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Business Movers
Pioneers and Rivals - Annie Turnbo Malone and Madam C.J. Walker | Tangled | 2
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- [00:00]
Lindsey Graham
Want to get more from business movers? Subscribe to Wondery for early access to new episodes, ad free listening and exclusive content you can't find anywhere else. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on apple podcasts. It's May 1906 at the Roberts and Pope hair salon in St. Louis, Missouri. 28 year old Annie Pope washes her hands in a basin. Four years ago, Annie transformed a small room at the front of this townhouse into a salon, and now she and her sister, Laura Roberts, treat women here with their homemade shampoos and conditioners. Annie dries her hands on a towel before crossing the room. This morning's client is already sitting in the chair, her hair hanging loose over her shoulders. Annie takes a handful of thick, gooey liquid from a bowl, begins massaging it into the customer's scalp. Now this is my wonderful hair grower. I came up with the formula myself. It leaves that itching on your scalp and help the skin to heal. Annie works in silence for a few moments until the piece of the salon is interrupted by the door slamming open. Annie's sister and business partner, Laura storms in brandishing a newspaper. She stabbed us in the back. I'm with a client, Laura. I knew there was something off with her, but whatever this is about, we can discuss it later. No, you need to see this right now. Annie sighs and turns to her client. I'm Sorry about this, Mrs. Barter. My sister is clearly in the middle of some sort of terrible emergency. Would you mind? The woman in the chair waves her hand as if it's no big deal. Annie crosses the room so she can talk to Laura more privately now. You can't do this. Not when I'm with a client. It's not professional. Not professional? Well, I'll show you what's not professional. Look, I just got sent this from a friend in Denver. Laura thrusts the newspaper she's been holding under Annie's nose. Look at that ad. Recognize anyone? Well, that's Sarah, one of Annie's saleswomen. Moved to Denver last year and set up her own hair salon in the city using products she buys from Annie. At least she used to. Annie takes a closer look at the ad. Why isn't she using our name? Because she's not selling our hair grower. She's selling her own Madam C.J. walker's wonderful hair grower. Sarah's our agent. We had a deal. When was the last time she placed an order? I'm not sure. A few weeks back, I guess. Well, I checked. She was putting in an order every week. And then suddenly she stopped. We haven't had an order from Sarah for more than two months. She's betrayed us, Annie. Annie grips her hands tightly. They're still covered in hair conditioner and the liquid oozes out between her clenched knuckles. I can't believe this. She'd still be doing laundry if it wasn't for me. The money she got from selling our products practically paid for her ticket to Denver. Laura can tell that Annie is struggling to hold it together, and their client is beginning to notice. Laura gently pushes Annie out of the way. Mrs. Barter, I think Annie just needs a moment. I'll be glad to take over from here. No, Laura, it's all right. No, what I mean is, I don't need a moment. You tend to Mrs. Barter. Because right now I know exactly what I've got to do. I've got to make her pay. When Annie Pope first met Madam C.J. walker, her name had been Sarah Davis and she'd been a washerwoman living in poverty. She first became Annie's customer and then her best saleswoman. She was someone Annie had trusted, but now Sarah had turned on her, and Annie would never forget. For years to come, Sarah and Annie would be pitched against each other in a rivalry that would come to define both of their lives and their legacies.
