← Broadway Breakdown
Broadway Breakdown
Talking w/ Tony Nominee Heather Hach & Announcing the New Series!
01:06:56
A conversation with acclaimed writer Heather Hach
Loading summary
Transcript307 lines
- [00:16]
Heather Hach
Dear Ally, He's a lucky guy. I'm, like, gonna cry. I got tears coming out of my nose. Mad pride. He's a campus catch. You're a perfect match. Cause you both have such great taste in clothes. Of course he will grow up.
- [00:33]
Matt Koplik
Hello, all you theater lovers, both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to a special episode of Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history unt legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I'm your host, Matt Koblick, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And it's not really a false start so much as a little nugget of treasure for you guys, because we are not coming back with our next series just yet. I'll tell you what that is at the end of this episode, but it is a special episode where we get to talk to a wonderful writer. She's got a new book coming out in October called the Trouble with Drowning, but you might best know her from two iconic scripts she's written, one for film, the classic remake Freaky Friday and the musical of 2007. For many of you, Legally Blonde. Please welcome to Heather Hawk. Hi, Heather.
- [01:28]
Heather Hach
Hello, how are you? And thank you for pronouncing my last name right. No one does.
- [01:32]
Matt Koplik
Well, I wouldn't be doing my job correctly if I didn't go down 10 different YouTube rabbit holes and confirmed on three different videos how to say your last name because.
- [01:41]
Heather Hach
Like Bach with an H. Like Bach.
- [01:43]
Matt Koplik
With an H. As someone whose last name is Koplik, I know how frustrating it can be when someone just wings it. So I tried to try to be professional today. That's the last professional thing I'm going to do on this episode. So here we go. Heather, question for you. As the writer of. As the co writer of Freaky Friday and the writer of Leak Leap on the musical, what is it like to walk around every day knowing you're iconic?
- [02:06]
Heather Hach
Oh, well, I do not feel it most days almost. You know, I think this is the truth. Everyone's living their life. I do very often get reminded of the joy that it still brings people, you know, and it'll be like a random. Someone will just say, oh, I caught it on tv, or, you know, it made me laugh, or I, you know, my. My daughter's doing the show and it just. It's so thrilling to know that it still goes on.
- [02:36]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely. So how did you get your start into writing? What was sort of your channel into that?
- [02:42]
Heather Hach
I was a journalism major and I didn't really think that the entertainment industry was available to me because I grew up in Iowa and Colorado, so it just wasn't a viable plan. You know, I didn't know anybody, but I was always a movie freak, always a Broadway show. You know, I just. I loved it all, and so. But I went into journalism, so I worked for the New York Times Denver bureau. That was my first job. And I also did improv comedy with a troupe for four years with Comedy Sports in Denver. And my favorite game to play was Broadway musical.
- [03:25]
Matt Koplik
Wait, Broadway? What. What. What game is that? You just. You have to create a Broadway musical or you have to name Broadway musicals.
- [03:30]
Heather Hach
You get a. You get a topic, you know, and then you do a show in five minutes. But you get to, like, break into Little Song, and. Yeah, it was just so fun, and I just loved. I would just be excited when we got that suggestion.
- [03:46]
Matt Koplik
What. So what are some of your favorite musicals?
- [03:50]
Heather Hach
Oh, I have so many. I mean, I grew up kind of more of a movie musical person, to be honest, because I didn't have as much access. But, like, seeing Grace was one of the most defining moments of my life. Of course, I was the last. My cousin and I were the last two tickets to sit in the very front row, and it just blew my mind and tried to cut my sheets up when coloring with black Sharpie so I could have Sandy slutty pants.
- [04:15]
Matt Koplik
Mm.
- [04:17]
Heather Hach
I loved Little Shop of Horrors. Like, in high school, I had the, you know, album, and everyone's listening to Bon Jovi, and I was listening to.
- [04:27]
Matt Koplik
Little Shop of Horrors, so soul sister Heather, please.
- [04:32]
Heather Hach
Yeah, I've always loved musicals. And, you know, when I first was approached to do Legally Blonde, I was a little bit dubious because I'm like, what do I know? But my mother is such a. She's like a living Broadway musical. Like, if she was here, she would just. Hello, Matt. How are you? I'm Muriel. And she's just. No. So I know all the songs without knowing that I'd seen them.
- [04:58]
Matt Koplik
I mean, that's sort of. That's the beauty of, you know, when theater is introduced to you so young, you. You grow up with. With it part of. Just as your life and not, like, as an education. So when people ask you, what do you know? It's like, well, I don't know. And then you realize you actually know a lot because it's just ingrained in you.
- [05:13]
Heather Hach
Yeah. And it's everywhere.
- [05:15]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. How did. How did you get. Sorry, you were gonna say.
- [05:17]
Heather Hach
No, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
- [05:18]
Matt Koplik
How. How did you get Approached to do.
- [05:20]
Heather Hach
Legally Blonde, they Hal Lig and Kristen Kaski, Mike Isaacson, they were searching. They really wanted a woman book writer, and there aren't that many. And they went and saw Freaky Friday and there was something about the voice that they thought could be a good fit. So I went to this lunch just sort of dubious. And I was intrigued because I loved Legally Blonde and I related to the character and I, I thought it was a fun concept. But I was like, I said just a little bit dubious. But when I met them, I was like, oh, they're my people. Like, we were hysterically laughing within, like five minutes. I was just like, these are my people. And I knew intuitively this is what I'm supposed to do.
- [06:04]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. So with this kind of project, because both Freaky Friday and Weekly Blonde are adaptations, there's, you know, a story.
- [06:11]
Heather Hach
That's what I love. I love adaptations.
- [06:13]
Matt Koplik
And they're really difficult to do. People don't realize that. I want to talk because this is a Broadway podcast. We will be talking about Legally Blonde quite a bit, but you were mistaken if you think I'm not going to be bringing up Freaky Friday because that, I mean, I'm not a scientist, but I do think it's scientifically proven to be the best of the Freaky Fridays. And I've seen all of them. Yes. And. And as my listeners know, I'm not a. I'm not an easy flatterer. So I, I stand. I stand by.
- [06:43]
Heather Hach
I just read your piece on the.
- [06:45]
Matt Koplik
Shark broke or the shark is broken.
- [06:47]
Heather Hach
Oh, shark is broken. And you got to understand, I am like the biggest Jaws fan. I can have, like four hour conversations about Jaws. And so I'm totally intrigued, but I was really interested in what you had to say.
- [06:59]
Matt Koplik
And I, I love Jaws as well. It's. So there's another thing I had seen recently, and I'll be writing a review for that shortly, another musical adaptation of a movie. And it will shall rename, remain nameless right now. But let's just say it's not a creative adaptation of the movie. It is pretty much the movie on stage with some songs plugged in. And it bothers me because something like Legally Blonde, I think, really works so well because it's this great balance of things that we know from the movie and love that we know work and then all these surprises as well that keep us engaged and give the musical a reason for existing. It's sort of like, you know, like in Titanic, people always joke, well, you know how it's Going to end. What's the point? But the magic trick is you don't know how you're going to get there. And I think the best adaptations do that. You sort of know what the outcome is going to be if you love the previous material. But with an adaptation, it's like, well, let's throw in some surprises. So it's not quite how you expected. And that's what I love with the Legally Blonde musical. I think it's such a wonderful balance. And there are certain things that you dug into that I thought the movie did well, but, you know, you found some deeper meanings in there. I. There was one change you made where several. You only made one change. There's only one in the entire thing. What if it was Illegally Blonde? But one of the changes you made that I loved was the way that Vivian and Warner both Witness Callahan assaulting Elle.
