Tony Awards 2026: A Way Too Early Chat w/ Richie Grasso and Jeff Malone

Summary

Broadway Breakdown: "Tony Awards 2026: A Way Too Early Chat w/ Richie Grasso and Jeff Malone"

Host: Matt Koplik
Guests: Richie Grasso & Jeff Malone
Release Date: January 22, 2026

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Overview

In this lively, opinionated, and hilariously candid episode of Broadway Breakdown, host Matt Koplik welcomes back theater buffs Richie Grasso and Jeff Malone for a tradition: the "way too early" Tony Awards predictions. The trio unpacks what's opened so far for the 2025-2026 Broadway season, debates what could make it to nominations (and what might fall through the cracks), highlights overlooked performances and technical categories, and anticipates the unpredictable influx of spring shows. Their insights, zingers, and deep-cut knowledge make this an essential recap and forecasting session for theater lovers craving Tony tea months before the nominations drop.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

On the Timing of Predictions (01:19–02:29)

• The group agrees that early-season shows (June–December) often get forgotten by the time Tony nominations arrive. Richie points out the prestige and risk of going with gut picks before most spring productions open.
• Jeff: “We love to get this shit in, like in January when it’s still so wide open that anything is possible.”

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Best Play: The Slate So Far (03:01–04:59)

• Early eligible contenders: Call Me Izzy, Punch, Little Bear Ridge Road, Liberation.
• Richie is “putting [his] money on Liberation as best Play” (03:59).
• Jeff agrees: “Liberation is an absolute lock for a nomination. It is absolutely the front runner right now.” (04:05)
• British imports Giant and Every Brilliant Thing could shake up the field later.
• Minor picks (Punch, Call Me Izzy) likely to be forgotten except possibly in acting nods.

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Best Play Revival: Rule-Breaking and Crowded Fields (05:00–09:39)

• Current revivals: Art, Waiting for Godot, Oedipus.
• Discussion on Tony rules for what counts as a revival (Bug, Marjorie Prime) vs. original. Consensus is both will be considered revivals.
• Candidates: Oedipus (front-runner, especially with Leslie Manville's performance). Marjorie Prime and Bug are in the conversation.
• Becky Shaw could tip the numbers to five nominees if it ends up as a revival.
• “That is absolutely the most stacked category of the season…well, most packed.” – Jeff (07:31)
• Art makes money, but not artistic waves: “That is their reward.” – Jeff (08:43)
• Generational shift in what makes a play feel “of its time."
  • “Art is such a 90s play. It was such a huge deal in 1998…that really was a pre-9/11 world, wasn’t it?” – Jeff (09:18)

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Best Musical Revival: The Slim Pickings and Money Makers (09:39–14:23)

• Contenders: Ragtime, Chess, with Cats: Jellicoe Ball, Rocky Horror, and Mamma Mia coming.
• Beetlejuice ineligible due to Tony invite rules.
• Titanique will be considered new, not a revival.
• Nomination prediction: Top three likely Cats, Ragtime, plus either Chess or Rocky Horror. Jeff bets: “Unless Rocky Horror really shits the bed…it’s getting in over Chess.” (12:10)
• Cats vs. Ragtime for the win; Ragtime’s backstage politics and design choices may affect its chances:
  • "There may or may not be also some people involved with this Ragtime who are not super well liked in the community... people are kind of looking for any reason to not vote for them." – Jeff (14:01)
• Scenery on Broadway: frustration with bare staging and missed design opportunities in Ragtime revivals:
  • “My biggest thing with this Ragtime revival is this bare stage… Put them center. Different color on the psych behind them. It seems so concert-y to me.” – Matt (15:33)

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Best Musical: The Thin Season and What’s to Come (17:42–20:16)

• Only two open so far: Queen of Versailles, Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York (the latter is the “probable front runner”).
• Four spring newcomers: Beaches, Titanique, Lost Boys, Schmigadoon – wildly different in style and expectations.
• The “thin” season means something could sweep by default:
  • “I feel like this season is a lesson for everything that rushed their way to Broadway the last three years of. Maybe you should have taken that extra year...” – Jeff (19:57)
• Two Strangers is positioned well due to timing and lack of competition.

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Technical Categories: Where Surprises Hide (20:43–29:24)

Sound Design (20:43–23:17)

• Likely tech nominees: Waiting for Godot, Oedipus, Two Strangers, Chess.
• Ragtime noted for some balance issues.
• Queen of Versailles has solid sound design but may not crack the top.

Orchestrations (27:15–29:24)

• Major candidates: Two Strangers, Queen of Versailles, Chess (possible new charts), Jellicoe Ball (noted for future innovation).
• “I didn’t mind the orchestrations for Queen of Versailles… unusually bad for Stephen Schwartz shows. Wicked orchestrations are good.” – Matt (28:31)
• John Clancy’s orchestrations and the upcoming cast recording may boost Versailles’ odds.

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Score & Book: Originals Fighting for Space (29:26–33:51; 59:07–66:54)

• Score: Two Strangers and Queen of Versailles are the only true originals as of January. Others (Schmigadoon, Beaches, Lost Boys) have limiting eligibility or lack early enthusiasm.
• “There are worse scores than Queen of Versailles that got nominated in much more crowded fields.” – Jeff (30:21)
• Book: Two Strangers is likely the default if spring entries don’t impress.
  • “My two biggest issues… are I do think it’s too long… and I don’t buy the romance at the end.” – Jeff (60:46)
  • “If this was last season, the show would not be doing the same thing at all... would have closed by now...” – Jeff (64:27)
• Book and score categories may be "locked" now but will be disrupted by spring arrivals.

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Design & Choreography: The Case for Creativity (35:08–50:15)

Costume Design

• Ragtime’s Linda Cho is the current front-runner; contemporary shows fight for recognition.
• Jellicoe Ball, Rocky Horror, and Schmigadoon are wild cards with inventive and period-influenced design.

Choreography

• Clear favorites haven’t emerged; Jellicoe Ball, Schmigadoon, and Lost Boys likely to dominate once open.
• “If they do it even remotely well, [Lost Boys is] getting in.” – Jeff (39:19)

Lighting & Set Design

• Ragtime’s lighting “held the whole show together.” (47:44)
• Oedipus and Queen of Versailles singled out for impressive design and visual storytelling.

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Acting Categories: Early Locks, Cult Musicals, and Star Turns (53:49–96:12)

Plays:

• Lead Actress: Leslie Manville (Oedipus) is the “only one…absolutely putting money down” as a nomination lock. (89:06)
• Jean Smart (Call Me Izzy) “should be given a Nobel Peace Prize for the herculean effort she did…” but will likely be snubbed. – Jeff (71:40)
• Laurie Metcalf, Carrie Coon, and Susanna Flood are in the mix.
• Supporting Roles: Liberation has multiple contenders (Betsy Aidem, Kayla Davion). June Squibb and Cynthia Nixon in Marjorie Prime could figure depending on category placement.
• Lead Actor: Mark Strong, Oedipus, is highlighted; “all the art men” are potential nominees but spring competition looms.

Musicals:

• Lead Actress: Casey Levy (Ragtime) “in for sure.” Leah Michele in Chess is questioned by Jeff.
• Featured Actress: Nichelle Lewis (Ragtime) in conversation. Watch Jellicoe Ball, Schmigadoon, and Lost Boys for spring featured breakthroughs.
• Featured Actor: Ben Levi Ross (Ragtime) a notable mention, plus Bryce Pinkham (Chess), but field will expand after spring shows.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Passion, Snark & Hot Takes

• On the politics of revivals:
  “There may or may not be also some people involved with this Ragtime who are not super well liked in the community... people are kind of looking for any reason to not vote for them.”
  – Jeff Malone (14:01)

• On bare-bones design:
  “My biggest thing with this Ragtime revival is this bare stage... It seems so concert-y to me.”
  – Matt Koplik (15:33)

• On cult fandoms and hype:
  “That’s the thing that I can’t begrudge the show... when you try to bring up this stuff, the fandom is like, ‘no, it’s perfect, it’s brilliant, and there’s nothing wrong with it.’ And I’m like, okay, then we’re done here.”
  – Jeff Malone (63:53)

• On underwhelming productions:
  "You know what’s not a punch? It’s a swing and a miss."
  – Jeff Malone (90:15)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:29 – Breaking down show eligibility and Tony rules for revivals vs. originals
• 04:59 – Early predictions for Best Play (Liberation as front-runner)
• 09:39 – Musical revivals: arguments for and against Ragtime, Cats, Chess, Rocky Horror, Mamma Mia, and Titanique
• 13:39 – Hot take: Cats as a likely winner over Ragtime
• 15:33–16:35 – Extended critique of Ragtime’s bare stage and design choices
• 17:42–20:16 – Best Musical predictions, and Two Strangers as winter front-runner
• 20:43–23:17 – Technical design categories, where unexpected shows may thrive
• 29:26–30:21 – Score nominations' oddsmakers–Stephen Schwartz’s chances for Queen of Versailles
• 59:07–66:54 – Book of a Musical: Two Strangers’ strengths and weaknesses, the likelihood of being usurped by spring arrivals
• 68:07–70:35 – Directorial categories: Ragtime’s Lear deBessonet not a lock; scrutiny amid production rumors
• 87:43–89:06 – Lead Play Actress: "Leslie Manville right now is the only one that I’m just putting such money down of."
• 96:10–97:36 – Musical leading performances: Casey Levy, Joshua Henry, and question marks for Leah Michele and others

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Tonal Highlights

• Authentic candor: Candid language, plenty of f-bombs, and affectionate roasting characterize the episode.
• Theater insider wisdom: Anecdotes about backstage politics, designers, and Tony rules surface throughout.
• Enthusiasm for underdogs & new work: Frequent reminders to not sleep on shows like Jellicoe Ball, Marjorie Prime, and the outliers.

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Summary Takeaways

• Winter Leaders: Two Strangers, Ragtime, Liberation, and Oedipus are the early “locks” for nominations in various fields.
• Spring Will Change Everything: Nearly all categories are “wait and see” for final predictions due to a glut of promising spring openings.
• Technical & Acting Trophies Up for Grabs: Expect surprises in sound, costume, lighting, choreography, and especially featured acting categories as new productions open.
• Politics and Design Choices Matter: Backstage team reputations, design innovation (or lack thereof), and narrative cohesion will be deciding factors.
• Consensus: Don’t bet the farm yet—by nomination time, the landscape may be unrecognizable.

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Closing Quote

“Do not forget that Jellicoe Ball is coming...that's gonna be the bright shiny toy that everyone looks at.”
— Jeff Malone (98:51)

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Find the Guests

• Matt Koplik: Instagram @MattCopley
• Richie & Jeff: “Half Hour Podcast” on all major podcast platforms & @halfhourpodcast on Instagram

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For More Tony coverage, subscribe to the Substack or join the Discord linked at bwaybreakdown.substack.com.

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Summary by Broadway Breakdown's resident episode wrangler—now you can talk Tonys like you were in the room!

Transcript

[Matt Koplik]

Why not? Think of the prestige. Think of the respect. No, no, no.

[Jeff Malone]

Think of the Tony.

[Matt Koplik]

Tony.

[Richie Grasso]

Tony.

[Matt Koplik]

Tony.

[Jeff Malone]

Tony.

[Matt Koplik]

Tony.

[Jeff Malone]

Hello all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And with me today are friends of the pod. They've been gone for so long, but they've come home at last. You know them from their own podcast, half hour with Jeff and Richie. Please welcome back Richie Grasso and Jeff Malone. Hello, boys.

[Matt Koplik]

Hey, how are you? Happy New Year.

[Jeff Malone]

Like, hey, hey, you guys just said that at the exact same time. Hey, so sweet. Happy New Year. How are you guys doing this, this new year so far?

[Matt Koplik]

We're doing well. We're new year news, you know, ready for a lot, reflecting on a lot of shows of 2025 and looking ahead to 2026. But all is well.

[Richie Grasso]

So.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, well, that's. That is why we're here. It is our very first way too early Tony predictions episode. We love to get this shit in, like in January when it's still so wide open that anything is possible. Rather than do an official ballot for January, what I have decided to do for us, gentlemen, is to look back on the season so far that we have seen and there are a couple of things that you're seeing in the next week after, before this episode comes out, but after we record. So we're all kind of feeling our way through, but we're looking back on the season so far and just kind of telling listeners based on what we've seen, what we're telling everyone to maybe not forget about, come May, maybe be bold and put that on your predictions ballot because that just might happen from our own personal insight.

[Matt Koplik]

So I feel like. And it's tough because I feel like unfortunately so many things from June to December are forgotten a lot of times in the Tony Awards. Not all, of course, but there's a lot of things that do get not counted in because a. And things open in March and April, you know, so it'll be interesting to see how that all pans out.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, there we definitely have a busy spring per us, but it's not as busy as the last couple of years overall. It's fewer shows this season, especially on the musical front. So that'll be interesting to see what happens with nominations. I have some thoughts and I'm sure you do too. So let's do We. Let's get. Yeah, let's get. Let's get into it. You guys pick the first category and. And we'll go from there.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay. Should we start big or should we go smaller? We have a whole breakdown here. I'm gonna say we go. Let's go. Should we just go with a big one first?

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah, like, Best play.

[Matt Koplik]

Let's go. Best play. Let's go there.

[Jeff Malone]

Best play, baby.

[Matt Koplik]

All right, we are. What's eligible so far, right? We have Call Me Izzy Punch, Little Bear Ridge Road, Liberation Art and Waiting for Godot and Oedipus.

[Richie Grasso]

No, those are revivals.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, those are revivals. Sorry, Liber. I read them all. I meant to read just the new play. Call Me Izzy Punch, Little Bear, Ridge Road, Liberation.

[Jeff Malone]

Yes, I think all out is also eligible. Like, all in was eligible last year. But also, let's be real.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, I don't think that's going.

[Richie Grasso]

Did you see it?

