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Business of Home Podcast
Masterpieces in wood: The enchanting world of Féau Boiseries
00:47:15
Third-generation owner Guillaume Féau shares the story of his company, one of the world's most celebrated sources for decorative paneling.
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- [00:04]
Dennis Scully
This is business of home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking to leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is Guillaume Thayot of the French workshop Feau Voiserie. With a history stretching back to 1875, Theo Boiserie is internationally recognized for its expertise in decorative wood paneling. Whether it's an antique from the time of Napoleon or a meticulously crafted reproduction. In his showroom in the center of Paris, I spoke with Guillaume about why French artisanship is so prized, the intriguing international market for antique paneling, and why he's bringing Feuille Boiserie to New York City. This podcast is sponsored by Ernesta, your destination for designer quality custom size rugs with a curated assortment of timeless colors, patterns and textures. Ernesta will deliver the right size rug in the style your client wants in only two to four weeks. And with Ernesta's exclusive trade membership benefits, you can get dedicated support, free unlimited samples and special discounts to help you achieve your clients design goals. To join Ernesta's trade program, visit ernesta.com boh this podcast is also sponsored by Ethan Allen. Ethan Allen is known for its classic good looks and reputation for quality. But did you know that most every piece of furniture is customizable? Designers can choose from hundreds of fabrics, an array of leathers, more than a dozen wood finishes, and most upholstery pieces can be made with contrast welts, dual fabrics, nail head trims, and so much more. Design something one of a kind and Ethan Allen will bring it to life. To join their trade program, go to ethanalan.com trade and now on with the show.
- [02:18]
Guillaume Thayot
Guillaume, let's set things up for the listener. First, let's describe for people exactly where we are right now. Well, I mean right now we're in your magical office, which is, well, you.
- [02:34]
Unnamed Guest
Describe it, but it's a cabinet of curiosity. Actually it's the original office of the founder of the company. We built that in 1885 and it's an architect office and I transformed that in a curiosity cabinet full of small architectural details, pieces of marble, bronze fragments, paneling fragments, drawings, model of home, archaeological pieces, shelf.
- [03:08]
Guillaume Thayot
And tell me what FAO is today, what it was and how long have you been in this space?
- [03:17]
Unnamed Guest
So FIO Brasserie is a company who do wood paneling for big interior designer and architect. So our main business is to build beautiful French woodworking, sometime English, sometime Italian, but a lot of French beautiful carpentry using some beautiful input from the. From the 17th century to the 1970s. And we also make new creation. But we have the largest inventory of beautiful iconic room from the best designer from the last 300 years. Our motto is to collect the best pieces from the best designer and architect. And so you are here in the candy shop for designer. I love this kind of expression. I know it's a little bit crazy, but it's very important because from small details of a nice wood paneling from the past, you can recreate something very modern by using new technique, multiply one details having a modern finishing, playing with a new color and bring with a beautiful different setting of modern art, contemporary art, modern furnitures could create something very unique. We are working in an extremely high quality world.
- [04:48]
Guillaume Thayot
Yes, a rarefied world a little bit.
- [04:51]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, yes, rarefied, but a very successful world. Now we are working all around the world, but the US is one of our biggest market. But we have about 35 projects going on from the West Coast, America to Australia, including Japan, but also Hong Kong, Bangkok, Brunei, all around the world.
- [05:14]
Guillaume Thayot
So you can come here, as you were just describing, you can come here. You can see what Napoleon's architect did.
- [05:23]
Unnamed Guest
And we have some fragment of Napoleon's office. So we different place of Napoleon. So from Boarneux, from another place. And we have the chance to own these fragments. So we can recreate new things from that. And that's what we love to do. Or we can recreate the exact replica of that also.
- [05:46]
Guillaume Thayot
So people have that option so they can be inspired by the rulemann that they see here, for example.
- [05:52]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, exactly. And we can play with the designer and trying to build together something that could be like the future old man style of the 21st century. That's something we love to do. We love to be inspired by the past. It can not only be an aesthetic inspiration, it could be a technical inspiration also. The technical aspect is very important. The French craftsmanship is very good. We have some old technique from the antique period. Old period from the 17th century or to the 1930s. And we love to use those techniques because they are extremely luxury and we love to bring that to our clients.
- [06:34]
Guillaume Thayot
And I want to talk about that more. But let's tell people a little bit. So we're talking to you. It's the 150th anniversary.
