B (2:39)

I love that. I want to kind of take a step back and just kind of understand maybe a little bit about who dinner is for, when everyone kind of understand how you got started. And was it YouTube first or was it calligraphy first or was it like online business first or like what was a sequen of things in your like entrepreneurial career?

A (2:58)

Yeah, so six year, actually seven years ago, I was working in a very typical nine to five office job. And I always knew I wanted to like, my goal was to become a digital nomad and have my own business, but. And I researched a whole ton, like how to make money blogging and how to freelance online, but it just seems so complicated. And so what I decided to do was just learn calligraphy and start a calligraphy business because I thought, okay, it's like a physical skill, seems easier and then I can always make it online in the future or pivot. So in 2018, that's. Yeah, I started learning calligraphy and I started selling greeting cards and teaching calligraphy workshops. And then about a year later I quit my job.

B (3:48)

Wow, one year. So you researched. Research like, okay, I'm going to be. I want to be a digital nomad. And then you researched for a little bit and then you quit your job. How long was that time frame? Was it like two years, a year and a half?

A (4:00)

Or was this, Oh, I wanted to be a digital nomad when I was like 20 years old. And I, okay, I'm 31 now. But yeah, after I graduated from university when I was 23, it. I started working in my job for about a year and then, and then I started really thinking about, okay, let me maybe start a business now. So it was quite a while.

B (4:25)

It's such an interesting thing because digital nomad was. It's probably, it's. It's still a thing, right? I mean, I know it's. But is it as like popular as it was probably at that time or is it like the same?

A (4:35)

I think it's always been popular, but I think a lot more people are doing it because there's a lot more remote work. But I think at the time you could only become a digital nomad if you had a business or you were like, you know, a coder or something. And I was like, okay, I'm not going to learn coding, I should better start a business. And I was mainly thinking about starting a blog because I. There wasn't really a way to make money off social media, except YouTube. But I never really wanted to be a YouTuber actually.

B (5:07)

It's so interesting how it works. And this is why I kind of wanted to get to like the bottom of things, like how it started because when I was first got into entrepreneurship and I guess to E commerce, it was primarily around the digital nomad, like idea too. It was like, that's what drew me in of like, okay, I want to have like this. I want to be able to be wherever I want, whenever I want. You know, I want to like work for myself and like travel the world and, and do this stuff. I remember that. And I just didn't know if it was like still a thing because my goals have changed now since then, of course, and like all of our, all of our lives changed and stuff. But I was curious if that's still like being pushed because for, for that time it was like drop shipping was like the path to like digital nomadship.

A (5:52)

Okay. For me at least that was that. Like, was that.

B (5:57)

I'm 33, you're 31, so it's probably around the same time.

A (6:01)

Okay.

B (6:02)

I think. Um, okay, so going back to your story, not about digital nomad, when did you actually have the ability to actually quit your job? Because that's like a massive step. And so what, what was true for you at that moment? Meaning like, you obviously you had income coming in. Like, how did you make that decision? That's such a big one.

A (6:27)

Yeah. So I think at the time, so this was one year after learning calligraphy and I was making most of the calligraphy income was from teaching workshops. And that was about $1,000 a month in revenue, which is not an. Obviously it's not a full time income. But I thought, okay, maybe I'll just quit and see. And at the time I was like living at home. I didn't have big expenses or anything. So my plan was let me just quit and then try it out and then see how it is in one year. And if it's not going well, then I can always get a job. Yeah. And then, yeah, it's kind of interesting because six months after I quit my job covet happened. So then I couldn't teach the workshops anymore. But that's when I started to make everything online.

B (7:21)

Wow, that's really, really interesting. Okay. I feel like I've talked to somebody that did calligraphy also a while back.

A (7:30)

There's a lot of calligraphers on Etsy. Actually.

B (7:32)

That's probably. Maybe what? Maybe it was a customer that was also doing it. Interesting thing, because I've never once thought about calligraphy. Right. And so I see these like.

A (7:40)

Yeah, I feel like it's something people don't really think about.

