Max Rollitt wants to bring fun back to the home

Summary

Podcast Summary: Business of Home – Max Rollitt Wants to Bring Fun Back to the Home

Podcast: Business of Home Podcast
Host: Dennis Scully
Guest: Max Rollitt
Date: June 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dennis Scully sits down with Max Rollitt—antique restorer, reproduction maker, and interior designer—to discuss the evolution and challenges facing the antiques trade and interior design, the undervalued dining room, and his mission to revive exuberance and fun in homes. The conversation weaves together personal anecdotes, market insights, and philosophical reflections on beauty, craftsmanship, and the future of interiors.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Designing the Wowhouse Dining Room

• Collaboration with Schumacher: Max highlights the transatlantic nature of his partnership for the prestigious Wowhouse event—a collaboration aimed at merging English aesthetics with American sensibilities. (03:09)
• Challenge of Dining Rooms: The dining room, often overlooked or even eliminated in modern homes, becomes Rollitt’s vehicle to stage atmosphere, richness, and "moody" design. He describes creating artificial daylight in a windowless, built-inside showroom setting. (05:01)
• Pushing Formality with Ease: Max’s intent is to retain a sense of formality and grandeur but infuse the space with relaxation and exuberance.

  "We lack exuberance, we lack play, we lack fun in the home. And I think that's what I'm trying to introduce." – Max (06:14)

The Importance (and Decline) of Exuberance in Design

• Fear of Color and Ornamentation: Dennis notes a prevalence of beige and gray schemes in America, with people fearing to express personality through color. Max believes this era has passed in the UK, suggesting a return of color and decoration is due.

  "The more ornate will return as well. It's inevitable... That's richness, and we need that richness rather than bland." – Max (07:03)

• Technological Revival of Ornament: Technology is empowering a comeback for ornament in furniture, allowing for details once lost to mechanization.

  "They are literally scanning ornament with a phone. They're then 3D printing it and then... casting it... Such things historically would have just been so difficult and taken so much time." – Max (08:35)

Personal Journey and Multi-Faceted Business

• Learning by Doing: After university, Max was drawn to furniture making, learning French polishing and restoration before launching his own shop.

  "I bought things, I bought problems, and I solved them. There's a joy in putting things back, bringing things back to life." – Max (15:31, 16:01)

• Transition to Decorator: Spur-of-the-moment requests led to Max’s first decorating projects, eventually landing in House and Garden and growing through word-of-mouth.
• Current Work: Projects range from stately homes in Scotland and Herefordshire (including sensitive updates to John Fowler interiors), to reimagining barns and cottages. The diversity of projects illustrates both curation and fresh creativity. (19:36–22:59)

Philosophy: Comfort, Joy, and Family

• Humanizing Spaces: Max’s core belief is that homes should be rich and culturally nourishing, drawing on both family values and beauty.

  "Objects and beautiful surroundings... can be enriching, like beautiful music... Your environment is really, really important." – Max (23:15)

• Client Trust: Trust is built gradually, often starting with published work or house visits, but solidified by shared experience and personalized curation. (24:20)
• Antiques for Delight, Not Investment: The era of buying antiques purely for asset growth has faded; now, Rollitt sees value in selection, restoration, and contextualization.

  "You are buying from... someone is putting something in front of you that they feel has merit." – Max (26:04)

The Revival and Realities of Antiques

• Market Collapse and Recovery: Overexposure led to a collapse in brown furniture; now there’s opportunity as tastes shift again, especially as the cost of craftsmanship rises.
  • Example: Max purchased a wardrobe for £100, but spent £3,000 to restore it (35:08).
• Skilled Labor Shortage & Opportunity: Fewer restorers with traditional discipline are coming into the trade, making skilled work more precious—and more expensive. (36:04–37:19)
• Future Outlook: Despite a decade of headlines about revival, Max sees genuine potential, as people crave objects that endure and gain character over time.

The Evolving Role of Interior Design

• Growth in the UK Market: Interior design is becoming more accepted in the UK, shifting from a DIY mindset to recognizing professional expertise as people have less time. (43:39)
• Entry into the Trade: In the UK, a creative or artistic background remains crucial; experience "arranging a shop, placing things... doing exhibitions" builds the necessary cumulative knowledge.

