Business Daily – Life After DOGE

BBC World Service | Host: Ed Butler | Air date: Jan 19, 2026

Overview

This episode of Business Daily explores the far-reaching effects of President Donald Trump’s intensified public sector cuts and the disbanded “Doge Group” (Department of Government Efficiency), one year into his second term. The show investigates the realities facing U.S. federal workers, the repercussions on workers’ rights, economic impacts, political fallout, and the human toll—offering voices from inside government, political analysts, and economists.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Drastic Cuts and “Draining the Swamp”

[02:32]

• President Trump’s second term began with a rapid downsizing of the federal workforce, dubbing the move “draining the swamp.”
• Iconically, Elon Musk was appointed to spearhead the newly formed Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), tasked with targeted layoffs.

"We have a lot of people that aren't doing their job. We have a lot of people that don't exist."
– Ed Butler paraphrasing Trump ([02:31])

2. The Federal Worker Experience: Uncertainty, Sackings, and Legal Battles

[03:17], [03:50], [04:26], [05:05]

• Andrew Lennox (ex-Department of Veteran Affairs) describes abrupt, mass firings:
  • 1,400 Veterans Affairs staff fired overnight.
  • Eventually reinstated after public/legal intervention, with back pay—but describes widespread trauma and ineffectiveness.
  • Quote:

    "Nobody knew that this was coming... the only people that suffered were the American veterans, federal employees, and the taxpayers."
    – Andrew Lennox ([03:50], [04:26])

• Mark Cohn (ex-Park Ranger) accepted a payoff, felt betrayals by federal unions, applied for 200+ jobs, and remains unemployed:
  • Quote:

    "We had some protections. I'll always be very thankful for the American Federal workers union, but... there was zero support from them. They sowed confusion and anxiety into all of us and it was exactly what they wanted."
    – Mark Cohn ([05:39])

3. Atmosphere of Fear and Erosion of Protections

[06:30], [06:57]

• Senior administration figures broadcast a wish for “traumatic fear” among bureaucrats:
  • Quote:

    "We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected when they wake up in the morning."
    – Russell Vogt ([06:30])

• “Judy” (anonymous federal worker):
  • Describes endless uncertainty, diminished union rights, and a constant state of “back and forth.”
  • Quote:

    "There wasn’t really information about who would lose their job... it was just sort of a looming possibility that you could lose your job at any moment... Our protections are very much diminished."
    – Judy ([06:57])

4. Economic Impact and State of the Workforce

[08:07], [08:27]

• Data: 335,000 federal workers left (Jan-Nov 2025), but only ~11,000 outright fired; most quit or retired.
• Reductions equaled about 9% of the federal workforce, but had slight actual impact on federal spending because wages make up a small fraction of the budget.
• Chris Edwards (Cato Institute economist) on possible (but muted) economic benefits:
  • Quote:

    "If a lot of high skill workers, which the federal government has, are now shifted to the private sector, that can be good for the economy."
    – Chris Edwards ([09:36])

  • However, private sector not robustly creating jobs; many laid-off workers struggle to find new employment.

5. Political Narrative and Republican Perspective

[11:00], [11:44]

• Kevin Madden (Republican analyst): DOGE was politically popular for confronting bureaucracy, despite limited fiscal impact.
  • Quote:

    "It represented like the first big comprehensive effort to remake the federal bureaucracy in a way that would shrink it, that would stop spending money on wasteful programs and redirect any federal spending away from the big programs in service of a leftist woke ideology."
    – Kevin Madden ([11:00])

  • He concedes that results are mixed and that real economic security is a bipartisan concern.

6. Long-Term Impact: Workers’ Rights and a Shifting Policy Landscape

[13:33], [14:14], [14:32], [15:18]

• Several departments (Education, Agriculture, Housing) lost more than a quarter of staff.
• Unions and protective agencies (e.g., Department of National Labour Relations) also targeted; union contracts nullified.
  • Jenny Abruzzo (ex-general counsel, now union advisor):
    • Quote:

      "It's an intentional attempt to just strip workers of their rights and to elevate corporate interests over protecting workers rights in this country."
      – Jenny Abruzzo ([14:14])

  • She explains rights technically remain, but are much harder to exercise and defend.

7. Presidential Spin vs Economic Reality

[15:22], [16:00]

• Trump continues to cast policies as a win for American workers, touting private sector job gains.
  • Quote:

    "There are more people working today than at any time in American history. And 100% of all jobs created since I took office have been in the private sector rather than government, which is the only way to make a country powerful and great."
    – Trump (quoted by Ed Butler, [16:00])

• Actual figures show unemployment at 4.4%, up from previous year, and increased long-term unemployment among ex-federal workers.

8. Real Life Consequences and Uncertainty

[18:44], [18:58], [19:11]

• Last remarks from affected workers emphasize a sense of loss, disillusionment, and precariousness.
  • Andrew Lennox:

    "Why I joined the Marine Corps... is the idea of truth and justice... but like now we're just embracing the absolute worst part of, you know, humanity." ([18:44])

  • Judy:

    "You just kind of keep hoping that the next day will be okay. Right? But that's, that's kind of how it is right now." ([18:58])

  • Mark Cohn:

    "I cannot find a new job. I can't go back to school because there's no federal funding. I think that this has been a merry go round of just hoping for better, and I want the president to do better and I want the government to work the way that it needs to work. I just don't see that happening anytime soon." ([19:11])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected when they wake up in the morning." – Russell Vogt ([06:30])
• "We were nervous with Trump coming in because... they're talking about draining the swamp and federal agencies are going to be affected, but, you know, it's the Department of Veterans Affairs. You'd think, like, that's one of the things that they probably don't want to mess with." – Andrew Lennox ([03:50])
• "Our protections are very much diminished... your ability to be able to defend your job... is also reduced." – Judy ([06:57])
• "It's an intentional attempt to just strip workers of their rights and to elevate corporate interests." – Jenny Abruzzo ([14:14])
• "Those are bipartisan concerns that a lot of folks who are deciding to put their name on the ballot are going to have to confront directly by November of 2026." – Kevin Madden ([17:38])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:29 – Lived experiences: Job loss and the “merry go round” for federal workers
• 02:32 – Trump and Elon Musk launch DOGE group and mass firings start
• 03:50 – Veterans Affairs staff fired without notice; legal battle for reinstatement
• 05:05 – Park ranger takes buyout; struggles to find work
• 06:30 – White House openly seeks ‘trauma’ among government workers
• 06:57 – Federal workers report eroded protections and constant instability
• 08:27 – Chris Edwards on scale and limited fiscal impact of cuts
• 09:36 – Private sector is not absorbing enough workers
• 11:00 – Political motivations and support for DOGE among Republicans
• 13:33 – Cuts reach departments overseeing worker rights and unions
• 14:14 – Jenny Abruzzo decries broader attack on workers’ rights
• 16:00 – Trump’s “positive spin” on jobs; rising unemployment laid bare
• 18:44–19:31 – Closing words from federal workers: uncertainty, loss, hope for better

Conclusion

The episode paints a picture of wholesale governmental transformation under Trump’s second term, with deep cuts sending ripples through both individual lives and national politics. Despite the administration’s rhetoric of efficiency and worker empowerment, many federal employees have faced anxiety, diminished protections, and difficulty reentering a tepid private job market. Politically, the project maintains support among some conservatives, but fiscal and economic outcomes remain ambiguous, leading to profound individual and societal uncertainty as the U.S. approaches its next elections.