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Business of Home Podcast
The Thursday Show: A fresh round of tariff chaos. Plus: Alexa Hampton on 50 years of Kips Bay
00:59:50
Host Dennis Scully and BOH executive editor Fred Nicolaus discuss the biggest news in the design world. Later, designer Alexa Hampton joins the show to talk about her history with the Kips Bay Decorator Show House.
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Foreign.
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This is Business of Home. I'm Dennis Scully, and welcome to the Thursday Show. Later on, I'll be speaking with Alexa Hampton about this year's Kips Bay Show House. But first, we're going to catch up on the news, including new tariffs targeting the home industry, Miller Knowles latest earnings report, and what's behind the enduring popularity of Millennial Gray. To do all that, I'm joined by Business of Homes executive executive editor Fred Nicholaus. Hi, Fred.
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Hi, Dennis. How's it going?
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Hanging in there, Fred, how are you?
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I understand you're a little bit sick today. I can't really hear it in your voice.
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B
Well, you're kind to say we're gonna try and keep it together, Fred.
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A
For this show, I'd take a sick Dennis Scully over most other healthy podcasters. Well, has it been all the gallivanting? I feel like I've seen you two or three times over the past week, most recently at the Kips Bay Show House. That was fun.
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B
And how fun was that? Yes. You and I got to spend hours going through the Kip Bay Show House together.
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A
Multiple hours. It was. It was a long journey, but a fun one. You know, it's funny, you know, the Kips Bay Show House almost didn't happen this year. You know, it's the 50th anniversary, but they lost the house at the last minute. They had to move it, gasp, below 14th Street. But everyone, you know, pulled it together. It's a really fun house. There's even a podcast studio. Charles Pavarini designed one. And it was all I could do not to sit down in one of those chairs and just start riffing on ivory Boucle. And it was, it was. It was a fun. Were there any highlights for you? I know Alexa's gonna talk about it later on in the show, but what jumped out for you?
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B
One of the other ones that jumped out at me. I had the pleasure of being in the UK this summer for the launch of the Highgrove Collection for Sanderson. And Ben Pentrif made an appearance at the Kips Bay Show House. A decorator from across the pond, which was a welcome addition to the house and very exciting to see that collaboration between Sanderson and Ben Pentrif. But also, I think our friends at GRAC were one of the unsung stars of the Kips Bay Show House. There's some pretty fabulous wallpapers in some of the rooms, including a remarkable Trump Loy wallpaper that is in Alessandro Branca's room that is more than memorable.
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Oh, That's a good one. Yeah. And I also liked the There was a writer's room, which certainly beats the heck out of my writer's room. So that was another lovely Gracie wallpaper. Yeah. All in all, a lot of highlights in the house. If you're gonna be in New York over the next couple weeks, definitely go check it out. I'll probably be wr for the site, so maybe we'll have even more Kips Bay content next week, but definitely check it out yourself if you can. It's always a good show. Speaking of good shows, let's look back on Monday's episode, A Conversation with designer Ray Booth. Very good conversation. Went to a lot of unexpected places, I thought.
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I agree. A fun conversation. And thank you Ray for letting me ask you questions on all sorts of different subjects that you kindly answered, including your thoughts about AI and some of the challenges and stresses of high end clients today. But it was fun. I did not know that Ray and an old friend of mine, Gray Davis, were both the first interns at Bobby McAlpin's firm years ago, a firm that Ray would intern at and then leave and go to New York and then later come to work at for quite some time. So it was fun to learn about his whole journey in design.
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Yeah. So do a good job on your internship. You may be applying for a job 20 years later as it turns out. Yeah, really fun kind of discursive conversation. As you mentioned, you talked about AI. I've heard this anecdotally, but it was good to have it on the record about a designer saying, my client is asking ChatGPT to pick the colors of her walls and why did this person hire me? But I loved hearing about that. I also just loved, kind of got into some spiritual places. He was talking about how meditation has been really important for him recently. So just a really fun conversation. He's very natur storyteller. A great listen top to bottom for me.
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Completely agree. And it was very personal and real. So I appreciate that very much and I think people will get a lot out of it. We're gonna take a quick break and then we'll get into the news. This podcast is sponsored by Chelsea House. Celebrated designer Amanda Lindroth is bringing her signature island style to high point. Amanda's introducing her line of furniture, accessories and lighting in partnership with Chelsea House, the storied North Carolina based company. Think sun bleached neutrals, breezy verandas and old World charm. From hand woven trays to scalloped side chairs, each piece captures the effortless elegance of island life. The Amanda Lindroth Home Collection debuts during High point Market on October 23rd through the 29th. Preview the line at amandalindroth.com or Chelsea House Inc.com and come celebrate with Amanda at her book signing cocktail soiree on Saturday, October 25th from 4 to 6pm this podcast is sponsored by Newport Brass. For over 35 years, Newport Brass has handcrafted solid brass kitchen and bath faucets made to last for generations. Inspired by coastal elegance, these fixtures balance east coast tradition with west coast ease, offering timeless silhouettes and uncompromising craftsmanship. With a palette of 22 finishes and endless configurations, Newport Brass gives every project presence, purpose and distinction. See what's possible@newportbrass.com and we're back. Believe it or not, Fred, we're going to start with tariffs.
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Here we go again. The design industry has been at the center of tariff news over the past week after the Trump administration announced new levies on imported lumber, upholstered furniture, kitchen cabinets, and bathroom vanities. Where were you when you heard about the new tariffs, Dennis?
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Well, I think I was just leaving an event with you, as a matter of fact, when I first saw you.