  "To be a successful designer, you have to come of it from some form of creative skill... You need that rudimentary sort of grounding in the arts to get somewhere." – Max (44:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Joy and Play:

  "We lack exuberance, we lack play, we lack fun in the home. And I think that's what I'm trying to introduce." – Max (06:14)

• On Ornamentation:

  "To sort of almost banish it is just... tragic, you know. The fineness of detail has to... come back." – Max (07:51)

• On Restoration vs. Manufacturing:

  "If I had it made, [the wardrobe] would be £40,000. It's a completely... upside down world." – Max (37:19)

• On Family and Home:

  "It's educated, it's joyful, it's family and enriching. I think those are the things that we're looking for." – Max (38:57)

• On the Role of the Interior Designer:

  "The Americans have been used to interior design, a norm for people who have a big house, to employ an interior designer. The English have been very stuck in this post war, make do and mend." – Max (42:23)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:26] – Introduction to Wowhouse dining room design
• [05:01] – Simulating daylight in an interior, dining room as set piece
• [06:14] – The need for exuberance and play in the home
• [07:03–09:41] – Color, ornament, and technology's role in modern craftsmanship
• [11:26–16:01] – Max's journey into restoration and furniture-making
• [17:02] – Expansion into bespoke pieces and diversification
• [19:36–22:59] – Notable projects: stately homes, barns, curation vs. design
• [23:15] – Philosophy of comfort, joy, and enriching family life
• [26:04–27:48] – Antiques as curated objects, not just investments
• [31:18–35:31] – State of the antiques market, the importance of "the eye", restoration economics
• [38:57] – Describing the "house style": educated, joyful, family-centric
• [43:39–44:25] – The evolving role of decorators in the UK, entry barriers

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Tone and Atmosphere

The conversation is warm, thoughtful, and deeply rooted in Max's personal values—family, craftsmanship, playfulness, and an embrace of tradition with a fresh, exuberant twist. There is a sense of optimism, tempered by honest acknowledgment of industry challenges, and a gentle humor throughout.

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Takeaway

Max Rollitt champions a return to joyful, personalized interiors where antiques and bespoke pieces imbued with history are not only preserved but brought to daily life. He sees opportunity in revival, a need for skilled hands, and a duty to create environments that nourish the spirit—inviting listeners (and his clients) to once again bring fun back to the home.

Transcript

[A]

This is Business of Home.

[B]

I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is Max Rollitt. Max has many strings to his bow. He's a restorer of antiques, a maker of fine reproductions, and an interior designer out of a restored barn in rural England. He runs three parts of his business with a combined showroom, design studio and upholstery workshop. Max's endeavors are well covered by the British press and he's been featured on House and Garden's top 100 list for more than a decade.

[A]

I spoke with Max about why dining

[B]

rooms are so challenging, why now is a good time to get into the antiques business, and why he wants to bring fun back to the home.

[C]

Foreign.

[B]

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[A]

So Max, I was thinking about the fact that when this episode airs, you and I are actually going to be in Wowhouse the day this drops. It'll be the day of the big gala before it opens to the General Public on June 2nd. I know, exciting. And we're gonna be standing in this quite lavish and grand looking dining room that I see this beautiful watercolor of.

[B]

And I mean again, I hope that

[A]

your room can live up to this beautiful watercolor that I'm seeing. Cause if so, it's gonna be a knockout. But tell me about it. I know you're partnering with Schumacher and you've been no doubt working on it for some time. Tell us.

[C]

Okay. So it was Schumacher contacted me. We share a mutual pr, Elizabeth Machen, who's our PR agent, and she's the PR for Schumacher in the uk. And what I think it does is it links them into a very English aesthetic.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And I think that's the attraction to both of us. For me, it's the American market, and for Schumacher it's the English aesthetic. And I think that's the idea, is to tie us all together. And it had to be done in a very short period of time. It was literally like, okay, so this is it. And you have to have your presentation by the end of next month. So fortunately, we had Christmas in the. In the intervening period.

[A]

Excellent.

[C]

And I would sneak off from the. From the. From the family shenanigans and, And. And go upstairs and draw pretty pictures. And my son. I was. My son was down. And we work a lot together, Edward Roddick and I, and he's. And we just thought about it and. And the dining room is not an obvious place to start for anybody. It's always slightly challenging. It's become, in a way, less important. I think people entertain in different ways nowadays. And Edward and I decided that we were gonna make it moody. Really, really moody. And how are we gonna do that? We were gonna make it rich, and we were gonna light it in a way that was more dusk than just standard studio lights or showroom lights. So we've got a whole lighting rig going in which is casting daylight through those windows that you see at the back of the image. And we'll see if it all works

[A]

well. And we should say to listeners who might not be familiar. So the remarkable thing about daylight coming in through the windows is that this is a house that is literally built within a design center. Exactly.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It all has to be. It all has to be man made.

