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- [00:00]
Cassie Johnson
You know, the times where I'm listing really consistently, there's a lag. You know, it's like four to six weeks after you start listing really consistently, I feel like is when you start to really see a big bump in your sales. And then if you keep going, it keeps going.
- [00:13]
Cody McGuffey
What does consistent mean to you? Is it like once a week? Is that like once a month? Is it five a week or ten a week?
- [00:18]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah. So for me, that's typically looked like at least a couple days a week. Another mistake that I see is people really overthinking their pricing and thinking that they need to price really low to be able to.
- [00:32]
Cody McGuffey
Welcome to Built online. I'm Cody McGuffey, and this podcast is all about one thing. Building the business of your dreams. Selling art, teaching classes, starting a blog, launching a brand. Whatever your passion is, we show you how to turn it into real income. I created Everbee to help anyone with a dream start and scale business. Ever be, ever be, ever be ever.
- [00:56]
Cassie Johnson
Be, ever be, ever be.
- [00:58]
Cody McGuffey
We now serve over 800,000 creators all across the globe. On this show, we bring on real entrepreneurs who've done it. They share their secrets, they share their failures, the exact steps that you can take to get started. What if you can get one golden nugget out of today's episode? And it's the breakthrough that takes you from just dreaming to actually living a life on your terms. At Everbee, we believe that every human is a creator, and every creator should own a business. Cassie.
- [01:26]
Cassie Johnson
Hi, Cody. Back in.
- [01:27]
Cody McGuffey
What's going on? Yeah. How are you?
- [01:30]
Cassie Johnson
I'm super good. And how are you?
- [01:32]
Cody McGuffey
I'm great too. We're. This is a fun one. First of all, welcome back to Built Online Podcast. This is a big one for us because this is our hundredth episode, which is crazy.
- [01:45]
Cassie Johnson
I got an email before this that I was your fifth ever episode. And now back for episode 100. So happy to be here. Congrats. That is a huge amount of time to be doing a podcast. So many episodes, so many great guests. Super, super cool.
- [02:01]
Cody McGuffey
Thank you for that. It's. It's been fun. Podcasting is kind of a funny thing. Like, you don't. If anybody asks, like, if you can get rich podcasting, if you can. I don't know how it is, how it works. I. I make. We make $0 from this podcast, and it costs us lots of money to. To produce it, which is funny, but it's worth it because you get to have super interesting conversations like. Like the one we're gonna have. Today, so super worth it.
- [02:25]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me back and hello to everybody who is listening at home.
- [02:30]
Cody McGuffey
Super cool. A lot of things I want to talk about today for. For anyone that who hasn't heard the first episode with. With Cassie. I think we've actually recorded twice but one of them maybe hasn't. I'm not sure. Anyway, we have one for sure that's live. Cassie said it's the fifth. I think technically it was our fifth, but it didn't get published until episode 22 on Apple Podcasts. So look it up. It's episode 22 and the title is from 0 to 350k per year. Building an Etsy Empire with Print on Demand with Cassie Johnson. Does that ring a bell? Cassie?
- [03:07]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah. Yeah, that sounds like me.
- [03:09]
Cody McGuffey
Yeah, that's two years ago by the way.
- [03:12]
Cassie Johnson
Wow. Yeah, time flies. I just had my 3 year youtubersary last month.
- [03:19]
Cody McGuffey
Insane. You said 2 year 3 and 3 year 214k subs on YouTube now.
- [03:28]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, yeah. Growing a really, really great community. That's been super fun. I actually got to meet someone in person for the first time the other day from our community and that was really fun. Just met them at like the hospital. They just happened to be at the hospital at the same time as me and recognize my voice. I didn't know you lived around here. So for anyone who doesn't know, I live in Michigan. So if you live in Michigan, we could run into each other at some random place.
- [03:57]
Cody McGuffey
That's so cool. How does that feel, by the way? When you have like somebody that's like, I don't know, just recognizes your work and then you run into like a random person and they're like, hey, you're Cassie Johnson. Like, it's, it's a little bit of, it's, it's fame. I mean, in a certain way and I mean that like in a. In a great way. It's like a cool micro fame type of way. How does that feel?
- [04:18]
Cassie Johnson
It was really, really cool. She said my videos were really helpful with her Etsy shop, but she's not doing it as much anymore, so I was bummed to hear that, but glad that I helped her while she was doing her Etsy shop. I know this isn't something that everybody decides to do long term, but it is really cool to see everyone's comments and stories and their own journeys with Print on Demand. I know I've made friends with a lot of people in the community who have quit their jobs to do Print on Demand and it's Just so beautiful be in a community of people with, you know, like, minds.
- [04:51]
Cody McGuffey
I completely agree. I think it's really, really special what you've built. I do remember I'm starting to get it more and more with. With ever be just as it kind of scales too. And it's. It's really cool to like when we bump into, like, people that happen to know whoever whatever B is, and sometimes they don't know who I am. They know what ever be is, which is even more cool. I think personally, I'm like, okay, cool. We're actually building something that's extending beyond me. That's pretty cool. But one time we were. My wife, we were looking at a house years ago for fun. We went. We go on dates and we grab coffees and then we go like on open house dates. Guys ever done that?
- [05:27]
Cassie Johnson
No, but that sounds fun. I love looking at super fun.
- [05:29]
Cody McGuffey
And you look at house like that are just like, way beyond. It's fun for us. Like, we look at. We would look at a house that's like, way beyond what we're even possibly affording for like, many years. Right? Which is the point of it is to kind of just dream and put yourself in that environment. And I remember talking to this agent and who was. Who was hosting the open house, and he was like, doing his job. You know, what do you guys do? And like, you know, starting the conversation and oh, we're in. I'm in tech. And like, oh, cool. What's. What's the company? And it's like, oh, ever be? And he's like, oh, yeah, my wife uses Everbe. I was like, oh, that's cool.
- [06:05]
Cassie Johnson
What?
- [06:06]
Cody McGuffey
Two years ago, world.
- [06:07]
Cassie Johnson
And two years ago. Wow.
- [06:11]
Cody McGuffey
It was the first time. When I got back in the car and we drove away, I'm like, whoa, we're actually doing it. Like, we're. It's, it's. It's doing. It's working. He was talking good things. Like his wife was saying good things about it. Like. And he's not even doing Etsy and like, his wife was doing it. It was so cool. Just the whole experience was really fun. So relating it back to you for.
- [06:33]
Cassie Johnson
Fun, you know, you made me think of it. And I haven't done that with my husband, but now that you say it, my parents used to take us to big fancy open houses when I was a kid to dream build. And I just so vividly remember this house. I could probably tell you almost the entire layout. It had like an indoor hot tub room. It had a home theater and then it had like a, a fake bookcase that when you opened it, it had like a safe behind it and it had this big chest filled with like fake gold, you know, and that was just so cool. And I do credit my parents a lot for my like, tenacity and my like, will to make stuff work. Because growing up they always had me read books like Rich Dad, Poor dad and the Magic of Thinking Big. And I'm trying to think there's so many that they had me read. And I feel like I just always knew when I grew up I was going to work for myself and I was going to make something happen. And I always believed that that was possible. And, and I think that as I talk to more and more people in this space, not everybody has that. So if you're sitting here listening to this and you're like, is this even possible? Like, can I do this? Is this for me? Like, it is. You just have to believe in yourself that you can make this happen. And I promise you can achieve anything. And so if you haven't read some of like the best books out there, doing some reading will definitely change your mindset for sure too.
