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Built Online
Consistency Beats Motivation: Build A Strong Creator Business | ft. Philip Anders
00:49:50
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- [00:00]
A
Being challenged, being hurt, being sad, being unclear, but still showing up anyway. That's what strength is. It's like the storm is surrounding you and you're in the eye of the storm and it's. It's ugly and it's brutal and you're just like. You don't even know which way is north or south, but you still show up and you still stand there. That's what I think strength is. So if you're struggling with your business right now, just take the next step forward. That's it. Listen, you're doing the right thing by listening to this podcast. You're doing the right thing by being inside of a community like Phil's or other communities just show up. Things that tend to kind of take care of themselves. That's my thoughts. Curious what your thoughts are. Hey there. I'm Cody McGuffey. I'm a husband dad of three and I'm the founder of Ever Be, Ever Be, Ever Be Everbee, where we serve over a million creators across the globe, helping them grow thriving online businesses. I believe every single human is a creator and I believe every single creator should own a business. It isn't gives them the freedom to build the life that they dream of. Built online is where creators, entrepreneurs and leaders get real insights, real stories and the edge to build something that's actually lasts. This is where the next generation builders get built. Phil, what's up man?
- [01:13]
B
I'm good. How are you, Cody?
- [01:16]
A
I'm great man. Nice to see you. It's been a while since we probably chatted, but also since been a while since you've come on the podcast.
- [01:23]
B
That is true. I was thinking about this beforehand. I think I had you on my podcast earlier this year, but I was probably on yours over a year ago now. I think it's 20. 2024. Yeah.
- [01:34]
A
2024. That's insane. What's new with you, man? How's your. I'll ask you first. I know that you asked me before the recording, but I didn't answer. I refused to answer until we. We hit record. But how was your year? How's 2025 for you?
- [01:46]
B
Really good, really good. I'm very surprised, especially now the. The back end of it, how much progress, especially the printer demand has made like year over year progress. So sales are really up compared to YouTube views actually being down probably from last year. So it's interesting to see that. But generally the community that me and my friend Adam launched this year for Pod for Amazon Merch, that's been going really well. So overall, very, very happy with 2025. Excited for 2026 as well.
- [02:21]
A
That's a score community and it's called, by the way. Sorry, I'm gonna plug it right here just because I know that I'm in it also. Merch. Merch. Mastermind. Is that the one you're talking about?
- [02:31]
B
Yeah, exactly. That's what we launched in. I believe it was April this year. And yeah, it's. It's going strong, seeing a lot of people getting results and. And their sales growing as well. Especially now, lots of people sharing wins, which is very, very rewarding as well. So it's like the work that me and Adam and all the members are putting in throughout the years is really paying off.
- [02:55]
A
Yeah, the engagement in that. In your group is awesome. And I'm in there and I poke around and I just read the comments and stuff like that too. It's congrats on what you all have built.
- [03:03]
B
Thank you. Yes. It's hard to keep up with. To keep up with everything that's happening in there, for sure. A ton of engagement. But, yeah, communities are.
- [03:13]
A
Communities are kind of funny that way. Right where they seem easy, and in theory, they're easy. You collect a bunch of people, you put them in a single group, and you just hope that they, like, self manage, like somehow this engagement grows and all this stuff. But naturally, like, just like anything, you have to kind of stoke the fire and. And really kind of make sure it's going in the right direction because it's basically like building a little mini culture, you know, so you have to be pretty intentional about it if you. If you want to have a great community. It's. It's more challenging than I think most people think.
- [03:42]
B
Yeah, it is quite time consuming. It's. It's very rewarding as well, though. And you definitely feel that that more direct feedback and exchange with people helps them a lot more than just, you know, giving them a course and letting them kind of do it on their own. But it is. It is definitely. It takes a lot of energy as well, for sure.
- [04:02]
A
Yeah. How often are you in there having to intentionally work on the community? I mean, do you categorize that in hours or is it more like. I don't know, question?
- [04:16]
B
I don't know. I don't really count it, but I'm. I'm pretty much in there every day reading through conversations and comments and seeing if I can add something to it. And then we do have schedules of, like, regularly sharing value at least once a week, sometimes every couple of days. It just depends what the current kind of schedule is on plan.
- [04:36]
A
I'm on there right now. And you have an Etsy Shop review coming up. Q and A with Cassie coming up in a few days. Right. So that's. I know. By the way, by the time this publishes, this will be long gone. Cassie will have already been done. But you can go in there and check the recording. I'm sure that Phil has the. Has a recording in there.
- [04:52]
B
Yeah. You like to do everything very in advance, don't you? This will probably come out in three. Three months from now.
