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- [00:00]
Matt Koplik
Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network.
- [00:06]
Gray Henson
Visit BPM FM to discover more.
- [00:14]
Matt Koplik
Now that I'm technically speaking an adult, I understand more and more the importance of nutrition. Not to mention the joy of a well prepared meal. That said, do I always have the time to make a well prepared meal chock full of ingredients that are super good for me? Is that would be a no. Which is why I rely on factor. With over 40 meal options each week, I've enjoyed tasty, super nutritious meals that I'll be honest, I couldn't make for myself. I've been on a little bit of a fitness journey lately and Factor's given me some amazing dinners that stay within my calorie budget and also have no dairy. Since I am lactose sensitive, I'm particularly a fan of the ginger teriyaki salmon dish. Listen, if they could do that for me, they can do it for you. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, grab and go. Snacks, smoothies. Factor's got it all. Fully prepared meals with ingredients you can trust delivered right to your door. Eat smartwatch with Factor. Get started at FactorMeals.com BB50OFF and use code BB50OFF to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. That's code BB50OFF@FactorMeals.com BB50OFF to get 50% OFF plus free shipping on your first box. Huddle up. It's me, Angel Reese. You can't beat the postgame burger and fries, right? Know what else you can't beat? The Angel Reese special. Let's break it down. My favorite barbecue sauce, American cheese, crispy bacon, pickles, onions and a sesame seed bun, of course. And don't for fries and a drink. It's going to be a high C for me. Sound good? All you have to do to get it is beat me in a one on one. I'm just playing get the Angel re special at McDonald's. Now participating restaurants for a limited time. Okay, are we. Oh great, we're on. Okay.
- [01:47]
Gray Henson
Hello, Rihanna. Yeah.
- [01:48]
Matt Koplik
I mean, okay. Fantastic. Thank you for voting everyone.
- [01:51]
Gray Henson
Okay.
- [01:52]
Matt Koplik
Hello and welcome to a very special episode of Broadway Breakdown Live from BroadwayCon 2025. Exclamation point. By being in our audience today, you are part of live recording of the podcast. So feel free to laugh, applaud and react along with us. Make sure you're also following us at Broadway Podcast Network for the latest updates on what we're up to at BroadwayCon. Thank you, Alan. Now let's get started. Hello, all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing. That's right, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. With me today is a Tony nominee. You last saw him this holiday season in Elf. He's back to his alma mater, the Marriott Hotel.
- [02:43]
Gray Henson
Right, right.
- [02:44]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Please welcome to the pod. Gray Henson. Hi, Gray. Hi.
- [02:48]
Gray Henson
Woo. Hi.
- [02:51]
Matt Koplik
Hi. So this is to clarify for Gray, who didn't understand what was happening, we are about to pick out one of your votes at random. We are not going to tally the votes that will keep us here for an hour. Right.
- [03:02]
Gray Henson
That's what I thought was.
- [03:03]
Matt Koplik
Yes, but depending on how the votes go, it could skew either way based on how many people voted for what. So again, our options are Mean Girls, Les Mis, Sweeney Todd, Oklahoma. Gray, do you want to do the honors?
- [03:13]
Gray Henson
Yes.
- [03:13]
Matt Koplik
Fantastic. Okay. It is Les Mis Shock.
- [03:22]
Gray Henson
Yes.
- [03:23]
Matt Koplik
Okay. Does it have to be an hour, Ellen? Can it be five? It's a three hour musical. Okay. We all have a lot of stuff to talk about. First things first, Gray, for the uncultured noobs out there, can you simmer down what Les Mis is about in a couple of sentences?
- [03:42]
Gray Henson
Oh, gosh. Oh, okay. The synopsis of Les Mis.
- [03:47]
Matt Koplik
A plot so simple that they had to put it in the playbill of the original Broadway production so audiences could follow along.
- [03:53]
Gray Henson
Oh, did they really?
- [03:54]
Matt Koplik
Oh, I have.
- [03:55]
Gray Henson
So incredible. That would be helpful, I think.
- [03:56]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah. They're like act one, scene one. This is what happens. Act two, scene two. Jean Valjean has a new name. It's that kind of stuff.
- [04:02]
Gray Henson
It is really confusing, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Okay.
- [04:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [04:05]
Gray Henson
I mean, it's about Jean Valjean, who. So I've done Les Mis twice, which we'll get into later.
- [04:11]
Matt Koplik
Fantastic.
- [04:12]
Gray Henson
But I haven't really thought about it since middle school. But so. No, that's not true. I saw the movie, which came out after middle school for me, I think. Right. When did the movie come out?
- [04:22]
Matt Koplik
2012.
- [04:22]
Gray Henson
Okay.
- [04:23]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You weren't in middle school.
- [04:25]
Gray Henson
No, no, I graduated from college in 2012. Yes.
- [04:27]
Matt Koplik
Fantastic.
- [04:28]
Gray Henson
So, okay, it's about Jean Valjean, who is a criminal.
- [04:32]
Matt Koplik
He's a convict.
- [04:34]
Gray Henson
Convict, Right. Because he did what?
- [04:37]
Matt Koplik
He stole carbs.
- [04:39]
Gray Henson
Right. He stole bread. But that's where the show starts. Right.
- [04:43]
Matt Koplik
The show starts with him going out on parole after 19 years in prison for stealing A loaf of bread. Yes.
- [04:47]
Gray Henson
Okay. Could you give us the synopsis of Les Mischievous.
- [04:55]
Matt Koplik
Twist My Arm. Jean Valjean gets released on parole. And he ends up being gifted two pieces of silver candlesticks from a very loving bishop. And he uses that silver to start a new life. Becomes a mayor and the owner of a factory where one of his workers gets fired because she has a secret child. Yes. Out of wedlock. That is Fantine. She dreamed a dream. And because she's fired and she has to provide for her kid Cosette, who is being cared for by an innkeeper and his wife, who are totally on the up and up. And she's. She has to send money to them because she. She thinks Cosette is sick. She doesn't know that it's a con that they're telling her. So she sells her hair, she sells her locket in the book. She sells her two front teeth. And then she goes into sex work. And it's not a positive sex work. It's. It's the sad kind. And through that she then gets. I think she gets sick with either TB or plot device, whatever you want to call it. They never say what it is. Storytelling is what she gets sick with. Valjean realizes that he made a mistake. He promises that he'll take care of Cosette. She dies this whole time. This absolute. So I like to curse. How offended are we by curse words? Fantastic. This dick Javert, the constable.
- [06:17]
Gray Henson
Constable.
- [06:17]
Matt Koplik
Constable who's been chasing Valjean because he's like, you're a criminal. You'll always be a criminal. And I'm gonna find you like he's. The Valjean lives rent free in Javert's head. And he's just like. He's the ex that got away. And so he's chasing him. He won't stop stalking him. Valjean goes, gets Cosette. She grows up to be an ingenue. She falls in love with a very pretty dum dum named Marius. Marius is part of a group of rich boys who are like, we are allies. And so they go to like, fight a revolution for the poor. It doesn't go great. Marius has a Taylor Swift type who's longing for him named Eponine. She dies for him. Ish. And then everyone but Marius dies because Marius is special somehow. He and Cosette get married. Valjean tells Marius his true life story. Javert has a conundrum and decides to exit plan off of a bridge. The Thenardiers are funny. Valjean then tells Cosette, P.S. you're not my real daughter. Your mother died protecting you. Now I'm dying. Peace out. And then the ghosts come back, like in Titanic. And they say, when tomorrow comes. And that's Les Mis. Great. Thank you. Not since, I don't know, Lea Polstadt has there been such intricate storytelling. So I just did there. So, great. How did Les Mis enter your chat?
- [07:51]
Gray Henson
I first did Les Mis. I think I heard about it just growing up, but I did it in middle school for the first time. I played one of the sailors.
- [08:00]
Matt Koplik
As in lovely ladies.
- [08:02]
Gray Henson
Lovely ladies, yeah. And I was like, you know, a student and whatnot. But my big feature was even stokers need a little space.
