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Special Episode: Sarah Bockel on the ‘Beautiful’ Carole Club
00:25:58
On today’s episode, Matt Tamanini is in conversation with Sarah Bockel, who is currently playing Carole King in ‘Beautiful’ at the Riverside Theatre in Vero Beach, Florida through May 11. Sarah has played Carole numerous times before,
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- [00:00]
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- [00:37]
Matt Timminini
Welcome to a special interview episode of Broadway Radio. My name is Matt Timminini. On today's episode, I'm in conversation with Sarah Bockle, who is currently playing Carole King in Beautiful, the Carole King musical at the Riverside Theater in Vero Beach, Florida. This is far from the first time that Sarah has played this role. She was in the Broadway company understudying the role of Carole King. She was an understudy on the national tour for a couple of years. She's also played the role at the Algonquin Playhouse and in addition to this production in Florida, she's going to do it out in Sonoma over the summer. With all of that experience, both performing the role and watching other people do the role as well, Sarah brings an immense amount of insight to this production happening at Riverside. I saw it last week and got to talk to Sarah the day after and she is tremendous, both vocally and in terms of portraying Carol Carol. She has some fantastic perspectives on what makes Carol Carol, both as a human being and as a character in this musical, why there seems to be a Carol Club of people who are continually asked to do this show across the country and so much more, of course. In the show notes I'll have information on where you can purchase tickets to see Sarah play Carole King in Beautiful at the Riverside Theater in vero beach through May 11. But with all of that out of the way, here is my conversation with Sarah Bockel. Sarah, you have done Beautiful on Broadway. You've done it on tour, you've done it at the Algonquin Playhouse, you've now done it at Riverside, and you're going to go out to Sonoma and do it this summer, I believe. Is there ever a moment when you're in the wings in a blackout waiting to go on stage and even for a split second you forget which production you're in and you can't remember if you're supposed to go upstage or downstage? Because I haven't done a play since my senior year of High School 27 years ago, and I still have nightmares about that. So I can't imagine what it's like for you.
- [02:29]
Sarah Bockel
Yeah. Every once in a while, I'm like, wait, where do I exit? Exits are what's tough for me. It's like, if I can get to the entrance, I'm good. But I still do it here because there's just a few things that are flipped. And I've never done a production on a turntable, and Riverside production is on a constantly turning set. And so I get. I have really bad spatially. I'm an actor for a reason. And so I just. Yeah. I have to think for a second, you might even see me, like, go this way.
- [03:06]
Matt Timminini
Is there a stage manager or something backstage, like, with, like, air traffic control batons or something to get you in the right place?
- [03:14]
Sarah Bockel
We have a stage manager on each side of the. Of the backstage, and then we have a stage manager in the booth calling the show. So if anything goes wrong, someone has seen it, and these women are always there. You know, maybe not a traffic one.
- [03:30]
Matt Timminini
But it may be a. Yeah, she's waving for people in audio. Yeah, waving with a big hand overhead. Yeah.
- [03:37]
Sarah Bockel
And if I do screw it up, we. We fix it on the fly. It's okay. I am the other side. It doesn't. The play doesn't stop.
- [03:42]
Matt Timminini
No, you are. You are all professionals. And that's obviously kind of a little of a joke, but obviously not a complete joke. But it does interest me when you have done a show in so many different incarnations, and obviously the tour and Broadway were probably almost identical, if not pretty darn close. But I do wonder, from an acting standpoint, how do you balance going from all of the experience and the knowledge that you've built up of knowing this character in one production to then going into a completely fresh perspective with new creatives, new co stars, all of those types of things, and not relying too much on the stuff that you've done in the past, but also using it to inform what you're doing this time around.
- [04:22]
Sarah Bockel
It's tricky, and I feel like, you know, because I've done it so much, I really do feel very confident about what I think is right, while also needing to be flexible and like, oh, that's interesting. And, oh, I didn't think about that. And doing, you know, the show so many different times with so many different people makes you more flexible and like, oh, that's an interesting take on it. And that's an interesting take on it. Or, oh, I feel strongly that that doesn't work. And you have to choose, you know, because that's not my job. It's not my take. It's my take on the role, but it's not my take on the show. So it is. It's a really good learning experience in staying open minded.