- [04:56]
A
Three or four months. Sometimes I like to get them out faster, but just naturally we record a lot, you know, and so we have a lot in the pipe. And so I do like to do everything in advance as much as possible. If you could build systems. If we've built. If we. If we can, we try to build a system around the thing that we. We like doing. And then. So, for example, I'll. I'll record all my. I batch record all my podcasts all one day a month. So it's just like a huge day of just recording six. Six episodes. Right. So it's six hours of recording, essentially, but then you have six months, I'm sorry, six weeks worth of content there. Um, also, it helps me so much and stay in the rhythm of things because now I'm already in podcast mode. I'm in interview mode, I'm in thinking mode, I'm in, like, brainstorming, you know, inspirational mode, versus when I'm in Everbee mode, meaning, like I'm, you know, being CEO of Everbee. It's like you're problem solving, you're firefighting, you're like, trying to figure out how to, you know, fill gaps with communication and like, it's different types of modes. So I like to kind of have that flow.
- [05:59]
B
Yeah, be in the zone. Be in the zone. I. I can relate to that. And I think it's also something important to consider for people that haven't considered it yet. If you often, I don't know, maybe you've got your phone in your table with notifications on and you have your emails open and you're trying to focus on creating a new T shirt, you're probably going to lose that focus multiple times throughout, even just 10 minutes with various other tasks or distractions. And I think sometimes you sit down for an hour or two and focus just on one thing, whether it's doing research for the shirt or the actual design for the shirt. It makes a huge difference in the. In the quality and the amount of work that you can get in that. And sometimes you get your better ideas, like at the end of the hour, not necessarily in the first 10 minutes.
- [06:49]
A
So I think that's a, That's a secret. Like, it's. It's not a secret because it's like published everywhere, right? In every book and everything like that Power focus. But it is like a thing that people overlook the simplicity of it. I think it's almost a little bit too simple for people to give a lot of power to. Like, batch working is massive. Like when you're creating a bunch of designs for your print on demand shop or your business, or you're answering emails, customer support tickets, like you've already. Your mind doesn't have to work so hard because what you're saying is, I'm agreeing with is the switching cost from one task to another. It's expensive. You know, you have to like, re. Almost like restart up another part of your engine and every single time. And so if you do that multiple times throughout the day, you end up kind of having like a. Kind of a shitty working machine.
- [07:40]
B
Yeah. Like, I like how you've taken it to the max there and systemized it. Doing literally six podcasts in one day. That's.
- [07:47]
A
It's a little bit much sometimes. But yeah, thank you for that. It's a little bit much. I get burned out at the end of the day. But all good things, like blessings for sure. But it's more like we could probably even get better at. But yeah, all the prep work, all that stuff happens in the front end. Research deep on. On each. Each specific guest is all done on the front end. So that way there's. It's like a, A good quality conversation too, so we don't lose the quality.
- [08:11]
B
Is.
- [08:12]
A
Is kind of the idea. I got this idea from another podcaster. I forget who it was. And he would just, he would do like 20 interviews in one day. They were short episodes, they were like 15 minute episodes. But he would. And he, he said this and it like unlocked it for me. I'm like, ah, God, that's how you do something like that. You know, that's how you sound so good in every episode because you're. You're in the flow state, you know?
- [08:37]
B
Ooh, for sure. Yeah, I've noticed that with my podcast as well. When I'm even, Even if I just do one episode a day, it's Sometimes the first 10, 15 minutes are kind of rough and then you get into that flow. But yeah, if you were Doing three, four like that every day, they'd probably be way better and smoother. And it, it goes for everything, right? It's not just podcasts.
- [08:58]
A
You go to the gym, right? I mean you're, you're. Most people can't see, but when I saw Philip in person, I was like, I think that's one of the first things I said. I'm like, damn, dude, you just hit the gym or what? Because you're in great shape and. But yeah, I, but it's like, it's like you're, you're working out, right? For example, if anyone goes to the gym here, listening to this, it's like you go to the gym and you're like, I'm gonna go do triceps and I'm gonna do biceps, I'm gonna do a set of, of chest, I'm gonna do a set of back. I'm gonna do a set of like calves in my legs and hamstrings. It's like you gotta work out in your body, you know, but one specific muscle group on your body is not really gonna grow from that session. It's you guys, you're gonna get a little sore, you're gonna tear up some muscles, but you're not really gonna have results. Versus I'm gonna go in there and I'm gonna work my chest. Like your chest is going to improve because you're gonna do five set, five sets on one muscle. Muscle group instead of one on each muscle group. Is that good?
- [09:57]
B
Rel? How did you know my workout routine? No, that I sometimes literally just do back on Monday and it might not be the longest session. Like I could be in the gym one and a half hours and do two or three muscle groups, but I'd rather do half an hour, 40 minutes. Just kind of working one muscle and focusing on that and then have a rest aid, do the next muscle after that. Like focus on, on maximum two. Two muscles per session. So I agree.
- [10:27]
A
I, yeah, totally. I mean just like anything and take that to life and curious, like, how does fitness. When did you started getting into. Into fitness and health and then how has that kind of rolled over into your business, your business career?
