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- [00:00]
A
The majority of people out there who are like pursuing these journeys of wanting to become financially free, starting online businesses, etc. They don't. They have some self belief, but usually not as much as they could do. So you might assume that you're not very talented and therefore it's going to take you way longer. Or, and whether that is design or researching or being analytical, whatever it may be, a lot of people have these self doubts and they have, they don't have a lot of self belief. Which means that the competition of people that have sort of medium self belief is really, really thick. But actually getting to that next level that you need a lot of self belief for, there's not that many people that have. So it's almost easier to compete at that higher level of people who are just really, really confident in themselves, regardless of their skill set or their talent, which was kind of an interesting angle to look at it from. That that's doing yourself disservice by constantly doubting yourself.
- [00:53]
B
Welcome back to Built Online, the podcast where we dive into everything online business. Here we explore the minds of creators who are building online businesses to power their dream lives and ultimately transform economies. I'm your host Cody McGuffey and if you're new here, I'm the founder and CEO of Everbee, a creator commerce platform where we believe that everyone deserves the opportunity to pursue their passions and to live life on their own terms. On a mission to make creator commerce accessible to everyone throughout the world, no matter where they are, and to make a positive impact in our families and our communities. And we believe that everyone that truly commits to a vision and pursues it with an undeniable force of will that they will ultimately succeed. I'm really excited about today's show. Thank you for sharing your time with us. Before we jump into today's episode, I'd like to ask a quick favor for anyone that's listened to the show before. If you haven't already, please let us know if these episodes and these conversations are are helpful or not. Share your feedback in the comments and review it if you if you would. It truly helps the podcast, it helps our team. It helps me personally understand what types of guests that we should have on the podcast that really just helps us improve the show to make it better. We need your feedback. We would not be able to operate without your feedback. So be sure to follow the podcast, subscribe to the channel wherever you're watching this. So you really never really miss out on that. That one nugget that can really change your business and change your life. Enough of that. Really excited to have you here. Let's jump into today's show. What's up, man?
- [02:24]
A
I'm good. How are you, Cody?
- [02:26]
B
Good. We got the matching sweaters today, don't we?
- [02:28]
A
Yeah, I know. Almost. I'm white, you're black. I like the black one actually.
- [02:32]
B
Looks cool. I'm happy you're wearing that, man. Super cool. I wanted to have you on, man, because you have an interesting background and our creators that listen to Built Online podcast are all about business growth and they're all trying to search for these three things and they use different words to describe them. But with the way I describe them are location, freedom, time freedom and financial freedom. And to me, what I know about you and our friendship over the past year is you've achieved these things and I understand there's a scale to these things. But not only do you achieve them, but you also teach them to others. And that's why I thought you'd be a perfect person to come on and share your story with us and just kind of talk about different strategies, different roadblocks, different struggles, different successes that you've had throughout your journey and just kind of to continue to pay it forward to to our listeners. What do you think?
- [03:30]
A
Yeah, I appreciate you having me on. First of all, sounds like that's going to be an interesting conversation because that's literally one of the things I optimize for is like how much freedom do we get out of this? That's what I base a lot of decisions on because I think sometimes it actually makes sense to turn away certain opportunities or extra money if it takes away too much freedom. Even if you've already got to a certain point where you've worked yourself up and you can kind of do what you want in your own time and in the location that you're in. So yeah, I'm happy. I'm looking forward to the conversation today.
- [04:06]
B
Amazing man. I to give, to give a sense of for the people that don't know who you are, I'll give kind of like my little my understanding like stats wise where you're at and then maybe you can fill in the gaps. But Phil teaches people pod how to sell things online, leveraging mostly AI and also print on demand together. And the way that I see you, Phil, and you could fill in the gaps are you primarily sell on two main strategies, but maybe the third and it's Amazon merch is one, Etsy is two and then the third one is having your own website driving Traffic to your website and actually building the brand on there. That sound, does that sound right?
- [04:44]
A
Yeah, that sounds about right. Those are like the main marketplaces for me. I'm quite spread across multiple platforms besides those as well. But yeah, those are definitely some of the main drivers of my growth throughout my journey.
- [04:57]
B
And then you teach people how to do stuff that you do on YouTube and that's primarily your main social channel to teach people, Is that correct?
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A
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Beautiful. I would do Instagram and Tick Tock and that sort of stuff, but it's not my, not my kind of thing.
- [05:10]
B
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. Okay, cool. And that's just for everybody to kind of get a understanding of a Phil that doesn't know Phil yet. Can you provide maybe like, and then we'll go deeper onto certain topics. But maybe what does that freedom life look like for you financially? Because a lot of people don't even know how to quantify this. Like what is, what is possible out there, like revenue. Or you could talk about profit, or you can talk about whatever you're comfortable with talking about. But the point is, like, how do you view this across three different channels? Are you comfortable sharing anything that you've been able to do over the past X amount of years or this year? Whatever you want to talk about? Can you share that?
- [05:47]
A
Yeah, yeah, that's. That's a good question. I never really go extra in depth into numbers, but to me, the financial freedom side of things means that, that you have kind of your, your base needs met for life of like enough money coming in, let's say a few thousand coming in that help pay your rent, your food, your, your everyday expenses, maintenance, that sort of thing. And then on top of that, you have a, a good additional stream of another few thousand coming in that you can use to, to invest or to save to, to kind of put away and buy yourself time almost. What I mean by that is I think the, the more you kind of invest into something else or put aside to save, the more of a backup you buy yourself. So if, if anything went wrong with my businesses now, I know that I would have, I don't know, a year's worth of time to figure out what else to do or to completely change direction because I kind of have that saving and that saving feels like that, that buys me a lot of freedom.
- [06:55]
B
I love this conversation already because so many people, because I've invested in certain companies, I also own my companies and I have a lot of friends that have their own companies and the things that the common questions that I get you. Could you recognize a pattern at some point? And the questions are, hey, I want to quit my job, but, like, when should I know financially, like, it's time to quit my job, or, hey, when should I know? When would I know, like, whether I can, like, treat myself to buy my house or to buy that car or buy that watch or whatever it is? And what we're talking about is, like, a little bit of safety net. And you're talking about having a little bit of money in the bank account to make you feel extra confident with. With your businesses. In the case that one shut down, you have. Guess you can call it cushion. For me, I call it Runway or reserves.
- [07:46]
A
Yeah.
- [07:47]
B
But a lot of people don't even understand how to think about this, actually, because they've never had this conversation. So maybe can we stay on this for a few minutes and kind of coach people through what is a good enough amount of Runway or reserves to have in the bank account to feel good before they start to, like, invest further in something else that's not related to their business? Can we talk about that?
