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Built Online
Army Officer to Founder: How She Turns Views Into Revenue | ft. Julianna Claire Christensen
00:32:29
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- [00:00]
A
We don't necessarily have an hour, two hours to block off every day for this like self care ritual that you see on social media. That's like a 20 step skincare plan. That's like not a thing. Right? But I was like, but I could make a really nice hand sanitizer and you could spray it and that could feel like self care throughout the day. Or if you, you know, go to a restroom, especially for women, you could bring your own toilet seat covers and I could make it, you know, really aesthetic.
- [00:27]
B
Yeah. Make it feel like it's high end.
- [00:28]
A
And you feel like high end and like it's luxurious and we're all using the restroom every day. So like, why not elevate that experience for yourself?
- [00:35]
B
Hey there. I'm Cody McGuffey. I'm a husband dad of three and I'm the founder of Ever Be, Ever Be, Ever Be, Ever Be where we serve over a million creators across the globe, helping them grow thriving online businesses. I believe every single human is a creator and I believe every single creator should own a business, a business that gives them the freedom to build the life that they dream of. Built online is where creators, entrepreneurs and leaders get real insights, real stories and the edge to build something that's actually lasts. This is where the next generation builders get built. Juliana, how are you?
- [01:11]
A
Good, how are you? Thank you so much for having me on your podcast.
- [01:14]
B
Super fired up and excited to have you on and dive into your story. How, how's, how's your day so far?
- [01:20]
A
It has been good. We are currently in busy season as I'm sure a lot of your customer bases as well. Q4 is crazy, but I mean, busy is good. So I'd rather be busy than not busy during Q4.
- [01:33]
B
Super cool. I'm excited to just have you on a lot of different reasons, selfish reasons, because I just want to learn more about your story, how you built your following that you've, you've built and then how you transition into being a product based founder. Like, there's so many things that I personally want to know, but I also know that there's going to be so many things that our listeners really get value out of because they're aspiring founders. They are founders and, and they just want to hear about how you've built, what you've built and where you're going.
- [02:02]
A
No, I'm, I'm super excited to, to dive into everything.
- [02:05]
B
Let's do it. First of all, who are you? How'd you get here? Maybe tell like a little bit of your story. And now I can kind of like more.
- [02:11]
A
So I'm Juliana. I am the content creator behind the socials. Juliana Claire on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, I'm on Pinterest, I'm on all the major social media platforms at this point. Point. I've been a content creator for over 10 years now, going on 11, which is actually wild to think about.
- [02:33]
B
Insane.
- [02:34]
A
And this past year in 2025 I launched my very own company. We are a very small business called Rome and our tagline is keeping you clean wherever you roam. And they are self care essentials that you can use throughout your day as you go about living your life. And so I really wanted to provide affordable but luxurious products that you can use specifically kind of like while you're using the restroom. So we have hand sanitizer, toilet seat covers are right here. We've got single pack wipes right here. And then we have our award winning because we just won a People magazine Travel Award in 2025 for our soap sheets. So those are our four core products that we launched with. Yes.
- [03:24]
B
So I was excited. Yeah, super, super exciting. I didn't know that it was just recently started this year.
- [03:30]
A
Yeah, we're brand new.
- [03:32]
B
Congratulations. Yeah. The website for anyone listening to this is romeclean.com it's R O A M E C L e a n clean.com and it does kind of give that vibe. Exactly what you said, like affordable but also like luxurious type of feel. So and I'm, that's, that's awesome. I can tell that like your, your experience of content creation has translated to like brand storytelling on your guys's side as well. So that's, that's really awesome.
- [04:02]
A
It's what I, I love creating content. I've like I said, I've been doing it for going on 11 years and creating content as a content creator is so different from creating content as a business owner. They don't necessarily translate, but the storytelling is the same. Because I think that if you're going to create content online, you should be telling a story. What's the point you're trying to get across like why are you posting this type of content? Is it informational, is it educational, is it funny? What's your why? And so that doesn't change regardless if you're a content creator or a business owner. Creating content for social media.
- [04:44]
B
Amazing. I want to kind of go back to, take us back to when you maybe before you started content. What were you doing before 11 years ago? What were you doing before, like creating your first Content.