- [08:48]
Heather Hach
It had more power, right?
- [08:50]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely. So much more power. And Vivian clocked it for what it truly was, whereas Warner did not. And it was one of those subtle moments that nuanced moments that you rarely get in musicals, especially one as big and as bubbly as Bleakly Blonde. So I really loved that change. Thank you. Yeah, it's. I mean, and so like, the. The story beat is still there, but how you do it is slightly different. I think that's so wonderful. How was your. What was sort of your process heading into it, writing the musical?
- [09:20]
Heather Hach
Yeah, it was. Exactly. That was. The big challenge is we have to honor why people are so obsessed with her still today and why people love the movie so much. But there's no point to doing it if it didn't bring that other layer. And honestly, the biggest change that I saw that I was excited about was the relationship between Emmett and Elle. I mean, they're almost non existent. I mean, they talk on a park bench.
- [09:48]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [09:49]
Heather Hach
And he's Luke Wilson. And so therefore they are meant to be. I mean, it just doesn't make any sense. And also, the Warner, like, the two actors looked interchangeable. Like, it just wasn't like, Luke Wilson is your big. I'm gonna grow as human. Okay. So there was a real opportunity to really add a lot of depth to it and reinvention and just like, you know, anything I want to work on, I just want to remember that I'm going to be an audience member and what do I want to see?
- [10:22]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, that's. I think that's always the number one thing to think about is what would entertain me. And then you.
- [10:28]
Heather Hach
Me.
- [10:29]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you hope that it entertains others. Uh, so by expanding on the L emmet romance, do you remember where it came from, the idea that he's the one that sort of helps her sort of buckle down and study and become really serious about law school?
- [10:46]
Heather Hach
Well, I think it was just sort of inevitable if he was going to be really intrinsic in her bettering herself and finding herself. And of course, he doesn't do it for her, but he is a great force in her life. Just like anyone. You align yourself with people who make you better people.
- [11:02]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely.
- [11:03]
Heather Hach
And bring out the best version of you. And I think that was kind of what we dialed in on, is that Emmett was someone who was going to see her for who she was and not make the assumption that everyone else did. Yeah. And give her a chance. And they were both such unlikely cohorts and. And connected because they were both kind of misfits in this world.
- [11:27]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. What I love about the change, and I talked about it on our episode about Legally Blonde. We covered Legally Blonde about a year ago on the podcast. We did a series called Underestimated, which was about shows that came to Broadway and whether they had some success or not. They got more success after their Broadway run, which I think is very true for Legally Blonde. I mean, you guys were huge in London and you're produced all the time now in schools and, you know, regional theaters, and so much of the score has become highly acclaimed in the theater community. But something that I said that I really loved about the Emmett L Change because when sometimes I'll go on the webs to read opinions, and some people have points, some people just have a computer, which is, I think, the politest way to say it. And something that bothered me about a few people who have had an issue with the change, they said, well, I don't like that he helps her because she should do it alone. And I always hated that mentality. And what I loved about Emmett helping Elle was something about our country, about America, that people think if you don't do it alone, you didn't really do it. You know, like we're told it takes.
- [12:44]
Heather Hach
Only I can fix it. I alone.
- [12:46]
Matt Koplik
Exactly. Exactly. The only thing that people will agree to, you know, community helping is, you know, child reari. It takes a village. Except now it's like, don't tell me how to raise my child, even though it takes a village. Double edged sword. But I love the fact that just because she had someone who believed in her, who sort of gave her the push, doesn't mean she didn't earn her success.
- [13:05]
Heather Hach
That's right.
- [13:06]
Matt Koplik
She's still herself. And the intelligence comes from her. The way she views law comes directly from her. But he. You know, I don't think that it's ever weak to ask for help or to need help. And I love that Elle still gets to the same place, and it's. It's a double whammy. She gets to the same place she does in the movie, and it. She gets it with the help of Emmett, which also then strengthens the romantic plot with him. So it's just a wonderful change that I think you guys did. And it's done in a musical sequence, so it makes it a musical.
- [13:38]
Heather Hach
Exactly. And I'm sorry, I. I would argue that almost anyone who has any success, you had someone along the way that helped you.
- [13:47]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely.
- [13:47]
Heather Hach
Period. I mean, I don't care what we're talking about. Whether it's heart surgery or writing a musical or fixing a car or whatever, there's someone who was a mentor for you and someone who opened a door for you and made you better.
- [14:03]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [14:03]
Heather Hach
That's what that relationship was.
- [14:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And I think it's so wonderful. And it also then has this wonderful, nuanced ending with Warner where you didn't make him the total jackass he is in the movie, which, you know, is also such. Something you didn't have to do because it would have been so easy for the audience in that theater to sort of, you know, boo Warner because he gets his comeuppance, Elle dumps him and all this other stuff. But he also has, like, his own mini journey in that show. And when he comes back to propose to Elle, she recognizes that he's trying to go back to what he's. What he knows and what he's familiar with. She goes, I've just come so far the last year, and I'm so excited that you get to have that same journey now without me go do that. And it's a very humane way to treat that character who didn't necessarily need to, or in other ways, deserve it. And I don't know. I just think that's very smart, humane writing something that not a lot of people do.
- [15:02]
Heather Hach
Well, that's Nell Benjamin, who wrote. My answer is thank you, but no, it's very, very kind. You know, it wasn't. It could have been snarky. It could have been a. Yeah. A slap and that kind of a moment. But it wasn't. That wasn't. That's not who she was. Part of the joy of her and why she made me A better person is because she does see the good in everybody.
- [15:25]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [15:26]
Heather Hach
Is a universal L quality. That is just really wonderful to live with that.
- [15:33]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. She has knives in her back pocket, but she only brings them out for very special occasions. And she doesn't stab. She just does a little. Yes, exactly.
- [15:42]
Heather Hach
It's more sort of you in her pocket to retaliate.
- [15:45]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [15:46]
Heather Hach
But that's about just, you know, standing on your own. I. I don't want to make her a pushover either.
- [15:51]
Matt Koplik
No, she's. No, she's. She's tough. She's got to be. I think anyone who has. Who makes it out in this world at any point has to have a little toughness in order to make it. But, you know, we see that she. She isn't. As you said, she's not a pushover. She's not super gullible. Just because she believes in positivity doesn't mean that she's blind to when people can be shitty, because then you have the opposite of that, which is, you know, toxic positivity, which is, I mean, blinders on.
- [16:18]
Heather Hach
Because you. You can't see the truth of, you.
- [16:22]
Matt Koplik
Know, she doesn't not see bad stuff. She'll see it and then she'll try to make it better. And I think that is that positivity and not toxic positivity. What was a particular challenge for you when approaching Legally Blonde?
- [16:39]
Heather Hach
Mostly a little bit what we talked about before. It's just really wanting to get that sweet spot right of familiarity with originality. And, I mean, I honestly sometimes think my naivete on the whole project probably served me really well. I think sometimes the more, you know, the more intimidated you can be. And I just brought kind of that Elle woods happiness and joy to it. And. And I almost, like, I had no idea the New York Times review would matter so much. I just, you know, all these things I just didn't understand until it was. It happened.