- [08:08]
A
Yeah. Yeah. I think if you are kind of at the starting stage and you're thinking about, you know, beginning with your business or quitting a job or you're taking a big leap, it definitely makes sense. And you hear this everywhere. It definitely makes sense to have about six months worth of, like, your rent or your living expenses saved up. You don't necessarily have to have that. I don't think I did that when I started. But that's definitely something to work towards to give you that Runway, like you say. But I think another thing that you touched on there, like when to buy your car, your house, that kind of thing. I'm also the type of person which I. I don't really like buying things unless I can afford them. Like, I wouldn't buy a car that I can't afford and then pay it off in monthly installments. I try to optimize for having as little. At least personally having as little monthly expenses as possible so that I can still, like, I always want to put something away. Even back in the day when I was making, like, a thousand dollars a month, I always tried to put something away. And that's just literally just scaled throughout the. Throughout the years.
- [09:16]
B
I feel the same.
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A
I've never bought, like, never bought an expensive phone on finance, stuff like that. That's kind of a. Like, a personal thing that I think helps. Helps you stay ahead in a sense, rather than fall behind into into debt to catch up in that sense.
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B
Yeah, it's. It takes a tremendous amount of discipline to, to be this. That type of person, I would say, because all of your friends and your family and people that are probably arguably doing worse financially than you are buying those things. So you feel like you're actually behind from like a social standpoint, but in reality you're actually getting further ahead by slowing that part of your. Your expenses down. I remember feeling that exact same way. There was a point where my wife and I, Christina, we were building Everby and we, at this point, we've, we've invested everything into it. Like all of our, all of our money, personal past business money into starting ever be. And there was a point where all of our friends were buying their houses. Like they're at that stage of life where they're buying their houses. They bought the new car and we were like, not. We have. Like I was driving the Ford Focus. It was beat. It was an older one. My wife drove it in high school. I drove another one that. A car that I drove in college. And there was a point where I remember my wife and I talking about like, damn, seems like everyone is way ahead of us. And it's just because we were playing a different game. Like we were playing the optionality game where as soon as this business, as soon as it succeeds, we're going to open up a whole. All of that stuff we're going to have plus more and all the freedom and we're going to be able to keep it, not just like have it for a little while. Like we'll be able to keep it no matter what the business does. And so for us, it gave us a tremendous amount of power. But it's hard for us to see that when we're in that moment. How about, did you have a similar experience or do you look at that similar way?
- [11:11]
A
It does sound like they were optimizing. Like some of your friends were optimizing for assets as quickly as possible and you were optimizing for freedom. Right. You were losing out on assets at least in the moment, but you had more freedom than at that point. And yeah, I mean, I, I definitely, I don't feel in some ways like some of my friends have bought a house. I've even journaled about this and I don't really feel much of a need to get house because to me, once again, that takes away some freedom. Kind of makes you stick to a certain place. You have to look after the place. You might not be able to sell it straight away if you want to move or you have to move. So that kind of gets rid of the location freedom a little bit. And that's why I think buying a house, although it definitely has its benefits, that's not something that I personally am interested in. There's definitely been instances where like my friends or people in my life, they would have like always the, the better or the newest, the best phone, the, you know, the, the new car and that sort of thing where I just think, to me it's always important or I think happiness lies, A lot of happiness lies in the gap between your, your income and your expenses. If that gap is tiny, you could, you could be making 100,000amonth. But if your expenses are like 95,000, you, you know, it doesn't really make that much of a difference if the gap is way bigger. If, if you get to keep half of the money in your own pocket every month, that I think to me at least makes me feel a lot better.
- [12:41]
B
How do you define financial freedom?
- [12:43]
A
Good question. Financial freedom. I think it goes back to what I said at the beginning. The, the ability to pay off everything in your normal life that you need to and still have, you know, extra on top of that to do. To travel whenever you want to, to, to save, to invest, to essentially have your basic needs met, but also have a healthy amount of money on top of that. And this stuff is for everyone, right? For me it might be an extra few thousand. For someone else it might be next to 20,000. Depends where you live. In some countries it might be just an extra 200. That could give someone that, that, that freedom to do extra things in their life. Whether it is traveling, whether it is going out for expensive meals, whether it is putting away that money, investing it into, into stocks or something. I think that everyone has to kind of define it for themselves. But I think just that combination of having your basic needs met and then having a healthy budget to kind of freely allocate to whatever is important to you.
- [13:50]
B
I love that. I, I, I agree with you. I, I would say it is, that does differ for everybody. The way that I described it in my head and I still do to this day in the past and also now is it's this idea of, I think it's a spectrum. I think there's like different levels to financial freedom. Just like there's different levels to like lots of things. Level one is like, probably what you just described is like you have the enough income, maybe it's passive, maybe it's semi passive savings, financial resources, to live the life that you're currently living without, like, feeling a lot of financial pressure, financial stress. And that's like level one. And ideally, this should come from something that's outside of your job, because your job is not necessarily gonna free. Like, that can go away in a second. So therefore, it usually has to come from some sort of financial independence. So whether it's your, your business, multiple businesses, maybe it's real estate, maybe it's some sort of investment, but it should be cash flow. It needs to be more than your, your current expenses. And then like, there's level two and level three. And I don't know how many levels there are to this, to be honest, but the way that I think about it is level two would probably be something like all my businesses could shut down and I'm still completely fine forever. And level three is like, I can legit do whatever I want financially. I could buy anything that I possibly want, and I would never, ever break financially. And so, and then you move like, the game is to get to one level one, and then to progress to level two, and then to progress level three, depending on your ambitions. So if you want to go and donate the million dollars per year to this fund that you're really passionate about, level one is not going to get you there, but level three will get you there. And that's true financial freedom. Like, that's level three financial freedom in my head. But that's not the game. You need to start with getting to level one first. And that's probably what mostly what we're going to be talking about today.
- [15:45]
A
Yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting. I've never thought about it like that, but there is definitely levels to this. And like, I don't, I don't really feel completely financially free. There's a lot of different aspects, aspects to it. I think certainly one part of it is as well having multiple income streams. Because like you said, your job can go away straight away. But also any of these kind of marketplaces that we sell on, those can go away. There's lots of different aspects of business that have that risk attached to it where it makes sense to kind of diversify, have multiple income streams. That gives you more financial freedom, I would say for sure. But yeah, there is definitely levels to this. Obviously, the, like, the, the goal or the, the ultimate thing that we, we kind of envision or maybe some of us work towards is like, literally just having so much passive income coming in, so many savings that you don't really have to work. You can, you you can do whatever you want every day for the rest of your life. That would be like complete financial freedom. But then I think some people that also wouldn't really necessarily make that happy because then they have. They have nothing to kind of work towards. No grind.
