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Business of Home Podcast
Andre Mellone wants less perfection, more emotion
00:59:44
The buzzy interior designer and architect shares the story of his career
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- [00:04]
Dennis Scully
This is business of home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking to leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is interior designer Andre Malone, the founder of Studio Malone. Born in Brazil, Andre's upbringing took him from Sao Paulo to Syracuse when he moved to the US to study architecture. From there, he worked for the heavyweights of high design in New York, from Robert a.m. stern to Mark Hampton to Ferguson Chamamian. Out on his own, Andre has garnered buzz and media attention for his signature look, an aesthetic sometimes described as mid century masculine. A recent project he did for Lauren Santo Domingo was Architectural Digest's December cover. I spoke with Andre about the key lessons he learned working for design icons. Why all designers, no matter how much they hate it, should be involved in the financial side of their business. And why design is about emotion, not perfection. This podcast is sponsored by Leloi, maker of rugs, pillows and wall art for the thoughtfully layered home. This season, Liloy introduces a breadth of new collections for all styles, all aesthetics and all price points. Visit liloirugs.com to see what's new and sign up for a trade account, that's lol oirugs.com and follow them on Instagram and TikTok at Leloy Rugs. This podcast is also sponsored by claffs, the world leader in sauna luxury at home. Wellness rooms are on the rise and Claffs designed saunas for the discerning eye. With nearly a century of storied craftsmanship and innovation, Claffs has perfected the art of sauna. The result? Distinct and elegant designs that harness the transformative powers of heat. There are saunas and then there are claff's saunas. To learn more about the leaders in sauna luxury and their exclusive trade programs, visit claffsusa.com that's K L A F S USA.com and now on with the show.
- [02:35]
Interviewer
Tell us where you grew up exactly and describe it a little bit for us.
- [02:39]
Andre Malone
I was born in Sao Paulo, which is the, you know, for context, right. Sao Paulo is the New York of, of Brazil, you know. And I grew up, you know, in a kind of like sort of well to do Italian, Portuguese family, you know, living in pretty nice houses and, and.
- [02:58]
Interviewer
Dad was an industrial designer if I recall.
- [03:01]
Andre Malone
Yeah, so exactly. So that was something. And I always like. It was like the one language that me and my dad sort of developed very early on as a way of communicating because, you know, I wasn't so kind of My dad is very sort of like heterosexual, you know, like very like straightforward, you know, industrial designer, you know, And I was, let's say, a little bit more sensitive, a little softer.
- [03:29]
Interviewer
Around the edges, right?
- [03:31]
Andre Malone
Yes. And my dad. So like, just for context, right, so he's like an industrial designer, part of that kind of like mid century Brazilian group of designers who are like doing all that beautiful, exciting stuff in the 60s and the 70s.
- [03:45]
Interviewer
And he was very prominent, right?
- [03:46]
Andre Malone
I mean, he was super, super prominent. He was part of these big sort of design groups, you know, he was kind of like, he was kind of, kind of more like, you know, him and his desk and let me do my work and, you know, but, you know, it was all of that. And then he also raced cars. So he was super, super, super hetero, super straight, super. And I, and I like to like, and I like to draw trees and, you know, birds and, you know, anyway, so, but, but we kind of like knew that. I think he kind of knew from the beginning that I had that, you know, whatever he had, I kind of inherited it.
- [04:22]
Interviewer
Did your father, I mean, did he express his feelings about. Boy, I'd love for you to carry this on. You obviously seem inclined in this direction.
- [04:33]
Andre Malone
No, no.
- [04:34]
Interviewer
So he didn't.
- [04:36]
Andre Malone
No, he, he always told me, he's like, you should definitely tend to this passion that you have, but you need to be a businessman. So much so that he forced me to apply to business school. And I never studied. I never, you know, I never, I was, I had no interest and I could never get in. You know, I think I tried for like two years to get into business school and I couldn't, and I couldn't get in. And then I secretly applied to Industrial Design school behind his back and obviously got accepted on the, on the, on the first round. And then I told them, I was like, I, I got accepted and I'm going to go study interior industrial design. And he said, okay. And then after three months, I said, I think I'm a little more advanced than this and I want to maybe study going to the U.S. you know, to go to school. And that's how it started, you know, this whole thing of like making this move to the, to the U.S. and.
- [05:34]
Interviewer
What did he say when you said you wanted to go to the US and go study architecture at Syracuse?
- [05:39]
Andre Malone
Yeah, so, exactly. So he said, he said, that's very. Well, you know, I hear you, but if, if you wanna, if you wanna study in the US if you wanna study abroad, I think you should study architecture because it's a more complete course and, you know, you can scale it back to anything that you want to do. And I agree with him. And ended up going to Syracuse University, which at the time was one of the few schools that offered a Bachelor of architecture, you know, so, like, it's a five year degree that you go straight into architecture and as opposed to studying something else and then getting a master's. And I fell in love.
- [06:19]
Interviewer
Well, and tell me how you, how you went from Syracuse to working for the legendary Robert a.m. stern.
