Does getting up early breed success?

Summary

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Business Daily (BBC World Service)

Episode: Does getting up early breed success?

Date: September 3, 2025
Host: Matt Lines
Guests: Merrick Watts (Comedian/CEO), Lauren (Fitness Instructor), Jamie Smith (Ice Bath Café Owner), Anya Meyeritz (Journalist), Shaw MacLean (Assistant Professor of Management, University of Oklahoma)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Matt Lines explores the increasingly popular belief that waking up early — epitomized by the “5am Club” — is the secret to heightened productivity and career success. Embarking on a personal experiment, Matt dives into a week of 4am starts, seeking insights from commuters, fitness enthusiasts, experts, and those who've monetized the morning routine trend. The episode investigates whether early mornings yield tangible professional benefits or are just another self-optimization fad driven by influencer culture and the wellness industry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Rise of the “5am Club” & Early Morning Routines

• Influencer & Celebrity Endorsement

  • Social media influencers widely share tips for 4am/5am routines, presenting a “personal 5 to 9” before the traditional workday begins.
  • High-profile figures like Michelle Obama (4:30am), Jennifer Lopez (4:45am), and Bob Iger (4:00am) are cited as early risers.

    “There’s even a best-selling book called the 5am Club which tries to encourage us all to get up early to maximize our day.” – Matt Lines [03:15]

• Questioning the Hype

  • Despite noisy advocacy, is waking early truly behind professional achievements, or do successful people just have the luxury to shape their schedules?

    “Sometimes the reverse is true, that the success allows the person to engage in the routine.” – Shaw MacLean [01:50 & 17:07]

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Matt Lines' 4am Experiment: Field Notes

• Routine Breakdown

  • Brushing teeth, press-ups, breathing exercises, journaling, reading, and the now-trendy ice water facial dunking (inspired by influencer Ashton Hall).

    “All right, here we go. That’s quite cold.” – Matt Lines (after the ice water dip) [05:12]

• Outcomes

  • Initial productivity boost: Feelings of accomplishment, energy, and enhanced focus, especially earlier in the week.

    “Every day I’ve ticked off the entire list. So I think there is something to this maybe.” – Matt Lines [14:38]

  • Fatigue sets in: By Thursday/Friday, exhaustion grows, and productivity declines.

    “Yesterday was my least productive day of the week. I didn't finish my to do list as I have done all the rest of the week.” – Matt Lines [17:50]

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Perspectives from Guests & Practitioners

Merrick Watts – Comedian, CEO, Early Riser

• Routine Highlights: Wakes “around about 20 to 5” (4:40am), drinks water, takes a cold shower, walks the dog, then does physical activity before work.
• Motivation: Enjoys the “mental win” of getting up before others, paying himself time first.

  “I’d like to be a member of the club that’s before the 5am Club so I get that kind of mental win...” – Merrick Watts [06:25]

• Perceived Benefit:

  “When you carve out that time in the morning you kind of pay yourself first… I just feel like I am the best version of myself going into my workday.” – Merrick Watts [06:52]

Lauren – Fitness Instructor

• Routine: Alarm at 4:45am, coffee, leads morning exercise classes.
• Community Effect: Finds peer support and accountability motivating; early activity creates a pre-work “buzz”.

  “You do feel good. It’s so true. When you move your body and you’re up before everyone else… you’ve got a wee buzz about you.” – Lauren [07:47 and 10:25]

Jamie Smith – Ice Bath Café Owner

• Describes the popularity of early ice bath sessions as part of a growing wellness trend; regulars jumpstart their day before work with “run clubs” and recovery dips.

Anya Meyeritz – Journalist

• Industry Critique: Early-rising routines have spawned a market of “optimization products” — specialty journals, ice rollers, and high-end self-care items — which may be unnecessary.