- [06:43]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, this year it's 150th anniversary. The founder of the company was close to the Opera area for 10 years. He started in 1875. We think he was involved in the project of the opera. He was a great gilder and he was doing paintings and decor and also he was designing a few stools. He's very well known to have developed a very special model of stools in the 19th century. But his major business were painting and gilding on wood paneling and also creation of wood paneling decor. So he bought this property here. We are just six blocks from the Place de l'etoile. So we are right in the center of Paris, which is kind of unique. You don't have so many old French company who still had their original location. You have Hermes, you have a few one like that. But we are just a few one and we are extremely lucky to have that. So he reused one of the glass of the iron structure of the roof of the World Exhibition of 1878.
- [07:49]
Guillaume Thayot
So that's the roof?
- [07:50]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, that's the roof, yes. And I found out just two years ago, people from the Orsay Museum told me that, and I didn't know that. And I say, now I understand why we have so much beam, because they have not been created for our building but for the World Exhibition. So it's a crazy thing.
- [08:07]
Guillaume Thayot
Well, it's spectacular.
- [08:09]
Unnamed Guest
I mean, yes, it's very. People don't realize when they come from the street, they think it's a normal shop, but in fact it's not normal. We have almost 20,000 square foot of mess.
- [08:19]
Guillaume Thayot
And there's nothing normal about this shop.
- [08:22]
Unnamed Guest
No, no, no, no. It's kind of unique.
- [08:24]
Guillaume Thayot
So tell me, and I want to come back to the, to the history and the evolution. But I, I want to understand, as you say, when you're, when you're working. So Michael Smith, for example, who wrote the foreword to your book. Right. And he's a, he's a good, good client, A good friend and client.
- [08:41]
Unnamed Guest
Partner.
- [08:42]
Guillaume Thayot
Yes. So tell me the process. Michael will come here and he'll have an idea of what he, what he wants.
- [08:51]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, yes. He called me Michael. We know each other since most 20 years now. So we know.
- [08:57]
Guillaume Thayot
So there's a shorthand.
- [08:58]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, it's kind of easy, you know, we go quick. And I love to work with Michael. He's a very talented designer. And so we give me some direction, some input. You have to go in that project direction or go in that museum direction. And we draw for him on very quickly a few rooms, a few possibilities, and he select what he liked. And after he showed that to his client, and after we price and after we make technical drawings much more accurate than the Photoshop drawings were more aesthetic. But it's a very Good way to drawings is a very good way to build up a proportion for a room. Proportion is a key word in our world. You cannot use a huge high on the ceiling room from the Place Vendome in the fifth Avenue low understanding apartment. You can do something taking some input from some details. But you have to be careful. Proportion is a key word.
- [10:04]
Guillaume Thayot
So coming back to the history. So the business starts. He's a gilder, he's doing this very specialized work. And then you begin to acquire these archives. And I imagine over 150 years there's ups and downs.
- [10:21]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, yes, we have a very interesting story. So Mr. Fournier who creates a business he was very extremely lucky because his period was. It was a gilded age. In America it was the 200 big family, the bankers industrial family. In France you had all the big European clients. And they were all very fascinated by the 18th century. They're all recreating some Newcastle Hotel particular all around the world. And we had humongous project that was a gilded age of our company. And we have work for Henri Frick, we have work for the Vanderbilt. We have also do a crazy house in Paris. Who was the most beautiful Parisian mansion? It was the Pink palace, the Palais Rose built by Bonnie de Castellan. He was a very, very important people from the society of Paris. He was described by Proust in many of his book. And he was married to Mrs. Gould of the favorite daughter of Mr. Gould. A lot of children of billionaires of America have been married to noble families. They are not the only one. And the relation was sometimes kind of complicated. It was complicated and they get divorced. But before divorcing they had the crazy idea to reproduce the Grand Trianon of Versailles in the Avenue Foch. So you have to imagine that the Avenue Foch was a fifth avenue of. Of Paris. And it was extremely complicated to get a piece of property. And he bought a full block with the money of the Gould. And he recreated that house and he also recreate the staircase that Louis XIV have created in Versailles. His ambassador who have disappeared in the 19th century. He recreated that just to show how important he was for the Parisian life and for the French life and also for the American people. And because of his wife. And so we were. We have done many room for. For them. He was one of our biggest clients at that period.
- [12:31]
Guillaume Thayot
So. And this was a big statement that the. The new rich Americans would. Would want to make. Yes by recreating some part of Versailles or something grand from French history.
- [12:44]
Unnamed Guest
And it was very trendy. And after world World War I. Right. And it was a great big shock. A lot of worker of the company died at war. And the founder of the company become depressed. He had to announce the bad news to the family who was living in some of the building he owned in the street. So it was a tough situation and he didn't handle it. And the company started in 1911, after the war. And it became more an interior design company. The man who bought the company, Mr. Groloux, was more an interior designer. And my grandfather purchased a business for my father in the late 50s. And my father was a designer too. He was, yes. But he still kept both of them, kept the collection, the space and still acquire some nice panel. But they changed the business of the company. And when I started to work for my father, I had to kill the father. I had to change. I realized I wanted.