- [10:42]
B
So I, I got into fitness. I mean, it depends how you describe it. I think the gym part of fitness, I got into it as a 15 year old maybe and did a few years then going to, to the gym after school with friends, then had a bit of a break for a few years where I didn't really go fell off and I came back to it in 2021, 2022, around that time. So be doing it for a few years again now and really enjoying it. And how's it, how's it affected business? I think one important lesson that it's definitely taught me, that I think I've mentioned on my channel a couple times, it's this progressive overload. Because the way you grow your muscle is you work it out to the point where it fails and then the muscle knows it needs to get stronger in order to not fail. Right? So your muscle grows until the current weight that you were using doesn't feel heavy anymore. And then you slightly add weight and it's just, it's this continuous flow of just continuously adding, making things a little bit harder. And the key there being you're always working to the point of failure. And I think a lot of people want to avoid failure and they're scared of it and they see it as something negative when actually, especially in the world of business, it's a good thing because you need to fail to grow stronger. Just like in the gym, your whole goal is working out to the point of failure so your muscle knows it needs to get stronger.
- [12:17]
A
I love that. How's that helped you in business? You think like, like particularly for you, is it something to, where you've just been able to apply those principles to your, your, you know, your online businesses and, and because of like this discipline that you've had in the gym, it somehow gives you an edge in the business world, or do you not think about it that way?
- [12:40]
B
I think it's, it's kind of a way you look at things or frame them in your own mind. Like, I don't really see in communities or generally like speaking to a lot of people, seeing, a lot of people say, I do see a ton of negativity, not just in, like our community, but just in general business printed demand. There's always people that see things really negatively, are focused on the negative, but I don't really see that way. It's like if, if something that I do fails, I just need to do something differently or I've done something wrong. I think it's constantly trying to, to learn from your mistakes and trying to improve on them and do things better the next time. Better the next time. Like, what, what did I do half a year ago that didn't work? What could I have done better? That constant thinking of like, this is a good thing, that this failed because then I can do better next time. Rather than complaining about something that Amazon's done or Etsy's changed that's affected my business. It's like that doesn't bother me. It's more focusing on what I've done wrong, what can I do better in future?
- [13:48]
A
I like that. Do you feel like I'm curious and I'm just hammering you with these questions about fitness? Because somehow I think it is, it is all interconnected. There's like been people that have said there's a correlation, a pretty high correlation from people that go to the gym or work out or exercise or take care of themselves physically and just success, just overall with, with whatever success they're trying to do. But let's just call it business success for now. In your communities and in your network of people, do you find that when people are in better shape or they take care of themselves physically, there's a higher probability of them being successful or they already are successful in your experience?
- [14:31]
B
That's a good question. It's not something that I really think about or track much, but I, I get where you're coming from because it is like if, if you're into fitness or if you are a fit person, that generally means that you have some, some kind of discipline. Right? You can't really get really fair in shape without that. You can't really buy it. You can't just pay a thousand dollars and then you fit. You have to continually repeat something, be very repetitive, get to that point of failure, like I said. So it's, it's kind of training a lot of the skills that you need in business anyway. And it, I guess it makes success more likely or it makes you more prone to it. I don't think it guarantees it. I'm sure there's lots of people that go to the gym all the time, but they're, they don't have a successful business or vice versa. So from my personal experience, like, I can't say that.
- [15:25]
A
Yes, that's a good answer though. It makes total sense. I would agree with that. I would, I would probably go for a little bit further and say usually people that are taking, they don't have to be like, have a six pack and be ripped. Um, but as long as they're on the journey, that's the key. Like, as long as they're on the journey of taking care of themselves and having some sort of like disciplined habits, they tend to be more successful in business too. It translates. I don't think it's like one to one, but it definitely translates because of those habits that you build. Because a lot of times fitness and working out and stuff. Um, most of the time you don't want to work out. You know, like, you just don't want to be in the gym. There's times where you're just, like, so excited. I'm like, I'm so excited for that run, or I'm so excited to, like, go on that walk. I'm so excited to, like, hit the gym.
- [16:11]
B
But.
- [16:12]
A
But the reality is that's like 5% of the time. And so. And I think that's how it is in business, too. In my experience is, like, there's a lot of times where I just don't really want to do what I have to do in the business.
- [16:27]
B
Right.
- [16:27]
A
Whether it's firing somebody, maybe it's interviewing somebody. Maybe it's, like, making a hard decision. You know, it's kind of ugly and. Or maybe it's just having a conversation that's. That's challenging, but you do it anyway. Is the key. Just like, you'd go to the gym anyway, even though you're tired or you.
- [16:45]
B
Don'T feel like it, you're always fixing problems and, like, doing the things that nobody else can do. Right? You kind of get the. The. The bad end of all the workload is, like, what. That's what you're solving as the person leading it, right? The. That no one else can do or wants to do. So, yeah, I get that. And I think there's actually also another good benefit to the gym. For me, personally, what I found is I really like going there for the fact that it gives me a. A break from screens and just being able to think. You're just in a room. I typically work out on my own. I put my phone away, and then it's just working out and sitting, waiting between sets and just thinking. Because I think this is also an important practice that more and more people lack is just not giving themselves just half an hour, just sitting, doing nothing, essentially, which is what you do in between your sets and just strategizing in your head or thinking of reflecting about what you've done in the day, what you still need to do. Because you're always. If you're always just in the element, you're always just in front of the screens doing stuff, you're going to naturally miss stuff, miss things, or not really get the best ideas potentially that you could have gotten if you just gave yourself a break to kind of calm down and relax.