- [08:06]
Cody McGuffey
I think that is so cool. And I think it's so cool that you're giving your parents credit like that too because it probably makes them so proud if they ever heard something like that from you. How much do you think it was your parents? Like, how much of an impact did that actually make you think? Them actually giving you that book, making sure you read it? I guess if they even made sure that you did, how, how important was that for you?
- [08:34]
Cassie Johnson
I think that was one small piece of it for sure. I'd say it was pretty important. But I think if you just handed your teenager a book and were like, read this and expect it to change their life, that's probably not super realistic. You kind of have to live it as well. So I think the reason why my parents were that way is they were in multi level marketing businesses. They were in Amway. And Amway like brainwashes you into thinking you're just going to be a millionaire someday, which isn't a bad thing. You know, like sometimes you need something to just go in your brain and let you know that that's possible and that it really can happen for you. And so we were always listening. Like we would drive to Florida from Michigan. It's like a, you know, 20 hour drive to visit my grandpa. And we would just listen to non stop motivational tapes. Eye of the Tiger with like guys talking that were like diamonds in the business, you know? So I feel like I've almost been, like, brainwashed into thinking I was going to be successful someday. And you know what? It worked. So it can't all be bad that a hundred percent.
- [09:35]
Cody McGuffey
I do agree that that is extremely important. I mean, we are the product of our environment. So, like you being raised in that environment, maybe your parents didn't quote, unquote, make it yet, but they were. They were trying to make it. They were almost like thinking that they were making it. And that's probably even more important, honestly, because you're kind of seeing them work. You're seeing them put in the effort to read the books, listen to the tapes while you're on drives. I mean, that stuff will brainwash you and program our brains into thinking, wow, like, we can do it and we are doing it. And that actually turns into reality, which is the craziest part.
- [10:09]
Cassie Johnson
You know, it's interesting. I'm reading finally the Feel Good Productivity book by Ali Abdaal. And I was reading a chapter last night in the very beginning. I just started it, but it's so good already, I'm literally one chapter in. So if you guys haven't read it, I would pick it up because I already would recommend it. And one of the parts of the book, and I'm not spoiling anything because it's the first chapter, he's talking about this experiment where they give you, like, a box of thumbtacks, a candle and a lighter, and you have to have the candle lit, but not leak wax onto the floor. And you have to put it on a pegboard or something, I can't remember. And the solution is that you use the box. The box of tax is like the creative part of it, where you actually use the box that the tax are in to, like, put underneath the candle to catch the wax. Right. But they did a bunch of tests where if they gave people in a room, like, a bag of candy before they tried to solve that problem, they were way more likely to have come up with a creative solution and used the box. Whereas if they didn't give them, like, candy or encouragement or something before, then they were, I think, like, 15% less likely to come up with the creative solution to the problem. And so I think there is a lot too, making sure that you, like, feel good, that you're, like, in a good headspace when you go to work. Because you can't just pull creativity out of nowhere. Like, that's something that is kind of like built and made over Time from your experience. And so I do find myself, like, based on my childhood, going back to the same types of things. Whenever I'm feeling not motivated or frustrated or, like, not feeling inspired, I'll go to YouTube and I'll find some kind of motivational YouTube video or something like this podcast. And if you can kind of start your work day in a really positive place and you feel really good about it, then there are real serious studies that this book is talking about that if you feel good, you will be way more productive, which is super interesting.
- [12:20]
Cody McGuffey
You know, I completely agree with you, and it's really cool. I'm. I'm excited to read that book. I. I do the same thing. Like, there's. There's. There's times where I'll start work, and I'm just, like, not really feeling it, which is. We're human. Human beings. That's just. We're not feeling it. We're not feeling super inspired. And there's times where we have to just power through that, for sure. Um, but there's also times where it's like, hey, I have a little bit of time. I think I need to, like, come from a place of inspiration here. I'm gonna just start with, like, looking at something that inspires me. So for you, it's like, you mentioned YouTube videos or a podcast, something like this. Do the exact same thing. And sometimes it's like looking at a car that. That my wife wants, for example, and it's like, you know, like, attaching to something very material, not even something, like, super deep, but, like, very material. Like, oh, yeah, I really want to get that for her, you know, or it's like, maybe it's a house, your dream house. Or maybe it's a private jet, you know, and maybe it's a beach house. And coming from a place of, like, oh, yeah, like, those are fun things to, like, work towards. And it only takes, like, 10 minutes to, like, get myself into this. This inspiring part, and then I kind of, like, will flip back into work, and it just starts off with a good place. And sometimes it's like, how do I make my. My team members millionaires? And sometimes it's like, how do I make all of my users millionaires? So it's like, it's kind of fun. You could just play with this in our mind. It takes practice, though.
- [13:39]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, it does take practice. But, yeah, if you're sitting there, like, in a bad mood, grumpy, making designs and not really liking what you're doing, you know, maybe those aren't going to perform as well as they could if you were, you know, instead coming from a place of, like, excitement and inspiration. So I think making sure you're in a good headspace to work on your business is important. Like you said, sometimes you have to power through. Another really good book is the Laws of Creativity by Joey Caphone. That one, I think, was one of those books that, like, changes your brain chemistry, like, almost don't want to give it away, you know, I'm just like, oh, it's too good. But that one's really interesting. And I think as a Print on Demand seller, you know, for a long time, you know, it came a little bit easier to me. You know, I feel like I have, like, a little bit of an eye for design. Not that I'd ever done anything before, but not much. You know, I definitely still like to learn a lot of the hard lessons. But that book really teaches you that creativity isn't like making something up out of thin air. Like, creativity is taking what the world has already shown that it's interested in and combining it in unique ways. And so, like, if you think about, like, pop culture and different art styles, like, what's popular at the time is just variations of itself, you know, like pop music. It's like all of it sounds kind of dissimilar, but it's a little bit different. You know, it's like that's kind of how it is with Print on Demand. It's like you have to add value, but not in so far of a way that it's something no one's ever seen before and no one actually is looking for and wanting to buy. And so I thought that was a really interesting one too, to kind of switch your mind on what creativity even is and, like, how to stay in the flow state. So there's your reading list and your homework.
- [15:24]
Cody McGuffey
There it is. I just put on my list. I have not read that book considering, like, Print on Demand. You mentioned Print on Demand you last time we had you on, which was a while back, which is crazy, you hit 350k in sales again. That was two years ago. Did I read it right? When you have crossed 700k in sales?
- [15:44]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, right now, between the My3 Etsy stores that I've had, I think I've sold just about a million dollars actually.
- [15:54]
Cody McGuffey
A million dollars? Oh, my gosh. Wow. Okay, so my numbers are off. Congratulations.
- [15:59]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, it's been a little while, you know. Thank you.
- [16:02]
Cody McGuffey
So 980,000, something like this in gross. Gross revenue.
- [16:06]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah. And purely etsy yeah, purely just Etsy. Yeah, yeah. I had a digital download store and then two print on demand stores.
- [16:15]
Cody McGuffey
Amazing how many listings across, like on average per store. Like give us a kind of understanding of what's those look like.
- [16:22]
Cassie Johnson
My first Etsy store, I definitely had to learn a lot more of the hard lessons. And so that store I think I've made around 5,000 listings for. And to be fair, I do a lot of AB testing where I'll copy a listing and just change the main photo or copy the listing and change the SEO. So for like actual designs made for that store, I'd say probably 3,000, 3,500 or something. And then the newer store I think I've only made 5 or 600 listings for. And then our digital download store I think I've made like 500 listings for. So, you know, I've probably made at least 6,000, 6,500 listings in my time. So just a couple, you know, is.
