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- [00:16]
Alan Seals
Why not? Think of the prestige. No. Think of the respect. No, no, no. Think of the Tony. Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony.
- [00:28]
Matt Koplik
Hello all you theater lovers, both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history and legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And with us today is one of the daddies of the Broadway Podcast network. You know him from his own podcast, the Theater Podcast. Very apropos name. With Alan Seals, it is Alan Seals. Hello, Alan.
- [00:56]
Alan Seals
Oh, hello. So happy to hear the domain was available. So I bought it and that became my podcast name. That's the story.
- [01:04]
Matt Koplik
Someone had to get it. And you were just the smart one who got it first.
- [01:08]
Alan Seals
I got ER and re. I got both.
- [01:12]
Matt Koplik
Listen, Jeff Bezos over here of the theater scene, like, taking over all of it.
- [01:17]
Alan Seals
Well, I do have my robot stepping into interview for me now, so if I start to glitch out during this interview, then, you know, that's what's going on.
- [01:25]
Matt Koplik
That's no way to speak of the survival Jobs podcast, Alan. They're more than just robots and you know it. Alan, where are we catching you today?
- [01:35]
Alan Seals
I am home in Zebroucklands. And yeah, I just came inside from a rousing hot game of playing basketball with my boys in the backyard with soccer balls and a soccer goal. So you. Yeah, you know, we're creative.
- [01:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, sounds. Sounds like a great day for you.
- [01:57]
Alan Seals
You know, like straight. Straight guy stuff, I guess. I don't know.
- [02:00]
Matt Koplik
I've heard of them in the past. Ellen, I don't know if you know this. We're in the middle of awards season for.
- [02:05]
Alan Seals
For.
- [02:05]
Matt Koplik
For Broadway.
- [02:06]
Alan Seals
I've never heard of Broadway.
- [02:08]
Matt Koplik
No, You've never seen a single show or spoken to a single person about it?
- [02:12]
Alan Seals
No.
- [02:13]
Matt Koplik
No. But yeah, we're. We are. We're not even knee deep anymore. We are chest deep. We are really in the thick of it. All of the quote unquote, preliminary awards have happened, so we just have another two to three weeks until the Tonys. But they're. They are coming.
- [02:29]
Alan Seals
They are coming fast. And I think there's going to be probably be a few upsets I. I'm predicting, but we'll get. We'll get into that. But yeah, I guess. Where do you want to start? With the upsets? With the snubs? With the.
- [02:45]
Matt Koplik
Well, first, I want to ask you sort of what's been your experience this year with. With the awards Stuff. Have you been at any of the ceremonies? Have you been sort of in the mix with any of them?
- [02:59]
Alan Seals
Interestingly enough, personally, this past spring I was one of the lead producers on When Playwrights Kill, which had its out of town run in Boston at the Huntington Theater. And I was just kind of like, I don't know, that was pushing me into the quicksand in a way that I hadn't experienced before. So by the time that ended, it was right when award season started. And I was like, I just need to take a breath for a second and go play soccer ball basket hoops with my kids and get back to ground myself for a second. So I've purposely kind of just been letting it all happen around me this season while still seeing as much as I can. But personally, from a podcast perspective, not getting on, I don't, I don't need the luncheons and the junkets and the meet and greets and like, I don't, I don't know. I don't know. It seems to have lost its, a little bit of its shininess for me.
- [03:59]
Matt Koplik
I think that happens when you start doing something consistently and for work stops being like a cool, as you said, shiny thing. I was, I was at something the other day where, where somebody was like, oh, so what are you up to tomorrow? I was like, I'm going to the drama desk awards for a second time. And I realized like, if this were five years ago, I would have been like, can you believe it? I'm going. And for some reason this year it's all kind of exhausting me. So I'm only human. I can only be wide eyed and optimistic for so long. I've become small eyed and cynical now.
- [04:42]
Alan Seals
But you're already cynical in the past. Now you're just a little bit more small eyed.
- [04:46]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, well, now that I've, now that I've seen a little bit more behind the curtain, I just, I'm even more so. I'm, I don't smoke, but I want to have a cigarette in my hand. To just constantly be like the bullshit.
- [05:02]
Alan Seals
Yes. No, I get that. I, I do get that. It's, it's a game. I mean, this is an industry of smoke and mirrors in so many ways. On a literal level and on a metaphorical meta level, just ultimately of like, you want everyone to believe in your project no matter what it takes. And awards only get you so far. You want to get the awards so you can get farther, but then you have to rely on the story and the music and all these Other things that actually matter. Not saying awards don't matter. Don't come at me. But the awards are over. You have to keep going, and you have to build on that. And I've talked about this in my podcast ad nauseam. You're only kind of as good as your last job in a lot of cases, just because that's the perception you have of you as a performer or even a producer or a creative.
- [05:53]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I find that. I think, for me, what it is, is I do enjoy the awards. I don't do the sports like you do. So this is like the closest I have to March Madness and, you know, fantasy football and shit like that.
- [06:07]
Alan Seals
Breaking as we are recording. Beaches just announced closing.
- [06:10]
Matt Koplik
Oh, okay. It finally happened.
- [06:14]
Alan Seals
Yes. Let's see. Beaches, Broadway. My. My texts are blowing up. So let's see. Beaches new musical scheduled to play its final performance on September 6, 2026. That's actually longer than I thought it was going to last.
- [06:26]
Matt Koplik
That September 6th is. It is the. When they were supposed to close, but now.
- [06:31]
Alan Seals
Oh, now it's this Sunday.
- [06:33]
Matt Koplik
Yes, they are closing on Sunday, May 24th. They were due to close on September 6th.
- [06:37]
Alan Seals
Wow. Didn't even get a week.
- [06:39]
Matt Koplik
No. Well, they could have gotten two weeks if they had, you know, announced it when they probably shouldn't have. But everyone knows that Dreamgirls wants the Majestic. But also, like, Dreamgirls was gonna get the Majestic anyway. Cause Beaches was gonna close in September anyway. So when people were like, saying, oh, is. Is. Why isn't Beaches announced closing yet? I'm like, if the producers want to keep spending money, give the actors their health weeks, let them go for it. No one's taking that the Till December anyway. Like, it's fine. It's fine.
- [07:07]
Alan Seals
No, no. And it's gonna be fine. And I think, you know, yeah, Dream girls, maybe they'll get a little bit of extra time. Who knows? But I mean, again, being on, like, the creative side of all this now, it's. It's all just like, what room you're in with what person at what time. And again, it is. It is being in the room where it happens, which is a lot of luck sometimes. And it's a very insular industry that I don't have a correct way of ending this statement. It's the people that you know that get you where you want to be. Right.
- [07:38]
Matt Koplik
Well, something you had said earlier that I gravitate towards is sort of, you know, you're only as good as your last job. But that's also kind of why no one will ever really know what the truth is about a show's situation until that body is cold. And it's been a year or two, maybe even a little bit longer. And the people who tend to tell the truth about maybe unhappy productions are the people who either have given up on the industry or people who've gotten more successful since said show. Part of the reason why Laura Benanti is able to be a truth teller about her time on Broadway is because Girl has so much TV money now.
- [08:14]
Alan Seals
Yeah. She's moved on beyond that.
- [08:15]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. She's like, oh, I'll tell you about how awful that show was, but everyone else is sort of like, yeah, no, you're doing a job and you don't know if you're gonna get hired again. It doesn't behoove you to. On. I don't know, let's say your director while you're in a show accepting awards.
- [08:32]
Alan Seals
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And because ultimately the casting director works for the director and the production and the producers. And the producers still have final say. I mean, you can go at it and have a fight with the director, but director wants it and the producers don't. Usually the producer is going to have their way.
- [08:49]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [08:50]
Alan Seals
Or vice versa.
- [08:51]
Matt Koplik
But what makes it weird. So. So as I said, I was at the drama desks on Sunday. No, yeah, Sunday. And I had a friend who had. Was at the Drama league that Friday, and they were texting me while I was at the drama desk. And then I was sort of confirming with them in the drama league, which is essentially that there were certain winners that the room felt very odd about. And it was one of those things where if you go on social media, if you go in interviews or whatever, like, you would never believe that, you know, anybody would have any kind of anything less than a stellar reception in the room and they would win an award. And yet there were certain win. We both were like, is it my imagination? Or like, was there. Was their applause kind of muted? And. No, I thought. I thought the same thing. So it's just. It's one of those things where, like, maybe nobody says it, but how. How a thousand strangers in a theater react when you win an award is kind of should give you an inclination of how people actually feel about you,
- [09:48]
Alan Seals
which I guess tell me your opinion on the voters versus the general audience.
- [09:55]
Matt Koplik
I mean, that's sort of the conundrum of, as a voter, you're supposed to kind of be a voter because your insight and your knowledge is supposed to be of such that, like, you're kind of a tastemaker for theater. Like, you're supposed to be the final voice on it. And yet I will say some awards bodies don't always do that. You see this happening with the Oscars a lot. Like, the Oscars have made it a very. Have made it their mission to diversify their voting body, have more women included, more younger voters included, have people of color included. And you see that reflecting in the winners in the last couple of years and especially in the nominees. And the Tonys have diversified a bit. Not as much as they should, but a bit. What hasn't diversified is the quote, unquote precursors. The drama desks, the outer critic circles, the drama leagues. Which is why you often see such a pivot in nominations and in voting for shows at the Tony Awards. I talk about this on the pod a lot. The Tony Awards are not the Oscars in the sense that the Tonys don't have genuine precursors. I've said this a lot, guys, so if you know what I'm talking about, deal with it. The OSCARs have the SAG awards, the actor Awards now. Writers Guild, Director's Guild, Producers Guild and bafta. All those award shows. Those voters also vote at the Oscars and so you can get an idea of which way the wind is blowing. Of like, oh, the international voters at BAFTA really liked Honora so Anora could really win. Oh, SAG voted for Michael P. Jordan. Fuck. Like, maybe he's winning actor now. And that's what sort of happens. As far as I'm aware, no one at the Outer Critics Circle Awards votes at the Tonys. I don't believe anyone at the Drama Desk Awards vote for them either. Drama League. It's like a very small percentage of those voters do of like the producers on that front. But a lot of. I would say the vast majority of voters at the Drama League are members who are simply theater fans who paid to be a member and get to vote. Which is why their spread is so good. Because when you go to the Drama League, the food they serve you is exceptional and it's because they have the money to spend. But it was just so. It's so fascinating when, you know, people are voting on all of these and people go, oh, well, clearly that's now what's going to happen. And like, yeah, sometimes it does because some things are undeniable. You know, Hamilton winning Best Musical is undeniable. It's not like the drama leagues predicted that. It's not like outer criticism circle predicted maybe happy ending was going to win Last year, it's like, no, everyone knew maybe happy ending was going to win. Like it was just objectively the runaway musical. The algorithm feeds you back what you want to hear so people can create narratives for their fandom and believe that what they want to win or will be in your.