- [08:10]
Matt Koplik
I mean, age 12. I mean, that's the button. Listen, I also. Raise of hands. Who's ever been in a production of Les Miserables? Yes. Yes. Amazing. Were we principals? Were we ensemble? Oh, principal. Okay, what was our. What was our role? Fantine. Oh, my God. First of all, Fantine. Okay, does everyone know what the term princess track means? A princess track, for those of you who don't know, is you get such a spotlight on you. Not a lot of stage time. Think like King George and Hamilton. Right. Fontina is the ultimate princess track. She comes on 20 minutes into the show, sings the most famous song of the show, dies, does not come back for another three hours. You can watch six episodes of Grey's Anatomy in between dying and coming back as a ghost. It's amazing.
- [08:56]
Gray Henson
Wait, don't they normally have Fantine play a student in the.
- [08:59]
Matt Koplik
So they had her play a bullet boy in the original Broadway production.
- [09:03]
Gray Henson
You heard the story of Andrea McCardell when she did it. Okay, you heard the story about the candy.
- [09:08]
Matt Koplik
So we'll tell both. Okay, so we'll tell. So first we have to. Okay, raise of hands. Who saw the original production of Les Mis? Maybe not when it opened, but at some point. Fantastic. It's the Royal Shakespeare Company. They were very big on doubling roles. So if you saw it, like Marius and Enjolras, they were constables in the opening. And Cosette and Eponine are sex workers and lovely ladies and so on and so forth. Patti LuPone was the original Fantine in London. And as we all know, Patti LuPone, despite what she says, does not love ensemble tracks. So she always would conveniently have commitments when they were like, okay, now we're staging, you know, one Day More. And now we're staging the ABC Cafe. And she's like, oops, I have a. I have a thing. And then one day she comes into rehearsal accidentally, and they're staging a barricade scene, and they're like, oh, my God, Patty, thank you so much for coming. You're a bullet boy, which is why in the original Broadway production, the only role that Fantine played was the bullet boy. So she would die, have all of Act 1 off stage, come back as the bullet boy for a scene, not have a line or anything, then go off and get to be Fantine again. Andrea McCardell played the role for a while on Broadway. Do you want to tell the candy story of Andrea McCardell?
- [10:15]
Gray Henson
Right. I mean, I don't know if it's a very, like, intricate story, but she would, you know, go on stage with, like, skittles in her pocket or something, I think. And I heard that one day she did a big, dramatic death, and when she died, all the skittles fell out and slowly just, like, boun their way into the pit. Yeah. And it was like silence. Right. It's like when the.
- [10:36]
Matt Koplik
It's when that big revolve is happening, all the students are dying, and it's the orchestra playing Bring him Home so quietly. So you have doo, doo, doo.
- [10:43]
Gray Henson
Right?
- [10:43]
Matt Koplik
Doo, doo, doo. And then just like a rainstorm happening in the barricade, because it's that giant thing, and it's echoey. It's all metal and whatnot. Yeah.
- [10:50]
Gray Henson
And it's also very sad and tragic. And then all of a sudden, all the skittles are just raining down.
- [10:54]
Matt Koplik
A little fall of rain, one might say. That's how, you know, everyone in this room has seen that show. So you played a sailor in one production?
- [11:01]
Gray Henson
Yes. Yeah, yeah. In Macon, Georgia, where I'm from, I did that. And then when I was in high school, a junior in high school, I played Marius.
- [11:09]
Matt Koplik
That's versatility.
- [11:10]
Gray Henson
I know. Yeah. Marius, Right. Not Marius. I mean, does it matter?
- [11:17]
Matt Koplik
It's like saying aunt or aunt. Like, aren't we both correct?
- [11:20]
Gray Henson
Marius. In Georgia, we said Marius.
- [11:22]
Matt Koplik
I think, maybe incorrectly, I think of. Yeah. In the obc, they go, marius, you're no longer a child.
- [11:28]
Gray Henson
So many good roles in that show, though. While you were talking about it, I forgot that, like, Eponine existed. And she's so fantastic. I was like, all right. And then there's Eponine, and she loves him. There's so many different twists and turns.
- [11:40]
Matt Koplik
Eponine is, I think, the reason why I love really baggy coats. I love clothes that don't fit me. And it's because of the original Eponine costume, because she's trying to be a little Boy. Not a little boy, but like a teenage boy delivering a message to Valjean. And she's got that coat that just like droops over her. And I'm like, oh, so delicate.
- [11:58]
Gray Henson
An iconic look.
- [11:59]
Matt Koplik
It's an iconic look.
- [12:00]
Gray Henson
Wait, was Lea Salonga the original.
- [12:02]
Matt Koplik
No, Right? No, it was Leah Salonga replaced on Broadway. This is why I'm here. Because I have an IBD be right in my head. She replaced after doing Miss Saige Gone on Broadway and then was in the 10th anniversary concert, aka the Dreamcast with Colin Wilkinson. The original Ruthie Henschel as Fantine. My beloved Judy Kuhn as Cosette. May I just say Judy Kuhn. Who knows who Judy Kuhn is? That is correct. This woman. So Cosette is a very perfectly fine role, but she's not like. I wouldn't say she's on a track that everyone's like, oh, my God, I simply must play Cosette. The meat on that. On those bones. It's, you know, she sings in my life. She sings Heart Full of Love and she's gone. Judy Kuhn in 1987, got nominated for a Tony Award for playing Cosette over Randy Graf, who played Fantine. Do you know how good you have to be to take that bale of hay of a role and turn it into Tony nominated gold? That is why she has four Tony nominations. And then she got her role in Chess, actually. Chess. Realdo Chess, yes. May or may not be coming to Broadway next season. Shh. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Chess with hopefully a new book, but, you know, make peace and make room. Kunzie. Those of us who don't know her call her Kunzy. She had done a musical the same season as Les Mis called Rags. You might be the only person in this room who saw Rags. Rags ran for four performances, had a whole plotline about the fire in the Triangle Factory, and Kunzy was in it and booked Les Mis because Rags Close assumed. But Rags ended up being a best musical nominee the same year as Les Mis. So she goes on and she does one day more with her little soprano, but then she goes on and she belts the title song from Rags. And Trevor Nunn's like, judy, you belt. Would you maybe want to audition for me for one of the greatest belting roles of the 1980s? And she was like, sure, why not? Got a second Tony nomination back to back. And just.
- [14:01]
Gray Henson
I didn't know all that. That's epic.
- [14:02]
Matt Koplik
I mean, we're talking about Les Mis, but I'm talking about Judy Kim.
- [14:05]
Gray Henson
No.
- [14:05]
Matt Koplik
Amazing.
- [14:06]
Gray Henson
Like, because Pocahontas. I mean, Pocahontas.
- [14:09]
Matt Koplik
Okay, here's. Here's. This is why if you. If you are an aspiring singer, and this is why you should get to know Judy Kune. Some people can sing Florence and Chess. Those people can't always sing Cosette and Les Mis. Some people can do Amalia and She loves Me. They can't always do Colors of the Wind from Pocahontas. Judy Kuhn can't do both. Yeah. Could have won a Tony for Sunset Boulevard if she didn't get pregnant. Oh, right. You guys don't know that story, so.
- [14:35]
Gray Henson
Yeah, you have so many stories.
- [14:37]
Matt Koplik
So many stories. So Judy Kuhn was in the Los Angeles production of Sunset Boulevard, the famous one that got Patty fired. And she was Betty Schaeffer, Another Cozettish role where you're like, you're pretty. You sing pretty. But, like, I was gonna bring back To Norma, and Judy was gonna bring it to Broadway, and then she got pregnant, and so then it was Alice Ripley, who we do love, but she can't sing Amalia. And she loves me. And that's just a fact. That's why QNC's amazing. And she would have won a Tony if she had gotten it. I'm convinced of that. Yeah. It's my one, like, tinfoil hat theory.
- [15:06]
Gray Henson
Have you told her?
- [15:08]
Matt Koplik
Yes. It's not my proudest memory.