- [06:26]
Andre Malone
Right, exactly. I had a successful thesis on my fifth year. I had a price, I won a price, you know, so I had that on my side. And moving to New York was kind of. It was a dream. And I remember my friend, you know, we were my, my friends at school, we all had lists of firms, right? I was just like, I don't know, I just remember having this very. This thought of, like, how can my letter be different than the others, the other thousands that they're receiving, you know, So I would try to cater, you know, like, so I'll be like, oh, well, if I'm gonna write Michael Graves, I'm gonna maybe send that project if I'm gonna write this other guy, you know, and then I remember, oh, Robert Stern, maybe I'll add some watercolors and I'm gonna send along with my letter. And that was. I got a call two days later. Oh, hello. I was like, asleep. You know, I didn't have a job. You know, my. My parents had given me a deadline to, like, start supporting myself. I was trying to find a job in New York and I was asleep and they. And I remember the person that, that called, she was very funny. She became a friend later. She said, oh, I'm sorry, did I wake you? And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- [07:43]
Interviewer
What time is it?
- [07:44]
Andre Malone
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And she said, well, we like your resume. We wanted to know if you wanted to come in and have a chat. And that was that. And she did mention, we like your watercolors. I came to the office, was interviewed by some of the partners, and then they brought in Bob at the end. Hello, blah, blah, blah. And then I was hired. I was offered the job that was 1994. And I was like, immediately through on what they call the model shop. You know, you build architectural models, right? So which is basically you're just there cutting paper all day long. Cutting, cutting strips of paper and gluing things together or sculpting masses out of clay. It's really not cute.
- [08:35]
Interviewer
It's not pretty, but sounds terribly rewarding and stimulating. Yes.
- [08:40]
Andre Malone
So it's like, oh, you're at the model shop. Okay, so you must be a new hire. So. And then I got a shortcut. Just remember, we're there one late night, you know, building models or whatever, and one of the associates or partners sort of like when, you know, kind of like came to the, to the our area and kind of like a little bit on a panic, you know, and saying, you know, can anyone draw? Can anyone create a sketch? You know, we need, we have a presentation tomorrow and the render. Something happened, we don't, and we don't have it and blah, blah, can anyone sort of like. And I was like, I raised my hand and I said, I can draw, I can do something. And I made some sketches for a presentation in the next day. And then the next day I get called to Bob's office and he goes, did you do those sketches? And I said, I did. And he said, okay, you're going to sit over there and you're going to work over here now. And they pull me out of the model paper folding factory, folding factory, and put me sitting with one of the associate partners. And that kind of like sped things up, you know, for me a little bit. The fact that I could express myself in that way and translate, you know, what people were thinking into 3D. And that was just like one of the fun stories of Bob's.
- [10:08]
Interviewer
Well, and so you had caught his eye and it, it, it somehow fast tracked you, right? And. Yes, and. But it wasn't, it wasn't enough for.
- [10:21]
Dennis Scully
You, if I recall.
- [10:22]
Andre Malone
Well, I was, listen, I was very happy, you know, with, with what I was doing and very grateful and very thankful, even though it was grueling. And I mean, I didn't have a minute for myself. And I remember, like, I had been in New York for three years and I had never gone out or met friends or, you know, I just, you know, my life became the office. No, but the thing is that this thing about leaving Bob and maybe having a little bit of change of direction, it also happened by chance. It was. I went to a party at moma, some sort of like drinks, a benefit or whatever. You know, while there, I met a couple of guys that were working for.
- [11:07]
Interviewer
Markhampton, the legendary designer Mark Hampton.
- [11:10]
Andre Malone
Legendary, like, talk about legendary, right? And we started talking. I started talking to these guys who are still my friends, and one of them is Markham Roberts, you know, very famous, you know, very famous interior designer. We have, we have, we have, we have Nicknames for each other, which I won't repeat.
- [11:30]
Interviewer
Oh, I wish you would. All right, we'll talk about that off the air.
- [11:36]
Andre Malone
But, you know, he's like, hey, we are looking for somebody who's like, in between architecture and interiors and blah, blah, blah, and I think he would love to work for us. And I took the. I took the meeting very skeptical. You know, I never in a million years would have imagined that I. That I would be doing anything with decorating, you know, with. With upholstery and curtains and rugs. You know, it's something that when you study architecture and you come from, that mindset is almost like a heresy. You know, you don't. It's. You don't talk about it. You don't think about it. It's like space and light, you know, supposed to exist by itself, and. You know what I mean? And it's like, oh, my God, if we only didn't need, you know, a chair.
- [12:23]
Interviewer
If only we didn't need all that pesky furniture.
- [12:27]
Andre Malone
Exactly.
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Interviewer
Window treatments.
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Andre Malone
Exactly. You almost don't want to think about it.
- [12:32]
Interviewer
So it ruins the space.
- [12:34]
Andre Malone
No. So I felt like I was taking this meeting with Mark Hampton. I was. I was, like, being. You know, it was almost like I was cheating on my husband, you know? But anyway, so there I went, very skeptical. Talk to Mark. But then there was Mark. And Mark absolutely sort of seduced me. He. He knew everything about everything else. I mean, not only about architecture and design and film and music and. Oh, you want to talk boss or not? Nova. Let's talk Boston Nova. And then talk to Carlos Jobing. And, I mean, he totally seduced me. And I said, I want to work with this guy. So I. I quit. Bob was furious. You know, he said furious.
- [13:17]
Interviewer
Right. I mean, he thought you were making the mistake of your life.
- [13:21]
Andre Malone
The biggest mistake of my life, you know, and he used this very. He used this very derogatory word. Decorator. You know, he's like, I can't believe you're gonna go work for a decorator.
- [13:33]
Interviewer
As if that was the biggest insult that he could hurl.
- [13:36]
Andre Malone
Right, Exactly. You know, so that's the first time that I heard it, you know, in that. Spoken in that manner, you know, a decorator. So I was like, well, I don't know, Bob, I'm sorry. I need to do this, you know, and it was that. And, you know, I had a. It was short. It was like a year and a half, but. And working with Alexa and. Who was a baby, you know, at the time, and. And yes. And Markham and this other guy, Luca, and we had like a pre fun team and we're very close and tight knit and I had a great time.
