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Business of Home Podcast
How Jeffrey Alan Marks found the perfect mix of British formality and California beach vibes
00:52:50
The celebrated designer shares the story of his career
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- [00:04]
Dennis Scully
This is Business of Home. I'm your host Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry.
- [00:15]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
My guest this week is interior designer Jeffrey Alan Marks.
- [00:20]
Dennis Scully
A California native, Jeffrey studied extensively in England as a young designer and brought back a healthy dose of British style when he returned to Los Angeles to launch his career. He became a star as a cast member of Bravo's Million Dollar Decorators, but ever since has focused on the work.
- [00:39]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Creating lines for Kravet Palacek and A.
- [00:42]
Dennis Scully
Rudin and designing homes all over the world. I spoke with Jeffrey about finding a blend of English formality and LA beach culture, why his own homes always got.
- [00:55]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
More attention than big budget projects for.
- [00:58]
Dennis Scully
Clients, and why he doesn't like to jump headfirst into new projects too quickly. This podcast is sponsored by Ernesta. Lay the foundation to a beautiful home with Ernesta's high quality custom size rugs featuring an array of refined colors and patterns. Ernesta's custom size rugs are made to fit every space and arrive in only two to four weeks. And with Ernesta's exclusive trade member benefits, you can get dedicated Support, free unlimited 12x12 samples and exclusive discounts to help achieve your clients design goals. To learn more about Ernesto's trade program, visit ernesta.com boh this podcast is also sponsored by Crypton Designers looking for a premier domestic upholstery vendor that offers concierge service, complementary Crypton fabric samples and dedicated project assistants are invited to explore Rowe Furniture's exceptional trade program. Customize your perfect piece with Crypton fabrics in an array of stunning colors and styles, seamlessly blending beauty, durability and comfort. With Rowe's trade program, you can anticipate a truly stress free experience. Each piece of furniture is meticulously hand inspected and photos of your customized orders are sent before shipping, ensuring you stay informed without any hassle. And pricing includes freight to your receiver, simplifying the ordering process. For more information about the program, visit row furniture.com and now on with the show.
- [02:56]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
So take me back Jeffrey. Take me back to working with Michael Bruno and what that was like.
- [03:01]
Michael Bruno
You know it's funny, we grew up together in La Jolla and he was my first. He bought the most beautiful house I'd ever seen for someone that was probably mid-20s at the time in La Jolla and didn't know quite what to do with it. So we tackled it together. He didn't hire me to do the whole thing, but it was fun to start a couple of rooms and really make them sing. It was really a fun project.
- [03:33]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Well, so it sounds like it was sort of a friend project then.
- [03:36]
Dennis Scully
Yes, for his friends.
- [03:37]
Michael Bruno
It was a friend's project. Well, it was my first, actually. I was charging him. It was like, oh, I didn't think that I was doing this wonderful career. And I actually was making money from it. So, yeah, I had. It was my first computer. That's how many years ago it was. And I said to my mom, who bought it for me, mom, are you sure I need this? And so she would come in twice a week and help me bill. So that was the first bill that my mom generated to Michael Bruno.
- [04:09]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Well, thank goodness she was there to give you that guidance.
- [04:11]
Michael Bruno
Absolutely, absolutely. My second job from there was. I remember it was a house in Rancho Santa Fe that she had me picked up at my office and brought me to this beautiful compound in Rancho Santa Fe. So I was very lucky with my first projects. They happened to own Toyota, so that tells you what kind of client they were. And she flew me off to Telluride, and she was doing this sort of beautiful 20,000 square foot hunting lodge as a surprise gift for her husband for his birthday. And imagine hiding that for, you know, the construction phase, which was at least four years. Yeah, yeah. And she was a fan of my work. And I didn't know that anyone could be a fan of my work because there was no work.
- [05:05]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
How did you know your work?
- [05:06]
Michael Bruno
I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. So that was fun.
- [05:10]
Dennis Scully
So take me back.
- [05:11]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
You went off to London for design school or something. I mean, help me better understand.
- [05:17]
Michael Bruno
So I was in design school in Arizona and San Diego. I went to design schools, but I. I felt like instinctively I didn't. I wasn't quite getting the true knack of decoration. And back then it was a very different thing because it was very architecturally driven, which is what my education was in. But I didn't have that true art of decorating. So I decided to move myself off to England at the time, and London in particular. And this is after almost six years of college. So my parents were like, no, we're good, we're done, we're out. We may buy you a computer when you start your business, but no.
- [06:04]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Okay, well, so six years. So what had you been doing the six years in college?
