Megan Lawton (1:08)

Hello and welcome to Business Daily on the BBC World Service. I'm Megan Lawton.

Sarah (1:14)

Today we grew up watching our parents live a comfortable life and that's just not a reality for us anymore. And this new era in the market, it's really hard to get a full time position.

Megan Lawton (1:30)

Has Gen Z lost the will to work?

Narrator/Advertiser (1:33)

Younger Americans are experiencing what they call peak stress and they're experiencing it earlier than anyone. People think, oh, these kids are so.

Sarah (1:40)

Burned out, they're just lazy.

Advertiser/Voiceover (1:41)

It's like, no, they're working 40 hours.

Narrator/Advertiser (1:43)

A week but at the end of.

Advertiser/Voiceover (1:44)

The month they have nothing to show for it.

Megan Lawton (1:45)

There's been a lot said recently about Gen Z feeling burned out in the workplace. On this edition, we're trying to find out why. From differing approaches to careers, Gen Z.

Jordan Travers (1:56)

Is going to ask questions and they're going to ask why.

Megan Lawton (1:59)

To why those in this generation born in the late 1990s to early 2000s are feeling the threat of technology.

Sarah (2:07)

We need.

Dr. Eliza Philby (2:07)

Despite what AI enthusiasts tell you, we need people more than ever.

Megan Lawton (2:12)

And hearing from the bosses trying to motivate a generation, businesses need to harness.

Narrator/Advertiser (2:17)

The power of Gen Z. You know, they're an incredibly inspired and ready to go generation.

Megan Lawton (2:22)

Shouldn't that's coming up on Business Daily. We're starting with a scroll through TikTok. On this app alone, there are over 84 million posts about burnout. From what it sounds like, we need.

Jordan Travers (2:38)

To shower, we have to get up.

Megan Lawton (2:41)

To the symptoms and statistics.

Sarah (2:44)

If you are miserable at your job, you're not alone. 98% of Gen Z is burned out by a new report.

Megan Lawton (2:49)

Pause Beneath this TikTok from Anti work girlboss, I saw a comment from Sarah which said, the main issue is that we're working just as hard as previous generations, but we can't afford anything they used to. To which someone called Claudia responded, this is so true. So I got in touch with them.

Sarah (3:08)

My name is Sarah. I am 27 years old living in the United States. I live in the Chicagoland area and I am a personal trainer. Hi, I'm Claudia.

Jordan Travers (3:18)

I'm.

Sarah (3:19)

I'm 28 years old and I am based in Canada and I'm currently in an administrative role. I think the main reason why me and my friends experience burnout is because we grew up watching our parents live a comfortable life and that's just not a reality for us anymore. So, for example, my father started a job when he was 18 and he was just a security guard and that company paid for him to get his engineering degree, his bachelor's degree, and they paid it in full. And he worked for that job for his entire life. He worked there for 45 years and he was able to retire comfortably from that company. And what we're seeing now in the workforce is that companies are not incentivizing us to stay there. And that's a lot of the reason why me and my friends experience burnout is because we work hard for a company and at the end of the year we get a raise. And that raise is either matching inflation or not even matching inflation. So AI is something I've been thinking a lot about recently and I feel like at first it was sort of like this new idea and it was really exciting, but we see more and more of it, especially with ChatGPT. That's been taking over a lot this year. Even I've been using it. And I've also seen a lot of people using AI for, let's say, creating caption for social media. I personally would love to work in social media and I would be scared to lose a job or lose certain tasks to this. So if a manager just decides to generate all of their Instagram content and caption online, it could affect certain roles.

Megan Lawton (5:20)

Last year, a survey from accounting firm Deloitte found about half of Gen Z's rate their mental health as good or extremely good. About a third of respondents said their job and their work life balance contributed to stress levels alongside financial concerns and job related factors.

Narrator/Advertiser (5:38)

Such as?

Megan Lawton (5:39)

Such as long working hours and lack of recognition.

Sarah (5:42)

Our wages are not keeping up with inflation.

Megan Lawton (5:45)

So back to Sarah.

Sarah (5:46)

While our parents were able to afford vacations and afford homes as simple as homes were not able to experience those types of rewards.

Megan Lawton (5:58)

If you look in the comment sections of some tiktoks, there's almost a sentiment that Jen said are too self aware. What do you make of that?

Sarah (6:06)

I think that they are just not having empathy for this generation and I think that's a huge thing that is dividing the older generation and the younger generation is the lack of empathy for the situation. You know, it's always hard when you're younger. Obviously when you start out at a job or you start out in the workforce, you're going to be making less money. And so older generations see us struggling and they say, well, well I struggled too. You have to work harder. And that's a valid point. But they're not looking at the statistics and they're not looking at the numbers of how insane the wage gap has gotten from when they were first entering the workforce. And I would love to just work harder at my job and be paid and people my generations, I currently have two jobs, I'm looking for a third. I have friends who also have multiple jobs. And I don't think it's fair to compare your work ethic when the previous generations were working hard at one job. And my generation has to work multiple jobs and work hard at multiple jobs just to reap the same benefits that they did.

