The couple behind Patina Farm on why great design comes from feelings, not rules

Summary

Business of Home Podcast: The Couple Behind Patina Farm on Why Great Design Comes from Feelings, Not Rules

Release Date: November 25, 2024
Host: Dennis Scully
Guests: Brooke and Steve Gianetti

In this enlightening episode of the Business of Home Podcast, host Dennis Scully engages in a captivating conversation with Brooke and Steve Gianetti, the dynamic couple behind the renowned Patina Farm. Through their unique blend of architecture, design, and a deep connection with nature, Brooke and Steve offer insightful perspectives on the evolving landscape of interior design, the importance of emotional resonance in their work, and the seamless integration of technology into their creative processes.

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1. Origins: How Brooke and Steve Met and Began Their Journey

Brooke and Steve Gianetti’s partnership is rooted in both personal and professional connections. Their story begins serendipitously at the Cheesecake Factory, where Brooke recounts her first encounter with Steve:

“I was still in college... I feel like I have to say something to that guy... six months later we were engaged. And six months after that we were married.” [03:09]

Their professional collaboration kicked off when Steve, an architect, sought Brooke’s design expertise for a client project. What started as a simple request to design children’s bedrooms swiftly expanded to designing entire homes, marking the inception of their joint venture.

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2. Transitioning Roles: From Architecture to Design

Initially, Brooke envisioned a career in law, drawn towards structured and analytical professions. However, her partnership with Steve led her into the world of interior design. Brooke explains:

“I am not totally comfortable with creativity. It feels like free fall to me. But I was more of the kind of the invoicer.” [05:35]

This balance between Steve’s architectural prowess and Brooke’s financial acumen established a robust foundation for their business, allowing them to navigate both creative and operational challenges seamlessly.

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3. Philosophy: Designing from Feelings Over Rules

A core tenet of Brooke and Steve’s approach is prioritizing emotional impact over rigid adherence to design rules. Steve elaborates on this philosophy:

“It became a more of an emotion based process than a visual process. What emotion are you trying to create when you walk somebody into a room?” [07:01]

This sentiment-driven approach encourages clients to envision the feelings and experiences a space will evoke, fostering a deeper connection and investment in the design process.

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4. Creating Patina Farm: A Living Portfolio

Patina Farm is not just their residence but a tangible manifestation of their design ethos. The farm harmoniously blends modern and antique elements, creating spaces that grow richer with time. Steve shares the inspiration behind the name and concept:

“We like things that grew better with age and felt like they told a story and had a history.” [08:11]

The farm showcases a unique mix of materials and styles, reflecting their belief in designing with stories and histories embedded within each element.

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5. Embracing Change: Moving from California to Tennessee

Frustrated by the stringent regulations in California and yearning for a lifestyle change, Brooke and Steve relocated to Tennessee. Brooke highlights the impact of this move:

“The idea of slowing down... having seasons and having changes and then appreciating the autumn leaves... feels like it's not forever.” [20:47]

This transition allowed them to immerse themselves more deeply in their community, open their store in Leipers Fork, and expand Patina Meadow, all while embracing the natural rhythms of a new environment.

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6. Leveraging Technology: Enhancing Creativity and Efficiency

Steve is a staunch advocate for integrating technology into the design process. Utilizing tools like Basecamp for project management and VR goggles for immersive presentations, they have revolutionized how they collaborate and engage with clients.

“I've always embraced it because it lets you live a life in the country with animals, but still be able to do big projects anywhere in the country or the world.” [39:19]

This embrace of technology not only streamlines their workflow but also enriches the client experience, making design more interactive and visually compelling.

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7. Maintaining Client Engagement: Keeping the Dream Alive

One of the Gianettis' key strengths lies in sustaining client enthusiasm throughout lengthy and complex projects. Steve emphasizes the importance of a compelling design that clients are emotionally invested in:

“You have to treat it like it already exists. And you have to keep thinking about it that way.” [28:45]

Brooke adds that tangible elements like fabric samples and antique pieces help clients remain connected to the evolving vision, ensuring sustained excitement and commitment.

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8. Rising to Prominence: From Blog to Architectural Digest

Their growing online presence, particularly through Brooke’s blog "Velvet and Linen," garnered significant attention, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic. This digital footprint eventually led to a feature in Architectural Digest alongside Jennifer Garner, propelling their recognition in the design community.

“We built Patina Farm, which had steel windows and wood windows and sheets of glass... and people really liked it.” [12:01]

This exposure validated their unique approach, blending personal lifestyle with professional design, and attracted a broader clientele seeking similar holistic and emotion-driven designs.

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9. The Future of Design: Embracing AI and Innovation

Steve discusses the transformative potential of artificial intelligence in the design industry. He views AI as a tool that can enhance creativity rather than replace it:

“AI... doesn't replace the creative process, it just accelerates it to an extent that people are not going to, aren't quite grasping yet.” [39:23]

Brooke concurs, emphasizing the irreplaceable human elements of emotion and authenticity that AI cannot replicate:

“I'm not sure AI can stick that in AI. I'm not sure that AI can... It's going to take a long while before it figures out the secret sauce of emotion.” [47:54]

Their forward-thinking approach underscores the importance of integrating technology while maintaining the human touch in design.