- [16:50]
B
I'll challenge that. Like, I think that. I think you're right completely. I agree with that. I will also say, though, is, I don't think what you're saying is the goal is to get to this and then do it. I think it's the more so the goal is to achieve that financial freedom, to have the option to do it. And you could choose not to do it. You could choose not to take the, you know, the retired life, I mean, or you can choose to take it. It doesn't really matter. But the point is it's your choice. And that's like true freedom, in my opinion. Like, you have the choice to take it or not. That's where I see the power. It's the power of, like, I want to be able to do what I want with what you said when I want, like, on my time with whoever I want, meaning I don't go into business with anyone. I don't choose to go in business with. I don't talk with anybody. I don't hang out with anybody. I don't really want to be around. Like, that's. That's the ultimate unlock, I think, for me.
- [17:41]
A
No, that makes a lot of sense. Having the option there to say, I could do whatever I want right now or not. That's. That. That would definitely be great. And also, I think working to a level where it can affect your entire family, all of your friends, like, where you can. Where you can use your financial freedom to help the people that you love or that are close to you. I think that's also a big part of my goal or what I'm working towards and what some people probably feel is financial freedom is if, you know, you can, for example, retire your parents or, I don't know, help pay for your sister's school or something like that. That's. That's just my.
- [18:20]
B
Is that you. Is that part of your big why. Why you do all this?
- [18:24]
A
Yeah, I think. I think that's a big motivator because I've. I'm very lucky now to. To be in that level one position where my personal needs are pretty much met for the most part. I. I can travel and work from wherever I want in the world. Technically. I. I have enough to. To invest and to save up. I do have Savings. But I would like to help my. My family, like, retire them early, for example. That is definitely a goal that's still driving me. And that's. Yeah, that's very motivating.
- [18:59]
B
Why do you feel like you want to do that? And by the way, I ask because I'm actually very curious. It's been. That's a driving for higher life. Yeah. Yeah. 100% it's. And it's not something that I don't. My parents probably won't listen to this podcast, but it is. It's a very, very important thing for me.
- [19:16]
A
Did they know? Do they know you want to do.
- [19:18]
B
They don't know this.
- [19:19]
A
They don't know. Mine don't either.
- [19:21]
B
Yeah, I want to hope they don't listen. Exactly. Same. But if they do, hey, that's what it is. But it's a huge driving force for me to. And it's not because I. They expect me to. That's not why. It's because it's a. It's a big want for me and my wife as well. We're on the same page for a long time to do this. And I'm curious of what does that look like from your perspective? Like, what does that mean to retire them? Because I've wrestled with this and talked a lot of. Had a lot of conversations with very wealthy people about this conversation, and no one has a great answer, in my opinion, so far. And I'm so I'm curious what yours. What is the definition. Definition of, oh, I'm going to go and do it, and this is how I'm going to do it. Have you thought about that?
- [20:03]
A
The how or the why? I think both might be interesting. So let's start with the why. There's. There's, I think, two whys for me. One is very simple. I just. I like gifts and like, I like. I like giving gifts and surprising people. I really enjoy that. So that's definitely part of it. And, like, there's not really much of a bigger surprise than you can give than early retirement. But I think the second why and more important why is that I know that my parents, when. When they were bringing me up, me and my sister, that they gave a lot. They gave up a lot of freedom that I now have. They didn't have the location freedom. They had to go to work a lot. They couldn't travel much because of us. And all of those things they gave up. They really did all of that for us, for me and my sister. So if I can even just buy them an extra year of retirement or let them quit their job, which they both don't really enjoy their jobs, if I can buy them that time, in a sense, which is the most valuable asset we all have, that would, that would mean the world to me and hopefully also to them. And it would kind of be like a returning favor for the time that they gave up and the freedom that they gave up, which I now get to enjoy.
- [21:18]
B
What is special thing? Your parents are so lucky to have a son like you and I. And I really mean that. I have kids, I have three kids. And if my kids are thoughtful like this, I'll be so proud of them. And I don't even want them to necessarily retire me. They're not going to worry about that. But the fact that, like, if they think this way, man, that it's, it's like I know that I've done my job perfectly, you know, if they're so thoughtful like this. So congratulations on being like that person for your, for your parents.
- [21:44]
A
Thank you. Thank you. And the, and the. How, how does it look like? It's tough to say. I've thought about this a few times. Like, what would make more sense? Being able to pay, pay my parents a consistent monthly wage, in a sense that would be like their pension and being able to say that I can do that for the next 10 years. I don't know, whenever the actual pension hits or just having enough money saved to be able to have that lump sum to give them to, to kind of help bridge the gap. Because obviously if they, I don't know what it's like in the U.S. but if my, my parents live in Germany, if you retire early, you lose quite a significant chunk of your pension pot, which then affects your pension payments on a monthly basis. Basis. So it would kind of. If you say they retire five years early, you'd have to fill in the gap of that, that pot that gets taken away, in a sense. So it's, it's either or. I don't know really which one makes more sense. But how many years?
- [22:48]
B
Yeah, it's a question. I wrestle with this. There's also this other thing too. When you get to the point, thinking out loud here, when you get to the point where you actually can do it, you think you probably can, or you're approaching that year where you can do it. For example, like we've been talking about it much more because it's a much more realistic thing. At first. It's just like a dream and then becomes a reality and you're like, oh, okay, now it's not about, like, whether you can or not. It's a matter. Now you're questioning, like, okay, should I. How should I. How do you make sure you maximize, like, love, too? Meaning you don't want resentment just because you, like, not everybody wants your money. So you have to be like, you have to be careful about this too. About. Okay, how is this going to affect relationships now? What happens if you give your parents money and then they actually give it to some. They invest in something and now it's gone. For example, like, there's things that. There and then. And then how does that affect your relationship with them if they did this and are you gonna resent them for it now? Like, it's their money you gave it to, you know, so, like, there's so.
- [23:51]
A
Many little nuances, unexpected paths that could go. Go down. Yeah.
- [23:56]
B
So, like, we're. We're kind of in this journey now where it's like, okay, what's the most optimal way to do this? Maximizing freedom for them, but also maximizing our relationship too. Because I don't want to. The last thing you want to do is give somebody money, and then it jeopardizes the relationship. Now all of a sudden, now they look at you like you've just given them a handout and they're. Now they're all of a sudden more tiptoeing around you and stuff. Like, you don't want that either.
- [24:21]
A
Yeah. Yeah, that's. It's interesting to think about. I've never really considered that. I'd like to think that my parents wouldn't really react in a, like, an unpredictable way.
- [24:33]
B
Same.
- [24:33]
A
I do definitely imagine that they. They could be the kind to say, no, we. We can't accept this. Like, take your money and go home. We're working until we. We can officially retire.
- [24:44]
B
Which is a beautiful thing, by the way. That's the. That's the people. You want to just give everything to the people.
- [24:49]
A
Yeah.
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B
Accept it. Yeah.
