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Business of Home Podcast
How Roche Bobois blends furniture, fashion, and the French 'Art de Vivre'
00:49:18
The international director of the celebrated French brand shares the story of the company, and the challenges he sees ahead
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- [00:04]
Dennis Scully
This is Business of Home. I'm your host Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is Martin Gliese, the international director of the French brand Roche Beaubois. Founded in 1960, over the decades Roche Beaubois has become synonymous with chic contemporary design. The first furniture brand to advertise in fashion magazines today, Roche Babois hit products include the iconic Mah Jongg and bubble sofas, and hundreds of the brand's showrooms are spread out all over the world. I spoke with Martin on why the post Covid landscape is fraught with confusion.
- [00:50]
Martin Gliese
For furniture companies, the opportunities and challenges.
- [00:54]
Dennis Scully
In China, and why the biggest mistake for any brand is to try and be two things at once. This podcast is sponsored by Liloi, maker of rugs, pillows and wall art for the thoughtfully layered home. This fall at High Point, Liloi introduced a breadth of new collections for all styles, all aesthetics and all price points. Visit liloirugs.com to see what's new and sign up for a trade account that's L o l o I rugs.com follow them on Instagram and TikTok loloyrugs. This podcast is also sponsored by Annie Selke. Rooms may come in different shapes and sizes, but that doesn't mean you have to settle for a rug with a so so fit. Annie Selkie known for their best in class, Dash and Albert rugs offer more than 140 custom sized rugs to suit not only any space but also every style from farmhouse to coastal and everything in between. Whether you opt for hand tufted wool, durable indoor, outdoor or natural jute, Annie Selkies custom size rugs will always give you a flawless fit down to the inch. To learn more, visit aniselkie.com that's a.
- [02:19]
Martin Gliese
N n I e s e l.
- [02:21]
Dennis Scully
K e dot com and now on with the show.
- [02:28]
Martin Gliese
I want to begin by really telling the story of Roche Beaubois and its origin and its history. Because I think while many people in this country are familiar with the brand, I'd be surprised if they really knew the story and the history. So I'd love to share it.
- [02:50]
Well, it's a history that we formally date back to 1960. We date back Robois to the union of two families who decided to join forces and create a brand. So rather than having two retail shops, retail showrooms, that would be Mr. And Mrs. Roche Furniture Limited and the other branch would be Mr. And Mrs. Beaubois they said we have to, you know, we have to build something that goes beyond. And we want not only to retail, but we also want to edit. And so we date back that idea to 1960, where Roche and Beaubois became Roche Beauvoir. And then in 1960, we have those two showrooms in Paris. So they would corner the market. And little by little, what they developed their own operation, their own showrooms in Paris, more showrooms in Paris. And then they had the idea to franchise. So they were very much trailblazers to the aspect that they started in France. This franchising trend at the very early stage. Very quickly the franchising went to the us, it went to Belgium, it went to spread it quickly. They were very dynamic bunch. They also, this time very quickly started to edit their own collections with exclusivities, with manufacturers, with designers. So the genes of what we do were there. And this is why we formally date back to 1960.
- [04:30]
Well, and it sounded as though, in looking at the history, it sounded as though the discovery of Scandinavian furniture and the Scandinavian Furniture Fair back in the day made a big impression.
- [04:42]
Yes, it did, because it was a trend that they really imported in France. And little by little they also started to secure exclusivities and have people work for them. So that at some point Roche Baubon Scandinavian designs were very combined.
- [05:01]
You've used the word edit. And they wanted to be editors. And I wonder if you could explain for listeners what that means and how the company thought about it. You also talked about building a brand, which is so much of what I want to talk to you about today, because that's so much at the heart of what Roche Beaubois is all about. But tell me about the early thinking there.
