Jane Chambers (2:50)

That's Cristian Alberto Caballero Chacon, head of operations for the bus company Concertor. I'm in his office in Aguascalientes. Tourists arrive in the town by train and then they need to take a bus to get to Machu Picchu. And who Gets to run those buses is the current issue.

Various Tourists and Locals (3:11)

The owners of the company have been running it for the last 30 years, and they're locals. They come from around here.

Jane Chambers (3:21)

Other local communities have accused Concert of having a lucrative monopoly on the bus service to Machu Picchu. Tickets cost $24 for a foreigner and $15 for a Peruvian. The company was granted a 30 year contract by the municipality of Aguascalientes, meaning they were the only ones allowed to take tourists to the site. But that contract expired in September, and that's when the conflict started. Angry protesters complained about the lack of transparency and fairness in the process of replacing the bus company. The train line into Aguas Calientes was blocked with rocks and around 1,400 visitors were evacuated and another 900 left stranded.

Various Tourists and Locals (4:16)

There have been some conflicts between people from different communities here, but our priority has always been the tourists and giving them the best service we can. This is not a monopoly. Concerto is made up of 12 different companies with different types of partners.

Jane Chambers (4:30)

A new company has now been chosen to run the route. San Antonio de Torontoi is made up of people from other communities near Machu Picchu. But during my visit in late October, Concertoa was still running the Machu Picchu bus route because the new companies faced protests and legal challenges about taking it on. Christian says he can't go into details about that because of the legal process, but is sure the two companies can work together.

Various Tourists and Locals (4:57)

The other company is trying to operate here. If they're given the final approval, we don't have a problem with working with them. We won't stop them.

Jane Chambers (5:11)

It's a complex situation involving people from different local communities and determined to have a stake in a lucrative business. A variety of people I spoke to who didn't want to go on record told me they think the new company will end up being as much as a monopoly as the current one. And despite all of them saying they're part of the community, in reality they're out to make as much money as they can for themselves. But for now, that doesn't stop thousands of tourists coming every day to see the impressive stone walls and terraces of Machu Picchu.

Elizabeth Radke (5:40)

My name's Elizabeth Radke and I'm from Eugene, Oregon.

Jane Chambers (5:44)

And where are we? What made you decide to come?

Elizabeth Radke (5:47)

Well, we're in Aguas Caliente, and yesterday we took the train and got off at kilometer 104 and we hiked the Inca Trail to the top of Machu Picchu. We stayed in a hotel overnight, and today we're going back up by bus and we're going to do a guided tour to actually learn more about it, because it took us all day to hike. It was nine miles.

Jane Chambers (6:09)

Wow. An amazing experience, though. What was it like when you were up there? What are your impressions of one of the seven Wonders of the World?

Elizabeth Radke (6:16)

Well, I think what really impressed me is just how innovative this the Incas were in terms of the building and, like, being able to cut stone before they had tools that really cut stone and the way that they constructed things without mortar and how so many of the terraces for planting and stuff still are up there. And the impressive part about hiking from where we did is there's actually many ruins along the way, not just the ruins at Machu Picchu. And we were so lucky with the weather. The weather gods were smiling at us because it was overcast the entire way. And literally when we got to the sun gate, the sun came out. And so we just got fantastic photos. So it's been a dream of mine since I was a little kid, I think I saw as a kid in National Geographic magazine, Machu Picchu. And so I convinced my two best friends that I hike with at home we have to do this. It's a bucket list item for me.

Jane Chambers (7:21)

As a tourist, how do you feel you've been treated? Because there have been protests, there have been problems with this bus service being the monopoly, you know, locals not being able to get on the same train. Right.

Elizabeth Radke (7:32)

And I'm really sensitive to overcrowding in tourist areas. I mean. And so one of the beauties of making this a UNESCO site is that they are limiting the number of people on the trail. Our guide told us that there's a guide that every day goes to actually pick up trash along the trail. And it was very clean because you could see that they do that once a day. So it's amazing. And the local people have been wonderful.

Jane Chambers (8:01)

We'll have a wonderful time. Thank you so much. Thank you. I've come to one of the many restaurants that benefit from tourists like Elizabeth to meet the manager, Marte Tito.

Marte Tito (8:16)

We work with lots of local products here, like coffee and chocolate, which this region is famous for now.