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10. Building Trust: The Pillar of Successful Client Relationships

Trust is paramount in Brooke and Steve’s client interactions. They believe that authenticity and genuine connection foster trust and streamline the design process:

“Being authentic... people connect with you in that way, that does garner trust.” [50:10]

Steve adds that sharing their real-life experiences and maintaining transparency ensures clients feel confident and aligned with their vision:

“They know us because the stuff that's out there isn't some manufactured idea of us trying to do something to get a job. It's really just what we do every day.” [51:36]

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11. Concluding Insights: The Essence of Emotion-Driven Design

Brooke and Steve Gianetti exemplify how intertwining personal passion, emotional depth, and technological innovation can redefine interior design. Their emphasis on designing from feelings, fostering authentic client relationships, and embracing the future of AI sets a benchmark for aspiring designers. As they continue to evolve and expand their endeavors, their story serves as an inspiring testament to the power of passion and purpose in shaping beautiful, meaningful spaces.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Brooke on Meeting Steve:
  “I was still in college... I feel like I have to say something to that guy.” [03:09]

• Brooke on Comfort with Numbers:
  “I am not totally comfortable with creativity. It feels like free fall to me.” [05:35]

• Steve on Emotion-Based Design:
  “It became a more of an emotion based process than a visual process.” [07:01]

• Steve on Patina Farm’s Inspiration:
  “We like things that grew better with age and felt like they told a story and had a history.” [08:11]

• Brooke on Embracing Seasons:
  “The idea of slowing down... having seasons and having changes and then appreciating the autumn leaves.” [20:47]

• Steve on Technology Integration:
  “I've always embraced it because it lets you live a life in the country with animals, but still be able to do big projects anywhere.” [39:19]

• Steve on Client Engagement:
  “You have to treat it like it already exists. And you have to keep thinking about it that way.” [28:45]

• Steve on AI's Role:
  “AI doesn't replace the creative process, it just accelerates it.” [39:23]

• Brooke on AI and Emotion:
  “I'm not sure AI can stick that in AI. I'm not sure that AI can... It’s going to take a long while before it figures out the secret sauce of emotion.” [47:54]

• Brooke on Authenticity and Trust:
  “Being authentic... people connect with you in that way, that does garner trust.” [50:10]

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Brooke and Steve Gianetti’s journey underscores the profound impact of integrating personal values, emotional intelligence, and technological advancements in the realm of interior design. Their story is not just about creating beautiful spaces but about fostering environments that enhance the quality of life and resonate deeply with those who inhabit them.

Transcript

[Dennis Scully]

This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking to leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guests this week are Brooke and Steve Gianetti. Steve is an architect and Brooke a designer, but together the two of them have done a little bit of everything from opening a shop in small town Tennessee to creating homes for a list celebrities to caring for a menagerie of sheep, donkeys, goats and highland cattle on their farm, Patina Meadow. I spoke with Brooke and Steve about how working with animals informs both their lives and their business, how they keep clients excited over the course of a long project, and why designers should be curious about new technology, not fearful. This podcast is sponsored by Liloi, maker of rugs, pillows and wall art for the thoughtfully layered home. This fall at High Point, Liloi introduced a breadth of new collections for all styles, all aesthetics and all price points. Visit liloirugs.com to see what's new and sign up for a trade account that's L o l o I rugs.com follow them on Instagram and TikTok loloyrugs. This podcast is also sponsored by Annie Selkie. Rooms may come in different shapes and sizes, but that doesn't mean you have to settle for a rug with a so so fit. Annie Selkie, known for their best in class, Dash and Albert rugs offer more than 140 custom sized rugs to suit not only any space, but also every style from farmhouse to coastal and everything in between. Whether you opt for hand tufted wool, durable indoor, outdoor or natural jute, Annie Selke's custom size rugs will always give you a flawless fit down to the inch. To learn more, visit aniselke.com that's a n n I e s e l k e dot com and now on with the show. So where does this story begin, Steve, do we start with you becoming an architect and that path? Is that a good place to begin?

[Steve Gianetti]

Yeah, I mean I'd been doing it for quite a while just doing architecture on my own. Kind of worked for a number of people and then worked out of my house and then had a client where I needed some interior design done and approached Brooke with the idea that she could help me out because the lady only needed a couple of kids bedrooms to be designed. Well, of course Brooke ended up doing the whole house and that started it all.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and take me back to how the two of you first met.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Yes, yes, I picked him up at the Cheesecake Factory.

[Dennis Scully]

I definitely Want to hear that story?

[Brooke Gianetti]

I was still in college. I was going to ucla. I was actually living at home. I was out for drinks with a friend and we stopped into the Cheesecake Factory and Steve was there. He kept smiling at me during the whole time. And then when it was time for me to leave, I walked by and he actually said goodbye to me and I said goodbye. And I actually got into the car with my friend and I said to her, you know, I don't know what the this is, but I feel like I have to say something to that guy. And so I went back into the bar and asked him if he'd be interested in going out sometime. And it was a Thursday night. And he said sure. And being very suave and very, you know, cool about things, he said, how about Friday? Which was the next day. I told him I was busy, but I gave him my number. And he picked me up at my parents house on Saturday, on Saturday morning. And we spent the whole day together. Six months later we were engaged. And six months after that we were married. And they said it wouldn't last, but married over 37 years. And it's been actually really fantastic, beyond what I ever imagined or could have imagined back then, but apparently we imagined it along the way.