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Yes, you were. Yes. Well, it's funny, so I hope listeners will forgive a little storytelling here. But you know, Dennis and I did not get to go to the opening of RH Paris. We were able to go to the opening of RH Manhasset, which, as everyone knows, Manhasset is the Paris of Long Island. So that was fun. So we said Dennis did his classic Dennis Gully thing, swept in, charmed the socks off. Everybody left 20 minutes later, leaving me there. And then eventually towards the end of the party, Gary Friedman, chairman and CEO, walks in and I'm thinking, okay, I'm going to go up and ask him a question because on the last earnings call, he made this very passionate, okay, the administration, call me, call me about these tariffs. Give me a call. So I was like, I was going to walk up to him and say, hey, did they call you Gary? And so I walk up to him and I asked that, and he shows me, actually, just as he got off the plane, these new tariffs were announced. So I actually found out the news directly from Gary Friedman himself. Total shock, total surprise. But on the other hand, are these tariffs really ever a surprise in this day and age? We should just step back for a second and say that, as is always the case, there's a lot of new, a lot of noise, a lot of this information is not totally set in stone. All these tariffs were originally supposed to go in place actually today, Wednesday, October 1st. That's when we're recording. But then subsequently they were pushed back to the 14th. You know, they won't fully go into place until January 1st, apparently. So there's a lot in here that may change even by the time you hear this. I don't know how seriously should we be taking this latest announcement, Dennis?
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Well, exactly. By the time this show airs, this might all be settled. But they were, they did decide to roll them back and give us a couple of more weeks because there were so many questions right out of the gate. Were these going to be on top of the country specific tariffs and what did they all mean? I mean, where shall we begin to try and explain where all of this is targeted?
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As we said earlier, yes, it is targeted. Well, okay, so later on in the conversation today, we're going to be swinging back to the tariffs on kitchen cabinetry. So let's put those on pause for now and just focus on the upholstery. So the big tariff that came out on upholstery was announced was 30% on all imported upholstery. And notably it did not seem like there were many exceptions, except for the UK and the EU, which will not have to pay 30%. They'll be stuck at their 10 to 15%. So no real change for them. But certainly countries in Asia, Southeast Asia will have to now pay a 30% tariff on upholstery. And it seems like Canada and Mexico as well will too. These tariffs I do not believe will be stacked on existing reciprocal tariffs, although the language, as always, is a little bit confusing. It's not 100% clear. And it's not like the White House has really broken it down item by item. It's interesting because certainly 30% is a high number, but in the case of, for example, Vietnam, which is currently at, I think, either 19 or 20%, it's not that much more than what's already been in place. Certainly it always feels like this changes everything, but I don't actually know if this does change anything in the eyes of both importers and designers. But what are you hearing out there?
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Well, I certainly got the impression that a lot of people imagined workrooms getting very busy as a result of hearing some of these numbers and if these numbers are real, that it's going to be hard to continue to toe the line that many have been suggesting, oh, this really won't affect us. We can build this in or we can carry this. I think people who were trying to play it cool with price increases acknowledge that if these numbers are real, this could have a transformative impact on the industry.
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Well, that's interesting because I've actually heard some people saying the opposite. I mean, there was an article in Reuters that came out recently from a couple of upholstery makers who said, look, I moved to Vietnam. I'm not leaving here. We're going to stick it out. I can't move all my production to the US I certainly think prices will go up. I think that's accurate. I think people were already starting to do that. So my suspicion is that those numbers which were already coming up will certainly continue to come up. As to whether this will overload local workrooms, I don't know because again, at the very high end, I feel like designers who work with a local workroom were not necessarily importing a lot of upholstery from Southeast Asia. So maybe this doesn't really change things for them. I do think it's impactful. I don't want to downplay it. I just feel like there was a widespread concern that it was going to be a 50% tariff across all furniture, including case goods, which would have been incredibly transformative. And I feel like in some ways the fact that it focuses on upholstery, which we have a lot of here in the US and the fact that it's 30 as opposed to 50 maybe to some degree dampens the impact. But I don't know. Again, there's so much that's up in the air. Maybe we won't really know until we get all the details.
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Well, and I think to your point, and certainly we won't know, and again, it changes every week, so it's hard to really plan around it. But I do think that everyone who has been suggesting that, oh, this isn't really going to be inflationary or this isn't going to show up in a meaningful way. I just don't think that there's any way that these companies can hold the line with these kinds of increases. So I think you're going to see a lot more inflationary pressure and maybe they push it to the beginning of next year, but it is going to start to show up in a meaningful way. There is no doubt if these numbers hold.
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Yeah. And I mean, just one final thing I just want to add on to this is that thus far, the furniture manufacturing industry has largely reacted negatively to these tariffs. Even the domestic makers have. It's been the situation where, on the one hand, they like the fact that there is this focus on domestic manufacturing, but the costs of all their fabric have gone up, the cost of their frames have gone up, the cost of their components have gone up. So they've been dealing with pressures, and also they're worried about the overall market. This one may actually be viewed a little bit more positively by some domestic upholstery makers because it focuses specifically on the category and the thing that they do. It's not like a broad based tariff on everything that comes out of a specific country. So it's. It's possible that these tariffs will be viewed more favorably by the US Industry. I don't know. It's been a very tepid reaction so far, but I'm hearing some people saying, well, maybe this one's good for me. I'm not betting too much on it yet. But there's some cautious optimism from local makers. But I don't know. Again, so much is in the details. We'll just have to stay on top of it.
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Absolutely. And you're certainly seeing the stocks of the publicly traded furniture companies trade lower for the most part. So, I mean, I think you can read what you will into that. But again, it's ever changing, so we'll have to keep an eye on it. Moving on, we're gonna talk about Spaces. The Bay Area shelter magazine is returning to print this winter, hitting newsstands again for the first time in six years. You wrote about this, Fred?
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Well, I'm originally from the Bay Area, so any opportunity to.
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Near and dear.