- [05:06]
Matt Timminini
Is there like one thing that you've learned through these different productions over these years that you're like, this is the quintessential thing about Carol that has to be there every time. Whether it's like a personality trait or even like just a physical thing. Is there something that you're like. This is the heart of who I think Carol needs to be. Regardless of the trappings of the rest of the production.
- [05:28]
Sarah Bockel
I think she is an optimist. I think her arc is the thing that needs to be there. She starts with this bright eyed optimism, almost nai naivete, and that actually works in her favor. And then, you know, she experiences hardship and things. Obstacles get in her way. But I think the quintessential thing about her is that she never quits. She will adjust, but she won't. She won't give up. And she. And so, and I think like that is, you know, she's not weak. She. But she is, you know, really, really caring and really loving. And that positivity and that strength never goes away.
- [06:32]
Matt Timminini
One thing that doesn't go away between productions is Carol's voice. I'm talking to you now. I saw show last night. I'm hearing you now. Your voice is a. Is a bit different now than what you're doing on stage. So what does it take from a technical standpoint to get that very specific Carole King accent? Is it. Do you spread things out? Do you change the placement? And is it different, I guess, from speaking to singing? Do you have to make different adjustments if you, when, you know, when you're doing the songs and when you're doing the dialogue.
- [07:00]
Sarah Bockel
Yeah, I definitely think, you know, they were very. The original creative team was really wanted her to have a Brooklyn accent, even though Carol's the real. Carol's lost a lot of, you know, she has the more round vowels. But so that was something. And specifically Brooklyn, not Queens, not Manhattan. You know, this like, you could argue about like the pronunciation of the word like singer. It could also be singer. You know, it just depends. And. But I added R because I want it to be understood. I, I think like, yeah, it's, it's tricky when you're on stage too. And then she just has so many quintessential sounds. I. We were always told in the audition process, it's not an impression. We're getting an essence of Carol King. You. You can sing in your natural voice, but I kind of think that it's a fine balance. And I was thrilled that they liked my take on it. You know, she has those really specific. It is kind of. Some of it is more throaty and more back placed and like, you know, trying to think of, oh, darling. Like, it's just like. Yeah, but I. You know, you work with it. You work with it. It's like that back of the throat. It's not as like, it's. There's a little tension in there. And sometimes I have to, you know, depending on the day, depending on how tired my voice is, I have to ease up on it. I can't, like, go full throat on it, or I won't have anything for the rest of the week. So it's a. It's a constant. Kind of like. It's kind of like driving a stick shift. I feel like instead of a automatic.
- [08:38]
Matt Timminini
Wait, wait, okay. Why. Why is that? What's the stick shift analogy? I want to hear more about that.
- [08:42]
Sarah Bockel
Well, it's. With your voice. It's like a constant negotiation depending on how much rest you got the night before. I don't know, indigestion, how, like, how tired, how much talking you did that day. If you have two shows as opposed to one, and I don't want to crack. I don't want you to hear a bad note. So it's always like, in my head, I'm like, can I go for the option up or should I play it a little safe and give them an option later that maybe when I'm a little bit more warm or maybe when it feels. Maybe it'll feel a little bit better later. Or like, okay, like, take a breath in, no tension, think low, get angle the air to the back of your teeth. I don't know. All these things that you're like, also thinking about on top of the emotion and the circumstances of the show that I feel like I have to kind of navigate as the show goes on.
- [09:42]
Matt Timminini
Yeah. Well, it's interesting you're talking about all of the technical things that you have to do in addition to all of the emotions and the intentions that you have. And for me, I could see beautiful every week because I feel like when it comes to these bio jukebox musicals, this is, to me, the best. And obviously the songs help that. But I'm interested as somebody who has been inside of it for for so many years. What makes this show so special? Obviously, Carol's music is iconic, and obviously Barry and Cynthia's music as well. But it's more than that to me, and I don't know that I can put a finger on it, but I'm interested if you can kind of give some insight as to why audiences of all ages love this show so much.
