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- [00:13]
A
Why not? Think of the prestige. Think of the respect.
- [00:16]
B
No, no, no.
- [00:18]
A
Think of the Tony.
- [00:22]
B
Tony.
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A
Tony. Tony.
- [00:23]
B
Tony.
- [00:23]
A
Tony.
- [00:25]
B
Hello, all you theater lovers, both out and proud and on the DL, and welcome back to Broadway Breaks down a pod discussing the history legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And speaking of theater lovers, you know them, you love them. They are regs and friends of the pod. They are our dear Will and Rachel Anderson. Rachel or Will Anderson. I don't know how you guys do your billing on the marquee. I don't care. But most importantly, you know them as the theater lovers. They are here to talk to us about the Tony nominations of 2026 and our reactions to them. Rachel, Will, welcome back.
- [01:07]
A
Hi, Matt. Thanks for having us.
- [01:10]
C
It's so good to be here.
- [01:11]
B
I always am never sure how to do your intro because Will has the shorter name, but yours is alphabetically first. So I'm always like, how do we do this?
- [01:21]
A
I don't care what you call me, just call me.
- [01:24]
B
That is the perfect reaction. That is how I know you're into theater. Guys, it's fucking Tony Tuesday. It's Taco Tuesday. Cinco de Mayo. And Tony nominated Steer clear of Hell's Kitchen.
- [01:35]
C
They laid out Cinco de Paul de Mayo.
- [01:38]
A
Cinco de Paul de Mayo. Wow.
- [01:41]
B
Write it down and post it before someone else steals it. Come on.
- [01:45]
A
Hold on. Say it again.
- [01:48]
C
Cinco de Paul de Mayo.
- [01:50]
B
Cinco de Paul de Mayo.
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A
This is the dessert.
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B
How are we feeling this morning?
- [01:58]
C
Feel good.
- [01:59]
A
You know, I feel like, overall, it went kind of how I want, not wanted it. I. It went how I expected it to go with. With very few exceptions. So I've seen a lot of reactions online of people being like, wow, like, what happened? And I was like, what do you mean, what happened? Pretty much exactly what everyone expected. I don't know. The surprises were fun, though. But mostly I'm tired. It's early. Why are we doing this early?
- [02:31]
B
Because I'm an insane. I'm an insane person knowing.
- [02:34]
A
Not you. The nomination.
- [02:35]
C
No, that's.
- [02:35]
A
Yeah. Not the nominations. Knowing that everybody, like, works nights, it's actually kind of cruel to do it so early in the morning. I feel like. Like, drop them at midnight. You know what I mean? While everybody's still up.
- [02:48]
B
Yeah, I would probably do that, too. I feel like if I were to do them, I would do them either, like, right after everybody shows when they're extraordinarily tired. Or like five in the morning when no one's awake. I want no one to know that they've dropped. And then I want them to go about their day. And as they're at, like, Amy's Bread on Ninth Avenue, someone comes up to you and goes, I'm so sorry. You must feel terrible right now. And you're like, wait, what happened? Did my mom die? No. You weren't nominated for best sound design of a play, sweetie.
- [03:15]
A
Again. Again. That keeps happening to me, by the way.
- [03:20]
B
Well, you know, the truth is, Rachel, you do wonderful work, but your reputation as a person just gets in the way really bad.
- [03:27]
A
I know. I gotta work on that. That's what everybody keeps telling me. Oh, wait. Did we discuss the elephant in the room? That is our dog. Dot. On Will's lap. Guys, Dots here, a permanent fixture of Will's lap.
- [03:43]
C
Yeah. She must be close at all times,
- [03:46]
B
otherwise she starts barking.
- [03:48]
A
Yeah, I was gonna say. And when she barks, you'll know that she means it. Whatever the. Whatever we're talking about at the time, she's got something to say. But Dot's here. Dot Seurat.
- [03:57]
C
Dot's Dot's gonna be able to. She's gonna be heard on the mic because of your great sound design on a play, Rachel.
- [04:03]
B
So fancy.
- [04:04]
A
And the play is my life. Anyway, enough about me.
- [04:08]
B
But we do have to get to you because we're going to get to sound design of a play at some point, but I figured. Okay, how do we want to do this? Do we want to kind of go with some immediate headlines, things that caught our eye, things that caught our attention, or do we kind of want to work our way down or up?
- [04:26]
A
Let's do everybody's favorite surprise.
- [04:28]
C
Great.
- [04:29]
B
And then I'm assuming on an emphasis on it being a pleasant surprise.
- [04:34]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it could be either way.
- [04:36]
B
Sure.
- [04:38]
A
Well, we're. We're.
- [04:38]
B
We're all relatively kind people. So even if someone got in who we maybe weren't expecting on and at the expense of someone we wanted, we can say so in a kind enough way. No one took a nomination from anybody.
- [04:50]
A
No shade. I mean, this is. I mean, we're making a subjective thing, a competitive thing that's already terrible. So it's never. It's never any shade to anybody. But since we're doing it, we gotta do it.
- [05:03]
C
Let's.
- [05:03]
B
Let's. If we're. Yeah. If we're gonna talk about this, let's not, you know, sorry for the term, but let's not pussyfoot around, Will. Okay?
- [05:11]
A
And he's always saying that.
- [05:12]
B
He's always saying it. Yeah. Every time I meet him at Schmackers, he goes, let's not pussyfoot around. And I go, we're ordering some cookies today. Will, for you. What was a big surprise for you today?
- [05:26]
C
I was so pleasantly surprised to see an honor for Mary Mitchell Campbell. Mary Mitchell Campbell at Encores. For someone to get their flowers while they're still working and relatively new to Encores in that headlining position. I'm so happy for her.
- [05:55]
B
And a competitive category, Will.
- [05:57]
C
Oh, no, I.
- [05:59]
B
Give me a competitive category now, please.
- [06:02]
C
Was that a known thing?
- [06:04]
B
Didn't they announce it before, like, two days ago, that who the lifetime achievement awards or honorary awards were?
- [06:09]
A
Oh, they definitely announced some of them. I can't remember if she was on that list yet or not or if this was dropped today,
- [06:17]
B
but maybe I'm wrong, But give me a competitive one, baby.
- [06:23]
C
Three. Only three nominees for revival of a musical.
- [06:29]
B
Well, we. I feel like it would only have been four if there was a tie, and. Cause it was five. Five contenders. So it was three nominees. But were you. So you were expecting it to be 4? With Rocky Horror, Chest, Ragtime, and Cats?
- [06:44]
C
Yeah.
- [06:44]
B
Okay.
- [06:45]
A
See, this is why we come on this podcast. Because you have all the stats.
- [06:49]
B
I do have the stats.
- [06:50]
A
You know exactly what everything is.
- [06:52]
B
Why when it comes to taxes and financials, numbers make no sense to me. But when it comes to Tony Awards, I can tell you how those numbers work.
- [07:01]
A
You just need an accountant that can explain everything as though it's the Tony Awards.
- [07:08]
B
Yeah, that. I think that's how.
- [07:10]
C
Now, Dow Jones.
- [07:12]
B
Yes. Have I got a musical for you. God damn it. Rachel. What was a big surprise for you today?
- [07:20]
A
Pleasant surprises in featured actress and featured actor in a musical. I was so pleasantly surprised by Rachel Dratch. I screamed out loud. And I was also really pleasantly surprised for Leighton Williams, for Titanique, because I left Titanique and I was like, you know who I loved? The iceberg.
- [07:45]
B
The iceberg bitch. Let us have it.
- [07:47]
A
Let us have it. No, I was really like. That was like my. If I. If I ruled the world, I was like, they'd get an A million percent. So. I was so thrilled to see it. I really was.
- [07:58]
B
Yeah, I. In our. They weren't really prediction predictions in the last episode. They were like bolt swings. What we wanted, what we thought could happen. They weren't, like, official. Here are my predictions. But I talked a bit about Leighton Williams and how I sort of felt like it was a real possibility. He was getting nominated elsewhere. Even though those award shows don't really overlap with the Tonys anyway. But they can help with momentum sometimes. And I. I didn't say it in so many words, but I was like, I feel like basic nominators are gonna nominate Jim Parsons. Cause that's the bigger and essentially better role.
- [08:34]
A
That's the flashier, flashier.
- [08:37]
B
But anyone who saw Russell Daniels off Broadway can see that, like, while Jim Parsons does a nice job is not anywhere near, like, what that role could be. And Leighton takes what is essentially like a cameo and turns it into this fucking showstopper. If they are interesting nominators, they'll nominate Leighton. And then they did it. And I was happy. Yay.
- [08:57]
A
That was my pleasant surprise for sure.
- [09:00]
B
Yeah, I had a few pleasant surprises myself. I was very happy that Hannah Cruise got in for Chess. I've been banging that drum since November. She's giving my favorite performance in that show. I won't stop talking about it. Other thing, I'll go on to other ones that are also things that I had mentioned on this podcast for a while as my gut feelings that ended up being right and some that maybe led astray. I will say a negative surprise for me is Marjorie prime not getting in for revival. Especially because June Squibb and Danny Burstein got in and I was like, oh, great. Not going to forget about it. And then they kicked her out of the bed.
- [09:38]
A
God damn it. Not like this.
- [09:40]
B
Not like this. They. They kicked Grandma Marjorie out of bed and said, have Alzheimer's on your own.
- [09:47]
A
That's so tough. Squi. How unlike a wooer Squib was my other pleasant surprise. She was on my list. But you. You just never know.
- [09:55]
B
Yeah.
- [09:56]
A
And we also, in full transparency, we. We are far less caught up on plays than we are the musicals. So I just felt like even putting my list together, I was like, I have so many blind spots that putting a list together felt like a fool's errand. I was like, I have no idea what's actually gonna end up being nominated. Cause I didn't see half the plays. And that's my fault.
- [10:21]
B
You know, we're still.
- [10:22]
C
We're still planning on rushing Little Bear Ridge Road, so.
- [10:25]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [10:26]
B
I think that's probably, like, tomorrow morning.
- [10:28]
A
Gotta get to the back.
- [10:29]
B
Yeah, I think that's a good idea. Yeah.
- [10:30]
A
Yeah.
- [10:31]
B
It's not too late. Well, the good news is that yours truly saw everything.
- [10:36]
A
Yeah. Always. Yes.
- [10:37]
B
Yes. Yeah. So when we talk about some of these play categories, if. If you can ask any questions about, like, what's the deal with that? Is that accurate? How do you feel about that? I'm happy to do that for you. That's. That's my little tour guide for you. But, yeah, I will say there were shows that, like, both overperformed and underperformed at the same time, if that makes sense. Like, got in categories that I didn't expect them to and then didn't get in categories that I feel like everyone just assumed were Lockes. And so that was very surprising to me.
- [11:04]
A
What's your big example of that?
- [11:08]
B
I guess, like, both, like, Chess and Jellicle Ball. Like, I really thought that Chess was kind of gonna walk away with just an Orchestration nomination. And Nick Christopher, once it became clear that we were gonna get five nominees, an actor, I was like, oh, it's Nick and Brandon are getting in. Because was for me, the biggest question of when it was supposed to be four. Before Andrew Durand was deemed lead, I went, oh, the question is, like, amongst Luke Evans, Nick Christopher, and Brandon Uranowitz, who are going to be those last two in the category, because Josh and Sam are locked in. And then when they said, well, Durand is going to be lead, so it's nine nominees, which means there are nine contenders, so there will be five nominees. I went, oh, easy breezy, Brandon, Nick and. And Luke all get in fine.
- [11:47]
A
Yeah.
- [11:48]
B
But when I assumed that they would get Nick and orchestrations and then, like, potentially choreography, I was. I was pretty hesitant to say that they were going to get in there. I did not enjoy the choreography. Lauren Lotaro does not do it for me as a choreographer. And also, just like in years past, she's done this. She's also, like, had shows, a lot of choreography. People assume she's going to get in, and then she doesn't. And I'm like, I feel like it's going to happen again. And then. And when Leah didn't get in for actress, which I want to talk about in a second as well, because that's another thing I said in the last episode. I was like, guys, Shu is eligible in lead. Does this do anything for lead actress? And everyone said no. And I went, okay, I guess I'm the idiot then. And then I was a goddamn prophet. But I digress. But when Leah didn't get in, I
- [12:35]
A
didn't surprise me at all.
- [12:37]
B
When Leah. When Leah didn't get in, I was like, okay, so I think it's going to, you know, go, however. But then when Hannah and Bryce both got in and Featured, I went, oh, like, I don't think they're getting a revival. Like, maybe choreography also will happen now. And then it didn't. And so that was interesting. So, like, they both overperformed and underperformed, and then Jellica Wall did basically what I expected. It's just Tempuris not getting in for featured actress. And then no Junior or Sidney as a second nominee for featured actor kind of surprised me, but I don't think there's any double nominees in the featureds at all. In musical. Yeah. So everyone got one. So that in. In the end, it makes sense. They. They spread the wealth.
- [13:16]
A
Yeah.
- [13:17]
B
Yeah. I think we should talk about, though, Rachel's category. Sound design of a play.
- [13:21]
A
So where we're starting, I don't know.
- [13:23]
B
We're gonna go all over. We. We're gonna do, like, don't leave. Don't leave, don't leave. No, I'm very big. I like to cover all the categories, but also, I feel like if we start big and then go small, people are gonna trail off at the end. And if you start small, if we just do small, people are going to leave. So we'll do one small, one big. I'm going to pick the small.
- [13:40]
A
Can't give it all away.
- [13:41]
C
One small, one Bug big.
- [13:44]
B
There you go. Thank you, Will. Thank you. And because of that, Will, you don't get to choose the big category now, which will, I will say sound design of a play. So we have Justin Ellington for Joe Turner's Come and Gone. That's another one that kind of overperformed and underperformed at the same time for me. Tom Gibbons for Oedipus, Lee Kinney for fear of 13, Josh Schmidt for both Rug and Mikel Suleiman for Death of a Salesman. Fear of 13 is probably the big surprise for me here. I thought every day every brilliant thing would get in here, especially when it made a surprise revival nomination. Because the sound design of that show is really exceptional when you consider that, like, you have to be able to hear what everyone in that audience says when Daniel's like, number 7240.
- [14:31]
A
Yeah.
- [14:31]
B
And. Yeah. And so I thought that was gonna get in there, but it didn't. But Bug I'm thrilled with Oedipus is great. Salesman is going to win it, I'm pretty sure.
- [14:43]
A
But also, what's the thought there for
- [14:47]
B
why Salesman's gonna win it?
- [14:48]
A
Yeah.
- [14:50]
B
This production of Salesman, the way it was sort of described to me, which really kind of locks it all in, is that this production Feels like it all takes place within Willy Loman's mind. It's the most I've ever seen Salesman feel like a memory play. And the way that Mantello does that is. It's a very. I mean, it's a literal set, but it's also very abstract. And the lighting and the sound design are used to really hone in on when a scene is memory, when it's real. The way sound design is used to have an effect harken into Nathan Lane's mind. Like he's having a scene with Laurie Metcalf. And then all of a sudden you'll hear a sound effect that is going to tie into a memory scene in about five minutes. And it kind of all pins together. And also, I mean, for a play that doesn't sound miced in a 1500 seat theater, the fact that you can hear everyone is really exceptional, subtle work. Oedipus is sort of the same way. It's also not. If it is mic'd, you can't really tell. That was really great. And also Oedipus had all of the different TVs on with different news stations on, and it never felt overwhelming. It was. I would say those are the two that are kind of battling it out for most of the categories. But yeah, Salesman just sort of on a technical level, what they all do to make this feel fresh and fluid is really exciting while still using all
- [16:14]
C
of the text that was there from 1949 and making it feel fresh. Sound wise.
- [16:22]
B
Yeah. I mean, that's what a revival should do. They don't always do that. But with Salesman, I'm like, yeah, that's how. That's how you do a revival.
- [16:31]
C
Sure thought about Oedipus and sound design. I don't know that. I don't know if anyone else noticed this. At one point, they played the same Otis Redding song four times in a row in the background. And I was like, what? Cause I had that John Mulaney what's New Pussycat? Thought Where I was like, oh, I guess the song is a lot longer than I remember. And then it started again. Cause you get to that part where he's like. And I was like, no, we're here again and the scene is happening. Everyone's great. But I was having my own little moment of like, what is this? Like Otis sings foreshadowing what's happening during dinner. So things happen.
- [17:15]
A
We never talk about that.
- [17:18]
B
You're the first one to ever say that, Will.
- [17:21]
A
It's also the most Will observation. I've ever heard in my entire life, number one. But how did we never talk about that? We've talked about that play ad nauseam.
- [17:30]
C
It was a, it was a meme that I had tried to make. And I was like, I'm just. This isn't clicking. I don't think it's gonna, I think it's too specific in reference.
- [17:39]
B
And you're the only person that noticed it. Yeah.
- [17:42]
C
But it was gonna be the album cover for Otis Blue, Otis Sings Soul. And it was gonna say Oedipus Blue. Oedipus Sings Foreshadowing. And I was like, this is, this isn't for anybody.
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B
It's like, that's not even for five people. That's for just you.
- [17:57]
A
It's barely for the people in the play.
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C
None people's favorite thing.
- [18:02]
B
Yeah, it's. It's just you.
- [18:04]
C
Just none people's favorite thing.
- [18:07]
B
My biggest pride and joy this year was coming up with the joke that Leslie Manville and Mark Strong performed the title song of Oedipus because. Say it out loud. Oedipus. Yep, yep. Rachel got it. Yeah, there we go. The listeners know too. It's one of my favorite jokes of the year. But I digress.
- [18:29]
C
That's how we got everyone to agree on the pronunciation.
- [18:32]
B
Exactly. The entire audience walked in and went, oh, God, how pretentious. They're calling him Oedipus. And then they do that scene where everyone goes, oh, now I get it. Anywho, Rachel, pick us a nice big old category, please.
- [18:45]
A
Should we go sound design of a musical? Just like, let's go back to back.
- [18:48]
B
Sure, if you want, we can do that or we can do a big headline, headline catching category if you want.
- [18:54]
A
Oh, boy. Let's leave the biggest ones for last. Let's go.
- [19:03]
C
Costume design of a one person show.
- [19:06]
A
Hey, it's my turn. Let's go. Leading actor in a musical. I feel like this is amazing. This is good. Um, I would like to say that I, this is the only category where I correctly predicted all of them. Every other cat or. That's not true. The, the, the main play and musical category. I, I also did. But as far as performances go, this is the only one that I got right.
- [19:33]
B
Um, I can't recall how many I, I if, which ones I got fully right. Leading actor in a musical.
- [19:40]
A
I would assume it's quite a few.
- [19:42]
B
Yeah. I think in terms of performances, Lead actor in a musical, lead actor in a play, and lead actress in a play, I got fully right. And I think lead actress in a Musical. I got one wrong, but that's because I didn't trust my gut. But, yeah, this is. I think this is a solid lineup. Is there anybody here who's really kind of surprising us? Not in here. I mean, Rachel, obviously not you. You predicted this.
- [20:04]
A
Just because I predicted it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with it. But, yes, I think this is a very solid list. We were an Instagram live right before we hopped on with you, and there was somebody who was talking about, like, the race between Nicholas Christopher and Joshua Henry, and I had to be like, respectfully, what are we talking about here?
- [20:25]
B
Yeah, it's not.
- [20:27]
A
It's not. It's not.
- [20:28]
B
It's.
- [20:28]
A
It's Joshua's time. It's.
- [20:30]
B
I mean, I think. I think if there's any potential of a spoiler, it won't be Nick, it'll be Sam. And that's Sam. Yeah. Sam has, like, a genuine horse in the race with two strangers for Musical. That's the. And he's giving a lovely performance. But that's what I mean of, like, it's not just the individual. You have to look at the property they're a part of and how that pushes them forward. But, like, yeah, I. It's one of those things. We work ourselves into a tizzy. And then it was Agatha all along. Like, it's. I think we can just sort of breed and go. There are other categories that have chaos. Like, this is an easy one. It's Josh.
- [21:05]
A
Yeah. And if it's not Josh, I just don't know what he would have to do to get it. Do you know what I mean? Like, at that point, like, who would he have to play to get.
- [21:16]
C
Just makes me think of how, like, every year the voters and nominators would have to. For Joshua Henry to not win despite so much excellent work, they have to pass his name and be like, okay, like, we'll get him. Like, we'll get him his award, but, like, not this year. And so how many years can you do that before you're like, it's his time and he is always excellent.
- [21:46]
A
Yeah.
- [21:47]
C
We've been on the Josh Wendy train
- [21:48]
A
for so long, and he's in the zeitgeist. I mean, like, he. It's the Sarah come down to me of it all. He sang on the Met steps last night. It's like, he is. He's the. It's his moment. I would be. I'd eat my shoe.