B (7:42)

Totally not. And that's. That's what I love about this entrepreneurship game that we live in is like, there's so many niches, there's so many opportunities. And who. Who'd have thought, like, you could build, like, really great businesses based on, like, a niche like calligraphy? Right. I wouldn't have personally thought that. And so I love seeing stories like this. Okay, so you were doing workshops. At first you had to pivot because of COVID What did you end up doing to. How did you end up being successful still or, like, being at least sustaining your income?

A (8:15)

So I stopped teaching in person workshops, and I pivoted to online workshops.

B (8:22)

And.

A (8:22)

And the online workshops were mainly corporate team building workshops because I didn't. I just really hated selling individual tickets to the public. It was so much work. So I thought, you know, let me just work with companies. Because once you book it, you don't need to sell individual tickets. I just do the workshop and everybody shows up. So that was going.

B (8:47)

These were like virtual workshops, right? Like, you're.

A (8:49)

Yeah, like, on zoom.

B (8:50)

Okay.

A (8:51)

Yeah, on zoom. And then I also. That's when I started coaching calligraphers on how to start a business. So I became a business coach during.

B (9:03)

COVID So let me get this right. So you. At one point, you're like, I'm gonna. I wanna be a digital nomad. And you're like, okay, cool, I'm gonna go learn calligraphy. So you didn't even know calligraphy, like, before. So you actually learn this new skill.

A (9:16)

Yeah.

B (9:17)

And so now you're doing workshops for this new skill that you learn, which is so cool. And then you're teaching companies, like, company, like teams inside of companies to do this too. That is really interesting because for me, my own personality of, like, selling to companies B2B, like, it just seems like that's. So I would not want to do that. And so really, you chose that path? Because I would for sure.

A (9:40)

That's. Yeah, that's interesting. I guess mine is more of like, a fun activity kind of thing. And so when the company says yes, it's just really easy for me, and it's. I just do it. It's the same thing over and over again.

B (9:53)

Cool.

A (9:54)

And I. Yeah. It's not like I have to do a strategy meeting with the company and do this and figure out the blah, blah, blah.

B (10:01)

But still you had to get. You had to get in front of that company decision maker, whoever it was, and actually get them to say yes to booking. Booking a session, right?

A (10:10)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I didn't. I thought that was. It was still easier than selling like the individual tickets.

B (10:18)

How did you do that? Like, like, how did you, how did you do that at the time?

A (10:21)

Do you remember, for the companies?

B (10:23)

Yeah. Like, how did you reach out to the company? How did you find the companies, the right ones? How did you re. Reach out to them and get them to do that?

A (10:30)

Yeah. Oh, I tried a whole lot of things. First of all, I, I was already a bit connected to the business community in Vancouver because of my previous job and because I went to business school. So I already knew some companies. So I emailed them and I also just posted on social media. I also, on my website there was like a section for like a corporate team building workshop. So some companies found me through just Google. And I also tried cold emailing hundreds of companies, which didn't really work. The, the thing that worked the most was probably networking and just using my connections and social media.

B (11:14)

I love that. The reason why I think it's just such a cool thing, because I want people to take away from this and that's why I was drilling into it like so much is like, it's not like a normal thing to do. Everything that you just said, uh, and I. And you make it seem like it's very casual and it's like, oh, I just. All I did was like email them. They just like booked with me and I just like, whatever, did all these corporate meetings, sessions. But the reality is I, I wanted to, like, slow down just for a second. There was so much action that needed to be taken to make all that reality. I think that's just so cool. And I, I want a. An aspiring founder that's listening to this to, to see the level of thinking that you had in here. Like, you, what, what I hear is you learn this skill. You got great at this skill, obviously. And then you, you're like, okay, I'm gonna go and like host sessions or teach this skill, basically. And then you were like, I need to find a market for this. Like, who would want to buy this skill or buy this thing? And then you actually had to, I don't know, like, then you had to use your resources that you kind of already had a little bit through, like, you. So you started leveraging the resources that you had. And I want an aspiring founder to Listen to that and like. Cause this, this person listening to this is. They have resources too. You have your own assets and your own things that you can leverage and you have it already available. You don't need to go and create new things. You already have some sort of leverage available. You seem to like pay attention to it. So anyway, sorry to cut you off, but so what?