- [12:57]
Alan Seals
In your own echo chamber. That's literally how the social media algorithms are engineered. To work is to give you what you already. What it knows you already like to keep you on their platform longer and therefore earn more ad doll off of you.
- [13:10]
Matt Koplik
One could say the same of Broadway, Alan. What?
- [13:12]
Alan Seals
No way.
- [13:14]
Matt Koplik
No, it's not.
- [13:15]
Alan Seals
Capitalism hasn't found its way into Broadway.
- [13:18]
Matt Koplik
No, it doesn't tell you what you want to hear in four part harmony and then. And then have you come back and support it again and again and again. But you know, enough. Enough about sephs. That's a cheap shot. I didn't even really mean that Water for Elephants doesn't have the same. The same punchline to it.
- [13:40]
Alan Seals
Outsiders. No, not same punchline either.
- [13:42]
Matt Koplik
There's absolutely nothing political about outsiders. It's simply just testosterone.
- [13:46]
Alan Seals
Wet testosterone, which I could watch over and over again. And I'm straight.
- [13:50]
Matt Koplik
Yes, you tell us again, Alan, how straight you are. Tell us more about basketball, Alan.
- [13:56]
Alan Seals
Basket. Shooty. Hoopsie. Soccer ball. Eagles.
- [13:58]
Matt Koplik
I shot the ball somewhere. But we digress. So this is all to say we're now in this. In this heat of the season, but as somebody who hasn't really been in the thick of the pre awards, and you're kind of getting back into the conversations of it all. What, like, what have you been hearing about the awards this year?
- [14:19]
Alan Seals
I am surprised at the people who walked away hating on Schmigadoon. I. It was. It was good. It was good. I don't think it's worth hating. And then there's good and bad with everything. The little curl in your mouth says that you hated it too.
- [14:41]
Matt Koplik
No, no, this is how everyone knows you're not a listener. Because you didn't listen to my rankings episode where I ranked all the shows this season. No, I did not hate showing a dune. I liked it. I liked it fine. But also, I have also spoken to a few voters who, like, quite hated it. But also I. I have spoken to a handful of voters in each section who, like, each hated one of the best musical nominees. And I think hate is a very strong word for all four of them. I have my personal favorite. But, like, even the ones that I'm sort of mid on, I'm not like, oh, I hate it. I'm sort of like, yeah, I'm mid on it.
- [15:15]
Alan Seals
Yeah, yeah, no, I, I, I wanted to go in not liking Lost Boys too because I'm not a fan of, of like a adapted IP anymore. Because I want original stuff. I want the maybe happy endings. I want something that's standing on its own and can and can last on its own and something like, you know, Titanique, Two Strangers, great. Lost Boys and Schmigadoo. And I was like, oh, this is all adapted. And then I was blown away. Blown away by Lost Boys. I am one of the lovers of that show.
- [15:48]
Matt Koplik
What's Two Strangers adapted from?
- [15:50]
Alan Seals
No, it's not. It's not. That's what I mean.
- [15:52]
Matt Koplik
Oh, so sorry.
- [15:53]
Alan Seals
Like Two Strangers and Titanic are the two that are not.
- [15:55]
Matt Koplik
Well, no, no, Titanic is adapted from Titanic, Alan.
- [15:58]
Alan Seals
Well,
- [16:01]
Matt Koplik
famously so.
- [16:03]
Alan Seals
Okay, fine.
- [16:04]
Matt Koplik
No, but, but it, it's not a straightforward adaptation for sure. Like they, they basically go, okay, how do we make Titanic as a movie 40 minutes long, then throw in Celine Dion songs and then add another 30 minutes of our crazy.
- [16:20]
Alan Seals
So did you like Titanique?
- [16:22]
Matt Koplik
I love Titanique.
- [16:23]
Alan Seals
Good. Okay, we can still be friends.
- [16:26]
Matt Koplik
You didn't have a choice in that, babe. That was always gonna happen with us. The, the of the four, Titanique is my personal favorite. I think that what I'm surprised by is when Two Strangers opened because there was such a narrative of like, oh, this is gonna be the front runner and like they just have to hold on till spring. Like the chatter around right now is like not really big on Two Strangers. It's really more. When the nominations came out, I thought it was going to be like a three way race among two strangers, Lost Boys and Schmigadoon. And it now really kind of feels like a two way race between Schmigadoon and Lost Boys, with Schmigadoon kind of coming out ahead.
- [17:06]
Alan Seals
Really?
- [17:06]
Matt Koplik
That's from what I've been hearing, really.
- [17:10]
Alan Seals
I've talked to more people who thought Schmegadin was just mid and then I guess, well, maybe I'm answering my own, my own flabbergastation. That's a word from Wicked that I just made up. I'm flabbergast debated in that more people thought spaghetti was mid and then there's more extremes for Lost Boys in Titanique and so go ahead.
- [17:35]
Matt Koplik
If, if there's extremes for Titanic, I will, I will be thrilled. I would love that.
- [17:41]
Alan Seals
No, I haven't met anybody who didn't like it, but the people that I have met said they've heard from people who didn't like it. But I mean, I'm sad for them being in the St. James because they have to close the second balcony, the third level, because it's just too big of a house. So it can't last as long as it's going to need to to build up a lot of audience base, a lot of momentum. Just because they took the house that was available to them. I think, you know, it's a, it's a business move. You move in, you get the Tony noms, you say, so then when you go touring. They've already announced the tour that was announced this morning too. National tour of Titanique. They're like, also now it's a Tony nominated tour, whereas before it was just a very successful off Broadway tour. Right. Like, yeah, it, it holds more cachet.
- [18:24]
Matt Koplik
I mean, that's part of the reason why they did go to Broadway. Like when they announced the tour today, everyone was going and news that no one needed to hear. Not because we didn't want it, but because we all. No, like, we know, girl. It's that I think you should leave sketch where it's like someone drove a hot dog car in the middle of the window and what's his face comes out on the hot dog outfit. He's like, guys, who could have done that? No, I, I definitely have heard from people who really enjoy Titanique. I don't think any of them are going to take it seriously enough to give it best Musical. My hunch is that if it, if it leads to anything, it could lead to a Leighton Williams win. Because I know that that's a performance that a lot of people have been really raving about. I'm not holding out hope for it. I'm not like putting money down. But I am saying, like, of all the Titanique options to win, that's the one that I think could happen. I think I do still think Two Strangers has a good shot. It's just that I feel like people are talking about it less and less. And whether you like or didn't like Schmigadoon, that is ultimately eating up more of the conversation than people's thoughts on Two Strangers.
- [19:31]
Alan Seals
That's true. And I hear people talking specifically more about Christiani Pitts than Sarah Chase. If we're talking about those two shows specifically, too. Right. So I hear people talking about Marla Mandel, Christiani Pitts, and occasionally Stephanie Hsu, but I don't, I don't know. I don't. Yeah, I, I think, I think the, the Best leading actress in a musical. I think that's going to be a race between Cristiani and. And Casey. Do you want to say too, like, I. I'm right. I think.
- [20:08]
Matt Koplik
I think Casey's winning. It's. Yeah, I do. I. I guess so. I guess we can talk about the Ragtime of it all, because that is sort of what I was alluding to earlier, which is it's. It's no secret on this podcast that I'm mid on Ragtime kind of in general. I love the score. I've never really bought the musical itself. This production doesn't make me like it less. It doesn't make me like it more. I think this production is just sort of whatever. What sells it is the performances. What doesn't sell it for me is pretty much everything else. Now. Ragtime and Lear have been winning all of the pre Tony awards she and Ragtime won at the Outer Critics Circle, which a lot of people online were like, what the fuck is that? I kind of sat here going, I mean, I think she was always going to win that. And same thing with the Drama desk. It was like they rarely give it to the director of an off Broadway musical. Angelica Ball wasn't eligible in either of those CAT Awards, so, like, it was always kind of going to be her. Where people kind of lost their shit was when she and Ragtime wanted the drama leagues over Jellicoe Ball because that was like the one award that they were that they could have won. And I, again, I maintain, like, I'm not. I don't look at that as like, Jellicoe Ball being over again. 95% of the voters of the Drama leagues do not vote at the Tonys and the. But the room at the Drama League is filled with members and members of the community because all of these shows that are nominated, a lot of their cast and their creative get to go. And the same thing was true with the Drama Desks. And at the Drama Desks, what had happened was they announced the nominees for Director of a Musical and they announced Lear first. And she gets kind of like tepid applause. And then they announce the director of Spelling Bee who got massive applause and the director of Mexicus who got massive applause. And I think Lear was the only director of a Broadway musical in that category. I don't think that Gattelli or Michael Arden were nominated. But anyway, they announced that Lear was the winner. The room again was very tepid to her win. It was very like. And they were, listen, they were effusive when Josh Henry won and Casey Levy won. It was a nice round of applause when Ragtime won as a revival, but her applause was tepid. And so then a friend who was at the drama leagues was like, that was the same response that she got when she won there. And then she proceeded to give a speech about the importance of her show while standing right in front of Jalen Levingston for Jellicoe Ball, which is just the ultimate American fiction. When the white people on. On the board tell Jeffrey Wright, I just think we should award this book that you don't, like because we need to, like, listen to black voices while you can. Call me a hater all you want. I was at Town hall when she won, and the audience was not thrilled.
- [22:53]
Alan Seals
So how does. Okay, okay, that's where.
- [22:56]
Matt Koplik
But that's, that's what I'm saying. Like, half of that audience or in like, the Tony conversation knew the story or, or like, or we're not thrilled with her win in general. But like, yeah, I. And I'm. I'm. I. I'm swearing to you I'm not being biased. I, I was in my row and everyone was talking about it. We're like, that wasn't. That wasn't really the effusive applause of a winner. And then a producer friend of mine at drama leagues was like, yeah, no, that's. It was the same thing there, too. And so what it is, is, like, clearly, like, she has the people who enjoy her work, the voters of these bodies, but, like, those people are not the ones in the rooms talking to these people as well.