- [05:26]
The brand is a key notion because I think back then there was only distributors. The most probably there was of a brand was whatever Smith family furniture. That would be the kind of brand, but in abstract, an abstract name that would define a style didn't really exist back then. So that was sort of the idea that did exist in fashion, but not so much yet in furniture and design. So it was a matter of trying to forget each other's name and create something that is above the name. Mr. And Mrs. The Shoshon family understood that it was better to let go their name to create something that would create attention. And Beauboise is a creation. Beauboise means beautiful wood. So that's the brand. And the other anecdotes are actually strategy that they were very innovative with was advertising. Advertising in outside of the furniture world. So they were the first ones to advertise in the fashion magazines, for instance. So Roche Beauvoir would become an early lifestyle brand. Be editors also. Looking at it from today, everybody wants to be an editor. Everybody wants to own their collections and distribute something that they created or that they can sign for. There is a divide between the manufacturing world and the distribution world. It's two brains, like kind of left brain, right brain, sort of. So that was also a very innovative part where distributors, retailers like Roche Beaubois would also see a key point in owning their designs, but not manufacturing them.
- [07:28]
Well, that's what I found so interesting. When you first described all of this to me, I didn't realize that you didn't own any of your production facilities. Right. That everything is made by workshops throughout Europe and around the world. And that also you don't have, if I remember correctly, your own design team, per se. Right. You work with various designers who create for you. But they are not employees of Roche Beaubois necessarily.
- [08:01]
They are not. We have a team of what we could call buyers or sort of design office. But the creators, the designers are outsourced. They. You don't. You can't really have a talented designer being an employee. It's a different mindset. And I don't believe there's any of the great current designers in any field that are actually employed by a corporation. It's extraordinarily rare. They are free by definition. They are independent and they cannot be dictated. And the other thing, which also. That's the reality, as we can see. But we as a corporation wouldn't want to dictate our personal taste. That's not what we want to do. We want to have those three minds, those outstanding professions of design or architecture, to freely imagine the synthesis between their style and how it should apply to our brand. And that, by definition, can only be done with people outside the company.
- [09:15]
So getting back to the brand and the origin, what was the brand in the very beginning about? What did the families decide they wanted Rochebabois to stand for? Because, as you say, they weren't going to be making their own product, they were going to be selecting product and they were advertising, trying to present a brand message right from the very beginning. And you've remained big advertisers over the. Over the years, which we'll talk about. But what was the brand? What is the brand all about?
- [09:50]
They wanted to be innovative. They wanted to be having a real sense of creation to set their mark in the world. And they also had something that not everybody had. They absolutely had in their mind that things should be comfortable and quality. So this is the whole circle. Innovation, creation, quality and comfort. The other element is that they wanted to develop, they wanted to go to the world. These men and women had a huge dynamism and huge ambition for and believed so much in those values that you just described. But they thought they were fit for the entire world.
- [10:42]
And in the beginning, you described the model of franchising. And it sounds as though you've taken back a lot of the franchises now over time. So at what point did that change come and what brought that about?
- [11:00]
Well, many things happen in the world of franchise over time. First of all, this change of generations, you know, the father, the grandfather sometimes pass it on to the children. Children successfully make it. Some children don't successfully make it. Some children decide it's not their thing. So then what are the options? And we would always be there, usually to either select a new franchisee or actually think we can do it better, or don't find a fit alternative franchisee and just maintain the brand locally. So it's not a strategy. It was not a strategy to take over franchises. Only recently, very recently, that we have done a more strategic shift, in particular in China. And China is a case on its own. And we can't make it on our own in this huge and mysterious country in terms of distribution. So that's, that's more like a strategic move when the other ones were more opportunistic.
- [12:05]
So you are just back from China? I'm just back from High Point. You're just back from China. And so I want to compare notes on both of those because it's very top of mind for me. But China was a big discussion at High Point because people are wondering what's really happening on the ground. Obviously, the Chinese government appears to be trying to stimulate the economy again and get things going. We've seen big surges in Chinese shares here in the US and around the world. And I wonder, what's your perception of what is happening there?