  “There’s no real difference between that [an ice rollerball] and getting a cube of ice made with tap water from your freezer and putting it on your face.” – Anya Meyeritz [12:31]

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Insights from Academic Research

Shaw MacLean – Management Professor

• Routines = Automation: The true benefit lies in automating minor decisions, freeing mental energy for meaningful work.

  “The benefit of a routine comes from automating things that really aren’t that important so that we can focus our energy… on things that really matter.” – Shaw MacLean [15:26]

• Role of Employers: Encourages workplace respect for personal routines, noting disruption can lead to anxiety and reduced productivity.

  “Those employees end up at work more anxious, more mentally drained, and they are less productive that day.” – Shaw MacLean [16:47]

• Privilege & Context: Early starts work best for those with schedule autonomy; don’t assume suitability for all professions/lifestyles.

  “[Waking up early] doesn’t necessarily work when people have other things such as maybe child care responsibilities or are working multiple jobs…” – Shaw MacLean [17:07]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• [01:19] Merrick Watts: “There’s a lot of high achievers in the 5am Club. I’d like to be a member of the club that’s before the 5am Club.”
• [06:25] Merrick Watts: “I’d like to be a member of the club that’s before the 5am Club so I get that kind of mental win…meeting the day before a standard that other people would aspire to.”
• [10:25] Lauren: “I always say Wednesday is the day I have like the most energy at work.”
• [12:31] Anya Meyeritz: “[On expensive wellness products] There’s no real difference between that and getting a cube of ice made with tap water from your freezer and putting it on your face.”
• [15:26] Shaw MacLean: “The benefit of a routine comes from automating things that really aren’t that important so that we can focus our energy… on things that really matter.”
• [17:07] Shaw MacLean: “The success allows the person to engage in the routine…people at the upper echelons of the economy might be more allowed, have greater autonomy to wake up.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:09] – Introduction and framing of episode
• [01:19-03:15] – Social media influence, celebrity routines, the rise of 5am/4am clubs
• [05:24] – Matt’s first day on the 4am routine (includes ice water facial experience)
• [05:30-07:13] – Interview with Merrick Watts on his early routine and motivations
• [07:20-08:17] – By 4am at an early morning exercise class with fitness instructor Lauren
• [10:13-11:00] – Joining a 5am run club in Manchester
• [11:14-11:52] – Visit to an ice bath café; integration with wellness trends
• [12:31-13:54] – Analysis of the ‘optimization’ industry with journalist Anya Meyeritz
• [15:26-17:45] – Expert commentary from Prof. Shaw MacLean on routines, productivity and privilege
• [18:37] – Matt’s week-long reflection and conclusion

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Conclusion: Does Getting Up Early Breed Success?

• Personal Takeaway: For Matt, early mornings boosted productivity on some days but weren’t sustainable long-term due to fatigue.

  “For now I’ve decided to switch off that 4am alarm.” – Matt Lines [18:37]

• Broader Takeaways:

  • Some people thrive on early routines, reporting improved mood and efficiency.
  • For many, the routine itself (not necessarily its timing or content) is what creates focus and supports productivity.
  • Influencer & Wellness Hype: Beware of commercialization — you don’t need expensive tools to benefit from structure.
  • Caveat: Not everyone can (or should) adopt extreme early starts. Flexibility and personal context matter most.

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Final Thought

Early rising might help some people feel more productive and focused, but it isn’t a universal success formula. The value comes more from routine, intention, and self-awareness, rather than the hour on the clock. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own habits and experiment to find what genuinely serves their productivity and well-being.

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Listener prompt:
Are you an early riser? Has it helped your work or well-being? Share your story by emailing [e-mail].

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Transcript

[BBC Announcer]

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[Matt Lines]

I love ravioli. Since when do you speak Italian?

[SAP Concur Representative]

Since we partnered with SAP Concur. Their integrated travel and expense platform and breakthrough solutions with AI gave me time back to dive into our financial future. We expand into Europe in 2027 so I'm getting ready.

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Well, you can predict the future.

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What message? Oh hey, we all got bonuses.