[Dennis Scully]

That seems so much a part of the story that you've woven over all these years is these walks and these dreams that you shared together. Brooke, what, what were you doing originally, before Steve pulled you into a job to work on some children's rooms?

[Brooke Gianetti]

I originally thought I was going to be a lawyer or some sort of professional in that respect. But when I met Steve and I immediately became his partner in business, I started doing his invoicing and always had more of a mathematical mind, you know, it was very comforting to me. I am not totally comfortable with creativity. It feels, feels like free fall to me. But I was more of the kind of the invoicer. And you know, accountant Steve has never written a check in his entire life.

[Dennis Scully]

What a luxury.

[Steve Gianetti]

Yes, yes.

[Brooke Gianetti]

So, yeah, so that's what I always thought I would, I would do. And I. And then when we had kids, I was, you know, CEO of, of our house. You know, I just took care of everything that was there. Yeah. And his business. But then I also, you know, I would design with him our own houses. And then I actually, people would come to our house and ask me to design their homes, you know, friends of ours. And so that's kind of where I became a little bit more comfortable with that.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and interestingly, Brooke, you Write in your most recent book about the design school decision. And you wrote about how Steve, if I understand, was cautious or hesitant for you to go to design school for fear, since it seemed to come so naturally for you, that the structure of a formal education might somehow spoil something for you.

[Brooke Gianetti]

And it probably would have, because that's where I'm most comfortable. Right. I would rely on that. You know, if they gave me a formula on how to do it, I'd probably be like, oh, okay, I'll just do that. You know, if you gave me rules, I'd probably follow them.

[Steve Gianetti]

That was her greatest strength, is just feeling things. And I think it's a lot of things that people lose. You get it educated out of you, your feelings.

[Dennis Scully]

Did any of that have anything to do with your school experience, Steve?

[Steve Gianetti]

A little bit, yeah. I realized I was sort of stuck in this rule based thought and working with her. She was more like, oh, that doesn't look so good. I don't really like that. And so you had to get back to feeling stuff more than puzzling through it. It became a more of an emotion based process than a visual process. What emotion are you trying to create when you walk somebody into a room? How does it make you feel? Was the main thing. Not. I'll get 100 pictures from magazines and put a board together and make it look like this thing.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Which also made it hard to think about writing that first book. Because, you know, if you're writing a book about how you do this or why you do what you do, if you just say, I just feel it. It's a very short book.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and I'm curious, even the whole. The business seems so centered around patina. This word, what all of this calls to mind. And I wonder what that means and what you came to build on that.

[Steve Gianetti]

It actually came from the first book because we needed a title for the book and we went to a. We would go to swap meets and we could. We'd collect stuff just for fun on the weekends. So we put all the stuff I liked on the table and all the stuff she liked on the table. She had fancy stuff. I had leather and brass and old gears. She had gilt and linen and velvet and things like that. And we tried to find a thread that linked these things together. And the thread was, we like things that grew better with age and felt like they told a story and had a history. And antiques were better because you could see life in them. You could see where a kid had chewed on the corner of a table, or you could See where the paint had worn off, where people opened the drawer, and it became the visual representation of the idea of designing from your feelings as opposed to designing visually.

[Dennis Scully]

How did the University of Maryland look upon designing from your feelings and everything you just outlined, Steve?

[Steve Gianetti]

They weren't that into it. They almost beat it out of me, you know, so it was interesting because I had such a different background, because I grew up around very ornamental classical design, but also around craft, where guys actually put stuff up. And I was always drawing upon a much wider range of probably experience, visual experiences than the other guys. You know, we would work out the Monticello. I'd go down and put up crown molding or help fix something down there, and then come back and be expected to design some modern building. And, you know, I'd toss a little something in there. You know, they always kind of thought it was a little funny.

[Dennis Scully]

You toss in a little Thomas Jefferson.

[Steve Gianetti]

Here and there just because there was so much cool stuff to draw from. The classical guys think it's heresy to do modern stuff, and the modern guys think it's heresy to put classical stuff in there. And when a guy takes both of them and smashes them together, then you got nobody on your side because you're insulting both ends of the thing. It made perfect sense to me. But not many other people.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, so in the early days when you were getting jobs, Steve, I'm curious what was attracting people to you, and what were they seeing of your work, or how did you win clients?

[Steve Gianetti]

Yeah, I mean, the early stuff was more traditional, and I could do it because I grew up around it, and I knew enough of the classical language to make stuff look good. And then after a while, I just. I got a little tired of doing, you know, classical colonial houses. And one of the reasons we built Patina Farm was to explore something completely different. I started looking at the Beta plus books and all the Belgian influences, and they were doing a nice job of. A lot of them seemed like renovating old buildings and making them feel new and fresh. So Brooke and I sort of had the. Had the same idea for different reasons, to build this place where we could show what we were really interested in. The field of dreams moment. If you build it, they will come. And so we built Patina Farm, which had steel windows and wood windows and sheets of glass and farm buildings and old Spanish stuff and ruins and vintage fireplaces and a shower that looked like the Apple Store was just made of sheets of glass. And people really liked it.

[Dennis Scully]

We should explain. So Patina Farm, which is A beautiful coffee table book. But was your home that you created. And I don't know if originally you dreamt of all the animals and all of the floral.

[Steve Gianetti]

I think Brooke probably had that in her head from the beginning.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, I mean, tell me, Brooke, I mean, is that sort of the vision that you. That you had?