[Jeff Malone]

No, I didn't see it. I saw All In Laughter, and that was enough for me. I'm not seeing All Out. All out, which. Which has a lineup of people I care less about. And apparently this year's stories from Simon Rich are not. Are even worse than last year's. So we're. No, we're not seeing.

[Matt Koplik]

I know. I think Lawrence being there playing is kind of cool, but other than that, like, I'm like, I don't need to spend all this money to go and see that. You know, it's a placeholder. So. All right, best Play. What do you think?

[Richie Grasso]

I mean, right now, I'm putting my money on Liberation as best Play from what we've seen.

[Jeff Malone]

Yes. I think Liberation is an absolute lock for a nomination. It is absolutely the front runner right now. We've got some British imports come in that are supposedly heavy hitters like Giant and every brilliant thing. But at this moment, it is Liberation. I also say Little Bear Ridge Road is probably a lock at this point. Punch and call me Izzy. You know, you did.

[Richie Grasso]

You.

[Jeff Malone]

You had your moments.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Power to you. I think there is a world in which they get recognized in other spots. We'll get to that in a second part of me.

[Matt Koplik]

Call Me as he'll be completely forgotten. I didn't really like it either, but.

[Jeff Malone]

I mean, no, it wasn't a good play. I think the only way that that play gets recognized down the line would be Gene Smart and even that. I'm thinking, like, probably a Drama League nomination performance. And that's. We're calling. Where we're calling it. Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Yep, yep.

[Richie Grasso]

Yep.

[Matt Koplik]

All right. Well, I guess we can go into revival since I already read them through. So best revival art waiting for Godot and Oedipus so far. And we have a lot of revivals coming this spring, but that's what we got so far.

[Jeff Malone]

Well, so the question is, what happens with Bug and Marjorie prime, as this is technically their Broadway debuts, but they've both been around for a while. Marjorie prime was a Pulitzer finalist 12 years ago. Bug has been around for over 20 years, has a movie version. So does Marjorie Prime. I'm going to go ahead and say that they're going to be considered revivals. I think these are going to fall under the classics ruling. But of course, Tony's going to. Tony last year was weird because we had Eureka Day, which should have been considered original. That fell into revival for. And then many years ago, one man, two governors. I know they tried to make that a revival that ended up going in as original. So I do think Bug and Marjorie prime, which are both over a decade old. Bug is like 20 years old and both had movie versions. I think they'll be under the classics rule at the moment. I'm going to say Oedipus is a lock for revival. Probably front runner to win, especially with Leslie Manville such a front runner at actress. But we'll talk about that in a second.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

And then I will also. I'm gonna also put in a bid for Marjorie prime for revival right now. And just that's where I'm gonna leave that. Only because we also have proof, and Joe Turner's coming gone, and Fallen Angels coming in the spring. And I feel like there's another one, Death of a Salesman. Right. So I think at the moment we've got eight candidates for revival, which means there are going to be four nominees.

[Matt Koplik]

Right.

[Jeff Malone]

So it's. Yeah.

[Richie Grasso]

So with that, we would have Becky Shaw, too. Will that be revival?

[Jeff Malone]

Is that revival or original? I don't know much about because it also.

[Richie Grasso]

I was doing some research on it. It also had an off Broadway run, I believe.

[Jeff Malone]

So how long ago do we know that was?

[Richie Grasso]

I don't know. I was trying to categorize what was like, off Broadway, like, revival verse, new, and it kept coming up that it was potentially going to be in revival.

[Matt Koplik]

It opened off probably in 2008.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, that's long enough. That's. Yeah.

[Richie Grasso]

I don't know much about that show other than that's it.

[Jeff Malone]

Also, if. If Ms. Becky shot Ms. Shaw, if you're nasty, if she is deemed revival, then yeah, then I Guess that would be nine, and we would have five.

[Matt Koplik]

And that's a lot of revivals then. That's why.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, that is absolutely the most stacked category of the season.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. Well, I guess not stacked. The most packed. Stacked implies that they're all amazing revivals. We were packed with play revivals this year, but so if we do. If we do have five, then I'm definitely calling Marjorie prime. So. Oedipus. Marjorie Prime. I would even put in a bid for Bug, much as I found this production to be kind of just okay. I know the reception, the critical reception has been very strong. It's. It is a solid play. And Carrie Coon is fantastic. We'll get to her in a second. But, yeah, we'll see what happens with Proof. And Joe Turner and Fallen Angels and, and, and Becker, Shaw and Death of a Salesman even. Because if they're all. If they're all great, then I, I think it'll be very easy for them to forget about Bug. I just think Bug is very divisive as a play, and this production's not.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay.

[Jeff Malone]

A super compelling case for it. Yeah. What about you guys? What are you. Love what you've seen?

[Richie Grasso]

Right now we're probably going Oedipus too.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Richie Grasso]

Because we've only seen Art Waiting for Godot and Oedipus, so.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, I mean, listen, Art and Waiting for Godot, they made their money back. Good for them.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

That is their reward.

[Matt Koplik]

Right. I don't think there was anything to write home about for either of those. They're both good plays, obviously, but I don't think these productions needed to warrant any sort of big Tony buzz.

[Jeff Malone]

These productions weren't even terrible. I, I. Waiting for Godot. I walked out going, that was less painful than I expected. But that wasn't great. And then Art, I was like, this wasn't terrible. It was just insanely missable.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, right, right. And money makers, clearly. Right.

[Jeff Malone]

So, yeah, no, they, they, they made their money. All right.

[Richie Grasso]

I like Art for the first time, so.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, yeah, it was his first time, so I was like, cool. Art.

[Jeff Malone]

Art is such a 90s play.

[Richie Grasso]

It's, it's.

[Jeff Malone]

It was this play that was such a huge deal for 1998. And it's, it's one of those plays you see, and when you hear how popular it was, you go, that really was a pre 911 world, wasn't it?

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Right, right, right.

[Jeff Malone]

It's the kind of play that Big takes Carrie Bradshaw to in season one of Sex and the City.

[Matt Koplik]

That is spot On. Yes.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. And Carrie feels all cultured about it over brunch. All right, so we have play and play revival. Let's. I mean, musical revival is also weird right now because it's just ragtime in chess. And we've got, we've got Cats, Jellicoe Ball, and we've got Rocky Horror coming in the spring. And Mama Mia is also eligible. And is there, there's another one, right.

[Matt Koplik]

I guess Beetlejuice could be eligible for its.

[Jeff Malone]

No, Beetlejuice isn't eligible. They didn't, they didn't invite Tony people.

[Matt Koplik]

Got it, got it, got it.

[Jeff Malone]

Mamma Mia is eligible. They, they invited Tony people, especially because they did an eligibility ruling recently that did not include Beetlejuice, but it did include Mamma Mia. Which they just, they mentioned. What they said was the actress playing Donna is going to be considered leading, which implies that the show is eligible. I mean, I don't think anything on the design or production standpoint, so I think we're just looking at revival and actors.

[Richie Grasso]

But what do you feel if Titanique will be new or revival?

[Matt Koplik]

That's a big question we've had.

[Jeff Malone]

I think Titanique is gonna be considered new.

[Matt Koplik]

Really.

[Jeff Malone]

I do.

[Matt Koplik]

I have a hard time understanding exactly what goes through the process with them because it just had such a long, successful Off Broadway run very recently. So that's why. I don't know.

[Jeff Malone]

I think that not enough time has passed between it closing and it coming to Broadway. I don't, I think that it hasn't been optioned for licensing yet. I'm almost positive it hasn't. And from what I understand, this production is going to be not, if not a replica, similar vibe of the Off Broadway production. I, I, as I understand it, it's the same creative team, so it'll be like a heroized love situation where it's. Everyone involved from Off Broadway is coming to Broadway and maybe expanding it. But it is the same DNA as Off Broadway.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

I do think it's gonna be. Yeah, I think it's gonna be considered new. But I think that's it for revivals, Right? It's. It's chess, Ragtime, Jellicoe Ball, Rocky Horror. There's another one. No, there's another one in there. Oh.

[Matt Koplik]

And then Mamma Mia.

[Jeff Malone]

Mamma Mia.

[Matt Koplik]

That's all we had down.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. So then we're looking at three nominees here.

[Matt Koplik]

Three. So I mean, if I had to choose the three, I mean, it'll be. If we took Mamma Mia out, let's just say it, it would Be. It could be Ragtime. I think Cats for sure. I think Ragtime for sure for nominee. I think those two. And then it'll be between Chess and Rocky Horror. I don't really know if Rocky Horror is going to be this big, groundbreaking thing or is it just going to replicate parts of the movie and kind of be a money maker and go home. I don't know.

[Jeff Malone]

I'm going to go out on a limb. Unless Rocky Horror really shits the bed. Like, unless it's just really fucking bad. I'm going to go ahead and say that Rocky Horror will get in over Chess. Wow.

[Matt Koplik]

Wow.

[Jeff Malone]

I do. I think. I think that Roundabout has a really good relationship with the Tony Awards.

[Matt Koplik]

They do, they do.

[Jeff Malone]

They don't always win, but they tend to get nominated.

[Matt Koplik]

Almost always get nominated.

[Richie Grasso]

Like, yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Rocky Heart. Rocky Heart is an exciting property for sure. And similar to art and waiting for Gato. Chess is making money. And that's good enough for Tony people to like, oh, they. They don't need us. And I don't know how they'll all feel about it. The word I've been getting from people, my own opinions aside, has been divided. Some people are like, chess was fun, but it was stupid. And people who are so balls deep in love with Chess that saw this revival and were mad because it took the show so stupidly. But, yeah, I don't think Chess is getting in. I think that they'll get a couple of outside nominations.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, maybe I've heard that. And we're seeing it soon and we've been waiting a while to see it, but I think it's just. I've heard everything from. It's amazing to, like, what is that? You know, Because I feel like the music. Most people leave and say, oh, I love that music. And there's a few really great songs, of course, in that score. That's why people love that show in that way.

[Richie Grasso]

But, yeah, I think I'm just going with the bold statement that Cats is winning. But that's it.

[Matt Koplik]

He really thinks.

[Richie Grasso]

That's it.

[Matt Koplik]

He really thinks Cats.

[Jeff Malone]

We're talking about winning now.

[Richie Grasso]

I know we're doing that part, but I'm like, hey, I just think that's winning. So good luck.

[Jeff Malone]

Do you want to have this chat now and then we can move on?

[Richie Grasso]

It only has to be this category, but.

[Matt Koplik]

It seems like it's between Ragtime and Cats to win. That's what it seems like. Right?

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, I. Okay. I really don't want to. I'm trying. I need to word this carefully. Because I don't want to. There may or may not be also some people involved with this Ragtime. Who are not super well liked in the community and that. And so people are kind of looking for any reason to not vote for them. I'm just gonna leave it there.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Okay. I hear you loud and clear.

[Richie Grasso]

I feel like you validate my bold statement.

[Jeff Malone]

Absolutely. That's why when you said that, I was like, oh, I didn't know we were allowed to talk about this. And so I just. So I'm trying to say it in this vague terms as possible again. Because these. These opinions that were given to me were not given under the guise of like, don't you tell anybody. But they also didn't say, say my name and say what I felt and why I'm feeling this way. I mentioned it in my. In my review of Ragtime. You know, you look in the Playbill and it's a creative consultant, Chris Catelli. That is one of two people that were heavily involved in helping get Ragtime opening night ready. And every. It's. It's well known in the community that that's sort of what happened.

[Richie Grasso]

I mean, I feel like that's very, like, on the nose. Because I also think that there was so many missed opportunities. But with this Ragtime production, listen, I think, like, a lot of people just like Ragtime and they're happy that it's on Broadway. But, like, there was so many things that you could have done with this show.

[Jeff Malone]

Oh, yeah. A lot of white people are happy to sit in that audience and feel like they're doing the work. Cause they're at Ragtime.

[Matt Koplik]

This could be a whole nother podcast conversation on the day. But scenery on Broadway and what's going on with scenic design on Broadway. And when some shows want to throw scaffolding up and a band on the scaffolding, call it a day. And some shows want to put lavish scenery like Queen of Versailles. And then some shows want to take the Vivian Beaumont Theater and treat it like a concert hall. I just feel like that was the opportunity to put a really great set up. And did it work without a set? Sure. But my biggest thing with this Ragtime revival is this bear stage. Bear stage, bear stage. Put them center down, center down, center, bear stage. And just put a different color on the psych behind them. It seems so concert y to me. It didn't seem like it just. That's what's really bothering me with the survival mostly.

[Jeff Malone]

You know, put Casey Levy in a Tampax commercial and Call it back to before. That is. That's absolutely what that moment is like.

[Matt Koplik]

You could. You couldn't have even just revealed the stage like Lincoln center has done with all those Roger Hammerstein scores and showed us the orchestra for the over or for like an entre act moment. Like, even just give us something. Like. There was nothing. There was just. I just so many.

[Jeff Malone]

I don't. I. I didn't mean for this episode to be shitting on Ragtime episode. Because I don't think this production is bad.

[Matt Koplik]

No, it's not bad.

[Jeff Malone]

And I've made my issues with the musical Ragtime on its own made clear in my review. I think Ragtime is a very well made musical with a score that is, like, non stop glorious. But also, I find that show a little hollow. The revival did not do anything to fight me on that. I'll just say that. And like, every. For every moment in this production that I thought was actually very well done, it was then followed up by a moment where I was like, well, that was missed. Billy, I beg to differ with you.

[Matt Koplik]

How do you mean? You're the top.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. You're an Arrow caller.

[Matt Koplik]

You're the top.

[Jeff Malone]

You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Freddy's day. Yeah, I have a feeling this is gonna freeze again just because it said the error thing. But fuck it. All right, all right. So that's enough talk about Ragtime. I think that we should move on. But so revival, yes, at the moment, Ragtime is absolutely luck. I am going to be a shitter and say Chess is not getting in.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay.

[Jeff Malone]

But that's to say, best musical, we've got six options this year. We only have two that have opened so far. Queen of Versailles and Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York, which we did see. I'm gonna. You did see. I'm gonna go on a limb and say Two Strangers is in. It's probably the front runner right now. We'll see what happens with the other four musicals in the spring. But that's sort of where we're. I think Queen of Versailles actually will get some nominations, but musical will not be one of them.