- [17:18]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [17:20]
Heather Hach
So I was like. One mistake I. I completely made is I was using my screen lighting, screenwriting knowledge and. And logic. Like, you could change sets like that. So I was, like, kind of oblivious to the form a bit. But, you know, I had such a great team and we had such a good time, and it was just such a joy. It wasn't always a joy, but it really was.
- [17:46]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I mean, any artistic endeavor is not going to be Sunshine and Rainbows 24 7. When everyone cares so much and wants to make something good. You're going to butt heads from time to time, but that's just the Fact of the matter, is there a particular line in the script that you come back to every now and again and go like, yeah, I did that. That's a good one. Like a certain joke.
- [18:10]
Heather Hach
You know what I'm most proud of and most proud of? The Gloria Steinem.
- [18:17]
Matt Koplik
Playboy bunny line.
- [18:18]
Heather Hach
Oh, is that what you see? Because I'm Gloria Steinem circa 1963, manifesting for her feminist manifesto. I was a playboy buddy. It just was like such a great link, you know, and just was such a wonderful opportunity that I'm always really, really proud. I will say that it went over better in San Francisco than anywhere else. San Francisco went crazy for that. And then in New York, people weren't as nuts about it, and I was. I mean, it went over always well, but in, like, San Francisco, people went insane. And it was so satisfying.
- [18:53]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I. I have watched a boot, like, from the San Francisco run. I don't know when in the run it is, but I think the show's pretty frozen. And I gotta say, that audience is going wild for it.
- [19:06]
Heather Hach
That, I think hurt us in the end how.
- [19:10]
Matt Koplik
How well received it was in San Francisco.
- [19:11]
Heather Hach
It was so well received. People started showing up in, you know, dressed up as Al and drag, and people were having. And it was like setting some records, I remember. Yeah, people loved it. And people. You know, I really believe that people treated Legally Blonde like they treated Elle when she showed up at Harvard.
- [19:31]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's. I mean, it's a shame because it is a good musical. And I think that because I was in high school in New York at the time, and I'm very much always been invested in the theater scene. And I remember when you guys were in San Francisco and the buzz was such that everyone was like, oh, this could be the show of the season. And we'd already had Grey Gardens and Spring Awakening out. And then I don't know what exactly it was it came in. And I mean, there's always been a bit of a stigma on movies adapted into musicals. And as I mentioned, there are some shows that keep that stigma alive. And then there are shows, likely Bond, that do kind of buck the trend. And I don't know. I think there, I want to say that was what kind of did it in at the Tonys. But then, God damn, Mary Poppins gets in there instead. People still shout shenanigans about it to this day, which they should.
- [20:29]
Heather Hach
I feel like, really interesting. I. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, Ben Brantley at the New York Times said that my book was vulgar.
- [20:37]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, he did say that.
- [20:39]
Heather Hach
Vulgar.
- [20:39]
Matt Koplik
Vulgar. Because you make a JetBlue reference.
- [20:43]
Heather Hach
Because what is vulgar about Legally Blonde? I literally have no idea what he's talking about.
- [20:48]
Matt Koplik
There's nothing. Listen. There are times when I would agree with them, Branley. And then other times where I'm like, did we see the same show? And. Or it's like, I understand you didn't like the show, but, like, you're not talking about what's there. You're talking about what you saw in your head or, like, what your preconceived notions of it are.
- [21:05]
Heather Hach
It's about. With a perception of. People are going to think I'm stupid.
- [21:09]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [21:09]
Heather Hach
If I like this show about a blonde woman. And, you know, I'm sorry. She was an incredible post feminist hero, and the way that she was discounted is. Is so. Speaks to the kind of just inherent misogyny that exists.
- [21:27]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely.
- [21:28]
Heather Hach
Women's stories.
- [21:29]
Matt Koplik
Well, it's something that's interesting right now with the Barbie movie, because I feel like there are a lot of parallels to that. Yes. Right. Yes. Yes.
- [21:37]
Heather Hach
I was sobbing. I wrote a letter to the editor, to the New York Times. They printed my letter about Barbie.
- [21:43]
Matt Koplik
I need to see that.
- [21:45]
Heather Hach
Yeah. And I. I was so upset about the review that they gave it, which wasn't good enough. And I know I'm working at my own bullshit with the New York Times and their critics, but it just wasn't as. I was like, literally, she wrote, next time, I hope Greta really gets to shine and gets full reign in her imagination. I'm like, what movie did you see?
- [22:11]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Yeah.
- [22:13]
Heather Hach
What are you talking about?
- [22:14]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I remember the review for the Times when it came out, like, it wasn't. It wasn't negative. It was sort of.
- [22:20]
Heather Hach
It wasn't good.
- [22:21]
Matt Koplik
It was, like, muted. It was sort of like.
- [22:22]
Heather Hach
It was. That was exactly what he did with our show. It's like, here's some great things, but keep in mind.
- [22:29]
Matt Koplik
And I feel like it's. I was literally just talking to somebody about this today about another show where there are some works out there that are feminist stories written by men. And they're so simplistic to me, because it just sort of decries that feminism is one thing listeners can, you know, take on on their own account, what shows I'm talking about. But the idea that, you know, feminism equals. A woman has to be outside of any kind of relationship or outside of any kind of femininity. She has to always wear pants. She has to be strong. She can't need any man. And I Mean, it's just so singular. And what I like about Legally Blonde and Barbie and what they share in DNA is like, they are feminist through their strength and independence and their intelligence, but they're also very feminine, you know, unapologetically so. And I think that is sort of where we see a different. Not different kind. All sexism is sexism, but a facet of sexism where it is. I'm all for, you know, women being strong, but don't be too girly about it. It's like, well, what are we doing here?
- [23:41]
Heather Hach
Right? And I thought it was all about letting people be who they are.
- [23:46]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [23:46]
Heather Hach
There's just. There can be such a rigidity around roles now that, you know, frankly, is part of why. Anyway, don't. I don't.
- [23:57]
Matt Koplik
No, no, please, please, please. This is. But this is something that's in your whole milieu with this and Freaky Friday and. And so many other things. Just, you know, with. Think about, like, Enid, right, in Legally Blonde and how, you know, she's not impervious to judging a book by its cover. She sees Elle and she thinks, like, what are you doing? You know, we. You're setting women back here by showing up all in pink and being hyper, girly and feminine. But Elle proves to her that she can be just as smart and just as tough as she is, but she can do it in her own style. And Enid accepts that, and they become cohorts and equals. An understanding. And same thing with Vivian. And it's. I think it's a wonderful way to understand that. You know, it's. It's sort of how people are kind of finally realizing that the not like other girl trope is also very sexist. Because by saying, oh, you're so special. You're not like other girls. It's like, oh, so you're saying all other women are trash then, because I'm not like them.
- [24:53]
Heather Hach
Right.
- [24:54]
Matt Koplik
Screw that.
- [24:55]
Heather Hach
Right. I mean, the whole thing is that we're supposed to get to a place where people just get to be who they are.
- [25:01]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [25:01]
Heather Hach
I mean, I thought that was kind of the goal of. Of the kind of neoliberal ideology of just let people be who they are. And I see such rules on everything that it's. That's part of why I don't like that structured thought process.
