#65 A Visit with Joseph Scott Morgan / Body Bags

Summary

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Bubba On the Lake, Episode #65: A Visit with Joseph Scott Morgan / Body Bags

Host: Bill "Bubba" Bussey
Guest: Joseph Scott Morgan (host of Body Bags podcast, forensic expert)
Date: July 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Bubba welcomes Joseph Scott Morgan, a leading forensic expert and host of the true crime podcast Body Bags, for a deep dive into high-profile cases making headlines, including the Michael Jackson case, the ongoing Charlie Kirk investigation, and the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. The show also offers a behind-the-scenes look at forensic education at Jacksonville State University. Bubba and Joseph Scott swap stories, share personal perspectives on loss and life, and explore the realities behind some of America’s most talked-about crimes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction & Bubba’s Updates

• Bubba greets listeners, shares updates about the podcast and his recent activities, and previews main topics, including high-profile true crime stories and a conversation with Joseph Scott Morgan.
• Anecdotes about Tesla's Autopilot saving a heart attack victim and buffalo incidents at Yellowstone.
• Remembers Senator Lindsey Graham, discusses his legacy, and mentions the Rick & Bubba’s Greatest Hits podcast.
  (01:11–09:31)

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2. Joseph Scott Morgan & the World of True Crime Podcasts

• Bubba introduces Joseph Scott Morgan, quick banter about careers in broadcasting and forensics.
• Discussion of Body Bags' popularity, production challenges, and co-host Dave Mack's unique radio voice.
  (11:34–14:07)

Notable Quote

"I sit and marvel at what [Dave Mack] does, what you guys do in radio, relative to production. ... I’m just an old, poor country boy trying to get by talking about forensic science."
— Joseph Scott Morgan (13:54)

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3. Deep Dive: Michael Jackson's Death – Forensic Insights

• Joseph Scott Morgan recounts his recent Body Bags episode on Michael Jackson's death.
• Explains the medical and forensic timeline—drug usage, role of "yes men," and Dr. Conrad Murray’s fatal decisions.
• Detailed pharmacology of Michael’s medication usage, the dangerous practice of using surgical anesthetics at home, and failures in Jackson's medical care.

Key Points

• Michael Jackson was receiving powerful anesthetics (Propofol/"milk") intended for surgeries, not for sleep.
• Dr. Conrad Murray (“the doctor, and I’m almost using that in parentheses" — Bubba at 14:22) was a cardiologist, not an anesthesiologist, unqualified for this level of sedation and lacking proper medical equipment.
• Commentary on celebrity isolation and the dangers of a "yes man" environment.
• The importance of handling celebrity forensic cases clinically as homicides rather than using lawyer-speak like "murder."
• Criminal consequences: Dr. Murray was convicted for Jackson’s homicide but now practices medicine abroad.

Memorable Moments & Quotes

"Anybody can commit a homicide. ... If you're on death row and they execute you, that's homicide. People don't look at it that way."
— Joseph Scott Morgan (18:21)

"The dosages would take down an elephant ... His standard would kill me or you or anybody that's not used to having the stuff on board."
— Joseph Scott Morgan (19:07)

"[Propofol] just—it’s that blackness ... you will not get into those rhythms. ... Michael Jackson was destroying himself with this routine."
— Joseph Scott Morgan (27:43)

"If you ever go to get surgery, just look around the room and you will see all of the equipment and you will see all of the people ... this is not—you're talking about some dirty old bedroom that he's laying in. And it was dirty."
— Joseph Scott Morgan (29:09)

• Discussion of related pop culture: the recent Michael Jackson movie, family dynamics, and what the media leaves unexplored.
• Bubba observes the pattern of "yes men" and drugs affecting stars like Elvis and Prince.
• Joseph on autopsy rooms: "Death is the great equalizer ... ain't no differences. ... it's going to get you. That's the reality." (39:43)

(14:22–41:07)

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4. The Charlie Kirk Case – Evidence, DNA, and Forensic Method

• Joseph Scott Morgan outlines the latest on the killing of Charlie Kirk, including the preliminary hearing and public access to details.
  (43:41–57:53)

Key Elements

• Preliminary hearing: Five days of evidence, all before a judge, allowing for transparency.
• Evidence “bucket is slopping over”: digital evidence, video, forensics, and DNA described in terms like "octillion and quintillion" (49:10).
• DNA evidence particularly strong—combined DNA on key objects suggests robust linkage.
• Forensic handwriting, Dremel tool etchings on bullets ("Hey, fascist, catch this").
• Ballistics: the recovered round fragmented, complicating attempts to match with the Mauser rifle, but overall forensic context remains compelling.
• Challenges for the defense revolve around evidence handling; otherwise, the state's case is strong.

Notable Quotes

"Odds are, the money is on the fact that [the judge] probably will rule that this needs to go forward... I've seen cases with far less evidence."
— Joseph Scott Morgan (46:59)

"The DNA analysts ... were using terms, you ready? Octillion and quintillion."
— Joseph Scott Morgan (49:10)

"We've got bolt action rifles and we've got semi automatic and ... this is a bolt action rifle, which means it has to be manually cycled."
— Joseph Scott Morgan (51:14)

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5. The Nancy Guthrie Disappearance – Law Enforcement Missteps

• Bubba and Joseph discuss the puzzling lack of resolution in the Nancy Guthrie case and missed opportunities by law enforcement.
• Joseph is frank about police errors: crime scene was not properly secured, key evidence (blood, CCTV, footprints) potentially lost.
• Compares to the JonBenet Ramsey case; argues all missing cases should be worked as potential homicides.

Key Insights

• Recovery efforts in Mexico led by volunteers, potential cartel connections.
• The challenge of forensic search in desert terrain: “looking for a needle in a stack of needles.”
• Emphasis on best practices: always treat disappearances as potential homicides to maximize evidence.

Notable Quotes

"Fellas, you screwed up, screwed up bad. ... They didn't secure [the scene]. ... That's indicative of how the whole thing has gone..."
— Joseph Scott Morgan (62:51)

"There’s an old adage ... every death is a homicide until proven otherwise."
— Joseph Scott Morgan (68:09)

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6. Training a New Generation: Forensics at Jacksonville State University

• Discussion shifts to forensic education: JSU’s hands-on approach, cold case work, crime scene simulation labs, and real-world victories.
• Recent partnership with Othram Laboratories led to solving a decades-old cold case, using advanced DNA and genealogy methods.
• Emphasis on giving back to the community, applying applied science/forensics, and engaging students beyond the theoretical.

Case Highlight

• JSU students help identify a man living under up to nine aliases for decades; remains matched, family notified in Pennsylvania.
• Facilities include morgue, trace evidence lab, casting lab, and a full simulated apartment for crime scene recreations.

Notable Quotes

“See one, do one, teach one... You don’t learn by sitting back on your hands.”
— Joseph Scott Morgan (79:01)

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7. Final Thoughts, Upcoming Projects & Audience Q&A

• Joseph Scott Morgan previews Body Bags’ growth and transition to YouTube—over 27,000 subscribers in a short time.
• Highlights an upcoming Amazon documentary, Murder 101, about students solving real serial crimes.
• Bubba encourages listeners to subscribe, check out the Rick & Bubba Greatest Hits, and visit the JSU forensics facility (by appointment).
• Mutual invites: Bubba to tour JSU’s lab and Joseph to enjoy time at the lake.

Notable Quotes

"We’re going to be sweet people and be kind and long suffering and we’re going to look for the joy in things ... but [death] waits around the corner for all of us."
— Joseph Scott Morgan (40:44)

"Keep your ear to the ground... Info will be disseminated... If you are interested in true crime, check out Murder 101."
— Joseph Scott Morgan (81:05, 82:14)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:11 Intro, Bubba's stories and preview
• 11:34 Joseph Scott Morgan joins—background and banter
• 14:22 Michael Jackson case discussion begins
• 27:43 Sleep and sedation, circadian rhythms
• 29:09 Forensics in the Jackson case, standard of care, crime scene conditions
• 41:07 Transition, ad breaks
• 43:41 Charlie Kirk case: summary of hearings and evidence
• 49:10 DNA evidence and complexity
• 57:53 Technical difficulties, segment wrap
• 60:02 Follow-up: autopsy details and preliminary hearings
• 62:51 Nancy Guthrie case: missteps and search difficulties
• 70:54 Forensics education at JSU, solved cold case
• 76:36 Tours and facilities at JSU
• 81:05 Joseph’s final word, YouTube success, upcoming projects
• 83:26 Wrap up, mutual thanks, closing remarks

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps/Speaker)

• "I sit and marvel at what [Dave Mack] does, what you guys do in radio... I'm just old, poor country boy trying to get by, talking about forensic science." (13:54, Joseph Scott Morgan)
• "Anybody can commit a homicide... If you're on death row and they execute you, that's homicide." (18:21, Joseph Scott Morgan)
• "The dosages would take down an elephant ... His standard would kill me or you or anybody that's not used to having the stuff on board." (19:07, Joseph Scott Morgan)
• "[Propofol] ... you will not get into those rhythms. ... Michael Jackson was destroying himself with this routine." (27:43, Joseph Scott Morgan)
• "Fellas, you screwed up, screwed up bad. ... They didn't secure [the scene]." (62:51, Joseph Scott Morgan )
• "See one, do one, teach one... You don’t learn by sitting back on your hands." (79:01, Joseph Scott Morgan)

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Episode Tone and Style

• Friendly, conversational, and occasionally humorous, with a blend of forensic detail and personal anecdotes.
• Bubba’s tone is down-to-earth and accessible; Joseph Scott Morgan is candid, erudite, and approachable about complex forensic issues.
• Audience encouraged to engage, send emails, and revisit true crime cases with a critical eye.

