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- [00:01]
A
Anyone should be able to sell anything anywhere with simple tools that connect.
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B
Welcome back to another episode of Builders. As always, this show is brought to you by Frontlines IO, Silicon Valley's leading B2B podcast production studio. If you're bringing technology to market and want to learn from your peers, we have a library of more than 1200 interviews with Venture backed founders and marketers. Where they talk, all things go to market. Of course, if you want to launch your own podcast, we offer podcasts as a service to more than 80 tech startups. The idea there is very simple. You show up and host, we do everything else. Now, with all that said, let's jump into today's episode. Our guest today is Aaron Day, CEO of Amaze. Aaron, welcome to the show.
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A
Thanks, Brett. Thanks for having me.
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B
Of course. Looking forward to this conversation. And I'm excited because it's a bit different from most of the other companies that we talk to, most of the other founders that we talk to. So maybe just start off with a high level. What does the company do?
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A
Yeah, so the parent company is called Amaze holding and we do basically three things. So our main platform is a social commerce platform and we allow people to create very simple selling experiences inside of the most common social media platforms like YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Twitch, Discord, other platforms so that you can start selling something very simply at no cost. You don't need any inventory, you really don't need anything. You don't need an investment. You just have to have a community. In social media, we also have a business called TheFoodChannel.com, which is basically a food content medium. Think YouTube for food, so to speak. And then we have a small little wine business that we inherited when we went public called Fresh Fine Wine. Not really a major part of our business today, but it is a company that we own.
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B
And how many companies is that in total then that are part of this portfolio or part of the holding company?
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A
Yep. So there's four companies as part of the portfolio with the Amaze Commerce business, which incorporates the acquisition of Teespring and Spring as the major business business, and then Food Channel and then the wine business.
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B
And is that what you were expecting? If you go back to the early days, the founding of the company, did you think you'd be sitting here and say, yeah, we have a portfolio of brands? Like, what was the early insight that you were thinking for the company?
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A
I did not think that at all. I thought that we would be a traditional SaaS software company. I do have a bit of a P and E background, you know, in my prior life. But I really thought that we would be this company that launched a really cool software and we got a lot of subscribers and we wouldn't buy anything for a few years. And it just, you know, it just didn't work that way. Right. I mean we had some initial success in the beginning and lots of opportunities fell on our plate and a few of these things were just too good to pass up, you know, and we were able to buy them. Right.
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B
So what was the first company that you bought?
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A
Little company out of London called Outfits. And we bought it because as we were building the first sort of phase of social commerce engine, being integrated with companies like Bolt was very important and they had done a really good job getting checkout integration and catalog integration done. And it. So it's by buying them, it saved us a ton of time to get a lot more products into the stores that we were building. So.
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B
And tell me about Teespring. I feel like that's one of those brands that maybe it's just in my head like that seems like an iconic brand or I've known about them for a very long time. What was that acquisition like?
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A
Yeah, so it's interesting and you might have, I give you the whole backstory here because it's kind of an interesting story. So I spent three years working for Cliff Obrecht who is one of the co founders of Canva. And one of the things that we did really, really well at Canva was get Canva exposed to millions of people at a very low cost through very interesting integrations like FedEx and stuff like that. Right. So when I first launched Amaze in September 2021, we knew we had a software that would be very useful, very helpful to millions of people, millions of up and coming creators and small businesses. But you know, we didn't have a lot of money. So we kind of took some of the playbook of Canva and we started really, really actively looking for high volume integrations. And so I approached, in the spring of 2022, I approached the founders and the CEO of Teespring because I thought there would be a really nice opportunity for us to bring our engine into the ecosystem of Teespring. They had a very interesting business model. We approached a few other companies as well. And it was funny, Brett, within a couple months, every company that we approached that we thought had high volume distribution capabilities at a low cost for a maze all ended up needing to be bought. Right. They had gone through Covid. You know, they were in the middle of sort of the euphoria from a Covid, from this, the way the market had gone. And you could just feel that they needed a new model. Right. And so we basically said, look, let's buy Teespring. There's so much here. It fits into our model so well. The tech needed a lot of help. And look, we spent two years really, really working on it. Spent a lot of money to fix it, fix some of the underlying pieces of it. But it just was one of those opportunities where, you know, we knew it would help accelerate the reach of our software. Right.