- [25:19]
Matt Koplik
And that's why, you know, neither do I. Neither do I. And. And there's a fluidity to our identity. Just because we are a certain kind of way in this moment, we can change as, you know, the more of life experience we get and people we meet. Someone once said to me, like, oh, don't find such and such show problematic. And remember that word, guys. It's going to be a wonderful treasure word later. But problematic because of this character who does this thing. And I'm like, you're aware that most good stories are about somebody making a bad decision 90% of the time, learning, and then starting to make a right decision.
- [25:51]
Heather Hach
That's right. That's the redemptive arc of our protagonist.
- [25:56]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Yeah. And Elle goes to law school for, you know, a reason that ends up changing. You know, people may not love the reason she goes to law school, but what does it matter? It's her choice. And she ends up changing her way as she learns more about herself along the way. That's what makes it a good story. And on that note, Heather, we gotta do two things. I want to now talk about Freaky Friday, but before we do that, we gotta take a quick break.
- [26:21]
Heather Hach
Really? I beg to differ with you.
- [26:22]
Matt Koplik
How do you mean?
- [26:23]
Heather Hach
You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred.
- [26:37]
Matt Koplik
And we're back. Okay, sorry. Now that I'm on a network, I always have to take breaks so Papa can get, like, his $5 for the month. Yeah. So may I ask how Freaky Friday came into your path?
- [26:52]
Heather Hach
I moved from Denver, which I was in yesterday. I saw Duran Duran at Red Rocks. I'm from Colorado. Anyway, I moved from Denver to LA to become a screenwriter. I went through a really terrible divorce. So there's something about the Elvis story, too, that I really relate to with being dumped and still wanting your life to work out and put it keep moving on. So I kind of put together, like, after this tragedy befell my life, what do I love? And I loved comedy, I love writing, and I love movies. So I decided to become a screenwriter and move out here. And I won the Walt Disney fellowship with the script based on my divorce called I Used to be an honor student. I wanted to do, like, a Nora Ephron younger woman's heartburn.
- [27:48]
Matt Koplik
Mm.
- [27:49]
Heather Hach
And I won. And my first assignment was Freaky Friday because I wrote a very dark, like, Heather's esque comedy set at a sorority that got a lot of attention. And at one point, there was people who wanted to do it and blah, blah, blah. But because of that, that script that I wrote called Not Kappa Material, I got Freaky Friday.
- [28:10]
Matt Koplik
So how familiar were you With Freaky Friday, when you were assigned it did you know the book, the movie.
- [28:16]
Heather Hach
I read the book when I was little, loved it and I. We went down to Des Moines. It was a big deal when it came out. I remember it clearly. It was the. That day I got a.2 stuffed monkeys that hug around that. You wrap their arms around each other and they can hold onto each other. But we did not like the movie. My family, yeah, we were sort of worse. A little bit of snobs sometimes, but it just was, you know, oh, it's crazy to do the laundry, you know, and it just was a car got cut in half and, you know, it was just one of those dis. When Disney was making those real stinker, you know, movies in the 70s that were just like that darn cat and now kind of have their own charm, but they're actually terrible.
- [29:03]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, absolutely. There's definitely a charm to them because they're so messy and odd. I mean, Mary Rogers also famously hated the movie as well, so you're in good company.
- [29:13]
Heather Hach
But she loved the. The script, the. She loved the movie, the new one, and she wrote Eisner, Michael Eisner, and they forwarded it to the creative team and I started a friendship with her. And then I got to write Freaky Monday, this book, YA novel with her.
- [29:31]
Matt Koplik
That's wonderful. So having read the book, having seen the movie, not liking it. Although I would be sad if we did not at least acknowledge that Barbara Harris, cinema icon. Love her, love her, love her. You know, movie's not very good, but she's great. And Jodie Foster does a very nice job, but it is an odd movie. The 70s were a weird decade for Disney, for sure, but yeah, and there.
- [29:56]
Heather Hach
Was such an opportunity to talk about women's roles and how they changed so much. So it was a complete. Made sense to me why they. That should be remade. You know, it. There's more going on than just doing laundry 1,000%.
- [30:15]
Matt Koplik
And I mean, that's what I love is in, you know, Tess is. Is the mom, right? It's Tess. Yeah, Anna. Tess and Anna.
- [30:26]
Heather Hach
Yeah.
- [30:26]
Matt Koplik
Tess is a professional, a working professional. She's a therapist and, you know, runs her own household in a, you know, a very unique way, which I love. When you were approaching the adaptation, what was one of the first things you did want to address? Was it. Was it the fact that, you know, there's more to womanhood than just laundry?
- [30:46]
Heather Hach
Yeah, I wanted mom to work and I wanted, you know, when she was a therapist, she thought she knew it all, you know, I wanted that to pull the, you know, everything I do kind of has a musicality to it. So the fact that she was in a band, I really wanted to be that she was going to open for Gwen Stefani, like had a chance to open at this. That was the whole goal at one point. And it, you know, it just had its 20 year anniversary and there was a big article in the Hollywood Reporter about it and the director completely mischaracterized. I was, I was so devastated and I probably shouldn't talk about it, but he said that he came up like with the whole band thing and I'm like, I literally have the script.
- [31:35]
Matt Koplik
I'm sorry, that's. No, that's sucky.
- [31:38]
Heather Hach
I mean, he made it better with his vision. I'm not trying to deny, but like, he's like, yeah, she worked for the paper and she wanted to get an interview with Gwen Stefani. I'm like, no.
- [31:48]
Matt Koplik
Well, at least he remembered Gwen Stefani, I guess. But I mean, yeah, people. I mean, I don't know him. We can cut this whole bit if you want, but it just hurt.
- [31:58]
Heather Hach
It just.
- [31:59]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, no, that does hurt. I mean, I think a lot of people, when something works and is beloved and you look back on it, you know, people always want to take credit.
- [32:07]
Heather Hach
For being the hero.
- [32:09]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And. And even if it's like, you know, you look in the reality, the situation was, oh, yes, I made this one adjustment. 20 years later becomes I had the whole idea and that. But that also just goes against the grain of what collaboration is supposed to be, which I, which bugs me. But that aside, was it your idea also to get rid of the dad? Because the dad has always been a part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [32:34]
Heather Hach
When I, when I, I remember that scene, writing that scene, you know, where they, they kind of accept each other and they. The toast.
- [32:42]
Matt Koplik
Yep.
- [32:43]
Heather Hach
I remember crying. I like wrote, wrote it and I was crying. It was really cathartic thing. Yeah, I felt that one, you know. But yeah, not having dad was important, you know.
- [32:53]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely. And then it creates a whole new emotional state that she's getting remarried and there's a wedding coming and a rehearsal dinner. Because in the 70s, first of all, in the book, while the book is very charming, there are no real stakes. Like there's no kind of ticking clock about any event or some sort. So they have that in the 70s movie. But it's like a water skiing event of some sort.
- [33:15]
Heather Hach
I know, yeah. Water skiing.
- [33:17]
Matt Koplik
It's like a. It's like a word jumble. It's. They like pick things out of a hat and they're like, here you go. It's a water skiing event.
- [33:24]
Heather Hach
Right.
- [33:25]
Matt Koplik
But no, there. This was, you know, less action heavy and more character and emotion based, which was lovely. And it does offer this wonderful heart to the movie. I don't know if you remember this. Speaking of the New York Times, your movie actually got Oscar buzz for a while because when, when it came out, the time said the performance Jamie Lee Curtis is giving is the kind of. Yeah, should be Oscar nominated.
- [33:51]
Heather Hach
And I think that was Ayo Scott, who I tend to agree with.