A (12:43)

No, no, I think that's a great point. Yeah, no worries.

B (12:46)

What did you do next? So what happened from that? So did you keep doing that until eventually it. You just didn't like it anymore or what happened?

A (12:55)

Let's see. So from then on, my main income source was coaching. And for that I mainly, it was mainly through Instagram and I started a small email list. I also had a blog on my Dynacalligraphy.com website. And so there were calligraphers who would find me through Google, through searching how to start a calligraphy business. And then they would get on my email list. And then 2020 is also the time when I started my YouTube channel. But I never wanted to be a big YouTube creator. I just, I made, I just basically repurposed my blog posts into YouTube videos for the, for SEO. And then to get people on my email list, then I could like funnel them into my coaching programs. That was the, the goal of YouTube.

B (13:50)

At the time when you were doing corporate sessions, there was probably something that sparked you being like, okay, I'm gonna coach personal people, like real, like just normal people. This thing, uh, what was the pool or what was the decision that kind of made you. What was the thing that kind of made you make that decision?

A (14:10)

Yeah, I think so. Before the lockdown happened, I was already thinking about coaching people. Cuz I was thinking about, okay, how can I transition this physical business to an online business? And even with teaching calligraphy workshops online, there was a lot of physical things I had to do because I would have to pack the worksheets and the pens and mail them to everybody in the company so they had the supplies. And if I'm traveling, I'm like, if I became a digital nomad, I. That would kind of be a hassle. So I was already thinking, okay, how can I make it 100 online? And so those two things kind of happened simultaneously, like the pivoting to the corporate workshops, but also starting up the.

B (15:00)

Coaching totally makes sense. Okay. It's what I'm hearing here is that like you were really set on digit being a digital, no matter at least having the option to be a full digital nomad. And that was really important. That was like a driving force for you. So like everything that you did was like, that was the goal, like to have the ability that time freedom, location freedom, financial freedom, probably to be a digital nomad. And that was why you've like were able to make these decisions seemingly easy. I know they weren't but seemingly easy.

A (15:29)

They were, they were, they were. It sounds easy when I talk about sure now but yeah, at the time like oh it was so difficult after I quit my job. Really stressful.

B (15:41)

How so? Tell us more.

A (15:43)

Yeah, I, well first of all I was working like 10 to 12 hours every single day because I felt like I had to prove it to myself and to my dad that I could make money with like my creative business. And yeah, so I, I think like after I quit my job and when covet happened it was just the income wasn't like I hadn't replaced my full time income.

B (16:11)

Like what were you doing by the way? What was your, what was your income? I'm sorry, what was your, what was your full time job?

A (16:16)

Oh, my full time job was, it was a, in a government office and I was, my position was called a business development associate.

B (16:26)

Cool. Got it. So good job. Probably very respectable within your family and probably friend group.

A (16:34)

Yeah. Stable like with the pension.

B (16:37)

Totally. And you are doing like obviously all of a sudden you're teaching calligraphy courses and like you're doing something like literally the opposite of like creative and entrepreneurial online, all that stuff.

A (16:49)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I wanted to point out just something that, that you mentioned before about how like I was learning the skill and then I all of a sudden was teaching the skill. So I think for a lot of people, they think they have to be an expert in something before they start talking about it or teaching people. And for me even now I'm not a very advanced calligrapher. Like my calligraphy skills are very basic in the calligraphy world. But because I was teaching beginners who were at zero, my level was already good enough for teaching beginners. So yeah, for anyone out there who's thinking of maybe sharing about their journey or teaching people or training people on something, I think if you are like a couple steps ahead of the people you're going to teach, that's already enough. You don't have to be the talk talk expert. And I think that also, that also was my thinking when I started making the Etsy videos because even now I'm not an Etsy expert and I don't work on my Etsy anymore. But people loved Hearing from, you know, somebody who wasn't making millions from etsy, I made 10 sales in my first month. And then I shared about it on YouTube.

