THE INHERITANCE w/ Robbie Rozelle - Broadway Breakdown

Transcript

A (0:00)

Sa foreign.

B (0:30)

Hello all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the deal. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. This series is called Problematic Question Mark. And it is covering shows that you're mad at and their possible redemption. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And with me today is a friend of the pod fag of the pod father, the pod daddy, uncle of the pod zaddy zaddy. Please welcome back Robbie Rizzel.

A (1:02)

Hi, friends.

B (1:03)

Hi, friends. This has been a journey, y', all, just so you know. Let me set the scene for you, please. It was last week. It sure was, Robbie. First of all, Robbie made his way to reread and re listen to this journey of a play and then watch a movie version of the novel of which the play is inspired by, and then trucked his way over to my home. We get everything set up, and the moment we hit record, our recorder just plops. Dead. Fully dead.

A (1:33)

Just died.

B (1:33)

Yeah.

A (1:34)

I've killed things before.

B (1:36)

Well, usually careers. Careers, musical numbers, musical optimism.

A (1:40)

Catch me at 54 below if you can.

B (1:44)

But we decided, okay, we'll reconvene. And Robbie generously lent his office space and these beautiful mics. So I think it'll be a good. Be a fun one. But, you know, just like every gay man's journey, there were some bumps, but we persevered.

A (1:59)

You know, sometimes you just have to.

B (2:01)

Take a deep breath and let it all happen.

A (2:04)

Yeah.

B (2:04)

There you go. Wow, Robbie. What motherfucking fucker are we talking about today?

A (2:10)

We are talking about the inheritance, a gay fantasia on Howards End themes.

B (2:15)

On Howards End themes written by Matthew Lopez. How did the Inheritance come into your chat?

Summary

Broadway Breakdown: "THE INHERITANCE w/ Robbie Rozelle" (March 14, 2024)

Main Theme

This episode of Broadway Breakdown dives deep into Matthew Lopez’s epic, two-part play The Inheritance, exploring its inspirations, its cultural impact, and the controversial discussions it sparked about representation, storytelling, and “problematic” art in contemporary theatre. Host Matt Koplik and guest Robbie Rozelle offer an opinionated, hilarious, and passionate unpacking of the show’s merits and flaws, with side journeys through Broadway history and queer culture.

Episode Breakdown

1. Setting the Stage: Technical Difficulties & Friendship

[00:30 - 02:04]

Matt recounts the disastrous first attempt at recording the episode (recorder died), leading to jokes about killed careers and gratitude for Robbie’s mics.
The hosts set a playful, candid tone, embracing the “bumps” of gay life and podcasting.
“Just like every gay man's journey, there were some bumps, but we persevered.” — Matt (01:44)

2. The Inheritance: Initial Impressions & Hype

[02:10 - 06:22]

The Inheritance is introduced as “a gay fantasia on Howards End themes,” written by Matthew Lopez.
Robbie recalls being invited to see the Broadway run and being moved to tears, but notes the impracticality of repeat viewings due to length and heaviness.
Matt reflects on hearing about the play’s UK success and skepticism surrounding transatlantic hype: “Hype is really a dangerous knife's edge. Because you need it to get momentum going. But if it goes too big, nothing can live up to it.” — Matt (06:09)
Discussion about high-profile shows that lived up to (or didn’t live up to) hype, including Hamilton and Hairspray.

3. "Problematic" in Context

[10:45 - 14:44]

The hosts unpack the “problematic” label and how it's often misapplied to shows dealing with uncomfortable material.
Matt: “People use the word, I don't want to say stupidly, but stupidly... Rather than sit in the discomfort and go, ‘Oh, maybe this show wants me to feel all these kinds of ways,’ they go, 'Well, no, it's problematic.'” (11:47)
Nuance, complexity, and the value of flawed characters in theatre and family films is passionately defended.

4. The Plot: The Inheritance Explained

[16:27 - 34:05]

Robbie and Matt give a detailed breakdown of The Inheritance plot, emphasizing its roots in E.M. Forster’s Howards End and the sprawling web of characters and relationships.
Main characters: Toby Darling (novelist/playwright), his boyfriend Eric, older couple Walter and Henry Wilcox, wealthy ingénue Adam, and rent boy Leo.
The inheritance of a rural house becomes symbolic of AIDS-era memory, loss, and queer community (21:10–23:24).
“This thing has more names in it than I did in my 20s.” — Robbie (16:53)
The plot’s convolutions are humorously dissected, including ensemble narration, overlapping storytelling, and the emotional high point (the “ghosts” scene at the end of Part One).