- [22:01]
B
I would. He. His campaign has been very good because it hasn't felt super forceful. I was like, the Met video was, like, the only time I was like, okay, that's like, let's take a step back.
- [22:14]
A
That's not his fault. You know what I mean? It's like, great.
- [22:17]
B
The video is good, but you know what I mean? It's sort of like the night before the Tony nominations. It's just one of those things. I'm like, we. We should have timed this a little bit better. But also, I don't know. The Met gala happened the night before the Tony nominations. That's how it worked out.
- [22:27]
A
And you get asked to sing on the Met steps, and, like, what are you gonna say? Like, especially when you're in the middle of an active campaign, you're not saying no. It's just, you know, the way that it's presented, you have no control over. But, I mean, he's always. He's excellent. So what are we. What are we doing exactly?
- [22:43]
B
No, I think it's him. I'm glad he's, you know, getting his flowers. Brandon is also really excellent in Ragtime, but Brandon also won. And the thing about Tata is he doesn't really have a musical moment that audiences can, like, hold onto in the way that Josh does. And we'll talk about. That's actually kind of important for a lot of musical performances. We'll talk about that more in other categories later. But, no, I think this is a really solid lineup. I mean, I enjoy LJ in Lost Boys. I think that Michael's actually kind of like the least interesting character in the musical, sort of by design. Like, he's sort of meant to be a sad sack, wet blanket. So that way, all the other crazy characters can glom onto him and make him less wet or wetter, however you view it. But, yeah, no, he's really strong. I think he's doing a good job.
- [23:34]
A
Great voice.
- [23:35]
B
Great voice. You know, I love my thick folds. When he and Ali sing together, I'm like, Ah, the 90s are back. But no, he's. It's just. This is a tough five. It's just the moment it became five and not four, I was like, oh, I'm so sorry to everyone else, but
- [23:51]
A
it's lots of this. Is that.
- [23:52]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. Uh, Will, do you want to pick a category, or do you have anything else to say here?
- [23:58]
C
Let's go. We just did leading actor in a musical. Let's do leading actress in a musical.
- [24:04]
B
Okay. Sound design of a play. Leading actor, musical. Leading actress, musical. Okay. So there are indeed a couple of surprises here.
- [24:14]
A
Mm.
- [24:18]
B
Who wants to speak on it.
- [24:19]
A
Will's category.
- [24:20]
B
Will, your category. Talk to me.
- [24:24]
C
I'm so happy to see Marla Mandel for Titanique. I love comic performances being celebrated with awards and nominations and yes, we. And same with Sarah Chase and Schmegadoon to see. We think of acting as acting and like italic and very serious. But the performances that I really latch onto and keep thinking about after so often are comedic. So this feels great to me.
- [25:01]
A
Yeah.
- [25:01]
C
Kayce Levy in Ragtime.
- [25:03]
B
Super fun.
- [25:04]
C
Excellent.
- [25:06]
B
The way she died. Super funny. She digs out that baby like she's in a Max Sennett movie.
- [25:15]
A
The baby that never directed.
- [25:19]
B
Yeah. Sorry, you were saying though, I interrupted you. Oh.
- [25:22]
C
Like it's. I love how you have all of these different performance styles together. It just feels like a good category.
- [25:32]
A
Yeah.
- [25:33]
B
Rachel, what are your thoughts?
- [25:34]
A
Yeah, yeah. Very similar. The Stephanie of it all was really exciting. Obviously you never want to rain on anybody else's parade, for lack of a better word. But yeah, tough.
- [25:52]
B
Tough break.
- [25:53]
A
Yeah, tough. But I, I don't know, I think it's tough because I, I haven't seen Chess and I haven't seen Rocky Horror, so I can't really speak to like one over the other. But what I can say is similarly to Will, like, loved Marla Mandel and Titanique Off Broadway. And I thought her, her performance translated on Broadway better than a lot of the other ones. Like, I think she can really fill the space, which was my biggest concern with moving such a, like an insane show into like such a big room. Like, are you gonna be able to, to hold the room? And I think she really does. Sarah Chase is the heart of Schmagadoon. So it's sort of like without her charisma, uniqueness, nerve and talent that, that thing's not going anywhere. So I don't know. And then, you know, ragtime, Two Strangers, it's like it all makes sense to me.
- [26:52]
B
Yeah. There was, There was a time during the drama desk out of critics Circle, Cristiani was not getting nominated and people were getting nervous and I kind of had to sort of go like, nobody, calm down. It's. They're blended categories. They're also including off Broadway. Like, people who are going to get nominated are not going to be found here. So it's okay. So. But also, like with Two Strangers, there's no way you nominate that show for best musical and then not nominate the two of them because it is, it's not a star vehicle. It's such a two hander.
- [27:23]
A
Yeah.
- [27:24]
B
And I Do think. I actually think she has kind of the harder role he has, the more, like, dynamic material. And what's difficult about his role is that Dougal can be so annoying in the wrong hands. And I actually don't ever want to see it performed by anyone but Sam Tutty, because he's so good at not making Dougal the worst.
- [27:41]
A
Vinny's very good, I will say.
- [27:43]
B
I'm sure he is. I just.
- [27:44]
A
I. I'm sorry, I gotta.
- [27:46]
B
I'm not that up on the show. And so I'm like. Because I don't give hesch of, like, the benefit of the doubt, I'm just like, I'm gonna keep my memory of Sam because I'm fearful if I see it with someone I don't like, I'm going to get worse on the show. But I get it.
- [27:59]
A
I get it. But I will say in. In Vinny's defense,
- [28:03]
B
defense attorney Vinny, you have your defenders. And I'm not here for you. Here to come for you. Vinny, please understand that 100%.
- [28:10]
A
He's a stupid.
- [28:11]
B
Cristiani's role is, like. She's similar to, like, LJ in Lost Boys. Her job is to kind of never say yes and to Dougal, that sort of joke. And she's.
- [28:19]
A
She's got demons.
- [28:20]
B
And I think she's really good at doing all of that without being dour herself, which is really hard to do. So I really appreciate that. Sarah Chase. Yeah, that was something that I don't think anybody, a month ago really was really clocking. But then, as the show was in previews, everyone's like, oh, this really, like, she and Brightman, it's their story, it's their narrative and the difference between the two of them and their characters. Cause they both do lovely jobs. Her character. Yes. Ands into Shima Gadoon early enough that she gets to have songs and, like, have a lot more fun. Whereas Brightman has to unfortunately be the no guy until the very end. And the payoff is lovely, but, like, it's really hard to wait that long for that payoff for him. And also, like, we have a whole history with Sarah Chase. We like her. We've loved her in so many things.
- [29:06]
A
This is for her.
- [29:08]
B
Marla. Yes, absolutely. Casey, the thing about Shue. Okay, I want to say this right here, right now, please.
- [29:12]
A
Yeah. You have the floor.
- [29:14]
B
Thank you. So I was quoted a few times in our last episode saying Stephanie Hsu was going to happen now that she's in lead. And I love my friends, but, like, Connor and Dylan were like, I don't think so. I think even Sam and Juan were like, uh, maybe, maybe. But everyone's like, I think, you know, I think we got Chase in there. And then, like, it's really between Vosk and Leah for the last slot. And on paper, that makes sense. Yeah. Similar to Sarah Chase, Vosk has been around. We like her. She's getting a leg up. But ultimately, Beaches does not work. Leah has been on a major redemption campaign tour. She came in and did a great job with Funny Girl. That show got cooped. She's a producer on Chess. Um, she's really working hard. And speaking of, you know, Tony campaigning, the last, like, two months have really been like, leah, Leah. She got a caricature at Sardis that they claim is hers. She has a My Life in the Theater on Playville and has really kind of emphasized how, like, grateful she is to be back in theater. And I'm sure it's genuine, but, like, it was a lot. This is, like, the downside of when you're pushing so much towards the end of nominations, it can feel a little overbearing. And the one thing that voters and nominators hate is you kind of, like, forcing them who to vote for.
- [30:24]
A
Yeah.
- [30:25]
B
And so it felt a little bit of like, okay, we get it. Leah's here, and she's on Broadway, and we should be so grateful. But, like, let me decide if her performance is worthy. And she sounds great, but I've been very vocal that I think, acting wise, she doesn't really have it locked in in the way that Nick and Hannah do. And when Shuu was decided to be a lead contender, I wasn't fully convinced she was gonna get in, but my gut was like, I don't know, maybe. Cause she's. I would say she's probably my favorite or second favorite performance in Rocky Horror. I think she. Her comedy in it is Chef's Kiss. When Luke Evans is seducing her in the bed, she does what I can only call Legography. And it's one singular leg. She's like, one leg. It's like she's got one leg that's stuck in 1950s Republican conservatism and one leg that is horny, horny, horny. And so it's like, what she does with it. I just go. I watch her and I go, you're a freak, and I love you. Thank God you're here.
- [31:20]
A
Mm.
- [31:20]
B
And so I'm very, very happy that she's in this category. Overall, I'm very happy with this lineup, uh, there's nobody I would kick. It's funny. I can't wait for you to see it. I think you'll like it.
- [31:30]
A
I'm so excited. Yeah.
- [31:31]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [31:31]
A
Oh, that's so funny.
- [31:32]
B
Okay, my turn.
- [31:33]
A
I'm gonna.
- [31:34]
B
I'm gonna do a smaller category. Yeah.
- [31:36]
A
All right. A little freaky with it.
- [31:37]
B
A little freaky with it, actually. Okay. I'm gonna do one of the ones where we have a tie. Let's do lightning design of a musical. We have Kevin Adams for Chess, Jane Cox for the Rocky Horror Show, Donald Holder for Schmigadoon, Adam Honore for Cats, the Jellicoe Ball, as well as Adam Honore and donald holder for. Oh, and 59 studio for ragtime and Jen Shriver and Michael Arden for the Lost Boys. So we got two folks in here who are nominated twice. Adam Honore and Donald Holder. Good for them.
- [32:10]
A
Wild.
- [32:10]
B
Yeah. And this is. Okay, so I think this is lighting design of a musical and lightning design of a play. Both have six. So that means there were exact ties in both of those categories.
- [32:19]
A
Wild.
- [32:20]
B
Yeah. And featured action to play. But we'll get to that. Super. Wild. I. This is actually not a bad lineup. If I were to cut one out, I would probably cut out Chess. But I mean. Yeah, there's. I don't think there's anything terrible here. I think that Lost Boys. I mean, Lost Boys lighting is. I don't like to.
- [32:45]
A
Yeah, well, when. When they were announcing it and they got to five and Lost Boys wasn't it. I was literally like, what are we doing? What are we doing? Like, I was like, if that can't even get nominated, I don't know what. What's going on and that. And it was also the spacing on the screen made it look like it was full. So I was like worried that that
- [33:06]
B
was me with last year when they got. When they were doing leading actor of a musical. Because I think based on the. The last names, I think Jeremy Jordan for Floyd Collins was the last one announced because we got. We got to, I think Groff or whoever it was. And I was like, oh, my God. They. They snubbed Jeremy and then they did six. I was like, okay, here we are. Thank God.
- [33:26]
A
This is James Monroe Iglehart, right?
- [33:28]
B
Yeah, Iglehart was the. Was the surprise. And when he got in, I was like, oh, fuck, is that at the expense of Jordan? And then Jordan got in. But like, yeah, that's. That's the double edged sword of six nominees. Like, you don't know it's going to six, so you get to the fifth.
- [33:45]
A
You're, like, so fun.
- [33:47]
B
Yeah. Because, I mean, I. Lost Boys right now is sort of my. I think has the edge to win here. Like that lighting design is just so stunning.
- [33:55]
A
I think all the technical categories should.
- [33:59]
B
No costumes is going to be Cats. And I don't.
- [34:03]
A
I'm thinking, like, scenic, lighting and sound.
- [34:06]
B
For sure. For sure. Yeah. Is there anything in here that. Other than it being six. Any other major surprises for us here?
- [34:16]
A
No surprises. I mean, Cats might take it.
- [34:19]
B
I do. I think it's down to Cats and Lost Boys. Rocky. Oh. Horror's Lightning design is not necessarily intricate, but it's very appropriate for what the show is doing. Chess and Ragtime both is lighting design that's working overtime to make up for the lack of set.
- [34:34]
A
And speaking of, I think what I did have on my list was Titanique. Their lighting plot was nuts.
- [34:42]
B
Yeah, they did a really good job,
- [34:43]
A
but it was like. It was a lot.
- [34:46]
B
Yes.
- [34:47]
C
I remember one of my most visceral memories of Titanique is also the lights doing that thing into the audience. I was like, oh, and I've got sensitive eyes. So I kept doing that throughout the show.
- [35:00]
B
That might be what did it for them to get knocked out. Nominators were like, enough of flashing it into my eyes. Flash it on the actors, please.
- [35:07]
A
Sure. I mean, that's fair. They lit it like it was a rock concert.
- [35:12]
B
Yeah. I'm gonna tie this in actually into Lightning's design of a play for a quick second. Yes. We got Isabella Bird for Dog Day Afternoon. Not a surprise. Natasha Chivers for Oedipus. Not a surprise. Stacy De Rosier for Joe Turner's coming. Gone. Bit of a surprise. Heather Gilbert twice for Bug and fear of 13. Surprise there. And then Jack Knowles for Salesman. Not a surprise. I know that you guys haven't seen all of the plays, but is there anything here that you have seen?
- [35:40]
A
Yes.
- [35:41]
B
Yeah.
- [35:41]
A
We saw Oedipus, we saw Dog Day, and we saw Joe Turner. So half.
- [35:46]
B
Yeah. I feel vindicated. I had said early on that I thought that Dog Day was going to make it into all of the below the line categories. All the design stuff, and then blank on all the top stuff, which it did. Um, I did acknowledge I thought Joe Turner was gonna come in for most of the design stuff. It did, except for set. We'll get to that. Um, I thought that was going to lend it to a revival nomination. Even though I wasn't in love with this revival. It just sort of felt like that to me. We'll discuss that in a second. But the lighting design of Joe Turner is good, especially when they get to the end of act one. That's really important. Fear of 13. I understand. I think I'm more just sort of surprised that we got a tie here. It makes you wonder, both with this and musical, what were the two? I'd imagine it was probably like, Joe Turner and fear of 13. Maybe. I don't know.
- [36:38]
A
They were like, we can't choose our favorite Heather Gilbert.
- [36:45]
B
We're going to pick both of Heather. Come on, Heather. I mean, when you see Salesman, you'll see sort of like what's going on with that one. But similar to the sound design, it's very integral to the success of that production.
- [36:56]
C
Even in seeing the production photography, it's very clear how much the lighting is a mood and artful, and it doesn't always lend itself to photography. But everything I've seen in Stills for a salesman has popped.
- [37:13]
B
Yeah. I think this is sort of the lighting design. In both of these categories. There's. You have. We basically have two versions of lighting design. The lighting design that helps emphasize the set and the lighting design that makes up for the lack of set. And it's nice to have the balance, and it'll be interesting to see which one wins the day in the end in both categories. Yeah. Okay. Rachel, you're up. So far, we've done sound design of a play, actor, actress, musical, and then lighting design for play and musical.
- [37:42]
A
Okay. Ooh, can we do. Because I want to talk about set design of a play. Because I want to talk about.
- [37:54]
B
Do you want to do that and musical together?
- [37:56]
A
Yeah, let's do it.
- [37:57]
B
Yay.
- [38:00]
A
Is it. I have the New York Times list pulled up.
- [38:05]
B
I have Playbill. Because I'm uncultured.
- [38:07]
A
No, I was looking for just one that was, like, condensed enough that I could see a lot of it at the same time because all of them are, like, so blown. Blown up. I'm like, I just want to be able to look at all of it at the same time. So I'm not missing. Might not even.
- [38:19]
C
You don't want to see placeholder thumbnails of where a picture sure would be.
- [38:24]
B
I love that. Although someone on the Discord did mention that when the. To the New York Times was updating the nominations, they had a misprint and they had Hannah Cruz in for Lost Boys. Integrity of journalism, New York Times. What can I say? First the Justin Baldoni expose, and now this.
- [38:43]
A
No comment.
- [38:44]
B
This is why you guys need to Be watching this on YouTube. You need to see both Rachel and Will's face when I said that.
- [38:48]
A
No comment. No comment. No comment. Okay. Yeah. Scenic design of a play. Do you want to read it or do you. I. I don't know how to say these names.
- [38:56]
B
Okay. I. Well, okay. Any name you don't want to say, I'll try to butcher it. Hildegard Bechtler for Oedipus, Takeshi Kata for Bug. And then I think you can handle the other three.
- [39:07]
A
Take Chloe Lamford for Death of a Salesman, David Corin's Dog Day Afternoon, and David Rockwell, Fallen Angels. So I want to talk about Dog Day Afternoon.
- [39:18]
B
Go for it.
- [39:19]
A
Because that's set, like, took my breath away. The way that the. In. However you feel about the play, which we can talk about if there's time, but essentially, if you haven't seen it, it's essentially the whole building is on a giant turntable, and you're going in and out of the bank, and then the inside of the bank, like, so intricate. I loved the way that, like. Like, the safe in the bed, like, I don't know. We. We had pretty decent seats as well, so I could see a lot of the details. Oh, Dot is being so sweet. I could see a lot of the details, and I just loved, I don't know, the whole. The colors and the, like, the vibe of everything. Like, I just was so placed in. And also, like, we don't live terribly far from where that took place. Like, in Brooklyn, we actually robbed a few banks, and we've robbed a few bangs. We saw a screening of Dog Day Afternoon. Grace Aki with Nighthawk does this amazing series called Stage to screen, where she'll screen. She just did one for the Lost Boys last night. But essentially, things that have been adapted from film to the stage. And it was like, I think, like, three or four blocks from where the bank robbery took place. Which is crazy. All that to say. I loved that set so much. I love a David Korin set in general. And I was very nervous seeing how terrible the reviews for Dog Day were. Unfortunately. Excuse me. That it was gonna get completely shut out. And I think it wasn't nominated for the drama desk for scenic design. And I was like, oh, no. Like, it's gonna. So I was. I was personally thrilled because of all the sets for plays that I've seen this season, that was my favorite one. So that's my soapbox.
- [41:18]
B
It's a good one.
- [41:21]
C
We got, like, the brown and orange of the color.
- [41:25]
B
Yeah.
- [41:27]
C
Wasn't that, like, spirit Halloween, 1970s costume idea of the 70s. It was like. No, it's kind of like kind of earth tones and it's not glamorous, but that's part of what sold the desperation of the situation in the show. I love it.
- [41:49]
B
I mean, you say the brown and the orange, and my mind just went to. And the brown and the brown and the beige. Brown and the beige and the brown.
- [41:56]
A
No, same era.
- [41:58]
B
Same era. The only thing that's missing here for me is the balusters, which is, I agree, amazing. Yeah.
- [42:05]
A
But modeled after. We went to a talk back after the play. And it's modeled after David Lindsay Abare's actual home, but then decorated as though it's a black woman's home.
- [42:18]
B
Yes. I love that. I love that. The truth is that there's no set here that I would delete for the Ballisters. Maybe. Maybe salesman. But the thing about salesman set is that it's not as elaborately intricate as the rest of these, but it does support the production it's in which ultimately is what you're supposed to nominate. And so, yeah, this is another one where I'm like, yeah, I could have had six. Would have been nice because, like, Bug is set, is very detailed and specific, and there's just a very big reveal in the second act that I know would probably, hopefully get a lot of people's attention. I did say in the last episode, I was like, let's not nominate Joe Turner's come and gone for set design. Like, let's maybe think about Bug. I mean, not. I was more sort of like saying, I would hope that nominators would. Would understand what Bug does well and looks like they did. But. Yeah, no, I mean, I think I look at this and I go, the Dog Day set design wise Dog Day kind of nails the assignment. It's the tone from the direction and a lot of the performances that do not. We will talk about that as we get to other categories because there are performers that I had people reach out to me about, like, how could they not get nominated? Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, it's. They are talented. The show is not helping them. But design wise, it. It does nail it. Fallen Angels. That David Rockwell art deco London flat is just like, stunning.
- [43:43]
A
Gorgeous. Gorgeous.
- [43:46]
B
Yeah. And then Oedipus. I mean, Oedipus is. Is a very austere looking set, but it's so deceptively. Yeah.
- [43:56]
A
Can I ask perhaps a silly question? The clock. Is that included in scenic design in the sense that, like, it's also obviously bigger than, like, obviously the scenic designer isn't the one that came up with the concept of having the clock running. But, like, if I'm a Tony voter and say that was like my favorite device of the whole season, like, I just, like, was so blown away by that. Are you taking the clock into account or are you just sort of like the. They. They chose the aesthetic for the clock. The clock itself is like its own separate thing.
