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Special Episode: Caragh Donley on how Sharon Stone, Kelly Clarkson helped her transition
00:21:15
On today’s episode, Matt Tamanini is in conversation with writer, performer, and four-time Emmy-winning producer of ‘The Kelly Clarkson Show,’ Caragh Donley. Caragh will premiere her new solo show “He Said,
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- [00:00]
Kara Donnelly
Foreign.
- [00:07]
Matt Tamnini
To a special interview episode of Broadway Radio. My name is Matt Tamnini. On today's episode I'm in conversation with writer, performer and four time Emmy award winning TV producer Kara Donnelly. Kara is bringing her new solo show he said she says to the Wild project for four performances on April 5th, 7th, 15th and 19th as part of the 2025 New York City Fringe. In the show, Kara tells her story of at the age of 63, deciding to come out as transgender and to transition into her true self. In our conversation, Kara and I discuss how the one and only Sharon Stone played a major part in her journey to coming out and transitioning. How Kara's boss, Kelly Clarkson. Yes, that Kelly Clarkson made one major decision that opened up the opportunity for Kara after decades of going back and forth, finally being able to come out and how Nancy Wilson, like Rock and Roll hall of Famer Nancy Wilson of Hart, got on board to create original music for the show. Of course, in the show notes I'll have information on how you can purchase tickets, he said she says again on April 5th, 7th, 15th and 19th as part of the 2025 New York City Fringe. Alright, without further ado, here is my conversation with Kara Donnelly. Okay, Kara, the first question I have to ask is what is your favorite Sharon Stone movie? Are we talking Total Recall, Basic Instinct Casino? Where are we going here?
- [01:41]
Kara Donnelly
I actually, even though it's a smaller part, Total Recall was pretty kickass and I don't know why I still like to say consider I do was which is Arnold's attempt. I he it's so bad with me loving her and Total Recall that in our office a couple days ago, it was on the monitor but silent and I stood and I watched a couple minutes ago, Recall.
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Matt Tamnini
Did you, did you know all the dialogue even though it was muted?
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Kara Donnelly
Pretty much. And then you know the best thing? Roadhouse came on after the original and I know too many scenes by heart of Roadhouse. So, you know, what is it, what.
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Matt Tamnini
Is it about that movie that that speaks to you so much?
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Kara Donnelly
It is the best bad movie ever made. It was made by a director whose only real credit was he was a stuntman. So like every six minutes a fight breaks out or a monster truck crushes other cars or Patrick Swayze rips a guy's heart out. Spoiler alert. Sorry. It just, it is so 80s and so perfect in that and maybe the best tough guy line ever. Pain don't hurt. Like where? Where else? Yeah, I absolutely. But I digress. Unless you want to do an hour on Con Air.
- [03:25]
Matt Tamnini
No. Oh, well, I mean, I'm sure we could, but let's. Yeah, let's digress a little bit. I started with Sharon Stone and I think for a lot of people who have followed your story a little bit, she is kind of an unusual place for you to start this next chapter of your life.
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Kara Donnelly
It's. Yeah, I mean it's, it's certainly not something I would have called a few years ago or even when I was talking to her that day. It, it came as a surprise. But I will, you know, every, every origin story needs like that mentor, that sage, Peter Parker, Uncle Ben, you know, Luke Skywalker, Yoda, Elon Musk, Satan. So Sharon Stone is my, you know, my, my origin story begins with her as my mentor.
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Matt Tamnini
And you, like you, you've said before and you just mentioned kind of here you were talking to her just in the daily course of, of your job. And, and what, what was the, what was the little nugget that she gave that really prompted you to be willing to take that final step and come out and transition after you'd kind of gone up and down through that process for decades?
- [04:44]
Kara Donnelly
She, I mean, I talked to her. It was the heart of COVID days. So everybody, the guests didn't come to the show. Like everybody was doing it virtually. And so she was just booked to promote her book, I believe, and just, we just talked. I don't think there was a, a specific moment. It's usually when you do these pre interviews, it's, it's kind of surfacy and I don't think there is such a thing as surfacey with Sharon Stone. There was just this wide ranging discussion of being oneself and you know how it is hard, but it's worth it. And that was the theme of our like 90 minute conversation. And clearly a little unforgettable.
- [05:43]
Matt Tamnini
Yeah, well, obviously that led to some pretty big life changes. And there's some unbelievable vulnerability that you've shared, not only in talking about your story, but also writing about your story. But I imagine it's a different type of vulnerability to take it from those places to actually get up on stage and tell your story. Because you've talked and written about for decades, for years, since you were a kid, you've put up these walls. Being on stage right there in front of an audience and going through the highs and lows of your journey. I imagine that that brings some different levels of emotions that might be new to this process for you.