- [14:16]
Interviewer
I'm sure you did. I'm sure there were golden days. I mean, sadly, Mark was going to be in declining health, as it turned out.
- [14:23]
Andre Malone
Yeah, he was. So Mark, you know, through the time that I was there, you know, was ill and you know, eventually, you know, went to the hospital and wasn't. It was. He wasn't as present at the end, you know, and it's one of those things that you don't really realize what just happened after it's over. Like afterwards, I'm like, wow, I just spent a year and a half working with Mark Hanton, you know, and it was amazing. It was, it was incredible.
- [14:49]
Dennis Scully
Well, and I wonder.
- [14:50]
Interviewer
And I was, I was going to wait until we got through all the legendary figures that you worked with, but I'm, but I'm so curious what you learned from, I mean, as intense as I know it was working for Robert a.m. stern, what you felt you learned there, what you felt you took away from working with the incredible Mark Hampton and fooling around with Alexa and Markham, which are such a fun group. I mean, I wonder how it shaped your thinking or what you feel you really took away from it.
- [15:26]
Andre Malone
It's a clear answer for me. I mean, at Bob's, it was very, you know, we learned how to, how to tell the story of a design, of a design intention, you know, how to draw a sheet, where to put the plan, where to put the elevations, you know, how to work with scale, how to work with line weight. Bob was really a school about creating the, creating the expression of how to tell the story to sell or design, you know, to kind of to, to explain your intention. You know, that was really an amazing school. There was a very, it was very regimented. There was a very regimented way of doing things. It was great, you know, and it was a, it was a great lesson. And then Mark, it was all about the conversation and the charm and you know, in lifestyle, you know. You know, it was one thing that it was this very distinct difference between working for an architect and working for this mega legendary decorator. The architects are all about the technical and the discipline and the scientific right. And the decorator, you know, when I use this word as a, as a, as a compliment, not as a, not as a pejorative is the lifestyle. You know, he understood how his clients lived, you know, and, and that is something that is because he lived it Himself. And that is something that is. Is really important. It really. It makes a mark on you because what is it, right? What is design other than really understanding how people want to live, you know, and how people live? And that was. That was. That was Mark.
- [17:16]
Dennis Scully
Yeah.
- [17:17]
Interviewer
And then. So after Mark Hampton and I don't know how you ended up going to work for Greg Jordan, if that was another connection that was made or.
- [17:27]
Andre Malone
Yeah, I actually had a big stint at Ferguson Shawamian. Who were are these incredible more traditionalists? Right. Like, you know, these guys can do a classical building better than anyone else because actually they were working in some projects with Mark Hampton. So that. That seemed like a natural switch for me in. And I felt like there I was kind of like playing a little bit of both roles. I was back at Stern, in a sense, but doing ultra classical, more decorative, more ornate work, you know, So I felt like I was being like a little bit of both at Ferguson. And they gave me a lot of freedom. They let me design, they let me create presentations, and. And I actually worked for them for a long time. And the thing about Greg, it was. It was a whole Southern thing.
- [18:23]
Interviewer
Yeah.
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Andre Malone
Also that I had. Haven't had an exposure to it, you know, so it was something interesting to. To learn and to, you know, to understand the whole vibe. It was. No, it was great.
- [18:37]
Interviewer
Well, and I mean, it was so interesting that you went. So after Mark, you went to Ferguson shmami. And then suddenly you were back in that architectural world again and then left to go to Greg Jordan. And I'm thinking, what is taking you so long to go out on your own?
- [18:55]
Andre Malone
Right. Well. And so going back to our conversation about business school early with my dad is because I never thought I had it in me to. To be able to be my own business, you know, it was something very scary. I mean, it is still scary. I never thought I had it in me, you know, to be able to do. To do it. I trust my. Myself 100% in my ability to. To create. You know, that is a. That is a gift that, you know, I'm thankful every day that it comes. It comes to me. My mind doesn't run dry. But you switch that to the ability of being a businessman and charging properly and keeping hours and, you know, and understanding my value or being able to almost like, you know, send a voice without apologizing to my clients, you know, and I'm a disaster, you know, it is a challenge. Still is, you know, so that's why it was taking me so long, because I knew that I could do the work. I just didn't know or didn't understand that I could do it on my own.
- [20:13]
Dennis Scully
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- [21:03]
Interviewer
You go and work for a Robert a.m. stern alum, right, in Sawyer Burson and Brian Sawyer. And is he encouraging you to go out on your own? Is he saying, you can do it, Irene, or.
- [21:17]
Andre Malone
I mean, no. And that's the funny thing, because Brian is one of my closest friends and still is, you know, a true mentor. He and I. I mean, I love him. He's one of my closest friends. And I thought at the time, well, okay, maybe this is really the right thing to do, you know, because, you know, we're so close, and. And I really understand Brian's aesthetic, and I think he understands mine. And I said, this is going to be the perfect situation finally, you know, like, where I, you know, I love this guy. How fun is it going to be to design together and to work together and all of that. And what happened? And it was. For the time that it lasted. It was. But what started to happen was that I started to see a person that is so similar to me and so close to me that I have such sort of great friendship and respect doing it. And that inspired me, you know, And I said, well, if he can do it, I can do it. And it was just that. It was just seeing Brian so intimately, being a businessman and running a business, that it ended up inspiring me. And I remember he's like. I remember when I walked into his office, you know, and he's like, don't. He's like, don't tell me you're gonna.