- [24:50]
A
Yeah. I think they would definitely struggle to accept it, but I can't see them if they did accept it. I can't see that jeopardizing relationship because I have. I have for. I have gifted them things like. Like holidays before, and that's usually gone down well. So based on that, I. I've got my fingers crossed.
- [25:10]
B
I feel. I feel the same too, by the way. It's just things that you can't turn back after you do something like that. And so you want to make sure you're thoughtful with it ahead of time. That's the way I'm viewing it at least. And my parents and my in laws are the same. The very, very gracious people that would be appreciative of anything. I think that this kind of like goes into this next topic of I wanted to ask you about is like, do you feel like you have an obligation to yourself or a duty to the world to become who you want to be? For example, Bill is on this track of being very wealthy. You already are in a lot of people's definition of this, wealthy in time, wealthy in financial resources, things like this. And do you feel like you need to do this for your parents and for the world and for the customers? I'm curious of like how you view your place in this world. Like, is this something that you're called upon to do?
- [26:01]
A
Interesting question. I don't think I've ever thought about that. I don't think I need to do it. I think I'm still figuring out like through the years exactly what it is I want to do. Like, think that like, like all of us, I change as well. And I always discover new things about myself. I definitely feel, I have felt the last few years and really recognize that I'm. I really enjoy teaching and sharing knowledge almost more than applying it myself. So that's definitely something I feel a little bit of a calling for. Because even, even when would it have been over 10 years ago now? I had like a little gaming YouTube channel. It never went past like 3,000 subscribers and most of that was just like stupid videos of me recording myself gaming. But I did upload like a handful of videos that were tutorial style videos because I used to edit what's called montages, which is essentially clips of the video game cut together to match music, to match songs. And I enjoyed the creative process, but also the tutorial or making tutorials to teach people that sort of stuff. And those videos also like, interestingly performed relatively well for that channel. So that was already kind of a hint, I guess, of my path. But this is a long time ago. But essentially I'm trying to say that I like teaching comes quite natural to me. And I really enjoy the process of like learning a new thing. Like whether it's reading, whether it's watching YouTube videos, listening to podcasts, learning a new thing, then kind of synthesizing, thinking about how to present it and how to take that knowledge and put it into someone else's mind. And you know, that whole creative process, from learning to idea to like finished video or whatever it may be that's That's a little bit of something where I feel like I'm called to do that in a sense, because I've never. Never learned that or studied that. And this. This might sound really cocky, but I've never gone through some kind of education of how to teach. But I think I'm doing an all right job of it. I don't think I'm like, an expert, but I think I'm doing okay at that.
- [28:16]
B
You're doing pretty damn.
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A
A little bit of. A little bit of.
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B
That's the opposite of cocky. I mean, you're very modest in that way. I mean, 100,000 people plus, 115,000 people plus would agree that you're a great teacher. That's why they follow along to learn what you're teaching. And that's.
- [28:31]
A
I. I hope so. I hope so.
- [28:32]
B
It's absolutely true. And I learned a lot from you, too, so I appreciate that. And people listening to this would feel the same. I feel like how I view this is. And I'm wrestling this with my brain, as, you know, it's. As you just said, it's like an evolution, and we're constantly evolving and changing our mind all the time. But the way that I think about it now, and I have in the past few years, is I have an obligation to succeed. Like, I owe it to my family and I owe it to our customers. I owe it to my friends. You and my other friends, I owe it to them. Actually. It's not just about me, and it's not selfish anymore. Whereas if when I say something like, I don't need to be successful, but it would be cool, I feel like I would argue that that's small time thinking, Cody. Like, Cody, you're thinking about yourself only, and it's comfortable to stay small, and that's why you're thinking this. But there's a lot of people that rely on you, Cody. Like, there are your customers, your friends who could benefit when you grow. Like, they'll grow more. And your family, for God's sakes, like, you have three kids. Can you imagine one of your kids being like, dad, I just want to, like, be normal, or, I'm sorry, be very average. And, like, I'm gonna be like everybody else. You would. You would probably say, that's fine. You could do whatever you want to do, but you'd also want them to be like, dad, I want to grow and be the best version of myself, and I want to help a bunch of people around me. And that's what I think that we have the duty to do like I have the duty to do this. And I think everybody listening to this has the duty to do this as well. But I found that we need permission from ourselves in order to like achieve like actually go after that. And I think a couple years ago, maybe six, seven years ago, I got it in my mind that oh wow, this isn't an option, Cody. To be successful, it's not an option. You actually have to be successful financially because you have to think about not just what today is true, but what the future is going to bring. For example, when you have kids. Got it. When you have like elderly grandparents, what happens when the treatment, they don't have money for treatment. Or what about when your parents. Somebody gets cancer, like do you. And you. The insurance won't cover all of it. Do you really want to like put it in the, the government's hands or the just throw it up to chance whether this should get the best treatment or not? Do we really want to do that? It's like. Or do you want to be the person, the woman or the guy to be like, hey, no problem, let's just take care of it. Like financially it's taken care of now we, we give it up to God now at this point. Right. But the financial stuff taken care of. Like for me, I've always wanted to be like that person, to be like, oh, got it. You have cancer. How much is it gonna cost? Let's fix it. Oh, you have surgery. Like your knee went out and it's like $60,000 for the, for the, for the surgery. Okay, well, it's pretty damn important, mom, you know, like let's. I'll take care of it. Like that's the person. So.
- [31:33]
A
Oh, that's very inspiring. And you're very forward thinking in that sense. Which, which I admire because. Yeah, those kind of things, like thinking very far ahead as well too. When your parents are. They might need to go into care home. Those kind of things are usually what, what creates a lot of difficulties in families as well. Or like arguments between siblings, whatever it may be. So just thinking that far ahead and using that as inspiration is really smart, I think. I never really thought about the, the medical aspect as much because of the insurances here that usually covering that kind of stuff. But it definitely makes thing sense for you know, that you live in the U.S. one more thing I want to touch on there. I like that, that belief of yours that you almost need to succeed or you want to become the best version of yourself. I actually heard an interesting Take in in a podcast recently about this where the majority of people out there who are like pursuing these journeys of wanting to become financially free, starting online businesses, etc. They don't, they have some self belief but usually not as much as they could do. So you might assume that you're not very talented and therefore it's going to take you way longer or, and whether that is design or researching or, or being analytical, whatever it may be, a lot of people have these self doubts and they have, they don't have a lot of self belief which means that the competition of people that have sort of medium self belief is really, really thick. But actually getting to that next level that you need a lot of self belief for, there's not that many people that have that. So it's almost easier to compete at that higher level of people who are just really, really confident in themselves, regardless of their skill set or their talent. Which was kind of an interesting angle to look at it from. That that's doing yourself disservice by constantly doubting yourself.