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For Listeners: Where to Find More

• Body Bags podcast – available wherever you listen, now on YouTube.
• Murder 101 documentary – Amazon, KT Studios.
• Jacksonville State University Forensics (tours by appointment).
• Rick & Bubba’s Greatest Hits – nostalgia for longtime fans.
• Bubba on the Lake: subscribe and follow for future episodes and updates.

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Final Thoughts

This packed episode explores the intersection of celebrity, crime, and forensics through the expertise of Joseph Scott Morgan and the signature warmth of Bubba Bussey. If you’re a true crime fan or just curious about the realities behind famous cases, this episode delivers detail, perspective, and plenty of memorable moments.

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Transcript

[Bubba]

This podcast is brought to you in part by Russell Lands Coke Buffalo Wild Wings, Central State Bank, Dr. Thomas Dudney, Sunrise Docks, Bice Motors, the Green Monster Fishing Lights. Now back to Bubba on the Lake.

[Chorus/Backup Singer]

B U double B A on the lake hey Wishing I could listen to the show every day hey gotta hear what Bubba and his buddies gotta say B U double B A on the lake in the mellow yellow studio putting on a show Betty say what she always on the go we got hunter bus sitting at master control don't wanna miss a moment cause Bubba's got the flow B U bubble B A on the lake hey wishing I could listen to the show every day hey gotta hear what Bubba and his buddies gotta say on B U double B A on the lake hey B U B A hey B U hey hey B U double B hey B U double B A on the lake hey.

[Bubba]

Hello again everybody. Friends, neighbors and associates everywhere. I'm your semi retired, mostly washed up post, formerly of the Rick and Bubba show and now your host for Bubba on the Lake, also known as the people's Podcast. We're so glad that you've joined us. We're broadcasting from the Melayella Studio on our website is bubbaonthelake.com and you can always email me [e-mail] also we have our message line 308-244-5253 or easier to remember 308-Big Lake. And I do have a couple of those. If I can get them edited up for this podcast, I'll get them on. If not, it will be the next time. Uh, don't forget to subscribe, turn on notifications. We don't want you to miss a thing. And when you have those notifications, they pop right up on your phone. You know that a another edition is out there and you're ready to go. And of course we always ask you to follow us and subscribe and all that stuff you have to do on all the social medias. And we're about to have a whole lot more going on with those as we get further into the summer here. Well, a lot on the table, a whole lot is. I'm looking through my stuff here, or as Rush used to call it, his stack of stuff. And boy, it is. We have a lot going on. We have a really big podcast today. Joseph Scott Morgan from Body Bags. You've also seen him on Fox, cnn. He's a regular Nancy Grace. We he is scheduled to appear and his last appearance was so we got so much good feedback about that we want to get him on again. We have several other stories we want to cover, but I want to focus on Joseph Scott Morgan and some big stories that are out there that he's covering that a lot of you asked me about. And I said, look, we're going to have to go to somebody a lot smarter than me on some of this stuff. So that's kind of where we are on that. I want to share a couple of stories. We're going to have to do them later in the show. But there's a great story about a man who was driving a Tesla, had a heart attack and was saved because a car drove him to the emergency room. Now, they're set up that if you pass out and you're in the automatic driving mode or the supervised mode, that it will pull over on the side of the road somewhere Safely, it will call 911 and give your location. Well, they said in this particular situation, due to the type of heart attack this man had, he wouldn't have made it. So his son actually took over control of the vehicle and drove, had it drive to the hospital. And it saved his life. So we're, we'll talk about that. Also, I'm getting a lot of email. Yes, I have seen the old man getting thrown in the air by the buffalo. The Boston attack, I heard on one report, I heard it was at Yellowstone. One I heard it was in the Grand Teton. They're very close to each other. They don't connect, but they are very close to each other. You can actually see the Grand Tetons from Yellowstone, which is how they got their name. I did see that. And it, you know, I don't know that they really did anything wrong than being out of their car. It looked like the buffalo was charging a truck, and when the truck went by, he saw them on the other side of the road and he went after him. Guy is okay. He's got broken bones, he's hurt, but he is alive. If you see the video of him being thrown up in the air, you think, how in the world did he survive that? It is something else. Lindsey Graham is dead. Senator Lindsey Graham, staunch conservative, supporter of the Ukraine. That was kind of a surprise. And the conspiracy people are going to have a field day with this one. He recently went to the Ukraine, I'm told, and just got back and nobody knew he was sick and he died. And he's never been married. President Trump said he was married to his work. I don't know. I've been a supporter of his, uh, I think even donated his campaign one time. He supported conservative values and he was a warrior. He actually was running against Trump at one point and then became one of his biggest allies. So we will look at that. We also got some good email. We had some folks visit North Pole, Alaska. They were asked about the Rick and Bubba show. Pretty funny, by the way. And there was a lot of comments about all of that and everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I wanted to point out that if you missed that show, there is a podcast now called Rick and Bubba's Greatest Hits. Many of you know about it. Comes out every week, gets you an hour of some of the best of bits from back in the day, so to speak. So if you have not subscribed to Rick and Bubba's Greatest Hits, do that. I'm always amazed the email I get. Let me put everybody's mind at ease. Yes, I do get my cut of that. I understand, I understand where it's coming from. But I got you. We're okay on that. We're okay on that. So support that if you can. 31 wonderful years or at least 30 wonderful years on that show. And it's, it's fun to relive those memories for me too. It really is. Got to see several of you this weekend in Auburn, Alabama, Yarborough Tennis center at the state junior team tennis State championships. We spent many hot summers at the Yarborough Tennis center, not only playing but coaching junior team tennis. Love that event. Saw Jerry, sees the head of the usta. Talked to her, hadn't seen her in years. Saw several coaches that I have not seen. So saw Clay. Y' all all know Clay with that works there in the Pelham and area of Alabaster. Great guy and it was so good to, to see some of those folks again. Hadn't seen him in years and it was hot as normal. Saw Paul Irwin, we call him Paul Bear Irwin, one of the great tennis competitors of our time. And we actually got to have breakfast at Byron's. We really enjoyed that and I appreciate the folks at Byron's that recognized me and said something to us and so good to meet you guys. So we, we're going to get right into the show. Joe Scott Morgan scheduled to appear. We're going to cover some high profile cases he's been working on. You know, his podcast, podcast is the number one podcast voted on by listeners in the true crime genre. Now true crime is the top genre of all podcasts. Did y' all know that? Sure is. By the way, I appreciate the comments from the last show and I'll get to that in the email. But several, several of you commented about enjoying the facts about America and suggested that I have a new segment called how about that? And we may just do that. That was a good one. That's good. But we'll, we'll cover all that. I want to get Joe Scott on. He's. He's very important. He's hard to book. He's. He's busy and we want to get him on and have plenty of time with him. Then we'll get to that other stuff. So again, let me thank all of you for being here with us. We appreciate the sponsors that make this podcast possible. We ask that you support them when you can and when you can't, just let them know you appreciate it. We'll be back in just a minute right here on Bubba on the lake.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

You're listening to Bubba.

[Chorus/Backup Singer]

Bubba on the Lake.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Bubba]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Bubba]

Folks, we're back and we have Joseph Scott Morgan with us. You recognize him from his hit podcast body bags. You've seen him On Fox, cnm, msnbc, and a whole lot of other places. And you're going to see him in some more places real soon. We're glad to have him. Joe Scott. How are you, sir?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

I'm good, brother. How are you doing? It's good. I've been following. Hey, look, I've been watching you. I've been living vicariously through your trips out west and have thoroughly enjoyed because I ain't got time to do. Do that much right now, but someday I will, but. So tip of the cap to you for being able to travel out West. It looked wonderful.

[Bubba]

Well, it's been on a bucket list. And I thought, you know, I've put it off long enough. It's just time to get it done. As I was telling you before we start, I'm really into the fun mode right now. Gotta be, you know, with these. You keep seeing, you know, people passing before their time and I lost a good friend last week. You know, we gotta. We gotta make hay while the sun shining, you know, and life. Oh, you ain't joking. You ain't joking. Well, Joe, you. You and your podcast, I tell you're going and blowing. I saw recently voted the top true crime podcast, and true crime is, last I saw, the top genre in all of podcasts. So you. I mean, you. You demand. You demand.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

It's. We're topping in a couple of areas, not overall, so I can't take total credit for that. But, you know, um, I give a. I give a big shout out to our. Our good friend Dave Mack, which, you know, I know you go back with Dave.

