Inspired by English country houses, Jamb's Will Fisher built a unique institution

Summary

Podcast Summary: Business of Home Podcast

Episode: Inspired by English country houses, Jamb’s Will Fisher built a unique institution

Date: October 20, 2025
Host: Dennis Scully
Guest: Will Fisher (Co-founder, Jamb)

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Overview & Main Theme

This episode features Dennis Scully in conversation with Will Fisher, the founder of Jamb, a celebrated British company specializing in antiques, reproductions, and lighting. The discussion traces Fisher’s journey from a precocious child enchanted by English country houses, through formative experiences in the antique trade, to building Jamb into a multifaceted design institution alongside his wife, Charlotte Freemantle.

The central theme of the episode is Fisher’s enduring passion for the English country house aesthetic, the evolution of the antiques business, and the creative, vocational—and at times, idiosyncratic—pathways he followed. The conversation explores generational changes, the impact of digital marketplaces, the preservation of craft and knowledge, and the importance of mentorship and collaboration in building a thriving creative legacy.

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Early Life & Formative Influences

Childhood Roots in Design ([02:49]–[05:50])

• Will Fisher describes a “super happy childhood” in Lewisham, raised by an artist father and a teacher mother who instilled strong, practical values.
• Despite modest means, Fisher was uniquely captivated by the grandeur of English country houses, dragging his family to visit places like Ragley Hall, and experiencing “sensory overload” in those environments.
  • Quote: “How can I have this beauty? How can I live with this beauty? But also, how can I understand this beauty?...It's like trying to learn a language...desperate to fully understand the communication.” – Will Fisher ([04:59])

Early Signs of Passion, Christie's & Mentorship ([05:50]–[08:16])

• At age 11, Will famously wrote to the chairman of Christie’s, asking for a job; he was invited to lunch with the board and later offered a summer job at age 16.
  • Quote: “I wasn’t short on passion or determination to sort of make this work.” – Will Fisher ([08:16])
• School was a struggle due to dyslexia and hyperactivity, diagnoses that led to challenges but also fueled his restless energy.

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The Crucible of Antiques: Mentors, Markets, and the "Man with the Van"

Warner Daly’s Influence ([08:48]–[18:04])

• Will’s entry into the antique world was accelerated by family friend Warner Daly, whose eclectic home and passion for British culture were formative.
  • Quote: “[Being in Warner’s house was] as if a bomb went off in my head...it was so beautiful...the most magical, magical house.” – Will Fisher ([08:48])
• Daly cultivated Fisher’s entrepreneurial spirit through experiences like the “Kippen Rough Club,” market escapades, and learning the economics of dealing—buying, selling, and collecting.
• Fisher recounts the thrill of his first independent deal: “Buying something for £80 and selling it for £160—it was just magical.” ([18:03])

Building Practical Skills & Resilience ([18:32]–[25:29])

• Daly’s departure left Fisher resourceful and self-reliant. Subsequent mentors in the trade—like Greenwich fireplace shop owners and “Totters” George and Billy—furthered his experience.
• Fisher fixated on fireplaces, calling them “the most important architectural feature,” blending obsession and economic opportunity.
• Despite academic setbacks (leaving university after a failed year), Fisher adapted, briefly working as a forklift driver at an antique warehouse, which allowed him to learn logistics and amass capital.

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From Runner to Proprietor: Establishing a Business

The Entrepreneurial Path & Identity Formation ([28:23]–[33:59])

• Mentors such as Ny Manozzi and Alessandro Stefanini helped him develop professionally, including buying a van and learning about the continental side of antiques.
• Initially resistant to the idea, Fisher opened his first shop, Core One, in 2001, moving from the identity of “a man with a van” to a business owner.
  • Quote: “I’m a man with a van. I don’t need a shop.” – Will Fisher ([31:00])
• Opening a shop allowed him to recognize and curate his own aesthetic—a blend of eclecticism and, later, a return to English country house design.

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Creativity, Reproduction, and Evolution

From Antiques to Reproduction ([34:03]–[39:16])

• Shopper demand and limited supply led Fisher to develop high-quality reproductions using a trusted network of craftspeople.
  • Quote: “Why can't we use these people that we know who are extraordinary?... Why should anything be good enough?” – Will Fisher ([34:03])
• He emphasizes long-term relationships and loyalty with makers and employees as central to Jamb’s ethos.
• The business expanded into multifaceted disciplines: fireplaces, lighting, furniture—all tied to a consistent, classic yet innovative aesthetic.

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Market Shifts & Digital Disruption

Changing Business Models & The Role of Online Marketplaces ([40:24]–[54:05])

• Fisher argues that while “pedestrian antiques fell off a cliff,” high-quality, well-designed pieces are still in demand.
• Investment in the creative side and workshops was often economically risky, but ultimately yielded growth and satisfaction.
• Jamb employs about 65 people, with many more in its extended network.
• Digital disruption—especially via platforms like First Dibs and Live Auctioneers—has radically changed the marketplace, both expanding global competition and eroding traditional trade routes and human relationships.
  • Quote: “The world has become a vast casino...nothing is a secret anymore or very rarely.” – Will Fisher ([51:03])
• Fisher maintains a rule that he (or trusted associates) must see any antique in person before purchase, questioning the wisdom of remote buying.
  • Quote: “If I’m going on a dating site, I’m not going to put a picture of myself up that looks like I’ve got a wonky nose.... I can’t understand people who buy things they haven’t seen.” ([49:56])

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Collaboration, Charlotte, and Modern Jamb

The Entry of Charlotte Freemantle ([44:21]–[47:13])

• Meeting Charlotte was a profound personal and professional transition. She brought clarity, organization, and a sophisticated visual sensibility.
  • Quote: “It was an extraordinary moment to have somebody—she almost got me more than I got myself.” – Will Fisher ([44:35])
• Charlotte professionalized and focused the business, elevating its vision and ending prior chaos.

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The Future of Connoisseurship & Antique Knowledge

Knowledge, Apprenticeship, and Threats to the Trade ([55:22]–[58:35])

• Fisher expresses concern about diminishing expertise as major institutions close, lamenting the loss of clear pathways for young people into the trade.
  • Quote: “We don’t take away that route into this magical world that people no longer know....” – Will Fisher ([57:27])
• However, he acknowledges hope: Instagram, TikTok, and other platforms showcase a vibrant new generation of dealers, keeping aesthetics and interest alive.