- [23:36]
Alan Seals
Yeah.
- [23:37]
Matt Koplik
And then I ran into a drama desk voter and they brought up Lear to me and how they were like, should have been the Mexican guy. That's who I voted for. I was like, oh, well, you know, Lear 1. And he goes, yeah, because people don't do their research. And I went, oh, it's like we're just saying that out in the lotly. I mean, I just repeated it on mic, but I didn't say who it was.
- [23:59]
Alan Seals
Well, okay, okay, okay. So then from an ethical standpoint, are you. Are you voting for the person or the person's work?
- [24:07]
Matt Koplik
That's the thing. I would.
- [24:09]
Alan Seals
Objectively. Objectively wasn't good direction.
- [24:12]
Matt Koplik
I thought not. That's the other thing. Like, here, Bob Fosse only choreographed half a pajama game. Jerome Robbins choreographed the other half. That's very well known now. So it's not like this is unheard of. There is the story that Martin Charnin lost director of a musical For Annie, because everyone just assumed that Mike Nichols directed it for him. Now they claim that's not the case, and maybe it's not the case. Although I would say post Annie, what did. What has Martin Charnon directed that would make you think that he's a directing genius? And what has Mike Nichols directed post Annie that would make you think he's a directing genius?
- [24:47]
Alan Seals
Sometimes you get, you know, broken clocks. Always try. Right. Twice a day, you know, whatever that is.
- [24:51]
Matt Koplik
I think people would be a little less upset about that. All of that turmoil and. And even those who don't know about the bar chair stuff. There's definitely a stank on seeing Chris Catelli's name in the Playbill as a creative consultant, where it's like, everyone who works in this industry is like, I know what the. That means. I think they would care less about that if they thought the production itself were strong enough.
- [25:13]
Alan Seals
It's. It's interesting to me, I guess. I mean, yeah, the. The Tony voters I do know and the drama desk voters and everybody, like, they. They do. Like, I've had some people, like, offhand just say, like, I don't like that person.
- [25:25]
Matt Koplik
I can't.
- [25:26]
Alan Seals
Or the way they treat their cast or the way they treat so and so. Like, there's a lot of stuff that just, you know, like I said it's a while ago. Like I said a while ago, it's one of these things where you need to present publicly that everything's put together and rock hard, solid, and has no problems when, like, something as great as maybe happy ending barely made it to opening because ticket sales were so bad until word of mouth got out. Exactly like this. You want people to believe in your project, no matter what's going on, you have to. That's the business.
- [25:55]
Matt Koplik
I mean, the nar. That's the narrative people have about why Leah wasn't nominated for Chess was like, oh, well, people still don't like her. I'm like, well, yeah, a lot of them probably still don't and don't buy her redemption arc. But also, you know, it ties into the work itself. But there. I mean, there are some people who weren't nominated this year who have yet to be nominated for Tonys and wonder why. I'm like, they don't have the best reputation as a person.
- [26:19]
Alan Seals
Yeah, well, yeah, that's true. I mean, it. I talk about, like, snubs and stuff. Is that why you think Lea Michele didn't get a nomination?
- [26:27]
Matt Koplik
I mean, I just don't think she was very good in Chess. But, like, I don't, I. The best actress lineup we have is the one I would pick. I, I think every woman in that category is rightfully there. But I, I, I think that the nominators clearly didn't hate Chess. They nominated it in quite a few places. They ultimately did not nominate it for revival or director or book of a musical of which they were eligible. So clearly, it wasn't an overwhelming, like, it's more like we like Pieces. Not the, not most of the main pieces, but pieces. Right. I think that in addition to maybe a few people still not buying Leah's redemption tied into that. But again, it's sort of, you know, everyone always knew Scott Rudin was a dick and, and had no problem giving him awards. And then, like, with Salesman, you know, ultimately the work itself is good enough. And I think also with something like Salesman, you can also go, well, I'm rewarding Joe Mantello. I'm rewarding Laurie Metcalfe and Nathan Lane Fair. That, yeah, actually, wait, that was something that was interesting in the drama desks too. They won Revival, and that was one of the very first awards of the night. And so Nathan Lane went up and accepted it, which I thought was very smart of Scott Rudin for him to do. And Nathan accepts the award and he mentions Scott Rudin of, like, it was his idea to make this revival happen. And there were a few boos and hisses from the audience. And Nathan goes, ooh, I see Scott Rudin's family's in the audience tonight and made a joke and then said basically, like, listen, you know, feel what you want about him. But, but he was the one who wanted this revival to happen. He's the reason why we all got together. He goes, and it's Joe Mantello that made it amazing. So, like, if you like the revival, John Mantel is the reason why it's amazing. It exists because of Scott Rudin Fair.
- [28:16]
Alan Seals
Okay.
- [28:17]
Matt Koplik
Which is. Yeah, he knows how to parse it.
- [28:20]
Alan Seals
He does, he does. And producer's gonna produce, I guess. I mean, you want to know? Yeah, it's really interesting because it's like, depending on ultimately, like, who brings in who and who talks to who first. And it's, oh, it's so territorial to bring in to produce and to be like, no, this you. Because if you want the credit, if you want to be credited with a certain stature in the program, which, which equates to a certain amount of residuals or box office cut or whatever the case is, all of this is, is it's like, everyone's against each other. And it's so flipping frustrating to be able to just, like, put it aside and. And say, like, let's just make good work. But, you know, just, I guess, like, again, going back again, this is a business, and there's going to be people you don't like in every business, and you got to figure out a way to work with them and work through them and with
- [29:13]
Matt Koplik
then.
- [29:14]
Alan Seals
But going back to Scott Rudin, too, like, dude, probably can put four people in a room that are like, all right, now you four go out and find 20, and that's going to raise the budget. And then he didn't do much of anything except make the connections. And then he gets credited with lead producer.
- [29:31]
Matt Koplik
I think that he is someone who's a bit more directly involved with that stuff than you would imply.
- [29:39]
Alan Seals
Yes, I agree with you, but I'm saying there is a world where that happens.
- [29:42]
Matt Koplik
Oh, sure.
- [29:44]
Alan Seals
But, yeah, I would think very quietly. He's been pulling a lot of strings.
- [29:48]
Matt Koplik
He basically. He was still producing music, man. Just his name wasn't on it. You know, it was. I talk about this all the time. Like, Broadway is not innocent about this stuff. There are people who maybe were honored or mentioned at the drama desks on Monday who, like, their names would have been in that New York Times MeToo article that got killed. But. And also, everyone knows it. So it's just one of those things of, like, everyone is needs to work. Everyone wants to work. Everyone wants to do a good job. And I'm not here to, like, expose everybody, but it is interesting how these things happen. And I get really frustrated when, like, I'm sort of like, you can either be an asshole and do amazing work, or you can be a really kind person and kind of like, underwhelm me on stage. Like, you can't be an asshole and do underwhelming work. And there are a few of those people right now, and I'm just like, you either need to get nicer or get better. Which. What's your. Which one are you going to do?
- [30:48]
Alan Seals
Get nicer or get better. Yeah, that is. That's true. Right? Yeah. I mean, I guess that's why a lot of people keep throwing money at people who are dicks. Because they do good work.
- [30:56]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, they're like. They. Unfortunately, they bring it to every ball. I mean, some of our greatest theater artists were absolute assholes. Jerome Robbins, Bob Fosse, Michael Bennett. But they did give us history. Which brings us back to the Tonys, because ultimately, awards don't matter in terms of. It doesn't actually tell you whether what you did was unworthy or not. It's just that it's a marketing tool. But also it, I think on a larger scale, it's a really nice context for us to discuss art because it's subjective. And so rather than say like, you know, in years from now, you can look back on this year and go, okay, well, like, how did that win over this when 30 years later, this is. Seems like such the clear winner or what was going on in voters heads at the time? And I mean, it happens all the time. You know, people always talk about the Follies versus Two Gentlemen of Verona. How could that have happened?
- [31:47]
Alan Seals
Or.
- [31:48]
Matt Koplik
I don't know. There's. There's other plays that were such sensations when they opened and no one does them anymore. Have you done Tea House of the August Moon? Alan Seal?
- [31:57]
Alan Seals
Every night in my shower,
- [32:02]
Matt Koplik
I don't even have an answer to that. But, you know, but yeah, yeah. So like, on that, on that front, then, what are things that you are hearing sort of like overwhelming buzz for that you're like, kind of confident about making predictions. Yeah.
- [32:19]
Alan Seals
I mean, like Joshua Henry. No, that is the overwhelming 100 going to take it home like that. That in and of itself, he's. He's the only one that without a doubt, I would be very happy to put money on.
- [32:33]
Matt Koplik
There are plenty of people from Ragtime. I would be happy to win. He's the only one where I definitely would be like, yeah, I'll put down 200 bucks because I know I'm getting it back.
- [32:40]
Alan Seals
Yes. Yes. I mean, just looking at the nomination, like, best play, I. I want Liberation to win because it was very enlightening and pushed so many boundaries in a very good way.
- [32:54]
Matt Koplik
And you liked the top of Act 2.
- [32:55]
Alan Seals
I don't know what you're talking about.
- [32:59]
Matt Koplik
No, I like Liberation a lot. The Balusters is probably the play I preferred more, but Liberation, I think would be a phenomenal winner.
- [33:09]
Alan Seals
And I. Yeah, plus it. It's going to win the Pulitzer Prize. You know, they've announced that, like, it's, it's got some pre. Some precursors, as you were saying.
- [33:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And also I also should say I do think Liberation is winning, whether I. Whether I would vote for Ballisters or not. It is Liberation without a doubt. Just like speaking of drama desks, Bess Wall and Whitney White came out to present and when I tell you, the whole room was like, yeah, it's you two. We like you two.
- [33:37]
Alan Seals
Yeah, yeah. Because they're. They're. They're just nice people. People like them and they do good work.
- [33:42]
Matt Koplik
I say it's there. It's a combo. They're good people who do good work. And we really like it when that happens.
- [33:47]
Alan Seals
Yes, we do. Look at best musical. Let's see Lost Boy, Schmingadoon, Titanique and Two Strangers. I. I know I would. I would be surprised if Titanique wins. Like, I think it's the underdog.