- [15:12]
Gray Henson
Did it go over well?
- [15:14]
Matt Koplik
Have you? Well, so it is live. In a way, it did. And in a way, it's a thing that happened. I saw Fun Home and my friend Emily was in it. Emily Skeggs and. Yeah, Emerson. Woohoo. And she knew how I felt about cute and Z and didn't tell me that I was going to be meeting Judy Kuhn. You don't tell a homosexual. Sorry. You don't go and sneak Judy Kuhn up on a homosexual. You tell them ahead of time you're meeting Judy Kuhn. Same thing with Audra or, you know, Donna Murphy. And she just like, oh, Judy, my friend Matt is a fan of yours. And the first words out of my mouth were, I'm so sorry for what's about to happen, and just word vomit. I talked about Mystery of Bevin Drood. I mentioned Pocahontas. I Talked about the 10th anniversary of Les Mis. Beth Malone is just standing there looking at me like it's Wimbledon. She's, like, watching Judy watching me, watching Judy watching me. It ends. And Kunzie, to her credit, just goes, do you want a hug?
- [16:20]
Gray Henson
That's so sweet.
- [16:22]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. No, It's a great story on her end.
- [16:24]
Gray Henson
Yeah. Are you okay?
- [16:26]
Matt Koplik
Are you okay? Fun fact. I also did Les Mis at the tender age of 12. Have you done. Who's done Les Mis? The High School edition from mti. Oh, okay. So, okay, there's a high school edition of Les Mis. Like, there's a once on this island. Junior into the woods, Junior. It's mostly just Les Mis. It's 30 minutes shorter and the keys are easier for teenagers. They give you what's called a reference recording.
- [16:48]
Gray Henson
Yes. Yeah, of course.
- [16:50]
Matt Koplik
Where they have kids who sing it for you. So you know how it's supposed to sound if you listen to the prologue when Valjean is on parole and he gets a job with all these, like, farm workers, something. Yeah, yeah. He's given, you know, two pennies and told to go away. And he goes, this is nothing. And there's supposed to be a farm worker who's like, you broke the law. It's there for people to see. If you listen to the reference recording, you'll hear a little 12 year old me go, you broke the law. It's there for people to see.
- [17:19]
Gray Henson
And you were on the recording.
- [17:22]
Matt Koplik
I am on the recording with Skylar Ast.
- [17:25]
Gray Henson
Wow.
- [17:26]
Matt Koplik
Eric Bergen. Adam Chandler Barat is in the ensemble. Yeah. And then. But I had that little solo.
- [17:33]
Gray Henson
I forgot you're a New York City kid.
- [17:35]
Matt Koplik
I am.
- [17:35]
Gray Henson
So you were working and stuff when you were little. Did you do more of those. More of those, like, recording things?
- [17:42]
Matt Koplik
None of those recording things. I worked. I worked.
- [17:46]
Gray Henson
That's amazing.
- [17:46]
Matt Koplik
I worked.
- [17:47]
Gray Henson
But so far away from Broadway as a child, like, my Les Mis was like, you know.
- [17:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. No, my family was much bigger on taking me to see Broadway. They didn't want me to be on Broadway.
- [17:56]
Gray Henson
Right.
- [17:56]
Matt Koplik
Like, they took me to see Les Mis when I was five.
- [17:58]
Gray Henson
Right, right, right. Yeah.
- [17:59]
Matt Koplik
Because I. And I know that because Melba Moore was our Fantine. And if you don't know Melba Moore, she sings I Got Love from Pearly. Yeah. She was the first black Fantine on Broadway and she was in it from January to March of 1995. And my birthday is in March of 95. So I'm like, best case scenario, I just turned five when I saw Les Mis. Yeah. My parents had a lot of faith in me. Wow. Yeah.
- [18:20]
Gray Henson
Wait, did you do the full production on stage and then they recorded it or how did it work? Or do you just record it for. Specifically for, like, the MTI thing?
- [18:27]
Matt Koplik
No. So mti. MTI is Music Theater International. They're a licensing Company. If you ever do like Guys and Dolls, you have to get the rights from them. They are the ones who do the juniors and high school editions. So it was a workshop production that I did where Skylar Astin was Andras, Adam Chandler Barat was Tenardier, and we did it and then they were like, okay, we're going to do a reference recording. So when high schools do it. Yeah, the cool. No, what's really cool is Les Mis closed on Broadway a year later. And Cameron Mackintosh was like, we want everyone to know that Les Mis will never be forgotten. Children will keep doing it for years. So he had, at that point, the high school edition had been performed for like a year. And so they had 30 of us who had done it in different school productions come together and do a medley at the closing night performance of Les Mis. After the show was over on the stage in front of everyone. Cristin Milioti was in that group with me. I have a Polaroid in like a stack from that week. And I was like, oh, hello future. Like Emmy winner. Yeah, I was entourage. I was 13. And so because I was 13, they're like, you'll wear the costume, you won't get a solo because your voice is going through things. But yeah, that was like the fun time.
- [19:39]
Gray Henson
That is so cool.
- [19:39]
Matt Koplik
I have a photo of me with Alan Cumming from the after party that I. That I have framed. Yeah.
- [19:43]
Gray Henson
Do you have a video of this? Of the closing on stage?
- [19:46]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I mean, I don't. I think it's on YouTube.
- [19:51]
Gray Henson
Okay. Yeah, send it to me after.
- [19:53]
Matt Koplik
I mean, like, great. Do you personally own videos of you and Mean Girls?
- [19:57]
Gray Henson
No, no, I don't.
- [19:58]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, but like the videos are out there.
- [20:01]
Gray Henson
Yeah, that's true, that's true.
- [20:02]
Matt Koplik
Is the video of you and Les Mis?
- [20:04]
Gray Henson
I do have a recording of Les Mis.
- [20:06]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [20:06]
Gray Henson
But when I did Marius and actually I have a CD of it too. Like they. Someone's mom burned us a CD of our performance because we thought it was so amazing, which it was really not.
- [20:16]
Matt Koplik
But that's the beauty of high school. So how, how would, how was your approach to Marius though? Because he's a tricky role.
- [20:23]
Gray Henson
Uh huh. Yeah. I don't know that I was really thinking of my approach at the time when I was 16, it was my natural energy. Like that was. Me in high school was just like youthful and kind and just wide eyed and so that's how I played it, I think. And that was when I was like first discovering like my singing voice. And I remember thinking like, oh, there's something I can. I can sing these notes and hold them out. And I just felt like. I felt like, you know, something about Les Mis makes you feel like you're really a Broadway performer. Right. There's just the energy and the drama and, like. Yeah, I. I think it was the first time that I was like, oh, I think I can do this professionally. Seriously. Playing Marius and Les Mis, I mean, that's a.
- [21:02]
Matt Koplik
If you can get away with playing Marius, you can.
- [21:04]
Gray Henson
No, but I mean, it's sort of not. Not the. It's not the most exciting role in the show, right?
- [21:10]
Matt Koplik
No, no. Do we have any Marius apologists out there who are like, I think he's secretly the golden track? Yeah, that's what I thought.
- [21:18]
Gray Henson
It's kind of bleak. Yeah.
- [21:20]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [21:20]
Gray Henson
Well, because, like, little generic.
- [21:22]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. But I think that's sort of every part in that show fits a place in a tapestry. Right. Like, Anjaras is like, the heart pumping. Like, not Lotharia, but, like, kind of like what you would imagine the hero of a story to be.
- [21:35]
Gray Henson
Right.
- [21:36]
Matt Koplik
And the actual hero is this, like, I don't know, sensitive inside boy.
- [21:41]
Gray Henson
Yeah. He does have the biggest arc, Right. Like Marius, like you said, he does go. Like, he survives everything and sees.
- [21:48]
Matt Koplik
Would we call that an arc? Or would we call that someone who things happen to?
- [21:54]
Gray Henson
I mean, I guess. Isn't that the definition of an ark? Right? Like, life happens to you.
- [22:00]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. But then, like, how do you. Like, how do you shift from it?