- [33:54]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, he's. He doesn't always get it right for me. But again, even. Yeah. And again, even if I disagree, I'll read and I'll go, I see, I see how you got here. If I disagree with someone, I want to at least know how they got there. If I can't see that, then I'm like, I don't know what we're doing here. But yeah, then also, Jamie Lee Curtis was a very famously last minute addition to the movie. Correct?
- [34:18]
Heather Hach
Yeah, it was going to be Annette Benning up until the very end. She was filming that Kevin Costner movie all summer. No, it came and went. It never made a big dent, but she had been filming that all summer and so I think she just didn't want to do it. And then of course, the director said it was because the script was so terrible. I'm like, oh. But she literally dropped out when the script was the shooting script that is acclaimed. So was just. Doesn't make sense, you know, probably just.
- [34:55]
Matt Koplik
You know, wanted a little more time to relax after having to deal with Costner. Don't we all?
- [35:01]
Heather Hach
Yeah. She even told Andrew Gunn with the producer. I'm so glad it was Jamie. She was better.
- [35:09]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it was, it was a truly perfect choice when Jamie Lee Curtis came in. I mean, so, like, obviously with filmmaking and with stage, you have your script, but still things happen. Sometimes with an actor energy or sometimes things, you know, maybe a day of shooting has to get rearranged. You have to sometimes make changes on the fly. Uh, did anything like that happen with Freaky Friday?
- [35:34]
Heather Hach
Um, you know, she, she added a lot of physicality to it, like of spinning over the couch and, you know, she's just such a great physical comedian. And what's so funny too is that my mom has been told her whole life she looks like Jamie Lee Curtis. So the fact that like the mom that I wrote looks like, you know, to the point that my mom is a joke like, if you tell her you look like Jamie Lee Curtis, she says, oh, it's the body.
- [36:01]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And Ms. Lohan, we.
- [36:07]
Heather Hach
You know, I. I think she's doing better. I mean, she's got a kid now and. Yeah, she's. She was so good in the movie.
- [36:14]
Matt Koplik
She was.
- [36:15]
Heather Hach
She was so charming. I'm. I. I knew she struggled a lot. You know, I'd heard stories, but. Oh, yeah, doing well. So.
- [36:25]
Matt Koplik
But, I mean, I'm not even talking about her and her harsh years because.
- [36:28]
Heather Hach
So good in it.
- [36:29]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I mean, I was so. I was. I was 13 when that movie came out. And then the next year was Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen and Mean Girls. And I have taught theater to kids in. In the past, and I'm a millennial, teaching Gen Zers and all this stuff. And I remember when the Mean Girls musical was coming out and I was teaching them, they were asking if I was going to go see it, and I knew I was eventually. But I was like. I said, I don't know. The movie is so important to me. And they go, why? And I. I had to take a beat. And I said. It was summer of 2003, Freaky Friday was coming out, and Lindsay Lohan had returned to us after Parent Trap. And I said to them, you don't understand how important she was to my generation for, like, years. And it started with Freaky Friday because Parent Trap was so huge. And then, you know, she kind of took some time, you know, to do smaller projects and mature from 11 to 15. And then I just remember when the trailer for Freaky Friday came out, first of all, looked like a blast. And it was a blast. But I just remember we all saw that Lindsay was in it, and we were like, she has returned. And.
- [37:41]
Heather Hach
Really?
- [37:42]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm sure it didn't feel like that way to you guys because you were knee deep in it, but to the. To her core audience, it felt like she had returned to us after doing, you know, two TV movies in between Parent Rap and that.
- [37:57]
Heather Hach
That's great.
- [37:58]
Matt Koplik
And to come back with such a notable title in a movie that was so good that everyone enjoyed. So it wasn't. It would be one thing if the movie weren't good and it was like, oh, yeah, well, Lindsay's back. But whatever. But the movie was so, so good. So it really kind of set her up with then Mean Girls coming in and though that. It's that one, two punch. And we acknowledge Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen, similar to you with the 70s Freaky Friday, it's like, we like it because it's a mess, but it's not actually good in the way that Freaky Friday and Mean Girls are. But the whole. Her whole renaissance started with you guys and that whole movie and that and what she was able to do in it. And she is so good in it, and Jamie is so good in it. It's just a wonderful film. I was gonna ask more like, creative questions about it, but I'm just fangirling, so I apologize. That's not good. Not good journalism on my part, Heather.
- [38:49]
Heather Hach
Thank you.
- [38:50]
Matt Koplik
Well, so I. Okay, so I write myself and I just finished a script this summer for a play. And for my listeners who are also writers, what is some advice you would give just in terms of the actual process of it? Like, what is your process? How do you get yourself going?
- [39:10]
Heather Hach
Yeah, it's. It's so fluid. I. I find it really almost like therapy to talk about writing because it's such a strange animal and there's. There's so many rules that change all the time for me personally, like why I have a great writing day and why I suck and should fold sweaters to the Gap. I mean, it's just so interesting how much it changes on a day to day basis. I think the biggest thing I recommend to people is to read a ton. I read a ton. I see a lot. I just think it's inspiring to. To be in touch with that and to always be inspired to want to do that for yourself and to surround yourself with people who inspire this storytelling. And just when you approach life as a writer, it's a secret. It's this wonderful gift because everything can be potentially interesting, even mindless, horrible, weird details of your life. When you look at it from a writer's perspective and just being really observational and interested and finding the comedy and where there really shouldn't be any. I mean, that I think is like a gift of. You don't have to wait in line at the dmv. You have an opportunity at the dmv. And like, it's just. It's just such a great way to see the world is to. Is to be a writer.
- [40:49]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely. And with your book. So is this your first book that you've written?
- [40:55]
Heather Hach
I wrote Freaky Monday with.
- [40:58]
Matt Koplik
You said that. You said that. I'm sorry, I'm running. I'm running on a rice cake and a coffee. I'm forgetting everything I said and did so with. So you've now written in various mediums. Film stage.
- [41:13]
Heather Hach
Isn't it kind of a Legally Blondie cover.
- [41:16]
Matt Koplik
It's kind of like Legally Blonde meets promising young woman. Does that make sense?
- [41:20]
Heather Hach
Thank you.
- [41:21]
Matt Koplik
You're welcome. I just gave you a compliment. Yay. You know, it's like, it's. It's sort of like Legally Blonde through the lens of promising young woman. Talk to us about this book for a second. The Trouble with Drowning by Heather.
- [41:39]
Heather Hach
Yeah, I. During COVID when everyone. It felt like the world was falling apart. And it was. I just started compulsively reading. And I read anyway a lot, but I was like, really reading. That was my. My way to get through. And it made me feel like when I was a little girl, how I. When I first found Judy Blume and, you know, Little House on the Prairie and Nancy Drew, and I just was reading, reading, reading, and I was like, you know what? I want to do this. Like, why don't I try my hand at this? Because I've had this idea for a psychological thriller. I love psychological thrillers. I think they're so much fun. I love Hitchcock. I'm like a. I have this. People always say, she. I'm a very dark blonde.
- [42:30]
Matt Koplik
I mean, you're a Hitchcock blonde.
- [42:32]
Heather Hach
I. Well, we can always. We can only be so lucky. But I've had this idea. So I just said, I'm going to start writing. And so I read several writing. You know, how to's on. On writing by Stephen King, one of my favorite writers. Then the cat writes a novel that was really helpful to me. And I just. Because of not doing anything during COVID I just started writing obsessively this novel. And it was so much fun. It was like. It was actually. It's about mental health and it's about a lot of different things, but it was about mental health. But it's about me trying to hold on to my mental health during COVID.