- [06:09]
Michael Bruno
I was in architecture school at Arizona State. And then I went to a small design school, Design Institute of San Diego, which was a small interiors school. That's all they did. It was very small. So then I decided I was sitting there at a cafe in London in Sloan Square, wondering how I was going to tackle this design school that was just around the corner and how I was going to basically live in London and afford to live in London at the time. And someone sat down next to me and said, hey, have you ever thought about modeling? And I'm like, well, wow. I was on a college calendar, you know, that's it. And so he gave me a card and said, why don't you show up tomorrow at 10 o'clock and we will take some pictures and we will introduce you to the crew that ran the agency. There were about four or five bookers that work there. So I showed up. And then the very next day they said, oh, you're perfect. We don't have any pictures of you, but we have a job for you. And it's in Nottingham. And I'm like, where is Nottingham? You know, I just. I was just in the forest.
- [07:26]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
From all we know, right?
- [07:27]
Michael Bruno
All new to London, let alone Nottingham. So somehow found my way to Nottingham the next day, showed up at 9:00, huge tent. It was very glamorous. There was a lot going on. And, you know, I was very new to fashion or anything else, so I didn't know what that meant. And then this guy started coming in and they put a suit on me and it was baggy and horrible. And he came in and he started tailoring it and pinning it. And I said, I'm sorry, who are you? I'm so sorry, I haven't met you. They haven't told me what I'm doing. He said, oh, I'm so sorry. I am Paul Smith.
- [08:10]
Dennis Scully
Wow.
- [08:11]
Michael Bruno
And you're doing my fall collection. And I'm so sorry you didn't know what you were doing or who I am. And I'm like, okay, Paul Smith, I've never.
- [08:22]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
And did you know who that was? Did you know who Paul Smith?
- [08:24]
Michael Bruno
No, I had no clue. I mean, really, it's. When Paul Smith was quite young, he.
- [08:29]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Wasn'T Sir Paul Smith at this time.
- [08:31]
Michael Bruno
He was not Sir Paul Smith. And he had a little beautiful store in Covent Garden. And I think he just had one store at the. At the time. So we did his fall collection and it was quite fun. And from there I did, you know, I. I did at the time there was this fashion brand in England called Next, and I modeled for them a bit and I modeled for Marks and Spencer, which is a big department store there. And, you know, started to generate money in just the amount of three Weeks I started doing all this and could absolutely afford my tuition, absolutely afford my rent. And my parents called, they said, well, do you need a one way ticket home? And I'm like, you know what, I'm good, I'm good. Yeah.
- [09:22]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
I found a whole new career. I'm living large in London.
- [09:27]
Michael Bruno
So that really helped me ground my eye on the world to know that there was more to life than American design.
- [09:39]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
So suddenly you were becoming a man of the world. And do I remember that at some point you get connected with John Stephanides?
- [09:47]
Michael Bruno
You know, I, I worked, I was a stock boy at Colfax and Fowler and I put samples away.
- [09:54]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Yeah.
- [09:54]
Michael Bruno
And I sort of learned and watched and loved their style at the time. And then I, you know, that's when all the little design stores were on the Fulham Road and they were quite small, little, just hole in the wall, you know, probably a thousand square feet at most. All these designs were simple. Stefanides was across the street again, worked for Stefanitas after Colfax.
- [10:18]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Okay.
- [10:19]
Michael Bruno
You know, then I worked for a designer who was called Christine Kennedy, who really, we worked more together and that was after the fact and you know, did some apartments, we did an apartment in Paris, a couple of things in London and also sort of move that business because after a while I'm like, hey, wait a minute, it's drizzling all the time here.
- [10:46]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
I'm cold about this weather.
- [10:49]
Michael Bruno
I loved, loved living in London, but I needed to then after, and this is three, four years later, decide to move my way back to La Jolla, which felt safe and like I could manage a little design firm there. So I moved my way back to La Jolla and that's when my mom bought me a computer.
- [11:17]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
A couple of people who have worked with Stephanidis in the past, in fact some of the current members of Colfax, if I recall, spent some time working for Mr. Stefanides and described him as a little bit intimidating, but. Right. Huge, huge talent.
- [11:35]
Michael Bruno
And. Yeah, and also I think that's when I really learned about the mix because, you know, he, for some reason, whether it be a London flat or a country house, brings something into a house that's a little beachy, a little more casual, a little more just every day. And I think, you know, whether it be his, his beautiful, you know, orange trees, tangerine trees that are inside or whatever it might be, that changed the whole perspective of the room and the house in general, I think that's what I started to learn. And I think, you know, there's people back at home. Like, Michael Taylor did that for California. You know, there's people that I really looked up to, Saladino being a big one that was sort of working so hard when I was starting out, you know, I got to meet him, and that was a special treat. When I worked for an antiquarian, I forgot about the GEP Durenberger days, but GEB Durenberger was a famous antiquarian in California, specializing in English antiques, French. French antiques, a lot of European, a lot of just beautiful furniture that we don't really see around so much anymore because it's, you know, it's all gone for the most part. Hard to find.