[Matt Koplik]

I agree with that. And I will say that every other show coming this spring is wildly different. Some are dark, some are really comedic. It's what, between Beaches, Titanique, Lost Boys and Schmigadoon, those are four of the most completely random titles of shows, you.

[Richie Grasso]

Know, and when you.

[Jeff Malone]

When you said some are dark, some are comedic, I was going to reply With. And some are Beaches. Like, it's knows what Beaches is going to be.

[Matt Koplik]

I don't know what to expect with that. I have a really low expectation, Bar. I. I know Wind Beneath My Wings will be a big hit. Jessica Bosque will be a big hit. I get that.

[Jeff Malone]

But, yeah, I don't know. No one seems pumped for it to be coming in. It doesn't even feel like the women in it are pumped that it's also like, I'm just.

[Matt Koplik]

I can't. In my head, I'm like, the Majestic. The Majestic. The Majestic. You know, like, Kevin's not here. Kevin's not here. I'm like, the Majestic that's in my brain. The Majestic. I just can't picture, like, that titanic at. And St. James, these huge theaters, these shows are going in. But, I mean, maybe it'll work.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. The. The tea that I heard was that Beaches has the Majestic. I think, until September, around that time. Maybe. Maybe a little longer than that. And they got it on a huge deal. They were already going on. On this tour. This is. You know, and. And so they're getting a really good price for it. And also the Shuberts needed something until September because supposedly that's where Dream Girls is going.

[Richie Grasso]

I figured that was my guess.

[Matt Koplik]

They needed to fill the rent, so.

[Jeff Malone]

Yes, exactly. And I think something's going into the same James after Titanique, but probably. Yeah. Because again, that was another thing where they were like, we. What can we have come in that is okay just being here until Labor Day. Or.

[Matt Koplik]

Which. Which doesn't justify, like, this Tony season because it feels like a Tony season. Like, Covid backlogs ended. We're in this middle ground. Like, what do we want to do? Like, let's just kind of throw some. Some paints on the wall, see if it sticks kind of thing. It just feels like that this year.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. I feel like this season is a lesson for everything that rushed their way to Broadway the last three years of. Maybe you should have taken that extra year to work on the show, because, hey, look, you could have had a theater this year, and you could have been a front runner.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all about timing. We said about Boop all the time. I mean, other things. I think Boop was in the wrong year.

[Jeff Malone]

Wrong year, wrong script.

[Matt Koplik]

Good. Some decent score, though. I like some of that music.

[Jeff Malone]

There were. I think Boop had three great songs, and the rest needed work. Score reminds me of Baker's Wife, where I was like, you had three bangers and the rest could have had another draft.

[Matt Koplik]

I agree on that. Those same three songs I listen to frequently. I do love those three songs.

[Jeff Malone]

I know which ones you're talking about, but we digress.

[Matt Koplik]

Let's.

[Jeff Malone]

Let's now work our way back up. So we did the four biggies.

[Matt Koplik]

Let's.

[Jeff Malone]

Let's work our way down. Let's go down and work our way up. We have sound design of a play and musical here. I'll just say, I think that technical categories is where we might see Waiting for Godot in. In the Spring. Especially that. That play with set lighting and sound design, I think is a really solid option. I think that Oedipus will probably see for sound design as well. The fact that, like, a. Everyone sounds so crystal clear, but also all the, like the TV screens you sort of hear in the background and all that, like, all that other minor stuff. I just think that's stuff that sound designers notice when they. When they nominate, you know, I think.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah, Oedipus is my definitely. That's what I put shoe in there. There was a lot of things happening with the ear that we were both like, wow. Yeah, there's definitely some.

[Matt Koplik]

Totally agree with that. And then I think, I mean, that's the one that just stands out to me too. And then, I mean, looking at some of the. I'm switching over to my sound design musical. I mean, I guess the only thing. The three things we could talk about right now are Ragtime, Queen of Versailles and Two Strangers. And I just put two strangers just because I actually. We actually had some slight sound issues with Ragtime. I. I personally. We were in the orchest. I personally had some balance issue. Not with literal design choices of ambient music, but I'm talking about, like, mics to orchestration, balance, blend. At our performance. And we were at a performance quite a few weeks after opening. It wasn't like we were at a preview. So I thought that was a little jar. I never heard that at Lincoln center before. But that was just maybe a bad sound performance for us. But there was a few. I actually looked over a couple times at the sound booth. But are they good? Like, that was just. I don't know if that was your experience. I.

[Jeff Malone]

The Beaumont is a really hard theater in general, and there are pockets where it just doesn't work. I don't know what it's about, because I had heard such sound issues for Floyd Collins. And then I go see Floyd Collins and I thought the sound design was impeccable when I liked it.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, I liked that.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. But that was something that people had complained about. Ragtime. I didn't have overwhelmingly bad issues with the sound so much as that. The imbalance I felt was like, I didn't actually think the orchestra sounded big enough. I actually, I actually felt. Felt that it was so voice forward that it felt like the. Similar to Sweeney Todd was like the orchestra sounds large, it just sounds a little far away. And that was my issue with it. But I'm sure that that won't matter since Sweeney Todd won sound design three years ago and I'm still throwing my shoe about it.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, it's interesting. Like, why do we just, like. Yeah, I think it was just a balanced thing for me. But I mean. But that's why I put two Strangers.

[Jeff Malone]

Because, yeah, no, two Strangers, I think is a solid choice. I also. I am going to throw Chess out there. I think that the sound design for Chess, while it is loud, it is clear and you do hear everything, right?

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

I was like, guys, this is where Mamma Mia. Comes into play. No, I.

[Richie Grasso]

Again, I think the one to watch will be when Cats goes.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, it's. I feel like Cats is going to be like the. The Sinners, one battle after another, where it's like, once it comes in, it's like, well, how many nominations can it rack up? And then that just sort of fucks around with everybody else. But yeah, I think in terms of what's open right now, you guys will see Chess soon enough. But I think of what I've seen, two strangers in Chess would be the ones that I would put chips on for this category. Queen of Versailles. I actually think I felt the sound design was actually pretty solid for that show. But I think that that's such an easy category to skip out on that it's not gonna happen.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. And it's also this conversation of which kind of leads into orchestrations. We could talk about that next if we want. Is like, is it fair to say, oh, a show that has a six piece band is equal to sound? Designing a 23 piece orchestra, is that fair? You know, that's a whole nother conversation. Cause I've heard like, we're talking about ragtime, this big full orchestra that doesn't seem well balanced. But then sometimes I hear these six or eight piece combo bands that sound amazing. So it's not about numbers per se, always. You know, it's hard. The.

[Jeff Malone]

The assignment itself alters based on each production. But that's also kind of the game for nominations in general. Right. Like, we're. We're talking about Ragtime versus Chess for revival right now. And they're very different approaches to shows that have very different reputations. Yeah. And the fact that I prefer Ragtime over Chess, I think has a lot to do with a. That I respect Ragtime War as material. But I also, I guess I. I'll give Chess props for making some bold swings. Whereas Ragtime, I do not think did make any really bold swings outside of a turntable. And I guess a framing device with that with. With Coal House's kid at the top of the show that never shows up again until the very, very end.

[Matt Koplik]

I said that. I know this is. We're going back on Ragtime, but I say you have this awesome idea in the beginning. It's directorial choice. Okay, that's cool. And then it's completely forgotten throughout the whole show. And no one realizes it because we're all like, look over there with the score. You know?

[Jeff Malone]

So I think that he doesn't show up again because if you think about it too much, it's actually weird how much of this story this child is hearing. In the same way, like in the, in the, in the Heights movie, when you find out that Usnavi is telling this whole thing to his daughter and her friends in the bodega. And I'm like, oh, so they heard about Benny and Nina. Like, like, how much story did you tell them and how much of it is us seeing it? So that's sort of my thing.

[Matt Koplik]

Like, they cut to reminding us that this is a story told by a narrator in that way. This I, I, I. My biggest pet peeve of a lot of directors are doing this lately on Broadway is you start with this cool idea or concept, and then we completely forget about it at the end. And it's happened quite. I can name it quite a few times. And I'm like, just button it. We're. We button numbers with lighting design choice. Why don't we button the story? Like, I don't know.

[Jeff Malone]

To Chess's credit, they remind every three minutes that Bryce Pinkham is your narrator. Remind you every three minutes to the point that you start to resent Bryce Pinkham.

[Matt Koplik]

Like Bryce, though. But I.

[Jeff Malone]

We loved him and he's doing his damn best. So, yeah, for. So, okay. Sound design, Oedipus two Strangers. I'm also. I'm going to put in a bid for Chess. I'm going to put in a bid for Waiting for Gato. Just. It's a, It's a, It's a Jamie Lloyd production. So ASMR is. Is the headline here.

[Matt Koplik]

Yep. And then if we wanted to kind of go over to Orchestration, I think there was only two right now eligible, which would be two strangers of Queen or versa. I don't think Ragtime or Chess has new orchestrations. Right.

[Jeff Malone]

Chess, I think has new orchestrations.

[Matt Koplik]

Or.

[Jeff Malone]

Or they're altered enough Ragtime. I know they're using the original charts. I think it's a smaller orchestra than the original, but it's overall the same charts. I think Chess is. It's a. It's a different sized band. It's. There. There are songs that are in different places. So I do think it's. I mean, I'm sure they're based off of OG stuff, but I believe it's new. Yeah. So I think. So if those are the three, then we'll have. I'm sure Rocky Horror is going to be eligible for orchestrations. I have it on good authority that Jellicoe Ball is doing some more stuff with the music this time.

[Matt Koplik]

Cool. Cool. And I thought that orchestration sounded great.

[Jeff Malone]

It did. Well, they didn't. They didn't do a ton with the orchestrations. Off Broadway it was. They would put in a little bit of a club beat. But I. As I understand it now, Andrew Lloyd Webber has given them further permission to around and find out with the music.

[Matt Koplik]

Cool.

[Richie Grasso]

Go for it.

[Matt Koplik]

Take. I'll take it. I. It has this like. Yeah, I just thought the music was really great in that, so.

[Jeff Malone]

Oh yeah, no, it's. It's. I'll bring you guys back in like April. We'll see where we feel about stuff.

[Matt Koplik]

I. And then also. Okay, I will say, you know, I didn't mind the orchestrations for Queen of Versailles. I don't think all the songs are great in Queen of Versailles, but I'm watch. I mean, that's a pretty decent orchestra for a new Broadway show. I thought for. For Stephen Schwartz, orchestrations of his shows are unusually bad. I think wicked orchestrations are good. Right.

[Jeff Malone]

So no, it's a 19 piece orchestra. John Clancy is really good at what he does. There's.

[Matt Koplik]

He's.

[Jeff Malone]

There are certain pockets of his orchestrations that I think about a lot. I mean, you can listen to CAVIAR dreams on YouTube still. And I think what he does with that song really helps a lot. We'll put a pin in that as we get to score. Because my thoughts on a possible orchestration nomination for them kind of hinges on the fact that they are going to get a score nomination and I think people are not willing to accept that yet.

[Matt Koplik]

No, I get that. I mean, let's go over to score now.

[Jeff Malone]

Sure. So at the moment, our only two eligible scores are Two Strangers and Queen of Versailles, not counting any plays with original music, which I'm sure we've got a few that are going to happen. I wonder what might happen with Marjorie Prime. I wonder what's going to happen in the spring with stuff. But in terms of other musicals, it's Beaches and Lost Boys and that's it. Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, is Schmigadoon considered an original score? No. Right. Because they were made for tv.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. I think Schmigadoon is going to fall in line with the same thing as Smash, where, like, yes, it was written for this property, but in a different medium.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

And so it's an adapt. It's an adaptation of a previously written score.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

That'll be interesting. I mean, I'm. I'm seeing. I. I wonder if Stephen Schwartz will be nominated for Queen of Society just because he's Stephen Schwartz and it was his first original show in 25 years or whatever. Like, I. I don't know, maybe they might throw the bone to him on that.

[Jeff Malone]

I think it's the fact that it's Schwartz. I think it's the fact that it's one of the few genuine original scores they are recording, or they just recorded the cast album. So that'll be out around the time that nominators are starting to think about this. And there are worse scores than Queen of Versailles that got nominated in much more crowded fields.

[Matt Koplik]

Agreed.

[Richie Grasso]

I really hope they did two cast recordings, one with Kristen and one with Sherry.

[Matt Koplik]

I doubt that, but that would be kind of cool.

[Jeff Malone]

That would be absolutely awesome. I mean, they won't do this. If anything, I wish that they would give us, like, two bonus tracks of Sherry, you know, when, like, I mean, they should.

[Richie Grasso]

So they could see how many people actually listen to the Sherry recordings and see what they should have done.

[Matt Koplik]

Do you know what they should do? This is so. This is gonna be so niche, what I'm about to say, but I don't know if you ever listen to the original, like, if you ever listen to, like, Little Shop of Horrors or Annie, they have, like, the bonus tracks at the end when it's like Alan Menken sitting at the piano singing on Cut Song, or like, they do that with Ann, I think Charles Strauss, like they did with Annie, like, and it's just like some muffly recording, recording of them in a studio, and I'm like, oh, that'd be kind of cool. If there was like, we're gonna throw this bonus track, and it's like Sherry sitting with Stephen, just singing casually in the studio, like, that would be kind of cool, maybe.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, well, Grand Hotel has that, too. If you. If you ever listen to Cast recording for Grand Hotel because David Carroll died before he could lay down his tracks, so they have a bonus track of him singing Love Can't Happen at some concert or cabaret somewhere. Yeah. And it's really nice. So, yeah, it would be great if they had a bonus track of, like, Sherry's first. Listen, I can send them the audio. I have it. Of Sherry's first performance singing that 11 o' clock number. You know, it's. It's just so good. I also have audio of her. What was supposed to be her final show before.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yep, yep. Oh, now we lost the video. But I hear you.