- [03:53]
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- [04:22]
Lindsey Graham
Business Movers is sponsored by Bamboohr. Even though my podcast company is pretty small, I have employees in five states and two countries, plus dozens of freelancers all over. And that's great because even if the time zones may be challenging, my team brings a vast array of experiences and perspectives to the table. But it also means I have five states and two country's worth of employment compliance to figure out Federal, state and local payroll taxes, regulations, insurance and benefit administration. Let me tell you, HR is not for the faint of heart. So when I watched the live demo of Bamboohr recently, I realized they were joking around about an all in one solution. Payroll, time tracking, benefits, performance management. All of it in one place and designed to be super easy Easy to use, easy to learn, easy to implement. So reclaim your time with Bamboohr. Check out the free demo@bamboohr.com freedemo see for yourself all that bamboohr can do and how truly affordable it can be too. That's bamboohr.com freedemo bamboohr.com freedemo from wondery I'm Lindsey Graham and this is Business Members in the early years of the 20th century, Annie Pope's hair care company was growing rapidly. Her business had begun in a sink in a borrowed kitchen, but by 1906, Annie and her sister Laura Roberts had a thriving salon in a black neighborhood of St. Louis. The most popular product they sold was a homemade conditioner they called Roberts and Pope's Wonderful Hair Grower. Annie's business success was remarkable, and not only because she was just a generation removed from slavery, she was also a woman in a time when business was deemed a man's domain. But Annie wasn't the only black woman who saw the potential for profit in the hair care industry. And her business would soon come under threat from someone she had thought she could trust. Just like Annie, Sarah Davis mother had been enslaved and she too had been orphaned as a child. But unlike Annie, Sarah had not dreamed of going into business as a young woman. Instead, like so many others in her position, Sarah had taken on low paying work as a washerwoman. By the time Annie Pope knocked on her door in 1904, Sarah was 36 years old and had separated from her second husband. She was the mother to a 19 year old daughter and she was barely making ends meet. But Annie offered Sarah a lifeline, a job as a saleswoman for Roberts and Pope's Wonderful Hair Grower. Sarah took to the job with enthusiasm and Annie found that with someone else going door to door for a change, she was able to focus her attention on growing her business. But Sarah would soon realize that she didn't need Annie as much as she thought. So when the chance came along, she would break ties with her boss and go it alone, beginning a rivalry that would poison the relationship between the two women forever and spur them both onto new heights. This is the second episode in our four part series on the pioneers of black hair care. Tangled. It's early summer 1905 in St. Louis, Missouri. A year before Annie Pope discovers that her former saleswoman has gone into competition with her. 37 year old Sarah Davis opens the door to the Roberts and Pope salon on Market Street. Annie turns, still stirring a pot that's warming on a stove in the corner of the room you're early. It's not quite ready yet. Well, that's no problem. Sarah puts down her bag and stands awkwardly near the stove. Annie keeps stirring the mixture in the pot, but she can sense that something is bothering Sarah. Everything okay, honey? Yeah. Are you sure? Well, you know, Annie, I'm very grateful for everything you've done for me. Yeah, And I really enjoy the work. It beats the laundry every day of the week. I can't even imagine how I used to do that. Sarah, what is it? Sarah takes a deep breath. Oh, I'm moving. I'm moving to Denver. Oh. Well, okay. What's taking you out west? I have an older sister there and I want to try something new. Well, I guess that's exciting for you. Your daughter. Is she coming too? What about that new man of yours? Sarah smiles coyly. Cj yeah. He'll join us when I'm settled. Lele is coming with me. Oh, gosh. Well, we'll certainly miss you. You sell more products than anyone else, even me. Oh. Oh. Oh, this is done. Grab a tin, would you? Sarah takes a clean tin from the shelf and Annie carefully pours some of the warm solution from the pot into it. When it's full, Sarah puts the tin on the side to cool and grabs another from the shelf. But, you know, I was thinking maybe. Maybe I don't have to stop working for you. That's a bit of a commute, though, right? Colorado's got to be a thousand miles away. No, I want to be your woman on the ground there, selling your wonderful hair grower to the people of Denver. Annie fills the second tin, thinking carefully about Sarah's proposal. Well, you be on your own. You. You'd have to market yourself, find your own clients. I wouldn't be able to help that much. But that's sort of why I want to do it. Be my own woman. You know, I'll take Robert and Pope's wonderful hair grower into a whole new city. Well, you know, I do have dreams of Robert and Pope. Salons in places all over. Like Chicago, New York, like Denver would be a good place to start. You can send me stock by rail. Well, I don't see much wrong with the idea. I. Okay, let's do it. You can be Robert and Pope's official agent in Denver, Colorado. Oh, Annie, thank you. I promise you won't regret it. Should we