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B
So can you tell us a bit more about the lessons from Canva? I think, yeah, I am a very active customer of Canva. I think everyone in our audience is probably using Canva. Can you tell us more about that go to market channel and that strategy that they were doing with integrations? That's really interesting. Yeah.
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A
So it's probably a story for the ages, right? I mean, I'm lucky. I got to be part of it and have some inspiration in what we did. So at the end of 2018, Canva was just really relaunching their next phase of their software for, and I think it's very public information. 2017, 2018. They spent two years rebuilding the platform with really, really good people helping them getting it ready for massive scale. So going into 2019, you know, they needed to launch enterprise and education and everything. And it was a much, much smaller company then. Right. And so what we did was we approached putting Canva in very, very high volume places. So we integrated Canva into FedEx and Office Depot and Staples on one side of the business and then the other side of business and social platforms. So Canva became, you know, if you think about it, FedEx had 65 million small business users. You log fedex.com and if you needed to create something for your small business, you would see Canva. Now, most of those small businesses at that moment in time use Adobe. But there's Canva sit right, embedded in the platform and it wasn't white labeled, it was Canva. Right. So you got exposure to it. So Canva picked up, you know, millions and millions and millions of users through these integrations. And what was really interesting about it was, yes, maybe for a period of time there was a little bit of brand dilution because you had Canvas sitting next to FedEx.com or whatever. But you got the value of the software, you got the value of the templates. Right. So instead of having to spend enormous amounts of money on paid Media and SEO and all those other things that traditional software companies do to get brand exposure. Canva got it through partnerships that paid them. Right? And at that moment in time, I don't remember ever seeing anything like it. What we did was so dramatic. And then by the end of 2021, Canva, you know, they pivoted, right? They didn't need. They had gotten so much exposure, so much brand awareness, so now you didn't need to continue with all those. So they kind of slowed down dramatically, those integrations. But during that period of time, I was a key member of that team, and I got to sit in front of a lot of companies thinking about an integrated design engine, right? And it really was an interesting moment in time.
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B
So this show is brought to you by Frontlines Media, a podcast production studio that helps B2B founders launch, manage and grow their own podcast. Now, if you're a founder, you may be thinking, I don't have time to host a podcast. I've got a company to build. Well, that's exactly what we built our service to do. You show up and host, and we handle literally everything else. To set up a call to discuss launching your own podcast, visit Frontlines I.O. podcast. Now back to today's episode. I mean, it sounds like a fascinating time to be part of Canva in general. I feel like they're just an interesting company. They're, like, I believe, moving very aggressively into enterprise. Is that fair to say, at least? The billboards I see all over San Francisco, they're trying to make the very aggressive claim or statement, like we are.
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A
It's 2019. Canva has been trying to move aggressively in enterprise, and they've made lots of mistakes and lots of good moves. And along the way, it's been fun to watch. I was there for the first three years of it. But what I love about the founders of Canva is that they're not afraid to set big goals. They make mistakes and they learn from them. Right? And they don't waste much time if they make a mistake. Right? Really, really good leadership in SaaS software and how you deploy something, you try something relentlessly, doesn't work, you move on. Right? And they've done it. Right. And so there's an army of people who were at Canva on the enterprise side who just didn't figure it out, and they kept trying. Right? So.
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B
And for you, going back to how you approach marketing, it must be pretty complicated, right? Because you have all these different brands, and then you're a public company, so you have to Market yourself to investors as well. What's the marketing strategy look like? Are those completely different strategies? Do they tie in together? What does that look like?
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A
Yeah, so it is because we've acquired a few companies, but at the end of the day, when I sit down with our CMO and we talk about it, we deliver one really significant piece of value to the people that we serve. Right. We give them a way to monetize when they really haven't discovered another monetization engine except for creating content. Right. So we are their first monetization experience outside of creating content. And that teaches them in a lot of ways how to become entrepreneurs. Business people. They get the first feel for, like, what real business monetization looks like. And that value is something that we can never. It's immeasurable, the value we create there. Right. So for me, that is, over time, what our brand is about. And so what's happening now, and you'll see enormous amounts of stuff coming from us between now and June, is we are now consolidating the brand of the business into one unified brand. And those acquisitions will become products or features, all sort of under the Amaze Commerce brand. So Amaze Commerce is the brand that people will know us for. And whether you come to us to sell something or buy something or a combination of both, the features that you see will be, you know, you no longer see cast or digital fits or any of these things that we acquired or partnered with as brands. They will become features of Amaze Commerce.