[Jeff Malone]

You guys are frozen again. But I can. I can hear you. We can hear you.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, good. We can hear you still. But our video. Oh, my God. This is a hard.

[Richie Grasso]

I spoke too soon when I was texting you saying we never have a problem.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, my God. Well, we're connected still. This is not an Internet problem. Now access your video. Check the cameras. On and connected. And we refresh.

[Richie Grasso]

Oh, hello.

[Jeff Malone]

Okay, we're back.

[Matt Koplik]

Yay.

[Jeff Malone]

Sometimes you just got to stick through it. Okay.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay.

[Jeff Malone]

So. Okay. So, yeah, with score, I. I think that that's what's gonna happen with Queen of Versailles. I think that they are going to get that nomination from the recording. From the shorts of it all. I also do think genuinely feel like there are songs in that show that work, and then there are other songs that obviously don't work. But I. I see a women on the verge trajectory where the show was trashed when it came out. I mean, in some ways, rightfully so. And then the recording comes out, everyone goes, oh, like, out. Away from the mess of it all. There is something here worth listening to. And I think that also will help John Clancy's case for orchestrations, whether he actually gets the nomination. Who's to say? But I think that he has a better shot once they get that cast recording.

[Matt Koplik]

Totally.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

But, I mean, two Strangers at the moment is at the forefront just of the new scores we have. Yeah, we'll see what happens with Lost Boys. I'm not even going to entertain the idea that Beaches is a true competitor here.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, I just.

[Jeff Malone]

I haven't even heard a note of it.

[Matt Koplik]

I don't recognize the composer's name on it, so I don't know if they're new to the scene or.

[Jeff Malone]

I just listen. We really don't like to have prejudice on things before they have a chance to prove themselves. But just everything that I have heard of this show from every incarnation out of town, everyone who's involved with it being like, we're not even sure why we're coming in. It's just no one. Even the people who are supposed to be vouching for this show are just sort of like, we'll see.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Richie Grasso]

Okay.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. And that's so exciting. I wonder if they're just relying on, like, the older Generation who loves the 80s movie and Bette Midler to be showing up no matter what. Maybe there's that reliance, you know?

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. I mean, if you're sitting the Majestic from far enough away in that wig, Vosk, you can pretend I said this.

[Matt Koplik]

I said, please, please change the wig. Please. If there's anything from those production photos we have to learn is that that original wig is not it.

[Jeff Malone]

No. Raggedy Ann in a Power Rangers jacket like that.

[Matt Koplik]

Even Jessica herself. Thank God she's going to finally originate a leading role on Broadway. Like, that's cool. Like, I've been waiting for this day for her so that, you know, if it's this, then take it where you can get it.

[Jeff Malone]

You know, What.

[Matt Koplik]

What.

[Jeff Malone]

What can you do with this opportunity down the line? That's. That's what we want to ask. But, like, yeah, I saw that wig and I went. If ever there was an argument of why the Tonys need a best wig category, it's to show everyone that this is not a nominee.

[Matt Koplik]

Yep, yep, yep. Yes. I would disagree with that for sure. I guess. I mean, guess. I guess we could transition over to costumes if we want. Now.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, let's do a costume.

[Matt Koplik]

We. Costumes of a musical. I mean, we have Linda Cho for Ragtime, Christian Cowan for Queen of Versailles, and then Sotra Gilmore for Two Strangers. Those are really the three going. Going. Right. Except Chess, again, we haven't seen, but. I don't know. I haven't seen. I know. It's a lot of all black, Right.

[Jeff Malone]

If Chess were.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

If Chess were to get a costume design nomination, that really would be like, we don't know. It's. Listen, there's a lot about Chess that I do not like, but if I'm gonna give them their roses anywhere, it is not costume design. Where Lea Michele is basically wearing a black jumpsuit the entire show.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. I mean, I will say I'm a big fan of Linda Cho's Designs. I've always liked what she did for costumes, and I think that she's probably the front runner for Ragtime. Cause I think one of the best parts of Ragtime is those costumes. Costumes.

[Jeff Malone]

I think the costumes do a lot of heavy lifting. She is well liked. She has. I think she's won twice now.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

And it's also a period show. The. Yeah, I think that she has a good shot. My question is, is. I hate to bring up, you know, Jellicoe ball again, because who knows? But if I have a deja Vu of 2022 when 6.1 Costume Design over period shows like Music man in Paradise Square.

[Matt Koplik]

We talk about this all the time. Yep.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. Because obviously, you know, contemporary, more contemporary designs have a hard time getting in Hell's Kitchen. Getting a nomination is sort of this random anomaly. But something like six, which is its own world, but very hyper specific and really sells it. I wonder if something with Jellicoe, if that will help it.

[Matt Koplik]

I will also say. And I know this has nothing to do with it, but I will bring this up because there's a part of me that says when you design six costumes for the musical, six plus four for the band. Right. Cause they had Raven costumes, so maybe it's like 10 or 12 costumes. But then that same year in the Music man, you must have designed 100. Over 100. I mean, so to me, it's not about the number. I totally understand that. But I have a hard time sitting here and saying, like, don't you. I know. Yes. They have associates and assistants that are helping them with all these designs when they have massive designs. I just think, like, to me, it does come down to that a little bit. Maybe that should be. If I was a Tony voter, I would consider the number of costumes up there.

[Jeff Malone]

I would equate that, Richie. I would. I would equate that, Richie, with you fed a hundred students Kraft Mac and Cheese. They're fed, but it's Kraft Mac and cheese. Meanwhile, these five students got filet mignon.

[Matt Koplik]

I know, but it's not. Can't tell me.

[Richie Grasso]

It's custom design.

[Matt Koplik]

I know design, but you can't tell me that those costumes and Music man and those pick a little lady hats and all that aren't gorgeous. This. That's the way look at it.

[Jeff Malone]

You're saying that I can't tell you that?

[Matt Koplik]

No, I'm saying I. I'm saying you won't hear it. Yeah. I don't think that's crap. Mac and Cheese, the Music man costume.

[Richie Grasso]

That's what I'm saying they look great, but in terms of design, I think 6 was more inventive.

[Matt Koplik]

I get that. And that's why I'm like. When I look at two strangers, I'm like, I don't know if we're going to really. Right. That's what I'm trying to say. Right. So.

[Richie Grasso]

But the one to watch is Jellicoe Ball, because you're taking ball culture and marrying it with cats.

[Jeff Malone]

Fe.

[Richie Grasso]

Look that is designed really well.

[Jeff Malone]

So, I mean, I'm also going to say, keep an eye out for Rocky Horror. Let's see what they do with. With those Transylvanians.

[Matt Koplik]

Is a period piece. We'll see what happens with Schmidt.

[Jeff Malone]

I was gonna say, I think Schmincadoon is a wild card in a lot of these categories, specifically costume and orchestrations and choreography.

[Matt Koplik]

But yes.

[Richie Grasso]

Choreography, choreography.

[Jeff Malone]

But score. If this all comes down to. Or no, we're on costumes now. I. Let's move into choreography now. Let's. Let's. Let's do that. At the moment, we've got Chess, Ragtime, and two strangers. Eligible in the spring will be Rocky Horror, Schmuckadoon, Lost Boys, Beaches, Titanique, and Jellicoe Ball. Again, I feel like I'm showing my hand a little bit. I'm just already calling out Jellicoe Ball and Schmigadoon as nominees in this category.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, totally.

[Jeff Malone]

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say Lost Boys.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Having not seen a frame of anything from that show. Just the fact that there's aerial work in it.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

I'm like, I'm sorry. This is. It's. It's giving me Water for Elephants vibes. Or I'm just like. The fact that you can combine the two, and if they do it even remotely. Well, it's getting in.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

So then it becomes. I think we have that make. I think that's nine contenders then, because it's Queen of Versailles, Two Strangers, Chess, Ragtime, Beaches, Titanique, Schmigadoon. Yeah, we're. It's gonna be at least nine, so we'll have five contenders. So I'm. I'm looking at Schmigadoon. I'm looking at Lost Boys. I'm looking at Jellicoe Ball. So then we got two more.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, I think I put Ragtime as of now, because out of Queen of Versailles and Two Strangers, Ragtime has more choreo in it in terms of. In terms of what I think Eleanor Scott did with the Choreo in that. And there's not much choreo and ragtime, but there's movement. There is some dance breaks. Ish. A couple times.

[Jeff Malone]

And they. They move around in those circles. In the opening number.

[Richie Grasso]

I was gonna say, there's a lot of walking.

[Matt Koplik]

Right, right.

[Jeff Malone]

There's a lot of walking on that donut.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. I'm gonna put ragtime in there for now with the little asterisk of come find me in the spring and we'll talk and we'll see what happens.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly.

[Jeff Malone]

Because I also think Sam Pinkleton, I think, is such a really smart choreographer. And I don't know what he's going to do with ragtime, but there's a possibility that can happen.

[Matt Koplik]

Rocky heart.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. For Rocky Heart. I. And then.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, it doesn't really have like a lot of choreo, from what I remember is not.

[Jeff Malone]

It has a lot of movement in the same way that ragtime does. It's. It's. It's. I would call it more. There is choreography, but it's. It's less showy and more just sort of how it fits with the direction. I. I actually think the. The staging and choreography for Titanique is very clever and works really well. And well integrated could happen. You know, people always talk about having most choreography. I talk about it a lot too. And I do think that that helps with winning most of the time. But I don't think that every show that has most choreography gets in for a nomination. There's usually one or two slightly more interesting nominees in there that never win, but, like, get in there. And that's where I feel like Titanic could possibly come. That's where if Rocky Horror has enough movement that can go in. I am going to keep ragtime over chess.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay. There's choreo in chess. Right?

[Jeff Malone]

There is choreography in chess. But how many Lauren Lotaro shows have been ignored at this point?

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

I'm not entirely convinced that chess is going to break that trend for her.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay. Okay.

[Richie Grasso]

Your fave.

[Matt Koplik]

You made a speechless job. Wow. I can't believe it.

[Richie Grasso]

I'm very aware.

[Matt Koplik]

I thought there was some cool bubble popping moments in Heart of Rock and Roll. That was her too, right? That was kind of some cool.

[Jeff Malone]

She did do Heart of Rock and Roll. I liked the idea of that number. I did not like the execution of that number.

[Matt Koplik]

And I will say I did like the choreo. And Tommy. I know Tommy was a little bit of everything. I didn't mind her choreo. I will. In some parts.

[Jeff Malone]

The people I know who are in Tommy Loved doing that choreography. And so I'm like. I'm like. Happy. You're happy?

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

My issue with her choreography and Tom, it's my issue with her choreography in general of just, like, she goes for me, she goes too big, too soon, and there's nowhere for the numbers to go after that.

[Matt Koplik]

Right.

[Jeff Malone]

And so everything gets sloppy like, a minute in. And Tommy, I remember watching just going, like, from the. From the jump. People were doing backflips. It's like, we're starting here. Where can we go now? But that's also how I felt about Tommy in general as a production. So in a lot of ways, she didn't match the energy Dess wanted her to match. So she did her assignment. But, like, that whole 30 minutes into Tommy, I just plateaued and was like, oh, sorry. I plateaued. And I was like, I'm overwhelmed now. There's too much happening.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. There was a lot going on with.

[Jeff Malone]

That show, but you'll see with Jess, I mean, Aaron Tveit does a line of coke off of a dancer's leg.

[Matt Koplik]

It was also, like, so loud, and I was not sitting up close. I was like, this is really loud. Like, and I'm usually pretty okay with that for the most part. That was a loud for the.

[Jeff Malone]

Who's Tommy?

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. Same thing with Jazz with Choose. Every. Every year, there's a show or two that I've decided that I'm just gonna start saying their names weirdly. Last year it was Smoosh, and this year it's Choose.

[Matt Koplik]

I love it. The one word titles, too.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. And it's always. It seems to be the Imperial Theater. Always a musical at the Imperial. That's one word. Choose.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. All right, where are we bopping to next? We did.

[Jeff Malone]

Let's go back to some design categories. Let's look at. Oh, I mean, we haven't really done costume design of a play. That's a little harder right now. But let's combine costume design of a play with lightning design for both.

[Matt Koplik]

Lighting costume of a play. So for plays, I think we can.

[Jeff Malone]

See Liberation for costume design.

[Matt Koplik]

Totally put that as my number one. Yeah.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

I mean, we'll see again. We'll see in the. In the spring what happens. I don't know what the design situation is like with Giant, what's going to happen with Fallen Angels, but those are more period shows. Period shows tend to do well in.

[Matt Koplik]

General, especially in Liberation. Again, here's a moment where I wish there was a wig nomination, because those wigs in Liberation were insanely Good.

[Jeff Malone]

Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Like everyone. I was like, this is such impeccable design. I swore I was in the 70s with that.

[Richie Grasso]

Like, just the way I think of everything that we've seen, probably Liberation's my only one to, like, remember not even Oedipus. I mean, for costumes.

[Jeff Malone]

Oh, I thought Jeff was talking overall, like, in.

[Richie Grasso]

No, no, no, for costumes.

[Jeff Malone]

Oh, fantastic. Great. I was like, Jeff, I was like, how dare you leave Oedipus off your list of things that left an impression on you. Yeah, no costumes.

[Richie Grasso]

Just for costumes. Out of all the plays that we've seen, I think we have so many coming that they're gonna be the ones that are remembered. And, like, Liberation be the only one that I think would still be a contender.

[Jeff Malone]

No, I think agreed. I think in the spring, we have Joe's Turner's coming. Gone to look forward to Giant Death of a Salesman. I Fallen Angels. We'll see what, we'll see what the situation is with Dog the Afternoon. But that's another 70s piece, so all period stuff.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, it'll be very tight, that category. And then I guess, bopping over to lighting of a play, the same thing. I, I, I think Oedipus lighting was amazing. I, it's still in my brain. The last, last scene. Spoiler alert for y' all listening. The last scene, you know, after the moment, there was something about thinking that the play was over when it wasn't and doing that flashback and seeing that, like, beautiful, angelic sunrise light sticks in my mind. I can still see it right now. I don't know what that just with him running towards her in the final moment before the blackout. That was incredible lighting to me. I just thought that was so well lit, that show.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, Jeff, Oedipus was really good. I don't know why it's not on your list.