[Brooke Gianetti]

Yes, it was. I mean, when we lived in Santa Monica, I already knew that I wanted a different kind of lifestyle and was kind of morphing our life in Santa Monica more towards that life, you know, with. We got chickens and put them in our side yard in Santa Monica. We dug up our front yard and turned it into raised planter beds. And it gave me a sense of calm and made me really happy. So when we started talking about what was going to be at Patina Farm, I definitely saw animals, even to the point where we went. It was also kind of evolved. Like, when we moved to Patina Farm, which is in Ojai, California, we went to the Ventura County Fair, and we saw these miniature donkeys. And, you know, I thought, wow, they would be perfect.

[Dennis Scully]

And how can you see miniature donkeys and not want to bring them home? Right, exactly.

[Brooke Gianetti]

So that's where it really all started. And then you just kind of dip your toe in, and next thing you know, you're waist deep, and next thing you know, now you're up to your neck.

[Steve Gianetti]

Highland cows.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and what do you really think? I mean, you mentioned earlier, Brooke, that it was giving you a sense of calm or peace. What do you really think was drawing you towards having all these animals and what they came to represent for you.

[Brooke Gianetti]

A connection to nature and being more in sync with nature. They live in the moment. You need to live in the moment. When you're with an animal, they can tell if you're thinking about something else. Something can go terribly wrong if you're not there. And just seeing the way they live, the way they interact, is truly inspiring. And, you know, you just kind of feel it when you're with them. You know, it's very. It's very soothing. It's very calming, and it's outside yourself. You know, it's this idea that you are taking care of them, you know, which is wonderful as well. Gets you out of your, you know, narcissism. Sure.

[Dennis Scully]

No, no, no, I hear you. We all can get very wrapped up in our own heads. And as you say, it's a great deal more challenging today to stay in the moment. And animals make you. Make you do that in a wonderful way.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Absolutely. Gets you off a screen for sure. And they don't care what's going on. Although they do look adorable on screen. They don't care. They don't care if they're influencers or not.

[Dennis Scully]

So you built this incredible patina farm and suddenly all these people see this place and want you to help recreate, I assume, elements of, if not all of the components that you were living with. Animal wise, they certainly came to love the look and feel. And so did that become the big driver for the kind of work that you suddenly found yourself doing?

[Steve Gianetti]

Yeah, it became a lot more about that. Both the sort of architectural look, but also the lifestyle we got. I got quite a big job here in Nashville because the owner went to the house and wanted that sort of lifestyle and it started this whole journey. So it worked from the standpoint of realigning the work with our values because it became a bit of a filter. The kind of people who would want to live with animals were the kind of people we liked. You know, you could tell what somebody was like of how they treated the goats. You know, you could just sort of. It was like a little client, little client filter. And it became a showcase for not only designing the house, but the interiors and the gardens. And people love the idea of just only having to deal with one group of people, me and Brooke, to do their whole world. And so, so many jobs came through that. So I would be doing furniture plans as I was drawing floor plans, and Brooke would be picking materials as we were doing preliminary design. So the whole house gelled all at once.

[Dennis Scully]

And did you have to. Did you have to scale up in terms of a team to help support all of these efforts when clients started to come to you?

[Steve Gianetti]

We actually scaled down when we moved from LA to. I had an office when I was in LA, maybe had 10 people working for me. But one of the things moving to Ojai was how do I have a completely remote office? It was completely remote before. Remote was cool. We use a couple of technological things we use. So everything runs through a program called Basecamp, which is basically a collaborative framework for everybody to be able to see everything that's going on all the time on my staff. And all the clients can watch everything in real time. And so it made. I could design at 4 o'clock in the morning. You know, I'd send it to my people to draft it or build the models. You know, they, you know, then it would go right to the owners and everything could happen faster because we weren't trying to get everybody in the same room to do something. We could work, we could work together, you know, kind of all asynchronously to create this thing. And it actually ended up being a much better way to work for me.

[Brooke Gianetti]

We never had a dream of doing thousands of projects, you know, we never had a dream of having, you know, a huge operation. We like to go deep, you know, into a project and just do, you know, a few really great things and do it that way than kind of just being a manager of a bunch of other people. You know, it's again, that kind of idea that if it just turns out that you have a ton of projects and you have a bunch of different project managers, all you're doing is going, you know, you kind of lose the vision, you know, it just gets diluted, you know, you're not, you got it. You have to have eyes on it. It has to be controlled all the time.

[Dennis Scully]

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[Steve Gianetti]

Well, part of it became Brooks blog got very popular, especially during COVID and we tried to do visits to the farm, you know, just small events with 20 people doing a tour. Well, the homeowners association and the city of Ojai did not like that. We needed, you know, the California, I don't know, all these crazy rules that they had. And we just got sick of the rules of dealing with it and said, well, we're going to go someplace where they don't have so many rules. And at the same time I was working on this project in below Nashville, out in the countryside and I would, you know, FaceTime Brooke from the drives or FaceTime her from a bar, looking at an open mic night and you know, in the little town Leapers Fork where we actually End up having our store now. And we started talking about it, and then she came out and we drove down these roads right near our house. And it was like, this is. This starts to feel more like home than home does.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Also, being a California girl, I also just kind of fell in love with the idea of having these seasons, you know, never had seasons. And along that. That idea of slowing down, you know, when you're in California, you go kind of from one 75 degree perfect day to another one. Yes. You know, but, you know, I know that sounds like, you know, that's a terrible problem to have. It was wonderful. We loved the weather in California, but the idea of having seasons and having changes and then appreciating the autumn leaves, which is what we're having right now, which is spectacular. And also it gives you a sense of the passage of time, which I think in this part of our life is really important to me to understand that it's not forever. You know, when you're younger, it seems like it's just forever, and it's not. And California has a tendency to make you feel like it's forever because it's the same all the time. And this, this, you know, there's winter, there's, you know, these. And you realize that things pass.