- [12:59]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Yeah. Yeah. Well. So as you say, you finally got tired of the rain and the chill in the air and made your way back to La Jolla. And tell me about the early days. Mom gets you the computer. You're doing some things for Michael Bruno. And sounds like some other things quickly come along. The wife of the head of Toyota.
- [13:24]
Michael Bruno
At the time, those early years, I was sort of struggling. I thought, you know, it was at a very different time when you didn't necessarily bring things back to America. So America had their own vibe. And that's con. It. It confused me a little bit in the early years of, like, okay, how do I take this beach life that I have, and also my English training, which is more European and a little bit more formal, and mix it together. So I think my early years of design, I was sort of fumbling a bit at who I was. And, you know, I think it takes a young designer some time to figure out who they actually are and who they stand for and without just looking at what someone else is doing and taking that. And I think that's so important for a young designer today to figure out who they are.
- [14:25]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Well, I'm so glad you said that, because I've spoken to several designers recently who worked for big name designers and were certainly heavily influenced by their work. And the challenge often is, how do you go out on your own and find your own voice? And as you were just saying, coming to California after being drenched in the British design scene, it's hard to translate that whole look and feel. So it sounds like you really were finding your way.
- [15:00]
Michael Bruno
I was finding my ways. And I think some editors of magazines really helped because they saw things in me that I necessarily didn't see. And that was back in the day when we had some amazing interior design magazine editors that were helpful. I don't think they're so helpful today, you know, but they were more Present. They were out and about. And I think it was all about at the time, doing favors. Yes, I'll do that. You know, showcase room. I think I did a showcase room in La Jolla, which really set me off. And I borrowed furniture from everybody. There was a lot of work. A showcase house is so much work. And I had done the reception room. And it was quite a big deal for me because that was the first time that a paying client wasn't standing there watching me sort of giving their two cents. Because don't forget, I was. I was 30 at the time.
- [16:01]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Right.
- [16:01]
Michael Bruno
And it was a very formal room. It was very English. And it got some, you know, I. I think people were surprised that this sort of surfer boy came up with this room and, you know, this beautiful Georgian showcase house. But I do think doing favors like that early on is so important in a designer's career because people always remember it and they remember the showcase I did the following year and the following year. But magazine editors played a big part in that.
- [16:34]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Who were some of the magazine editors that were helpful to you in the early days?
- [16:38]
Michael Bruno
Do you remember, you know, Phyllis Van Doren, who ran San Diego Home and Garden. Margaret Russell was a big inspiration for me at EL Decor. You know, AD Paige Rince was still there, and it was. She was very, very nice woman. It was sort of before the land of publicists. I just sort of organically kept in contact with them. So they would call me when something came up and it could be very small. Hey, can I have a quote about paint? What paint are you using in La Jolla with light there? And, you know, so it was just a very nice little community back then.
- [17:15]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Yeah. No, no, no. It certainly sounds as if it was. And I think California is often thought of as having such a nice design community. People seem like they all have known each other for years.
- [17:26]
Michael Bruno
You know, a lot of the folks that I know now I started out with, you know, we were all starting our little design firms together. And what's fun about California style is in particular is everyone is so original and different. It is interesting living now, the time that I've lived in Connecticut. It's a very. It could be a different country. It's very. They have their own individual style that I appreciate. It's fun to see.
- [18:03]
Dennis Scully
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- [19:07]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
You've been living in Greenwich, if I recall, for a while. Right. And packing up and leaving town shortly. But tell me about.
- [19:18]
Michael Bruno
Right as we speak. I'm packing up, Believe me.
- [19:20]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Exactly.
- [19:21]
Michael Bruno
Exactly.
- [19:22]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
The place is being packed as we speak.
- [19:24]
Michael Bruno
I know, but.
- [19:26]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Oh, and are you a little sad about it? I don't know.
- [19:30]
Michael Bruno
It is a very. It is just a very different world that. I loved that. I know it now. I know Connecticut. I know how it works. It's only been a year and a half that I've been in Connecticut, and, yes, I am so glad to be back to California. But, you know, what's gorgeous is, you know, we bought the most gorgeous Georgian house, and I had so much fun decorating it, and it was fun to get that vibe, and I never would have had that opportunity in California. And that's the COVID of my book. So of course I love it. I love my time here. But I will say, because I have a daughter that's starting kindergarten next year, we were sort of in a rush because we wanted her to go back to the original school, which we'd always.
- [20:13]
Dennis Scully
Planned on her going well and so.
