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- [00:00]
Kelsey Watts
Hi, I'm Ariana Grande.
- [00:02]
Matt Koplik
Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit BPM FM to discover more.
- [00:13]
Kelsey Watts
I'm ready for my life to change. ABC Tonight, American Idol returns. Give it your all. Good luck.
- [00:20]
Matt Koplik
Come out with a golden ticket.
- [00:21]
Kelsey Watts
Let's hear it.
- [00:22]
Matt Koplik
This is Imma.
- [00:25]
Kelsey Watts
I've never seen anything like it. And a new chapter begins. You're going to Hollywood. Carrie Underwood Wood joins Lionel Richie, Luke Bryan and Ryan Seacrest on American Idol season premiere tonight, 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu. Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results, terms and conditions apply. You've got a good heart, but I know it changes a restless tide. Untameable. Hello, all you theater lovers, both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And this is a bonus episode we got with a wonderful new queen of the Broadway. You might know her from her work on TikTok or the Instagrams or the Voice. Yes, the Voice. Fantastic. But you probably will know. Sorry. You'll probably catch her now on Broadway as Jane Seymour in six. Please welcome to the Breakdown, Kelsey Watts. Hi, Kelsey.
- [02:17]
Matt Koplik
Hi. How are you?
- [02:19]
Kelsey Watts
I'm good. I just garbled that entire intro, but that's okay.
- [02:23]
Matt Koplik
That was impressive. Honestly, that was a very impressive intro.
- [02:27]
Kelsey Watts
Thank you very much. I. When we rebranded the podcast and joined the network, I was like, you know what? I'm not going to tell people that I'm the most famous that they have, because I'm not. They've got Kerry Butler on this program on this network, but I am the most opinionated. And then it stuck. And then, I won't lie, the we got more popular, but I kept the moniker because some things just stick, you know?
- [02:51]
Matt Koplik
Love it so, so much. That's so funny. Oh, my God.
- [02:56]
Kelsey Watts
Kelsey. We're going to do sort of like an hour deep dive on six, a show that you are Pretty knee deep in right now.
- [03:03]
Matt Koplik
One might say 100%. Yeah. Was. Was drowning now. Now, slowly but surely feeling now maybe it's back down to the knees. And we're like, okay, we're feeling a little more settled. This is great.
- [03:14]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah, we're. We're waiting in the water. Jaws hasn't fully come up and grabbed us from the ocean. We're like, we're surviving.
- [03:19]
Matt Koplik
Yes, we are surviving now.
- [03:21]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah, we're making. We're making it to the end credits now. So I ask everyone when we do our little deep dives. Sorry. And also, guys, if you hear any crumpling, that's a tissue. As I just got out of the shower, and I am sweating like. Like Al pacino in a 70s movie. Just like, it's. It's. It's wet up in here. Speaking of drowning. Speaking of drowning. But so I do. I asked two questions. One for the uncultured fucks out there. Kelsey, what is six about? And then the follow up is, how did six enter your chat?
- [03:50]
Matt Koplik
Oh, my gosh, That's a hefty question. Okay, for those that don't know six, the musical is about King Henry VII's ex wives. So I have learned more about history in the past, like, two months than I have in my entire life. I think, like, all of my history teachers in, like, middle school and high school were all, like, coaches, and I didn't learn anything. We just, like, filled out packets and stuff. So I've learned so much more. These just in this musical, basically, it's a concert. These six wives are competing to see who had the worst life. And it's, like, very breaking the fourth wall. We interact with the audience. It's an hour and a half of pure intensity. And in your face, Beyonce concert kind of vibes, like, super fun. And. Yeah, it's. It's epic. It is an epic show.
- [04:45]
Kelsey Watts
I've known a few people who've been in it sort of in and out, either tour, Broadway swings, Replacements, whatever, and they all have said it's a blast. But it is no joke.
- [04:54]
Matt Koplik
Yes, it is deceivingly difficult. Like, I've never seen the show, like, in, like. I mean, I've seen clips, but I've never actually seen the show. And so about three weeks into the rehearsal process, we got to go see the queens that were in it at the time. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is insane. This is like. This is crazy. Now I understand why you're out of breath the entire time. Moving. Yeah, it really is. It's A lot. It's a lot, but it's a freaking blast. I love it.
- [05:26]
Kelsey Watts
I'm so glad. How long have you been. How into your run are you right now?
- [05:30]
Matt Koplik
Two weeks.
- [05:31]
Kelsey Watts
Two weeks. Okay. So, I mean, it's. Honestly, it's all just uphill from here.
- [05:35]
Matt Koplik
Yes, exactly. We're going to keep climbing.
- [05:39]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah, you find the spots where you're like, okay, I can take, like, two seconds to breathe here. Oh, this is the part that, like, is more of a jump scare. This part's more of a breeze. And yeah, as you get more comfy wumpy, you can just sort of enjoy the joy. So then how did 6lamusical enter your chat, Your group chat.
- [05:58]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. So crazy enough. So fun fact, I've never done musical theater professionally. I have not done a musical since high school, which was a very, you know, I mean, it's high school, so. And I didn't come from one of those, like, really prestigious high schools where they put on these musicals that look like Broadway productions. Like, you know, west Texas. Like, super fun. So I was on a showboat gig, and this lady came up to me after the show because, you know, as singers, entertainers, artists, we do whatever job we can, whether that's bartending, corporate gig show. Like, you just want a paycheck. So this lady comes up to me after the show to meet and greet and hands me her card and says, hi, I'm casting for a new Broadway show, and I really would love to chat with you. Like, would love to just hang out. At the time, I had no idea that it was Roberta Duchek, the musical director for six, but it also worked on so many other Broadway shows. Did Les Mis, the movie. Like, I had no idea. Okay. I text her the same day, and I was like, hey, girl, what's up? Like, this song's cool. This song's also cool. I like this one. Like, yeah, just let me know what you need. Like, not knowing at all. Okay. Then pandemic happened. Life was bananas, but Roberta and I built a relationship. And even while I was going through the voice, like, would talk consistently through it, kind of, like do some vocal stuff while I was there. And then in 2021, went to audition. Like, officially. They asked me to come to a callback, and so I went to Chicago and then went to New York, and I got cut. And I was like, wait, why? What I do me again, knowing nothing about musical theater Professionally. Love musical theater, but I know nothing about the process. Well, so me and just being who I am, I emailed the casting director, Peter Van Damme, who's with Tara Ruben at the time. And I was like, hey man, what's up? Do you have like specific feedback, like things that I can work on? And he was like, I would love for you to work on your acting. And I go, honestly, that's totally fair. I've never done that. So let's. Yeah. I was like, so do you have anybody that you would recommend for me to work with? And he said, well, there's this guy named Benjamin Shaw who's in New York. Gave me his contact information and I started working with Benji. Have been working with him for the past, like since then. He's amazing. Absolutely adore him. And they brought me, they called me again in 2022 to into new York and I was like, okay, cool. And made it to the finals where they send your stuff to the UK for what? And that was for the tour at the time, for whatever reason, didn't get cast. And then in 2023, it was kind of just like a year each year I got. I was like, I got a call like once a year. Okay, cool. They brought me in for a boot camp, like a six intensive boot camp where there was me and probably like 28 other girls, like something like that. And it was like three or four girls per part. And for a week long we just did deep dives into the movement, the dancing choreo, into the music, into the acting. And honestly, I didn't expect anything to come from it. Like, I really just was like, okay, I just got a free trip to New York and got some of the most incredible education that people pay so much money for. Like, what an amazing experience. I'm so grateful, so thankful. And I expected that to be it. And then the next year got a call, had. I mean, had her. Hadn't heard from him since. I mean, I talk to Roberta all the time, but not about six and got a call like mid 2024. And they were like, hey, we know you're doing a lot. We're considering, we're considering you for an opening that we have on Broadway in January. Is it something you'd be interested in? I was like, duh. What do you mean would I like duh? Of course I'm interested. And so I found out officially in October of 2024.