- [18:15]
A
I love that. I. I do. I do agree with this. Do you feel like. And I'm going to kind of switch gears a little Bit and I guess so maybe switching gears completely. 2025 is probably, by the time you're listening to this, it's already passed and we're already probably deep in January, maybe February. How do you think about your goals for 2026? Speaking of, could be fitness, it could be business. What, what kind of things are going through your head right now as an online business owner, an entrepreneur, full time entrepreneur?
- [18:51]
B
That's a good question. So to me there's always this question is always kind of split into, into two parts. It's. I reflect on what have I done this past year that's worked really well for me and how can I do more of that in the following year? Now in 2026, because you don't want to stop doing what's working. Right. But then also where is like a gap of opportunity or something new that I should be trying or something new that I should be improving? Working on testing. These are kind of two, two areas that I'm personally thinking about. And yeah, I think it's, it's kind of working out for both of those categories. What are the systems that I need to put in place or improve? If I already have systems to increase the progress? So things that are already working, could I improve something there to make it easier, to make it faster, to make it simpler, to make it cheaper? Whatever it is and the things I want to try out, what needs to be put in place? Do I need to hire someone new? Do I need to outsource something? A different task? Do I need, do I need to test something entirely? Do I need to get new tools? It's, it's like those, those are kind of the things that.
- [20:12]
A
Interesting. That's really interesting. I, I follow a really similar thing for me. I use the time for, to reflect for sure. Mostly I, I first start with like reflecting on what were my goals. Like, I don't mean to like what, what do we achieve? Yes, that's, that's definitely part of it. But like what, what, what was the aim for the year? What were the, what was the aim? And then for the next year, do I want the aim to be the same thing?
- [20:39]
B
Okay, I like that.
- [20:40]
A
Did the aim change? Because if it, if it did change, if the aim changes, like my goals change but I keep on pressing on the same stuff. I'm going to keep on getting the same results but the aim changed. So I'm going to be like dissatisfied by the end of 2026. And so I first have to like align myself fully of like what are the rocks That I want to make sure I. I nail in 20, 26. And then I basically start from zero. Again, like, curious what your feedback on this. For me, I just say, okay, well, if I'm trying to achieve this, this, this, but what needs to be true for that to be true? And then I just start listing, like, okay, well, I need this many, you know, users. I need this many YouTube views, this many, yada, you know, all this stuff, this many sales. And that's kind of the frame of thinking that I take it, take it to. Do you do something similar to that?
- [21:33]
B
No, I don't actually. But I do like the approach. Because you're trying to. First of all, if I understand it correctly, you're trying to see, do I need to redefine my goal? Has it changed? And then it's a case of breaking the goal down of like, moving the pieces. Like, how could I achieve this goal? Like, what sorts of numbers do I need to reach? Can I, like, play around with them, get them from different areas and how to get there by the end of the year? No, that makes sense. And I think it's important because maybe last year your goal was to. I don't know if we speak in Amazon merch terms. It's like, maybe your goal was to fill out your slots and upload as many designs as you can, but then now for the next year, you figure out, okay, I can't upload anymore. What should be my target now? Is it improving the existing catalog? Is it focusing on ads instead? I think the folks can really shift. Is it maybe trying to minimize the work effort altogether and focus more on family and working out or something? Maybe that's slack for you throughout the year. Right. It could be other personal things. So I think that is really important. I think you can easily get lost, especially in our, like, business, printed a man world. It's like you can easily get lost of, I need to make more sales, I need to make more money. That's like your only focus and you don't really reflect on what you actually want. So I like the step zero of kind of redefining.
- [22:56]
A
Yeah. Do you have. How do you make sure that you have. How do you make sure you're going in the right direction? Right. For. For a lot of people, they're thinking about 20, 26 and, and for future, future years, also of planning. How do they know what goals to set? How do you. How does Phil know what, how to define his goal? Like, how do you. How do you think about that?
- [23:22]
B
I'm not, I'M not sure if I'm the right person to ask there. I think if you really struggling to. To define your goal and you don't already kind of have a clear picture on it, what I would try is journaling. So I've, I've found this useful. I haven't done it recently, but I found this useful when I've been like, really locked in my mind in terms of what to do or what do I want is just write down almost like word vomit, everything that you're thinking about this topic onto a page until there's nothing else to really put down. And it doesn't matter if it looks good or if it makes sense because no one else is going to read it. It's just for you to process. I like process thought.
- [24:09]
A
I like how when I asked you that, you were like, I don't think. I'm not sure if I'm the right person to ask when in reality, like you gave a perfect. Such a great answer. And also you are the exact person to ask from my perspective, you achieved so much. I know you. I'm sure you want to achieve way more and you feel like you haven't. But I'm telling you that most people listening to this probably want the freedom, the time freedom, location freedom and, and the financial freedom that you have as far as like passive income, you guys, you, you have semi, you know, whatever passive income means. But point is you, you've created an online business for yourself and growing that gives you this like very flexible life and your framework of thinking about defining your goals of what you actually want. Your perspective is very interesting, I think, for, for most people. Um, so I do. I wanted to just kind of like mention that before going back into your journaling thing. Cause I do agree with that, that framework too.