[Bubba]

For years, we competed against each other. We've been friends, we've competed against each other, we've worked together, so we've done it all.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, he co hosts with me and I love that boy. And we. We have a lot of fun.

[Bubba]

He does a good job.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

He does a good job for you. And my Lord, he's got a voice made for radio, doesn't he? And, you know, he's been. I don't know.

[Bubba]

Well, there's an old joke about that in tv, but I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna take that shot. It's too easy, you know?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Well, fans call us the Silver Foxes together, so our Democrat.

[Bubba]

I can get in there with y',

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

all, our demographic list more toward the area that would appreciate silver hair. But. Yeah, so. But Dave, you know, he's. He's been in radio since he's 14 years old, and so I just.

[Bubba]

He's done it all.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Marvel. I sit and marvel at what he does, what you guys do in radio, relative to production and all that stuff. Because I don't know anything about it. You know, I'm just. I'm just old, poor old country boy trying to get by, talking about forensic science.

[Bubba]

Listen, you've jumped way ahead because when we started, we had to take reel to reel and cut it with a razor blade and tape it. That's how we did an edit. I mean, imagine. I can't imagine now how we did it.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

You got to. You got to want to be there.

[Bubba]

Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Joseph Scott Morgan is with us. And Joe, you, You. Let's just start with your most recent podcast. Yeah, Very, very interesting. Michael Jackson. We all know what happened to him, but you laid out. You and Dave laid out the timeline of that. Walk us through that a little bit. This guy, the doctor, and I'm almost using that in parentheses. He. What was he thinking with this? This. I know when you get to Michael's level, all you have around you is yes men, because if you, if you go against him, he gets rid of you. Now, Michael, like a lot of other people I know, will tell you they don't want yes men around them, but they do, because everybody they got around to yes man.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah.

[Bubba]

And, yeah, this, this cost him his life.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

It did. And, you know, that's part of it. I went through this with Matthew. I can't remember the guy from Friends. I covered that case, you know, Perry.

[Commercial Voice]

Yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And he had drugs that were being supplied to him. And, you know, I know people hear you hear what you said and that said a lot. And I don't think people fully appreciate the world that some of these folks live in, and they, they require that kind of attention. And, you know, as much as they want to go on and, you know, say, well, I'm. I'm just the same as I was, you know, of course, you know, with Michael Jackson, he led a weird life anyway. And I'll say that, you know, ever since he was a young. And, you know, I mean, you know, just not being indulged as a kid, matter of fact, that he beat him on a regular basis and to drive him towards success. And when you hit that, hit that thing, you're going to surround yourself, whether it's a gardener or a plumber or cook or a chauffeur or in this case, bubba, a physician. When you get out there in the thin air and you know you've got back problems, you've got. Your hair has been burned off and you're experiencing pain with that, all these other little things. Not to mention the pressure of the anxiety and not being able to sleep. I know. I think you've mentioned it before. I know I've mentioned it talking about going to surgery. And when you think about that dreamlike state, you know, they'll give you that one, one little bit, you know, like to kind of relax you, you know, when you're in the prep area. And then all of a sudden they'll say, hey, you're gonna, you're gonna feel something cold in your line and say, once you start to count back, you know, I think the furthest I've ever made is like 94 maybe.

[Bubba]

Yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And he's getting, he's getting this on a regular basis.

[Bubba]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And this is an anesthetic drug that is used in major surgery. And your boy was resistant to it.

[Bubba]

Yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And, you know, and I can't. And not to mention he had benzos on board, you know, anti anxiety medications. There was a whole litany of things. But what it comes down to, and the reason I wanted to cover this, other than the movie had come out, now I'm going to be completely transparent about that because a lot of people have forgotten, you know, that his death is a homicide. Yeah, people have forgotten about that. Yeah, that his death is a homicide. And you have to dig in to the marrow of this thing to understand and work it and view it through our lens and forensics and investigations as a homicide. Because no matter what kind of thin air you get into, how successful you are, you're still a human being. And the way we define homicide in the pure sense is death at the hand of another. And I don't ever use term murder. I don't like it. It's a lawyer's term. I like homicide because it's very clinical. Anybody can commit a homicide. You know, you've got. If you're on. On death row and they execute you, that's homicide. You know, people don't look at it that way.

[Commercial Announcer]

They say, what?

[Chorus/Backup Singer]

What?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Well, it's not accidental. They take their own life.

[Bubba]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

It's not natural. So death at the hand of another is a homicide. Well, who's to blame? You know, where do you put this? And it's squarely on the shoulders of the, of the surgeon. Both.

[Bubba]

So the timeline. He had already been given a lot of very powerful drugs to go to sleep. He got in, I think you said, at 1:30 in the morning for a practice. He said he couldn't sleep. He was given a series of drugs. And he wasn't that big a guy. What'd you say, £130? At this point?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

At the, at the most.

[Bubba]

And he had, what were some of these drugs he was given well before he got to the milk, so to speak.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Before he got to the milk? Yeah, Like I said, he had the benzos on board, which are things like anti. Anxiety medications that he had on board that kind of knocked down. Knocked down any kind of. Well, let me explain more from pharmacological standpoint. The drugs that he has on board are going to slow your system down, right? So everything from anxiety to kind of rapid, rapid heartbeat, you know where you got the little rabbit harp, it's right now doing like this. So you begin to calm down and get into this kind of dreamlike state. The problem is, the problem is, is that if you're on these kinds of medications, a little bit is never enough and it begins to escalate. So his, his standard that he was on, okay, just in the precursor stuff that he was involved with, that standard would kill me, all right? Or you or anybody that's not used to having the stuff on board that's his daily life. All right? Now you begin to see, you begin to see if you're putting a case together, you begin to see this kind of ramp up toward the fatal event. And I'm not talking about in the immediate or the acute sense. I'm talking about also in how it had gone on for a protracted period of time. Here's the question you have to ask. How did he get the drugs? Who was monitoring him and the dosages that he is receiving? And there is, this is what kind of defies the imagination here. I think from a scientific standpoint, if you're a practitioner, you're a physician, you've been trained to do all this stuff like the administration of drugs and monitoring, monitoring subjects. How do you not know? You know, I used to have a buddy that when, when folks would do stupid stuff, he'd look at you and say, does your mind work? You know, and I would, I would ask this physician that question, does your mind work? You know, what were you absent on pharmacology day? Don't you understand, you know, what you're doing and how this is going to impact. You're talking about a little guy. Anyway, the dosages would take down an elephant and he has eased into this like a warm bath over a period of time. And so these drugs that are in his system are continually suppressing multiple components of his systems right along the way. So when you get to that fatal event, when you get to that fatal event and these drugs are administered to him and you know, he had a ramp up bubble where. And I think that we had talked about on the episodes, a lot of stuff runs together for me. So forgive me, but he had signaled this fellow a couple of times, you know, that he needed, he needed more. He needed more. He needed to be attended to. And it's a, it's a, it's a curious thing that he can't. And what it comes down to, he can't get to sleep now, which we have to have. We do. And let me kind of put it to you this way. When I was working as an ME Investigator, I spent most of my time particularly. Well, I did in New Orleans too, but in Atlanta I was on third shift. All right. And human beings are not meant to work in that environment.

[Bubba]

I agree.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

So, you know, all of our friends that are in law enforcement, nursing, firefighters, you know, all these people that are doing, pulling up and I mean people that are driving trucks, people that, you know, you, you get out there and you, first off, your world is not everybody else's world.

[Bubba]

Right. It just goes against your whole body system and Yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

I mean, even with your lizard brain, you know, there's something wrong. And you know, sleep is. When I was working, you know, the doctor gave me Ambien, all right. And even taking Ambien for me, I still, I didn't feel rested, you know, because I'd get home there when 911 happened, for instance, I had just gotten off shift in Atlanta and my son now, who, Who's a. So proud of. You've met Noah?

[Bubba]

Yeah, sure.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

He's a geo. Geospatial person up in Huntsville now. No, it's just a baby. He was like four months old. And I'd gotten home and I took an Ambien and Kimmy, my wife had said, because she watched it on TV and she said, I'm not going to wake him up, I'm just going to let him sleep. And that, that was kind of life that we led because I would wake up at about four in the afternoon, five in the afternoon maybe, and, and because I had to sleep, I had to get rest. But even, you know, even you don't really do, you know. And she, she knew that as it turned out, we got put on 12 hour shifts in the wake of 911 and we had to because they just, we didn't. You remember the crazy time?

[Bubba]

Oh yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

We didn't know what was going to Happen.

[Bubba]

Particularly for waiting on the next shoe to drop.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah. For public safety. In Atlanta, you know, they were saying Atlanta could potentially be a target. Which, you know, maybe it was. I have no idea. But, you know, you get into that rut. And with Michael Jackson. He's been in this rut for years, Bo. I mean, years just grinding like this. And. And of course, he was in the midst of a tour. You know, they're planning to go back.