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The State of the Market, Pimlico Road, and Evolving Tastes

Adaptation & Optimism ([61:34]–[65:17])

• The legacy of Pimlico Road, once buzzing with eccentric figures, now operates in a “broader church,” with both traditionalists and new creative voices shaping the market.
• Fisher and Scully discuss the looming generational wealth transfer and the open question of where future tastes and wealth will flow.
• Strong moments, like the Robert Kime sale, demonstrate enduring demand for integrity and authenticity in antiques.
  • Quote: “When you place in the market something that has authenticity...the desire for it is huge.” – Will Fisher ([64:02])

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the passion for country houses:
  “How can I have this beauty? How can I live with this beauty? But also, how can I understand this beauty?...It's like trying to learn a language.” ([04:59])
• On Christie's early days:
  “I wasn’t short on passion or determination to sort of make this work.” ([08:16])
• On entrepreneurial independence:
  “Buying something for £80 and selling it for £160—it was just magical.” ([18:04])
• On the rise of reproduction:
  “Why should anything be good enough? Why isn’t it that when you walk in a room, why should it sit out and be clearly uncomfortable in its space?” ([34:03])
• On business ethos:
  “Most people I work with today, I’ve worked with for 25 years. Those relationships, those understandings...mean everything to me.” ([36:53])
• On the digital revolution:
  “The world has become a vast casino...all the runners, all the Warner Dailys...they’re gone.” ([51:03])
• On team and scale:
  “So all told, we have 65 people...For years it felt like terror...Because also psychologically, I'm kind of still the man with the van.” ([41:50])
• On the importance of learning:
  “It's years and years and years of handling, of buying, of selling, of owning, of upgrading.... The journey to understand it, it's still not complete.” ([57:27], [57:25])
• On the changing market:
  “Who wouldn't want that change in that evolvement? Pimlico Road still retains its huge integrity as a destination.” ([62:03])

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [02:49] – Fisher’s childhood and roots in design
• [05:50] – Early passion for antiques, Christie's letter
• [08:48] – Influence of Warner Daly and practical learning
• [18:03] – First business deal; thrill of buying/selling
• [25:29] – Working as a forklift driver; building capital
• [31:00] – Opening the first shop, Core One, and identity shift
• [34:03] – Transitioning to reproduction, business growth
• [39:16] – Business model; the value of diversification
• [44:21] – Meeting and working with Charlotte; professionalization
• [49:56] – The impact of online marketplaces
• [55:22] – Concerns about loss of knowledge; hopes for next gen
• [61:34] – Discussion of Pimlico Road, changing industry
• [64:02] – Discussion around generational wealth and legacy auctions

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Conclusion

This episode is a rich portrait of a life devoted to design, entrepreneurship, and connoisseurship in the tradition of English country houses. Will Fisher’s narrative offers insights into resilience, adaptation, and creativity, illuminating how deeply personal history and professional success are intertwined. His reflections underscore both challenges and promise for the future of the antiques and design trade—rooted in knowledge, community, and a perennial love for beautiful things.

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Transcript

[Dennis Scully]

This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is will Fisher of Jam, a unique British company that offers everything from 17th century fireplaces to modern day reproduction furniture. Will himself fell in love with antiques at a young age. Working at Christie's as a teenage, he built up JAM piece by piece, starting as a man with a van, solo dealer, growing his trade and eventually getting into the reproduction business. Today, alongside his wife and business partner Charlotte Freemantle, Will is a leading figure in the British design establishment. I spoke with Will about why he doesn't rely on online listings to buy antiques, his hopes for the next generation of connoisseurs, and why no matter how much JAM has grown, he still thinks of himself as a man with a van. This podcast is sponsored by Hector Finch Lighting. For more than 30 years, Hector Finch has been making British manufactured decorative lighting for the design community worldwide. The brand is known for clean lines, a less is more philosophy and impeccable craftsmanship. Working with the finest European techniques and materials, mouth blown glass, hand thrown ceramics and alabaster, Hector Finch produces high specification lighting beloved by designers around the globe. Hector Finch is available in all 50 states and is represented in all major North American markets and their dedicated team is on hand to discuss customizations and and deliver a friendly personal service tailored to the needs of designers. Visit hectorfinch.com and follow Hector Finch Lighting on Instagram. This podcast is sponsored by laloy. This month laloy is hosting a slate of Can't Miss Design events at High Point Market, including a book signing for Amy Astley, Editor in Chief of Architectural Digest, and a keynote panel moderated by House Beautiful's Joe Salz with laloi collaborators Leanne Ford, Amber Lewis Lewis, Anna Bond, Julia Marcum and Jean Stouffer. Learn [e-mail] that's L O L O I rugs.com and follow Laloy Ruggs on Instagram and TikTok. And now on with the show.

[Interviewer]

So tell me about your. Tell me about your father and tell me about where you grew up.

[Will Fisher]

So I grew up in Lewisham. My father was an artist, my mother was a teacher. So it was kind of sort of two brothers. I've got a brother nine years younger and a brother two years older. Super happy childhood, super fun childhood. But my parents weren't from sort of money. So you know, our holidays were joyous, fantastic. But under canvas it wasn't a sort of you Know, exotic world, it wasn't. But it was a brilliant world. And I think they really taught me strong values that have helped me in business. You know, they weren't profligate. They only spent what they had. I'm making them sound incredibly dull. They were kind of. They were incredible. They were. Just for the record, mom dead, they were anything other than dull. There was something in me that was different from them. And there was this kind of kernel of something. And I think they must have seen that because I sort of dragged them to English country houses and, you know, when we'd go on back to Coventry, we'd go to. I'd insist that we went to Ragley hall, which was a sort of extraordinary stately home near my grandmother's. And it was just overwhelming, really. It was sort of sensory overload that I got through being in these environments and it lit something in me. But I didn't fully understand what it was at that time.

[Interviewer]

And your parents couldn't. Couldn't really understand either. I'm imagining when you were so young, what was really going on.

[Will Fisher]

I think that age. I mean, maybe it was the beginnings of being slightly. I hate to say it, but precocious child. I mean, when I look back, I slightly cringe, you know, and think, oh, my God, what. What was I like? You know, Lord Fauntleroy from Lewisham, strutting around English country houses with huge anxiety on, will I ever own one of these? I mean, it really was like a sort of. That was.

[Interviewer]

What was running through you?

[Will Fisher]

That was running through my head. It's like, how. How can I have this beauty? How can I live with this beauty? But also, how can I understand this beauty? I use the expression a lot, but for me, it's like trying to learn a language. And it's there. It's like sitting in Italy and listening to this melodic, beautiful sounds around you and the interaction and desperate to fully. You can see that it's beautiful, but desperate to fully understand the communication. And I think that was it for me. I mean, standing in the Gibbs, the great big pink hall with the chimney pieces, and being in that world and just desperate to sort of understand and be a part of it. And that was from a very young age. I mean, again, I was a child.

