Business Daily meets: Thailand's Chef Pam

Summary

Business Daily Meets: Thailand's Chef Pam

BBC World Service | Host: Gideon Long | October 2, 2025

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Overview

In this episode of Business Daily meets, host Gideon Long visits Bangkok’s Chinatown to meet Pichaya Sunton Yanakid, better known as Chef Pam. Recently awarded the title of "Best Female Chef in the World" by 50 Best, Chef Pam is not only breaking boundaries for Asian women in global cuisine but also pioneering a unique vision for Thai-Chinese gastronomy. The episode dives into her personal journey, the challenges of running a renowned restaurant, and her commitment to representing Thailand’s culinary heritage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chef Pam's Background and Culinary Roots

• Family & Heritage:

  • Chef Pam has a mixed heritage (Chinese, Thai, and some Australian), with culinary traditions deeply rooted in her family.
  • Learned to cook from her mother, who transitioned from a broker to a full-time housewife and home cook.
  • “I learned cooking from my mom…She would go to the market, buy ingredients, and then come back home and cook for the family… I always go to the market, come home, and the kitchen.” (03:00)

• First Forays into Cooking:

  • Started cooking at age 10-12, with her parents as her "guinea pigs."
  • Early encouragement to cook for her mother’s friends fostered her passion and confidence.
  • “I remember my first dish that I cooked for my mom was stir fried noodles. I was very proud and very excited as a young kid able to feed an adult.” (03:24)

• Culinary Education and Return:

  • Studied at the Culinary Institute of America in the US—a transformative experience that broadened her perspective.
  • Opened her first restaurant in her parents’ house, leading to amusing family memories (her parents climbing in through a window due to the dining room being used). (04:35)

2. Thai-Chinese Cuisine & Philosophy at Potong

• Defining Thai-Chinese Cuisine:

  • Chef Pam views "Thai-Chinese" as a distinct subset within Thai cuisine, shaped by historical migration and cultural fusion.
  • Aims for her restaurant Potong to be not just a place to eat, but a spiritual journey through her heritage:
    • “Dining can happen in a very spiritual level. And I want people to feel…like traveling back in time and traveling back into my memories and my heritage.” (05:09)

• Ingredient Sourcing & Local Economy:

  • Sources premium ingredients from across Thailand—rice from the north, seafood from the south, and produce according to season. Dry goods and Chinese herbs are bought locally in Chinatown.
  • “We source our ingredients from around Thailand. Rice from the north and from the south we get all the seafood, which is amazing… dry spices and Chinese herbs…steps away from here.” (06:03-06:48)

3. Tour of Bangkok’s Chinatown Market

• Market Walk & Food Culture:
  • Chef Pam guides Gideon Long through vibrant market stalls, sharing insights on traditional ingredients:
    • Fish maw (dried swimming bladder of fish) and dried scallops as delicacies
    • Unique fruits used for tea and health
    • Culturally important foods like roast duck used for ancestor offerings (07:30–09:01)
  • Tasting old-school snacks, coconut sugar treats, and Chinese almond milk—highlighting the intersection of taste, memory, and tradition.
    • “This is a very old school almond milk, Chinese almond milk…It’s almond milk made from Chinese almond, which has a very different aroma and taste.” (10:23)

4. Building Potong: Family, Business, and Heritage

• Renovation & Investment:

  • Founded Potong as a passion project with significant personal and family financial risk (over $1 million on renovation).
  • “We sold everything, sold the gold, and kind of like bet our lives on this project…The rest…comes from my dad. He’s the investor.” (14:32)

• Historical Significance of the Building:

  • Potong operates in the refurbished ancestral home built by her Chinese forebear over 120 years ago, originally a Chinese medicine shop.
  • The tour showcases preserved architectural details—original ceilings, wall scripts, living quarters, and influences from Portuguese traders.
    • “So when we opened this up, I was really, I fell in love with the building because you can see all the details.” (15:11–15:23)

5. Restaurant Operations & Business Mindset

• Business Challenges:

  • Chef Pam candidly shares the leap between great cooking and successful restaurant management, crediting her husband as the business manager who handles operations and strategy.
    • “There’s so many great chefs that cook fabulous food. But not all chef can run a successful and positive restaurant. And that’s the hard part.” (18:04)