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Kara Donnelly
Nobody told me there was going to be an audience. Jesus.
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Matt Tamnini
Sorry. My fault.
- [06:28]
Kara Donnelly
Spoiler Alert next time. Sorry, it's. I. I am strangely not really horrified about this, even though, like, my. I think my last stage performance would have been like third reindeer from the left in the fourth grade Christmas pageant. So I am not an actor and I'm not a theater person, but at the same time, I'm telling this story that I lived, so there is no, like, wrong way doing it. And there's nothing really to fear because it's just my story. And I am hopeful. And many actors I've spoken to at Kelly, who I have, you know, as guests, have all told me the same thing about not being fearful, that it's my story, which I wrote and I'm telling, so why do I have to worry about anything? And that's. That's what I'm bringing to it.
- [07:37]
Matt Tamnini
Yeah. And you have decades of entertainment experience and writing. What has the process been as you're constructing this show differently from working as a journalist, working as a television producer? Are you finding there are different parts of your creativity that you're able to pull out, or is it kind of just bringing the best of all of those different experiences into one new project?
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Kara Donnelly
You know, mostly the latter. I. The challenge, what I'm used to in writing is you just write and you send it off and someone puts it out into the public arena, and that's it. This is the first time I. I need to do something that is interactive, and the writing is very, very different when you have to do that, because the wording and the flow and the rhythm has been very different from what I'm used to. But, you know, having said that, I. I enjoy the challenge of it. So, you know, it's hopefully, hopefully people will see that level of. I don't know if joy is the right word, but hopefully they'll see something good in it.
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Matt Tamnini
Yeah. Well, this. The show, which is running for four dates currently, April 5th, 7th, 15th and 19th at the Wild Project. And this is something that, given everything that's happening in the world today, takes on a lot different connotations, maybe than even when you started writing it. But you talk about there being joy in this story. What are you hoping that people who come and see the show take from it first?
- [09:22]
Kara Donnelly
I hope a whole lot of CIS people come because that they were the ones that I was kind of writing more for, because what I have found in my, you know, slightly less than two years of experience is most people have never met a trans person or they've met and a transition trans person. And most people don't Hate us. Like, they just don't know us and they believe what they know based on Fox News or whatever. So I. I am hopeful that everyone who walks away from seeing this will go, wow, I guess they're not that bad after all. That's what we were afraid of. We were afraid of the fifth Golden Girl. Like, that's what terrifies people. I had to just show the normality of being trans. I hope the show does that for people, and I hope I just generally do that for people, because that's important for people to go, oh, wow, that's what you're like, okay, cool. That's the experience I've had since coming out as well, is nobody throws any hate. They're just curious. And I want to help educate as much as I can.
- [10:56]
Matt Tamnini
When you have people who are curious and they have questions, do you find it often being a lack of knowledge that they don't know something and that they're finally getting the opportunity to ask somebody questions that might have been festering up? Or is it more of people trying to challenge beliefs that they've had, like you said, kind of forced upon them from other sources? Like when people are curious and asking questions, what are the types of questions and what's the background of those things as they kind of have the opportunity to do this that they might not get, you know, perhaps ever in their life?
- [11:31]
Kara Donnelly
Yeah, well, there's. The construct of the show involves something that I started doing within a couple of weeks, probably after transition, when people would ask questions, which is fine, but they were just the same ones sort of over and over. And I decided to call it Trans Bingo. And if somebody hit five, the five recurring questions in a row, I would, you know, yell bingo, but only in my brain because it would be rude otherwise. And the five things in trans bingo that people always ask, number one, always being, so when did you know you wanted to change genders? And that one still annoys me because that's not what I did. I confirmed it. And I. I used to think I was annoyed by people asking those questions. Now it's like a public service. And I've never once had somebody, and just my experience, not everybody's, but I've not had that kind of aggressive, I don't get you kind of person, but just been good. I. I've been lucky. Not everybody's that lucky.
- [12:49]
Matt Tamnini
Yeah. You've talked about how supportive your work, family has been throughout this process. And you've also talked about how important being in New York City has been for this process. And now, obviously, you're bringing this show to a New York City audience, moving from Los Angeles to New York. Why has that? I guess maybe go in a little bit more onto why being in this specific city has allowed this process to be a little bit hopefully easier than it could have been somewhere else, or maybe not might not have happened at all if you hadn't ended up in New York.
- [13:29]
Kara Donnelly
Yeah, no, I think that is. I don't know that any of this would be happening if it wasn't. You know, it comes down to if it wasn't for Kelly Clarkson, because I spent all those decades not being open and honest and. And just deciding to be me. And I spent 34 years in LA, and I would have probably spent another 34 just hiding until she decided to move the show to New York. And then it became. Not many people of my elderly age get to change their lives completely. So New York City is far more open and understanding. And the. The trans community here is amazing. But it's also just the idea of going somewhere else. So she could have moved the show to Dallas and I would have gone. And maybe not as had had as easy a transition, New York City, but the idea of just getting out of this place I was physically and coming to a new place physically, it just gives you freedom. It's, you know, people who don't know you, you get to reinvent. And New York is the city for reinvention that. That I always knew.