- [22:36]
Interviewer
No.
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Andre Malone
And I said, I know. And he's like. And I said, brian, I can't help it. Like, I see you working every day, you know, And I. All of a sudden, I just. I just realized. I was like, I want to do this, too. I can do it. You know, Brian and I parted Very amicably, and we're still best friends.
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Interviewer
So when you finally did go out on your own, did you have a great big project to take with you, or did you have things that were bubbling up? I mean, what was the very beginning? In your 40s?
- [23:10]
Andre Malone
Should we.
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Interviewer
Should we tell that?
- [23:11]
Andre Malone
I mean, Exactly. In my mid-40s, I didn't have a big job. I didn't have anyone saying, come do this for me. I just quit. And I said, I'm going to enjoy or I'm going to try to enjoy the space of being by myself. And the first thing that I did, obviously it was the one thing that I could do well, was to offer sketching services to other designers. So I quit. I quit my job at Brian Sawyer, at Sawyer Burson, and then I started to charge them for my scans. And Stephen Gambro and William and Bill Georges and a bunch of big guys and Ralph Lauren. Alfredo Paredes. Sure. Yeah. Everyone wanted a sketch. And with Ralph was interesting because they used to use me to present new projects to Ralph. So I was very proud of that. So it's like, oh, we're gonna do this big new mansion on Madison. So we need to create a really interesting, beautiful, sexy watercolor to show to Ralph so he approves the project. And that's what I did. And so then I'm like, okay. So I sent an invoice, and I charge for my. For my sketches. And that's how I started.
- [24:40]
Interviewer
Well, so. And did that. And that just suddenly opened a lot of doors for you and.
- [24:44]
Andre Malone
Yeah.
- [24:44]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [24:45]
Andre Malone
So it was like, oh, you're doing this? And. Oh, great. And then my ex partner and I got a new apartment. So it was like, well, why don't you do it? So I did our home, and then our home got photographed, and it was like in. In Casa Vogue in Brazil. And then. And then we redecorated a few times, and it got shot a few times, and it got published. And then that led to all the phone calls, and then that's. That's kind of how it started.
- [25:10]
Dennis Scully
Well, so tell me how you.
- [25:12]
Interviewer
How you think about your style. Because, I mean, you and. You and I were talking recently, and often people will use words like masculine or strong when they talk about your work. I think even your client, Lauren Santa Domingo talked about that.
- [25:28]
Dennis Scully
Right.
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Interviewer
In her project that was just published. Like, that was part of the woods and the Dark woods and all of that. Feel. I mean, tell me how you think about it. And I feel like your father certainly had a big influence. Yes. And the Things you saw when you were young that he was doing. I mean, tell me.
- [25:48]
Andre Malone
Yeah, there's no question I was influenced by all that. And that was like, that was what was instilled on me. And whether you want to call it masculine and, you know, I mean, those terms are so misinterpreted these days, but it's like, that's the thing.
- [26:06]
Interviewer
Does that feel dated or does that feel like an obtuse way to describe it?
- [26:10]
Andre Malone
I mean, no, I. No, I. Between you and me, I love it. You know, I have no problem being called masculine. No, and it's, it's. It's kind of ironic, you know, to me, because I was the sensitive kid, you know, who, you know, who was bullied and who, you know, it took a while to sort of come in into my own. And so all of a sudden that, you know, I'm defined as a, as a masculine designer. I think it's, you know, if anything is like, oh, okay, like I wasn't, I wasn't allowed that when I was younger, you know, so this is great. I'm very proud of it. But I feel like the influences for sure, you know, their mid century design, that kind of stuff, you know, that kind of relationship with form and function and mature materiality. And is this time when people were concerned about a simplicity of form? You know, they weren't so into ornament or anything that felt like frivolous or anything like, you know, those are the principles that were unintentionally, like, instilled on me just by being in the surrounding that I grew up. So I'm very proud and honored that that comes out, you know, into what I do. But I think, I think more than anything is, is also the architect in me. It's always helping me make the decisions. You know, it's. I see things very geometrically. I see things very. I think of a room as a, you know, the golden proportion and the golden rectangular, the golden square. And then I start imagining furniture pieces as cubes and spheres and pyramids. And for me, it's like, you know, everything starts that way, you know, so I'm not embarrassed or annoyed, you know, at all about all of that. And I just feel like, you know, I love when people see that and want to explore that, you know. You mentioned Lauren. Yeah, it was very. I was surprised, you know, like, I haven't met Lauren before many times. You know, I met her socially a couple of times, and I think I knew her sort of like her personality, her social Persona, this fashion sort of Icon. And everything that I had scene that had to do with like her interiors and her environments, you know, had more of a. It's ultra chic and ultra refined, you know, more of a traditional vibe. Right. So when she approached us and she's like, I want to do mid century masculine, I was like, wow, that is a. That is a side of you that, you know, I don't think people have seen it. And, you know, I think she brought the best out of in us.
- [29:05]
Interviewer
Well, and it sound as if. And this is a project that we should tell listeners it was Jackson Hole project and it's the December cover of Architectural Digest, since this is just happening just so recently. So here you are, the COVID of Architectural Digest, and I'm assuming that all sorts of people are reaching out to you. And I'm always curious in this day and age, what happens for you when this happens. I was just recently chatting with Brooke and Steve Gianetti and talking about when Jennifer Garner is suddenly on the COVID of Architectural Digest and taking them on a tour of the house that they did with her and how their world blows up. And I'm wondering how it is for you and what happens?