- [12:41]
It's quite difficult, I think, to analyze these days, the furniture business numbers, because all the furniture business has been positively affected by the COVID aftermath. Everybody has had such a search that it's tough right now to understand what is just a slowdown to readjust to what is a more realistic market and demand, what could be a shift in the trend. So this readjustment is hard. I find it very hard to read. And in America it is. I mean, currently we, you know we are, we've been stagnating this year. We were always used to growth. We have this small decrease last year and this year we are flat. So there it could be disappointing. However, it's vastly above the numbers pre Covid. But are we realigning, are we in a little bit of a recession because of the economic factors? And when I say economic factors, it's probably mostly the interest rates affecting the real estate that are affecting us. This whole trend, we see it exactly the same in China. It's the same. We've had very high numbers in the years 21, 22, early part of 23. Maybe it's cooling off right now. But where do you draw the line between a cool off and an issue in the market? So this is, I think this is where we are not worried. However, we shouldn't be naive either. But it's the first time in my experience in furniture for more than 20 years where I find it very hard to estimate what is the growth level we should expect ahead of us and how to ascertain this excess of orders somehow that we have in two years, how does it affect the current market? And this is sort of shaking a little bit our capacity to forecast. So that's my understanding or actually should I say my total non understanding of how to budget quantified. However, what we see is that we are finding growth again and we are also finding high quality customers that have never really left. And we are also seeing that the real estate market looks like it's stabilizing probably on the way up in Europe at least. And the other positive factor is that the markets, the stock markets, the stock exchange markets, financial markets or pretty strong. And should there not be any outstanding aggravation factor, we should have a better 25 than 24.
- [16:00]
Dennis Scully
We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you that whether you have a tiny bedroom or a grand hallway, Annie Selke has more than 140 rug designs that can be custom sized for the perfect fit with the same quality and craftsmanship you've come to expect from Annie Selke. The collection includes exclusive hand woven styles from celebrated collaborators Bunny Williams and Marie Flanagan. Large swatches are available as well as in house experts to help you place your order. The best part, most custom sized rugs ship in just two to three weeks. Visit anniecelke.com to learn more. That's a N N I E S e l k e.com and now back to the show.
- [16:52]
Martin Gliese
When did Roche Beaubois first come to America? And tell me A little bit about how you thought about coming to America and the American market.
- [17:02]
It happened through Canada, actually, because we obviously through the French language there was proximity with Quebec. And our first franchise in North America was in Quebec and then some curious franchise. Vnc, Maurice vnc. That was a big name.
- [17:23]
Oh, right, sure.
- [17:25]
Understood that it was a good business and started the business in America, in New York City. You know, if we, if we understand that the company was founded in 1960, pretty much 10 years after there was already a presence in North America. So it's, it's. It's not very linear. It's an expansion that would be similar to the luxury brands. Fashion. Luxury brands. So we can draw a very clear parallel with, with the luxury fashion industry.
- [17:59]
Yes. And it seems as if much of your approach is very similar to the French luxury brands when it comes to marketing and positioning and again, branding. And often the furniture industry, as you were suggesting earlier, is criticized for not doing a good enough job when it comes to branding. And many people point to the success of the lifestyle retailers. And here we go. Martin, here's going to be the first mention of RH in the conversation. But RH and Aur House as well. Many people point to the fact that they did such a good job of branding themselves and the product. Not that it was secondary, but that the branding was what was so important. And I want to hear your thoughts about how you think about branding and positioning because many people in the furniture industry feel it's challenging for them to have the resources to really advertise and market themselves.
- [19:06]
Yes, it's exactly where the two worlds divide. Those who believe in branding and those who don't have enough margin or don't have enough resource to actually create everybody who likes their name to become a brand, even Mr. And Mrs. Smith furniture of wherever in Alabama, they would like to be a brand. That is their name. And. But creating a. Creating a brand, you have to have the means. RH is the master of all. For her, for. For creating a name and having the means. What they've been doing is hugely respectable. And it's a new way to approach banks through a wrong. But again, they are a company that don't manufacture. So they allocate their resource to the branding, to the lifestyle, to the. The jeune sais quoi that will allow the brand to be desirable. That's probably the way, the only way to emerge. There's not many successful companies that have not created a brand. The expert company that just shines because they are expert and reputable. Somewhere they can live, but they sooner or later become taken over by another company that is able to federate through rom.
