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Business of Home Podcast
The sisters behind Flora Soames on the key to English style
01:00:46
The sisters behind English fabric brand Flora Soames share their story
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- [00:04]
Dennis Scully
This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guests this week are the duo behind fabric brand, Flora Soames. Flora herself and her sister Gemma Soames. Great granddaughters of Winston Churchill, the two grew up in an English country house full of China, chintz and family heirloom. After school they each followed their own paths, but eventually two personal tragedies brought them back together. Now Flora designs textiles while also running her own acclaimed decorating firm, while Gemma handles the operations of what has become a fast growing fabric business. I spoke with them about working together as sisters, why they're expanding in the US market, and why the key to British style is mixing the ordinary with the extraordinary. This podcast is sponsored by Hector Finch Lighting. For more than 30 years, Hector Finch has been making British manufactured decorative lighting for the design community worldwide. The brand is known for clean lines, a less is more philosophy and impeccable craftsmanship. Working with the finest European techniques and materials, mouth blown glass, hand thrown ceramics and alabaster, Hector Finch produces high specification lighting beloved by designers around the globe. Hector Finch is available in all 50 states and is represented in all major North American markets. And their dedicated team is on hand to discuss customizations and deliver a friendly personal service tailored to the needs of designers. Visit hectorfinch.com and follow Hector Finch Lighting on Instagram. This podcast is sponsored by Laloy. This month, Laloy is hosting a slate of can't miss events at High Point Market, including a book signing for Amy Astley, Editor in Chief of Architectural Digest, and a keynote panel with House Beautiful's Joe Salt and laloy collaborators Amber Lewis, Anna Bond, Julia Markham, Jean Stouffer and a brand new partner. Learn more@laloirugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and follow Laloi Ruggs on Instagram and TikTok. And now on with the show.
- [02:40]
I, in the interest of full and frank disclosure, do not get along terribly well with my sister. So I the thought of actually running a business with my sister, an impossibility.
- [02:52]
Okay.
- [02:53]
That could never happen. So in a way I'm a little envious. I'm a little.
- [02:57]
Yeah.
- [02:58]
I feel like I wish I could have the relationship that I'm. That I'm guessing the two of you have so.
- [03:03]
Flora Soames
Well, we're really thrilled to speak to that and it's our first interview together, sort of cementing Gemma's involvement in the business. You know, it's a path we're sort of navigating day to day. But I think, yeah, to be able to speak to that is really, really interesting. I mean, I sit on the edge of my seat when I see husband and wife being interviewed together. I'm absolutely riveted by that one.
- [03:28]
Dennis Scully
Well, so how did it come to be that you and Gemma are working together?
- [03:34]
Flora Soames
It's a relatively recent thing in the sort of formalized sense that it works now. Gemma and I are incredibly close. We always have been. We were growing up as children. We coincidentally both went to Edinburgh University. I think in terms of Gemma's involvement in the business, it's probably easier if I sort of go back to the beginning, if I may.
- [04:01]
Dennis Scully
How far back do you want to go, Flora?
- [04:03]
Flora Soames
I know, well, yeah, maybe, you know, the childhood tantrums can follow later and there's definitely a place.
- [04:12]
Dennis Scully
Can't wait to get into that.
- [04:13]
Flora Soames
They were referred to by Gemma in the speech she gave at our wedding. So who knows, she may drop it in here again.
- [04:19]
Dennis Scully
Excellent. Feel free to dust off a copy of that Gemma and bring some of it into the conversation.
- [04:24]
Flora Soames
I think, you know, Gemma has been a bystander of the growth of this business, you know, as a one man band from a very early. From a very early stage. And I was incredibly, always been interested in art and design. My degree itself was studying history of art at Edinburgh. I adored that. Before I went to Edinburgh, I lived in Florence for a short while attempting to learn to speak Italian. My language skills are limited, but I definitely forged a love of the country. And whilst at Edinburgh I returned to Rome actually for a year in my third year. But a segue from there to working for a short while at the Guggenheim in Venice left me thinking that the very natural next step would be to work in the art world. But I think I quite quickly realized that sitting behind a glass desk, ostensibly in a white box, and it was certainly sort of modern British art, contemporary art that I was quite focused on was, was possibly not the environment for me or the conversation that I wanted to be having. So it was on that hunt for that first job that I ended up working for a furniture dealer. But a furniture dealer who sort of set me on my course and taught me so much about the workings of an ambitious, fast moving business. But he was incredibly trustworthy of this. Must have been then 23 year old girl who. So at that stage it was, you know, it was quite a singular journey as these things are, navigating one's early career. We were both living in London, weren't we, Gemma?
- [06:15]
Gemma Soames
Yeah.
- [06:16]
Flora Soames
And you were on a very different path in your career at that time.
- [06:20]
Gemma Soames
So, yeah. So I also went to Edinburgh University where I read history. And on graduating, I think my eye was more on a good time than any specific career path.
- [06:31]
Dennis Scully
Good for you, Gemma.