[Bubba]

Yeah. About to kick off.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah. Yeah. And so he. He probably understands. At least he has an understanding. He needs to get rest. All right. Because this guy's a creative guy. You know, he's dancing and carrying on and doing all. You know that. And look, you only got so much gas in your tank, man.

[Bubba]

Yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And turned out poorly.

[Bubba]

So, Joseph, let me ask you this. I've always heard this, and I don't know, I've had several surgeries, and I've been told that when you are put to sleep, you don't really sleep like you normally would because a lot of the systems that would be working in your body to clean out, you know, your immune system works when you sleep. It's cleaning out the trash from the day that. That it really doesn't work like natural sleep, although we think we're resting. But your body is not really going through the cycle that it normally would when it's mandated. Now, is that. Is that tr.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, I think that it is. The circadian rhythms, as they're referred to as. You never get into that rhythmic sleep where your body has to go through multiple cycles. And I got to tell you, I don't know if you can testify to this, but as I've gotten older, you know, sleep is more difficult to come by. You know, for me, at least now I'll be sitting in my. Sitting in my La Z boy. And next thing I know, I've been asleep for an hour, you know, my dog's licking my hand, and I wake up, you know, but, yeah, sometimes at night, you know, I'll have trouble with that. And you never. And you still. You know how it is. And I know folks can understand this. You know, you wake up. You wake up tired, you know.

[Bubba]

Oh, yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And so your body has to have this kind of cycling through. Well, if you're. If you're in that state where you have a drug that's administered to you, like Propofol, you will not get into those rhythms. It just. It's that blackness.

[Bubba]

Yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And you know what I'm talking about.

[Bubba]

Well, it puts your whole system to sleep. The systems that are supposed to be working go to sleep too.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, there's.

[Bubba]

So Michael Jackson was. He was destroying himself with this routine.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

He was. And he was destroying himself because he had surrounded himself with people that would not tell him no.

[Chorus/Backup Singer]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

You know.

[Bubba]

Yes, man.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, yeah, it's, you know. Yeah. Go ahead, bro.

[Bubba]

Talk a little bit about the doctor himself. He was a cardiologist. He wasn't even an expert in putting people to sleep with this drug. He didn't have the equipment there to monitor and bring him back. I mean, that's why they have anesthesiologists. You know, the surgeon does not. They're not responsible for the patient being put to sleep or woke up. That's why you have a specialist that's watching that and monitoring every. They're awake, standing at your head, checking every second how your heart and your. Your lungs are doing on this drug. And. And this guy was putting him to sleep and, and going to watch TV in the next room.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, and that's. That's a terrifying thing, isn't it, Bo?

[Bubba]

Always.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

You know, because if you.

[Bubba]

That's not normal, right? I mean, nobody else does that.

[Commercial Announcer]

No.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Okay, just. Just cover that part.

[Bubba]

Just a minute.

[Commercial Voice]

If you go.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

If you go into a surgery suite, okay, and they will you in, right? And you're not asleep yet, obviously, but they might have you relaxed.

[Bubba]

Okay?

[Chorus/Backup Singer]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

When. If you just, Just do me a favor. If you ever go to get surgery, just look around the room and you will see all of the equipment and you will see all of the people in there, right? And so whether it's an MD anesthesiologist, or a nurse anesthetist that is in there, you realize how rigorous that training is. I mean, people think about brain surgeons and all of this sort of thing, but just anesthesiology, a standalone.

[Bubba]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

To make it through that training and what those people have to do in order to achieve those heights is mind blowing. Because it's something. To me, it's superhuman. You know, because they understand everything. They understand all of the machinery that's in there. They understand the subtle changes, right? And so you've got a guy who his, I think, I guess his sole patient is Michael Jack. He doesn't even have a crash card in there. So if you like, one of the things that you have to keep in mind, like in a surgical environment or if you're on ICU or whatever, they have crash cart where they can run a code in case you go into.

[Bubba]

I've heard them test It. I've heard them test it before I go to sleep, and I'm like, you know, it's a little unnerving when they're over there.

[Commercial Announcer]

It is.

[Bubba]

But they actually fire it off to be sure it works.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Well, they have to. That's one of the reasons, like when we go into surgery. You go into surgery, right. And they'll put the leads on you.

[Bubba]

Right, Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

You got the leads. So they can plug you in and check, monitor your vitals. Right. And then they're monitoring everything. They're doing pulse ox, which is like your. The oxygen levels in your blood.

[Bubba]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

They're checking your rhythms. You know, all of the stuff that's being monitored so very carefully. And that's. This is not. You're talking about some dirty old bedroom that he's laying in. And it was dirty.

[Bubba]

Rented house. A rented house?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, a rented.

[Bubba]

Not even Neverland.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

No, it wasn't. And there are these vials. Vials, plural, of these meds laying around, just kind of discarded, just laying about. Now, the one way the stuff has to be administered is through iv, which is intravenously. And you hang a bag on somebody. Well, the. The question is, did he have a bag? And was it. And they're talking about that this IV site is placed in his ankle. Okay. And so when it's pushed. When it's pushed, you've heard. You've heard the term. And this has floated around for years and years where they'll say, more. He said more milk.

[Bubba]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

The reason is, is if you've ever seen this particular drug, it looks like milk, right? Is that that thick? Thick. It's. It's off white. You know, when you see it. And this is.

[Bubba]

It looks like milk. I mean, it just looks like.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And that's, you know, and that's how he would have referred to it, perhaps. And no one knows, you know, for sure, you know, how. With what frequency he may have said this. But now you've got. You know, we think about. We watch TV procedural police shows, and we watch true crime. People watch true crime, and they think about. They think about weapons, right? And, you know, we think about firearms where, you know, people are firing a gun or using a knife or whatever it is. The. The drugs were weaponized at that point. Now, I know some folks are going to say, well, he didn't intend to do it. Well, you don't necessarily have to have intent to commit manslaughter, which is what this comes down to.

[Bubba]

Okay, well, I may not have an intent to start a fire, but If I pour gasoline all over the floor and I'm flipping matches at it, you know, kind of asking for it.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Right? Yeah, you should have known better, you know, all of us. And that's, that, that goes to the idea of reasonableness, which is something that they talk about, that lawyers talk about a lot. You know, is this a reasonable event? Is this a reasonable outcome, is a reasonable expectation.

[Chorus/Backup Singer]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

That he would understand this? Well, the further up you go in, in levels of education that physicians have to, you know, go to, your, your liability increases. You know, people go on and on about medical insurance. Right. And they are not medical insurance, but malpractice insurance. Well, there's a reason that's there. You know, you don't have the same expectation of a first year medical student as you do with somebody that might be a board certified cardiologist that has been in practice and they understand, at least at a baseline, what, how this is going to impact. Certainly he would have understood how, you know, from a pharmacological standpoint how this is going to impact this man's heart. You know, I say, man, we, we still, you know, in my mind, I still watch Saturday morning cartoons. I don't still watch them. I'm just referring back.

[Bubba]

Yeah, yeah, I had a great, I

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

had a great moment, you know, where we got the Jackson 5 cartoon. Right, right. You know, and everybody watched it when we were kids. You know, you still think of Michael Jackson as that. All right, right. But yet, but yet he, he was grown man. I mean, a grown man well in, you know, well, well into his midlife. This is not play time. You know, this is, this is hard, cold reality that he ran into at the hands of this man. That's reason he was found guilty. But you know, think about it. He went back to his home country, he's still practicing medicine, he's got a clean.

[Bubba]

You know, I heard that on your podcast and I just cringed. He got, he, he served a year and 11 months, wasn't it? Got out on good behavior, went back to his home country where he's running a medical clinic now.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, yeah, Lord, I know, I know.

[Bubba]

You're like me. I charge right in there to be traded. I mean, how, how bad do you have to be? I mean, is it him or somebody trained at the class at the Castro School of Medicine down in Havana? You know, I mean, who do you

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

pick taking this guy and say the voodoo priests cutting the heads off chickens and dancing around? I think I might take the voodoo guy.

[Bubba]

Yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Because, you know, this guy, this guy has got at least, you know, he's been convicted. Convicted of. Of. Of a homicide at this point in time. And I don't know, it's a matter of reading the room and not understanding that this guy's dragging his history with him. Right. So it's. It's. It's an interesting. It's an interesting case. I felt. I felt as though, Bubba, that. That folks. Reflectively, that's why, you know, Brother Dave and I did it because. Felt as though that it needed to. People need to be reminded. And I'm putting this. This is in a separate compartment from that.

[Bubba]

Kimmy was the executive producer on that episode. Is that right? Your wife?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Well, yeah, maybe her idea. You gonna get me in trouble.

[Bubba]

You know, that was a good. That was a great episode because, I mean, his Bob just passed $1 billion. I mean, they're already working on the second install of this, and it'll be just as big. And I saw the first one. I. I wish I'd have seen it more times because it was. It was fun. The whole theater was enthused. This guy, he had an excitement about him, but I feel like maybe that expectation and the weight of that put him in this situation that he could sleep and I. And eventually killed him.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, you can't. Who's. You know, it's like, you can't necessarily put yourself in those shoes relative to that element of his life.

