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ToB: Friday, May 9, 2025 | Heath Saunders on Asolo Rep’s ‘Superstar’
00:37:40
‘Les Mis’ Cast to Boycott Trump, ‘Beauty and the Beast’ Tour Announces Full Cast, Matt Chats With Heath Saunders Since 2016, “Today on Broadway” has been the first and only daily podcast recapping the top theatre headlines every Monday through Friday.
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- [00:01]
Heath Saunders
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- [00:35]
Matt Tammani
Welcome.
- [00:36]
Unknown
To Today on Broadway for Friday, May 9, 2025. I'm Broadway Radio's Matt Tammani. I'm coming to you on my own today because today's going to be a hybrid episode where I have a little bit of news and then we will dive into a fantastic interview that I had last week with Heath Saunders, who has been on Broadway in Natasha Pierre and the great comedy of 1812 and company, as well as done a ton of other shows in New York and around the country, and is always a favorite on the cabaret scene. He's getting ready to play Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar at the Oslo Rep in Sarasota, Florida, coming up later this month. And what's so interesting about Heath doing that role is that one, he was in Jesus Christ Superstar live. He was in the ensemble, and he was Brandon Victor Dixon's understudy for Judas, obviously was one I'd only don't really need an understudy, hopefully. But he also played the role of Jesus in an acclaimed production of the show in Chicago, which is the production that led to this most recent national tour that went off. It was the same staging based off of the Regent's Park Open Air Theater production in London. So he has been a disciple, he has been Jesus, and now he's going to be Judas. So we had a great conversation. We talked about his history with Jesus Christ Superstar, how he approaches the show, the work that his incredible family does, his sisters Alana and Claire and his brother Trent. I just saw Trent in Dead Outlaw on Broadway, so some wonderful stuff in there. So stick around for that. But before we get into that, let's dive into some news. And it's not often that I can say on this show that CNN is reporting something that we're going to talk about. And this has to do with the fact that President Donald Trump is planning to be in attendance for the June 11 national tour stop for Les Miserables at the Kennedy Center. According to cnn, unnamed sources have confirmed to the news organization that the company Managers have given the cast and other members of the company the option to not perform for the day that Trump is there. And as of now, at least 10 to 12 are planning to sit out. And CNN says that this is, quote, both major cast members and members of the ensemble. We don't know at this point who those are or if there are more than that, but that is currently the plan. Les Mis is scheduled to play in Washington, D.C. from June 11. That'll be the first performance when President Trump is supposed to be there through July 13th. Obviously, this stems back to the story that we've been covering quite a bit over the past few months about this administration's handling of not only the Kennedy center with booting all of the arts focused administrators and taking them over themselves, as well as the cutting of the National Endowment for the Arts and many other outreach programs that the federal government has been giving that so many arts organizations around the country rely on. So, you know, I do find it funny that in a show that is about revolution, is about students and in some cases even artists going against the encroaching authoritarianism of the ruling class, that this is going to anger some people. But media literacy has never been the the hallmark of fascist and authoritarian governments. So we'll see what happens. Will Trump actually show up? Who knows? Will there be anybody to do the show if he does show up? That still remains to be seen. All right. Speaking of national tours, yesterday we got the full cast for the upcoming 25th anniversary production of Beauty and the Beast that is going to be setting out on a national Tour beginning on June 25th in Schenectady, New York, before it officially opens in Chicago in July. We already knew that Kira Bell Johnson will be playing Belle. It's in her name there. She was like born for that role. And then the always wonderful Fergie Phillipe is going to be playing Beast. Now we know that Stephen Mark Lucas will be playing Gaston. Danny Gardner will be playing Lumiere. Kathy Voitko will be playing Mrs. Potts. Javier Ignacio will be playing Cogsworth. Harry Francis will be Lafu. Kevin Lagann is going to be Maurice. Holly Ann Butler will be Madame Cameron. Monroe Thomas will be Babette and Beatrice Goddard Beggs and Levi Blaze Coleman will.
- [04:27]
Matt Tammani
Share the role of Chip.