- [44:37]
B
Is that I would view it as. Yeah, I would view. I would probably. It's not. That's not silly. I think that's something to mention. I. I would probably include the clock as its own separate thing and then make that a point of reference when I'm voting for revival. Like, I would not necessarily be able to differentiate how much of that is set and how much that is direction. And I would just throw my hands up in the air and go, okay, well then revival. Here we go. But yeah, I think that's. That is sort of the beauty of collaboration. That was absolutely a discussion between. I would assume that that was a director idea that then the set designer finessed into feeling like part of the world and not feeling so obviously a gimmick, which some people I know were not on that did not love that device. But I saw that. I was like, I'm sorry, we all know what it's doing. It's obvious what it's doing. But it is also still so much a part of this world that I don't feel forced with it.
- [45:30]
A
And that last 15 minutes of just being like, how are we gonna get there? How are we gonna get there? How are we gonna get there? Oh, yeah.
- [45:38]
B
I loved it. I'm so happy that Oedipus did so well today. Seems designed scenic design of a musical. We have dots for Richard o' Brien's the Rocky Horror Show, Sutra Gilmore for Two Strangers, Rachel Hawke for Cats, the Jellicoe Ball, Dan Laffrey for Lost Boys, and Scott Pask for Schmigadoon. Any surprise omissions here, folks? Or does it feel.
- [46:00]
A
No, I don't think so.
- [46:02]
C
I like this.
- [46:03]
A
I like it too. I mean, it's tough because I feel like each one of them is doing something very specific and they're all doing it at, like, the highest level possible. Whereas, like, Schmigadoon with those, like, hand painted sets and, like, there's so much charm and like, the world building and like, you just like, feel like you're in a little, like. I love, like, the Christmas Villages, you
- [46:29]
B
know what I mean?
- [46:30]
A
Like, the little. I was like, I feel like I'm in, like, the musical version of A Christmas Village, but it's the summer. Whatever. That's too many things. And then, like, obviously, the lofty, artful
- [46:38]
C
sense of depth, despite them being, oh, yeah, yeah.
- [46:42]
A
You feel like there's a whole town. Yeah, yeah.
- [46:45]
B
It was. I think it was a very heightened version of Golden Age set design, which I appreciated. Yeah. I think I had predicted that Queen of Versailles would get in here, and I think I predicted that sort of at the expense of two strangers. And two strangers getting in is not a hardship for me because I do actually like that set a lot. I think the very beigey suitcases at first sight is kind of underwhelming, but the way that it eventually reveals itself is very charming.
- [47:15]
A
But I think Schmigadoon's doing that same thing with the. You walk in and it's a vending machine on stage, and you're like, what the hell is this? Yeah, it's garbage. And then it's like, oh, okay, There's a whole world behind this vending machine. It's the same thing I love. And I don't know if it's, like, going back to my theater days in, like, high school, where we did group interpretation, where it's sort of like the set has to do a lot of the. Like, you don't get props, you don't get, like, whatever. So, like, the set is doing a lot of, like, the. The heavy lifting of, like, you know, surprises and those sorts of things. I was so charmed by two strangers as. As the Plague Goes on, and you're like, oh, my God, that suitcase is a bed and that one is, you know, whatever.
- [47:55]
B
Yeah, it was like a mini bar and all those things. Will, were you about to say something that I interrupted? I tend to do.
- [48:03]
C
I like that. Two strangers. The set reflects how we're supposed to view. Gosh, his name, Sam Tutty's character. That there's more there. Dougal. I was like, donald Dougal, that you're supposed to be like. When you meet him, you're like, oh, I guess there's not that much to this character. And then there's so much more that's revealed throughout the show, and that's how the set reveals itself to the audience. And there's a lot to play with, and it's interesting and deceptive.
- [48:36]
B
I'm also a sucker for a turntable always and forever. You put a turntable on stage and I'll be, like, a little slutty. For you. And this show is just like turning, turning, turning again.
- [48:49]
C
Turning through the years.
- [48:50]
B
Turning through the years. I am not as up on Two Strangers as a lot of its fans are, but I do recognize when it comes, what works about it. And I do think that the set is something that works about it. I think those two central performances work about it. And I actually applaud the director and the set designer for not caving into some. An asshole like me who would walk in and see. Walk into, like, the theater and just go, well, that's an interesting way to do a set design. And, like, not try to prove to me immediately what they're going on about. Like, no, we're gonna. We're gonna tease this out and show you what.
- [49:21]
A
Just that one suitcase, like, Doll's House.
- [49:27]
B
Just, I think. Was it Jesse Green in his review, who was like Jessica Chastain, revolving on the turntable like a pie in a. In a diner or something like that? It was like, such image. Yeah. Such a specific image every once in a while.
- [49:39]
A
Jesse Green, every once in a while.
- [49:42]
B
Honestly, I would say that for every New York Times theater critic. Like, every once in a while you get it right. Yeah. I mean, when you see Rocky Horror, it's such an interesting aesthetic. It tells you up front sort of what Pinkleton's going for. And in fact, Rocky Horror kind of overperformed in so many categories that I thought Pinkleton actually might get in at the expense of Lear for Ragtime. But we will talk about that when we get to director. When you walk in the theater, you understand, like, we're going for Party City on a budget. We are your community theater doing Rocky Horror. That's the vibe. And so when the show begins, it's like, I think a lot of people were expecting the 2000 revival from start to finish, which means a lot to a lot of us. But, like, dots design, tells you up front, no, no, no, no, no. This is going to be, like amateur hour plus, in a charming way. And that's. It's. There's a lot of surprise to that, which I appreciate. Anything else?
- [50:37]
A
While we're talking about this, can I also chime in on with the social media thing? And this is, like, no shade to cause. Obviously, I work with a lot of the people who make content for the shows, but my favorite trend of the season that, like, made me laugh every time was when they would get a cast reaction of them, like, seeing their set for the first time. And it's always the same, like, oh, my God, like, can you believe and it reminds me, did you see. Oh, hello. When it was on Broadway with John, it's like they have that line, will's going to remember it better than I am. But it's like, can you.
- [51:12]
C
Do you remember John Mulaney? The curtain goes up, and after they've been doing, like, you know, two people walking back and forth in one for the opening jokes, and then the set is revealed and John Mulaney goes, can you imagine having your expectations exceeded by a Broadway show having a set?
- [51:36]
A
And it's what I would think. Every time I was like, what did they expect to happen when. When they saw it for the first time? Especially when it was like. It was like thai technique. I was like, you guys, you can't be having that reaction for that set. There's no way.
- [51:51]
B
They all get to see the sketches and, like, model on the first day of rehearsal. So they know what this. That's gonna be.
- [51:56]
A
Yeah, listen. And is social media also theater? It is indeed. I'm not here to. I'm not here to yuck anybody's yum. But it did make me laugh every single time. I was like, we don't need. I don't need them reacting to their set. I just don't. Me, personally, but what do I know?
- [52:13]
B
Well, you know what shows didn't do that, like, the reveal of the set and the cast going chess and ragtime. Because they're like, we're not going to preserve.
- [52:22]
A
This has been fun. See you. Thanks for having me.
- [52:30]
B
I'm going to go anyway. Will, you're up next. We've done scenic design of play, musical lighting design of play, and musical sound design of play, Lead actor, lead actress, musical.
- [52:41]
C
Well, you had just mentioned you wanted to say something about direction, so let's jump into direction.
- [52:45]
B
Let's. Okay. Director of musical one. Let's go for it. All right. Will I go on the royal nominees. Will.
- [52:54]
C
I might be going the wrong way. Direction of a musical. We have Michael Arden with the Lost Boys. We have Lear de Bassinet at Ragtime. We have Christopher Gattelli in Schmigadoon. And Tim Jackson for Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York. And Jalen Livingston and Bill Rauch for Cat's the Jellicle Ball.
- [53:17]
B
Yeah, this is honestly what I expected about a month ago, and it's remained as such. I had Sam Pinkleton as a potential spoiler that I didn't fully believe in. And then when Shue got in for lead actress in a musical, I went, oh, I think Rocky Horror is about to Overperform. And then it. It did, essentially, except in the one category, which was Pinkleton. Otherwise, this has been exactly what I expected. I also think that it's kind of a done deal that Jaylen and Bill are gonna win for this. It's just. Yeah, I just think that they are. Which also ties into why I still think Jellicoe Ball is gonna win revival. Cause I don't understand how you vote for director of a musical and it's a revival, and then you don't vote for the revival that they directed. But, you know, Stranger Things is on Broadway and has happened and is still
- [54:17]
A
happening to this day.
- [54:18]
B
Yes, exactly.
- [54:20]
A
Jaelyn is a friend of ours, so we're deeply biased. Deeply biased. But I don't know, I'm loving in general the Andrew Lloyd Webber renaissance of just, like, getting a little freaky and weird with it. So I have a bias in that direction too, where I think it's just sort of like, if you can take a piece that everybody knows so intimately and turn it on its head like that, not only, like, you know, is it going to win?
- [54:51]
B
Yeah.
- [54:52]
A
But, like, it should. It just should.
- [54:54]
B
Yeah.
- [54:54]
A
Yeah. It's good theater, that's all. I don't know.
- [54:59]
C
It's a celebration of reinvention, which theater reinvents itself every night. But this feels like.
- [55:06]
A
And creative properties and having a singular vision and honoring what's come before. It's many things happening simultaneously, and I think they're all amazing. So I'm thrilled. We'll see. Obviously, we don't know what's going to happen, but, I mean, I think that.
- [55:27]
B
I don't know, I just don't see a narrative for everyone else. The way I see it for Jalen and Bill. Of like, Tim does a very nice job with Two Strangers. He keeps it moving. It gets the tone right. I'm glad he's in there for, you know, such a small, intimate musical, I think, ultimately. But this also just kind of reinforces what we were saying, or at least what I was saying of like, much as I love Titanique, it is a three way race amongst Lost boys and Schmidt Goodoon and Two Strangers for best musical, a category you cannot really win without a director or book nomination. And all three shows have that. Now, Titanic does not have a director nomination, so they are, I do think, out and then revival, like Ragtime and Cats, like, it's. That also is sort of a nomination that you need. And I just. I don't see Lear getting this. This production of Ragtime is pretty respectful of the Material to the point that I don't think anything really special is done with it. It relies heavily on the talent of its company. And Lear has put together a very wonderful company. I'm gonna leave it at that. Because I'm gonna leave it at that. Gattelli is very well liked. One could argue he's actually nominated twice here. No, sorry. I said I was going to leave it at that. I said I was going to leave it at that. Gattelli is a very well liked person. I think that if he's going to win anywhere, it's going to be in choreography for Schmigadoon. But also, that's another category. I'm like, guys, is Jellicoe Ball. It's Jellicoe Ball.
- [56:56]
A
I mean, unless the voting block just really, really decides that they don't want it. But I don't know why that would be.
- [57:06]
B
Racism, homophobia. But, like, that's not really a thing with Tony voters.
- [57:11]
A
We don't have time to unpack all of that.
- [57:14]
B
No, they're too busy just, like, getting their ballots in. I mean, the thing is that I think Ardyn just won again. He's not winning for Lost Boys, despite the fact that he's really kind of kept this huge ass ship on course. And there was a lot of. There were a lot of obstacles getting it on the stage, and. And previews were a bit messy, and they got it to two and a half hours. And, like, for all the things that I do think are still bumpy about Lost Boys, the fact that they worked out a lot of the kinks in so little time in such a public way is very respectful.
- [57:46]
A
It was very exciting. Yeah, it was really exciting.
- [57:50]
B
It's like, it's just such a bold swing and, like, huge colors. And I was reading an interview with him where he talked about, like, the inspiration from 80s mega musicals of just, like, that big, earnest, like, broadness. And I'm watching it going, yeah, I get that. And I think you're doing that. And that's. That's totally great. I mean, Shmika Dune. I think if Gattelli were to win, it would just be out of the fact that he's well respected. He's finally, like, making a name for himself as a director. He's proving that Death Becomes her wasn't a fluke. He should be given more musicals to helm. And if Schming Doon ends up being the best musical winner, which it could, remains to be seen, sort of exactly what people are feeling if they want to stick with the Small intimate shows like Kimberly Akimbo and Fun Home. If they want to go for a broad comedy again, which they really haven't done since Spamalot, or if they want to do, like, the big epic show, which they really haven't done since, like, I don't know, like, what's the big last big epic show they did? That's not Moulin Rouge, because that's Covid. That doesn't count. Like, Lion King, I guess. Like, that's really the last big epic. They were awarded, perhaps. Yeah, once.
- [58:54]
C
No, I'm trying to think of the. Of, like, giant shows.
- [58:58]
B
Once was Giant Feelings in a small vacuum.
- [59:01]
A
Hairspray.
- [59:03]
B
Hairspray, yeah. And Hairspray. Hairspray was also like, such a. Such a joyful, like. Like classic musical theater experience in a way that Lost Boys is kind of in. Not an edgier version of, but counter to.
- [59:15]
A
Yeah.
- [59:15]
B
So, no, I don't know.
- [59:16]
A
I wouldn't necessarily put them. But I'm just thinking of, like, a big splash. Like, you can't Stop the Beat. Tore the roof off that place every
- [59:23]
B
night, you know, and listen, that. That acapella vampire drink from our goblet number, that. That tears the roof off, as far as I'm concerned.
- [59:32]
C
Yeah.
- [59:33]
B
Yeah. What about you guys? How do we feel about this category?
- [59:39]
A
Yeah, I mean, I already spoke about Jalen, so.
- [59:42]
B
Yeah, but you didn't speak enough about Tim Jackson.
- [59:48]
A
I liked. I. I mean, again, wait, if we're going back to how intricate that set is, I mean, everything has to be directed within an inch of its life. That's not an easy thing to do. There's no. There's no fast and loose with it. So I think there's a lot to be said there. I think it's like. It's a. It's not the five, is it? Five of them. Six. Five. It's not the five of them that I had necessarily, like, had written down completely, but the majority of them. Yes.
- [60:18]
B
Yeah. Is there. If you were to add somebody, you
- [60:22]
C
don't have to say who you would
- [60:23]
B
take out, but, like, is there anybody from your original predictions you would plug back in there?
- [60:28]
A
Please hold. I have it pulled up. How about you, Will? Any thoughts while I'm pulling this up?
- [60:41]
C
I feel like maybe. Maybe Sam Pickleton, just based on how excited everyone has been to see what he's got to do.
- [60:54]
B
Yeah, I know that people were. There's a large contingency of people that were underwhelmed by Rocky Horror. I think they expected it to be a bit More of an exciting production again, our generation and the generation before us have very fond memories of the Tom Hewitt, Alice Stripley revival. And that was very much like Rocky Horror is on Broadway and it's going to be like grade A musical theater talent. And you're gonna have call and responses. And this production's a little more muted than that.
- [61:25]
C
But Rachel Dratch is there to say, hey, don't do that.
- [61:28]
B
Yeah. Which is fun.
- [61:30]
A
And they were like, nomination kind of. Yeah.
- [61:33]
B
Like, the nominators were like, thank God. I hate audiences. Somebody.
- [61:36]
A
Somebody had to do something. Here's what I'll say about what I had written down. I had four, and they're all accounted for.
- [61:45]
B
There you go. I'm going to turn this over to director of a play now that we're here. We have Nicholas Heitner for Giant, My Baby. That being Heitner. Not Giant, necessarily. Robert Ick for Oedipus, Kenny Leon for the Ballisters, Joe Mantello for Salesman, and Whitney White for Liberation. This is pretty much what I had. I did think that Tripp Coleman for Becky Shaw and Debbie Allen for Joe Turner were. They were like, on the cusp and could get in there. I think that the ones who were most vulnerable were Heitner and Leon. But with Giant and Ballister's being formidable, best play presences, I did not see a world in which they didn't get in. Much as I love Margaery Prime, I was hoping they would get in for Revival, but I knew Anne Coffin wasn't going to get in. I made peace with it. It's okay. We're all here, we're all happy. And, yeah, somebody mentioned at one point, like, oh, what if Mantello got in twice for Salesman and Little Bear Ridge Road? And I just said, that's a wonderful dream. I don't really. I don't have many notes on this. You know, I think Liberation is our front runner for play, and you don't get that without a wonderful director at the helm. And I think Whitney White did a beautiful job. I think Heitner does a great job with his ensemble of actors in Giant. Leon. Same thing with Ballisters. Like these ensemble shows where everyone has to be catching each other. I very much say you three directors do that. Ick for Oedipus. I'm thrilled. That's such a big swing that he took. And I think. I think it hits it out of the park. And then Mantello. This is. When you see Salesman, what I say about the Salesman is that it's the most directory that Mantello has been probably since Assassins. And that's really exciting because it reminds you, like, oh, he is and always has been that bitch. And he will continue to be that bitch. He just hasn't flexed that muscle in a while. But he's like, no, this is what I can do. I can do her. Yeah.
- [63:38]
A
If I must.
- [63:40]
B
If you. Oh, you want me to blow your minds? If I must. Any. Any surprises here for you lot?
- [63:46]
A
I was actually. I was correct real quick.
- [63:49]
C
Dot is about to bark a whole bunch. Give me a sec.
- [63:51]
B
Go for it.
- [63:52]
A
Well, but, yeah, I don't know how, because I haven't seen all of them, but I. I was correct on this
- [63:59]
B
list because, Rachel, your instincts are great. You have amazing instincts.
- [64:04]
A
Wow. Thanks. Thanks, Matt. You're welcome.
- [64:07]
B
Will, anything here in particular that you were happy or surprised by?
- [64:11]
C
I. I would have loved to see Debbie Allen for Joe Turner on here. I really did love Joe Turner. And, like, I also love this list, so I feel good, but I'm also like, oh, but, like, just one more. I want one more in here.
- [64:27]
B
I feel you. I think Debbie Allen is. Because as a creative, the Tonys have never really gone for her, whether she was a director or a choreographer. As a performer, I think she's gotten in three times, maybe just twice, but I don't believe she ever.
- [64:41]
C
Between Charity and the west side. Yeah.
- [64:45]
B
Yeah. So I think it might have just been those two, but. Cause she did Cat in a Hot Tin Roof, and she didn't get in for that. Famously, her choreography for Carrie was not recognized, which, I mean, talk about most choreography
- [65:01]
C
that.
- [65:01]
B
I will always be obsessed with what she does with that opening number. My God. But, yeah, it's.
- [65:08]
A
Yeah.
- [65:08]
B
Just west side Story and Sweet Charity, but, I mean, Debbie Allen is just, like, this phenomenal talent and wonderful presence, but there's something about her as a director that doesn't connect with everyone in the way that her as a performer always does. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think anyone's ever disagreed that Debbie Allen as a performer is like the. And. But as a director, sometimes not everyone is on board with what she does. I wasn't thoroughly in love with what she did with Joe Turner, but I love that play, so. But, you know, that's that high risk, high reward with. With August Wilson, you know? Yeah. I mean, I. I don't know. I'm. This is honestly my favorite thing Kenny Leon's done since. God, probably fences. I don't know. He's.
- [65:54]
A
He's.
- [65:54]
B
Struck out for me a bunch post Covid. And this is the first time. I love Kenny.
- [65:58]
A
There you are.
- [66:00]
C
I loved what he did for Pearly.
- [66:03]
B
Oh, my God, Pearly. I'm so sorry. I take that back. My favorite thing he's done since Pearly. Everyone. I'm sorry. That was awful of me.
- [66:09]
A
That's okay, Matt. You can't be expected to remember everything all the time.
- [66:14]
B
Not all the time. I got red because I forgot that Ruben Santiago Hudson won a Tony for seven guitars in 1996. I openly was like, he has a whole lot.
- [66:23]
A
Who did that to you?
- [66:25]
B
On YouTube on the Discord. And I was like, guys, I. My brain is. Is fried. I'm trying to remember everything off the top of my head. It's very hard.
- [66:36]
A
No, I think this is really solid list.
- [66:39]
B
It is. Can we talk about choreography for a second? And then, Rachel, I'm gonna have you pick the next one choreography. Okay? So I have proof on the Discord channel. When Leah didn't get in on CBS for best actress in a musical, I went, does this bode poorly? For Lauren Lotaro for choreography for Chess. And then when Hannah Cruise got in for featured actress and Bryce Pinkham got in for featured actor, I went, oh, maybe Lauren will get in. But then she didn't. Instead, we have Chris Catelli for Schmigadoon, Eleanor Scott for Ragtime. Ani Taj for Rocky Horror, Omari Wyles and Arturo Lyons for Cats. The Jellicle Ball, and Lauren Yolango Grant and Christopher Cree Grant for the Lost Boys. I hate to say this, but this category kind of rules. I actually really like every one of these nominees because they all are so different from each other.
- [67:33]
A
So different.