- [06:34]
Gemma Soames
So I decided I had to move to New York and I got lucky. I landed a job with a wonderful jewelry designer called Hippolyta Rostagno and she accepted me for a role in her design studio initially. And then quite quickly I moved across to marketing. And a major part of my role was to travel the country doing their trunk shows. And suddenly I found myself at Neiman Marcus in Palo Alto or Beverly Hills or Dallas selling her beautiful jewelry. I think maybe they thought the accent might swing a few sails.
- [07:12]
Dennis Scully
And did it?
- [07:13]
Gemma Soames
I hope so.
- [07:13]
Dennis Scully
Americans fall for it. They do.
- [07:15]
Gemma Soames
I hope so. But after a couple of years, I realized that long term, the jewelry world and specifically marketing in it weren't really where I wanted to go. And we Flora and I have an amazing aunt called Emma Soames who still writes today, but was a legendary magazine editor in the uk and I'd done work experience for her at the Telegraph newspaper at various stages of my life. And, you know, at the ripe old age of 25, I had the realization that really the ultimate career I wanted was one on the features desk of a newspaper. So I packed my bags and went back to London and managed to wriggle my way into a few internships, did a lot of research, made a lot of coffee, and eventually I landed a job as the assistant to the editor on Style Magazine at the Sunday Times. And we had an amazing time. And I sort of maneuvered my way relatively quickly to commissioning editor and then features editor. And then finally I became the fashion features director there for several years. And it was an amazing point at which to be involved in publishing. You know, firstly because we oversaw the birth of digital. You know, suddenly I was reporting from the shows in Paris and I had to populate our Twitter feed and think about video, just like you're having to do today. But also we were reporting on the emergence of luxury E commerce. And as you know, I'm sure Dennis like having the opportunity to interview people about their entrepreneurial journeys, the ideas behind their businesses and the processes that they've put in place to make those ideas come to life. It sort of puts you in a unique position in terms of being able to look under the bonnet. And I think it was at that stage that I became very interested in the actual running of a creative business.
- [09:24]
Flora Soames
And then Gemma moved to Hong Kong. She met her husband.
- [09:27]
Gemma Soames
Yes. I went to a wedding and then everything changed.
- [09:32]
Dennis Scully
So you met your future husband at a wedding?
- [09:34]
Gemma Soames
Yes, I sat next to him at a wedding in the south of France. Within a few weeks, I packed it all in and moved to Asia, where I ended up living with him for 10 years and starting our family.
- [09:45]
Flora Soames
And you left your sister sobbing in a restaurant?
- [09:47]
Dennis Scully
Yes. Heartbroken.
- [09:49]
Flora Soames
I couldn't believe. I mean, how could she abandon me? First she was saying, I'm not coming home for Christmas. Christmas ended up being 10 years.
- [09:57]
Dennis Scully
Oh, that's how it starts, Right? I won't be home for the holidays, but then really, I'm not coming home for a decade.
- [10:03]
Flora Soames
But certain events happened in both of our lives at different times that required us to really show up for each other in a way that never expected at that stage in our lives. And as we know, from long distance relationships, with it comes a lot of heartache, but also with it comes a sort of, you know, these very profound moments of being able to be there for someone. Certainly for me, I was living a very busy life in London. I had my flat, I was working for Talisman by then, part time, and I had set up my interior design business. I was working from above. Talisman showroom on Ebury street in the Pimlico Road. But at that time, my life took a real turn when my extraordinary partner of eight years tragically died after a sudden illness in 2017. And there was Gemma living a very long way away. And there was no one other than my sister who I needed to be able to quite literally and physically hold my hand as well as from afar. And geography certainly did not play a part in us not coming together. She was mother of two very young children and on that plane constantly. And it was a time that I was setting about endeavoring to create a fresh start in my life. I was moving away from Norfolk to Dorset, where I live now. I created a home, a new home, this extraordinary cottage in the woods that I moved into. And the decorating of that home and the going about of unpacking in that home was a very fastidious process. It was one that I was incredibly protective of. It was one that I really threw myself into. But it was also this quiet time in the cottage that the birth of another business really started to come about. And that was the birth of the fabrics business, really. And I think Gemma, you would probably say that at that time, without that proximity, albeit through a very acute lens, you would never have had the insight into what I was starting to put together, really. No.
- [12:30]
Gemma Soames
And that's where the, you know, the way that things have come about and evolved in terms of our working together is so particular to our history. And, you know, yes, I would say that, you know, the nature of, as Laura said, the physical handholding that, you know, that she needed desperately through that unbelievably difficult time meant that I had a visibility on her day to day that I would never have otherwise have had. And whether that was jumping on a plane to come back for a particularly difficult moment. And then as things evolved, jumping on a plane to come back for an exciting moment, the launch of her business, I was involved sort of intrinsically, without really there being a conscious decision to be so. And if we think about where the conversations began in terms of my involvement in a very gentle and not really a conscious way, it all started then.
- [13:32]
Dennis Scully
Flora, we skipped ahead a little bit in terms of you actually becoming a decorator, a designer. And tell me a little bit about how that all evolved from working for the furniture dealer, as you were describing earlier, and seeing the sort of frenetic pace of all of that. How did that evolve into you getting into decoration?