• Overcoming Skepticism:

  • Opened Michelin-starred Potong in an unconventional location—Bangkok’s Chinatown—with many doubting it would attract high-end diners.
    • “Many people were very skeptical…there’s no market for people who want to pay $180 for a meal.” (18:28)
  • Winning a Michelin star was a major milestone and motivator for the team:
    • “It’s a big milestone for me. And it’s also kind of like a motivation for all of us to push for the second star.” (18:53)

• Pricing, Marketing, and Expansion:

  • Tasting menu is ~$180 per person, averaging $200-250 per guest with drinks.
  • Emphasizes the importance of embedding a marketing budget; word-of-mouth alone isn’t enough. (19:19)
  • Open to future international expansion but only when ready: “We never close any doors.” (19:54)

6. Values and Leadership in the Kitchen

• Hiring Philosophy:

  • Chef Pam prioritizes attitude and dedication over skill when hiring.
  • “Skills you can always teach, but attitude you cannot teach anyone.” (20:28)

• Attachment to Place & Legacy:

  • Deep emotional connection to Potong and its location—this is where Chef Pam feels most authentic and inspired.
  • “The food here is from my soul and from my inspiration. So I cannot be anywhere else apart from Potong.” (20:53)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Family, Food, and Identity:

  • “My mom is 100% Chinese by blood…My father, he’s half Chinese and half Australian, but grew up in Thailand.” (02:37)
  • “I was very proud and very excited as a young kid able to feed an adult. That’s what sparked me to want to be a chef.” (03:24)

• On Culinary Philosophy:

  • “I want people to feel when they step into Potong, it’s like traveling back in time and traveling back into my memories and my heritage.” (05:09)

• On Risk and Entrepreneurship:

  • “We sold everything…bet our lives on this project.” (14:32)
  • “Doing business…there’s no right or wrong because it’s a business that varies from different situation to different situation and from different countries.” (17:37)

• On Authenticity and Place:

  • “This is my place and my ground. The food here is from my soul and from my inspiration.” (20:53)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:09] — Introduction to Chef Pam and her accolades
• [03:24] — Early cooking experiences and familial influences
• [05:09] — Chef Pam explains Thai-Chinese cuisine’s significance
• [06:03–07:00] — Sourcing ingredients and the local Chinatown connection
• [07:18–09:01] — Market tour: unique ingredients and cultural practices
• [13:49] — Discussing the business realities of opening Potong
• [14:49–17:25] — Walking through the historic Potong building
• [18:28] — Facing skepticism and the role of the Michelin star
• [19:04] — Restaurant economics and marketing approach
• [20:28] — Leadership and staff hiring philosophy
• [20:53] — Chef Pam on why Potong is irreplaceable for her

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Conclusion

The episode paints a vivid portrait of Chef Pam as a visionary, both deeply rooted in her family’s past and boldly charting a new course for Thai cuisine. Listeners gain insight into the challenges and rewards of achieving culinary excellence, the significance of place and heritage, and the business acumen required to thrive at the highest level. Chef Pam’s journey is a testament to passion, resilience, and the enduring power of food to tell personal and national stories.

Transcript

[Gideon Long]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.

[SAP Concur Representative]

Hey, let's talk about your expense report.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

I didn't submit an expense report.

[SAP Concur Representative]

You will. Custom saddles and dog training services are not within policy.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

What are you talking about?

[SAP Concur Representative]

SAP Concur uses advanced AI to audit and automatically detect out of policy expenses. It's the breakthrough I needed to focus more on our future.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

These are my future expenses? Yes.

[SAP Concur Representative]

And self defense classes are out of policy.

[Grainger Maintenance Worker]

I'll need self defense classes.

[SAP Concur Representative]

You will?

[Gideon Long]

For what?

[BritBox Advertiser]

It's a big dog.

[Grainger Maintenance Worker]

SAP Concur helps your business move forward faster.

[BritBox Advertiser]

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[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

You don't look like Princess.

[Gideon Long]

I'll take that as a compliment.