[C]

So it's a real contrivance. Exactly.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah. Yes.

[A]

But I love that light is pouring in through the windows in this watercolor. And you've got a beautiful chandelier and you've got. And as you were referencing. So in America, there is a feeling, and I often get quite worked up about it, Max. That the dining room is under attack. That people are getting rid of their dining rooms, that people aren't. That dining rooms don't play this central role in bringing the family together in a way that they once did.

[C]

I think that's because we lack the formality. We've lacked the idea of dressing up and to feel relaxed in a grand environment. Wearing casual clothes is difficult. So we're just trying to bring all of that together so you feel relaxed, you feel at ease. There is some formality and grandeur, because why not play into that and just. And just be exuberant?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

You know, we sort of lack that sometimes. We lack exuberance, we lack play, we lack fun in the home. And I think that's what I'm trying to introduce.

[A]

Well, there's a feeling in America that. To your point about lacking exuberance, somebody was writing and commenting recently that people are almost afraid to sort of lean into their real personality and let color through and let exuberance through. And so we end up with. I don't want to pick on beige, but we end up with beige or gray or a lot of these sort of neutral tones, in part just because people are holding themselves back for some reason. Do you sense that as well, where you are?

[C]

I think that's. I think that's come and gone.

[A]

Really.

[C]

I think that's. Yeah, I feel you can't do that anymore. And it's now. Now we're in a place where people are, like, struggling to find their position. I think. I think if you go into, you know, that whole. That whole form of decoration has gone, and I think people need to be educated back into something that is more colorful and how to make that work. Also, I feel like the more ornate will return as well. It's inevitable. You know, it's like we. We need that. And I just think, you know, that's richness, and we need that richness rather than bland. A bland, you know, white has its place, definitely, but it works with other colors, too.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You know, and I think let's. Let's. Let's work on that. And I think ornament has its place. I work with, as, you know, with a lot of antique furniture and objects, and there's such richness and delight within all of that ornament. And to sort of almost banish it is just feels like tragic, you know, And I feel. I've felt this for a while. I feel like the fineness of detail has to, at some time come back. And I think the technological skills are now returning to that point where we will be able to have that again. I think it's all been lost through everything becoming mechanized and people producing things for simplicity's sake. And now technology is taking us to a point where we can put ornament back into pieces. Know, with CNC machines and laser cutting and all of that, it's not so. Not as difficult as it used to be. Yeah, it's. I mean I've. I visited Matthew Bray and Matthew Collins who are helping me with, with the decoration of the, of all the woodwork and the distressing, the dado and the, the, the windows and the fireplace and they, they are literally scanning ornament with a phone. They're then 3D printing it and then they're casting it from the 3D printing thing and they are making fantastic bronze handles and all sorts of things which historically would have just been so difficult and taken so much time. It's quite incredible. So I think we'll see a lot more of it.

[A]

So is that some of the detail that we're going to see in the room that you're describing that we're not

[C]

going to see that? No, we're going to see. What we're going to see in the room is some fantastic damask fabric which is going to hang all over the, which we're going to clad all the walls in. And then there's several pieces of beautiful antique furniture and then some of our bespoke items that we manufacture. So there's a new dining table, some new and some new occasional tables. And there's a, there's a table after William Kent that's been made by my son will, who's 23 next week or something and that's modeled. I had a leg that I got in a swap deal with another antique dealer years ago which has sat in my workshop forever. And I was walking through Chatsworth a couple of years ago and noticed that this leg matched exactly the leg on a table by William Kent at Chatsworth. And so we've taken that leg and turned it into a six legged side table with sea scroll freeze and I put on an antique mahogany top and so it looks the part. And he's done a fantastic job. So that's exciting to have his piece of work there.

[A]

And so tell me, let's talk about this business that you've built because much like this table in your dining room, there's a lot of legs to your business and a lot of different facets. What path do you take and where does it lead you?