- [33:21]
B
That's a really cool way to think of it. I've never thought of it in the self belief arena. That's a really cool way to think about it. I completely agree. Because there's so many people like in that it's like think of the market if you're a print on demand seller or you sell shirts like if you're all thinking there. But what if you like can sell bundles of shirts?
- [33:40]
A
Right?
- [33:40]
B
And it's like there's way less people doing that but there's still a lot of demand for that. Like the point is you stand out and all of a sudden you're in the 1% versus you were in like the 80 percentile.
- [33:51]
A
Yeah. You can do the same with your, with your brain, with your self belief. You can niche down, niche down into the subset of people that actually believe that they can do great and that they can reach higher levels than all the other people believe.
- [34:03]
B
I agree. It's interesting. I mean I've been playing with this more and more in my head of how to separate yourself from all the noise out there. And what you said was, was spot on. And another way of looking at this for me, I was actually just thinking about this yesterday is that I find that the bigger that you think about your life and the more intentional that you think about your life, you kind of do the same thing. You're all of a sudden rare. You're all of a sudden like you're just rare. Like you're the you're the weird one in the group. You're like, oh, he just, he thinks differently. And it's not even because you're a different person. It's just simply because you're just thinking about like 10 years from now instead of tomorrow, next week. And then if you start thinking about 30 years from now about like your business and your life and your family and what does that look like and your legacy that you're leaving, all of a sudden you're extra, extra rare. And when the, the bigger that you think, I find that it's easier to actually get a community around you. And like people, people actually want to think this way, they just don't really know how. And so I guess what I'm saying is I encourage anyone listening to this is to give yourself permission to dream and think a little bit further out, think a little bit bigger and step outside of this like normaly. And what you'll find is that it's way quieter up here, way quieter. And it's way more peaceful and it gets really clear. Almost like you go above all the clouds and all of a sudden it's just like an open sky. And that's the way I view it. It's fun to think about though. I'm gonna talk about.
- [35:43]
A
And also to the kind of people who, who might think that because it's 2025 now, you know, print on Amanda, whatever you're trying to start. This stuff has been around for so long, it's too late to get into this. You've missed the, the gold rush in a sense that is so untrue. Like I see it all the time and, and I've got a free community on, on Discord where we've got a specific channel. And these are all just ordinary people. Many of them have jobs, they have families, they don't have like 24 hours a day to dedicate to this. And you see them posting screenshots from their year over year progress, meaning 2023 to 2024. And some people have double, tripled, maybe even 10x their business just through being dedicated and putting in time into this. And that is right now, that's happening right now on, on mostly Amazon merch, some people selling on Etsy because my content is a lot of Amazon merch. That's why more Amazon screenshots get shared. But yeah, it is definitely possible. And even for me, I never thought that I'd get to a level of sales like one I'm at now. Like when I started out, I was hoping to first of All I was hoping to maybe cover some bills, like help out with a few bills. I remember my first Q4, I was kind of dreaming of hitting $100 a day, stuff like that. Because at the time that was like a significant amount of money, way more than my job was pay per day. And yeah, now, now this past Q4, I've had multiple thousand dollar days, which is so far past that point that I was originally imagining or hoping for. And I, I haven't found a secret method. Like I haven't. There's no, no kind of hidden, hidden strategy that I've suddenly stumbled upon. All I did was I stuck to this. Yes, I enjoyed it and I had a little bit of design experience up front, but besides that, I just stuck to it. Kept learning, trying to improve different things, also failing a lot along the way, making mistakes and, and designing and uploading a lot of stuff that never sold. That's the part of everyone's journey. But yeah, over the years I've now come to this place that I never thought I'd get to the beginning or yeah, couldn't really have dreamed of.
- [38:04]
B
Is that crazy? Isn't that crazy? I love. I got chills just thinking about what you were saying. I remember the first time I saw an Amazon account. I saw I was selling Amazon fba. That was like my first. One of my first journeys in E commerce. And my friend who I'm still friends with today, he showed me his Amazon FBA account. It wasn't mine, it was his. He was screen sharing. And it was like a thousand dollars, thirteen hundred dollars in. In like you said today, right? It was like one day. And I remember, okay, yeah. And I remember just being like, that's from today. And he's like, yeah. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is insane. The potential here. And he's like, this is tiny. And I'm like, that's crazy to me. And that was 10 years ago now, probably. And now it's like. I have a question for you actually with the same topic. What is the biggest day that you've ever seen?
- [38:53]
A
The biggest stay on in terms of.
- [38:54]
B
My sales, in revenue, sales, whatever.
- [38:56]
A
General. Yeah. Combined. Combined for me would have probably been like, do you mean in terms of all platforms or all my businesses together?
- [39:06]
B
Sure, yeah. Why I'm asking. This is because I want people to now expand their thinking. Remember like Phil, when he's never, he never even saw a screenshot like that. He's never seen a dashboard. That's as much like he didn't even know it's possible. And Cody, who 10 years ago did not even know what was possible with E Commerce. And if you could be like, hey, in a few years, this is possible. Actually, I want to show them, tell them what's possible. So, yeah, across all businesses, what's the bigger you could estimate? It doesn't matter.
- [39:37]
A
In combination, these are like lots and lots of income streams coming together. But the. When I've tracked it on a visual, on an individual day basis, the biggest day I've seen is. Is six. Six thousand in a day.
- [39:52]
B
Let's go.
- [39:53]
A
Which I. I can't. Like, I can't even comprehend that. Just saying out loud, it sounds stupid. Like, that's when I started working in the UK. Just for reference, this was in 2017. I was doing an apprenticeship, which is essentially where you. Where you learn a job. I don't know what it's called in the US you start to learn the job, but you get paid less.
- [40:14]
B
Yeah. Internship, apprentice.
- [40:16]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, something like that. I think I was making £400 at the beginning, which is roughly 500amonth, right? 6,000 a day. I don't even. I don't even know how to describe. This is crazy to me. It doesn't feel real bonkers.
- [40:31]
B
It is bonkers. And thank you for sharing that too, because it. People don't even understand that that was even possible, probably. So there's certain people listen to this and their eyes just widened and they're just like, whoa, that's possible. And you know what's the crazy thing? Guys, for guys, girls listening to this is. That's tiny compared to the potential. Like there's.
- [40:49]
A
Oh yeah, there's hundreds of millions of.
- [40:51]
B
Dollars coming through this online stuff every single day, and there's enough for you to play and carve out your piece. And that's the biggest thing I want someone to take away is that it's not that the market is so big, it's growing. Take advantage of this opportunity because you'll thank yourself in 10 years from now when you. When you do that. $6,000 a day, or maybe it's a $60,000 day.