- [09:55]
Kelsey Watts
That's amazing.
- [09:56]
Matt Koplik
I got cast and I was like, what? So this has been like a process. Like a process. It wasn't just like, oh, they found me on Instagram and like, here I am. Yeah.
- [10:04]
Kelsey Watts
Which I'm sure a lot of people would think or, or would assume it's like, oh, you blow up on, on social media. And I, so I also say this is where I'm showing my butt here. I don't have, I don't have the tick tock because I am actually 94 and it's very confusing to me.
- [10:20]
Matt Koplik
LOL.
- [10:21]
Kelsey Watts
So, so when this opportunity came up, I was like, well, let me like look. And I, so I go to Instagram because that makes sense to me. And luckily you are on Instagram because you know what to do. You understand how this works, whereas I do not. And, but I was watching, I was like, oh, like she's got a following and she sounds amazing. And so I do think someone like me would, would come to that at face value and go, oh, she blew up in N6 caster. But no, as you're saying, like this was a years long thing and you know, you did a lot of work on it. I also want to say props to you, but also sort of like not warning to people listening, but like it's not super taboo to reach out to casting directors to ask for feedback. You did the absolute correct way to do it, which was like, thank you so much. Any specific feedback that I can work on. And like that, like just like not anything like what, what is it about me? But like what can I work on? And then like props, thank you so much. Go on and you do it. I think that is, it's professional, it's personal and I think a lot of people respect that. There are definitely people who, who do the Glenn Close and Fatal Attraction version of that, where it's like, so what can I work on? And by the way, I know where you and your mother live.
- [11:32]
Matt Koplik
It's like, oh, no, no, don't do that.
- [11:34]
Kelsey Watts
No, don't do that, don't do that.
- [11:35]
Matt Koplik
That's a really bad idea.
- [11:37]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah, no, exactly. But I think that it's, it's always good to ask for feedback and, but also if you're asking for feedback, be prepared for whatever someone has to say. Because, because if you, if you're genuinely asking, it might be a harsh truth, but it's the truth you need to hear to get better.
- [11:54]
Matt Koplik
It's. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And that's genuinely what I wanted to know because it's an industry. I mean, I've been in the music industry for a while, but as far as the musical theater aspect of it, you know, I'm new and so I was like, I want to understand what is it that I can work on in this craft to make me better. So that way, the next time you see me, you can clearly see that I've put in the work.
- [12:13]
Kelsey Watts
Absolutely. And for something like six, which I think is actually a great transition to homecoming for you back into musical theater, because it is so much pop and different styles of contemporary music in a musical theater setting. What are some of the musical theater lessons you've been receiving from either, like, the boot camp or just doing it on Broadway right now?
- [12:36]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I would say I've been very blessed to work professionally in music for a while, whether that be tours, BGVs for people, studio sessions, my own stuff, my own shows. So I'm used to working for directors, musical directors, you know, things like that, working with other people to kind of gain just insight from different areas. So my goal going into any process is always to learn as much as I possibly can, to ask the questions, to make sure I'm like, okay, clearly, if this note is being given to the group, I'm probably in that. So, like, tell me specifically, like, I'm the one that wants to know. Like, hey, okay, is my arm this way? Is it this way? Does this. Do I need to be doing this? You know? So I have loved learning specifically from the choreographers and the people giving, like, in our directors, our director and associate director, Galia and Asmaret, they've. I loved working one on one with them because they were like, they'll give constructive criticism. I can't even call it criticism. It's just feedback. Like, yeah, you know, but also giving me new notes and different tips and, like, also encouragement being like, hey, your instincts are really spot on. Maybe just try it like this. Or maybe just try it like this, you know? So I think a big part of this show was learning how to learn the show, you know, like, watching other people who. You know, three of the other girls that are in the cast currently have been on Broadway before, and so they've been in other shows. They made their principal debut in this show, but they've been in that world for a while, so it was cool to be able to watch them be like, okay, well, if they're also struggling with this, then it's really okay that I am too. Or, well, they got this really quickly. So is it something I need to adjust? You know? But the entire cast, and honestly, the whole company, I'm so blessed because they're all so kind and so genuine and, like, there's no ego, there's no drama ever. Like, honest to God, like, They're all just really that awesome. So talk about the best kind of intro into Broadway. For me to have a group like this, that's like, it's okay to mess up. It's okay to make mistakes. Like, it's amazing.
- [14:55]
Kelsey Watts
So Jane Seymour is your character.
- [14:57]
Matt Koplik
It is indeed.
- [14:59]
Kelsey Watts
The third wife, the one that he truly loved. Rude.
- [15:02]
Matt Koplik
Truly loved her.
- [15:03]
Kelsey Watts
Yes. So rude. But so I am a homosexual nerd. So I grew up being super into Anne Boleyn. Like, she just fascinated me ever since I was in middle school. And what got me into six was because I try not to see shows and hear the score beforehand, but due to a little thing called Covid, it was difficult not to get into six and not hear some of the score. And, like, the one thing I allowed myself to listen to was don't lose your head. And it's when I knew I was going to like the show because I was like, oh, all the things that they cram into a four minute pop song is freaking incredible.
- [15:41]
Matt Koplik
It's brilliant. I'm like, what?
- [15:43]
Kelsey Watts
Oh, yeah, it's so good. So good. But so for something like Jane, you're talking about choreography and physicality. Is there something in the choreography in six that informs your performance as Jane or things that they. Easter eggs that they maybe include to sort of show your dynamic in the group?
- [16:01]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. So one thing I really love about the show is that for each song, we're actually not just being our character, our character morphs into something. So, like, for Eragon, we become her ladies in waiting. Being like, yo, like what you think? And Henry, like, you're insane. Like, we become like Beyonce backup dancers. You're in your head. We're like the Gaggle goose of, like, gossipers being like, oh, my gosh, what's she going to say? You know? And then in Cleave Song, we're like, hyping her up the whole time. Like, we're like her posse, you know? So it's in Howard's song were the the watchers were the observers. So, like, instead of it being, oh, this is Jane Seymour backing her up in this song, we become different aspects of. Of the other queens in their world. But I will say, going through the script specifically and watching Jane's arc, I think she's one of the characters that actually starts somewhere and ends somewhere completely different. Like, I, when I first was introduced to her, I'm not gonna lie, I wasn't the biggest fan. I was like, what is her issue? Like, why is she like this? And then I was clearly very Quickly hit over the head and like, Kelsey, you're not actually looking at it correctly. Like, you're missing this entire thing. And one thing I love about her is she goes from being this, like, yes, she's kind of like awkward, but doesn't embrace her awkwardness. And then in her song Heart of Stone, she really, like, finds her voice and allows herself to be vulnerable. And then she like loses her shit, like halfway through the show, like during this whole argument. And then at the end of the show, she's like, oh my gosh, I'm awkward and I'm weird and that's okay. Like, let's rock it up, you know? So she has this entire process of, like, development through the show, which I really didn't realize. But honestly there's. It's really the little Easter eggs kind of throughout the scenes more than the, the songs. Like, if you'll, like, if you, if you and any of the listeners come see the show, you'll be able to kind of see, like, if you watch the ensemble, like whenever the other queen is doing their thing, we all have very different, like, personalities. And then the second the song starts, we like whip into something else. So it is, it is very cool to watch that. Yeah.