- [20:45]
And so is it your feeling, because I'm always curious what you think RH has done so successfully. And you mentioned this point about the margins. So so often the furniture manufacturers will tell you we simply don't have the margins to allocate all of these resources to brand building. Of course, to your point, we'd love to build our brand. We'd love to be a household name. We'd love, when you ask consumers, instead of answering Ikea, we wish they would say our brand as the most recognized brand in furniture. Right? But they don't. But because they're manufacturers, they just don't have the margin. If you're an editor, if someone else is manufacturing for you, does that suggest that you have a wider margin and therefore you have the resources for branding, or is it about your priorities?
- [21:35]
No, not necessarily. Because first of all, there are manufacturers that have successfully created a name which has become a brand. And you can imagine all the luxury Italian manufacturers who are brands, but they have allocated a substantial amount of money to develop something. So either they develop advertising or they develop a network of influencers or prescribers, screw interior designers, architects and so on. But they have allocated some of the money to something. So you have to understand that at some point, it's not about having the lowest price possible, it's about having a reasonable value, but something else that allows you to do. Be it an outstanding distribution system like RH did, which is a crazy, inspiring distribution network, or you've actually managed to make it so attractive to architects, interior designers, prescribers to work with manufacturers, because you would be able to distribute a furniture and make a good money out of it. And this is more the Italian business model. You buy from a manufacturer, but there's enough profit in the reselling price and there is enough lifestyle around it, because, you know, working with those Italian manufacturers, their products to this bit only to travel to the region of the lakes in Italy where you discover all of this. So there has to be an idea, there has to be value in the system. If there is strictly quality and cost as close as possible to quality, and no vision to create a name in advertising or to create an experience, there's just a limited potential for global expansion.
- [23:38]
You approach the US market in a different way than the Italians, for example, and many of the companies that are at the higher end in that you are very focused, if I understand your strategy, on the end user, on the Consumer and you want to build a brand to them and your hope is that they will push Roche Beaubois to their interior designer, to their architect and say, no, no, I want this product. How has that worked for you? And does that seem contrary to what most people try and do in the US and how do you think about that?
- [24:20]
I don't think somebody can create a business and say, I will price my product like this and so that I can squeeze the. I don't think it happens like this. I think it happened so that in the past, our founders, when they decided that there has an app, there was an absolute necessity to support a name, to create a name in the industry to be Roche beaubois rather than Mr. And Mrs. Roche from Paris. It needs money to do this because you need to, you know, spend a little bit of advertising in the magazine. You need to do some events. You need to create that value that makes your company into a household name or a lifestyle brand. And that has a cost. So that cost. And also, sorry, I should add an important element. You want to have a nice showroom. You want to have something that is not a destination showroom. It's something that works also as advertising, that participating, building the name, building the brand. All of this has a cost. So I don't even think they said, okay, let's price this like that, because we will strategize that way. They needed that money to build the brand, so they had to allocate the money entirely to their system and not to the resellers, not to the distributors, not to the prescribers, not to the architects. And so was it a decision to talk to the end customer? Yes, it was. But the way the pricing has been built has been built made it that it was the only way. There was not enough profit there to pay for the company and also for the in between. So it's very difficult to understand and to say, yes, it's been created like this. But out of necessity, we've always talked to the end user because we've spent the money to go to them and talk directly to them and try and make them understand that we are the proposal, we are the desire, we are the expertise, and we are the source.
- [26:46]
And so the hope is that you educate the consumer and then the consumer in turn, if they're not purchasing directly themselves, they're encouraging their designer to purchase Roche Beaubois.
- [27:00]
We try to have to hope that happens. We try to build enough desire in the brand so that they will make it one of the names they want in their homes. And we also try and have enough of a good service with interior designers in House, with 3D service, with experts. And if you sum this with the desirability of the brand, we have a whole distribution system. And I think somehow this is the same approach as RH for instance. It's probably we have more design, we have more lifestyle, but they have more of an experience in their showroom. But it comes to the same driver of making it a necessity to stop by that this name or our name to get to the bottom of their new styling scenario.
- [28:09]
So do I understand you correctly in that the thinking was if we're going to prioritize branding and advertising and making beautiful spaces, we also don't have enough margin to create a meaningful designer discount on top of that. Is that how you think about it?