- [20:16]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
And interesting that you mentioned. So the image is the COVID of your book.
- [20:21]
Michael Bruno
Yes.
- [20:21]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
And the house that you bought somewhat dictated the style that you would decorate the space in. Yes, absolutely.
- [20:33]
Michael Bruno
And I think people that know me come in and, you know, I bought a lot of new furniture and there's a lot of new colors. And the people that know my style came into the house and they said, you know, I feel like I'm in California, which was the biggest compliment, because I think people ask me all around the world, how do I get that vibe that you have? I think people consider it beachy. Which. Which, yes, my licensing products are. But my own style is not so much that.
- [21:09]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Do you feel that way? Do you feel that your style is not beachy or you feel it's not.
- [21:13]
Michael Bruno
Well, I don't California consider it. I think that I bring to the table a more casual vibe of, of quality, but yet this very laid back. And I think that's should just do with my personality. And how do I mix this English style with a, you know, a very layered, casual beach house that feels, it feels like I could move it anywhere in the world. But it definitely doesn't feel blue and white beach house by any. It doesn't feel gimmicky or anything about it. It just feels relaxed, which I think is important.
- [21:52]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
And you're not hot glue gunning shells to mirrors?
- [21:57]
Michael Bruno
No, no, I'm not, I'm not. But I think, I think in doing my licensed products, you know, like for instance Palacek and my, you know, five collections now at Kravit, you know, they've given me the opportunity. I try and mix everything of all my products together like it was going to be in one house. And I think my new collection with the rug company does that so well in that it works with the things that I've already designed.
- [22:29]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
And I want to talk about that more because I'm curious to hear how you think about it. But let's get back to the timeline because I'm so interested in hearing you talk about finding your way both stylistically it sounds like, and also figuring out how to have a design firm, which I mean, you tell me if all of your education that you had referenced earlier set you up to really be running a design firm.
- [22:57]
Michael Bruno
Oh my God. Not at all, not at all, not at all.
- [23:00]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Okay. Okay. Well, I didn't think so. So tell me, tell me, tell me how you did go about figuring that part out.
- [23:07]
Michael Bruno
You know, I think I found out very early on that I wanted to work for myself and make that mark in the world. And I think I learned early on from the people that I had worked with just in internships when I saw designers who had their name all across, you know, on the door and very established amazing firms, when I saw them getting in early before their employees and sweeping the pathway to the front door, cleaning the windows, I learned early on that you have to do everything. You can't just be the head of this firm. You have to wash your windows, you have to make sure the front door is clean. You have to make sure that the people that are working for you are happy. And I think there's just so much that goes into it that you really, it has to be a hands on job, you know, you just don't show up. I I find it very disrespectful the. The design firms that the head designer shows up at, you know, 10:30 and, you know, expect someone else to hang their coat. You know, I'm literally, you know, if it's 9:00, I'm getting my. Still to this day, my people that work for me coffee, and at 4:00, I'm pouring them wine.
- [24:40]
Dennis Scully
Nice.
- [24:41]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Okay. I like that.
- [24:44]
Dennis Scully
I like the services that you provide.
- [24:47]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
And it's gonna make a lot of people who are listening apply for a job. So you'll be inundated with that soon.
- [24:53]
Michael Bruno
Well, I need someone to Montecito now that I'm going back, so. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
- [24:57]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
So there is an opening and there's early morning coffee and afternoon wine. So definitely get your resumes in.
- [25:04]
Dennis Scully
Can you think of earlier you were.
- [25:06]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Talking about doing some showcase houses and people discovering your work that way? I'm curious, when you think back on what now you recognize as major turning points in your career, was there a particular project that really caught a lot of people's attention? And I'm wondering when you really felt like people were recognizing your work. And eventually we're going to talk about how the good people from Bravo get you on their radar as well.
- [25:44]
Michael Bruno
Well, I think it's when I was very lucky, as I said, to do big projects and I was working constantly, and I probably had five or six from the ground up, houses going on at once. And I think that really set me off. But I will say it was never until I did my own small, whether it be a little cottage in Rancho Santa Fe or my little place in Santa Monica that I lived. People wanted to see my own house, and they loved seeing how I did it on a budget. But also, you know, mix the high, low and, you know, you're definitely more creative. And that's what people really gravitated towards. Early years of my own work. More than the 12,000 square foot beach house on the cliff of Laguna.
- [26:45]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Yeah.
- [26:46]
Michael Bruno
So that was an interesting thing for me to learn because I'm like, well, why aren't you. Why aren't you wanting to put this in Architectural Digest or El Decor? Why are you wanting. Why are you wanting to put my little beach house in?
- [26:59]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
So your little beach house somehow read as more creative or more.