[Dennis Scully]

No, indeed. And fall is actually my favorite season of the. Of the year. And it's spectacular. And the colors and the change in the air and everything about it. I am mad about fall. So the thought of being forced to live in Los Angeles and have to experience the same weather every day, that's just torture. Torture. But Steve mentioned how your blog had become so popular and so many people wanted to show up and experience. So let's talk about your blog just a little bit, because that did become another way that so many people discovered you and sort of fell in love with this lifestyle that the two of you were creating.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. So I started my Velvet and linen blog in 2009. It became quite popular to the point where it kind of started overtaking our life. And I decided I needed to slow down. And then, you know, Instagram came up, and so I started doing Instagram because it felt more manageable. I still named it Velvet and Linen. I named my blog velvetlinen because it kind of described my design philosophy, kind of that high and low and that mix and everything like that. Little did I know that, you know, it would be, you know, so many years later, 15 years later, and I'd still be, you know, the Velvet. You know, a lot of people don't even know my name. They just know me as Velvet.

[Dennis Scully]

You're the velvet linen girl. Sure.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Exactly. Exactly. So that's kind of how it started. And then it really. When the pandemic happened and everybody ended up being stuck inside, a lot of people discovered us through Facebook and Instagram and started watching these videos we were doing of our animals because it was a way for people to connect to that lifestyle when they're just sitting stuck in their houses. And it was a wonderful thing to be able to bring that to people. So that's kind of how it all started. And it's been wonderful. But yes, so we wanted to kind of have a more in real world experience and weren't able to. And so it's been very exciting to kind of explore that here in Tennessee. First with the opportunity to open our store in Leipers Fork, which we also named Patina Home and Garden. And that has been wonderful, meeting so many people and becoming part of a community so quickly after moving here. And then after building our farm, more Patina Meadow now and having a place to gather here at the farm, exploring what that looks like. And with Layla also, because our daughter has now become an integral part of this all.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah. Well, one of the things that I'm imagining has also perhaps changed the tempo for you both a little bit. So in the midst of all of this comes this Architectural Digest cover with Jennifer Garner and your. And this incredible home that you've created for her. And she tells this charming story. Brooke, I think you call it Steve's Monkey Trick, where Jennifer Garner pours her dreams of a home out to Steve and magically he comes back with a beautiful watercolor and. And suddenly that becomes the home. And all of her dreams realized, apparently. Is that how it all went down?

[Steve Gianetti]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Brooke Gianetti]

That pretty much sums it up. Yes.

[Steve Gianetti]

We had done a couple of projects with her, different kinds of things, so I knew enough about her. But I kind of pick up on people and what they want and just kind of walk them through a story. And my monkey trick is I. I see the house finished as they're talking about it to the point many times where when I show up to an empty site, it's a little weird because I expect the house to be there because I visualized it so completely. So she had this dream of this place, and so I said, you know, we could make it feel like your home, like your childhood home, like an old farmhouse, because she had a desire to kind of slow down as well, but she had to stay in la. You Start to develop a, like a rule based approach to it. Like, these are all the things I want to feel when I'm in the place. It wants to feel cozy. I want to be connected to the outside. I want a fabulous kitchen with a fireplace in it. So there were all these pieces that started to come together and I just started to see it and I did a couple of sketches for her and she sort of held onto this one sketch throughout the whole process, going through permits and all that. Just saying, I know it's going to be great because I can see it right here.

[Dennis Scully]

And when the magazine comes out, does this huge explosion of awareness and interest happen in your world? Tell me the effects. Tell me what happens for you.

[Steve Gianetti]

Yeah, I mean, we got a lot of calls on it. There was a lot of people who reached out who thought it was you thought it was a great piece because it was so lovely with the video that she did and everything like that.

[Dennis Scully]

Takes you through on a tour of the whole thing. Yeah, sing sings your praises.

[Steve Gianetti]

I know it was lovely, but we're so out in the middle of the country. It's not like you're going to run into people at a cocktail party going, oh, yeah, I saw you in the ad. Getting published, like that has never been the goal for us. It has always been almost just a byproduct. I mean, she was the one that brought up wanting to put her house in it because she liked it so much.

[Dennis Scully]

Recently when we were talking, Steve, you talked about helping clients to hang on through what you know is going to be a lengthy and challenging process. And you've both talked about trying to get people so bought into this dream and this vision and not just of what their home is ultimately going to look like, but. But what their lifestyle is going to become as a result of this home. And I'm curious how you keep people engaged. How do you keep them pursuing that dream, seeing that vision, holding that lovely watercolor that you've done for them and say, oh, when you know the custom sofa is going to take 20 weeks and heck, the permitting might take couple of years, all of that, I mean, how do you keep them going?

