Business Daily – "No AI, Thanks"

Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Hannah Mullane, BBC World Service

Episode Overview

This episode concludes a week-long Business Daily series on the business impacts of artificial intelligence (AI). Instead of spotlighting innovation, the discussion turns to those who actively resist AI adoption: authors, filmmakers, artists, audiobook narrators, and small business owners. The episode explores their reasons for pushing back, the risks they face, and whether opting out could ultimately leave them behind.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Creative Pushback: Copyright, Authors, and Screenwriters

• Senate Hearings & Copyright Battles

  • David Baldacci (novelist) testified before the US Senate, alleging that AI developers have trained large language models using copyrighted works—including his own—without permission ([02:18]–[04:09]).
  • Quote ([03:00]):

    "I truly felt like someone had backed up a truck to my imagination and stolen everything I'd ever created."
    — David Baldacci

• Collective Legal Action

  • Authors are banding together to sue major tech companies (Meta, Microsoft, OpenAI), as individual lawsuits would be impossible to sustain due to the tech companies' massive resources ([03:33]–[04:09]).

• Fair Use Defense and Counterargument

  • Tech companies claim their use of copyrighted material for training is "transformational" and protected by fair use.
  • Baldacci pushes back:

    "They're taking my work and using it as food to build their large language models… It's not really that transformative."
    ([04:18]–[04:50])

• AI as Competition

  • AI tools are now used to generate books that mimic the style of popular authors, posing new competitive threats ([05:00])

    "It's really galling in a way."
    — David Baldacci

2. The Arts Under Threat: Filmmaking and Festivals

• Justine Bateman's Stand Against AI in Film

  • Justine Bateman (actor and filmmaker) sees AI as fundamentally destructive to the film industry structure ([06:35]–[07:09]).
  • She launched "Credo 23," a festival exclusively for films made without AI, providing a platform for organic, human creativity:

    "Nothing new will ever come out of Generative AI...where are the filmmakers going to be able to display their new works?"
    ([07:09]–[08:08])

• Industry Downsizing & Job Losses

  • Film and series production has dropped 40% since 2019, partly due to the shift to streaming and AI's ability to replace skilled roles—even actors and cinematographers ([08:14]–[08:53]).

• AI and Artistic Relevance

  • Contrary to popular belief, Bateman argues traditional filmmakers will not be left behind by avoiding AI:

    "You will absolutely be left behind. If you're using AI, you completely stop your forward momentum as an artist...You'll go forward creatively if you don't use AI, you'll do the opposite if you use AI."
    ([09:00])

• Rejecting the "Shortcut" Argument

  • For Bateman, using AI to write scripts or create art represents a shortcut antithetical to true artistry ([09:32]–[10:18]):

    "Would I have it eat something delicious for me as well? I mean, why would I do that? It's pleasurable. I want to do it."
    ([09:38])

    • She asserts that creating impactful films doesn't require vast budgets or AI shortcuts.

3. The Human Touch: Audiobook Narration

• April Doughty (audiobook narrator) details the craft behind bringing stories to life—emphasizing color-coding lines for character voices, adjusting for pace, and deeply researching topics ([13:09]–[13:49]).

• AI Voices in Audiobooks

  • Audible, the largest audiobook app, recently announced plans for AI-narrated audiobooks ([13:49]).
  • Doughty doesn't fear replacement but worries about degraded listener experience:

    "An AI audiobook read by a robot doesn't arouse any empathy...a robot can't really communicate a story as a human can."
    ([14:09])

• Limits of AI Voices

  • While AI may be convincing in short texts, for longer works the lack of human nuance and emotional resonance is clear ([15:13]):

    "For longer text, it doesn't work because the robot doesn't understand the nuance of human emotion."
    — April Doughty

4. Small Business Skepticism: Risk, ROI, and Trust

• Reluctance to Embrace AI

  • Gene Marks (CEO, Marks Group) has seen minimal AI adoption among his 600 small and medium business clients across the US ([15:57]–[16:21]).

    "Right now, they just don't trust it."

• Generational and Experiential Factors

  • Many business owners are in their 50s or older—having witnessed imperfect tech launches before ([16:21]):

    "...Still smarting from investing in technology that wasn't quite ready for prime time..."

• Cost, ROI, and Uncertainty

  • Investing in technology is riskier and the returns less immediate than traditional equipment; small firms hesitate absent proven, reliable value ([17:17]–[17:59]).

• Data Security and Privacy Concerns

  • Distrust of big tech and fears about sensitive data exposure in the cloud remain the leading obstacles ([18:07]):

    "...the number one question I get...is the security and privacy of their data. Business owners are not trusting of big tech..."

• Inevitability of Being Left Behind

  • Marks warns that those businesses that avoid AI risk:

    "They'll fall behind to their existing competitors...and they'll also fall behind in recruiting good employees as well."
    ([18:32]–[18:42])

• Practical Advice for Small Businesses

  • Marks suggests leveraging software vendors' AI features rather than building in-house solutions ([18:42]–[19:39]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• David Baldacci:

  • On AI's use of his novels ([03:00]):

    "I truly felt like someone had backed up a truck to my imagination and stolen everything I'd ever created."

  • On copyright and transformation ([04:18]):

    "They're not really transforming. They're taking my work and using it as food to build their large language models."

• Justine Bateman:

  • On creative stagnation with AI ([09:00]):

    "You will absolutely be left behind. If you're using AI, you completely stop your forward momentum as an artist."

  • On her refusal to use AI ([09:38]):

    "I am a screenwriter. I love writing. Why would I do that? Would I have it eat something delicious for me as well?"

• April Doughty:

  • On AI vs. human storytelling ([14:09]):

    "An AI audiobook read by a robot doesn't arouse any empathy in the listener...a robot can't really communicate a story as a human can."

• Gene Marks:

  • On small business skepticism ([15:57]):

    "Really no one is leaning into AI. No one that I have come across and relying on any AI applications or technologies for their core processes of their business. Right now, they just don't trust it."

  • On data privacy ([18:07]):

    "Business owners are not trusting of big tech, that their data will be secure and protected."

  • On inevitable lag for non-adopters ([18:42]):

    "They'll fall behind to their existing competitors and they'll fall behind to younger generations that will compete against them."

Key Timestamps

• 01:10 – Introduction – AI’s impact and those choosing a different path
• 02:18 – David Baldacci explains copyright theft via AI model training
• 05:00 – AI-generated books competing with authors on Amazon
• 06:35 – Justine Bateman on why AI endangers film industry structure
• 07:09 – Launch and rationale for the Credo 23 "no AI" film festival
• 09:00 – Bateman: "You'll go forward creatively if you don't use AI"
• 13:09 – April Doughty on human touch in audiobook narration
• 13:49 – Audible’s announcement on AI narration and narrators' concerns
• 15:57 – Gene Marks on small business reluctance and ROI skepticism
• 18:07 – Data privacy as a barrier to small business AI adoption
• 18:42 – Whether non-adopters will be left behind

Episode Tone & Takeaway

The episode gives voice to thoughtful, passionate resistance: artists and writers defending the value of creative labor, narrators championing human storytelling, and business leaders evaluating risk and trust. The tone alternates between frustration, principle-driven advocacy, and pragmatic caution, highlighting the nuanced debate rather than framing opposition as simply "anti-tech."

The central takeaway: While AI adoption surges in many sectors, strongholds of resistance persist—often motivated by protection of jobs, creative integrity, or simple business prudence. Whether these holdouts are vindicated or left behind remains to be seen.