[BritBox Advertiser]

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[Narrator/Interviewer]

Hello and welcome to Business Daily meets from the BBC World Service with me, Gideon Long. My guest today was this year named the best female chef in the world by a panel of over a thousand gastronomists assembled by 50 Best, a food and drink sector brand. She's the first Asian woman ever to be given that award and and she's still only 36. Her name is Pichaya Sunton Yanakid, also known as Chef Pam.

[Gideon Long]

Hello Pam.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Hi. Welcome.

[Gideon Long]

Hi. Very nice to meet you. Gideon from the BBC.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Nice to meet you. Please come in. Welcome.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

I met her at her Michelin starred restaurant Potong in the heart of Chinatown in the Thai capital Bangkok.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

This is my place and my ground and it's a very personal building for me because it's belong to my family.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Chef Pam is a woman on a mission.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

It's very important for me to represent Thailand and show what Thai food is all about.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

But as an entrepreneur and restaurant owner, she also knows that being a world class chef isn't in itself enough for me.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

I think there's so many great chefs around the world that cook fabulous food. But not all chefs can run a successful and positive restaurant. And that's the hard part.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

That's Pichaya Sunton Yanakit, Chef Pam here on Business Daily from the BBC.

[Gideon Long]

So let's start by talking about your upbringing. You're Thai, you were born in Thailand but you have Chinese heritage as well, tell me about your upbringing.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

My mom is 100% Chinese by blood, but she's the second generation and she's Thai now. And my father, he's half Chinese and half Australian, but grew up in Thailand, so. So even though they are both Thai, they have the culture of Chinese and a little bit of Western as well. So I grew up in a family that my mom cooks, and she cooks Thai, Chinese cuisine. I learned cooking from my mom because once she has my brother, older brother, and myself, she quit her job as a broker and became a housewife. So she would go to the market, buy ingredients, and then come back home and cook for the family. And naturally, I have to always be there alongside with her. I always go to the market, come home, and the kitchen.

[Gideon Long]

And when did you start cooking yourself?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Wow, 10, 11, 12. Around that age that I started to cook a meal for my mom and my dad. They are my guinea pigs. I remember my first dish that I cooked for my mom was stir fried noodles. I was very proud and very excited as a young kid able to feed and adult. That's what sparked me to want to be a chef and a cook. My mom, she has a lot of friends and she always invite her friends to come over for dinner. And when I started to learn to cook, my mom pushed me to cook for her and her friends also. And that's how it happens. Why don't you cook for my friends?

[Narrator/Interviewer]

As a teenager, Pam went to study at the prestigious Culinary Institute of America in the United States.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

That was the best decision ever because it was my first time living separate from my parents. For me to go abroad and to do everything by myself, I think makes me see things wider and I think that makes me who I am today. So after training in the US For a couple of years, I come back to Thailand. I decided to open a small restaurant. And my parents, they are very kind that they allow it.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

And to be clear, when Pam says her parents were very kind, that's because the restaurant was in their house.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

My parents have to climb up the stairs at the back window to get into their room because, you know, there's people that they don't know sitting in their dining room.

[Gideon Long]

So they couldn't get into their own house through the front door?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

They cannot.

[Gideon Long]

Your parents had to walk around the back of the house?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes. Looking back, it was so funny.

[Gideon Long]

Have they forgiven you?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

They have forgiven me.

[Gideon Long]

So Thai, Chinese food, what are the main elements? What do we need to know about Thai, Chinese food?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Many people ask me, what is it? Is it Chinese? Or is it Thai? For me, Thai Chinese is a one word thing. So if you walk around the road and you go into a noodle shop, that's Thai Chinese, Pad Thai, you think it's Thai, right? But it's actually Thai Chinese. But I'm not saying that it's not Thai. I think Thai Chinese is a sub cuisine of Thai cuisine. I want people to feel like coming to Patong is not just coming to a dinner place. I want people to feel more than that. I think dining can happen in a very spiritual level. And I want people to feel when they step into Patong, it's like traveling back in time and traveling back into my memories and my heritage.

[Gideon Long]

People say that a chef is only as good as his or her ingredients. So where do you get your ingredients from?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

If you start off with the best ingredients, it's easy to make food tastier. We source our ingredients from around Thailand. Rice from the north and from the south we get all the seafood, which is amazing. I think Thai seafood is very underestimated. We have so many fish that we can eat the seaweed and all sorts of crabs that we get from the south.

