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Business Daily meets: Fani Titi, Investec CEO
00:17:27
The South African grew up on a farm under the racist apartheid system
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Narrator
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.
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Ryan
Hey, let's talk about your expense report.
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Margaret
I didn't submit an expense report.
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Ryan
You will. Custom saddles and dog training services are not within policy.
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Margaret
What are you talking about?
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Ryan
SAP Concur uses advanced AI to audit and automatically detect out of policy expenses. It's the breakthrough I needed to focus more on our future.
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Margaret
These are my future expenses?
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Liana Byrne
Yes.
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Ryan
And self defense classes are out of policy.
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Margaret
I'll need self defense classes.
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Liana Byrne
You will? For what?
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Ryan
It's a big dog.
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Margaret
SAP Concur helps your business move forward faster.
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BritBox Announcer
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Ryan
You read lips right?
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Liana Byrne
You don't look like Princess.
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Fani Titi
I'll take that as a compliment.
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BritBox Announcer
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Liana Byrne
Hi, I'm Liana Byrne and you're listening to Business Daily meets on the BBC World Service. Today. From growing up on a farm to running one of South Africa's biggest banks, we hear about the extraordinary life of Fani Titi, CEO of the multinational banking group Investech. We learn how a life in farming seemed guaranteed until a chance event took him down a different path.
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Fani Titi
You really cannot see a way out. And thankfully, in my 12th year, my dad had a fight with his farm master and we left the farms completely.
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Liana Byrne
Why? After studying maths and working as a lecturer, he cashed in his pension in his 30s.
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Fani Titi
Success was not in any way guaranteed. Some of my colleagues thought the risk I was taking was simply too high. But I really believed that I could make a success of it and I went for it.
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Liana Byrne
And the tough decisions he's had to make as CEO of a global bank.
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Fani Titi
When we decided to exit our business in Australia, it was during COVID We were on teams talking to people about their future. So it was extremely difficult because they were painful.
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Liana Byrne
That's all coming up on Business daily from the BBC. So it's the early 1960s. South Africa's racial segregation and discrimination system is deeply entrenched. Black people are being kept separate from white people. They're living in poorer conditions and they have fewer opportunities in life. In the rural province of the Free State, a young wharni titi is being Raised on a farm with 13 siblings.
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Fani Titi
There were 14 of us that were born at that time. And essentially the idea then was we would work on the farms for the rest of our lives because that was the nature of the apartheid system at the time. Grew up in abject poverty, but with two parents in the household, that gave us as children a level of security and second, instilled values in us because when you do have parents, it does create a family structure and values can be transmitted in that program. So despite the poverty, despite the harshness of the farm labor system, despite the issues around apartheid, at least we were blessed to have a functional family that we grew in.
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Liana Byrne
One of 14, though. I mean, that's a huge family, isn't it? Where do you fall in the line? Are you the youngest, the oldest, the middle?
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Fani Titi
Somewhere in the middle?
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Liana Byrne
Do you think that makes a difference on your personality, who you are? Maybe you're always trying to stand out as a middle child?
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Fani Titi
Yeah, I think it does. Because firstly, you learn the sense of community and you always learn that you don't get everything you want. Things get handed down to you and you also have to look after the younger members of the family. So it's a good environment to grow in, I think, because it teaches you your responsibility to others and not to be too self centered.
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Liana Byrne
I'm sure as well, growing up under apartheid, that really shaped you as a person as well.
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Fani Titi
Yeah, those were hard times, as you will find with people who grew in that era. The apartheid system was meant to subjugate black people and people of color in general. Your sense of self worth would be significantly challenged from an early stage. People like myself would always struggle for a sense of better self worth, a sense of acceptance and really an opportunity to succeed and to show your worth.
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Liana Byrne
You started off working on a farm as a child. Did you think that was your path in life?
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Fani Titi
I suppose when you are in a situation like that, you really cannot see a way out and you tend to accept that as your fate. That was the fate of your parents, the fate of your older brothers and sisters. And you take that to be what life has chosen for you. And thankfully, in my 12th year, my dad had a fight with his farm master and we left the farms completely. At the time that the apartheid government was also engineering a different social project where they were looking to separate black people on the basis of ethnicity and language. So we ended up in what you would probably call today a labor camp. A place where you have hundreds of thousands of people and companies would come from time to time. Into the area to hire people. That's how I escaped a lifelong service on the farm and got to get an education. So that was a big break in my life. My parents encouraged every one of us that was still young enough to try the education route. And for me it's been a lifesaver. And as a consequence of education and the opportunities we got, we were able to essentially change the life of the next generation.
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Liana Byrne
Tell me about that path in education that you followed.
