Is France failing its older workers?

Summary

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Business Daily – “Is France failing its older workers?”

Podcast: BBC World Service – Business Daily
Host: John Laurenson
Date: September 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode investigates the challenges faced by older workers in France, a country with some of the worst employment statistics for older age groups in the developed world. The episode delves into systemic ageism in employment, the personal stories of jobseekers, and innovative approaches by employers and government initiatives to combat age discrimination. The show combines personal testimony, expert advice, and best-practice examples to paint a detailed picture of the landscape for workers aged 50 and over in France.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Scope of the Problem: Statistical and Cultural Context

[02:24 – 03:11]

• France has particularly poor employment rates for older workers. Only 60% of those aged 55-64 are employed (vs. 71% in the UK), and just 39% in the 60-64 range (vs. 57% in the UK).
• The societal view of aging and work has shifted: “We are a long way from ancient Greece where the senior was a wise person, a knowledgeable person.” (C, 02:55)
• Employers and society often view older workers as less flexible, more costly, and incompatible with younger teams.

2. Lived Experiences: Geraldine’s Job Search

[04:32 – 09:04]

• Geraldine Cocon, 55, has an extensive career in marketing and communication, but after returning to France in 2020, she has been unable to secure a position.
• Barriers she identified:
  • Perceived inflexibility and salary expectations
  • Discomfort from having a younger boss: “Most of them are not confident with working with somebody older than they are. And I should say I was the same when I used to work abroad. So now I can see the problem.” (B, 05:21)
  • Thousands of applications with very few interviews, often filtered out by recruitment algorithms based on age.
  • “You have the first selection, which is the AI... you can't get the interview because the AI just don’t show up your CV.” (B, 07:08)
• Emotional impact: “So bad. I’m sorry. Of course, each time you have to overcome this kind of rejection. I mean, one month you are 55 and you don’t fit with the team for one month.” (B, 08:50)

3. Systemic Age Discrimination and Public Policy Response

[09:04 – 12:38]

• Age discrimination is technically illegal, but a government study found applicants aged 48-55 were three times less likely to be called back than those aged 23-30.
• Language matters: Minister of Work Astrid Panosyan-Bouvet prefers “experienced worker” or “50 plus” to “senior.”
• Patrice de Boisien (Oazis consultancy): Discrimination is so widespread “it’s almost the norm.”
  • “We are seeing this silent discrimination based on the idea that seniors are too expensive. They are old, they’ve outlived their usefulness, they are difficult to manage, they are completely false assumptions. But because of these assumptions we don’t hire them.” (C, 10:24)
• Many companies’ only measures for older workers are exit options, not retention.

4. The Value of Older Workers and Intergenerational Synergy

[11:40 – 12:38]

• “A 45 year old senior or a future senior is not a has been; on the contrary, the study we conducted shows that they are more motivated, that they perform better in a company because they have more time... When you bring a senior into a project team, it's motivating for them, but it also motivates younger people.” (C, 11:40)
• Seniors bring experience, pragmatism, and perspective that complements the theoretical knowledge of younger colleagues.

5. Overcoming Job Search Hurdles: Advice from a Career Consultant

[12:42 – 14:18]

• Most online applications for older jobseekers are filtered out by job board algorithms, often without a clear rejection.
• Patrice de Boisien advises jobseekers to rely on “physical encounters”—networking and meeting employers face-to-face.
  • “If you know how to meet the company's needs, regardless of your age, you're useful. And in fact, the face-to-face, this networking approach, as we often say, really helps combat these stereotypes.” (C, 13:58)

6. Company Case Study: Schneider Electric’s Approach

[16:06 – 18:59]

• At Schneider Electric, 42% of the workforce in France is over 50.
• Comprehensive policy: All older workers are asked to identify their professional aspirations via role models (Claire—continue; Thierry—train; Alba—ambitious; Pierre—prepare for retirement).
  • Proposals for support are tailored to each profile.
• Motivation: “Because in fact, you don’t have any other options because of the demography… you must do that, otherwise you are going to lose a kind of competitive [edge].” (G, 18:41)

