with that are seared on your brain. And I also think she does it differently than any other Mama Rose I've seen. And not just talking about like her voice type is different from a beltress like Patty or Ethel Merman. She just takes so much time and care with the book work too. Like all the scenes leading into Everything's Coming Up Roses is mind blowingly good. She just, it's the opposite take of what Patty does, who kind of like uses the scene as her Runway to like launch into this big moment where as Audra just takes it in, internalizes every beat. And you see her remember all of these people who left her through her life and each one of those people has a different, you know, provokes a different intonation on her voice and you can see the memory happening. And so by the time you get to the song, it's just a woman completely unraveled. She justifies her way to that moment. And so I, I think that will do it for people. I think there will be some folks who don't vote for her because it would be her seventh Tony and I think that's actually her biggest hang up.
- [129:15]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [129:15]
Rob W. Schneider
The biggest stumbling block on the way to winning is that people are like, well, we've already given you a lot.
- [129:22]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [129:22]
Rob W. Schneider
And you don't need More. A win would mean much more for Jasmine or Nicole.
- [129:27]
Matt Koplik
It's like seven. I think a lot of people go seven. Yeah. One last thing and then we'll close up shop. My only other, like, thing kind of going against Jasmine. And this is a QAnon theory. This is not real. This is not based on any form of genuine reality other than the fact that like. Like, this is like me as Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Mind, where I see the numbers in the. In the magazines and I think it's a message. When it comes to Angenu's winning best Leading Actress at the Tonys, it usually goes in a specific pattern of 1 and 2 and 1 and 2 and 1 and 2and 1. In terms of, like, back to back or not.
- [130:00]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh, my God, I hate you.
- [130:03]
Matt Koplik
It's true. Because it's Heather Headley alone, and then it's sun and Marissa, Jarrett Winoker back to back, and then I hate myself.
- [130:14]
Rob W. Schneider
Only you have put this together.
- [130:15]
Matt Koplik
I know. Well, because. Well, I. Yeah, well, I just want to guess my own self because then it's Patina and Jesse back to back. I take that back. But then it's Cynthia for one, and then it's Adrian and Wakina for two, and then Malaya for one. So I'm like, I don't know. I think this is. It's possible the Malaya is the one, and then we get two back to back ingenues, like down the line.
- [130:40]
Rob W. Schneider
But all I heard during that was the clue scene. One plus two plus two plus one.
- [130:45]
Matt Koplik
That's. That's what that was. That was what I was trying to reference. And I'm not even joking. I ain't joking, bitch. One plus two plus two plus one. There's. There's no reason for it. That's just me being like, there's a pattern. There's a pattern, and it's this and it's the password for your Bitcoin. 1 and 2 and 2 and 1 and 1 and 2 and 2. Um. But, yeah, that's it. Sam, this has been delightful. Thank you so much for coming on and dealing with all my crazy both before the recording and during the recording.
- [131:10]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh, well, thank you for having me on and letting me just ramble. You.
- [131:15]
Matt Koplik
You. You ramble better than anyone else. I know you ramble better than me. And this is my goddamn podcast. Where can people find you if you want them to find you?
- [131:24]
Rob W. Schneider
Well, you can read my coverage@goldderby.com and make your own Tony predictions if you so desire. And you can find me on Instagram at Sam Ekman.
- [131:34]
Matt Koplik
Yes, it. He is the manliest of X if ever there was one. If you want to follow me, I'm on Instagram only at Matt Koplik Usual spelling. If you like the podcast, you give us a nice five star rating or review. I will read those most two recent reviews at the next episode with Daddy Rob W. Schneider. You can join the Discord channel if you like. The link will be in the description below. Box. Sam, we close out every episode with a Broadway diva that I will put in post. Who would you like to close this out with? 2D.
- [132:04]
Rob W. Schneider
Oh my goodness. I would love to close us out with a diva. You mentioned Ms. Jennifer Simard.