[Gideon Long]

So that's the seafood. How about the fruit and vegetables? Where do you buy those?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Sometime the north, sometime the south. It depends on the season. So right now is mango season now. So we would get from a farm that is very small farm, but it's very consistent. So it really depends on the fruit that you're getting.

[Gideon Long]

And do you buy ingredients locally from here in Chinatown as well?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes, mostly the dry ingredients, like dry spices and Chinese herbs. I always get it from Chinatown, which is steps away from here.

[Gideon Long]

Literally around the corner from your restaurant?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes, yes.

[Gideon Long]

Can we do a bit of shopping? Will you take me shopping?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Of course. There's a lot to to see and I'd love to show you around. Chinatown in Bangkok is one of the biggest out of China. So this is only a really small part of Chinatown.

[Gideon Long]

Looking around, it's kind of what I guess lots of people would imagine a Chinatown should look like. These narrow alleys, lots of restaurants really bustling. A lot of people.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

What this is.

[Gideon Long]

No.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

So it's actually the. The swimming bladder of a fish. And then they dry it and once they dry, they deep fry it. That's why it pops up. And we cook that in a soup.

[Gideon Long]

The swimming bladder of a fish.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Of a fish?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes.

[Gideon Long]

Wow.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

We call fish maw. And these are very delicacy for Thai and Chinese food. Which is dried scallop.

[Gideon Long]

Dried scallop. I was Thinking that might be ginger. It's kind of the color of ginger. Little cubes.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

And see, only this small packet is 450baht, which is considered very expensive.

[Gideon Long]

Right. And would you come to this market to buy your dry goods from Podong?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes.

[Gideon Long]

So really you're buying from just around the corner from the restaurant?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Just around the corner. Very convenient.

[Gideon Long]

Now I keep seeing these. Is that a fruit?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes, it's a fruit where people would make into a tea.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Gideon Long]

It kind of looks like a kiwi fruit. I thought they were kiwis.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Almost like a passion fruit also.

[Gideon Long]

Or passion fruit.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes. And people drink it for health benefit. To cool down your body. Duck, chicken, duck and chicken. Yeah. Finally recognize something apart from buying for consumption. They buy it to give to the.

[Gideon Long]

God as an offering.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

As an offering as well. That's why it's cooked already.

[Gideon Long]

So they give ducks as an offering?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes, ducks and all the food for the offerings for their ancestors to eat.

[Gideon Long]

Now what are these?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

These are very old school and very authentic snacks.

[Gideon Long]

Do you think we can try?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes. You cannot find this Bangkok apart from here.

[Gideon Long]

This is the only place in Bangkok you'd find it.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yeah.

[Gideon Long]

Just to describe it, these are little rings about the size of a coin. A large coin with a hole in the middle. And they're green. They're kind of the color of the inside of a kiwi fruit. And they seem to be covered in maybe sesame seeds.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

I'm guessing sesame seeds. Yes.

[Gideon Long]

And so. Okay, and what is the sauce that you're pouring onto them?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Coconut sugar.

[Gideon Long]

Coconut sugar.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Okay, so it's gonna be sweet for sure. And the texture is gonna be soft. I haven't tried this.

[Gideon Long]

It's actually much firmer than I thought.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

We like this kind of texture. It's soft, but then it. There's texture to it, some bite to it.

[Gideon Long]

Really chewy.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yeah. So this is a. A very old school almond milk, Chinese almond milk. It's not like the regular almond milk that you find in the States or somewhere else. It's almond milk made from Chinese almond, which has a very different aroma and taste. I'll have you try it. How? Like that. Wow.

[Gideon Long]

That's amazing. That's a really strong pistachio flavor.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes. Even though it's almond, but it's. The flavor is different from the almond, you know. Right, exactly.

[Gideon Long]

Yeah. For me, that tastes like pistachio. I keep seeing these. What are these? They look like berries, right?

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Berries.

[Grainger Maintenance Supervisor]

Yeah.