- [43:11]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I mean, we all can relate to that. And it being a thriller just makes it very exciting. I wish my brain could create the plot of a thriller. I love reading them. And I'm like, how. How do you make all the pieces fit? Because every time I try to think of some intricate plot, I confuse myself. And so I. I think it's just a genre that I can enjoy, but it's not necessarily something I can make my brain. But maybe that's why my brain loves it so much, because I can't crack it myself. So I like seeing how other people do it.
- [43:41]
Heather Hach
It was a. It was a challenge. This is a slow burn. This isn't like all the Bodies are stacking up. It's about obsession and about mental illness, and it's not, you know, slasher or any of that kind of thing.
- [43:57]
Matt Koplik
I love a good slasher. I'm a big fan of Scream, but also something like Rear Window or Vertigo are.
- [44:04]
Heather Hach
Window.
- [44:05]
Matt Koplik
Rear Windows. Let's take this moment to make a public service announcement to all of my listeners out here. Rear Window is one of the greatest movies ever made.
- [44:14]
Heather Hach
Ever made.
- [44:15]
Matt Koplik
Ever made. It still slaps. It's my favorite Grace Kelly performance to this day. It is gorgeous to look at, and it is tense like a motherfucker. It is so good.
- [44:25]
Heather Hach
That actually might be my one setting.
- [44:27]
Matt Koplik
One setting. One setting. It's so theatrical, yet so cinematic at the same time.
- [44:31]
Heather Hach
And you get to see her clothes, that.
- [44:35]
Matt Koplik
It's the white skirt with a black.
- [44:37]
Heather Hach
Top that she has green and the. You want to hear my Grace Kelly impersonation?
- [44:42]
Matt Koplik
Please do.
- [44:43]
Heather Hach
Okay. I'd say she's doing a lady's most difficult job, juggling wolves. That's very accurate. Well, she's from Philadelphia. She had, like. Her accent was just totally made up.
- [44:58]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I. So my Jimmy Stewart impression, I can only do it if I start with Don Knotts and then lower my voice. That makes sense. Yeah. So let me find. Yeah. How do I get. Let me find the IMDb page for rear Window so I can find myself a nice line of Jimmy's.
- [45:16]
Heather Hach
Is this the same Lisa Fremont who never wears the same dress twice?
- [45:22]
Matt Koplik
Twice. Oh, wait, wait. I'm gonna find. I'm gonna find. I'm gonna find it. Okay, we have. Okay. Oh, sweetie, you are. You have a great talent for creating difficult situations. Okay, so I have to start with my Don Knotts, which is just Family Guy. These are way too many ostriches. The brochure didn't say there'd be nearly this many ostriches. This is a terrible vacation. And then you get a little bit lower, and now you say, oh, sweetie, you are. You have a great talent for creating difficult situations.
- [45:53]
Heather Hach
That's good.
- [45:54]
Matt Koplik
Thank you.
- [45:55]
Heather Hach
It's true. It's done that slower.
- [45:57]
Matt Koplik
It is done, not slower. It's not as good as your Grace Kelly, but I also have been a little out of practice. But that's always. That's my.
- [46:02]
Heather Hach
No, that was good. Thank you. Good. Thank you, Jimmy Stewart. I mean, I have a dog named Zuzu because she was born on Christmas Eve, and I watched It's Wonderful Life every year.
- [46:15]
Matt Koplik
It's a Wonderful Life before my dad went off his antidepressants talking about that movie. Was one of the few things that can make him cry. Now everything makes him cry. But I remember being a teenager, and he's telling me about the movie, and he's talking about the last scene. He starts to cry, and I was like, this is a situation I haven't seen before. Daddy is crying over a movie. Over a movie. Who would ever do that?
- [46:42]
Heather Hach
Over a.
- [46:42]
Matt Koplik
What movies can you see, no matter how many times they still make you cry?
- [46:45]
Heather Hach
That one.
- [46:46]
Matt Koplik
That one.
- [46:47]
Heather Hach
Terms of Endearment, Cinema Paradiso. There's so many things that make me cry. I mean, it's E.T.
- [46:55]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah. E.T. might be one of the only movies for me that is primarily a cast of children that I actually love, because I don't love child actors very much.
- [47:08]
Heather Hach
No, they're. Because they're actually kids. There's, like a sadness to them.
- [47:13]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And a sadness in Mexico.
- [47:16]
Heather Hach
And with the. You know, there's like. There's an earnestness to it.
- [47:20]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Well. And because they're not just being cutesy.
- [47:23]
Heather Hach
No.
- [47:23]
Matt Koplik
You know, kids can be adorable, but there's also a messiness to them. I don't know. I think you and I both just like the mess. That's what. That's what gets us. Yeah. We like the mess. We like it when Shirley MacLaine yells at the hospital staff to give her daughter the shot, as well she should.
- [47:39]
Heather Hach
Oh, my God. I mean, that movie. I could quote it all day long. It's perfect.
- [47:45]
Matt Koplik
It is a phenomenal film.
- [47:47]
Heather Hach
Have you read Yellowface?
- [47:50]
Matt Koplik
I have not.
- [47:51]
Heather Hach
It is so good. It is such great. There's a lot of elements in this book that's. In my book a little bit about obsession and wanting someone else's life. And it's. It's unlike. It's wild. It's great. That's all I'm gonna say.
- [48:14]
Matt Koplik
As a writer, you talk about being inspired by reading and. And. And whatnot. Is there. Do you get more inspired by something that you think is so fantastic that makes you want to write? Or do you get inspired when you see something that maybe is less than and gives you maybe confidence? Like, oh, I can. I can. I can improve on this. Let me. Let me get to the. To the computer.
- [48:36]
Heather Hach
Both.
- [48:36]
Matt Koplik
Both.
- [48:37]
Heather Hach
And sometimes things can be so good that it's just intimidating and it's like, give up now. You know, there's several projects that I feel that way about, and that's. Okay. That's phenomenal. That's. May that always be the case.
- [48:51]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [48:53]
Heather Hach
That are transcendent, you know, but there's Few and far between.
- [48:57]
Matt Koplik
That's how I feel about the second season of Fleabag. I have made it a point that I can't watch that unless I have finished something, because every time I watch it, I can't write. And I love the first season. The first season is great, but the second season for me was on a level. I'm like, I gotta walk away.
- [49:15]
Heather Hach
With the priest.
- [49:16]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yes. Yes. With the priest.
- [49:18]
Heather Hach
Yeah. That was. Yeah. I will say that her work, that. That to me felt like, oh, how can I. It's so good that it's. It's stupid.
- [49:29]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. But she's somebody who doesn't. She writes all the time, but she doesn't, you know, produce scripts every other month. She. She really takes her time and perfects, which is, I think, another thing to think about as we talk about, you know, art and creative process and comparing and contrasting. Someone makes something that's so amazing. And we. Into our minds, because we're seeing it complete fully in front of us, we go, well, clearly this came down to you from on high. And it's. And just perfectly came to your. Out of your pen. It's like, no, she spent a very long time. And, you know, I've listened to interviews with her, and she talks about, like, ideas that came from the director and writers and. And all that stuff. Was there ever. Was there something in Legally Blonde when you guys were in rehearsal that maybe a suggestion came in that made its way into the script that you hadn't thought of?