- [34:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I. I currently have it as the fourth likeliest to win.
- [34:09]
Alan Seals
Fourth out of Fourth.
- [34:10]
Matt Koplik
Yes, exactly.
- [34:11]
Alan Seals
Out of four. You so blast. Yes.
- [34:13]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's my number one choice, but it's what I think is the least likely for sure. Yeah, but. But again, I. I say that because I just. I have a hard time imagining enough of those voters taking that show seriously on a. Just on a level of how good it is at being how stupid it is, because that's really hard to do.
- [34:35]
Alan Seals
But right now we need to laugh. And I think that goes a long way, though. I think that goes long.
- [34:39]
Matt Koplik
Longer way than if they want to laugh.
- [34:44]
Alan Seals
There's an uplifter.
- [34:48]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [34:49]
Alan Seals
Like, we have to. We have to laugh. And that's why. Maybe that's why Schmegadoon is such a strong contender too. I mean, I guess. Yeah, Schmegadoon is more for the. Every theater goer where Titanique is more for the queer culture.
- [35:06]
Matt Koplik
Queer appreciators.
- [35:07]
Alan Seals
Queer appreciators. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you're right. I guess it is a bit more specialized, but it still works. It works for me. Like I said, yes, I want Titanique to win number one. Um, I think it will probably go to. I think it'll. I don't know, probably go to Schmigadude. And I will be surprised, but not surprised if that makes sense. Like, I think that's more it. It checks more of the boxes universally. Yeah.
- [35:34]
Matt Koplik
I think it's what these early awards can do. As I said, they're not precursors in the sense that there's no real overlap, but they can help build momentum and they can build a narrative and some excitement. And Spingadoon, you know, winning at the drama desks, winning at the outer critics circle, winning at the Cheetah, winning a bunch of Cheetah Rivera Awards. It's just, it's. It give. It gives a momentum to it of sort of. Oh, like peop. People like it. It has been confirmed that this is a show that enough people like. So if you saw it and you liked it, voter and you're on the fence about whether it's a worthwhile vote. Just know other people liked it too. And I think that that is where it really helps. And then people giving speeches and reminding people in the room, hey, you like me. I give. I give good speech. That sort of. I think the power of what Queen Jean did at the drama desk was all of us going, oh, we. We didn't forget. Everyone jumped to their feet when. When she won. But then she spoke, and we're like, yep. We also really love Jellicoe Ball. And we all. And we agree with you, Queen Jean, that it's wonderful and important to lift up. Up black queer joy right now and art history and not just the trauma.
- [36:47]
Alan Seals
Yeah, no, I. I get it. And I think we're. We're fighting ourselves as an industry between pushing forward underrepresented groups in seeing that. Seeing that type of thing on stage versus going with the. The Garrett. I'll put in quotes. Guaranteed. Guaranteed highbrow musical. I mean, because we've got Jellicoe ball versus kind of. I mean, Lost Boys. Lost Boys is mostly most. A lot of white people. String of Dune is a lot of white people. But you have Jellicoe Ball. You have. Titanic's got a bit of diversity in it. I don't know.
- [37:28]
Matt Koplik
I mean, like, the cats are two strangers is diverse.
- [37:31]
Alan Seals
50%. You're not wrong there. Good job, Good job. But. But I'm Ching.
- [37:39]
Matt Koplik
But, yeah,
- [37:42]
Alan Seals
not knowing the demographics of the voters, too, I can't say if that plays a part in it either, but I think historically it has. And like we were talking about earlier, again, like, the drama. The drama leagues, the drama desks, all the precursor awards, like, they are becoming more diverse, but I don't know that the Tony. Tony nominations, nominators, slash voters, which are two separate groups, by the way, if they are. If they are as divorced diverse as they need to be.
- [38:09]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, the nominators do get to vote, but they are. We're talking like 60 to 70 people, as opposed to 830 in the voting body there. I mean, listen there. We can always do more. We could always do better. We can always, you know, get. Get more eclectic in our representation, which I would love. Eventually you start just, like, having every single person from a different walk of life with such a different point of view that, like, whoever's gonna win is gonna win by, like, three votes because everyone's gonna have the most different of ballots, you know? But I think what I like about that is that it. I feel like this year in so many ways. There are so few guarantees, which makes me nervous because then I'm going, oh, is it my gut instinct all along? But you have to ask voters, like, the. The question is, how do you like it in the moment? But then also, how do you think this is going to age in the future? You know?
- [39:06]
Alan Seals
Well, is that. Is. Would that be part of your voting criteria? I.
- [39:11]
Matt Koplik
It would in the sense that if
- [39:13]
Alan Seals
you were allegedly a voter. Allegedly.
- [39:17]
Matt Koplik
That word doesn't apply here.
- [39:19]
Alan Seals
Hypothetically.
- [39:21]
Matt Koplik
There we go.
- [39:22]
Alan Seals
There we go.
- [39:23]
Matt Koplik
Hypothetically, Alan. Hypothetically, if I were a voter. Yeah. I think less of sort of of like, what is my legacy as a voter? And more sort of. I can't just go with how I feel in the moment. I have to actually overanalyze after the fact and think, like, okay, yes, I got swept up in the show, but now that I'm sitting with it, was that good or was that just a moment in the woods? And I do like to think about, you know, is this show going to feel as good ten years from now as it does in this moment? And some I do like. I think liberation is going to age like fine wine. I think actually think the Ballisters is going to age like fine wine. Giant's probably not going to age super well. It's a bit bumpy of a play. Although they announced recruitment. Good for them. I do think Aya Cash is going to age like fine wine with that hair and that dress and those shoes. Girlfriend's an icon. But then, yeah, like you. I think you also kind of want to ask yourself as a voter, like, where do I want theater to head to? Do I want it to be. Stay exciting and be new, or do I want it to go to the lowest common denominator? There are certain shows that get nominated, and I'm like, I think they don't like. I think a lot of jukebox musicals don't win because voters look at them as the lowest common denominator. And, like, we don't want this to be what theater ultimately becomes. I mean, think about it. Like, Moulin Rouge doesn't count because that was a Covid year. But, like, the last genuine jukebox musical to win best musical was Jersey Boys 20 years ago.
- [40:56]
Alan Seals
And that was one of the first.
- [40:58]
Matt Koplik
Definitely one of the best ones, too. Like it. But it was also such a phenomenon that they couldn't not vote for it. It was it. It. By that point, it had been running for almost a year. And it was such a sensation.
- [41:09]
Alan Seals
Right? Yeah. Well, it's One of those things that. That came in, tried something new and worked, and then everybody's been trying to copy it since because financially it's easier to adapt existing songs than to write completely new ones and make those work. If you're taking existing hits and adapting them to the stage, great, you've already got a built in hit.
- [41:31]
Matt Koplik
I think with the difference though is no one involved with Jersey Boys expected it to become what it was. So the Four Seasons were incredibly honest in their interviews for the script. And so all four of them on stage don't come off super great, but it makes it exciting drama. And then it became a billion dollar musical. And then after that, all the other jukebox musicals were like, so in order to get the songs from the artist, we need to paint them in the rosiest of pictures and they have no flaws. And here are all their songs.
- [41:58]
Alan Seals
What do you think? Do you think they're going to be any upsets?
- [42:02]
Matt Koplik
I think there are opportunities for it. Yeah. I think there. So I think that there are certain categories where there's a perceived frontrunner and then I think that there's a world in which that front runner could be upset. Like, I. I don't think that Josh is getting upset. I don't think that Casey's getting upset at this point. I thought for maybe a minute Marla or even Cristiani could possibly win, but I think that's pretty locked and loaded. I think Ben Levi Ross is at this moment the front runner for featured actor in a musical. But I do think that both Leighton Williams and Andre De Shields are sort of potential upsetters there. Layton, because that's a, that's a nomination that voters can vote for. Titanic if they liked it a lot, but can't bring themselves to vote for it for musical or book Andre because of his legacy. He's 80 and still doing the damn thing. It's a chance to award sort of like the whole cast of Cats, which I know many people go, that's not logical. That's not how math works. I'm like, no, but that's how voters sometimes work.
- [43:07]
Alan Seals
Yeah. Well, just showing up sometimes is enough to. To win something. I totally get that.
- [43:12]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And then who. Who's the rest there? It's, oh, Ali for Lost Boys. I think Ali could win if Lost Boys won musical, but ultimately I think if Lost Boys wins musical, that just guarantees Shoshana Bean winning more than anything else. I think. I don't think anyone has any clue what's happening in featured actress in a musical.
- [43:35]
Alan Seals
Featured actress In a musical. Who. Let's see. So let me pull this up.
- [43:38]
Matt Koplik
I just can't get a consensus on it. I. I've. Everyone is all over the place.
- [43:44]
Alan Seals
Featured actress, actress in a feature. Oh, that's play and a musical. Okay, so we got. That's actor Shobean, Hannah Cruz, Rachel Dratch on a gastire Nichelle Lewis. I again, I love these two individuals. I don't think Anna and Rachel. Rachel and Drat. Rachel and Dredge.
- [44:17]
Matt Koplik
I don't think.
- [44:18]
Alan Seals
I don't think Anna and Dredge are on the same competitive performance level as the rest of. As the other three.
- [44:29]
Matt Koplik
I think with their roles. Yeah, I think Anna has a chance because if Schmuckadoon ends up being best musical, that helps her case. I don't. The truth is, Rachel is probably my vote in this category, but I also think, similar to Titanic, Rachel, I think, is the fifth likeliest winner in this category.
- [44:46]
Alan Seals
Why is she your vote, though? Because. Are you just a Rocky Horror fan?
- [44:50]
Matt Koplik
No, I just thought. I thought that she nailed her assignment. And I know that she had had a lot of trouble in previews kind of figuring out how to handle the callbacks and whatnot, but by the time I saw her, I thought she was locked in. Really kind of kept the train going without it seeming like they were ignoring the audience. Like, she. She handled it all really well. I thought that she had the right arch, B level, campy tone about her. I've been very vocal about thinking Hannah Cruz is the best performance in chess. And I. She would be like my second vote.
- [45:20]
Alan Seals
Yeah.