[C]

Yes, so after leaving university I found by living in a community in Wales, I bumped into various people and found a chap called Kevin who was making furniture out of recycling and making furniture in a very amateur way. But he obviously really enjoyed it and I actually latched onto that and I thought, okay, making furniture, working with something material and actually being physical and in contact with what I'm making was very attractive. So I thought, okay, so I'll get into. I'll try and go to furniture college. And to get to furniture college, I felt like I had to have some knowledge, at least apart from everything that had been passed on from my mum's business. So I got a job working as a French polisher and explain what that

[A]

is for people who aren't familiar, because that's a lot of layers, right?

[C]

And really, I mean, French polishing is a technique which is applying shellac to the surface of furniture. But the joy of the shellac is that you can actually get a high shine without putting on a large amount of the shellac. So you put it on, you rub it down, you put it on, you rub it down. So actually it looks like the wood is glowing rather than there being a varnish on it. And the French did it to a very high shine so that it looked bright and really energetic. And the English like everything restrained and sort of not too loud. Anyway, so I learned how to do the very shiny bit and that got me into college and I was lucky. I worked with a bunch of mature students. I got on a mature students course and everybody was teaching each other and I was just soaking it all up, very excited. And that was only a year. So I left after a year and then I had to get a job and I got a job working in Winchester with a chap called Chris Frearson. He was really good. So he got work working for the London trade and a couple of really good dealers. And because of his capability, they'd send him really difficult things to do. So he'd swear a lot and get cross. But actually he cared a lot. He was really devoted to it. So I learned an awful lot. And also not only learned because I found out that I was skillful, but I also learned from him how to work and how to work efficiently and on time in a cost effective way. And that's really important. And it's something that is, unless you have someone driving you like that, who's going to actually really force you to get on, I think it's really difficult to. For people to learn and to learn how to work efficiently and how to be employable. You know, that apprentices system is really. Was really good. And that was like five years. No, I was there for seven years in the end, because it was really good, interesting work. And after seven years my mother said she was retiring, which she didn't, which I think was a pretense just to lure me into business because she was feeling a bit older and frail. But also I wanted to take that restoration and make it my own because I'd learned to set. It's like learning how to paint in a certain way, a certain form from a master. And then you need to learn, you need to make it your own. And so that was, that was my opportunity really. So I set up my own shop and my own restoration business as well.

[A]

So people discovered you and soon they were bringing you antiques to restore and you were making things.

[C]

Yeah, I didn't actually work for anybody else from then on. I bought things, I bought problems and I solved them. And I solved them. Yeah, that was. I suppose that's the way you look at it, you know, and also we know what we want now, we know what works and we still buy things that sometimes need too much work. But there's a joy in it, you know, there's a joy in putting things back, bringing things back to life.

[B]

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[A]

Well, so the business that you have today has. So mom does retire and all of that. So it's partially a restoration business. But you also make bespoke pieces. Right? And you?

[C]

I started. Yeah, I started making bespoke pieces because of this. I could see there was a shortage in the market. You know, I'd buy a really beautiful sofa and I knew that it's not repeatable, you know, and that sofa was saleable and that's what people were looking for. So. And I'm diversifying in what I make as well. So it's not just upholstery, it's not just tables. I'm doing quite a lot of lighting. I'm going to be going into other fields soon. Ooh.

[A]

Anything you can tell us there, Max?

[C]

I'm looking at fabrics. Whether, whether actually the world wants. Max. Fabrics is another. Is another thing altogether. I feel like it's a world that has a surfeit of fabric, but then there's always the tastemakers and perhaps I could Tempt people well.

[A]

So, I mean, tell me how actual decorating comes along for you in all

[C]

of this that happened like 2005, I think. I had this really nice man, Richard, came into my shop. He was young, he was probably 35 and quite traditionally dressed. And he said, I really like your things, and I'm trying to buy a house locally and I like your things. Could I look around your house? And I went, yeah, of course. I lived around the shop. So I took him upstairs and he said, oh, this is perfect. Would you help me with my house? Turned out he was very successful hedge fund manager.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So he bought a very nice house locally and, and I, I worked on it and I cut my teeth on that and it worked really well and we got on really well and it got published in House and Garden. And he's. He had a colleague who had bought a house in London and his wife was an architectural historian and she bought this beautiful house in Holland park and she loved Sir Johnstone and she just wanted to push her house a little bit in that direction. What an opportunity. And I was able to play, you know, they, they. Fortunately, money was no real restriction and I was just able to get on with it. And we created something quite special, I think. And that again, got into a magazine and. And then it sort of, it's. It's sort of teetered on and rolled on and grown since then. It's all grown very gently, you know.

[A]

It's not your elaborate business plan that's come to life?