- [25:06]
B
Okay, that's good to hear. Yeah. I was just thinking then, like, why, why did I say I'm not the right person for it? I think because I also like, like most people still sometimes wonder, like, what is it? I actually want that. And it also changes with time. Right? So it. You sometimes doubt yourself, like, am I still doing the right thing? Should I maybe focus more on that? Or there's things that you used to do a few years ago that you've now stopped doing and it's, it happens naturally to anyone. So that's being human, I think.
- [25:37]
A
I think that's just being a human. Right? Like we, our wants change all the time. We. Our. Our minds wander. I think it's a good thing though. I think the reason why, like, the reason why we even want things and we achieve things is because our mind wandered enough to maybe be curious about wanting that thing, you know, so if our minds didn't wander, like, we probably wouldn't even have the things we have today. So I think that's, that's a good thing. But I do think about channeling it is, is a superpower for sure. And it's not something that you're gifted with talent, like just by God's gift. It's something that you hone in as, like, as a skill, you know, and one of the strategies is, hey, what do you want? And like, as you mentioned, like, if you don't know how to answer that question, get the journal out and just start writing down whatever comes to your mind. Do I want a Lamborghini? I don't know. Do I want a horse? I don't know. Do I want a donkey? I don't know. Like, you just put it down, anything that comes to your mind and then you start to. Quickly your mind just goes to work. I'm like, no, I don't, I don't want that. I don't want. Oh, I want. I won't spend more time with my kids. Got it. You know, that's. And it keeps showing up every time you do this exercise. Like this. And the ones that hold up or the ones that keep showing up, this is typically the ones that you actually do want.
- [26:49]
B
It's almost like doing that like pros and cons list, but you're writing it out, you're thinking out the entire list to kind of more deeply actually make the decision. And I don't, like, I don't think you need to do this for everything. It's just more difficult things or more life changing decisions perhaps. Like I remembered it this a few years back about whether I should get a mortgage or not. Like, do I actually want a house or is it just the, the norm that you should get house? Like, what do I actually want? And that was really helpful. I haven't done it for a while, like the journaling thing.
- [27:22]
A
But what'd you decide on that, by the way?
- [27:25]
B
I decided no. I said I don't want a house for multiple reasons. Like, obviously there is reasons why I might want it, but there was more reasons that I, I tend to try and optimize for freedom, right? Not just the, the time freedom, but also the location freedom. And I think a house ties you to a location. It ties you to a bank. And on top of that, I also don't like diy. I know if you do get a house, you probably have to do some diy. So yeah, those are some of the thoughts back then.
- [27:57]
A
But that's a tricky one for sure. For sure. It's always a fun topic because I've gone back and forth on that one over the, over my life and I've owned multiple houses through, you know, multi, bought and sold, moved and stuff. And then we've also rented multiple times too and, and then if we've, we've had zero kids, you know, and married and then we've had kids, you know, and you know, so it's like these wants and needs change as your family dynamics change too. And some things that you overly optimize for, you really care about. When I was at a certain, certain time I, I care a little less about that and I'm willing to make some of those trade offs. For example now is I would we own a house now. And I, I answered the way that you answered before kids and that was the right answer then. It was the right answer because I was optimizing for like location freedom is very important and then all of a sudden you have kids and you're like okay, well location freedom is very important. But also like having a home to build a nest with our kids is also important now. And what is that? You know, you could do that renting for sure. But something about owning is somehow it's emotional thing and it's, it's weird. But that's an interesting thing. I'm sure. I'm curious about like whether the people listening to this, how their, their perspective is on it. Like do they own or do they not? So because that's kind of been the trend to like rent versus own.
- [29:26]
B
That's it. Okay. Is it here in the uk it's like definitely a huge status thing. Status thing. Like you need to get a mortgage. Mortgage. That's kind of like the, the normal progression like go to school, go to uni, get a mortgage. But that's probably true by the way.
- [29:39]
A
I'm thinking probably like it's the newer, newer trend, but I don't think it's like the macro trend.
- [29:44]
B
Yeah, yeah. Global thing. But I think this is a good example as well of like priorities changing and your goals changing and just how you see things. Because I don't have kids and that's probably why I'm in that frame of mind. Would probably be different if I had. And also I think it also what makes a difference there is do you need a mortgage? Like do you need to do it through a bank where you have to pay interest for 30 years or not. Like, I'm sure that was also part of the decision for you. If it's easier to buy a house, of course, then more people would do it, but it is becoming more and more difficult. Something that made me realize also that I don't want to get a mortgage or house right now at least is just realizing that people who bought a house in like 1980, it was twice of their annual income. For a lot of them, that was like the average house price. Whereas now, at least in the UK, the average house price. House price is 10 times the annual income.
- [30:44]
A
Yeah, it's different and yeah, it's just.
- [30:47]
B
Outdated advice in that sense. If all Those people from 1980s tell you, hey, you should get a house, when reality was different, I, I tend to fall.
