Broadway Breakdown - "[title of show]" w/ Tyler Joseph Ellis

Podcast Host: Matt Koplik
Guest: Tyler Joseph Ellis
Date: July 6, 2023

Episode Overview

In this vibrant episode, host Matt Koplik welcomes theater creator and social media personality Tyler Joseph Ellis to discuss [title of show], the cult hit meta-musical by Hunter Bell and Jeff Bowen. This conversation is part of "The Big Move" series, focusing on musicals that had successful Off-Broadway runs before transferring to Broadway. Matt and Tyler unpack the genesis, structure, humor, and emotional resonance of [title of show], its impact on their own creative journeys, and its enduring message for artists.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Essence and Impact of [title of show]

• Meta-Musical Origins

  • [title of show] is about Hunter Bell and Jeff Bowen writing a musical about writing a musical. It chronicles their creative process, with their real-life friends Susan Blackwell and Heidi Blickenstaff joining as themselves to tell the story of the show's journey from an idea to Off-Broadway glory, and then to Broadway ([04:24]).

    “It‘s about two guys writing a musical about two guys writing musical about two guys writing a musical.” - Tyler ([04:24])

  • It’s often described as a “musical that chronicles its own inception or like a snake eating its own tail” ([06:05]).

• The ‘title of show’ Show and Social Media Savvy

  • In the gap between Off-Broadway and Broadway, the creators launched the title of show show, a homemade internet series that kept their small but dedicated fanbase engaged and innovatively built buzz ([06:29]).

    “...No one was doing Internet content alongside, like on their own, producing it themselves alongside their own show...” – Tyler ([06:29])

• Personal Stories: How the Show Shaped the Hosts

  • Tyler’s own journey: Brought the show to his high school, produced and starred in it, and was shocked to have creator Hunter Bell show up to their production ([11:16]-[12:24]). He credits [title of show] and its creators with inspiring his own creative path and online presence.
  • Matt similarly recounts discovering the show in high school, bonding with friends over it, and even creating a web series in its style before seeing it on Broadway ([13:43]-[15:28]).

Friendship and Marginalized Voices

• Healthy Depictions of Gay Men & Straight Women Friendships

  • The relationships in [title of show] are compared to those in other works but noted for their genuine, mutual, and non-condescending quality ([16:12]-[17:46]).

    “...this is such a healthy friendship. It’s pure love and no condescension, anyway.” – Matt ([16:51])

• Contextualizing Queer Representation

  • The hosts critique dated TV portrayals of gay men as accessories, crediting [title of show] as a contrast for its authenticity ([17:47]-[18:30]).

The Creative Process, Self-Doubt, and “Die Vampire, Die!”

• Defeating 'Vampires' of Self-Doubt

  • Susan Blackwell’s showstopper "Die, Vampire, Die!" is dissected for its honest yet comedic take on creative insecurity ([41:45]-[44:33]):

    “...if you look at your self-doubt... as a physical form, [like] a vampire, you can start defeating it; like you can kill a vampire, but when it’s this amorphous thing... that’s when it gets paralyzing.” – Tyler ([43:56])

  • The song’s structure—using humor to disarm and then hitting hard with genuine vulnerability—epitomizes the show's voice.

• The “Nine People’s Favorite Thing” Mantra

  • The show’s central philosophy: It’s better to be “nine people's favorite thing than a hundred people's ninth favorite thing.” This has been adopted by many as a mantra but is discussed in terms of how far to take it; critical feedback is still important ([39:14]-[40:23]).

    “There’s a difference between ego and passion.” – Matt ([40:13])

The Joy (and Pain) of Niche and Broadway Community

• Niche Theater as a Home Base

  • Both hosts relate to the show’s celebration of Broadway and deep-cut theater references (“Henry Sweet Henry jokes and Doll’s Life”) ([35:04]).
  • [title of show] is praised for balancing meta-humor, deep sincerity, and a loving but self-aware look at the Broadway ecosystem.

• Handling Commercial Pressure and Collaboration

  • The show’s Act 2 drama—about potential success changing the core of the project and creators—is described as grounded and empathetic ([81:29]-[83:32]):

    “He begins to stray from what the four of them set out to do in search of, you know, commercial success... It always makes sense. You’re never like, ‘Hunter is such a dick.’” – Tyler ([81:56])

• The Beauty of Limitations

  • The minimalist staging and resource constraints of the original production are celebrated as fostering ingenuity (the show’s inventive, precise, “pedestrian meets showbiz” choreography) ([57:45]-[60:37]).