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Fani Titi
The first years away from the farms were difficult because the apartheid system was about dehumanizing people. So a low sense of self worth and thankfully met a teacher. My next grade that had a fundamental belief in the ability of people to do well, started gaining confidence, completed high school and thankfully, because my high school grades were good, I received a besary from Anglo American, one of the large mining companies in the country. That got me to study at the University of Fort, which was one of the designated black universities because in those days education was also segregated. But that was my break and I started to believe in the future that would be much better than would have been the case.
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Liana Byrne
Forney was showing a real talent for mathematics. He finished his undergraduate studies and then won a Fulbright scholarship to study maths in the US at the University of California, Berkeley, before returning to South Africa to work as a lecturer. But he was already starting to think about a different path in life.
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Fani Titi
I love mathematics as a subject of study, but came to a pretty crucial conclusion that the life of focused theoretical research was interesting, but not necessarily what I wanted to do. So I decided to study a master's degree in business administration because I came to a fairly simple conclusion that I loved working with people and that to achieve more, I thought I would be able to do so if I worked with people and through people.
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Liana Byrne
I think you were in your 30s at the time, weren't you, when you decided to make that switch from academia into business. And for a lot of people, they have their job and you know, you had struggled a lot to get to where you were to then make that decision to take a leap from academia and I believe use your pension to fund getting into business and doing an mba. You know, what prompted you to make that decision?
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Fani Titi
I think I got to a point that I started believing in myself and even though I had a family at the time, we already had a daughter, decided to take the risk of cashing in my pensions. My wife then moved in with my in laws and we took a two year breakout to study. I think right through life at critical Moments you probably take decisions based on, you could call it faith or based on a belief in the future, based on a drive that you can become better. That is how I made that particular decision. Success was not in any way guaranteed. In fact, in those days, because black people were not in leadership positions in business, some of my colleagues thought the risk I was taking was simply too high. But I really believed that I could make a success of it. And I went for it and it worked out.
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Liana Byrne
Talk to me about your first days in business.
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Fani Titi
Started off in corporate South Africa. Worked for a rival bank. But in 1992 the business environment was hostile to black people.
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Narrator
A man who has been in prison for nearly three decades, 72 years old.
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Fani Titi
South Africa was going through a transition. Nelson Mandela had been released.
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Narrator
And a salute from Mr. Nelson Mandela, his wife Winnie, greeting the people outside the fences of the victorfestad prison.
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Fani Titi
It was quite clear that the ANC would be coming into power. The markets were particularly volatile because there wasn't certainty that there would be a peaceful transition. So being in a dealing room at that time when currency would go up and down based on what someone in the ANC said was pretty difficult and tough and hostile. So when the opportunity arose to go into a private equity business that was essentially started by a development agency that was called the Kakiso Trust. They used to handle development money from the European Union, from Japan and other governments. Because these governments did not want to work with the apartheid government. The leader of that business, one Eric Molobi. So the transition coming, he was an ex Robben Islander but said that he did not want ordinary people to be subjected to the whims of government. That he wanted to establish an investment company that would be modeled along the lines of the Ford foundation. So create profits that in the long term would sustain development work. That was the idea. And the early days were really interesting because we got to make some private equity investments in the middle 90s. Leverage was quite available. You could gear companies quite significantly. So we did not need a lot of equity. As the leverage unwound, we created significant value. That was the time where I got to be chief executive of a media company that we had formed at the time. And I took that to a public listing on the Johannesburg stock exchange. Still one of the greatest achievements for me, for my team and for Eric Molobi and the Cahiso Trust that we could successfully list a business on the Johannesburg stock exchange.
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Liana Byrne
At three year private equity investing. You became a client of Envestec and then you became non executive director so why did you want to become more involved in the bank?
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Fani Titi
When I left the Cahisa trusts fold, we started a business of our own with two partners and we raised a capital in the market. And before we did that, when I was working with Eric Mulobi, Investec advised us on a number of our transactions. We had come to know the key leaders of Investec and got onto the board as a non executive director and really got to understand the business.
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Liana Byrne
You became chairman of the board at a really interesting time, 2007, just before the financial crisis. How did you stir up the ship at that time?
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Fani Titi
2007 was interesting. South Africa went through a transition from one President Tabumbeki to Jacob Zuma. And that was a pretty interesting transition because it would lead to years of difficulty and turmoil. We always priced higher levels of capital and liquidity so we were able during the global financial crisis to navigate the difficulties of the time. We did not have to go to the government for support at all, whether here in South Africa or in the UK where we have a bank. But we needed to be hands on. And of course it prepared us to navigate Covid much easier because the tools that we had learned and some of the regulatory changes that were made as a consequence of the global financial crisis. South Africa was one of the countries that managed Covid and the global financial crisis much, much better than others.
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Liana Byrne
You're listening to Business Daily on the BBC World Service.