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You can save for college now.

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I don't have kids. You don't say SAP Concur helps your business move forward faster.

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[Matt Lines]

Hello and welcome to Business Daily from the BBC World Service. I'm Matt Lines and today I'm asking Does having an early morning routine make you more productive?

[Merrick Watts]

There's a lot of high achievers in the 5am Club. I'd like to be a member of the club that's before the 5:00am Club so I get that kind of mental win that I'm up before the standard that other people would aspire to.

[Matt Lines]

You might have seen it online social media influencers sharing their morning routines before work. Some start as early as 4 or 5am, turning those hours into their personal 5 to 9 before their traditional 9 to 5 grind. There's even a 5am club inspired by the habits of very successful people. But does waking up that early actually make us better at work?

[Shaw MacLean]

This argument that a strong long routine, especially in the influencer culture, is great for productivity, is great for performance, will make somebody successful, when actually sometimes the reverse is true, that the success allows the person to engage in the routine.

[Matt Lines]

It's not just about getting up early. There's a whole industry of how to optimize your morning routine with supplements, journals and beauty products.

[Anya Meyeritz]

We are seeing lots of businesses and products that are now popping up specifically around that early morning routine that have led it, I think, to feel all almost a bit less authentic.

[Matt Lines]

And against my better judgment, I've signed up to a week of 4am starts meeting those for whom this is a way of life. 5:00am because nobody else is doing it. And once you start something, especially early in the morning when you attack the day, the energy is high, the vibe is high. Is an early morning routine good for productivity or is it all just hype? That's coming up on today's Business Daily. Today I thought I would bring you along on one of my very early mornings and share some tips and tricks on how I became a part of not the 5am but the 4am club. There are a lot of 5am morning routines, 6am morning routines, but here is a productive 4am morning routine. This sort of content will often provoke either admiration or derision. How committed are you to self improvement both personally and in your job? A host of famous names subscribe to early starts to get ahead of the day. Michelle Obama's alarm is set for 4:30am Jennifer Lopez is 4:45. Bob Iger, CEO of Disney, reportedly wakes up at 4:00am there's even a best selling book called the 5:00am Club which tries to encourage us all to get up early to maximize our day. But this trend really caught my attention when videos posted by life coach Ashton hall went viral. Ashton, a former college American football player, has millions of followers across Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, all watching videos of his 4am starts where he meditates exercises and most famously dunks his face in bowls of icy water.

[Matt Lines (Narrating his routine)]

The eyes.

[Matt Lines]

It's helped my skin.

[Matt Lines (Narrating his routine)]

It helps me wake up. I feel like I've had two espresso shots after I do it.

[Matt Lines]

So when I suggested making this program to my editors, guess who got volunteered to spend the week doing his own 4am morning routine. I'm interested to find out how I'll feel and how it will affect my productivity at work.

[Matt Lines (Narrating his routine)]

Morning everyone. It's 4am on Monday and I'm going to start my routine. It's going to be a rough approximation of what Ashton hall does. So it begins with brushing my teeth, doing some press ups, doing some breathing exercises. So bring you along, right, with teeth done, press ups done. So now into the next, which is doing some breathing exercises and journaling and doing some reading. It's now 5am that noise you can hear there is my ice machine whirring away to do the next part of this morning routine, which is to dunk my face in a bowl of ice water. All right, here we go. That's quite cold.

[Matt Lines]

Okay, so that's day one out of the way. Let's hear from one of those champions of this lifestyle, Matt.

[Merrick Watts]

I usually wake up at around about 20 to 5.

[Matt Lines]

That's Merrick Watts, Australian comedian and founder and CEO of Drinks Posca Hydrate.