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Fred. It is near and dear. So, yeah. So Spaces is a shelter magazine originally formed as an extension of this thing called Marin magazine. Marin is the affluent suburb just to the north of San Franc, and it's like a lifestyle magazine for the region. Spaces came out in 2016. It was actually very. It was beloved by the San Francisco design community and had a good little run. But then the owners, the overall publication was bought by a new owner. They shelved it. And it's been out of print essentially since around 2020 or so. So the original founders of Marin magazine actually bought the whole publication back, and they want to relaunch Spaces. And so it's not maybe a national story, but certainly local designers are excited about this. They've got a lot of people, the Bay Area design scene on their advisory board. And I think that people are excited in that community to have a publication that's really specifically focused on the Bay Area market. So exciting to have it back.
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And why do you think we've talked about why the Bay Area doesn't get as much coverage as LA or other parts of California does. What is it about the Bay Area design scene that gets overlooked for every.
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Yeah, and I think that's part of why they want to restart spaces in print. I think it's because there's this sense of the Bay Area is a big market for interior design, but it's not really covered as closely by the national shelter media and maybe gets a little bit overlooked. It's interesting, actually. So longtime listeners of this podcast will know I have a weird little project where I keep track of the AD 100 year to year. And I was going back and looking at it, and especially in the early years, there was more designers from Mexico City and London than there were from San Francisco. It really is kind of a thing. I don't know. Am I wrong in thinking that there is a little bit of a, you know, a missing the Bay Area when it comes to the national media?
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Well, so are you. Are you suggesting, Fred, that there's some kind of design consistency conspiracy going on here?
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100%. I can announce here factually, there is a conspiracy.
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Fred has the numbers and yes, it. Well, so I wonder. All joking aside, I wonder why that is. I mean, and what designers say to you about why they think they're not getting as much coverage. I've got some people who have weighed in as well, so I'm eager to hear what you think.
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Yeah, well, I mean, I think a couple things. One is just that the media has been historically based in New York, so there is a heavy New York bias. We are certainly guilty of that. Architectural Digest started in la, and I think that there is also a culture of celebrity that causes people to want to have their homes published in la. And I think that leads to a lot of coverage there. And there hasn't really historically been that in San Francisco. Of course, the foundations of the city are different and the industry there is different. But the weird thing is there's a lot of money there and there's also a lot of good designers. So to some degree, it's always been a little bit confusing. I talked to people about it, and one of the main things that kept coming up actually was simply that clients there just really want to lock up designers with NDAs and do not want their homes published because they're tech executives and they want to keep a low profile. They have no incentive to get out there and be a celebrity. So several designers I spoke with just said that, yeah, like if you do work in the Bay Area, no matter how Good. It is. You're going to have to sign an NDA, so it's never going to get published anyway. But what have you been hearing?
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Well, it's funny because I had gotten a lovely note from a designer, Emily Cates, who had sent a nice note just about the show in general. And when I saw she was from the Bay Area, I asked her about this and said, so, what do you think? And at first she sort of joked and said, well, perhaps it's because we never had our own Real Housewives of San Francisco show, and maybe that's why we don't get the coverage. Which is a good point, Emily. But I think she also very much made the point that you were making about it's a lot of tech people and perhaps a little bit more private. But she also pointed out that it doesn't have sort of a classic San Francisco design style, the way Palm beach or Hollywood or places where you can sort of call to mind a look, and that maybe. And she said maybe some of the San Francisco spaces are a little less Instagrammable or feel a little bit more high design from that perspective. As you say, there's no shortage of talent there, but maybe it just doesn't have that more decorative look often associated with it. What do you think about that?
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Yeah, I mean, it could be. I wouldn't want to speak as a critic who has surveyed the entirety of Bay Area design and can issue a proclamation on it. There's a lot of different factors that go into it, but there is a lot of great Bay Area design stuff. I mean, Heath is based there, of course. Williams Sonoma, one of the most significant companies in the home industry, is a San Francisco company. Rh, of course, is a San Francisco company. So I kind of feel like I'm hopeful that spaces will make a splash. I'm hopeful that more San Francisco designers will rise to the top of the national scene, and maybe some clients will loosen up a little bit and not force their designers to sign NDAs, because I think there is a lot of really cool work being done, and I think it deserves to be seen. I say that as somebody from the Bay Area, so of course I'm going to say that, but I do think it's true.
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No, I couldn't agree more. And that's where the lovely Mrs. Scully hails from as well, and where. Where I'll be spending my. My Christmas holidays out in San Francisco. So I'll do some reporting there and see if I can come back with some greater insight. Moving on. We're going to talk about Miller Knoll.
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A
Fred let's talk about Miller.
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No.
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The company's latest earnings report revealed a modestly successful quarter, a 10% year over year increase in net sales. But on the other hand, tariffs, and there's the T word again, seem to be cutting into their margins a little bit. No surprise there. What do you make of all these numbers, Emma?
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Well, as you say, the top line numbers seemed really good at first, but then they started to walk a lot of things back and sort of began to lower expectations. The stock was actually down after the earnings numbers came out and I think that was largely because they're acknowledging the fact that margins are going to be under attack from the dreaded tariffs and they're planning a lot of expansion with the DWR operation. They've got a lot of openings coming, so there's a lot of money going out. What did you make of the numbers?
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Yeah, I think that seems right to me as well. As always, when I look at Miller Noel earnings, I like to hone in on Holly Hunt because that's always Holly Hunt is such an interesting company to be owned by Miller Knoll because of course it's such a big name in the interior design industry, but it's a little bit like, I don't want to say it's the black sheep of the family, but it doesn't exactly fit the mold of the other companies owned in the portfolio. I'm not sure if we ever covered this news on the podcast, but recently they did a reorganization where Holly Hunt was moved into the global retail group, putting it under the aegis of our friend Debbie Probst, who's been a former podcast guest and will probably come on again soon. It'll be interesting to see how it does there because it's always been a little bit of a an outlier to some degree in their family of brands.