- [41:13]
A
And also for the people listening who are towards the beginning of their journey, that is definitely like a peak day for me. That's not normal. Like, that's not my average day. For sure. It's a peak kind of thing. And I've also had days like you, where I had zero sales. Like, that's how everyone starts out. You start your journey, you upload stuff, you put in a lot of work. But then you have a week where you sell like three things. That's just, it's part, it's part of it. And that's why I also brought up my community. I can bring up one example of a guy who I've also had on my podcast who he's a full time teacher and he's, he's got a family, he's got two kids I believe. And he posted his progress where on a certain day during December, I think it was like the 11th of December, so peak Q4 day for Amazon merch. At least he said in 2022 he had one sale on that day. This is the year he started. So he was happy to have one sale that day. He remembers 2023, he had 14 sales on the same day. So he's 14x to sales. Not bad. But still 14 sales isn't like mind blowing for Q4. And then this year he had 100 or just over 100, something like that. So in two years, even though initially it was just one sale, he's 100x that and that with a full time job with a family. So this is possible. You just need to stay consistent at it. That beginning phase of the first few months for almost everybody is going to suck. Like there is some outliers that just get really lucky, hit a trend or they, they have some kind of insight into a niche and they just out of the gate get a lot of sales. But that's really the case. Most people, they start off in the first few months, they sell hardly anything.
- [43:05]
B
I completely agree. Oh my gosh. Completely agree. How would somebody get started today, Phil? So if somebody's listening to this right now and they just opened up their Amazon merch account or they just opened up their Etsy shop or they just launched their website or maybe they want to start a website and actually drive traffic, Facebook ads and all this stuff to that. What, what kind of mindset do they need to have going into this thing? And what were the first three things they should be thinking about getting good at in order to have that first sale? Maybe the first 10 sales.
- [43:38]
A
Let's think about the, the three things first of all. So I think number one is definitely you need to think about the niches that you enter because there is, there's a lot of variables to the, to the niches that you go into find and they're going to potentially enter to do with the, the competition and the demand. And the most potential is usually in very high demand niches. So whether you're targeting Moms or maybe gaming fishing. Like those are some of the or nurses. Some of the biggest niches out there. But those also having a lot of competition are usually tough to sell in as a beginner if you do not have advertising budget and if you don't really know how to design something that looks better than what's already out there. A seasoned like printed a mansella who knows what they're doing, who's got the ability to run ads, they'll be able to compete in those niches more easily. You as a beginner I think it is sometimes better to to do a bit of research and find niches that are lower in competition. That doesn't mean has to be super low with no demand, but sort of low to medium competition niches is what I would focus on initially just to give yourself a bit of a chance because it's likely that right now, unless you're a graphic designer already, your designs probably suck. And a big aspect of why people buy your stuff, whether it's Amazon, Etsy, whatever you're selling Shopify is your design. Even if you, even if you have a lot of ad budget, if your design sucks, no one's going to buy it. Right. Design is key. But also the niches that you're placing those designs in are important especially as a beginner because I think if they're too high competition, especially at the start, you almost, you almost making it too difficult for yourself and making that beginning period more depressing because you go on to struggle and you kind of get lost on page 100 in the search results in most cases.
- [45:35]
B
Do you feel like I know you use ever be a lot to kind of understand the nice research? I think it's one of the most critical parts of starting the journey. How would somebody two steps. What's the first thing they should go do and ever be research to like identify a niche that you said low competition but you obviously need some sort of sales. Like what would you tell somebody? They're like I don't know how to use ever be research. What is ever be research? So like can you walk them through just again maybe 30 seconds max of like what you think somebody should do to start?
- [46:02]
A
Yeah. So a good looking niche that there's multiple, multiple aspects to this or multiple kind of data points that can help you identify demand within a niche. Let's start out with that. So demand with an Everbee you've got the favorites, you've got the, the estimated revenue per month or the estimated sales per month. What's also important to look at is the listing age, I would say, because sometimes you'll find niches that have, you know, tons of listings that do extremely well, but they're all very, very old. They might have like four years, five years of history and getting a lot of regular sales, but then that might be a niche that's harder to break into. So you do want to look for niches that have hundreds of sales a month is, is sort of ideal or get as close as possible to that. Also high favorite counts, hundreds of favorites, thousands of favorites. But at the same time, you want the listings to be somewhat fresh, like ideally within the past year, which shows that there is potential to move into that niche with new listings, with new designs. It doesn't mean it has to just be young listings, but you know, healthy mixture. At the same time, when it comes to, to competition, you also want to look at search results. So Etsy ever be helps you actually see the real search results. You know, Etsy made that change last year where it only says a thousand plus. Now you can't really tell how many people are competing in that search term. So if you open up ever be, I think this even works on the free plan. You can, you can search the whole database and it'll tell you, well, there's like 5,000 people here or there's 500,000 people here. And I don't think there's an exact number in terms of like what search results or below which search results you need should be. It's just obviously the lower, the easier it's going to be to break into that niche and rank something at the top. So it's always an interplay of, of demand and competition. You, you do obviously ideally want as much demand as possible, but most times that also means you have a ton of competition. The more you can kind of get that competition down, meaning less search results and also younger listings, the more the demand is usually going to go down. You want to try and find a healthy balance. You don't just want to go low competition, something that has like 50 search results and has no demand, like got it five times a month. It's, it's hard to explain, I think theoretically speaking without actual examples.
- [48:34]
B
I think yeah, you nailed it though. I mean, basically get in there, poke around. You're going to learn, use the filter. You, you're basically saying, hey, go in there, search for something, search in mom's shirt and then literally you're going to see it. And then go to filters filter or customize filter basically by listing age and you're just going to see like the top ones and then you can just play with it, play with it more, ask more questions in your head. But yeah, got that. That's, that's beautiful. Thank you for that. Do you think that.
- [49:01]
A
And there's multiple, multiple approaches. Well like that filtering and sorting by listing age. That's one approach. But I'm sure if you play around with everybody, you're going to find other methods. Like I've, I've seen a way where you can actually sort by favorites and you will, you will find some listings have a ton of favorites but that have barely any sales because they're so new that they're not even tracked yet with an ever.
- [49:24]
B
B. Yeah.
- [49:26]
A
So you have a listing that's like brand new, has tons of favorites. So obviously lots of people are clicking on it and seeing this listing but it's not even showing up as like a high revenue item yet. That's how fresh it is. So there's lots of different ways you can approach it and if the more you play around the more kind of techniques you'll probably find for yourself.
- [49:44]
B
I have a question for you. Do you ever find the, you can use ever be research and then actually apply it to selling on your website or selling an Amazon merch? Have you ever like found that any winner over here on Etsy actually could be winner on Amazon merch or selling like within your own website? Is that, have you tried that yet or not really?
- [50:03]
A
It's an interesting question. They do, they do sometimes transfer like the research you do in one platform transfers to another. I've, I've mainly done the Amazon first approach, done my research there and then place my items onto Etsy after that.
- [50:18]
B
Okay.