- [04:28]
Unknown
We also have the entire ensemble in the show notes if you want to check that out, then moving back to New York. Yesterday it was announced that the new play Gene and Gilda will have a run off Broadway at 59 East 59th starting on July 23rd. And running through September 7th. This is a show by Carrie Gitter that charts the relationship between Gene Wilder and Gilda Radner from when they met through their careers and unfortunately, to the far too early passing of Gilda Ratner. Jonathan Randall Silver and Jordan Kai Burnett will reprise their performances after having played these parts in the world premiere at Penguin Rep and then at George Street Playhouse in New Jersey. Joe Branco is returning to direct. If you want more information on how you can purchase tickets, head over to the Show Notes and then before we get into my interview with Heath, I've got a couple of videos here for you. The first comes from the Entertainment Community Friend Gala that was hosted by Michael Urie and Honor Denzel Washington, James L. Neiderlander and Ariana Debose. There is a highlight package of performances including Nicole Scherzinger, Joy Woods, Caroline Bowman and many, many more. So you want to check that out. You can watch that one. And the other one comes from the third annual Janus Jam, which is an annual celebration that is put on by Matt DeAngelis. It is in honor of his late mother who passed away after battling breast cancer and it raises money for the Breast Cancer Research Foundation. The video that I have here is from one of my all time favorites, as you all know here, Kara Lindsay, who recently revealed that she had gone through chemotherapy to deal with breast cancer at the end of 2024. She sings the song Man, I Feel Like a Woman by Shania Twain, which is awesome. So check out that video. The janice jam raised $115,000 for the breast Cancer Research foundation and you can still participate in a silent auction if you head over to playbill.com thejanisjam all right, that's all that I have for you, but don't forget that I will have information in the show notes on how you can purchase tickets to see Jesus Christ Superstar at the Oslo Rep. It will begin performances on May 14, which is next Wednesday and it is currently scheduled to run through June 15th. Also, don't forget to make sure that you get your tickets to see Grace's show at the Soho Playhouse starting on Monday, May 12th. Tickets are only $25. She's going to have so much other programming built around it as well. This is an opportunity that who knows when she's gonna be able to do this show again in New York City and to do it in its very first like real legit off Broadway run will be special. So if you have ever seen the show, watched her the show when it was streaming or just like listening To Grace here. Make sure that you get a chance to head out to the show. We will have a link in the show notes to purchase tickets. All right, that is all that we have. Before I'm going to send you over to the interview, make sure that you follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at broadwayradio. We'll be back to talk to you on Monday. And without further ado, here's my conversation with Heath Saunders.
- [07:24]
Matt Tammani
So I'm catching you on a lunch break. You're a few weeks into rehearsal. Things going well. Is it still that point where, like, it's kind of a mess and nothing's come together yet, or is. Are you starting to see things fit into place, first off, Savage second?
- [07:39]
Heath Saunders
No. We've done our first run through, so we've now, after spending a couple weeks trucking our way through the text, we put it all together on Sunday. So we've. First, we've done a full run through of the show and now we actually. This is an amazing thing about Oslo. They have a relatively generous rehearsal process. I'm pretty accustomed to this point being, like, today being tech, and we have a whole another week of rehearsals, so we're really able to sort of dive in, double click into the sort of moments in the show in a much more reasonable way, in a much more meaty way, which is. Which is really nice. This is a. This, this. I. I feel like I have a bonus week right now, so I normally, I'd be like, I have no idea what's going on. And I'm like, I have no idea what's going on, but I'm not stressed about it. So Works out well.
- [08:38]
Matt Tammani
Yeah. So you got a little bit more time to figure things out. That's good. Obviously, Josh Rhodes is the director and choreographer for this production. He comes not only with tons of experience at Oslo, but also doing shows in New York and around the country. This is not your first time doing Superstar, which we're going to talk about here in a second, but what's it been like to step into his vision of this show, not only from the rehearsal time being spread out fairly nicely, but also to kind of get into his interpretation of this show that you obviously know really well?
- [09:11]
Heath Saunders
Yeah, I, you know, Josh is an incredible visual storyteller, which I think is a sort of, like, joy and an honor to be in. In the room with him. He has a real sense of theatricality and drama that is sort of rooted in the physical space we're working in, what we're sort of going through. Which I have really. I. It has been really a joy because Jesus Christ Superstar is not a particularly clear show on the page. Like, it doesn't. You. You have. You actually often have to add a lot to it in order to sort of feel the through line. And whether that thing you're adding to it is, you know, prior knowledge of the story of Jesus or according to the gospels, or prior knowledge coming from an understanding of Angela Weber and Angela Weber's sort of style and aesthetic. It really is helped by all of those things. But I find that the. The most fun I have is in the director sort of coming at it, not really knowing the show. I mean, Josh did his homework. There's not me being like, Josh doesn't know the show. But coming at it like really fresh eyes is a really exciting thing. And I actually find that it helps me get to know the show better because I can't really come into this assuming that I know what's going on in Jesus Christ Superstar. It really is like, what's happening on. On the stage this time that I have to play against and play with, play with more than against. But it's fun. And Josh runs an amazing room. Just a. He's an amazing leader in rehearsal and keeping everybody sort of every idea is heard and explored and it's really, really a joy.