Megan Lawton (7:17)

Claudia and Sarah with some of the reasons why Gen Z are struggling.

Jordan Travers (7:22)

There's been this shift. Instead of just maths and science, it's okay, well what's your social and emotional well being looking like? How do we attend to that?

Megan Lawton (7:34)

Jordan Travers is a psychologist and clinical director at Awake Therapy in New Jersey in the US she's been exploring why some in this generation struggle at work, including the impact of how they were raised.

Jordan Travers (7:48)

Previous generations. My family, my parents are boomers. They were not having their parents were not having those conversations with them and those weren't the expectations relayed to them. And so a common denominator that often goes undiscussed with burnout is unrealistic expectations.

Megan Lawton (8:12)

Jordan is a millennial and says the way younger generations are raised to think that the job world is their oyster and their well being a top priority has built somewhat unrealistic expectations.

Jordan Travers (8:24)

Not only unrealistic expectations for the person in it maybe of unrealistic expectations on what the criteria are to be promoted to move up the corporate or hierarchical ladder or how to position ourselves to propel ourselves forward professionally.

Megan Lawton (8:47)

Of course we can't stereotype a whole generation, But Jordan points out Gen Z tend to be more self aware and take mental health seriously. A study by the American Psychological association found Gen Z are the most comfortable discussing their mental health. For example, one in three say they've posted about it on social media. But these values, Jordan says, can clash with workplaces that still prioritize productivity over well being.

Jordan Travers (9:16)

I think that's a challenge when you perhaps grow up in an environment or a culture or you attend school in an environment where social emotional well being is taken into consideration. But if you're stepping into a corporate office or organization, you're going to be working with people not just from different cultures and societies, but from different decades right Generational time periods.

Megan Lawton (9:41)

Gen Z adults in the UK spend an average of more than six hours a day online. That's according to a recent report by the UK media regulator Ofcom. It's significantly longer than other age groups and and with a heightened awareness of what burnout is, thanks to social media, Jordan believes they're more likely to self.

Jordan Travers (10:01)

Diagnose right if I'm on a screen, if I spend a significant amount of time on different social media applications and I'm seeing different, you know, memes or reels talking about these frustrations, I'm going that's going to impact me, that's going to have an effect on me and how I show up or maybe how I see and evaluate my professional environment. That is also going to contribute, can contribute to someone's level of burnout and how they're feeling. Just going into the office, you're listening.

Megan Lawton (10:39)

To Business Daily on the BBC World Service.

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Megan Lawton (12:23)

I'm Megan Lawton Today Has Gen Z Lost the Will to work? There are plenty of studies that can be found online about burnout and Gen.

Sarah (12:33)

Z 23% of young workers are saying that they're dealing with unmanageable stress. I can't find a true definition for unmanageable stress.

Megan Lawton (12:40)

I've been a study from 2022 has gained a lot of attention on TikTok. It's from US health insurance firm Cigna.

Sarah (12:48)

And suggests 98% of Gen Z is burned out by a new report.

Megan Lawton (12:52)

They surveyed close to 12,000 people aged 18 to 65 in 15 countries, including China, India, Kenya, the US and UK.

Sarah (13:03)

And 48% said they feel drained, compared.

Jordan Travers (13:05)

To just 40% of their older colleagues.

Sarah (13:07)

Retweet on that.

Megan Lawton (13:08)

But Gen Z workers haven't been spared criticism either. A third of hiring managers in the US said recent college graduates lack work ethic. That's according to a recent survey by online education magazine Intelligent. And even Hollywood actors have been having a go with Oscar winner Jodie Foster complaining last year to the Guardian, a UK newspaper, that Gen zers don't show up to work until 10:30 in the morning.

Narrator/Advertiser (13:33)

They didn't appear to be as motivated to impress or engage in in the way millennials might.

Megan Lawton (13:39)

We got this voice note from a millennial employee who manages several Gen Zs. We revoiced his words.

Narrator/Advertiser (13:46)

I feel like they're skeptical of traditional work culture or the old school work ethic. There's this anti rat race rhetoric and you can make money on TikTok, whereas millennials trust in big corporations. So we're trying to embody the keen be. Whereas I think from the experience I've had there have been so many Gen Z people who are like, what can I get out of this and they're just a bit reluctant to kind of work hard, climb the ladder as previous generations are. I just kind of witnessed it in them being a nightmare to work with.

Megan Lawton (14:18)

I wanted to get the take of someone who was both Gen Z and a boss.

Narrator/Advertiser (14:22)

Yes. So I'm Oliver Hodgson, I'm the founder and managing director of a communications agency called PlatinumLive and a gen Z consultant to public and private sector organisations.

Megan Lawton (14:32)

Oliver set up his business in the UK's Lake District in 2020 and now manages a team of seven. It's important to note he's 21 and the youngest in the office.