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B
So from a marketing perspective, that has to make it much easier to market. I would imagine it is.
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A
And it also, everything, SEO optimization, paid media optimization, brand partnerships, everything will become much easier now. But it's part of the process, right? We were building a company at scale. I mean, we just passed in January having 14 million users. So we now have. We have 14 million users with that have launched stores. We're still adding somewhere in the neighborhood of three to 4,000 a day organically at no cost. So there's still really, really nice growth in users going. We spend very little money in marketing to acquire users. So there's a lot of opportunity for the business. And we're really just getting started, Brett. I mean, we're four or five years into this thing, and in the scheme of things, we're just getting started.
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B
So what's driving that growth? That's an incredible organic growth to have pouring in. What's driving that?
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A
Well, the fundamental piece is the massive growth in the creator economy. Right up until last year, the creator economy Wasn't really understood. I think last year was the first year when everyone started to pay attention. You saw a massive expansion in affiliate marketing. Brands became aware of the power of the creator economy. The tech is getting so much better and the walled gardens are being tore down a bit. And that's a hard thing for me to talk about, you know, in a both a constructive way, but yet a forward looking way because you still have the walled gardens of YouTube and Instagram and TikTok all protecting their own, you know, sort of entities. But creators are across all of them, right? So you now, you know, if you ask any 9 year old what they want to be when they grow up, the chances are pretty significant they're going to say, I want to be a YouTuber, right? If you ask any 15 year old, what do you want to do? You know, I want to be like Mr. Beast, right? So it has become a prominent feature in our society and the reality of it is you can't continue to create content at scale if you don't monetize, right? So, and we are a core monetization part of that creator economy.
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B
So it's funny to watch like the shift I can remember back in like 20, what was it, probably 2010, 2012, something like that. My little sister was getting ready to graduate high school and she wanted to be like a creator and that's all she talked about. She went to someone like YouTube conference in LA and I remember just talking with my brother saying, you know, this is so stupid, like she needs to go out and get a real job. We didn't say that to her. That would have been bad, but like we were thinking that and actively talking about it and like, man, were we wrong. And I think there's a whole era, right, where everyone kind of like mocked this idea of like, you can't be a YouTube creator, blah, blah, blah, like creators are crushing now, they're doing very, very well and that seems very viable career path.
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A
Yeah, creators are crushing. But here's what's changed fundamentally. There was this concept of what I'll call a vanity creator that was predominant and people didn't take it serious. People said, well, that's just vanity content, right? But what's happened quietly over the last couple years is every small business, every entrepreneur, every nonprofit, you name it, right? And it doesn't matter what you are, you could be a woodworker, you could be a yoga instructor, you could be a healthcare enthusiast, right? You have learned that creating content about what you're passionate about can monetize Right. And it's why YouTube's doing so well. Look, I mean, look at how well they're doing. I mean, the amount of content that's being created, it's because it's not just vanity, it's instructional, it's educational. Right. So. And it is the way people connect with their communities now. Right. It's really, really important.
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B
different side of the world, but I've been beating the drum for a very long time that every brand needs to become a media company. It needs to think like a media company. Like, in our world, you know, we're in, like niche B2B technology, but we produce about a hundred podcasts all for B2B technology companies, and then, you know, podcasts like this for ourselves. So I think we're outlined there on that idea that everyone should be a media company and everyone should be creating content. I think the way that you enable people to monetize is super unique and really fascinating.
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A
Yeah. We were the first company in beta to integrate under the hood with TikTok shop in North America. And Sandy Hawkins, who was running the business, is on my board and one of the most amazing, intelligent women in social commerce you're ever going to meet. Right. And when I was working with Sandy and we were doing the integration, what I saw that TikTok was doing was this really, really interesting affiliate algorithm. And so what they do that most people don't understand is that if I create something on TikTok or in TikTok shop and I start selling it, not only do I accelerate the algorithm, but I accelerate the affiliate. And that means more and more people can sell the product that I'm promoting if they like it. Right. So what you do is you go from one to a hundred very, very fast in promoting a product. And so when you think about that and you think about every brand needs to become a media company and how it correlates every brand needs to become a media company, because a media company can take advantage of affiliate acceleration, that it's really a key topic. Right. And you can do it at a cost structure lower than anything you've ever seen before in history. Right. And it's why I believe in that more than anything today, because you hear creators talk about how important their community is, okay, their fan base, right. But platforms understand that the affiliate model is where the revenue is going to come from. And so you take both that pure aspect of building a very authentic community and a very close community, and you take advantage of the technology platforms, affiliate acceleration pieces, and you have a gold mine. Right? And brands have to understand that. Brands have to use that as they go forward.