- [17:06]
Cody McGuffey
There a correlation with the number of listings and the success of your stores?
- [17:13]
Cassie Johnson
You know, there are magical unicorns. I'll throw that out there. Like, you will find Etsy stores that have 100 listings and thousands of sales, but that is very far and few between. I spend a lot of time researching shops who have found success, especially like in 2024. I've studied like the top 100 clothing stores two different times to see like what they're doing in 2024. Like started in 2024 and sold, you know, anywhere from 15 to 20,000, you know, items, what are they doing? And, and so mixing my own experience with theirs, I would say there is a correlation to listing consistently in your store. I know for myself, you know, the times where I'm listing really consistently, I'll, you know, there's a lag, you know, it's like four to six weeks after you start listing really consistently. I feel like is when you start to really see a big bump in your sales and then if you keep going, it keeps going. Whereas if you take a break for a little while, you'll start to kind of feel it pull back a little bit. So I do think consistency is really key.
- [18:21]
Cody McGuffey
How what does consistent mean to you? Is it like once a week? Is that like once a month? Is it five a week or ten a week? Like what does that look like? Or one a day even?
- [18:28]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, so for me that's typically looked like at least a couple days a week. So not like every single day. Some days you're just designing, some days you're making mockups. You know, but at least a couple days a week, you're getting some kind of listings up in your store. I'd say if I were to give like a tangible number to try and reach, I Think anywhere from 50 to 100 listings a month is a really good goal to have.
- [18:54]
Cody McGuffey
And would you do those? Because some people listening to this right now, they're just like, whoa, that's, that's a lot of work. Um, so it's like. And there's design that goes. There's research that goes into that first. And there's design, then there's like the listing creation process and like research and like keywords and all this stuff too. At this point, do you do all those things yourself or do you have a team that helps you with those things?
- [19:15]
Cassie Johnson
At this point, I have someone who lists the items for me. And so I get to just do the fun part for me anyways. Everyone has a different fun part, I guess, is I like making the designs cool.
- [19:27]
Cody McGuffey
And then so you do, you do the research of which designs to make and then the design process, you actually make the designs. And then somebody takes a manual that like, that manual, more like effort of creating the listings and stuff. And do they. Are they responsible for the keywords for the title tags, description and all that stuff? Okay, how about mockups?
- [19:48]
Cassie Johnson
Mockups are super easy now because I have them use simply Listed, my new mockup automation software, Shameless Plug, if anyone hasn't checked it out yet. Yeah, it'll make your mockups for you. You make a template one time and then you click, click it and either upload your artwork if you're doing digital downloads or using something like Gelato or Printful, or if you're using Printify, it is integrated directly with Printify. We'll grab your design from Printify, put it on the mockups, and then can publish them right to Etsy for you. So you can make, you know, 10 mockups in a few seconds instead of two minutes, which doesn't make a big difference when you're making one, it sounds like. But if you are doing what I'm talking about and listing 50 to 100amonth, that could save you hours every month that you could be putting into your designs and your research instead. But speaking of the designs and research, one thing that I really like to teach is that you want to like, batch your tasks a little bit. And so when I'm saying 50 to 100 designs a month, I don't mean like 50 to 100 different niches. I really like to make when I find a best selling listing. So like let's say right now, you see there is a best seller for Sleepover Squad, which is the best seller I found using Ever Be Yesterday for a presentation. Shameless Plug Forever Be. So Sleepover Squad, right, that's a bestseller. Multiple bestsellers right now I wouldn't make just one bestseller for that or one listing for that. I would make eight to 15 variations of that design and then I would list all of them because I know that's a bestseller today. There's people coming to Etsy buying those shirts literally today. And so I don't know what they're going to like. I'm going to try a bunch of different proven design styles, but then you get to use the same SEO and the same research multiple times. So it's not like you're having to do the research and do all the keyword research and all that a bunch of times. You're doing it once and then doing a lot of listings and then getting all those up is kind of how I like to do it.
- [21:59]
Cody McGuffey
Do you, when you list all eight of those, are they. Would those be eight listings? Eight different designs. So those, those would be eight listings.
- [22:06]
Cassie Johnson
Exactly, yeah.
- [22:07]
Cody McGuffey
Okay. Would those titles all be the same? Because all the same SEO. So would you actually literally copy and paste the titles for each one of those?
- [22:14]
Cassie Johnson
Yes, with a few exceptions. If some, if one of them happens to be personalized or like has some kind of different little spin on it, like a certain location or something, you know, then I might change the SEO a tiny bit. But I keep the base SEO the same and typically I just copy and paste it. Like there's some things like a social worker shirt. I've had I think four or five different bestsellers over the last four years for a social worker shirt. And so I just take that same best selling title that I've had every time and just use the same SEO. And so eventually when you find the niches that work really well for you, you already know it does well. You already know what SEO does well. So like it doesn't always feel like as much work as it does right now in the beginning, you know, I've got probably 50 different niches that I could make designs for in two seconds with whatever the new trending design style is and have a design up right away. Because I already know the niche, I know the SEO, I know what works in that niche. And so eventually it does get a little bit easier.
- [23:16]
Cody McGuffey
I could totally see that because you start think you just get better Right. You just understand, like, the whole system kind of at work here. You understand that it's not just SEO and just keywords, but those are important. But it's actually the most of the heavy lifting is mostly on the design process. Like, the, the design is what sells, but it can't only be just design because if you had no, if you have, like, great design, but no SEO, like it's, you know, and also if you have no research to kind of back all that up, like, you're gonna be making something that's nobody's looking for. So what do you think the biggest mistakes are that people are making in 2025 for. For print On Demand? Like, maybe it's their mindsets or maybe it's actual tactical mistakes. What would you say? Like, you. You coach a lot of students and you have a lot of people in your community. What are you noticing as a. As a repeating trend?
- [24:03]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, no, that's a great question. So I'd say one of the biggest mistakes I see new sellers making specifically is they're really excited to design for whatever holiday is about to come up. And while I do think that holidays are good to design for and sell on Etsy, when you're brand new, you don't really understand the timelines for things. And so, you know, I have students all the time being like, oh, is it too late to design for St. Patrick's Day or Easter or Valentine's Day? And if it's only a couple weeks out, I don't want you doing like a week or two's worth of work to potentially get sales for a week or two or three. But then that's going to completely die, and then you have to start back from zero. So I think it is really important as a new seller that you have to build up your evergreen designs, which evergreen designs just means something that could sell anytime throughout the year. So that's things like who you are to someone like mom, grandma, aunt, uncle, dad, or your hobbies or your profession. You know, something that a gift for your coworker, a retirement gift, like there's that kind of stuff, could sell any day, all year round and sell really well. And so I think making sure that you're building up a good bank of evergreen designs, that way the effort that you're putting in pays off eventually because sales don't come quick. I wish they did, but they don't come as fast as you want. And so if you put in all that work and then the holiday passes, you'll never know if those were Good designs if they were well researched. Like, you won't learn from your mistakes or be able to compound on your successes. And so I'd say that's one really big mistake that I see. So if you're brand new and you're not getting sales, try focusing on the evergreen designs, which for the spring and summer is like Bachelorette, Mother's Day, Father's Day, graduations, professions, just in general, like teachers sell really well. So, like, that kind of stuff sells really well this season. Another mistake that I see is people really overthinking their pricing and thinking that they need to price really low to be able to eat. And the reason why that's a mistake is because I see a lot of people price really low. And then if you get sales, great. But if you get to the end of your first month or two months or three months and realize you made no money, you're going to feel very discouraged. And like, this business model doesn't actually work, which isn't a place that we want anyone to be. This isn't an expensive hobby that you want, right? We want this to be a business that actually makes you money. And so one reminder that I'll give everyone at home is that people come to Etsy to buy beautiful gifts for someone they love. That's gonna be most of your sales. And so I can't tell you how many times I've seen an item that's like $32 for a shirt and it's a bestseller, or $58 for a sweatshirt and it's a bestseller. Like, you do not have to be the cheapest option for people to want to buy you. If you spend your time adding value with the design, making something that someone's really gonna love. So, like, not from a place of selfishness of like, just trying to get something up as quick as you can so it'll sell, but actually make something that's really nice that someone would love to give as a gift, then you will make so much more money with that mind.
