← Business Daily
Business Daily
Are passengers ready for digital borders?
00:17:27
Electronic travel authorisation schemes are becoming more common globally
Loading summary
Transcript50 lines
- [00:00]
BBC Podcast Advertiser
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buyers. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn Ads and get $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com Broadcast that's LinkedIn.com Broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. This message comes from Schwab at Schwab. How you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own plus get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award winning service, low costs and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more.
- [01:19]
Rick Kelsey
On today's Business Daily. That sinking feeling none of us want to have at an airport so when
- [01:25]
Owen Ephraim
I checked in to the flight in Toronto, they were like, you don't have an esta, you need one to board the flight. And I was like, right, I'm going to have to go find us, find a seat, sit down and book another flight.
- [01:35]
Rick Kelsey
More people are having these moments as electronic travel passes are being made compulsory across dozens of countries. They might only cost a few dollars, but some think they're a negative for business travel too.
- [01:49]
Julia Lobuside
There's a lot that's changed. We just need to think, think it's not borderless travel like it used to be. We can't just rock up on a plane with our passport. We just have to think beforehand.
- [01:58]
Rick Kelsey
This year we'll see the travel authorizations come in across the EU as well as the uk. The responsibility is on you, the traveler, to get one.
- [02:07]
Stuart McDonald
This is going to be a shock. This is especially from North America. Americans and Canadians were used to just going to the airport and going. The idea that we are going to have to do this before we go is going to be new, it's going to be different and it is absolutely going to cause ripples across the entire travel ecosystem.
- [02:30]
Rick Kelsey
We'll hear the arguments for and against the passes and help you navigate the financial holes that some people are finding themselves in.
- [02:37]
Claire Irwin
It's just a little bit like, would you want me to come or not? Do you want my money or not? You know, I mean, I'm happy to pay more for the privilege of coming, but really, honestly, just.
- [02:45]
Rick Kelsey
Just let me in, that's all. Coming up on this business daily with Rick Kelce on electronic travel visas. I'm coming through airport passport security, a biometric scan and I'm through. From now on, people from outside the UK coming through these gates will need to have a UK ETA, an electronic travel authorization. It costs £16, about US$20, and you need to apply three days before to guarantee you will get it on time. The UK is the latest place to enforce these visas. The US ESTA system began back in 2008.
- [03:30]
Claire Irwin
We hear week on week about people who have been unable to board flights, who have wasted huge amounts of money and they just haven't understood fully the paperwork that they need to cross the border.
- [03:44]
Rick Kelsey
Claire Irwin is travel editor for the Sunday Times in the uk. So why is this happening so often and who's missing out?
- [03:51]
Claire Irwin
It's the individual who is really. No matter what insurance you've taken out, if you turn up without the right paperwork to get you to the place you've insured yourself to go to, the only person who's out of pocket there is you. If you are relying on your consumer rights to. To get you a refund for a flight you're not able to take because you haven't got the right paperwork, you're sadly mistaken. You know, you are the only one who's going to miss out. And we, as I say, we are seeing that week on week we have. And actually, in fact, you know, even on the travel desk, we've had instances, really, where people. Yeah, because it is complicated and it's also, we're all busy. It's very easy in the excitement and the anticipation of the holiday to forget to do it.
- [04:36]
Rick Kelsey
I just wonder whose responsibility is it when we book a holiday package, a cruise, for example, and we get there and you've not filled in this paperwork, which can take 5, 10, 15 minutes. And people seem to blame the travel companies a lot of the time for not reminding them to do it. But aren't individuals supposed to take a bit of responsibility for this as well?
- [04:57]
Claire Irwin
Yeah, absolutely. It's down to the individual. We're the ones who will miss out, after all, if we haven't got the right paperwork. What I would say about that is, if I was running an airline or a tour operator. With regards to my relationship with my customer, I think you've got a duty of care there to remind them of exactly what's needed to fulfill their greatest expectations. I mean, running those companies, you're in charge of a brand, you're in charge of effectively that consumer's experience. And it would be really helpful if you could remind people, if you could take people step by step. But also another thing we see is airline staff who are confused about what you need. Now this is actually, particularly with passport expiry, quite often I would say when it comes to these visa waivers in particular, paperwork isn't checked. So if you are a frequent traveler, actually you can get quite relaxed in the nicest possible sense of the word about it. If you haven't had those waivers checked, it's easy to forget that it's run out. For example, as with passports, it would be very little extra effort for a tour operator or an airline to send you an email, to send you a text to remind you to that you need to do this.