[Matt Koplik]

I always say Oedipus.

[Jeff Malone]

Sometimes I say, oh, well, we've all been saying Oedipus. And this is the production that's been calling it Oedipus.

[Matt Koplik]

I know, I know.

[Richie Grasso]

I think that Oedipus is my one to remember here for lighting. I don't know if I would probably think any of the others are going to get remembered for lighting either.

[Jeff Malone]

I think there's a chance for Waiting for Godot. I feel like Waiting for Godot could be the Gray House of, you know, it was earlier in the season and it'll get two nominations. Sound and lighting or set, who knows? But, yeah, I think Oedipus I would consider pretty much A lock. I would also say Punch and Waiting for Godot. Possible nominations. There's a world in which Punch gets completely forgotten in the spring. And I would not. I would not begrudge the Tony nominators that I would understand why that is. But I don't want anyone to feel like that means that everything about Punch was bad. There are things up. Punch that was. That were quite good.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Right.

[Jeff Malone]

And I think the lighting helped a lot.

[Richie Grasso]

I do think it will be forgotten, though, when it comes.

[Jeff Malone]

Probably. I'm probably.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah, maybe some of the lighting from Liberation, but I did have some issues sometimes with the back and forth between. Like, when you're supposed to realize what part of the timing that they're in. I didn't always think it matched with what they were trying to show. So that's why I would say, yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

I think the lighting and Liberation is probably the weakest thing for me. That and all the cigarette smoke. But, yeah, on the musical front, it's.

[Richie Grasso]

It's.

[Jeff Malone]

It's Chess, Two Strangers, Ragtime and Queen of Versailles, those are our contenders at the moment. I'm gonna put a note in for Two Strangers and for Ragtime.

[Matt Koplik]

Agreed.

[Jeff Malone]

We're so Ragtime. I will say the lighting, for me did so much heavy lifting.

[Matt Koplik]

It held the whole show together. I'm sorry. Other than the performances, I mean.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, but because, like, the set was. Was a nothing burger. And like, I. While I enjoyed the costumes, they weren't as helpful in sort of with the storytelling for me. As I said, you know, a lot of people were wearing the same costumes throughout, so it's hard to get a sense of timeline of what was going on. And lighting, I thought, was so helpful in terms of just focus. And also, I think, did a lot of heavy lifting with some of the staging. Like, it's numbers that were a park and mark or were just people walking across the stage were. So. Were elevated by the color and the mood and just helping you just see where everything went. And that was very impressive to me, especially because, as I. As I mentioned before, lighting had to go through a major overhaul during tech. They had to make a lot of changes really quickly. And so the fact that they were able to get it here by opening night, I think, is very impressive.

[Matt Koplik]

Even the floor. Not that the floor. Color matters always. Although, of course, for lighting designers, it was like a big black floor. You have to light these costumes on, like, a black surface as well. I mean, there's all these, like. I mean, even the mesh that would come down and hang. And I Always. And I said this in my episode too. Like, the fact that we can see the seam lines in the mesh. I'm like, what are we? I just. And that. And now how does the lighting designer hide that? Like, I feel. I feel for the Ragtime lighting designer.

[Jeff Malone]

Those hanging meshes that looked like they came straight from the bogs. I. I don't know.

[Matt Koplik]

Like, I couldn't believe that. Like, they even look, like, wrinkled. I'm like, are we good?

[Jeff Malone]

Like, are we good here? Vivian moma, like, straight from the swamp.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

They just came in and I was thinking a big, bright, beautiful world.

[Matt Koplik]

Very drunk. Yes.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. Very track.

[Richie Grasso]

I mean, I probably would put Ragtime in the middle of, like, it could get nominated. Maybe not. And then I definitely think two strangers will probably get the nomination.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. I think if there's a surprise here, it would be Chess, which, similar to Ragtime. Because the set is such a nothing burger for me, the lighting has to do a lot. But I don't think that the lighting in Chess is as. As intricate as with Ragtime. Like Chess, it's more sort of like bold color over the entire stage the entire time, and then Ragtime. I do think there's more detail oriented lighting happening. If I had one major complaint about the lighting with Ragtime is that it is often quite dimly lit. But that's also, as Richie was saying, it's a black stage and it's really hard to make everything light up on a black stage.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, yeah, I get it. So it's tough.

[Richie Grasso]

And I think some. I did get a little preview of what the scenic design's gonna look for Lost Boys. And I can only just imagine what the lighting's gonna be like in that show. So that's probably my one that I'm most excited to see. Oh, yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Set in lighting for the spring. I'm. I'm not even gonna entertain anything just because I have an idea of what could happen. And I just. At the moment, that way lies madness for me. So I'm gonna. While we have been pontificating on the future for some categories, lighting and set for musicals, right now, I just. I can't even entertain it right now.

[Richie Grasso]

All of this is going out the window as soon as we see it all.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

But I would say for set design, if there's one thing that I am absolutely staking my claim on, it's Queen of Versailles.

[Matt Koplik]

Yes.

[Jeff Malone]

That's going to get a scenic design nomination.

[Matt Koplik]

I really think so. Because it was incredible and Diane Laffrey is awesome in what they did with that. And I just thought it was just a Jellicoe ball.

[Jeff Malone]

Richie.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, and, yeah, and I also feel like the thing with Queen of Versailles, too, is I was seeing so many videos of the Boughs, so I knew what the set looked like at the end before I saw it. So that was kind of a spoiler for me. So when I saw the curtain rise at the beginning, or that, you know, Victorian wall rise, and I saw all this scaffolding, I'm like, oh, the actual set's back there. And this crew has to, like, strike all that at some point to reveal. So I just thought the set was very cool. Cool for that.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. I also had seen the final product at a curtain call, but the fact that the reveal at the end was still made an impact for me, I think is testament to the design of that show. I also. I also will say with Queen of Versailles, in terms of costume design, we know that William Ivy Long was, like, a ghost costume designer on that show. And I don't know how nominators are gonna feel about that. So I. That's something else where, like, I think it could happen, especially because we've. I think people forget that show has a lot of period costumes in it.

[Matt Koplik]

Right.

[Jeff Malone]

In addition to very specific, semi modern costumes for Jackie. So it still could happen. But if it doesn't get nominated, I think that there are nominators who are gonna feel icky about putting one in for someone who is not officially William Ivy Long, but we all know is William Ivey Long.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. And then also, I mean, if we really wanna sit here and consider nominating the door frame for Ragtime, that comes out as a whole mansion. I mean, give me a break, right? Like, absolutely. Absolutely not.

[Jeff Malone]

And again. And the swamp. Yeah, and the swamp.

[Matt Koplik]

And that poofy thing behind Casey.

[Jeff Malone]

And the Tampax commercial. It looks like she's in front of a giant maxi pad.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Yeah. That was lit beautifully. Again.

[Jeff Malone]

Red. And you're like, I'm it.

[Matt Koplik]

Now we're in.

[Jeff Malone]

Carrie, plug it up.

[Matt Koplik]

Isn't it? Isn't she? I don't know if she's technically on the beach in Atlantic City singing that song. I think technically, she might be.

[Jeff Malone]

That's usually where it's at. Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. So I'm like, okay, but you could have lit it like the ocean blues. And then it went red. And I'm like, I don't know. I just. Everything to me.

[Richie Grasso]

Not. Not scenic design.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Richie Grasso]

I did like the scenic design of two strangers, though. I thought it was kind of Cool and inventive of a different way of using the turntable. Bringing the things out of, you know, the luggage was kind of cool. So, like. Yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't like write it off. Off just yet.

[Jeff Malone]

I think. I think they have a really good shot at that. Again, we're not. I'm not entertaining spring options right now, but in terms of what we have in this moment, I think that Queen of Versailles and Two Strangers are absolute contenders for nominations. Yeah, Queen of Versailles. Just the massiveness of it that I also felt never went too much like, for a show that was so big. And I know a lot of people felt had not a lot of focus. I thought it didn't have a lot of focus. The design always made sense to me and Two Strangers. I also think that that set design was very creative. Maybe not the most attractive when you got into the theater, but then when you saw what it was doing throughout the performance, that was very well done for me. The fact that I'm such a slut for a turntable and I'm not here vouching for ragtime.

[Matt Koplik]

I love turntables so much because I feel like you could literally put a turntable into anything and somehow it works in some moment, in some way way. I love them.

[Jeff Malone]

The number of shows where I just went. A turntable could be really useful here right now. Waiting for Godot turntable.

[Matt Koplik]

I will also say, like, I wasn't around in the 80s when the original Les Mis, but I. Our elders of the world would tell us that that was a really groundbreaking thing for that to put a turntable in Les Mis was a big deal for people. I remember hearing people say that because.

[Jeff Malone]

With Les Mis, it was. It was a three part turntable is the thing. It's. It's what ha. Like what Hamilton has is what Les Mis has. Yes. And Les Mis, you. I mean, I think you can watch some of the original staging on YouTube. I know there's ever. Every bootleg alive of Les Mis is available somewhere. And I had seen the original production as a kid and then again when I was a teenager. And that staging remains one of the greatest stagings.

[Matt Koplik]

It's incredible that you can. I think that staging is brilliant. Yeah. But I think turntables. Yeah, that's. That's the saving grace of Ragtime. And it almost felt like we don't want to put any money into any scenery, but let's just put a turntable and like, that's what it felt like. Those conversations were like, it's more Of.

[Jeff Malone]

A donut, though, because the center doesn't matter move. It's just the outer rim. And for every time that I thought the turn that donut was used, well, again, it's like they would have one number went, oh, that was really good use of the donut. And then the next number, I was like, oh, that was. That's not how the donut should be used here.

[Matt Koplik]

But agreed. So.

[Richie Grasso]

All right.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

But no, the door frame for Ragtime and get nominated. Not. Not when we got. Not when we got Queen of Versailles. And it's massive set and we have two strangers that uses simplicity and a turntable really effectively. And then, you know, we've got stuff in the spring that's just really gonna fuck with our brain.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And then scene design of.

[Jeff Malone]

Yes.

[Matt Koplik]

Ooh, I was gonna say scene design of a play. We can go there.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, yeah. Talk to me, boys.

[Matt Koplik]

All right, let me go to that. Hold on. Turning the page. Scene design. Oh, here. I put Oedipus for this, too. I think that there's some cool stuff going on with that in those huge doors that moved in the different entrances on different levels. And I just like the glass and the use of, you know, it was a very sterile environment at the same time, but I think that totally worked and it helped pop the costumes and the blood at the end and all that. I think there was just pop because of the sterileness of the space.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah, I think Oedipus is definitely a contender there.

[Jeff Malone]

Oh, yeah, no, Oedipus is absolutely contender. Oh, I also meant to say, in terms of lighting, Little Bear Ridge Road, I would not be surprised if that got in that had some really gorgeous lighting for what was a very sparse set.

[Matt Koplik]

Agree.

[Jeff Malone]

You guys will see with Bug, I think Bug is going to get a set nomination. There's a really big. Yeah, there's a really big shift. That is very impressive. And just because I don't know what the rest of the spring will look like. But, yeah, I would. For me, I'm going to say Oedipus and Bug for sure. I wouldn't even be surprised if something like Marjorie prime got in for set design, which is, you know, maybe not elaborate, but it's very detail oriented. It's a very. It's a home set and it's very detail oriented. It does have a surprise in there towards the end. And I feel like with set design, especially with plays, they either go for really bold concepts like a Waiting for Godot, where you're basically in the tree, or they go for a super highly detailed set. Like a Marjorie Prime.

[Matt Koplik]

Totally.

[Richie Grasso]

I agree with that.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, I also think I'm looking at some other things from the season. Art was kind of cool, but it wasn't really anything nomination wise. But at least we had some like. Yeah, and Liberation. I, I, I know the lighting, I didn't mind that like side light wall that was kind of cool to see in the basketball hoop and all in the setting of this, like the detail work in the gym and stuff was kind of cool. But I mean, I don't think we.

[Richie Grasso]

Talked about a lot of the details that were in the set of Liberation.

[Matt Koplik]

The bleachers and all that. It was kind of cool. But also it wasn't really a utilized set. It was just kind of like it. Could it have been a backdrop? Sure. Because they didn't really use much of it other than chairs downstage the whole time, you know.

[Jeff Malone]

But I see, I do see World where Liberation gets nominated for that set again because it's so highly detail oriented. But if it doesn't, I'm not surprised. I'm not, I'm not confident enough to put a chip down and say, hey guys, remember this for the spring? But if I'm wrong about that, I'll be like, yeah, no, but I understand why I was wrong.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah, yeah. We're in a tough situation here. 11 plays are coming. So I think like Oedipus is the strong one that I would say would still. Let's remember that for, I mean, the.

[Jeff Malone]

Ballisters at Manhattan Theater Club in the spring. Watch that be the most beautiful, beautiful elaborate design we've ever seen. And Renee Lee Scoldsberry is coming out in like a 17th century dress.

[Matt Koplik]

Right, right, exactly, exactly. So you never know.

[Jeff Malone]

Okay, let's look at book of a musical. We only have three candidates right now as of this winter, we have two strangers. We have Queen of Versailles and we have choose.

[Matt Koplik]

Out a new book, right?

[Jeff Malone]

Yes, a brand new book by Danny Strong, so that's eligible. And we have had revivals with new books be nominated. We've had Douglas Carter Bean for Cinderella, David Henry Huang for Flower Drum Song. I think those are the only two of the last 40 years that that's happened. And then Hugh Wheeler, I know one for his book for Candide. I'm gonna go on a limb here and say that Danny Strong is not gonna get nominated for Choose.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, I've heard mixed things about that.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. The one thing I will say is that I, the book was never confusing to me.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay.