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I agree, and I think Miller Knoll is a challenging company to analyze because they are in so many different businesses and they've tried to diversify and expand over the years. Much of the reasoning for the Knoll acquisition, which included Holly Hunt and lots of other to the trade brands, was to not be so focused on the office market space. And now they have a bunch of to the trade brands. They have this Herman Miller and DWR retail expansion that they're trying to bring to life in a meaningful way and quite aggressively looking at the number of store openings coming. But they do still have the office business. So it's a lot to look at when you're Trying to analyze these numbers. So bringing Holly Hunt into global retail, it moves at a very different pace. Anyone who's ever ordered, ordered something from Holly Hunt knows that you're not picking it up at the cash register on your way out the door.
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It's not a cash and carry operation.
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Yeah. And so it's just got a very different pace. And honestly, I think that is one of the big challenges for many of these companies that have such a diversified set of businesses under them to try and analyze. And I think part of the reason why the stock has struggled the way it has, because what should we focus on? Should we focus on people coming back to work? Should we focus on the retail or how the high end trade business is doing? Moving on, Fred. Believe it or not, we're going to come back to tariffs. Wait, what? Once again. So for this week's feature, Fred, you took a closer look at how the tariffs on kitchen cabinets and bathroom vanities could affect the design industry. And what'd you find?
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I found more tariffs. Underneath the tariffs, there are more tariffs. I think we should sort of break it down a little bit because earlier we were Talking about the 30% tariff imported upholstery, which we were sort of speculating. Well, is this a big deal? Is this not a big deal? Well, on kitchen cabinetry, it's 50%. Eventually on January 1st, it's going to be 50%. So that is a very big deal. Especially because, of course, kitchen cabinetry is very expensive. In some cases, these systems are tens of thousands of dollars. And so a 50% tariff is certainly a big one for the feature. I kind of dived into the kitchen cabinetry industry and tried to understand where do these numbers come from, who's pushing for these, who's pushing against them? And just trying to understand the ecosystem here because it is distinct, it's different than furniture.
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For sure, it is. And it sounded like there were many in this area of the market that were happy about these tariffs. Yes.
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Yeah. Well, I mean, that is kind of the key difference we've gotten so used to over the past four or five months. I mean, you'll recall a few weeks ago I wrote an article like, trying to find people who were excited about the tariffs. And I was really turning over rocks. And it was very difficult to find. Even the most domestic of domestic upholstery makers had very mixed feelings about them because of all the reasons we talked about before. So it was hard to find people who are really pro tariffs. That's not the case in the cabinetry, manufacturing Industry. There's a very strong industry group called the KCMA that lobbies aggressively for these tariffs. I spoke to one manufacturer company called Marsh, based out of High Point Point, who was saying that, look, there is a lot of overseas production of kitchen cabinetry at a very, very low price point. It floods the US Market, it drives prices down, and it has the potential to destroy a manufacturing industry here in the US that never really went away. And so they're feeling very much like we need these tariffs. We know they will not lower prices, but they're important to preserve this industry. And so they fought really hard for them, and now that they appear to be being rolled out, they're cheering them. For sure.
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B
They're cheering them. You know who's not cheering them is the home builders, is all the kitchen renovation people. Right. I mean, again, we're talking about inflation, but I mean, also, I think just a lot of confusion. But what, but what did you hear about that or what's your sense?
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A
Well, I mean, yeah, I think confusion is probably, you know, that's the overriding tone here because we don't know so much is in the details. Right. Like, will this affect Canada and Mexico? One thing I didn't realize is how much cabinetry is made in Canada. Canada. And a lot of designers rely on it. And if these tariffs affect Canada, then that will be very different than if they don't. So much of this really is in the details, but certainly the general consensus is that at the very high end, your Henry Bilts, your Christopher Peacock's, even your plain English's imported cabinetry, this won't really matter that much because the customer, the client who's shopping for that is already working with a domestic producer. In plain English's case, it's a European or an English company, but they only have a 10% tariff. So let's leave them aside. They're just not as price sensitive. They want what they want, and if it increases cost by a little bit, okay, so be it. But at the lower end, like the IKEA cabinetry and sort of the Home Depot level of cabinetry, this undoubtedly will raise prices. And because cabinets are expensive, it'll make building homes more expensive. And there's a lot of concern that this is only going to send inflation up and certainly not help our affordability crisis. When it comes to housing, it's a little bit of a mixed reaction depending on where you look in.
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B
Absolutely. And if you look at the shares of Home Depot and Lowe's, they've been. They've been going They've been going a lot lower since this news came out because this is obviously a meaningful market for them, and they are a big, big seller of just a lot of vanities and cabinets and. And, of course, and lumber. So, I mean, it's very challenging for them. And again, unfortunately, it's the everyday consumer that seems likely to be the most impacted by this.
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A
I will say, though, however, in speaking to the CEO of Marsh, this cabinetry company in North Carolina, it was really interesting because sometimes we get this perception that nobody's really pushing for these tariffs because of the hesitation around them in the furniture industry. But I think back to when Alex Schuffer was on the podcast and he was talking about how he thinks of his grandfather back in the 90s or early 80s or whatever, would have loved tariffs then. Protecting the case goods industry, while there was still a case goods industry to protect, I'm sure would have been welcomed at the time. It's just that at this point, there's nothing left to save. And so the tariffs are more disruptive than helpful to a lot of furniture people. I think a lot of the cabinetry people feel like, okay, well, there is still something left to save, so we have to. To take these aggressive measures to try and keep it here in the US So I'm sure there will be people who say that it's just protectionism, and I don't think there's any doubt that it will send up costs overall. But in speaking to this executive, it was really a reminder that there is a significant US Manufacturing operation, and it's worth thinking about that for sure.
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B
Yeah. And that's what tariffs are often used for, is to protect a key industry. And so I certainly understand everybody in that part of the industry celebrating, although I noticed that some of the key organizations around kitchen and bath weren't exactly giving clear statements about.