[C]

No, no, there's no elaborate business plan, I'm afraid. No, it's just grown organically and I've been, I've had lean times. I went into the pandemic with no work, you know, and I just thought, what is going to happen? And came out of the pandemic with 11 serious inquiries. And out of that, I think four or five were really serious. And it's been good ever since. And the range is quite ridiculous. The sort of breadth of what we're working on is wonderful. I'm just doing a large, really beautiful house up on the Scottish Borders, which is in the sort of Edinburgh Newtown Georgian school. And it's a big sort of stately home. And then I'm working on an 18th century barn which is adjacent to a property that I've already done. And. And it's essentially making sense and use of this beautiful big space. So that's almost more. Much more conceptual. So. And then we're working on a big. Another big stately home up in Herefordshire which Is again, a wonder, but that's just more curation. It's looking after the house that was worked on by John Fowler and all his colors, which is quite extraordinary to see these sort of lots of lime greens and pinks and grays and a lot of overdressing.

[A]

Well, so what do you do in a situation like that when John Fowler has been there before you?

[C]

Well, it's a sensitive touch. I think there's a bit of cleaning to be done. Definitely. Inevitably, these things just get a little tarnished over time, so we're working on that. And there's fantastic collection of furniture that has just dried up. You know, it's literally all the polish has sort of lost its luster. So it's a case of restoring that as well. We have to reinvigorate it. We have to make it into a family home, this big stately home into a family home. We have to bring this furniture back to life. We have to bring John Fowler back into the building. And so that's exciting. We've got a Scottish house which was painted white. And, you know, this is. You know, it's beautiful, strong architecture. We have to, again, enliven it and put some joy back into it. And then this barn, which is. What are we going to do with a big barn? You know, it's a couple, and they've got a big barn. And you have to make sense of it, and you have to. How are we going to use this so that it doesn't feel just overwhelming and too vast? It's fast. And this. This. This Cottage Ornay is just ridiculous because it's. It's. The house isn't very nice, but it's in a fantastic position, and it's all facing the wrong way. So now we've just got to make it work. And balancing all of those different elements and, you know, the fenestration and getting all the textures right is always. It's. Yeah, that's what I've lived for. It feels like saying this to you. Yeah.

[A]

Well, I mean, it does seem. I mean, it does seem like you've talked in the past about comfort and joy at whatever level. So tell me about that. Tell me about that philosophy and how you think about that and how that comes into your work.

[C]

Well, I think, you know, I'm very much a family man who wants to imbue good values and richness, as in sort of cultural richness, into people's. Into my family's life. And I think I've learned so much from being around beautiful things. They give me so much in return. And I feel like objects and beautiful surroundings can do that. They can be enriching, like beautiful music, you know, it sits within you, it's reflective. Your environment is really, really important. So trying to create that for people is a privilege. It's an absolute privilege.

[A]

And how much do clients give you a free hand? How much do they just turn things over to you and say, max, I trust you. Go to town, do what you want.

[C]

They don't trust you until they know you. They can see what they see on paper or in print or in the hot air that my PR blows out very regularly. And they're very impressive, very impressive at

[A]

flowing out that hot air. Your behalf.

[C]

I know it has.

[A]

Right, I know.

[C]

But until you actually meet someone and understand and sort of come here maybe and see what we, what we have

[A]

in our barn and you've got a barn yourself. You were referencing. But I mean you, I mean you. Yeah, you've got a great.

[C]

And also what we. The way we choose things. You know, I buy antiques just. I buy things sometimes because they're academically significant, but that has to be aligned also with their beauty. And everything has to be beauty. And it has to feedback. It feels like that's the important thing.

[A]

Well, and that's also part of what I'm wondering, are clients looking to you to buy investment grade antiques? Are you saying to them, oh, this is going to only increase in value or minimally it's going to maintain the value?

[C]

I think that's a story in my parents generation. Really?

[A]

Is that what your parents would do?

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. And it was a fact. It was, you know, that was very valid. There was a Devon antique dealer who used to actually, on his invoices write a guarantee that he would purchase the item back for the price that he'd sold it for within three years because he knew that the item was increasing in value all of the time.

[A]

Does it feel that way today?

[C]

No, no. Nowadays it's. You are buying from. It's like you go into a shop because somebody has made a choice for you. Somebody is putting something in front of you that they feel has merit. And they've. In my case, I've chosen it, I've restored it, I've contextualized it. And I think that's the point. So that's where I add on value. And also things fit together. I can make things fit together in a way that some people just wouldn't understand. Especially when you're dealing with antiques, which is not part of our common parlance. Now nobody talks about it. Nobody understands what these things are. Really.