- [28:32]
I think you describe it well. If we want to maintain a good value for the clients to make a competitive product, stay in the market and have a nice showroom and have good stuff that is going to give you quality advice, follow up service and also support the name in the main marketing media so that there's desire, then there's not really a justification on top of that to hugely remunerate the in between. We keep enough, we keep what we think is reasonable to satisfy the designers because they do a job, they work so they will get a decent commission. But it's not the primary business model. For some companies it's the primary business model. This is how they attract clients is through a larger discount. We have considered that we want to have a little discount, a little allocation of money for nice rents, a little advertising and a little lifestyle and advice in household. I would say we have made a compromise of everything.
- [30:03]
Dennis Scully
We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Leloi, whose fall introductions for all styles included new collections from collaborators Amber Lewis, Magnolia Home by Joanna Gaines and Rifle Paper company Plus newly added one of a kind rugs, pillows and wall art. Visit theloyrugs.com to see them all. That's L O l o I rugs.com and @the loy rugs on Instagram and Tick Tock. And now back to the show.
- [30:40]
Martin Gliese
When I spoke to Daniel Leland, right, From what he calls his company today. Is it Floss B and B Italia? I think yes. Okay, so he too is trying to figure all of this out, right? I got the sense he'd love to get rid of the trade discount altogether. He finds it a confusing message. Right? And I know that, I know that for Both of you. Pricing integrity is very important and pricing is so easily discoverable today that it's challenging.
- [31:18]
Luckily, we have always had at heart that we talk to the end client with transparency. This has been the DNA, but I understand exactly where these guys come from, where their strength always relied on their pre distributors, on their middlemen which were the ones who would distribute and would attract. But it's hard to build transparency in the system. It's very difficult because effectively the end client has always had a hard time traditionally to understand what's the real price of a product and the type price of. In that type of industry. The type price has a reputation to mean sometimes this, sometimes that. And I know they are working hugely on creating a more retail aspect of their business. Even though they actually don't sell much in retail, very little, they do want to integrate that transparency and that more corporate aspect. So I think they are in the opposite space of where we are. We have always dedicated our energy to talk and to give everything we can in terms of clarity, transparency, service quality to the end user. That's always been our. And we have a hard time to attract designers who make a living with distributing furniture. These people, of course we have always understood that it cannot be our business model and to the contrary, they today understand that history and transparency and the Internet for the past 10 years and Instagram and the non stop forums and chats that you can find make it challenging to keep a reputation. So yeah, but after all what we can discover, and I think what they are discovering now, what I've experienced as well, is you cannot do both things. You cannot be a wholesaler and a retailer. It just doesn't add up. At some point the bronze, the companies have to decide if they want to do retail or if they want to do wholesale. And a 50, 50 case is hugely risky. At some point I think Braun has to decide which channel of distribution he wants to go to.
- [33:44]
It's interesting that you say that because that was, that was one of the big issues that came up a lot in High Point was channel conflict and the, and the complexity of. And many designers will tell you, and they, and they often tell me I don't want to shop somewhere where that product is available to my client. And so that's challenging. Or my client can see the pricing and I don't have room for a markup or so that, that's one challenge. But then the challenge too is this is an industry that has been so long serving the retailer and now so many retailers are going away for Various reasons similar to what you describe with the franchise model. Often it's the next generation. The children don't want the family furniture business and. Right. And so many outlets are going away. Maurice Valencia used to be one of the big names, right? Yeah. I mean, and it's a very challenging time. And at the same time, nobody tells me that the Internet or online sales has replaced all of that. Everyone I talk to, they talk about their website, but they don't tell me that transactions at that scale are happening on their website.