- [27:38]
Cody McGuffey
I want to ask you something else too, for. Because we kind of tackled the mistakes that most of those are beginner mistakes probably. Right? People just kind of starting out, kind of getting their feet wet, trying to get their first 10 to 100 sales. Now maybe we can kind of do the same thing for what are some common mistakes for Etsy sellers or business owners? Because you're not just an Etsy seller. Like, you're, you're, you're, you're a CEO, right? You're, you're the Founder of, of your company. And so you've now made it to a certain level of revenue to where you have different types of problems. And I want to kind of talk to those people that are listening to this today where they maybe their first, like this is the first time they've made like $100,000 or maybe 80 to $200,000. And just like, whoa, like, like this is a great year last year because sometimes we leave those people behind and there's actually a good amount of those people too. And maybe they have now that comes with a new set of problems such as, hey, I paid myself too much a salary last year. Or maybe I didn't pay myself any salary last year. I made all this money but I don't have anything to show for it. Or I made all this money and like I lived off that money. But I also have no more money for taxes now. And I have taxes that I owe too now. And how do I even file those taxes? Because I made money and like what the hell do I do now? And so maybe we can talk to that person a little bit right now too. What do you find? What? What do you find? There's some common mistakes that you're seeing amongst those people.
- [29:07]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, yeah, it's a really good question. So you know, with your print on demand business, you're right. The one big thing that people don't realize is that you don't have the taxes automatically taken out like you do with a normal job. And so making sure that you're setting aside money every single month for your taxes is really important. So that comes along with every month you should be doing an income and expense report. I think that is my non negotiable the first, second or third of every month. That's what you should be doing. That's always what I do in my business. That way I have a really good heartbeat on, okay, what if this month I made more sales but I actually made less profit? That's going to help you catch. What if Printify had a price increase and you forgot to raise your prices? I've made that mistake before and made probably 5,000 less in a month than I should have because I sold like 2,000 things. And that really adds up. And so making sure you're doing your income and expense report every single month, that's mistake number one. Because you need to know the health of your business at any given time. I think that's really, really important. Setting aside money for taxes. So obviously this is going to depend on where you live and what tax bracket you're in at that time. But I would look up, you know, the tax brackets and put aside, I'd say pretty Safe is like 30 to 40% put aside that what you made in profit, put 30 at first and if you start making a bunch more money, start putting 40% away into a separate bank account. And just to give you an idea of what that looks like is the first year that you sell print on demand. If you owe at least here in the in Michigan, I assume it's probably similar places. If you owe money for the year I think over like a hundred dollars, it's not much, then the next year you have to actually pay quarterly taxes. So instead of paying your taxes once a year you're going to start paying them quarterly, which you've got two options. You can pay an estimated tax which is how much you owed last year divided by four or you can actually kind of mini file your taxes every single quarter and pay exactly what you owe. So there's a few different options there.
- [31:16]
Cody McGuffey
But would you recommend people typically hire a CPA at this stage or what would you, would you tell them?
- [31:24]
Cassie Johnson
I do think hiring a CPA is a really good idea or at least having a couple conversations with one. So one thing my CPA helped me with is I think it's around when you've made about like $80,000 with your business for the first time in a year is when it actually makes more sense for you to become a business instead of like an llc so you actually like a corporation. So like that's when I turned my business into an S corp technically. And what the benefit of that is is then like Cody said, you start paying yourself like a salary. And you know, I won't go into the details because I'm not the one.
- [32:02]
Cody McGuffey
By the way, take all this with, it's not financial advice at all. Talk to your CPA and attorney. Yeah, but go ahead.
- [32:07]
Cassie Johnson
But once, yeah, once you make a certain amount of money you can switch to being an S corp which allows you to like pay yourself a salary every month and then that salary doesn't get self employment tax attached to it. And so that will actually save you money on your taxes because you're not paying self employment tax on your full income. And so I definitely would recommend if you're in that range where you're making like 80k 100k a year with your print on demand business or whatever business you're in, then I would talk to a CPA and see if that makes sense for you.
- [32:38]
Cody McGuffey
Yeah, I agree. I agree with a lot of that stuff, what you said, and I think it heavily depends on what your goals are and what you're doing with the business and what your setup is like. But generally speaking, like, those are amazing advice. And I think, um, the overarching advice here is that when you get to that stage of making your first $80,000, or maybe even, like, when you're approaching it, you should be starting to have these conversations with the cpa, not, like, planning on filing all this stuff yourself. You can do it because you're smart and you're an entrepreneur, but it's like. But it's. It's fairly cheap, relatively cheap to hire a CPA at this stage. Right. If you make $80,000 and you're probably going to have $80,000 in profit, then a CPA is going to cost you $1,500 to file, typically in the U.S. right. Maybe less, a little bit more. And then they charge you hourly, sometimes two, sometimes they don't. So the point is, like, it's so, so cheap, relatively speaking to the income and the risks that you have with doing it incorrectly. So just, like, engage a cpa, make sure you do things properly, ask questions. And, yeah, it doesn't have to be as complicated as it is in your head right now. And I think it's. It's complicated for everybody, by the way, when they first make their hundred thousand dollars. But it's. It's actually just. It's a person problem. You got to hire the right person, typically, and it solves, like, 80 of all the concerns in your head. Would you agree with that?
- [33:59]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, yeah. 100. If you don't want to hire a CPA, like, monthly or anything, that's fine. Just have them do your taxes, have some conversations with them, and see what makes sense for you and your business. And, you know, I know it's a hard switch if you've never owned your own business. Like, I hadn't. There's a lot to learn, but there's help out there, and they can help you get the answers that you need. So, yeah, I definitely would recommend getting with someone who knows what they're talking about. So, yeah, not financial advice, but hopefully totally.
- [34:30]
Cody McGuffey
And we actually recorded a full episode for anybody that's interested in this topic. Going deeper here with a bookkeeping expert. And it's episode 31, the role of Bookkeeping for Online Sellers with Nathan Hirsch. And so, like, we talk deeply about this topic, so check it out if you're concerned about that even further. I Do think it's important though, because most people that I talk to, I swear have this conversation probably like once, twice a month where they made their bunch of money and they're like, oh, I gotta file my taxes. And then they've already spent a lot of the money that they made. Yeah, that's hard, dude. You owe like $50,000 probably, like just quick math, like you probably owe about 30 to $50,000. And they're just like, well, what do you mean owe? I'm like, you owe. That money is not yours. It needs to go. Will need to go to the irs. And they're just like, oh my gosh.