- [14:00]
Flora Soames
Well, as a result of working with Ken, you know, very quickly I was immersed in a world that was very new to me. I certainly had no formal training, but, you know, my training was very much on the job. And it was that visibility on sales with interior designers, London based, elsewhere in the UK based. And he had a huge international following as well. I bought my flat then, which is tiny. I still own the same flat, but, you know, postage stamp sized doesn't begin to explain what it is. But in fact, I think the sort of, the homemaking that I relished in a very sort of natural way in the going about of decorating. That flat certainly played a part in the next steps of friends coming to me and saying, well, how about you doing that for me too? And it grew from there. I mean, thinking about is a language that I have always spoken. It's a language that certainly my mother and I engaged with each other on endlessly growing up. Our mother is an extraordinary homemaker. She has a very clear sense of style. But the thing that I think has been the most influential is that she has always decorated for herself and the people who live under that roof and not for anyone else. And I think that that's something that really struck a chord. You know, in the same way that some people respond to words and others numbers for Me, it was the color of a wall, it was pattern, it was print. I can definitely remember rooms that I would have walked into when I was seven. The flat we grew up in in Hong Kong, aged 5. I can't see the street that it's on, but I distinctly know and can sort of feel the fabric on the sofas that we were climbing all over. And it clicked with me that it was something that I loved. I identified very quickly that I loved working for myself. And, yeah, it was a sort of step by step, building blocks approach to a design business that was ostensibly really quite small. I then went on to have some fantastic design assistants work with me, some who came and went and came back again, whose careers I've gone on to watch and celebrate. But it was always very hands on and it was very heartfelt. And we remain a very small design business still today.
- [17:11]
Dennis Scully
Well, and you mentioned your mother being such a big influence on you. And I'm mad about the picture of your mother in your beautiful book where she's sitting in the living room and there are six dogs around her always.
- [17:30]
Flora Soames
My poor mother is not mad about the photograph of her with six dogs, is that right? Nor is she mad about the photograph of herself in the clogs in the rain.
- [17:39]
Dennis Scully
Oh, dear. I found that so wonderful, and part of what I find so wonderful about it, here's an image of all these dogs, and she's got a blanket or a throw of sorts underneath her, and.
- [17:52]
Flora Soames
Not one dog is sitting on it.
- [17:54]
Dennis Scully
Well, I did notice that she is the only one out actually sitting on the throw intended for the dogs to preserve the furniture, no doubt. But the furniture all looks fantastic and it looks lived in. And the room feels warm and so livable. And I think so often I talk to English designers and decorators about the look that so many Americans are trying to capture when they're trying to replicate the British warmth and comfort and feel. And I feel like this picture personifies so much of. Of that image. It is such a wonderful, colorful room. It's beautiful, but it's also clearly lived in and comfortable and. Come right in and. Yes, of course. And let me move a dog so you can sit down.
- [18:44]
Flora Soames
Yes. No. And I think that, too, speaks to how I strive to decorate, which is about the way that a house makes you feel when you cross the threshold. And that house itself is exactly that. The result of someone who, in a sort of very uncontrived way, has created a house that tells the story of everyone who lives under that roof, as well as the People who have gone before Gemma and I refer to. There's a dresser that has moved with our family which says everything about what our mother really celebrates. Simon Upton completely understood it when he photographed it. Sort of bang on. We refer to it as the wallpaper of our lives and it's photographs, letters, birds, eggs, feathers, you name it. If you found a place onto the dresser, you've really made it. And I think that's a way of decorating. It's celebrating the ordinary as well as the extraordinary.
- [19:53]
Dennis Scully
Yeah, it's obviously very meaningful and important.
- [19:56]
All right, I let us get a.
- [19:57]
Little bit off track because we were starting to talk about, sadly, Flora, the loss that you experienced and the need for your loving sister's care and comfort. And that seemed to bring Gemma into your world in a very powerful way. And then somehow this leads to a pivot point. Yes. So let's get back there.
- [20:23]
Gemma Soames
Well, in terms of my journey to that pivot point, I mean, you know, the best laid plans and all that. So, you know, as I said, I watched and participated in that from afar, in, you know, whatever role Flora needed me to at that time. And then not long after that, fast forward to Covid and Lockdown, for which I was in Hong Kong. And suddenly we lived in a world where, you know, we weren't able to jump on a plane and go and see our families. And, you know, that was particularly challenging in Asia. And we didn't leave for several years, and that was, you know, a very difficult time. And eventually my husband and I decided we just had to visit our families. It had been too long and we needed to go and see them. But my life then took another sharp turn because a couple of days before we got on a plane to come home, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. And so we landed back in England in a hurry and in a heap. And so began a chapter that I absolutely never expected, which was, you know, a year of very intense treatment with two young children. But we were back with his family and my family where we needed desperately to be to get through that time. And we did, with the support of the people around us. And at that time, Flora had been commissioned by Rizzoli to write her book. And I had obviously had to relinquish. I had various consultancy commitments that I'd had in Asia. You know, I'd been, you know, people I'd been working with for a while, and I'd had to relinquish that while I was going through my treatment. But I desperately wanted some sort of a lifeline and a connection with the outside world. When your world becomes all about one thing that's pretty unrelenting. Any opportunity that arises for a bit of light relief is golden.