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A
I think, because it's so complicated, because of course, the dealers probably hate it because they're like, oh, well, you're going to make our prices go up. So I think you're referencing the nkba, which put out a statement that was much more. A little bit. Trying to not take sides and just talk about industry resilience overall. Because. Because I'm sure there's all kinds of feelings at different parts of the market.
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B
Absolutely. And we talk about housing affordability a lot on the show, and I think you talk to the home builders, and this doesn't help. And so again, we'll see where this all shakes out. These are big numbers. They are. So we'll see if they ultimately end up being what really comes to market. But this does have the potential to have a meaningful impact. Impact. We've got to move on, Fred, because there's a controversial color that we have to discuss.
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A
Yeah, you thought those would have a meaningful impact?
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B
Exactly.
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A
Let's talk about gray for house beautiful. Janae MacKenzie recently wrote about the color gray, including how it rose to popularity and just as quickly became a villain. Specifically the color Millennial gray, which is very meaningful to me because I am a millennial and I am going gray. So this one hits all. I understand you polled your Instagram followers about this. What are designers saying about gray right now, Dennis?
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B
Well, I mean, besides the many designers who just sent me angry emojis and shared their dislike for Millennial Gray, I think some were more thoughtful and thought that, yes, clients have evolved a little bit and moved towards towards brown or caramel. Elena Frampton of Frampton Co sent me a note and said that actually, even though we've been talking recently about more clients celebrating more color and British design, she thinks that might be a little bit exaggerated and that actually many clients tend to still like just a little pop of color and that maybe gray doesn't bother them quite as much or that other neutral colors don't really, really weigh on them in the same way that I think a lot of designers get worked up about. I don't know, there were some designers who suggested that maybe the pendulum swung too far and that gray can actually come back in a meaningful way because it is a good neutral.
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A
What are your thoughts? I have many thoughts. I do think the article nicely kind of points out how this theory that Millennial Gray is kind of a reaction to the yellowy, honey oaky tones of the 90s that people my age and a little bit younger all grew up, and gray kind of conveyed this sort of sophisticated, lightly industrial kind of scandi look that was popular for a time. And it's also just an easy color. I'm going to admit it. I have a gray sofa. It was an easy color to mix, and I think a lot of people are probably in a similar boat. So it's both utilitarian and there's sort of this cultural significance that I think resonates with a certain generation. I have to say, though, I feel like when you look at what's really popular in the Leading Edge of Design, I feel like it's already been over. I think about Kips Bay. I can't think of a single even gray detail that I can remember. It's A very colorful house. And the more kind of standard look right now, I feel like is the so called sad beige. The beige and the taupes. That feels to some degree a little bit like the cliche of the moment, not millennial gray, but I don't know. It's always tough. Colors are colors. They're going to be pop, going to be popular no matter what.
- [31:45]
B
Well, and I think we, and we've talked about this on the show before and I saw a little bit of some remarks that Leanne Ford was making recently about this issue of neutralizing your home for that next buyer. And she talked about not being a squatter in your own home. Go ahead and live there. And that gray represented that safe color that you could, you could paint the walls and the next buyer wouldn't be too offended by it. But, you know, right.
- [32:18]
A
I don't, I mean, I wouldn't advise color drenching in gray that has sort of a, you know, shades of institution. I don't know. But I agree, like, gray definitely fits in with the whole like house flipping core to some degree to do a lot of gray. I feel like it's over at this point, but maybe I'm wrong.
- [32:36]
B
I think that if it's as over as everyone thinks it is, it's probably just about to make a recover. You know, I think Jen Gracie from Gracie sent me that note to that very same effect. She said if everyone is talking it down, that it's probably just so buy it. Buy gray on the opening tomorrow and look for it to make a comeback. That's what Jen Gracie and I think. All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com including a look at fall trends and the latest industry hires. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break. This break is brought to you by Newport Brass, trusted by designers. For more than three decades, Newport Brass has handcrafted solid brass kitchen and bath faucets made to last for generations. With a palette of 22 finishes and endless configurations, Newport Brass gives every product presence, purpose and distinction. See what's possible@newportbrass.com Imagine having the hottest products in home furnishings right at your fingertips and at your doorstep in days. Imagine walking through a showroom where every turn of your head is an aha moment. And every turn of a corner takes you into a new world of inspiration. Stop imagining, imagining, and start experiencing. You'll find the best of today in the best place at High Point Market. Stop into the Chelsea House showroom at High Point Market, 200 North Hamilton, October 23rd through the 29th, or visit online@chelseahouseinc.com and we're back. I'm joined now by legendary interior designer Alexa Hampton, who is also joining us in her capacity as one of the chairs for the Kips Bay Decorator Show House, which is, as we'll talk about, celebrating its 50th anniversary. Alexa, thank you so much for joining me.
- [34:44]
C
Hi, I'm happy to be here.
- [34:46]
B
Well, it is great to have you and always a pleasure to talk with you. As you well know, we should before we jump into all sorts of fun stories about the many times that both you and your father father have done the Kips Bay Show House, we should tell listeners what the Kips Bay Show House is and its significance. Over the years, not everyone may have had the opportunity to come and visit.
- [35:11]
C
This is the 50th show house. The Show House is a major partner in the design industry of New York. New Yorkers have come to expect that designers every year come out, trot out our stuff on behalf of half of the Kips Bay Boys and Girls Club in the Bronx that serves 11,000 children and some of them at risk by giving them opportunities to learn robotics and to cook. And it has an amazing performing arts history and program. And the design community is thrilled and I'm going to speak for it, is thrilled to be able to have such a close relationship with a philanthropy that means something. This is is New Yorkers for New Yorkers. And in the many years that we have expanded, it is now national, international this year. So this year we have Ben Pentreath from the UK doing a room. We have people from Chicago. We have people from California, Florida, and it is a huge honor to be asked to be in the show house. And there's a fear factor quality to the Kips Bay Show House because you usually have about six weeks to tear out bathrooms and kitchens and throw up cabinetry and install plaster moldings and borrow, beg and steal. And then when the show house comes down, everything goes away and usually the property is sold.