- [04:57]
A
Yeah. So I actually graduated from the United States military academy in 2013. So when you graduate from there, you commission as a second lieutenant in the Army. So I was a Army officer. So this is way back. So this is 2013. I just graduated West Point. I was at my very first duty station at Fort Lewis, Washington, which is right next to Seattle. And as you can imagine, the army is extremely regimented. And I had just done four years of essentially a military college, also very regimented. And now I had a little bit of say in my free time in terms of what I wanted to do, and I knew I needed a creative outlet. And at the time, and you probably remember this, Cody, because I feel like you're an OG too. There was a little buzz around this app called Instagram. And I remember I was like, what is this? So I remember I created a profile. It was at julianaclaire, which I have kept all these years. And I popped on there and in the Explore page, at the time, it was just images on Instagram. Now you can do carousels and videos, and there's so many different media types that you can upload, but at the time, it was just pictures. And I stumbled across this group of women who were uploading the most beautiful images that I have ever seen in my life. I felt like I was just being transported into a different world. And I started following these women. And after probably about a month, I was like, what is this? When I realized that, like, this is what they were doing full time. And underneath one of their names, the title said blogger. And I was like, what the heck is a blogger? Because this was all so new back then. Like, there was no term influencer. You know, a very small percentage of people were actually making a living. 2013, it was October of 2013.
- [07:01]
B
Crazy.
- [07:02]
A
I will never forget that. And I remember sitting in my car. I've. I've had like a handful of light bulb moments in my life. And I was sitting in my car. It was 5:30 in the morning. It was right before Army PT physical training. And I remember sitting in my car. I go, this is what I want to do with my life. Like, this is. This is what I want to do. And I remember thinking to myself, well, that's great, Juliana, but you have five years left of active duty army service to do, and you are deploying to Afghanistan in less than six months. When are you gonna do this? And so I actually started doing research because, again, there was. There was nothing about how to start a blog, anything. So I went to Barnes and Noble I got. I'm not kidding, Vlogging for Dummies. I got photography 101. I got all these books and brought them to Afghanistan with me. And in my very limited free time, I was learning about hosting and how to get a domain. And so I started my fashion blog while I was in Afghanistan, because why not? I mean, who's stopping me? So I started it then just kind of getting the website created. And then when I redeployed eight and a half months later, within a month or two, it was up and running. I was. I used my free time. So every single weekend, when I got home from work, if I had some free time during lunch, I was creating content, I was blogging. It was such a joy. I was having so much fun. I was not making a dime. I was not making a dime, but I was having the time of my life. And so I did that for four years as I finished up my military service. And at that point, I. I was like, you know what? I'm going to give myself six months to try and do this full time. And if I can't make a living doing this in six months, then I will go find a job in corporate. And I feel very fortunate because I was married at the time, so my husband, if I were to just completely bomb, you know, my husband, could financially support us. So I felt very grateful that I. I had that privilege to kind of take this opportunity, and it worked. And I have never looked back since. I've been creating content ever since then. And then four years ago, back in. When would that be? 20. 20, 2021. I, being an influencer, being a content creator, sometimes it keeps me up at night because I always worry. And maybe this is a personal insecurity, but, like, are people going to get sick of me? Are people not going to like my content anymore? The income fluctuates from month to month, right? There's not like that income. And I thought to myself, I really want to start my own brand. Same kind of situation as when I was at Fort Lewis. Like, okay, that's great, Juliana, but, like, what's your product? You have no money to start your own brand. Like, how do you do this? How do you find a manufacturer? Like, there's so many questions. And so I started saving up my money. I took two years to figure out what products I really wanted to create. And my audience on social media really helped guide me in that. And I was looking at what people were purchasing through affiliate marketing. And affiliate marketing is where, you know, I help potentially sell something through organic content. And then if someone purchases something, I might get a, like a small kickback on that. And so what people were really purchasing.
- [10:42]
B
Were from you particularly. Particularly.
- [10:43]
A
Yep, from me particularly because I don't have access to anyone else's. But for me particularly was these self care items that they could take with them on the go. And I had just become a mom and it was another light bulb moment. I was like, this is what women and men need is to feel this little moment of self care throughout the day. Because with so many of us. Right. You told me you have three kids, I have a daughter. You run your own business. So many of your, your audience members are founders running their own business. They're busy. We don't necessarily have an hour, two hours to block off every day for this like self care ritual that you see on social media. That's like a 20 step skincare plan. That's like not a thing. Right. But I was like, but I could make a really nice hand sanitizer and you could spray it and that could feel like self care throughout the day. Or if you, you know, go to a restroom, especially for women, you could bring your own toilet seat covers and I could make it, you know, really aesthetic.