- [11:09]
Matt Tammani
Well, we talked about the fact that you know this show pretty well, but from some different angles. Like you have played Jesus in Chicago in was a incredibly well received and acclaimed production. And then you were in the NBC Jesus Christ Superstar live. Now, though, you're playing Judas. So is that just a testament to how multifaceted you are? Are you like going Pokemon style, going to collect all of the different parts? Are you going to do Mary Magdalene King Herod next? What is that all about?
- [11:41]
Heath Saunders
I would love to do a Magdalene turn in this show. I think it'd be very fun for a lot of reasons. What is that about? It's, you know, I think I. I think that it has to do with that I'm most sort of. I'm an actor that's kind of hard to place. Like what I. What I do versus what's going on internally versus what I seem like I'm doing. All those things feel like they're often in a sort of violent argument with each other. And I think that actually ends up working pretty nicely for a show like this because the show is really just like, how much can you sing the show? And what I'm learning about this time, you know, I learned the role of Judas. Because I covered Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar Live. But that was, of course, a single performance. And like, if Brandon Victor Dixon had called out, we would have been like, are we doing the show? What's happening? But I covered it and it meant that I, like, I worked. I got to sort of do the show for a couple weeks with John. With John Legend and like, playing opposite of him, which was a delight. Delightful person, Softest face I've ever touched. Interesting fact about John Legend. Really the best skin. I was like, whoa, yeah.
- [13:00]
Matt Tammani
Put it on his special skills section on his resume. Yeah.
- [13:04]
Heath Saunders
So I got to. I learned the role of Judas and actually what, what's really been happening this time is the, the, the sings are very different. Like, they're. They were. They demand different things from me vocally and preparation wise, warming up and warming down is different because the roles just like, sing differently. I haven't, I haven't decided which one feels better to me. They're. They're just. There's just such different experiences that I'm sort of enjoying the ride of like, being given an opportunity to do both of them because now I just like, I love the score. It's one of my favorite scores of all time. So I'm like, I just get to sing all the parts. And that's lucky.
- [13:48]
Matt Tammani
Yeah. What's the biggest difference between Jesus and Judas? Is it the style musically of their songs or is it the characters? Obviously they have very different motivations throughout the course of this show. What's the difference?
- [14:02]
Heath Saunders
Funny thing is that I think their motivations are actually really similar. It's one of the cool things about the show is that, like, really what, what you have is sort of two men who are doing their best to sort of do right by the world. And, you know, we can debate endlessly about how effective either of them are in what they're trying to do, but it's very yin and yang. Like one of them can't exist without the other. And what's funny is that I find playing Judas, I have to focus more on like, the what would Jesus do of it? And when playing Jesus, you sort of have to play much more, much darker. So because it's all about the sort of humanity of this entity more than it's about, like Jesus coming out and being like an angel on earth, it's really about, like, what. How difficult is it to be this thing, the Messiah, as it were. And so it's, it's sort of. I find like, as an actor, they're sort of opposite of what you expect them to be that. That Judas is really the one. You have to really. You have to really be rooted in, like, the positive, like, you're trying to do right by the world. And with Jesus, it's much more like, I'm angry about everything because everybody's annoying me, and they're. They're making my life difficult. Did I actually answer your question? I. I lost no middle of my answer.
- [15:24]
Matt Tammani
No, no, no. That's great.
- [15:25]
Unknown
That's great.
- [15:25]
Matt Tammani
Well, no, that was a. A perfect answer. I love that. But to go on the other side of it, though, like, what is it from, Like, a technical vocal difference between those two?