- [06:15]
Rick Kelsey
Claire Irwin from the Sunday Times there. The European Union's new entry and exit scheme is going to be started on the external borders of the 29 European countries over a six month period. There are thousands of messages on travel forums. You can read about people missing flights because they didn't know about these visas. Some have had to rebook whole families at a cost of thousands of dollars. Others are on their own, like video producer Owen Ephraim from South Wales.
- [06:45]
Owen Ephraim
So I was flying from Toronto to Chicago and didn't know I needed an ESTA for to enter America. So when I checked in to the flight in Toronto, they were like, you don't have an esta, you need one to board the flight. So I had to apply for one whilst in the queue to check in. I was then like asked to sit at the sit on the side where I had to wait for the ESTA to be approved. It took about two hours. Luckily I was like three hours early for the flight. Once it got approved they let me through and then I was rushed to security. They let me go through security with priority. But then I got through to immigration. That was a huge queue and I was like, there's no way I'm getting through. There's absolutely no way. And there were other people in the queue, like about to miss their flight. And then eventually I was really lucky because I had got through immigration and I was like, right, I'm going to have to go find, find a seat, sit down and book another flight. They announced on the tannoy last call for Owen Ephraim gate whatever. So I ran to the gate, pegged it and just made the flight. They shut the doors as I got on the plane. So yeah, squeaky bum time.
- [07:54]
Rick Kelsey
Owen, unlike so many others, just made it. There's also a problem of fraud or businesses making large profits off the new arrangements. Almost all the visas ask that people book directly with the government or official site of the country you are visiting. But this hasn't stopped companies charging sometimes hundreds of dollars for doing it for them, even masking as official partners. Jasmine Gallant from New Brunswick in Canada had a link to one of these sites from her airline. She ended up paying six times more than was necessary.
- [08:28]
Jasmine Gallant
So while I was using my airline app to check on my flights and all this because we had paid our our flight, it was all booked and all that, this link appeared and said all travelers to the UK need a traveling visa. Which I knew because we had done that before. This time it gave me a link and I thought oh how quickly and how convenient to have this on the app. So I did so applied for it. They never mentioned any fees. I just assumed that it was going to be the same fees as before. But I ended up paying £100 which the first time I had applied cost me £20. So with this I contacted my agent and she said oh dear, I'm sorry you got caught with this link. Didn't say anything about being scammed, but just thought I think she was aware that that link was more expensive than going directly through the government site. So she did send me the right link, but it was too late.
- [09:38]
Rick Kelsey
Jasmine Gallant there from New Brunswick in Canada. You're listening to Business Daily from the BBC World Service on travel authorizations
- [09:50]
Julia Lobuside
from GEICO Subconscious News. I'm Tammy Raising thoughts. Tonight you just left for work and had a non specific feeling that something was happening to your place and it wasn't good Dan.
- [09:58]
Rick Kelsey
Exactly Tammy. It could be smoke damage, theft or
- [10:01]
Stuart McDonald
just too much caffeine, but you can't
- [10:03]
Rick Kelsey
stop thinking about it.
- [10:04]
Julia Lobuside
But with renters insurance through Geico your stuff is covered so you don't have to worry.
- [10:08]
Rick Kelsey
And that's great because the weekend is coming up and it's chock full of social obligations that are ready to fill that void.
- [10:14]
Julia Lobuside
Oh boy, will they dad? It feels good to worry less. It feels good to Geico.