- [27:04]
Michael Bruno
Well, it was more original. It was more layered. It was. It definitely said more about me as a designer and less about trying to make money, because I never, ever went into this trying to make money. I mean, I could have gone back to modeling and Made money.
- [27:23]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Well, and why didn't you? I mean, did you think about that?
- [27:27]
Michael Bruno
Oh, I did. I mean, it's funny, when I started my first office, which was. And I opened my office before I had clients, so I still was modeling for sure, until I had to call my agent one day in Los Angeles and say, you know, I'm so sorry. I'm just so busy. I can't do that job. I can't make it up to a casting. I can't fly to, you know, the Canary Islands for a week and a half because I actually have this business to run now. So. Sorry. And I think it was then and there that I discovered, oh, wow, I'm a real designer now. Like, I can. I can do this on my own and make a living at it. And it's really what I want to do. It's why I want to wake up.
- [28:14]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
In the morning to that point, because you. You started hiring people and bringing people on. And I don't know how big your firm was in the beginning, but I'm assuming that you looked for people who had other skill sets beyond your own.
- [28:30]
Michael Bruno
Oh, of course. Of course I did. Well, that's easy to find. But I think, you know, really, I've never had an office more than five people. It's always been from three to five people. And it's just always been that. I think that it's gotten bigger at one point and it didn't work, and it's gotten smaller at one point, and I think it's just a happy medium. Always. In a small boutique design firm, if you want more of a larger, you know, I. I always walk into, for instance, my friend Stephen Gambrel's office in New York, and I'm like, stephen, what.
- [29:16]
Dennis Scully
Are these people doing?
- [29:18]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
What do all these people do?
- [29:20]
Michael Bruno
Like, I have no idea. So, I mean, yes, and he loves that. And, you know, a lot of people that started off before and after me have these. Have these very large firms, but it would never work for me.
- [29:37]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Well, it's interesting to hear you say that. A recent guest, David Phoenix, had said that Billy Baldwin, the great decorator, had said a design firm should never be more than five people. In fact, five people is the ideal.
- [29:49]
Michael Bruno
I didn't know that. Yes.
- [29:52]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
So that is the sweet spot, it turns out. So you're in excellent company there.
- [29:58]
Michael Bruno
That's pretty good company. One of my favorites. Yeah.
- [30:01]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Well, I mean. And understandably so. Speaking of which, speaking of the great Billy Baldwin, he called himself a decorator, and there's this back and forth Often today about am I an interior designer, am I a decorator, where do I fall and all of that. How do you think of yourself?
- [30:20]
Michael Bruno
You know what's so funny is if I'm doing the architecture on a house, I call myself a designer. If I'm doing and I don't want to do the architecture on the house and my clients are like, well, what about the door heights? And I'm like, oh, I'm just a decorator. I don't know.
- [30:36]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
I see.
- [30:37]
Michael Bruno
So, so there's ways to use it to your benefit. I really consider myself the older I get and the more I only do jobs. What I want to do is I'm a decorator. I really want to decorate. I don't want to do architecture. I don't care about the panels in a room. I really, I do think architects are better at that and that's what they should really do. Having said that, I don't sometimes have that opportunity. If someone's building a house, sometimes the, the architect goes missing for a couple of months, three months, four months. So I have to step in and do it. But it's not one of my favorite things to do. So I would consider myself a decorator. A million dollar decorator.
- [31:28]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
A million dollar decorator. Well, so, so a great segue there. Let's, let's talk about million dollar decorator and this, this huge, you tell me opportunity, life changing moment that comes your way.
- [31:43]
Michael Bruno
It was a very fun thing to do and I think it was a great learning experience. I say this to people. Everyone should do a reality show in their life because you learn and you see things about yourself that I didn't know, you know, were there. And I think it really gave me this voice that I never had before. You know, I grew up a very bad stutterer. So I was a little horrified to talk on tv. And don't forget, I was a model, but I didn't have to say anything.
- [32:12]
Dennis Scully
Well, so how did you learn to overcome that?
- [32:14]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
That's, that's so impressive that you drew that. What did you do?
- [32:18]
Michael Bruno
I overcame stuttering late teens. But you still always have that in the back of your mind that I'm a stutterer. Oh, God, don't. I can't speak. I can't be on TV because I'm going to start stuttering again. And you just have it little voice in the back of your mind. And I think that was my one moment where I had to get over that and I did, and I lost that sort of voice in the back of my head forever when I saw myself speaking on tv. I'm like, wait, I'm good. I'm fine. I'm not great.
- [32:53]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
You never know. You'd never know if you hadn't told me. I would never have known that you had an issue with that.