Jane Chambers (8:22)

It's not easy running a restaurant or a cafe in a place like this because cars can't come in, there's no road here. There are just trains. Tell me how that works.

Marte Tito (8:34)

Yes, you're right. It can be hard running a business here when products can only arrive by train. There are lots of trains for visitors, but the train that brings our product only comes at night and we have one carriage.

Jane Chambers (8:45)

Would you like to see that change? I mean, do people like you running businesses? Would you like to have a road coming here?

Marte Tito (8:56)

Sometimes we think it would be a good idea to have another means of transport like a bus or a car. But we know the tourists enjoy the experience of coming on the train and they have done studies and because of the geography of where we are, it's hard to have a train line and a road as well.

Jane Chambers (9:11)

Cafe manager Marte Tito. You're listening to Business Daily from the BBC World Service.

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Jane Chambers (10:23)

I'm Jane Chambers in Peru finding out how the country's most visited tourist attraction, Machu Picchu is at the center of a row between local businesses trying to cash in on the increasing number of tourists coming to spend money. Marta's right. The train to Aguas Calientes is a magical experience. It takes you through fields of corn with the landscape outside getting lusher and more tropical. Snow capped mountains soar up in the distance and the excitement grows as tourists get nearer to Machu Picchu. But the whole process of actually booking on the train can be confusing.

Various Tourists and Locals (11:00)

They could improve with like websites online helping. Getting tickets and things like reserving tickets.

Jane Chambers (11:05)

Was a nightmare for us.

Various Tourists and Locals (11:06)

It was really hard, especially if you're not doing it through a tour. And the tours that we were looking at were like 550 Australian each and that's just not affordable, especially if you're.

Jane Chambers (11:14)

Backpacking, that's around US$360 for a round trip to get from the town of Cusco, which is where many of the tourists come from, and into Machu Picchu. Todd Carland is traveling around with two other friends. Although they all love Machu Picchu, Anneliese Jacksett also found parts of the trip frustrating.

Marte Tito (11:32)

We also didn't even know that we were getting a bus. We just thought it was one train. We kind of thought if there was any more transport to get up, there would all be included because you pay.

Jane Chambers (11:40)

So much money for the train.

Marte Tito (11:42)

We just thought they would take us all the way up because no one really told us that we needed to get a bus. So we started walking, thinking it was just a short walk, and we were like, oh my gosh, can definitely not do that. It's a two hour hike. So we kind of had to run back and make sure we got our bus passes.

Jane Chambers (11:57)

And these days, tourists are in a race against time. As their friend James Cannon told me.

Various Tourists and Locals (12:02)

Definitely there was a few roadblocks along the way, a few things that weren't super clear, especially when getting tickets, you know, having like only three hours of it being reserved.

Jane Chambers (12:14)

When I visited Machu Picchu many years ago, you could spend as long as you wanted at the site and there were far less people. But now, with thousands visiting every day, you have a specific time slot and need to book a circuit around the site. This leads to stressed out tourists trying to fit train times with their slots and often worried about missing them. I meet local guide Miguel Ango Delgado in the town's main square. He says the two train services, Peru Rail and Inca Rail, run things very differently to when he was little.

Various Tourists and Locals (12:55)

When I was little, my mother would go on the train to sell things in a nearby town. On the train. There was only one train then for locals and tourists. Now there are two train companies running the train services. And I think that Peruvian tourists get the worst deal these days.

Jane Chambers (13:14)

There are different types of trains, ranging from the luxury Heim Bingham train, named after the American explorer who rediscovered Machu Picchu for foreigners with the help of a local farmer in 1911. That ticket can cost around $1,000 for a round trip. Peruvians can of course, book the tourist train, where the cheapest price is around $140. But they'd often prefer to get on the local train, which is only available to nationals and costs $7. The problem's getting a seat.

Various Tourists and Locals (13:47)

They always have to queue for many hours to get a ticket. And when they do, there aren't enough seats, so they often have to stand up and it's not comfortable. It's a sad situation that I've seen for a long time, and it doesn't change.