- [132:12]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yay. Okay. Phenomenal. I love it so much. Okay, we're gonna close out with Jen then. Thank you so much for listening everybody. We will see you in a week for for the Tony reaction episode and that will be a fun, fun, fun, fun time. Thank you so much, Sam. Take it away, Jen. I really wish you both the very best.
- [132:35]
Rob W. Schneider
It was never meant to be between me and you.
- [132:41]
Matt Koplik
I must be boring, senseless.
- [132:46]
Sam Ekman
I'm just so glad that you both.
- [132:52]
Matt Koplik
It's truly lovely to see the kind of man you become. Whoopsie. Did I just say come twice?
- [133:02]
D
Hey, everybody, this is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. I have just realized that I don't like the sound of my own voice, which is hilarious because I've started a podcast. Here's the deal. When we are younger, let's say 8 to 10 years old, we find filters through which we relate and understand the world. They're usually artistic in nature. Sometimes we find books, music. A lot of people find movies. For me, I found musical theater. Musical theater was my little Instagram filter through which I began to relate to the world. And that meant that the reason I knew about FDR and the New Deal in school was because of Annie. And the reason I could name all 12 tribes of Israel at church was because of Joseph and the amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. And if I'm being totally honest, a few years later, as I got older, the way that I was able to process the death of my close friend family members was by watching Ragtime. That's why I wanted to create a podcast, was to have conversations about musical theater that felt more profound than the razzmatazz that we usually use to get people to buy tickets. Because, let's be honest, I don't care if you think that musical theater's cool. Cool is overrated. I live in Los Angeles, so I know that cool is very overrated. But I do know that musical theater is important, and those are the conversations that I want to be having on this podcast. Here's how it's going to work. Every week we're going to pick a show, and for that show, I'm going to have a guest and we're going to have a conversation about that show, about that musical. So what are the musicals we're going to cover? These musicals can be hits. Maybe they're not. There's no shortage of musicals, let's say, okay, the first musical to win the Tony award for best musical was in 1949, Kiss Me Kate. Right. So now we're in 2019. So if we just did the best musical winners, and that's not even including the musicals that didn't win best musical, like Beauty and the Beast or West side Story or Wicked or what else? Funny Girl, Gypsy. I think what will be really fun is that every guest is going to bring something different and everybody has different tastes in terms of what they like the shows to be. Some of these shows will be some of my favorite shows. Some of them will be favorites of the guests. Some of them might be your favorites, and that might mean that we're covering a musical that I don't really care for. I'm looking at you, Mamma Mia. But it's one of the longest running shows in Broadway history, so who am I to say that people aren't connecting to it? So we'll look at it and we'll at least come up with a hypothesis as to why people connect to the show and why it's bringing them joy. So I want to hear from you. If you have an idea for a show that you would want us to cover, just email us@musicalpodcastmail.com or you can always contact us on Twitter. Sign Musical Podcasts. I'm excited to hear your thoughts. Tell me what show you want us to cover and then you have to give me a good reason. It can't just be. Well, maybe it can just be. I did the show in my community theater and I want to hear what you guys have to say about it. If that's it, just be honest. I want to hear your reasonings. Why? Be sure to, like, comment. Subscribe to the podcast whenever you can and share it with your friends. Because at the end of the day, you're another day older. No, at the end of the day, I want this to be a community where people can come and celebrate this art form in a way that maybe doesn't get explored as much. So please call me Jeff and bring along your show albums, because we're about to get turned up. No, that's terrible. So please call me, Jeff and get ready, because a musical theater podcast is is starting now.
- [137:39]
Matt Koplik
All right, here we go. New Phineas and Ferb is here. We're back, baby, for 104 more. I know what we're gonna do today. A summer vacation. I am ready for summer shenanigans. Let's do it. Oh, yeah. We're gonna bust Fidel's birth once and for all. Are we gonna do this again? New inventions, shenanigans, innators, adventures and songs. Brand new summer vacation. New Phidius and Ferb. Starts June 5th on Disney Channel. And next day on Disney plus on disneyplus.disney.com.