- [15:36]
Heath Saunders
I, you know, pedagogically, I. I teach voice, so I have to talk about this all the time. But the. The biggest difference is that Jesus is really a baritone who has a very specific party trick, which is this sort of screaming thing. Like, the really high screaming Judas is like a tenor from the jump is always singing in the sky, but it's not. He actually doesn't sing as high as Jesus, just sings more consistently in a sort of higher placement. So there, you know, people are often like, which one's harder to sing? And they. They're. It really is like, which one is easier for your voice to sing than it is which one is a more difficult role. They're just sort of different. They have different party tricks. Right? That's like. That's the fast. The fast answer is Jesus. Party trick is screaming high. Judas's party trick is always speaking high.
- [16:33]
Matt Tammani
Yeah, well, I. I know. I have watched. I think it was at 54, where, like, you. Your version of Guest Seminary. I think I've watched it a dozen times or so. It's like, that's a. That's one of my favorites. So I love that. And so getting to hear you do what's the Buzz? Which is probably my favorite song or Blood Money. No, Blood Money is going to be my favorite. Yeah, Blood Money will probably be my favorite. But like, to hear you do those after knowing your Gethsemane so well. Like, I'm super excited to be able to.
- [17:00]
Heath Saunders
Oh, that's very kind of amazing.
- [17:02]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [17:03]
Matt Tammani
Well, so moving on from. You're doing Judas, not doing Jesus this time, but the rest of the cast is pretty awesome, at least from the folks that I know it. Whether it's, you know, even with Anne Morrison playing, like, King Herod, like, what is this? Like, that's insane.
- [17:20]
Heath Saunders
Yeah, yeah, it's. It's an incredible cast that they've. They've assembled this. This little cast of Avengers that they've got going on here. I mean, Jesse is one of the greatest singers I've ever shared a stage with. Anne is playing Jesus. Playing Jesus. Jesse Nagger. And Anne is, of course, in a. A icon in. In the industry and in Sarasota. It really is like a who's who of talent. The other thing is actually the entire ensemble is filled with, like, my favorite kind of actor are actors who you, like, see and you think they do one thing, and then you find out in working with them that they do something very, very different than that. And the entire cast is like that. They're little, like Russian dolls of talents that, you know, I'm now, like, in week four and still discovering things that people do. You're like, oh, that's wild. I mean, every person in the cast is remarkable.
- [18:24]
Matt Tammani
Yeah, I love that. Speaking of remarkable groups of people, I do wonder, is there ever a moment, like, literal second or minute when somebody from the Saunders family is not performing somewhere? Is it, like a contractual thing that somebody has to be working around the clock?
- [18:47]
Heath Saunders
Well, of course, you know, bringing up my siblings is. Is my. My brother opened in Dead Outlaw last night. So we're. We're very fresh with the. The Saunders family is out. Claire is out at Pioneer Theater doing Waitress right now playing Jenna and Waitress, and Alana leaves next week to do the narrator in. In Joseph.
- [19:08]
Matt Tammani
Joseph. Oh, that's a nice little alw Biblical story.
- [19:12]
Heath Saunders
Actually, when I. When I was doing Jesus, Trent actually left to go to London to play Che and Evita. So we really are a little bit of an Angeloid Webber family through and through. The answer to that are we contracted. The real answer here is that I'm just really privileged to have an incredibly talented siblings because they push me. I. I mean, how. How many people in the world can be like, when Claire debuted on Broadway in Sweeney Todd, we were like, well, finally, thank God. Now the rest of us.
- [19:46]
Matt Tammani
The other three have already been. Yeah.
- [19:48]
Heath Saunders
He was like, yeah, it's cool. My siblings are. We're like. I mean, we're all. We're. We're. It's. I am blessed and highly favored, as it were. So.
- [20:00]
Matt Tammani
Yeah, well. And I know, like, maybe I could joke about it. And I know gigs for actors and performers are always, you know, a privilege to get, and there's times when it feels like there's a dry spell.
- [20:09]
Unknown
But it.
- [20:10]
Matt Tammani
I would imagine, though, having the opportunity to kind of go through that journey and the ups and downs of that journey with siblings who are right there alongside of You. But then you can also celebrate their joys, and they can celebrate yours, but also help you through the valleys as well. That has to be, you know, that has to be beneficial to the mental aspect of the ups and downs of this career.
