Benjamin Noriega-Ortiz: 'Designers need to learn to take the blame'

Summary

Business of Home Podcast: Benjamin Noriega-Ortiz on Leadership and Design Philosophy

Episode Title: Benjamin Noriega-Ortiz: 'Designers need to learn to take the blame'
Host: Dennis Scully
Release Date: February 10, 2025

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1. Introduction to Benjamin Noriega-Ortiz

The episode begins with Dennis Scully introducing Benjamin Noriega-Ortiz, a renowned architect and designer known for his work with high-profile clients and boutique hotels. Benjamin shares insights from his illustrious career, emphasizing the importance of leadership and responsibility in design.

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2. Early Career and Breakthrough with Lenny Kravitz ([02:49] - [11:47])

Benjamin recounts a pivotal moment in his career involving the design of the 30 Crosby Street building. He narrates an encounter with musician Lenny Kravitz, who approached him to design his residence.

Notable Quotes:

• Benjamin Noriega-Ortiz ([02:49]):
  "I want to jump in and just share one of my favorite stories with you, which is the point in your career that you work on the 30 Crosby street building and you complete the project and you're approached by a fellow named Lenny Kravitz, who I don't think that name meant much to you at the time, if I recall."

• Lenny Kravitz ([05:50]):
  "Armani's not gonna show up to the meetings. I will."

Benjamin details how this collaboration not only elevated his firm's reputation but also led to subsequent projects with other celebrities and high-profile clients. The partnership with Kravitz opened doors to designing for iconic names like Ian Schrager, eventually contributing to the creation of the Mondrian Hotels.

Key Insights:

• Building Relationships: Establishing trust and clear communication with clients is crucial.
• Leveraging Opportunities: Collaborations can significantly expand a firm's portfolio and reputation.

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3. Lessons from Working with John Celadino ([23:28] - [29:06])

Benjamin delves into his experience working under the mentorship of the legendary John Celadino. He highlights the importance of understanding a client's vision and the delicate balance between creativity and business acumen.

Notable Quotes:

• Lenny Kravitz ([25:16]):
  "Somebody has to make a decision. The clients come to you to make decisions... your decision can cost millions of dollars."

• Lenny Kravitz ([28:29]):
  "I learned that with John. That's the way he thought. He kept saying that. Put yourself in the room. Are you in the room? What do you see."

Key Insights:

• Taking Responsibility: Designers must be willing to take the blame and make decisive choices.
• Client Psychology: Understanding and managing client expectations is essential for success.

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4. Business Strategies and Firm Growth ([29:16] - [43:33])

Benjamin discusses the challenges of scaling a design firm, especially when transitioning from smaller residential projects to large-scale hotel designs. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining a manageable team size and leveraging joint ventures with architectural firms to handle complex projects.

Notable Quotes:

• Lenny Kravitz ([33:07]):
  "I want to investigate more in design. I want to get the design to be a little bit lighter, not so formal."

• Lenny Kravitz ([42:24]):
  "If we cannot design the hotel with three, four or five people, we're not doing it."

Key Insights:

• Strategic Scaling: It's vital to scale the firm sustainably without overextending resources.
• Collaborative Partnerships: Forming joint ventures can help manage larger projects without expanding the internal team excessively.

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5. The Role of Artificial Intelligence in Design ([43:33] - [44:55])

Benjamin shares his apprehensions about the increasing role of AI in the design industry. He argues that while AI can handle technical tasks, it undermines the creative and imaginative aspects essential to design.

Notable Quotes:

• Lenny Kravitz ([43:38]):
  "I hated it. Taking your mind away from designing. You are subjugated to a computer making a decision for you."

• Lenny Kravitz ([44:34]):
  "I think imagination might go away because if you don't have to imagine things, your brain is not gonna use anything."

Key Insights:

• Preserving Creativity: Designers must retain the imaginative and subjective elements of their work despite technological advancements.
• Human Element: The essence of design lies in human creativity, which AI cannot replicate.

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6. Storytelling in Design ([53:08] - [56:04])

Benjamin explains his unique approach to design by creating a comprehensive story for each project. This narrative guides the design process, ensuring coherence and alignment with the client's vision, even if the story isn't always explicitly shared with the client.

Notable Quotes:

• Lenny Kravitz ([53:18]):
  "We design a story that for residential or for hotels or for stores in hotels, we disclose that the story because it helps in the marketing of the hotel."

• Lenny Kravitz ([55:30]):
  "Every client teaches you something."

Key Insights:

• Conceptual Framework: Developing a story provides a foundation for design decisions, enhancing the overall coherence of the project.
• Client Relationships: Maintaining discretion about the underlying narrative ensures the client's personal preferences are respected while upholding the design's integrity.

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7. Future Plans and Firm Sustainability ([56:04] - [59:14])

Towards the end of the episode, Benjamin discusses the future trajectory of his firm. He emphasizes flexibility, allowing his team to work remotely, and maintaining a relaxed yet productive work environment. While unsure about long-term plans, he envisions his firm continuing to evolve and adapt to the changing design landscape.

Notable Quotes:

• Lenny Kravitz ([57:06]):
  "Now it's all about what we do. And as we continue, we're getting projects, we just continue working on it."

• Lenny Kravitz ([58:58]):
  "We dismantled the office and started working from home."

Key Insights:

• Adaptability: Embracing remote work and flexible office setups can enhance productivity and employee satisfaction.
• Sustainable Growth: Focusing on enjoyable and meaningful projects ensures long-term engagement and satisfaction for both the firm and its clients.

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8. Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reflection on Benjamin Noriega-Ortiz's journey, highlighting his leadership qualities, design philosophy, and the importance of taking responsibility in decision-making. His insights offer valuable lessons for aspiring designers and seasoned professionals alike.

Final Notable Quotes:

• Lenny Kravitz ([59:08]):
  "Oh, I don't think so. I mean, pay worked until he was 100."

• Benjamin Noriega-Ortiz ([59:20]):
  "It’s been such a pleasure."