- [35:27]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, no, that's a rude awakening. So hopefully this helps save someone from that. Because even if you're making just a little bit of money, it's. It's any part of your profit, right. That you have to owe. So all of you should be saving a percentage of your profit. So not what you sold, but the profit that you actually kept for the month. Be putting that aside in a separate bank account. And obviously if you don't make enough, then you know, you won't end up owing that money if it's like covered under your standard deductions and things. But it's better safe than sorry to put the money aside. And then if you get it back in a refund or you get to keep it at tax time, perfect. I'd much rather you be in that place than the other because that is not a fun people.
- [36:09]
Cody McGuffey
I know people personally that they will owe $30,000, something like this, and that they don't actually have that money because they've been reinvested it back in the business. Or maybe they did something, they bought something personally and then they had to take a loan, a personal loan to pay their taxes. Then they're now they're paying 12%, 15% interest rates, maybe more on this personal loan for a year. Money for money they spent prior or money they earned prior. So. And then it's like this rabbit hole of just like they can never catch up because they're just getting buried and buried. So please, if you're going to take anything away from this, take Cassie's advice. Take 30%. Just the bare minimum. Put it in a savings account or a separate account. Could be checking or savings. It's not going to be your main account, so open up your main account. Next step, open up a savings account or checking account. Doesn't matter, it's a separate account every single month. Make sure 30% of your profits goes into that account and don't do anything with it. It's not your money. Don't even look at it. Just like it's not your money. And then at the end of the year when you owe, you'll. It'll just come right out of that money, right out of the account. So you didn't feel like it's anything off your back. And guess what? Even if you don't, if you owe less, or if you don't owe it now, it's treated as a bonus. Now you, like, look at it like, oh, cool, I got like an extra couple thousand dollars back into my account and transfer it right back into your account and then do it again again over every single year.
- [37:34]
Cassie Johnson
You know, that reminded me that my first year filing my taxes, since I didn't know how it worked, it was extra sad because, you know, you didn't pay the taxes up front the first year. And so then I waited until tax time. So it's like April of what, 20, I think it was. April of 2022, I think is when I first really ran into this. And so I owed for all of the year before, but I also owed the first quarter of that year's taxes at the same time. So it wasn't just last year's taxes. It was the first quarter of this year's taxes as well. And so that again, at the time, I wasn't like, specifically setting aside the money. All the money was just together. And so it hurt. It broke my heart. I hadn't spent it all, thank goodness, and so I had the money to pay it. But, yeah, I'll never make that mistake again because that is not a good feeling having all that money have to come out at once.
- [38:31]
Cody McGuffey
So, yeah, it feels like it's your money. It is. Yeah. It feels like it's yours. You're like, you're actually paying it out. But a separate account is just a quick little, little trick. I think it's a great one.
- [38:39]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah. Yeah, Separate account's a good one. Actually, back in my 20s, that was the first way I ever, like, started a real savings account was having, I think it was 10 or 20% of my paychecks automatically deducted and put into a different bank and a different bank account. So it wasn't even the same login I have to drive to that bank. It was like a credit union. So I didn't even have, like an online login at the same time. And that was the first way that I ever was actually able to save money. So you could even Set up like an automatic deduction. But that's probably not the best choice, actually, because it's. You're only needing to send 30% of your profit, not revenue. So it would probably send too much. But if you need it, you could send like 10, 15% or something, and then just make sure it sent enough each month or something.
- [39:29]
Cody McGuffey
It's mostly about the. The principles of it. It's not necessarily about the exact amounts. It's about the principles of it. And you get better every single year, and every single month, you kind of just get better at thinking about this stuff. Like, pretty much, I know what I'll owe to the T at any given time. Just because you kind of do some quick math, you kind of understand quickly about. And then you can kind of get more fancy, you can do more deductions, you can buy some rental property and, you know, do depreciation. Like, you can do all this fun stuff later on. But if you don't have the fundamentals right, then all that stuff won't save you and won't help you at all.
- [40:00]
Cassie Johnson
Right? So, yeah, hopefully this conversation helps somebody out there start saving their tax money, because, you know, if you don't know that you're gonna have to do that, that is not a fun surprise. So glad we could help.
- [40:13]
Cody McGuffey
Totally. I want to switch gears a little bit, and I want to touch on your YouTube growth, because there are people, we see this. It's a very common thing where we learn a skill very well, and then we want to naturally teach people how to do that same thing. And we see it with Etsy, you see it with music, right. Somebody learns how to play guitar, and they become really, really good at it. And all of a sudden they're just like, oh, I kind of like, want to teach people how to play guitar. So they started a YouTube channel, and pretty soon their YouTube channel is growing and all this stuff or they wanted to grow. And if I look back on when me and you met three years ago. Is that right?
- [40:53]
Cassie Johnson
Two years ago?
- [40:53]
Cody McGuffey
Yeah, two years ago. You. Your YouTube growth has been. I don't remember this up account when we met. Do you. Do you recall?
- [41:04]
Cassie Johnson
I think my first year on YouTube, I had maybe 20, 30, 40K subscribers or something. Yeah, a lot less. I don't remember exactly.
- [41:15]
Cody McGuffey
And if I recall, I think me and you met each other when you're around like 8, 000 or 4, 000 subscribers or something like this. Does that sound right?
- [41:22]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah. Yeah. Cody was the first person ever to reach out, wanting to work with Me on my channel, I was so excited.
- [41:29]
Cody McGuffey
And it's so cool. And so what I'm looking at now is I'm looking at your, like, your growth and that to over 214,000 subscribers in three years. Am I saying three or two? I'm sorry, is it supposed to be two or three?
- [41:45]
Cassie Johnson
No, it's three years.
- [41:46]
Cody McGuffey
It is three years for the person who wants to do that. Separate from Etsy, separate from Print on Demand. Just let's say I want to start a YouTube channel today and I want to have similar results or at least similar growth. I aspire to be like you, Cassie. What would you tell me to do? Like, what are some of the main things that contributed to that success in a short period of time?
- [42:14]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, absolutely. So I think, you know, obviously you don't really know exactly what, you know, worked sometimes, but if I had to really boil it down to what I did and what I think led to the success of my channel is I posted two YouTube videos every single week for my first year, which was a lot of work. Yeah, that's a lot of time spent coming up with ideas, recording, editing. I was doing all my own editing the first year, too, and getting that up in my store or not in my store. See, I'm just mixing the two together, getting them up on my channel. I think that made a big difference. The second thing that I think made a really big difference is I replied to every single comment on my channel for as long as humanly possible. I don't reply to every single comment anymore because it's just not, you know, as ideal. But I used to reply to every single comment. I'd know who my normal viewers were. We'd have conversations and just kind of like, build a community. So if you go into it with a mentality that you really want to help people, which is what I started, I didn't know it was going to end up taking over my life. I just love YouTube. It turned into a lot more than I thought it was going to. And I'll just tell that tiny story right now is I started Print on Demand and I did things kind of my own way a lot of times. And so I had this email of, like, 20 things on, like, how to get started, what you should know how to do Print on demand. And I helped, like, 20 different people I knew. So start Print on Demand businesses. But I just, like, send them this email and then, like, text with them a bunch. And then people in the Facebook groups, I would be answering their questions all the time. But there Weren't a lot of YouTubers teaching Printify back in the day? And so I was like, you know what? Like, I'm gonna make some videos showing how to do some of this stuff step by step, because I had to figure out so much of it by myself. And so that's when I started making the videos was just to teach people the stuff that I figured out and thought people would want to know. And so I think, yeah, the two videos a week, replying to every comment. And then I think the biggest one is not just like making videos that are just like what everybody's making. It's kind of exactly what I talked about earlier with Etsy. The biggest mistake is people only going for like the next holiday that's coming up or the most recent viral event or something that's just selling right now. With YouTube, it's even more important that you make evergreen videos. So think of how someone would Google something. Like, what is print on demand? How to start an Etsy store. Like, those types of videos, you might not get 10,000 views your first week, but you might get 300,000 views over three years. Right. It's one of those videos where you kind of want to treat it like Google because YouTube is the second largest search engine in the world. And so if you can just know what people are going to search on YouTube and have a video that's going to answer their one super specific question. Like, one example I have is, you got your first sale. Now, what with Printify, what does that look like? What do you have to click? What do you have to worry about? What do you need to know? I don't know if anyone else even has a video like that because it's such a random little topic. But I think it has like 80,000 views now, years later, because so many people have wanted that information. And so I think those are probably my best tips.