- [13:48]
Guillaume Thayot
He doesn't mean that literally.
- [13:49]
Unnamed Guest
No, no, no, no.
- [13:50]
Guillaume Thayot
It doesn't mean that he actually killed his father. No, it's a metaphor. Yes.
- [13:56]
Unnamed Guest
Somehow you have to do it. Because he was a designer and I didn't want to become a designer. I realized we had something much better to do, is to go back to the original business of the company we were doing before World War I and to where to become again a supplier of great decor, great wood, carpentry room for the big designer and architect. All well.
- [14:21]
Guillaume Thayot
And what made you think that that was a better business model to pursue? What made you see that opportunity? And you were so young.
- [14:29]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, my grandfather gave me some share of the company, was 16. I had a great relationship with my grandfather. He was a great man. And he was. Unfortunately, he was a frustrated decorator. Yes. His father didn't want him to become a decorator because his father didn't think.
- [14:52]
Guillaume Thayot
That that grand position.
- [14:54]
Unnamed Guest
Exactly. And he purchased for him a company of chemical.
- [14:59]
Guillaume Thayot
Here, please go and do chemicals.
- [15:01]
Unnamed Guest
Do a real business. Yes, but my grandfather. I've been a designer for a few years. He was working with Jean Pasco, who have done the Normandy boat in the 30s. He was a great designer of the 30s. But my father had to quit that business. But my father became a designer. I think because of the frustration of my grandfather also.
- [15:24]
Guillaume Thayot
He wanted to live his dream for him.
- [15:27]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, for his son. And my grandfather bought him this business to my father. And my father was working at the John Cene firm. He was assisting Christian Boudin to redecorating the White House. And after my grandfather for the Kennedys. And after my grandfather bought him that business in the early 60s. And after I Realized I love interior design because I'm in the center of the interior design world. But I didn't want to become a designer. I prefer to do the business we were doing before World War I. And to go back to that story.
- [16:04]
Guillaume Thayot
How did you know about what the business had been?
- [16:07]
Unnamed Guest
It came step by step. And I was listening to my father. I worked for him for a few years here. But also I've done an MBA program in San Francisco. And after my. And during my MBA program I have managed an antique and interior design shop for designer of California. And he saw on my papers piles of drawings of panelings. And he told me, I love those. We need those. We don't know how to manage this problem. When we do a project on pebble beach and we have to build many rooms, we don't know how to do it. We need your people help. We need your help. And he make me confirm my idea of doing that direction and to go back to that business. And he helped me a lot. And he was one of my first clients in San Francisco. And after I developed a lot the California market with Michael, with Andy Skerman, with other designer from California.
- [17:13]
Guillaume Thayot
Okay, so did you come back to Paris after?
- [17:17]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, yes. I left San Francisco and I came back here my father for one or two years to managing a big project in Tokyo for Robuchon. It was a French castle we built in Tokyo. And for Tayvon Robuchon. And after my father decided he had some health issue and I pushed him a lot trying to explain him we have to do that. At the beginning he said no. And after he find out that I bring some new clients who had the same vision that I have and I bring some nice designer. And he was kind of happy and the transition was okay.
- [17:59]
Guillaume Thayot
So you were able to say, I already have orders. There's already a demand.
- [18:03]
Unnamed Guest
It's no regime when you can do that. It's not just an idea. And he helped me and he was kind of happy because we. That's also part of the old history of the business. So it was not something completely different. And we have the tools. Also.
- [18:21]
Dennis Scully
We'Re taking a quick break from the show to talk about something every interior designer knows. Dealing with multiple vendors can be a huge headache. Instead of sourcing single pieces from many places, place a single order from Ethan Allen and they'll even handle the delivery. They offer made to order furniture in almost any style, customizable from an enormous library of fabrics, leathers, wood finishes and more. They also have a full line of home accents, custom window Treatments and custom soft goods. You do the designing and Ethan Allen brings it to life. Get started today@ethanallen.com trade and now back to the show.
- [19:09]
Guillaume Thayot
So at the time, did you have all of these workrooms, did you have all these craftspeople to make all of this?