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Key Takeaways

• Leadership and Responsibility: Effective designers must be willing to make and own decisions, fostering trust with clients.
• Client Relationships: Building strong, respectful relationships with clients leads to successful and repeat collaborations.
• Adaptability in Business: Sustainable growth involves strategic scaling and leveraging partnerships to manage larger projects.
• Preserving Creativity: While technology like AI can aid productivity, maintaining the human creative element is essential.
• Storytelling in Design: Crafting a narrative for each project ensures design coherence and aligns with the client's vision.

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For those interested in deepening their understanding of design leadership and business strategies within the interior design community, this episode offers invaluable insights drawn from Benjamin Noriega-Ortiz's extensive experience and thoughtful reflections.

Transcript

[Dennis Scully]

This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is architect and designer Benjamin Noriega Ortiz. After an idyllic childhood in Puerto Rico, Benjamin was set to pursue higher study in math. Instead he chose architecture and found himself working working for legendary New York designer John Celadino. After setting up his own firm in the 90s, Benjamin built a legend of his own, designing boutique hotels for Ian Schrager and homes for celebrities like Lenny Kravitz. I spoke with Benjamin about learning to design like a painter, how he trains architects to think like designers, and why he writes a story for every project but doesn't always tell the client. This podcast is sponsored by Ernesta, your destination for designer quality custom size rugs with a curated assortment of timeless colors, patterns and textures. Ernesta will deliver the right size rug in the style your client wants in only two to four weeks. And with Ernesta's exclusive trade membership benefits, you can get dedicated support, free unlimited samples and special discounts to help you achieve your clients design goals. To join Ernesta's Trade program, visit ernesta.com boh this podcast is also sponsored by Hickory Chair. Since 1911, Hickory Chair has been dedicated to blending the authenticity of classic craftsmanship with the precision of modern lean manufacturing in their Hickory, North Carolina workroom. Over the years, its collections have grown to include timeless designs, both modern and classic, drawn from iconic periods and places and brought to life by renowned designers like Suzanne Castler, Ray Booth, David Phoenix, Susan Hable, Kim Skodrow and Marriott Himes Gomez. In partnership with interior designers, trade showrooms and high end boutique stores, Hickory Chair's master craftsmen create bespoke furniture that reflects the designer's vision and is celebrated for creating luxurious yet livable furniture designed to stand the test of time. Visit Hickorychair.com to learn more. And now on with the show.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

I want to jump in and just share one of my favorite stories with you, which is the point in your career that you work on the 30 Crosby street building and you complete the project and you're approached by a fellow named Lenny Kravitz, who I don't think that name meant much to you at the time, if I recall.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yes, it didn't. Yeah, it didn't. I have to say, I grew up in a musical town in Puerto Rico. It's all about music, okay. And I learned the local music and you know, when I was growing up, international music, I was not really aware. The Beatles. I learned the Beatles when I moved here.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Later in life, when you came to.

[Lenny Kravitz]

America, I said, oh, yeah, I must have missed. They must have been around when I was in Puerto Rico. So Lenny Kravitz is somebody that I never in my life heard the name. So I had an office on Spring street and Crosby. And when I moved to. When we moved to Crosby street, there was not much going on in Soho at the time, in that area of soho. So my friend Red that rented a space and say, oh, you have to come and there's another one available. I want you to be with me. This is going to be great. He's a hardware manufacturer, er, butler. We leased a space at like $4 a square foot, you know, 5,000 square feet space. Half of it was yoga studio for me and things like that. It was really luxurious space. Luxurious.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

How nice that you could have.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I mean, we rented it from. Yes, something like that. So as it turned out, there was a. There's a small little bar called Enya, the letter N with a little thing on the top across the street from 30 Crosby. And a developer decided to buy that building to develop it into residential. And at the time, I don't know if it's still happening. You could only be an artist to live in Soho.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Yes, those are the days.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Those were the days. So. So he started, you know, he got the place and then he started interviewing people and then he got a hold of that. I was in the. In the neighborhood and he's Dominican and I'm Puerto Rican, so Spanish connection. So he came to my office, you know, she asked to come for an interview to see if we could do this project. So I went to see the project without him, just to see. It was down the street, literally one block down. So I went down there and I said, well, this. This could be really cool. So when he came back, talked to me and he said, you know, I'm in conversation with Armani to do this, you know. And I said, you know, let me just be clear with you. I live a block away. This is a perfect project for us. You get our money, you're not getting our money.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

So he's dangling the fact that he's thinking of hiring Giorgio Armani to do that.

[Lenny Kravitz]

You know what? You're never gonna get Armani, so don't even think about that. Now, you hire me, you get me personally. I mean, I have a staff, but I love this project.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Armani's not gonna show up to the meetings. I will.

[Lenny Kravitz]

So anyway, so he hired Me to do the lobby and the bathrooms and the kitchens and all the apartments. And so the apartment started selling. And then Courtney Love bought an apartment, and Kravitz bought an apartment and all these other musicians, artists. And then one day I was traveling with Stephen. I don't know, I think it was for his birthday. We went to Venice, and I get a call just a couple of days before that. Lenny Kravitz wanted to meet with me on. On Sunday, and I was arriving on Saturday. So I told my friend, the developer. I said, well, just tell him that I don't meet anybody on Sunday. This is. I mean, I'm gonna be coming back from a trip because I have to get ready. I'm not gonna meet anyway for Sunday. And then my. My husband overheard the name Lenny Kravitz. So I hung up the phone, and he says, what's Lenny Kravitz? What is that about? I said, well, they wanted me to meet some guy, Denny Kravitz, to do apartment. He said, you know who that is? He said, actually, I have no idea who he is. I said, will you call them back and tell them that, yes, you're gonna meet him on Sunday.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

You'll be happy to meet with him.

[Lenny Kravitz]

So I called back and I said, I'm sorry. I apologize. Yes, I'll meet you on Sunday. We came back on Saturday, and Sunday I go to the office to prepare my portfolio and everything. And then he shows up all fabulous and everything by himself, all alone, no entourage, all alone to the office. And first thing he says, I apologize that I had to meet you on Sunday because I have a concert on Monday. I was trying to move, but I couldn't.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

He's probably sold out at Madison Square Garden or something, right? But he couldn't move it, you know, I mean.