- [14:57]
Matt Tamnini
Yeah.
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Kara Donnelly
And I've never. Never leaving. So.
- [15:01]
Matt Tamnini
Good. We're glad to hear that. You mentioned earlier how you've never written for theater. You're not necessarily a theater person. But one of the things that separates this writing, especially with He Said, she says that maybe some of the writing you've done in the past is that you are able to include music with this show and you have some music by a pretty incredible person. One, how did Nancy Wilson get involved with this? And two, as somebody who loves Hart, and I know you love 80s music as well. How cool is. I mean, obviously you've got a ton of cool experiences working with Kelly, but like, heart is to me, at the pinnacle for a lot of things.
- [15:43]
Kara Donnelly
Yeah, it's still a little unbelievable for me, having grown up in Seattle, the land of art. And Ann and Nancy were literally the first two celebrities I ever met when I was like 16. So I love the full circle nature of it. Yeah, there's a few. There's some score Nancy Wilson has done. She wrote a kind of a theme song for the show. And I had met her and Ann, they were on Kelly's show last season, and I just, I. Nancy and I just sort of connected and told her about what I was working on. She was very helpful in helping with the writing a little bit.
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Matt Tamnini
Wow.
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Kara Donnelly
And then just volunteered to help to give some music, but also to hopefully elevate awareness because my name doesn't mean much to anyone, but Nancy Wilson does. So she is doing it partially just to hopefully get more people to come.
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Matt Tamnini
Yeah. That's amazing. And she just offered is. It kind of says a lot about who she is because, you know, I think Anna, Nancy, a lot of people know both of them, but they're not the super forward public figures that a lot of people of their stature are. So to hear that about her is, is. Is very fun and very cool.
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Kara Donnelly
She is. She's pretty special, I have to say.
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Matt Tamnini
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'll, I'll, I won't take too much time. I'll wrap it up here with a couple last questions. Sticking with the, the, the music question, what is your favorite Kelioke that. That you guys have ever done?
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Kara Donnelly
That would probably get me in trouble if I.
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Matt Tamnini
Okay.
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Kara Donnelly
Not putting. I, I will say whenever Kelly sings, like, classic blues and R B, those, those are my favorite moments because her voice is so good at everything, but I just like that type of music. So when she hits it and then there also when she's singing a song I've never heard of and then she sings it, I have to go find that song. That happens all the time. I now know Slaughterhouse because Kelly has covered Suki Waterhouse.
- [18:14]
Matt Tamnini
There you go. Yeah. And she's a great actress and singer as well and has done a little bit of everything, so that's very cool. Well, I'll, I'll wrap up with a question specifically about this run of the show. You've talked about what you hope that people get out of it if they come to see the show, but I'm interested. What are you hoping to get out of this process? Is this different than writing a story for HuffPost? Is this different than talking about your experience with Kelly and Laverne Cox on the show? What are you kind of going through this process and, and hoping to achieve by doing it yourself?
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Kara Donnelly
I, I don't want to become, like, grandiose in my ambitions, but then again, I'm a writer and that's what we do. I would. Nothing would make me happier than people walking away from this going, oh, so that's all trans is. That's it. They're just people Living their lives and making some jokes and crying in front of people for, like, an hour. That's all. Then why are we. What are we so worried about? That it would be nice to be able to take this into the belly of the beast, even, and to do it in schools or travel. Travel, Alabama, and. And do this because I. I want people to know we're just. We're pretty much just like you guys. Trans people can be boring, and trans people can be shy, and trans people can be anything. We're not what you heard. And I very much hope that I get more CIS people showing up than trans people, because that's who I want to reach. Oh, hopefully that made sense.
- [20:13]
Matt Tamnini
No, absolutely. I think that's wonderful. And I think the world could use some of that insight and compassion right now. Well, Kara, thank you so much for talking about this. I wish you so much luck with this run, and we'll be following along, and hopefully we can see this going into some very, very red areas in the country some point in the future.
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Kara Donnelly
I. I know it's insane, but I really want to be on Fox News talking about it. I have never seen them have anyone but Caitlyn Jenner there, and I feel like I could probably be a better example of transness than Caitlyn Jenner.
- [20:55]
Matt Tamnini
Yeah. Well, I will look forward to that hopefully happening in the future.
- [21:00]
Kara Donnelly
All right, great. Well, thank you for your time. I really appreciate it. Hope we'll see you there.