[Gideon Long]

Kind of probably about the size of an olive Fact. They look like olives. They look like red olives red olives, slightly dried.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Chinese jujube is like a fruit, so they dry it and they use it in soups and stocks. It gives that natural sweetness to the broth, right? Yeah. I use a lot here also at the restaurant.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Fish. Is that fish? Squid.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Squid, yeah.

[Gideon Long]

So we're standing in front of a table. There are nine huge bowls filled with water and filled with, I guess, seafood. All of them?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

No. Oh, that's squid. And this is duck feet.

[Gideon Long]

Duck's feet, yes.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

And this is bamboo. Dried bamboo.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Dried bamboo.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Dried bamboo. Like this, but then cut into like this. And that's a jellyfish.

[Gideon Long]

So what do you use dried bamboo for in cooking?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

In soups and stir fried.

[Gideon Long]

And tell me, what does dried bamboo taste like?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Earthy. You can feel the earthiness.

[Gideon Long]

Okay. I would say looking at most of the produce that's on sale here, I would be hard pressed to recognize what it was or to tell you what it was.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

So if you're here walking alone, would you dare to buy some of the stuff and taste?

[Gideon Long]

Well, I would, but I would have no idea what I was buying or what to expect in terms of taste.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

This is Business Daily Meats from the BBC World Service.

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[Narrator/Interviewer]

I'm Gideon Long and my guest today was named earlier this year as the best female chef in the world. She's Pichaia Sunton Yanakid, also known as Chef Pam.

[Gideon Long]

So, Pam, it's all very well being a fantastic chef, having fantastic ingredients, but this is also business, right? You have to make it work as a business.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes. So in reality, when I started off this project, it was a passion project where I want to open a restaurant of my dream. So I didn't think much about how much to invest and what's the business concept of it. So when we started to gather money and to invest, the investment grows and grows, and we end up spending more than a million dollars.

[Gideon Long]

A million dollars on the renovation of the building and setting up the restaurant.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes. More than we thought it would be.

[Gideon Long]

And how did you do that? How did you get the money to invest in the project?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Actually, me and my husband, we don't have a lot of savings at that time. So we sold everything, sold the gold, and kind of like bet our lives on this project. And the rest of the capital and the investment comes from my dad. He's the investor.

[Gideon Long]

And is he still an investor?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

He is. He is.

[Gideon Long]

So that's the building. Potong, can we take a tour?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes, let's do a tour. So this building is something very personal to me and to my family, because my ancestor who migrated from China is the one who designed and built the building from ground floor up, 120 years ago.

[Gideon Long]

Wow. So it's been in your family quite a while.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Very long time. And if you see up here, this is all original. The ceiling, it was hidden. So when we opened this up, I was really. I fell in love with the building because you can see all the details.

[Gideon Long]

So this is all original. You have this beautiful wooden ceiling.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes. And you can see the hole in the middle. They used to have this hole, and they kind of like transport the Chinese medicine up and down.

[Gideon Long]

So it was originally a Chinese medicine store.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes, yes.

[Gideon Long]

Let's move on upstairs.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

And you can tell, like, the stairs are original. It's. Well, it's going to get steeper as you go up.

[Gideon Long]

So moving up to the third floor now.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Third floor? Yes. So third floor up is a living space of my ancestor. And it's all original, except from the mirror and the curtain. That's it. But everything else is original.

[Gideon Long]

This is all Chinese script that we can see on the walls here.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes. And I cannot read Chinese, but I asked my grandfather what it reads. So the top there, it means discipline is my ancestor here.

[Gideon Long]

So who is that?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

My ancestor who built the whole building.

[Gideon Long]

Okay.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

And this little guy is my grandfather.

[Gideon Long]

Wow. So that little boy in the photograph who must be only, I don't know, maybe six or seven years old, that's your grandfather?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes, yes.

[Gideon Long]

Okay, so now we're getting into the kitchen. This is where the magic happens.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

This used to be the bedroom, but we turned into A small kitchen.

[Gideon Long]

And now we're going up, up another flight of stairs. The stairs are getting steeper.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

It's almost climbing. But this is not the steepest one yet. This used to be a master bedroom. We turned into a bar.