[Merrick Watts]

The first thing I do actually is I rehydrate myself. I take on probably about half a litre of water. Then the next thing I do is I found that I actually really enjoy a three minute cold shower. When I say enjoy I mean I hate it, I abhor it. But what I do enjoy is the sensation and the feeling that I have after I get out of that freezing cold shower and begin my day. Typically I'll go and take my dog for a walk with my wife. So we're probably around about 5am now, then I will return to my home and I'm probably by about 6:30, before 7:00 at least I do one hour of intense physical activity. So this brings me to around about 7, 7:30 when I will typically start work.

[Matt Lines]

When did this routine, getting up early and doing all of that before you start your working day, when did that begin for you as a habit?

[Merrick Watts]

It's probably been a habit for a few years. Matt, I read you know about the 5am Club and I was aware of them anyway. But I don't necessarily want to be a member of the 5am Club. I'd like to be a member of the club that's before the 5:00am Club. So I get that kind of mental win that I' up before the standard I'm meeting the day before. A standard that other people would aspire to.

[Matt Lines]

Have you found you are far more productive? Has it helped your business that you've been doing this?

[Merrick Watts]

Absolutely, without doubt. Because I think what happens is when you carve out that time in the morning you kind of pay yourself first and so now I can move into my work with flow and focus and I just feel like I am the best version of myself going into my workday and I feel like that is the best example I can have as a leader and as a workmate.

[Matt Lines]

With Merrick's words and motivations ringing in my ears, let's see how I get on day two of my 4am week.

[Matt Lines (Narrating his routine)]

Morning everyone. It's Tuesday. It is 4am this morning. I'm off to an exercise class.

[BBC Announcer]

Have a good day.

[Matt Lines]

And inside the studio, our tribe is rows and rows of of treadmills, rows and rows of benches, yoga mats ready for people to come and take their first class of the day with Lauren.

[Lauren (Fitness Instructor)]

People just love it. They start the day with obviously pushing themselves out the comfort zone. I think that's what they love. It sets them up for the day. They've done the hard thing first. 4:45 is my alarm. So coffee straight away and then, yeah, just get into the studio. It's just definitely early. But I. I love coming here in general, the culture. I got most days early and try hit the gym before work. I don't. You do feel good. It's so true. When you move your body and you're up before everyone else and up before the birds, you've got a wee buzz about you. Yeah. I see all these other girls and even today I'm like, oh, I should film a TikTok. It'll make me more productive.

[Matt Lines]

Early morning exercise class done. Nice to hear why people do it. I'm off now to get some breakfast and start some work and see if that all makes me a bit more productive today. You're listening to Business Daily from the BBC World.

[SAP Concur Representative]

Hey, let's talk about your expense report.

[Matt Lines]

I didn't submit an expense report.

[SAP Concur Representative]

You will. Custom saddles and dog training services are not within policy.

[Matt Lines]

What are you talking about?

[SAP Concur Representative]

SAP Concur uses advanced AI to audit and automatically detect out of policy expenses. It's the breakthrough I needed to focus more on our future.

[Matt Lines]

These are my future expenses.

[Anya Meyeritz]

Yes.

[SAP Concur Representative]

And self defense classes are out of policy.

[Matt Lines]

I'll need self defense classes.

[SAP Concur Representative]

You will?

[Lauren (Fitness Instructor)]

For what? It's a big dog.

[Matt Lines]

SAP Concur helps your business move forward faster.

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[Matt Lines]

I'm Matt Lynes finding out if early morning routines are good for productivity.

[Matt Lines (Narrating his routine)]

Morning everyone. It's Wednesday, it's 4am but this morning is slightly different. There's no time to put my face in a bowl of ice water or journal or do any breathing exerc as I'm heading straight out to meet the people who gather very early in the morning for a 5am run club in Manchester. Every week.

[Matt Lines]

It'S 5am why are you.

[Matt Lines (Narrating his routine)]

Here for a struggle?

[Lauren (Fitness Instructor)]

Honestly, it's peer pressure. We text each other when the alarm goes off at 4:20. And do you feel like a bit.

[Matt Lines]

Crazy once you've done this? You're more productive in your day?