[Lenny Kravitz]

And he was the sweetest person, as always. He is. And so I started showing him my portfolio, and he said, no, no, no. I want you to design my place. I don't need to see anything. I saw what you did, and I want that. And then, you know, left. And then we started the next day. The next day, I just shut up. Contracts get written and everything. And then we started. It was really fascinating because. Started very, very quickly because the building was in construction, and I was involved in the construction. Remember that? I was doing all the apartments, right? So I already had the drawings of his apartment. I already had an idea what the apartment could be before he bought it.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

And he bought the penthouse in the.

[Lenny Kravitz]

In the building. Two floors and a roof. So it was two floors and half of the building. Actually this was the first building in soho that had a doorman with. With gloves.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

This is, this was a sign of it really getting gentrified in SoHo. Right when the. When the white gloved doorman. Building doorman with gloves.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yeah, that was unbelievable for soho. People would pass by and laugh like, look at that. Still there. And the lobby that we design is still there.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

It's still there. It's still there. And you start the project. And if I remember, the first thing that you ended up buying was this.

[Lenny Kravitz]

A piano. It was a piano. We had not even designed the concept of the interior. We haven't put it together yet. And then I'm walking down the street on Lafayette street and there was antiques, modern antique store down the basement. So I looked in the window, I see this clear acrylic piano. And I was with my husband. I said, doesn't Lenny like the 70s? That's like what he likes. You know, I see the bell buttons and everything is. Oh yeah, yeah. So I go down there and, and I say is this piano available? And yeah, yeah, this is belong to. It's from the state of Ickman Bourbon. And we just got it and it was like 100 and some thousand dollars. And so I said hold on one second, I think I have somebody for this. So I went outside in my flip phone, you know, the ones that used to be from Star Trek. So I called him up and I said, well, you know, sorry to bother you, but there's a spectacular clear piano in this store away. And he says, wait, I have a credit in that store.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

It's a nice house account. I'm going to go and try and use his name, see if I can.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Well, you know, he likes furniture. Yes, right. He was very passionate. It's very passionate. He collects furniture and he knows periods and everything. So it was not surprising to me that somebody like that would have. Will have credit in that store. So I said okay, fine. So that's piano started the design of the apartment. That was the first thing we bought and what a great time. And we did like three or four projects together.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

And you worked with him for years, right? I mean it was a relationship that.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Probably 2004, 5. Yeah, until he, until he did his own firm.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Did you ever tell him that in the beginning you had no idea who he was? Did you ever share that with him?

[Lenny Kravitz]

I think my husband did.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Your husband probably wanted to tease about that.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yeah, he's more into music. I don't. I mean I know who Taylor Swift is. And I know about Bunny, who they are, but. But he liked my husband, liked all that. This, the entourage going around like you, like, like Lenny could have a party. Like, could have a party. Call it. Call us at 2 in the morning. Hey, Naomi is here making chicken. Can you come? And I said, I said, stephen, Naomi said, Naomi. What? Well, I assume he's not the model.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm assuming, right? I mean, he drops Naomi.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I'm thinking, sure enough, show up, get dressed, and here's Naomi, Camel of Glamorous, making chicken. So I love all that. I mean, it was very exciting to be in that kind of like impromptu environment.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

This is just who they're hanging out with. They're just hanging out with supermodels. I mean, that's just right.

[Lenny Kravitz]

It is. That's the life that people live.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Yeah, well, and so did that was that part of what opened up this, this big world to you? You worked with lots of very well known clients.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yeah, I mean, I was starting to get. I had just finished work for Laura Skibel. That work she wrote like, like Water for Chocolate. So there was a lot of attention. Yeah, but Lenny, because Lenny knew so many people and the apartment actually was like a hotel. We designed it like a boutique hotel. A lot of the editors like, like when the good men that went to see it, she said, you know, you need to do hotels because this is really like a hotel. So I, the word went out and met with Ian Schrager for to do a hotel, to do the Gramercy. But then he said, you're not good for this, but I'll have another one for you. And then all of a sudden they created Morgan's Hotel Group and started branding the Mondrian hotels. So the first branding was in Arizona. So we ended up doing that one. And then as we're doing Arizona, then they gave us la, and then as we're doing la, they gave us New York. So it was all one after the other.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

And do you think the perception that people had of you. Yes. Your work, but also they see you hanging out with Lenny Kravitz, they see you with all of these people. Does that help to sort of buttress the image of you that people had in their heads?

[Lenny Kravitz]

Well, you know, marketing and publicity is really strange? I don't, I didn't hang out with them. I really didn't.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

I mean, you were over there a few times at 2 in the morning eating chicken, but sure.

[Lenny Kravitz]

But I know in public I will not be right. Right Doing that, because that's not my scene. I'm not. I kind of like oblivious to the whole celebrity thing because I see everybody. I see them as my clients.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Right.

[Lenny Kravitz]

And I can defer to them. And a lot of them, I cannot even mention who they are because nothing has been published. I mean, this one's that you mentioned that, you know, people know, but there's others that I can't. I can say. So that's one of the things that I think designers are entrusted to. To keep like the privacy of clients. Because we know. We know what's in your drawers. You know what's in your closet.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Yeah.

[Lenny Kravitz]

In the kitchen. We know what you do at what time of the day, because we have to design for it. Dealing with clients, you need a lot of psychology, because you need to. You have to be. To please so many people. You know, there's the husband, the wife or the husband and the husband and the wife or the wife. There's the CEO, and then there's a cfo. There's so that. So you constantly battling this, what you're going to say and what you're not going to say. And I've been very fortunate. My staff has always been very quiet about my clients. I imagine that Michael Smith that did the Obama White House, and he was working at Saladino when I was there. I imagine that they don't say a word about anything.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Yeah. No. And he's talked about that and how challenging that is. And he talked about how challenging it is to keep all of your vendors in line.

[Lenny Kravitz]

And they have to lies. You have to create new names.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Yeah.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Like, I think I told you before that Lenny always said, please don't use my name anywhere because I don't want the rockstar price. I want the regular people price.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

He didn't. He didn't want to be charged the rockstar price.