- [10:19]
MIDI Health Advertiser
This podcast is supported by MIDI Health. Are you in midlife, feeling dismissed, unheard or just plain tired of the old health care system? You're not alone in fact, even today, 75% of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated. But it's time for a change. It's time for miti. Mitti's not just a health care provider. It's a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world class leaders in women's health. Their clinicians provide one on one face to face consultations where they truly listen to your unique needs. They offer a full range of holistic, data driven solutions. That isn't one size fits all care. This is care uniquely tailored for you. At miti, you will find that their mission is clear to help all women thrive in midlife, giving them access to the healthcare they deserve. Because they believe midlife isn't the middle at all. It is the beginning of your second act. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit joinmitty.com today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's joinmitty.com MIDI the Care Women deserve
- [11:39]
Rick Kelsey
Estafraud to get into America is endless. It's frequent enough that U.S. customs and Border Protection regularly warns travelers about these scams. If you're paying more than $20 dollars, you're probably on a copycat site and not the US government's official application form. Getting a travel authorization normally takes hours. However, the US have admitted they plan to scan people's social media in the future in order to get an ESTA as well. This could delay things further. So what's the case for these travel authorizations? Julia Lobuside is from the Advantage Travel Partnership, a global consortium of independent travel businesses. Thanks so much for coming on the World Service and talking about this today.
- [12:25]
Julia Lobuside
You're welcome. No problem at all.
- [12:26]
Rick Kelsey
What are the advantages long term to these ESTA style visas? Is this just money making or is it security enhancement for governments?
- [12:37]
Julia Lobuside
Yeah, the whole purpose or the whole premise of a digital border control if you like, is exactly that. Different countries can control who's in and out of their borders. So this is all about anyone that doesn't need a visa to travel to a country. How do we know who's in the country? How do we control security from that point of view? If you apply for a visa, if you're a country that needs to apply for a visa, then you've, you've already had pre authorization. But up until now we've not had that. The UK's not had that. Europe's not had that. The US has had that.
- [13:09]
Rick Kelsey
We've Heard from people on this program and thousands of people really discussing their experiences of getting to the airport or getting to a ferry terminal and going, oh, hang on a second, I didn't know anything about this. Should businesses like the ones that you represent be doing more to tell people about these travel authorizations when people book?
- [13:31]
Julia Lobuside
Well, it's a really fair point. And I think for consumers who book through a travel agent, through the members that I represent, they will absolutely be updated. They will absolutely have all the information they need. The voids of information, I guess, and the challenge always is because you can book in so many different ways, if at the point of sale you're not being advised, then that becomes quite a difficult challenge. But no, it's incumbent on businesses to make sure that they're educating consumers. The problem for all of us, until we, until we need something, we're not, we don't really care about it, we're not really absorbing information. And I guess until you are thinking about traveling or you're thinking about stepping on that plane, you've probably not thought about, is there something that's changed? There's something different I need to do now that I've not had to do before.
- [14:16]
Rick Kelsey
I mean, that's an interesting point you just bring up there. Who is it? Who's failing? Why are so many people missing flights and cruises?
- [14:25]
Julia Lobuside
I think it's become so complex and the rules are changing pretty quickly. Since Brexit. From an EU point of view, from a British passport holder perspective, if you like, we've never had to, not in a kind of generational perspective. We've never had to worry about traveling to Europe, thinking about visas, thinking about, you know, kind of, you know, what, what documentation do I need to worry about other than my passport all of a sudden? The last few years, life traveling has changed quite a lot. Not only post pandemic, but post Brexit. There's, there's a lot that's changed. We just need to think it's not borderless travel like it used to be. We can't just rock up on a plane with our passport.
- [15:06]
Rick Kelsey
Many of these new visas, whether it's Kenya, the US or the EU, charge between $10 and $30 and they last for up years when you need to renew. And when you do renew, you also need to be careful where you buy.
- [15:20]
Julia Lobuside
That's unfortunately, with all these new systems, it creates an opportunity for fraudsters and scammers and, and we've seen that, we've seen that with Esther's actually over the years. And so my Advice would be again, you know, unless you're booking through a travel agent that you know and that, that you're familiar with, if you're booking online, use the government website. Use the legitimate government website. Do not use any other website because you don't need to. Even now, Rick, there are fraudsters out there who are trying to charge for the entry scheme into Europe right now. No one needs to pay anything. There is nothing to pay right now. That's not coming in until October this year. And even then there'll be a six month period where it won't necessarily be mandatory. Do not pay anything right now.