[Steve Gianetti]

It always seems to me that you have to get to a design that is so compelling that they just want it, that they just want to live there. And I can tell when it, you know, it's close, but it's not there. They're just not excited about it. And you need that excitement in the beginning. And what it does is you draw, you build this image of it in the distance. They have to sort of treat it like it already exists. And you have to keep thinking about it that way. And I ask people to imagine their day in the house when we're designing it. I don't really think about it. Like, think about this room. You know, it's. Think about a Saturday, a slow Saturday morning with the kids. Where are you? How does it work? And so what it does is it builds muscle memory of a house that doesn't quite exist, that you really want to live in. Like this dream that you've had that's going to be so compelling that it's going to be worth slogging through it. And occasionally, when things are going a little slow, you might do a couple of sketches, kind of bring them along. You might do some better renderings. You know, if things are getting a little tough, Brooke will pull a whole room of fabrics together that people can.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Touch, or finding a great, you know, old mantel or something, you know, that gives you a sense of what, you know, again, that kind of attaching to the history of an old piece. Or maybe it's just a great old antique we found. And that can kind of set a tone for a room. And that even gets you, you know, a client's excited about what that space is going to feel like. So there are kind of ways to get people moving towards what will be versus being kind of stuck in the soup of what is.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah, yeah. I ask in part because, as we've talked about in the past, things are taking longer. Things seem to be costing so much more. And having to explain that or re. Explain that to clients as you go along seems tougher, honestly, than it's ever been, really.

[Steve Gianetti]

Part of the reason for getting out of California was the process was. Just got more onerous all the time, and it just. You didn't want to spend two years getting a permit to build something or three years getting a permit in the California coast to do something.

[Brooke Gianetti]

My dog is snoring. Sorry.

[Steve Gianetti]

So it is. It is something. And I think it's setting expectations for people so that they're not disappointed that, you know, you just need to tell people the truth. People can handle the truth, and if the truth is too much for them, they shouldn't be doing it.

[Dennis Scully]

But you do have to level with people, as you say. Yeah, you listen.

[Steve Gianetti]

Yeah, yeah. This is what it's going to. This is. This is probably what you're looking at at a certain point. You know, you're going to get really frustrated. You know, we'll help you through it we've done them, you know, done enough of them to help you through the process. And I think for any designer, it's a good way to think about it. They all finish. Never had one that's still under construction. Eventually they get them done.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, it seems as if it's one of the hardest parts of all of it too today. And I talk to so many designers who just talk about all of the different ways that, as you were saying, they try to reengage the client or amuse the client or just keep them keeping their eye on the prize, so to speak.

[Brooke Gianetti]

It's hard because you are often the middleman right between your client and the guy making your sofa and you're being promised something and when their promise isn't, they don't live up to their promise, then you don't live up to yours. So it's really important to have relationships with, you know, with all of your people, you know, and make sure that it doesn't happen and what do you do when it does, you know, and to make sure that you are very transparent with your clients. I think that's very important to have communication and be very transparent.

[Dennis Scully]

So tell me this recent book which we've talked about, this rule breaking book, Steve, that you've come out with, Patina Homes and Gardens, that might have alienated some people who have notions about how design books should look and feel and tell people what's so different about. About this book who haven't had the thrill of getting to see it for themselves yet.

[Steve Gianetti]

Well, part of it is this is our fifth book and the first few we did with graphic designers helping us. And then once he fired me for making too many changes, then we ended up doing them sort of more on our own. But part of what you have to think about when doing any sort of design is what's the. You go back to the first principle. What are these books about? And the book is about dropping people into a world and taking them on a tour of the house. And it really isn't like I'm putting pictures on a white sheet of paper. It's like I'm opening the thing and I'm walking into another room. To me, it's like walking around the house. And then here's a detail I've zoomed in and now I'm looking at a little thing on a shelf. And that's the way you experience a house. So basically it's a book of a story and a tour, a visual tour. The idea is Brooke wrote it all and the Text walks you through the story. The book is sort of based on a theme of transforming your life through a dream of a new house.

[Dennis Scully]

I wonder if that's what we undersell sometimes in interior design. I wonder if the design industry doesn't speak to this. We're not just building your home, we're building this new life for you. And I'm imagining, here you are living with all these animals. I'm imagining your heart rate's probably been lowered, you've probably got lower blood pressure. You're probably right.

[Brooke Gianetti]

You're just.

[Dennis Scully]

I mean. Right. All joking aside, I mean, I'm imagining like you're living healthier, happier lives because you're close to nature. You're looking out the window. The donkeys are right there. The. The goats. Right.

[Steve Gianetti]

I mean, exactly right. You're not selling somebody furniture. You're not selling somebody a picture. You're not selling somebody square footage. You're selling somebody this change in their life, this change in the experience of everyday life. And I think the more that designers can think about it that way and the more they can say it's going to make you feel this way. That, to me, is the magic of these places.