- [45:43]
Cody McGuffey
I love it. So, I mean, what I'm hearing here is similar to listing on Etsy. It's like you need to have consistent listings.
- [45:52]
Cassie Johnson
Yep.
- [45:52]
Cody McGuffey
You need to have consistent posting. It's an algorithm. YouTube's an algorithm. Etsy's an algorithm. They want people that are active. They want to push content that is active. That is a couple things. But listing consistently, posting consistently, two is having a great quality design on Etsy, having a great quality video on YouTube, great quality equals something that actually serves a purpose, solves a problem for the listener, a deep problem that people will always be looking for and basically repeat consistently over time.
- [46:29]
Cassie Johnson
Exactly.
- [46:29]
Cody McGuffey
That's kind of what I heard add value, add value. What I didn't hear is chasing trends, like you don't need to trace trends, you don't need to have this certain type of editing perfect style. You need to have a certain intro, a certain thumbnail. All those are important. I think we, we, we probably agree they do, they do play a role, but that's not the fundamental things that you're talking about here.
- [46:55]
Cassie Johnson
Right. My first two years, I think on YouTube, I recorded every video with my iPhone and a $20 microphone and just like a little ring light. Yeah, I finally have a fancier camera now. You're seeing it right now if you're on here. But yeah, no, I didn't use any kind of fancy editing, fancy cameras or anything. You know, I think in this type of industry, like if you're getting into business content, like I heard a good analogy recently and it was if you had a plumbing emergency at your house and the plumber showed up in a three piece suit, would you trust him more or less than the plumber who showed up in his work clothes with a well worn toolbox ready for the job? You know, it's not like I'm some lifestyle youtuber teaching you how to live a glamorous lifestyle. You know, like I'm not a glamorous lady. Like I'm just here, here trying to teach you how to do what I did and sell some stuff online. You know, it doesn't have to be overly edited. You know, it's kind of more of that authentic vibe is more important anyways. Like they just want a friend that's going to walk them through how to get to what they want to do.
- [48:11]
Cody McGuffey
What are you most proud of about the life that you built?
- [48:17]
Cassie Johnson
That's a good question. I like that. I'd say I'm most, most proud of getting to help the people that I know with Print on Demand. Obviously I get to see that every day. In real life, I think I have like three or four cousins, I have two or three siblings, a couple friends who have really made good incomes with Print on Demand. And I just think that's so cool. I love that. That just makes me so, so happy. But just getting to change people's lives, you know, a lot of people have been able to become stay at home moms while they do Print on Demand. Like it just makes me super, super happy. I've been able to like hire a couple of my students over the years to like become coaches in my community because they're making enough doing what they're doing. And now they want to help teach people and that's just so cool.
- [49:10]
Cody McGuffey
Now if we take it a step deeper and not talk and I'm going to force you to be extra selfish here, what are you most proud of about you and like the life that you built for you? Curious about that one too.
- [49:24]
Cassie Johnson
Interesting. I'm really proud of being consistent with it, you know, doing my own business stuff, not having a normal job for going And I think four years now. And for anyone who doesn't know, my husband quit his job three years ago now. And it's mostly just my stay at home husband, which has been really magical. I'm really, really proud of that. And we have a 16 year old son that I think we are just really teaching them that anything's possible. And I think that's really beautiful.
- [50:05]
Cody McGuffey
That's a great answer. Thank you for that. Cassie, I look at your life and as a friend, not just like we talk once in a while, but we talk more often than just the podcast. And I don't know everything about what you and Brent do and the family does. Right. But it seems to me from my perspective is that you guys genuinely enjoy your life and it seems to me that you've built a life of autonomy. You kind of do what you want, when you want, with who you want to do it and you do it generously and you, you provide for people and like you invite people over to your house. You guys will have, you get together as family get togethers, which is probably a dream of yours for your whole life. And it's finally actually manifested into real, real life the past few years. And you don't, not only do are you very successful financially, but you also like have, you're very successful like with time freedom. And I think that's the one of the most special things that anybody can do with their life is provide a, to build a life with freedom of time. Meaning you could just do what you want when you want.
- [51:10]
Cassie Johnson
Right. You know, it's funny when you're a business owner because that means that you probably work more than other people do because that's just kind of how it goes. Sometimes I'll take a whole month off almost. You know, there's some things I have to do obviously at any certain time, but it seems like the January blues usually get me. And so I know last January 2024 I read for basically all of the month of January and one of my favorite books of this year came out in January. So I read that and did a bunch of like self care Time in January too. But I think you're super right. You know, for anyone who doesn't know me, which is most of you, I am one of seven kids and six of us are married and almost all of us have kids. And so my immediate family, parents and siblings, spouses and kids, I think is about to be 28 people. And so one really beautiful thing that I've been able to do for this is the third year in a row is pay to rent a house for my whole family to go stay in once a year, like a family trip.
- [52:21]
Cody McGuffey
You have done it or you're going to do it?
- [52:23]
Cassie Johnson
We've done it the last two years. And so this year's the third year that we rented a house down in Ohio. Big, beautiful house, like an indoor pool and a pond and enough bedrooms for everybody. And it's just really beautiful to get to be able to do that because you're right. Quality time is probably one of my most treasured things.
- [52:41]
Cody McGuffey
Can I ask you about that specific experience Experience that you've done a few times? Because my wife and I, we've talked about doing this numerous times. We've talked about it, but we have not done it because our family is very similar. I'm one of six and so many kids. Right. So many people we want to do this too, but we always get hung up on some things for some reason. I don't know why. But the point is I want to actually do it this year. And can I ask you what you what, what the cost is typically of this? And then also do you pay for food also? Like what do you cover? What do you not cover? Do you cover airlines? Do you cover like this? Like what? Where's the limits that you guys have done? I'm not saying there's a right way or wrong way. I'm just curious of what you guys have done.
- [53:20]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah. So for you, I know you might live a little bit further from your family, so it could look a little bit different. The majority of my family lives within 30 minutes of me. Almost everybody with one family living down in Kentucky. And so what we've done two of the years now is meet in the middle. So in it's about four hour drive for everybody to meet in the middle in Ohio is why we picked that. So no flights necessary. One of the years we did it up here in Michigan, about an hour and a half away where the family from Kentucky had to drive like the eight hours to come see everybody, which isn't as ideal. So no flights needed. So I typically cover the rental of the house and then one or two of the dinners. And so if people want to bring drinks, usually somebody else handles one of the dinners or like bring snacks. And then the cost of it has grown every year. So the first year the house only costed I think like 3, $500 for the weekend because a lot of people had to share rooms as a smaller house. And then last year I think the rental was like $6,000. And then this year the rental is $10,000 because we're like, we just want a bigger, better house. And I don't think I'd go beyond that. But I am really excited for the house this year and how much fun it's going to be because we'll play entire family nighttime, like hide and seek in the house. And you know, we just have so much fun.