B (18:15)

I think, I think you hit it spot on. I think the whole idea of just sharing your journey and helping people get from like 0 to 1 or A to B or C to D or whatever, whatever that is, as long as you can like facilitate and be the bridge to that, bridge that gap, I think that's, that's, that's the only thing that's needed. Um, what, what did you do? So, okay, so let's go back into like the story a little bit, the timeline. Where are we at now? So you've now started, you pivoted to teaching people purely online and then we'll have it from there.

A (18:51)

So I did that. That and YouTube I did for about two years. So it was one on one coaching, group coaching courses, like the whole calligraphy purely around how to start a calligraphy business.

B (19:06)

Okay.

A (19:07)

And for, for about a year and a half, all my YouTube videos were mainly about how to make money with calligraphy or. And then eventually I started expanding a bit to just creative businesses in general. Yeah. So that was happening for about two years. And then I knew, I always, I always knew I didn't want to be a business coach forever. So that's when I started thinking, huh, okay, what do I want to do? And then, so that was 2022. I decided that, you know what I want to do, what I originally wanted to do, which was become a blogger. And so I thought, okay, but I think maybe now that I have the YouTube, my YouTube is basically like my blog because I'm sharing my journey, I'm sharing tips, I'm just gonna focus on YouTube and quit the coaching. And at that time I was monetized on YouTube already. I think I had about 2,000 or 3,000 subscribers. I was making about $100 on YouTube every month, which is not a lot. So I quit the coaching and then I thought, oh shoot, I need to make some money while I work on this YouTube thing. And that's when I started doing a whole bunch of these random side hustle things which included the Etsy Shop. It also included trying to do UGC user generated content. I also, I also made TikTok videos for a period underwear company in Vancouver and then I also delivered for Uber Eats. So I was just, you know, trying to make some cash while I focused on the YouTube. So that was 2022.

B (21:02)

Scrappy. Super scrappy. Yeah. The idea is that like you you have this thing where, okay, I like that you just kind of like, it's respectable when someone can just go all in on something. And this is what you've done probably multiple times now at this stage in your journey. Where you at? I guess I want to ask you where you're at now, but maybe I don't want to skip out parts of the story. So at this point you're all in. On YouTube, you only got 2,000 subscribers and growing probably. Now you're doing like these random videos.

A (21:32)

Kind of like random things just to make cash.

B (21:36)

Yep. Doordashing. Then what?

A (21:40)

Uber eats.

B (21:41)

Uber eats. Okay, Uber eats. And then what?

A (21:46)

Yeah. Okay, so then, so this is where the Etsy comes in. So I started selling Canva templates on Etsy and then I made a YouTube video sharing about my first month on Etsy. And here are the results which were I made 10 sales and I posted that on YouTube and then suddenly that video just started getting a lot of views and I started to grow. And within a month I, I went from 4,000 subscribers to 10,000 subscribers. And then I think my YouTube income was suddenly like a thousand dollars a month or something. And my Etsy shop was, my Etsy shop never made a ton of money, but it really helped my YouTube grow. And so after my YouTube hit 10,000 subscribers, I booked a one way ticket to Vietnam. I was like, I can finally digital nomad now.

B (22:47)

That was it when you hit 10K?

A (22:49)

Pardon?

B (22:50)

That was when you hit 10K subscribers?

A (22:52)

Yeah, 10K subscribers. And I was, yeah, making some, I guess, passive income from YouTube. And I thought, and then at that time I was also like recently out of a long term relationship. And so I was like, okay, this is the time now to finally try the digital nomading thing.

B (23:12)

I love this. And how are you still doing it? Digital nomading? No.

A (23:15)

So I did it for seven months and it was amazing. And I did like subscriber meetups and I continued to make the Etsy videos and I went to a whole bunch of places and then it got a bit. And then I think I did enough of it. I was like, I want to go home. I miss my friends and my cat and all my clothing. And so I came back after seven months and since then I, I don't think I want to be a digital nomad anymore. I think I want to be more rooted here in Vancouver. But I still love traveling. So my goal is, well, my plan is to travel like for one to two months in the winter when it's like raining In Vancouver. And then. Yeah, so no more digital nomading. I think I, like, I reached the goal, I achieved it, and then now I know what it's like. I don't want to do it full time.