- [50:17]
Heather Hach
Like, from an outside source kind of thing.
- [50:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, like from an actor or something like that.
- [50:23]
Heather Hach
Oh, there was so many. I mean, you know, Broadway is such cross pollinization.
- [50:28]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And Christian is such a notorious improviser. He's so good at coming up with things on the fly.
- [50:35]
Heather Hach
Yeah. What did he. It was. It kind of. It was. He's so good. I remember I was trying to get a line for the during ship on my shoulder, but he was drinking the Red Bull. He's like, what is this? My second, my third? I don't know. But I like it the way he did it. Just like, out of the. It was just like. And I'm, like, struggling, you know, and, you know, his line just immediately went in for the show.
- [51:01]
Matt Koplik
It's wonderful. I also. I remember that scene. That's the. The chip on my shoulder sequence. It's such a. So don't hold me to this, because it's been over a year, maybe even two years since I did the episode. But in my memory, we talked a lot about the musical sequencing in Legally Blonde, how you guys. And I think because of your experience as a screenwriter, being unafraid of the montage sequence, which is.
- [51:27]
Heather Hach
It was just. We needed to show the sequence of passive time.
- [51:31]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. But we have that. We have what you want. And I mean, other moments where it's just like, you know, things. A lot of things happening in one number. But I remember thinking it was so clever. And a great, surprising turning point of Ellen Emmett realizing that while Elle is progressing with her studies, the one thing that's actually holding her back is the desire to impress Warner. And again, your writing being so humane. It's not that Warner comes in intentionally trying to fuck with Elle's head.
- [52:06]
Heather Hach
He's.
- [52:06]
Matt Koplik
He's living his life. And we see how that affects Elle. And it's this sort of last thing. She needs to kind of let go and really go for the jugular. And it's a great turning point. Yeah. Brava, Heather. Well done. I know you were waiting 16 years for my approval.
- [52:24]
Heather Hach
And here, finally, thank God, here it is.
- [52:26]
Matt Koplik
Finally. Ben Brantley found dead.
- [52:32]
Heather Hach
Such a vulgar person, as you can see.
- [52:34]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, you're. Listen, I. For my listeners who know that I love to have a potty mouth. I told Heather before we recorded she could curse as much as she wanted.
- [52:41]
Heather Hach
And I. I threw a.
- [52:44]
Matt Koplik
You threw in there. But in case Ms. Brantley wants to know, she. She could have been as vulgar as she wanted to be. And she stayed eloquent and classy. And I am living in the gutter. So when. So, like, when you're out of town in San Francisco. San Francisco, like, you know, it's so hard to know really what it is that you have for so long in theater. Right. Because, you know, you're collaborating, you're working, and you can trust your gut and your taste, but after a while, you're sort of so in the forest, and you've lived with it for so long, the things that you once thought were brilliant now seem awful. Things that you know you're convinced are brilliant now might bomb. Putting it on stage for the first time in front of an audience in San Francisco. Obviously you have all the nerves, but can you recall watching that first performance and. And did you know that it was going to work at some point during that show? Was there a moment when you're like, I think this is going to be okay?
- [53:44]
Heather Hach
The moment I really felt okay. Like, here's the sign, you know, that I've been looking for. This was actually New York when there was a family who came in the dad did not want to be there. And they went to a matinee, and he was like, oh, you know, Legally Blonde. And I just kept my eye on him the whole show. And I could see him getting won over in the first act and by the, you know, so much better. He was like, on his feet, like, this is so great. And I was like, if we can win over a guy like that, you know.
- [54:22]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, absolutely.
- [54:23]
Heather Hach
It's a really exciting moment. And we were pretty locked, you know, we didn't change massive amounts. There was one version of positive that.
- [54:32]
Matt Koplik
Love and more. Yeah.
- [54:34]
Heather Hach
Love and war that came and went, but we were really pretty dialed in, you know, so mostly.
- [54:40]
Matt Koplik
Mostly trimming, it seems like, between different.
- [54:43]
Heather Hach
Yeah. And I think Jerry's just such a master at pacing. I mean, he is just master of strapping yourself in to the car and you are off to the races.
- [54:54]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, that was. That was a show that constantly moved, which it needed to, considering how not.
- [54:59]
Heather Hach
In a breathless, like, anxious way, in a seamless way that are, like, frenetic.
- [55:05]
Matt Koplik
And, like, something like Legally Blonde. And I think a lot of people, so maybe didn't realize at the time how good we had it with that show, not to cast Shade too much on things of the last couple of years. Heather, we're not those people, but we are. I am a little bit. I get very angry when I go see a show, a musical, let's just call like it, as a musical, that is aiming for fun. And I find it to be poorly structured, poorly written, no integrity of character or anything like that. And people go, well, it's just trying to be a good time. And I'm like, so is Barbie. So is Legally Blonde. That didn't stop them from having.
- [55:41]
Heather Hach
That doesn't. Yeah, actually.
- [55:44]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I think the wonderful magic trick that musicals in particular can really give is giving you entertainment with some meat hidden in there that you can chew on afterwards. Something to talk about and think about after you've had this wonderful euphoric feeling. And there's a. There is a lot of that in Legally Blonde, and I think it's taken a lot of people some time to catch up to that, but they do know this now. Speaking of which, I don't know if this is something you can speak on, but do you know if maybe any plans for us to experience that show yet again in the city?
- [56:19]
Heather Hach
There's, like, talk. I mean, I think the time is really right. The success of Barbie and just kind of her parallel twin with Elle, you know, but there's nothing official okay.
- [56:36]
Matt Koplik
Is there anything in your work with that show that you would maybe like to get another crack at that you haven't?
- [56:42]
Heather Hach
Yeah, we've been updating the script and the music throughout. We just turned it into mdi mti. You know, like, a lot of the references, you know, change. And. And we did have. There was a Kardashian. There was a reference to a Kardashian. And I just. I just think those. I wanted to take Kardashian out of.
- [57:06]
Matt Koplik
It because I think. I think that was wise. Would you like to write for the stage again? Is that something that is.
- [57:14]
Heather Hach
Yeah. I was going to work on Shock to. That was a. I think it's all for the best, that it should have been the three of them. And that was. You know.
- [57:23]
Matt Koplik
Is there a property you like to adapt or do you have an idea for a musical in the future you would like to do?
- [57:29]
Heather Hach
There's a book called Summer at Tiffany that I just adore. That is. It's about a true story in the 40s, so be a period piece. I would want to confuse it a little bit with the Notebook. Um, but it's about how the first. During World War II, it was the first time they allowed women to work on the floor at Tiffany. And they had these girls who were. I think they were Kappas at ar, at. At Iowa who went for a summer in New York, and they were to the floor of Tiffany's to, like, deliver the jewelry, and they had this, like, epic, you know, romantic New York summer.
- [58:11]
Matt Koplik
I love that. Have you ever seen the movie Down With Love with Renee Zellweger and Ewan McGregor?
- [58:16]
Heather Hach
I love that movie. Yeah. That has not gotten the love that it should have gotten.
- [58:22]
Matt Koplik
It really has not. And I. Part of me wants. Part of me wants to make it into a musical. It is very much an homage to a genre of film, but I think you can turn that into an homage to a genre of musical from the 60s as well, while kind of keeping the same storyline. And I think it's such a smart, retro look back on gender politics while still being fun. It's. Yeah. And also, I mean, I'm a big RiRi fan. I love me some Renee.