- [67:35]
B
I think the only one that I'm a little weak on is anitaj Faraki. Horror because it's not the most exciting choreo. It is very like community theater. But that's also. Again, that's the aesthetic and the vibe of this production. So they did their job. So, like, I'm not begrudging the nomination. I think the nomination makes sense.
- [67:52]
A
Someone told me that they changed the time warp. Is that accurate?
- [67:58]
B
Change it how? Like, don't do the polynese.
- [68:00]
C
No, it's a jump to the right. Yeah, it's like, no, no, it's their left. It's like, oh, okay.
- [68:05]
B
Yeah.
- [68:05]
A
I don't know. I can't remember who told me that. They were like, no, they weren't doing the moves that. That. The time warp. And I was like, why would they do that? But I can't fact check that because we haven't seen it yet. So I'm asking you as somebody who's seen it.
- [68:19]
B
I mean, I don't. I don't. I don't know. I can't remember now.
- [68:23]
A
I feel like if it was different, you would remember. You'd be like, what the hell is this? I don't know. Maybe they were. I don't know. I can't remember if you were the one I was talking to. Show yourself. I don't know.
- [68:32]
B
Reveal yourselves. It's. Reveal yourself.
- [68:36]
C
But.
- [68:37]
B
And I was around, like, I was about. It's chocolate. I was a bunch. I was around a bunch of Rocky Horror people. And no one seems perturbed by it, so I would. I don't think they changed it. I will say it's also a chaotic number. So it's hard to necessarily focus on what exactly the. The vibes are of the. Or what the moves are of the time warp. It's. The choreography is just kind of pure chaos. And again, that's definitely what Pinkleton wants. So the assignment was nailed. The question of. And maybe this is sort of why Pinkleton's not here. Of the question then becomes, well, what's the assignment? But, yeah, Lauren Lotaro's like, really the big surprise, I think, for a lot of people. But that's sort of been her narrative for her last, like, four shows of Tommy and Heart of Rock and Roll. And this where it's like, what? Lauren Lotaro, they're doing flips. They're dance. They're tap dancing on bubble wrap. And. And the nominators keep saying no. So we'll have to wait for the next one, I suppose. Yeah. Any. I mean, again, it doesn't really matter because Jellicoe Ball's winning, but here we are.
- [69:44]
A
I mean, it's. It's a shame because Schmigadoon is doing such great dance work.
- [69:50]
B
It is. Yeah.
- [69:51]
A
But, yeah, it's just one of those things where it's like, you're up against such a force. I just can't imagine Cats not taking it.
- [70:02]
B
Yeah. I mean, if. If there is an upset, I do think it is Schmigadoon. But it's.
- [70:07]
A
Yeah, for sure.
- [70:08]
B
Yeah.
- [70:08]
A
I think it depends on the voting block of, like, the classic musical theater, because it's. It's. It's classic with A capital C, 1,000%.
- [70:20]
B
But, yeah, I mean, I think the nomination here is the win for everyone who is Angelicle Ball. Okay, Rachel, go forth and prosper. What do we have next?
- [70:28]
A
Okay, wait can we talk original music? Because what was going on there? I remember gasping. Best original score.
- [70:37]
B
Yep.
- [70:38]
A
And the first two that they announce are plays.
- [70:42]
B
Mm,
- [70:45]
A
girl.
- [70:46]
B
Yeah, I know. It's been a while since we've had that happen.
- [70:50]
A
It's bleak, babe. I'm like, what are we doing? I mean, I get it, but also. What? Okay, sorry. You run, run, run us through them, Matt.
- [70:59]
B
Okay, Sorry. I have to find it myself now. Our best shit. Our best score.
- [71:04]
C
All right, I got him if we need him.
- [71:05]
B
Yes, please. Will go for it.
- [71:07]
C
Best original score. Death of a Salesman. Caroline Shaw. Joe Turner's Coming. Gone. Steve Barganetti. The Lost Boys, the rescues. Schmigadoon, Cinco Paul. Two strangers carry a cake across New York. Jim Barnes and Kate Buchan. Or Buchan, forgive the pronunciation.
- [71:25]
B
Yes. When Schmingadoon was eligible for score, I wrongfully assumed that that would get Queen of Versailles in there for a score nomination. Because with so few musical options, I figured, oh, they'll really kind of scraped the bottom of the barrel with plays to get in there for score. And then was like, oh, well, no, they'll. They'll give a score nomination to Stephen Schwartz. It's gonna be his last chance. And I think that that cast recording coming out revealed that that score is not terrible. It's not. It doesn't fully work, but it's not terrible. Worse scores than Queen of Versailles have been nominated.
- [72:00]
A
Yes.
- [72:00]
B
I'll put it that way. And so I knew Salesman was gonna get in, but I figured that was gonna be the lone play. I did not expect two plays at this point, so that was definitely a shocker for me.
- [72:11]
A
I'm shocked.
- [72:13]
B
Shooketh.
- [72:14]
A
Yeah, I'm sure.
- [72:15]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I did not have Joe Turner's coming on on my bingo card, and no one did really, that.
- [72:20]
A
I literally was like, what score? I saw it.
- [72:25]
C
All of the transition music that is played. And I. And I'm As a blues guitar nerd.
- [72:31]
A
And you did say that when you were in the theater.
- [72:33]
B
Great.
- [72:33]
A
Yes.
- [72:34]
C
Yeah, you did say that really sounds like. And it sounds. I would've sworn that it was existing blues music, but the fact that it's original music is crazy. They nailed the tonality of early 20th century blues that isn't necessarily delta blues.
- [72:57]
B
Yeah, I will. You just justified their nomination.
- [73:03]
A
Yeah. Thank God you're here because.
- [73:07]
B
Thank God we have you here to explain black music to us because otherwise, Ryan Gosling's busy, so I don't we need someone else.
- [73:15]
C
I'll explain. I'll explain Jazz next. I Just need to rewatch La La Land so I can hear it from an expert.
- [73:21]
B
And then we're going to shoot you into space.
- [73:22]
A
You like jazz?
- [73:24]
B
I like jazz. No, I listen. You look at it. Hindsight's 20 20. So you look at this and Will explains very eloquently and beautifully. Sort of what's going on with Barganetti's score for Joe Turner makes sense. I think anyone who saw a salesman and saw sort of how bleak the score lineup was, we all were kind of like, that's going to get in there. A few people thought maybe Proof would get in for score. I'm on record as hoping Marjorie prime would have gotten in, but I also said that knowing it wasn't going to happen, I was being a silly little bitch. I mean, it's. The truth is that I don't know what to tell you here. It's not just the nominees. I don't know what to tell you in terms of a winner here because
- [74:05]
A
while I'm shocked that Schmega Nuna is eligible.
- [74:08]
B
Same.
- [74:09]
A
Yeah, I think that's.
- [74:10]
C
I love the score, but I mean,
- [74:12]
A
not that I don't like the music. I'm just sort of like, it's just. It's just not fair to everybody. I don't know. I don't know.
- [74:18]
B
It's what, you know, what it's giving. It's giving when state fair was eligible for score and they're like, well, there are four new songs.
- [74:25]
C
I'm like, great example.
- [74:27]
A
Be so for real right now. I don't know what we saw original score and yeah, when we saw Two Strangers. I mean, I remember even on the subway home, I was like, they could take it. I was like, I liked all those songs. I liked. I liked the lyrics. I like. I like. I had a really good time with that music. And then I was even in that point thinking, like, what. What the hell is coming that's gonna, you know, Like, I don't know. I don't know.
- [74:54]
B
But yeah, I think that Two Strangers has the best lyrics of this bunch for sure. And Lost Boys has like a really impressive sound about it and makes some big old swings. The thing about Schmingadoon is so single. Paul made infamously, like, tweeted or something about how, like, there are 11 new songs in Schmincadoon. And the truth is that it's. That a lot of those songs pre existed in the show. They just have new lyrics. Like Mackenzie Kurtz's song is the song from the show. But it's all New lyrics, as far as I'm aware of. So that's what that is. But it's. I. I think if it weren't so bleak, they would not have made Schmigadoon eligible. It's just one of those things where, like, we need another. Yeah, we need another person in here
- [75:36]
A
because we're not going to want to say bleak as though the. The ones that are nominated, like, it's like consolation prizes. Like, I don't feel that way whatsoever. It's just like, I want a real competition. I want, like, I want five musicals to be in the best original score category. I don't like when plays are nominated. Me upset. I'm upset no matter how scoring is there.
- [76:00]
B
There are. There are times when a best score nomination comes for a play that I am all in on, but it's very specific. Janine Tesori getting nominated for Twelfth Night Rules. Stereophonics best score nomination rules. But it's one of those things where, like, it has to step up to the plate and overtake a contender who's a musical, like, a genuine contender. And for me, that is like Stereophonic getting in over Water for Elephants. For me, I'm like, that's awesome. Because Water for Elephants is, like, a genuine score contender. And it's like, no, no, no. These songs in Stereophonic are so good and so integral to the success of the show that we have to. And this is sort of. Yeah, as you said, it sort of feels like constellation slots for some of these. Not because, like, they're not solid work, but just because it's very much like there just isn't enough. It. It doesn't feel like you docked into port on the Queen Elizabeth 2. It feels like you are a survivor on the Titanic. It's like, well, we're the ones who are left. And it's. And it's just the truth, you know, it's. It's been a. It's been a thin year on the new musical front, especially new musical score front. So that's just a fact.
- [77:09]
A
Well, would you like to talk about the instruments in Lost Boys?
- [77:13]
C
Oh, I thought this is. I don't know if this is, like, props or what, exactly. I really liked the use of onstage instruments in Lost Boys for the sense that it makes sense for 80s guitars. And, like, one of the instruments they have is a Gibson Firebird, which is the one that kind of looks like a parallelogram. And it was suddenly popular in the late 70s and early 80s because they were cheap. They were like a failed guitar from the 50s, so nobody wanted them. Metal bands and heavy bands really started picking them up for the cost and because they look cool. And that's when guitars started to get really pointy. But while you would think really like pointy angular guitars for the 80s makes sense. They're also playing to now where we don't like instruments that are as pointy. So it's successfully walking the 80s hard rock scene. And now. I thought that was cool.
- [78:23]
B
Yeah, I mean, that ties us into as well, by the way. Sound design of a musical and orchestrations. Sound design of a musical. Kai Harada. Cat's Jellicoe Ball. Kai Harada for Ragtime. Adam Fisher for Lost Boys. So that helps in there as well. Brian Ronin for Rocky Horror and Walter Trback for Schmingadoon. I would say Schmigadoon and Rocky Horror. I didn't have on my bingo card, but also I didn't not. It's sort of. It's interesting that two strangers isn't in here. I thought maybe that was a easy slap for them to get into. Basically, as long as Lost Boys and Angelica Ball were in here, I was happy with Lost Boys, like clearly being their front runner. And then orchestrations. Orchestrations is one of my favorite categories that people do not nerd out enough on.
- [79:08]
A
And you're talking to the right man.
- [79:12]
B
I did. I will say I'm. I'm such. I sound like such a queen of her side defender. I'm not. I'm more sort of like. That show is not the garbage fire people say it was. It just wasn't good. Yes, there's a dip.
- [79:23]
A
There's a difference. And it. And it. And if it had opened in the spring with everything else, we'd be having a very different conversation right now.
- [79:30]
B
Yeah, that's something that people were writing in. In the discord of like. They also just hadn't. Did not do any campaigning at all. So it. People didn't feel the need to remember it because they weren't getting, you know, reminded about it. But I did think that Clancy's not us. Orchestrations for Queen of Versailles are great. I'm obsessed with the little flute worlds and caviar dreams. But we have Doug Besterman and Mike Morris for Shuba Gadoon. Oh, boy. Ethan Pop kyler, England. Adrian A.G. gonzalez and Gabriel Mann for the Lost Boys. Lux Pyramid for Two Strangers. Carrie.
- [80:03]
A
Great name.
- [80:04]
B
Lux Pyramid. I know it sounds like a great name.
- [80:06]
A
It's a crazy name.
- [80:08]
B
Brian Youssefer for chess. And then Andrew Lloyd Webber, David Wilson, Trevor Holder Doug Schat. What a terrible last name for Castellico Ball.
- [80:16]
A
It's a duality of man. We have Lux Pyramid.
- [80:19]
B
Yeah. I mean, so here we have three, three of the best score contenders. So that. Which tends to happen. We have Chess, which is not a score contender, not a best revival contender, but is a recalibration of a score that people know very well. And Angelica Ball, which absolutely takes a score we all know and turns it on its head. Ragtime. Not eligible. They famously are using the original orchestrations. I think they might have like four or five fewer pieces. So like technically speaking, a reduced chart. But there's no reinvention of the wheel here. People that are out. No Rocky Horror, no tween of Versailles. No beaches.
- [80:59]
A
No beaches anywhere, by the way.
- [81:01]
B
Yes. Well, yes, we mentioned the Vosque, but yes, no beaches anywhere. Beaches completely shut out. Has anyone, anyone got a handle on Playbill or Instagram? Have we gotten any announcements from them in the last like 10 minutes?
- [81:14]
A
You keep talking, I'll look.
- [81:16]
B
Yeah, okay. Will talk to me about these orchestration nominations. What are we thinking? What are we feeling?
- [81:23]
C
One of my all time favorite orchestrators, Doug Besterman, I'm always excited to hear what he does. I mean, if I'm going top five orchestrations of all time, his work on the Producers might be like, could be my number two. Like that's.
- [81:39]
B
It's.
- [81:39]
C
His stuff is so good. And like in the Producers with Schmigadoon, along with Mike Morris, he gets to celebrate musical theater in this really rich way and he's given enough room to really play. I think what he does on Schmigadoon, what the two of them. I'm sorry, I keep treating it like it's one person. What the two of them do on Schmigadoon is really rewarding to someone that celebrates the orchestration category. That's like.
- [82:12]
B
Yeah. And I'm also, I am always impressed with. Because obviously with budget constraints and inflation, orchestras are the first thing to get cut down to Nethernes and Broadway. So when you have an orchestra that's like under 20, I think in this one it's maybe 15 pieces. 14 pieces.
- [82:31]
C
Sounds right.
- [82:32]
B
Yeah. It's not fully a small band, but it's not a super large orchestra. They, they have made it sound quite rich, which is impressive. I feel the same way about Jellicoe Ball. Like Jellicoe Ball I think is 10 or 11 pieces and fully sounds like twice the size. So I'm, I'm a big fan of both of those nominations. I Think Lost Boys. Also really good orchestrations on that. I'm sure there, there are going to be older nominators who are not thrilled with like the loudness of it. But that's, that's, it's an, that's. It's an 80s. I've seen like a musical.
- [83:03]
C
Yeah, yeah, that's a 14. 14 piece band. I'm not sure why that number stuck with me, but a lot of strings in Lost Boys.
- [83:11]
B
I'm thrilled about that. And then, yeah. Lux Pyramid for Two Strangers. I think that kind of reinforces that. I would say Two Strangers and Lost Boys are probably the front runners for score and them getting in for orchestrations here kind of reinforces that for me. And. Yeah, but also, I don't know, saying that I don't necessarily think that they are the front runners for orchestrations here either. Like, sometimes the Tonys go weird and they give it to a recalibrated orchestration of a. Of music we've already previously heard. In fact, infamously. Will, last season you were very big on Buena Vista Social Club on orchestrations and sound design of a musical. And. And they won both of those. You remember? Do I remember? Because when they won both of those things, I remember thinking I should text Will right now because he said on mic, like, the work they're doing on that. I was like, yeah, it's good. But like, come on, it's probably going to be like sunset, right? And Will was like, I don't know. And then it happened.
- [84:15]
C
And I will continue to say I don't know, but I am passionate about what I like.
- [84:21]
A
Yeah, well, and you're so, you're so well versed in the music, the interest, the intricacies of the music. End of musical theater, so.
- [84:32]
C
Sure. Gee, thank you.
- [84:33]
A
I would say, you know, ball is how I would describe it.
- [84:36]
C
You can't say that around her. She's already.
- [84:38]
A
No dot. Don't.
- [84:40]
C
No ball.
- [84:41]
B
Okay.
- [84:42]
C
I know.
- [84:42]
B
Bal, let's get some to some bloodshed categories now. We have. We've done all this. I think we've done all the tech. We've done lighting, set, costumes. No, we didn't do costumes.
- [84:53]
A
We have not talked costumes yet.
- [84:55]
B
Let's talk costumes in a second because I want to get to some blood shed categories, primarily featured. So, Rachel, featured actor, actress, play, musical. What's our direction? Where are we going on me?
- [85:10]
A
Let's talk featured actress in a musical.
- [85:13]
B
Love it. Okay, read off our nominees, please.
- [85:18]
A
I'm finding it. I was put on the spot, you know what I mean?
- [85:23]
B
Sorry.
- [85:23]
C
I have it if we want.
- [85:25]
A
Yeah, go for it, Will.
- [85:26]
C
Best featured actress in a musical. We have Shoshana Bean in the Lost Boys. We have Hannah Cruz in Chess. We have Rachel Dratch in the Rocky Horror Show. Richard o' Brien's the Rocky Horror Show. The Times missed the name. Anna Gasteyer in Schmigadoon. Nichelle Lewis in Ragtime.
- [85:44]
B
So I'm gonna start off for a second and just say, while there are no immediate surprises here. Cause everyone listed was mentioned at some point as a possibility. Possibility. This was also a category where there were, like, 10 possibilities. So it's more. Yeah, so it's more of like, oh, okay, so they did get in over. So. And so I. I am on record as saying that I really wanted Rachel Trash to get in for Rocky Horror. I think that she absolutely holds that show together. I have also been on record as saying that I didn't think it was going to happen, but I really wanted Hannah Cruz to get in for Chess. She's my favorite performance in that show. When she did, I screamed bloody murder. I. I wrongfully assumed that MacKenzie Kurtz was gonna get in alongside on a gas tire.
- [86:34]
A
Cause I thought I had that as well.
- [86:36]
B
Yeah. And I also had Temperis Chastity more for Jellicoe Ball, while also acknowledging that the word I had had on her was that a lot of people were underwhelmed by how she sang Memory. I was a little underwhelmed by how she sang Memory, but I overall found her performance very effective. But because that role kind of does boil down to the song for a lot of people, they go. I can't get past the fact that it's like 10% not where I want it to be vocally. And while I've heard similar qualms with Nichelle Lewis and Ragtime, that's more on a presence front and not on a vocal front. No one has any complaints about how Nichelle sings the role. It's more of when she shares the stage with Josh. He kind of overwhelms her. Which, you know, could also now translate into maybe she doesn't win. We'll get to that on a later day. Uh, but that, I think, ultimately, because she does handle the music so well. And this production of Ragtime is very like, let's make sure the music is good. At the very least, she does nail that. Um, for you lot, biggest surprise inclusion, biggest surprise omission.
- [87:44]
A
Um, I was thrilled to see Rachel and Anna both nominated. I said, snl, girlies, we are up our Stock is up, up.
- [87:55]
B
We are fed.
- [87:56]
A
Yeah, a hundred percent. I had Anna from the jump. I think I even I, I had written down, like, she's my prediction to, to take it just in general. I mean, anything can happen between now and then. But I, I On my list, my, like my dark horse in the race. I was kind of hoping for a Nina White, Queen of Versailles sneak in. I thought that would have been not only appropriate, but it would have been a nice representation from that show because I thought she gave an outstanding performance in that role. But not to take away from anybody in the category. I think it all makes perfect sense to me now that I'm seeing it laid out. And again, we haven't seen Chess yet, so that's tough.
- [88:45]
B
But everything I heard, Lana, she plays Svetlana. Yeah. She shows up in Act 2, at the top of Act 2, and you go, oh, a woman has entered. Like, it's just. Oh, God, I'm a fan of hers.
- [88:58]
A
You had mentioned that one of her songs and other versions of Chess, Someone
- [89:04]
C
Else's Story is now Someone Else's Solo.
- [89:07]
B
Yes.
- [89:11]
C
Someone who is not given a combination today.
- [89:16]
B
Exactly. It's now called Someone Else's Solo. Someone Else's Solo.
- [89:22]
A
We were writing Forbidden Broadway. Yep.
- [89:24]
B
Gerard, baby, hit me up. I. I'm actually really good at writing parody lyrics. I had some really good ones on my live show on.
- [89:31]
A
Well, do I have a best musical nominee for you?
- [89:37]
B
The. So, yeah. So Someone Else's Story was originally written for Florence. It was put in the place of Where Nobody's side currently sits. And they moved Nobody's side to the end of Act 1, originally. Then when they revamped the show post 1988, they put nobody's side back where it's always been. And they moved Someone Else's story to Act 2, tweaked it a little bit and gave it to Svetlana, where it has basically sat for the last 35 years. And this production was like, okay, we're gonna give it back to Florence and we're gonna move it to the end of Act 2. So it's like, one step makes sense, one step does not. But even without Someone Else's Story, Hannah Cruise manages to make a goddamn impression. That's cool. She's that girl. Yeah. Will, what about you? What's lovely? Surprise. In a shocking omish.