- [18:27]
Kelsey Watts
How did you approach Heart of Stone when you first went in for the show versus how you approached it for Broadway?
- [18:36]
Matt Koplik
Oh, gosh. So, man. So differently. Yeah. The amount of things I wish I'd known then, just in. Just in general. So when I first came into audition, I mean, you gotta look at it where I did not know what I was actually auditioning for. I did not understand the gravity or the type of character development that was required for just this process, you know? Um, so I went and I tried to relate to the song in a couple of different ways, but I tried to relate to it surface level. I'm like, I don't have a child. I don't have any, like, kids that are around me all the time. So I don't have that kind of connection that I can pull from. So when I was first introduced to her, I was like, I can't relate to this. Like, like, what is this? You know? So I guess I'll just try to sing my face off in this song and hope to God it's great. And I think that was honestly one of my mistakes is because, yes, I can sing my face off, but like, musical theater is so much more than singing. You have, like, you are full blown acting, but not in a dramatic way. Like in a genuine way. Like, acting is acting. And Good acting is good acting. And so you have to find a. Like, a way to relate to this character where it's still, like, genuine to you. So at the beginning, I didn't do that. I tried to, but I didn't fully understand how. And over the last. I mean, I guess in the boot camp is when I really started to be able to understand because they had also brought me in for Par at the beginning, too. So I was juggling. I forgot to mention that I was juggling the two different characters of, like, Par and Seymour, and, like, just kind of trying to learn the song and be able to do the monologues and all of that. So I didn't really deep dive as much as I have now. Obviously, in the boot camp, I was just called for Seymour. They were like, nope, this is. This is who you are. You are this character. I was like, okay, great. And whenever I was cast as her, they sent us a docu series to watch in addition to, like, pieces of books to read. And so I started really doing a lot of research while I was on tour with the Trans Siberian Orchestra for November and December. So while I was on this tour, I was doing a lot of reading in my free time, a lot of, like, listening. And when I started to learn more about Jane and who she was as a human, it gave me a completely different perspective of how to portray her in the song Heart of Stone. So I was like, you know, whenever you, like, see a character and you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm so offended because I feel so attacked by this person. Like, I am that person. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it was like that. So I'm sitting here going, okay, well, let me learn more about her. And she was clearly the third wife, all right, the one that he truly loved. Like, that's, like, the popular thing. But she had watched. She was a lady in waiting to Berlin. Like, so she watched this whole thing go down, and she watched the other two queens basically be exiled and killed for, like, for no reason, really. And she had to go into it very calculated. So she wasn't quiet. She wasn't passive. She had to make a choice, which I think is honestly way stronger, in my opinion, to have a controlled response instead of a reaction, especially with something as high stakes as, like, her life. She went into this and was like, all right, I have to make an active choice. I have to choose to truly love him. I have to choose to be obedient in that day and age because you got to remember, like, put yourself in that. In Those days, shoes, like women did not have a voice, like, that was not a thing. So you. She had to be really smart in the way that she lived her life. But she also, before, before she actually entertained his advances, he would send her gifts and she would send them back and said, no, like, until you're divorced, I'm not, I'm not doing that. Like, I'm not going to be like them. So she had separated herself from these other two women from the get go. And so then as I started to put myself in her shoes, like, what would it feel like to actually be in that kind of a relationship? Which is actually incredibly abusive. But you, it's either be in this relationship or you die. Like your life like you do. You didn't have a choice back then, you know, so she made a decision to be really strong and she had to be very particular about when she was and was not allowed to feel or to show how she felt. And so going into Heart of Stone, which is a very long winded explanation for how I address this song, like, she discovers that she's allowed to finally feel in this song. And going into it, she looks at the other queens on stage and it's almost like the other queens give her permission. Like, yes, okay. We may not understand, like, why you think you had it bad, but you, you also have feelings and we have a reason to listen.
- [23:42]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah.
- [23:42]
Matt Koplik
So she, you know, I also don't like, show feelings. Well, I didn't always used to. And then I got married and I was like, oh my gosh, why do I have so many feelings now? This is crazy. But like, going into this song, it's like, okay, you have, you have to talk to this man who's really does not listen well. And by the end of it, you know this, you know the big yeah in the song, which is such like a massive moment vocally. It's also her just like insane release of emotion of finally being able to be like, oh, here's how I feel. Like, it's like years and years of things just bubbling up, bubbling about, bubbling up and like letting it go. So it's honestly a heck of a process to start the show in such high hype. Like, whoa, let's go, let's go, let's go. And then you come off a balance song. You're like, yeah, this is great. And then it's like, okay, emotion. So it really is a very. It's a crazy process and it's very different being in it than just auditioning for it for sure.
- [24:45]
Kelsey Watts
For sure. Yeah. There was a man who we all might know. His name was Stephen Sondheim. He. He talked about a musical that he once co wrote called Do I Hear a Waltz? And he said, oh, the real big problem with that show is that our leading lady, her emotions were too bottled up so she couldn't sing. And I'm like, steve, I love you and you are brilliant, but that is a dumb take because I've always felt that some of the greatest characters are the ones who do bottle up their emotions because they just can't. They can't handle it. And I mean, the example I always tell people, and I have a new one now. I always talk about the TV show Sex and the City. Familiar?
- [25:24]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
- [25:25]
Kelsey Watts
Wonderful, wonderful. It's the episode My Motherboard Myself, when Miranda's mom dies and Samantha just refuses to process how she's feeling about it. And then at the very end of the episode, she does. But did you see Honora, the new Oscar winner, Anora?
- [25:40]
Matt Koplik
I haven't seen it, but I did watch the Oscars and I have to go find it now. I have to be able to watch it.
- [25:45]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. So it's still on theaters, I think you can, you can do. You can rent it on Amazon or maybe even something like that. Yeah. But so without giving too much away about what the movie is, and the movie is, I will say, lighter than a lot of people realize, I think. They promise, they go, oh, God, is this going to be like the most devastating movie of all time? Like, no, it's. It's weirdly quite comedic half the time, but, but she does go through a very. What's overall like a harrowing 24 hour period. Just in terms, like, it's just exhausting. Like, she basically spends 24 hours straight awake, like, searching for her, you know, recent husband and she's with these Russian bodyguards. And like, just like, it's just a very exhausting second half of the movie for her. And she, she has to go on a plane to go to Vegas and like, like all these things and how she perceived everything, her reality up until that moment. She now has like, you know, re. Re readjust and all that stuff. And the last scene in the movie ultimately is because she keeps sort of like fighting off the emotions and fighting off understanding and fighting off the emotions. And then like the very, very last scene, like the last moment is her kind of letting in everything that's happened in the last 24 to 36 hours and just letting it crash over her. And it's both like, sad but also it's a breakthrough. And. Yeah. And like a moment like that for Jane Seymour, I think is wonderful of. I mean, as you said, it's a time when women really had no autonomy. They had to be very clever about how they could find any sort of independence. Which has always my gripe. When people try to put 21st century goggles on, you know, a 9th century or 10th century person.