[Gideon Long]

Are these tiles on the floor, are they original?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

All original. And you can tell it's not Chinese and it's not Thai. It's actually Portuguese because during that time we have a lot of influence from the Portuguese people who come to Thailand.

[Gideon Long]

Another flight of stairs.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

This one we climbing up.

[Gideon Long]

So we're now on the fifth floor and we have a view down over Chinatown.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes.

[Gideon Long]

And how long did it take you to restore this whole building?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Two and a half years. Very long time.

[Gideon Long]

It's beautifully done. So it's a passion project. But it's paid off.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

I think doing business. There's a guide to how to do a successful restaurant. But there's no right or wrong because it's a business that varies from different situation to different situation and from different countries. It has different factors that goes into how to become a successful entrepreneur.

[Gideon Long]

And you're a double act, Right? Your husband is your business manager as well?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes. So actually I'm. I'm just a chef, works in the kitchen.

[Gideon Long]

Well, not just a chef.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

And create dishes and recipes for me. I think there's so many great chefs around the world that cook fabulous food. But not all chef can run a successful and positive restaurant. And that's the hard part. And that's where my husband comes in.

[Gideon Long]

And it's interesting that you've set up here right in the heart of Chinatown and you've done it because this building means so much to you. But it's not where you'd expect to find a Michelin starred restaurant.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

When we tell many people that we're going to open a restaurant right here, many people were very skeptical and they were like, I'm telling you because I love you. I'm warning you, like, don't do this, it's going to be a mistake. Because there's no market for people who want to pay $180 for a meal. It's not a usual place for them.

[Gideon Long]

And how important is the Michelin star in terms of promoting the restaurant?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

It's a big milestone for me. And it's also kind of like a motivation for all of us to push for the second star.

[Gideon Long]

And how much do customers spend on average when they come to Potong?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

So the price of tasting menu at portong is $180. But they can also add on with Their cocktails or pairings. So average is around 2, $250.

[Gideon Long]

And how do you promote the restaurant?

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Do you use social media?

[Gideon Long]

Is it through word of mouth?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

I think word of mouth is great, but it's not enough anymore. So we always, you know, have a budget for marketing embedded in the cost. It's not an extra. It has to be there. Even though we're doing so good in terms of reservation and everything. But that's when you have to promote.

[Gideon Long]

And you have other restaurants here in Bangkok as well, right?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Yes, totally different. I'm a chef and also entrepreneur in other restaurants, but I'm not a head chef there. So every restaurant that we open, we assign head chef there.

[Gideon Long]

Would you ever consider opening restaurants abroad outside Thailand?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

We have contact from many people since last year, but with our goals, maybe not yet, but we never close any doors. So whenever we feel comfortable and wherever we feel ready, we would definitely go abroad. It's very important for me to represent Thailand and show what Thai food is all about.

[Gideon Long]

Do you run any cooking classes?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Actually, no. It's not my forte.

[Gideon Long]

You should share your talent. Sure.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

For me, teaching my staff and my team in the kitchen is already enough, but maybe in the future when I have more time.

[Gideon Long]

And how do you find the chefs who work in your kitchen?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

What I'm looking for when I hire people here and the people who. Who stay with me for a long time is their attitude. I think it's more important than skills because skills you can always teach, but attitude you cannot teach anyone.

[Gideon Long]

Patong is clearly a place that's very close to your heart, very close to your family. Story. Will you remain working at Patong at this site, or can you imagine yourself working elsewhere?

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

I don't think I can work anywhere else anymore. This is my place and my ground. The food here is from my soul and from my inspiration. So I cannot be anywhere else apart from Potom.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Chef Pam there at her restaurant in Bangkok. That's all from this edition of Business Daily with me, Gideon Long. If you enjoyed it, you might want to check out our recent Food chain program on food diplomacy and on how Thailand has used its cuisine to promote itself abroad. Just search for the food chain wherever you get your podcasts.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

So thank you so much for being here. It's such a pleasure to have you.

[Gideon Long]

It's been lovely to visit and it's been lovely to meet you. Thank you so much for the interview.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Thank you.

[Gideon Long]

And all the best with your restaurant.

[Pichaya Sunton Yanakid (Chef Pam)]

Bye. Bye.

[Gideon Long]

Bye.

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