- [22:04]
Gray Henson
You know, it's like empty chairs and empty tables. Like, he realizes some shit in that.
- [22:09]
Matt Koplik
Song that he's sad.
- [22:12]
Gray Henson
Yeah, well, actually, like, let's walk through that song because I'm forgetting now what happened.
- [22:16]
Matt Koplik
Okay. Actually, so Santino Fontana has a great joke about that song, that it's the perfect eight bar cut, because it begins and you go, there's a grief that can't be spoken. Thank you. Because if it can't be spoken, why do you then sing for three more minutes? But that is ultimately the beauty of musical theater.
- [22:33]
Gray Henson
Yeah. Oh, my God, I love that so much.
- [22:36]
Matt Koplik
That show also is really big on motifs. You know, some would. A negative Nancy would call it, you know, recycling melodies. I think of it as a motif because, you know, it's something that Andrew Lloyd Webber gets dragged for a lot. You know, he repeats stuff. But, you know, there are times when I think it makes sense. In Les Mis, Evita may be a little less so much as I love that show, like, in Evita, I don't know why the melody for Another Suitcase in Another hall is then the melody for. The Actress hasn't learned the lines you like to hear. I'm like, what's going on here? Is it just that we like that? It scans well.
- [23:09]
Gray Henson
Yeah.
- [23:10]
Matt Koplik
I can't tell you why. In Phantom of the Opera, angel of Music is so, like, faux opera. And then we go straight into 80s synth pop. I love it. Don't get me wrong. Like, it's chemically beautiful, but I like, dramaturgically speaking, like, what are we doing here? What's this about?
- [23:23]
Gray Henson
What are the major themes in Les Mis?
- [23:24]
Matt Koplik
Oh, my God, a million. There's the On My Own theme, which is first sung by Fantine as she's dying and singing to, like, imaginary Cosette. Right? And then is a. Sung again by Eponine when she's singing about an imaginary Marius. Themes, dramaturgy. This is why this is important. And then when Valjean is dying, Fantine and Eponine sing that melody again. The Take my hand I'll lead you to salvation. And my friend Prescott, drag queen. Suddenly, Seymour, for any of you New York people, he said to me, like, why is Eponine there When Valjean dies, she met him for a second. I'm like, well, themes. It's about L'oeuvrev. It's about. It's about, you know, sacrificing self for others and. And her and Fantine singing that melody line together. I'm like. It just makes sense to me.
- [24:11]
Gray Henson
Right?
- [24:11]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. There's other ones. Castle on macleod is repeated only once, thank God. But after Attack on Rue Plumet. Oh, plot. But we didn't talk about Thenardier, the innkeeper who's mean. He recognizes Valjean many years later. Because when Valjean goes to take Cosette away, he's like, here's money. I'm taking this little girl away. And Senardier is like, you know, peace be with you. But then he realizes that Valjean was worth, like, so much more money. And now he feels cheated. So he goes to rob Valjean with his gang. Eponine screams. And they all run off. And Cosette sort of takes the fall for Valjean. And she sings the Castle on the Cloud motif. The three men I saw beyond the wall Three men in shadow moving fast. That's Castle on a Cloud. One day more Marius theme is I dreamed a dream I did not live before today I dreamed a dream A time gone by. Yeah, there's. Which. I feel like, you know, there's themes to that. There's Connections to that. There's so many more. Look down at the beginning. Is also used in Paris with the beggars. There's more. Come the bishop. Come and serve where you are weary. That's something.
- [25:20]
Gray Henson
Empty chairs.
- [25:21]
Matt Koplik
Thank you. What's the connection there? I'm actually asking you guys. I have no idea.
- [25:26]
Gray Henson
You mean the bishop in the beginning?
- [25:28]
Matt Koplik
The bishop and Marius. What's their connection other than that they're dudes?
- [25:32]
Gray Henson
I don't know.
- [25:33]
Matt Koplik
Is it that the bishop is not a wet blanket and Marius is.
- [25:38]
Gray Henson
You hate Marius.
- [25:39]
Matt Koplik
I don't hate Marius. Like, I understand the significance of a nice guy with a thick head of hair, but I'm like, eponine, my love, you look so good in a trench coat. Like, the world is your oyster if you let it be. You must use sacrifice self for this boy. Especially when you see, like, who else is on that barricade. You're like, it's very Anne on Arrested Development. Just like her. Like, you're looking at all the other boys on the barricade. And Eponine's like, marius. That's all who I'll die for. And you're like her, you know?
- [26:12]
Gray Henson
Have you read the book? You've read Victor Hugo's novel?
- [26:15]
Matt Koplik
I've tried.
- [26:16]
Gray Henson
You haven't? Is it just epic? It's too long.
- [26:18]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's like eight, fifteen hundred pages.
- [26:21]
Gray Henson
Has anyone here read it?
- [26:23]
Matt Koplik
The whole thing? How long did it take you guys? Yeah, I think. Well, so I think that was actually a case where my. Where my dad intervened when I tried to read it. Because when I was in sixth grade, I said I thought I fancied myself a reader. I'm like, I'm gonna read Gone with the Wind, which is an 800 page book. And it took me a year and a half. And then in high school, I was like, I'm gonna read Les Mis. And I think I got through 200 pages over the course of two months. And my dad was like, no one here is, like, keeping score. You, like, just stop. Like, you're only hurting yourself, right?
- [27:03]
Gray Henson
Who are you doing this for?
- [27:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, but I've watched. There's a miniseries of it. There's a movie with Uma Thurman.
- [27:10]
Gray Henson
That's who.
- [27:11]
Matt Koplik
She's Fantine. Oh, yeah. There's a movie from the 90s. Uma Thurman is Fantine. Liam Neeson is Valjean.
- [27:16]
Gray Henson
Oh, right.
- [27:16]
Matt Koplik
Claire Danes is a bitchy Cosette. Oh, she, like, has issues.
- [27:21]
Gray Henson
It's a fun take.
- [27:23]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah. Well, there have been many. There have Been many movies. But Eponine's not in it at all. I know that. Or she's. Gavroche isn't in it. Yeah. I just remember because Cosette grows up and she's resentful that they're living in this nunnery, which. That's also something that you don't know in the actual stage show. Is that Cosette and Valjean live in a nunnery. Yeah. Did I just blow anybody's minds? That's why. That's why the original production, her costume was black with that, like, little white thing. Yeah, it was like the nuns. They had a whole sequence, actually. This is a fun fact. Okay, sorry. This is where I'm actually gonna prove my worth and not just be catty. So when we did that medley for the final performance of the Broadway production, John Caird, one of the co directors of Les Mis, came and spoke with us, as did Randy Graff, as did Claude Michel Schomburg, who said, if you're not sweating, you're not singing. And that was super important to me at 13. I've grown up now being like, that's unsustainable. But Les Mis, he said there was a chase sequence in Act 1 that they had to cut because the first preview of Les Mis was, like, five hours long. And it was. Yeah, I know. It was like, I don't know, the first preview of Gypsy. But they had this whole chase sequence when Valjean left the Thenardiers and Javier is chasing him and it's on the turntable and all this stuff. And he carries. He carried a dummy Cosette on his shoulders and went up the barricade and jumped into what turned out to be the garden of a nunnery. And, like. But Cosette's little dolly, like, fell on the ground. And Javert, like, thinks that he knows where Valjean is. He can't be sure. And the nuns are like, we can't tell you. No one's in here. He's like, got it. Got it. And then he sees the doll on the ground. He's like, they're somewhere here. And then they transitioned into Paris and they were like, no one needs to know, like, exactly what happens. They're like, that's a 15 minute sequence. Just cut it. So they were just like, yeah, who cares? You know, Valjean and Javier in the same spot again ten years later. That's just what they do. Every. Every ten years, they're in the same city in France.
- [29:32]
Gray Henson
It is a pretty, like, impressive thing that they made that massive book into A musical and like, there's so many characters and different plot points you have to follow and track and it's like a feat.