- [11:42]
B
Yeah. High end. And you feel like high end.
- [11:46]
A
And like it's luxurious and we're all using the restroom every day, so like, why not elevate that experience for yourself? And so I started doing research and we launched Roam this year. We're very, very small, but I'm so proud of the progress that we've made so far. So that's, that's really my story in a nutshell.
- [12:05]
B
Yeah, you did a great job of telling that story and thank you sharing that. Yeah, it's. There were so many questions that I wanted to like, inter inter, but I, I kind of just wanted to keep on listening to you kind of tell going back to when two years ago when you decided, okay, I'm going to start a brand of some sort. That's pretty much what the outcome was or the insights or the epiphany was were you already making an income? You were, you must have been sustainable as a content creator, like some sort of income.
- [12:36]
A
Yes, correct.
- [12:37]
B
How were you driving primarily, like your, your, I guess, your life at that point. Like how are you driving income from as just a content creator by itself? Was it affiliate commissions primarily? Or was it also partnership deals, sponsorship deals? What was that? What does that look like?
- [12:51]
A
Yeah, I think when you're a content creator, especially since it's evolved so much over the last decade, I would say 10 years ago, it was primarily through sponsorships where a client would come to you say, hey, we have set amount. You do these deliverables. Great. That is definitely a revenue income source for me. My strength, I think really is an affiliate marketing where I can share these products organically. These are products that I use every single day. And then if my audience wants to purchase those items for themselves, then I have a storefront or some type of affiliate marketing page that, where they can go and kind of browse all of those items. And for me, that, that worked really well for my audience. But every content creator, again, is like a little different the way that they structure their business.
- [13:41]
B
Okay, so that's what you were doing primarily on affiliate commissions. And did you feel like this? Cause obviously you have a very substantial following. And for anybody that doesn't know what is the total following count, it's like 1 million on Instagram. You could brag about. Permission to fully brag here.
- [13:58]
A
Well, I'll just lift up list, list off the fact. So it's 2.9 million on Instagram, 2.9 million on TikTok, 1 million followers on my Amazon storefront, and almost half a million on YouTube.
- [14:09]
B
Incredible. So you had to. Congratulations on all that, by the way. That is easy. And the fact that you've been able to do it is just, oh, thank you itself. And you know that. But you also probably. This epiphany probably came from like, man, I have all of this following. I have all this leverage and I can actually leverage this thing into really providing something that's like, could be life changing for myself, my family and my. For my future, while also helping a whole bunch of people at the same time.
- [14:36]
A
Yeah.
- [14:37]
B
Like, was that the, the frame of thinking that you had at that time or did you not really think about it too much? You're just like, I just want to start a brand.
- [14:45]
A
I. That's. That's a great question. So there's like levels to answering that question. So if I rewind it back a little bit, I've always had a calling to like, serve or to feel to. To provide value to people's lives. And again, that has clearly taken very many forms in my life. So the most obvious one was being an army officer. But wanting to serve or wanting to provide value to people has never really gone away for me. And I just kind of transitioned that into a more creative field. And I truly think, especially now because I heard this statistic and it was mind blowing that Jen, I believe it Was Gen Z. The percentage of them who want to become influencers is 53% or higher. And a lot of them think it's a get rich quick scheme. And if you go into creating content or you go in trying to grow an audience and your main goal is to make money, I promise you you're not going to make a dime because that's very self focused. That's very you focused. Right. My take has always been the larger your audience, the larger the responsibility and it's a serve like you are, you should be providing value to your audience always. Like it doesn't matter if you have 5 followers, 500,000 followers, 5 million. You should always be providing value. And so I think that that's what I've always done. And I think my core fear, if I'm being super honest was, well, what if there comes a day when I feel like I'm not able to provide my audience value through creating content? I want to be able to have like my own product that I feel like I'm able to provide value to, to continue to provide value and show up for this community that has believed in me for so long. And so it's, it's the same concept, but it's just kind of transitioned into different forms over the years. Hopefully that makes sense for sure. Driving force was like always providing value, like always wanting to like give back to my audience who I just don't take it for granted ever. Because again, in this field of influencers and content creators, we, we're a diamond dozen, right? There's thousands of us, tens of thousands of us, like, and there's people who want your spot. And so if you get too comfortable or if you start to take advantage of your audience, which I see all the time, they're just going to leave and they're going to go find someone else who doesn't do that. And so you should always be respecting the community that you have. And they're smart. You should never take advantage of ever.