[Interviewer]

There's this tale of you at. I think it was 10 years of age, reaching out to Christie's auction house and saying you wanted to come work there.

[Will Fisher]

Yeah, I had. Yeah. I wrote to Paul Bill Brooks, who's the chairman of Chris's. Literally, I was by then I was probably about 11, okay. And basically asking him, you know, I wanted to come and work for Christie's. And to my absolute surprise, back came this letter sort of inviting me for lunch with the board of directors.

[Interviewer]

For lunch with the board.

[Will Fisher]

And I was like, oh, my God, you know, there was a bit of, oh my God, what have I done? You know.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Will Fisher]

And I remember being taken up there by my father and you know, and take it very. I was very sort of earnest and serious about it all, you know, ready for and being shown the sort of around and sitting down with the board and all of them sort of, you can imagine, mildly amused and talking to me in a sort of very. Asking me, you know, what my future plans were. I remember after lunch, Bill Brooks handing over everyone still. It'd been 70 something, 19, 70 something, handing me this gargantuan cigar as they're all unwrapping cigars. I looked him horrified, but almost, I have to say, it wasn't until I left afterwards and had the epiphany that he was obviously not going to offer me.

[Interviewer]

He was just having fun.

[Will Fisher]

He was just having fun. I thought, oh, I better not, you know. And when we left, he said, you know, when you're 16, if you still have the passion, you still write to me and I will give you a job, you know, in the summer, three month recess. And he did that. He was good to his word. And I worked there for three years in a row. And for me, Christie's, when I worked there, you know, I was Obviously, I was 16, I was a super humble porter. But people like Ed Dolman was there, who later became the sort of big cheese, pretty much of the whole outfit and been working alongside him, Nick McElhatton, who later became chairman. So in many, many later, I didn't, you know, when I was. Have an auction, then sell everything that we owned. I already knew these people and they were known to me and I was known to them. Put it this way, they knew from, from the sort of stories of Chris. I wasn't short on passion or determination to sort of make this work well.

[Interviewer]

And we can talk about this, but I mean, I think part of what was also going on for you when you were young is that you knew that school wasn't an easy environment for you. Should we say that?

[Will Fisher]

School was always a struggle for me. I mean, I'm of a pre adhd. I was diagnosed as dyslexic, but literally got a diagnosis and that was it.

[Interviewer]

And good luck with that. Yeah, you Definitely have that and we wish you well.

[Will Fisher]

And then sort of told I was hyperactive. Yeah. So it was just sort of, you know, those two worlds. And as we all know, hyperactivity and dyslexia, it's not a great. It's not a great combination really. And one day when I think I would have been. I think I was about 8 or 9, new child came to the school and it was a chap called Sam Arrowsmith who sort of literally, it's Sam, God bless his soul. He was sort of the most charismatic of individuals. But at that age he always slightly looked like he'd been dragged through a bush backwards. And I got invited back on a play date to his house and suddenly we arrived at just the most magical, magical house that I'd ever seen in my life. And it was a sort of really. It had been a whole house cut in half. But even the half remaining was so significant. It's more than you could handle. And it was set in London within an acre nearly of. Of. Of walled garden. But inside was as if a bomb went off in my head. It was so beautiful. It was all in a way that I'd been trying to find and understand was located in this house. And my eyes were everywhere and my heart racing and it's like not only was this kid kind of amazing, but he lived in this extraordinary, extraordinary house. And the house belonged to Warner Daly. Warner Daly was his stepfather. And Rose Daly. And Rose was a phenomenally talented. I don't want to say decorate. She wants really. She was a restorer, but complex things like 17th century leather screens. And she was a master with color and a master with. With surface and distressing. And Warner was just a force of nature. He was not short on eccentricity and he loved. He had this fascination for sort of British culture class. We'd spend a lot of time sort of dressing up in different. We'd go to Eton. I went to a sort of normal state school and we go to Eton and we go and buy at their. They'd have their boot fair and all the kids would sell their handmade shoes, suits. So we'd go and literally get dressed to the night in all these rich kids clothes and sort of head out back to the world, you know, sort of really feeling full of ourselves. But Warner, Warner had a kind of irreverence, an infectious excitement and a desire to teach anyone who wanted to learn. So we had. One of the clubs we had was the Kippen Rough Club. So it was all about sleeping on the streets. Cause he'd slept on the streets for years.

[Interviewer]

And this was the training thing, this was the training.

[Will Fisher]

We had one summer where for the whole summer he gave us shovels and in that beautiful garden he got us to dig trenches. And can you imagine Rose, how she must have been going mad? And we dug six foot trenches all the way through and built wooden structures above. And on the last day went down in his own 2cv6 van. It's like, come on everybody, we gotta get down the fruit market. And we're like, why are we going to the fruit market? And we went to the fruit market and he got all the rotten fruit and shoved it in his car. I mean, the car absolutely stank. And we went back and this was in this sort of baking hot summer and we had an epic fruit fight.

[Interviewer]

You had a war with all the rotten fruit?

[Will Fisher]

Yeah, a war with all the rotten fruit. So it was sort of both forever exciting to be around him, but then there was the whole depth of the house and how layered and beautiful and eclectic and it's interesting how individual collecting is and the things he was sort of arms and armor that were a sort of big part of his collection. Taxidermy that I love. Far more eclectic than me. I'm a very sort of singular, esoteric, very English and Irish furniture dealer. He had a lot of sort of beautiful continental furniture and I can just remember that sort of visceral feeling of standing in the drawing room on my own in absolute quiet whilst no one was there, just in awe of the beauty of it.

[Interviewer]

And he. And he could see that you reacted that way. I mean, he could see you were excited about this world.

[Will Fisher]

He could see that I was driven mad by it.

[Interviewer]

I mean, and that you were a highly special child, problem child.