[Bubba]

No way.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

You go down the dark road on all the other stuff and remember that the biography that's currently in theaters, it stops. It stops in the mid-80s. It doesn't go forward. And, you know, they don't ask those big questions. You know, one of the things I found interesting about that, that, you know, who was not involved in. Janet.

[Bubba]

Janet. Yeah, She's.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

She is completely absent in this thing. And I. Lord only knows what goes on or what went on in production. But it was Tremaine Son that played him. And I got to tell you, seeing this kid, it's almost like he could go on tour.

[Bubba]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

He did all of the dancing, he did all of the singing, according to what they're saying, you know, And I

[Bubba]

think Janet and Jermaine have kind of bumped heads on a lot of things, and I think Janet may have been the closest one to him, and she felt like Jermaine was just trying to profiteer off of it.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah. Oh, and latoya was involved in it as well.

[Bubba]

Oh, yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

So there you go.

[Bubba]

When you got that many. When you got that many brothers and sisters, you go have a wide range of opinions on everything and hard to get anything.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Thanksgiving be real interesting.

[Bubba]

Well, it was a great episode if you've not seen it. Joseph Scott Morgan body bags. Michael Jackson, you need to do that. Him and Dave do a great job breaking that down. The timeline, the exact drugs that were used. You know, I really had no idea that it was later the next day before the deadly drug was administered and then how long it was after he actually died that they even called. I mean Michael Jackson was dead when the paramedics showed up. And again this is part of the physician, and I use that term loosely, that was watching over this. It was a complete, the guy was in way over his head. He was a yes man. Shouldn't have never happened.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

No, it shouldn't have. And, but you know, even, you know, even Elvis had it. Yes man, you know, would never tell him. Would never tell him.

[Commercial Voice]

No.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And great performer Prince had it all of them all.

[Bubba]

And it gets, it eventually gets them all. I don't know, I don't know what it is that they all think, hey, I can beat the drug thing, you know what I mean? I'm above it now. You know, there's 14 other people we can document who's died from it that come from all backgrounds, all kind of music, all kind of entertainment. But I'm going to beat it. I'm going to play with drugs and I'm going to win. Never happened.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

No, it doesn't. And I got to tell you, and this is kind of a ghastly kind of thing to say, I guess on one level, but it's like I've spent a lot of time above an autopsy room over the years and guess what happens when everybody's body is opened up? Ain't no differences. We're all the same at a molecular level, cellular level. We're all the same in that sense. It's a great equalizer in that environment. And you see that ain't nothing, you know, there, there's, there's no Superman, you know, out there that it's going to get you. It's going to, that's the reality of death, right? And I've written about death extensively from how it's affected me as practitioner and you know, commented on it extensively and, and I know it sounds rather rote ham handed but the, you know, the reality is, is that death is great equalizer. It comes for us all. And we were talking early on that we're going to have fun, aren't we? We're going to try live our lives.

[Bubba]

We're going to try.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

We're going to be, we're going to be sweet people and be kind and long suffering and we're going to look for the joy in things and sometimes that's really hard. It's very, very hard. But it's, you know, it waits around the corner for all of us.

[Bubba]

Joe Scott Morgan Body Bags we will be right back with another case we need to talk about in just a minute. Stay with us.

[Chorus/Backup Singer]

It's Bubba on the Lake. Bubba on the Lake.

[Bubba]

On the water or off. Experience lake life to the fullest at Russell Lands on Lake Martin. Grab a latte at Bruce 63, linger over lunch at Fanny's or take in a Lake Martin sunset at Kalija Restaurant. Whether you're here for the weekend or you've made your home at the Lake Russell Lands is where community and the land come together. To learn more about upcoming events, visit Russelllands.com come see what Lake life is all about.

[Commercial Voice]

You know one thing I love about Buffalo Wild Wings? You can get wings with any of their 26 sauces and dry rubs for takeout and delivery. That's like bringing an entire B dubs home with you, which you can't do. I tried. I've knocked down so many walls only to then be told to halt construction because I'm not zoned to be a sports bar. Kinda just looks like a big pergola or something. Because of the lack of walls, at least these 26 sauces and dry rubs are available. To go Buffalo Wild Wings, let's go Sports Bar.

[Bubba]

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[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Well, I don't know that we're necessarily missing anything to this point. As a matter of fact, we've had kind of a, an addition as of as we're taping right now. So this previous week, ending this past Friday, we concluded. I say we. I don't have a mouse in my pocket. They out in Utah had a five day preliminary hearing. So all of the, a lot of the speculative stuff that people have been talking about for a period of time now, I think it's. What are we in 10, 10 months downrange? I think at this point in time, or maybe a little bit more. Pardon me. We got to see a lot of the evidence and hear from the people that were boots on the ground and that had been working this case for, for some time. They actually presented their evidence and got in the preliminary hearing, which kind of let me break that down to understand this was not a. All right. This was solely before a judge and it was open to the public and tip the cap to them for allowing cameras in here and you could hear, you could see.

[Bubba]

We love when they do that.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

We do. And there needs to be transparency in all of this. I know that term gets thrown around a lot, but, you know, when you don't have transparency, that's when there are always questions. And the country that we live in, you should be able to see and you should be able to hear what's going on. All right, so with that said, the preliminary hearing that took place over a five day period was so that the judge could determine if there was in fact enough evidence to move forward with a trial. There's been a certain level of disappointment, I think, because the world that we live in, people want stuff instantaneously. You know, folks say that all the time, don't they?

[Bubba]

They want to judge microwave. We're used to it as America give us a microwave or a drive through, you know.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Well, the judge BO was presented with so much data, okay, over you can imagine a five day period. Now you've got Tyler Robinson is present in the court along with his counsel. And then you've got the state, you know, that's making their case as to why he cannot be compelled on any level to provide testimony, you know, during this. And there were objections that were made all along the way. You know, duly noted stuff that they thought would prejudice the judge in this case because you're not doing this before jury. So just imagine, this is why I like to think of it. Just imagine, just think of an old fashioned milk bucket, all right? Big old metal milk bucket, all right. And you're filling this thing up with data, all right? Do you have enough? Do you have enough in that bucket? You know, I'll put you this way. In my opinion, from what I saw is slopping over.

[Bubba]

Yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Because they're. And the judge is not going to make his official ruling to move forward until September 1st. Now that's got people, you know, why can't he make it right now? Well, I'll put it to you this way. First off, he's not back in a jury room with 11 other people and they're going over evidence together. One man, right? So with this volume of data that they have, he has to go through every bit of the court transcript, every jot and tittle, looking over it, analyzing it and he'll make the determination. Now, odds are, you know, the money is on the fact that he probably will rule that this needs to go forward. And you know, just. I have seen cases with far less evidence, right. Far less even cases without bodies where you've talked about homicide that have gone forward. And you've got a lot, a lot here for him to go through. Just in some of the categories are digital evidence, which is extensive, everything from phone conversations to text messages. Then you've got videography evidence which we found that there's one particular view that was shown in closed court that they did not allow to be seen. And it's rather compelling, put it to that way. Then we've got the DNA evidence which is, I'll put it to this way, bubble, the DNA analysts that got up there and started talking about the numbers involved, right. With specific identity going back to bits of DNA that were collected. She was using terms, you ready? Octillion and quintillion.

[Bubba]

That's a lot.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

It is. And that's, that's a bunch. It is. And you know, when you get into, you know, with Robinson and then this roommate of his, you've got combined DNA that is being found. You know, there's a towel that the Mauser this 3006 was wrapped in. It's got both their DNA on it. And you don't know what you can't say, you can't say that the roommate was necessarily involved in it, but you can say that because of this intimate contact of handling the towel that, that transferred off that we, we also don't know what medium it was in. You know, was it blood? Is it some other body bodily fluid or is it touch DNA? You know, when we slough skin cells that transfers on it. Then we have ginod handwriting that's going to be part of this forensic handwriting. There was a note that had been written and Robinson allegedly called roommate twigs and. Or texted him, I can't remember which one, and said, look under my keyboard. And roommate went and lifted up the keyboard, pulled out a note and it said it was from Robinson, allegedly two twigs and said, I had the opportunity to kill Charlie Kirk. And I took it. And the roommate at that moment in time took a photo of it, folded it back up, stuck it back under the keyboard. Well, later on there's a evidence technician that's testifying and she said, went to the wastebasket and there's a partially burned note in a wastebasket and you can still make out handwriting on it. Another way that handwriting is going to be, that's going to come into this, I think, is that we've got. He'd taken a Dremel tool which was collected at the scene and had etched words into the sides of these live rounds.