- [17:38]
B
I could see that too. I could, I could see that. I haven't really actually thought about it from that perspective, but I could see that that could be totally a fear. My fear. Tell me if I'm like wrong. I guess if one of my fears would be probably the platform itself, like the algorithm, like somehow, like somehow deprioritizing me or something like this, or somehow I like lose my profile or something like this. But again, that's coming from somebody that doesn't have a large Instagram following. TikTok following. Right. So how Is that even a rational fear or.
- [18:08]
A
No, I think it's super rational. But I, it, the, the thing with the algorithm, because I've been doing this for so long, I mean, knock on wood, there's going to be time periods where your content is prioritized and then it's going to dip and then it's going to go back up again and then it's going to dip. And that's just all part of the process. I saw this quote, what was it? It was like no plant or flower grows year round. It's not a thing. And so there's going to be times when you grow and, and, and you're blooming and you're blossoming and you feel like you're on top of the world. And then there's other periods where you kind of need to rest or maybe you're not prioritized and that's okay too, but you still continue to show up. It's the consistency, it's the nurturing of your audience and just continuing to show up and providing value for them regardless of the algorithm.
- [18:58]
B
It's such like great business advice, but also just like great life advice, just in general. Yeah, I love that I haven't heard that quote before, but I could totally. So much value in that.
- [19:07]
A
Nothing in nature blooms year round.
- [19:08]
B
Nothing very interesting. Okay, so now you go, you decide, okay, I'm going to build some sort of brand and then two years later you actually end up launching. Four years later you actually end up launching the brand. What was important for you to, that this brand had to have in order for you to like really make the leap? Because four years is a long time, right? Two months in theory, if you knew everything that you knew. But it was a journey obviously to get to this point. So what that journey look like? Like what, what had to be what, what kind of decisions and frame of thinking did you have to have?
- [19:43]
A
I, and hopefully every business owner goes into this, but I, I wanted the highest quality products and so this hand sanitizer, oh my goodness. So this hand sanitizer took two years to formulate. I, I think I must have gone through 40 or 60 samples and the goal was to create a hand sanitizer. And I'm just using this as an example to create a hand sanitizer that left your hands hydrated, not sticky and there was absolutely no alcohol after scent to it. Like I honestly wanted it to feel more like a perfume than a hand sanitizer and nothing else is like it on the market. And I remember after about a Year and a half of going back and forth with my manufacturer, they were like this, what you're asking for doesn't exist. It can't be done. And I was like, let's just keep going. Let's just keep trying. Like, just stick with me here. Like, I thought they were going to quit on me, to be honest, and they didn't. We, I think we went through three more rounds and we finally perfected it and then we got it over the counter registered with the fda, which is actually something I'm insanely proud of. So essentially you said submit your formula and everything to the FDA and they go through it and they make sure. Because hand sanitizer is heavily, heavily regulated, but I wanted that extra stamp of approval. So when we make these claims of, you know, it kills 99.9% of most common germs and bacteria. I have the FDA, you know, stamp of approval that says, yes, it does actually do this. So all of our products have also gone through additional testing because I again, like, I don't want to take advantage of my customer base. It goes back to like providing value, creating that trust, nurturing that community, even if it's one customer I want them to have.
- [21:34]
B
That's the cool thing. That's, I love that. That's the cool thing about when you actually start with an audience. Not that you started with it, you built an audience and then you're launching a brand with your audience. Like, you feel like there's a sense of duty to them to make sure that because your, your, your, your name is on the line here, your credibility is on the line. So when you launch a bad hand hand sanitizer products, for example, like usb. Yeah, exactly. You erode trust, credibility. And then it also like, not only does it, the product suck, but also like you start to lose trust with your audience.
- [22:05]
A
Exactly.
- [22:06]
B
Your businesses kind of just fail when it comes to that. So that's really awesome.