- [27:22]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [27:24]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. I'm like. Like, it's every. It's just all so very different. And you have to kind of look at the world that existed and what did this person do to find any sense of power? And each of these women kind of find power in different ways. I mean, I would maybe say, like, the only one who doesn't is Howard, because she's just very tragic. But everyone else, like, they do find autonomy in some way. And I mean, and as you said with. With Henry, like, with Catherine Parr says, when Henry says it's you, then it's you. So it's not even. It's not a choice to marry him. But you can choose how you go about it.
- [28:01]
Matt Koplik
Billy, I beg to differ with you. How do you mean? You're the top.
- [28:03]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah.
- [28:05]
Matt Koplik
You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Estee.
- [28:16]
Kelsey Watts
Any vehicle can take you places, but why stop there? The Alfa Romeo Tonale combines luxurious Italian design and electrifying performance to make every mile a masterpiece and every arrival unforgettable. When precision meets instinct and power moves with purpose, you never have to day in Elaine. Experience a world without limits in the Alfa Romeo Tonale Plug In Hybrid. Tap the banner to learn more. Alfa Romeo is a registered trademark of FCA Group Marketing Spa.
- [28:45]
Matt Koplik
Used with permission.
- [28:49]
Kelsey Watts
You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first. Yeah, so I. That's why I've always loved that song. I think, as you said, many people will go, oh, it's the first ballad. Strap in. But it has a lot to say.
- [29:11]
Matt Koplik
It really does. I know, and I feel like I learned that along with the audience during the rehearsal process, you know, because I. If you look on, like, Tick tock Instagram, like, people ask me to sing ballads all the time. I have a voice that can do ballads, like, decently well, and that's what people ask for. And so I thought it was funny when I was like, okay, of course I have the ballot in the show. But I. I really think it's.
- [29:36]
Kelsey Watts
It.
- [29:36]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, like you said, it's so much deeper because it's this. It's a heck of a breakthrough. And she's, like, processing the whole time. It's not just like, hey, listen to me sing a big note. Honestly, you don't even sing a big note until, like, minute four of the song. Like, you really don't. So even though they're like, oh, it's the big ballad, I'm like, nah, not really.
- [29:56]
Kelsey Watts
It's a genuine build, which I appreciate, because a lot of modern musical theater writers are like, so we're gonna start big, and we're just gonna keep going bigger.
- [30:06]
Matt Koplik
And I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's. No.
- [30:08]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah.
- [30:08]
Matt Koplik
So I love that it almost, like, also gives the audience a break. Like, I feel like during Heart of Stone because you've just gone from ex wives to no way to don't lose your head, and it's like, just this, like, up. And then Heart of Stone also gives the audience a break to also process, like, what they're watching. Like, oh, okay. She's saying. She's saying. Now she's saying she's against, like. And it gives your ears a break too. You know what I mean?
- [30:34]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. What was. What was the lyric and Heart of Stone that you think really kind of. If there was a lyric that really kind of was your way into the song when you finally had that breakthrough or. Or a section or.
- [30:47]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I think the. The second verse is really. Is, I think, my favorite part of the song, honestly, because it's like, she's speaking. Actually, I'll just give it to you from my perspective instead of just Jane's perspective, because I think that's way more interesting. At least. At least for the sake of this podcast. If you want to know the show, then, like, cool. Then I will tell you what she is thinking in the show. But, you know, it's starting to give a little bit of a release, you know, Like, I think of a lot of different things through the song. I have a lot of different references that I pull from, whether that be, you know, the loss of my brother or the love that I have for my husband or different, like, difficult relationships that I've had in my life or, you know, what I'm called to do or where I'm supposed to be. And so there's a lot of that. But the second verse is, like, very much a slow lift up to where it's like, I'm gonna let it out. I'm gonna Let it out. But I can't. And it's. Whenever she says, you know, I mean those words, like when I say, you're the only one I've ever loved, I mean those words truthfully. But. There's a but there. Yes, I love you, but I know, like, without my son, like, you wouldn't love me. Like, it's very possible you wouldn't love me, like, the way that you do. And so I think for me, that's like a pivot, like a pivotal part of the song where she is like, yeah, like, I love you a whole lot, but I'm also not stupid, and I'm still having to control the way that I feel. But it, like, lets you see just a little bit of the emotion come up and you have to, like, take it right back down. So, yeah, for me, that's. That's probably the most. My favorite part of the song because it, like, gives you the little, like, glimpse into everything without, like, giving away the whole thing, you know?
- [32:35]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. I mean, it's. It's conditional love on both their parts, wouldn't you say?
- [32:39]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, absolutely.
- [32:41]
Kelsey Watts
What is. I. I won't go too far into this, Kelsey, because we've only just met, but my listeners have heard a lot of my own relationship history, and I have a review I got to read at the end of this episode that mentions this, but when to. When you sort of expose your heart to somebody only to sort of realize that the love they're bringing back, while it is genuine, is conditional. Yeah, I. The emotional mental whiplash you get from that is kind of intense because it makes you then second guess your own judgment. It makes you second guess your own heart.
- [33:16]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah.
- [33:17]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. Is there room in Heart of Stone for doubt on Jane Seymour's part? Or is she pretty? Or is she pretty meticulous in how she's trying to express or express her feelings throughout it. Is there. Is there a moment where she kind of gets any sort of self doubt for you?
- [33:35]
Matt Koplik
Honestly, I feel like the whole first chorus is a self doubt. I mean, because in. Yes. Okay, if you. If you, like, break down the lyrics. Okay. You know, you have the first part that's like, you've got a good heart, but I know it changes a restless, tight, untamable. You know, she's. You're having to, like, butter this guy up. You're like, okay, I know, I know. This is how it's like. If you're going in to talk to somebody who's, like, narcissistic, not in the trendy way like, in the clinic, like, in the actually, like, diagnosed way, you.
- [34:02]
Kelsey Watts
Know, like, which, to be fair, everyone is now acknowledging that we've overused the word, and we're now trying to be very specific when we use it.
- [34:09]
Matt Koplik
I know, I know. I'm like, y'all. Y'all, y'all. We can't. We can't just call everybody this. Like, that's not real.
- [34:14]
Kelsey Watts
Like, yeah, it's. It's. It's. It's not salt that you can just put on over your food.
- [34:19]
Matt Koplik
You cannot. You cannot. So that's why I say not in the trendy way. Like. Or if you. Let's not even use that word. Let's just say that somebody difficult.
- [34:25]
Kelsey Watts
Sure, let's.
- [34:26]
Matt Koplik
Let's say, like, just somebody difficult that you are talking to, and you have to, like, come at this in a way that they can hear. Like, if I'm talking to somebody that does not like to listen, I have to learn how to speak to them in a way that they will listen, that they can listen, you know? So that's how she's approaching this entire song. She's like, you've got a good heart, and I know it changes. I know. I know there's a lot of ups and downs. I know you got a lot of feelings. You know, you're going to arrest the time. Untable. And when I say that I knew a storm could come too, you know, you'd lift me higher, let me fall. It's like she's processing okay, you know? But then I took your hand Like I made the choice I promised I'd withstand any blaze you blew my way because something inside solidified and I knew I'd always stay. It's like, that's her choice. She made it. But that doesn't necessarily mean she's never doubted it. She's like, I just don't have a choice. Like, I. This is the choice that I made because I. I had to, you know? And then the whole first chorus for me as an actor is very like, you can build me up or tear me down. You can try, but I'm. Am I unbreakable? Like, am I? Like, am I? Yes, I am. You can do your best, but I'll stand the testicle. But you'll find I'm unshakable. It's almost like she's finding the words for the first time. Because if you think about it, she's never said this out loud.