B (24:17)

Did you feel any. So you have this goal for so many years, and you eventually reach this goal and you use it. You. You, like, do this goal for, like, seven months and then you come back home. Did you feel like. What did you feel like after that? Was it like a sense of relief, like achievements? Or was it a sense of wow, okay, so what's my purpose now? Or a mixture of both? Like, did you experience anything like that?

A (24:42)

Yeah, I think it was a mixture. I was super proud of myself for getting there, like, reaching my goal, which. That I had for eight to nine years. And then after I came back, it was kind of like, yeah, what do I do now? What I do now? I. I achieved the goal. Um, yeah, so it was a mix.

B (25:07)

Interesting. And then where did that leave you? Are. What is it now? Like, is it. You have a. Did you set a new goal? Did you, like, what's the goal now?

A (25:15)

Yeah, so since then, which was about two years ago, so I continued with the YouTube and then with the Etsy, I kind of felt like I didn't really want to make templates anymore and sell them. Yeah, I felt like. I think deep down I really wanted. I knew I wanted to do something that. Something like sharing my experiences with people and helping people in a more tangible way, I think, not just, like, through Etsy. Like, my. Yeah, my templates did help people, but I wanted to see the impact with my own eyes and, like, connect with people. So in 2020, let me think, when was it? 2023. So I was still doing the YouTube. And then I had this idea to start this calligraphy project, which was. It was the poem project. Like, I still loved doing calligraphy, but I noticed that, like, I didn't, like, I didn't like doing calligraphy for other people, like, for their wedding or because they. They need something or. And the calligraphy workshops were okay. It was. It felt like easy money for me, but I wanted to do something where I called the shots. Like, I was the director of the calligraphy stuff I do. So I had this idea to write poems for people based on requests that they send me. And I think, yeah, so it's about. It's been about, oh, oh, my God, I can't do math. Anyways, that was 2023 summer. And so I started to write poems. Obviously, I wasn't making money from it. I charged $10 if people wanted the mailed copy. But I did a lot for free. And that's why I have these on the wall, because these are the ones that people didn't want mailed. And for me, it was a way to connect with the world. And for me it feels like it's a healing thing that I think the world needs. Like, a lot of the times people send in a request and it's about their deepest struggle. And so I'll respond with a poem which makes them feel hopefully seen and heard. And there's this beauty created or this art created from, you know, their struggle or pain. And so right now it's been a struggle. Like, I've had a lot of imposter syndrome with poetry writing and making the videos. But in 2026, that's going to be my focus. So the poems and the YouTube and hopefully the poems will maybe go viral.

B (28:29)

Where can people find like the. Where can people like put a request in for. For a poem?

A (28:35)

Yeah, so if you go to any of the social media accounts that I've made for the poems, which is YouTube, TikTok and Instagram calligraphy poems for the soul, you. There's a link that you can go to or you can just go to my website, dinalucreative.com send in a request.

B (28:54)

Beautiful. Very cool. Do you feel like, is this like a potential to be like, is this like your next thing for the next like five years or is this more like. I'm just gonna try it out. We'll see how it goes for the next 2026. I'm curious of like, how Deena actually thinks about her future because you seem thoughtful, but you also kind of seem like you are very like, go with the flow and I will just see kind of where it goes. And that's probably not an accurate perception. It's just more like that's what I'm getting here in five minutes. Right.

A (29:21)

That's accurate. That's accurate. Which, yeah.

B (29:24)

Which is beautiful. Right. So I'm curious, like, how much do you actually think about this business being like a long term business or is this more like. This is like what I feel like creating right now.

A (29:35)

This is definitely more of a long term business idea. Unlike the, like the coaching and the Etsy and the ugc and I also tried Amazon influencer program. Like I tried so many things, but.

B (29:47)

They just like, that's the entrepreneurship journey.