- [30:55]
A
Even though I own a house. And I plan on owning more houses and stuff like this, of course, but I don't plan on owning them for the same reason that most people would probably told me when I was younger. People tend to say, when you're younger, hey, the house is one of the greatest investments you can make. Right. That's the thing that we've been sold for, for so many years, and it's just not true anymore. I'm not sure if it was true, but it's certainly not true anymore. Like, owning houses is very expensive. Like H Vacs go out. It's a liability. I know it's an asset, but it's actually a liability. And it's, it's, it ties you up for all the reasons that you said, you know, it's really not an investment in my. So when, anytime that we make a personal decision like that, we definitely, we look at it through a financial lens, but it's usually like fourth on the list because usually it never makes financial sense to own a house. For us, at least where we're at, you're gonna pay a higher mortgage, you know, payment than your rent payment. It's. It's an emotional decision. Almost like buying a car. It's like buying a car is never a good financial decision.
- [32:05]
B
Depends what the car is. But yeah, yeah, I know. In very, very small position.
- [32:09]
A
99.999%. Yeah.
- [32:12]
B
So what do you focus on more than. If financial is like number four on the list, what are, like, your key focuses with those kind of decisions?
- [32:19]
A
It's a good question. Probably emotional peace. Emotional peace. If this, like, contributes to my emotional freedom, my, my emotional, like, peace of like, I own this house, landlord can never kick me out. Ideally, you don't have a mortgage, and so you, you set yourself up like this and you have a lot of emotional peace. That's super underrated. And it's very hard to quantify. Very hard to quantify. Like, I have some real estate friends that are like, oh, I'll never own a house. Like, you own your house. Oh, you bought it. Like, you paid cash. Like, why would you do that? That's so, that's so financially dumb. And I'm like, dude, it's not, this is not a financial decision here. Like, I know financially it doesn't make sense. Like, you can make. Take your money elsewhere, your cash elsewhere, but the emotional piece that it gives you, you can make bigger bets in your business when you're not tied down emotionally to your personal stuff.
- [33:17]
B
Yeah, that's a good point.
- [33:19]
A
Like, you can take a, you could take a swing that you wouldn't normally take. Most people can't take swings because in their business because they're afraid of their mortgage payment being paid or not.
- [33:29]
B
Yeah, it gives you, it gives you a lot of personal freedom as well. Right. Owning a house that you otherwise wouldn't have.
- [33:37]
A
It does. I want to like, couple that too, because I know most people are not in a position yet listening to this, that they can, you know, pay off their house or pay off their mortgage and things like this, but doesn't have to be that way. Like Phil, for example, you, it gives you emotional peace to not have a, A big mortgage over your, over your hanging over your head. So you can take a swing. You could take a swing on your, on your business and be wrong three times and you don't have to like face a foreclosure, you know, so it allows you to be a little bit more aggressive probably in your business.
- [34:09]
B
Yeah. And it also, also helps knowing that if something goes wrong in the house, I, I can call a landlord and they'll sort it out. You know, I don't have to worry about that with my own. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, it's also gives me more time and energy to focus on the, on the business again. So. Yeah, it comes back to that. So it's all perspective wise. It's different, I think, on the. Depends on your situation.
- [34:33]
A
I agree.
- [34:33]
B
But yeah, going back to your, to our original question, actually, because you didn't answer it yet and you didn't answer it before the call either. So I, I asked you if you were happy with your 20, 25.
- [34:47]
A
Oh, man, that's a tough question. Normally it's not. I am. The answer is yes. I'm. I'm happy with 2025, generally speaking. I try to count my blessings. Right. I have three beautiful kids. My wife and I are in love and strong. Most of my family's healthy. I think we tried to. There. There's one really tough thing that happened this year. We lost my mother in law.
- [35:18]
B
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah.
- [35:19]
A
Thank you. And I was actually, at the time of recording was like three weeks ago. So it's still. That one's like the cloud overhanging the 2025, you know, and that one was ugly. It was just a really hard year. I just, it was, it was, it was cancer and it was like a year and a half of just kind of like pain and grieving. It was kind of a weird, weird thing. And so that's kind of like, that's what 2025 looked like from that perspective. If you wipe that out of my mind for a minute and categorize that and like, separate that, it was a beautiful 2025.
- [35:58]
B
But it does take up a lot of, like, emotional space and energy and time. Yeah. Yeah. So it's. It's tough to see things positively even if, like, business is going well, but families and health is first. Right. I can, I can see that.
- [36:13]
A
It was a year of, for me, it was a year of questioning purpose more than normal, the purpose of things, purpose of me, purpose of, like, why we're doing all this, why business, like, why even survive, why even like live. Right. And I'm not saying like that from like a dark perspective, but, you know, when you have people in your life that pass, that you care deeply, deeply about it, it shakes you up, you know, and it's. It'd be weird if it didn't probably. It'd be weird if it didn't shake you up. But. So it's been kind of a year of a little bit of year of that also a year of resilience. You know, if I flip it around, a year of resilience. My wife and I and the kids and, and her sisters, my wife's sisters. And like, everybody is gonna be stronger because of all this pain and grieving and mourning, but it's a year of stretching and pain, I would say. But yeah. Anyway, not to take it to a kind of a negative or, you know, level, but that's kind of what 25 looked like for us. And it wasn't. Wasn't the best, but that's okay.