- [35:45]
Kelsey Watts
Mm.
- [35:46]
Matt Koplik
These are the words that she's like, I. I think I'm gonna break. I Think I'm gonna break? Yeah, Yeah, I think I'm on. I don't think you can shake me that much, but, you know, and then, you know, the fires burned, the wind is blown, the water's dried. It's like, so all of the different elements, but stone is always gonna stay. And I think stone is misunderstood as just being hard or harsh. I think it just means steady. I think it just means firm, like a foundation.
- [36:14]
Kelsey Watts
Like, stone survives. Yep.
- [36:17]
Matt Koplik
Always. Yeah. Like. And so you. And honestly, the more. I had a friend tell me this the other day, like, if you put, like, a. Like a rough stone in water, and the water constantly goes over. Constantly goes over. It ends up being smooth, and it ends up like, refining you in a way, you know? So, like, people see Stone often as, oh, it's just hard. Oh, it's just because it's hard. She has a hard heart. Nah, man. Like, that's not it at all. And so I think she's really doubting herself the entire time until you get to chorus, too. And then it also comes back again during, like, we call it the middle eight during the. Soon I'll have to go, like, during that part, because then it's again, she's like, oh, crap, hold on. I. I'm never gonna see this. And so she makes another choice to be like, no, this is what you're gonna do. Because my love is set in stone, which I'm. I will forever and always be here, you know? So I 100 think that there's a lot of room for doubt, because in any normal human being, we have doubt in any kind of relationship, you know, even if it's a really, really healthy one. Because we're little. Because we're human beings.
- [37:26]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. Because. Because you're. You're dealing with. Even no matter how much you know the other person, they are still an unknowable entity, because they are not you. You'll never know exactly what they're thinking. Even in the most healthy, open relationships.
- [37:40]
Matt Koplik
100%.
- [37:41]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. And I think I appreciate you saying that about the chorus, because something that I think a lot of people also don't realize is there's no such thing as just. Well, sorry. In good writing, there's no. There's no such thing as just repetition for repetition's sake. Right. If a chorus repeats, there's a reason for it, and you have to make it different than the last chorus. So it's almost as if when you repeat the chorus, it's her. Now that she's found the words, it's like, well, I'm now doing my affirmation, and I'm gonna say it again, because I will keep saying it until it just becomes true.
- [38:14]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely.
- [38:15]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. And that's where you sort of gain the confidence. I appreciate that. I love that when you as a singer, when you're sort of guiding yourself through six, musically speaking. Yeah. Is. Are there times when you were. Are there pockets of the score where you're like, okay, I will get to the acting in a second, but first I got to think about how I'm just going to physically get here before the performance. Yes.
- [38:42]
Matt Koplik
Now, it's very. I won't use the word easy. I will now it's just, like, been trained through the rehearsal process for it to just come together.
- [38:54]
Kelsey Watts
Muscled in. It's been muscled in. Yeah.
- [38:56]
Matt Koplik
Yes. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been just like, this is just what you're doing. But before, no, I absolutely had to find it, because for now, for the show itself, like, for all the BGBs and things like that, I'm very used to singing and dancing at the same time, so that, for me, wasn't as difficult as I thought it was going to be. BGVs, I'm used to harmonies I'm used to. But going from such a high to then having to settle into my own song. Holy cow. That was new. That was like, okay, here we go. And, like, you don't have water on stage. You're not just, like, talking like, you don't get to give yourself a break. Like, it does not stop there. There is no, like, oh, hey, let me grab some water real quick before I, like, sing my face off. No, no, no, no. You just. You just go. So whenever I was working through it, fun fact, the. Yeah. The C sharp is on my break. It literally is my break. The Passaggio, if you will.
- [39:53]
Kelsey Watts
Oh, we. We've spoken of Passaggio on this podcast, baby.
- [39:57]
Matt Koplik
You go half a step up to a D. Solid. Half a step below. See? Solid fine. That's C sharp. So I actually had to be very specific with that note. I worked with Roberta a lot on it, and we couldn't figure out because it wasn't an issue of hitting the note or even sustaining it for me as a vocalist, I was very like, no, I want it to be clean. How do I make sure there's no extra gravel? Or if I have mucus that it's like, oh, like, that doesn't inhibit it. Like, where do I have to put it? And what we figured out is I have to Actually have to say yay. I have to yeah instead of yeah because yeah does not work for that note in that specific part of my voice. Now I go up to a fricking like, whistle note like twice in the song. That's how he's cool. Fine. Fine. But this. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. And I also figured out that gravity is my friend when it comes to my break specifically. So if I lean forward a little bit. Yes. It is also like emotionally emotive, but it helps that placement, like right in my nose, like in between my eyeballs. It helps that stay there sustained, which is really helpful. So I actually, I'll have to post them at some point. I took a couple of videos during my sessions with Roberta and I have that moment where we go. And so I was like, let me make sure it wasn't just a fluke.
- [41:24]
Kelsey Watts
No.
- [41:24]
Matt Koplik
Perfect. So it is like, yeah. It's figuring out where you're. Where you go in the song and then getting comfortable enough with that consistently to then not have to worry about trusting your body. Like you just know your body's going to do the right thing. And that does take a bit for sure.
- [41:40]
Kelsey Watts
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And as you said, there's no chance to break for yourself, to give yourself grace, to have the water, to have the breath. Is there a moment when you're doing the show early on where you can clock what kind of vocal day it's gonna be? Is there a moment you're like, okay, it felt this way. So I have to sort of adjust the rest of the show tonight because of how this went.
- [42:05]
Matt Koplik
It hasn't yet, but I will say I. So we don't have the half hour call until 6:30. Like let's say the show's at 7, 6:30. We're already supposed to be in tights and leotard, have wig prep done. Because at 6:30, that's whenever we are scheduled specific times to go to our dressers, to get in the costume, to go to hair, to get our wigs, like all of that jazz. So I normally get to the theater at like 4:30 so that I can vocally warm up, physically warm up, get all of my makeup done, not be in a hurry. And that's normally when I'll be able to tell if there's an issue. I would know then. I would really probably know when I wake up. But I'm obsessive about vocal health. So I'll steam at night. I have my little nebulizer that I'll use. This is disgusting. But I have this nasal rinse that. I literally just shoot it up and then below my nose and I'm like, okay, we're fine, we're clear. But like, as a vocalist, you don't have a choice. So I haven't had to adjust things yet in the show, but if I did, I would know before the show started just based on how my voice felt that day, and I would make the decision before the show started to alter something if I needed to.
- [43:19]
Kelsey Watts
For sure. Yeah, it's. I think it's more just because obviously, especially in a show like six, you can prep, you can steam, you can do all that stuff, but like the moment you're on stage and you can't go back off for any kind of support, sometimes things just sort of happen. The. The reference I always use is, and granted this is the 1970s when people had cocaine instead of steamers, but Patty. Patty LuPone always talks about an Evita. She knew what kind of show she was going to have based on the first 15 minutes when she would do My father's other family, we're middle class. And she was like, if that D came out, like, if that D came out free, I knew like I was good to go and it was going to be a pretty smooth sailing performance. She's like, but if it was a little rougher, it's like I had to mentally and like breath wise prepare for things like New Argentina because it was going to be much more like willpower. And she didn't put this in. In print, but you know, then go off station, take two more lines, but just things like that.