- [90:29]
C
I'm so happy to see Anna Gasteyer for Schmega Dune. I was. My concern with Shmigadun was that with. Oh, my gosh, the pardon, I've lost The names with Mackenzie Kurtz and Isabel McHale. Is it Mikael? Thank you.
- [90:53]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [90:54]
C
I was like, I'm remembering the shows that I've seen.
- [90:56]
A
Oh, so good to see you.
- [90:59]
C
Yeah.
- [90:59]
A
This is tough. This is a tough category.
- [91:02]
C
But because act one is very Mackenzie Kurtz, and then act two is very Isabel McCalla. And I was worried that that combination plus Anna Gasteyer, who has the big song at the end of Act 2, I was like, are these categories gonna kind of pick away at each other? And I'm happy to see. To see. I'm happy to see Schmigadoon represented there at all. I'm very happy that it's on a gastire, But I'm sad to see.
- [91:34]
B
Yeah, yeah. I'm sad that mackenzie isn't in there. I. I made peace that Izzy was not going to get nominated. I think she is. She's personally giving my favorite of the featured actress performances, and I'm a big Izzy Stan. I've been a Stan of her since the prom. But I also have maintained that, like, she does exceptional work with roles that are not up to her talent level. Like, I think that water for elephants is an immensely underwritten role that she turned into gold the prom. You know, Alyssa Green is a very small role that she turned into gold. And then I actually think she has good material for Schmiga doone. But what she's doing isn't as, like, bold as what Mackenzie and Anna are doing. And so I can understand why nominators maybe don't recognize the skill level of what she's doing, which is that's not a digging nominators like that. This happens all the time. And we'll talk about this with featured actor as well. But I just. Watching her, I was like, she's giving my favorite performance here, and it's not gonna get recognized, which is why I put her in my honey category.
- [92:35]
A
Yeah. I think if she had something to do in the first act and if mackenzie had something to do in the second act, this would be a totally different conversation. But it just is what it is.
- [92:45]
B
It is what it is. I'm confident that MacKenzie and Izzy will have their day in the sun soon. I think this show has been a nice level up for both of them. And the fact. And I think Anna has a good shot in this category because if Schmigadoon ends up being a real formidable best musical contender, that's very helpful for Ana. If it ends up being lost boys, that's really good for Shoshana, who I've. I've always maintained she was gonna get in here. I said on Mike two days ago, like, if LJ got in for lead actor, then I was just gonna be like, well, Shoshana's winning now because clearly Lost Boys has registered so well for them. Him not. Is not a surprise to me, but it does make me go, okay, Shoshana went for me, like, 100%. Certain to me to, like, 75%, but also, like, I. I probably would take out Michelle and put in Izzy Michaela if I'm being, like, very honest to my personal tastes. Otherwise, like. Because otherwise this is a really good lineup. I mean, I'm. Maybe I would have. I don't want to take out Anna because I like her. And Schmiga Doom. If you were to say, Matthew, you need to put in someone from either Titanique or Queen of Versailles. I would probably take out Ana and put in Nina White or Melissa Barrera, who, similarly to Izzy and Schmigit Doon has a very tricky role that does not often get the chance to be like the bold, funny one. But I think what she does with Rose is really strong and she sounds good and she also looks stunning. But that's not what the role. What the.
- [94:08]
A
Neither here nor there is.
- [94:10]
B
Yes. Yeah. Okay.
- [94:12]
C
Speaking of, we've got two Elphabas with Shoshana Bean and Ana Gasteyer.
- [94:17]
B
Yes, yes, yes, we do. We have two former Alpha bless featured actor in a musical. We have Ali Louis. How do you say his last name? Borsky.
- [94:30]
C
If I were to guess Borski, but
- [94:32]
B
I'm not sure I'm going to say Ali Louis Borski for Lost Boys. Andre DeShields for cast. The Jellicoe Ball. Bryce Pinkham for Chess. Ben Lee by Ross for Ragtime. Leighton Williams for Titanique. I have my. Oh, that did happen. And fuck, yeah, that happened.
- [94:47]
A
Please.
- [94:49]
B
My. Oh, that happened. Is Bryce Pinkham for Chess?
- [94:51]
A
Sure.
- [94:51]
B
Which listen, there's a specific discorder. Who's listening to this going like, Matthew, I told you, Matthew, I told you. He was wrong about some other things, but he was right about this.
- [95:00]
A
Hey, and flowers for them.
- [95:03]
B
Yes. Here's your flowers. I'm going to be very cunty for a second and say, I truly think the reason why Bryce is in here is because he's talented and well liked and professional and respected. And nominators saw him and went, bryce, I'm so sorry for what they're making you do. Here's your nomination. You need you. You are surviving what they are making you Do. Here you go.
- [95:23]
A
Nurse.
- [95:25]
B
Nurse. I love the man. I love the man. And he sounds great. He. He pisses all over the Arbiter song. But what? They make him twerk, they give him the stupidest jokes, and he walks out with his head held high. And I go, you, sir? Yes. Like Purple Heart. Purple Heart. He also does close out the. He also closes out the show. I know vicious. I'm vicious, but so I'm not upset he's in here, but I was sort of like, oh. And then my postmortem, I'm like, oh, I guess that's why my Fuck. Yeah, that happened. Is Leighton Williams for Titanique. I threw my pen and I went, we did it, Joe. I'm so happy. I'm so happy.
- [96:04]
A
Same but different. Yep. No, a hundred percent. That's. I think it's so deserved. So deserved. It's.
- [96:13]
B
Talk to me. What. What. What are we thinking for you two with this category?
- [96:17]
A
Um, I think. Yeah, I think I pretty much had this list except for in the Titanique slot, I did put Jim Parsons just for the Jim Parsons of it all, but I wanted my heart of hearts. I wanted Leighton Williams. So that was a good feeling and go with your gut kind of thing. Just be loud and wrong instead of doing what you think other people are gonna do. Yeah. I'm glad to see
- [96:55]
B
the.
- [96:56]
A
The. The lost boy. How did. How do we say his name? It's Ali. Ali Louie.
- [97:02]
B
Ali Louis. Ali Louie Borski. Which is probably wrong. I will. When he possibly wins on June 8th or 7th or June 7th, I will make sure that I say it correctly because he's very talented and he's incredible.
- [97:18]
A
We saw him off Broadway last season, and we live in Cairo and, like, blew my mind. I think he so talented, and his voice is so gorgeous, and I just think I left the theater going, michael, Michael, you do it well.
- [97:40]
C
You do it too, Michael. I have the rest of my line that I need to say to you, and it's like, I don't know. It was fun. It was fun to walk around.
- [97:50]
A
He's a vampire. He has time.
- [97:52]
C
He's got time.
- [97:53]
B
He's got time.
- [97:54]
A
Yeah.
- [97:55]
B
It's so easy to go over the top and kitschy with a role like that. And I think he has one foot in both worlds of. He's absolutely queening out while also not going overboard. You know what I mean?
- [98:12]
C
He's tormented, but enjoying it.
- [98:14]
B
Yeah, he's absolutely got demons, but he's dancing with them. That's how I would describe what Ali's doing with the role of. Of David. He's just like. He's like, yeah, I've got baggage, but it's Louis Vuitton. It's like, it's so. It's. It. It. He's. He's being an absolute. In the best way. And that is. I was very, very impressed with what he did. Yeah. Someone text me, like, oh, like, Ben Levi Ross got in there. I was like, yeah, he got in there. He was like. He and Andre were the only two that I was, like, putting money down on of, like, they're absolutely going to be in here. Yeah. There are a few folks that I was sad to see.
- [98:52]
A
He knows how to blow stuff up.
- [98:54]
B
Oh, he's got. He knows how to blow stuff up. It's true. I was. I was a little disappointed that we couldn't get Junior labeija in here for Jellicle Ball.
- [99:01]
A
Yeah.
- [99:02]
B
Cindy James Harcourt for Jellicle Ball. But ultimately, you know, no musical has multiple nominees, so if we're spreading the wealth like, it's. It is going to be Andre only
- [99:12]
A
Ragtime for leading man actor.
- [99:15]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, that's the truth. Yeah. No, I was just even talking feature, but yeah, like, no. No musical other than Ragtime for actor has multiple nominees. I am in. In one category. I don't even think in the plays. Oh, no. Fallen Angels. We have two and Fallen Angels for one category, but I think that's it. Yeah. Any other omissions in featured actor that we want people we want to pay homage to? Who didn't get in here?
- [99:40]
A
Did I have. I think. I think that's what I had written down. Oh, Max Clayton and Schmigadoon.
- [99:49]
B
Yeah.
- [99:50]
A
I thought he was giving a really charming performance. I really enjoyed him.
- [99:55]
B
He's very good. I think that was another One similar to MacKenzie of once act two happens, he doesn't have as much. He dies. He dies.
- [100:02]
A
Well. And then my favorite. My favorite part of Schmegadoon as a whole is when he comes down from the ceiling as a little baby angel with the.
- [100:12]
C
Like, you love somebody entering in a funny way with the pipe clean.
- [100:16]
A
I love. Well, well, because everybody's on stage at that point. And I was like, oh, man, they're not gonna bring Max Clayton back. And then as I had that thought, he descended from the ceiling. I was like, let's go.
- [100:27]
B
This is quite a few shows this season bringing the dead back for the finale. You know, this Lost Boys ragtime Ty technique.
- [100:37]
A
What are you gonna do? You know?
- [100:38]
B
Yeah. If Beaches wanted to Keep to get better reviews. They should have had Kelly chest. They should have had Kelly Barrett come on for Wind Beneath My Wings and start duetting with Vosk. Then they would have gotten better reviews.
- [100:48]
A
It might have been more interesting.
- [100:50]
B
Yeah. And they would brought her out in the gown so she doesn't have to bow in her hospice outfit. You know, it's just things to think about. Give Kelly Barrett some grace. We're making. If we're making Bryce Pinkham. Tweak, twerk, twerk, tweet. He's tweaking while he's twerking. I thought she gave him out in a Givenchy gown.
- [101:06]
A
I thought she gave a great performance.
- [101:09]
B
She works very hard in a role that does not help her at all.
- [101:11]
A
Beaches was tough. Anyway.
- [101:15]
B
Yeah, so we said. Anyway, we said Max Parsons. Yeah, I know. Connor McDowell. I'm sorry, baby, but Constantine Rasooli did not end up getting in today, but he got in for books, so that's nice. Yeah, for his brain. Yes, for his brain, not for his ass. I'm sure he would love to have gotten recognized for both, but what can you do? Yeah, I think this is a. This is a lineup that makes sense to me. I'm. I'm still kind of trying to make peace with Bryce Pinkham's domination. Not because of Bryce, but because of what they make him do. So I'm viewing it as Bryce objectively is good in a show that is trying to destroy him. And he doesn't get destroyed.
- [102:03]
C
He.
- [102:04]
B
He. He not only survives, he thrives. And for that, we say, you know what you are. It's as if, like when Meryl Streep makes her Sophie's choice and her daughter doesn't end up dying at the end of the movie. It's like, that's Bryce Pinkham. It's like, oh, they. They took you away from Meryl's arms, and yet you made it to the end of the film. Here's your Tony. So that's what I'm gonna say.
- [102:25]
C
Sophie's chess.
- [102:26]
B
Sophie. Sophie, you. I gave you the worst analogy ever, and you still were able to come up with a really good joke. You're so mad. This is the genius of both of you. But he does all day, all day long. Let's go into costume before we get into featured actress, and then we'll get into the rest of this stoof. Okay? Costume, resign. We have a player play and musical. We'll do back to back. Brenda Abandonedolo for Dog Day Afternoon. Queen Jean for Liberation. Jeff Mashi for Fallen Angels. Emilio Sosa for the Ballisters, Paul Tazewell for Joe Turner's Come and Gone. Then for musical, we have Linda Cho for Ragtime, Linda Cho for Schmuckadoon, Queen Jean for Cast, the Jellicle Ball, Ryan park for the Lost Boys, and David Reynoso for Rocky Horror Show.
- [103:26]
A
Uh, let's.
- [103:27]
B
I'll say up front, Emilio Soso for Ballisters. Surprised? Not unhappy, but surprised.
- [103:34]
A
I said the same thing because it's so rare that contemporary costumes get any sort of recognition whatsoever.
- [103:45]
B
Yep.
- [103:45]
A
And I was saying this sort of in our live earlier of, like, I have worked in the neighborhood that that show takes place for a very long time, and I know that neighborhood quite well, and that is how those people dress. Like, it's like. It's so accurate outside of the fact that, you know, it's being recognized at all.
- [104:07]
C
Hyper specific.
- [104:08]
A
Yeah, hyper specific. I was like, like, even down to, like, some of the. Like, I was like, I know where you shopped to get that outfit.
- [104:16]
C
Okay, you mentioned, like, everyone's bags, right?
- [104:19]
A
Yes, the bags. All of it. All of it. Yeah. All the little details of, like. Yep. This is how people in that neighborhood in Brooklyn dress.
- [104:28]
B
Yeah.
- [104:28]
A
100% in such an awesome. And they're going into the restaurant that I wait tables at afterwards to have dinner. Do you know what I mean? It's like.
- [104:36]
B
Yeah, it's. It's. I think this is such an awesome nomination again. I wasn't expecting it, but I think it's so awesome. I. I'm thrilled that we are slowly but surely edging into more contemporary costume designs for nominations. You know, we had Hell's Kitchen, and I mean, maybe happy ending doesn't really count, but sort of does at the same time. You know, it's not like, while it's futuristic, it's not like, super futuristic design. So seeing the novel future. Yeah.
- [105:04]
A
The maybe happy ending costume design reminded me of, like, when you're starting the Sims and you prick, like, randomized. There was, like, an element of that maybe not as crazy, but I was just sort of like. I was like, oh, I've seen these outfits before, but they were on the Sims.
- [105:18]
B
Exactly. Just. Just because it's post 19, you know, 70, doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile design or like. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. Because otherwise it is mostly period. Dog Day Afternoon and liberation are the 70s.
- [105:34]
C
Yeah.
- [105:35]
B
Queen Jean's costumes for Liberation are great. We were talking about this with Juan Ramirez, both Liberation and the Ballisters. For me here, they. What makes them so fantastic is that they don't feel like costumes. They feel like clothing. But. And, and to do that and not draw attention to it or like make a show of it, I think is exceptional, nuanced work and I'm glad that it was recognized. And then Paul Tazwell, we love him. I'm not the biggest fan of the design of Joe Turner, but those costumes, I think do nail the era pretty well and also have a specific voice for each character, which is helpful. And then fallen angels. I mean, if only we could all look like Kelly o' Hara and Rose Byrne when we're horny and drunk. You know, I do.
- [106:23]
A
In my head,
- [106:26]
B
there's. There's who I think I look like when I'm drunk and horny, and then there's what the rest of the world sees.
- [106:31]
C
Expectation versus.
- [106:33]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything here in costume for a play that we're like, other than, you know, liberation and bouncers that were super hopped up on or want to. To make a note of.
- [106:43]
A
I thought the Dog Day costumes were great. Yeah, I love a man in high waisted pants.
- [106:50]
B
I. I do love a man in high waisted pants. I really liked Jessica Hecht's outfit. I thought that was prime.
- [106:57]
A
Yeah, I thought. I thought I'd actually seen people coming out of Dog Day talking specifically about the costumes and the costume design and like, liking seeing. Oh, my God, what's the lead actor's name who I love so much?
- [107:12]
C
Jon Bernthal.
- [107:13]
A
Yes. Yeah, sorry, it's like I was gonna say his, like, character name. Sonny. No, it's not even. Right.
- [107:21]
C
Sonny all the way Sunny.
- [107:23]
A
All the way about, like, seeing him in those pants, which is normally your job, Matt. Normally you're the one to point out a man in great pants.
- [107:34]
B
I don't know what you're referring to. Like I'm some horny little monster who only sees men below the waist.
- [107:40]
A
Playback the clip of us talking about Camelot. Why don't you insert the clip? Clip it.
- [107:46]
B
Stop. You stop. You. And you're. You're. You are trying to ruin me.
- [107:51]
A
I'm never gonna be invited back.
- [107:53]
B
Never. Listen, Andrew Burnab is safe in his home. He doesn't have to worry about me. It's okay.
- [108:00]
A
Like,
- [108:03]
B
I. I always feel like people like, do. Do these actors know how you feel about them? I'm like, it doesn't matter. I'm never gonna actually talk to them. I don't care. I just. I wanna see them perform and I wanna see them in their tight pants. That's all I care about.
- [108:13]
A
Hey, you gotta get it.
- [108:15]
B
I don't think. Yes, and I don't think well. No, that I lied. We do have some tight pants coming up in our next one, which is costume design of a musical. As I said, Ragtime, Schmingadoon, Jellicoe Ball, Lost Boys, Rocky Horror. There is some male objectification going on in this category, and I am here for all of it.
- [108:31]
A
And that's just feminism.
- [108:33]
B
That is feminism. Yeah, I learned about that.
- [108:36]
A
We're finally getting there.
- [108:37]
B
Tell me about that equilibrium slowly happening.
- [108:40]
A
As your resident woman, I think we should all be objectified equally.
- [108:46]
B
No, you're my token woman. Rachel, come on.
- [108:49]
A
Not token. Oh, my God. What happens to your life?
- [108:54]
B
I. I don't know. I don't want to think about my life right now. Okay. Here. Honestly, no surprises here for me either. I. There was a time we were talking about this on Sunday of, like, could Queen of Versailles get in there before all of the, you know, French garbs and. And. And Kristen's gowns? There. There was the elephant in the room of, you know, William Ivy Long unofficially being on that ticket, even though he wasn't listed in the playbill. But we all know. Yeah.
- [109:21]
A
What the hell? I don't know. Go on. I'm sorry.
- [109:24]
C
I thought he was credited for it.
- [109:26]
A
I don't believe so.
- [109:27]
B
Christian Cowan, I think, is credited solely. But it's one of those things where it's like, we all knew. And in fact, like I said this before, when I was at Sherry's first performance, William Ivy Long was in the lobby talking to the production team. I'm like, yeah, no, it's. You guys are not helping matters. You. You're very much making it clear that he worked on this, but that said, he did not get in or they did not get in. And it's okay, because I do. Like, I think if anybody took that slot, it was Lost Boys. But I'm not mad about Lost Boys's nomination. I think they dress okay. Here's where I'm gonna be, who Rachel says I am, the way they dress Ali. I'm like, yes, yes, yes. Here we go. That's. That's. They. They do it. They. They dress him for me. Yeah, yeah.
- [110:11]
A
And then they flip them around the ceiling.
- [110:13]
B
Yeah. I would maybe ding for them for the rainbow flag superheroes in Act 2,
- [110:20]
A
but, you know, did that stay in?
- [110:22]
B
It stayed in.
- [110:24]
A
Did they add the song that gives it context in the first act, or is that still gone?
- [110:30]
B
There was song in Act 1 that had context to that.
- [110:33]
A
Yeah.
- [110:34]
B
Oh, yeah. Ben Pajak, as far as I'm aware, didn't have a song in Act 1 outside of the opening number, from what I recall. It's just that he likes comic books, and so.
- [110:45]
A
Yeah. Yep, Yep. Okay. Okay. Got it noted. Heard it's fine. Moving on.
- [110:52]
C
We got to have some Comic Con outfits from. Boop. That's cool.
- [110:56]
A
All right, bye.
- [110:57]
B
Thank you. Bye.
- [110:58]
A
Enjoy the rest.
- [110:59]
B
It's been a great day, everybody. Thank you so much. The. The. I mean, again, it's all for. Not because Queen Jean is winning for Jellicoe Ball. There's no way. They're not that. Those costumes decorate that show in a way that are just exceptional. I think Linda Cho's costumes for Schmingadoon are actually really lovely. I know some people don't love the costumes for that. I do. I think they're. They nail.
- [111:22]
A
It's time to love. Like, what? What did they want? I don't. What did they want to see?
- [111:27]
B
What do you want? What are you waiting for? That's my Jennifer left Hewitt. What are you waiting for?
- [111:31]
A
More like, what. What. What the hell are we talking?
- [111:34]
B
I don't know. I don't know what they want. What they expected, I think in the comments.
- [111:38]
A
What did you want?
- [111:39]
B
Yeah. In the Discord channel or on YouTube. Tell us, what did you want from those costumes for Schmigadoon? Because I think Linda Cho gave it to them.
- [111:45]
A
They nailed it. Linda Cho is so great.
- [111:48]
B
And the only reason I would maybe say she could win is because Linda Cho tends to win. Like, Linda Cho comes to Robbie. She goes, all I do is win, win, win.