- [22:09]
A
I think that was my biggest fear. It was like, will they come back? Right. It's, it's not that it's easy to get a customer to purchase for the first time. I do think there's, it's a little bit easier. I think it's harder to get second and third time customers. Right. Because that means that they've bought into the product, they've bought into your brand. That's harder to do in this day and age with so many products on the market. And Rome, we have an over 38% customer return rate already. I mean, and again, like, that really speaks to the quality of our product. So we have, we have a customer base. It's small, but they're there and I love them and. But they keep coming back because they love the products and they're good quality.
- [22:48]
B
And so everything's small. So who cares? Like, yeah, I mean, you guys are brand new and even if it's. Takes you. I was just reading a post the other day. Yesterday, I think it was. Somebody sent it to me and it was like, it took me 06 me six years to get to a million dollars. And then it took me two, two more years. Not me, but the team. So. Zero. Six years. Zero to $1 million and then in revenue and then another two years to get to a hundred million dollars in revenue. So it's like, it's.
- [23:15]
A
It's wild.
- [23:16]
B
This is like so exponential. It's not linear all the time. Um, yeah. So it was just a cool story of just persistence and. And you're obviously gonna. You have this. So many assets that you already have and you're leveraging with your audience and obviously a great product. It's certainly not gonna take you six years. But that's amazing.
- [23:32]
A
And if it does, so be it. I mean, it took me. I honestly didn't make a dime for four or five years when I was creating content originally. And I didn't care. But again, I know that that's coming from a place of privilege, right, Because I, I had another job and I didn't have kids at the time. So like, I understand that there's some privilege involved in that and I acknowledge that. But yeah, I just was having a blast. And I think if you're doing something that you're passionate about and you love, then the money will come later. I think that you. People get. Sometimes get so caught up in the money that they're missing some of these other pillars that need to be met. Like, is it a good quality product? Is it reasonably priced? You know, what does your website look like? And it's like you have to check off all these boxes. And I think that, you know, making money is a sign that all the other systems are working, but usually that's the last thing that's going to come in is the money.
- [24:27]
B
It's the byproduct when you're running a.
- [24:29]
A
Business, unfortunately, but it's not.
- [24:33]
B
I want to talk to you about, like, I want to ask you about your product selection too. Obviously the hand sanitizer was, was one. You also have the. A couple different bags, pouches. You also have. You. You showed the wipes Already. And I'm curious of, like, how does a. As a founder, how did you select these things? Was it purely based on, okay, I'm a woman, and this is what we should just have when we go live? Or are you thinking about this at all from a business lens of like, okay, sanitizer is a replenishable thing. It's a consumable thing that runs out. Repeat customers will come, assuming they like the product, of course, wipes, kind of the same thing. Did you think about any of that stuff up front?
- [25:11]
A
I thought about everything. I thought about all of it. Because when I was looking at what I wanted to do to build a brand, I was looking at so many different areas in the market. And one thing that I definitely wanted to do was a replenishable product. So that way, hopefully, I could continue to build that customer base. Because with some of these other products, let's just use travel, for example. Wonderful industry. Not necessarily one that I'm interested in. Because you're constantly looking to find new customers. Right, Right. To kind of bring into the company. I think when you have a product that's replenishable, you don't necessarily have to keep finding new customers. You can work on nurturing the customer base that you already have. And so for me personally, that was more intriguing than constantly having to go and look for more customers and more customers and more customers. So, yeah, that definitely played a role in it. And then in terms of, like, finding the products, I think it's. It's not just one thing. Yes, these are items that I love to use as a woman, and I. I couldn't find anything else like it on the market. And maybe I'm just a clean freak, but I do not want to sit on a public toilet seat. And a lot of these places do offer toilet seat covers, but there's no cover on them. So when someone's using the restroom and, like, particles are going in the air, some of them are probably going on that toilet seat cover, which is to think about. You could not pay me to touch one of those. So that was some inspiration. And honestly, my daughter. My daughter's name is Roman R O M A N. And she's named after, like, the brand is kind of named after her. Rome play on her name. So when I became a mom, I think that was my main inspiration because I remember before I was pregnant, and you have. You have three kids and you're married, so you probably already know this, but I remember hearing women being like, I didn't even have time to shower. And I believed them 100%. But I was like, man, like what do you mean you didn't have time to shower? Like what? And then I had my daughter Roman and I didn't have time to shower and I was like, what the heck? And so again like I would look at some of these videos on socials with like these massive skincare routines or these elaborate self care nights. I was like, I don't have time to even brush my hair. And I was like, but I do use the bathroom. And I was like, these would be so nice to have just to kind of elevate that experience as a busy mom, a busy business woman. Like whether you're like a C level woman or man in corporate or you're a stay at home mom, which is super important in a 247 job, everyone deserves to have a little bit of self care throughout their day. And so that was another kind of piece of building this brand.