[Will Fisher]

But what was it he would literally, he'd include. So then it would be guys. And it was open to everyone who's going to get up at 5 in the morning and come to the market. And we'd get up at 5 in the morning and have our torches and all go down and all be looking for treasure, you know, and it was kind of amazing. He'd educate, this is this, this is that. And then eventually Sam and I ended up having our own market store in Greenwich and we used to buy things like old flintlock pistols and bits of this and bits of that, bits of chain mail, bits anything, bits of furniture. And he'd dump us down that five in the morning and then he'd sort of come back with a bacon sandwich at whatever time it was and See how we were getting on. And I loved the economics of it as well. You know, I really got it. I loved. So did Sam. And we'd deal in old money, so we'd pre decimalize money, so we'd sort of in shillings and pence and people loved all that sort of stuff. Anyway, one day he came back with his bacon sandwich and there we were with the council being loaded into the back of a truck for being under charge of being taken into sort of child custody. I think it's all these things in a way that build up that whole. This magical world. But the difference he made is he turned it from an academic study into something that I realized could be vocational and could be something that could be the rest of my life. He also took me in, so in the summer holidays, he was a runner. So basically, you know, we're talking about the new world of the Internet. In those days, a runner was the man, you had your car, man or woman, and you were the artery of the business to buy something, sell something. So we would go again, leaving early in the morning, load the car, the gunnels on the roof rack with things, and we'd head up into town and we'd go and buy and sell and trade everything. And he cut me in deals. Do you want to buy this with me? You know, it's kind of so fun and inclusive and, you know, but also, not only was I learning, but I was learning about our industry. I was learning about the Pimlico Road, I was learning about Bond Street, I was learning about South Ken and Kensington and all these different parts of the world, and putting together in my mind the map of the whole geography of the antique trade, which I could use years later. So he really did. He built me an absolute blueprint and showed me how and what to do. I mean, and the irony of it is, in many ways, although I still think of myself as a man with a van, you know, I'm quite a simplistic character, you know, the buying and selling of trade. I enjoy that. I enjoy the honesty of it. I enjoy the. The rush of having something and then passing it on and looking for something new. It's just never really left me. It's interesting, the different people and what they bring to you, because I've been. I think my life has been blessed and my life has been made by the people that have touched my life and what they've given me. And each set of people who've come in have given me a totally different skill set or a totally different perspective or A totally different passion for something else. But I remember the deal, the first deal, when I was on my own, not working for anyone, totally as an independent. And I was in the then, as a friend of mine used to joke, guy called Conrad Butlin used to call the van Rouge, the red van, and buying something for £80 and selling it for 160. And it was just magical.

[Interviewer]

Greatest feeling in the world.

[Will Fisher]

Yeah. Greatest feeling in the world, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay. So all of this leads to, you see, a path, as you were just saying. Warner gave you this incredible blueprint for what a business could be. How did you take the steps to ultimately start to really get into the business? And we'll talk about you getting to.

[Dennis Scully]

Pimlico Road and all of that.

[Interviewer]

But even before that, so it started.

[Will Fisher]

With other little jobs. So there was a sort of catastrophic and calamitous happening, in a way, with Warner, and Rose got divorced. And that was so seismically sad and tragic at the time and so unseen for me. But it also meant suddenly that access to Warner with his new wife just. It was gone. Oh, okay. So it was suddenly there I was Annie the orphan, right. Of the antique world. So suddenly Warner was out of the equation. And by that point, I was sort of.

[Dennis Scully]

And how old were you?

[Will Fisher]

I think I probably would have been about 15. So I hadn't quite yet started working at Christie's, but luckily, in a way, I'd written to Christie's and had that set up as a. As a next venture. And I just didn't feel it was appropriate to see him or could see him in a way.

[Dennis Scully]

Okay.

[Will Fisher]

So I then got other jobs, but it was. He was a brickist and it was a far place shop in Greenwich. And that was it. I started to buy and sell and again there, all for him. I met people who'd then be huge figures in my life in years to come. There were two extraordinary runners. They call themselves Totters, George and Billy, who were two big Cockney guys. And they came knocking on the door. I'm Tiny George the lion was like six foot, God knows what, and Billy was six foot tall. Hello, son. Where's the governor? Then I'm like, I'm. I'm the governor. And they literally fell about laughing on the floor. And I was, you know, 16 years of age. They're like, we want to speak the organ grinder, not his monkey. Go on, boy, get the governor. And I was like, no, no, I am the governor. Anyway, they drove off thinking, oh, we're done with this, right? Anyway, three days later, they Came back with a van of the same goods and I ended up buying the entire van off them. But there I really. So there I learned how to buy and sell again, talking about individuals and the esoteric nature of our passion. For me, it was always fireplaces. And before working with him, you know, Warner would buy a fireplace, he'd sell it to me and then I'd sell it through the local newspaper. You know, I'd restore it, sell it through the local newspaper. They just absolutely. It was an obsession. There's something about it that. It's not just that it's the most important architectural feature, I think, for me also is about the sort of. The smell, the allure of it, the whole. You know, it's kind of magical. So I then, by miracle, I got into university and I got into university to read History of Art. I did my A levels. They went spectacularly wrong. But I'd had such a lucky interview at Manchester. And so on a kind of default, I went to Manchester University with big ideas that I'd start seeing who was trading what. I'd buy and sell this. I'd do that. None of it happened. The wheels came off. I just immediately left untethered. I think I had four hours of coursework a week and I just went wild, basically. And it was one of those moments in my life of the sort of extremists of the greatest joy and the greatest pain. I met more kindred spirits in that time than I'd ever done. So it opened up another world to me, but it also broke me because I realized I couldn't operate on the same level as other people in terms of concentration, in terms of being. At this point, my wheels were spinning and left to my own devices and left with nothing to actually really get my teeth into, I'd go into the library and literally, it was like a panic attack, you know, trying to navigate it, trying to work out what to do. It was the same feeling, in a strange way, of. It's a similar anxiety to being in an English country house, except there was no joy, there was no excitement and thrill and no. I wanted to learn.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Will Fisher]

I simply didn't know how to.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Will Fisher]

And it meant so much to my mother that her boys should go to university, because for her, an education was something that you could never have removed from you. Yeah. And yet there I was. I'd been given the opportunity and I just couldn't take it. And I had a catastrophic end of year where basically I was ungraded in every single exam. And I kind of left before I was pushed, I suppose. And I remember that horror, terror of going back to my mother, father and the horror of having to tell my mother. And funnily enough, I chose to tell my father first. And my dad was amazing. He said, darling, you have to lead your life, not our life, we prescribe to you. And I told my mum and she was like understandably so upset as I would be if it was one of my childhood children and it was one of the top universities in England. And then my luck changed again. And this is the amazing thing about life. You never know when the smallest or something can be the moment that's going to be. You're in. And I became a forklift truck driver at an antique warehouse in Bermondsey. And it was amazing. I was there, I've could get rid of my energy. I was the man ascribed to unloading, loading the trucks. But they also gave me a little bay in the corner where they said, look, you can buy and sell your own goods from this corner. I was like, this is great. So suddenly I had no overhead, I had a salary, had a forklift truck which trust me with my, if you've seen me drive, I don't know how.

[Interviewer]

This is also they entrusted you with forklift.