- [111:57]
A
Great Gatsby's one Tony win is.
- [112:00]
B
Is Linda Cho and then also Gentleman's Guide nominated for Anastasia but did not win for that. So I do think that she. Well, she. While she. I think she is the only potential upset to Jellicoe Ball, I'm ultimately sticking with my Jellicoe ball. Yeah. Like, there's no one else here that I would swap out of here. Really?
- [112:19]
A
Yeah.
- [112:19]
B
My. My. My Queen of Versailles prediction was more sort of. That wasn't what I wanted. That was, like, my cynical edge. So I'm not mad Lost Boys is in here. I mean, Queen of Versailles boys go.
- [112:31]
A
Queen of Versailles would have been cool in the sense of it being a more contemporary costume nomination.
- [112:37]
B
Yeah. And then, Will, you were gonna say,
- [112:40]
C
I like that Lost Boys could, you know, go down the route of, you know, the Final Fantasy trap, where it's like, look at all these zippers and, like, crazy things that there's so much of like Tommy Wiseau wearing the multiple belts where it's like, look how different this is to show how different these characters are. But it feels weird to say that, that the Lost Boys has this sense of restraint. With my bad taste, I would have gone way, way worse.
- [113:14]
B
Not a lot of shoulder pads, not a lot of neon. It's like, it's a. I feel like the costumes offset how, like bold the, the lighting and set are. Like the, the costumes weren't restrained. I think to balance that out. I think they're, it's.
- [113:30]
A
I mean, there was some of that in the ensemble, but that's kind of of fun. Like, I, I like it just adds that little pop of like, I don't know.
- [113:38]
B
Yeah.
- [113:39]
C
The diversity of people on the boardwalk. That makes sense.
- [113:41]
A
Sure.
- [113:42]
B
1,000%. Yeah. And you know, the Elvira's and the Draculas. That's fun. Cute little kitschy things there. Okay, so let's go back to our, our, our blood soaked categories. Back to featured. We have featured actress in a play and featured actor in a play. Rachel, do you want. Which one do we want to start off with first?
- [114:00]
A
Let's do featured actress in a play.
- [114:05]
B
Okay. Do you have that pulled up? Do you wanna.
- [114:08]
A
I have leading direction. Direction, featured actor, feature actress. Okay.
- [114:13]
B
Okay.
- [114:15]
A
I might say some of them wrong. It's Betsy Adam. Betsy Adam for Liberation, Mary Louise Burke for the bolsters, Aya Cash for Giant, Laurie Metcalfe, Death of a Salesman, and June Squib. Squib for Marjorie Pride. June Squib.
- [114:33]
C
Squib game.
- [114:35]
A
Squib game.
- [114:37]
B
June Squibb, officially the oldest Tony nominee in history. 96 beat Lois Smith for the inheritance. And I believe, as Sam Ekman said in an older episode, the irony of that is Lois Smith was Marjorie prime in Playwrights Horizons in. What was it, 2012 or something.
- [114:53]
A
Wow.
- [114:56]
B
Yep. It's all interconnected. It's.
- [114:58]
A
What a squib thing to do.
- [115:01]
B
I know.
- [115:01]
A
That's classic squib.
- [115:03]
B
It's classic squib. Here's the thing. I love every single woman in this category. I wanted every single one of them to get in. I would love, I would have loved, loved, loved there to be a tie so we could have six and Cynthia Nixon could get in because, my God, was Cynthia Nixon extraordinary in Marjorie Prime.
- [115:21]
A
He really was. Yeah, she really was.
- [115:25]
B
Yeah.
- [115:25]
A
I love, like, I loved Jessica Hechton, Dog Day Afternoon.
- [115:29]
B
I liked Hecht a lot. I, I had said. I didn't, I didn't really buy into that she was gonna get nominated more than I was. Just like, every time I count hechecked out for something, she gets in there. So I was like, there's that little nagging bug in the back of my brain. She does do a good job. Similar to John Bernthal. I'm just like, it's not. The play doesn't help you.
- [115:50]
A
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's the one who's like, say Attica. I said, what?
- [115:57]
B
Remind him of Attica.
- [115:59]
A
Why is that her idea?
- [116:01]
B
Because, Rachel. Feminism, cuz. Feminism.
- [116:05]
A
Equal rights.
- [116:07]
B
Yeah.
- [116:07]
A
It's like liberation and equal wrongs.
- [116:10]
B
Hey, what's that? What's that tweet? I don't support all women. Some of you bitches are dumb.
- [116:18]
A
Well, hold on. That's not. That's not what I. I'm saying.
- [116:23]
B
Isn't it? Oh, so. So. So you support Erica Kirk, is what
- [116:26]
A
you're saying in her way canceled?
- [116:30]
B
No, I support her right to be Erica Kirk.
- [116:34]
A
I think she's in a grief psychosis right now, and I hold space for that. But I don't think that she should be given a microphone or fireworks. But that's.
- [116:46]
B
Listen, some people shouldn't be given microphones. People are still debating if I should have had one all along, you know, but that's. That's the journey we're on today.
- [116:55]
A
Three years.
- [116:55]
C
We are Mary Louise Burke.
- [116:59]
A
We carry the bolster balusters. Why can't I say that?
- [117:04]
C
We don't see the car.
- [117:06]
B
Do you want to explain that joke to the uncultured fucks? Will, what was that reference just then?
- [117:12]
A
Don't make him explain. We are Charlie Kirk.
- [117:14]
C
Better. No, no, no.
- [117:15]
B
Oh, is that what that was?
- [117:16]
A
Yeah. Did you. Have you never heard that somebody made, like, a parody song after he. I don't even know that it was a parody, but it's become. I think for some people it's satire, and for some people it is not. But it's a. It's. The song is. We are Charlie Kirk. We carry the flame.
- [117:31]
C
Yeah.
- [117:33]
A
Yeah. You brought up Erica Kirk. I didn't bring up Erica Kirk. You know what I mean? This isn't on me.
- [117:40]
B
I was going to say, it's as if liberation didn't even happen because of the way you were speaking about women, Rachel. But. But I digress.
- [117:47]
A
Equal rights and equal wrongs.
- [117:50]
B
Yeah, listen, I'm. I'm. I'm a hech, Ted. And she did lovely, but. Yes. Why did she have to come up with the idea of Attica? Let the gay man come up with the idea for once, you know, we have ideas.
- [117:59]
A
Yeah.
- [118:00]
B
Yeah, I agree with you.
- [118:02]
A
Also in.
- [118:03]
B
Not in this category, Ms. Carrie Young for Proof.
- [118:06]
A
Yes.
- [118:06]
B
Which there was. Did you guys get to see Proof?
- [118:10]
A
Not yet, no.
- [118:11]
B
Okay.
- [118:12]
A
Yeah.
- [118:14]
B
This production of Proof proves that it is indeed quite a good play. It's not a bad production. It's just sort of a. Their production. I described it as sort of like a, A very strong college production of, Of Proof. You know, it's, it's the act. Like, the acting is mostly good. I think Kara is absolutely, like, the strongest of the lot, but there's not. They don't really bring anything to the table that's exciting. And, and there was the thought that, like, Jessica Hecht, you never count out Carrie Young. She is the best one in the show. She is very well liked. I'm like, wouldn't it just rule for her to get five nominations in a row in the same category? Like, I think that would have actually been a new record.
- [118:55]
A
I mean.
- [118:57]
B
Yeah.
- [118:57]
A
Insane.
- [118:59]
B
And she was the last record placement, too.
- [119:01]
A
That's true.
- [119:03]
B
But she, that's when everybody was like,
- [119:05]
A
she's gonna do it.
- [119:06]
B
She's gonna do it. She's gonna make it happen. No, ultimately. But also, I'm, I'm, I, I, I should let you guys talk now. I want to hear who you're happy about in here and who you would have liked to have seen, but I also just want to say really fast, thrilled about Mary Louise Burke for Ballisters. She's so good in it. And, and, yeah, so funny. So funny. And it's about time she got properly recognized. Also, I've. People kept telling me I should get ready for heartbreak about this, but I am thrilled Aya Cash got in for Giant. Not only do I like her as a performer, not only do I think she's great in the show, but her hair and her shoes and her dress are all some shade of red and none of it clashes, and that's a fucking miracle. And I, and I put that all on her shoulders. Not the design, not the designer shoulders. I'm convinced that Aya Cash came in with her own outfit and said this
- [119:56]
A
very, very Elaine stritch pal Joey 1000%. The Dior suit.
- [120:02]
B
Suit, yeah.
- [120:04]
A
Oh, that's funny.
- [120:06]
B
But talk to me. Who are you happy to see here? Who are you sad to see out?
- [120:11]
A
I think Mary Louise Burke should win just for her pronunciation of the word robot, in which she calls it a robot.
- [120:21]
B
A robot.
- [120:22]
C
They make robots.
- [120:24]
A
They make robots. I, like, literally was. I had, like, tears running down my face in the seat. I was the only one who was laughing at it. You know when you, like, are.
- [120:32]
C
You wrote it down after I did.
- [120:34]
A
You did, yeah. Because we take little notes and I was like, don't forget, because I enjoyed it so much. So just. Just for that alone, that's my. And then June Squib. I was really hopeful for June Squib. But you never know. It's such a. There's just so much competition, and you just sort of are like, you know, are they gonna do it?
- [120:53]
B
Yeah.
- [120:54]
A
Or not. Whatever. You know what?
- [120:56]
C
Especially.
- [120:56]
B
Especially because it was looking like the people were forgetting about Marjorie prime. And so I got very, very nervous. It wasn't going to happen.
- [121:07]
A
That's the theme of the play, that
- [121:10]
B
people forget about Marjorie Prime. Other people just forget.
- [121:13]
A
They're forgetting. We have to remind them.
- [121:16]
B
We have to remind them. Yeah. And that's why when she and Dani both got in, I went, oh, okay, maybe revival's gonna happen. Then it didn't. But no, I was too many.
- [121:25]
A
There were too many too many.
- [121:26]
B
I was very happy to see her in here. Yeah. And of course, we got Laurie, who is, I think, probably going to win. And by probably probably, I mean definitely, which is. I'm not mad about. She's wonderful in Salesman. Honestly, this actually might be my favorite category this year. This definitely is my favorite best featured actress in a play lineup in a long time. I love every woman here. Yeah. Will, what about you? Any thoughts?
- [121:58]
C
It's a great category. I want to give flowers for Mary Louise Burke and also for a line that she has without spoiling the plot or one of the changes in the show. Someone says something to her that is a callback earlier, and she so lovingly goes, you bitch. And it's like there's so much love and playfulness. Like, it felt like the early seasons of Just Shoot Me, where it's like, everybody is friends. They can fight, but they are still friends. And that was like a world building line reading. I thought that was fun.
- [122:51]
A
That is something that that play did very well. You're never really concerned that it's all gonna fall apart because of the way that those sort of relationships exist in real life. Like, if you're. If you're attending meetings like that, it's like things would have to escalate so insanely to take any sort of little petty thing and really run with it rather than just to sort of, like, have to sit with it. And there's something so fun about that because I feel like typically in plays, that's not where that goes. So I enjoy. I don't know if any of that made any sense, but that is what I enjoyed about that play.
- [123:30]
B
No, I absolutely understand that. Yeah. Also, when she asks towards the end of the play, one character how their wife is doing, that was a very beautiful moment that happened.
- [123:42]
A
Like, yay.
- [123:43]
B
I also want to give a shout out to Margaret Cullen, who has one of my favorite lines in the play, which is they have to make a very important vote and a character abstains. And she says, geez, even her votes are non binary.
- [123:53]
C
I was like, amazing, amazing line.
- [123:56]
B
David Lindsay, a bear, you fucking genius.
- [123:59]
A
I love that. Amazing.
- [124:03]
B
Yeah, listen, respect for those we don't have in here. Also, Anne Reed for Oedipus. Also wonderful performer Madeline Brewer and Linda Eamond and Lauren Patton for Becky Shaw. All three wonderful. I mean, Becky Shaw is just a really wonderful ensemble of people. Also, we had the actress playing Martha in Joe Turner's Come and Gone. She's really lovely in that show. So, you know, if you don't get in here, just look at the five we have and just be like, damn, like bangers, all of them. And it's. If you got in, you should. I think you should feel fed for a year. And if you didn't get in, you should be able to sleep knowing like, how. How could I look at that.
- [124:46]
A
Did my best.
- [124:47]
B
Yeah, exactly. I did my best. It's hard for you.
- [124:48]
A
This wasn't a year.
- [124:50]
B
Yeah. Featured actor in a play. Ms. Rachel, would you mind reading us off this category?
- [124:55]
A
I could try my best. Christopher Abbott, Death of a Salesman. Danny Burstein, Marjorie Prime. Brandon J. Is it Durden?
- [125:05]
B
Durden, yeah.
- [125:05]
A
Waiting for Godot.
- [125:08]
B
Alden Ehrenreich.
- [125:10]
A
Thank you. Becky Shaw. Reuben Santiago. Hudson. Joe Turner's coming. Gone. And Richard Thomas for the Bolsters. Ballisters. I'm never gonna get it. That'll be my running joke for the whole season. I'm never gonna get it.
- [125:25]
B
Yeah, Running jokes. I'm talking.
- [125:27]
A
Can you believe I grew up in a. A ranch style house? I don't know how to say
- [125:33]
B
the running joke for the rest. Rachel's not knowing how to say balusters. I'm talking about. I'm talking about man. Men's pants. And Will's going to talk to us about jazz. That's like the running joke for the rest of Tony season.
- [125:44]
A
Hey,
- [125:47]
B
talk to me, guys. I mean, I know that we're running in a deficit with some of the plays this year, but like off of vibes. What are we, what are we feeling?
- [125:56]
A
I mean, when I saw Joe Turner's Come and Gone, I said, like, Reuben's taking. I said, I don't even care about the other play. He's taking it. The performance that he was giving was so, like, it felt like he was coming out of the earth. Does that make any sense? Like, he. It was, like, so visceral and human and like salt of the earth and, like. And humorous, and it was. It was everything at once. I don't know. He. I don't know if that's typically a part that gets celebrated in that way or if he was taking apart and, like, really making it something. So I. I read Joe Turner's Coming Gone in college, but I'd never seen it staged. So when I had read it, I really didn't think I could have never imagined what he did with it, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Like, I was. I was very taken aback and. And impressed by the performance. So that was my, like. Like, that's. He's a lock for me. I was really happy to see Danny Burstein. I thought he gave, like, an incredibly emotional. I said, we can't keep doing this to him. We can't keep doing this to him. Who's doing this? Is he seeking it out, or are they seeking him? Because we can't. It's abusive. It's. I've.
- [127:15]
B
I think it's a toxic, codependent relationship.
- [127:17]
A
As an audience member, I said, I can't keep watching him live all this out. Again, this is. I don't know, but excellent.
- [127:26]
B
Yeah. No, I agree with you. I'm like, can we let him just go to the country for three months and sleep? And then wouldn't that be nice? But then we wouldn't get his beautiful performance in Marjorie Prime.
- [127:38]
A
I know. It's a self.
- [127:41]
B
Yeah. Will any standouts for you?
- [127:43]
C
I was also for Ruben Santiago Hudson. That's a part that can get. So you want to luxuriate in the weirdness of that character in that world, and he just felt. He felt normal in it so that everyone else could think that he was weird.
- [128:00]
B
Yeah. I walked out of Joe Turner, and I was like, if there's one person in this production I am confident about, it's Ruben. I do think it is the role of the show, but again, that doesn't necessarily guarantee anything. It's a high risk, high reward. You have the best role. Don't squander it. Now, of course, Ruben Santiago Hudson doesn't know how to squander opportunity. He's like, I'm sorry. I. I fulfill your expectations every time. What's so hard? I bring it to you every ball. But I. But still, you know what I mean? So I'm thrilled he's in here. I would if. This is our only tie in a performance category this season. After last year, we had lead actor and, I think, featured actor in a musical. Both. Oh, no. The actor in a play and lead actor in a musical both were ties with six. This is our only performance category that has six. And I would. If I were to put money on it, I would probably say Brandon J. Dearden for Waiting for Gato and Richard Thomas and the Balusters probably were the ties. I'm not mad about. I'm actually really happy Thomas is in here for the Ballisters. I loved what he did with that role. It would have been so easy to try to be overly annoying, like, yeah, evil, like, white guy president. And he really goes. I think I said, like, he goes for 1950s soda jerk. Emphasis on the jerk. But, you know, like, with a smile on your face as he gives you this Sunday, he's like, oh, and by the way, I will be calling your mother as you head home to tell her that you skipped school to have ice cream here today. But thank you for the dollar and 50 cents. It's just like, that kind of energy, which I thought was really fantastic. And the play would not. The balance of everything wouldn't work if he wasn't both so endearing and so, like, annoying. You know, you need that.
- [129:43]
A
You can 100% see where he's coming from and understand it, even if you don't agree with it, which I appreciate in a villain and villains. You know what's so funny? We saw it on a night where there was. It was like, it was a much younger audience.
- [130:00]
B
Yeah.
- [130:01]
A
MTC does, like, 30 under 30, and they do invites for young people. And we saw it on a night that was a lot of young people, and we were talking to some people who work on the show afterwards, and they were like. We were getting applause on lines that, like, nobody ever applauds for. And it's because the audience perspective was that of younger people. So I think a lot of people go in and see him and, like, really relate, which is crazy because obviously the three of us are in the younger category. Thank you very much. Thank you.
- [130:40]
B
Famously young.
- [130:41]
A
Yes. I've actually the youngest person ever, which is wild.
- [130:46]
B
You haven't even been born yet. It's crazy what you're able to do.
- [130:48]
A
Thank you. I look great. But Yeah, I thought that was so interesting that, like, it's a complete different interpretation depending on how old you are and what your experience of life is. So we're sitting here being like, oh, he's the villain. And a lot of people are like, I relate to that guy. So who. And that might be why he got nominated. I have no idea. Do you know what I mean? I think that's very interesting.
- [131:14]
B
I mean, I think that's what makes it really strong writing and a great performance is. I think I can relate to some of the things that he talks about. While I also think that he's objectively the villain of the piece.
- [131:25]
A
100.
- [131:26]
B
If you. Yeah, if you watch someone be an on stage and you can't find, like, a sliver of yourself in them, then chances are you have no self awareness and you actually are just like a genuine villain of life because, like, we all have the potential to be the villain of someone else's story. And you see where he's coming from and you're like, I. I get it. Here's where you're. Where. I think you're off track. And also where what you're doing actually is now manipulation. The rest of this category, though, I will say Pavi Brandon J. Dearden is in here. I was not a fan of this Waiting for Godot, but I think he nails what Jamie Lord was trying to do. Christopher Abbott. I need to go back and see Salesman, because when I saw it, it was still early enough in previews. I didn't feel like he had found act one yet. So I like to see what he does with some time. And then Alden Ehrenreich in Becky Shaw is just like Chef's Kiss. Perfect. No notes. And really. Oh, no. I think Rachel's frozen on my end.
- [132:22]
C
Oh, she. Yeah. I was wondering if she was gonna come back, but.
- [132:26]
B
Oh, we lost her. Yeah, we lost her. She's coming back. She's coming back. But, yes, Alden Ehrenreich and Becky Shaw, I think is such a fantastic performance. I would. I would probably vote for him if not for Ruben. Those are sort of who I'm boiling it down to, but I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah. Is there anybody who's not here, Will that you are?
- [132:55]
C
Gosh, I. I know that it's not a role that would get nominated, but I think it's funny that the actor playing Alan in the Ballisters is not nominated. It's like, you know, that that character would wake up today and be like, they forgot me again. Ugh. And, like, be so frustrated by it.
- [133:15]
B
Yeah.
- [133:16]
C
Be like, this was on purpose. But like, oh, yeah, everyone was lovely. It's.
- [133:21]
A
Yeah.
- [133:22]
B
The one who. The one who has the monologue about, like, I'm trying to be a good person and everyone. Yeah, I'll be a villain. Yeah. Yeah.
- [133:26]
C
It's like everyone decided, like, we're not friends with Alan anymore and it's. That character would be having a bad day. But, yeah, I'm here.
- [133:36]
B
Elliot Levy for Giant. Just because he won the Olivier, I'm pretty sure when the show was in London and he's not. He's not here. Which is.
- [133:47]
C
I'd be interested in seeing how the parallels between where that show was nominated for Olivier's and what was nominated for Tony's today. I'd be curious to compare those.
- [134:00]
B
Yeah. I mean, I know play actor. I think featured actress as well, maybe director in London. I think Heitner won director over there. So it might be that Elliot's the only one from the Oliviers who isn't here, but I would imagine. Yeah, I think that's the only one.
- [134:18]
A
We're so back. I'm so sorry.