7. The Employee Experience: Adapting and Thriving Over 50

[19:09 – 21:17]

• Helene Peison Serval, 55, from Schneider Electric, found that transitioning to project work and regularly updating her skills helped her continue to thrive.
  • “When you get to a certain age, you feel uncomfortable saying, maybe they want to replace me, maybe I’m not useful anymore. ... The key thing is to adapt and to follow the changes in the organization. ... You have to challenge yourself to take new opportunities and adapt.” (D, 20:14)
• Early retirement initiatives in the past were misguided: “Now that I come to the age and I say, oh my God, I could, could not stop. ... between 50 and 60, this is where you have the best experience. You can be very useful for the group.” (D, 20:51)
• Stage fright about age remains: “It’s an issue that nobody wants to discuss. We prefer hiding it... When you are overseas, you don’t want to mention that because you think you would be discriminated.” (D, 21:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “When we meet a senior, the best thing we can think of to say is that they don’t look their age, which shows immediately that we have a problem with age.” (C, 02:55)
• “The AI says no. Because of age?” (A, 07:22), “Because of age.” (B, 07:25)
• “We conducted a study in 2023 on the employment of seniors... the response was generally we’re going to put exit measures in place. In other words, we’re going to help them leave.” (C, 10:24)
• “A younger person has done advanced studies... but the senior person has experience... they will bring a certain perspective to juniors in approaching situations.” (C, 12:09)
• “You have to bypass the job offer robots that operate the job boards... It is not to try to find a permanent position or sell yourself at all costs. It’s to listen to the company’s needs.” (C, 13:06)
• “Because of the demography, you will have less young generation entering the market... you must do that, otherwise you are going to lose a kind of competitive [edge].” (G, 18:41)
• “Between 50 and 60, this is where you have the best experience. You can be very useful for the group.” (D, 20:51)

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Important Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:24] – Episode setup on France’s view and treatment of older workers.
• [04:32] – Geraldine’s story: a personal account of jobseeking after 50.
• [09:04] – Comparison of French and UK stats for employment rates over 55.
• [10:24] – Patrice de Boisien on the systemic nature of age discrimination.
• [12:38] – Why age diversity helps companies and teams.
• [13:06] – Job search advice for older workers.
• [16:06] – Company case study: Schneider Electric’s policy for older workers.
• [19:09] – Helene Peison Serval: Facing fears and adapting at 55.
• [21:17] – Reflections on reluctance to disclose age at work.

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Conclusion

France’s battle with workplace ageism is both urgent and nuanced. With significant numbers of talented, experienced workers sidelined due to pervasive prejudice—often abetted by AI hiring filters—companies, government, and individuals all have roles to play in breaking these patterns. As the case of Schneider Electric shows, retaining and developing older employees isn’t just a social good, it’s a business imperative in a country with an aging population. The episode underscores the untapped potential and resilience of workers over 50, while offering practical advice both for jobseekers and for those who can change workplace cultures from within.

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Transcript

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[A]

Welcome to Business Daily from the BBC World Service. I'm John Laurenson. Today we're in France, which is trying to do something about this sort of thing.

[B]

Finally, I received an email saying we are deeply sorry, but your experience, senorite, they said in French, is too high considering the team and it won't fit.

[A]

With the team Ageism France has some of the worst employment statistics in the world for older workers and that's one of the reasons we are a long.

[C]

Way from ancient Greece where the senior was a wise person, a knowledgeable person, the reference person. When we meet a senior, the best thing we can think of to say is that they don't look their age, which shows immediately that we have a problem with age.