- [37:14]
B
Yeah, No, I, I understand your Your reaction now, the initial reaction, but I mean, you're still. You're showing up three weeks later and you're doing a six podcast day. So that does show your persistence and resilience, which is really good. Really good.
- [37:32]
A
Thanks for that, Phil. I appreciate that. I mean that. You know, the thing that I've been trying to remember, and we've been praying about it a lot in our family, is because when you have. And if anybody's listening to this, going through any hardship, it doesn't have to be somebody passing, but maybe it's something with your business or like you. You lost clarity of what you're trying to do. Or maybe you've never even found clarity yet of what you're trying to do in your life. That's super challenging, and it can get really dark very quickly. And so what I try to tell myself, and I would encourage you to think of it this way, is the idea is that we want to be strong, right? We want to be strong for our family members. You likely, you. You're listening to this because you have somebody relying on you. You. You have probably, maybe it's a friend, maybe it's your mom, your parents, if you don't have kids, maybe if. Maybe you do have a wife or a husband, maybe you have kids and you need to be strong for them. And strength doesn't always look the way that the movies show or the way that you think it should look in your head. Meaning. For me, strength is a. To me, I grew up thinking that strength equals unfazed, unhurt, unemotional. And so. And I think that was flawed, very flawed. I think strength is actually the opposite. It's probably even. It's. It's being phased, being challenged, being hurt, being sad, being unclear, but still showing up anyway. That's what strength is. It's like the storm is. Is surrounding you, and you're in the eye of the storm, and it's. It's ugly and it's brutal, and you're just like. You don't even know which way's north or south, but you still show up and you still stand there. That's what I think strength is. So if you're struggling with your business right now, just take the next step forward. That's it. Listen, you're doing the right thing by listening to this podcast. You're doing the right thing by being inside of a community like Phil's or other communities just show up. Things that tend to kind of take care of themselves. That's my thoughts. Curious what your Thoughts are.
- [39:53]
B
Yeah, I love that message. That. That's perfect. Because I think it is very easy, I think, especially as guys, to kind of just bottle all the negativity up and. And the emotions and just ignore it. And I think it. It could easily eat you up from. From the inside. Right. It doesn't go away. You just kind of. Yeah, you're just kind of suppressing it. So. No, I love that message. I think being human in the sense of that, yes, you are struggling, you are experiencing these emotions, but still at the same time, being there for your family and supporting them or showing up to work like you are and not letting them take over your life, but still being able to express them or show them or be open with them, that's really good. And yeah, I. I think whether you're in this situation now or not, this is good to. Good to know, think about this or talk about this, because it does happen. Like, I. I had a more emotionally challenging year last year, and it can suck the energy of you. Like, where you just. You get up in the morning or you wake up in the morning and you. You feel like not doing anything. Like, the. The work that you're usually excited about isn't exciting because it's overshadowed by something else interesting. And that. That. That can be really tough because if you typically get energy and excitement out of your work and then that feeling goes away, it's like, well, how do I do this now? Like, now it's not fun anymore, and.
- [41:33]
A
Now you feel like. It's like you don't. You don't. You don't see that purpose anymore. So what's the point of doing anything then?
- [41:37]
B
Yeah, and it's. I mean, that is. Or it was, for me, a progress that. That can take its time. Right. It's not something that you can just kind of snap out of or watch a motivational video, and then everything's back to normal. It can take its time. But, yeah, I like. I like your message of that. Being okay and human and you can still be strong and also show that.
- [42:04]
A
I hope it's helpful for people, because business and entrepreneurship is like a rough road, right? It's. It's a beautiful road, but beautiful doesn't mean smooth and clean and easy and clear. Uh, and so if. Very likely, if you're listening to this, you are running up on a roadblock. Every single person, as a business owner, is running up on some sort of challenge. Um, and there's times where you want to give up on lots of different things. Um, but again, just do the next right thing and just show up no matter what is. Is the takeaway today. And you will have a great 20, 25 if you just keep on doing that, keep repeating that, just keep showing up and. Yeah, I mean, we could probably leave it there, but it's.
- [42:55]
B
One. One lesson. One, one thing I'd like to add here, one, one lesson that's helped me out a lot that I read in a book a few years ago. I think it was. I think it was the seven habits of Highly Effective People. Was this kind of. This idea that emotions need to be subordinated to action or emotions follow action, not the other way around. Because if you. And this is what really helped me when I was struggling is if you picture yourself laying in bed miserable, you're sad, you don't want to do anything, you don't want to work, you don't want to do whatever, house chores, doesn't really matter. I think it's easy to, in that situation, to fall into the frame of mind of I don't feel like it right now, so I'll just wait until I feel better and then I'll do it. That's kind of the natural, like very low.
- [43:53]
A
Very, very natural.