[Will Fisher]

But the crazy thing, the accidents I had on that forklift truck, the crazy thing, this is the 80s, we weren't even sent off for a test. I drove that thing for about four or five years and again I was off. The wheels had traction, right. It was a very vibrant time in the antique business. But also I had a commercial advantage because I was the first one into every truck with my forklift, unloading it so I could. How much is that? How much is that? So even if I didn't buy it, I was learning what things were, how much they were and suddenly I could buy and sell and trade and build up the capital because obviously I depleted my capital at the university and slowly build the sort of, the money I needed to sort of set up on my own one day. And that's what you did and that's what I did. And it was, all of it was brilliant. When I look back, you know, the days of the Warner era, the 70s, the 80s, they were different. You've no idea the energy in the business. Then Americans would fly in and they'd have two 40 foot arctics waiting for them in Scotland and they would drive all the way from Scotland down through England, sometimes buying entire shops and putting them on the truck and moving on to the next one. You Know, the business was a light with energy. You know, now is a much harder time to make it, to get into this business, you know, and to make a living.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah. We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Leloy. Just this month, Laloy announced their newest collaboration with renowned interior designer Leanne Ford. Plus all new seasons of home textiles from Amber Lewis and Chris Loves Julia. You'll want to see all those online or in person and you can at High Point Market. Learn more and make your High Point appointment@laloy rugs.com that's l-o L-O-I rugs.com and don't forget to follow laloyloyrugs on Instagram and TikTok. And now back to the show.

[Interviewer]

So let's talk about you having this great experience. Miraculously, the forklift driver position puts you back on the right track. Yeah, right, yeah. And you get on a path to eventually building some capital, as you were describing, and being able to, to have your own shop and, and pursue a lot of different businesses which, which we'll get into.

[Will Fisher]

I think where I was very lucky is there was a particular guy, Ny Manozzi, another mentor, and he and a guy called Alessandro Stefanini and Cheste Delana. They wanted. When I, when I set up on my own, they kind of made me their man in London and they bought me this van. And whenever they turn up in the uk, I'd be there and sort of driving them around. That was another learning curve. I went from being their driver to suddenly, after the year, I'd saved up the money to pay them the van back. And they also showed me this extraordinary world that I wasn't a part of. Sort of dining at San Lorenzo, sort of wonderful restaurants that my parents and I that we never sort of went to. And I remember one evening in San Lorenzo's and we're sitting around and I said, guys, I've got something for you. And they're like, what's that? And I put an envelope on the table and it was all the money for the van. And they burst out laughing. They thought it was hilarious and, and they'd never expected me to pay them back, but it totally changed our relationship. And suddenly, instead of me being the driver, I was included in deals. I was trusted in this, I was trusted in that. And Naimanotti, who became probably one of my closest friends ever, what he taught me about marble and this whole other side of the antique business that I never would have had access through, through not having an Italian involved in my life. It was amazing. So I'd sort of gone off on a path very much of being a runner. So I was buying, selling, buying, selling, and I really hadn't formed an idea of the identity I'd created for myself. And then I started. I did three antique fairs at the antique show, at the Decorative Fair. One was amazing, one was a spectacular disaster, and one was okay. And I thought, do you know what I mean? This is a lot of work. Anyway, when I was having a coffee load of dealers standing around and they're like, oh. I said, what are you talking about? They said, oh, there's this big building we're going to take on and someone's just let us down and we need somebody to take the space. I was like, oh, they're like, hang on a minute, why don't you take it? I was like, no, I don't want. I don't want a shot. I'm a runner. I don't.

[Interviewer]

I'm a man with a van.

[Will Fisher]

I'm a man with a van. I don't. I don't. I don't need it. No, no. Anyway, suddenly it was like, well, you really should have this shop. And it was in a kind of industrial building off the Fulham Road. And I was like, maybe I should have this. Maybe it is time now. Because the world was starting to change. The whole running world was starting to change, and I needed the next journey, really. So I ended up in 2001, we opened a shop and it was called Core One. But it kind of worked. And suddenly instead of owning these things sort of in. In isolation, I was putting things together and realizing that actually without me knowing, I'd evolved my own style and my own trade of dealing that almost had been unbeknownst to me, obviously, my apartment where I lived and the things I loved, but not in terms of putting together an identity. And that identity felt very strong. It felt very powerful and very enjoyable.

[Interviewer]

And what was it? So what did you discover was your identity and all of that?

[Will Fisher]

I suppose at the time it was a sort of very much surface related, but it was, it was an edge. It was a slightly different edge to what we do now. It was a slightly broader church. And I think it was a really funny moment in history because it was more eclectic to how we are now. You know, there were sort of some things of mid century, there were some things of sort of, you know, anything that we perceive to be of interest and anything that sort of gave. That excited me. Really. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

And it was much Broader than what you were expecting?

[Will Fisher]

It was much broader. Because after that, really the journey really became focused on the English country house. And it was a sort of return. It's almost as if I'd slightly broken from the road and there were things that were of interest, mid century things and different. But actually my heart was yearning to go back from where I'd come, if that makes sense. And that's kind of where I returned, you know, and where I've never left, really. I suppose what it is, it's finding things and objects that have the integrity of design, of classicism, but invented through a modern eye. So not super modern. Extraordinary quality of manufacture, extraordinary materials, you know, things that have a fundamental sort of integrity to them, I suppose.

[Interviewer]

So the shop, to your surprise, and it sounds like everyone else's surprise, actually.

[Will Fisher]