[Lauren (Fitness Instructor)]

Yeah, I always say Wednesday is the day I have like the most energy at work. I feel like I've got up like two Hours earlier than usual. I feel like it just starts the day off right. Yeah, definitely better habits as well. Yeah.

[Matt Lines]

How was that? Yeah, really good.

[Matt Lines (Narrating his routine)]

Hot but yeah, really good.

[Lauren (Fitness Instructor)]

Yeah, really good. As you could tell by the redness on my face, I'm exhausted.

[Matt Lines]

So do you think you'll be more productive at work? Do you think you'll get more done? Yeah, I definitely think so. Yeah, I think it really helps cuz just start your day early while raring to go.

[Lauren (Fitness Instructor)]

I like get in the office. By the time people are coming in at like 9 o', clock, quarter past, I'm saying good morning. I'm like it's pretty much lunchtime for me.

[Matt Lines]

Right, well that's the morning run done. I'm now going to head across town to somewhere that's become a bit more of a modern phenomenon and take a dip into an ice bath.

[Matt Lines (Narrating his routine)]

Nice.

[Jamie Smith]

Well done. Okay, how's that feeling?

[Matt Lines (Narrating his routine)]

Oh, it's cold.

[Jamie Smith]

My name is Jamie Smith, I run Contrast which is the Storm and Ice Bath Cafe in Manchester. We have a small amount of people who come every day but yeah we do. We are popular in the first sessions, the 6:30am session we get quite popular. It's normally, you know, 10, 12 people in here and then we have a run club as well where you know, you go for a run and then you get going to someone a nice bath and stuff like that. But yeah, 100% we get people coming in, doing a 45 minute session before work, coming out, grabbing a coffee and heading to work and hopefully feeling a little bit better.

[Matt Lines]

Right, I'm out of the ice bath now and I'm going to head into the saa. It's a bit warm in there so I won't bring you in. The thing about these morning routines is it's not just about getting up early and doing things you enjoy. It's also about so called self optimization and there's a whole industry that goes along with that. All part of the ever growing wellness trend. Supplements, ice baths, journals, beauty masks are all marketed towards those looking to an early alarm and routine as a way of becoming the best version of themselves. And this is something I put to UK based journalist Anya Meyeritz.

[Anya Meyeritz]

When I first started doing it, I would do what I would now probably call journaling. I would take a cube of ice and rub a cube of ice on my face. If I think about those two very simple and free things that I started doing then and I now think about, you know, there's a product that I know lots of my friends have bought that is kind of an ice rollerball and it comes in pot and you keep it in the freezer and you use that to ice your face. There's no real difference between that and getting a cube of ice made with tap water from your freezer and putting it on your face. But now there's a product that we feel we need to have in order to tick that off. Same with journaling. There are now all these journals that have been developed that are specifically around morning routine and they have to do list section, a thought section, a mindfulness section, a big goal section, a small goal section. And I think that we feed into that that if we don't have these things, we're not going to be doing it correctly, we're not going to be optimizing it correctly. And because the 5am Club or the 4am Club is all about optimizing your day, optimizing your mindset, optimizing your life, it's very easy then to sort of see, oh, okay, well I'm not going to be optimizing it properly unless I get this journal that's going to guide me through it. Unless I'm going to get a pop up infrared sauna in my garden. Unless I'm going to get a portable ice bath, which I caveat to say that I have one and I've bought into several of these things as I've gone along.

[Matt Lines (Narrating his routine)]

Good morning everyone. It's Thursday. It's 4am Again and I have slinked off into our spare room so as to not wake up everyone up. Let's do my morning routine today. After all the excitement of yesterday, it's just going to be back to brushing my teeth, putting my face in a bowl of ice water, doing some breathing exercises and then I thought I'd get my money's worth out of the gym membership I already pay for and head to an early morning gym class. That's my morning. I'm feeling a bit tired today. I what I will say is this week I have felt more productive than I felt before. I felt immediately productive when I get to work. I've also every day I've been writing a to do list down of things to do, even things that have been nagging me to do for weeks that I've been thinking and putting off. And every day I've ticked off the entire list. So I think there is something to this maybe.