- [29:56]
Andre Malone
I don't know yet. You know, the answers that I don't know yet. But I have to say, the phone seems to. The phone seems to ring constantly. You know, it's. It. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less, but it's kind of always ringing and. And maybe they will ring more and they would ring, you know, with different people. I don't know. But, you know, I'm. I feel very blessed that, you know, when some projects are finishing, they're all of a sudden they're amazing other opportunities that show in front of us that, you know, that we take. And I'm very grateful and very thankful that it's. We seem to have a decent cadence of interest, you know, and I. I don't know exactly. Exactly what to all that, but, you know, I am the worst in terms of showing up to. Showing up to events, to rsvp.
- [30:56]
Interviewer
I didn't want to say that, but.
- [30:57]
Dennis Scully
I got that sense.
- [30:59]
Interviewer
Andre. I don't. You know, if you're out there pushing yourself forward enough, I don't know.
- [31:05]
Andre Malone
No. And I never. I've only recently started speaking with a PR firm of actually friends of mine who, you know, I think we're gonna do something together. But I never spoke to a principle company. I never. I never knew exactly what am I supposed to be doing, what I'm not supposed to be Doing. Am I supposed to be doing this? Am I supposed to be showing that photo? Am I. I'm the king of, like, you know, I play on my own Instagram, and I'm the king of, like, post and erase and, you know, and embarrass yourself and then take it out and, you know, and I am. No, I am that person. But thankfully, every once in a while, I finished something, and I'm grateful enough that I have very talented photographers and stylists that want to work with us. And then we create some pretty great images, and I'm able to throw that in front of an editor, and they say, okay, we'll publish. So it's been kind of like that. We'll see. We'll see if there's going to be any change. I am feeling a little bit of a need for a little bit more structure.
- [32:16]
Interviewer
Well, and it looks great. So, I mean, congratulations on all of that, and I hope that lots of good things come as a result. Going back to. So you leave all these illustrious firms that you worked for, you suddenly get all of these different jobs. Tell me how you started to think about the firm you wanted to build. Tell me how you wanted Studio Malone to feel after all the experiences you've had, good and bad.
- [32:50]
Andre Malone
I still don't have an idea that is perfectly formed in my mind about what I want my firm to be. For so long, it was, I want to create portfolio. I want to. Anything that people give me, I will do it, you know, and I'll make it look as good as I can, because I want to have something to show. And that was my mindset for a long time. Then it started to change a little bit, you know, and I. I realized maybe there's a little bit more discernment, you know, there's a little bit more, okay, maybe I could do this, you know, maybe I could do that. Maybe I could do a better project here, maybe, you know, and it started to change, and. And I don't. I don't know yet, you know, I don't know if I want to be. We are currently seven people. We're small, much smaller than what people think we are, you know, and people think we're 15, 20 people and we're not. Right? And see, I don't know if I want to keep it at this level, if I want to be 15, if I want to be 20, if I want to be 50, you know, or what kind of projects I want to do. It's an ongoing question, you know, and it's a question that it's a bit pressing because I want to have a clear path and I want to define my path. And I have a moment, I have a moment now to think about where do I want to go. We're actually moving offices for the first time in 10 years. And I'm super as stressed and worried about the move and the costs and this and that. I am very excited also. You know, I'm designing my dream office. You know, I'm designing a place that for me is like the place that I feel I'll be most creative, you know, and the ones around me. So it's like, what's next for us? You know, what's, what's in the future? You know, whatever we do, right. And I feel like I. I love a good New York apartment. You know, we do those so well, right. I'm a New Yorker. I love New York. I love that. Now we've done stuff in Los Angeles, we've done stuff in Jackson Hole, we've done stuff in Miami. We're working on a ground up, absolutely gorgeous new house growing that's going to go up in the outskirts of Baltimore. We are working in a big, big important architectural commission in Philadelphia. So we're expanding the scope of our projects and the importance of our projects, you know, so I definitely want to continue, you know, in that, in that direction. I have a big dream and if anyone is listening, here we go. Okay, please. Yeah, please call me. I am an architect and I want to do a building. I want to do a ground up building, whether it's an apartment building, whether it's a resort, whether it's a beautiful house in the country or in the city, you know, so that is something that is definitely on my list and I'm going to make it happen. I want to exercise the architect, you know, in me. And the other thing that I really want to do that I haven't done yet in an organized manner is really design furniture and objects and rugs.
- [36:16]
Interviewer
Well, that's what I was wondering.
- [36:18]
Dennis Scully
I mean, where are the collections?
- [36:20]
Interviewer
Where are the. Right.
- [36:21]
Andre Malone
I mean, it's all in a bunch of like crunched up trace paper, you know, in a drawer here. And I just need to get it together and do it.
- [36:32]
Interviewer
Have you, have you shown it to anybody?
- [36:34]
Andre Malone
Some of you.
- [36:34]
Interviewer
Some of the things that you.
- [36:36]
Andre Malone
No, not really. I'm protective of it. You know, that's a great way to.
- [36:43]
Interviewer
Get it done, get it produced, is to be super protective of it and not show it to anyone. That's a great way to get the.
- [36:48]
Andre Malone
Work out there, work has been a great exercise for that, specifically because every project we design something custom, whether it's a sofa, whether it's a table, whether it's a rug. So I have hundreds of items that I have designed that are customized for my clients, that there's a line in there on top of everything. Me and my dad talk on a weekly basis. He sends me his sketches, I send him my sketches. There's all sorts of ideas, you know, coming up and no, we really want to do it well.