shake on it? Sarah holds out her hand and Annie takes it. Well, here's to a long and profitable partnership. A few weeks later, Sara Davis boarded a train with A one way ticket to Denver, the city at the feet of the Rocky Mountains, promised a new start for both Sarah and her boss, Annie Polk. Annie hoped that Sarah would be setting up just the first of many Robertson Pope salons outside of St. Louis. But Sarah wouldn't stick to their agreement. And before long, Annie wouldn't have a partner in Colorado. She'd have a rival. Sarah Davis arrived in Denver on July 20, 1905. The temperature was in the mid-70s, a pleasant change from the stifling mid-90s of St. Louis. But Sarah hadn't just left behind the oppressive summer heat in Missouri. She'd also forgone her safety net in St. Louis. Annie Pope's salon had been only a block away from Sarah's home. If she ever needed advice, Sarah could be at Annie's within a matter of minutes. And it was Annie who taught Sarah how to treat clients, scalps and hair, who had always arranged and paid for ads in the local papers. But in Denver, Sarah was essentially on her own. She'd now need to set up her own salon and find her own clients in a city that had never heard of Annie Pope or her wonderful hair grower. So at first, Sarah stayed with her sister Lucy, before trying to find an apartment where she could set up her own hair salon. To help pay the bills, Sarah began working as a cook in a boarding house, restricting her hours to just two days a week. The rest of her time she spent searching for customers for her new salon. She placed ads in newspapers and had business cards printed, then handed them out to potential customers as she went, selling door to door, just like Annie had done when she first started out. Sarah took no time off, not even Sundays. Instead, she joined the congregation of a local Methodist church and took advantage of the time she spent there to promote her business. Thanks to her tireless efforts, Sarah's client base was soon large enough for her to pay her bills so she could let the kitchen work go and completely focus on her hair salon. But Sarah soon discovered that being almost a thousand miles away from Annie had its drawbacks. Sarah learned that Denver's women seemed to suffer from dandruff, psoriasis and hair loss even more than those in St. Louis. She thought that perhaps the high alkali levels in the city's soil were to blame. In reality, it was probably the cool, dry mountain air. But whatever the reason, it meant that there was more demand for Roberts and Pope's wonderful hair grower in Denver than Sarah had expected. By the onset of winter 1905, she was already running Low on stock. Had she still been in St. Louis, Sarah could have simply stopped by Annie's salon and picked up more conditioner whenever she needed it. But in Denver, there was a long lead time between Sarah requesting more stock and it arriving by rail. And Sarah knew if she couldn't get the product she needed in a timely fashion, she would soon have to start turning customers away. So as 1906 dawned, Sarah had a moment of realization. She didn't have to be dependent on anyone else. After all, she had set up this new business in this new city all by herself. There was nothing to stop her from making her own hair care products as well. This way, Sarah wouldn't have to pay Annie and she wouldn't be at the mercy of the railroad schedules. And without all the costs associated with buying and transporting Annie's Wonderful Hair Grower, Sarah would be able to make greater profits. The only problem was that Sarah did not know how to make hair conditioner. Annie's formula for Roberts and Pope's Wonderful Hair Grower was a closely guarded secret. Sarah knew that the product worked. After all, she was one of the people who benefited from it. But she didn't know exactly what went into a thick liquid that she massaged into clients scalps every day. So Sarah took one of her last tins to a pharmacist in Denver and asked him if he could reverse engineer it and figure out exactly what it contained. It didn't take the pharmacist long to decipher Annie's secret formula. Roberts and Pope's Wonderful Hair Grower used a thick petroleum jelly for the base. Copper sulfate and precipitated sulfur helped ease itching and promoted healing. Beeswax was a stabilizer and finally coconut oil gave the mixture its luxurious sheen and smell. Armed with this knowledge, Sarah rushed back to her apartment and mixed her own batch of conditioner. Soon she had a product that looked, smelled and acted just like Roberts and Pope's Wonderful Hair Grower. All she had to do now was sell it. In January 1906, six months after arriving in Denver, Sarah married for the third time. She'd been separated from her second husband for years and she'd met her new man in St. Louis only a few months before leaving the city. Charles Joseph Walker worked in advertising and hadn't been able to leave his job when Sarah first relocated to Denver. But he promised to join her in Colorado as soon as possible. And he was good to his word. He arrived in late 1905, and a few weeks later he and Sarah tied the knot CJ arrived at just the right time. Because if Sarah's new hair grower was to be a success, she needed to tread a delicate path. To avoid accusations of theft, she had to differentiate her product from the better known Robertson Pope Wonderful Hair Grower that she'd been using herself since she'd arrived in the city. Sarah also knew that she couldn't make it seem too different, because if her clients