- [134:21]
C
We're so back.
- [134:22]
B
She's so back, baby. We were just talking about someone who's not here. And featured actor in a play is Elliot Levy for Giant, who I believe won the Olivier for the role last year.
- [134:33]
A
Interesting.
- [134:34]
B
Yeah. But this is also why I always talk about how, like, the Oliviers can help sort of give you a shape of what? When productions come over here, you can go like, okay, so, like, the Olivia is like, so and so. That doesn't make them a lock, but it gives you an idea of maybe, like, who are the standouts in the production. You know, it's different competition, different mindset from voters. But it. Yeah, it. It happens sometimes where, like, someone will win the Olivier and come over here and they don't get nominated, or they get nominated over there and don't get nominated here. Elena, Roger in Evita. David Thaxton for Sunset Boulevard. These things do happen. But. So that was just an Andrew Lloyd
- [135:14]
A
or Lloyd Webber shows.
- [135:16]
B
Yeah, Justin and Lloyd Webber shows. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [135:19]
C
Well, no other shows get performed.
- [135:22]
B
Yeah, we don't have any other English shows unless Andrew Lloyd Webber wrote it. Andrew Lloyd Webber wrote Giant, didn't he?
- [135:29]
A
In a way.
- [135:30]
C
But it was. It was one of the names for. For Baijeeves.
- [135:34]
A
It was Giant by Jeeves.
- [135:37]
B
My God, it's been 84 years since I heard that. Almost. Okay, let's. I think that's it for the featured performances. Quickly, we'll just go through book. It's pretty standard. We have Titanique, Schmigadoon, Two Strangers, and the Lost Boys. Yeah, we all expected it. And there it was.
- [135:59]
A
Do you have a fave?
- [136:01]
B
Um, probably Titanique. My only issue with Titanique's book right now is once they move to Broadway, they added a couple of extra bits that I don't think they needed to. The Show's now about 10 minutes longer than it was off Broadway. And I thought it was such a tight 100 off Broadway that now it's about an hour and 50. So that's my only note. Schmuckadoon, I think, is cute. I think the arc of Sarah Chase and Alex Brightman makes sense. I have been very open that I always have a hard time with satire slash spoof of musical theater because I always find it to be so skin deep that for me and my nerd brain, I'm like, that's not a real thing you're making fun of. Like. And Schminckadoon's whole thing is like, Cinco Paul will always say, like, you know, that trope in the Golden Age musicals were like, there's the carnival barker who kills himself. I'm like, that's just Carousel.
- [136:49]
C
Not a trope, just an example.
- [136:51]
A
It's literally like, it's just Carousel and the Music man and then, like, three other references.
- [136:58]
B
Yeah, the opening number is Oklahoma. That's what that is. Yeah. And then, like, little pieces of Brigadoon and I guess Finian's Rainbow sort of sprinkled in there, but it's like, little things. I think my biggest issue is, I do wish he had melded a few other Golden Age. If he's going to do a spoofing of Golden Age shows to have more of them in there and weave it in. I think there's more story opportunity. I also think that the second act kind of wraps up extraordinarily fast. Like, Ana Gastire, for all the fun she is, is not a real threat to any of the story. It doesn't really matter to Sarah Chase and Alex Brightman's storyline what she does, and then, like, the threat she poses gets trampled in two minutes flat. But, like, there are good jokes. And I think that he. I do, I guess. Again, I like their arc, but that's my issue with that show's Lost Boys, I think, takes a really long time to get to Michael becoming a half vampire. And then the second act, I think, takes such a Pivot to camp that I don't super love. And then two strangers I just think should be 90 minutes. I don't think it warrants the two act structure. And I also think that they add a couple of details that ultimately go nowhere. Like, spoiler alert. Christiana Pitts having banged Dougal's dad and like all that.
- [138:17]
A
I'm like, we don't, that's, we didn't,
- [138:19]
B
we didn't need that. And like the whole thing of like, I haven't spoken to my grandma in three years, it ultimately doesn't mean anything. It's like, you know, just things like that. But yeah. What about you guys? Any. Anyone you're particularly rooting hard for?
- [138:34]
A
I'd like it for. I'd like for it to go to Titanic. I think just, I, I just, I think it's the most fun. I think it has the most fun. I think it makes sense the way that they're presenting the story. I think tonally it stays consistent. I just really enjoyed it. And yeah, I have my issues with. I also, here's my other schmigadoon problem and it's making me sound like I don't like Shmigadun and I really love Shumigadoon, but it's really tough for me to think about the dozens of people who worked on that television show who did all of that, that writing. And then someone gets to come in and be like, special thanks to you guys. But now I'm the book writer of this, I think stinks. So, yeah, that's, that's.
- [139:30]
B
I feel you.
- [139:31]
A
That's how I feel about that. I'm like, at least, you know, the people who wrote Titanique are the ones that wrote Titanique who are the ones
- [139:40]
B
that are the ones who are accredited.
- [139:41]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I actually take, take a little bit of offense to like one person being like, I wrote this and it's like kind of, yeah, you, you
- [139:51]
B
took what other people wrote that well, a show that you created that you had to help with writers on. And then you take a lot of that material and you boil it down. But yeah, I mean, from what I understand, there's nothing really different on, from the stage show, from the TV show. It's just, you know, cutting stuff and
- [140:07]
A
not enough for, for me to go, like, that's the person who should, should singularly win. If it was him and the team of writers from the TV show, I'd feel differently, sure. But it's not the lack of loving the show. Like, I do really love the show. It's just the thought of, like. Like, one person getting up there and being like, I did this, like, actually really bothers me.
- [140:27]
C
So it's like a paperwork concern. It's like, no, no, no. Like, I. I like what's there. It's the crediting.
- [140:34]
A
For me, it boils down to labor. It's like. Or like, me as somebody who's, like, worked on a lot of things, who's, like, perhaps maybe had ideas that I came up with that, like, other people took credit for. I'm very sensitive to it. So that's kind of like where my. My head is with. With that kind of thing.
- [140:51]
B
Can't relate, Rachel. No one's ever. No one's ever done that to me.
- [140:55]
A
I steal your idea. I can't come up with one example to be even funnier.
- [141:04]
B
I steal from you guys all the time, too. But no, as you should. As I should. You guys are so fucking funny. No, there's. There is sort of a grudge I think we all have when we do something, and then like, a year later, someone takes it and does it, like, a little different and then gets all this credit for it. And you're like, that's not. And not just. I'm talking, like, social media, particularly, but I know you have projects that you've collaborated on, and people have done that too.
- [141:30]
A
Yeah. I mean, social media inherently, there's a lot of, like, borrowing of ideas and like. Like, you know, like, that's what, like, templates and trends and, like, that doesn't bother me so much. But, like, when we're talking about, like, winning awards, like, getting to say I wrote the best book of a musical, it doesn't sit quite right with me. And I. I'm. Maybe I'm being. Maybe I'm being too. Too prickly about it. I don't know. But that's just how I. I personally feel about it.
- [141:58]
B
Too moralistic. No, I hear you. And I think there's some. I think there's something about that, for sure. I. It's. I don't think a lot of people are clocking that right now because they've done such a good job of marketing this as the TV show with Single Paul's brainchild. When the show was. Was running, he was the one in all the interviews, so it's. The narrative, publicly, has always been that. But, yeah, you're right. Like, he didn't write the whole show alone. I'm almost positive he. It's. There should be some more acknowledgement of that, for sure.
- [142:27]
A
It's true. Quite literally, like a special thanks in the playbill. And I get that that's part of like the contract that you sign in all of it. But it's sort of like, I don't
- [142:36]
B
know, I gotta stop talking about it. Especially since I don't think that Marla is going to win actress anymore. I would really like them to win book for Titanique. Or maybe they don't win book and Marla does surprise with best actress. I don't know. We'll see how the next month goes. But Titanique is my favorite of the librettos of this category for sure. Moving on. Okay, best performance by an actor in a leading role in a play and best performance by an actress in a leading role in a play. Will do you have either of those pulled up for us, sir?
- [143:07]
C
Leading actress in a play.
- [143:09]
B
Let's go for it.
- [143:10]
C
We've got Rose Byrne in Fallen Angels. We've got Carrie Coon in Bug. We've got Susannah Flood in Liberation. We've got Leslie Manville in Sorry. We've got Leslie Manville in Oedipus. We've got Kelli o' Hara in Fallen Angels.
- [143:25]
B
So here's my thing and then I'm to going to hand the floor over to you guys because I only have two things to say. One is Leslie Manville. Leslie Manville. Leslie Manville. Second, there was a lot of talk about oh, could you know, is this isn't a death becomes her situation. This isn't a war pain situation. This isn't a wicked situation Rose Burns going to get in, but probably not Kelly o' Hara to and I kept saying, I don't see how you nominate one without the other. I said it multiple times. And that's why I kind of stuck to my guns and said they'll both get in and motherfucker, they both got in. And I should be listened to far more often. You hear that Broadway? Hire me for everything. Okay, that's all Will Rachel thoughts?
- [144:07]
A
I co sign all of that. Yeah, I co sign all of that.
- [144:11]
C
Fallen Angels really is those two and other characters appear around them. But the, the, the crux of it is those two. So.
- [144:21]
A
And who doesn't love Marc and Sullivan?
- [144:24]
B
I'm. Listen, I would have, I would have a threesome with my best friend if it meant we both got to be with Mark Consuelos. You know what I mean?
- [144:37]
A
And, and who didn't. Who among us didn't watch Riverdale? You know what I mean? It's like good for him.
- [144:45]
B
Well done. Yeah, well Done.
- [144:47]
A
I was really happy to see Carrie Coon for Bug. Not that I saw it, because I can't do horror on stage unless it's a musical, quite literally. So many people in my life were like, do not see this play. You will freak out. So I took that advice, including my husband. Thank you, Will. But I do know that what she was doing was extraordinary. Like, I didn't have to see the play to know that, like, Carrie Coon rocks. So I was happy to see her nomination as well.
- [145:17]
B
Same. And we had some guests who were not convinced that she was gonna get in. They thought she was sort of on the bubble at, like, number six. There was talk of maybe IO getting in for Proof or Lori getting in again for Little Bear Ridge Road. And we'll talk about that in a second as we get to Best Play. But I understood that because I was pretty sure that that Little Bear Ridge Road was getting that fourth slot for Best play. And I was like, I feel like they're gonna get Laurie in there. So there's some symmetry there. And then when Will Harrison got in for Punch, people were like, oh, well, maybe Punch will get the Best Play nomination. But ultimately, we split the diff. But, yeah, I mean, I'm. I like the play of Bug. I don't love this production, but Carrie absolutely was the. The focal point of it and really nailed her assignment for. For the most part. So I'm. I'm happy she's in here for sure. And, you know, she was banging that drum about how the world works of, like, I had to do White Lotus and Gilded Age so I could get this production about Greenlight. Not like, she didn't sit there with a game plan, but she's like, this production would not have been greenlit for Broadway had I not done 100%.
- [146:24]
A
It's. It's Ben Platt saying that the Dear Evan Hansen movie would have never gotten made without him, so.
- [146:29]
B
Yep. But say no. Saying it in a way that we all can understand. Stop.
- [146:32]
C
It's stuff.
- [146:32]
A
It's. It does.
- [146:34]
B
It does. Yeah. How many? So you didn't see Carrie, but I know you saw Rose and Kelly. I know you saw Leslie. Didn't you saw the Brig? We haven't seen Fallen Angels.
- [146:44]
A
No, but we're going to.
- [146:47]
C
And I know the play of Fallen Angels pretty well.
- [146:49]
A
Yeah. You listened to it recently, correct?
- [146:51]
C
I listened to it on Audible. Has a thing where a lot of plays were recorded for LA theater work, and they just. Their works cycle through and they're just included. So you can listen to A lot of plays.
- [147:10]
A
This is now suddenly an ad for Audible.
- [147:14]
C
Unfortunately, the day after the Death Bezos Met Ball. So don't subscribe to Audible, do the free trial and leave there. There are many. You can create as many email addresses as you'd like.
- [147:30]
B
Yes. And you can support the arts in that way without supporting Bezos. I think that's a wonderful way to go about that. Okay, so when you see Fallen Angels, you'll see what I'm talking about in terms of not only their performances, but also what they both bring to the table. They're both so incredibly game in this production, and it's going to sound. So. It's gonna sound slightly misogynistic, and I don't mean it this way, but there's something really satisfying about watching two stunningly beautiful women who have no problem looking like fools. You know what I mean? Like, that lack of vanity, especially as the play continues. Like, when they get to the morning after the debacle between them, they have, like, these giant hangovers and the way that they are. I'm like, good for fucking both of you. You are objectively stunning women. And you're like, yeah, and I'll look like a fucking garbage heap. And by the end of the show, I don't care. I'm like, yes.
- [148:23]
A
Well, yeah. I mean, Rose Bird did Bridesmaids where she was. I mean, yeah, same. Same, same. But different.
- [148:31]
B
Yeah. And I mean, I. I feel like people sometimes forget how funny she is. People forget about Bridesmaids. People forget about Spy. She's so funny in Spy.
- [148:39]
A
Neighbors too. What? Was Not Neighbors.
- [148:42]
B
No, she's in Both Neighbors. Neighbors and Neighbors, too. Yeah. She's life. Yeah. And this is. Honestly, I've never totally found Kelly to be, like, the most humorous person, but I feel like post Days of Wine and Roses, she's in this new renaissance of her career where she's, like, allowing herself to be messy again and finding the artistic joy of that. Because, like, the Kelly o' Hara who was of, like, King and I Kiss Me Kate era would not have done this. The Kelly who's done Kilted Age and Days of Wine and Roses is like, yeah, I'm gonna get drunk and sloppy.
- [149:15]
A
Yeah.
- [149:15]
B
And I love her.
- [149:16]
A
Yeah. Yeah. She contains multitudes.
- [149:19]
B
She do. She do. I love my. I love my Clara Johnson and Susanna. She's, you know, she's the linchpin of liberation. I'm glad she's in here. She does beautiful work. Performance by an actor in a play. Okay, Rachel, would you do us the honors? And Read off, please.
- [149:33]
A
Performance by an actor in a play. Will Harrison. Punch. Nathan Lane. Depth of a Salesman. John Lithgow. Giant. Daniel Radcliffe. Every brilliant thing. Strong, Oedipus. Really strong. That's a list.
- [149:48]
B
No, no, it's really.
- [149:50]
A
That's a list.
- [149:51]
B
That's a list there. We had a few discorders who really wanted John Bernthal in there for Dog Day Afternoon.
- [149:57]
A
I understand.
- [150:00]
B
Yeah, I understand that.
- [150:02]
A
I mean, I think if there's any sort of redeeming quality of that whole thing, it would. Was. He was really committed.
- [150:12]
B
Yeah, no, he's. He. I think he does good work. And I, I more. But I more watched him in that and I felt I want to see you in something better now. Not that I was. I, I didn't watch him go, you're successful. I was like, you have so much potential. You're so committed. Let's get you something better. Will Harrison in Punch, first of all, is much more of a central performance. Like, it's, it's just objectively, there's more time on stage and it's. There's more to do. And I mean, say what you will about Punch, Lord knows I have. I, I found it to be an unsuccessful play, but act two, the scene of the four of them in that, like, group therapy scene. Him, Victoria Clark, Sam Robards, and the. His, like, therapist or whatever her name is. Did you guys see Punch?
- [150:54]
C
No.
- [150:55]
B
Okay. But like, you know the premise, right? It's about a punch. What if there was a punch? Yeah, you know, you know, he punches the dude, the dude dies, he goes to jail for a bit, and then he starts corresponding with, with the parents of the dude who died. And they, once he's out of prison and he's rehabilitated, they, Victoria Clark, the mom really wants to like, have a sit down with him and talk about it all. And so he's there with them and his therapist or like life coach or whatever she is, and it's. I want to say it's like a 15 minute scene uninterrupted. And it's the only time in the play we have that. And it's just, it's stunning work from everybody. And he doesn't do a lot of talking, but just like, like, it's, it. It really fucking moved me. So I'm glad he's in here. For that alone, um, I feel very vindicated because I had been saying that Mark Strong was a lock all season long. He wasn't getting nominated at the drama desks or the drama league, and people were going Oh, I don't know. And I said, no, no, no. It's just the logistics of how this is all working out. I'm telling you, he's in. People also are saying, I don't know about Daniel Radcliffe. I'm like, I don't know what we're talking about. Why would I know?
- [152:04]
A
They love him.
- [152:07]
B
The thing is, until Merrily, he never got nominated, right?
- [152:09]
A
That.
- [152:09]
B
That was his first nomination, but it's sort of like now that he's won, like, the ice is broken. He is beloved in the community, and it's like this play is all about him. The whole reason this production works is him for reason. But you know what I mean? Like, it's. I always said, like I said in my. In my live show, which people can buy tickets for the next one in June, but I said, every brilliant thing's about mental health. And the way that Little Shop of Horrors is about horticulture, it's about. Not really about that. It's more about, like, the performer. And Daniel Radcliffe really sells it. So when he got in and Mark Strong got in, I was like, I told you guys all along, Will was the wild card because it could have gone to John Bernthal. There was a world in which fear of 13 could have gotten in, but ultimately, fear of 13 just got a couple of below the line categories. World in which James Corden could have gone in for Art, Art blanked. In fact, actually, for a quick second, you're dead. Art, Art proof, Call me Izzy. Beaches, Queen of Versail, and Mamma Mia. Are our big blankers this season. Punch has the. Has the lone nomination, so lovely Little Bear Ridge Road, the lone nomination. But, yeah, what do we. Other than Jon Bernthal? Any other thoughts here, babes?
- [153:18]
A
I think that's it. I mean, I'm not sure. Again, I haven't seen Giant or Death of a Salesman, but that kind of. It kind of feels like it's between the two of them. Is that what. How people are feeling?
- [153:30]
B
Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. So it's sort of. From. From what I've been gathering, is that Leslie Manville feels like such a lock for Best Actress and that everyone has sort of decided, like, that's where we're going to honor at Oedipus. So while we love Mark Strong, he's great.
- [153:49]
A
I thought he was superb. He's.
- [153:52]
B
He's wonderful. I mean, I thought Oedipus was. Is one of my favorite things this season, but, you know, it's not running anymore. And. And I do. I do think that everyone agrees Like Leslie's, where we're going to honor that. So now it goes down to. Okay, Lithgow and Lane. Lithgow kind of is giant. Lane is not the sole thing that makes salesmen succeed. But at the same time, it's like, I don't know, how do you vote for Death of a Salesman and not vote for Willie Loman? But there's also precedent for that because Philip Seymour Hoffman didn't win for his revival, but that did win revival. So, you know, it's a lot of different pieces moving about for either narrative. But, yeah, I do think it comes down to the two of them for sure.
- [154:34]
A
A coin flip.
- [154:35]
B
A coin flip. Yeah, we'll see. But, yeah, I'm not mad about this category either. Now we have our final big ones. Revival of Musical, Catch the Jellicoe Ball, Ragtime and Rocky Horror Show. Other than the fact that Will didn't do the math on this, I don't think there's any surprises here.
- [154:50]
A
I mean, it's not just Will, though. Like, we were in our live, and everyone was like, three, only three. So, I mean, I think people need
- [154:58]
B
to read the goddamn paper, but that's
- [155:00]
A
what you're there for, Matt. You needed to. You needed to let us all know.
- [155:04]
B
I'm sorry, I was. I was doing a live with Casey Balsham of its Broadway bitch. I was not invited to your live. I'm so sorry. I should have been there.
- [155:11]
A
Yeah, no, well, I. I spoke a lot about the. That we were about to do the podcast on the Live, so hopefully the listeners.
- [155:18]
B
Everyone will listen a little now.
- [155:19]
A
Shout out to anyone who was on our live who's here 2 hours and 30 minutes into
- [155:25]
B
the way. I believe the numbers far. You've made it this far. I believe the numbers go. If it's less, fewer than six contenders, it is three nominations. If it's.
- [155:34]
A
Unless there's a tie, yes.
- [155:36]
B
If it's more than six, but below nine, it becomes four. And then if it's nine or more, it becomes five. That is how I think the numbers work. Okay, don't fully quote me on that, But I'm, like, 89% sure we have
- [155:50]
A
to make an infographic for next year.
- [155:53]
B
There we go. Yeah. But, yeah, I think these are our three. I think Rocky Horror. I had said. I had said back in fucking, like, December or January that, like, Roundabout really had to shit the bed with Rocky Horror not to get in because Roundabout just has a good relationship with the Tony Awards. They don't always win, but they tend to just get nominated A lot. And Rocky Horror, while maybe some people are underwhelmed, it's not a shit show. It's still enjoyable in its own right. And clearly people feel the same way because it actually did quite well today. But that's where I was like, guys, I really. I don't think it's chess. I think Cass and Ragtime are, like, our two opponents. And then Rocky Horror is the one that's like. And we're here. We're here, and we're nice. Best musical. I know it's the big one, but also, like, no surprises here. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Will, you were gonna say quick question
- [156:43]
C
on Rocky horror for the 2000 production with everyone. Was that also Roundabout or who. Who was that?