- [35:05]
I think we are all living the same experience. This type of purchase, this type of engagement requires material senses and human experience. It will come, there's no question. But we are still not there. But it's probably a question of company reputation and of experience, meaning that today we are probably still behind in terms of technology to be convincing enough to convince on the comfort, on the proportions. But there will come a time, I don't know, maybe it's a matter of five to 10 years where we will have enough quality videos, enough 3D tools and enough ease to project a product in a room. And some creative minds will probably simulate comfort wise, what it looks like, that it will increase, it will increase. But at the very high end of the market, people want service, people want advice. The point is that you don't want to spend dozens of hours trying to figure things out. And this is a luxury. This is what luxury is about, is making it simple. So I think the more the luxury, the more distance there will be. But at some point, you know, again, when technology is ready, you click a button, you show your room around and you receive enough good material visually with a service now between, there's no doubt in my mind, there's no doubt. And the lower you go in the market, the more there is of online sales, even if it remains marginal. But we have to be prepared for that. Definitely.
- [36:59]
No, no, that's an interesting point because the lower you go, the online sales is already happening. There isn't that barrier to. Yes, yes, no, no, I agree. And I think when the Apple Vision Pro, when they look like hourglasses that we're wearing now and all of the technology is still there and as you say, they create something.
- [37:17]
Yeah, I think at this stage we have still not managed, I mean we, I think I talk about the luxury industry to merge the service and the online. So there's two worlds. There's a world of the showroom where you have the product, the service, and there's a world of the catalog, the online catalog. So to Speak. So either to bring the online in the showroom or bring the showroom in people's home by way of service and so on. There's lots of things I'm working on currently.
- [37:52]
Oh, are you?
- [37:53]
Yeah. We have to make, we have to make the Internet more desirable and it's in a way a question of converting the traffic, the online traffic to the showroom. So of course we have to today is not anymore into converting whoever pushes the door to another. It's whoever comes online to go to the showroom. When somebody's in the showroom, it's very high rates of success. So the whole thing is to convert. So it doesn't really matter that the transaction goes to the end online. This is not exactly the, what's the KPI is how much people engage not only with the brand but with the product, with the, you know, the customization. This is what really matters. And as long as they experience the products, we think that they, there's a higher chance that they push the door and then, you know, we have so much experience. This is the easy part when they get to the door. The tougher part today is to convert a catalog experience into a real life experience. I don't think the benchmark is whoever makes sales online. It's how many of your traffic online can you convert to actually visit? This is the new, this is the new quest.
- [39:08]
Yeah. No, and I think you make such a good point about bringing a more luxury feel to the, to the website. And I think that, I think that so much attention right now is focused on the visual, but I actually think that ChatGPT and a lot of the conversational interaction that we're having with technology today is going to play a very important role in what websites will be able to do for you in the not too distant future. Because I think if you could ask real questions of the Roche Babois website and have one of your interior design trained associates be a response that would, that would feel like a completely different experience. And I don't think that's far off.
- [39:54]
Yes, absolutely. It's, it's bringing service, bringing service to, to the Internet and a real life experience. It's a challenge. It's a challenge.
- [40:06]
Yes. Well, and I think we're starting to see Apple intelligence and we're starting to see all of these different companies try and at least show us what might be worthwhile tools in the, in the future. And it sounds like you're very focused on the website and making investments.
- [40:22]
Website, any digital, not just the website, but the Social network platforms, wherever we can engage with clients on a high end, high level of quality perception.
- [40:38]
Well, you, as we've talked about throughout this conversation, you've been, you've been a longtime advertiser in, in the shelter magazines and even more broadly. And I mean you were always on the back cover of this magazine, that magazine. And I wonder how you're, how you're thinking about shelter magazines and the role that they play today. And you just mentioned about the social media platforms. Are more of your resources going to social media today for example, then versus shelter magazines or how do you think about it?