didn't like the change, she'd risk losing them. CG CJ's background in advertising meant that he had the solution. He told Sarah that her customers were buying an idea as much as an effective hair conditioner. They wanted to look and feel a certain way. And if Sarah could build her business into a brand that represented that feeling, then her customers would stay loyal. CJ suggested that Sarah make herself the face of the product. Sarah had an appealing backstory. She could tell she'd once been new, nearly bald, but she'd regrown her hair with the help of a medicated conditioner. Sarah didn't need to mention that it was Annie Pope's Wonderful Hair Grower that she'd used. Instead, she could rewrite that portion of her history and imply that it was her own formula that had saved her hair. To implement this new strategy, Sarah took out more ads in local newspapers. When she'd first arrived in Denver, her ads had been cheap text only affairs. But now she could afford to make them larger and more sophisticated. These newest ads included her own photograph as proof that her hair grower was effective. The image showed Sarah with a slight smile, her hair neatly swept into soft curls. In these first few ads, she referred to herself as Mrs. C.J. walker. Then she started naming herself Madam C.J. walker. In Sarah's view, this French form of dress gave her business a more cosmopolitan air. At the time, French perfume and beauty products were considered the best in the world. And Sarah hoped that her new brand name would suggest that her products and salon were top quality too. And the advertising campaign worked. But the ads also let Sarah's new business strategy out of the bag. Word soon got back to Annie Pope in St. Louis that Sarah had broken their deal and struck out on her own. Less than a year after agreeing to be Annie's exclusive agent in Denver, Sarah had gone into competition with her former boss. Annie had been disappointed when she lost her best saleswoman, but she would have gotten past that. This would be another matter entirely. Annie would be livid when she discovered Sarah had stolen her formula, but she wouldn't be able to turn the other cheek Instead, she would hit back Business Movers is sponsored by ShipStation. I think my 2025 is going to have to start in February because January, which should have been a month of planning and preparation, has instead been four weeks of unexpected cha. And for you business owners, you know that even a little chaos can spell big trouble. But for those of you in charge of order fulfillment for an E commerce business, there's ShipStation. To keep your day to day remaining calm, save time and money every month by shipping from all your stores with one login, automating repetitive tasks and finding the best rates among all the global carriers. Calm the chaos of order fulfillment with the shipping software that delivers switch to ShipStation today. Go to shipstation.com and use code Movers to sign up for your free trial. That's shipstation.com, code Movers business Movers is sponsored by Attentive. Imagine for a moment if you got a message from your favorite brand and it's so specific and personalized it feels like it was created just for you. Well, chances are if you got such a message, they're using Attentive, the SMS and email marketing platform designed to help brands build and connect with their ideal audience. Attentive helps marketers create unique messages for every subscriber, transforming the consumer shopping experience and maximizing marketing performance. It works like this. Attentive's AI learns what subscribers actually want based on their real time interactions with your brand. And that means it customizes the content, tone and even timing of every message so they always resonate. If you're ready to take your customers on a journey created just for them, visit attentive.combusinessmovers to learn more. A few weeks after Sarah Walker began selling her own hair growth formula, Sarah and her husband CJ file out of the chapel at the end of Sunday service. They exchange nods with the smiling minister as they exit onto the street. But just when they're about to make their way home, Sarah feels a gentle tug on her sleeve. She turns to see one of the women from the congregation. Oh, excuse me, Mrs. Walker? Yes? Do you have a moment? Because I wanted to ask about your hair growing. Oh, of course. Hey cj. You go on, I'll catch up. As CJ walks away, Sarah turns to the woman with a smile. Now how can I help? The woman lowers her head and speaks more quietly. Well, I struggle for years with my hair, but just recently I've noticed it's starting to fall out. Not really. Told this to anyone, but my sister in law said your hair grower might be the thing to help. Well, it sure is. You know, a few years ago, I was on the verge of going entirely bald myself. Just look at me now, though. And you used your hair grower? I did. That's right. Although to tell you a secret, I didn't know the first thing about looking after hair back then. So who taught you? Another hairdresser? I prayed to the Lord and he answered. A few other women from the congregation overhear Sarah as they walk past and start listening. You see, one night I had a dream. A man appeared to me and told me exactly what I needed to do to make my hair grow again. So as soon as I woke up, I sent for the ingredients he told me about. When they arrived, I mixed the formula, put it on my scalp. What then? Sarah points at her own full head of hair. Well, my hair grew back. It grew