[Matt Lines]

So is this all worth it? Does it make us more productive? Should you be setting that early alarm so you can give your best at work and do Your all for self care first thing in the morning, or is it just influencers trying to make themselves seem better than the rest of us? Various studies into this phenomenon, including a widely quoted 2009 paper by Harvard biologist Christoph Randler, have found that people whose performance peaks in the morning stand more of a chance of career success. Shaw MacLean is Assistant professor of Management at the University of Oklahoma.

[Shaw MacLean]

The benefit of a routine comes from automating things that really aren't that important so that we can focus our energy, our mental effort, on things that really matter. So rather than making a ton of little micro decisions throughout the morning, such as what to have for breakfast, what route to take to work, we tend to fall into a pattern of doing the same things over and over again so we don't even have to think about them anymore. And what that does is let us focus our mental energy on the things that really matter when we get to work.

[Matt Lines]

What is best for productivity in the workplace? If you're a boss, should you want your workers, your employees to be doing these extensive morning routines?

[Shaw MacLean]

I think at this point we need to distinguish between the existence of a routine and the content of a routine. So the existence of a routine is just do we do a certain pattern of things over and over again that let us focus on work that really matters? That's where the benefit really lies. I'm not going to say that there's anything wrong with certain activities, meditating, exercising each morning. Certainly that works for some people. What a manager should be focused on is making sure employees can, whatever their routine is, enact that routine. So this means making sure, to the extent possible, not interrupting them in the morning. I've done some research on the negative effects of what happens when employees routines are disrupted and those employees end up at work more anxious, more mentally drained, and they are less productive that day.

[Matt Lines]

And in terms of these 4:00am 5:00am start routines, these only work in certain sectors of the economy.

[Shaw MacLean]

We will have the routine that works for us. But getting up at 4am doesn't necessarily work when people have other things such as maybe child care responsibilities or are working multiple jobs or a job with a set schedule. I think what we tend to see is this argument that a strong long routine, especially in the influencer culture, is great for productivity, is great for performance, will make somebody successful, when actually sometimes the reverse is true, that the success allows the person to engage in the routine, that the people at the upper echelons of the economy might be more allowed, have greater autonomy to wake up.

[Matt Lines (Narrating his routine)]

At 4am Morning everyone, it's 4am on Friday morning. It was quite hard to get out of bed this morning. I was quite tired yesterday. Yesterday was my least productive day of the week. I didn't finish my to do list as I have done all the rest of the week. I'm going to do my usual thing this morning, but having listened to what Merrick said, I'm going to adapt my regime and add a bit of beauty self care to it. One of my colleagues has kindly let me her infrared face mask, which is a face mask that blasts infrared light into your face, which is meant to make your skin look better. So I'm going to wear that whilst doing some breathing exercises. And because I can feel my body aching a little bit after the week of workouts, I'm going to do a bit of yoga.

[Matt Lines]

And that concluded my week. Was I more productive overall? I'd say yes. On three out of the five days, I completed my to do lists and felt like I achieved more than I would in a usual day. As the week went on, I'd say the lack of sleep and the sudden ramping up of exercise started to hit me and dwindle my energy supplies. I think the key question is, do you need these routines to be successful or are you able to do these routines by being successful? And I think, well, for me it has inspired me to add the odd run or gym session before I come to work to my routine. But for now I've decided to switch off that 4am alarm and that's it from today's Business Daily. It was produced and presented by me, Matt Lines. We'd love to hear from you about this. Are you an early riser? Do you think it makes you more productive or have you tried it and it wasn't for you? Email the programme business dailybc.co.uk and remember, you can listen to more episodes of Business Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks to all my guests and thanks to you for listening.