[Lenny Kravitz]

And you know what? And I learned that it's the case. A lot of vendors just think that because people are wealthy or famous, they overcharge. And I say, no, no, no, that's not the way it is. So anyway, so it's a fun thing to try to deal with it.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, I mean, it's interesting how it came to you and it's such a giant leap from your childhood in Puerto Rico. I'm sure part of you could never have imagined the world that you would end up working in that was so different from where you grew up.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Very, very different. I mean, I grew up in San Juan and Beach, so we, most of the time, we're on the beach, like, literally on the beach, like on the sand.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Right.

[Lenny Kravitz]

That's. We grew up. And then when we went to the country, the countryside, which is something that I mentioned in my. In my first book, is all green. It's all monochromatic. So all of that in, you know, affects my interiors and what we do for. For interiors. And it affects the way I deal with all the celebrities because, you know, I. The celebrities in my town were the guy that sells the ice cream, the guy that. The woman in the cafeteria in school that would give you extra milk. But then my family being politics, the other famous people were. People were in. In the government and. And I'm not politics at all. I'm not a politician at all. But over there in a small town, the word is out because my last name being Noriega and all, not the one from Panama, but the one from Puerto Rico.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and so who in the family was.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Was involved in. In politics?

[Lenny Kravitz]

One of my uncles was in the senate for about 30 years.

[Dennis Scully]

I see.

[Lenny Kravitz]

He's a cousin of my father. And then my brother, who passed away was in the Popular party. There's two parties. I think there's three now. So he was campaigning always for the. From town to town to town, plus the volleyball people. That was another thing.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, so I didn't realize that your father was a professional volleyball player.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yeah, when he was younger.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

But good. I mean, good for him because he was obviously athletic and also had the math skills. Because I was wondering, you were so good at math and science and he.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Always wanted me to be an accountant. He could not understand that I was going to study architecture.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Okay.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I wonder why are you studying. What is that? Because in Puerto Rico, architecture means engineers. Engineers are the ones that built architecture. When I studied architecture there, architecture was very fresh. Like, there were not that many architects. And my father said, you're not going to get any. Where are you going with this? Like, you're not going to get any money on this. And then when I finished my first master's and decided to do a second one, he said, well, well, that's a waste of money. Here you are going to study what? Urban design. What is that? So, you know, if he was alive, he could see that now I'm doing the bookkeeping for my own firm.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

He would see that you did develop your account.

[Lenny Kravitz]

He's probably looking from heaven down. Say, see? See, I told you. You're going to end up profession.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, well, I mean, it is so interesting because. And I can't remember when you took the year abroad. But that had such a huge impact.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Okay, 1980. Yeah. It was a requirement in school to spend at least like, three or four months in Europe. So a lot of us went to Europe because we love Italy and learn Italian. So we were. We stayed with families in Italy. And that changed the perspective of everything because it was the first time that I left home and we went to see. My favorite painter of all time is Caravaggio. So I went to see my first Caravaggio in Florence, and then I went to Rome when there's dozens. And I was in heaven. I was, like, looking at these paintings and crying because they're the real thing. I said, I'm seeing the real brushstrokes of these painters. This is where these people live. And there I was in Puerto Rico, passing. Pages were not even printed properly. You know, like, the color was incorrect. I don't know. It's very. It gets. It gets emotional. My husband makes fun of me about things like that.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Like, well, and you. And you learned to speak Italian fluently? Yes, Yes. I mean, and you really. I mean, you really immersed yourself in the culture. And it would come to serve you well, because, as I recall, it's part of what your future boss, John Saladino, really loved about you.

[Lenny Kravitz]

That's one of the reasons I was hired back in. When I graduated, I graduated in 83, and I started working with an architect that my dean. Because I was going to continue with a PhD.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

You were just like, education, more education.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I wanted to be in school forever. So then I wanted to do this PhD. And then. So I was meeting with Dean Polcheck, and Pal gets a call, and he's, oh, my friend, so. And so n. A graduate student. Do you have time this summer to stay? And I was going to go back to Puerto Rico. I said, well, okay, I'll stay. So I stayed. And then while I was working on with this architect in one project for Dina Merrill, John Saladino was doing the work, the interiors. And I had. I said, well, you know, I read about this company. Are they hiring? So I. Cause I didn't want to stay with the other architect. So I went to the library that night, all night, and I read all of his publications, every single project. And then I went the next morning and I handed my resume, and he said, I would like to work here. He said, well, how do you know that? We have. We needed somebody. He said, well, I just learned that your designer that was working on a project, she had an accident like a true New Yorker. You know, you have an accident. The apartment becomes available.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Exactly. That's the real real estate section. Oh, right. That's a yes.

[Lenny Kravitz]

So, anyway, I went in, so. So they got me an interview with John. I started talking to John in Italian, and. And then I had just come from Italy, and we started comparing notes about Palladio, and. And then they hired me on, like, right away. So can you start tomorrow? I said, wait, where? I have things to do. So maybe. I think I went in August. So I started in October.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

You had to give notice at your other job, and you had to get.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Notice with this other guy. And I was the only one in that other job. It was a. An older architect that needed help, so I was doing everything in there. Foreign.

[Dennis Scully]

We're taking a quick break to remind you that you can discover Hickory Chair at a trade showroom near you or explore its website to find inspiring collections, fabrics, finishes, and a wide range of customization options for crafting bespoke upholstery and wood pieces for your home. If you're attending High Point Market this spring, stop by their stunning showroom at 200 North Hamilton. Experience Ray Booth's new collection. Unwind in the design center and enjoy a cup of espresso, a cocktail, a free lunch, and Hickory Chair's signature hospitality. For more inspiration, visit Hickorychair.com or follow along on Instagram Hickorychair. And now back to the show.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, and for those that might not remember or aren't overly familiar with John Celadino, the great John Celadino, tell us a little bit about what was so remarkable and so much Italian influence in his work. And he was so inspired, like you.