- [32:58]
Michael Bruno
Yeah, no, that was a big thing as a child is. I think that's probably why I went the creative route. It was an easy way without talking, to convey myself.
- [33:09]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Yeah, well, good for you for overcoming that and how great that seeing yourself on television made you realize, hey, look, I have overcome that. That's not an issue for me. And that voice, thank you very much. That unwelcome voice, right, that was holding you back, no doubt, right. From feeling fully confident about.
- [33:28]
Michael Bruno
I'm so sorry that I had to be like, you know, mid-40s for that to happen, but it happened. So I'm happy for you. Yeah, yeah.
- [33:34]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
No, no, no, absolutely. Well, I mean, it was such an intense moment, that show. And like you, I just went back and rewatched some of it because I knew I was gonna be talking to you and I was watching you when you showed up at the. I think it was the Hungry Cat and they hadn. And the restaurant like wasn't at all ready to go and it was opening, it was opening in a week or something. I mean, it was, it was crazy, but it was so intense and you guys all became so famous and big and I wonder what that was like for you and how it perhaps altered the course of, of your career afterwards.
- [34:20]
Michael Bruno
I mean, I think it did alter the course of my career for sure. I think I love the age I was when it happened because I was old enough to know, oh, this is fun, but it's not everything. And I think it made me feel, you know, it just sort of solidified my career a bit. And I think, you know, from that I felt confident to, you know, go out and approach, you know, a couple of brands that I, you know, I called Palacek I and I said, hey, like, I'd love to do something for you because, you know, I grew up with Palacek. It was all over my parents house, but it hadn't really changed since I was a kid. And that was sort of my selling point to them, how I could help them, you know, expand their brand. Not necessarily my brand, but. And I thought it was a lot of fun designing furniture. And I think the show helped me have that voice because why else would they be listening to me? And I think the same with my, my fabric collection and my lighting Collections and all of.
- [35:37]
Dennis Scully
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- [36:18]
Michael Bruno
Now back to the show.
- [36:24]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
And how do you think about your licensing deals and what do they represent to you? Are they part of how you, you build your name? Do they become a separate business and how do you think about it?
- [36:39]
Michael Bruno
You know, it's hard because I originally thought they would be this separate entity, but not so much because I think I tried to make it separate. But I think these days it's moving into a more organic overview of my design career. And I think that that's why it's so important to go after brands that you respect that have been around, that you like the people. But you know, there are instances where I follow my intuition. Now, there happened to be a lighting company. I'm just going to call it the biggest lighting company that we all know about. They approached me about doing a lighting collection, but they wanted it something that I didn't feel authentic to me and felt very formal. And they also just weren't nice to work with. And I thought that right then I'm like, wait a minute, yes, I've always wanted to have a lighting collection here, but they just didn't feel comfortable to me in any way. I look back to and I know, I'm sure you've interviewed Keith Granite. I look back to the people that offer you the water when you come in and sit down. And they did not do that. They just have a rudeness to them, an arrogance. And it didn't work at all for me. And I think I'm better off today not being with that collaboration. And I think you have to follow that little voice that says, huh? And you know, whether it be a client that you're doing a beautiful house for that you've always wanted to do or a lighting collection for the biggest company in America, you have to follow your intuition of, hey, this sort of doesn't feel right. I don't like the way they called me or missed a phone call or missed a meeting or it all comes down to respect, I think, in the design community. And for me, I need to follow that at this stage of my career.
- [38:51]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Yeah, no, no, makes total sense.
- [38:53]
Dennis Scully
Stay with that same notion, Jeffrey, if.
- [38:55]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
You would, because it's interesting to apply that, as you were just saying, to clients and how clients can send you messages about whether or not they're going to be a good client, a kind or respectful client, whether they're going to be someone that you want to work with over what turns out to be so many years now that projects can take, what do you look out for? What guides you in thinking about who you work with and who you don't.
- [39:27]
Michael Bruno
You know, in the first blink, honestly, whether you're going to work well together. And so much of us just ignore it. And I think that you really just have to listen. You have to be quiet, you have to listen to them. Don't so much talk, just listen to what they're saying. And I think you'll know. You know, I've taken on some horrible, horrible projects. Like I just did a room in Connecticut. Well, not a room, but the entire main level. And just from the most alpha person I've ever met. Just abusive. Didn't. There was no trust. There was, you know, sort of every time I'd go into her house, she'd have me on, you know, close circuit tv watching every move that I was making, like, just argued about the bills, like. And I knew that in the very get go. And I'm like, oh, well, I'm new to Connecticut. This will be fun. She's very prominent in the Greenwich society. I'm like, oh, she'll introduce me around. It'll be fun. And I happened to be free too. I'm like, oh, well, I've got, you know, these employees and I'll keep them busy. And it's a learning experience for them because they were new. Don't forget they were new. So I'm like, oh, this is a great project because it's not too big. So that was a nice way, but it just wasn't. And it was a. It soured the entire office for, you know, at least six or eight months. And it just was horrendous and. But I stayed with it. I was a gentleman and I just needed to see it out. But I can't do that anymore. I'm just too old. I'm too old. Life is too important. I mean, why not? I would rather go pick my daughter up from school in the afternoon than have a meeting with this woman. Like, you know, the 20th meeting discussing, you know, oh, she doesn't like the trim on the sofa. You know, I just. Life's too short. And I think you have to look at the overall picture of your career and think, is this really going to make or break it?