[Bubba]

Right, right, I heard that.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And infamously, I think the one that had not been cycled out of the mouser because this is for folks that don't know. We've got, we've got, we've got bolt action rifles and we've got semi automatic and you have fully automatic. So this is a bolt action rifle, which means it has to be manually cycled, has to be cocked. Yeah, yeah, it does. And so you would cycle it out. And as you, as you cycle, you're pulling back and this ejects round, round was not ejected. So you had a spent casing that was in the top still seated in there in the chamber and it had not been ejected. Well, written on the side of that is, hey, fascist, catch this. And then there's multiple other writings on the intern on the rounds, the live rounds that were still inside of the weapon. Well, he'd taken a Dremel tool and had written on the size of this. Did you know that in forensics we can even take things. Or not we. But they, the people that are, you know, handwriting experts, they can actually take these etchings and match them up to writing. So that has all been collected. That will be something we'll hear about in trial moving forward.

[Bubba]

Is going to be pretty much a lock and key case. I mean, is there anything we're missing here, that would point to somebody else other than just a very disturbed young man.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

I think that from what I'm seeing in court, okay, it's going to be very difficult. It'll be a real uphill battle, I'll put it to you this way, for his defense team.

[Bubba]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Because the only, I think probably the only hope they have is if procedurally something was done wrong in the collection of evidence, the processing of evidence. Because again, you go back even to the DNA and Bubba, you know, those numbers are hard, hard, hard, hard to defeat. You know, any reasonable person that's looking

[Bubba]

at that and people know DNA now. It's not like during the OJ Trial where it was some kind of hocus pocus we've never heard of. I mean, it's been in so many TV shows. Everybody knows what you're talking about.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah. And if you like, one of my heroes is a guy named sir alec Jeffries. And Dr. Jeffries is fellow in Great Britain that saw the utility in forensic science with ut. I mean, with, with DNA. And as a matter of fact, he was involved in a very famous case called the Pitchfork. Pitchfork case over. And that's how, that's how DNA started. I was back in 1984, so ancient times now.

[Bubba]

I mean.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, well, I was on a show not too long. Well, it was a long time ago covering the JonBenet case. And we were talking about. And I was trying to give them an understanding of how, how far we've come relative to the sample that we need. You know, back during JonBenet, if we had blood, we would need like a significant amount of blood in order to retrieve DNA, you know, because it's a destructive test and you're, you're running through it.

[Chorus/Backup Singer]

Now

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

this you're talking about at a molecular level, almost certainly. Yeah. At a cellular level, we've come that far. And listen, by the time they pat me in the face with a shovel, someday we will have gone even further.

[Bubba]

I've never heard that term before, but that's a good one.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

I'm kids, my kids at Jack State, you know, I, you know, I tell them that they're going to behold wonders in the area of crime science that I can't even imagine and, you know, those sorts of things. So it's going to be a, it's going to be something. I think it's going to be real something to see what the future holds. But in this case, in particular with the Robinson case, as it applies to Charlie Kirk's homicide, it's, it's going to be a. An overwhelming amount of evidence. Additionally, the what, what you're looking at is also going to be what was found at autopsy. And this has been one of the big questions we did. Oh, couldn't connect. Studio, check your Internet connection. A vp.

[Bubba]

I still got you. Fine.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Okay, cool. All right.

[Bubba]

Yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Okay. Well, if you're, if you got me.

[Bubba]

Well, I did. There you went.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

I got a block right here. So I'll talk through it. Hopefully we'll capture everything. And my Internet is.

[Bubba]

But that was it.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

I don't know why it's saying this. I'm sorry.

[Bubba]

We'll stop there.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Says connected and secure. Okay, well, here we go in three, two. Well, bub, I got to tell you, the, you know, thing about it is, is that with, with what we're looking at regarding, regarding the ballistic evidence in and of itself, that round that was recovered, and I was surprised by this. We actually got to see images of the round that had been recovered at autopsy. And it did what I had predicted that it was going to do. This round fragmented. It's a frangible round, I think, which means it's. When I saw it, the image that I saw it had I think five different components. There's primary component where you can tell that the round is kind of mushroomed out. You can see the base of it. One of the big problems, and a lot of people made hay over this, but one of the big problems with round is they're saying that it cannot be included or excluded. All you can say is that this is a 0.30 round, which is.30 caliber. And they couldn't marry up the internal ballistics of this weapon that they have recovered. They couldn't marry that up with anything on the round itself, you know, because in, in, in a firearm we have what are called lands and grooves inside the barrel causes a round to spin. Okay. And that's what we call rifling. And so looking along the long edge of the.

[Bubba]

Hey y', all, it's HB we experienced some technical difficulties on the end of this segment, but we will pick up where we left off after this break. You are listening to Bubba on the Lake.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

One, two, three. We'll be right back.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Bubba]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Bubba]

We're back with Joe Scott Morgan. We had a Internet glitch in the world of podcasting. You're going to have that from time to time. But he's back with us and he was finishing up the conversation with Charlie Kirk because I, I wanted to ask you about Nancy Guthrie also, as that story has kind of fell off the front page a little bit. Go ahead and finish up with Charlie Kirk.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, so I think that the kind of, you know, from my perspective as a medical legal guy, one of the things I was really interested in was seeing the ballistics and you know, we've heard, heard quite a bit about potential weapons that were involved. Were there more than one weapon positionality of the individuals doing the shooting? And I could go into great detail talking about this, but just suffice it to say, one of the things I was really surprised by Bubble was the fact that we got to see the image of the round that was recovered at autopsy and it did precisely what I had predicted that it was going to do. It had fragmented and it was in, I think, five separate components. You had the primary component, which is the base of the round. That's how they were able to determine that it was in fact a.30 caliber. But everything else kind of blew apart with it. So they were not able to look at the striations that we commonly see on the side of a round where you've got the twist that are implanted on the side and you can marry that up to the actual barrel. They could Neither include or exclude this round. So you can't get a perfect match relative to the ballistics. But we can understand the terminal ballistics of this round that entered. Entered Charlie's neck and how it kind of came apart. And it's. It's devastating. 30:06 round is incredibly devastating. But it was meant to be devastating. It was created. You know where we get the ought six from is it came out in 19 ought six and it was primary round that was used by the Doughboys during World War I. And when Papaw got home from World War I, that's when it took off in popularity because everybody used it as a deer hunting rifle. People. It's been around forever and ever. This was a mauser platform weapon firing. 30:06 bolt action. And we'll hear more about it. A bit of controversy arose relative to the fact that they accepted yet all these other. All these other experts that were having to provide comment on their reports. Well, the medical examiner submitted a report but was not compelled to appear, which I found kind of interesting in this preliminary hearing. But the autopsy report, which we have not seen, it's not available to the public at this time, was exactly admitted into that bucket I was referring to.

[Bubba]

Right, right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

So they will testify and they're going to talk about the devastation of this round.

[Bubba]

Joseph Scott Morgan, Body Bags, one of the top podcasts in the country. He's our guest today. Joe, update us or is there an update on Nancy Guthrie? I mean, that this thing captivated the country for weeks and it just seems like nothing ever happened. I mean, where are we at on this? I know she went back to work, right? I mean.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, yeah, she did. Savannah did. And you know, she's big buddies with. With. With Nancy. Nancy Grace, who I work with extensively. That was one of the big pushes on Nancy's part. Nancy. Nancy Grace to cover the case because she had such a long standing history with Savannah. Had worked with her on Court tv as a matter of fact, when Savannah Guthrie was a lot younger. Pardon me. And so, you know, I appear on Nancy show, you know, three times a week, most of the time maybe two. And. And we have covered it day in and day out. And bubba, it is no further along. Okay. And that's. That's a real problem. I do not hold back on what I say. I think that she is in fact no longer with us. I think she deceased. I think that she was probably deceased not too long after she was taken from her home. I love my. All of my friends in law enforcement, I do, but fellas you screwed up, screwed up bad. He flew this plane side of the mountain to from jump street because there was blood. Obviously it doesn't take a forensic scientist to say, yeah, we got blood deposition on the front porch of this lady's house. And they didn't secure it. They didn't secure it. And I think that that's indicative of how the whole thing has gone. Everything from timelines to placement of her to people that may have been in or outside of her circle individuals. It just seems like the thing was so fragmented and you know, I. There. There have been several searches that have been done. There's even been, I think probably since in the last month, one of the things that kind of came to light was fact that there are search teams in Mexico and they're volunteers because, you know, the folks down there, to put it mildly, they have a problem with people going, disappearing down there.

[Bubba]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

There's a group, there's a group of ladies down there and God bless them that walk around with sticks. That's what they do. They kind of form a line. You know, in the army we used to call it policing line. We line up shoulder to shoulder, pick up trash, you know. And so they're walking through this area. This same group actually discovered a mass grave of 25 people and cartel.