- [22:23]
Flora Soames
From my perspective, it was about supporting Gemma and her family. And, you know, from the beginning it was very evident that this book was going to slightly become a beast of its own and certainly a sort of more personal story than I'd anticipated. And calling on Gemma and her extraordinary skill set and ability to write was a very natural coming together. I mean, it was an unspoken dialogue as only siblings can have. But over that period of nine months, it sort of evolved as Gemma's course through her treatment evolved. And at around about the time of the actual launch, it became very apparent that there was the demand and place for a much more formal role for Gemma to step into should she wish to do so. And that really coincided with her moving from Norfolk, where she had based herself for those first nine months, to very near to our head office here. And at that moment Gemma really stepped in, helped with the launch of the book, which was a thing as we set about to do it in really quite an ambitious way. But also it came at the same time that we very much wanted to launch our e commerce website. And there were no better hands, as far as I was concerned, than my sisters having both chartered the course that we had from the ensuing years to sort of forge ahead together.
- [24:11]
Dennis Scully
We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Leloy, who just debuted new seasons from their collaborations with Amber Lewis and Chris Loves Julia and an all new designer partner is launching very soon. You can find out who that is and see all those new rugs, pillows and wall art at High Point Market this month. Learn more@laloirugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and don't forget to follow Laloyloi Rugs on Instagram and TikTok.
- [24:48]
Tell me what the business was suddenly becoming. Flora, you and I have talked in the past about getting into the fabric business and you know how I feel about that and it's. It's a complicated business to get into. What was pushing you in that direction and what was the business really becoming suddenly for you?
- [25:10]
Flora Soames
Well, I think the interiors business was on its course and I was involved in a myriad of different residential and some commercial jobs and that did not wane in any sense. But the launch of the fabrics business was very personal to me. It was the result of a collection of antique textiles that I had amassed over Many, many years. And it was really going back to that time in the cottage in the woods. It was a time of reflection, but it was also a time of there probably being more silence in my life than I would have hoped for. And this very methodical unpacking and turning to these objects, these fragments that sort of really upheld me as much as they propelled me forward. And I guess I just simply couldn't help myself looking at this extraordinary, very crude 19th century cornucopia design and wanting to engage with what would that process look like if I started to endeavor printing that by the same means myself? The same applied to a specific design of wallpaper and it really grew from there. And, and those conversations with the makers critically was, was a huge part of that. And this sort of stable of designs, I refer to them, or certainly at that moment of time, a slightly more civilized family of friends, the now sort of quite unruly, you know, crowd that, that, that, that this is some somehow sort of overtakes the tables. But you know, it was, it was, I held it very close. It was, yes, it was a lifeline of sorts. And there was certainly a naivety to how I thought I would drop this out there into the world and how that was going to be managed and run as a separate business. I don't think I had visibility necessarily on that immediately being a separate business. I think very quickly I identified that it was, would be and needed to be. But at that stage in time I was still living in this tiny cottage. My office was in the long room at the back. I had one full time member of staff going between the two as well as a design assistant. And it was just responding to what was a very organic but very methodical growth really.
- [27:43]
Dennis Scully
And Gemma, when did you, when did you really officially jump in and really help with all of this? Because the fabric line has grown obviously and is represented in the United States now. And we'll talk about the new shop opening as well. So suddenly there's a lot going on.
- [28:02]
And a lot of need for you, Gemma.
- [28:03]
Gemma Soames
So my involvement became official in 2023. So when flora launched the book in September of that year, we decided, you know, as the book was going to be published internationally and we would be selling the book. And at that point Flora had grown the product line to include some home accessories. And we decided that was really important, that we had an e commerce website that made us accessible and visible and enabled us to tell our story to people who weren't just coming through emails to our sales team, but were reaching out from wherever they wanted to be. And I came on board to make that happen and have been running the day to day of the fabrics business.
- [28:51]
Flora Soames
Since, you know, the real backbone of the collection is about how we produce these designs. So we are entirely committed to working with British craftsmen on the making of our products. And that really is a very defining factor for us. But it does also. No, but. And it means that, you know, the design process, the trialing process, the decision making process, before one is even has even got to the point of setting about to launch these designs is a very committed, detailed and you know, from my perspective, we have always been a small team, but the very real need to have someone else to be able to lean on, to run other aspects of running the business certainly meant that my eye in terms of the fabrics business could continue to be on the creative, the design and the story of going about broadening and promoting the collection, as well as remaining very committed to the interior design projects that I work on day to day.
- [30:11]
Dennis Scully
So to that point, Flora, help me understand the entire business today. And have we grown in number? Quite a bit. Have we scaled up in any meaningful way?
- [30:24]
Flora Soames
Yes. So, I mean, as I referenced earlier, the interior design business remains small and that is something that I would love to remain the case. So I have currently two fantastic design assistants. One who's worked with me for a very long time and one who has recently come on board. Florasomes Ltd. The design business is a very separate business to Florasomes Fabrics. It became quite apparent that the need for two businesses was, was there. They are two very different disciplines and they require two very different teams. But we, we operate under one umbrella. My name is above the door on both. And in terms of the fabrics business that is constantly growing, we are a team of seven with additional consultants who've been integral in the expansion of the fabrics business from day one. You know, considering where we are today, I think we are still running on quite a lean setup. I think that speaks quite a lot to how Gemma and I work, but also how involved we are still today in so many aspects of the business.