- [19:16]
Unnamed Guest
It was kind of tough. We used to do curtains here on sofas and not wood paneling. We were doing some wood paneling with subcontractors. So I had to bring some new people to build some workshops to create some new space to do the finishing, to to learn about the technique that some competitors and the suppliers to bring that in a house workshop. And it took me a few sometimes, but I made it quite well. And also I had the chance to have also some crazy clients who bring me some crazy projects.
- [19:56]
Guillaume Thayot
Tell me you're the crazy clients.
- [19:58]
Unnamed Guest
One of the most important, and I think it built my life a lot was a German billionaire who had sell chemical conglomerate about 25 years ago and who bought one of the most extraordinary house in St Jean Cafe called the Villa Fiorentina that Richard Cameron redecorated in the 50s. And it's an iconic house. Alberto Pinto told me one day, you know, this house for me is the most beautiful house in the world. And Alberto Pinto know many houses? Yes, he used to know many houses and now he passed away. But he was a great client and a very good friend. He was, yes. And he told me that. And those clients came with their architect and designer from Gstadt. And they told me after one visit in my office for two hours, you're going to do the full two major floor of a home. And we want something very crazy. So that was a great help because this house was amazing. That help you to confirm your idea when you're young and that gives you a lot of self confidence. And after a lot of big designer from America helped me a lot. And like people like Robert Couturier or Brian McCarty or Michael Smith now much more. And other designer and architect Suzanne Tucker. Bunny Williams.
- [21:26]
Guillaume Thayot
Yes. Your son was talking about working with Bunny Williams when I.
- [21:30]
Unnamed Guest
Yes. And we even work with Peter Marino sometimes or other big names. I don't like to do the dropping, but.
- [21:36]
Guillaume Thayot
No, no, it's an impressive list.
- [21:39]
Unnamed Guest
Michael Mitzinski is also a very good client. We have plenty of clients in America. A lot of designer and great architect Ferguson and Chezma M. Oscar was also a great architect. Some of you office partner or in the office now working on some project. So we. We have a very strong relation with those Partner and they are also. The GC could be also great partner. And they. They like to work with us. They feel confident and, and do they all want to.
- [22:11]
Guillaume Thayot
Do they all want to come here and. And sort of wander through and, and see everything? Some.
- [22:17]
Unnamed Guest
Some want.
- [22:17]
Guillaume Thayot
Okay.
- [22:18]
Unnamed Guest
Michael is supposed to come now, is that right?
- [22:20]
Guillaume Thayot
Okay. Michael Smith is on his way.
- [22:23]
Unnamed Guest
He's on his way.
- [22:24]
Guillaume Thayot
Okay.
- [22:25]
Unnamed Guest
But to confirm some modification, he was here with his client yesterday. Some like to come and some don't need because they have their own feeling. It's very weird because they have all different way to act. And it's not because it's different that the result is not perfect. And sometimes there is some client I never met and the designer have his own idea, the architect have his own idea and the job is perfect. It's fantastic. It's amazing. We need a strong vision of someone.
- [22:59]
Guillaume Thayot
So when people are coming to you and if they're not even coming here to be inspired, what is it that they're relying on you to do? What is your reputation?
- [23:09]
Unnamed Guest
And sometimes we can just. Just pick one small details of a 17th century panel and we can recreate with just one small detail a very 1930s new room style. Which is kind of weird because we are talking about 17th century, 1930s. But the way we can play with that details, we can bring it in another style. And that could be very interesting. It's very important to. We don't want to cut everything with the past. It's very important to respect that. But the thing is, I have always loved the mix of a beautiful neoclassic decor, paint in white with a beautiful commode in mahogany and with an African sculpture or a beautiful painting by Jean Michel Basquiat on an African sculpture on the top of the commode in Maorgani. That mix to me is very clever. And having a stool by Lalanne also around the corner or something like that, to me this golden mix is really, really nice. And it's very sexy.
- [24:12]
Guillaume Thayot
Is it hard though? I imagine it is for you to sell some of the things that are on display.
- [24:20]
Unnamed Guest
The room I sold to the Fast man. I have to admit that it was very heartbreaking. Because it was heartbreaking, yes. My father bought 30% of the room and after I was a chance to find with Alexey and Kugel, the other part of the room. We make everything together. And that room was amazing polymer. The most beautiful room made in the 17th century. The Louvre wanted to acquire that room to make a fantastic display. But finally they didn't find the proper Space to do it. So somehow when you sell this room, you happy money for the financialists. For the financialists, yes.
- [25:01]
Guillaume Thayot
Right.
- [25:02]
Unnamed Guest
But somehow it's a little bit. Little part of yourself you are selling.
- [25:07]
Guillaume Thayot
Yes. A little bit of your history.