- [44:17]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, well, I mean, I would. I will say in. In six, we don't like, we have like little baby solo moments, but I mean, from the get go, we're all just BGVs pretty much the whole time. We have like the very small. Jane seemed more the only one he truly loved, but that's. That's it, you know. And so I wouldn't say there's like a part in the song where I'm like, oh crap. I wouldn't be able to hear it outside of just what it sounds like in a bgb. Sure. You know, So I feel like that's probably the only difference really. But I'm sure, I guarantee you though, if in my song something funky started, I'd be like, oh crap.
- [44:56]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah, Well, I think. I think that's sort of the. The benefit of six having so much background vocals, which first of all are absolutely no joke in this show. It might be group singing, but it is like, skyrocketing.
- [45:08]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. There's only six of us, so you can't hide. There are no backing tracks. No.
- [45:13]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. But I feel like that is sort of the benefit of if you're doing Ex Wives and you get to a moment in the group singing and you're like, huh. That note usually is a little smoother, and that was a little rougher today. I should make a mental note when I get to my song to just sort of take it as easy as possible. I think that's sort of a nice benefit, rather, is something like Evita, where you come out and you're just like, well, it's me.
- [45:35]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's just me. Oh, yeah. I get, like, three songs to continue to warm up. It's great.
- [45:39]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. Yeah. And you're classically trained, correct?
- [45:42]
Matt Koplik
I am, yeah. I did opera for a long time.
- [45:44]
Kelsey Watts
Mm. I do recommend to young singers to get some classical training, even if they don't intend to sing opera. Golden Age musicals. Just like, it helps with technique so much.
- [45:56]
Matt Koplik
Oh, my God.
- [45:57]
Kelsey Watts
And you can apply it to so many kinds of. To so many kinds of singing. Oh, there's an actress who did Cunegonda in Candide. Are you familiar with Candide?
- [46:07]
Matt Koplik
Not super. I know. I know what it is, but not super familiar. Yeah.
- [46:11]
Kelsey Watts
So, like, the big song in that is Glitter and Be Gay. The, like, super coloratory.
- [46:16]
Matt Koplik
Yes, I do. Yeah.
- [46:17]
Kelsey Watts
But phenomenal. So. But there was an actress who did it on Broadway in, like, one of the many productions they did, and they're like, was that song ever, like Harfuge? She's like. I mean, it was a. She's like. But the show's actually written in a way where it's like, 45 minutes into the show, and I basically, like, spend the first 45 minutes warming up with a bunch of group numbers. She's like. So by the time I got to glitter me gay, I was warm.
- [46:39]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [46:40]
Kelsey Watts
And I was like, that's. Yeah. I'm like, that's smart. That's smart writing. Like, you want to give your actors, you know, a little Runway before they have to, like, start taking off.
- [46:49]
Matt Koplik
Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. Thank God I do. I do get a decent Runway, which is very happy.
- [46:56]
Kelsey Watts
Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. We're not. I hate to throw them under the bus a little too much, but that is one of my issues with Wildhorn is a lot of his shows. I'm like, oh, we're just. We're just going.
- [47:05]
Matt Koplik
Here we are. Let's go.
- [47:08]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. Oh. No one has a chance to take A popper here, Frank. We're just. We're going deeper, straight.
- [47:13]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [47:18]
Kelsey Watts
So Six also has, like, a pretty large and dedicated fan base. Has the fandom been kind to you so far?
- [47:25]
Matt Koplik
They've been so nice. Oh, my gosh, they've been so nice. Even, like, not only on social media, but, like, at the stage door. You know, I try, honestly, every single show, whether it's a matinee or evening, to go out, make sure and say hi to people, be able to sign things, like, take pictures, because I think it's so important to support the people that support you.
- [47:45]
Kelsey Watts
Absolutely.
- [47:46]
Matt Koplik
Like, show, like, that type of, like, love for them. So they've been awesome. I already have, like, some fan art, which is cool and different, like, little pins and bracelets I've been given. So, I mean, everybody's. Yeah, they've been awesome. I'm so grateful.
- [47:59]
Kelsey Watts
That's wonderful. So we were talking a little bit about Easter eggs, and I want to sort of do a little more deep dive into that before we eventually have to sign off. I know that all the characters have some sort of Easter eggs within their costume design. I don't know all the deets, but I know, like, the green with. With Anne and things like that. Is there anything. Is there any intricacies to the design of Jane Seymour's costume that maybe wouldn't be obvious on first glance to people?
- [48:30]
Matt Koplik
I think the only one that I'm really well aware of, that I kind of noticed whenever I first saw the show, is her skirt. The way that her skirt is made is actually much softer. It's not the same, like, intense material that all of the other queens have. It's very heavy, but it's not like that, you know, straight, like, plastic kind of, like, armor vibe. But her corset is like, armor. Trying to. That thing is insane. So it's kind of been, like. I see it as, like, her armor, like, guarding herself, her feelings. But also her skirt is longer, and the way that it's cut is much more of, like, a princess cut. The way her hair is, is much more like. Like, I. Literally, the second I put that wig on, I feel like a Disney princess. Like, I'm just like, she's here. So it is much more of playing into the. The only one he truly loved. Much softer, much more like, you know, controlled. And, like, very much more of like a princess of Genovia kind of.
- [49:33]
Kelsey Watts
Yes, yeah. Very mindful. Very demure.
- [49:35]
Matt Koplik
Yes. Very demure.
- [49:36]
Kelsey Watts
Yes. Ingenue time, one might say.
- [49:40]
Matt Koplik
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [49:42]
Kelsey Watts
Is there are There dynamics within the group, not, like, with the actresses, but the actual characters that maybe some people, again, on first glance, would notice of, like, any kind of interactions or just basic relationships within the group that. Yeah, just like some people might not fully clock at first.
- [50:01]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Far actually has a lot of moments with different queens beforehand. But for Heart of Stone, specifically, going into my song, she's actually the last queen to go back and sit down, and she'll always give me some sort of a gesture, whether it's like her hand on her heart or like, she's kind of like, I'm listening. Like, you've got this. Like, don't let them. Don't let them bully you. Like, you've got this. You know, that's a lot of moments. You can also tell the interaction between Bolin and Aragon is hilarious all the time. Like, it's just so funny.
- [50:36]
Kelsey Watts
Like, watching that, it's basically constant trolling, which I appreciate.
- [50:41]
Matt Koplik
It's so great. It's so fun. Even in, like, the awkward, like. Like, middle scenes that, like, aren't on the soundtrack. Like, you just watch the way that they interact, and it is. It's just really funny.
- [50:53]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah.
- [50:53]
Matt Koplik
But there's a part in the show where Aragon is calling out, you know, how hard her life was, and she's like, well, I had three mistresses, and she's looking at Boleyn, and she's like, yeah, you. Yeah, that's you. But not saying that's you. Yeah, it's this whole moment. And you're like, oh, my gosh, this is crazy. But, yeah, there are definitely, like, little things like that that historically.
- [51:15]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah.
- [51:16]
Matt Koplik
Also very accurate.