[A]

Ageism is bad for state finances. For companies, it's a waste of talent. For the individuals in question, apart from the financial precarity it often involves comes the sense of injustice and not being judged on their merits. We'll be looking at how the French government is fighting what it calls the last discrimination, challenging the language we use. For example, we'll be visiting a tech company that does things differently and have advice for you if you if you're in the 5060 zone and looking for a job, apart from saying AI in every sentence, obviously that's don't call me senior. Coming up in Business Daily recruit someone over 50. Not likely, says an employer in this public service announcement and her friend replies that he hired an over 50 called Sophie, who turned out to be his most reliable employee and the one who masters AI. The best in a co working space in Paris. Prosperous, thrusting and very officey Miromesnil neighborhood. Geraldine Cocon, 55, prints out her CV for the zillionth time. For her, things are not going as well as they did for Sophie. Really not.

[B]

I used to be and I am still marketing communication director for the B2B sector. My main expertise is energy environments. I had an international career in many European countries. Now I'm back in France since 2020 and I've been looking for a job since that moment.

[A]

Has your age been an issue at all as you're looking to restart your career here?

[B]

I'm sure it is an issue because they think that I'm not going to be flexible even though I make it clear that there's no salary problem, that I agree to have a position under what I had before.

[A]

So they're worried that you're going to cost too much and they're worried that you're going to lack flexibility.

[B]

That's yeah. Or there is a hierarchy with a communication director that is younger than I am. Most of them are not confident with working with somebody Older than they are. And I should say I was the same when I used to work abroad. So now I can see the problem.

[A]

Is it also a question of the image of the company?

[B]

It could be, but it's not so relevant in my case as I work in B2B. So I try to convince them that I also work like a consultant and that I know my place. I can give advice if somebody wants it. But no.

[A]

How many applications have you made? How many interviews have you had over this five year period?

[B]

I made a lot of applications, kind of thousands since I came out.

[A]

Literally thousands?

[B]

Yeah. Ready? Literally, not so many interviews. It's hard to get the interviews.

[A]

It's illegal to discriminate against job applicants because of their age in France, but research shows age prejudice is rife. A government testing study found candidates aged 48 to 55 were three times less likely to be called back than those aged 23 to 30. It's standard practice here for companies to use computer software to make a pre selection and for candidates to put photos and dates of birth on their CVs. Recruiters are not supposed to use algorithms to filter out older applicants. But Geraldine is in no doubt that in practice they do.

[B]

You have the first selection, which is the AI. I mean the selection with the computer.

[A]

That's before the interview.

[B]

That's before the interview. So you can't get the interview because the AI just don't show up your cv.

[A]

The AI says no. Because of age?

[B]

Because of age.

[A]

How does this make you feel?

[B]

This makes me feel that when you're 50, it's very difficult to continue to do what you love. Really? I love my work. For example, like last Christmas, I knew somebody in my network who shared the information that someone else was really stressed because he had to find somebody in communication for a temporary mission of one month in order to replace somebody else. So I said, okay, I'd love to do that. That's a sector which is close to close to what I did before. But I don't know it, so I would learn something else. Finally, I got the interview and during the interview I had to convince them that I'm fine with staying at my place, doing my job, operative tasks, no problem. I know how to make badges and things like that. And finally I received an email saying that we are deeply sorry, but I hope that you can understand that your experience, senorita, they said in French, is too high considering the team and it won't fit with the team.

[A]

How did you feel getting that little rejection?

[B]

So bad. I'm Sorry. Of course, each time you have to overcome this kind of rejection. I mean, one month you are 55 and you don't fit with the team for one month.

[A]

Geraldine's story will sound familiar to people in many countries, but France's employment rate for older workers is particularly low. Stats published in July show that just 60% of individuals aged 55 to 64 are in work, compared for example, to 71% in the UK. And if you home in on the 60 to 64 age range, the the employment rate plummets to 39% as compared to 57% in the UK. The cost of all those people not producing, not paying taxes and often living off government benefits is huge. Hence those public service announcements. The campaign is about breaking down stereotypes. The Minister of Work, Astrid Panociane Bouvet, whose initiative the campaign is, says we should think about the way we talk about older workers. She doesn't use the word senior, for example, but prefers experienced worker or 50 plus. Patrice de Boisien is the associate director of a consultancy firm called Oazis, which gives individuals and companies career management advice. He's not too concerned about the language, but says discrimination against older workers is so widespread it's almost the norm.