- [31:53]
Gemma Soames
You know, together and separately, we cover a lot of ground, you know, and obviously there are always dream hires you'd like to make and, you know, and we will continue to strive towards that. We've just hired a wonderful new sales manager to work out of our new London showroom, which is incredibly exciting. And as we continue to grow in the States, you know, we will need to grow the team to support that.
- [32:17]
Dennis Scully
So let's talk about the new shop, the impressive new shop that's opened on Pimlico Road, colorful as it is. Right, so let's talk about how long you've been working on that and what the thinking was there and where that fits in with all of these expansive plans.
- [32:35]
Gemma Soames
Well, we actually, we grew up there, didn't we, Flora? We grew up walking to school down the Pimlico Road. Our parents live around the corner and so it's always been a place that we loved and in terms of, you know, thinking about a physical location, you know, a complete no brainer in terms of where we would want to be from a brand perspective. And then Flora, you, you know, it's part of your history. You worked there for a long time.
- [33:02]
Flora Soames
For a long time. And, and from that moment that I left Talisman and had this rather extraordinary handing over ceremony to Robert Keim, who then move what was the Talisman showroom. There was a constant dialogue from that stage in time with Grosvenor about the desire to be there. So when the opportunity came up, we jumped at the chance. And what I'm so thrilled about is, as with everything we do, we've gone about it properly and full tilt. It is an assault on the senses, as quite a lot of these things that we do are. And it's impactful in being that. I just think wherever we can share with each other the very real journey that is that process in building these product based businesses, the more we can all benefit. And certainly being on the Pimlico Road, we are surrounded by, you know, British brands who I am, you know, hugely admiring of and neighbours who've been enormous supporters of ours and I watch and follow what they do with enormous admiration and only aspire to, you know, what they've achieved.
- [34:29]
Dennis Scully
Well, and what do you imagine, and we should probably tell some listeners who else is on the Pimlico Road. We mentioned Robert Keim, obviously, and Nina Campbell and Will Fisher and Charlot from Jam. And I mean, there are so many incredible businesses on Pimlico Road. But what do you think having a shop there means being one of the building blocks for your business? What does it mean to you? How do you think about it?
- [34:59]
Flora Soames
Well, I think there's a real sense of legacy with the Pimlico Road. But the other thing that I think is worth speaking to is the community that is the Pimlico Road. You speak of Nina Campbell. Nina is, you know, the sort of grande dame of our industry. And also, you know, Lulu Little is extraordinary, as her podcast with you clearly demonstrated to the world, clearly demonstrated to the world. And, you know, but I think of, you know, the friendship that I have formed with Lulu, and she has supported me before I even knew that fabrics were on my radar. And, you know, we both champion British craftsmanship, and it's in the DNA of our brands, but it's coursing through our veins. It's something we're both passionate about.
- [35:57]
Gemma Soames
I think it's also an interesting time to be there because Grosvenor themselves are. Have really got a mind on attracting and fostering a really significant international presence. Obviously, you know, that's been in place for a long time, but they're constantly pushing forward. And, you know, we see a huge amount of energy generated from the community as a whole and from all of us brands as individuals that I think enables us to be bigger than the sum of our parts.
- [36:27]
Dennis Scully
And I'm curious when you come over to the States, and I'm curious both the impact that the book has in helping to clarify and give your history. We should mention for listeners who haven't had a chance to read the book or might not know that you both are actually great grandchildren of Winston Churchill. And that comes up in the book in terms of the family history and some wonderful images and stories. And I wonder how that helps to buttress, if you will, you, as a, forgive me, Flora, as a brand, or as somebody who is bringing a fabric line to the US if that. All of that heritage helps.
- [37:27]
Flora Soames
Well, I think, you know, the book was, for us, for me, an extraordinary tool to be able to tell my story, my really quite unorthodox story. You know, in coming to be a decorator, I felt that I really wanted to speak to the relationship that I had with, with very influential women in my life growing up and how they really formed this very strong sense of home. And to speak to that, you know, that legacy that is across both of our families, our mother's family and our father's family, something that is talked about constantly around our table, upheld and. And, you know, it continues to be a conversation that we have with our children. So it felt a very natural avenue, really.
- [38:28]
Dennis Scully
And interestingly, going back to the picture of your mother, the entire history and Clementine and Winston entertained in such a way that family was present and that there was always this feeling that you were in a family home. And that seems to have very much carried forward with, as you say, all of the matriarchal figures in your life that seem to be a priority.
- [38:55]
Gemma Soames
Our touch point for that was our grandmother, our paternal grandmother, Mary Soames. Who, you know, led an extraordinary life. As you know, she was the youngest child of Winston and Clementine Churchill. She always called herself the child of consolation because. Cause they had a daughter, Marigold, who very sadly died when she was three years old. And they then decided to have another child. And that was our grandmother. And she was an extraordinary person to grow up around and very, very involved in our lives. And she really dedicated her life to upholding the legacy of her parents. She lived around the corner. Flora and I were both living in West Lantern at the time, and she lived around the corner from us. And we spent an inordinate amount of Sundays retreating back to her. Essentially. She lived in a country cottage in the middle of Holland park, you know, to kind of seek solace. Cause it was always such a comforting place. And her sense of home, you know, it might have looked a bit different to the home that our other grandmother made or that our mother created, but this feeling, this all encompassing feeling of ease and welcome was something that was so infused in the spaces that we grew up in.