back quicker than it ever fell out. The women listening to Sarah look at each other with astonishment. Ladies, I believe I've been touched by God. I'd only wanted something to fix my own hair, but I realized something. I couldn't keep this miracle to myself. It wouldn't be right. This is a gift that I just had to share. She reaches into her bag and pulls out Madam C.J. walker's wonderful hair Grower. This is it, ladies. My own special hair formula. Guaranteed to give you a healthy scalp and a full head of luxurious hair. Well, put me down for one. Of course. No, two, actually. I'll get one for my neighbor as well. Well, tell all your friends and don't let them be tempted by inferior products. Madam C.J. walker is the name to look for. Sarah Walker realized that she needed an origin story to explain away an inconvenient truth. That she'd stolen the formula for her hair grower from her old boss, Annie Pope. Although Sarah's account of the formula coming to her in a dream might have seemed far fetched, it was apparently accepted by most of her customers. In truth, they didn't really care where Madam C.J. walker's wife wonderful Hair Grower came from. They were just glad that they had it and it worked. But there was one person who certainly did care where Sarah got her formula. Annie Pope could have dismissed the experiment in Denver as a failure and gone back to focusing on her core market in Missouri. But Annie took Sarah Walker's betrayal personally, and she had no intention of letting her get away with it. Instead, Annie decided that she would find fight to retain her business's foothold in Denver. But Annie was at a geographical disadvantage. Sarah was on the ground in Colorado and could speak directly to potential customers and clients. Annie, on the other hand, was almost a thousand miles away. So hoping to convince Denver's women that her hair grower was the original, Annie quickly trained up a new sales agent in St. Louis and sent her to Colorado as Sarah's replacement. Maddie Holly soon set up a salon in Denver and began the hunt for clients. Just like Sarah before her, Maddie relied on local newspapers to spread the word. She and Annie paid for ads proclaiming that Roberts and Pope's wonderful hair grower was the original and still the best, warning customers to be wary of inferior knockoffs. And although Madam C.J. walker's hair grower was never mentioned by name, the implication was clear enough. Sarah's new product was just a copycat. But Maddie found she was swimming against the tide. Sarah had almost a year's head start in Denver and she had used that time well. By the time Maddie arrived in the city, Sarah had a well established network of friends and allies and a large roster of satisfied clients. The Madam C.J. walker brand was widely recognized. And it was Annie's hair grower that most people thought was the copycat. So when Mattie reported all this back to Annie and St. Louis, Annie realized she had some thinking to do. Brand names were already on Annie's mind. Her five year marriage to Nelson Pope had fallen apart. Annie and Nelson had no children. So after he moved out of the home they shared, Court granted the divorce decree with little fuss. The social norm at the time was for a divorced woman to revert to her maiden name. But that left Annie in a quandary. She'd built up her business as Annie Pope. That was the name on her popular hair grower, so she was determined to hold onto it. But Annie also had to admit that as a brand, Madam C.J. walker sounded grander and more exclusive. So in the end, Annie decided to keep one name but change another. She came to an agreement with her ex husband that she could carry on using the name that her clients knew in St. Louis. So she remained Annie Pope. But she took the the opportunity to change the name of her business to better appeal to new customers in other regions. Annie took the first two letters of her last name and combined them with those of her business partner and sister, Laura Roberts. So Roberts and Pope became Poro. Annie thought her new branding was distinctive and easy to remember. It even reminded her a little of another product that was fast becoming popular in America. Coca Cola. And the snappy new name soon bore fruit route with its Refreshed branding, the PORO hair grower began to make inroads in the Denver market. The city was big enough to easily support two black hair salons, and Annie's agent, Maddie Holly, soon gained enough customers to survive. So despite her animosity towards Sarah, Annie had to admit that her former employee had some good ideas. Sarah had been the first to exploit the power of branding. She'd been the first to suggest using agents working on commission to expand into new territories. Annie had seen the benefits of rebranding, so now she decided to give agents another chance. Over the next few months, Annie trained several other women in the Poro hair care system and sent them out to towns and cities in Illinois and Missouri. But Annie was not prepared to let another of her agents double cross her the way Sarah had. Annie had only agreed to an informal deal with Sarah, and their handshake hadn't been legally enforceable. That wasn't a mistake Sarah would make twice. Twice. So before sending her next generation of agents into the field, she made sure they signed a contract. Annie's deal with them was essentially an early form of franchise agreement. Her agents paid her a fee of $25, the equivalent of around $1,000 today. And in return, Annie trained them in how to use