- [41:39]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Yeah. Talking about the economic times today, not just related to how much more things are costing, but all of this talk of tariffs and all of the uncertainty that's been created around that, is that showing up in your world in any meaningful way?
- [41:56]
Michael Bruno
Do you know, tariffs are not showing up so much immediately, but they will. And it's funny being in England last week and speaking at the Chelsea Design center, that was a good 20 minutes discussion. Because they're more worried because where they make their money is America shipping it to America. And I think everyone is horribly concerned about it. And if they do and how much they are. And there's so much up in the air right now that I think there's this fear. So, yes, I think it's discussed more so abroad than it is in America. But it's a scary time because, I mean, a lot of my sofas, for instance, are all done in England. Is that right? Yeah. All my upholstery good is either Hal or George Smith or something, probably English. And, you know, a lot of my lighting is jam and I use sewn a lot. You know, it's probably 40% of what I make. If I don't do it custom, it comes from England. So it is going to be a scary time for someone. I'm in the midst of a lot of projects right now, so it's not really a concern. But if I was starting a project today, it's a huge concern.
- [43:14]
Dennis Scully
Right, but do you find that having.
- [43:16]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
The upholstery made over in the UK is just more economical or you just like the style or the.
- [43:22]
Michael Bruno
Oh, it's more about the style. It's definitely not economical and it's not economical to shit. You know, I'm not saying everything is made over there, but I know when to pick my pieces. And I'm not the designer that's just going to do it just for the sake of doing it. But it has to be the right house and it has to be the right client. It has to be the right relationship that. I happen to love a certain brand of sofas that is made there and I've tried to make it here, to be honest, and it's just not the same. But we do things better than them, too. I design a lot of my furniture custom at my manufacturers in Los Angeles. And there's nothing better than that either. So I think it's all about mixing the right things. And that's what makes a designer a decorator.
- [44:13]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Look at you. Look at you bringing that home. Finally, Jeffrey, as we wrap up, because I've kept you for a bunch, but I want to touch on your book, which I have right here on my lap as we've been talking. And I'm wondering, tell me what you wanted to come out of this. Of this book, why you wanted to do this now, and what it represents for you, besides showing off your. Your lovely home in Greenwich, Connecticut, which you're. Which you're packing up and leaving as quickly as you can.
- [44:40]
Michael Bruno
Well, the other two houses are in there, though, so my husband and I have a house in Montecito now and East Hampton. So those are our two primary places to be, I think, which is a nice contrast, especially for raising a daughter, to have that little bit of east coast time in the summer and holidays. But I think it was a time in my life where, okay, it's been 12, 13 years since my last book. There's a few things I want to say, a few things I want to add. Out of the 25, 30 houses I've done in the past 10 years, what are the houses that. Not necessarily the best houses, but the houses that speak to me about what I want to say now? And I think this is home. The name of the book was so important to me, and that was really what I was trying to say is what is home now? What is home? After the pandemic, everyone moved around. Everyone transplanted and moved to their second homes and moved back and. And sort of what made the space that you ended up in sort of like musical chairs. What made that home? And I think these were the houses that I saw the most turbulence in. All of my clients gravitate towards these particular houses.
- [46:07]
Dennis Scully
And what does a book make possible.
- [46:10]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
For you when you put a book out? And so you're on your book tour now. You were just over in London doing a book signing. You've got one coming up here in New York, and you're going to be on the circuit.
- [46:23]
Dennis Scully
What is that?
- [46:24]
Michael Bruno
Oh, my gosh. I think it's a really nice way to bankrupt you.
- [46:31]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
That's how it turns out. It's really a good way to burn through money. Speak.
- [46:35]
Michael Bruno
Speak to my bookkeeper. She's like, is it really a book expense again? But, yeah, you do know what? It's a vanity project, to be honest. I don't think it Will never make any money. Okay. It's a fun way to chat again and to catch up with people that you probably haven't seen in a while. And it's a nice thing. You know, I definitely introduced my daughter in this book and you see her rooms and, you know, where she likes to play and whatnot. So I think that was important to me. Something to leave behind when I leave this earth. I have, you know, these couple of books that people can be like, oh, oh, that's what he was about.