- [40:08]
Flora Soames
Well, and she had this wonderful lightness of touch which really was palpable. She was surrounded by extraordinary things. She had many paintings by her father and really sort of moments of pieces of history surrounding her. But there was a very sort of fresh, an irreverent take on how she lived alongside those objects. I mean, her father's prime minister's red leather dispatch box sat by her front door with her dog's poo bags in it, as she.
- [40:45]
Dennis Scully
Yes, I loved that.
- [40:46]
Flora Soames
Wafted out of the front door and that sort of summed it up. By contrast, our mother's mother was collector extraordinaire. And for her it was like panning for gold, going to the local car boot sale. And there we were, trailing along behind her. But it was as much about the display of things as it was the collecting. And it certainly wasn't about the value of them. That collecting has been a very defining thing for me throughout my life.
- [41:18]
Gemma Soames
And the title of the book, the One Day Box, speaks directly to that collecting, you know, that is the central point, isn't it, Flo?
- [41:26]
Flora Soames
Absolutely. And you know, the One Day Box was a phrase that a friend very kindly coined as I sort of teetered at the top of a ladder, pulling something out from the top of a cupboard, trying to justify its existence within my collection. You know, what was I massing? What was it for? Was it for a house that I might one day live in? But as we know, one Day never plays out quite as you expect. It to and never did. I imagine that the unpacking of those things would have been the genesis of a point of real creativity in my life. And I think I have consciously or subconsciously really enjoyed being able to tap into that with some of these prints. I mean, one of our signature prints is the dahlias. The Dahlias is based on a 19th century French fragment of wallpaper. It's 16 colors. I mean, certainly our printers would say it's the most ambitious thing that they print.
- [42:27]
Dennis Scully
And how do they say that when.
- [42:29]
They tell you that?
- [42:30]
Sort of through gritted teeth when they tell you.
- [42:32]
Flora Soames
And I think Gemma might say it's the least commercial thing I've set out to do. But we love it and we're deeply proud of it and others love it too. And speaking to how do people receive that in the States, certainly the dahlias, it's a hit, it's memorable. But for many of us, there's a bit of a walk down memory lane. It's the sort of slightly torn, loose cover on your great aunt's rocking chair, and that really resonates today.
- [43:08]
Dennis Scully
We're taking a quick break from the show to let you know about Hector Finch's role in this year's Kips Bay Decorator show house in New York. From September 30 through October 19, you can see their lighting installed in four different rooms created in collaboration with designers throughout the house. While you're in town, stop by the R. Hughes showroom at the New York Design center to explore a wide range of fixtures from the Hector Finch collection. To register for Kips Bay, visit kipsbaedecoratorshowhouse.org and to see the full collection online, head to hectorfinch.com and now back to the show.
- [43:52]
So Gemma, Flora just made a reference to commercial viability of some of the things in the line. And I wonder if that is a little bit of a push pull, a role that you sometimes have to play. Do you have to reel Flora in a little bit? Do you have to hold it back? Do you have to.
- [44:12]
Gemma Soames
It is quite challenging to reel her in. And, you know, in terms of plans for the future, there are so many things that she'd love to turn to and, you know, hopefully we, we will get to those in time. But, you know, through this next stage of our growth, with a real eye on the US we have been very focused on the fabrics business.
- [44:33]
Dennis Scully
Yes.
- [44:34]
Gemma Soames
So in terms of the US showrooms, when Flora launched the business in 2019, in Europe, in the UK and in America, all sales were done directly through Our office and we still distribute everything directly for all other territories, apart from certain key areas in the us and then finally a year or so ago, we felt like we had not only grown the line to merit that sort of representation, but also really vitally prepared the team to be able to deliver on a level of service that is expected.
- [45:09]
Flora Soames
And Gemma speaking to that, I think, you know, wearing both hats, both as the decorator as well as the designer of fabrics and purveyor of fabrics, that service and ability to fulfill in that sense is something that I feel incredibly strongly about. So knowing that we were able to meet our showrooms where they needed to meet us or where they needed us to meet them at, but also, you know, knowing that we were able to deliver that first and foremost ourselves was really important.