[Bubba]

Cartel type thing, probably.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, yeah. And. And it's just as what they do. And there has been some speculation that she may have wound up down there. Well, she wound up down there. It's going to be very, very difficult. And for folks that have never been to Southern Arizona, brutal in it. There's a whole lot of it, buddy, and everything looks the same. It's not like being down in southeast. And yeah, you could say you dump me out in the middle of pine forest or whatever, I'm going to be able to find my way out down there. And you know, when you're on that, on that terrain, it's beautiful in a certain way. Really hot, but it's really beautiful, particularly sunsets and sunrises and night. You've never seen so many stars in your life. But let me tell you something, it is unforgiving. And you walk through that area, everything is like looking. Looking for a needle and stack of needles. And I, I'm going to have a real if I will be surprised if they find her remains, whoever did this once she died. I'm wondering my big question as forensic scientists, did they take time to actually do bury her remains or what? She's what's referred to kindly putting this as a Surface deposition, where they just kind of laid her out there.

[Bubba]

Right, right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And just left her abandoned. And yet people do that. They do it on a regular basis. More tons of cases like that over the years. And so this is going to be a real uphill battle.

[Bubba]

How? I mean, if even a casual viewer of police shows knows they secure the crime area and they get mad when the star of the show that may not be an official policeman crosses the line and you can't look at evidence and you can't play with it, and, you know, you can't even be in the room. We got a guard blocking it. How in real life does this even happen now?

[Commercial Voice]

It does.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And let me tell you something.

[Bubba]

How can this happen? I mean, doesn't anybody go secure the area? I mean, what, what, what is that?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, you would think they would. And kind of like. Well, just like with JonBenet, you know, they. You go into it, working the case as if it is actually a disappearance and you're trying to find somebody.

[Bubba]

Right, right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

You're not working in as a homicide. And I'm kind of partial because I'm a death investigator. I think you ought to work all these cases involving an individual as if this is in fact a homicide and

[Bubba]

let it prove that it's not.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Bubba]

From your standpoint.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and look, if criticism follows, follows after that, because we worked it that way. God bless you. Carry on. But let me tell you something. There's a higher probability you're going to recover more evidence if you view everything as a homicide.

[Bubba]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And that's an old adage that we have, is every death is a homicide until proven otherwise.

[Bubba]

Yeah.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And of course, they're not thinking she's dead, but when you see biological deposition on the front porch, and going back to what you said about crossing the tape, you know, where those images came from. Where it came from. My buddy Brian Enten, who works for News Nation, he walked up on the porch. They didn't have things secured. He's a reporter. He took those pictures. That's the only reason we have them. And he took them, you know, right there, standing there. And you. I could even make out specific detail from a blood deposition standpoint of what I think origin was, how it was deposited, and then they didn't get the. The cctv, you know, from the ring cam. They didn't capture that until days later. They could have, Bubba, in my opinion, if they had locked that thing down. Did you know that when you see that guy, what they refer to as the Front porch guy walk on to that surface, right. She had. Like they do in Southwest, they have these ceramic tile, you know.

[Bubba]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. They make good prints.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

They do, right? They do. And you can actually see the grids that he's stepping on with his feet. And here's the thing about it. If they had locked that scene down, got that cctv, did you know, you could have. They could have done electrostatic lifts on those individual squares and lifted a footprint off of those. That. That's so easy. It's so elemental. And they missed that train left the

[Bubba]

station and they could have got the size, the type of boot it was and you could look where those boots had been sold.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And also the wear pattern. Like, how does this person walk? Because one of the things that they do now is called gait analysis. Like, yeah, step. When you step, you work, you walk in a particular way.

[Bubba]

Look at the bottom of your own shoes. They don't wear. If you have any. Any problem with your walking and me being a big guy, we used to pronate all the time. Yeah, you know, that's what I do now to see if I'm walking better, if the wear across my shoe is even versus inside more than outside. And, you know, it's just amazing to me that they. They don't cover that. Joe, let me ask you this and we'll move along because I know time's getting away from us. We both work for Jacksonville State University and you're over the forensic program and they have added a lot and done a lot with that lately based on you and your expertise and you guys and the students there, have been part of helping solve some things lately. Tell us about that.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, we had a great victory this past spring. And matter of fact, Othram Laboratories, who we have partnered with in this particular case, they're actually coming to Jack State shoot a documentary about this. And we're very. They have a channel on YouTube called Solved and Othram is down in the Woodlands, Texas, and they take and. And build out a forensic. Forensic genealogy. And so what we were able to do, we had a case that came to us out of Etowah County, Alabama, where we had a fellow that had. And let me get this straight, I don't want to talk out of school here. He either had eight or nine different aliases and he had been living with this gal since like 1982. She didn't even know what his real name was. And they had parked themselves in Etowah county having lived in other locations.

[Bubba]

Good girls.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And he had Told her, admitted to her. He said, you'll never figure out. They'll never figure out who I am. Guess what we did.

[Bubba]

Yep.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And I just presented this at. At Crimecon back in May. June, June, I think in. In Vegas. Myself and David Middleman presented it and our students worked case. We actually, you know, we have a morgue facility now at Jack State and where we do pro sections that actually dissections, but pro sections. And we had the body brought there and I was able to harvest in front of all of our students that got to work this thing. I got to harvest bone from the body and we got to. They got to prep it, wrap it up, and that's in my medical legal class. And sent it off to Othram where they were able to build out profile. In addition, we have a cold case class that put together this massive portfolio of all of the. Everything that had been done on the case. They even began to run down leads. This guy had multiple Social Security numbers. He even had one Social Security number that came back. Let me get this straight. Came back to a Haitian lady that was living in Cambodia. That's how many different twists and turns this thing had. And our kids were able to participate in this. And kind of, it's. You know, you can stand up at a lectern and you can talk about the way you should do it, but when you have kids that are there and they're right, they're actually seeing this happen in real time. You can see this kind of rise up within them and have them get really excited about it. And we were able to get the guy identified and get his family notified, which is kind of remarkable. They're up in Pennsylvania and they, the. The siblings that are still alive. And get this, Bubba, they said, we thought he was dead. We hadn't heard from him in 50 years. I hadn't heard from him in 50 years. And he had, had. He had said that things like he had graduated from high school, from Malibu High School in Malibu, California. He was living down in Florida. You know, he lived all over the place. Multiple names and changed them around and all these sorts of things. But. Yeah. And so the goal that I put forward at Jack State and have asked my colleagues to enjoin with me in this. I think that if you're part of a community like we are at Jack State and you service a region. We have a region that we service most universities do, and ours is depend upon who you talk to. It's 14, 15. I've heard people say 18 counties. Right, right.

[Bubba]

Well, it covers Lake Martin, I'll tell you that.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah. So one of the things that we, we always say is that we need to take care of our people right in the area, that we service them and are that we provide services to and what better way. So what we've purpose to do, if we have unidentified bodies, and I don't care if it's a homicide or a natural death or whatever it is, if we. We have tried to crowdfund through foundation at Jack State the money that it would take for Othram to do the building out the tree. Okay. And the results of, you know, this is the first one. We've got a couple other ones targeted. So we're going to choose cases from our little region that we service to try to help our folks out, you know, because those people help us out. They help us out.

[Bubba]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Primarily by sending their kids generationally to Jack State. We're a generational university, you know, and I know you've met people that, you know. Yeah, my grandpappy, my great grandpappy, you know, went to school there. And so it's one of these kind of familial kind of environments. And we feel like, at least I do, you know, there's not too much I can do to, you know, to service, you know, the community. This is an area that we dance in and it helps our kids to understand how to work in investigation. So we're going to be looking at cases where we have unidentified remains. Might be a box of bones that are sitting on shelves somewhere in some county coroner's office. We can get. Get our hands on the bone. We can harvest. We can harvest DNA from that, send it out to Othram and have them look over it and, and build out a tree and find out if they got kin folks still around. Wouldn't that be great?

[Bubba]

That's amazing. That's amazing. Joe, when, when you were on before, you had mentioned people emailing and asking questions. Number one email by far was, can we get a tour of the facility at Jack State? Do you do tours? How does that work? I have no idea.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, it does. It does happen. You would need to. To reach out to our, to our office administrator and she can, she can make that happen. We. We do. It would have to be small groups. We can't handle like a lot. And plus, believe it or not, school's about to start back right next few weeks.

[Bubba]

I know.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

And so you're. Yeah, you're stepping, you're stepping over students, you know, and everything. So it would have to be timed Just right. But yeah. And no, we don't show bodies. So that's. If that's what you're looking for, that ain't going to happen. But we can show you the facility. We have a trace evidence lab. We have the morgue. We would take you through it or, you know, the. You'll see the coolers, the whole nine yards. We have blood splatter lab, we have trace evidence lab. We have a casting lab, you know, where we cast footprints and. And wow. And do fingerprinting. We have an active crime.

[Bubba]

I've got to get to. I haven't had to tour yet. I got to come get to tour.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Come on, man. I'll ask you to bring me a cup of coffee when you show up. Preferably Duncan. That's what I want. And so, yeah, so it's the crime scene. House is something else. It's actually built on within the building. And we've got a. A again, I don't want to talk at school. 8. Eight room apartment that's got a bathroom, a laundry room, a kitchen, a living room, bedroom, obviously bathroom, an office, like so that we can work cases that might.