A (29:50)

So, yeah, they just all. I think with those things, the goal was I just need to make money. Let Me see if this thing can make money. Because I've seen other people on YouTube talk about making thousands and thousands from these business ideas. But, yeah, I think one to two years ago I really wanted to. I didn't want to do that anymore. Like, just to do these random side hustles and make money and then not feel super connected with. With those income streams. So I. Yeah, when I thought. When I had the idea to do the poems, at first it was more like a. I don't know if I can write poems, but let me just see. And I think after a couple of months, that's when I thought, actually, I think I do wanna, like, if this thing could be my thing for like the next 10 to 20 years, that would be so cool. Like, I would just write poetry and do calligraphy and make videos and then. Well, and then obviously I do. At some point I would monetize it, you know, with the digital poetry shop. Or I could do brand deals if the pages get bigger or, I don't know, speaking gigs or write a book. Like, there's a lot of potential income streams. But the. I think my goal is the. The primary goal isn't to make money. The primary goal is to do something that feels right for me with the skills that I have and the interests that I have. And I talk a lot about this on my YouTube channel. I've named it. This is me starting on my soul business. Like a business that feels really aligned with my soul. So, yeah, the poetry project is what I want to do.

B (31:44)

I love it.

A (31:45)

Forever, if possible.

B (31:47)

I love this.

A (31:48)

Yeah.

B (31:49)

Very, very clear. By the way, are you ready for rapid fire questions? Sure. All right. What's your favorite business book or creativity book? Any kind of book that kind of gives you. Inspired you.

A (32:03)

Oh, I feel like I've read so many books. Okay. The one that really the. The one that I always recommend to people is a book called P.S. you're a Genius by Kelly Track. And it's a book about how to think about, like, everything that you've done in your life and all your skills and basically create your genius, like, find the thing that you're meant to do. It's sort of like the icky guy process, but it's just like another way of thinking about it.

B (32:36)

This isn't a question I was having, but how many books have you read in my life? Yeah, sure.

A (32:42)

Hundreds. I don't know. I read every day. Like, I would say I read a. I finish a book every two to one to four weeks, depending on how much I Like the book, how much.

B (32:52)

Are they like business centered versus like non business?

A (32:56)

Yeah, they're mainly non fiction. And these days I'm not really reading a lot of business books. I used to read a lot of business books, but now it's more. Oh, I'm really into spirituality and like, I'm starting to read some memoirs, but not so much business books now, but self.

B (33:20)

Self improvement. I feel like that. Because you read P.S. you're a genius. Right? So that's like the self improvement.

A (33:24)

Yeah, self improvement. I. Yeah, that category.

B (33:27)

I could for sure see you reading a lot of those books too. Okay, cool. What's one thing that you wish that you knew before starting on this whole journey? Like, what's one thing that would have maybe helped you move a little faster? Is there such thing?

A (33:41)

Maybe. Well, I think I would have had this self doubt anyways, but just, just do the thing and you know, you'll figure it out.

B (33:54)

I love that. That's really good because a lot of times people right now are listening to this and they are not doing the thing because they're worried they won't be able to figure it out. And so if they just did the thing, just do it anyway. Like, get rid of your. Who cares about your feelings for a moment. Um, just do it and just do it.

A (34:11)

And stop researching and planning and watching all these YouTube videos.

B (34:15)

Love it. What's the worst advice about business that you've ever received?

A (34:21)

I don't know. I can't think of anything I'll share.

B (34:24)

With one for me, maybe it'll inspire you or maybe it'll spark something. But I think about like, the worst advice for, for me is I remember it didn't just come from one person. It probably did, but it probably came from like a whole trend was the average millionaire has seven streams of income. And so then like it sold. This idea of, let's say that Cody's just starting out, you know, 12 years, 15 years ago, coming out of college is like, oh, I need to like get my streams of income up. You know, that's like my first thing I'm thinking of. And so it's like, okay, cool, I need to go like, invest in the stock market. I also need to like, do this. I also need to like, invest, buy a little crypto. Right? Do this. And it's like this constant thing of I'm just like trying to get a bunch of little streams versus I think that was just bad advice. And it's like really bad advice that you. For, for the context of like younger People or early people on their journey. Most of that advice comes from. It's talking to people that have already done something big, and then they diversify their income. Of course you should do that. But when you're first starting out, like, Dina starting out, like, she should put all of her efforts to, like, herself learning, and then my one income going first. So I'm not sure if that's a great answer, but that would be my answer to that question.