- [45:21]
Matt Koplik
And then Shoshana. I think Shoshana just, like, has built a career post Covid of being the grounded presence in a crowd in a chaotic show. This Hell's Kitchen, Mr. Saturday Night. Just like all of these personalities. And Shoshana is the one who just sort of like, holds calm and holds center and always in the kitchen too. But. And like. And I think she's lovely in it. I think the biggest problem in her way with Lost Boy, similar to Anna, is like, so much of act one isn't about her, but I think a lot of featured roles that wind tend to be a little more like, sprinkled out throughout the entire evening. You know, you look at last year, Jack Malone and Natalie, they were sprinkled out throughout the evening. The year before that, who was that? That was Daniel Radcliffe and Keisha Lewis. Again, sprinkled throughout the evening. Like Keisha Lewis, they kill her off halfway through Act 2, but she still gets to come back for the finale. So, you know, it's. It's a nice spreading out. Anna has really nothing to do in act one, but then, like, act two does kind of belong to her. So everyone sort of. Everyone has the same problem in opposite directions. You know what I mean?
- [46:32]
Alan Seals
Yeah, yeah. No, and the fact that they're even nominated too, I mean, it shows that they're making the most. They're bringing their best selves, which are incredible performers. They're bringing their best selves to these roles that by no fault of their own are not in the whole show. They're featured. They're literally. Yeah, they're featured.
- [46:48]
Matt Koplik
They're genuine featured performances. Yeah, but that's sort of what I mean is just like you look at the last 10ish years of featured performances, and they aren't really like specialty spots. They're. They're more like large ensemble pieces. The. The days of Marilyn Cooper getting eight minutes in the second act of Woman of the Year and winning are kind of gone.
- [47:14]
Alan Seals
Fair. That's very fair. Yeah. I. I want Hannah's. My vote for this. For this one.
- [47:20]
Matt Koplik
It's a great vote. I also thought that was a wig she was wearing in. In Chess. I think it's her actual hair.
- [47:25]
Alan Seals
Is it really?
- [47:26]
Matt Koplik
I think so. I think so. If it is her actual hair.
- [47:28]
Alan Seals
No, no, because she went blonde.
- [47:30]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I thought. I thought. I. I thought it was a wig, but then on Instagram, I was looking the other day because I don't follow any of these people, but I saw her, like, it was a candid photo and it looked like the same hair she had on stage. And I went, did she genuinely dye her hair blonde for this?
- [47:47]
Alan Seals
I actually don't know if that is her real hair or not. I don't know. I saw. I saw somebody, I talked to somebody the other day who was. Who had just seen Titanique. It was like, oh, Melissa Barrera. If you had not told me she had dark hair, I'd think she was a redhead, because that would look so good on her.
- [48:03]
Matt Koplik
The wigs in Titanic are quite exceptional. And I. And I would nominate Chess for a wig, Tony for Hannah Cruz's hair alone, if it's actually a wig. But I also think that Leah's bobs are bad, so I don't know.
- [48:19]
Alan Seals
That's why she didn't get nominated. She's.
- [48:21]
Matt Koplik
Bad wig, bad wigs. It can kill you, believe me. I mean, that's what. I think. That's what cost Vosk the nomination. Those awful, awful Bette Midler wigs.
- [48:32]
Alan Seals
Why did they choose to make those characters look like Bette Midler. You don't need to do that.
- [48:37]
Matt Koplik
You don't need to do that. But also, like, why do they keep putting Betty. I was about to call her Betty Gilbert. Why do they keep putting Kelly Barrett in, like, helmet heads wigs? Like, she's such a pretty girl. Let her look pretty.
- [48:50]
Alan Seals
I don't know. But I, I wanted this. I wanted Beaches to be so good for. For Kelly among everybody else, because, like, Kelly is such one of the most talented people I've seen on stage and she, she deserves her due. She deserves a head and she deserves a hit. And yeah, it's just the luck of the draw so far.
- [49:08]
Matt Koplik
I know Girl's got bad luck when it comes to original musicals, and it's awful because you're right. No, she deserves better. I remember seeing her in Chivago and just thinking, this musical does not deserve you.
- [49:20]
Alan Seals
Yeah, yeah. Ultimately, take yourself out for a picture
- [49:24]
Matt Koplik
of margaritas because you are doing the Lord's work. You and Paul Alexander Nolan.
- [49:29]
Alan Seals
They need an award for, like, characters that should have been cut and given it to the. Both men in Beaches.
- [49:35]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Oh, my God. Both Beaches is just like, what are men? We don't care. Which is great.
- [49:42]
Alan Seals
Ultimately. Ultimately. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. There, there, there are things that I don't get. I mean, and this is not unpopular opinion of, of like, things like Queen of Versailles, you know, didn't show up anywhere in the nominations. But like, I don't ever think. I think that had a lot of potential had they listened in and incor rid of the feedback from the out of town. But they just didn't. Like, who, who what? The egos behind some of this. Go back to the producing side, the creative side.
- [50:09]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is I, I did not see it out of town. I had. I know people who did see it out of town and then saw it on Broadway and they're like, they found a way to cut 30 minutes, but no, like, actual changes have happened. Like, no major song changes have happened or anything like that. And so I, Yeah, I don't know what that was about, because seeing Queen of Versailles, I talked about this on the podcast as well. I saw it with Chenoweth and I was like, I don't know why this musical exists. And then I saw with Sherry and I went, oh, I think I know what the idea was, but why do you think you guys found the way to tell it? Like, because you didn't I think I know what story you want to tell, and it's a good idea, but this is not how you tell it. Although I maintain Caviar Dreams is a good song, and I actually probably would have still given them a score nomination. But, you know, ultimately, the Tony Nominator said Joe Turner's Come and Gone has more score that we like.
- [51:00]
Alan Seals
What did you think about Lost Boys, like the rescues, writing that album?
- [51:07]
Matt Koplik
What did I think of their work
- [51:08]
Alan Seals
or the Lost Boys of the music itself? Because I left Lost Boys and immediately looked up the rescues and listened to their music on the way home.
- [51:18]
Matt Koplik
I liked the music a lot. I think musically it's lovely. I think where that score kind of falters is I don't love a lot of the lyrics. Not in a super cringey way, but more sort of in a. Oh, this is your first time writing musical theater lyrics. Like, they're. It's a little on the nose. It's a little. Oh, like, overly earnest. And then reading by Michael Arden how the vibe they were going for was 80s mega musicals, and I went, oh, okay, then in that sense, yeah, they. They probably did the assignment well. But I would like to hear their second score because I do think the. I think they're. I think they've got a good idea of emotion in a musical theater landscape. I would like to see them continue that in a more specific, less extravagant setting to see what kind of lyrics they write for that. Because I'm not sure, like, how Sondheimian you can be with teenage vampires in the 1980s. You know, I don't think you can write an Everybody Loves Louis in that situation.
- [52:18]
Alan Seals
Right, right. Well, that's. Again, that's part of why, like, I like the Outsiders. I. I do like Lost Boys. I'm. I'm in. I'm in thumbs up camp for Lost Boys for a couple different reasons, but. And that was part of. I mean, I've always just kind of liked the Non Weber's, the non Sondheims, the less traditional path taken for musical theater. Because Rent was originally what got me into loving musical theater when I was late high school, early college, dating myself there. But yeah, like, that was like. I remember senior year of high school, driving around with the T Tops out in my Firebird, blasting the cast album of Rent. You know, like, that was me.
- [52:59]
Matt Koplik
I was applying for Social Security when I got my Rent album,
- [53:05]
Alan Seals
you know, like a day over 102.
- [53:07]
Matt Koplik
Thank you. It's the Vaseline.
- [53:09]
Alan Seals
It's the Vaseline I put on my armpits. Prevents the chafing.
- [53:14]
Matt Koplik
I mean, the truth is like, of the three musicals nominated for score, I actually probably would vote for Lost Boys. I think, I think that Two Strangers has the best lyrics out of all three. I think that Schmigadoon getting nominated for score is kind of ridiculous because ultimately it's majority what was written for the TV show. They claim, oh, we wrote a bunch of new songs. It's songs that existed that have some new lyrics. That's what it is.
- [53:39]
Alan Seals
Fun fact. I heard today from straight from the horse's mouth who's known as mackenzie Kurtz, that she auditioned for the TV show
- [53:48]
Matt Koplik
and they said, no, thank you.
- [53:49]
Alan Seals
They said, no thank you. And then look where she is now.
- [53:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, they said, we want somebody who has been on the Disney Channel. Yep.
- [53:57]
Alan Seals
Well, I mean, look at the problem we've got again, going back to capitalism and the fact that Giant recouped Beat. Not because it's a great play, but I mean, it's a good play, but it's got John Lithgow in it. You're gonna go see John and get a good play out of it. The performance is phenomenal.
- [54:14]
Matt Koplik
Well, I think that, I think Giant is a situation of. It's a small company, not extravagant. It's a British import, so it comes with buzz and Olivier wins. John Lithgow is a name, the role doll of it all is, you know, it's subject matter that people can understand. It's a play that absolutely caters to the Upper West. Upper east side. Theater goers like, you don't need a million people to pay $150 to see your show. You just need 90,000 to pay $200. And there are 90, 000 Manhattan people and some in New Jersey and some Connecticut who will pay that to see it.
- [54:53]
Alan Seals
Right? Yeah, I, I guess, I mean, I thinking of things that like. Yeah, people pay money for. I guess I'm going back to like the cost for the cost of Broadway for Denzel Washington, Jake Gyllenhaal.
- [55:10]
Matt Koplik
Oh, Othello.
- [55:11]
Alan Seals
Othello. Like famously what? Thousand dollar front row seats?
- [55:15]
Matt Koplik
Something like that.
- [55:16]
Alan Seals
Something like that. But other, other great performances too. Oedipus.
- [55:22]
Matt Koplik
I loved Alan. You have to say its name correctly. Oedipus. There we go.
- [55:29]
Alan Seals
Eat a p. Eat a puss. Oedipus. Oedipus. You know, the ending. Everybody should. Everyone should know the ending. And the fact that I was on the edge of my seat being like, how are they gonna do this? How are they gonna do this? When's the shoe gonna drop. When's the other shoe gonna drop? I, I thought it was executed brilliantly. And then across the board, phenomenal performances, no notes.
- [55:55]
Matt Koplik
Leslie Manville is one of the other categories that I am locked in on that I'm, I'm just. I, I, that's happening. She's winning actress in a play.
- [56:05]
Alan Seals
Yeah, I can see that. I can see that.