Does pretty well, the shop did really well. I had found myself at that point on more and more planes, doing more and more miles, finding less and less things, and also had built together a sort of collection of extraordinary people around me over the years of people who are able to make people who were creatives. And it started to be a time when suddenly I kind of wanted to be a creative myself, I suppose. And people were coming in, we had phenomenal plants and they'd look at something and it would be something on its own, a singular item. And they just have you got two of these, you've got three of these. And they'd be like, no, sorry, we haven't says no. And I was like, well, why haven't we? And why can't we do this and make this? And it was a time when reproduction was kind of a really ugly word in a way, and almost representative of a sort of pedestrianism. And it started to occur to me, why can't we use these people that we know who are extraordinary things? And why can't we, if we have the things in our hands, try and replicate them and make something of equal integrity and equal quality without compromise? Why does it have to be this way? That that's what it is and it's good enough. Why should anything be good enough? And why isn't it that when you walk in a room, why should it sit out and be clearly uncomfortable in its space? So we set about trying to make things that would sit seamlessly into our environments. And we achieved, took years and years. It was a slow process. I traveled the world, I set up a whole sort of supply chain of different people. And this is the other thing, I think for us as a business, one of the Things I'm kind of proudest of is loyalty. Most people I work with today I've worked with for 25 years. And those relationships, those understandings, those building of other people's businesses along with your own, that kind of means everything to me. You know, we're not flitting from here to there or looking for this or doing for that. You know, we want to bed down, we want to go on journeys with people, and we want to build relationships with people. And years ago, I worked for somebody who. I remember, the minute they left their business, they were gone. It's like, you're banished. Thou shalt not return. You know, all this sort of thing. We've never had that policy. So even in our workshops now, we have highly, highly skilled guys. You know, when they go off, we often become 90% of their business. And it creates the network and it keeps it growing. And it's, it's, it's. It's a bonus, not a. Why would you invest in somebody for years and get along with them fantastically and not then subsequently want to work for them? It just makes no sense to me whatsoever. So we went from sort of copying things, you know, things that we thought were unique, things that we knew we'd never find again. And now it's evolved, really. It's a very different animal now. My great, great joy, and as much as antique dealing is finding a fragment of something or an element or something that's a third, and there's two thirds missing and trying to reimagine and repurpose what it would have looked like. And that gives me immeasurable pleasure. And I've got a team of people who are just superb. I'm also. I'd like to think maybe I'm in denial, not some sort of despot. I love the concept that the greatest idea should win the day. When we're doing photo shoots, it's even, you know, sometimes the best ideas come from the people who want, you know, you might ask a van driver, somebody moving something, what do they think of da da da da da. They could come up with the best answer you could ever have imagined. And that excites me.

[Interviewer]

Well. And let's describe for listeners who might not be familiar. So you're talking about all of these reproductions. Suddenly the business becomes this lighting business, this furniture business. I mean, your love of fireplaces and mantles and all of that reproduction is there. Suddenly that becomes a huge part of the business.

[Will Fisher]

It's a very unique offering in a way, because I think we're probably the only business that exists in the world to work in all disciplines, you know, to have the. It used to be quite an old fashioned thing to have the fireplaces with, the lighting with. You know, if you think of Crowthers, you look at Pratt, you look at all the different sort of companies from the bygone era. But in today's world, no one really carried on the traditional. And for us it does give us an extraordinary sort of advantage that we are capable of, of working in so many different areas. You know, there are so many strings to our bow and yet it's not loose, it's not, you know, it's very tight, it's very disciplined, it's very skill based.

[Interviewer]

And was part of why the business became so important because as you were describing earlier, the antiques business was so transformed and as you've described is a much harder business today for a lot of different reasons.

[Will Fisher]

I think there's a misnomer in a way that antiques fell off a cliff, et cetera, et cetera, antiques. I think pedestrian antiques fell off a cliff. I think there's always been a market for good things and there will always be a market for good things. There's been a lot of change and one of those changes is the competitiveness, the cost of space or the size of things. You know, you have to make the economics work and for us, you know, to just be a pure antique dealer in a way. Is it possible? Yes, it's possible. But it's so much more fun to have this whole other world at your disposal. And I'd never have imagined that that product could give me the same sort of visceral feeling and pleasure that I get from an individual antique piece of furniture. And the crazy thing is when you look at it, if we'd done it to make money, it was kind of a disaster because really most of the money from the antique business went into investing into making the creative side and the workshops. So it's interesting. And yet over time now the workshops have become a bigger business than the antique business.

[Interviewer]

And how many people do you have working in the workshops and all of that?

[Will Fisher]

So all told, we have 65 people. Okay, but then that's not, you know, that doesn't account for people who we keep going the whole time outside of the business. So it's not a vast business, but it's for me, I mean, when we first got our building in, we're in now the tank factory, I used to walk in there and instead of be sort of full of joy and aghast because we have 300 antique mantels in there. We've got this 200 different models of lantern that we make. It's full to the gunnels. Then there's heaving with antique furniture. You'd think that would have brought me some joy. For years it felt like terror.

[Dennis Scully]

Why?

[Interviewer]

Because of the scale of it.

[Will Fisher]

Because of this. Because also psychologically, I'm kind of still the man with the van, right?

[Interviewer]

It all just seems so.

[Will Fisher]

And it's like, oh, my God, you know, and this is the thing. If you start doing something when you're 10 years old, you sort of, please, God, eventually end up somewhere, you know, and that's the one thing I've been, you know, to a certain extent, I'm a one trick pony. And I'm on this and I can't stop. Sometimes I ring my wonderful Elizabeth, who I work with, and she'll ring me and say, will you stop buying things? I said, I haven't bought anything. She's like, what? Said, you've just bought 75 things in the last five days. It's a machine, it's prolific.

[Interviewer]

But you always know that you're going to be able to sell these things. You've got clients all over the world. And I mean, is that part of what goes through your head when you're thinking about all of that?

[Will Fisher]

The funny thing is a bit like with the designing things. When we set out to design things, we never ever thought, what does the world need? And I don't mean that to sound arrogant, but it was like, what do we love, right? What do we think would be the most beautiful, the best thing? What excites us? Let's make one of those. And it's the same with the antique dealing, you know, there's no thought of, oh, hang on a minute. Have we got a client who needs an X, Y and Z? You know, things turn up when they turn up.

[Interviewer]

So I want to talk about Charlotte coming into the business and the transformation that happens there. And you can tell me how the two of you come. I mean, from what I understand, you met here in the States.

[Will Fisher]

That was without doubt, that was the most sort of seismic transition in everything in my life. You know, she came in, we met through a friend, and we got to Belazar, and Charlotte, as only Charlotte can be, was an hour late. We were hanging out with another friend of hers. I don't know how we knew that that was her friend or how we met up. And in the very crowded bar section, suddenly I turned round and Charlotte and I were inches from each other. And just her voice of, hi, I'm Charlotte. And it just was that moment when time stood still, and it was amazing. And she was working for Benison Fabrics. She wanted to come back to England and needed a job. We were like, great. When I got back, I said to Craig, my finance guy and who runs the business, and I said, I think I've met this incredible person. She could be extraordinary for the business. Anyway, so eventually we offered her a job, and she came back, and we had no money. We didn't even have a computer, really, because we were sort of chaotic. And Charlotte joined, and the funny thing was, we weren't an item. We worked together back to back for over a year before anything kind of happened. And it was an extraordinary moment to have somebody. She almost got me more than I got myself. And she understood the message of the business, of what needed to be conveyed deeper than myself. And she has a very sort of sophisticated visual eye. And we set about transforming how and what we should be. So when she joined, it just. It was rocket fuel, because not only that, she's a powerhouse. She was organized. She understood it. She ended the chaos.