- [37:22]
Dennis Scully
And he's still working, right?
- [37:24]
Interviewer
I mean, we should say. I mean, like, he's. Yeah, that's amazing.
- [37:27]
Andre Malone
No, but my dad is. No, he's amazing. He's, you know, obviously he doesn't. Yeah, he doesn't have an office, like a big office full of people working for him like he used to. But you know, he'll be like, oh, a major five star hotel will call him and say, can you design, you know, the standard coffee table for every room? You know, and he would do that, you know, and he. So he still does very interesting, you know, things. And so that's definitely something that we want to do. We have a lot of people have approached us, you know, to do it.
- [37:58]
Dennis Scully
Who are you holding out for?
- [38:00]
Interviewer
Who's your, who's your dream? I mean, what.
- [38:02]
Andre Malone
I, I'm, I'm really not like, you know, I, it's not even that I have a. That figured out. It's literally lack of time.
- [38:10]
Interviewer
Okay. Okay.
- [38:11]
Andre Malone
So I, But I am going to get myself together because this is something that, these are ideas that have been bubbling in the back, you know, for a long time. And it's, and it's about time.
- [38:21]
Interviewer
So do we need to hire more people? I mean, I mean, I need to.
- [38:26]
Andre Malone
I need, I need to, I need to charge more. I think, I think, I think my fees are too low.
- [38:30]
Interviewer
There you go. There you go. Well, I mean, so speaking of that, I mean, because you were talking earlier about that was part of the struggle was could I, could I ask people what I'm really worth and could I.
- [38:46]
Dennis Scully
Write and all of that?
- [38:48]
Interviewer
And how have you grown into that? Has that gotten easier for you or do you still feel.
- [38:53]
Andre Malone
No, that is always a little bit of a struggle, but it's getting to a point that is a little bit easier. I've had through my career, had the, the opportunity to speak with some people that knew a little bit more about business, you know, than I did and that had advised us through time, you know, you need to be at this Level. You need to do it this way. You need to structure it this way. I've had, you know, some advice in the past, and I think we are at the moment sort of like advising ourselves again with people that I think are very good and have more of an objective and clear view into the industry more than us. And I feel like, you know, we're definitely trying to, to organize ourselves better in that, in that direction.
- [39:38]
Interviewer
Do you, do you wish now that you had gone to business school after all? Would that have facilitated.
- [39:44]
Andre Malone
Oh, my God, 100 of. My God, 100%.
- [39:46]
Interviewer
100%.
- [39:47]
Andre Malone
Don't you hate. Yeah. When you, when you, when your parents.
- [39:50]
Interviewer
Are right, it's the worst.
- [39:52]
Andre Malone
So the thing is that. Yes, for sure. Yes. But I'll tell you. I know and I don't listen. I have, I'm very lucky because my partner.
- [40:01]
Interviewer
Yes, Kevin. Let's give him a shout out.
- [40:03]
Andre Malone
Yes. Who is, has a finance background, who study finance and, you know, and definitely has that mindset, you know, is really, has been really helping and giving the business structure and has become a, you know, an essential part of business and the operation. I'm very lucky, you know, that I have that. But I don't feel like that era of, you know, the genius designer isolated, you know, in his desk while the doer and the shaker and the mega business person is doing all the business work and letting the other guy, you know, be with his sketches and, you know, and his nervous breakdowns and, you know, I don't think, I don't think that era exists anymore. I don't think you can afford not to be involved in your own business, even if you're like me, if you're not great at it, you know, so I'm saying this because, yes, I wish I maybe had gone to business school, but I know that no matter how much I try and no matter how much I can put my mind to it, I will never be as good of a businessman as I am a designer. There's, there's not a question in my mind.
- [41:28]
Dennis Scully
We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Leloi, whose newest introductions for all styles included new collections from collaborators Amber Lewis, Magnolia Home by Joanna Gaines and Rifle Paper company. Plus newly added one of a kind rugs, pillows and wall art. Visit loloyrugs.com to see them all. That's L O L O I rugs.com and loloyrugs on Instagram and TikTok. And now back to the show.
- [42:06]
Interviewer
It must be a Tremendous relief and take so much off of you to know that Kevin is there. And I know it's not easy introducing your life partner into the fir and having everyone figure that out. And I'm sure that's an adjustment and takes getting used to for everyone involved.
- [42:25]
Andre Malone
No, for sure. And it wasn't an easy decision. Obviously, anyone that would have common sense would have said, you're crazy. What are you guys doing? And this is a recipe for disaster. And understandably. And I think I would probably have said the same to a friend of mine. But a few people have said, I actually think it's a good idea. I actually think it's a great idea. People that I love, people that I respect and that I know love and respect me. And it's, you know, we started out with this thing of, you know, well, let's see if it works, you know, and let's, you know, let's start to think about it as a temporary thing, you know, and it has been almost two years and we haven't killed each other. And somehow we're able to sit across from each other and have a meal and enjoy each other's company and try to compartmentalize and have fun and not feel like we're completely smothering each other with everything. And I feel like, most importantly, also for me, is that he's inspired. You know, I am very happy with what I do, and I want him to be happy with what he does too. You know, he is managing an important interior design firm, and I. I hope that he's, you know, that is hitting the mark for him as well. And I. Which I think he is, you know, at least for now, you know, but it's. It's been really great and very special, very rewarding.