[Jeff Malone]

That Said, every minute since I have seen Chess, I have forgotten more and more what happened on the political end of that script. But when I was in the theater, I wasn't confused. I just didn't care. And then since I've left, I've just forgotten most of it. I just think that the arbiter narration sucks. But also. Yeah, that is a very divided thing because I, I spoke to a voter who actually thought that the narration was good and funny and clever. And I was like, you liked the RFK brainworm joke?

[Matt Koplik]

Oh God, yeah. Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

You liked the jokes about Biden and, and Trump. And he was like, well, you know. And I went, okay, here we are.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh God, yeah, here we are. I mean, I feel it. And that's why I feel like I think two strangers could definitely get at this point anyway, could get something as some clever writing. I think some of the jokes are really funny in that at times.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. I don't dislike the Book of Two Strangers. My two biggest issues with it, which I guess are rather fundamental, are I do think it's too long. I think it. The show is too long for the story it's trying to tell. And I don't buy the romance at the end.

[Matt Koplik]

I don't buy the romance at the end either. I agree with that. And everyone's like, so many people I know who saw it were like, but it's so cute. It's so cute. I'm like, that's great. It's cute. I don't also think that it's perfect. Like, I have a pro. The two things I have a problem with is, okay, I've said this on my podcast too. I feel like it's a light, loose plot of Elf. Like he comes to the city to look for his dad and he. And everyone does, and he's got this cheery, like, Right. I mean, sorry, it feels so elf to me. And I'm like, he's like this bright eyed, bushy tailed kid who loves New York. And they're all like, all right, relax, it's New York.

[Jeff Malone]

He's looking and he grows up at the end.

[Matt Koplik]

And yeah, so I don't know if that's purposely done or not, but there was that also. I'm like so hung up on the cake. And just like the whole like, they're not carrying a cake across New York the whole time like the title implies. And also, I never seen a wedding cake in four boxes where one would fall off. I've never seen a cake transported like that in my life. So I don't know, I'm.

[Jeff Malone]

I guess it's something I, I, I, the way I viewed it was, and this was me doing heavy lifting for a show that did not help itself. But I would imagine that it was a, the situation was the tears were separate and were going to be assembled in the on the day. But also, like, I've never heard of that before.

[Matt Koplik]

Never a baker would maybe, maybe transport it like that. Also, if the dad's mega loaded with AMEX cards galore and there was blowing all this money, they couldn't afford a cake to be put together and transported like, I'm not understanding the lid and I know that this is musical, okay.

[Jeff Malone]

But yes, people, but it's cute. You know what's also cute? Paddington 2. And that is an hour and 40 and airtight and perfectly written.

[Matt Koplik]

I'm hearing that. It's incredible.

[Jeff Malone]

Well, I'm not even talking about Paddington the musical. I'm talking about Paddington 2 the Movie.

[Matt Koplik]

Movie. I see.

[Jeff Malone]

I'm looking forward. I can't speak on the musical yet. By the time this episode comes out, I will have seen it. My life will have changed for good.

[Matt Koplik]

But I think it will because every single person who I know has gone from all ends of the earth have said that they've been changed by Paddington the musical.

[Jeff Malone]

So I, I can't wait. I'm going to cry from start to finish. But film, Richie, is a perfectly written screenplay and it's an hour and 40 minutes and it's just simp. And it's just so cute on the list.

[Matt Koplik]

I haven't even seen the first one.

[Jeff Malone]

Full disclosure, I know the first one is, is delightful. The second one is perfect.

[Matt Koplik]

Perfect.

[Jeff Malone]

There's. I can't even explain it, but I love adding to Strangers. Two Strangers, for me, is a perfect example of sort of how musicals kind of work, which is if something works for you, all of the flaws don't really matter because the overall impact is so strong. And if it doesn't work for you, all you see are the flaws.

[Matt Koplik]

Exactly.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

That was good.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. And Two Strangers is a musical that I enjoyed mostly, but I had to work hard to get get there. And it overall did not impact me in a way where I was able to let go of the issues. And I think that the show just does have issues.

[Matt Koplik]

That's nailing the head. Exactly.

[Jeff Malone]

The thing that I can't begrudge the show is like the fandom of it is such that when you, when you try, like, try to bring up this stuff, the fandom is like, no it's perfect, it's brilliant, and there's nothing wrong with it. And I'm like, okay, well, then we're done here. And now I'm actually kind of hating.

[Matt Koplik]

The show because you're, like, taking the words right out of my mouth.

[Richie Grasso]

That's exactly. Like when we were talking about Two Strangers, I was saying this will become the cult musical of the season because it will create this cult fan base that just loves it no matter what, and it's fine. But if this was last season, the show would not be doing the same thing at all.

[Jeff Malone]

The show would have closed by now if this were last season. Oh, yeah. And would not be remembered at the Tonys probably at all. And it's not because the show is just so good. It's because mean Last season was a very dense season of musicals. And the reason why Two Strangers is kind of keeping itself open right now is a. I know that it's relatively cheap to run, especially in the grand scheme of how expensive everything is right now. They have figured out a budget that they're able to kind of keep going for a while. And because they're looking at the spring and, and unless Lost Boys or Titanic or Schmuckadoon really kind of nails it, they have a really good shot at winning the big, big awards and they can run for a year and make their money back and call it a day.

[Richie Grasso]

Right. But it's, yeah, it's really like piggybacking off of like the maybe happy ending as well. So it's like right place, right time for the show.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, no, they, they're very fortunate with their timing. The. But yeah, I, I think that they have book at the moment locked and loaded. I feel like Titanic is so stupid and I don't know if enough voters will sign off on the stupidity of, of it. But I don't see how the fans of Shucked and the fans of and Juliet can see Titanic and then not fall in love with Titanic.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

So I, I, I'm, I know we, we're kind of being loose about how we're much, we're talking about the spring right now. But like, I'm looking at Titanic going, I know. I think that or even Schmigadoon, like, could come in and eat up Two strangers.

[Matt Koplik]

Totally. I think Schmigadoon has a chance. I thought there was some great dialogue in the script. If they're going to take the Apple TV script and just expand. I know it just had an out of town in Kennedy and maybe they're even Doing more from that. But I just feel like Schmigadoon has a. There's like a heart to Schmigadoon and there's like a message to be said about it. I think if they wanted to really expand on that more with some book writing. Unless they just keep it really surface y, like this is a silly spoof on golden age. I don't know what they're gonna do.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. I wonder if once we have more musicals playing in the spring, if the luster of Two Strangers being the only viable candidate of the winter will dim a bit for people. I wonder something to consider as of right now. Yeah, like it's score, book, musical. It's like locked in those nominations. What happens later, we'll see. But that's where we're at for that.

[Richie Grasso]

And I will say at this point though too that it hasn't really got to the level of what maybe happy ending was doing by now.

[Jeff Malone]

Oh no, that's the thing people talk about maybe happy ending of. Well, they were struggling up until the Tony Awards. I'm like, no, they were struggling all through previews and then like the first month of their run. But also you look at the grosses for maybe happy ending and it always kept going up. Maybe not by hundreds of thousands of dollars every week, but like every week it would go up enough that it like there was momentum going. And so they were in a safe space by New Year's. And Two Strangers really only has had two money making weeks since it opened.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, this week will be telling now that the holidays are over too.

[Jeff Malone]

Absolutely. And while they got decent reviews, they did not get the reviews that maybe happy ending got outside of their critics pick. No one really raved about the musical. It's. It's again, as, as you were saying, Richie, it was a lot of like, it's cute. It's cute.

[Matt Koplik]

And that's all I can keep saying. And I'm like, I don't know what else to say about it.

[Jeff Malone]

But that's. I mean, that's what I've been saying about it. But it's more in response. When people go, it's so charming, I respond with no, oh, it's cute.

[Matt Koplik]

There's a right, right. It's cute. It's like a Disney Pixar movie on steroids.

[Jeff Malone]

A little bit. A little bit. Okay, so let's look at direction, both play and musical.

[Richie Grasso]

Which one first?

[Jeff Malone]

I'll say musical first just because I do think that Two Strangers will get nominated here as well. I do think Ragtime in director at the moment, I'm going to say a nomination, but it is so not locked. And I really don't know how to tell people how not locked it is.

[Matt Koplik]

I can't remember if. If Lear was nominated for into the Woods.

[Jeff Malone]

She was.

[Richie Grasso]

I feel like here's what I'm going to go out on the limb and say. I would like to see her not get nominated in this category, because I feel like a lesson kind of needs to be made and say, like, hey, you can be this great person at Lincoln center, but hire directors.

[Matt Koplik]

Or not. I know you're saying, yeah, like, don't hire directors for the shows and be artistic directors still.

[Richie Grasso]

Yes.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

I wonder. I wonder. I wonder how much word has gotten out about the rehearsal and tech process for Ragtime, because if it has, that does damage her chances, because they are not good stories about her, not as a person or as a director.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah, I'm sure those stories are out, from what I've heard.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I really didn't want. I don't want this to be like a Lear bashing podcast.

[Matt Koplik]

No, no.

[Jeff Malone]

I've said this before. I think what Lear Debessinet has in spades is I think she's got really great taste in material. She picks really good stuff. I think her first. I think her first season at Lincoln Center Theater has proven to be a successful one with. With Ragtime and Kyoto and Amal and the Night Visitors. Like, I think she picks good stuff. I don't think she is a director.

[Matt Koplik]

And also saying too kind of going over to Mark Arden with Queen of Versailles. He's always. Almost always been nominated, and he's won a few times now, a couple Tonys. And so this could be an opportunity where maybe he's nominated for Lost Boys and not Queen of Versailles. I don't. I don't envision him getting a nomination for Queen of Russia.

[Jeff Malone]

No, that's not happening. And I don't think that Mayor is happening for Chess either. For Juice. I don't. It's just. That's just not happening. I think that what's helping Lear's case right now is that Two Strangers and Ragtime are just really the only viable options of the winter. It's possible, like, again, we can have, like, a gypsy situation where it gets the revival nomination, but not the director nomination.

[Matt Koplik]

Right, right. Very true.

[Jeff Malone]

And then.

[Matt Koplik]

All right, well, let's see what director of a play holds up to here.

[Jeff Malone]

Also. I feel like we're saying this now, and then they'll get all These nominations in the spring, and we're going to be labeled as such haters, and we're not. And it'll be.

[Matt Koplik]

It's just so hard when the way the season falls because, again, we'll always.

[Richie Grasso]

Be labeled as haters.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Do you know what I mean? It's more sort of. I always want people to kind of be on their guard of. Just because something seems so obvious now. You don't know what's going to happen in the spring. And I think I. Yeah, I. If anything, I more kind of just want to emphasize the. Like the stories that have come out about that process. That's. That is really more than anything what I feel like will be a deterrent. But.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, we move on from there. Okay. So we did choreography. We did book score. I think now we just have the performances. Right.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, we have director of a play.

[Jeff Malone]

Still a director of play. Yes. Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

So call me as the art punch Waiting for Godo. Little Marriage Road Liberation. I mean, this.

[Jeff Malone]

Call me Izzy. Right. It's with a bullet.

[Matt Koplik]

Please don't even get me started on that. I. I did not. Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

No, it's Jean. Jean Smart should be given a Nobel Peace Prize for the herculean effort she did. Yeah, I'm gonna. At the moment, I'm gonna say Liberation and Oedipus. Yeah, those are my locks. Right now. I am wondering with Little Bear Ridge Road, because Mantello's got Salesman in the spring. And if Salesman works, that would be.

[Matt Koplik]

If Salesman works.

[Jeff Malone]

If Salesman works, that would be his nomination.

[Matt Koplik]

I think there's a high chance it works because of Nathan and Laurie on it. I think there's a really high chance that it works, but I don't know because that show isn't done a lot.

[Jeff Malone]

It's in such a big theater.

[Matt Koplik]

It's in a big theater. And I also just really kind of wish we were getting that who's Afraid of Virginia?

[Jeff Malone]

Don't we all wish it was just that.

[Matt Koplik]

I just. I. Jeff has yet to see the movie, and I still think the Liz Taylor performance in the movie. I know. Is like one of the greatest Hollywood. I know. I'm trying to get him to watch the movie, which is brilliant. And I'm. When I. And I wasn't one of the couple hundred people that saw one of the four previews of it before it closed and shipped out here with COVID But I just love that script so much. I think that's a great play.

[Richie Grasso]

But anyway, I do think Oedipus and Liberation are probably like Two that are the big contenders there. Do you think they're gonna leave out Jamie Lloyd?

[Jeff Malone]

Yes. My God, why is that even a question?

[Richie Grasso]

I'm just saying. Do you think they're gonna leave him out? I'm just saying they're gonna leave him out.

[Matt Koplik]

Absolutely.

[Jeff Malone]

They're leaving him out.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Yeah. And I also, I mean, like, you know, I don't really see, like, Scott Ellis for Art getting nominated for. There's nothing really much going on with that.

[Jeff Malone]

No, that ain't happening either. I, I, I think the only, so I. Oedipus and, and Liberation, I think, yes. The only ones right now that I think we can entertain the idea of would be Marjorie prime in Little Bear Ridge Road. I'm not even going to say bug. I just, I, I think that Cromer, while he's super, well, like, this, is not his best work. And again, we've got, in the spring, we've got every brilliant thing. Giant Dog Day Afternoon, Becky Shaw, Death of a Salesman, Pru, Fallen Angels, the Ballisters, Joe Turner's Coming, Gone.

[Matt Koplik]

So much, so many things. I know, and I'm sure many of.

[Jeff Malone]

Them are going to be perfectly mediocre. But, but we just need three.

[Matt Koplik]

Right.

[Jeff Malone]

And, like, so Giant, I think we're Giant, I think is happening because it's so well regarded from London. They love the British imports. It's Heitner. Nicholas Heiner's directing it. He's very well liked. If Salesman Works, I think that's where Mantello gets in. Proof will see. I don't have a lot of.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, the only thing I can say is it's Tommy Kail directing.

[Jeff Malone]

So maybe what gives me faith is that Proof is a good play and the casting is really strong. Kale does not inspire a lot of people.