[Interviewer]

That's the biggest thing, ending the chaos. I think that's really what she did. But also, as you say, helped to.

[Dennis Scully]

Clarify this vision of what Jam really.

[Interviewer]

Would become, because it is so unique.

[Dennis Scully]

The model that you've created.

[Will Fisher]

It did, and she really could see that. And I think sometimes you can be too deep within it to really be able to communicate it. And it's trying to convey that message across and hope that it resonates with people.

[Dennis Scully]

We're taking a quick break from. From the show to let you know about Hector Finch's role in this year's Kips Bay Decorator show house in New York. From September 30 through October 19, you can see their lighting installed in four different rooms, created in collaboration with designers throughout the house. While you're in town, stop by the R. Hughes showroom at the New York Design center to explore a wide range of fixtures from the Hector Finch collection. To register for Kips Bay, Visit, visit kipsbay decoratorshowhouse.org and to see the full collection online, head to hectorfinch.com and now back to the show and the American market.

[Interviewer]

We've been talking about this so much recently. The American market has this hunger for this English countryside. This whole everything that you are about is what the American market, market and is yearning for. And so it seems as though it's a great. Despite all of the changes that have taken place. And as you said, the pedestrian antique market going away. We talk about brown furniture all the time. Right. And how all of that didn't go away entirely, but it doesn't exist at the kind of scale. And you and I were talking even before we started recording about, we'd walk along 57th street or we'd walk along some of these areas in New York, and it would just be one antique store after another.

[Will Fisher]

Acres.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Interviewer]

And they're all gone.

[Dennis Scully]

And I don't know where all of that has gone and what are all.

[Interviewer]

Of the changes that led to that.

[Will Fisher]

I think the funny thing is, I think we're all scratching our heads trying to work that out because it has to be somewhere, I guess, or it.

[Interviewer]

Just that a whole generation who appreciated that that move moved on.

[Dennis Scully]

I don't, I don't know.

[Interviewer]

And I don't know how much the disruption of the online. And we were starting to talk about this earlier first dibs and, and, and live auctioneers and that whole group at atg, how much that has changed, this whole marketplace has that had a meaningful impact on your business? Is it.

[Will Fisher]

I think it's seismic. I mean, the only thing that I would say as a caveat is that if I'm going on a dating site, I'm not going to put a picture of myself up that looks like I've got a wonky nose that I've got. And my hair's falling out. The whole culture of Barbie ware. I can't understand people who buy things they haven't seen. And it's like the most dangerous thing you can do. And we have a rule in our business where anything that we buy has either been seen either by ourselves or someone we trust. And that's the sort of side of it that I don't get. In a way, it's high risk. But the world is gone. The world. All the runners, all the Warner dailies, all the people who the archer is of the business, all the buying and selling, all the human contact, all the reasons of why we got into this business and why we love this business, they're gone.

[Interviewer]

They're gone.

[Will Fisher]

But what it does do in terms of opportunity, if you imagine now the world has become a vast casino. And as you and I are sitting here at this moment, we are missing some extraordinary piece of furniture that is selling somewhere in the globe that two, three, four, five people will be fighting over and praying that what they've got is the thing they hope they've got. And I think for a Lot of people sort of super erudite in the works of art world and old masters. It probably creates vast opportunities, but it also ends the world of the sleeper. You know, they're not going to be uncatalogued, sitting in a corner. Nothing is a secret anymore or very rarely. But it also is quality of life. It's a nightmare because it's like, my God, you and I shouldn't be doing this. We should be trawling sites. You know, I have no interest in that, you know, and I have no idea what the numbers are like, but they must be vast. You know, those rooms are churning.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, well, and they are. And yet it seems as if, as we were talking about earlier, the online hasn't replaced all of that vast inventory that used to exist. So I still don't fully understand, but it seemed as if they were willing to rely on the relationship or the reputation of a dealer. To your point, that was supposed to be, I mean, first dibs was originally going to the Paris flea market and taking some pictures and saying here's some.

[Dennis Scully]

Things that I found, right.

[Interviewer]

And that was brilliant. And people trusted Michael Bruno in the beginning and then that was sort of built from there and now those businesses built on again, the reputation of the dealers, the reputation of the site and imagery and all of that. But it's.

[Will Fisher]

But the problem is because of the economy of scale, you know, the vetting process has to be lax. They have to allow more people on because they need to be doing the numbers. And I don't know how much of a model it is in a way that truly works, if I'm honest. It's different with auction houses because it's sort of, you know, it's a timed ad infinitum and it is what it is and you're selling what you're selling, you know, and it's. And it has revolutionized. I mean, you still need to get in your car and look at it is how you feel that you need to go 100%. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So has it changed what's available for you? Has it limited or has it. I mean, as you say, people can see everything now, people can find everything. Have they taken things away from you or altered what's out there for you?

[Will Fisher]

I think the funny thing in a way is how small the sort of of market is of erudite antique dealers looking for certain things. So it's a kind of small group of people blowing their brains out mixed with a few end of sort of high, you know, high functioning private individuals who are Looking as well. But no, I mean, it definitely, you know, it definitely creates more opportunity than it removes in so much as how many miles can. You know, it's the same adage we're talking about when I started to do reproduction. How many planes can I be on? How many, you know, sales can I drive to? You know, if in an afternoon you can have somebody view 500 auctions, well, then that has to be a massive advantage. But you need to be able to see it, right?

[Interviewer]

And you're not spending your time doing that.

[Will Fisher]

I'm not spending my time doing that.

[Interviewer]

You have nothing.

[Will Fisher]

Attention span that might end very, very badly. And I have to say that is the. The exact antithesis of why I got into this business. I don't want to be sitting still. I've done my days of sitting still. I need to get the wheel spinning.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So what do you want? What do you want to have happen with all of this?

[Will Fisher]

I'm very worried about the move away from decorative arts.

[Interviewer]

Tell me what you mean.

[Will Fisher]

Just that the sort of. The major players sticking to furniture, sticking to antiquities, sticking. If you think of things like, you know, we talked of Christie's South Kensington, that was an absolute hub and hive of extraordinary people with extraordinary knowledge. You know, people who'd spent their lives studying sewing machines, for example. You know, with institutions like that gone, you're slowly diminishing knowledge. And the problem is, you and I could probably go for an afternoon and we talked pretty well about different sets of trainers and what one's, what and how, whatever. And if we could manage to get our brains into it long enough, we could probably retain that information and we'd have learned what we needed to learn to come into the world of decorative arts. It's years and years and years of handling, of buying, of selling, of owning, of upgrading, of, you know, it's a journey. And this is what. You know, the thing that I suppose gives me angst is that we don't take away that route into this magical world that people no longer know. There's not a clear path of how to enter it and how to learn and how to understand. You know, my luck with Warner, with Nye, with others, and the people who've sort of helped and mentored me, but that was also backed up by these institutions of viewing, sales of viewing. I just hope that's not eroded.