- [20:33]
Heath Saunders
Yeah, I would say that the. You know, one of the things I'm really interested in is like, naming privilege. Like, what is privilege? Because people have a really hard time being, like, engaging with it. I mean, especially in this particular day and age, we have a tendency to think about privilege as being a set of, like, traits that a person has. And I think about privilege as being us, the way that our communities sort of wrap around us, that that means. And one of my great privileges in my life is that I have been surrounded by people learning with me what it means to be a theater artist in the world. So, like, at no point or, like, do I not have somebody who doesn't. Who doesn't understand what I'm going through in some way. And we have, like, a really extreme version of it because, you know, I have identical twin sister. And so they're like. You know, a lot of actors are like, oh, they. They meet their doppelganger in the world, and they're like, oh, I'm always seeing this person at auditions. It's very different when this person is like, your family, like, share the exact same DNA.
- [21:41]
Matt Tammani
Yeah.
- [21:41]
Heath Saunders
And, you know, people are. It's funny. A bunch of people, people who know one of us often don't know. I don't. A joke about my family is that everybody thinks they know the talented one. So when somebody encounters Claire, they'll be like, oh, I know the talented one. So her siblings are all untalented that this is, like, a joke that happens in casting. They're like, one casting office, like, knows we have Trent. So that means the other ones are like, fine, but Trent is the good one. We. Everybody disagrees on who the talented one is. But then people will see one of the other ones perform, and they'll be like, one. They look a lot like you two. They sound a lot like. Like Trent and I sound very similar, but never do the same roles. We're, like, very rarely go in for the same thing. I most recently was into to understudy him in. In Dead Outlaw and did not end up booking it. But that was like a funny. Like, our lives are weirdly separate considering how close we are. And, you know, our mom and I, we. We and our mom sort of founded a tech theater company that's really about theatrical data. So we work together all the time. We're constantly. Spectra Theater is like, what we spend our time doing. I had a meeting this morning before rehearsal that was like, all about our sort of company. So we're seeing each other all the time in ways that are not about auditioning and being in the shows and, like, acting, which is nice because it's not. You would think that with a bunch of actors, all we would talk about is acting, but mostly all we talk about is theater. From a much more technical perspective.
- [23:19]
Matt Tammani
Yeah. Yeah. From the data analytical perspective.
- [23:21]
Heath Saunders
Yeah.
- [23:21]
Matt Tammani
It's much different than.
- [23:23]
Heath Saunders
Yeah.
- [23:23]
Matt Tammani
It is wild to me that you and Trent don't go in for things together because you do sound like, in. Like, even though you've got a little bit of blonde in your hair right now, you do look alike too, obviously, as brothers. So.
- [23:33]
Heath Saunders
Yeah. Actually. Wait, can I talk about this yet?
- [23:39]
Matt Tammani
Oh, amazing. And what a per. Yeah. And what a perfect. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah.
- [23:44]
Heath Saunders
It's going to be a wild experience.
- [23:46]
Matt Tammani
Amazing. Getting back to Superstar. This is a show that, as you said, you do kind of often have to add something to make it all feel cohesive and to have that narrative go all the way through without spoiling too much of Josh's vision for this. What is that through line? What is the special sauce for Asola's production of Superstar?
- [24:10]
Heath Saunders
I'm thinking mostly because you're saying not spoiling anything, and I'm like, yeah, that's a good.
- [24:13]
Matt Tammani
Well, you can feel free to spoil whatever you want. I just didn't want to, like, put you on the spot to have to.
- [24:17]
Heath Saunders
Well, Jesus dies in this one, so that's crazy. No, amazing. I would say that this. This production is more interested in story than other productions I've done. I think that Jesus Christ Superstar lends itself to being sort of like a concert. Like, I mean, it's not. Not story based. Like, of course we know that, like, things are happening. There are characters, they interact with each other, they have relationships and so on and so forth. I think that Josh is more interested in the, like, what's going on here between these characters than. Than the sort of concert production of it. I think. I think. I think Josh is. I mean, Josh is interested in story and character more than, I think, almost anything else, which I love. I'm like, great. And the funny thing is that, like, that's not. There's no right or wrong way to do it, and I'm in. You know, the. The other productions I've done were equally interested in character. It's just that it was much more like internal. Josh seems much more interested in the. In, like, do we understand how these characters are relating to each other and what's going on here than how cool can they sound?
- [25:48]
Matt Tammani
Yeah, Well, I mean, both of those other productions were much more concert forward. I mean, the NBC one actually said concert in the title. In Chicago, you had mic stands you were walking around with and everything. So, like, it's. Those were very concert music forward. So this will be interesting to see a different version.