- [43:55]
B
Yeah. Yeah. That's like the. The human response would be you wait until you feel better because then it's less resistance, then you do it. But if you think about emotion following action or action coming first, it. It's typically you. You do the action that you don't want to do, and then afterwards you feel better. So if you always subordinate emotions to action, I hope, I hope I got this right in my head. But if you always subordinate emotions to actions, then you're going to do better because it's the action that'll make you feel better, not waiting for the emotion and then doing the action.
- [44:33]
A
Completely, completely. Agree. It's like, yeah, it's just. It's so, so true. And it's helpful. It's super helpful when you. When you're clear on your vision and what you're trying to accomplish. Because then fortunately, the emotion kind of dissipates and it kind of like the mission kind of pulls you forward. But the true challenge is when you're not clear or you've lost clarity and you're not sure what to do. And that's when you just need to get back to the basics, right? And just like, show up. If it's like, if it' about fitness, if it making your bed, like little things, like, get back to the little things, drink your big glass of Water. You know, cold showers are good if.
- [45:15]
B
You, if you really. If you're really feeling bad. Cold showers make you feel good.
- [45:20]
A
They do. Do something that's kind of hard and, and it doesn't have to be long. Do something that's hard. And there's actually. This is kind of getting proven by science even more. I'll butcher this. This is definitely not my, my thing, but there's a thing in our brain that they've kind of discovered and apparen only like past couple years. Studied YouTube it. It's. But. But it's called your AMC. Your AMC for short. Have you heard this before?
- [45:46]
B
No. Yeah.
- [45:47]
A
Gosh. I'm gonna look it up right now. AMC brain. It stands for. That's not it. It's not AMC Movie theaters. God, it'll take too long. But the point is, is this. This thing actually lights up when you do hard things. And apparently there's a study. You can YouTube this. There's been some studies on, like, the most effective people. High, higher performers, typically not just necessarily in sports, but just like in anything. And they tend to have a more active and more engaged larger AMC part of their brain. And. And this is linked to just doing things that they don't want to do. And so. And this is like basically your self. Your self. Your self discipline. It's like your. It's your resiliency muscle, essentially. And can I do hard things even though they're hard? It's like the answer is yes when that's more active. And so how to get this. The goal is to get this thing bigger and stronger. And how to get it bigger and stronger. You do things that you hate. Yeah, but. Yeah, but you have to hate it. That's. That's. Apparently that's. That's like the cold, cold showers. Like, nobody wants that.
- [47:03]
B
Yeah, I love that. No, it's. It's true. Because even if you. Even if you enjoy the way you feel after a cold shower, that first step of stepping into it, that's never going to feel great.
- [47:13]
A
It's always. If I didn't. I almost did not want to. I almost turned it to hot, like.
- [47:18]
B
Yeah.
- [47:19]
A
Yes. So funny.
- [47:21]
B
I'll say. You feel every time. No, I, I like that. I've heard that before. I just hadn't heard the acronym. But. Yeah, that is like a muscle. The muscle of doing things you don't, don't enjoy or don't want to do to get to your end goal. I think it's a great one to train.
- [47:37]
A
I was going to try to Find this. Okay. So it's called the interior my mid mid Singlet Cortex.
- [47:45]
B
Okay.
- [47:46]
A
Andrew Huberman does has been doing more content on this specifically. So you guys should YouTube that. I just typed in AMC brain discipline and it found up a whole bunch of stuff. So if that's helpful for anyone. But man, I, I know we're already at time. It's already been 47 minutes. For goodness sakes, Phil. Where can people find you, be more connected to you, maybe your community, all that good stuff.
- [48:11]
B
Main place to start is always YouTube. I've got. I. I reached a thousand videos this year on the channel.
- [48:18]
A
Congrats.
- [48:18]
B
So there's a ton of. Thank you. There's a. There's a ton of stuff out there that you can watch for free. I do a lot of videos also focusing on how to start POD for free, how to create designs for free, free tools, etc. So a ton of content out there to get you started and to grow your sales on. On variety of platforms, not just Amazon Merch. Even though that's my, my focus. And yeah, then the community that we touched on at the start is on, on school and it's called Merch Mastermind. And that's where we do more direct help, more direct exchange with. With our students. Weekly calls, weekly niche suggestions, prompts, AI training, all sorts of stuff. Very hands on.
- [49:06]
A
Yeah. So much value that you, that you produce, man. So congratulations to you and your team. Thank you. I'd love to do this again for sure. When's the next roundtable or how often are you guys still doing the roundtables?
- [49:20]
B
Probably I was thinking about this earlier. Probably in a week from now or end of next week or something if you want to join it.
- [49:26]
A
Yeah, that'd be fun.
- [49:27]
B
Be fun. Yeah.
- [49:28]
A
Yeah.
- [49:29]
B
All right. Thanks a lot for having me, Cody. Really, really enjoyed this conversation. I always go really deep when talking to you, which is. Which is fun. It's almost like a therapy session for me as well. Like thinking about these things, trying to get clarity. So. Yeah, love it.
- [49:43]
A
Same with me, man. Thank you, Phil. Appreciate it. Talk to you soon, man.