- [156:53]
B
That was a commercial. That was a commercial production at Circle in the Square. That. I think Roundabout, that year was Follies. Yes, it was Follies that year for Roundabout. But, yeah, Rocky Horror was.
- [157:03]
C
Was a. I think it was at Studio 54. Okay. No. No worries.
- [157:06]
A
Wait, can we take a second?
- [157:07]
B
I was at Studio. Was at Studio 54 at that point.
- [157:11]
A
Can we take a second to talk about the possibility of it being three Andrew Lloyd Webber in a row? If it's Sunset last year, Katz takes it this year, and Evita takes it next year, wouldn't that be insane?
- [157:27]
B
It would be. It would be epic. I. I would. I would hope that he would finally be a content and happy man with all of that.
- [157:37]
A
You know damn well it's a bottomless hole. What are you gonna do? You can't fill it.
- [157:44]
B
You can't help it. And to quote Lady Gaga, aren't you tired trying to fill that void? But I mean, the thing about Weber, that something that Patti LuPone once said, that is very true, and I don't often quote her because, you know, while she has done a lot for this world, she's also a demon twink.
- [158:02]
A
And who amongst us.
- [158:03]
B
Who amongst us? That's. That's our spirit animal. She said Weber always wanted Sondheim's acclaim, and Sondheim wanted Weber's money. And so, like Weber, for all of his financial success and, like, shows all around the world, it always bothered him that especially on Broadway, he was never credited as an actual artist, and he wanted that approval. And I do think, like, the Sunset revival win was very. That, you know, helped him a lot. I know he didn't really care for that revival, but he liked what it did for his reputation. I do know that he likes this revival of Jellicoebal. He's fully supportive of it. He's out there promoting it. If that wins, that's a kind of reclamation for him. So, yeah, I would hope that he would kind of go, oh, I'm glad that my fuck around and find out era is paying off. Like, he's finally allowing people to play with his shows, and it's turning really well for him.
- [158:54]
A
You know, the moment that I think that started was when they reopened Phantom on Broadway and he was DJing outside and he played who Let the Dogs Out? Do you know what I mean? Do you know what I'm talking about?
- [159:06]
B
I know exactly what you're talking about.
- [159:07]
A
I said, that's. I think that's the moment everything changed. I think that actually, like, ripped a new timeline. Do you know what I mean?
- [159:14]
B
Yeah.
- [159:14]
A
Where it was like, oh, now we're gonna get weird with it.
- [159:17]
B
Yeah. Someone. He did that for the day, and he went, what is that thing I felt yesterday? And someone went, fun. He's like, yes, fun, fun, fun. Should we try that some more?
- [159:28]
A
And Jamie Lloyd was like, hold my beer.
- [159:31]
B
No, Jamie Lloyd was like, hold my ayahuasca.
- [159:34]
A
Hold my. Hold my bucket of goop.
- [159:39]
B
Hold all of my paint and my. Hey, hey. And we love it.
- [159:43]
A
Listen, Jamie, if you're listening, we love it. Yeah.
- [159:46]
B
Jamie was like, you take my goo, I'm taking your pants. Here we go. See, I.
- [159:52]
A
You guys think.
- [159:53]
B
You think I'm a creep. I like. I like to see my men in pants. Jamie Lloyd likes to see his men without pants. It's fine.
- [160:00]
A
It's fine. And who.
- [160:03]
B
Yeah.
- [160:03]
C
Men without Pants. They're the group that did the safety dance.
- [160:09]
B
So best musical. Bye.
- [160:13]
A
Goodbye.
- [160:15]
B
I think we can just say this really quickly. It's what we. Best musical is Agatha All Along. Lost Boy, Schmuckadoon, Titanique. Two Strangers. No surprises. We all knew this. Same thing with Best Play. Honestly, for me, Ballister's giant liberation, Little Bear Ridge Road. There was a world in. People thought maybe Punch could get in there, especially when Will Harrison got the actor nomination. I thought maybe that could happen ultimately again. Agatha all along. Of all the new plays, Little Bear Ridge Road, technically speaking, had the best reviews of the season, but closed early. So it's.
- [160:46]
A
Yeah.
- [160:46]
B
Well, I didn't love it myself, but, like, I didn't hate it. I just. I was a little baffled by how strong the reviews were. But, yeah, I think it's. It's a nice little honoring of a little show. That and Samuel Hunter's Broadway debut. So, yeah. I don't know. Was there anything here that you thought Might get in. That didn't.
- [161:07]
A
No, I don't think so. Did you?
- [161:11]
C
Well, no, this is.
- [161:13]
B
Will was like, I'm sorry, where's the. Call me Izzy, love.
- [161:17]
A
We missed that one.
- [161:18]
C
I'm sitting with Little. Little Bear, Ridge Road. I'm surprised. I think it's the first adaptation of a Nick Jr. Property to, to win. To get nominated for best new Play.
- [161:29]
A
Bear in the Big Blue House.
- [161:30]
C
Maurice send. Maurice Sendak's Little Bear Ridge Road.
- [161:34]
A
Oh, Little Bear is.
- [161:34]
C
They're telling you where he is. Little Bear.
- [161:36]
A
Little Bear. Sorry, wrong bear.
- [161:39]
C
Wrong bear.
- [161:40]
B
Well, listen, I can't wait for the, for the porno of that Little Bear Ribbed Road.
- [161:47]
A
I don't like that.
- [161:49]
B
I don't like it either. But Mike, I think on three different occasions today have I actually gotten Will like I got. Got him good. And that was.
- [161:59]
C
I couldn't, I couldn't see that coming.
- [162:01]
B
I.
- [162:02]
A
Well, because it was part of the film.
- [162:07]
B
You don't see a comment.
- [162:08]
A
Woo. Hello.
- [162:10]
B
Hello.
- [162:10]
A
How do we feel about the Pulitzer
- [162:12]
B
of it all with Liberation? I mean, I think it's a lovely Pulitzer win and I do think that that ultimately is going to help them. Pulitzer winners have not always won Best Play and I, I think Purpose is the first Pulitzer winner to win play in God, like 14 years. I think Clyborne park might have been the last Pulitzer winner to win Best Play. Oftentimes the Pulitzer winner if they're nominated for play, they won like for their Off Broadway round and then they come back a year or two later and like the buzz has gone bloom. Yeah. Like between Riverside and Crazy Cost of Living. But no, I think that Liberation winning while it's running really helps it, especially since it's. It was really well liked, but it is closed. And I think that, you know, I think it just helps their momentum for sure. I think if anything were to beat it, I personally think it would be Ballisters.
- [163:10]
A
Wouldn't that be wild?
- [163:12]
B
Yeah. And Ballisters, I think is an awesome play. It doesn't. And it deals with big issues like Liberation, but deals within a much more satirical, I think, digestible way. And I know some people who were kind of miffed by how messy Liberation was as a play in terms of what it does with timeline and what it does with the fourth wall. I really liked that. I thought that that made it actually more interesting and less sort of like, like After School Special. But some people like the After School Special of it all. But no, I think it's. I'm talking too much. I think It. It's. I think it's just Liberation. Not at all.
- [163:43]
A
I asked. Please.
- [163:45]
B
I know, but on a podcast. I'm on my sec. In. Right in front of my salad. I'm just. I'm on my second coffee. Whatever. Yeah, I think. I think Liberation's the Agatha and the
- [163:56]
A
Ballisters he wrote really recently. Right. Like, this was like. It was like. Like quick, quick, quick. So I feel like. Like, to have written something that quick, get it up so quick and then win would be fun. Like, just like a. It's like a runaway train of just like an idea in the right time, in the right place.
- [164:16]
B
Yeah. I think if he had not won two Tonys for Kimberly Akimbo, there would be a bit more of a push for it to win, to finally get David Lindsay a bear, a Tony Award. But because he has the two for Kimberly Akimbo, I don't think that that narrative is going to hold as much water.
- [164:36]
A
Does he have the play and the musical? Is that what it is?
- [164:39]
B
No, just the musical. He has. He. Because he went for book and for score with Janine.
- [164:44]
A
Oh. Because did he do lyrics? How do I not remember that? That's wild.
- [164:51]
B
David Lindsay Aber is secretly a really fucking good lyricist. Yeah. I love his lyrics for Shrek.
- [164:56]
A
I was gonna say track, for sure.
- [164:58]
B
Yeah.
- [164:59]
A
Oh, that's fun.
- [165:01]
B
Yeah, he's. He's real good, but. Yeah.
- [165:03]
C
So he has fidelity.
- [165:05]
B
Oh, yeah. He did do high fidelity.
- [165:07]
A
Did he?
- [165:07]
B
Wait, did you write the book? Just the book, yeah. Because Amanda Green did the lyrics. Yes. I hate my brain. So here's the. Okay, final category. It's not necessarily as, like, headline grabbing, as musical or whatever, but I actually think it's the most interesting revival of a play. We have Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman, Becky Shaw, no surprises there. Every brilliant thing. That was a surprise that kind of came out of left field for me. Fallen Angels, not a surprise, but I. I wasn't quite sure it was going to happen. And then Oedipus. Absolutely no surprise. I. I do think this falls down to Salesman and Oedipus. But before I say that, I mean, I'm happy Becky Shaw is in here. I'm glad that that show is getting more recognition. I wish it had done a little bit better today, but ultimately, I think the two most important things, Alden and the production itself, are recognized. Fallen Angels is a fun little one. I think the play's kind of like a delightful little nothing, and the production doesn't really make it any better other than just Sort of tightening it up. But it is, but it is just a really nice, fun time. And then every brilliant thing is like a really lovely community building exercise. But I just, as a. When we're talking about theater and playwriting and art, I'm just like, Marjorie Prime. Guys, come on. You got June and Danny in there. Just go the extra mile.
- [166:29]
A
Come on. Right. Yeah. I think that's interesting. I wonder what the thought process was with that. Yeah, maybe, just maybe the, the votes just got spread so thin because there's so many great options. Yeah, I have no idea.
- [166:44]
B
It could be recency bias. Every Brilliant Thing is running. I mean, other than Oedipus. The rest of these guys are running right now.
- [166:51]
A
Yeah, that's fair.
- [166:53]
B
Yeah. And Oedipus, no Joe Turner, which is a bit of a surprise.
- [166:56]
A
Yeah, I was surprised, but I'm not a surprise.
- [166:58]
B
Yeah, I, I, as I said, I wasn't in love with it, but I kind of had it on there just for being open recently. It got reviewed really well. And when I was seeing all the, like, the below the line nominations, I was like, oh, I think, I think this might happen. But then ultimately it didn't. Thoughts on. On this category, y'?
- [167:18]
A
All? No, I think it's great. In my perfect world, Oedipus takes it. But I know because it's the one that's closed, that's probably the least likely thing to happen. But I don't know. Stranger Things.
- [167:31]
B
Yeah. Yeah, Stranger Things foreshadow. I do think that if it's not Salesman, it is Oedipus. I think it has it over. I mean, first of all, of these five, only Salesmen and Oedipus have director nominations, which is a huge indicator of. Yeah. 1,000% of the temperature. Yes. And also, you know, if someone's ever kind of on the fence of where to vote for, they will sometimes go like, well, you know, we are looking at this director. So I have to. Because when you are looking at the nominations and you're voting, you are taking into account, okay, Robert Ick's direction and so and so's acting like that all helps you with revival. Whereas Becky Shaw, you know, you're only really allowed to think about Alden when it comes to voting somewhere else. Fallen Angels, Kelly and Rose in the design. Every brilliant thing, Daniel. So because there are so many other elements of Salesman and Oedipus that voters have to take into account, I do think that helps those shows. Cases for voters voting for them for revival. Yeah. I mean, RIP proof. I'm glad that that it's on Broadway. I'm glad that AO's taken a swing. RIP Art. You made, you made, you recouped. I'm solely talking about the people that blanked today. Call me Izzy. Jean Smart, you will always be famous, but we're happy that Hacks is back on tv. Beaches, we were happy that Vosk is opening a original show and getting a lead performance. Kelly Barrett, you will always look like Betty Gilpin to me, and I mean that with the highest accomplishment.
- [168:59]
A
Aren't you the one that said you want them in Sideshow Together? Yeah, you're right.
- [169:03]
B
Yeah. I just watched that show. I'm like, that's Betty Gilpin. Almost Queen of Versailles. I will always sing Caviar Dreams now that I have it in a key that I can sing. It's. I like that song a lot. And then Mamma Mia, you'll always make me happy. Here we go again.
- [169:20]
A
Here we go again.
- [169:21]
C
I didn't realize that was the hat. I'm wearing the Mamma Mia. Metallica hat.
- [169:27]
B
Will. Rachel, now that we've come, we've come through all of these nominees, how are we feeling about this upcoming Tonys? What are we most. What categories are we most excited to see? Shake Up?
- [169:40]
A
I mean, I can't wait to see what's taking musical that's always so huge. I don't know. I think it was an interesting year in the sense that there were less sort of across the board, which somehow made it, I don't know, more interesting to see who was actually going to get nominated. Because I feel like in years past, especially last year, with how many musicals we had, it truly was like anything could happen and kind of did. And just with. With fewer options this year, it was interesting to see, like, what really did break through and where and when and how. So I'm excited. We definitely have to go and see at least. At the very least, the. The revivals that we're missing for sure. So I can have, like, a really. A really full. What am I?
- [170:40]
B
Perspective.
- [170:41]
A
Yeah, perspective. Thank you. Perspective of what's going on. And then I would like to get to the plays as well. I just don't know if we're gonna have time. But anyway, Tay, you'll figure it out.
- [170:51]
B
It's fine. Yeah, Yeah.
- [170:51]
A
Y. We're working girls at night, so it's tough. I don't know. How do you feel, Will?
- [171:01]
C
I'm excited to see how best featured actress in a play turns out because I'm like. I'm excited to be, like, who's gonna be. It's fun to. It's fun when it's competitive. I'm looking forward to that.
- [171:19]
B
You know what I'm looking forward to?
- [171:21]
C
Best music.
- [171:21]
A
And we didn't talk about this at all. I'm excited Pink's hosting. I know that's controversial. I'm excited that Pink's hosting because. Because Pink cares. And I would rather a famous person who's enthusiastic about theater host than almost anybody else. So that's fine. Just.
- [171:40]
B
Oh, yeah. When it was announced, it was. She'll get people to watch. It was such an out of left field announcement that it took me about 48 hours to have it settle in. But I do. I mean, I. I love her. I think she's talented and smart and funny, which is all things you want for a host. I mean, I was not even sure about Cynthia last year. I was like, is Cynthia gonna be funny? And she ends it up.
- [172:01]
A
It was great.
- [172:02]
B
Yeah, she was. She did a great job. So I don't know. I feel like. I think Pink's gonna have a lot of fun ideas. I don't need the Tonys to be the MTV Movie Awards or anything like that. I just, I need it to. I need it to be exciting for theater fans and I needed to breed more theater fans. That's all I wanted to do. And I think that Pink can help with that. There's nothing wrong with loving something open heartedly.
- [172:25]
A
You know, she just bought, I think like a townhouse in New York because her daughter wanted to be closer to theater. That's the.
- [172:33]
B
What a fucking queen.
- [172:34]
A
That's the kind of energy I want. I was like, you know, talk to your mother. Don't talk to me. I'm excited. She's. Oh, stuff. So there's that. I'm excited to tune in to see Pink host the Tony Awards.
- [172:45]
B
I'm excited to see what performances we're gonna do. I'm imagining. I'm imagining Ragtime's gonna do make him hear you. Or maybe, fuck it, maybe they'll do new music and he'll do this era Come down to me.
- [172:57]
C
I could see that.
- [172:58]
A
I mean, if nothing else, they'll do
- [173:00]
B
it as a bit, 1000%.
- [173:02]
A
With him and Sarah Chase being nominated. I'm just saying if they're not going to do it as the performance, they'll definitely do it as a bet.
- [173:13]
B
They'll definitely do it as a bet with. Yeah. Josh Henry and Sarah Chase Jellicobal. Since we don't have Emma Sophia nominated for Skimble Shanks I say honor that and have them do Skimble Shanks as their Tony performance. That's my big one. Rocky Hart. Okay, I'll say this. I actually think that the best number they have in terms of performance and staging is over at the Frankenstein place. It's so fun and well done, and I would love for them to do that, but they probably won't. They'll probably do Time Warp and then Fallen Angels. I think Fallen Angels should do a bit. I think Kelly and Rose need to do some version of their getting progressively drunker scene. Constantly trying to answer the phone. Kelly grabbing Rose's dress and Rose not knowing that Kelly's grabbed it and walking and. And Kelly getting dragged over the couch and onto the stage. It's just like fun, fun, fun, fun. Gilded Age. Wishes they could do that for her. They wish.
- [174:09]
A
And maybe someday, someday, now that her
- [174:12]
B
character is fully divorced and free, she'll get drunk and get dragged over a couch. Yeah.
- [174:17]
A
We should all be so lucky.
- [174:19]
B
We should all be so lucky. I'm really excited for this. Have you guys made your Tony plans yet? Do you know what you're gonna do?
- [174:26]
A
I'm working, so. I am. I am, informally. It's not like, really an announcement or anything, but I, as Rachel, not as the theater lovers, am working the Tonys this year.
- [174:44]
B
Well, fuck my drag.
- [174:47]
A
So guess who's back in the house?
- [174:50]
B
Heels click, clack in the back. Yeah. That's phenomenal. Fantastic.
- [174:54]
A
Too much to like what I'm doing, but I am. I'm in. I'm formally working, but as me, not as the theater lovers. It's like a separate entity.
- [175:04]
B
Yes. If Alden needs a seat warmer for him, you know, you know where to call.
- [175:09]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah. I got your number. Yeah.
- [175:13]
B
That's really exciting. Congrats. I'm really. I'm really.
- [175:16]
A
We'll see how it goes. I'm excited about the work, so it's fun.
- [175:20]
B
As long as it's about the work. Well, well, guys, this has been amazing. Where can people find you if you want them to find you?
- [175:28]
A
You want to take it, Will, we
- [175:30]
C
are on Instagram, heater, Erlovers. We sell merch@thetheaterlovers.com. we sell a lot of things that look like other things.
- [175:45]
A
Like Will's hat right now.
- [175:46]
C
Like my hat right now that says Mamma Mia. It looks like the Metallica logo,
- [175:53]
A
the
- [175:53]
C
Seinfeld logo, but it says Sondheim. It's very niche, and it's gonna make someone on the train go.
- [175:58]
B
Wait, what?
- [175:59]
A
At your shirts, platforms, you can find US Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, which you might be watching right now. Threads, Facebook, if that's your jam. And then shortly, we're gonna be on substack, so look out for that.
- [176:16]
B
Excited for you guys.
- [176:16]
A
Thank you. You. Yes, y'. All.
- [176:19]
B
If you want to follow me, I am on Instagram at Matt Coplick. Usual spelling. If you like the podcast, give us a nice 5 star rating or review. We had a whole slew of them recently and now we've been drying up. So y', all, come on, give me. Give me a couple more reviews to read via the light in the Piaza Overture. You can also give us a rating on Spotify. You can join us on YouTube. We've been increasing our viewership on that, which is really exciting. We have the substack, the Discord. You can join either of those if you so choose. There's something else. Oh. Our next live show, June 1st, which is a Monday night at Green Room 42, the slightly early Tony Awards show. We are. I'm like, two days past our last show, but I'm giving myself, like another 24 hours, and then I'm going to start planning this June show. Get your tickets for that. It's gonna be fucking fun.
- [177:06]
A
Will.
- [177:07]
B
Rachel.
- [177:07]
A
Yes.
- [177:08]
B
You know the drill. We close out with a diva. I'm sure you diva. We got it. Yeah. Who do you want our diva to be today?
- [177:17]
A
You know, what if we did a Jessica Vosk? Is she too. Is she too contemporary? Or should we go further back in the archives?
- [177:29]
B
No, she's relevant. We might as well honor her since she didn't get her nomination today. So, yeah, let's let the Vosk have a moment in the thumb. Yeah. But not Lea Michele. I can't tell if Rachel's frozen or she just. Oh, I think Rachel froze. I think I froze. Rachel. Okay, we're gonna close out with Jessica Vosk. I'm gonna close this out now before anything else goes wrong. Rachel, I love you. Will. I love you. Thank you for supporting us, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. And take it away, Jessica. Bye.
- [178:00]
A
Past the thinking Past the breathing Think past the beating of my heart it will all fade away But e. It all fades away it all fades away.