- [10:27]
Sarah Bockel
I think the book writer, Doug McGrath wrote a really special, smart, quick, funny, poignant book, and I think script, and he. He also wrote Bullets Over Broadway, and he was also an actor as well. He was on the show Girls. I remember I was like, that's Doug McGrath. Yeah. And he. You know what? You know what I think sets it apart? Oh, sorry, there's my dog. What I think sets it apart is the fact that Carol told Doug and the producers all of her stories, her life story, and then she stepped away from it. A lot of people, understandably, when they are having a show about their life produced, they have opinions about what is told and what is not told. And maybe they start off being like, yeah, put it all out there. Let's do it. Then they see it and they think, you can't say that. I don't want that story told. That's too embarrassing. That's too painful. That makes me look bad. And Carol was able to separate herself from it, and she didn't come see the show for a long time. It was open, I think, on Broadway two months before she came and saw it. She walked out of the original.
- [11:40]
Matt Timminini
I remember.
- [11:42]
Sarah Bockel
Yeah. And every. And my friends that were in that were like, we thought it was over. We. We were told to finish Act 2, and we thought, we're packing our bags. This isn't going to be done. And a lot of jukebox musicals end there as well, with people being like, forget it. It's not worth it. She chose to let it happen and be told. And so the majority of it, there's some things that are moved around for plot and, you know, dramatic license, but that's her story, a lot of it. So I think that's. It's really honest and true. And so I think that's what makes it so good.
- [12:26]
Matt Timminini
Yeah. I still remember seeing the video for the first time when she surprised the cast on stage when she finally came in, like, I'm weeping openly, and you've got Jessie Mueller and everybody in the cast kind of freaking out. So I imagine it's not an easy show from her perspective to watch, because there obviously is a lot of ups and downs and to Me. There are two moments that kind of always hit me as really emotional moments. The first one is the moment she's in the living room, Jerry's asleep on the couch, and she plays will you still love me tomorrow? And I don't know what it is about the first opening chords of that song. That one always gets me. I tear up every time. But then the moment that I really kind of think sticks as being not only just great dramatically, but also theatrically and really well constructed is the verse that Carol sings of one fine day where it's the only time in the entire show that somebody sings a non diegetic song. And I guess from your perspective, again, having done it, I saw you do it last night. It was brought the house down closes act one. How does doing that differ from all of the other singing in the show, which is just people singing songs without kind of like the construct of my emotions are flowing out, like in a normal musical.
- [13:47]
Sarah Bockel
I think to justify it for myself. I imagine that it's almost like a soliloquy. It's like I'm. She's processing her. Her inner thoughts and connecting that. Like, he wrote these lyrics, and maybe he was trying to tell me something and I didn't see it. And so I think she's processing and she's Everything that goes along with that. The sadness, the ignorance, the feeling stupid, the anger. I feel like it's all bitterness and pain is all in there. So when I'm doing it, I kind of just try to step out and allow myself to process and really hear what the lyrics are.
- [14:40]
Matt Timminini
Is that different? I guess, from. I guess to me, it just that. That seems like what it would be like in a traditional musical where the songs are part of that. Is there a difference between bouncing back and forth between that and singing? You know, I don't know. One of the other songs that she's playing for Don Kirschner or anything. Like, do you have to kind of approach it differently, either vocally or emotionally, because you are in the character? But then stepping outside the character kind of. It's just kind of interesting to me that it's just that one moment in the show as opposed to in a traditional musical? It's the entire show.
- [15:13]
Sarah Bockel
It depends on the intention. Like, is she trying to sell the song or is she. Is a song for her? You know, like, when we sing will you still love me tomorrow for the first time, she's trying to sell it to Donnie. And I don't know. I think it's kind of cool like, that that song. And then Chains, which is the song that opens Act 2, is another one that's like, oh, Jerry wrote these lyrics. Jerry was working through some stuff, you know, but we're not playing that as the. Our feelings. We're. We're playing it as this is a fun pop song. So I. Yeah, I think it just depends on what she's trying to do in the moment.