[Lenny Kravitz]

To him, Italy is the birth of civilization. Even though IM Pei told him, no, it's China.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

IM Pei tried to straighten him out on it, but he wouldn't hear, it's China.

[Lenny Kravitz]

So, John. No, no, it's Italy. It's the elegance. It's the food. It's everything. So he designed interiors in a different way than we do. We create some sort of a concept, a storyboard and everything. He had it in his head. You walk into the place, and he would see it and then try to communicate. And I was really good at learning what he wanted to say, because I would quote from different projects and say, oh, this is just like, so and so architect that did this in Modena. Oh, yeah, that's right. So he got this sense of being comfortable with designing with me. So I was one of his designers, and then I became the head designer. So my job was to translate his concept to the rest of the office. And if there was any change that had to happen, I would make it without consulting him. I would tell him afterwards, because if there were things that were. Because I knew the concept, what he wanted to do so well, that I would tell him, you know, you were not here, you were traveling. The decision had to be made. And I made the decision. And 99% of the time, he was, oh, yeah, good decision. So I think one of the important things of a design, of being. Becoming a designer, is that I was eager to take the blame. And to take the blame is one of the most important things designers need to learn. Somebody has to make a decision.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, so tell me, tell me more about that. Tell me what you mean.

[Lenny Kravitz]

So somebody has to make a decision. The clients come to you to make decisions. A lot of these very powerful people are making decisions all the time, but they cannot decide between two shades of green. So you're the one that has to decide. And like it or not, your decision can cost millions of dollars. But it's your decision. You're the one that is paid to make a decision. If it's going to be a mistake, try to make a little mistake. Not too big of a mistake. Or what I used to call opportunities for improvement. I don't think in our office, I don't see things as mistakes. It's an opportunity.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

And like you would later have. He had a lot of very well known clients. I remember Norman Lear was a client and. Right.

[Lenny Kravitz]

And he was an amazing client. Norman Lear. He took me one time. I was making fun of the architect because the architect that was working on the project was doing some stupid thing. And I was young and I was like. And then he pulled me aside, but nobody saw me. And I said, don't ever make fun of people. Always treat people with the respect they deserve. Always. Do not do that again. Norma. Learn.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Wow. Straightened you out. An important lesson.

[Lenny Kravitz]

A very important lesson.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Sounds like it stuck with you. I'm wondering what stuck with you from your time working with John Celadino. So John Celadino, master, genius. All these words. Also somewhat notorious for being pretty challenging to work for, if I recall.

[Lenny Kravitz]

You know, he had a lot of fights with people. He was very, very strict. But with me, we got along extremely well. I only had one disagreement in a project. Early on, it was something that he yelled at me because he thought it was my fault and it was something that somebody else did. So I just went to his office. See, I like to do these things in private. I don't like to yell back, like, in front of everybody. So I went to his office, just like Norman did. Later is in. John, you know that this was not my fault, and I really don't appreciate you yelling at me. Please don't do that again, because the next time I'm just going to walk out. And he never did it again. Never. Always asking for my opinion. Always. And, you know, he. He dealt with. With design. As a painter, he was really in every project. He's creating a painting. He was this. And that's how I learned to see interiors, like, design for the camera. That's where a lot of our projects got published so quickly because, oh, let's put a little bit of yellow here. Like, otherwise people will say, oh, let's put a pillow there. No, no, he's not talking about what it is. He's talking about the color. Like, put brown here, put red here. So he's over. It's all about the color. And in our. In what we design, color is the first thing that we select. Just like. Like he taught me, color is the first thing. Furniture is the last.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Did he share with you how the business was doing? Did you get a sense that he was. That he was running a business well, that it was a highly profitable place, or did he not really share that side of it with you?

[Lenny Kravitz]

I was away from all of that. I was only design. I was only in charge of designing and producing the project. I never knew the office made money or didn't make money.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, that's what I wondered. Because, I mean, that's what I had heard that he. I mean, and I don't know what the fee structure was or all of that, but it sounded like he didn't really share all that with you.

[Lenny Kravitz]

No, not with the designers. He had people in the office that dealt with those things. The money people and the managers and, you know, things. I mean. Plus also, I was more involved in the architectural department.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Right.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I ended up, you know, doing interiors. But since I was an architect, I started doing just the architecture. So when. When you learn the money part is when you start buying antiques and rugs and, you know, things that have markups, which I never understood what that meant.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Luckily, you. You. You learned that quickly.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Well, I mean, I don't do that in my projects.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

You don't. You don't mark things up, you mean?

[Lenny Kravitz]

No, I never mark anything up. I always do hourly. I'm supplying an expertise, and you pay for the expertise. The object is up to you. Like, you can buy a chair from West Elm or an antique from it's 18th century piece. That is a million dollars. Put it next to it. If it goes well, it goes well. And it doesn't limit me of selecting something. Like, if I put a markup, I say I'm gonna make so much money if I sell this thing, so that it locks me into selling something that I might not like. So that's a mistake.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

So you think that's a mistake that you.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I think in hindsight, after all these years not doing markup, I find that it's a mistake.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Okay, so you wish you had started.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I wish I had. I just. No structure in that anymore.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Yeah.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Because the thing is that as a designer, you make things work in your house. Like, you could buy an expensive piece, but it doesn't fit or it doesn't go, or it doesn't work or. But the designer helps you get that. So I think they should be paid for that. And sometimes the hourly is not enough compared to the value of the piece that you are actually incorporating.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, you were just talking about the.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Fact that at Celadino, you were primarily focused on the architecture side. The design part of your career would come a little bit later. Tell me, first of all, I can't remember, was it eight, nine years that you worked for Celadino before going out on your own? Okay. When did you determine that it was time to go out on your own? What did you want to have happen? What was going on for you when it was time to leave?