- [50:18]
A
And I have, I'm not just selling on those two. I'm also selling on for example display to Tea, Public, Tostadora, redbubble, like there's other platforms. And I have always found that you'll be surprised that something that sells really well for you on Amazon might not get any sales on Etsy or vice versa. Sure, that's not always the case but that, that tends to be the case for me. Or I'll have designs that never sold on Amazon and they suddenly do really well on Etsy, sometimes even on a completely different product. It's, it's one of those things that you can't really put your finger on exactly why or what exactly you should do. All you can do is I think test in that case and kind of get a bit of experience for yourself.
- [51:07]
B
I like that I agree with you. I think it's safe to say that the Internet is the Internet and people buyers are similar whether they buy on Etsy or Amazon. They are different, let's be honest, they're different animals, but they're humans. And I think like a mutual friend of ours, Chris Heckman, who also has a YouTube channel that basically teaches people how to sell on like via their own brand, Shopify primarily he just came out with a video, it's like a 30, 30 hour video on like how to do that and he's using ever be inside of that also to like research and then built build a brand on his Shopify account using every research products and doing it that way. I'm curious of how that like actually went. I haven't finished the entire training so long but I know that people do it. I think it's just a similar. You have to test it.
- [51:54]
A
I can, yeah, I can talk to you about that a little bit actually because me and Chris are doing that behind the scenes with some of the YouTubers. We, he's basically collecting people that have Amazon merch, that have Etsy stores and telling us, you know, you need to go on Shopify and test your stuff there. Because he says one of the big barriers to entry or one of the biggest struggles for the people in his kind of paid community is that they don't have a lot of good designs. Whereas on places like Amazon Etsy you optimize for having in most cases thousands of designs. Right. So we already have that kind of that hard part done or one of the hardest parts done and then it's just a case of testing ads with those designs. And so far what I found is once again what I said to you is my best sellers on Amazon or Etsy are not necessarily going to do well on Shopify. You don't know until you've tested it with ads. There is the odd design which does well on all platforms. Like those do exist for me. I have one that does really well on Etsy, really on Amazon and now also does well on, on the Shopify ads in terms of the cost per click. That's like the initial thing you look for is having a low cost per click, meaning you can pump a lot of Facebook ads without running out of budget too quickly. But yeah, you can, you can definitely transfer a lot of the things, a lot of the knowledge that you gain from these marketplaces to your own Shopify store as well. And that's like having quality designs targeting big niches. Ideally you want quite big, broad Niches on Shopify, so you have more of an audience to tag with the Facebook ads. So that's a little bit of a different game there.
- [53:33]
B
Sure. I get that. I love this. I think it's a good time to transition into kind of our final rapid fire round, we think. You ready?
- [53:40]
A
Okay. Yeah.
- [53:43]
B
What's your favorite business book?
- [53:45]
A
Business book? Good question. I really, really liked the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. It's not just business, but it has a lot of really good actionable bias that. That will also help you out with business a lot, I would say.
- [54:04]
B
What's the one thing that you wish that you knew before starting your business?
- [54:10]
A
Wow, that's a good one. Just have more self belief in yourself. I would say, like, based on our conversation today as well, I think that could have sped up things a lot.
- [54:23]
B
What's the worst advice that you've ever received about business?
- [54:26]
A
I don't really know. I can't answer that one off the top of my head.
- [54:30]
B
We'll come back to it. How many hours do you think that you work on your business per week?
- [54:35]
A
Per week. I think now I'm a fairly healthy balance. It's probably between 30 and 40 hours most weeks. It's definitely been more. And that's the thing that we didn't touch on. But I think it's very important for beginners. It's like for most. For most of us or most of the people I speak to anyway in the space, it's a lot of effort up front. And over the years, your effort kind of or the time input slows down a bit, whereas your income either stays the same or keeps growing, which is why these business models are so attractive.
- [55:05]
B
You front load it, right? You front load all the work.
- [55:07]
A
Yeah.
- [55:07]
B
And then I think where it's tricky too is depends on your ambitions, but you optimize for things. It goes up, the income comes up, but your time needed to spend on the operational part of the business goes down. But then you start working on more strategic things in the business that actually give you more leverage to actually increase the actual income even more. And that's where it starts to be really fun.
- [55:26]
A
Exactly. Yeah. That's kind of the stage I'm at.
- [55:29]
B
That's awesome. If your family and your friends and your customers, your people that know you interacted with you, they ought to get together and they had to get in a room without you, and they had to write an article or a blog post or some sort of book or something about you characterizing who Philip is. The good stuff and also the bad stuff.
- [55:50]
A
Okay.
- [55:50]
B
What are some things that they would say about you?
- [55:56]
A
You've got tough questions, man. I don't know. That's. That's hard for me to say. I'd. I would like. I'd hope that they say them. I'm a kind person that is good at listening, that is helpful, encouraging, fun to be around. That's what I hope. I don't know the negatives, I don't know, but forgetful, maybe. Weird, Weird accent. I think that's what. Definitely what some of my friends would say because I've now got. I've got an English accent when speaking my native language, German. But yeah, I don't know.
- [56:43]
B
Good.
- [56:44]
A
I hope that's an answer.
- [56:45]
B
Love it. How would you define a creator? Who is a creator? Who is a creator to you?
- [56:50]
A
Typically when I hear creator, I think of like a YouTuber as my initial thought, but I think it's definitely more than that. Like in a sense, all the people in this printed amount world, they are creators, in a sense. They are creative people because they are coming up with things. They are putting out things into the world. Whether it is designs, whether it is YouTube content, digital assets, it's. Yeah, it's anyone who brings ideas from their mind out into the real world in some form or another, whether that is a T shirt or a sweatshirt that someone receives at the end of the day, or whether that is information someone receives through video that they can then apply to their own lives.
- [57:34]
B
I agree with you. I love that. I feel like everyone wrestled with this for a while too. And I'm getting. I'm putting my finger on it now and I'm actually more confident with saying like, every single one of us are creators, we just don't necessarily know it yet. Not everybody knows that they're actually a creator, but every single person that we come across, like they are creating their life one way or another and they're doing it either intentionally or non intentionally, and that's fine. And then, then there's this like subsegment of this, who are actually doing it intentionally. And they're creating like a print on demand design. They're creating a business, they're creating a course, they're creating a YouTube channel, they're creating content, they're creating a digital product, a template. These people are creators and they're creating their life, their future financial life. And I love this aspect of it. And it made it so much more clear to me that it's so much more inclusive and bigger. That's just Being like, oh, yeah, there's content creators, then there's, like, sellers. And I'm like, that didn't sit right with me. I'm like, no, they're creators. They're just different types of creators. Some of them are creating a physical product and some of them are creating content, but they're both underneath the creator category. And. And then there's also, like, startup people, people like, more in tech. Like, maybe myself. I'm like, I'm definitely a creator. I know that I am. And so I'm throwing myself in that category too. So maybe it's my own. My own thing. But it's. It's a fun question. Everyone's a creator, 100% almost for me. But I want to hear your opinion.