- [54:45]
Cody McGuffey
I love that. And so it sounds like it's a weekend thing. It's two nights sounds like.
- [54:48]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah. Or three nights. I think we've done actually now that I'm saying that we'll do like a long weekend.
- [54:54]
Cody McGuffey
Wow. It's really, really inspiring too. I think so many people listening to this are, want to get to that stage of like, they're so generous people listening to this. Like for sure. Our audience and, and our, our users are literally just like great people who want to do great things for their families and their communities. And that's an example of that. So thank you for sharing that and I genuinely want to do that too. And I think we probably just overthink things because you want things to be perfect and then you're just like. Then you end up not doing anything at all. And the reality is just like, like, dude, just book the house and just like get everybody there. That's the point. I think it's a perfect time to move into rapid fire to wrap it up. What do you think?
- [55:31]
Cassie Johnson
Go right ahead.
- [55:33]
Cody McGuffey
What's your favorite business book today?
- [55:36]
Cassie Johnson
My favorite business book today would probably be. Oh, that's a good question. There's so many business books.
- [55:48]
Cody McGuffey
Your mindset too, probably.
- [55:51]
Cassie Johnson
The magic of thinking big. I'd say that's a pretty solid choice. It's not like the only one that you'd have to read. It doesn't have all the answers, but I think you need that mindset piece that it gives you if you don't have it already.
- [56:04]
Cody McGuffey
What's the one thing that you wish that you knew before starting your business?
- [56:08]
Cassie Johnson
That's a good question. I feel like I'm not good at rapid fire. The one thing I wish I knew before starting my business. I don't know nothing. I feel like it's all been great. I feel like you can't learn more than you can right in the beginning. I kind of start everything not knowing much about it and just learn as I go. And I think sometimes that's better. If you're sitting there feeling like you need to know everything before you get started, then you're just going to get overwhelmed and do nothing. So I almost think it's better to just kind of be surprised and learn as you go.
- [56:42]
Cody McGuffey
What's the worst advice that you've ever received about business?
- [56:46]
Cassie Johnson
The worst advice that I've ever received about business, Maybe that you have to run ads to be successful because you're.
- [56:55]
Cody McGuffey
Just proven that to be not true for you.
- [56:56]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, I just don't think it's true. I think you can be really successful organically in any business that you do. Social media is really magical. Etsy's a search engine. So is YouTube. Like all of it can be completely organic if you focus on what people are already searching for. Like I said with YouTube and it's the same way with Etsy. Use Everbee, see what people are searching for, what they're buying already, and then make stuff for that. And you won't need ads at all.
- [57:23]
Cody McGuffey
I love that. I think something for me in the, in the tech world is a really common thing. When I was starting ever be was, oh, you need a, you need a technical co founder. Like you need one. And that was a really common thing. They still say it, but it's not as common anymore. And then second thing was you need a business partner just in general, like you need to, you can't go, you can't go to loan. Solo founders are typically not very successful. And the third one is you need to raise money. Like you're going to have to raise money. It's just, it's tech is too expensive. Like you're going to probably have to run. You raise money. All those things have kind of proven to be not true just in my personal life, but also just in general with the market. Like you're doing it and it's like we've all kind of. The market is proving it wrong slowly by slowly. But it's interesting if your family and your friends and your customers all had to get together and you couldn't be there and they had to write an honest article about you, about Cassie Johnson, characterizing your traits, good stuff and the bad stuff, what are some things that they would say?
- [58:27]
Cassie Johnson
I would say that they would say that I'm a hard worker. But I think that also could be on the bad side, that sometimes I have tunnel vision and just stay in my house and work and have trouble prioritizing my personal life somewhat. But that's what a wonderful husband is for. He is my. What do we call him all the time? He always is the one that says that he's like the. The cfo, our. What is it called? The Chief Fun Officer, to make sure that we're having a good time, we're planning vacations, we're hanging out with friends. So, like, he planned us to go to a hockey game soon. Whereas, like, I'll accidentally just work all day every day if you let me. I'd say that's a plus and a minus. Right. It's good to do that sometimes. I would hope that people would say that I'm really generous. I think a lot of my students say that I give away all my secrets and that they really appreciate it. I love giving away all the secrets. I'll tell you guys everything. I want you guys all to succeed. And then I think they all would say that I have a really good attitude. Yeah, I'm really happy, really positive person. I really strong, strongly believe that anyone can succeed at this, and there's room for all of us. And I think it's really, really true.
- [59:44]
Cody McGuffey
When did you feel like you made it? The first time?
- [59:47]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah, I'd say the first time that I felt like I made it, I'll be honest, was before Print on Demand. Right. So I'll tell you. When Covid happened and me and my husband both lost our jobs, and everyone was panicking. You know, we've got no jobs. It's the middle of a pandemic. It was a really scary time. You know, I had, like I said, put money aside every month out of my paychecks for, like, eight or 10 years, and so we were fine. We ended up getting stimulus checks and stuff. So, like, we would have been fine anyways. But I think that was the first time that, like, all that, like, hard work and saving really felt like, oh, wow, this is why I did that, because I had the time and the energy and the peace to go on YouTube and look for side hustles, and I got to start Print on Demand, not from a place of panic, of, like, I have to make this work, but from a place of curiosity, like, oh, wow, look, this is really interesting. I wonder if I could do this too. And I got to start from a really solid place of not Needing it to work but really wanting to understand it and having fun with it. It's just like that book I was talking about, the Feel Good Productivity book. If you come at things from that space instead of, oh, my God, I need money. This has to work. If I don't make money this month, I'm going to quit. Then I feel like you're not going to get the same results from it. And so that's kind of my first answer. But beyond that, with Print on Demand and like, starting my own business, the day I got to quit my job in June of 2022 and tell my boss, hey, I'm quitting to do my own business, I'm out. And she was like, well, will you stay part time? Like, are you sure? That sounds really risky. And I was 100% sure. I'm like, I have made $20,000 profit in a month. Like, I'm out of here. Just imagine what I could do if I wasn't working 40 hours a week for you, you know? And that I'd say was really. I felt like I made it. That was a really, really.
- [61:45]
Cody McGuffey
How would you define a creator? Who is a creator to you?
- [61:49]
Cassie Johnson
Who is a creator to me? That's really interesting. I think anyone who can switch from the consumer mindset to the creator mindset and make anything is a creator. You know, if you're a baby creator and you're just getting started, you're still a creator. You're creating anything. Most people go through their entire lives just consuming. But if you can come over here to the creator side and make something that you're proud of and put on the Internet, whether it's a video, whether it's a T shirt or a notebook or anything, that's a really beautiful thing. Even if you don't get the fruits of your labors from that exact interaction. And it takes longer for you to, like, actually make money from what you're doing, if that's your goal, you're still a creator. And you might not resonate with that yet, or, like, think of yourself that way, but you are what you do. So as soon as you start doing something, guess what? That's what you are. You are a creator.
- [62:51]
Cody McGuffey
Do you think that everyone should be a business owner?
- [62:55]
Cassie Johnson
No, I think it'd be great if everybody was, but I don't think that everybody would be happy with being a business owner. I think there's a lot of uncertainty in it that not everybody, I think, would have a good time with me personally. Before doing Print On Demand, I was an all commission salesperson for 10 years. So making different amounts of money every single month is something I'm super comfortable and used to. I think when people start their own business, that can be really nerve wracking for some people. I'd love to say that everyone should start their own business, but obviously we need some people to work in hospitals and you know, but if it could be on the side, then yeah, I think everybody should start a business of some kind.