- [29:42]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, well, you kind of sacrifice nuance, which is fine because the whole thing is like epic. So it's just like big master strokes. I tell people all the time, don't come at Les Mis with a fine tooth comb. Because that plot does fall apart in the stage show if you analyze it too much.
- [29:56]
Gray Henson
Yeah. But the music, I guess, sort of just lends itself to the emotion that's missing from the text, right?
- [30:01]
Matt Koplik
I think so, yeah. What would be like the song for you in Les Mis? Yeah.
- [30:05]
Gray Henson
I mean, it is I Dreamed to dream.
- [30:07]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [30:07]
Gray Henson
Isn't it? I think that, like, that's. I think the one that has the most, like, lasting power.
- [30:13]
Matt Koplik
Have you ever gotten a chance to sing it?
- [30:15]
Gray Henson
No. No, it's now. It's on the bucket list, though. I dream to dream.
- [30:19]
Matt Koplik
Are we gonna do a cabaret at any point?
- [30:21]
Gray Henson
Yes.
- [30:22]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [30:22]
Gray Henson
We'll play every part in Les Mis.
- [30:25]
Matt Koplik
But. But Marius.
- [30:26]
Gray Henson
Yeah. Except. Yeah, I definitely don't want to play Marius. Yeah. Yeah.
- [30:32]
Matt Koplik
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- [31:55]
Gray Henson
Amen.
- [31:56]
Matt Koplik
A new season of the HBO original series the White Lotus premieres February 16th at 9pm on MAX. So we have a Discord Channel for Broadway Breakdown. If you listen to the podcast, I highly recommend that you join. And I just asked the Discord members, like, you know, what are a couple things you'd want to ask to talk about? One person said. So we said, favorite song. If you could cut one song in Les Mis, what would it be?
- [32:21]
Gray Henson
Oh, that's tough, right? I mean, unfortunately, my gut is telling me Castle on a Cloud. I know, right? Thanks, everybody.
- [32:31]
Matt Koplik
So, yeah, in fairness to Gray, Kids are the future. I don't love them on my stage. It's. It's.
- [32:40]
Gray Henson
Wait, did you see Elf? Kai Edgar was so good in Elf.
- [32:43]
Matt Koplik
No, I did, and he. He did everything that I would hope a child actor does on stage. He sang really incredibly and, like, had scene work, but, like, he knew when a star was on stage, and it was like.
- [32:54]
Gray Henson
Yeah, he was doing stuff that I was so shocked. But we were doing that eat the spaghetti scene, and, you know, I was just kind of talking to him about his day in that moment, because it's like, they're singing. Ashley Brown was singing some song, and we're, like, eating the spaghetti. And at one point he was saying, like, you know what you should have next is a chocolate monster. Because later in the scene, I, like, talk about this hot chocolate thing. And he planted the seed as the character that then Buddy would later reference. And I was like, kai, you're just, like, doing amazing text work over here in Elf. It, like, blew my mind that he was, like, connecting the dots while we were just supposed to be like, chit chatting about our days. You know what I mean?
- [33:29]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. No. Children can be the dramaturgs on my shows. I just. I don't love them on my stage.
- [33:36]
Gray Henson
So you have a problem with the child actors that have played the role?
- [33:39]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. It's not their fault, though.
- [33:41]
Gray Henson
I know, but the song is sort of like a. It's. I guess if there's one to cut, that, to me, is the most depressing song. Think.
- [33:47]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And they've. Well, to be fair, they also have. They kept cutting it down. It used to be, like, three minutes long. And then somebody said, one day, Matt Koplik's gonna be born and he's gonna hate this. So let's get this down to 40 seconds. And there also used to be like a post bit on it where. Because it used to be. It now goes into like, Not In My Castle on a Cloud. And then Madison RDA comes in just like, well, look, Uzi. Yeah, it used to be. You can watch in the Dream cast as well before she comes on. She's like, oh, help. I haven't started. I haven't finished scrubbing the floors and they're gonna beat me now. Like, it's like this three minute preamble that I'm just like, this is like Emilia Perez bullshit of just like. Yeah, I'm just like singing on one note all of your inner thoughts.
- [34:31]
Gray Henson
Yes.
- [34:31]
Matt Koplik
I'm like, we're better than that. Lame is. And so they cut it. But, yeah, I would. I would. I cut. Costa, look out. I would cut turning. Anyone, you know, Turning. Yeah, that's, I think, the only song that repeats the Lovely Ladies medley motif. Again, I couldn't necessarily tell you why, other than it's two situations where there are women on stage. But returning is post revolution. And it's just the women being like, those pretty boys went to fight and they. Yeah, they couldn't have done it. Yeah, no, yeah, it's definitely.
- [35:04]
Gray Henson
It was filler.
- [35:08]
Matt Koplik
You don't need it in the movie. There were a lot of things I felt the movie didn't need.
- [35:13]
Gray Henson
Oh, yeah. We haven't discussed the movie.
- [35:16]
Matt Koplik
Do we want to talk about the movie for a minute? So the. Well, they make changes in the movie Gray, which changes.
- [35:30]
Gray Henson
I don't remember well.
- [35:33]
Matt Koplik
So they. Well, one thing that they do that I don't like is that they add dialogue. Here's what I don't like about adding dialogue to Les Mis. In the same way that I don't like, they add dialogue to Ms. I. When you set a world where we're singing text, not just like my inner thoughts, but like, hey, how are you? And then the next scene, someone literally says, hey, how are you? Like, why are we not singing anymore? Like, it's. It's just. It's. It's whiplash. So there's. Yeah, they also. They change the placements of I Dreamed a Dream and One Day More. Because it used to be this actually the I dreamed dream change I like, because it used to be at the end of the day, I dreamed the dream. Lovely ladies in the movie, it's at the end of the day, Lovely ladies. I dreamed a dream.
- [36:21]
Gray Henson
Right. Yeah. We ultimately want to see. She sings that and dies in the movie. Movie. Right. But that doesn't happen in the. This show.
- [36:29]
Matt Koplik
What? The way it is in the show is like in a stage show. The way it goes is we are introduced to someone, they sing a song about who they are, and we go, great, I'm gonna follow you for an hour in a movie. It's like, I kind of need to follow you for an hour before I have you sing. Yeah, exactly. So that works for me. 1. My hot take is One Day More. That song is so incredible on stage. You could have cut it from the movie because, well, dip it. I have a thing. I love that song. Tell me what happens in it, storytelling wise. Anybody, tell me what happens?
- [37:07]
Gray Henson
Marius does make a decision in that song, Right?
- [37:10]
Matt Koplik
The one thing that happens is that the wet blanket decides to get off the towel rack. You know what you can do in a movie? You can have Eddie Redmayne just go boom and walk out the door. Done. Economy, baby. Yeah. And we could have gotten an extra verse of another song for that. Yeah, yeah.
- [37:30]
Gray Henson
Wait, so where does that fall in the movie then? I don't remember.
- [37:32]
Matt Koplik
So in the movie, it's the actual finale, but. Oh, sorry. No, it's not. One day more that they move, they move. Do you hear the people sing is what they move to. They put. Instead of it happening before in my life Heart full of love they do it after One day more Moore.
- [37:45]
Gray Henson
Okay.
- [37:46]
Matt Koplik
At the General. What's his name? Bismarck. No, but not Bismarck. Lamarck. Thank you, Lamarck. I was like, I know it's not dead. Yeah, Lamarck is dead. That's how I have to know. Lamarck is dead. Yeah. They do it at his. At his funeral.
- [38:01]
Gray Henson
Yeah.
- [38:02]
Matt Koplik
It's a wonderful moment.
- [38:03]
Gray Henson
What are your thoughts on the singing live on camera in the movie?
- [38:07]
Matt Koplik
If they did it like they did it in Wicked, I would have been thrilled. But Tom Hooper, the director, said, you know what I hate about musicals? When they sound good? Was that mean? I mean, there. I think there are some people. There are some people in that movie who I think are successful because you have people who actually can sing like Anne Hathaway. And then Tom Hooper is like, great, now make it sound like you haven't had water in seven days. And props her. This is why I do think she deserved that Oscar. She's like, okay, how do I serve Hooper while also knowing that if I don't hit these notes, the gays will have my butt. And so she hits every note she's supposed to. There are some people in the movie who do not hit their notes. Yeah. I'm also like, like sing. Bring him home live on set. That's totally fine.