- [58:55]
Heather Hach
Great. Have you heard anything of anyone doing.
- [58:58]
Matt Koplik
I don't think enough people know it. I think it's us.
- [59:01]
Heather Hach
Loved it when it came out. You and McGregor.
- [59:03]
Matt Koplik
That's a handful of gays, Heather. That's it.
- [59:05]
Heather Hach
Oh, my God. It's such a good movie. And I just love. I mean, I love Doris Day and Rock Hudson. I Love those.
- [59:12]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [59:13]
Heather Hach
Talk and pajama game and all that.
- [59:15]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [59:15]
Heather Hach
World.
- [59:16]
Matt Koplik
Well, because it's sexy and smart and. And clever with innuendo. Because. Because of the time period, there was only so much they could say or do, and it was.
- [59:26]
Heather Hach
Yeah, it's just a fascinating moment, you know, where it was all about sex, yet not at all.
- [59:37]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, well, because it was more about sort of the titillation of the sex you could have and the power that comes from it, rather than just like, hourly going about it. And, I mean, comedies have gone down this different route now that I don't love. I mean, I read all the time about, like, oh, the Hollywood comedy is dead. It's not dead. We're just sort of in a weird spot with it. And I think we need to look further back than just the Judd Apatow era of. Of comedies and look back on times when we were a little more clever with sexuality and. And not just flaunting my terrible vocabulary and language.
- [60:18]
Heather Hach
Yeah, well, also, comedies just don't translate internationally.
- [60:23]
Matt Koplik
That's true.
- [60:24]
Heather Hach
They're very specific. Like Will Ferrell just doesn't translate to a Chinese audience. And so that's why they're not putting any money into comedy.
- [60:35]
Matt Koplik
In terms of writing now, do you find yourself. Do you. Are you limiting yourself to any kind of medium, or are you just sort of going wherever the wind takes you? Film, theater, literature?
- [60:49]
Heather Hach
You want me to pitch you my new book? I'm writing. I'm halfway done.
- [60:52]
Matt Koplik
Yes, please.
- [60:53]
Heather Hach
Okay. Because it's got. It's also got musical component in it, as does do most of mine. This is a more comedy. This is a little bit more than. Than trouble with drowning. It's called Relationship Goals, and it's kind of loosely based on my parents, who are like, the happiest married couple on the planet Earth. And we always joke that they've, like, their perfect marriage has emotionally damaged us as kids. And anyway, so it's a couple, and they go to Kona Village in Hawaii to celebrate their 30th wedding anniversary, to renew all the vows. And they bring their kids and their grandchildren, and at the resort, they meet the happiest couple on planet Earth and think Martin Short and Jennifer Kulage, and they're a songwriting married team.
- [61:45]
Matt Koplik
Oh, I love that.
- [61:47]
Heather Hach
And so everybody wants to, like, know their secret. And, like, it just kind of has. It's this Rorschach test of, you know, where are you at? And brings out all these kind of sibling rivalries. And it's. It's fun. It's really fun.
- [62:01]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, that sounds fun. I'm very excited to hear that. So now with that in mind, let us go back to the professional route and remind our listeners, Heather, the name of your book when it comes out and where they can find is called.
- [62:16]
Heather Hach
The Trouble with Drowning by Heather Hawk. Like Bach with an H, H, A C, H. And it comes out October 17th and you can buy it at bookstores, Barnes and Noble, Amazon. You can pre order it now if you'd like. Anywhere there's books there should. It should be there.
- [62:37]
Matt Koplik
That's perfect. Where can people find you if you want them to find you?
- [62:42]
Heather Hach
You. You can follow me on Instagram. I'm Heather Hawk. H A C H. And then my married last name is Hearn. H E A R N E. So I'm literally triple H. I'm. I'm actually like a pro wrestler. Heather Hawk Hearn.
- [62:58]
Matt Koplik
I love that. That is a very intimidating. Those are very intimidating initials.
- [63:04]
Heather Hach
A lot of H's.
- [63:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. If you want to follow me, everyone, I am on Instagram at Matt Koplik. Usual spelling. If you like the podcast, you can give us a nice five star rating. A little review. We did get one. In the interim between the the Big Move and this episode, I will give it a quick little shout out. Now. It's a little too short to do our usual music, but five stars. Ha ha ha ha ha. Everyone should listen to this podcast. This podcast is hilarious. Literally gets me through the doldrums of modern life. Thanks for making it with three exclamation points. You're very welcome, Heather. We close out every episode in post with a nice Broadway diva to play us out as we. As we fade out of our episodes. Do you have a Broadway diva you'd like to play us out today?
- [63:51]
Heather Hach
A song?
- [63:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. So when, when we finish recording, I'm gonna insert audio of a Broadway diva singing the Broadway diva of your choice. So you could, you could be specific about a certain actress singing a certain song. As long as that audio is available.
- [64:05]
Heather Hach
Somewhere that's Green. I love that song.
- [64:07]
Matt Koplik
Do you want Ellen Green? Ellen Green. I love that choice. I love that choice. Ellen Green is a. She's an ally to my personhood.
- [64:16]
Heather Hach
I wanted that song to be sung at my wedding, but it didn't happen.
- [64:21]
Matt Koplik
That's a.
- [64:21]
Heather Hach
Because I had a really small wedding and whatever, but that's what I wanted my wedding song to be is Somewhere that's Green.
- [64:26]
Matt Koplik
Howard Ashman is one of three people I would invite to my dinner party that you know that question of like, what Three celebrities would you invite? He's one of my three.
- [64:32]
Heather Hach
Such a hard question. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
- [64:35]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Do you know who you would have or do you have one in particular? That's always a constant.
- [64:42]
Heather Hach
I would want to have fun. So I probably get someone really? Like, it's too hard. I mean, there's so many people I'd love. I would love to get wise like Maya Angelou. I'm obsessed with Tina fa, maybe.
- [65:03]
Matt Koplik
That's already a really good table.
- [65:05]
Heather Hach
Yeah, that's a really good Dolly Parton. Ah, that's my table.
- [65:10]
Matt Koplik
Can I be your server? Okay, great. I'll be your server and I'll serve you. I'll also serve you guys all the drinks. That's like a. That's, that's a brunch table. I would happily wait on that.
- [65:19]
Heather Hach
That's kind of killer. That would be great.
- [65:21]
Matt Koplik
Heather, thank you so much.
- [65:24]
Heather Hach
This was such a delight. Really.
- [65:25]
Matt Koplik
Such a delight. Once again, guys, you can pre order the Trouble With Drowning anywhere books are available. It comes out in October. And in the meanwhile, stay tuned for our next series. Oh, yes, I've told you guys I was going to announce what it was. The next series is called Drumroll, please. Problematic, but it's in quotation marks with a question mark at the end of it. And it is exploring shows that have gone on to get some kind of backlash from the theater community and at one point or another was deemed problematic. And me and a guest. Yeah, me and a guest. Every episode will explore one of these shows and figure out if it really deserves the label or not. We look forward to doing it. There are some shows we already have locked and loaded, others we're figuring out. But yeah, that's it for now. That should be starting up in a few weeks. Thank you for your patience, everybody. And until then, see you next time. Here's Ellen Green. Take us away, Ellen.
- [66:30]
Heather Hach
On a big, enormous 12 inch screen. His December bride, his father, he knows best.