Narrator/Advertiser (14:44)

Yeah, there's a lot of generation bashing that goes on and that's happened for decades and decades where the older generation blames the younger generation for being lazier, more disrespectful, work shy, etc, etc. This isn't, that isn't a new argument, so to speak. To speak. But with Gen Z, I agree. So they've spent years and years, kind of the past five years not really being exposed to real life office environments and that, you know, when they enter them or when they enter kind of real life outside of a phone, it can come as quite a shock to them. They actually also have been exposed to the good, the bad, the ugly in terms of workplaces. So I don't know about you Megan, but if I'm scrolling my TikTok, I am seeing people ranting about where they work and how their boss has done this to them or, or they've had to leave this company because they haven't supported them when they've been really ill with their mental health. I, as a boss and I have my own team, that's certainly not something that I stand by at all. I think mental health is very much, you know, a topic which should be discussed in the workplace and you should support your employees with it.

Megan Lawton (15:42)

Employee welfare, he says, is at the center of his business.

Narrator/Advertiser (15:46)

I just try to kind of create a culture where everyone feels supported and valued no matter where they come from, how excited, experience they are or what their age is. We're all part of the same team and we're doing the same job within reason. And I think for me it's about supporting them through whatever life throws at them. And I just always like to listen. I'm quite, I would actually admit, like I'm quite vulnerable with my own mental health in the office to a certain extent, of course, and I feel comfortable doing that with my team and you know, there might be some people Listening who think, oh, no, no, no, you know, a leader is not meant to do that. And I actually think, no, you are. You're meant to lead with purpose.

Megan Lawton (16:20)

Oliver's top tip for helping avoid burnout is aimed at bosses. He says they should clearly communicate company culture and job expectations to Gen Z's before hiring them.

Narrator/Advertiser (16:31)

So when they're entering those job interviews and when they're applying for these jobs, they want to know that. So they're coming to interviews locked and loaded with questions about your culture, you know, about your people and your, your policies and your, how you run your HR and people team. And sometimes I guess that can catch people off guard, you know, especially businesses who are new to hiring younger people. I think where when they often, you know, make mistakes is when they look at apprentices as, oh, they're right at the beginning of the career. They're there to make the coffees and teas. Well, no, we're not in 1990, no more. That is not what you should be thinking. I think a challenge is Gen Z hit also being disrespected, you know, like, like look down upon because they're younger, you know, yes, okay, they're less experienced than their older employees, but they come with this fresh set of eyes and this fresh perspective, and that is always important no matter how old somebody is.

Megan Lawton (17:22)

Gen Z boss, Oliver Hodgson. So what else can workplaces do to make the most of their younger staff?

Dr. Eliza Philby (17:29)

We need, despite what AI enthusiasts tell you, we need people more than ever. We just need them doing different things.

Megan Lawton (17:37)

Dr. Eliza Philby is a generational researcher who advises companies on managing and recruiting people in their 20s.

Dr. Eliza Philby (17:44)

So you've got a very different generation coming through. You've also got a generation that is coming into the workplace at a very, as I said, intense time. They may have used AI in their A levels or their GCSEs, but they certainly definitely beginning to use it in the application process and definitely in the workplace, albeit surreptitiously. So you want to harness that enthusiasm around AI and that nativity that they may have around generative AI.

Megan Lawton (18:09)

Dr. Eliza, who is a millennial and based in London, advises a broad range of companies, from banks to pharmaceutical firms.

Dr. Eliza Philby (18:18)

They are much more skeptical and realistic compared to millennials who perhaps entered a workplace where they were told, find your passion and that pathway to professional security will be there. Well, that dream hasn't really materialized. And I think that you've also got a generation in Gen Z who are unique because they've had a smartphone in their pocket since they were 13. They've had access to the world' which means they're very hard to impress. There's a decline of deference there. They've also had access to the world's marketplace. So they are natural entrepreneurs, but have a very different attitude towards money wages and obviously have been raised in a cashless society. So there's a level of skepticism around this idea of your job is your only job or certainly shouldn't be your only form of income. You've seen an increasing number of gen zers invest in the stock market, increasing number of gen zers having a side hustle and sort of really recognizing that the secret to building wealth is a much more fluid attitude towards money rather than a fixed approach to wages.

Megan Lawton (19:21)

Dr. Eliza Philby speaking to me from London. We're ending this episode with personal trainer Sarah. Sarah, if bosses are listening to this, what's your message to them about why they should employ Gen Z? What do your generation bring to the office?

Sarah (19:38)

I think that with more Gen Z entering the workforce, I think the workforce in general is going to be just a more positive space with mental health. I think Gen Z is a lot more aware of mental health and so they're able to have more empathy and understanding with the rest of their employees and with their staff. And I think that's going to be a really positive change.

Megan Lawton (20:02)

Thank you to Sarah and to all, all of my guests. You've been listening to Business Daily on the BBC World Service with me, Megan Lawton. This episode was produced by Sam Gruy and you can find more episodes wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

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