[Lenny Kravitz]

It was 1990. It was 1990. I was doing a project in Santa Barbara for him, and my boyfriend at the time had gone through very long illness, so I took like four months leave of absence. So this client in California called me and said, you know, I want to do this house with John, but I want you to be the one in charge of the project. Can you come back for it? So I came back to the office for this project, and then when I finished the project, I realized, you know, I can do this myself. This is what I. I just did, so. And I was getting too good at designing John Saladino. In other words, like, I would design something that not even John would realize that he didn't do it.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

You just got so good at creating his look and his work.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yeah, I mean, it's. After a while, you create a look perfectly. So. So I said, let me. I need. I want to investigate more in design. I want to get the design to be a little bit lighter, not so formal. You know, get younger clients that want to, you know, with kids and things like that. So it's a little bit. Was just a little bit thing of about experimenting. So I said to him, you know, I would like to go give you, like, three months notice. I think I gave him.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Okay. Yeah.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Because there were a lot of projects.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, you were the head designer.

[Lenny Kravitz]

You were involved project. And then we had a meeting with him. He said, you know, you're welcome to come anytime like that. I just didn't go out. I didn't go back. But. But I was. But I was always looked at as the head designer of Saladino at the time. Let's see what he's doing. So I started publishing things because people knew I was leaving. So I was getting calls like, show me your next project. Like, I mean, my first project that I published was. I got the confirmation that they wanted the project. It was El Decor. I call El Decor. First day. I had photographed my house in the Hamptons with Peter Margonelli at the time. Gorgeous photos, great photographer. So Peter was a good friend, and he said, you need to start photographing things. So he photographed this. And so I went on my own. First day, I called. I called Elizabeth Byron and El De Corn and said, elizabeth, I have, you know that I left Saladino. Yes, yes, yes. Are you doing anything? I said, yeah, I just finished my house. You want to see it? She said, yeah, send me something right away, you know, So I send them to her. And she called me, like, at the end of the day, hold the project I wanted. Do not show it to anybody else. So he made the COVID of the magazine. And then a lot of people came in. Met Home became really like my. My magazine of.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Oh, right. Met Home was big. Yeah. And House Beautiful loved you. You were always right. Designer of the year and all this.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yeah, it was. It just went after the other. Like, there were many, many. It's a very different life now for publicity, for marketing. I don't quite understand it. I was so involved with, you know, sending pictures and taking pictures and the whole finishing a project involved getting the pictures ready for the magazine that you wanted to be in.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, and you. And you had. I mean, you were very lucky in that you knew the magazines wanted.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I do all the. I knew them. And I also was in charge of all the photo shoots. As a Latino, he always sent me to style the shoots with the. Whoever the editor was there. So I met. I worked with many fabulous photographers and editors. So they knew me as a little kid that works for John. Right. So. Yeah.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

And then you grew up What I'm so curious about, because in an interview, as I was sort of reading through some of the things you've said in the past, you talked at one point about with your own firm how challenging it was to get the architects in your office to think like interior designers.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yes, I studied architecture for six years. And in architecture, I know for a fact that the architect doesn't put most architects, unless you're extremely talented, don't put yourself in the room. So to think like an interior designer, you have to be in the room. Architecture. And nothing against it, because that's what I studied. You're creating a sculpture, and you're seeing the sculpture from the outside. Then you see it from the inside out, but you're not in it. You're not having a martini and having to sit down and put it on the coffee table. So make sure that the coffee table is at the right distance so that the martini doesn't spill. You're not sitting in the living room and looking to the left, and all of a sudden you see the toilet in the bathroom because the door is open. So those are the things that I tell my staff, and I think they have learned to look at things like that.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

How did you learn that?

[Dennis Scully]

How did you learn?

[Lenny Kravitz]

I learned that with John.

[Dennis Scully]

You did?

[Lenny Kravitz]

That's the way he thought. He kept saying that. Put yourself in the room. Are you in the room? What do you see? So I think that's the way that we design here in ours as well.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

We talked about 30 Crosby starting this conversation, and that was a project that opened so many doors for you. You briefly touched on the fact that Wendy Goodman, I think, had told you, oh, you should do hotels. And then, sure enough, none other than Ian Schrager reaches out. Right.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yeah. I could not believe that I was talking to Ian Schrager. About doing a hotel.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Yeah, about doing a hotel, which was incredible. And then, of course, I mean, the whole Morgan Group and the Mondrian bursts onto the scene. And those were. Those were hotels that had such a huge impact on the design scene at the time. People were waiting to see what you were going to do with those hotels and tell me about the work that you did and how you thought about that.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I was called in to meet Ed Sheets, who was the CEO of Morgan's, to try to brand the Mondrian hotel. In other words, create a look for hotels that will resemble the Montgomery Hotel. There was nobody that was like a brand manager. Like, now you got, you know, w. Had a heavy duty brand management. They give you, like, 3 inch thick booklet that you can read. And so at the time there was nothing like that. So what I started, what I did is I went and I studied what Philippe has done in the hotel and what are the main elements of the hotel. And like for instance, when we did the first hotel in Arizona, I created a concept as the brand from L A moving to Arizona. And the red carpet actually started on the, on the street. We painted the street in a, in a stencil of flowers as, as, as you would have if you're going through the red carpet just to get to the place. And of course the draperies, there's scale, variation of scale. When we did New York, we created this. I switched the entrance of the hotel from, from Lafayette to Crosby so I can have a long distance to get to the hotel and create a red carpet, which we did. I don't know if you've been there, but it has a big archway. Yeah, that gets you there. So all of those elements that became, that came from Philip's project in la. I tried to put one, one in each. And then what. Whenever I design one that I create elements on my own that I would carry to the next one. So like for instance, Bahamar SLS was the last one that we designed. Has elements from everything from la, from New York, from Arizona. So my idea was to build a story of this brand from the beginning until present and then continue. I don't know if they do that anymore because I haven't done one.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

It was so interesting because. And we should explain for listeners because we've mentioned Philippe, obviously we're talking about Philippe Stark who had redesigned the hotel in 1996 or something, if I recall. And Andre Pootman had been involved in the original.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Right. For Morgans.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Yeah, yeah. And so there were these big figures. Then you came after. And I know that you wanted to. To find your own voice and your own vision for it, but building on the shoulders of what they had done.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yeah, I thought it was more important to build on what they have done than to just put all new because people would recognize it. It's like designers built on their collections, built onto the collection before. Like Margiela collection from this year built on the one last year. Our money built on the things before. So there's always a transition from one collection to the other. So I thought I saw these hotels as collections.