- [26:06]
Heath Saunders
My favorite thing about the Chicago one was that I wasn't. Didn't have a body mic. I was only using a handheld mic the whole show, which is the best. I love not having a body mic. I love handheld mics. You can. That's a weird fact about me.
- [26:23]
Matt Tammani
What is it about it? Like, the ability to kind of play with the dynamics a little bit more or.
- [26:27]
Heath Saunders
Yeah. I love mic technique. I love that I can, like, change the way that my voice sounds based on how I sing into a mic. I love the control that it gives me. I can mix myself in different ways. I can. I'm, you know, I'm a composer and a sort of sonic engineer kind of person. So when I get a mic, I feel like I have a little bit more control as a performer. When I'm being body mic'd, I sort of have to, like, not think about it because it's not my job.
- [26:58]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [27:00]
Heath Saunders
But, yeah, I love handheld mix. I'm excited to do the show. Not with that. I don't know. It's gonna be interesting.
- [27:10]
Matt Tammani
Yeah. Yeah.
- [27:10]
Heath Saunders
I. It seems like I'm not like. I'm like, non answering questions, but I'm like. It's like. It's. It's weird because, you know, every production is different. Every show is different. Every. Yeah, I'm having a good time. This is the. I hope that you're getting out of the, like, breadth of my answers that I'm like, I'm having a great time.
- [27:30]
Matt Tammani
Well, yeah. And you're still in rehearsals. You haven't even made it to. To tech, which you haven't even gotten on the set of the stage yet. So there's a lot to still be discussed.
- [27:36]
Heath Saunders
I have, like. I have, like, a costume fitting today. I'm like, not anything's possible.
- [27:41]
Matt Tammani
There's still stuff to do.
- [27:41]
Heath Saunders
There's things. There are things that are happening.
- [27:44]
Matt Tammani
Well, I'll wrap it up here with a couple of questions. You. And. I don't know if it was all of your siblings, but I think a lot of your siblings all went to School in Florida. So you are back in. In Florida. It's a time of year where the weather's not terrible in New York, but maybe still ups and downs. So what is the. What is, what are you feeling about being back in Florida? It's in the. I think it's in the 80s at 85 right now where I am. So, like, how are things going? I know you're stuck in rehearsal rooms, but are you getting to enjoy Florida a little bit?
- [28:15]
Heath Saunders
Yes, I. So three out of the five out of the five Saunders kids went to University of Miami. And Miami and Sarasota are not the same.
- [28:26]
Matt Tammani
No.
- [28:29]
Heath Saunders
I haven't been back to Florida since I graduated. So it's been some. A long amount of time. Actually. No, it's been like one and a half years because I graduated. No, it's been a while since I was back in Florida and I am, you know, I enjoy the weather. The. I suppose that I sh. This is a, you know, a casual interview. So there are. There are aspects of the world that makes being in Florida slightly more stressful than it perhaps was understood.
- [29:02]
Matt Tammani
Yes.
- [29:02]
Heath Saunders
10 years ago. But I, I do have time. You know, I go to the pool that the. The housing. Fun fact about Oslo, Oslo's housing is like the best actor housing you can get. We have a really beautiful pool. There's a tennis court. So I'm getting a lot of good sun out. Yesterday I went to Busch Gardens, Tampa. That was, you know, about an hour drive. I love Busch Gardens. I love roller coasters. This is a. So I'm feeling really great about being in Florida in that particular regard.
- [29:36]
Matt Tammani
Yes. Yes. That's. Yeah. There are other parts that we can discuss on a very different podcast in a very different interview.
- [29:44]
Heath Saunders
Yeah.
- [29:44]
Matt Tammani
Yes. I live in Orlando, so I'm almost in the Disney bubble. So it's a very different feel here than it is in almost everywhere else in the state as well. So I understand those feels.
- [29:54]
Heath Saunders
You call it the Disney bubble. I call it the you're close to epic universe, which is way more important to me. To me personally, as a lover of.
- [30:04]
Matt Tammani
Yeah, I'm on the other side of Disney, so it's a little bit further for me, up to Universal, but. Understood. Understood. Well, I'll wrap it up, let you get to lunch. Hopefully you can get a little bit of relaxation here. We've talked about, like, this particular version of Superstar, how the focus that Josh is putting on the characters, but for most people, they don't know the difference between Jesus Christ Superstar, Live, the Ted Neely film, and Everything else that comes together, they might not even know the musical at all. They might just know, like we talked about the biblical stories. For people who are coming into this fresh, either not knowing any of the more recent versions of Superstar, or not knowing any version of Superstar, what do you think that they're going to take away from seeing this version at ocelo starting on May 14?