- [45:46]
Gemma Soames
Yeah, our first step was to open in Texas with James, with Hunter and Meredith, who I know you know well and were big fans. Absolutely, absolutely wonderful. And we couldn't have asked for more. And you know, as I said, we weren't. We hadn't been set up historically to sell via showrooms anywhere. So there were a lot of new processes that we needed to put in place. And they walked us through that process and we've been with them in Texas for over a year and it's been absolutely great. You know, we're seeing a really strong sell through there. And then we've taken a step by step approach to other territories. You know, we are moving quite strategically and slowly. So we are now represented in New York and la, and we're about to open Atlanta in a couple of weeks. But we are at the same time very focused on our direct sales in America. You know, getting out and meeting people and having that conversation has been vital to the growth of the business. And as you said earlier, Dennis, you know, the launch of Flora's book was an incredible sort of starting point for that. But also we're at an interesting time and you know, there are now so many different touch points that you can have with your clients in terms of the communications you're doing directly, whether that's via our website, on social media, or whatever outreach we might be doing. But also in terms of initiatives other people are running. You know, lots of whom have been on your podcast. You know, we've done the design days, talks and events in Palm beach and Newport that have been incredibly valuable. We've been to the Design Social pop up. We went to one in East Hampton and we also had a fabulous pop up in Paris at Deco off actually in January 24th. It was really the beginning of our really significant US growth, during which we met so many American designers who hadn't come across our line before and went home and started spreading the word. And so there are so many different ways in which we are, you know, striving forward and getting in front of people and meeting our customers. And to continue to do that alongside our showrooms as well as directly is really important.
- [48:02]
Flora Soames
It's vital. But also being able to get in front of their customers and our own, to really be able to tell the story about what we do, how we do it, why we do it, why they're asked to pay, what they're asked to pay for it is very important. You know, our processes are, and price points are entirely hinged on our making processes. You know, if you're hand screen printing a six color design, that is going to be reflected in the cost in the same way that if you're hand screen printing a one color design. And I think the other thing that puts us in a very strong position as a result of how we print our linens or weave or hand block print our wallpapers is that there is full scope for customization. And we do not operate. A computer says no business, the computer says yes. Or quite often there isn't a computer. Vitally, there is a very obliging person. And as we know, customization, particularly in the States, is something that people are very receptive to. And we can be doing that with a minimum of eight roles and not be asking you to wait five months to deliver that. And you know, it's only by getting in front of people that Gemma and I can really tell that story and put that point across.
- [49:36]
Dennis Scully
And listen, it's interesting, Flora, that you mentioned about explaining about the cost and why this is that. And we're having a lot more conversations today about the fact that costs have risen so dramatically in our industry for a lot of things. And so again, whether it's tariffs or whether it's just a lot of supply chain issues, costs have gone up and a lot of people are having a lot more conversations about that and how it's impacting everything involved in residential projects, especially completely.
- [50:07]
Flora Soames
And you know, we are certainly, it's something that we're incredibly mindful of. I go back to that sort of unapologetic approach, but, but you just need to articulate where, what, how, you know, if you're asking someone to invest at that level and we are a high level product, then you need to be able to paint the picture very clearly of all aspects that goes into that in terms of our price points. I am also now designing very much with that in mind, wanting to have as balanced a collection as possible.
- [50:44]
Dennis Scully
Do you think we're exaggerating the. There's a feeling among many that this is a golden age for British companies that want to come to America, because America's just loving this look and this feel so much, and they want it. Do you think. Does it not feel as easy as that to you? Do you just throw anything out there? All the Americans, they just drink it right up.
- [51:07]
Flora Soames
No, I think we're testament to the fact that it's not always easy. And let's talk about that, too. You know, it's about hard work. It's about staying in your lane, which is something I try to remind myself, you know, all the time as I'm overexcited and frantically wanting to expand into other product lines, but sort of, you know, sticking to what you do, what you've learned to get there, and responding to a demand and responding to constructive criticism and responding to rejection. Dare I say it, you know, that stands for all industries.
- [51:51]
Gemma Soames
But there's definitely, you know, there is definitely an appetite and an interest and a momentum. And, you know, when we've headed out to territories that we hadn't been to before, like, you know, we were in Palm beach in January, for example, you know, we weren't quite sure how the designs were gonna land. And actually, it's been, you know, the reception we've had has been really encouraging. And as Flora says, you know, sometimes there are requests that we adapt things or, you know, print them on different grounds or, you know, maybe slightly tweak a colorway. And as she's alluded to, you know, we can absolutely do that for people. But in general, you know, the reception has been really positive. You know, our showroom, we're at Jasper in la, and we only opened with them a few months ago. And again, you know, the west coast is such a different market, and I wasn't sure how our stable of designs would translate, but it's been fantastic, and we've got, you know, we've hit the ground running. And of course, you know, our pavilion collection of stripes is a really obvious fit, but also, you know, we're seeing take up in corners of the collection where I hadn't necessarily predicted it.
- [52:59]
Flora Soames
Well, and I think in the same way that that demand is never going to stand still, you know, neither are we in terms of where we go with our designs. And, you know, I also think you come to to us for something specific. I think it is about color, I think it is about print. I think it is about heritage and integrity in design and where it comes from and how it's made.
- [53:25]
Dennis Scully
Well, and picking up on that storytelling, which is where I wanted to go with the marketing question. And today we're all working so hard to tell the story and how the story lands and where it should land. I mean, I'm imagining that a video of Flora walking through her home on the House and Garden website might be just as wonderful and helpful to the marketing efforts as whatever the Instagram and marketing team is doing internally.
- [53:57]
Flora Soames
Yes, yes, yes. And I think there's a balance with that. I mean, referring to our social media, the voice is still very much mine through our Instagram account. And I think, you know, that's important. If we want to talk about the push and the pull, I think, you know, that's Gemma might be pulling a.