- [59:05]
A
Yeah.
- [59:05]
B
Last question. Do you think that everybody should be a business owner?
- [59:09]
A
No. No, definitely not. I think there's a lot of ugly science to business or, like, draining sides to business that some people, Some people just wouldn't want to have in their lives. I think everyone could be if they set their mind to it and wanted to redo it or they had a big why. But I think. I think some people wouldn't really enjoy it or would prefer to find a job that gives them some sort of fulfillment and have consistent income, kind of be told what to do more. More regularly. There's also a lot of discipline involved with it, with the business, which some people might not have or not not know the tools to have that discipline where, you know, you need to plan your own time and if you don't do anything, no one else does it unless you've already built a team. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of things that come with it. A lot of responsibility and, like, annoying backend things. Taxes, bookkeeping. Like, there's so many things attached to it, which I think some people. Yeah. Would. Would rather actually be employed. And that's totally fine. I think that's. That's cool. You can. You can find fulfillment through employment or other things in life than being a business owner.
- [60:24]
B
I love that. Do you feel like you have to be either or, like a business owner or an employee?
- [60:29]
A
No. No, I wouldn't say you have to. I think you can be both for sure. I never really thought about that, but what do you think?
- [60:38]
B
I wrestle with this one too. I like. I like these. I like to have these podcast sessions, so selfishly, if I'm honest, because I get to, like, learn and I get to, like, question my own. My own thinking of this.
- [60:47]
A
Yeah.
- [60:48]
B
But I met this. If you asked me today like the same question. Do you think everyone should be a business owner? I would say yes. Every, every single person should be a business owner.
- [60:57]
A
Really?
- [60:58]
B
I do. I would probably, if you asked me that two years ago, I would say no way. It's too hard. It's, it's, it's, it can drain you, it can suck, it hurt your relationships. All this stuff.
- [61:09]
A
I don't think it's even like super hard. It's just some of the type of work and stuff. It isn't for some people, I feel. But what's changed in your mind then?
- [61:20]
B
For me, the first answer is that it's kind of optimizing for like ease or comfort. And my, my answer now is like, everyone should be a business owner. Yes. Optimizes for growth. Meaning everyone in my opinion should be trying to reach their highest potential self. Every single person. Right. If you're not doing that, then what the hell are you even doing here if honest, right? Like you are coasting and you're leaving. Like you're leaving your family behind. Like your, your sister, your brother, your, your mother, your father, your kids, your nephews, your nieces. They need you to be the best version of yourself so they can be the best version of themselves. And I think being a business owner brings that out. I think it's the fastest way to bring this out. I don't think that you should necessarily choose between having a job and also being a business owner. Today's world, I think you can do both. I think you could be a creator and have a print on demand business at the same time. I think it'll make you a better full time employee. Now with that being said, like being a business owner stretches you so much and so fast and it makes you a better human. That's what I believe. It makes you a better friend. It makes you a better father, wife, husband because it requires you to be a problem solver constantly. And I, for me to say, no, everyone shouldn't be a business owner. I feel like I'm taking that away from, from somebody I'm paying. I'm basically putting you in the box of, oh, I'm just gifted at this, by God, and you're not. So like this is for me and people like me and that's, that's for you. Where I'm like, no, I think everyone should be. It's just the capacity. Depends. Go ahead.
- [63:02]
A
It's, it's an. Yeah, it's an interesting thought. I, I was just, while you were explaining that I was thinking like Are there some jobs where it doesn't really make sense to be a business owner where you can only really do employ like, like brain surgeon or scientists and stuff like that. But even in that case, you've got a point in that if I was a brain surgeon in a hospital or whatever, I could become a better version of myself by starting a podcast or starting some sort of show on YouTube where I teach or give tips to people, maybe getting into it or studying it or how to be a better brain surgeon. Or you, you start to connect with more people, network and get smarter through that. Like. Yeah, because in a lot of ways, like teaching is also the best way to learn, right? Because you need to really understand something in order to the teacher. And then you would get feedback from, from people based on what you teach and that will once again improve or kind of keep your, keep your knife sharp in a sense. So yeah, I think even if you are in, in some sort of job, I don't know if those are the best examples.
- [64:06]
B
Honestly. That would be the rebuttal that I would say. Except unless you're a doctor, I would probably say that to you until you just gave me that example. Because I'm like, there's a brain surgeon. Do they really have. Should they be optimizing their time to sell a print on demand product online? Probably not, right? Like we'd all agree, but when they're using it as a source of information and sharing to future doctors, to future brain surgeons, that's a pretty damn high leverage use of time and that's also giving back to the community and it's this great feedback loop to get smarter and also share with the world what you know. That's a pretty damn good use of time.
- [64:39]
A
And they could, they could push themselves to become a public speaker and give events about it. I don't know if there's enough of an audience of brain surgeons that you can find in one city, but I'm sure there's probably ways to kind of once again like grow as a person whilst also giving out more value than just your eight hours a day in the, in the room. Right. And the surgery.
- [65:03]
B
Exactly. Oh, interesting. Maybe I just flipped you on that question. Maybe I just got you to come to my side.
- [65:07]
A
Maybe. Yeah, sounds like it.
- [65:11]
B
Man, I, I'm so grateful for, for this time. Thank you for joining. I appreciate it.
- [65:16]
A
Yeah, really fun conversation. Did not expect it to go into these kind of directions, but it was really fun working Lots of things I've never thought about.
- [65:24]
B
Where can people find you? Where can people follow you, learn from you, all that stuff?
- [65:28]
A
Yeah, mostly just on the YouTube. So it's. It's Philip Anders. You type it in and it should hopefully come up with my channel. Other than that, you can connect with me a little bit better on Discord. So in all of my video descriptions, there's a link to the free Discord community, and I'm in there. You can. You can find my username and also send me DM there or just ask questions, ideally in the server, so other people can learn from it as well. And my website, so that would be philipanders.com there you can find freebies, courses, coaching links, like all sorts of stuff if you want to go further than the free stuff.
- [66:09]
B
Philip, thank you so much, man, for the time. I appreciate it. Again, I know everyone got. Yeah, man, for sure. Let's do it again. For sure. Maybe in person when you come. Come to Austin again.
- [66:19]
A
Oh, yeah, that'd be sick. I've never done a. Never done a podcast in person, so that'd be fun.
- [66:24]
B
Cool, Cool. All right, talk to you soon. Go ahead.
- [66:28]
A
We should do, like, a group one with Chris.
- [66:32]
B
That'd be fun.
- [66:33]
A
Something like that.
- [66:33]
B
1,000%. All right, brother, talk to you soon.
- [66:37]
A
Bye.