[Dennis Scully]

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[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Often when I talk to designers who get into the hotel part of the business, they talk to me about needing to quickly hire a whole array of people to kind of keep up with all the work. Yes. And that sometimes that's not an easy transition to make is to suddenly grow your firm. Did that, did that happen for you? Did you have to suddenly hire a lot of people?

[Lenny Kravitz]

I started with W hotel. That was the first one that we did in Puerto Rico. I started in Puerto Rico and I had a. I hired people for that one. Unfortunately, the project didn't happen, so I had to let go a lot of people. So after that I realized I'm not doing that anymore. If we cannot design the hotel with three, four or five people, we're not doing it. So what we did is we joint venture with architectural firms that were big and they could produce the drawings and the heavy work and all the heavy purchasing and things like that. So we became more kind of like the idea firm, the concept and installation and styling, which to me is the most important thing for the designer because production can be done by AI nowadays, as I learned yesterday with my crewmate from college that came to show me this AI program, I said, look, look, I can give them a couple of things here and look in three seconds. He gave me 12 designs and I said, but they're not yours.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, I was wondering about your AI meeting and what you learned from that.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I hated it.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

You hate it. When you, when you saw what it could do or what I saw, what.

[Lenny Kravitz]

It could do is really taking your mind away from designing. You are subjugated to a computer making a decision for you. And I said to my. My roommate from guy said, what do you sketch? Oh, I haven't sketched anything in 30 years. Really? Like, how do you do this? Oh, I just tell the computer this, this, this and that and I'll put it in Revit and 3D it. And then they give me 12 designs. Like, well, too bad. I said, no, no, no, it's good.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, it sounds like he's really embraced the technology and the AI technology is happening very quickly.

[Lenny Kravitz]

It is. It's here to Stay. I don't think it's going to go anywhere. I think we gonna go away.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, I mean. And so when you say that, what do you. What do you really mean?

[Lenny Kravitz]

I think imagination might go away because if you don't have to imagine things, your brain is not gonna use anything like, how many phone numbers do you actually know? I know my phone number, and I don't know anybody else's because they're in the phone.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Right?

[Lenny Kravitz]

So that. That part of the brain that you used to remember addresses and the phone numbers of all your friends and everything, you don't have that, so you lost that. So if you don't have to come up with a design concept for a project anymore and the computer does it for you, what are you doing? You're working for the computer.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

I'm curious. There's a couple of things that I want to. That I want to talk about with you, and one of them you were just. You were just alluding to. You had scaled up your firm at one point, and then the hotel project didn't happen, and you had to let some people go. And it sounds as though you made a conscious decision to not get very big. And in your last book, which I believe was about 10 years ago, you wrote about reaching this point in your career where you no longer had to take projects on for the money. Right. You sort of suggested you didn't need the money as much, but also that you really wanted to take on projects that were enjoyable for you and that often you found the smaller projects were more challenging and more interesting and engaging to you. I mean, first of all, is that true?

[Dennis Scully]

And.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

And then. And then. Tell me, tell me, tell me about that, because that's a. That's a. It's a counterintuitive philosophy.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I just find that at this point, I mean, not that I'm dead, but you should really do things that you enjoy doing. So projects that we take, I. Sometimes I take projects that are very small because they're exciting, right? Very excited. I remember years ago, this girl called me in the middle of a snowstorm, and she said, oh, I have this studio apartment in the West End. I don't know. I love your work. I don't think I can afford you, but you gave me some points. I said, well, I have nothing to do. Can I come over? So I went there. So I went and with Magali, with my assistant at the time, we sketched things at the apartment, gave her the color for the apartment, you know, how to make the draperies, the layout, and didn't charge anything. It was exciting because later on, like, three months later, she called me up and I went to see, and she had done. It was like one of my projects. So that was very, very exciting. I mean, there's things. Sometimes the projects that are more complicated becomes too technical. So the projects that are simpler are a little bit more rewarding. But that doesn't mean that the big ones are not rewarding. It's just. It's a different way. The other thing I like is, like, for instance, we did a lot of work with Patricia Field, the custom designer. We became really good friends. And Pat said, well, I want to hire you to do me this apartment on at the Bowery. And I said, no, you're a terrible client. I don't. I don't want to work for you, but I can help you.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

And what made her a terrible client?

[Lenny Kravitz]

Because she changes her mind. So I say, yeah, you adore you.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

I love you, but I can't work.

[Lenny Kravitz]

This is what I do. I'm going to meet you. You pay for brunch every Saturday. And. And until. Until we finish that. I'm going to meet with you. We're going to sketch.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Okay.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Parts of the apartment, and then during the week, you talk to the contractor and you get it done. And it was spectacular. It became her store on the Bauer.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Okay, so you found a way to work with her.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I enjoyed the company. I didn't want to get paid. And then her aesthetics was a fashion aesthetics as opposed to architecture aesthetics. So I learned with her to mix colors and textures and patterns that I would have never done it in my own. So, you know, every client teaches you something.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, what I'm curious about, Benjamin, is.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Because I'm fascinated by how your thinking about all of this has evolved. And you seem to be in such a good place with both the scale of your firm. I think you have about five people right now. Right. If I recall. And it sounds as if it's just the right size for you. You get to take on the projects that you want to do. When you first left John Celadino, cast.

[Dennis Scully]

Your mind back to that time.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Did you have a clear vision of what you wanted your own firm to be like? Did you consciously say to yourself, okay, I want to be sort of like John's firm, only I don't want to do this or that or how. Did you think about it or did you think about it?

[Lenny Kravitz]

I don't think I thought about it at all. I really didn't have a big plan. Most of the office Layout I took from John because I did that with him. But I never had a vision of what it was going to be. Even when we started doing hotels, I didn't think that that was what I was gonna do. Like this is just, you know, this period we're doing these hotels and then we're gonna be doing stores now and then we're gonna be doing. But it's not that I plan to do it, it's just that, just they, they come and then one thing brings another.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, and, and, and so looking back, I mean you were talking earlier about so your fee structure for example, it you wish you had charged a markup, right? And so like did you.