- [25:09]
Unnamed Guest
And I was shocked. A couple of years ago a Chinese lady came and she wanted to buy 17 room, my most important rooms. And I was at the beginning I had all the number. I said, oh, I'm rich. But after I found out, three days after, I almost make a depression because what happened? Because. Because I would be scared to not have all these beautiful treasures in my collection.
- [25:38]
Guillaume Thayot
You didn't want to sell.
- [25:39]
Unnamed Guest
And she tried to remove the money from China. And it was a complicated situation with the government. She was stuck and she was not able to buy the hotel, particularly on the collection of wood panning. So finally I was really happy that it didn't went through.
- [25:55]
Guillaume Thayot
So you were rich quickly for a day or two and then you thought.
- [25:59]
Unnamed Guest
No, but it was happy.
- [26:01]
Guillaume Thayot
Yes. In the end you were happy because you had all of those rooms.
- [26:04]
Unnamed Guest
Yes. And it keep me and it makes me thinking if it happens again, I will limit this situation to only four to five room and not 17 or 18, right? Yes. So I will be a little bit rich, but not.
- [26:16]
Guillaume Thayot
So you'll have a nice house.
- [26:20]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, that's enough.
- [26:21]
Guillaume Thayot
Yes, that's enough. That's enough. So you've talked about working with so many wonderful American designers.
- [26:29]
Unnamed Guest
Yes.
- [26:29]
Guillaume Thayot
And one of the big undertakings that you are taking on is actually coming to America and opening up a showroom in the D and D building. We'll say sometime in the spring or the summer, who knows, end of March.
- [26:44]
Unnamed Guest
Early April is going to be the room. Already the space is empty. We need to build the wall on the some. The floor is on the boat. So it's going to be for sure in three and a half months it's going to be done.
- [26:56]
Guillaume Thayot
Okay. So things are on a boat.
- [26:58]
Unnamed Guest
Yes.
- [26:59]
Guillaume Thayot
So some of your collection, some of what's here.
- [27:01]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, yes. The seven room we will install in that space are done. They are ready.
- [27:08]
Guillaume Thayot
Okay.
- [27:08]
Unnamed Guest
You will have some beautiful room by Ledoux, by Belanger, by Percier Fontaine. Some straw marquetry room we are reusing. Some panel we have used for Michael Smith's dining room in Madrid with a beautiful grey sea paper. We are reusing a rulemann room in white. Fantastic. The best room Rohlman ever made. We sold to the Louvre. Boudhabie will be reproduced there. There is also a fantastic room I love. It's a Room that Jean Michel Frank copied for the Guerlain family in the 30s. And it's going to be a really, really nice and unique showroom.
- [27:52]
Guillaume Thayot
Right, so. So you're going to have quite a few historic pieces in there, it sounds like. Tell me what you're imagining happening from that, because not every designer is going to be able to work with you, I imagine.
- [28:10]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, there is always a cost issue. I think I will need to explain them that I know not every client can afford that, but we will have some room in the €400,000. So I think it's a price of a Bentley.
- [28:25]
Guillaume Thayot
Oh, so you make it sound very rich. You say it like that.
- [28:30]
Unnamed Guest
No, but we are in a special high quality world, of course. And I think a Bentley is used. After three years on my room, they will live forever with the room and they will enjoy it every night and day. And when they will walk up, they will go through their apartment and they will see that beautiful work and they will love it. When I start to work with a client, I have it for forever. Most of the time when they have a new space, they come back and there be so many US clients who. I'm working the fifth or sixth project and I have to say that I'm like a drug sometimes for some of the.
- [29:10]
Guillaume Thayot
Well, I wonder, I mean, Right. Because I can imagine people getting addicted to wanting.
- [29:16]
Unnamed Guest
They're very happy. And after. Yes, if they go back to other supplier, they might sometimes not be so happy. So they may be spending a little bit less money, but at the end they come back.
- [29:28]
Guillaume Thayot
Tell me, I want to talk more about America, but tell me a bit about French craftsmanship and the traditions of how your workrooms make and manufacture and what makes it so special and hard to replicate and hard to teach too.
- [29:47]
Unnamed Guest
Because we have a unique. I think we have a unique sense of quality. The craftsmanship is very fantastic. We have some special training program called the Companion Tour de France, the Companion du Devoir. And we have a lot of these training people, people who are following this training program in our company. And we are.
- [30:10]
Guillaume Thayot
So it's an apprentice program?
- [30:11]
Unnamed Guest
It's an apprentice program. They start very early, when they're 14 years old.
- [30:14]
Guillaume Thayot
When they're 14.