[C]

It's a very real problem. We are seeing this silent discrimination based on the idea that seniors are too expensive. They are old, they've outlived their usefulness, they are difficult to manage, they are completely false assumptions. But because of these assumptions, we don't hire them. We conducted a study in 2023 on the employment of seniors. We did it because in France we were raising the retirement age, extending people's working lives. We surveyed more than 200 companies and when we asked them what measures they were taking to keep, and I repeat, keep their seniors employed, the response was generally we're going to put exit measures in place. In other words, we're going to help them leave.

[A]

For business owners, of course, the problem doesn't apply. Bernard Arnault, for example, France's richest man who heads the LVMH luxury goods empire, is 76. But the only person who can decide if Bernard Arnault is too old for the job is Bernard Arnault. Beneath boss level, on the other hand, there's a saying in France, place au jeune, make room for the young. As if getting rid of older workers were some sort of social good. Which says Patrice de Boisiat, it really isn't a senior of a Grand Central.

[C]

A 45 year old senior or a future senior is not a has been on the contrary. The study we conducted shows that they are more motivated, that they perform better in a company because they have more time, they don't have sick children, they don't have direct responsibility for their family. When you bring a senior into a project team, it's motivating for them, but it also motivates younger people.

[A]

Why does it motivate young people?

[C]

It motivates younger people because seniors bring a perspective and experience that younger people don't have. In some cases, a younger person has done advanced studies, so they have extremely strong theoretical knowledge, but the senior person has experience. They have a way of seeing subjects, of approaching them, of interpreting them that is extremely pragmatic and so in fact they will bring a certain perspective to juniors in approaching situations.

[A]

What can be done about this? At company level.

[C]

It'S important to train managers because managers are the ones who recruit. It's not the HR director who recruits. The HR director will see if it fits well with the job description. We need to train managers so they do not overlook the CVs of senior people.

[A]

What's your advice for job seekers aged 45, 50?

[C]

You have to bypass the job offer robots that operate the job boards. You'll be eliminated from these online platforms where job openings are posted in an absolutely drastic way. Drastic and underhand, because they eliminate you by telling you that your application is really interesting, but that if by chance, after three weeks you haven't received a response, then you'll have to consider that another profile has been found to be more suitable. So seniors continue to apply on these job boards when in fact they are more often than not immediately binned. To get round this, what you need is physical encounters that allow a senior job seeker to meet an employer and listen to their needs. That's the advice I could give to a senior job seeker. It is not to try to find a permanent position or sell yourself at all costs. It's to listen to the company's needs. Because if you know how to meet the company's needs, regardless of your age, you're useful. And in fact, the face to face the physical. This networking approach, as we often say, really helps combat these stereotypes. They'll be able to see how hiring you would be beneficial for them.

[A]

The recruitment consultant Patrice de Boisiat. You're listening to Business Daily from the BBC World Service.

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[A]

I'm John Laurenson, and today I'm looking at France's battle against ageism in the workplace. Coming up, some good ideas about how to do things better when it comes to older workers. On a hot summer day, I take the train out to the shiny modern business district of Rueil Malmaison, just outside Paris, to visit the headquarters of Schneider Electric. Schneider. Schneider, if you're going full French, is a global French company specialized in the digital management of energy. It has over 150,000 employees around the world. With a workforce this size, hitting upon the recruitment and career development policy that gets the best out of employees, including older workers, is going to have huge consequences for the performance of the company as well as the individual's concerns. So it's something they've put a lot of thought into. Into the head of human resources in France is Dominique Laurent.

[G]

42% of our workforce is over 50. So we decided to design and then to launch a dedicated policy for what we call senior people.