- [36:42]
B
And it has always had such a level of importance. You tell me the early days when your father was doing, I think he was in the first few years that your father was involved. And there's this wonderful picture of your father sitting on a stairwell in his tuxedo with a group of legendary designers.
- [37:04]
C
You could often find my father in his formal wear on a step.
- [37:09]
B
Just sitting on some steps.
- [37:10]
C
Just sitting there. Yeah, sitting there. Some other legend he was cool that way.
- [37:15]
B
Yeah.
- [37:15]
C
No, I think the first room he did was with Alexandra Stoddard for macmillan.
- [37:20]
B
Okay.
- [37:21]
C
I'm curious to know how many macmillan has done how many show house rooms. They did a huge bite out of the show house last year, very successfully. But when I was in the third grade in Ms. Roberts class at school, Spence, our. Our field trip was to the Gibbs Bay Show House. Obviously. I mean, if anything could sound more weird and Upper east side, I certainly can't think of it. But obviously this had been created by my father. He'd been like, okay, well, sure, bring.
- [37:59]
B
All the kids over to the kids to the house.
- [38:03]
C
But as a result of that early, early exposure, it has been very much in my mind forever. The Kips Bay Show House is just a thing that is very New York. It usually happens in May, though, because of real estate kerfuffles and crosswires. It's happening this year in the fall.
- [38:23]
B
Right. And to your point, it usually happens on the Upper east side and had become legendary in its own means for that. But this year, a very different. Different location. Down. Down on West 12th. And kind of a. Kind of a cool West Village vibe.
- [38:40]
C
Very cool.
- [38:41]
A
Right.
- [38:41]
C
I. I very much would love to live in this area, but my window of cool was very slender and it passed. So I am stuck in midtown. But, yeah, it's in a really great neighborhood. And hopefully we're capturing a lot of visitors who are new to the notion of the Kips Bay Show House and getting to see it. And new. We are a growing thing. The show house should be everywhere. We've been uptown on 120th. Now we've been on 12th. It's very exciting.
- [39:15]
B
It is very exciting. And I think that the spaces themselves just force you to make different decisions. Right. And different things are possible or not possible.
- [39:26]
C
Yeah. As you know, I was just reading something this morning that Vicente Wolf was saying that so many things that he had ordered. Ordered were either unavailable or just didn't come in. That the. The result was his room had a, quote, spontaneity. But he was psyched about it. And certainly the room looks great. So I loved his attitude. And that that is. It is a fact. Those things happen. I know somebody came in with, I think Charles Pavarini in his Zoom room that he designed upstairs, came in with a huge slab of marble, and it just fit up the stairs. So back it went to the marble yard to be cut down.
- [40:06]
B
And there must have been so many things like that. And as you say, what is remarkable about what the decorators and designers who do Kips Bay is their ability to pivot at a moment's notice. This isn't coming. That's no longer available. Somebody was telling me the fabric that they had chosen originally, not there. I mean, they were just one thing after another.
- [40:29]
C
You say pivot, I say we keep our needs knees bent.
- [40:33]
B
Yes.
- [40:34]
C
Keep them bent so that we can go wherever we need to at a moment's notice.
- [40:39]
B
Well, so thinking back to when you were a young girl at Spence, those.
- [40:45]
C
Happy, happy days, as your eyebrows are shooting up with what I can only assume is scorn.
- [40:52]
B
Well, no, no, no, no. I was always very fond of Spence girls. Listen, going to Buckley, you were just happy to see girls. So, I mean, right?
- [40:59]
C
Oh, my God, the Buckley boys. Yay.
- [41:02]
B
Yes. So I was quite partial. But I wonder, what did you make at the time of here's your father working on this prestigious show house. Did you really. And did your classmates really understand what this was all about in this world?
- [41:21]
C
I mean, do we even now understand what it's all about? Certainly. And we were all forced to write thank you notes to my father when we got got back to school.
- [41:30]
B
I love that.
- [41:32]
C
I'm sure my classmates are like, dear stinking Mr. Hampton, thanks all for making.
- [41:37]
B
Us go to that house.
- [41:40]
C
What are we there for? I don't know what they made of it, but, you know, my family is lousy with design enthusiasts. We're everywhere. So for me, it could not have been more normal. And this was, again, if you are a design enthusiast, the year that that was, was. Was a year in which he did a beautiful dark brown room with white slip covers. And it is the. It is opposite in the book of Kips Bay, the 50 years of Kips Bay. It is opposite Jim Druckmann's dedication. So it's a really great room to see right out of the gate. But there have been so many great rooms. I. I know, obviously, Mario's rooms. I know Bunny's rooms. Corey Damon Jenkins has just blazed all kinds of Kips Bay.
- [42:30]
B
Absolutely.
- [42:30]
C
So, so many wonderful talents, so many epic design terms. It's really. It's great. And it's great that, you know, people have complex feelings about show houses and decorating. And is it frivolous and is it expensive? And what is the. What is the message? But the message is we're putting on a show for 11,000 kids in the Bronx. And that is a wonderful merge of. It's a cleansing of what could otherwise feel complicated. But it's meaningful. And frankly, I consider this an audition for my future clients, those students in the Bronx. So I'm trying to impress them so that they hire me in 10 or 15 years.
- [43:15]
B
Well, I mean, interestingly, it often has been as a launch pad for people's careers. And I feel like some rooms and even some staircases in the history of Kitts Bay. Right. Have just been so memorable that they become iconic and almost an indicator of that specific time period and all that it was about.