- [56:08]
Matt Koplik
I think that plays are actually kind of a little more locked in for me than the musicals. Like, I, I think Liberation is winning. I do think Salesman is winning. Oedipus could give it a run for its money, but ultimately Salesman is currently running. That's always an advantage, which, of course, then goes against my whole thing about Liberation. But Liberation just won the Pulitzer, and, you know, the Ballisters is closing at the end of June anyway. Giant is closing at the end of June anyway, so it doesn't matter that Liberation is closed. And I think that Leslie Manville is winning actress. I think that Laurie Metcalf is winning featured actress. I think that it's down to Nathan and John Lithgow for actor. Part of me thinks it's going to be Lithgow because he'll be like, the one award for Giant. Part of me is like, I don't know. What if Nathan wins in, like, this big old suite for Salesman? Because I think Joe Mantello ultimately is winning. And then if he doesn't win, it'll be Whitney White for Liberation. Featured actors sort of up for grabs. I don't know where that's going. My heart says Alden for Becky Shaw. But maybe, maybe it's Ruben Santiago Hudson. Maybe it's Christopher Abbott. I don't know. Help me.
- [57:20]
Alan Seals
I. Let's see. I'm pulling this up. Love, Lady Roller. Christopher Abbott. Okay, best performance by an actor in a featured role in a play. We got Chris Abbott, Danny Burstein, who I love, by the way. Let's see. Brandon J. Durden. Alder. And Aaron Reich.
- [57:38]
Matt Koplik
Aaron Reich, Yeah.
- [57:40]
Alan Seals
Ruben Santiago Hudson and Richard Thomas. Yeah. Legitimately, could not, could not tell you who this was going to go to.
- [57:51]
Matt Koplik
I mean, I can tell you who I would let do things to me. In what order in this category.
- [58:01]
Alan Seals
Do me. Do me the order, sir.
- [58:05]
Matt Koplik
Well, it depends on what task I'm asking them to do. Alden is stepping on my neck. Christopher Rabbit is pulling my hair. Ruben Santiago Hudson is educating me. Danny Burstein is comforting me, and then Richard Thomas is scolding me.
- [58:24]
Alan Seals
That's. That's a Far side comic waiting to happen.
- [58:26]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I get, I get Abused. Then I get healed, and then I get shamed.
- [58:31]
Alan Seals
Was this all happening simultaneously or one. One after the other?
- [58:35]
Matt Koplik
I don't think I can handle it simultaneously. I need it to happen in. In succession. I mean, five minutes apiece. But. But yeah, in succession.
- [58:41]
Alan Seals
Five minutes each.
- [58:42]
Matt Koplik
Okay.
- [58:43]
Alan Seals
All right. That's 25 minutes of pure fun.
- [58:45]
Matt Koplik
I guess the thing is that. I guess I'll say this. The two who I really doubt are gonna get this are Danny for Marjorie prime and Richard Thomas for the Ballisters. I. I love the. Richard got in. I think that as. As I said, I think the Balusters has an amazing ensemble. Danny getting in is wonderful. Marjorie prime, for me, best acting of the season across the board. But Marjorie prime is closed. Ballisters is quite an ensemble piece, and I think if anyone's gonna win for the Ballisters, it would be Mary Louise Burke. I think she's the biggest threat. Lori Metcalf has. And then. So then it goes down to Alden, Chris, and Reuben. No, Alden, Chris, Rubin, and then. Wait, who's the fourth? Alden, Chris, Reuben, Danny, Danny, Richard. But no, there's a sixth one. There's six. Oh, Brandon J. Dearden for Waiting for Gato. Also not happening. Thrilled he's in there. Not happening.
- [59:41]
Alan Seals
So, yeah, no.
- [59:42]
Matt Koplik
So it's. It's. It's Chris, Alden, and Ruben. Of those three, I would vote for Alden. I think Ruben has a great narrative. Chris is in the more kind of like, seismic cultural hit right now, and that helps his case a lot. And like, the. Whether we want to admit it or not, these things matter. They. They infiltrate our brains when we're thinking about the quality of performance, and especially when it comes down to, like, oh, well, it's these two, and I don't know who to pick. Well, Ruben's such a legend, and. And he, you know, won only 35 years ago or whatever it was, and he deserves one again. Or are you investing in the stage careers of Christopher Abbott and Alden Ehrenreich?
- [60:25]
Alan Seals
You know, well, that comes down again to what I'm going to call, for lack of a better term, personal branding. Because, like, who. If it's all things being equal, performance wise, show wise, you're gonna go with, like, at the back of your head, unconsciously, you're gonna go with who you like more, and that comes from familiarity. Who smiled at you, who's had a great relation, who gave you a good interaction on a red carpet once. You know, whatever all of that is, it's. It all goes it all goes back to branding. And so that's like this. This time of the year, you know, this May is always terrible in a. I guess a good way for publicists and the nominees, because they're out there for this exact reason, not only doing their eight shows a week, but going in press interview after interview after performance after interview, because they want to be out there campaigning, to be top of mind, front and center when people are thinking of who to vote for. Oh, again, I'm gonna. I'm only as good as the last thing that you've seen me in. Well, if the last thing you saw me in this morning was an interview on Good Morning America, I guess I'll vote for you.
- [61:27]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I mean, people have reached out to me about sort of like, oh, did you see the cast interview about this and that? Like, does that sway you in any way? And I'm sure it sways some people. For me, it always comes down to the actual show itself and then sort of how it's been sitting with me over time. But, I mean, also, listen, the whole idea of investment is true as well. Not just in terms of productions, but in terms of the people. In order to keep having good theater, we need to invest in the people we think are going to make the good theater. So, you know, voting for Joe Mantello or Whitney White is a good investment. They make good theater. If I vote for Alden Ehrenreich, will he come back to Broadway again? Well, like, am I throwing it away to a movie actor who, you know, came back, who came to theater on a lark and won't ever be here again? I think in a lot of ways, people get ptsd with, like, James Corden. Right. Of. He wins for one man, two governors, deservedly so. It was a phenomenal performance. But he grabs that Tony and runs Hollywood. And I think a lot of people are like, fuck. Like, we could have given that to somebody else who would have taken that Tony and invested it in. In Broadway, and he didn't.
- [62:39]
Alan Seals
Was Art this season or last season?
- [62:41]
Matt Koplik
It was this season, but what does that matter?
- [62:43]
Alan Seals
I thought he was great.
- [62:45]
Matt Koplik
He was the best thing in it for sure. And I hate to say that, because I don't like the man.
- [62:49]
Alan Seals
Yeah, he was by far the best thing in it.
- [62:51]
Matt Koplik
And listen, it took him 14 years to come back. You know,
- [62:56]
Alan Seals
that's fair.
- [62:57]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I will say there are. There is a certain vibe I get this season on certain shows based off, like, of what's been winning and sort of where. Where the fandoms are of like, it's not necessarily from past theater seasons, but last year with the Emilia Perez of it all, where Emilia Perez kind of kept winning all these awards and everyone else in the world was like, the fuck is happening? And it ultimately took like a major cancellation for that movie to topple at the Oscars. But I do think that there's something to be said for this. The disparity between what, like with theater fans see and then what voters see and then ask wondering, like, does that influence voters at all? Are they aware of sort of the online presence of any of these nominees?
- [63:50]
Alan Seals
I don't know. That goes back to the representation. And, and are you voting for what you want theater to be or are you voting for like, as a critic, are you voting for what you like? Because it's two, sometimes, oftentimes two different paths. You know, I want, I, I want show a to be inspirational and door opening and great for a certain subset of people or a certain type of theater goers that we need to have more of in the theater to make better work. But then it's not going to sell tickets in the long run, so I'll vote for the other thing and be part of the cool kids club. Or like, again, if you're a theater reviewer, a theater critic, are you gonna vote for what you thought was the best show or what you think is the most impactful message wise or people
- [64:45]
Matt Koplik
pick and choose with that though, it's. It's because they'll do it for like play or they'll do it for, I don't know, revival of a musical. Not usually, but sometimes. But if, if voters were voting based off of, oh, this is really prescient for right now. Cab Ray would have beaten Merrily We Roll along. But ultimately that revival was not liked as much or one would argue at all, but. Or like, or like Harmony would have been nominated for 20 tonys because people would have talked about like, well, considering everything that's going on right now with anti Semitism, it' a beautiful commentary. And then they blanked at nominations. And I think that I was, I was asking you that question about social media kind of with my own answer in my head, but also was genuinely interested in your thoughts, which is like, I don't think that voters ultimately care what people say online because if there's one thing voters hate, it's being told who to vote for. And there are some. I think the worst Tony campaigns are the ones that actually lead with the like, here's why we're important. It's why I really enjoyed Queen Jean's speech at the drama desks because, like, ultimately it was about the craft and why she loved the show and why she thought the show was good and then kind of ended it with. Not in this exact words, but the ultimate understanding of, like, for those of you who need a reason to think Cats is important, to take it seriously, here's why it's important. And then. And said so brilliantly. But yeah, I mean, I think that there are a handful of people who think to themselves, well, the subject matter is just so important right now. Usually it's sort of like important subject matter. Hated how they handled it, though. So I'm gonna go for the show that maybe was less important, but did the thing to quote Ariana DeBose.
- [66:32]
Alan Seals
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I remember. I forget what year it is, but when Hadestown won over the Prom, that was a big. At least in my circles, that was an upset. I don't know if that was expected, but you go back to like, I think the Prom was a show that needs to be out there. It's a message people need to hear. It's a something, you know, is original story. And again, not hating on Hadestown. It's a great show, but I. I don't know. I mean, what. What's changing lives more if we're talking about social commentary? The prom or Hadestown? And the prom should. So which one do you vote for and why?