- [54:16]
Dennis Scully
Bit more on that one just because Instagram's making her. I want to make it clear Instagram's very demanding, but also we have to.
- [54:23]
Flora Soames
Feel comfortable with what we're putting out there and how we put it out there. And, you know, we're not just going to respond, you know, exclusively to what the algorithms, you know, require of us. It's got to fit holistically, you know, with, with. With what we're doing in terms of the, The. The. The marketing material. I mean, you know, going back to the sort of doing it our own way and doing it properly. You know, we work with extraordinary photographers and, you know, that's the bit where I get really excited. I mean, only a month ago, I was on a shoot with two donkeys, two lambs, five children, a rowing boat, a caravan.
- [55:09]
Dennis Scully
How fantastic.
- [55:11]
Flora Soames
In the words of Chris Martin, what could possibly go wrong? It is about having fun, too. It is about bringing it home. It is about, you know, storytelling and taking one outside of, you know, the four walls of our home, as much as sort of looking at it in the slightly more sort of pedestrian how to setting. And, you know, very often one has gone there in the process of imagining some of these designs anyway, so it's just this wonderful full circle. But definitely, I think I might have landed mention of a swan in a bath. And Jebber said, okay, that's a step too far.
- [55:47]
Gemma Soames
Yeah, that was a bridge too far.
- [55:50]
Flora Soames
And quite. Where do you plan to find that.
- [55:53]
Gemma Soames
Swan you imagine, Dennis? You know, quite a serious marketing meeting. And she said, I'm thinking swans. I mean, that old adage, you know, never work with your family or animals does not apply in our case. That is not a mantra we live by.
- [56:05]
Dennis Scully
Well, it is amusing though, because, listen, social media demands more and more of us.
- [56:13]
And I talk to a lot of.
- [56:14]
Designers who say, listen, they want more of the behind the scenes, they want.
- [56:18]
More of my family, they want more.
- [56:20]
Of the at home world. And that seems important to them. And many of my British friends will joke and say, listen, it's hard enough for us to talk about that.
- [56:30]
Flora Soames
Right.
- [56:30]
Dennis Scully
Because of how we were raised in our culture. And we're certainly not going to be putting that on social media, for heaven's sakes. So I mean, it is challenging and we're all sort of finding our way with how we present ourselves in the world.
- [56:45]
Gemma Soames
And also, you know, it's time consuming. You know, again, it goes back to we are a small team and we don't have a dedicated social media manager. And, and you know, there's pressure on us to deliver all the time and that. And you know, and you can get caught up in thinking that you're not doing enough or doing it right. But you know, we have to show up in a way that works for us and that feels right.
- [57:08]
Flora Soames
And learn and learn along the way. And you know, you only really learn from having crossed a line that you don't feel entirely comfortable with. So listen to that and respond to that.
- [57:19]
Dennis Scully
Right.
- [57:19]
And that happened with the swans itself.
- [57:22]
Flora Soames
But certainly it happens with the dogs on beds. Yes, it is very divisive.
- [57:27]
Dennis Scully
No, no, no. And I know people have different reactions. I say that is what you want, more dogs on beds. And again, I think captures so much of what I think the American market wants to try and capture when they think of it. Ben Pentrif said that he thinks the Americans are still making it a little too big, too perfect. And then that's the sort of missing element that some things have to be a little run down or there needs to be some threads that are pulled.
- [57:58]
Flora Soames
Definitely, you know, and that's, you know, possibly what you walk out of a room remembering, or certainly the time you had in it. You rarely walk out of a room and say, that was just the perfect shade of pink on the waltz.
- [58:12]
Dennis Scully
Yeah.
- [58:13]
Flora Soames
Or I don't at least. But, but, but I will remember what that perfect shade of pink did to the light that made me feel like I'd wreck. I could really kick up my heels and have a good time.
- [58:26]
Dennis Scully
Well, and you, you wonder what, what are those elements? Because I think most people, I hope most people want you to feel comfortable in their home. And you wonder, what are those elements that convey that feeling of please be comfortable?
- [58:43]
Flora Soames
I think we want our homes to say something about us. You know, whether it's the picture that's hanging on a wall, the photograph that's leaning up on a mantelpiece, the books I can see sitting behind you. Now, that's really what a home is there to do. It's there to, you know, uphold the lives we're living and, you know, promote who we are and what we love and the people we want to take along with us. And I think the more that you're willing for your interior to speak to that, the more interesting a time I hope you will have when you cross my threshold. That and promptly being offered a drink and, you know, feeling like, you know, there's no right or wrong as to where you sit, how you sit, what you say.
- [59:39]
Dennis Scully
Yeah, yeah. No, no. I love that. Okay, ladies, I have kept you for far too long. This has been such a delightful conversation, and I thank you both for making the time. It's been wonderful to speak with you.
- [59:53]
Flora Soames
Well, Dennis, thank you. We've loved it.
- [59:55]
Gemma Soames
It's been wonderful to talk to you, too, Dennis.
- [60:00]
Dennis Scully
Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us online@businessofhome.com where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings, and join our BoH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a line@podcastusinessofhome.com if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicholas and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.