[B]

No.

[A]

And how did that happen?

[B]

Why did we stop being taught or educated about all of that?

[C]

Because the market just disappeared. The market, it became overvalued. You know, it just became. It reached a point where. Where we were just think everything was overvalued. It was. Everybody wanted it. And then it was just like, well, if everybody wants it, I don't want it.

[B]

Right.

[C]

You know, and then that rolls on and then nobody wants it, you know, so. And now, you know, I look at things and stuff has been. A lot of stuff is over restored. A lot of stuff is very dark and very brown and austere. And we're not really in that. We don't really want that level of austerity or that level of formality. So actually creating a dining room for Schumacher is again, quite tricky. You know, how do we get rid of that formality?

[A]

How do we speak to this current market in the time that we're in? Yeah. Through a room that is often laden with tradition and heritage.

[C]

Yeah. And I don't know how it's gonna go.

[A]

Don't know how it's going to be received, frankly.

[C]

There's also that point where actually one client I had who was a famous modern art, New York. Modern art dealer, and she said to me, I was working on a house in Connecticut, and I said, but what are you gonna do with this house? And she said, well, I don't collect friends. I just, you know, some rooms are just nice to look at and that's really important. And if you have a large house, you just, you. You walk through some spaces, they just have to be beautiful and they have to hold their beauty. And often I, in. In a house, I use the dining room almost as a hallway, as an. In a thoroughfare, as a useful thoroughfare. And I think that's. That's a way to look at it as well.

[A]

With your family, when the kids were growing up, was the dining room a very central room for you? Were you all having dinner together regularly and all that?

[C]

We all have dinner together regularly, in fact, but not in a dining. We did have a dining room, and then we inherited this vast piano, which

[A]

took over a great deal of the space.

[C]

Granny's concert grand, which took. Which wasn't gonna be let go of by my wife, and now takes over the whole of the old dining room.

[A]

I see. Making it impossible.

[C]

Making it impossible to have a dining room. So now we all sit at the table and we all eat together. And in fact, we had a friend come to stay for two nights, and she said, max, is there any chance I could see the rest of your house? Cause we've just sat at this table the whole time, So sitting and eating and talking is ridiculously important.

[A]

And it's so central, which is why it always saddened me a little bit to think of the dining room being pushed aside in some way, I think.

[C]

Right, yes, absolutely. And I think, let's embrace that. Let's turn up for dinner. Looking good. I often wear a suit or something really smart, and my friends will go, what are you doing, Lovely? And you're just like, well, it's dinner time. We're here to be together and sort of just feel special.

[A]

I want to come back to the antique market because I'm fascinated.

[C]

This is the business of home, remember?

[A]

Exactly, Max. Okay, so could we bring it back to business, for heaven's sakes? I'm curious what you make of sort of a. The state of the antiques market in general. This collectibles market seems to be very, very hot in this country. We've had several auctions recently that have caught a lot of people's attention. The Lalonde mirrors going for tens of millions of dollars, and even Mr. Newhouse's art collection going for vast sums beyond what they had estimated, suggesting that for

[B]

the right collectible pieces, for the right

[A]

art, the market seems very much alive. And I wonder what your take on that is and how it shows up in your world.

[C]

I think the world has become much. Obviously, I talked about the collapse of the antiques trade and how it's reduced in size, and now I just feel like it's really. We're all very, very focused on what we're doing. The limited amount of antique dealers. So there's a strong core of antique dealers, and there's a lot of auctions that are still sort of rattling on. And there are a few auctions who are actually taking stuff, as antique dealers are from auctions and putting it into their auction and then putting it out to market. So I think the antiques market is strong. I think it's a great time to become an antique dealer or go into the business because it has been so depressed for so long. There is a lot of potential within it, but you have to develop what we call the eye. You can develop an eye by actually just working at it, by making. But it also is very dependent on making decisions. And the thing about antique dealing is you're constantly making decisions and when. And that has proven really useful to me going into. Into interior design because I've, I've made a lot of, you know, been decisive at the critical moment, got on and sort of put my money where, literally where my mouth is, you know, and said, yes, this is what I'm doing.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Antique dealing is about being able to put things into context. So I think historically it used to be as much a commodity based business as it was an aesthetic business. And now I feel like it's gone much more into the aesthetics and what is beautiful rather than everything used to have a fixed value, pretty much. And nowadays that feels like it's gone, it's been blown out of the water.