- [30:52]
Heath Saunders
I think the story of Jesus is really interesting for a lot of reasons, mostly because I think it is poorly understood in practice. And I think that it's poorly understood largely because people don't really think about it. And when you see the story of Jesus play out focused on what these people are trying to do to with and for each other, I think the story hits harder, almost better than when somebody sort of sits down and does the pageantry of it. And I hope I'm sort of talking out of the side of my mouth here, because I've done this show a lot. So I'm like, what's specific to this production versus what I think about the show? And I often, on a personal level, think that the story of Jesus Christ Superstar, and indeed the story of Jesus is one about. I think a lot of people think about the aspect of like, ah, Jesus is the Son of God, and that's cool. And I actually think that story of Jesus is much better understood when it's a story about human capacity for divinity, not the divine's capacity for humanity. So the point of Jesus Christ Superstar, or the point of the story of Jesus, is not one in which we look at the Son of God and we see how in fact he's a human, but instead to look at a human and see how a human can be divine. And by sort of sidestepping the miracle aspects of the story of Jesus, which Jesus Christ Superstar shows some of them. But mostly it's just like this dude struggling to like, deal with a revolution happening around him. Then we can actually see the sort of beauty and the tragedy of the capacity for the divine. Because in the face of the hardest possible situations, Jesus chooses love in a sort of profound way. And I find that really moving and really inspiring. And I hope that when people see Jesus Christ Superstar, they're able to think about that, their capacity for the divine. What are the ways in which we can be better with, to and for each other?
- [33:52]
Matt Tammani
Yeah, no, that's brilliant and so eloquently said. And obviously somebody, or said by somebody who has spent a lot of time thinking about this show in these roles. So I appreciate that. And last question, Judas Is the hero of this story. Yes or no?
- [34:08]
Heath Saunders
Hero is a funny word in one of my many hyphenates. I'm a dramaturg, and I tend to eschew the word hero when talking about storytelling. Judas is the protagonist.
- [34:23]
Matt Tammani
Sure.
- [34:23]
Heath Saunders
Judas is the engine of the plot. Things happen to Judas. This is the arc that we're following. People love the phrase anti hero. I think that Jesus Christ Superstar is a tragedy because Judas is the protagonist, and it does not. Spoiler alert. Go particularly well for Judas. It doesn't really go well for anyone, really.
- [34:50]
Matt Tammani
I mean, Judas does show up with some. Some fancy clothes and some angels singing backups. I mean, maybe it does go well for him.
- [34:57]
Heath Saunders
Well, yeah. I mean, I do have to.
- [35:03]
Matt Tammani
Yeah, I'm just playing. I'm playing devil's advocate. No punishment.
- [35:08]
Heath Saunders
Okay. Devil's advocate. Arguably, Judas. Yes. Judas is the protagonist of the show. The. I think that hero is a. Is a fraught word to apply to a. A person, a character like Judas, because he does some pretty awful things, even though he's trying to do the right thing. He. He. Well, it doesn't go well for him, does it?
- [35:39]
Matt Tammani
No. No. Well, thank you so much for being so open about all this. I love this show, and I have. Like I said, I've loved hearing you sing certain songs from it. I'm very much looking forward to hearing you sing very different songs from it here in a couple weeks.
- [35:52]
Heath Saunders
You know what's really exciting? If you are Familiar with my YouTube lore, there is a video of me singing Damned for all time on YouTube, but what I'm doing is I'm singing every role in it, so I do all caiaphas and anis and all of those things. Just do all of them so that I'm. You're. I'm looking forward to singing it with a. An orchestra. That's the. That's the. That's the. You know that feeling when you're about to score 30% off but they want your number? Ugh. Give them your line 2 number instead. It's a second line on your phone, perfect for nabbing promo codes without inviting spam to your party. Sign up for every discount under the sun, then block the junk texts that follow. You get all the perks, but none of the spammy baggage. More codes, less chaos. Visit line2.com audio or download line2 in the app Store and get your shopping sidekick today, because the only thing blowing up your phone should be good deals.