- [43:39]
C
And I know exactly what staircase you're probably referring to. Sasha Bykoff's incredible Memphis style staircase. And I was in that show house that year, and I remember an older woman coming in and not getting the staircase. And she came to me as a traditionalist myself and said, oh, you know, what's happening with that stairs? And I was like, it's magnificent. Don't come to me looking for anything other than total props for Sasha.
- [44:12]
B
Yeah.
- [44:13]
C
And it was also great for the show house because it was so talked about and so new and exciting. It got so many people to come to the show house to see it. And I think as a consequence of it, she went on to design with Versace and did all kinds of things. It was a calling card of her bravery, her mastery of the style she adopted for the show.
- [44:37]
B
And.
- [44:38]
C
And I mean, it just showed. Look what this lady can do. So the. The wisdom is you either decorate like you want to decorate, you know, to. To show what your quote unquote style is, or you swing for the fences. And those are the two distinct ways you. You go about show house decorating. And if you're lucky enough, you get to do at least one of each at some point in your life, you know, if you're lucky enough to do.
- [45:04]
B
It well and you've had the opportunity. So I can't remember how many show houses your father had done.
- [45:10]
C
I mean, let's assume a thousand, let's say, right?
- [45:14]
B
It was a big number. He had done a lot. And then. And then. Do you remember when you did your first Kips Bay show?
- [45:22]
C
Yes, I do. No, it was Lenon Lewis, who is doing a beautiful room this year in the show house. He and I were in the class of 99. That was our first show house together, and we shared a cord of firewood. I saw his. He reminds me of this story. I saw his empty fireplace, and I was like, Mr. Lewis, certainly you need some firewood. Can I lend you some? And he was like, okay. And it is like graduating class. Each year, the designers have that special bond because we've gone through A of ton together.
- [46:01]
B
So 1999 was the. 1999 was the first one. And you were. And you were stepping into so many things at the time. You were stepping into your father's business and.
- [46:12]
C
Yeah, so it was a year after my father had died.
- [46:16]
B
Yes.
- [46:17]
C
And so I was very much decorating in that show house to have people see that I could decorate properly.
- [46:27]
A
Yeah.
- [46:27]
C
You know, that wasn't a razzmatazz show house for me. That was I am Mark Hampton's daughter and I'm not totally insane. And it was a great show house.
- [46:36]
B
And it was a great show house. And I mean much was written about it at the time and it seemed as though your messaging worked. Right. And everyone saw that room and thought, yes, okay, she can carry this on. Which was such a huge undertaking on your part, perhaps.
- [46:52]
C
All I remember was Marianes Gomez had the most beautiful living room that year. And Scott Salvatore had a gorgeous dining room with tons of awning stripes. And Thomas o' Brien was upstairs and he had a wonderful rug from Tony Mott who owns Crosby Street Studio, who did my rug this year. So still so many correspondences.
- [47:14]
B
Yes.
- [47:14]
C
Yeah, look at that. Good stuff.
- [47:16]
B
Well, so tell me about your room that you did this year. I mean I've spent time with you in it and it's a beautiful room, but tell me there's stories within so many stories.
- [47:26]
C
The room was inspired by an Oscar de la rental dress which was Transformed by the company 22 into two distinct fabrics that they created digitally using the dress. And they are on the curtains and on the bed. The bed which has a storied past. It was the Duchess of Marlborough's and then it was my parents bed for 40 years in Southampton. And it is a queen size bed. And I told you my father described kids beds as vulgar, which I find so funny. It's such a. Such a big opinion to have. Like it's so mean.
- [48:03]
B
Exactly. Such a strong word to use to describe it.
- [48:07]
C
It carries judgment.
- [48:09]
B
Yes.
- [48:10]
C
So when it left Southampton to cede to a king size bed, it couldn't just go away. This bed is magnificent. So that is the core of the room, which is very traditional and what I like to describe as unabashedly pretty. And then it is brought into the modern day by the Crosby Street Studio Scandinavian rug, Thomas Englehart's paper mantle. And to anyone listening, that is such a head scratcher that you're simply going to have to come exactly yourself.
- [48:45]
B
Reason alone to come to the house is to the paper mantle.
- [48:48]
C
The paper mantle and my Friend Celia Rogge, who did a beautiful, subversive trompe l' oeil photograph of a mirror. And so, so many people. Hyde park moldings. Anthony Lawrence Belfair did the bed. The shade store, of course, did the curtains. I'm, like, thinking, thinking, thinking. Galerie Delam sconces, tons of custom lamps. Now I sound like I'm giving an Oscar acceptance speech. I'll stop.
- [49:16]
B
Well, no, you know, I'm trying to think about what it meant to do the Kips Bay Show House when your father was doing it. You know, was it. It was it. And. And if you have insight as to how your father thought about it, was he. Was he thinking this was helpful to get work? Was it. Was it a press thing?
- [49:35]
C
No, it. I did not have to be told to feel that he was incredibly honored to be a part of it. And there were sort of that whispering, sepulchral seriousness when you walked in. People were, you know, very amazing. Decorators were preening and so excited to be a part of it. And that is very much still the case. You have to be invited. You need to submit a portfolio. It is thrilling to be asked. And it, as you said, it's an opportunity. And I'm glad it's an opportunity because it's also an expense to be a part of. And you've got a, you know, the best thing is always, like, a small room. A small room is amazing because then you can just jewel box it out. But anything is amazing. To be asked is. Is a real honor. And Dan Quintero, who runs Kids Boys and Girls Club in the Bronx, and Jim Druckman, who is the president of its board, and all of us will tell you, if anybody has a chance to go and look at the kids today, Boys and Girls Club. It is an amazing place, and it's so inspirational. And these kids are brilliant. And what they're doing is, you know, I'm like, how I get myself into that program. Can someone let this old lady in? What they're teaching is extraordinary. And these are. This is, you know, New York's future leaders and citizens, and it's great to be part of that citizenry.