- [67:16]
Matt Koplik
I guess I'm. This is where I'm cynical of, like, I'm not sure how many lives get changed by Broadway musicals these days, just by how expensive and exclusive they are and also how echo chambery they can get. I think what helps, I hate to say this, the movie of the Prom probably was made more of an impact than the stage musical just by, like, reaching more people. Even though the movies far worse than the stage show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I feel like in a perfect world, the show that you think speaks to the moment, that is also happens to be the best musical of the season. Tie in. And then sometimes it's like the musical that had the highest reach but ultimately missed the mark. Like, you can't bring yourself to vote for it. There's. And it doesn't always have to be about, like, important subject matter. Sometimes it's just like, on an artistic level, they take all these risks. Speaking of Follies, you know, Light in the Piazza, a musical that I adore, was expected to kind of blank that year at the Tonys because everyone thought it was boring. And it ultimately won a lot of awards while missing out on musical to Spamalot, which absolutely doesn't do anything nearly as adventurous or ambitious as Light in the Piazza. But ultimately, voters felt that it nailed its assignment better, even if it was a lower mark. And so, I mean, there's. There's always that exception to the rule. And then I feel like last year for best play Purpose is a play that I like. I think it's a little fatty, but it. Sometimes it felt like voters voted for that because they thought it was an important piece. I think more. What more contributed to that was people liking Brandon Jacobs Jenkins and being like, we want to give you a genuine Tony now because you won for appropriate, but you didn't win for appropriate. Like, you're. You get the Tony, but we want to give you an actual award as a writer. And I feel like that was sort of a real motivation for a lot of voters of him in particular. And then a lot of other writers in that category were newer, younger writers that I'm sure voters were like, your nomination is your award, and this is an investment for your next play. Come back and do it again, and you will win.
- [69:38]
Alan Seals
Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. I. And I mean along those lines, too. I can't wait to see what Best Wool brings up next. Writes next. You know, like, for a second, I
- [69:48]
Matt Koplik
thought you said best role and that you up the R. And I was like, best whoa.
- [69:52]
Alan Seals
That's. Whoa. Best Wall.
- [69:55]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, let's see what. Let's see what Ms. Wall comes up with. If you're nasty.
- [70:00]
Alan Seals
Yes, I want to see. I want to see what she comes up with. Like, the. The. I. I have high hopes and I have high, high wishes. Not high hopes. Knowing the financials of Jellicoe Ball, I don't have high hopes, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if they can last a year on their financials because it's an expensive cast, it's an expensive show, and it's one of those things, again, where I think they need to win to get that boost to keep them going, to allow them to recoup, to allow them to change more lives. Yeah, because it's. It's allowing people to see themselves in a way on stage that they never have before. And it's funny because on my podcast, I've interviewed some people lately that were literally in, like, middle school or high school when Hamilton came out. And now they're post college late into their 20s, and they're starting to write their own stuff or have been writing their own Stuff that is very. Sounds very much like Hamilton. It's very much influenced by that, by that, you know, by Lynn reaching for the sky and hitting it and, you know, captured lightning in a bottle. But you have something, you need something like a Tony win Fragilico ball to keep it, it going and in the Zeitgeist, I think, and I really hope, I do hope they get it to inspire people to like to change the game and to make it. I think, you know, in the next couple, next couple decades, we're gonna have to like, figure out some way to release the stranglehold that's on Broadway because it is too exclusive, it is too expensive. And you know, some of that is going to come from, from literal political government, like subsidies, if we can get that. Look at how successful London West End is because the government out there subsidizes the arts and it doesn't cost a bajillion dollars to go see, sit front row and see your favorite celebrity. But yeah, something's got to change. And I think that now, you know, we just need to be voting for, well, I don't know, we need to be voting for, for the best show and whatever the best means to you is obviously very subjective. But for me, I would vote for something that's going to make a lasting impression if they hit, if they hit their goal. What's beyond that? It's going to make a lasting impression and be important to people. Yeah.
- [72:05]
Matt Koplik
And just what excites you and not just, not necessarily what makes you feel good. I don't want to go on that because I think that what makes you feel good is a slippery slope to then like, what kind of numbs you into complacency? The comeback. I always say to people, because you know me, Alan, I'm an asshole.
- [72:26]
Alan Seals
I do, I do.
- [72:27]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I know you're an asshole.
- [72:28]
Alan Seals
Yeah.
- [72:30]
Matt Koplik
And I'll talk to friends or whatever and they'll be like, why'd you think a Pretty Woman? I'm like, it's piece of. And they go. And they'll be like, well, you know, my mom came in from the burbs and she loved it. And, and yeah, she doesn't, you know, go to a lot of high art theater, but I'm like, yeah, listen, enjoy their experience, whatever. And they go, well, you know, say what you will, but like, it makes her feel good, it brings her joy, and it makes other people feel good and brings them joy. And I always say you could say the same thing about crack. That's not enough for me to Then say, but of course you're right. Here's its success. No, no, no. Like, yeah, feel good all you want, but I want to be the show that can both challenge and excite me at the same time, much like you do with me personally every day, Alan. That's from, like, that's the magic of theater. And I don't want to go into any specific show this season, but there have been a few, some plays, some musicals where I'm like, oh, this is both, as you said with Oedipus, you know what it's about. And yet that production flips it on its head. And that's sort of the challenge of, oh, like, I thought I came in knowing where all the plot points were going to be. And yet, like, it's completely thrown me. And so that is challenging. And it excites me. And I feel good because I'm seeing something that's challenging and exciting me, not just something that's, like, embolstering what I already know or what I felt beforehand going in.
- [73:58]
Alan Seals
Well, that's why I, I, I say, like, when I'm looking, when I'm thinking of revivals. There's only three in the category of revival of musical, like Jellicoval, Ragtime, and Rocky Horror. And if, if you're going off of the criteria that I like to talk about a lot on my podcast is if you're going to revive something, make it different, like, there's got to be a reason to bring it back. Well, Angelica Ball did exactly that.
- [74:25]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, exactly. Listen, Ragtime, Rocky Horror, I think, brought Rocky Horror. Rocky Horror brought that property to a space that it, that's very meta. It's in Studio 54. Cats took felines and made them puss. And Ragtime was like, what if the turn of the century looked like AI? They all do something very different. But. No, I hear you. I, that's, I just, I hate, hate the argument from people who are like, it's. But it's Cats. It's not a very good musical. Even though I liked this production, I'm like, then you should vote for it for revival. Because that's the whole point. But this is, this is not a cat's.
- [75:07]
Alan Seals
If you hated it before and you liked it now it hit it. It did its job.
- [75:11]
Matt Koplik
It did its job. The. I point to, yet again, John Doyle's revival of the Color Purple, a show that, when it was on Broadway the first time, it made money, but it did not do well at the Tonys. Critics were not big on it and, like, A lot of us in the theater community were like, yeah, we're happy Lachanze has a Tony. But, like, that show wasn't very good. And then that revival came and we all went, oh, I'm so sorry. I think this show actually is good. We were wrong. Thank you for this. And like, that was the. That's why they won revival in the end.
- [75:43]
Alan Seals
Yeah. Yeah. I was looking at the plays here too. I mean, Oedipus, Fallen Angels. I liked Fallen Angels. I thought Rose and Kelly's performances were wonderful. You know, it didn't. The show didn't blow me away even. Actually, every brilliant thing I thought was performed very well by Mr. Radcliffe, by Mr. Potter. I haven't seen Mariska, but that's a completely different energy. Like, it's a very serious subject matter. Right. And Daniel come. Dan comes off just very light hearted and bubbly about it because that's who he is. And I think that's a wonderful juxtaposition. And I'm worried that Mariska won't carry that through. Not that that is relevant to our Tony discussion. And then who did they just announce today? It's another announcement today.
- [76:29]
Matt Koplik
Tracee Ellis Ross.
- [76:30]
Alan Seals
Tracee Ellis Ross. Yeah. Was it today? A day or two ago, yeah. Gonna make her Broadway debut doing it too. I think she might be good.
- [76:38]
Matt Koplik
I don't think she's actually kind of in perfect casting.
- [76:40]
Alan Seals
Yeah.
- [76:41]
Matt Koplik
And I love Mariska, but she's. Granted, I have not seen her outside of SVU. I don't think the world has in 30 years. So it's like we all know her as this big, heavy, so it'll be interesting to see what that is. I, I, the revival of a play category is mostly fine. I would take out either Every Brilliant Thing or Fallen Angels for Marjorie Prime. Fallen Angels is, is fun. It, it absolutely is mostly just an excuse for Kelly and Rose to look stunning, get sloppy, and then look weird, which I'm all here for. I love that those two women are doing that with each other. I think that's a joy. And then every brilliant thing I've talked about, like, I think Daniel's great. It's a fun experience. I don't know if I think of much of it as a play, and I don't think that this production necessarily does anything to improve that. For me, it was a fun experience, but I, I don't think I thought much of it outside of the, the community gathering that it provides. It's like, it's a community building exercise.
- [77:37]
Alan Seals
Right. So. So that if we're going by our criteria that we were just talking about for revival of a musical, then if I didn't like it before and I like it now, then Oedipus has my vote, hands down.
- [77:47]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I think Oedipus would have my vote, too. The only way Salesman would have my vote over Oedipus. And this is. I'm sort of splitting hairs here. But ultimately, Oedipus was, like, so at the top of the year for me. Salesman was a play that I knew very well, I had seen before, and I went and been like, okay, here we go. And it surprised me, but I. Oedipus, as you said, like, it is this thing that everybody just knows and. And still made you go, what's going to happen next? I think where people get a little up in arms about it. Understandable, is that it's not the Sophocles text. It is a rewritten, modernized text. And so one could argue it's actually a new play inspired by Oedipus Rex, which is fair. But it's in revival, and thus that's where I shall vote for it.
- [78:37]
Alan Seals
Well, let's see. The. The original play. Let's see. Best play. We've got Ballister's Giant Liberation, Little Bear, Ridge Road. I guess we could add it. I mean, you could have five.
- [78:49]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I think if we. If Oedipus were considered a new play, I think that would have been enough for us to have five nominees. Maybe before, if we had Ena Pass
- [78:59]
Alan Seals
and then we had Bowser's Giant Liberation, little bear. 13.
- [79:04]
Matt Koplik
Call me Izzy. Is there a ninth play in there? Ninth Street. A ninth new play. I feel like there is. I feel like there is. I feel like I'm missing one. I'm currently up to eight. Maybe. Maybe we still would have only had four. Was all out, considered for Tony's. I feel like it was. So maybe that would have been eight.
- [79:28]
Alan Seals
Oh, right, right, right. Yeah. I don't know.
- [79:30]
Matt Koplik
Or maybe. Sorry. Maybe that would have been nine. I don't know. I don't do damn math.
- [79:36]
Alan Seals
This math ain't math.
- [79:37]
Matt Koplik
Yes. This mat. This mat ain't mathin'. Okay. I think that's. Oh, Punch. Right. So Punch. That would have been nine. Sorry. Call me Izzy. Punch. That's two. Liberation.