- [30:14]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah. But they can come after. Sometimes you have people who are in the bunk business who come back. But it's a very good program. And they go in workshop for many years and they learn all the techniques. So we have plenty of different fantastic technique from the past. And with the unique quality and the skill is really amazing because it Seems.
- [30:37]
Guillaume Thayot
I mean, and you tell me all of your capabilities, but I mean glass and wood.
- [30:43]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, glass is something new. We don't used to do glass room. But a very big architect on nature designer from New York told me we receive a price from someone who was extremely expensive. Can you do that for all the price? And I say yeah, I can make it. Yes, I can do it. And I learned how to make it and we find some. The first room I made with a subcontractor from Italy and England. It was complicated and now I find out with someone in Paris suburb. We know how to manage that very precisely and perfectly in a more easy way. And they do fantastic work. And they have done some detail of the Notre Dame renovation and the cast glass visibility. A new field I'm exploring now and we are doing fantastic rooms.
- [31:35]
Guillaume Thayot
I mean that's extraordinary.
- [31:36]
Unnamed Guest
Yes.
- [31:37]
Guillaume Thayot
It's very different than designers. That glass molding and that idea.
- [31:41]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, yes. It's amazing. It's amazing.
- [31:45]
Guillaume Thayot
So getting back to America and opening the showroom at the D and D building, what is that going to make possible for you, do you think?
- [31:54]
Unnamed Guest
I hope you know, I think I would like to develop this market more. I think there is a lot of designer who don't know me, who are not sure. And sometimes you can have a small designer architect in America who can have one big client. Going to the D and D is a good way to purpose and to show to this client quickly what we can do. And they can run in the showroom in five minutes. They will see. Wow, this is beautiful straw market with art deco beautiful French oak patinate like in the Jean Michel Franck style. They can be really. We feel confident that we can do that for them and it's a very good way to bring that to America. And also my clients from the west coast are happy. We have a drawing office in New York so they don't have the nine hour difference time frame.
- [32:46]
Guillaume Thayot
Right.
- [32:47]
Unnamed Guest
And I think we are thinking about building a workshop also in, in the next three to four years in, in New York with a training program of a young American. And also we would like to develop that situation also.
- [33:02]
Guillaume Thayot
Okay. And, and, and train people there to.
- [33:05]
Unnamed Guest
Help your people from America in the same tradition. Yes.
- [33:09]
Guillaume Thayot
Okay.
- [33:09]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, yes.
- [33:15]
Dennis Scully
We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Ernesta. Ernesta's designer quality custom size rugs are the foundation to an elevated space. Help your clients transform their homes by joining Ernesta's trade program. As a member of the Ernesta trade program, you'll get preferred pricing, free unlimited 12x12 samples and dedicated services such as a personal account manager and a trade only website. To learn more about joining this exclusive program, head to ernesta.com boh that's ernesta.com boh and now back to the show.
- [34:00]
Guillaume Thayot
So what is the most challenging part of scaling a highly specialized business like this? Tell me what some of the challenges are for you.
- [34:11]
Unnamed Guest
I think it's a communication with the client. Try to have the best communication you can and trying to understand what they want and try to help them to create the most beautiful thing and to motivated them to motivate their clients to create some beauty. That's the most challenging thing to do. And to do so you have to present them some extremely beautiful thing. That's why we collect the best pieces from the best designer and architect. Because with a nice set of pictures, with a beautiful model, you can explain them. That could be fantastic for your dining room. And using that details who have been created for this king or this big client or this beautiful English billionaire in the 30s by Ruhlmann could be fantastic in your home in Palm Beach. That's what we try to achieve and try to motivate them and give the designer the tool to motivate their clients.
- [35:18]
Guillaume Thayot
And when you acquire all of these pieces, how do you even go and excavate them from where they are?
- [35:26]
Unnamed Guest
It's a crazy world because a big auction house don't like to deal with that. So most of the time they call me directly. We made private sale because it's complicated to remove everything. Even to analyze if a room is antique or not. Normally you need to see the back. So there is a big risk. You cannot remove a room without be sure it's antique or not. It's kind of complicated. So they call me directly and also I buy directly from big collection, big collectors. I recently acquired a fantastic Jean Michel Frank room in straw marquetry which is unique. It's one of the best straw marquetry room he made in the 30s for the princess Huy Narretta de Polignac singer. And I was so happy to have it. And it's going to be show at the Tefaf New York in the Armory show next May. We are sharing the property with Jacques Lacoste of that room. And it's going to be a fantastic event because that room is amazing. So a museum pieces. So acquiring this thing is so very exciting. And we are. I was not sure to be able to buy it. And sometimes you can be with competitors. You don't know who they are, if they are very rich or not. So it's always crazy story, right?