[Matt Koplik]

Not being nominated for the direction of Sweeney Todd was a snob. I will. I thought that was a snub.

[Jeff Malone]

You thought it was a snub that.

[Matt Koplik]

He didn't even get a nomination for the direction of Sweeney personally, why do.

[Jeff Malone]

You think that was a snub?

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, we could go on and on about this now.

[Jeff Malone]

Why do, why do we just, why did we speak so much about Lear with, with Ragtime? And yet Tommy K. I think there are just certain moments that is sexism. Richie. I would, I would argue those are two people in the same boat.

[Matt Koplik]

No, I, listen, I, and I know Tommy's on the coattails of Hamilton. Right? Like being on this, like, this is his big, big thing. I get that. Right. I thought there were moments of Sweeney that were dark, that were cool. The. The. The jumping in and out of the floor was kind of cool. Like, there was some moments. This is cool.

[Jeff Malone]

But they come out of the floor in Rag time.

[Matt Koplik]

I. I know they do it a.

[Jeff Malone]

Lot slower, but they come out of there.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, we'll see what he does with. With.

[Jeff Malone]

I'm. I'm mostly giving you. But also, I've been very vocal on this podcast that I don't think Kale did a goddamn thing with Sweeney Todd other than the jump out of. The jump in and out of the floor. I called that. No Trigger Sweeney, no blood, no dirt, no danger. And I don't consider his lack of a nomination a snub. I consider his lack of a nomination appropriate. And. And. And if. If I just spent enough time talking about my issues with Lear's direction for Ragtime, I am going to be even keel here and say it's not sexism on my part, because I can say the same goddamn thing about Tommy Kale.

[Matt Koplik]

No, I don't think it's perfect. I think since Hamilton, I think it's been tough to kind of. Yeah, we'll see what he does with the public now. He's gonna do a play, you know, not a musical.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, well, his. His. Anna Christie at St. Anne's got a critics pick from the same woman who gave a critics pick to Queen of Versailles. So take that as you will.

[Matt Koplik]

We'll see what that's. Actually, listen, I totally get it. Like, Right. We should be.

[Jeff Malone]

No, no, but I hear you. No, you enjoyed what he did with Sweeney Todd, so you're standing by that opinion, and you're allowed full disclosure.

[Matt Koplik]

Don't have a ton of experience with Sweeney, so that was my first time seeing a sage production of it, so I'm also.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, you're welcome. That was. That's a good intro to Sweeney Todd because they only gave you two fingers, not the full fish.

[Matt Koplik]

I will say that the. I. I don't think the movie is good at all. And so I had low expectations going in because I don't like the movie.

[Jeff Malone]

Oh, I love the movie, but the movie is a terrible representation of the show. The movie is its own entity.

[Matt Koplik]

Like, it's its own thing. Right?

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. But we have, like, nine different recordings of the stage show on video, so I'm like, let the movie be the weird stepsister. It's fine.

[Matt Koplik]

I need to go do some homework on that.

[Jeff Malone]

Okay. But. So, yeah, I. I do not. Unless proof is fantastic. I just don't think that Cale's getting in there. But I think that, like, Joe Turner's coming gone is a super huge option because that's such a fascinating Wilson play. The only thing is that it is directed by Debbie Allen, who does not have the world's best stage record.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

As a director. But, you know, things. Things can happen.

[Matt Koplik]

We also have Kenny Leon's doing Ballisters.

[Richie Grasso]

I was gonna say. What's Kenny Leon directing?

[Matt Koplik]

He's always. Every season he's got Kenny Leon directing every season. Good for him because he's always working him and. And David Cromer is always working too. I don't know.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. Every season there's always something. I. I will say the fact that this is Leon's only show this season is a little more exciting to me. He's. He can give a little more focus on something.

[Richie Grasso]

Agreed.

[Jeff Malone]

Give it.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Also, like, we have no Casey Nicholaw this season. Like, some names. Really? Every season. I feel like we see. And I'm like, okay, yeah, no Bart.

[Jeff Malone]

Share this season either.

[Matt Koplik]

And also the director of Hell's Kitchen, forgetting his name.

[Jeff Malone]

Oh, Michael Greif.

[Matt Koplik]

Michael Greif. I feel like we always see him on, but we don't see him in our.

[Jeff Malone]

I do want to give a quick shout out to Anne Kaufman for Marjorie prime, who. I don't think it will happen for her on this one, unfortunately, but she is well liked. She has been nominated before and her work on Marjorie prime is so exquisite with the actors that if she does get in, it would be like a cost of living situation where the ensemble work is so good. Good. And because she has such a strong reputation as an actor's director, that could happen. But I think because there are so many options in the spring and Mar. Drew prime will be closed, I think, by. Yeah, by mid February. So we'll. Yeah, we'll see. I think that Oedipus is. And Liberation right now are two winter warriors.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Finding a good fight.

[Matt Koplik]

All right, performances. Should we do play first?

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, let's do play. Featured actor and actress.

[Richie Grasso]

Okay.

[Matt Koplik]

Featured actor and actress and supporting and leading. Let's see. We'll do some featured role. So best performance by an actress in a featured role in a play. I actually had put Betsy Aidem for Liberation. I really enjoyed her performance. I know Victoria Clark's up there, too, for Punch as a possibility. But Betsy for me over Victoria.

[Jeff Malone]

I think this is where I have to tell everyone. Vicky Clark is so lovely in Punch and she's not. Not getting nominated. And we have to Accept it.

[Matt Koplik]

I think you're right. I think you're right.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

But with the 9, 000 women from liberation, not to mention, I. I don't know what's gonna happen with Marjorie prime if June Squibbin. Cynthia Nixon will be considered both featured or one of them is going to be considered lead. You'll see for yourself. June Squibb is, technically speaking, the. The lead role, but she's not in it a lot. She. She makes up the first half a lot. And then Cynthia Nixon takes over the second half half. And so I don't know if they'll be co leads or co featured. Okay. But whichever categories they're in, I. I hope they both get in because Nixon is. Nixon is so phenomenal in Marjorie Prime.

[Matt Koplik]

I can't wait to see. That's great to know.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah. We don't have a lot for this category right now, I think.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. I think of Liberation, Betsy Item is probably the one who has the best shot of getting in. I would then maybe say. Here's the thing. Kayla Davion in Liberation really only has the one big scene in Act 2, and it's a great scene.

[Matt Koplik]

I thought of that. I know.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. And it's you. Makes you wonder, is this gonna be a performance where. Because it has the one big showcase moment, that's enough. Or is it not quite enough? You know what I mean?

[Richie Grasso]

I feel like it's enough if we, like, go back to like, like sign in Sydney Brustein's window. And like, that was enough for the supporting.

[Matt Koplik]

Who won that?

[Richie Grasso]

Oh, that.

[Matt Koplik]

She won for the one scene. Right. Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Well, no, she. She had more than that scene.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, yeah, but I mean, she was. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's kind of like Anne Hathaway winning for the Academy Award. I mean, and for one song and one lay. I mean, that. It's like, sometimes all it takes is one.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. Sometimes all takes is the one. And I will say with Kayla Davion, like, it helps that her big thing is later on in the show. Miriam Silverman is. Who won. Yes, but.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, but.

[Jeff Malone]

But Mavis and Sign and Cindy Bruste's window, again, like, she had. She has like, she had three scenes and it's. And she obviously won for, like, her big monologue telling all of them that they were like, you may be liberal, but you're awful. And. And she just so ate that. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

That was amazing.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, I think so. I. I would say for me. Yeah. If it's outside of Betsy, Adam, Kayla Davion is one that I just. She's on my brain because of how that role is set up and everyone in that show is wonderful. It's a phenomenal ensemble. But it is hard to figure out who to pick after that. I think what helps with Betsy is that she's a previous nominee. People know her. I also have it on good authority that Kayla Davion might be coming back next season. So maybe things will be floating around when nominations happen.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah, I think they probably had the two like as the supporting roles in that show the most interesting part later on in the show for them like reenacting. So I think that's where it might separate them from the rest of the cast because they are all kind of on the same level of really great acting.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. I also don't know what's going to happen with Laurie Metcalfe with Death of a Salesman if the production will be such that it emphasizes Linda and she. And she'll feel like a co lead because up until the last production Linda has always been in featured.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, always. I know.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. The Sharon D. Clark production was the first one where Linda was considered a lead and I. And I think there's enough of Linda that she can be a lead but it all is a matter of the angle of the production. So I don't know what they're going to do with this but she totally. But yeah. So I'm. Lori Metcalf is just that she's a little asterisk. I also with proof Samira Wiley could absolutely get in for that. That's a great role. And who the knows with the balusters. I also don't know what's gonna happen with Giant. They've got some great women in that. But I don't know what those roles are. So.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. And I'm assuming in the Fallen Angels those are both co leads. Kelly and Roseburn. I'm assuming.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. I would. I would imagine that those are co leads also. And shout out to Anne Reed in Oedipus. I know that June squibs 96 but Anne Reid is 90 and she's. She also has a really phenomenal track where she comes in at the top and makes an impression and then makes it comes back towards the end to make another great impression. So I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up seeing her as well.

[Matt Koplik]

She's.

[Jeff Malone]

She's. She's June Squib and Kayla Davion and combined.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh my God. There's a lot. I mean it'll be anybody's game at this Point, you know.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, I think that, yeah. Featured actress in a play. It's so crowded that truly the nomination will be the award because there's, there's going to be a lot of women who will be unrecognized and we want to. Yeah, we'll do. I'll do an episode for like the Fallen who don't get nominated.

[Matt Koplik]

Yes, that's good.

[Jeff Malone]

Shout them out. Featured actor in a play. It's, it's a little more sparse. I think Danny bursting to Marjorie prime has a good shot here. I hate to say it. I think James Corden. Art has a good shot here.

[Matt Koplik]

Sure, totally. And do.

[Richie Grasso]

Do they fall in as featured, all three of them? Okay. Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

I think the original. They were all considered featured and I would imagine it's going to be the same for this.

[Matt Koplik]

Yep.

[Richie Grasso]

Okay.

[Matt Koplik]

We had, we had put the.

[Richie Grasso]

So I think James Gordon could definitely.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. For sure. I also thought the Michael Patrick Thornton as Lucky and Waiting for Godo was good and I thought he could be considered maybe. I, I, There's Pozzo and Lucky. I thought Lucky was. I thought he has that really great monologue and I, I just maybe.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. You know, I mean, John Glover was nominated years ago for playing Lucky and for me, Brandon J. Dean as Poto was, was really the standout performance and I would probably nominate him.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Richie Grasso]

What do you think about that?

[Matt Koplik]

I thought he was okay. I thought. I'm not. I just feel like it was fine. No, that whole production to me was.

[Jeff Malone]

I didn't think he was. I think he was perfect. I thought he was the best one in the show.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, maybe that. Yeah, yeah, it's.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, because it's not going to be Keanu, I'm telling you that much. But no, no, there's also John Carroll lynch for Oedipus could also happen. But ultimately, actually, I could have sworn that Art. They determined that they were all unfeatured. Am I making this up?

[Matt Koplik]

I, I have not heard, so I don't know.

[Richie Grasso]

I, I thought they were leading, but I.

[Jeff Malone]

Let me look. Sorry, let me look this up again because I, I could have sworn they did. Did an announcement.

[Matt Koplik]

They.

[Jeff Malone]

Because they didn't they do one announcement already?

[Richie Grasso]

They did, but I don't. Did Art.

[Matt Koplik]

I don't know if that was considered in there or not. That's hard.

[Jeff Malone]

You know, I'm looking this up. I'm looking this up now. Well, Will Harrison is considered lead for Punch and then. Oh, no, I guess they're all going to be considered lead because they're all above the title. Never mind. I take that back, everybody. Okay.

[Richie Grasso]

Because I put them in our leading category, so maybe I did my research.

[Jeff Malone]

I'm so sorry, everyone. I'm so sorry. Okay.

[Matt Koplik]

All right, well then. Well, I guess we'll see. I mean, I also think that changes.

[Richie Grasso]

Things up here too, because, like, we still don't have a ton of the, like, featured actor. Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

I think this is where Joe Turner's come and gone is gonna dine out because there are a lot of featured roles in that play.

[Matt Koplik]

Yep.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

And I don't know how they're going to balance it out in Dog Day Afternoon if they. They're going to be co Leads, those two or if one's more of a featured. Also, Death of His Salesman. We got the two, bro. The two sons, Lucky and. And Biff. Those tend to do well.

[Matt Koplik]

Yes, they do.

[Richie Grasso]

And for things that we've seen right now, I would put Charlie Thurston in there for Liberation. Just because.

[Jeff Malone]

Thurston. Thurston.

[Matt Koplik]

I cannot.

[Jeff Malone]

What? He's a handsome man.

[Matt Koplik]

He is, yes. He's only in one, two scenes, but.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah, but hey, I'm saying for we've seen, I would. He would get nominated, right?

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. I'm going to use the same thing I said in Natasha Pierre when we were talking about flooding the basement. Ain't no underground in Louisiana. There is only underwater flooded basement.

[Matt Koplik]

All right, so we go to lead actress and actor in a play. Let's go to female first actress in a leading role in a play. I mean, I am putting Leslie Manville here. So far, I think that's probably the strongest contender. I mean, I definitely know you have Jean Smart and Lori Metcalf. This category currently as well. Susanna Flood as Lizzie in Liberation could also be considered leading, I would assume.

[Jeff Malone]

Yes, she's considered lead. I think that as of right now, Laurie for Little Bear Ridge Road, Susanna Flood for Liberation, Carrie Coon for Bug and who's the other one? We're saying? Oh, and Leslie Manville for Oedipus. Those are. Those are all going to be fighting for it in the spring. We'll see what happens with Becky Shaw and Pruitt, Proof and Fallen Angel. Fallen Angels? Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, I think Roseburn and Kelly o' Hara alone are going to be. If they're great and they're big names, I think that's hard.