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Sarah
Hey, this is Sarah. Look, I'm standing out front of a.m. p.m. Right now and well, you're sweet and all, but I found something more fulfilling, even kind of cheesy, but I like it. Sure you met some of my dietary needs, but they've just got it all. So farewell, Oatmeal so long, you strange.
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Margaret
Soggy break up with bland breakfast and taste AM PM's bacon, egg and cheese biscuit made with K tree eggs, smoked bacon and melty cheese on a buttery biscuit. AM P M Too much. Good stuff. Limu Emu and Doug, here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu. Is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Fairy Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company Affiliates excludes Massachusetts.
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Liana Byrne
I'm Liana Byrne and today I'm talking to Farnie Titi, the CEO of the global banking group Investech. It was in 2020 that Farnie Titi stepped up to become chief executive. This was a challenging time, not just because of a global pandemic.
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Fani Titi
We decided as part of a strategic review that we would demerge the asset management business and the banking and wealth business. So that's when Covid hit. So we're in the early days of listing of the asset management business and the risks were quite significant. I remember at that time the FTSE went down between 20 and 30% and we made a significant loss in our structured finance business. We estimated that over time we probably would have a loss of around 200 million pounds, which for our business was quite large. And I must say that period was one of the most significant periods in my working life.
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Liana Byrne
And I know you had some tricky decisions as well because the bank has gone through a lot of restructuring. Is it quite difficult to come up with a strategy, particularly when you're cutting people's jobs?
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Fani Titi
I suppose what we do in our leadership journeys is look out for the long term sustainability of a business. In our case, in 2000, early and in late 90s, we were in a number of different geographies. We were in many lines of business and we thought we needed to reshape the business. For instance, we got out of Australia, we got out of Hong Kong. We decided that we would substantially downscale equity investment business. We decided that we would shatter a robo advisor in the UK in the wealth space because we were making investments for the long term and we did not have the resources to run a number of highly costly strategies over that time. So essentially lost about 11% of our people. We care very deeply about our people. So these were decisions that were most painful. I remember when we decided to exit our business in Australia, it was during COVID I couldn't personally travel to Sydney. So at 3am South African time we were on teams talking to people about their future. So it was extremely difficult because they were painful. So those were the hard times. We've learned a lot out of them. But unfortunately, when you think about building a business in the long term, there are hard decisions you have to make from time to time.
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Liana Byrne
Do you think we're over those tough times? Because for businesses across the world, they're looking at tariffs and these new taxes that are coming in and just general unrest really in an lot of economies. Are you optimistic that growth will continue?
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Fani Titi
Over the last five, six, seven years, volatility and uncertainty have been key drivers for all the management teams that look at businesses. For governments that run economies, we've seen anemic growth in South Africa since 2007. Really? If you look at the last 10 years or so, growth of around 1% per annum. In a country where unemployment is around 33% and unemployment among young people is over 50%, we need growth of between 3 and 5% to start to absorb unemployment. It's, of course, complicated by a world that is de globalizing to some extent. Tariffs are but one element of the conundrum of challenges that face world economies and businesses.
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Liana Byrne
Now, on a global level, you've championed sustainability, you've joined the UN initiative, but do you think. Do you think CEOs around the world are doing enough to marry profit with purpose?
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Fani Titi
I think we're in a challenging time with respect to businesses living out their purpose. I think over the last 10 years or so, we saw significant movement around sustainability. We saw financial services companies, both insurers and banks, forming a number of alliances to try and support climate transition. And obviously seeing what's happening around the world. Driven by, largely by the changes in US policy around sustainability, a number of banks have pulled back a bit for us. We remain committed to a transition into net zero by 2050. So our values and our purpose require us to continue to work. So looking at supporting sustainability, supporting climate action, but being a little less burdensome in terms of regulation would help in this very difficult period that we are going through. But in the long term, I have no doubt that corporates and those with resources will recommit to sustainability, will recommit to climate change, will recommit to inclusion and a fairer and more equal society.
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Liana Byrne
That was Fahni Titi, CEO of Envestech, talking to me.
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Liana Byrne.
- [19:15]
For this edition of Business Daily, you can hear more episodes. Just search for Business Daily wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Thanks for listening.
- [19:42]
Ryan
Hey, Ryan, that was a fast trip. It was like you teleported.
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Fani Titi
Yeah, just got in. I'll get all my expenses logged, I promise.
- [19:48]
Ryan
Oh, no, you're okay. SAP Concur uses advanced AI, so your expense report will practically write itself. Quite the breakthrough. It's like we've been teleported into the future. All right, so just curious, would you give us written permission to convert your matter into energy patterns and reassemble you at, say, random travel destinations?
- [20:04]
Fani Titi
Margaret, are you building a teleporter?
- [20:06]
Liana Byrne
No.
- [20:07]
Ryan
Yes.
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Fani Titi
SAP Concur helps your business move forward faster. Learn more at concur. Com.