- [41:12]
Well, of course the, we are not spending a bigger share today in the traditional press than before. I think we probably, if we would summarize, we probably spent as much money, but we've tripled the business, for instance, in the US Since I started with the US we trebled the business and we, so they have lost market share with us. But that's quite normal because they have not evolved either. They have maintained their circulation. Not so many have increased. They have alternatives online. So we've worked with the Wall Street Journal for instance, and the New York Times for a long time and we do spend actually more and more with our online services. We have hugely increased, of course the media spend with Google, with Facebook, with the Instagram. However, we must say that the daily newspapers, the New York Times in particular and the Wall Street Journal, but we can also same with Boston, Los Angeles Times, they have maintained such a high level of customers of readers and they maintain some circulation, but we still consider it mandatory to be in those pages because the perception is very high of an advertiser being in these papers. And all the luxury players are hugely present in the press, in the paper press team. So yes, we have increased hugely in digital, but we do remain present in the press. And if you think about it, the cost of the press per thousand of copies is not so high actually in particular in the decoration and lifestyle press. It's not that expensive and it's the easiest readers. They are the highest quality readers after all, where either they are very knowledgeable or they are in an immediate cycle of purchase. So that's why we probably won't walk away anytime soon from these traditional mediums. But we have to make a lot of space for the new text and what people make, the use people make of the social networks, which is more and more sophisticated. The way the digital experience has been able to target who we need, who we want. It's just there's no nothing that can compare to these sort of tools. So of course that's the, that's the future.
- [44:00]
So in saying that and we talked about the focus on the end user, is any part of that budget aimed towards going after designers or trying to cater to them in different markets around, around the U.S. or not?
- [44:19]
We actually do. We. But we don't spend. We, we make sure first of all, like again like I said, is that we make sure the brand is desirable. So if they, if their business model is to push for good names for their house, that they're working on their residential project, that our name is equally desirable that any of the big Italian names, for instance. So that's something that is not directly targeted but that's useful for them. But we also spend in every city once or twice a year. We invite the community to events because it's more community management rather than advertising or any other traditional marketing. We have to bring a content. So it's a luncheon. It's this sort of, this sort of approach more through events where we want to try to make people meet, enjoy and entertain somehow. So that would be more the approach.
- [45:28]
With this profession in wrapping up and earlier you talked about the challenge of trying to forecast right now. And of course it is a very challenging time. Much of the industry seems focused on getting past. Obviously the big elections here in the US are very distracting. Housing market has been very challenging. Hopefully rates will be coming down soon. Says the industry. If you imagine the summer of 2025 looking a lot better business wise than it does right now, what does that make you want to work on and focus on? What does that make you want to have ready for. For next summer?
- [46:11]
I would really want to have showrooms that are so impeccable, so inspiring that they become even more of a reference that at the moment you approach the place you already want to belong to this world. The other thing is absolutely necessary is to bring a digital experience in the showrooms. Meaning that we have so many fascinating tools, we work so much in terms of video content designer interacting digitally, customization online. I would like this to be accessible to everybody who pushes the door and to merge the two worlds, the worlds of the website, the world of all of the digital content which is extremely rich today. This needs to be embedded in the showroom experience. This needs to be the narrative of all of the same stuff.
- [47:18]
And when you look at the success that RH seemingly has had with restaurants and hospitality, does it ever make you wish that there was a Roche Beaubois burger that you were offering to people? Could you see an element of hospitality included in some of your locations.
- [47:37]
It would definitely make sense and it would be a great part of the experience. But realistically, it needs a critical size that we don't have yet. It's possible that we venture into the hotel facet before restaurant. It's a, it's a possibility, but just simply because through our Parisian prison we, we see hotels and as something very natural restaurants could be, but we see also the offer of furniture integrating a hotel is very natural. But I think this is, this could be the next level. The next level.
- [48:20]
Dennis Scully
Okay.
- [48:20]
Martin Gliese
Well, we'll look for that in the future. Martin, I want to thank you so much for your time. I've so enjoyed the opportunity to speak with you.
- [48:28]
It was really a pleasure.
- [48:31]
Dennis Scully
Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with.
- [48:34]
Martin Gliese
The latest design industry news, visit us online@businessofhome.com where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings and join our BoH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the.
- [48:50]
Dennis Scully
Podcast, drop us a line@podcastusinessofhome.com if you're.
- [48:55]
Martin Gliese
Enjoying these conversations, please leave us a.
- [48:57]
Dennis Scully
Review on Apple Podcasts.
- [48:59]
Martin Gliese
It helps others to discover the show.
- [49:02]
Dennis Scully
This show was produced by Fred Nicholaus.
- [49:04]
Martin Gliese
And edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.