5. AIDS Legacy, Representation & Criticism

[34:13 - 52:01]

Robbie shares his emotional connection as someone who lived through the AIDS crisis: “I do jokes. You’re a vulnerable person sometimes.” — Robbie (32:17)
Both recall the evolution of queer representation onstage and onscreen: from celebrating any visibility (even in flawed works), to current expectations that every film/play must be universally representative.
Main criticism of The Inheritance: focus on wealthy, mostly white, gay men. They contextualize this in both Forster’s original and Lopez’s adaptation.
Critique of calls for BIPOC/queer creators to only tell “their own stories,” with Matt and Robbie agreeing on the importance of artistic freedom: “Why should I only write about being Latin? Like, is that all that matters to you?” — Matt on Lopez’s critics (50:56)
On casting controversies: Both support the idea that sexuality and gender are more fluid for casting than race, with examples drawn from Broadway history. (53:07–55:37)

6. Play Structure, Length, and Thematic Focus

[56:25 - 83:41]

Discussion of character arcs, especially Toby’s self-destruction and Eric’s steady decency.
Critique of the play’s sprawling structure and “overwritten” tendencies—“seven hours long. Doesn’t need to be.” — Robbie (79:35)
Matt notes, “I think it’s incredibly overwritten. There’s a lot of fat in this play.” (79:33)
Examination of E.M. Forster as both narrator and character, and the ethics/limitations of cross-era storytelling. (83:46–85:17)
Side-by-side with Howards End’s critique of privilege and property.

7. Sex and Darkness in The Inheritance

[67:26 - 73:53]

The hosts discuss the play’s portrayal of gay sex: two major explicit scenes both involve violence or trauma, never “positive” sexuality.
“Every time sex is shown in this play, it is a weapon... it almost reads, gay sex is bad. Gay sex will kill you.” — Robbie (71:44)
They agree that the play’s sexual politics, while perhaps realistic for the era/themes, can feel one-dimensional and problematic in their own right.

8. The Production: Design, Direction, and Reception

[93:10 - 104:31]

Praise for Stephen Daldry's direction and Bob Crowley’s sets—minimalist, symbolic, with stunning use of the table stage and the eventual arrival of the dollhouse and tree.
“Gorgeous... deceptively simple... most of the cast was in white, various shades of beige.” — Robbie (93:33)
The shift in advertising as the show struggled to catch on, and how Broadway’s marketing often leans into “importance.”
Comparisons to other plays that center trauma and “event” theatre.

9. Awards, Legacy, and Enduring Questions

[104:31 - 116:09]

Discussion of The Inheritance’s Tony wins (and whether it would have triumphed in a full non-pandemic season).
Comparison to other multi-part, epic plays (Angels in America, Harry Potter), and how audience expectations have changed in the streaming era.
The likelihood (or unlikelihood) of major revivals or wider cultural footprint, considering its complexity and length.

10. Earnestness, Popularity, and The Future of Queer Theatre

[77:17 - 78:48]

Analysis of why deeply earnest works often face backlash from within the community—audiences seem to crave irony or at least some self-awareness.
“A lot of people want a little bit of sarcasm. They can't handle full-throated honesty or passion.” — Matt (78:11)
Exploration of “main character syndrome” and the pressure on every queer play to be universally relatable.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On the confusion of the play’s characters and plot:
- “Does anybody have, like, some red yarn?” — Robbie (26:01)
- “We need to do what Charlie does in It’s Always Sunny, with his homeland map.” — Matt (26:04)
On AIDS, trauma, and personal emotion:
- “All of my gay movies, until trick, were just AIDS. It was AIDS all the time... as if we fixed it, which we haven’t.” — Robbie (44:05)
- “It was such a gut punch to me [the end of Part One].” — Robbie (32:14)
On gay representation and artistic boundaries:
- “Now every queer movie... has to be everyone’s story. And if it’s not your story... the movie is bad.” — Matt (16:03)
On privilege of writing outside your own identity:
- "Why should I only write about being Latin? ... Isn't that achievement, like, why must that be erased because I wrote white characters?” — Matt paraphrasing Lopez (50:56)
On theater’s embrace of trauma as prestige:
- “I mentioned this already, but I don't know a single Broadway show that ever advertised with ‘We are important, see us because we’re important’ and have it work out.” — Matt (100:26)
On The Inheritance’s divisiveness among gay audiences:
- "The backlash... came solely from the gay community... a case of watching it and going, I hate this. Burn it with fire because it's too close to home.” — Matt (77:34)
On the enduring power of kindness:
- “I value kindness and gentleness and a loving character more than a Toby Darling... but I don't think that makes you extraordinary. I think that makes you a good human.” — Robbie (137:49)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

[16:27–34:05] Plot overview and core characters
[30:59–32:17] End of Part One’s emotional climax and its personal impact
[50:56] Discussion of Lopez’s response to identity-based criticism
[67:26–73:53] Sex as trauma in the play: thematic analysis
[93:10–104:31] The Broadway production: design, staging, and reception
[104:31–116:09] The Tony Awards, legacy, and revival prospects

Final Thoughts

The Inheritance is praised for its ambition, heartfelt moments, and moments of genuine power, but critiqued for its “overwritten” nature, narrow focus, and complicated relationship to sex and representation.
Neither Matt nor Robbie ultimately finds the play “problematic” in the cultural sense, despite acknowledging its flaws. Instead, they see it as a complex, ambitious work that reflects both progress and persistent challenges in queer storytelling on Broadway.
The episode ends with the hosts humorously reflecting on their own tangents, a nod to the sometimes sprawling nature of theatre discourse—and of The Inheritance itself.

“If we showed that there was an audience for [queer stories], they would make more. And hopefully better.” — Robbie (15:48)

“There are no gay men my age. Not nearly enough.” — Henry Wilcox, in The Inheritance (88:12)

For Next Week

Stay tuned for possible Tony talk or the next “problematic” Broadway epic. Until then, keep engaging—and maybe bring a red.