A (35:46)

Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with that. That it can feel scary for people when it's like, you know, all these successful people, you need seven income streams. And like, a lot of YouTube creators are also like, I made this amount and I have 10 income streams. Or even people in a 9 to 5 job, they have so many income streams. You know, there's their real estate investment, then they have a side hustle, then they have their 9 to 5 job. It's intimidating for people, and people can eventually get there. But I think it's important to just start with one at a time. Like, I always tell people two things max. You can only do two things. Like, yeah, work on two income streams max, at a time.

B (36:31)

I think Warren Buffett had this, like, really cool thing. I think it was him that said it. He said, like, you can do. Do. You could have anything that you want, just not all at the same time. And I'm like, that's so good. Like, we. Because we all want to do everything and be everywhere and, you know, give everything to everybody, and we can do, like, any of those things, but just not all at the same time. It has to, like, sometimes.

A (36:56)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (36:58)

How many hours do you think you work?

A (37:01)

Four to six per day.

B (37:02)

Cool. Do you feel like every person should own a business or should they not?

A (37:09)

No, not every person should. Like, not every. I think. I think I used to. Like a couple years ago, I kind of. I think maybe when I. Around the time I quit my job, I. I thought that people who were in a 9 to 5 job were just. You're just. You don't know what you're doing. You need to start a business because you need to achieve your dreams and do, you know, do the thing. But now I've. I've definitely changed my mindset on that, and I think there's no right way to live and make money. And I have a lot of friends who are. Well, most of my friends are in a job, and they're really happy. Like, they go do the job, they have their stable income and their benefits, and then they have so much Time to do other things in their life. And I think that's a really good way to live. But on the other hand, starting a business and doing. Yeah, creating something of your own is a really, is really satisfying in its, in its own way. And so I think whatever people want to do, like how they want to live, you don't have to start. There's a lot of different ways. You don't even need to have a job or a business.

B (38:30)

You could do nothing, eat a sandwich. I do feel like, I do feel like, yes, I agree with this. Of course. I also, at the same time I feel like there's also this other side of like I found that people that kind of only do that, like only live in the moment. Like they, they're usually the ones that are most susceptible to like hardships later on when like the tides turn a little bit or something shakes them up. For example, like with COVID happened, right. And people getting laid off. Like there are things I feel like I encourage people to like. You don't have to be a full time entrepreneur but like you should for sure have something there that you've been building and you're working on whether it's your own skills, like new skills or ideally your own, like a separate income that's, that's independent of your job. Because I feel like you put yourself at like a big risk and if you have a family, I think you put your family at risk when you only rely on your job. Because at the end of the day like that job can go away. I think the job can go, go away faster than your business typically, in my opinion, depending on the business, of course.

A (39:43)

Yeah, no, I, I think, I agree with that. I think, I guess it depends what kind of job. If it's like a tech job that's obviously not as secure as before, but for people who are like plumber or like more like the trades, I think.

B (40:01)

That like a nurse for example, like it's. Yeah.

A (40:04)

Nurse, like though.

B (40:04)

Yeah.

A (40:05)

Healthcare, those are a lot more stable. So I think it, I think it depends. But I do think in general it is a good idea to at least think about like different income streams or if it's not a side hustle, then what about real estate or what about, you know, there's a lot of ways I think people can do that.

B (40:26)

Totally.

A (40:26)

Yeah. And protect themselves.

B (40:28)

Where can people find you and connect with you and learn more from you and about you?

A (40:32)

Yeah. So I'm mainly on YouTube, so just search. Dina Lou. I also have a website, denalcreative.com and I'm also sort of sort of active on my personal Instagram dinadloo. And for the Calligraphy Poems, it's Calligraphy Poems for the Soul on any social media platform.

B (40:53)

Amazing. For anyone listening to this or watching this, all those links Aldina's links will be in the show notes or the YouTube description below. But yeah, thank you Dina for coming on. It's been a pleasure and I appreciate you and wish you the best of luck with everything. But I'm sure we'll continue to stay connected.

A (41:09)

Thank you so much, Cody.

B (41:10)

It's been great talk to you a bit.