- [39:08]
Gray Henson
Right.
- [39:08]
Matt Koplik
Why are we belting it right when everyone is sleeping? It's like three in the morning.
- [39:15]
Gray Henson
Right, right, right.
- [39:16]
Matt Koplik
It's supposed to be an intimate prayer with God and Hugh Jackman's like, you know what this song needs to be some roses turned bullshit.
- [39:23]
Gray Henson
Oh, God, yes. Yeah.
- [39:25]
Matt Koplik
Like, you guys remember that, right? Where.
- [39:27]
Gray Henson
Yeah.
- [39:28]
Matt Koplik
Where were you in your moment of life when you were watching Les Mis and you watched Hugh Jackman for the first time and he went, God, I can be very fair to a lot of people and I love Hugh. But, like, that was when I was. I was like, that's how you know that there was not a single homosexual in that room that day. Yeah. What about the movie do you think works?
- [39:56]
Gray Henson
Gosh, I mean, I don't know. For me, I think that the singing live was effective because it. It is so, like, raw and intense where on stage, like, I guess I dreamed a dream in the show is she's not at her rock bottom. So you don't get the intensity of the. The song in the way that you do with Anne singing it in the movie. Right. So I don't know. In that way, I think it. I don't. I think that perfect, pretty singing is often boring. Right. And so, I mean, not.
- [40:27]
Matt Koplik
Have you heard yourself sing? Gray. You sing very pretty.
- [40:29]
Gray Henson
No. Imperfect in many ways. And I think that that's human. Right. And so the story of Les Mis is like a story of humanity in many ways. And so I think in that way, I think the singing live was really exciting. And it was the first time that had really been done that way.
- [40:45]
Matt Koplik
No, for a score like that. There have been movies that have done the live stuff, but, like, in pieces.
- [40:50]
Gray Henson
Like what?
- [40:50]
Matt Koplik
Rex Harrison and My Fair lady did his stuff live on set. Yeah. There are a couple of other. I don't know if there's been a full movie prior to Les Mis. Yeah, there's one of the Love Me Tonight, maybe. I think they did it live on set. I can't recall what is Left Me Tonight. It's a Maurice Chevalier movie from the 30s. It's fine. No, it's a lovely movie. I'm sure we don't have to talk about it. It is French, though, then. I know Streisand sang a little live on Funny Girl. Yeah. I don't think any.
- [41:21]
Gray Henson
An entire movie. It's like.
- [41:22]
Matt Koplik
No, not. Yeah.
- [41:24]
Gray Henson
Since then. What has been done that way?
- [41:26]
Matt Koplik
Wicked's been done live.
- [41:27]
Gray Henson
Wicked. All of Wicked was done all of like.
- [41:29]
Matt Koplik
Well, so they say. I know they, like, they sang live on set. Whether everything we hear in the movie is from a live take is to be determined. Last five years, I know they sang live on set. I was on that set when they were filming. Still hurting. And I just remember being like, how is Anna Ketrick doing this, like, take after take after take? Because if you see in the movie, she, like, she's. She sings well, but most importantly, she's not, like, you don't see, like, the veins popping out of her head because it's. It's film acting. So it was very Anna Kendrick. Oh, yeah. And in last five years, the thing with a live singing, like, the intimacy, the immediacy, I love that.
- [42:05]
Gray Henson
Yeah.
- [42:05]
Matt Koplik
But then it's like, okay, can you also, like, sing the rhythms that are there? Can you, like, hit the notes that are there? You gotta. I think it's a blend, right? You want to get the emotion. You want. You want to feel it.
- [42:18]
Gray Henson
I think that's why those recorded concerts are so successful for Les mis.
- [42:23]
Matt Koplik
Is the 10th anniversary your go to when you listen to.
- [42:25]
Gray Henson
Yeah, I mean, that's the only one. I think that's also the album I would listen to over the original cast album.
- [42:30]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, well, it's also more of this. Okay, so. Okay, show of hands. Show of hands. We're going to see how this goes. Is your go to Les Mis recording the original London with Patty? Okay. I'm so glad she's not here. Original Broadway company with Randy Graf and Terrence Mann. It's a safe space, y'all. You heard me just say a lot of stuff today, so that's great. Yeah, you heard my Coonsey story. Like, we're all friends now. 10th anniversary Dreamcast. Okay, people, the symphonic recording. Well, it's the full score. There's another one. Oh, the lea Salonga, the 20th anniversary recording. That's the one with Jonas, Nick Jonas and alfie bow. Yeah. 2025. There's another one, though. The. Like, the revival that came back with Ramin.
- [43:22]
Gray Henson
Yeah, they.
- [43:23]
Matt Koplik
It was on tour before. It was on Broadway. Not with him, though. And they had a recording of that. It was live recording of that. Oh, am I. Am I crazy that the recording exists? Yeah. Okay. Movie soundtrack. Awesome. Stand tall and proud. So, like, okay, of all of the Valjeans, who's your go to?
- [43:43]
Gray Henson
Oh, the O.G. i mean, yes. And his voice is so iconic. Like, it's. There has never been another voice like that. I feel like the. The. I'm not even going to attempt it.
- [43:53]
Matt Koplik
But it's like, well, there's. There's Colm Wilkinson when the show begins, and then there's Colin Wilkinson by the time they do the 10th anniversary concert.
- [43:59]
Gray Henson
And what, he was like a caricature of himself?
- [44:01]
Matt Koplik
Little bit, yeah. I love that recording. But it's definitely him being like, I've been doing this for a while. When they're doing Fantine's death. And it's the. Take my hand, the night grows ever colder. And it's the. Then I will keep you warm. And I just heard him going, then I will keep you warm Dixata from the storm. And. And he has. Oh, he also does the Take my flight in the prologue when, you know, when he steals the candlesticks, he goes, yeah, took the silver. And it's supposed to be just took my flight, but this man had been doing it for so long, it was so in the pocket. He goes, took my flight. Like, all of a sudden, Elphaba was in the room. It was. It's me. And it was phenomenal. But, yeah, he's, you know, he's a great Valjean. Then who's your go to, Fantine?
- [44:51]
Gray Henson
Probably Lea Salonga. Yeah.
- [44:53]
Matt Koplik
Is she also your go to Eponine?
- [44:56]
Gray Henson
I would probably. It was Randy Graff. You said Ray Original on Broadway. That's.
- [45:00]
Matt Koplik
She was the original Fantine.
- [45:01]
Gray Henson
Oh, right.
- [45:01]
Matt Koplik
Frances Rafael was the original Eponine. Yes.
- [45:03]
Gray Henson
Her voice.
- [45:04]
Matt Koplik
Ooh, okay. Ooh. Okay, this is the one. Eponies, here we go. Frances Rafael, show of hands. Sweet Leah Salonga, show of hands. Samantha Barks, show of hands. Nikki M. James, show of hands. Celia Keenan Bolger, show of hands.
- [45:24]
Gray Henson
Oh, yes, she.
- [45:25]
Matt Koplik
She sure did that. I saw her do it. Her eponine was interesting. She decided that her eponine was always, like, kind of mid squat. And I'm not being mean. I'm not being mean.
- [45:37]
Gray Henson
Physically, always at a squat.
- [45:38]
Matt Koplik
Like, physically. She was always, like, kind of at a bent. And I always sort of viewed it as like, her eponine was like, I have to be ready to go at any moment. So she was always, like, in runner's position at any point, which I loved. I was like, oh, her Eponine is like a very sad, hungry jaguar. Yeah. Who are some other big eponines? Sutton Foster. There's a bootleg of Sutton Foster doing it. Who's seen that bootleg? Yeah, it's a good bootleg. Whoever filmed that bootleg is a friend or family member of Sutton Foster, because, as I said, everybody doubles. So at the end of the day, that camera is not on Fantine. It is on Sutton Foster as one of the mill workers. And I'm like, I want a friend in the audience. Just like that. Who are some other big eponines that I'm missing?