- [16:08]
Rick Kelsey
Julia Lobu Syed I wanted to speak with someone who has worked inside the travel authorization market both as a board member in Sherpa, the world's largest third party facilitator of the sale of etters and E visas and also as the founder of Expedia Canada. Stuart McDonald has been in and around the travel space for 30 years.
- [16:33]
Stuart McDonald
This is going to be a shock. This is especially from North America. Americans and Canadians were used to just going to the airport and going. The idea that we are going to have to do this before we go is going to be new, it's going to be different and it is absolutely going to cause ripples across the entire travel ecosystem.
- [16:56]
Rick Kelsey
But Stuart, the pace at which countries have been adopting these visas has been prolific.
- [17:02]
Stuart McDonald
If you go back 2024, there were an additional 10 countries that came in with electronic travel authorizations. In 25, another 31 countries added travel authorizations. And if you look into 2026, there's going to be at least 35 more countries that add some kind of pre travel authorization. The biggest one of those is, is going to be in the back half of this year when the EU within the Schengen zone adds the need for an etas, which is their version of a travel authorization across all countries in the Schengen zone. So it is a huge global trend that doesn't show any signs of letting up.
- [17:45]
Rick Kelsey
Does this put you in a difficult place with a, a travel documentation and tech platform which makes money from these electronic travel authorizations but also knows what a pain they can be?
- [17:58]
Stuart McDonald
Well, that's the reason that Sherpa even exists, is because we want it to be less of a pain. There's always the option of, of getting one of these directly from the government, whatever the government happens to be. But at the end of the day what we're trying to do is make it easier for people to, to travel and to break down border barriers. And so by applying technology and smart user experience onto this entire process, we're basically enabling more people to travel more easily. And the reality is that for a lot of people, the fact that they're even going to need something like this is going to come as a real surprise.
- [18:40]
Rick Kelsey
Yes, I mean, that's, that's a really good point, isn't it? And at the same time, people don't know where to go. And yeah, you might be charging, you know, just a couple of dollars, but there are people who are being ripped off who are getting some rather dodgy schemes sent to them because quite frankly, they don't know where to start with these things.
- [18:59]
Stuart McDonald
From our perspective, you can sort of tell by the fact that Sherpa works with some of the largest airlines in the world as a partner. You know, the American Airlines of the world, Delta, Air Canada, British Airways, were embedded into how their, their, their travelers are even managing their trips in some situations were embedded into how their travelers are even checking in. So our, our position is pretty clear. We are very much on the side of the traveler. We're very much on the side of, of working to make things easier, to make it more efficient and effective for the carriers as well.
- [19:36]
Rick Kelsey
Who's winning and who's losing out of all these governments making these travel visas and authorizations?
- [19:43]
Stuart McDonald
Stuart, the easiest way to solve a problem with somebody coming into your country and doing something you don't want them to do is by not letting them come at all. And so pushing the problem offshore such that the person's not even able to get on an aircraft if they haven't successfully secured pre travel authorization really reduces the likelihood that you're going to have bad actors potentially arriving.
- [20:12]
Rick Kelsey
Stuart McDonald from Sherpa. So, business or pleasure, check if you need a trip travel authorization before you go. And check you're not overpaying to get hold of it. That's all for this business daily on Travel Authorizations with Rick Kelsey. If you're off to the airport, double check everything.
- [20:36]
MIDI Health Advertiser
This podcast is supported by Midi Health. Are you in midlife, feeling dismissed, unheard, or just plain tired of the old healthcare system? You're not alone. In fact, even today, 75% of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated. But it's time for a change. It's time for MITI. MITI's not just a health care provider. It's a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world class leaders in women's health Their clinicians provide one on one face to face consultations where they truly listen to your unique needs. They offer a full range of holistic, data driven solutions that isn't one size fits all care. This is care uniquely tailored for you. At miti you will find that their mission is clear to help all women thrive in midlife, giving them access to the healthcare they deserve because they believe midlife isn't the middle at all. It is the beginning of your second act. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit joinmitty.com today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's joinmitty.com MIDI the Care Women deserve.