    “With limitation comes creativity, and oh, my God, did they have limits.” – Tyler ([60:37])

Favorite Songs and Standout Numbers

• Tyler’s top picks:
  • “Nine People’s Favorite Thing” for its energy and guiding philosophy ([36:11])
  • "Die, Vampire, Die!" as the comedic and emotional center ([36:59])
  • “Way Back to Then” for its bittersweet, honest look at why we create art ([73:30]-[78:07])
• “Part of It All” is highlighted as especially resonant for anyone dreaming of being part of the Broadway community ([70:40]-[71:17]).

Notable Inside Jokes, Fourth-Wall Breaks & Theater Lore

• The inside-Baseball meta-references (e.g., drag queen names, failed musicals, endless Sondheim and Into the Woods bits) are both a blessing and a barrier—the show “lets the audience into the club,” but can feel exclusive, a point Matt and Tyler underscore as both a feature and the source of some early Broadway critics’ backlash ([64:31]-[66:24]).
• Projections and rapid-fire references are celebrated: “Monkeys and Playbills” and cameo voice-mails from Broadway greats (Sutton Foster, Emily Skinner, Patti LuPone, Christine Ebersole, etc.) are dissected ([84:54]-[87:51]).

The Show’s Ongoing Legacy

• The original cast (Hunter, Jeff, Heidi, Susan, director Michael Berresse, and pianist Larry Pressgrove) are still friends and sometimes collaborate.
• Tyler calls for a future concert, reunion, or reworking of the show starring a new cast while remaining meta about the process ([54:28]-[64:13]).
• Both hosts agree the show is an inspiring blueprint for DIY creative success in the era of social media ([51:00]-[52:00]).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Creative Process:

  “Everything I do has a little bit title of show in it...It wasn’t super foreign to me to think that I could make sketches and funny videos and put them on the Internet—because title of Show taught me, like, how to do that.” – Tyler ([09:41])

• On Self-Doubt and Artistic Courage:

  “Just because it’s in your head doesn’t mean it’s true.” – Matt ([44:27])

• On Niche Art:

  “This show isn’t really a show because it’s just four people who make each other laugh. I’m like, but that’s when niche is right.” – Matt ([65:18])

• On Friendship and Collaboration:

  “Not only do the four of them, like, understand each other on such a friendship level, but they were able to collaborate and create two really great musicals...that’s lightning in a bottle to me. It is so special.” – Tyler ([115:34])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:22 – Introduction to “The Big Move” series
• 04:24 – What is [title of show]? The meta premise
• 11:16 – Tyler’s journey with the show, bringing it to high school, meeting the creators
• 13:43 – Matt’s high school experience, web series, seeing the show on Broadway
• 16:12 – Discussion on friendship dynamics and representation
• 39:14 – The meaning and limits of “Nine People’s Favorite Thing”
• 41:45 – “Die, Vampire, Die!” dissected
• 57:45 – Staging, choreography, minimalism, and creative constraints
• 73:30 – Favorite moments: “Way Back to Then” and the finale
• 104:09 – How the show handles obscure references and meta-humor
• 112:25 – The impact on the original cast’s careers
• 125:09 – On the show’s inspirational, contagious creativity

Style, Language, and Tone

• The conversation is informal, irreverent, passionate, and peppered with in-jokes, deep cuts, and explicit language—mirroring the meta, self-aware, and affectionate tone of [title of show] itself.
• The hosts shift from sincere analysis to cutting humor seamlessly, reflecting the show’s balance of heart and snark.

Final Thoughts

Matt and Tyler frame [title of show] as an enduring beacon for theater artists and fans: a love letter to creative risk-taking, unapologetic nerdiness, healthy collaboration, and the audacity to believe that “throwing spaghetti at the wall” is a worthy way forward. They credit it as a vital work in their own creative lives and argue for its continued relevance to both established and aspiring theater makers.

End Note:

“This show for everyone who might discover it and not love it—there’s gonna be someone who’s gonna discover it and love it. It’s a bomb in so many ways.” – Matt ([123:32])

For more, follow Tyler on social media (@tylerjosephellis), Matt on Instagram (@mattkoplik), and subscribe to Broadway Breakdown for future deep cuts and candid commentary on the American musical theater canon.

(Closing song: Carol Channing - “Jazz Baby”)