[B]

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[A]

What I'm so curious about related to all of this. So the brown furniture market just collapsed because.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Whether it got overpriced or overexposed, everybody sort of moved on from it. And what took its place and where are we in that sort of shift is part of what I'm wondering to bring us back.

[C]

I think what to its place was a lot of French furniture, a lot of painted furniture, a lot of that soft white, gray look. And now we're back to a place where I think brown furniture is coming back and it has to be a bit softer, it has to be less restored, it has to be less formal. So it is finding its place. And the actual cost of these things can be very little in auction, but the cost of actually bringing it back to life is expensive of an instance. I, I, I bought a wardrobe off a client and I said, I'll give you £100 for it. I knew it had value, but it's cost me £3,000 to restore it.

[A]

Oh my goodness.

[C]

You know, and so there's, it's

[A]

hope. You're going to get that money back, Max.

[C]

I'll get the money back. I will. Yeah, but it's, it's, the actual cost now is as much in the restoration and the refurbishment of these things. Seeing the beauty is one thing, then restoring it in the correct way is another.

[B]

And why does it cost $3,000 to restore it?

[A]

Help me understand what costs.

[C]

Labor is just, labor is just, I mean, it's like building work. Building work in this country is now twice what it was five years ago. Skilled labor, right. Yeah. And also, people don't work as quickly or as efficiently as they used to. You know, it used to be this. You know, I grew up in very much this work. As I talked about this workshop mentality where everything was regimented and structured and you had to get your thing in gear.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And now it's just not quite the same. It's not, you know, people more relaxed about it and, I don't know, it's not got the same thrust.

[A]

Is that a post Covid thing, do

[C]

you think, or what's caused. That's a different generation. Generation, yeah.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And they don't have someone standing over them in the way that you did when you were coming up in that war, I think.

[C]

I mean, you know, I've got. There's very few of us who are actually restorers who are still restoring and who. Who had that discipline. I don't know. Slightly worrying, really, that more people aren't

[A]

coming up with that discipline.

[C]

Yeah. All the people are coming into the trade because obviously if the market's depressed and disappearing, then who's going to want to be. You know, if you're a furniture maker, why would you go into restoration when you could go into manufacturing? I go and have bespoke joinery made for my projects and it's incredible the cost of these items. You know, that wardrobe that I just talked about, which cost me £3,000 to restore, if I had it made, would be £40,000.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You know, it's a completely. It seems all upside down.

[A]

Yeah, well, so it seems like there's a tremendous opportunity within all of that.

[C]

I think there's definitely opportunity. There's definitely opportunity for people to sort of come in and see what the market is. And I think also there's a revival in antiques. I mean, that's been talked about by. The magazines. Have been desperate to talk about the revival of antiques for like 10 years.

[A]

Yes. And is it real? Is there a revival in antiques? I mean, has certainly come.

[C]

I think there's certainly potential for it. Certainly potential. I think people longing for something that they can gives something back that's not going to fall apart after 10 years. That's going to endure, that's going to get better. That's going to get better with use and improve, you know, I mean, furniture, antique furniture, you know, we're all looking for that patina which has been developed with just age and use and wear, and that's really enriching. It sounds odd, but when things actually develop and sort of take on their own personality, it's really enriching.

[A]

Do people come to you? Do they imagine, I mean, from the early days of this fellow going up and sort of seeing your own home, which I don't imagine you had fixed up as a show place at the time. Right. But people today, do they have an idea in their head of what your look is or your house style is?

[C]

Yeah, I think so. It's educated, it's joyful, it's family and enriching. I think those are the things that we're looking for.

[A]

Yeah. I love that you keep referencing the family part, that I'm a family man and I want to share that with other people. I love hearing. I don't hear that very often and I think that's a wonderful element.

[C]

Well, it's so important. It's so important. And whether it's family, whether it's your actual family or it's your real friends

[B]

and your community and how do you

[A]

imbue a space with that feeling? That's what I'm curious about.

[C]

You have to make it feel. You just make it. You have to make it feel welcoming. You have to make it feel generous, enriched with color and ornament is, you know, whether it's a beautiful Delft plate or a child's painting framed or just something that is human, you know, the human touch. You have to feel that rather than just form.