- [44:08]
Interviewer
Let's shift gears a little bit and talk about a couple of things. One, I'm wondering, the agony of the elections aside, I wonder if, in terms of how all of that impacts your business, there's been a sense, if nothing else, that a lot of people were anxious that we're just waiting to make big decisions until after the election was over. And you got the sense that now, at least, if nothing else, people have some clarity. Do you sense that as being important to your clients? Is there a sigh of relief that at least we know what's happening or how is it being received?
- [44:55]
Andre Malone
I'm not really sure I have to say. I. I try not to talk about politics.
- [45:01]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [45:02]
Andre Malone
You know, with the clients, advisably so. Yeah, exactly. I know my place, you know, and for the Most part, I am providing a service, you know, and I feel like the mistake that I see with some designers sometimes is that you feel like you're at the same level as your clients, you know, and you're this and you're that and you're traveling and, you know, the private jet and you're, you know, doing this and, and I think it's very important to keep it separate and to understand that ultimately we are providing a service. I have had conversations about politics with my clients when they initiate, when they want to talk, and I'm honest about my views and my inclinations. But to your question, I don't have clients that were that deeply concerned or deeply involved one way or another.
- [45:58]
Interviewer
No, no, of course. And I mean, and I think, and often, I think often that is the outsider's perspective of our industry as a whole, that we live in this very rarefied world. And I was having a conversation with a very high end designer the other day who was sharing with me that sometimes, particularly for younger staff members, the level of wealth or spending or privilege can seem almost disconcerting and a little overwhelming and one struggles to sort of come to terms with it and you have to find a way to be okay with it.
- [46:41]
Andre Malone
Yes, no, that is a very interesting and important question. I've had those thoughts myself, of course, but it, you know, but it took a while to also to, to get to the, to the other side of it, you know, where you kind of understand that it's really not much of our business, you know, how did our clients become who they are or whatever money that they might have or not have, et cetera. It's all my, it's all my, my space to, to judge it or to try to figure it out, you know, I would, you would never figure it out. You'll never know, you know, what, what's the story behind, you know, any such person, you know, but I, you know, for one, right, they, you know, the work that we do, support, supports us, supports me, supports my, my, my staff. And I'm sure that, you know, the way they live their lives and their lifestyles, you know, they support many other people, you know, so it's easy to say, oh, this is absurd. And you know, this is so extravagant and this is so crazy. But you, you know, you can also think the other way and think how many jobs, you know, any such thing is generating, how many, how many people they are actually feeding. You know, so I, I try not to be judgmental and cavalier about these things and about, you know, I Don't you know, I don't, I don't judge my clients for being rich.
- [48:14]
Interviewer
No, I don't, I don't see what good would, would come of it. But I, but I, I do, I do understand sometimes how people look at our world. And I, and I say, well, yes, there are two thousand dollar throw pillows and yes, and that does, that does exist. And, and it's, it's funny even the way the, if you look at an article in the Wall Street Journal and they'll say, oh, and they had, they had this expensive chair and it was $800. And I'm thinking $800 is not an expensive chair, you know. You know, so.
- [48:42]
Andre Malone
No, absolutely. And I think like to, to that as well is, and you're right, you know, that there are things that are like, seem obscene and you know, but that doesn't mean that has to be the goal, the ultimate goal and the only goal in terms of, in terms of design. I think we are designers, we are artists. So obviously if you want to do something, you know, quote unquote couture, you know, that is, that uses the most expensive materials, that uses the most intricate techniques that, you know, that is a wonderful thing to do and a wonderful way of expressing creativity, right? But you also have to think ready to wear pr, you know, so one doesn't stop the other. And in my mind, and in my opinion, you have to be able to do both. You know, we can be intimidated by the outrageous and the extravagant and the expensive and the. Because that has a role to be played. There's a, there's a role to be played there, there's a creative role that is, has to be expressed. You know, what is the human mind capable of if you have no stops? Right? That is one end of it, you know, the other end of it is, you know, how can I create beauty with little, you know, with, with this much as well, you know, so you have to, you have to, you have to have both.
- [50:14]
Interviewer
Yeah, no, no, it makes sense. I was having a conversation recently with someone who was talking about his frustration that so many people still don't see the value in working with an interior designer, for example, and they have plenty of money, but they just don't. And either they've had a bad experience or they think we make things too complicated. And I wonder when you think about that issue, what is it that you think that we could make easier or less complicated or what can seem overwhelming to your clients? Sometimes, I guess is part of my question.
- [51:00]
Andre Malone
Sometimes we have the reputation that we're that person who's going to be like, nothing is right and everything needs to start from zero and scratch everything. And this is. And this is awful, and this needs to be new, and that needs to be new. And there's no way we can reuse that chair. And, you know, there is a little bit of that. I think interior designers do get a bad rap, you know, unfortunately. But, you know, I'm not. And I always tell my clients, I'm not that guy. And I'm not the one who's going to tell you, oh, no, if you want to keep that chair, forget about it. You know, I'm not going to work with you.
- [51:41]
Interviewer
Right.
- [51:41]
Andre Malone
I think that there's a. It's. It's almost like a blood sport quality a little bit to what we do right now that, you know. Oh, if the. Oh, forget. If the. If you're not mixing the paint with crushed amethyst. Oh, no, no, no. I mean, you know, it's. You know, you're not doing it right. You know, it's just an excess sometimes that is not based on anything. And. And I can see why. Why people say, I don't want to do it, but I think that hopefully there are a lot of other guys like me and guys and guys and girls and that you, you know, things don't need, you know, and. Oh, my God, I'm going to say something like. And maybe like, the interior designers are going to. Going to say, what. What the hell is he talking about? I don't. I don't think that things need to be perfect. You know what I mean?