- [15:59]
Matt Timminini
Yeah. Yeah, it's. It's fascinating to me to kind of watch those acting things happen, because, like you said, if they. If they were songs in a traditional musical, they would be sung completely different than they are as they're trying to pitch them, but moving a little bit away from the show itself to this production at Riverside. I know that you have gotten out into the Riverside community and dropped in on some adult theater classes, I think, or something, and done some other classes. So when you're doing a show out of town, obviously once you're through the rehearsal process and the show is up and running, you open up a little bit more free time. But what does it mean to you to, like, go out into the community of the theater that's supporting the show during the run and kind of connect with the patrons and the volunteers or whoever else is involved with these opportunities?
- [16:46]
Sarah Bockel
I think it's really important to do, because we can forget that there are people sitting out there in the dark. You know, hopefully we're not just trying to impress each other over the monitor. Like, oh, I like that new riff you tried today. You know, it's not for you. It's not for your fellow actors. It's. It's for the community, and it's. We don't know how people feel about it, you know, through applause, of course. And, you know, here, it's very polite audiences. You know, no one's gonna boo. We're like, yeah, well, I do get some. Not booing, but I do get some people talking. Talking to me, which is. Is funny. And I'm always like, I'm. I'm trying to. I heard. You know, I'm trying to acknowledge you, you know, like, that first moment, you know, you kind of. You're out there and you talk to the audience, like at Carnegie hall and there, you know, some people are like, I'm from California, you know, and I'm like, I see you, too, girl. You know, But I. It's really nice, you know, to hear people's impressions of the show. I've gotten. I can remember getting a message in a gunkwhit, but from a woman that was going through A divorce and how. How much it meant to her and how she wished there were more stories, you know, like that. Like that for her. It felt like it was for her, like I was singing to her. And that was so meaningful because it's. You need. You need to hear that when you're tired or when you're like, oh, I don't know if I got it in me today, or I'm not proud of the work I'm doing right now because I'm tired or distracted or something. It's like you have to remember that there are people that you have the ability to give a really meaningful experience to or at least just distract them from the world.
- [18:37]
Matt Timminini
Yeah, no, absolutely. The cast is interesting. As I was going through the program last night, I'm looking through and I start to see there's people with other beautiful experiences in there as well, including the national tour. Were you ever out on the road with Nick or Rachel or any. No times didn't overlap there?
- [18:57]
Sarah Bockel
No, but I know them and I've heard a lot about them. And so it's really cool actually getting to do the show with them and getting to know them as people.
- [19:08]
Matt Timminini
What is it about this show that it seems like I have a friend who has played Carol in multiple productions. What is it about? People keep coming back to it. Not only it's a job and it's a gig and I get that part of it, but also the individual theaters want people who have experience with this show. Why is it. I guess it feels a little bit more unique with this show than with a lot of the other shows that get done around the country.
- [19:33]
Sarah Bockel
Yeah, I think I've thought about that too. And I. I think because, I mean, people want to put a show up quickly and that is, you know, important. And I think, like, you know, it can sometimes I think it can come down to a financial crunch of like, we don't have the time to teach somebody this part. But I also think that it's a unique part and there is kind of like in my head like a carol club. Like, oh, yeah, she's a carol. Oh yeah. You know, like, I know. I think the majority of the carols that the pool is growing. So I feel like I, you know, I meet new, new and all the time that are doing it and I'm like, oh, yeah, of course you'd be great at this. You can tell everybody just kind of has a similar sensibility and kind of a, you know, in general, like a self effacing nature and just kind of grounded and kind of ability to laugh themselves and not too precious. I. I feel maybe. I'd like to think. But I think, yeah, it's like a specific person with the vocal quality, and maybe they know how to play piano or they know how to fake it really well and has the stamina. And it's a lot of, like. It's a lot of quick changes, honestly. I think, like, sometimes it's like you need someone that's, like, cool. This is how we've done it, and this is what will make this work, like. And thank God, you know, here at Riverside, we have such an incredible backstage crew and wardrobe and hair department that they were like, yeah, great. They're like, we are. We know. We already thought about it. We already planned it. And I'm like, great. I don't have to individually, like, teach every change. And they're like, no. They're like, that's our job, you know, so.
- [21:15]
Matt Timminini
Yeah.