[A]

The starting point was to take a close look at their older workers and realize that they're pretty varied.

[G]

You know, I have one guy like this in my team. His name is Vincent. Vincent. And the guy, I think he's close to retirement, or maybe he's over retirement age, which in France is possible. And this guy is super committed, extremely engaged. You know, recently there was a very complex topic to deal with, especially with unions. And the guy, he volunteered in order to help us. He came to us and he said, okay, I can bring my knowledge, I can help you. And frankly, the guy has been a fixer. His help has been extremely useful for us. And it has been useful because the guy, he has the experience, he has the expertise, he has the experience because of his age. And because of his age, he was also cool, quiet, he has the right attitude in order to deal with unions and so on.

[A]

After carrying out a survey, the company discerned four broad types of older worker. It then created an imaginary employee for each one. Claire, who wants to continue doing the same thing. Thierry, who wants to train the young. Alba, the ambitious one, who wants to accelerate. And Pierre, who wants to prepare his retirement. Schneider now asks all its older employees who they identify with most. Depending on their choice, they receive a series of proposals designed to make it easier to fulfil their aspirations. Why are you doing? What's the motivation for it?

[G]

Because in fact, you don't have any other options because of the demography, you will have less young generation entering the market and so on. You must do that, otherwise you are going to lose a kind of competitive, or I would say the opposite way, because you are going to do that, you will gain a competitive edge.

[A]

So does it work? In her office on the fourth floor, Schneider employee Helene Peison Serval is on a conference call.

[B]

Hello, Ellen, how are you?

[D]

I'm good, thank you, Andre.

[A]

She's 55, identifies as a Claire. She joined Schneider in 2001, works in the finance division. She started out in auditing, went to product costing and business finance, and then she hit 50. Was it a tricky moment for you?

[D]

I must say that when I was 45, 50, I came to the conclusion that I had to be very careful because newcomers were as qualified as was on the type of job I was working for. So five years ago I had the opportunity to move to a project mode, but where I was using my full experience. Actually, I was the one selected because I was the oldest one.

[A]

The new job was working on the transformation of the company's financial organisation. New tools, new systems. Typically the sort of thing managers might not want older workers to get anywhere near. But, says Helene, they realized her experience, contacts and knowledge of the company were valuable. This summer she changed again and now does the same job, but at an international level.

[D]

When you get to a certain age, you feel uncomfortable saying, maybe they want to replace me, maybe I'm not useful anymore. The technology changing. The key thing is to adapt and to follow the changes in the organization. So we are using new tool. You have to be Agile and make sure you still connected with the future of the group and not to stay too long in the position. Some of my friends in other companies had difficulty because they stayed 10 years in the same position. So you have to challenge yourself to take new opportunities and adapt. When I was working for the global supply chain, one of my job was to follow up the move of people leaving early, early retirement at the age of 56. And now that I come to the age and I say, oh my God, I could, could not stop. And I think that was a crazy period where we were asking the people to leave earlier because between 50 and 60, this is where you have the best experience. You can be very useful for the group.

[A]

It's been interesting for me making this program. So I found it's actually quite difficult to find people who are willing to talk about their experience in the workplace after 50 because they just don't want to attract attention attention to their age. They're deeply worried about it.

[D]

It's an issue that nobody wants to discuss. We prefer hiding it. When you are overseas, you don't want to mention that because you think you would be discriminated. The good thing in France, I think is that in the company we started talking about it when there is an issue, it's better to tell it than hiding it.

[A]

Perhaps in France the last discrimination is is finally going into retirement. You've been listening to Business Daily from BBC World Service. Thank you very much to Helene, Dominique, Laurent and Geraldine for taking part and to you for listening. Tomorrow, Business Daily will look at older workers in a different part of the world as Jane Chambers explores how the business community in Chile is adapting to the fastest growing aging population in South America. From me, John Lawrenceon and all of us at Business Daily, goodbye.

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