- [36:44]
Guillaume Thayot
So you never know for sure.
- [36:46]
Unnamed Guest
You never know, you never know. And I almost miss the first someone, a small, a gypsy Deloc offered me that room two years ago and didn't trust the guy. And I was wrong because the room was full of awful things. And at the back you see a little bit of straw marquetry. But it was a mess and the room looked distressed and I was not sure. And when I look at the men, I said, it cannot be Jean Michel Frank. And two years later an auctioner came back and tell me this is Frog. And he showed me the certificate of the foundation and he had no doubt and he was right. And I missed the opportunity to buy that from two years before. And I finally acquired it. But it's always story like that and I have plenty of crazy story, I'm sure. One day I bought in Houston, Texas a huge humongous collection of wood paneling that had been built by a billionaire from Texas in the 50s, 60s, 70s. His name was John Mecam. And he wanted to build a huge collection of paneling because he wanted to build huge 5 star hotel in Texas, in Houston, Dallas. And he had the good idea to reuse those beautiful decor. So he acquired many big room and he purchased some fantastic collection. Like the big interior design company went in bankruptcy after when the Shah of Iran collapsed, they closed their business and they made an auction. And my grandfather and my father went to this auction and they tried to buy some paneling. And this man from Texas bought everything in front of the French dealer. On one day a lady came in a Biennale antique affair in Paris and she came to see me. I bought a house in Houston, Texas and I say, I don't really care, but she sent me a pile of pictures with thousands of pictures of beautiful decor. And I say, what is that? And she told me without the house, I had a warehouse full of paneling I don't want to keep. Can you buy them? And I say yes. And I bought all these beautiful panels that I bring back from Houston to Paris. That was one of my major acquisition.
- [39:07]
Guillaume Thayot
Crazy things, crazy things. And do you keep a reserve, some money always available in case you need to make the.
- [39:16]
Unnamed Guest
No, we are making much more business. So we own our real estate, we own a huge collection. So the bank, we have kind of big amount of assets. So the bank are easy with us because they follow us since 30 years. As I know we are a solid business. So it's Easy now.
- [39:35]
Guillaume Thayot
So. And. And have you been approached by investors? Do people want?
- [39:38]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, yes, many times. And I refuse.
- [39:41]
Guillaume Thayot
You don't want to?
- [39:42]
Unnamed Guest
No. I don't know. I would like to keep independent and I will feel more confident and I don't need them to develop my business. I can do it. My. I can. I don't need money from the other one for the moment. Maybe it's stupid. Maybe I will change my mind. I don't know.
- [40:00]
Guillaume Thayot
Private equity.
- [40:01]
Unnamed Guest
Yes. I know there is plenty of in France of group launched by private equity, but I don't think it's a good idea. And some of them are selling woodwork, but also they are also interior designers. So they are competing with their clients. So it's kind of weird and I don't want to go in that direction. I think I'm much more comfortable where I am now.
- [40:25]
Guillaume Thayot
You want to be independent?
- [40:26]
Unnamed Guest
Yes. And I have a huge market so I can develop it by myself. I'll stay independent. Maybe one day I will have to go with a founder, I don't know. But for the moment, no.
- [40:36]
Guillaume Thayot
So. And LVMH or I mean if Monsieur Arnault, he calls and says this seems like a good fit for the business.
- [40:44]
Unnamed Guest
You know me, he came a few times, I worked for him. But no, I don't think so.
- [40:52]
Guillaume Thayot
Okay.
- [40:52]
Unnamed Guest
I don't think we are in a different. Is a fashion and luxury business for jewelry and Tiffany's and you don't have anything in the interior design business yet. I think he's going more in the hotel.
- [41:07]
Guillaume Thayot
Seems that.
- [41:08]
Unnamed Guest
Yes. I don't think he's gonna go in that direction, but you never know.
- [41:12]
Guillaume Thayot
And with that in mind, I mean what's your sense of where design is going and is. Is technology playing a bigger role in the process?
- [41:24]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, we have to go in the technology. We have to be at the top of the technology. We have some 3D scan. We have plenty of. The new technology is very important and.
- [41:37]
Guillaume Thayot
Artificial intelligence and all of that.
- [41:39]
Unnamed Guest
I'm sure that that will help us for some detailings. We need those. We are spending every year a couple of hundred thousand euros on those directions to acquire some new technology. It's very important. Very important. We don't want to lose the train.
- [41:57]
Guillaume Thayot
So you want to stay ahead of that. And so you make this sounds like big investments.
- [42:01]
Unnamed Guest
We have to.