- [21:17]
Sarah Bockel
But I think, you know, it's a daunting role in some ways, although there are much bigger roles out there as well.
- [21:25]
Matt Timminini
Yeah, well, and there's. There's just. There's a lot of songs, like, individual songs in the show, too. So it does feel like, even though I would imagine at this point, many people know all of these songs, either from the musical or from just being a human being in the world, but knowing the songs and the. And the harmonies and everything, I'm sure that, like, you said it. It can be a time thing as well. I'll wrap it up here on a couple of questions. You mentioned the carol club. You have probably, you know, being an understudy and all of those things throughout the years, whether it was on Broadway, on tour, or in a regional production. Who are some of your favorite carols? Aside from yourself, of course.
- [22:02]
Sarah Bockel
My God, I just really. I learned everything I know from Abby Mueller from understudying her. I understudied for the first year of the first national tour, and I just. I would try to watch her as much as I could with. Without being creepy or making myself seen. You never want, like, your understudy to be there all the time, you know, like, you're like, please don't show girls me.
- [22:27]
Matt Timminini
You know, as you're walking down a flight of stairs or something, she's right behind you and gonna push you down or anything. Yeah, Yeah.
- [22:34]
Sarah Bockel
I give her space, but I just. I. I look up to her so much, and I remember asking her once, like, how are you just so emotionally present and it's. And new every night, and you're so there and she's like, I just listen. And that was like the, the best lesson. And I, you know, I, I thought about that for a long time and what it takes to just breathe and drop in and just be with your scene partner and just react in the circumstances of the play. And that's really like as simple as it gets to making it new every night. And, and then I learned a ton from Julia Nitel, who I understudied the second year of the tour, who had different but completely just as lovely take. And I, you know, I kind of like, I learned a lot from Abby's act one and I learned a lot from Julia's act two. And then I was able to, or, sorry, Abby's act two and Julia's act one. And yeah, that Julia had this like, really lovely, like lightness and effervescence and Abby had this soulful, like, grounded quality. And I, I, I, I like to think that, you know, at this point, Carol, the, my Carol is, is mine. And it's been so long since I've, I've understudied it, but it really is an amalgamation of all these other women's carols. And you know, I've watched videos of Jesse and I've seen Chelina Kennedy's and I've, I've seen, God, who else have I seen? Just like trying to think Kaylee Harwood and Elena Mills. I've seen a lot of other Carol's and just that like, you know, we all kind of take and take and like, wow, look at that. Like, look at that interpret. Look at where that moment hit her, you know, it's just so cool to see on different people.
- [24:22]
Matt Timminini
Yeah, I love that. And I think that's one of the reasons why I keep coming back to the show and I always enjoy it because while the show is fundamentally the same regardless of production, the, the interpretations do allow you to see something new each time. But speaking of, each interpretation is different for to wrap up here for people who are in the Florida area and are thinking, you know what, I like Carol King's music, but I don't know much about the show. What are they going to get from going to Riverside and checking out this production? What are they going to leave? Obviously going to be leaving, humming all the songs, but on an emotional entertainment level, what are they going to experience?
- [24:58]
Sarah Bockel
I would like to think that they would be inspired to, you know, in the face of obstacles, to keep going and to be like, wow, that she went through some tough stuff and she's still going, you know, and she continued to keep going and she's like, she's an activist now and she moved to Idaho and lives on a farm and how, you know, like built a really, I mean, I don't know, from the outside perspective, it looks to me like a really beautiful life. She didn't give up and she trusted in herself, you know, in the face of all this stuff. So I think, yeah, I. More than the music, I'd really like people to walk away feeling like invincible.
- [25:49]
Matt Timminini
I love that. Well, thank you so much. I loved the show last night as I always do, and you were spectacular. So I wish you the, the best with the rest of the run and then heading out to Sonoma to do a completely different version of Beautiful this summer. So I, I appreciate you taking the time. Enjoy the rest of your the rundown here in Florida. Hopefully you'll get out and get to experience some of the Florida sites and stuff. Everything when you're not on stage.
- [26:14]
Sarah Bockel
Thank you so much, Matt. What a nice interview. Thank you.
- [26:28]
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