- [79:50]
Alan Seals
I forgot that was this season. Punch. I loved Punch. That was that. No pun intended. Hit me hard.
- [79:57]
Matt Koplik
Alan.
- [79:58]
Alan Seals
Yes, sir.
- [79:59]
Matt Koplik
Who did you see Punch with?
- [80:02]
Alan Seals
You.
- [80:03]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. That's why you loved Punch.
- [80:06]
Alan Seals
Well, we. We left and we were like, punch drunk.
- [80:10]
Matt Koplik
Punch drunk and in love. I Talk about it all the time. That Act 2 scene with Will Harrison, Victoria Clark, Sam Robards, and the therapist. That group scene could have heard a pin drop in that theater.
- [80:22]
Alan Seals
Beautiful. Shit. I'm bummed that didn't get nominated now that I realized that that was this season.
- [80:27]
Matt Koplik
It was. He got nominated, right. And the show just won the Olivier. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's tight.
- [80:36]
Alan Seals
It is. It's a tight. A toy race, if you.
- [80:39]
Matt Koplik
Okay, so I haven't given many predictions right now. I will do more so in a week or two. But, Alan, in this moment right here, right now, do you want to give a prediction, or do you want. Tell us who you'd vote for in, like, the top couple of categories and then we'll sign off.
- [80:54]
Alan Seals
All right, let's see. Best play. Liberation. I've already said that. Best musical. Oh, God, I. This is tough. I would vote for Titanique, but I'm gonna say it's gonna go to Lost Boys.
- [81:14]
Matt Koplik
Okay.
- [81:15]
Alan Seals
All right. Best book.
- [81:23]
Matt Koplik
I think everybody watching this on YouTube because Helen is with a pen right now. Gosh.
- [81:31]
Alan Seals
Who would I vote for for book? For book, I would give this, I think, also to Tiny. I think it's gonna go to Schmigadoon. Best original score written for the theatre. We've got Death of a Salesman. Joe Turner's Coming Gun. Lost Boy. Schmegadoon. Two Strangers. Original score. Original score. Original score. Lost Boys, I would vote for. I really liked it. Don't know who would go to. But I'm going. Lost Boys. Let's see. Revival of a play. Revival. Revival. Oedipus. We talked about that. Revival of musical Jellicoe Ball. We talked about that. Performance of an actor in a leading role in a play. Oh, man. Mark Strong, the Oedipus. That performance, though. No, I'm saying. But Will Harris.
- [82:23]
Matt Koplik
Next to him at the drama desks,
- [82:24]
Alan Seals
by the way, did you tell him that?
- [82:27]
Matt Koplik
Speaking of. Eat a puss. I'm right here. Hey, buddy.
- [82:32]
Alan Seals
Oh, man. Between Will Harris, John Lithgow, and Mark Strong. Oh, dude. Dude. I'm gonna go with Will Harrison.
- [82:45]
Matt Koplik
Great.
- [82:46]
Alan Seals
I'm voting for Will Harrison. Let's see. Best porn.
- [82:48]
Matt Koplik
He loves your love.
- [82:50]
Alan Seals
Actress in a leading role in a play. Oh, man. Carrie Coon was great. Rose Byrne was great. Susanna Flood was great. Leslie Manville and Oedipus. Kelly o'. Hara. Kelly o' Hara was. Is. She was great to. At least. I think her character was the least interesting out of all of those five characters. I'm gonna go with Susanna. I'm going Susanna Flood on this one.
- [83:11]
Matt Koplik
Nice.
- [83:13]
Alan Seals
Best performance by an actor in a leading role in the musical. Oh, Chris. Nicholas. Christopher. Joshua Henry friend Rainowitz. I love Brandon. He's a friend of mine. I want to. I think Joshua's going to take it. I think Joshua's going to take it. But that's a tough category. This is a really tough category.
- [83:32]
Matt Koplik
Watch me. Watch me vote for Sam Tutty just to with everybody.
- [83:40]
Alan Seals
Okay, I'll give you two more. Let's see. Performance by an actress in a leading role in a musical. Sarah Chase, Stephanie Shoe, Casey Levy, Marlon Mandela. Chris. Johnny Pitts. Who left me saying, God, I want to see her again. Casey or Marla. Casey or Marla or Christiani. Eenie, meenie, miny, moe. Catch a Tony by its toe. I'm going with Marla. Hot take.
- [84:11]
Matt Koplik
If you're voting for Titanique, that's. I mean, that makes sense to me.
- [84:14]
Alan Seals
Right? Right. I mean, again, you want to go for the big story. Knowing where that came from, how she personally involved with where it was versus where it is now, she deserves all the awards.
- [84:24]
Matt Koplik
Great. And so you said revival of musical. You said Jellicoe ball. Revival of play. You said Oedipus.
- [84:30]
Alan Seals
Yes.
- [84:31]
Matt Koplik
So director of a play. Would you go Whitney White for Liberation or would you go Robert Ick for Oedipus? I'm gonna go Whitney White.
- [84:40]
Alan Seals
Great. I'm going Whitney White on that one.
- [84:43]
Matt Koplik
I love that for you. I love that for her.
- [84:45]
Alan Seals
Yeah. Any other categories that you know, I'm
- [84:47]
Matt Koplik
gonna drop my K bomb of a musical. What are you doing? What's happening? What's going on?
- [84:50]
Alan Seals
Set design.
- [84:51]
Matt Koplik
Sound design.
- [84:52]
Alan Seals
Sound design. Oh, let me. Let me photoshop. I'm shucking on my pen here, folks. It makes great microphone noises. All right. Sound design of a play. Justin Ellington. Tom. Let's see. So Justin Ellington for Joe Turner's coming. Gone. Tom Givens for Oedipus. Lee kenny fear of 13. Josh Schmidt for Bug. Mikhail Sue Leiden for art this fans. Oh, man. Sound design of a play. I'm going Bug. I thought that was great. That was great. That was great.
- [85:20]
Matt Koplik
I love looking in left field and finding you there.
- [85:22]
Alan Seals
So going strong. Strong with Bug on that one. I was like, o. I love that.
- [85:28]
Matt Koplik
I love it.
- [85:28]
Alan Seals
Those are good nature noises.
- [85:30]
Matt Koplik
Alan, thank you so much for joining us today and for joining all the chaos of the breakdown, of course.
- [85:36]
Alan Seals
Happy to have me. You happy to be here? Happy to have me.
- [85:41]
Matt Koplik
Yes, it's true. I'm happy.
- [85:42]
Alan Seals
I'm happy you're having Me
- [85:47]
Matt Koplik
so stupid. Where can people find you if you want them to find you?
- [85:51]
Alan Seals
Oh my goodness. At Theater Underscore Podcast. That's tre on most of the channels, most of the socials. The theater podcast dot com. I have both R&ER. So either one, you type it in, you'll find me. I. You can find me on the Broadway podcast network and yeah, that's everything. Hit me up on any of those and. But yeah, hit me up on those. Let me know you listened. Say, hey, I. I listened to you on the Coplick files. Let me know you're. You're out there.
- [86:25]
Matt Koplik
I think we should change the. That name, sir. I don't. I don't like that one bit.
- [86:31]
Alan Seals
The Coplifiles.
- [86:34]
Matt Koplik
The Coplings. That's what we're calling it.
- [86:36]
Alan Seals
Look, this is. This, this episode has been so coppolicious
- [86:42]
Matt Koplik
by Babe. Okay you guys, if you like this podcast, maybe not this episode, but if
- [86:45]
Alan Seals
you like this podcast, fuck you.
- [86:48]
Matt Koplik
Please give us a nice 5 star rating or review. You can follow me on Instagram at Matt Koplik only. Usual spelling Join the substack or the Discord if you haven't yet. Make sure to get your tickets. June 1st live show at Green Room 42. The slightly early Tony award show for Broadway Breakdown. And yeah, that's it. Oh, and then a fun thing. You'll see a link in the description box for this episode. But there is a new company that's slowly emerging that I found via Instagram. We've been discussing on. Via DMS a little bit sort of what's been going down and we agreed to have. I won't call it a collab but just cross promotion. Synergy. I'm going to call it synergy. That's a word I learned from 30.
- [87:33]
Alan Seals
It's French. It's synergy.
- [87:34]
Matt Koplik
Synergy. But it is called the Broadway Drop Shop and they are a company that is doing specially designed Broadway merch which as if you're a theater fan, you know a lot of Broadway merch. Much as we love the Broadway shows, the merch kind of sucks. So their aim is to curve that that and. And create specialized merch inspired by many of these shows that are limited edition. Limited edition limited edition
- [88:01]
Alan Seals
limited edition drops.
- [88:04]
Matt Koplik
So it's. They're all very exclusive, only a few items for each inspired show. They have the. The merch hasn't come out yet. You can sign up on their website which is. The link will be below. You can use a referral link from me and yeah, you're going to get exclusive offers, bunch of the merch, and you'll see in very short time just how good it all is. So get in on the ground floor and if they ask, Joe sent you. So.
- [88:33]
Alan Seals
And it's a.
- [88:34]
Matt Koplik
That's a pajama game reference, everybody.
- [88:35]
Alan Seals
If you want to understand what it is, just remember, it's unlimited dipshits here on the Koplik Files.
- [88:41]
Matt Koplik
Unlimited dipshits is my dating past, Alan, not. I date them and then I write plays about them. That's what I do. That was. That was a Freudian slip.
- [88:56]
Alan Seals
I like it. That's the pull quote right there on the Billboard, the Broadway, dropshop.com. all the unlimited dipshits you. You could find.
- [89:05]
Matt Koplik
All the unlimited dipshits you can find. Jesus Christ. Oh, yeah. It's also my DMs. Okay, that's it, Alan. We close out every episode with a diva. I'll put her in post. But what diva do you want to close out your episode with?
- [89:16]
Alan Seals
Bette Midler. I love it.
- [89:18]
Matt Koplik
Bette Midler. Specifically. Auto Titsling. Or do you want to do a different pet?
- [89:24]
Alan Seals
Anything Beaches related?
- [89:25]
Matt Koplik
Fantastic. Auto Titsling it is. All right, thank you so much for listening, everybody. We will catch you next week with some more Tony stuff. Take it away, Bet. Bye. I'm gonna make me a million from this. Every woman in the world will want to buy one. I will have all the goods manufactured in Taiwan. The result of this swindle is pointedly clear.