- [42:01]
Guillaume Thayot
Keeping up with technology.
- [42:03]
Unnamed Guest
We have to. Yes, yes, we realize it's very important. And playing with Photoshop is something I've always wanted to do before. We're doing the drawing by Hand we. We still have to draw by handsome drawing, but by scanning them, we can go be very fast and we can make some proposition of beautiful design very quickly because we manage that technology.
- [42:28]
Guillaume Thayot
So are there designers that you wish you could work with? Are there people whose attention you wish you could get somehow?
- [42:37]
Unnamed Guest
There is always designer would wish to work. There is always some. There is some new area I would like to work with, but I think I'm quite lucky to work with the one I work with now. And what I will achieve in America, I think is very important to me. And after, it's good to be also a little bit focused. And I have a tendency to go large. But now I would like to be focused in some special market and to build up some new consistent story. And New York for me is a very important step under. What we will achieve at the D and D is unique. You have to understand that for the moment, you don't have any showroom from that quality at the D and D. You have a lot of people. We have beautiful things. Beautiful showroom.
- [43:32]
Guillaume Thayot
Yes.
- [43:32]
Unnamed Guest
But the way we will build our room will be kind of unique for that space. So we are kind of happy to bring them to New York.
- [43:41]
Guillaume Thayot
Yes, I feel like there's nothing like that, as you say.
- [43:44]
Unnamed Guest
No, there's nothing like that. And we have a great. A lot of people are very enthusiastic with that. So we have a lot of book signing for big designer architect ica, which is a great support to us. Give us a beautiful award. Last year we have Archie Ross Award, and I was honored to receive that. So we're going to make plenty of events for beautiful Classic Architecture association is very important to our development and they help us a lot. And also a lot of designers will go through that showroom. We love that new thing. And it's very interesting to make them understand that we can achieve that. That for. For them.
- [44:28]
Guillaume Thayot
And if New York is successful, will you come to California? Will you come to open? I. Can you imagine opening more showrooms?
- [44:36]
Unnamed Guest
Yes, maybe. Maybe not so much because it's a big investment. And. And maybe before going to California and after, you have to think about San Francisco, Louisiana. Where to go.
- [44:48]
Guillaume Thayot
Yes.
- [44:48]
Unnamed Guest
And all these big designers from. From la. They go to New York a lot or they go to Paris. So maybe London will be. Or maybe Asia. I think going to Hong Kong. We have plenty of big projects in that area and we have to think about the future. And I think we have to be in that part of the world.
- [45:09]
Guillaume Thayot
It seems like an incredible opportunity. I feel like people will discover that showroom in New York and then they'll want to book a flight to Paris to come here.
- [45:18]
Unnamed Guest
Because Paris, it's a big mess. It's a crazy. It's a unique atmosphere. But maybe also I had the idea instead of the D and D, maybe I had the idea of buying a big space in Long Island City and recreate the exact same thing. I have the possibility to do it because we have the same amount of pieces in warehouses in the countryside. So I can bring that to Long Island City. It's something maybe I'm going to do one day. But I tell myself, I love that. Yes. But I tell myself a lot of designer to told me, we never go to Long Island City.
- [45:51]
Guillaume Thayot
No, no, they don't.
- [45:52]
Unnamed Guest
And even clients. So I say so that's why the DND is the only solution.
- [45:57]
Guillaume Thayot
Yes, yes, yes. I mean, and maybe that will change. But you're right, it's.
- [46:02]
Unnamed Guest
I will see, maybe in three years I will tell you I found this big old space or new space and we're going to go crazy there. And it's maybe a possibility. And having a small workshop with five to 10 people there, it's not stupid.
- [46:17]
Guillaume Thayot
There's so many opportunities for you. It's extraordinary. You're so kind to let me come and spend the time and I thank you so much.
- [46:25]
Unnamed Guest
You're welcome.
- [46:25]
Guillaume Thayot
It's a privilege.
- [46:26]
Unnamed Guest
Yes. I'm very happy to have you.
- [46:30]
Dennis Scully
Thanks for listening.
- [46:31]
Guillaume Thayot
If you'd like to keep up with.
- [46:32]
Dennis Scully
The latest design industry news, visit us.
- [46:35]
Guillaume Thayot
Online@Businessofhome.Com where you can sign up for.
- [46:38]
Dennis Scully
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- [46:40]
Guillaume Thayot
Join our BoH Insider community for access.
- [46:43]
Dennis Scully
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- [46:48]
Guillaume Thayot
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- [46:55]
Dennis Scully
Review on Apple Podcasts.
- [46:57]
Guillaume Thayot
It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicolaus and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.