- [46:23]
Gray Henson
Gosh, I don't know.
- [46:25]
Matt Koplik
No, no. Lea Michele and the Hollywood Bowl. Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay, so fantine, then. Patti LuPone. Yeah.
- [46:37]
Gray Henson
Yeah. Pretty iconic, right?
- [46:38]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. She does a thing in her. Fantine. If you watch her on the Oliviers, she's singing I Dream. Dream. It's shortened. But she's, like, playing with the locket the entire time. And I just. I was like, I spent more time than I'm willing to admit. And considering that I told you all my Judy Kuhn story, that's saying something. I spent so much time watching that video, like, analyzing that locket spinning, because I'm like, what's going on with that? What's happening?
- [47:01]
Gray Henson
What do you think?
- [47:01]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, what's. I think it's her connection to the love that left her when autumn came.
- [47:06]
Gray Henson
Right.
- [47:06]
Matt Koplik
Which is a lyric. Her love to Cosette.
- [47:10]
Gray Henson
Right.
- [47:10]
Matt Koplik
And also, just, like, when you're having a bit of a breakdown, you need some. When you have, like, a panic attack, you need something to hold you to the ground. Right. So she's doing that. Comforting. Yeah, comforting. It's also a very nice wig. Okay, so Patti LuPone. Randy Graff.
- [47:22]
Gray Henson
Yes.
- [47:23]
Matt Koplik
Okay. What I will say about Randy Graf is that she's the only Fantine I've seen or heard when Fantine dies. Because it's, you know, it's the telekast that I love her and I'll see her when I wake.
- [47:32]
Gray Henson
Right.
- [47:32]
Matt Koplik
Most Fantines are like, well, I'm dying, right? So, like, my last breath's gonna be Randy Graf's. Like, well, if I'm dying, I want to, like, I want to go out. So she's. She belts the end of it. She goes, tell her that I love her. I'll see her when I wink. And I was like, it's kind of.
- [47:48]
Gray Henson
A. I love that choice.
- [47:49]
Matt Koplik
Right? It's like, if Mariah Carey played Fantine, you're like, it's like, I may be gone, but I'm not forgotten.
- [47:54]
Gray Henson
Right?
- [47:55]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [47:55]
Gray Henson
Yeah.
- [47:56]
Matt Koplik
Ruthie Henshaw, Fantine. Who's. Yes, people. Yeah. Annie hath. Yes. Listen, say what you will about the movie, she is good in that movie. And I feel like we've all come around on her again. Right? Yeah. She's always been important to me.
- [48:10]
Gray Henson
Right.
- [48:10]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Her and Princess Diaries, that was my introduction to the blowout haircut. I didn't know that that was a thing until I saw that movie. And then every girl who had a bat mitzvah the following year had the same Princess diary haircut. Yeah. There's another one. Leah Salonga. Yes. There's no general consensus on our Fantines. We seem to have more of a consensus on our eponines. Who's another Casey Levy? Casey. Yeah.
- [48:34]
Gray Henson
And then Erica Henningsen replaced her.
- [48:35]
Matt Koplik
She sure did. I saw Erica do it.
- [48:37]
Gray Henson
Did you really?
- [48:37]
Matt Koplik
Huh. I saw. Because Melissa Mitchell was in that show, and I saw her go on for Cosette when Erica had replaced.
- [48:45]
Gray Henson
She was really young to have booked.
- [48:46]
Matt Koplik
That she was that part.
- [48:48]
Gray Henson
But I guess she's talent supposed. I guess.
- [48:50]
Matt Koplik
I guess she's talented, but that part.
- [48:52]
Gray Henson
Normally, I guess, is played by someone older. But the character is supposed to be a young woman, Right?
- [48:57]
Matt Koplik
Well, yeah. There's a difference between being 20 years old in 1870 and being 20 years old today. Like, we have. We have skin care regiments. If you have a child out of wedlock, you can become an Instagram influencer. You don't get fired from your job. You don't have to sell your two front teeth. You can take pictures of your feet. Like, it's a different world.
- [49:17]
Gray Henson
Not. Not that.
- [49:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, you don't have to sell your hair. Just things like. Things like that. So, yeah, I think I do think you should be, like, around 30 plus if you're playing Fantine. Just, you know. Yeah, yeah. Also, it gives you a dichotomy if you're going against, like, the students who are probably gonna be 20, 25. Your feet. What kind of voice do you like to hear when you listen to a Les Mis? That kind of sound.
- [49:40]
Gray Henson
What kind of sound do I like to hear when I hear Les Mis? A full sound. I mean, the opposite of a pop sound.
- [49:47]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, yeah. Like a full throated. Yeah, full throated.
- [49:50]
Gray Henson
I think so. Yeah. I mean, yeah. It's epic music, right? You want it? To me, Les Mis is Broadway. Like, that's what I think of when I think of a Broadway show. Yeah.
- [49:59]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I agree with that. There's the. I feel like Les Mis inspired a kind of singing in the 1990s that I'm obsessed with. It's why. Okay, so again, show of hands, we're all familiar with the ragtime. Yes, yes. Marin Mazzie, that talk about an arc. That's a woman spends two and a half hours learning how to belt. That's true. Back to before it Was called I've Learned how to Belt. So. Ragtime, Titanic, Sideshow. Yeah. Tunnel of Love, Baby. Those are, like, big things that I feel like are influenced because of the Les Mis of it all.
- [50:33]
Gray Henson
Totally. Yeah, it's.
- [50:34]
Matt Koplik
But. But the thing is that in the. So, okay, here's where the 90s take the wrong lessons from Les Mis, because Les Mis is big singing, but it's a big story. Right. You're covering 30 years.
- [50:43]
Gray Henson
Yeah. Epic.
- [50:44]
Matt Koplik
There's bread and convicts and, you know, teeth missing and things like that. I'll never get over the teeth thing, but that, like, so that require. And, like, oh, I've been fired from my job and I may die. So, like, it's the big singing something like Sideshow, where you're on a fairground ride with your conjoined sister, your manager, and your possibly gay composer. Like, high stakes. Ish. Is it high stakes enough that you should be belting an E for 10 seconds long? I'm not convinced. It's very different worlds, Right. It's. It's like. It's the difference between singing your guts out because it's life or death or singing your guts out because you need someone to pass the Salt. And the 90s were a lot of musicals where it was like, pass the assault.
- [51:35]
Gray Henson
Right?
- [51:36]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [51:38]
Gray Henson
But it's earned in Les Mis.
- [51:39]
Matt Koplik
Of course. Of course it's earned in Les Mis because, you know, it's all about life, death, and I hate to say it, but God. God is really the princess track of that show.
- [51:49]
Gray Henson
Sure, yeah. It doesn't do much, but it's.
- [51:53]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, He. God is the Reddit threat of that show because he's just sort of sitting there having opinions about everyone and not doing anything to change it.
- [52:01]
Gray Henson
It's classic God.
- [52:03]
Matt Koplik
Classic God. My Lord.
- [52:04]
Gray Henson
Do you think we're due for a revival of it? I mean, I know it's touring right now.
- [52:08]
Matt Koplik
I mean, I. Yes, yes.
- [52:13]
Gray Henson
It was a while. Yeah, it's been a while.
- [52:15]
Matt Koplik
I would want a turntable again, though.
- [52:17]
Gray Henson
Was there not a turntable in this last one?
- [52:18]
Matt Koplik
No, we got projections instead.
- [52:20]
Gray Henson
Mmm.
- [52:21]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [52:21]
Gray Henson
That's how you do that a lot.
- [52:23]
Matt Koplik
That's how you know that we're. We're lesser than we were in the.
- [52:26]
Gray Henson
Right. Wait. Also sidebar, when I saw the Celia version. What year was that?
- [52:32]
Matt Koplik
Oh, six.