[Dennis Scully]

We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Leloi, whose fall introductions for all styles included new collections from collaborators Amber Lewis, Magnolia Home by Joanna Gaines and Rifle Paper company, plus newly added one of a kind rugs, pillows, and wall art. Visit theloyrugs.com to see them all. That's L O l o I ruggs.com and @the loyrugs on Instagram and TikTok. And now back to the show. So the business seems to be so many things today with the shop, and there seems to be an E commerce component. And Yes, I mean, is it all. How do you view it? Do you view it all as parts of the whole? Or is it. I mean, tell me how you see the vast operations.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Yeah, I think it was kind of like what I said to you about design being kind of more a part of your life than. Rather than. I mean, this whole thing is our life. And now that our kids are involved, that has expanded what we share with, you know, our community. And once they get involved and once they become your partners, you're not the one steering everything all the time. I've given Layla a lot of leeway on what kind of pottery classes she wants to offer, what kind of classes in general, like, she just had. She's very into biodynamic farming, which is kind of a holistic approach to. To it. To farming. And it's like, she always says it's like organic on steroids, but not really steroids because we don't use anything like that. But, you know, so she just did a class, a biodynamic class. It's like how to make these different biodynamic preparations. And it's very like in a horn, and you do this manure and you have to bury it for six months, and it's a whole thing. But, you know, she still sold out the class. I mean, it sold out. And people came and they were so excited. A couple of women came to the store afterwards and they said, oh, we have to take off our shoes because we've been standing in manure with Layla for a few hours.

[Steve Gianetti]

The things that we tried to have a master plan on, like having a furniture liner or like all the regular designery stuff.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Steve Gianetti]

Never seemed to work out. The things where it just. You sort of fell into it and you followed your passion for something, were the things that always felt more right. There's a thing where Brooke and I walk every morning and just talk about stuff, and it's very important to get a sense of what's going right and what's not going right and be open to strange new possibilities.

[Dennis Scully]

Now, Steve, one of the things I'm curious about with you is that you're engaged and wildly interested, if I understand correctly, in artificial intelligence and the changes that are coming at more and more of a rapid pace. And I know you think that AI is going to have a huge impact on not only our industry, but on the whole world, thanks in part to your hero, Elon Musk.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Absolutely.

[Dennis Scully]

So tell me how you think about all of that.

[Steve Gianetti]

It's interesting because I live in an 1850s log cabin draw exclusively on an iPad, and build everything in 3D models that we look at through VR goggles. So it is, I guess, kind of like the architecture. You're drawing from all the parts of time that make it interesting, and you just have to use the tools that you have. There's no reason to do. If I can make. We recently did a hotel remodel concept, and, you know, we put it through a VR engine called TwinMotion to make a 3D model look like an evening photograph. And it's incredibly compelling and drew the client right into it, and they felt it. And I've done. I needed, like, a quick sketch to show a client of building a little compound of guest houses around a courtyard in a lake. And so I just prompted ChatGPT or Midjourney at the time to just describe the thing I wanted to show them. And you could show them this idea, you know, the idea that I can speak something into existence and soon to be able to speak a movie into existence or speak a home into existence. I think everybody has to know it's coming and embrace it because it doesn't replace the creative process, it just accelerates it to an extent that people are not going to, aren't quite grasping yet. So, you know, I have one, you know, one hand in John Singer Sargent looking at painting and another hand watching AI videos of robots. And it's interesting. I mean, in a couple of years you'll be seeing robots on job sites doing stuff. So it's going to be quite the future. It's going to be quite a thing coming up. I think people worry about it or think it's going to take my job or think it's going to do something different. I've always embraced it because it lets you live a life in the country with animals, but still be able to do big projects anywhere in the country or the world.

[Dennis Scully]

And do clients respond well to it. So you share all of this technology with them. You put the goggles on them, for instance.

[Steve Gianetti]

Yeah, they love it. I mean, we'll walk people through an iPad model. I mean all of the. I don't do sets of drawings anymore. We build a model that generates the drawings. So you're just walking into the room and looking at the walls and then you can zoom in and see all the details in all the cabinets. And it's something I've been trying to do. I always have a. I was always a couple of years ahead of the tech in what I was trying to create with it. And now the computers are finally fast enough that we can actually walk people around a 60 acre site, build the entire site, put the house on it, walk into the house, see a piece of furniture, have a lamp on the table, do a rendering with the lamps turned on and the lights glowing at night and sunset and sheep outside, don't forget the sheep.

[Dennis Scully]

An important element.

[Steve Gianetti]

Yeah, it drops people into that world because as soon as you engage that imagination, that sort of being there, you get really a buy in from people. The client that I'm doing a house near here on 60 acres and the guy said he just never had anybody that could, you know, I'll sketch stuff. At first, basically the same idea just by hand, you know, to do it. But then I built a 3D model of it and could walk him around and was like, you know, he could just be on a vacation looking through the model, thinking about it. He said he just spent several days walking around the house, just imagining himself there. And that's what you want clients to do because that's.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes, that.

[Steve Gianetti]

That gets them bought in. All of a sudden that's their life is in this house.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, I wonder staying with that. Steve and Brooke, I'm curious your thoughts about this as well. So often this conversation comes up about what else can designers do to convince people that they need to work with an interior designer, that they need someone to help them with this process. I was talking with a designer the other day who said, if you've ever done a 10,000 square foot home on your own, you know that you need help. You need the assistance of it. Can these tools, Steve, be one of the compelling reasons to work with a professional? All that they can show you, all that they can outline for you of what this could be?

[Steve Gianetti]

I think so. It's easy as a client to get lost in the minutia of something. How do I pick a rug? When we create these models, I'll scan a photograph of the rug, drop the rug into the model, you'll see it in the space, and you begin to create a digital version of the real world. And it, all of a sudden, it, it makes every decision. Live in a space that's real. And as an, as a designer, your job is to see the whole picture. Because clients are often too hung up on one little thing because they don't. They can't see the project through time or can't see the whole picture of everything.