[Lenny Kravitz]

I don't know how John charged markups. I had no idea how they did it. I just found that hourly billing was easier to do. You know, you build for what you do. And then I just ended up doing it like that forever.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, so often people will, will talk about how they hire this key person, this right hand person and that makes such difference for them or somebody to really help manage the business side. Was that ever a key hire for you or were you conscious of that?

[Lenny Kravitz]

I had a few like that, but they really didn't work out so well. I like to get involved with many things. Fashion is one of the things I love the most. And the people that were handling that at the time, they just didn't get in tune with what I, things that I wanted to do. Plus, you know, sometimes they mismanage money and stuff like that, which I thank God I don't have that now. But yet they just didn't get, I mean the closest that I had to get in an agent, the agent passed away like two years later. So back in like 2009 that I was starting to do furniture for the Metropolitan Home Collection, I had an agent and you know, I got Philips Collection Design. So I got a lot of, a lot of agents to like get commissions.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

To get do licensing and product.

[Lenny Kravitz]

So I started the licensing and licensing didn't go anywhere. It's a lot, it's very difficult to do licensing with a firm or your name is the one that designs. Like I didn't have too big of a staff to come up with designs. Now I have, you know, either my own, my small firm, I force them to design like this you're designing, which is great. But at the time I didn't. The two times that I had a manager, it was more about human resource manager. There was nothing about managing the projects. Now I'm more conscious about what Projects that we need to work on and how many hours, because I'm doing the billing. I would love to do just concepts, like strong concepts that, that are sellable, marketing wise. And you could use, you could do commercials, you could do writers, you can do books about the concept of the project.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Because to me that's, that's the most creative part of the project.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, I was so curious when you shared with me recently that you create a whole story for your projects that you rarely share with the client.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yes, yes. We design a story that for residential or for hotels or for stores in hotels, we disclose that the story because it helps in the marketing of the hotel. Like for instance, the Morgan's in soho, the Mondrian in soho. The story was the Beauty and the Beast from the movie La Belle Abed Cocteau. So all the design elements were coming from the story. So as doing a hotel. When the wife of the CEO said, oh, that's the wrong color, I said, I'm sorry, but this is the color of the brand. This is in the story. Oh, I want to use orange. Orange is not in the story. So that's a way to shut that down. You can justify. In residential, it's different because residential we make the story and we really can't tell too many times what it is because you're designing a subjective interior and it's what they want. Really. I use. You are designing for their comfort. But behind that comfort there's a look and there's an idea. There's visuals that we create. Let's say if you do a house on the beach and I use the ocean and the ocean color and the sand, which we did for our apartment, as part of the concept of it. So I can tell the client that I want to do the rock to match the sand color that is right on the view. Because they're going to say, well, I don't care about that. Well, I do care, so I can't say it, but I do it so that there's a continuation of the visuals and all that. So at the end, the project is very coherent because we took into consideration things that are around the project. So you have to translate it so that it's easily understandable. But if you say too much, then it could be misunderstood and anybody can misunderstand. It could be an artist that you're working on. I mean, I've worked, I've done interiors for architects and you would think that an architect would understand concept, but not necessarily so, you know, we just keep it for, for Our own because we have so many materials and so many choices, and so we have so much available that we have to limit ourselves. Now, if the client doesn't give us a budget, which a lot of times a budget is what restricts the project, then we have to come up with something to restrict the project. Otherwise you will never end and may as well be a concept, a beautiful story.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, so I'm wondering, in wrapping up, I'm wondering, Benjamin, how you are thinking about what's next for you. You've gotten to a point where you're taking on projects that challenge you. It sounds like you're really working with either people you know or people who are referred to you by friends that you trust. And you're not taking any big chances with difficult clients.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

I mean, that's important to you. So how are you, how are you thinking about things? Do you, do you want the firm to carry on with or without you in the future? Do you want your team to take over or how are you thinking about it?

[Lenny Kravitz]

The difficult thing is that my name is the firm. And if I had called the firm Good Design, that would have been easier. Then somebody could have bought it.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Right.

[Lenny Kravitz]

So now it's all about what we do. And as we continue, we're getting projects, we just continue working on it. So I don't really know what, what will happen. I have to eventually have to have a talking with my staff. But I think right now everybody likes what they're doing because it's very relaxed because everybody knows all the clients very well.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, and I, and I don't want to make a lot of people jealous, but, but we should talk about, I mean, your firm, a lot of the team gets to work from home a lot of the week.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Yes, actually. I mean, we created a very laid back attitude. So after the pandemic, we had a big. Well, we had a huge office in soho, then we moved to the financial district and then Covid happened and I was paying God knows how much for a monthly office. Fully made, Custom made. Yeah, like eight months. And not using it. Right, not using it. So everybody was working from a laptop. So we went and dismantled the office and started working from home. And then come like August and we closed the office altogether. And now we, we come to the studio, which I'm here today to deal with color materials. And a few of the employees that left during the pandemic continue working with us from remotely. And you know, remember that when I, when I do a project in another country, I always have somebody working with me somewhere else. We always like to work somewhere else so somebody that is at the site can check colors and textures and things for me, some of that is in tune with our design. So it's easy to work now with, you know, zoom and Instagram and all of that.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

But it sounds like you don't want to stop working.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Oh, I don't think so. No, I don't think so. I mean, pay worked until he was 100.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Yeah. So that's what you want. Work to your 100?

[Lenny Kravitz]

Well, maybe a little bit less than that. Yeah.

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

Well, I'm, I'm, I'm thrilled to get to spend time with you. You're so. You're so kind to make the time. It's been such a pleasure.

[Lenny Kravitz]

Thank you. Nice talking to you.

[Dennis Scully]

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us [e-mail] where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings, and join our BoH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a line at [e-mail].

[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

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[Dennis Scully]

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[Benjamin Noriega Ortiz]

It helps others to discover the show.

[Dennis Scully]

This show was produced by Fred Nicholas and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.