- [47:16]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Yeah. Speaking of things that you wanted to say and speaking of your charming and lovely daughter, how do you think about. You talked about showing some of her rooms in the book and introducing her to people. And I noticed she's made an appearance recently on Social as well. And I wonder how you think about that and how you think about yourself on social media. There seems to be this push pull with a lot of decorators about, oh, should I be showing more of my private life or should I be making people laugh with crazy behind the scenes goings on? Too bad there wasn't social media back in the million dollar decorator days or the show would have really gotten spicy.
- [48:00]
Michael Bruno
Oh, my God. Ye Bravo is the one that made me go on Instagram and I'm like, why? Why? It was toward the end of the second season and they made me go on Instagram and start, and I'm like, what? Why? So it is interesting how far we've come since then, but I do think you have to use it again organically, as you want to use it. I am never too careful about what I present. And I do see people that are so good. Like, I mean, I'll watch Nate Berkus on Instagram, like, and he always tells an amazing story and you learn something from it. And I'm like, I'm never gonna do that either. But I'm not going to be the designer that just shows my work. I think there needs to be a happy medium between both because it is Instagram. And if you really think about it, it was supposed to be in the moment and not necessarily too planned, too thought out. You're not there, I think. And I have this argument with my husband. He's like, oh, you know, it is your new website. Well, no, it's not. I have a website. If you want to look at my work and not my daughter, go to my website and you'll see my work, my present work and my licensing deals. I'm not going to shove them down your throat on an Instagram.
- [49:25]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Okay, so Two questions about your daughter to wrap this up. One, would it fill you with delight if she decided that she too wanted to go into the business and become a decorator?
- [49:37]
Michael Bruno
I don't think I would mind terribly, but I don't think it's a decorator. I don't think she cares. I think she'll hire a decorator. She'll probably hire me, But I don't think she'll.
- [49:47]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
She'll recognize the importance of a decorator.
- [49:50]
Michael Bruno
Yes, absolutely. But I don't see her ever being a decorator. But it wouldn't bother me if she did.
- [49:56]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Okay. Because I was going to ask you if you, in conclusion, if you thought she was going that way, what advice you would give her. What I'm curious about for you is.
- [50:08]
Dennis Scully
What turned out to be far more.
- [50:10]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Challenging about being a decorator than you.
- [50:13]
Dennis Scully
Might have thought in the beginning.
- [50:15]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
And how did you learn to overcome that?
- [50:19]
Michael Bruno
You know, I have a tremendous amount of patience. But I will say I think the patience level with people I didn't realize was going to be so hard. I think it's patience. I think it's time. I think you don't realize how long it takes to make this house actually work, that you are conceiving this beautiful house, room, apartment, whatever it might be. And it takes a long time and it takes patience. And I'm not talking about patience with people, I'm talking about patience with workmen and how the production happens on a day to day basis and how the project manager makes that happen. And it's everyone working together. And I think that takes a tremendous amount of patience. To be honest, I couldn't have said that at 35 years old. I was not that guy. I was a worker. I worked, worked, worked. And you know, I think now is a more relaxing phase of my life, that I can do the work I want to do, do it well, but also have family time.
- [51:30]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Yeah. Well, you seem like you're in a good place and soon you'll be back in California.
- [51:35]
Michael Bruno
I can't wait. Right?
- [51:37]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
I mean, yeah.
- [51:38]
Michael Bruno
And also I think this time we'll appreciate it a lot more than we did, you know, because, you know, and it's not so much California. You're just meant to be where you're meant to be. And whether it's Connecticut, New York, you know, London, wherever it is, you're just supposed to be there.
- [51:55]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Well, I'm so happy for you to be going back there. I'm thrilled that we got to spend the time and, and I thank you so much. For making the time.
- [52:02]
Michael Bruno
Thank you so much.
- [52:06]
Dennis Scully
Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with.
- [52:08]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
The latest design industry news, visit us online@businessofhome.com where you can sign up for.
- [52:13]
Dennis Scully
Our newsletter, browse job listings, and join our BOH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more.
- [52:23]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
If you have a note for the.
- [52:24]
Dennis Scully
Podcast, drop us a line@podcastusofhome.com if you're.
- [52:29]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
Enjoying these conversations, please leave us a.
- [52:31]
Dennis Scully
Review on Apple Podcasts.
- [52:33]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
It helps others to discover the show.
- [52:35]
Dennis Scully
This show was produced by Fred Nicholas.
- [52:37]
Jeffrey Alan Marks
And edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully.
- [52:41]
Dennis Scully
Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.