- [51:17]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. It makes sense that Parr would be the one that's the most. I'm here for you, and I see you and is sort of touching grass with each. With each character, because I guess I wouldn't say spoiler alert at this point, but I guess for anyone who hasn't seen six, because the whole show is, technically speaking, a competition of who has the best life or the worst. Sorry, the worst. The worst lot. And then what does. What does Par go and do there? Kelsey, when she comes. When she gets up to the bat.
- [51:42]
Matt Koplik
Bars are like, nah, I'm done.
- [51:43]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. She's like, maybe. Maybe we don't do this.
- [51:47]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, she's. Yeah, she's the one that's like, maybe we don't compare trauma or abuse for the biggest cheer. Like, let's. Let's maybe not do that, you know, and she's the one that really turns it all around. In the song, like, I don't need your love. You know, she's like, no. Like, what if we did have a choice? What if, you know, she's the one that kind of sparks. That thought of, what if we didn't have to be remembered for just that, you know?
- [52:09]
Kelsey Watts
Mm. I do love. It's one of my. I love it when people do. I'm gonna. This is gonna sound condescending, and I don't mean it this way, but when people do stupidity so smart and intelligently so. Because it's the. It's the joke of after that song when everyone kind of goes, oh, maybe. Maybe, you know, we shouldn't do that. Maybe we should just support each other. It's like, yeah, I wish that the show had been about that the entire time. And then everybody sort of slowly looks out. I'm like, I think that's very funny.
- [52:38]
Matt Koplik
It's so funny. Yes. It's hilarious because it's like you don't realize it, but half the time, like, the audience doesn't catch up to you until you get to that, like, we call it a shady goose moment. It's.
- [52:51]
Kelsey Watts
It's.
- [52:51]
Matt Koplik
It's shady goose being like, you know.
- [52:54]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah.
- [52:55]
Matt Koplik
I mean, because. Yeah, it really is. It's brilliant. Toby and Lucy are brilliant in the way that they were this entire show. Billy, I beg to differ with you. How do you mean? You're the top. Yeah, you're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Freddy. I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3.
- [53:31]
Kelsey Watts
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Kelsey Watts
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- [54:17]
Kelsey Watts
And I do Appreciate that the whole the twist isn't even just like sisterhood, but also the mentality of trauma isn't something that, you know, makes your opinion more valid. It's like, it's. Trauma is something that you don't want to have to go through. Trauma is something that happened to you but doesn't have to define you and shouldn't and shouldn't be your reason for, you know, walking around this earth. Like, that's something you carry with you, and then you grow from it, and then you contribute and you continue to contribute. And I really love that message.
- [54:49]
Matt Koplik
Same I love. I say that all the time. Your past does not define you. Always. Way before I was in this show, I'm like, nope, you're. Tomorrow is a new day. Today is a new day. Yesterday is the past. The day before, like, five minutes ago was the past, you know, like, and you were not defined by any of those moments or things that have been done to you or with you or, you know, around you. Like, that's not your fault. Therefore, you have the ability and the can, the control and the power to, like, make your life about whatever you want it to be about. And I really do love it. And even though I know it's like a women empowerment, you know, show because they were the queens, I don't think that's limited to just women. Like, I think that it's literally everybody, like, everybody on this earth. It's like, no, no, no. You are who you want to be. Your story is what you want it to be. And, like, that's amazing. Like, you. You have the power to do that, you know, So I think it's a very inspiring script for anybody that watches it. Yeah.
- [55:44]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. I think, I think genuinely wonderful art and well told stories crosses over the aisle to anyone who isn't necessarily exactly represented on that stage. You can be. You can be a man and watch sex and go, yeah, that's right. Like, my past and my trauma doesn't define me. Or you can watch a queer story and be heterosexual and say, I see so much myself in that. Or you can be queer and watch a heterosexual story. Lord knows the number of Disney films as a child that I related to, despite the fact that I am not Ariel or Belle or Jasmine. But I was like, it, me. But it's. It's so me. But that is. That is, I think, something that a lot of people are slowly coming around to, if maybe not as quickly as I would like. There's a podcast that I enjoy, co hosted by my friend Patrick called True Crime Obsessed. And something that his co host Jillian says all the time is like, you know, the. She calls it the trauma Olympics. And it's. It's this idea of you, like, of your tragedy or your past, you know, having an effect on you, which is absolutely true. And just because we say it doesn't define you, it doesn't mean it's not hard to move on.
- [56:54]
Matt Koplik
Are you kidding?
- [56:55]
Kelsey Watts
It's the hardest thing in the world.
- [56:56]
Matt Koplik
The hardest thing ever.
- [56:58]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. Yeah. And. And. And to quote Belize and angels in America, it doesn't count if it's easy. But it. It. But it is something that can be done. And. And you can tell when someone doesn't want to do it because they. They've now attached their identity to their pain. And, you know, pain can be used in so many ways. It can be used into art. It can be used into healing. It can be used into, you know, going out and trying to do good so no one can feel the pain that you had had. And it's. It's sort of when you sit and stew in it, that's when you become Notes from the Underground, which is a classic book that I've tried to read through six different times and can't make it past the page 25 because it's just so toxic. I mean, it's meant to be. The whole. It's. It's Dostoevsky. The whole point of it is like. It's just like the most upsetting, angry, sick person. Like, it's. It's incel. Before we knew what incel was.
- [57:51]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [57:52]
Kelsey Watts
And it's. The whole point of it is that you're just sitting there being like, I feel so. Ugh. It's like, I feel so gross reading this, and I can't ever finish it because I'm like, I don't want to spend any more time with this person.
- [58:01]
Matt Koplik
You're like, no, I don't want to do that. Thank you, though.
- [58:03]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. I'm going to go. I'm going to go feel sunshine and touch grass and listen to six because I need some.
- [58:08]
Matt Koplik
Because that's happy.
- [58:09]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. I need some sugar pop. Yeah. Kelsey, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on today.
- [58:15]
Matt Koplik
Oh, my. I love this. We should do this again. This has been super fun.
- [58:18]
Kelsey Watts
Absolutely. And now that you're slowly getting back into musical theater, we should have you come on and do a genuine Broadway breakdown deep dive, which, spoiler alert, are usually about three times as long as this episode, so. Yeah.
- [58:31]
Matt Koplik
That's incredible. Yeah.
- [58:33]
Kelsey Watts
I'll Hit you up and let you know some of the shows we're gonna be covering soon. Whether it's one you know or one you've always wanted to know. And yeah, those are the episodes I love is when the guest is like, I didn't know this one. I had to. I had to do research on it. And this is what I've found out. And it's always fun. Kelsey, where can people find you if you want them to find you?
- [58:52]
Matt Koplik
Oh my gosh. Honestly, you can put my name in Google and it'll come up. But if you go into Instagram, Kelsey Watts music K E L S I E and then what's like a light bulb? Tick tock is Kelsey Watts Blue Sky. What? Twitter, which is now x or whatever. YouTube.
- [59:08]
Kelsey Watts
Twitter is the only thing we're allowed to. Still dead name Kelsey, just so you know.
- [59:11]
Matt Koplik
Okay.
- [59:12]
Kelsey Watts
Right. At least I. I think that way.
- [59:13]
Matt Koplik
Okay, cool. Same. But I'm like, I don't. Is that Ashman? I don't really use it, but it's there. Honestly, the biggest platforms that I'm on are Instagram and TikTok. Those are the biggest ones. YouTube as well. So if you. Yeah, go find me on there. And I do like, I still personally run my account, so I do my best to get through, like to find the message requests and find the hidden requests and like, actually like interact with comments because I do love getting to meet people and talk to people and like, just because my following. I'm very blessed that my following has grown like it has. But I really still am very intentional about interacting with people, especially like on TikTok. Like, I'll respond to comments with videos all the time.