[A]

Coming back to your business as we wrap up Max. So it seems, I mean, you've joked that the business all just sort of happened and evolved very organically. And is the decorating, is the interior side of your business a big focus for you? And is that sort of the, the fast growing part of your business and something you want to be focusing more on? And do you want to come to America in a big way?

[C]

At the moment, the antiques business is doing really, really well. The interiors is wonderful and the manufacturing is just coming together because we're sort of consolidating what we do and we're producing, I think, more appropriate things, items, so there is no stress on one or the other. But everyone here is really professional and I'm really proud of them. So, you know, they all do their bit really, really, really well and that's fantastic.

[A]

And you've got a pretty big team these days.

[C]

I think there's 23 people working here. Yeah.

[A]

Now, will everybody be turning out for the wow. House festivities? Will we see some of the team around?

[C]

I hope So I think they're in there at the moment scratching their heads, going, what? What? And I'm not getting involved. I'm going up on Thursday and hopefully just.

[A]

Yeah, you're just going to show up on Thursday and it's all going to come together. Okay. Okay. Well, I can't wait to see it. It looks as if it's going to be extraordinary and it's an incredibly exciting event. Wow. House continues to amaze and delight.

[C]

It's very clever. It's very clever what they've done and how they've sort of built it as an annual event. And I think Claire is really smart in her whole attitude. You know, she's really encouraging and she's, you know, it's infectious, her enthusiasm, to be sure.

[A]

Claire German is a force and you can't help but be excited when you're around her. I know I certainly am. And it's so interesting to me still that show houses or this type of thing aren't, aren't a big presence in the UK the way they are in America. I mean, show houses are such a huge thing here. But they, they haven't seemed to have caught on in the uk.

[C]

No, it's only. Is it year four? I think this is the fourth year of it. And I think we've had antique fairs in the past which have sort of done something similar, maybe had a similar thing, but. But this is much more shows the rise of the English interior designer. You know, the Americans have been used to interior design, a norm for people who have a big house, to employ an interior designer. The English have been very stuck in this post war, make do and mend, I can do it myself attitude. And slowly they're learning that actually it's an art form, it's a profession, the interior design business. And we each have there's, I don't know, 10, 12 interior designers represented here, each with great skill and all very different, Very, very different skills, which is, it's really impressive.

[A]

It is very impressive. And I wonder, I mean, what you describe in the uk, there's still this feeling culturally that, oh, do I really need a decorator or a designer to help me? Can't I just fix it all up by myself?

[C]

But it shifted. Now everybody's working every, you know, right. Husband and wife, you know, have their careers and that, you know, everybody I work for is, you know, they are vigorous, you know, in their, in their work and they, they come to an interior designer because they know how to delegate and they know what their strengths are, what their Time is worth, you know, and where. Where, where to where to assign that time and value. And.

[A]

And in the uk, is there this feeling when it comes to becoming a decorator? Is there a feeling that it's a relatively easy industry to enter in the U.S. i think a lot of people are feeling it's almost too easy to become a decorator, and maybe we need to be more mindful of who we let in.

[C]

Okay. I think here you still have to prove yourself. You have to have something special. I mean, I feel like to be a successful designer, you have to come of it from some form of creative skill. Like my son, Ed has always been interested in this, but he's gone to art college, he's gone to the Royal College of Art. He's worked in photography, he's worked in lighting, he's worked in film. When he reaches a certain age, it would be a natural thing, but he's sort of put himself and learned in many different ways, different facets, and I think you need that breadth. You know, my skill comes from studying the form, the architectural form of furniture, and the architecture of furniture is extrapolated into building or building into furniture, whichever way you want to look at it. And then also by making all of these choices, constant choices of where you're buying and selling and choosing what's going to work and seeing what works, seeing what, how things fit, arranging a shop, placing things in different areas, doing exhibitions, seeing what works, you inevitably sort of see and what brings delight to people and what excites people. So it's a cumulative knowledge, but I think you need that. You need that rudimentary sort of grounding in the arts to get somewhere.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Max, I'm so thrilled to get to talk to you and even more excited that I will be seeing you in London in a week from now. And when the show comes out, we'll be celebrating your fabulous dining room. It's all going to come together, Max.

[B]

I feel certain.

[C]

Thank you, darling.

[A]

Yeah, I can't wait. Thank you so much for your time.

[C]

Okay, thank you.

[B]

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us [e-mail] where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings, and join our BoH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a [e-mail] if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicholaus and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you next week.