- [52:32]
Interviewer
Yeah, tell me about that.
- [52:33]
Andre Malone
Yeah, I. I feel like actually is the opposite, you know, I feel like things are supposed to be imperfect, you know, and not everything. You know, obviously, if you look at, like, a photo shoot and something that is printed, you know, I mean, if you. If, you know, if people would even understand the gymnastics that we do to accomplish those images. You know, you literally sometimes read layout. An entire room just so the angle looks right, you know, like it's completely artificial. Right. I feel like in reality, the environments and the interiors, the rooms that I. That always excite me the most is when obviously there's a. There's an absolute structure of style, you know, that holds everything together. But within that structure, there's imperfection. There's something that is out of place. There's a piece of paper on the floor. There's a dead flower, you know, on a face. There's a little bit of, like, mess that I feel Is expressive of, like, people's lives and reality and, you know, and that's how it is. So I'm never. I'm never shy of, like, you know, when my clients go, you know, know, let's stop now, you know, we. We've done enough, you know, let's live like this for, like, you know, let's live like this for a year, you know, because I can see other. Other people going, no, you know, that still needs to be right. And that chair. And I have this conversation constantly with my clients. You know, it's. It's always like, let's, you know, let's take a break. You know, I think it looks great. And I feel like that that's one interior should be. It's not about creating perfection. It's. It's about. It's about creating an emotion. You know, it's. It's. It's energy. And I could never, you know, and I could never work with people like that. You know, people that want their houses to be perfect the whole time.
- [54:35]
Interviewer
Like, those aren't your people.
- [54:36]
Andre Malone
No. No. And I don't know, maybe. Maybe, I mean, I'll be more successful. Maybe I'll be richer, you know, if I. But I know I. I'm not that guy. I. And it took. It took me a long time, actually, to realize that I could. I could actually be an interior designer thinking that way, which seems, you know, the antithesis of what we do.
- [55:01]
Interviewer
And. Are you. And are you highly selective about your.
- [55:04]
Dennis Scully
Your clients?
- [55:05]
Interviewer
In part with that in mind, I.
- [55:08]
Andre Malone
Feel like there is a kind of like a dating process. And, you know, sometimes you're wrong. I don't know, like. But I feel like, for the most part, we kind of understand each other. And there is kind of like, you know, you either vibe or you don't. There's always needs to be some sort of relationship that. At least for me, that's when I do my best work, when I. When I feel more intimately involved.
- [55:31]
Interviewer
Well, and I know that you've. You've shared with me in the past that sometimes maybe you even develop a little bit of a crush on some of the plants.
- [55:39]
Andre Malone
I mean. Oh, my God. Terrible crushes. You know, sometimes, like, you know, I can't even, like, you know, I get, like, I get sweaty and shaky when they. When they. When they come to the office and I can look them straight in the eye. Yes, that's. That's really bad. What. It happens sometimes. I mean, what can I do?
- [55:56]
Interviewer
And just. And does that inspire you to do great work?
- [55:59]
Andre Malone
Oh, My God, that's when I do my best work.
- [56:04]
Interviewer
Well, I love that. I love that you have a crush on some of them. Separate and apart from all this work stuff that we've just talked about. Tell me, tell me if there's something that you're obsessed with lately or that you're enjoying or finding pleasure, assuming you get some break from all the work. To you, Is there, is there a book, is there a show? Is there a. Something that gives you an escape that you're enjoying?
- [56:32]
Andre Malone
Oh, my God. I mean, there isn't. Like, I don't have a new obsession. I don't, but I feel like I'm always, like, I'm always on a rotation with my existing obsessions, you know, which usually happens. Yeah. Which. Which usually have to do with movies. You know, I'm. I'm. I feel like, you know, half of my life I live in movies. You know, movies are everything, you know, to me. I am. I'm an 80, I'm an 80s kid. Right. So I'm a little bit of like a sci fi nerd, you know, but like good sci fi, like old Ridley Scott movies.
- [57:11]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [57:12]
Andre Malone
But also absolutely obsessed with anything done by Hitchcock. Like, I know basically every Hitchcock movie by heart, you know, frame by frame, color by color. Like, so I get having to those rotations sometimes. I also love black and white samurai movies, you know, a lot of like Akira Kurosawa. Sure. Absolutely obsessed. Like, you know, and there's like, for me, there's no better night than just like staying home and smoking a joint and watching and watching old movies.
- [57:52]
Interviewer
That sounds like a. That sounds like a great night. Does any of the. Does any. Do any of the great Hitchcock sets ever show up in your. In your work? I mean, he was such a stylish director and I mean.
- [58:03]
Andre Malone
No, I think I get clues probably. Probably in every project. You know, there's always like, you know, whether there's like a tufting detail from a sofa that I saw, you know, in a Hitchcock movie or, you know, the way you're gonna like, you know, cover something in a fabric, you know, that reminds me of, you know, things that I. There's. I'm. I'm constantly getting my ideas from movies. Constantly.
- [58:31]
Interviewer
Oh, I love that. And I love that you love Hitchcock movies, especially some of the best stuff ever made. Okay, this has been an enormous pleasure. Again, my apologies to Kevin and your other half for keeping you for so long. But thank you so much for your time and I'm excited for all that is about to come.
- [58:53]
Andre Malone
No, Dennis, this is great. Thank you so much.
- [58:58]
Dennis Scully
Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us online@businessofhome.com where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings, and join our BOH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a line@podcastusinessofhome.com if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicholas and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.