[Interviewer]

Well, and whether consciously or not, you were apprenticing for years, right?

[Dennis Scully]

In various capacities.

[Will Fisher]

No, years and years.

[Interviewer]

Years and years.

[Will Fisher]

And it does. And I remember, you know, from the days of Being in the old knoll and standing and looking and being desperate to understand it. You know, that journey to understand it, it's still not complete. You know, it's a lifetime work to really understand. And we evolve over time, and the things that interest us evolve. And I don't know how much of that exists, if I'm truthful, although let's be positive. There are, you know, Instagram is also throwing up incredibly young, vibrant dealers trading strong, strong visual looks, strong understanding. Knowledge is out there. So. So you don't know where it's gonna pop up if you find a way, don't you? But what one doesn't want is the market too diminished that it can't have the Renaissance. And it does feel like there's a Renaissance at the moment of interest in our field.

[Interviewer]

Well, I think the next generation seems incredibly interested in, again, whether it's the decorative arts, whether it's design. They seem engaged on the subject, as you say, it might not be in the same way that we imagined early on. And many of the institutions, Christie's, Mason and Woods, doesn't have the same global presence that it did years ago, but maybe they're finding it in so many other ways. I mean, TikTok and Pinterest seemed to be awash in young people exploring these different. We were talking about them, their interest in Art Deco. That's surprising. But, but, but great if they're interested in that, great if they're interested in.

[Dennis Scully]

Tiles, great if they're. Yeah, right, all of that.

[Will Fisher]

I mean, but you're right in a way, because also, even, you know, my generous. We. We all put our own slant on it, and it is all through the. The contemporary vision or as we see it, you know, it doesn't. It's not going to go back to mason wood. I don't know what it'll be, but it's just such a wondrous world that I just can't see it being left to sunder. And I mean, I can't. And I think, you know, I think you're right. There are many. It's volume, really. Well, is there enough of it to keep it going? And is it. There were whole. You know, we're talking about having gone from a whole market of it, you know, trucks full of it.

[Interviewer]

Yes, well, and we talk about that with some of the great furniture markets, and they used to just be. I mean, or even some of the great shows. I mean, people used to come over to London for so many of the great shows.

[Will Fisher]

No, no, no. That is a Concern.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And I don't know if the. It's not profitable enough for enough businesses to be there, if there's not enough interest, if the people that have the money aren't interested in that. That area of pursuit anymore, or do we need to educate more, do we need to. I mean, that's the thing.

[Will Fisher]

I mean, that's in a nutshell, I suppose. It's the pathways, it's the journey to connoisseurship.

[Dennis Scully]

Exactly.

[Will Fisher]

Is really what I'm talking about. And how does one get and go on that journey? And what are the access points? And that's why, you know, we talked about South Kent. That was a sort of feeder, you know, but then you have got. They've gone in the smaller auction rooms suddenly taking up the slack. You know, if there's a vacuum, people fully, you know, fill in that space. I mean, I don't feel, you know, it doesn't feel like a dark, dismal moment. In fact, in a funny way, for us, I'd say we're finding more people with more interest.

[Interviewer]

Well, I mean, Pimlico Road depends on that. I mean, and I. When you and I were together and walking along Pimlico Road and you were talking about the glory days. Oh, so much. So much fun. When many more eccentric characters were just walking the streets. But, I mean, it still felt very vibrant and businesses seemed to be thriving there, but in a different way.

[Will Fisher]

Perhaps it's in a different way. It's interesting, you saying earlier. It's evolved. You know, we're talking about evolvement. We're talking about what, you know, we are there in the tradition of sort of the English country house furniture, but others have got equally valid aesthetic, you know, beautiful viewpoints that are there. And I think it's changed now in that it's a family of people creating craft, creating aesthetic. It may not be all entirely our aesthetic vision, but isn't that, in a way, a better outcome to have a broader church? I certainly feel now that Pimlico Road still retains its huge integrity as a destination. And I think Grosvenor Estates have done incredibly well. And there are people, you know, there are people like us. There's Soane, there's Chris Howe, there's. Who are sort of, you know, we're custodians of that old world, if you like, but also the others that bring the new and changed version, you know, it's just equally as valid and more so. Who wouldn't want that change in that evolvement? No.

[Interviewer]

And it all has to evolve. But as you were saying earlier, this path to connoisseurship, what is going to keep. We know that there's this massive wealth transferral that is about to happen in our country, in your country. This next generation is going to come into unimaginable sums of money in the next 10, 15 years. And where will it go? And will they be acquiring antiques? Will they be acquiring mantles piece reproductions, or will it go in a completely different direction?

[Will Fisher]

It's very hard to say. The only thing I would say to that is when you look back at the Robert Kind sale, for example, and you place in the market something that has authenticity, has integrity, there is a sort of innate way that people have of sort of understanding that they've stumbled on something special. And the sort of veracity, the desire for it is huge. But it is. It's about trying to put in front of people so they can understand it. Yeah. You know, and I think Drewitt's did an incredible job in presenting that cell. Incredible job. And it just shows how strong demand is.

[Dennis Scully]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

And that there is such an interest for that. And people know that that was something worth showing up, up for and owning it. It was a moment in time. It was a historic moment.

[Will Fisher]

It was a really historic moment. Yeah, but showing you like that firework. Right. You know, people are there.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Will Fisher]

It's magical. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So to your point about everyone showing up in person for an auction?

[Will Fisher]

Yeah. No, no, no. Well, there. I mean, my God, who didn't show up?

[Interviewer]

Yeah. It's pretty extraordinary. Well, I mean, it's remarkable how good business is these days in this area. Despite all of the challenges Britain is experiencing, such challenges, America is undergoing such a transition. We're confused about all of it, to be honest. But it's extraordinary. We have to give up this room. So, sadly, will we have to wrap up this conversation?

[Will Fisher]

Oh, my God.

[Dennis Scully]

But I know, I know.

[Interviewer]

And there was so much. There was so much more to discuss. But I'm thrilled that we got to spend this time and I'm so grateful to you.

[Will Fisher]

My pleasure.

[Dennis Scully]

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us [e-mail] where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings, and join our BoH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a [e-mail] if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicholaus and ed edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you next week.