- [28:12]
B
I love this. There's so many takeaways in here for, for new founders, but also just like people in the, you know, running their companies and building their companies that are listening to this today. But one thing that just like spilling out of you is like customer obsession. Like you're extremely obsessed with like your audience, your customers, products that you're delivering, the solutions that you're bringing. And I could feel your passion come out. Coming out.
- [28:34]
A
Oh yeah. I'm so passionate about it. It's like I, it's so funny because it's like who's passionate about toilet seat covers? Me.
- [28:41]
B
That's what it takes. And I think that's, that's the one of the takeaways I want to kind of like drill down on finish up is like this is what it takes to like build a, build a successful brand, a successful business. It is, it takes this like obsessive like that. Right. What you said is like who's passionate about who they see covers like that's what it takes, the obsession. And I want someone that's considering starting a brand or maybe they're in their founding story right now to take that away. It's like get obsessed with what you are doing. Whatever it takes if it's starting a new product. Exactly.
- [29:16]
A
Like I didn't care if people thought I was weird for toilets. It covers, it's what I love. It's what I'm passionate about. It's like do you. And that passion is going to come through when you start talking about your product.
- [29:25]
B
Totally. And the cool thing about it is like today too, it's like, maybe you don't know yet, and that's okay. But the point is, like, lean into something. It could be, if it's a T shirt design company, lean into the specific brand. If it's like nurses, nurse moms or something like that, like, be obsessed with that. Her, that nurse, the mom that happens to be a nurse, or something like this.
- [29:48]
A
I actually wrote. Can I tell you this? So when I was trying to figure out who my customer base was, I actually developed. Developed or I. I wrote down and basically created my core customer base. I made a name for her. I kind of had her age. I wrote down what activities she would do. I wrote down where she was shopping. I mean, I created, like, this whole Persona of who I was creating this product for. And I would say for anyone who is trying to figure out what type of product that they want, you know, they know they want to be an entrepreneur. They know they want to be a founder. That could be a potentially very helpful exercise in terms of kind of narrowing down your niche and who you're selling for.
- [30:34]
B
I love that. Where. Where do you want to take. Where do you see Rome going? Is the goal to. I'm sure you've thought about this. You're a thoughtful person who thinks kind of ahead. Do you want to build this company to sell it one day? Do you want to build this company, just, like, operate this, like, an amazing lifestyle business? What's the outcome that would be ideal for you?
- [30:56]
A
I mean, I don't want to sell it. I would ideally love to continue to grow the customer base. Continue to. I'm looking to get into wholesale this year, so I'm. Retail is a whole different beast. I know that a lot of people strive to be in Target and strive to be in Walmart, and I think that's a wonderful goal. That's not necessarily my goal right now. I really want to focus on wholesale and nurturing the community I already have and then marketing efforts to find new individuals to purchase Rome. So that's kind of like my two, three year plan at the moment for Rome.
- [31:37]
B
Yeah, beautiful. Amazing. That's all I had. I know we're already at time, but Juliana, thank you for coming on and sharing this. Where can people, like, find you, connect with you? I mean, I know we just dropped, like, a bunch of stuff, but specifically find you, connect with you.
- [31:52]
A
So my personal handle for my content creation is just at Juliana. J U L I A N N A underscore Claire. And then for Roam, we are at Roam. Clean on socials as well. So that's, that's where you can find us on socials and then link in bio to go everywhere else.
- [32:11]
B
So amazing. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story.
- [32:14]
A
Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. It was, it was such a pleasure.
- [32:17]
B
I'm fired up, excited to see where R goes and yeah, have you on again.
- [32:22]
A
Thank you.
- [32:22]
B
Thanks, Johanna.
- [32:23]
A
See you. Bye.