- [15:47]
B
Do you view it as like, the word creator makes things almost more complicated sometimes? Because I feel like when I hear Crater, I think about, you know, an individual who's going to go out and, you know, create, I don't know, organic makeup videos because, like, they love organic makeup. Like, that's what I think when I hear Crater. And I'd have to imagine that others are the same way. But it sounds like, like there's a whole different market there too, as you were saying, right. It's every brand, basically, that's creating content. Every brand should be creating content. So it's effectively every brand and every company and every organization. Is that a fair way to phrase it?
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A
I think it's interesting. So I spent a lot of time of my life talking to people and explaining what a creator is, right? And you hear people say the content economy, the creator economy, the influencer economy. But the reality of it is, is that it really is the creator. I mean, and that person making content that somebody wants to watch and spend time viewing that content creation piece is really, really the gist of it. All. Right, so it is about the creator, right? And look, waitresses are creators, doctors are creators, you know, dentists are creators. I mean, it's coming from every angle. The term that hasn't been established and sort of unified around yet is just because you create content doesn't mean that you are a business, right? Because so many people create content. No one watches, right? So there's the magic of what I call creator is someone who actually finds the right formula and gets people to want to watch their content and builds that content community. That's a creator, right? In my mind, a lot of people just upload stuff that, you know, that is never going to be watched. Right?
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B
So, and final question. So I'm seeing that we're almost up on time and I want to get you out of here on time. What's the big picture vision? Where do you go from here? Take us out 3 years, 5 years, 10 years. What does this all look like when it all comes together?
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A
So for me, an amaze. And where we're going and you'll see is so much coming from us this year because we've spent the last two years taking all these companies we bought and bringing all the technology together. And now you're going to see one unified platform come out of amaze over the next few months. For me, as I go forward, I have this saying internally that I want to make selling easier than buying. And I have this vision that anyone should be able to sell anything anywhere with simple tools that connect. So what that means is I'm walking down the street, Brett, and I see someone wearing something and I hold my phone up and my phone, intelligent knows what that product is and I click that button and say, I would like to sell that. And I drop it into my content, which I'm already creating as a creator today. And immediately my audience sees that and some of my audience resonates with that because I like that they have an affinity towards me as someone they view content with. So my vision is, is that we are going to make selling stupid simple. And if I do it right, if we do it right as a company, we will massively disrupt affiliate marketing. The idea of saying, hey, promote my product on Amazon and get 3% of that changes to, hey, sell my product on my site and make 20% of that. Right? There's a model shift changing that we're driving, right? And so I need to make selling super, super easy for everyone if we're going to make that model work. And that's our vision, that's what we're pushing for.
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B
So what an epic vision. And just love the approach that you're taking. It's different, it's unique and it's refreshing. And love what you're doing. You'll have to come back on every year or so and just give us an update and keep us updated before we wrap here. For those listening that want to follow along this awesome journey, where should we send them? Where should they go?
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A
Well, first of all, it's the main corporate website is Amaze Co. We have all kinds of different social pages that you'll find there at the bottom of the page. If you're interested in what we're doing. You want to invest, it's up to you. But we're publicly listed on New York Stock Exchange and the ticker symbol is amz. So amazing.
- [19:14]
B
Thanks so much. Been a lot of fun.
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A
Thank you.
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B
Well, that's all for today's episode of Builders, brought to you by the Frontlines. If you want more amazing content like this, visit Frontlines IO, where you'll find a library of more than 1500 interviews with founders, marketers and other GTM leaders where we unpack the tactical lessons from their journey. And of course, as always, if you do want to launch your own podcast, we'd love to have a conversation with you. Visitors frontlines IO podcast as a service. Mention that you listen, mention you love the show, and we'll give you a 10% discount. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you in the next episode.