Poro products to treat a client's scalp and hair. At the end of a two week course, these agents were expected to run their own business businesses just like Sarah had in Denver. But under Annie's new contract, her agents agreed to exclusively use Poro products, which they could only buy from Annie in St. Louis. It was a novel agreement for the time, and the legality of Annie's new contract was soon put to the test. One of her earliest trainees was a woman named Margaret Bedford. Margaret paid the $25, completed Annie's course, and set about establishing her herself as a Poro agent in West St. Louis. She took out ads stating that she'd been trained in the Poro system and had been given a diploma by the famous hairdresser Annie Pope. But a few months later, Margaret tried to pull the same trick that Sarah had in Denver. She makes her own hair conditioner and began using it in her salon, marketing it as Bedford's wonderful hair Grower. Hearing about this, Annie was convinced that Margaret had broken the terms of their contract. So Annie hired a lawyer and took her to court. The case progressed slowly as each side argued the finer points of exactly what Annie had taught during her two week course and which parts of the contract were legally enforceable. So when the final judgment was made. Both women claimed victory. Margaret was banned from making any reference to the fact that she was trained in the Poro hair care system. But the judge also ruled that Annie could not force Margaret to only use Poro products forever. So Margaret was free to continue business in western St. Louis as long as she steered clear of the Poirot name. But if that was a disappointing result to Annie, she could reassure herself that the conflict with Margaret was the exception rather than the rule. Annie trained dozens of other agents, and they all kept to their side of the bargain. Some operated salons out of their own front rooms. Others traveled door to door. But it didn't matter to Annie where they treated their customers as long as they placed regular orders for new stock. And as her profits rose, Annie planned to expand even further. She now had a strategy she was convinced could work in the long term. She would continue to train new agents who would transform Poro from a local business into a national brand. But she wouldn't be the only one eyeing expansion in Denver. Sergeant Sarah Walker would also be looking to grow her business beyond the city limits, guaranteeing that the rivalry between these two women wasn't over yet.
- [29:04]
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- [29:57]
Lindsey Graham
Did you know that parents rank financial.
- [29:59]
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- [30:01]
Lindsey Graham
Life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families with greenlight. You can send money to kids quickly, set up chores automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids spending. With real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight Risk free today@greenlight.com wondery it's September 1906 on a train in rural Colorado, a few months after Sarah Walker launched her own line of hair care products. Sitting in a rail compartment, Sarah stares out the window at the countryside rushing past. Opposite her, Sarah's husband, C.J. silently reads a newspaper. The carriage rocks back and forth and their bags sway in the luggage baskets overhead. It's not a long train journey from Denver to their destination, but Sarah is not used to sitting down, doing nothing. She clears her throat. So this is exciting, right? Our first business trip together. Mm. C.J. doesn't look up from his paper. Sarah fidgets in her seat. It's such open country. Look. They're deer. I hear there's a lot of farming around Pueblo, too. I bet that'll mean plenty of business for us. You know, farming is hard on the hare, being out in the weather. It is a hotel for black folk that you booked us into, right? Yeah, of course. Two weeks bed and board, then two weeks in Trinidad, two weeks in Colorado Springs, six weeks in hotels. Well, it'll be worth it when you see the dozens of Madam C.J. walker trainees at every stop. And you've hired somewhere for these courses you're given too, right? Yes, I've done that. It's all under control. Okay. Sarah frowned because she doesn't understand why her husband is being so sour. She gets up out of her seat and sits down next to him, resting her head on his shoulder. I thought you wanted to come on this trip with me. I do. Do you? Because it sounds like something's wrong. C.J. finally lowers his newspaper. It's just. Are we going to lose money on this? Is that why you're worried? I'm just trying to think practically. It's great to have ambitions, but all this needs to be paid for. Hotels, rail fairs, meals. None of it's free. Well, we might be slightly out of pocket when we get back home. Yeah, but try to think of it as an investment. If I train up these hairdressers, then they'll buy my products to use on their customers. Instead of running one salon in Denver, we'll soon have a stake in dozens all across Colorado. But in the meantime, you've left your own salon in the hands of a 21 year old. Oh, she's not just some 21 year old, CJ. She's my daughter. And Lelia can handle it. I trust her. She just needs a chance to show what she can do. You know, I've got nothing against Wilia. It's more that I just worry if we're not in Denver, Annie Pope or Someone else might try to muscle in. And after we work so hard, I don't want that to