- [59:53]
Kelsey Watts
All the time.
- [59:54]
Matt Koplik
But I'll start doing that on Instagram for you too, since you don't take talk.
- [59:57]
Kelsey Watts
Thank you. I. Yeah, you guys, you can find me on Instagram as well at Matt Koplik. Usual spelling. If you like the podcast, you can give us a nice 5 star rating or review. We have a new review that I need to read, so bear with us girls for a quick second. Cue the light in the Piazza Overture. 5 stars. Fun and weirdly soothing. I listen to this podcast all the time and I find it strangely, very enjoyable. Strangely. That's Kiki Love, of all things Broadway, has such a sweetness. And he is at his best when he stammers and acts silly and talks about his thwarted relationship with his ex. I like when. I like when he interrogates current social trends, reflexively calling things cringe or problematic, but maintains a thoughtful and Respectful and honest analysis of culture. My favorite guest of his is Ali Gordon. She's one of my best friends and I think she should be made a permanent co host because she brings out the best in Matt and shares his omnivorous love of theater and is also a huge geek and self effacing and adorable. Sometimes Matt gets on my nerves, but when he does, it is like a little brother grading on your last nerve. But deep down, you really love him. Thank you so much for that.
- [61:10]
Matt Koplik
I can't. I can't.
- [61:13]
Kelsey Watts
What I will say about the people who listen to this podcast is because I am very open on. On here when we're. When we're talking. And like, I. For the new listeners, it's not like we start an episode on Fun Home and I go, okay, so let me spend 20 minutes talking about my past relationship. It's more that I bring. I bring my life and my past to every show that we discuss.
- [61:34]
Matt Koplik
And genuine. Like, that makes what you do genuine. Yeah, it's relatable.
- [61:38]
Kelsey Watts
It just so happens that there was a series we did last year. It was called Problematic Question Mark, and it was about shows that had been deemed problematic at some point and us analyzing it, analyzing the time it was written and its legacy, and going like, okay, does it deserve that title? And spoiler alert, Basically, we decided that none of the shows deserve that title so much as there are shows that don't age super well and which. But, like, because I don't think there's. I don't think there's any musical in the history of Broadway that was like, you know what we should do? We should absolutely, like, make fun of this group. It's like, no, there. There were times when comedy was different and there were times when people tried but and just failed because they didn't do any research. Emilia Perez. But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but. At the time of Problematic, I was also in the middle of workshopping the play that I wrote based on my thwarted relationship with my ex. And it just so happened, like, half of the shows we were discussing mirrored so much of what I had gone through.
- [62:36]
Matt Koplik
So funny, though.
- [62:37]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. So I know that, like, listeners like Matt, enough about your goddamn ex. Like, no, I'm going to keep talking about Bob and you're all going to.
- [62:45]
Matt Koplik
Love it, and you're going to love it because you.
- [62:48]
Kelsey Watts
Because I am that annoying little brother, but gets on your nerves and you really do love him.
- [62:53]
Matt Koplik
Honestly, I think you should put that, like, as a, like, starred review. Like a highlighted review. Like, my little brother, but I still love him.
- [63:02]
Kelsey Watts
Listen, I. I am a little brother in real life. And, And I have that energy. I'll always have that energy. I, I, once, I. Once I went past 30, I'm. I'm about to turn 35. I won't lie. There are some young gentlemen on the dating apps who have not so jokingly tried to call me daddy. And I, I'm like, if anything, I am ant. I am. I'm not even uncle. I refuse. I am anti Matt. Come on.
- [63:37]
Matt Koplik
Amazing.
- [63:38]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah. Now these guys, these guys, because I'm so, like, just pretty open on this podcast, they're like, yeah, so when I write my reviews, I love you going to read you for filth. And I love that.
- [63:47]
Matt Koplik
It's amazing. Oh, my God, I love it. Well, it's just so, like, open and honest and relatable and, like, that's why. That's why people love your show is because it's. It's not put on, you know, it's. You are just you, which I think is what people love.
- [63:59]
Kelsey Watts
You know, I would hope so. And that is also. I mean, there's a downside to that, too, because people. I've gotten reviews as well, that have just been, like, pretty nasty. And. Yeah. And that's sort of the, the downside of being yourself in a public forum and, and having a thing that allows for feedback like that. And I'm not against bad reviews. I'm sort of like, if you don't like it, please be specific about what you don't like. So, you know, I might be able to take something away from that and work on myself in the future. And I got one or two that basically said, you know, I don't like the tangents you go on. I think you're. You say and, like, too much. I went, okay, that's stuff I can work on. But then I would get feedback on Spotify. Spotify is always the meanest comments because they're not actually reviews. And it's, you know.
- [64:44]
Matt Koplik
Right.
- [64:45]
Kelsey Watts
You're. You're condescending and you're arrogant. I'm like, well, I don't know how to fix.
- [64:48]
Matt Koplik
Fix. I don't know how to fix that unless you tell me specifically what I'm being condescending about.
- [64:53]
Kelsey Watts
So that's. Yeah, that's me going, I don't know how to fix your perception of me, so it's not gonna.
- [65:03]
Matt Koplik
I'm just gonna stay me. So thanks.
- [65:04]
Kelsey Watts
Yeah, there's nothing you can do to change that. I. Especially the episode that they said that about I listened to again, and I was like, I'm sorry. That's me and my friend Prescott having nothing but joy for two and a half hours about Little Shop of Horrors. And you said that we were, like, mean and nasty.
- [65:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. No, no, no.
- [65:21]
Kelsey Watts
It's fine. It's fine. People can feel how they feel. As we've learned from the discussion on six.
- [65:27]
Matt Koplik
Yes.
- [65:29]
Kelsey Watts
So, Kelsey, thank you so much for doing this. This has been phenomenal. We close out every episode with a Broadway diva. I put her in post. So now that you're back in the musical theater world, is there a Broadway diva that you would like to close out your episode?
- [65:45]
Matt Koplik
I recently became obsessed, and we chatted a little bit because I went to see Hell's Kitchen. But Jessica Vosk, let's go with her. I would call her a Broadway diva.
- [65:53]
Kelsey Watts
The Vosk is absolutely a diva.
- [65:55]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, she's. She's amazing. I cannot wait. I cannot wait to hang out with her. She's gonna be great.
- [65:59]
Kelsey Watts
Fantastic. All right, so we'll. We'll close out the Vosk. So thank you so much for listening, guys. This is a bonus episode, so I think this is actually gonna come out right before the final Angels in America episode. Either that or right before my announcement of the new series and all the shows I'll be covering either way. Look forward to either those two things, and we'll see you guys next time. Take it away, Vosk. Bye.
- [66:35]
Matt Koplik
Oh, no. At least I'm flying free to those around me Take our message back from me Tell them I'm divine gravity I'm flying gravity and soon I'll match them.
- [66:58]
Kelsey Watts
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- [67:22]
Matt Koplik
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Kelsey Watts
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Matt Koplik
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Kelsey Watts
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Matt Koplik
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Kelsey Watts
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Matt Koplik
Arts, just go to Indeed.com Arts right.
- [67:53]
Kelsey Watts
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- [67:57]
Matt Koplik
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- [67:59]
Kelsey Watts
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