- [63:43]
Cody McGuffey
I was going to ask that because I think it's. I love asking this question because I think you're probably the person that's closest to answering it the way that I would probably answer it even more so I'd probably be a little bit more extreme because I'm biased because I get to ask this question all the time and I think about it all the time is that everyone should be a business owner. But I think for that to be true, we need to redefine what business ownership means. It needs like we can. A doctor can be a business owner too. They could just have a side business and they could have a podcast, talk to teaching other people how to do certain procedures or educating an up and comer doctor. I don't know, whatever, right.
- [64:17]
Cassie Johnson
Following their day in the life on TikTok, like, who knows?
- [64:20]
Cody McGuffey
Yeah, totally. Why do you think so? You said that if it wasn't on the side that you think yes, they sh. Everyone should be a business owner. Why do you say that?
- [64:33]
Cassie Johnson
I think there's a lot of peace in having multiple streams of income. You know, especially after my husband and I losing our jobs at the same time. You know, again, luckily I had savings so we felt fine. But I would have felt a lot better if I already had some kind of side hustle or side income that I could kind of fall back on and have something else. I also think that there's a really beautiful thing in life when you are passionate about something. A lot of people aren't passionate about the job that they have and that's super normal. I don't think that most people are passionate about their job. That's just not, I think, a realistic expectation that we can all have jobs that we feel like super fulfilled by. You know, I think having some kind of at least hobbies first and foremost. But if not hobbies, if you don't have hobbies that you're like super passionate about, you have so much fun doing or you're not like part of some kind of committee or something, it's like you need something in your life that Makes you feel fulfilled and that you can feel really passionate about and work on is, I think that is some of the most beautiful moments of life is feeling like what you do really matters and makes a difference. I think changes your life. As far as your confidence and your happiness.
- [65:49]
Cody McGuffey
I agree with you. I think everyone should be a business owner too. And I think you mentioned a good point of, well, we need employees to like do hard things like as, as companies and yes, like we do. And I also think that those things can coexist at the same time. Like, just because you're an employee for a company that's doing very hard things that does require like your full effort at that job doesn't mean that you shouldn't be a business owner. But maybe it doesn't mean that you should be a business owner at this exact moment in your life. But at some point you should be a business owner. Like there's certain everyone should be business owner at some point. And my feeling on this is it's mostly about. We learn so much more about ourselves when we own our own business. Like, we really are pushed up against the wall and we say, okay, I need to be resilient here. Like, you're gonna be hitting so many roadblocks when it comes to starting your own business. Should I make this content? I don't really feel like it, but I need to make it anyway. Okay, got it. Like, I need to think about taxes, I need to think about money, I need to be financially responsible, I need to think about marketing and like how I position myself in the world. And oh, also like I'm getting pushed up against something that's hard right now. It's important for my kids to see me and how I respond to that. I think that's really important for us as humans to be challenged in that way. And you do get those challenges from having a job. You do. But it's something different when you're self sustainable or you're like you're working independently. Like, this is my thing and like, no, I can't rely on anyone here that when your kids, if you have kids, then they see you kind of being self sufficient. It unlocks something for them that's very important for them to think that, oh, I don't need a hand to feed me necessarily, I can do make my own way. And I think that's really important for, for human beings just in general, like for the future of our society as a. Yeah.
- [67:46]
Cassie Johnson
And I wonder, you know, going back in time, right. Like that's probably what life More looked like hundreds of years ago. It's like everybody. Not everybody for sure, just like now, but more people probably owned their own businesses. Like, you had the baker, you had the shoemaker, you had the farmer. It's like more people, like, owned their own businesses back in the day. Like, I wonder if there's like, something with our physiology that, like, makes us. Us feel more fulfilled when we have a job that's like ours and we can be really proud of.
- [68:16]
Cody McGuffey
I think it totally is. It comes back down to, like, the trading, the bartering type of system. And back in the day where it's like, I'm just gonna go to John down the street, he's gonna fix my. Fix my shoe. And like, that's. There's something special about that. Because you're like, doing business with John. It's a small business, right? And you're doing business with John. He's providing for his family. You have a problem, he needs to solve the problem. And, like, multiply that by 10 million, 100 million, 200 million, 500 million people. Like, it actually is really good for our economy, I would argue. And that's the way business should be. Should there be bigger companies that, like, do certain things? Of course. And there always will be. There's always going to be small businesses that turn into big businesses and aspire to be big, big businesses. But I think it's something special about owning your own business.
- [69:01]
Cassie Johnson
I agree. So, you know, we're happy you guys are all here listening and you guys all have your own business. I bet that's why you're here. And that is just so beautiful. And if no one has told you that they're proud of you today. Like, me and Cody are so proud of you. Like, look at you go. Even if you're one day into it, you've done so much more than other people do.
- [69:19]
Cody McGuffey
And you think it's really. That's amazing to say that. Thanks for calling that out. Not many people will would say. If you're questioning whether you're going to make it, quote, unquote, make it whatever that means for you. If you're questioning that today, which you probably are, because you're probably driving to work right now in traffic, maybe listening to this. You're driving home from work from a job you don't really love, and you're like, you really. You're wondering if you have what it takes. The answer is from Cassie and from me is 100% you do, and 100% you will achieve it. Because think of all the People that are not listening to this podcast right now or another podcast similar to others, 99% of the world are not listening to an hour and 10 minute podcast recording about personal growth and mindset and making money and filing taxes and all this stuff. So the fact that you're even listening to this is proof that you have what it takes.
- [70:13]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah. It reminds me of something that I've heard is that parents that read parenting books aren't better parents because they read the books, they're better parents because they were willing to read the books. And I think that's super true in business as well, that you need to give yourself more props for what you've done. Like, if you're not sitting there thinking, I'm a business owner, that made me uncomfortable for a long time. I still get a little bit uncomfortable when people ask me what I do because I just don't have the right answer for it yet. So, you know, like, if you're like working a full time job and you've started an Etsy store and you've listed 20 things, you haven't made any sales, guess what? You're still a business owner. That's who you are. And again, you are what you do. And you can't expect to feel confident in what you're doing before you've seen it work. Like that is the definition of imposter syndrome is you feel like you are lying about who you are because you're not that person yet. But as soon as you start doing it and you start getting the proof, it becomes true. Anyone who started a business started out as an imposter, just like you. But as soon as you're doing it, then you're not an imposter anymore. And you need to switch your mindset that like, hey, I'm a business owner, look at me go and come at it from that place. And I think you'll do a lot better.
- [71:32]
Cody McGuffey
And we need you to succeed. We, we need more businesses, we need small businesses, we need creators creating businesses. So not only does your family need you. If you're listening to this, not only do you need you, but like our society needs you, we need more businesses. So Cassie, where can people find you?
- [71:50]
Cassie Johnson
People can find me on YouTube at Cassie Johnson. You can also find me on my website, cassiejohnson.com. i've got some cool stuff on there if you're interested. And then lastly, you can find me@simplylisted IO if you want to check out my mockup automation software.
- [72:11]
Cody McGuffey
Cassie, thank you so much for coming on and being our hundredth episode, I know you are going to continue to grow, and I'm just excited to just follow along your journey and. And help where I can and you help me where I can and it's. Or where you can. And I appreciate you.
- [72:27]
Cassie Johnson
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks, everybody for listening and we'll talk next time.
- [72:33]
Cody McGuffey
Cool. Thanks, Gu.