[Bubba]

You can recreate a crime scene.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, we can. We're going to install cameras in there so that the instructors can stay outside of the room while the students are working the case and you can cope. It's like watching film with, you know, football practice or whatever. You go back and say you screwed up here. You know, this is where you need to go back.

[Bubba]

And that is amazing.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, it really is.

[Bubba]

I never have thought of to do it that way, but you guys are doing it and that's. I mean, that's where the students are going to get the most impact hands on. And then you can review what they do. I mean, really, football is such a part of our culture. I think anytime you steal something football's doing and put it into your world, you probably do it because it's at such a high level. You know, it works for even what you're doing.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

It does. There's an old adage and, well, it actually applies to medicine, particularly in big cities that have training hospitals. It says, see one, do one, teach one. And so it's the idea. And you don't learn. You don't learn by sitting back on your hands. That's why I'm a big proponent of us at JSU adopting the applied science model, so that it's not something that you do out in theoretical space. So that when our kids walk across that stage, they get that sheepskin in their hand that they're going out into the world. They can see, they're ready to do something. Yeah, yeah, I understand, at least at a rudimentary level, how to process a scene, document a scene, collect evidence. And, you know, we have two tracks. We have what I call our field mice, which are the kids that go out and work as crime scene investigators in the field. And then I have our lab rats, which is the second. The other. The other track that they're on where they're the white coat scientists, the bench scientists that, you know, training in DNA and toxicology and all sorts of things. So they're gonna do that. Yeah.

[Bubba]

You know, Joe, it kind of makes me want to come back to class. I don't say. I don't say that much. Okay. Because I didn't like the classes I went to, but, I mean, that is so.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Like my class either.

[Bubba]

So. Now, this is so interesting, though, and. And in the way you're describing it, Joe. Scott Morgan, body bags. Joe, I know you got to go. Thank you so much for taking time to be with us. And we want to do this again. There's so many other topics we want to hit on.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Oh, yeah.

[Bubba]

And it's so interesting. I've got to come get the tour, and you got to come to the lake for a day.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm ready. I'm ready. Particularly if you put me on some fried catfish somewhere and smash puppies.

[Bubba]

I'm going to give you. I want to give you the floor here for the final word.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah.

[Bubba]

You got a lot of things upcoming. Some of it you can't talk about. I know anything you do want to share or tell everybody to be on the lookout for.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Well, we're continuing to develop body bags. I think the most exciting thing is, is that for the first time, I guess it's right. At the beginning of summer, we transitioned over to YouTube. So we have a YouTube channel. And just since we started it up, I think I checked the numbers this morning. I think I'm about to be at 27,000 subscribers and very excited about that. We, as you know, it's hard work. It's not easy. We're very proud of that and the progress that we're making. I've got several projects that I'm involved with that, like you said, I can't necessarily say anything about them now, but I ask each and every one of you to keep your. Keep your ear to the ground, and we'll. We'll. Information will be disseminated and a quick. A quick shout out to my friend Stephanie Lydecker at KT Studios tomorrow, which is Tuesday, right?

[Bubba]

I think most states.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, most days. There is a program that is premiering on Amazon called Murder 101 and it's about a high school class up in East Tennessee that the class was tasked with solving serial killings. And by their end it worked really. And there's a documentary, KT Studios, which I've been involved with them for years. I've done everything from the Idaho murders to the Piketon massacre, which I was deeply involved in up in Ohio, to Murdered Missing in Montana, which is about indigenous girls that go missing off tribal lands. I've done a lot of work with them on radio True Crime tonight. Just on and on and on. I cannot recommend this highly enough to you if you are interested and True Crime, if you're interested in seeing a group of kids in rural South. In rural south working a case and getting answers. Murder 101 is the name of. So check it out. I cannot recommend that to you highly enough.

[Bubba]

Oh, that's awesome, Joe. Scott Morgan's been our guest. Body Bags is his podcast. You'll see him on cnn, Fox, Nancy Grace and some other things coming up. Keep your ear to the ground. As he said. Joe, thank you so much for being with us on Bubba on the Lake.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

There you go, Bubba. God bless. Where's Bubba? I'll tell you where. He's on the lake.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Commercial Voice]

Mmm.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Commercial Voice]

You know one thing I love about Buffalo Wild Wings, you can get wings with any of their 26 sauces and dry rubs for takeout and delivery. That's like bringing an entire B dubs home with you, which you can't do. I tried. I've knocked down so many walls only to then be told to halt construction because I'm not zoned to be a sports bar. Kind of just looks like a big pergola or something. Because of the lack of walls, at least these 26 sauces and dry rubs are available to go. Buffalo Wild Wings, let's go.

[Bubba]

Sports bar on the water. Or off. Experience lake life to the fullest at Russell Lands on Lake Martin. Want to know what's going on around Lake Martin? Check out the calendar of seasonal events that include Fridays on the green, naturalist events, fireworks, concerts, poker runs, boat shows, juried art shows, boat parades, and much more. If you're here for the weekend or if you've made your home at the lake, Russell Lands is where community and the land come together. To learn more about upcoming events, visit Russelllands.com come see what Lake life is all about. Welcome back, everybody. We're glad to have you. And we really appreciate Joseph Scott Morgan stopping by spending time with us folks. He's in high demand and keep an eye on, on him and his career. There's big things coming. The podcast is called Body Bags. He does it with Dave Mack, who is an old friend of ours and they do a really, really nice job. So we, we look forward to that. We're running a little late, but I did want to get all that in and we appreciate him taking time to be with us. One other thing right quick. I posted this online, but I thought this was really cool. I got a text from my friend Matt Reams. He is the owner of Triple R in Rockford, Alabama. And some of y' all saw this online. Says, hey, brother, I hope you're doing well. Just thought I would let you know we're on a mission trip in Fairbanks, Alaska. Stopped at a restaurant. Your name was one of the first names that they mentioned to ask if we knew. And we told them that we did know you. And we text you and say hello. It's a. It was at a little restaurant outside of North Pole, Alaska, called Little Richards. And they actually had sent a picture of the spatula. I don't think this was actually in the restaurant, but may have been one of the people there. But it's, I mean, how cool is that? I looked it up. It was like 3,600 miles from here. And for people to still remember the radio show, that is so awesome. Fairbanks was a great market for us. We were on there many, many years. I want to say close to 15 or 20. It was one of our best affiliates. And you have to ask the question, why in the world would the show be so big in Fairbanks? Well, there's a lot of people from the Southeast there. There's a lot of people in the oil business, a lot of people in the military, and a few of them, quite a few of them come from the Southeast. So they were, they were our folks, to say the least. So Anyway, we appreciate Little Richards and if we get to the North Pole anytime soon, we're gonna go by Little Richards and have us a meal. Got a lot of great comments and apparently quite a few of you have been there before, which was. Which was kind of crazy. So we appreciate that. Also, we're going to try to get the guy or his family that was in the Tesla mentioned it earlier. I don't think I gave the whole story, but he basically was driving down i20 and had a heart attack and was struggling to stay conscious. And he called his son on the phone. His son was a authorized user of the Tesla, told it to carry him to the hospital, put it into Mad Max mode, and the. The man was saved at the hospital. Normally if you pass out and you're driving it will pull over and call 911 and give them your location. But in this particular case, it would have been too long. So I wanted to mention. I can't remember if I mentioned it at the beginning of the podcast or not. If I did, excuse me, but I just thought that was really, really cool. The Michael Jackson Bop has now passed $1 billion. How about that? That is the largest grossing bop ever now. So that. That. That is really cool. Folks. Thank you for being with us. I hope you enjoyed Joseph Scott Morgan catch his podcast Body Bags and remember, we are broadcasting from the Melliela Studio. Our website is bubbaonthelake.com and if you. If you go to that website, you can see the Bub on the Lake part. You can see the Tailgate Tailgate show which we're going to be starting in August. And you also can get a link to the Rick and Bubba greatest hit. So the show lives on as long as you are enjoying it. Don't forget to subscribe, turn on notifications. We don't you to miss a thing and follow us on Instagram and all the social media. Thank you so much for letting us do this and being part of your world still. This is amazing technology and. And we love it. And as always, until we sail into port or as some people have suggested, tie off at the dock. Remember, God loves you and so do we. Thank you for being part of Bubba on the Lake. This podcast is brought to you in part by Russell Lands Coke Buffalo Wild Wings, Central State Bank, Dr. Thomas Dudney Sunrise Docks, Bice Motors, the Green Monster

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Fishing Lights B U Double B A

[Chorus/Backup Singer]

on the Lake hey, wishing I could listen to the show every day hey gotta hear what Bubba and his buddies gotta say on B U Double B A on the lake in the mellow yellow studio putting on a show Betty say what? She always on the go we got hunter bus sitting at master control don't wanna miss a moment Cause Bubba's got the flow B U bubble B A on the lake, hey. Wishing not to listen to the show every day hey. Gotta hear what Bubba and his buddies gotta say on B U double b A on the lake Hey. B U b A Hey B U b A Hey B U double b A hey B U double b A on the lake hey, hey, hey.