[Brooke Gianetti]

I think the thing that designers have a gift for also is, you know, what comes with all this technology also is a glut of information. Right. Which I think as an individual, if you don't have somebody like a designer to help you kind of guide through all of this information, you can drown in it. You know, there's so much out there that you can, you know, you don't know what kind of choices to make or anything. So I think having somebody who's able to edit and guide you through a process like that becomes even more key.

[Steve Gianetti]

Also what you're doing as a designer is you have a point of view that someone is attracted to. Basically a filter on the world, right? There's a algorithm you've built, speaking in tech, right. That has selected this world out of the million colors and the million selections and the million fabrics and created this thing that makes you feel a certain way. And a client who sees something and feels something has to understand that they like the thing that you did. We always say, you know, you like Bettina Meadow because you had nothing to do with it. Right. Trust us, we know what we're doing. We can help you through the process. Well, listen, we want to make it your house, but we've done 100 houses and we can really make it work. And I have clients all the time. They keep making suggestions and they keep getting hung up and they go down rabbit holes and realize that they should have just done what I had recommended in the first place.

[Brooke Gianetti]

They always come back that's. We have a client who just always tells that story about Steve, you know, that he would. They would constantly kind of second guess Steve and then realize that they would come back to the first thing he suggested. And then the second house we did for them, they just said, you know, we're not going to question anymore. Just do what you want. But I do also think that AI, as good as it is or as good as it will be, I'm not sure. I think it's going to take a long while before it figures out the secret sauce of emotion, if it ever can. I think there's a part of humanity, like Steve said he didn't want me to go to school because he didn't want to take that out of me. I'm not sure that AI, they can stick that in AI. I'm not sure. I think that AI can learn the formula of who Brooke Giannetti is. I'm not sure that they can. You know, I think it'll be a little dead around the eyes.

[Steve Gianetti]

You just have to try stuff. You have to be inquisitive about the future. You have to not be worried that your job is going away. You have to say, hey, this could be something cool.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Yeah, the world is always changing. You got to learn how to pivot.

[Dennis Scully]

Got to pivot, got to evolve, got to keep up with it.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Absolutely.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah. Yeah. I wonder, in closing, related to that so often to outsiders, this industry can seem so complex and overwhelming. And I wonder if there was one thing, if there was a magic wand you could wave that would change one thing and make it easier or better, what would it be?

[Steve Gianetti]

I'd get rid of permits.

[Dennis Scully]

I thought that might be your answer, Steve, coming off of all the work in California.

[Steve Gianetti]

Yeah, I built a house in Maine. They took the plans down to the city and the guy said, great, let's build it. That was it. It was over the counter for a 7,000 square foot house, it's unnecessary. And then the rest of it is what? I wonder if AI could help with the process. The design process is fun. Coming up with the room, doing that, but the tracking all of every piece of furniture through every process I know is the bane of any interior designer's existence. Somebody will crack it.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Steve and I one time went to a lecture about the speed of trust. Also, I think trust is key in the design process. It's the thing that makes things go quicker and stops any sort of friction. You've got to interview each other. You've got to make sure that all of the parts you trust, the contractor, the client trusts you both, and that's what makes things flow.

[Steve Gianetti]

Yeah. And that everybody gets aligned on a vision and everybody's sharing it and trying to get there for the same reason. It makes a difference between a project that's great and a project that's a struggle. And it's important to get that time up front in getting that alignment together for every project that we've ever done.

[Dennis Scully]

And what have you learned has been the best way to establish that trust or to build that trust? Or is it time proving yourself?

[Brooke Gianetti]

Well, I think that, again, that's the reason why we share our life and we share our design philosophy, why we've written books and all of that, because it does garner trust. It does support that people know where we're coming from. You know, it's funny. I don't really think about things, you know, being authentic. You know, you're just authentic because you are. You know, that's the definition of authenticity. Right. But just being yourself allows people to feel comfortable, and when they connect with you in that way, that does garner trust. That does, you know, support a connection of trust.

[Steve Gianetti]

And I think it's that they know us because the stuff that's out there isn't some manufactured idea of us trying to do something to get a job. It's really just what we do every day. It's Brooke playing with the animals. It's me, you know, figuring stuff out for people. You just have to figure out who you are as a designer, as a person, share that. And I think the rest of the rest of the stuff will follow because you need to be able to be kind of vibrating at the same level, be on the same wavelength with the client. And I think it's the best way to do it. You know, they. You just have to know each other as humans and get the sense where you really like each other and trust each other's instincts and really listen to what people are saying and see how.

[Dennis Scully]

They respond to those goats.

[Steve Gianetti]

Exactly right. They don't like the goats.

[Dennis Scully]

They're out if they don't like the goats. These are not clients that we want to be spending any more time with. That's if I were to ask, you.

[Brooke Gianetti]

Want to pet my goat? Would your answer be yes or no?

[Dennis Scully]

You're adding and what and what is wrong with you if you don't want to pet that goat? Right. That is an easy disqualifier. More designers should have the goat test and they would be able to use that well. It is such a pleasure to get to spend time with both of you. You're so generous to make the time to speak with me and I've enjoyed it immensely and I thank you.

[Brooke Gianetti]

It's our pleasure. Absolutely our pleasure.

[Steve Gianetti]

Thanks so much. It was great talking to you.

[Dennis Scully]

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us [e-mail] where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings, and join our BOH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a [e-mail] if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicholaus and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.