Jane Chambers (14:04)

Peru Rail is jointly owned between Belmont Limited, which is part of the world's largest luxury goods company, lvmh, and privately owned Peruvian trains and railways. As we heard, many people I spoke to think the company is not providing a decent service. But others point out that at least they provide local trains and freight trains, unlike Inca Rail, which is owned by a major global investment firm, the Carlisle Group. Either way, both companies have a captive audience because the only way to get to Aguas Calientes, the gateway to Machu Picchu, is by train before a bus or hike to the ancient site. I got in touch with both rail companies for a comment, but neither of them got back to me. We sell 1,000 tickets a day to the tourists who come here and haven't planned their trip before and bought them online. That's the mayor of the Machu Picchu district, Elvis La Torre. Just like the trains and buses, entrance tickets to Machu Picchu itself are a lucrative business. But there's a debate over where that income is spent. 90% of all ticket sales go to the Ministry of culture, and 10% stay here in the district and are spent on things like security, health, education and keeping things clear. The mayor wants the allocation of the money to change. We want to receive a bigger percentage of the money for it to stay here in the Cusco region so that we can improve services for tourists here in Machu Picchu and in the rest of the region. He also told me that he wants more money for basic services like health and education in the different communities. The problem is Peru is suffering from political instability with a high turnover of presidents and ministers. General elections take place in April next year. I contacted Peru's Ministry of Culture for a response to the comments made by Mayor Elvis La Torre, but haven't yet had a reply.

Carlos Gonzalez (15:58)

Well, I've been a leader of the tourism sector for five years now, and I've lost count how many ministers, vice ministers and congresspeople I've spoken to. But we cannot cease to exert that pressure from from the private sector. Otherwise, things are going to remain the same.

Jane Chambers (16:24)

That's Carlos Gonzalez, the president of the Chamber of Tourism in Cusco. Carlos has ambitious plans to shake things up for tourists at Machu Picchu. He wants the Ministry of Tourism to be in charge instead of the Ministry of Culture. Because he thinks they can provide a.

Carlos Gonzalez (16:38)

Better service instead of offering three circuits and their variants. What we need to address is how there are different segments of travelers. For example, those who are interested in how the archaeological expedition to Machu Picchu, they can go into one entrance, see what are the current archaeological research stations doing in the site, and then leave through another different entrance. We can have those active travelers trekking their way in and out, using other entrance and other way out. We can have spiritual travelers going and having meditative rituals into the area. Ornithology and wildlife experiences are important for a big important segment of the people. And let's not forget the younger crowd who are more inclined to do their tiktoks and their stories for Instagram. And they also need a place for doing that and enjoy themselves in a youngly fashion. So I think if we start to understand the visitor and their interests and use that for defining more and better circuits.

Jane Chambers (17:54)

Another idea is to promote other tourist attractions in the region. Bidding is currently underway to build a multi million dollar cable car to Choquekirao ruins. It's a remote site which is called the sister city of Machu Picchu. Local guide Inan Omosa Gamara is one of the few thousand visitors it receives every year, compared to more than 1 million to Machu Picchuque.

Various Tourists and Locals (18:21)

Choquequeereo is also known in Quechua as the cradle gold. I think it's not that well known because it's hard to get to. Currently people can only get there by walking and it's a tough, steep route that takes two to five days. It's harder than the Inca Trail. I think that when there's a cable car, the tourists who like trekking will be frustrated because they'll see all the people who've gone by cable car, which is much easier and shorter when they've worked really hard and walked for days to get there.

Jane Chambers (18:49)

A trip on the cable car will take just 20 minutes.

Various Tourists and Locals (18:58)

But I think it will be good to have more people visiting the site. It will help the communities around there that have been abandoned in the mountains for years. There will be work for people with things like hotels, guides, transport, even maintaining the cable cars. So I think it will be a good thing for the region and all.

Jane Chambers (19:15)

Of Peru and to have an alternative to Machu Picchu.

Various Tourists and Locals (19:22)

Yes, another wonder apart from Machu Picchu.

Jane Chambers (19:25)

That's all from Business Daily from Peru. Thanks for listening. I'm Jane Chambers and if you enjoyed the programme and want to hear more episodes, search for Business Daily Wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

Aramco Advertiser (19:53)

Who drives the world forward? The one with the answers or the one asking the right questions? At Aramco, we start every day by asking how? How can innovation help deliver reliable energy to the world? How can technology help develop new materials to reshape cities? How can collaboration help us overcome the biggest challenges? To get to the answer, we first need to ask the right question. Search Aramco Powered by Howe, Aramco is an energy and chemicals company with oil and gas production as its primary business.