- [52:33]
Gray Henson
Yeah, six. I saw the Night where. And I think there's a famous bootleg of this where Gary beach didn't come on stage for his entrance as to Nardier, and, like, he just wasn't there. And so the whole ensemble was just killing time. They're like, get out here to nardier for, like, five, 10 minutes. Oh, and everyone. The audience was like, something's definitely wrong. But they kept it going for some reason. And then finally he came out and I think had fallen asleep in his dressing room or something.
- [52:58]
Matt Koplik
Okay, so I didn't know that.
- [52:59]
Gray Henson
Yeah, I was there that night.
- [53:01]
Matt Koplik
That's the third story I've now heard of Les Mis where a major person did not come on for their entrance.
- [53:06]
Gray Henson
What are the others?
- [53:06]
Matt Koplik
So there's a Patty story, and there's a Colin Wilkinson story. I'm assuming half this room knows the Patty story. We'll tell it. Anyway. They're in London. I think they've transferred to the Palace Theater at this point. And they're like, six months into the run, and Patty's living her best princess track life. And she decides, okay, I'm dead now. I'm not gonna listen to the show anymore. I'm gonna read a magazine. I'm gonna turn off the. The intercom. Before she knows it, they're at the end of the show, and she's not there as Ghostfantine to, like, welcome Valjean to the Pearly Gates and the Javert, like, run in and be like, like. So she's like, I left Cole Wilkinson on stage alone for 10 bars of music. So she, like, goes downstairs and runs on and has to go on, like, enter from a different side. So, like, the audience and I just heard, you know, I am ready, Fantine at the end of my day.
- [54:01]
Gray Henson
But just by himself.
- [54:02]
Matt Koplik
Just by himself, I would. That's like the John Doyle production of Les Mis, where it's like, there's no Fantine. It's just Valjean having a vision to himself.
- [54:14]
Gray Henson
Fantine is like a. She's a flute. Yeah.
- [54:16]
Matt Koplik
Fantine instrument. Fantine is an empty chair at an empty table. Wow. Wow. But here's where the poetic justice comes. A year later, Randy Graf tells us this story. Randy Graf is dying as Fantine on her deathbed. And she's doing Come to Me, Cosette. The light is fading. And the way the original staging was, she gets out of her bed and crawls to the lip of the stage. And that's when Valjean's supposed to come on and lift her up and you. And it's. You know, she knows that he's there because you hear, oh, Fantine, our time is running out. But she's just sitting there, and she goes. And soon it will be light. And just. You hear Mm. And she's like, he's nowhere around. So not only. And eventually, you hear on the intercom, oh, shit. And it's Colm Wilkinson's mic from backstage. And he's, like, in his dressing room. Eventually, he runs on and, like. And grabs her, and she says, like, the entire scene, he's being like, oh, Fantine, your child will offer nothing. Randy, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. But what she said was because she had to be back in the bed by that point, and he wasn't there, and she's supposed to be dying, so. Gray, I'm gonna ask you to speak into the mic. What you see for the people who are listening to this podcast down the road.
- [55:27]
Gray Henson
He's standing up, she's here. He's on his knees. She. He's dragging himself to the bed. The legs don't work. He's reaching out.
- [55:46]
Matt Koplik
And that's when Colm came in, and I just pushed her into the bed.
- [55:49]
Gray Henson
That's kind of incredible.
- [55:51]
Matt Koplik
Boom.
- [55:52]
Gray Henson
Yeah.
- [55:54]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [55:54]
Gray Henson
I think we should add that into every production.
- [55:57]
Matt Koplik
I think so. Make Contein really struggle. We are wrapping things up. We've got about three minutes to go.
- [56:02]
Gray Henson
Great.
- [56:03]
Matt Koplik
Gray, last question here from Discord. How would you rate Les Mis on a scale of, what, 1 to 10? 1 to 2? 1 to 90.
- [56:15]
Gray Henson
Okay. 1 to 10? I don't know. I would give Les Mis. I think I'd have to give Les mis, like, a 9.9.5. I think it's almost a 10.
- [56:23]
Matt Koplik
Almost? Yeah.
- [56:27]
Gray Henson
What would you give it?
- [56:29]
Matt Koplik
Well, when it's three hours long, I give it a 10. When it's. When it's 245, I give it a 9.
- [56:33]
Gray Henson
Yeah.
- [56:33]
Matt Koplik
Because that's like, everyone's. When it's 2 hours and 45 minutes, it's. That's one where it's, like, a little too fast for me.
- [56:39]
Gray Henson
Totally.
- [56:40]
Matt Koplik
Usually I'm a big fan of people kind of picking the pace up when there's a lot of dead air. That was. That's the case from, like. I don't need anyone in Les Mis to have a Celsius before. Like, just have a nice green tea and do the show, you know?
- [56:53]
Gray Henson
Yeah.
- [56:54]
Matt Koplik
Is it in your top five shows?
- [56:55]
Gray Henson
Oh, yeah. Definitely.
- [56:56]
Matt Koplik
Definitely.
- [56:56]
Gray Henson
Yeah. I love that it's sunk through, too. I don't know. It just flies by when it's sunk through. I love a sunk through musical.
- [57:02]
Matt Koplik
If someone were to roll their eyes at you when you say, I love Les Mis, and they go, ugh, Les Mis.
- [57:08]
Gray Henson
How do I respond to that.
- [57:09]
Matt Koplik
How do you respond to that?
- [57:10]
Gray Henson
Get out. Get out of the room. You don't get it. I don't know. I would punch them in the face.
- [57:17]
Matt Koplik
No, that's Andras Energy, not Marius.
- [57:21]
Gray Henson
I've grown up.
- [57:22]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I think that's. We're all idyllic like Marius. Then we grow up and we. We become enjoyed, weathered. Yes, yes. Yeah. I think the real tragedy is thinking that you're an eponine and then you're actually factory girl number three in life.
- [57:34]
Gray Henson
That's a good track, though. That's a really.
- [57:36]
Matt Koplik
It's a good track. And one over here. Little innocence sister.
- [57:39]
Gray Henson
I know.
- [57:40]
Matt Koplik
I love that. That might be a show that I can actually recite the entire show start to finish.
- [57:44]
Gray Henson
Yeah, I can pretty. I'm pretty close.
- [57:46]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, yeah, it's. It's. I don't look at that as a super nerd dumb thing. I think that shows our true colors as totally.
- [57:52]
Gray Henson
You should have just done that for an hour.
- [57:54]
Matt Koplik
Just all the.
- [57:54]
Gray Henson
If we can get through the show.
- [57:56]
Matt Koplik
So actually, when I was a waiter at a restaurant, Times Square adjacent, I was like a waiter with a whole bunch of actors, and we all knew Les Mis and we would close at 11:00pm every night. And when it got to be 8:00, we would all look at each other and we would all mentally. And we would look at each other, we would nod and go, bum, bum, bum, bum. Because we're like, by the time I finish Les Mis in my head, my shift will be done. And that is how a lot of us got through shifts. So we would just look at each other. Yeah. That's how you become friends with straight boys, is you go, okay. If we're gonna sing Les Mis in our heads together. Yeah.
- [58:31]
Gray Henson
Are you sure they were straight?
- [58:32]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, that or Floyd Collins, but I don't know Floyd Collins super well.
- [58:35]
Gray Henson
All right.
- [58:35]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Gray, this has been delightful.
- [58:37]
Gray Henson
What a treat.
- [58:37]
Matt Koplik
What treat? Where can people find you if you want them to find you?
- [58:40]
Gray Henson
Gray Henson at Instagram. Gray Hinson.
- [58:42]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, Yeah, I am on Instagram only at. Matt Koplik. Usual spelling. If you like the podcast, give us a nice listen on. On Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Whatever. Give us a nice five star rating. Everything helps. Yeah. Oh, oh, thank you. Thank you again for joining us today. Don't forget to follow us at Broadway Podcast Network and Broadway Breakdown or Matt Goplick. Thank you. And listen to the episode when it airs on BPN FM or wherever you get your podcast. Thank you so much, everybody.