happen. Oh, I won't let that happen. Sarah takes hold of CJ's hand. I'm Madam CJ Walker, remember? They ain't got nothing on me. The next six weeks would be a pivotal time for the Madam C.J. walker Hair Company. The trip through Colorado was a test run for a new strategy for Sarah Walker's growing business. It was also a gamble. If no one showed up at Sarah's training courses, then she and her husband would stand to lose a lot of money. But if trainees did show up, there was another danger that could cost the couple a lot more. In 1906, Pueblo, Colorado was a fast growing and increasingly wealthy town with a population of almost 40,000 people. When Sarah Walker got off the train there from Denver, one of the first things she did was place an ad in the local newspaper announcing her arrival. But this time, Sarah wasn't looking for clients. She was looking for trainees. Over the next two weeks, Sarah taught her hair care methods to the women of Puebla. Sarah's course was very similar to the one run by Annie Pope in St. Louis, teaching trainees about the importance of scalp health and showing them how to treat a customer's hair with conditioner. But rather than use Poro products, of course, Sara used her own Madam C.J. walker brand. Then, when the course was over, Sarah encouraged her newly qualified hairdressers to set up their own salons and gave them details of how they could buy Madame C. Walker products directly from Denver at a very competitive price. And as soon as she was finished in Pueblo, Sarah moved on to start another training course in Trinidad, close to the border with New Mexico. Even though this town was home to only a few thousand people, 45 trainees still signed up for Sarah's course. And her final stop in Colorado Springs was equally popular. Despite Sarah's husband's concerns about the cost, this six week business trip was a complete success. By the end of 1906, Sarah had a network of hairdressers throughout Colorado. And some of her graduates had even crossed state lines to set up salons in New Mexico and Kansas as well. But wherever they were based, they all sent orders back to Denver for Sarah's miraculous hair grower. The Madam CJ Walker brand was spreading. But just like Annie Pope, Sarah knew that training local agents left her potentially vulnerable. There was always the risk that one of these agents might complete Sarah's course and use what they'd learned to set up as a new competitor, Sarah was especially aware of the danger, because that's exactly what she'd done to Annie. But while Annie tried to protect herself from a rogue agent with legal contracts, Sarah relied more on the growing power of her brand. The training courses didn't just help Sarah find new new recruits, they also promoted Madam CJ Walker, the brand in every city she visited. Arriving in these small and often remote towns, Sarah couldn't help but make a splash. She was an outsider, which was noteworthy enough, but she was also a black businesswoman, which was something very rare indeed. So by the time she left each town on her tour, her face and her brand were well known. And that's what Sarah believed would produce protect her business. She was convinced that once her trainees and her clients bought into the Madam C.J. walker brand, they wouldn't settle for anything else. But Sarah's business strategy differed from her former boss in another way, too. Annie Pope was happy with her fixed base of operations in St. Louis and had no plans to leave Missouri. But Sarah didn't want to remain a big fish in a small pond like Denver. She was already making friends. Preparations to move Once again, she was determined that the tour through Colorado would be just the beginning because Madam C.J. walker was going national. From Wonder Eat this is episode two of Pioneers and Rivals for Business Movers. On the next episode, Sarah Walker overcomes racial prejudice, sexual discrimination and a personal betrayal as the Madam C.J. walker company embarks on a spectacular ride. If you like business movers, you can unlock exclusive episodes found nowhere else on Wondery plus and access new episodes early and ad free. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a survey@wondery.com survey if you'd like to learn more about Annie Malone and Sarah Walker, we recommend on her own the Life and Time times of Madam C.J. walker by A'Lelia Bundles, a friend to all mankind, Mrs. Annie Turnbow Malone and Poirot College by John H. Whitfield and Notable Black American Women Edited by Jessie Carney Smith. This episode contains reenactments and dramatized details. And while in most cases we can't know exactly what was said, all our dramatizations are based on historical research. Business Movers is hosted, edited and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship Audio editing by Mohammed Shahzib Sound design by Molly Bach Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written and researched by Scott Reeves, executive producers are William Simpson for airship and Aaron O'Flaherty, Jenny Lauer Beckman, and Marshall Louie for Wondering. Business Movers is sponsored by ShipStation. I think my 2025 is going to have to start in February because January, which should have been a month of planning and preparation, has instead been four weeks of unexpected chaos. And for you business owners, you know that even a little chaos can spell big trouble. But for those of you in charge of order fulfillment for an e commerce business, there's ShipStation. 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