[Jeff Malone]

It also, it's going to help that Rose Byrne is going to be coming off of an Oscar nomination, possibly a win by that point. So there's gonna be a lot of buzz with that. So. Yeah, yeah. Taraji P. Henson and Joe Turner. She'll be considered featured. That's a featured role.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

We'll see what happens. Lori Metcalf with Death of a Salesman. I think it. There's are if they are Smart, they will petition her as featured so she get two nominations than one year.

[Matt Koplik]

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I also think like I do. I do see a world where Jean.

[Jeff Malone]

Smart is completely snubbed's not getting in at this point. It's. We've had. We have too many strong contenders in better shows for Jean Smart to be in there. I mean, listen, great, as. As good as Carrie Coon is in Bug, like there's a world in which she doesn't get in. I mean, because I, I, I or even Susanna Flood. I really think that Leslie Manville right now, now is the only one that I'm just putting such money down of. It's happening. She's getting nominated. She could possibly even win. No matter what happens in the spring.

[Matt Koplik]

She was amazing on that. I totally agree. And then actually that leads into actor and leading role in a play because I do have Mark Strong up as a definite leading contender 1,000%. I mean, I know all the art guys are up there too.

[Jeff Malone]

All the, all, all the art men. Now that I know their lead, they're all getting in.

[Matt Koplik]

I mean, I know they're all.

[Richie Grasso]

They're not getting.

[Matt Koplik]

I don't see. Yeah, I mean, mean, I, I don't see Alex or Keanu for Waiting for Godo really up there either.

[Richie Grasso]

If it was, if I was giving it to Juan, it would be Alex.

[Matt Koplik]

Alex over Keanu.

[Jeff Malone]

But yeah, yeah, I think that with the spring with Daniel Radcliffe and John Lithgow and the Two Dog Day Afternoon gentlemen and Nathan Lane for Death of a Salesman, I don't know how Cheadle's going to be considered for proof. I think he'll be considered featured, but I don't know.

[Matt Koplik]

Like that's, that'll probably be featured, I think.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, I think, I think we're looking at Mark Strong and Mark Strong alone from the winter. Maybe, maybe I'm having some ayahuasca right now. Like maybe Will Harris Harrison for Punch just because it's such a large central role. But I think that's a. I think that would be Punch's only real chance.

[Matt Koplik]

I also still kind of go back to what you said earlier. There's a chance that we just have Punch completely forgotten overall, the whole production, unfortunately.

[Jeff Malone]

But you know, it's not A punch. It's a swing and a miss. Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Right upon.

[Richie Grasso]

And then would he, he would be lead.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, my God. For Little Bear Ridge Road.

[Richie Grasso]

Would he be leading?

[Jeff Malone]

He would be lead. I don't, I don't know see that happening, but I, I, I know people who really enjoyed that performance. I did not, but it's it. I think he has a better chance than Will Harrison. I Will Harrison. I will say that.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

But I just think that there are too many big, big dogs in, in the spring that I, I, I just think it's Mark Strong and that's the only one who's around it.

[Matt Koplik]

If we go to musicals. Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

Featured actor and actress in a musical also kind of a little open.

[Matt Koplik]

Well, yeah, if we go act featured actors in a musical so far, I mean, I think, I think Nichelle Lewis has a good chance of being nominated for Ragtime Shayna Talb maybe two. But I think Nichelle maybe gets that nomination over.

[Jeff Malone]

I think it's, yeah, I think Nichelle's the only one in Ragtime in that category that I would, would, yeah. Put money down. I don't think it's gonna happen, but I just want to put it in nominators minds right now to consider Hannah Cruz for chess. Just do it. Just do it.

[Matt Koplik]

That's so excited to see what she's doing. What's. She has a number in the show, right?

[Jeff Malone]

She's, she only really has one. She has, she has, I know him so well with, with Leah. Oh, but she's playing Svetlana. She plays the wife. She, she shows up for Act 2. And as I said in my review, she's the only one in the show for me who a is playing a character that I genuinely watch. And I go, oh, you're a human being who's fucked before. Whereas everyone else. I go, I don't know where, what world you're coming from. But also I watched her in that show. I went, oh, you're the one who went, I'm in chess and I will be giving you chess.

[Richie Grasso]

Okay, good.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay.

[Jeff Malone]

So I think she shows up. And I went, oh, we have a woman now. But yeah, I would like them to consider her. I do think Michelle has a, has a strong shot.

[Matt Koplik]

I wish Melody Butu's role in Queen of Her Eye was bigger. I thought that could have been. She's, I don't think it's, I don't see her getting nominated, but it would have been nice if they gave her a whole song or something.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, she had, she had that, that really nice monologue, but otherwise, I think, yeah, she'll probably get forgotten. We'll see what happens with Jellico Ball and with Lost Boys and with Shmiga Doon. From what I understand, Shigadun has a lot of featured actress chances.

[Matt Koplik]

Totally.

[Richie Grasso]

Yeah.

[Jeff Malone]

I also. I asked a friend of mine who's working on Lost Boys, I went, is Shoshana being a lead or she a featured? Because Diane Wiese is really a supporting role in the movie. And they said that she. Based on how the role is written for the musical, she could be considered lead. But she also. I think they're figuring out what her best option would be, and I think feature would be a better option for her.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Because it's kind of light right now.

[Richie Grasso]

We'll have Deborah Cox as feature.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, yeah, she'd probably be. Yeah, no, she would be.

[Richie Grasso]

Never Cox.

[Jeff Malone]

I mean, we'll see what happens with Rose and Titanique, especially if the current rumor of who might be playing Rose on Broadway is true.

[Matt Koplik]

No, it was announced. Jim Parsons.

[Jeff Malone]

No, that's Ruth.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, Ruth. Oh, my God. I'm totally.

[Jeff Malone]

Rose.

[Richie Grasso]

Rose.

[Jeff Malone]

There's a rumor about who's going to be playing Rose.

[Matt Koplik]

Oh, there's a. That's right.

[Richie Grasso]

Wait, can we hear the rumor?

[Jeff Malone]

Let's just say she's known for being rather pitch perfect.

[Richie Grasso]

Oh.

[Jeff Malone]

And she's never every. She finishes every drink she has because she needs to play the cup.

[Matt Koplik]

I see. Interesting.

[Richie Grasso]

You got it.

[Jeff Malone]

That is the rumor.

[Matt Koplik]

I got it, I got it, I got it.

[Jeff Malone]

You know what they say about rumors, though.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, true. If we go to actor in a.

[Richie Grasso]

Feature, but there would definitely be a.

[Matt Koplik]

Ton of feature for Titanic and Schoon.

[Jeff Malone]

I think Schmigadoon more than Titanic. Titanique, I think, is really just Molly Brown. That's a featured female role. Because there's actually a lot of options for featured actor in a musical there. California, Ruth, the Iceberg. I think those are all genuine featured roles.

[Richie Grasso]

Definitely Schmigadoon. And if any of them. Like, if MacKenzie Kurtz transfers, where is she going?

[Matt Koplik]

Because she. Pretty quickly.

[Jeff Malone]

She loves Heather's. I think she loves Heather's to do Springadoon. Don't quote me on that. I might be wrong.

[Richie Grasso]

If that happens, I'll be very happy.

[Matt Koplik]

Because she would be hilarious.

[Richie Grasso]

Wear stands over here.

[Jeff Malone]

And I heard she was great in D.C. so, yeah, that would be a nice option.

[Matt Koplik]

And then I don't know who's playing the jinx. I say it based on the Apple tv. I know Jane Krakowski had an awesome feature. Featured, but I don't know who's playing that.

[Jeff Malone]

But that was season two, wasn't it? Oh, no. She's this. In season one.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. She comes to the town and has this big number, but I don't know who's doing that on Broadway yet.

[Jeff Malone]

I don't know either. They've only announced that Alex Brightman and Sarah Chase are in it. They haven't announced anyone else yet. Featured actor. So from Chester is Bryce Pinkham and Bradley Dean. There's F. Murray Abraham. From Queen of Versailles, Ragtime. There's Ben Levi Ross and Colin Donnell. Of all of these guys, I'm gonna say Bryce Pinkham and Ben Levi Ross have the best shot. Similar to what I did before, like, with. With Jellicoe Ball, with Rocky Horror, with Lost Boys and with Schmigadoon and even Titanic. Like, I think those are going to come in and sort of flood the options pretty soon.

[Matt Koplik]

I had thought F. Murray for maybe leading, but I guess he would be supporting.

[Jeff Malone]

He isn't. He isn't supporting. I think he's been deemed supporting. Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

Ben has more to do in Ragtime than Colin. I thought Colin was good, but Colin doesn't have a ton to do doing that.

[Jeff Malone]

Father exists to be racist. And for the audience to go, you're racist. Oh, sorry, I haven't. I have a phone call. One second, gentlemen.

[Matt Koplik]

You're good. You're good. Take your time.

[Jeff Malone]

Okay, I have to. We have to. We have to wrap things up soon. Sorry. My director exists to be racist. I don't think Colin's getting in. I think Ben has a better shot because that's the better role. But I. I think. See, I would say right now the only one that I would say to remember to keep tabs on is Ben. But I don't. I don't totally buy that. Lead actress in a musical at the moment. We got Kristen, Casey, Leah, Christiana Pitts, Christine, Cheryl for Mamma Mia. I'm gonna say Casey's. In case he's in. And I think Kristen is.

[Matt Koplik]

I don't.

[Jeff Malone]

I think she's on the bubble.

[Matt Koplik]

She's gonna be like Idina from last season and be forgotten. I think. I hate to say that, but I think she's gonna. And then also Cristiani, maybe. I'm sure Leah's getting a nominee. I haven't seen Chess yet, but I'm sure Leah. Leah's getting a nomination.

[Jeff Malone]

I mean, I don't know if Leah's getting in.

[Matt Koplik]

Really. That's a bold statement.

[Jeff Malone]

It is a very bold Statement, I think. Sorry. I think with. With Jessica Vosk and Marla Mandel and Sarah Chase and. And possibly Shoshana Bean. Like, I don't know. I think Leah has a shot, but I. I also. I just. I'm not sure Leah's getting it.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll see. And Casey, I think. Yeah, that's in. In for sure.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. Actor in a musical, I think Joshua Henry, for sure.

[Matt Koplik]

I'm for sure. I think, actually, I could go so far as to say I think he could win it.

[Jeff Malone]

I think he's got a very good shot to win. I think Sam Tooty for Two Strangers also is a sure thing. And then everyone else, we have Nick Christopher, Aaron Tveit, and Brandon Uranowitz. I think they're all kind of swimming around of like, Dewey. We'll. We'll see. We'll see.

[Matt Koplik]

Maybe. Yep. It'll be.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. Especially with, you know, we'll see how successful Luke Evans is in Rocky Horror. We'll see what happens with Lost Boys. We'll see what happens with Schmingadoon. But I also, because I'll say with lead actress, we can just say, I think Marlon Mandel will be getting in for Titanic. It's just. That's gonna happen. And then lead actor and actress in plays. We did that already.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah. I think we're.

[Jeff Malone]

Wait, so we're done?

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, we might be done.

[Richie Grasso]

That was the quick, rapid fire at the end.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah, well, because I forgot I had a phone call.

[Matt Koplik]

Okay. That was good.

[Jeff Malone]

Okay. So what we have so far this winter, what are. Would you say are the big shows that you want to make sure people keep on their possible ballots for nominations?

[Matt Koplik]

Ooh, I think they kind of speak for themselves. I think Two Strangers and Ragtime are going to keep themselves in the race. They're just still running into the dead of winter right now. So I think those are things that people like are going to just have no choice but to keep on the back burner.

[Richie Grasso]

And then for plays, Liberation, Oedipus, probably.

[Matt Koplik]

Yeah, we need to remember those. Even though they're closing soon, we have to remember those.

[Jeff Malone]

And I want everyone to also remember Marjorie prime, especially when it comes to acting. I think that there's some good stuff that could happen there. Yeah, I agree with you guys. I think Liberation, Oedipus definitely keep pins in that. I think Little Bear Ridge Road will have some stuff that will get remembered in the spring, But I don't think as much as people are expecting, I think of the two, Liberation is one that's gonna carry on through. And then. Yeah, for all the things we said about Ragtime, like Ragtime is going to do quite well on nomination morning.

[Matt Koplik]

Sure. Of course. Oh, yeah, no doubt.

[Jeff Malone]

Yeah. But I, I think what we've been saying is like do not forget that Jellicoe Ball is coming.

[Matt Koplik]

Do not forget category. We've ended with saying. And let's just not forget we have Jellicoe Ball. I feel like that's gonna really come out of nowhere and then that's gonna be the bright shiny toy that everyone looks at. And that's really gonna happen. I really.

[Jeff Malone]

Gentlemen, this has been so lovely. Thank you so much for joining me today.

[Matt Koplik]

Of course. Thank you so much for having us.

[Jeff Malone]

Where can people find you if you want them to find find you, Jeff.

[Richie Grasso]

On the podcast at half hour podcast on Instagram and we're on all the major platforms, Spotify, Apple, Music, et Amazing.

[Jeff Malone]

If you want to follow us, guys, I'm on Instagram at Matt Copley, usual spelling. I believe we're going to be starting a tick tock soon. Don't. Don't quote me on that.

[Richie Grasso]

You'll see us there.

[Matt Koplik]

We're there.

[Jeff Malone]

TikTok scares me, babe. But you can also give this podcast Nice 5 star rating or review. You can join our substack or Discord especially as we're now getting into Tony discourse. This is a great time to join the Discord channel or join the substack. Jeff Richie, who what diva do you want to close out with today?

[Richie Grasso]

We should do, we should do a new Broadway diva manifesting Mackenzie Kurtz. Okay, go there because she's gonna be a new Broadway diva.

[Jeff Malone]

All right, we're gonna do that. We're gonna close out with Ms. McKenzie Kurtz. All right, we will see you guys. Next.

[Matt Koplik]

They'll go to the pub. They've been out searching for a shrub out shopping for a bush well, they can kiss my tush it seems to.

[Jeff Malone]

Me they've really lost a plot.

[Matt Koplik]

Whatever happened to my.