- [51:08]
B
Yeah. No, no. And I'm so glad that you tied it back with that, because I think for many years, people didn't realize the connection and what it was. And now there's such a better understanding of the incredible charity and the work that that organization does to help the 11,000 children, as you were saying earlier. And so it really does give a lot back. Are there funny Stories or fun memories that you call to mind from the past.
- [51:43]
C
You know, all of that, all of the memories are happy after the fact.
- [51:47]
B
Yeah.
- [51:47]
C
When you're going through it. I've many times over the years threatened to print T shirts that say, it's not Kips Bay if you're not crying.
- [51:54]
B
Sure.
- [51:55]
C
Just because of the fear factor element. But it is, after the, the hurdles, it's just all fun. All fun.
- [52:03]
B
Yeah. I mean, it, it. There's an intense pressure. As we were saying earlier. There are so many things that at the last minute, I remember in that house a couple of years ago ago, a woman had two mirrors in her room and one of the mirrors had broken with the first delivery and they had to quickly rush. I mean, it's another reminder too, and Jim Druckmann and I were talking about this last night, that it shows you what you can get done in such a short period of time and what people are capable of doing. The number of high gloss ceilings in this year's house is extraordinary. And those are not easy to do.
- [52:40]
C
Yeah, no. And by the way, all of this was going on in construction with no air conditioning.
- [52:45]
B
Exactly.
- [52:46]
C
Which was incredible.
- [52:48]
B
Well, it's an incredible group. And we mustn't leave out Nazeera, who plays such a huge role.
- [52:56]
C
Yeah. She runs all of the Kips Bay show houses in New York, Palm beach and Dallas. But she gets in then. And, and for designers who want to do Kips Bay, I would say by all means, send in your portfolio and until Kips Bay comes a call in, do other show houses too. You know, work, work through it. Because show houses are a particular animal and it is good to maybe have seen the lay of the land before you get to the big daddy, Kips. And it's a great way to get out there. It's a great way for people to see your work. Obviously, we, we don't, as a profession, we don't really advertise. So it's always a good way to get yourself out there and to feel like you're doing good. Because most show houses do benefit an organization or other.
- [53:47]
B
Yeah. And you're a big believer in doing show houses and getting yourself out there.
- [53:52]
C
And being a good, being a good community member. That's always good juju. You know, you want to be a good contributor, contributor to your, your people always. Whether that is New Yorkers or the design community or the wonderful vendors we work with. Hopefully, you know, it's extremely important to celebrate all of those vendors, craftsmen, artisans, artists, and make sure everybody who Comes through, sees their work, and hopefully they get new followers. New. That sounds like, I mean, social media, but I don't. You know what I mean? New fans, people, frequent designer people frequently. You'll either hear someone saying they're upset because they got a big room or hear someone saying they're upset because it's got a small room. So you know that you just, you get what you get and you don't get upset. You come in, you write down, you know, three or four spaces you really want to do, and then it goes into a lottery. So sometimes, you know, sometimes it, you are not matched with your heart's desire. But as Mr. Wolf said, spontaneity will be your God. Right?
- [55:00]
B
Well, exactly. And listen, I mean, as we say, it has definitely launched careers and often it was a stairwell or a powder.
- [55:08]
C
Room or, I mean, and especially stairwells are difficult. And I can think of quite a few in recent memory that were knockouts. So it is, is bringing to life the less obvious spaces that's very memorable.
- [55:26]
B
And often I think can demonstrate what you can do with a challenging space, which is, I think. Right. I mean, and that deft hands. Yes, yes, indeed. Alexa, you're so kind to make the time. Here we are. It's just the day after the opening of the show house. People were pouring through your room last night.
- [55:47]
C
I would like our listeners to know that I am at the show house right now, now, crouched in an out of service bathroom, sitting on a toilet, doing this podcast with you. Granted, the seat is covered. I'm not using it, I'm just sitting on it. But that is how much I want to talk to Dennis Gulley.
- [56:08]
B
Well, and I am so grateful to you for that. And I will take you in any room in any state. I really, I'm just incredibly grateful. And, and I thank you so, and, and, and, and I congratulate you again for your room. And I congratulate Kips Bay on the huge anniversary. And thank you again for making the time.
- [56:27]
C
Thank you.
- [56:32]
B
And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here, but before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye?
- [56:40]
A
Chada caught my eye. Our friends down in North Carolina, you know, we, we talked a few months ago about sort of the Sad demise of E.J. victor, you know, a company that they had a horrible flood because of Hurricane Helene and they weren't able to restart the business. And they, you know, they just recently announced that they were permanently shuttering. But what I've noticed is that chadduck has actually picked up some of their like they have the Allison Palladino line that we used to be done by E.J. victor, now Chadic is producing it. I believe that they were able to hire some people from E.J. victor. So, you know, certainly not a happy ending for EJ Victor, but nice to know that some of the designs that were produced there have moved on, some of the employees have moved on. So a little bit of a silver lining, you know, to in an unfortunate story and I'm glad to see that they're in good hands with chadduck. What caught your eye this week?
- [57:24]
B
Thomas A couple of things caught my eye. First, the giant October issue of British House and Garden arrived at my house and I had to laugh, Fred, because recently we were talking about luxury and how all the magazines used to say, no, no, this one is the luxury issue. This issue is the big design and decoration issue. Wait, aren't they all big design and decoration issues, but this one, even bigger. And you know what? I have to say, it actually delivers in a huge way. Designers are going to want to get their hands on copies of this if they don't already subscribe because it is jam packed with product. And in the conversation I had with Sarah Spiteri, we were talking about how both the ads and the editorial, when they're done right, can can really be equally meaningful to the reader. And that is certainly the case with this issue. It is just packed with product and also a lot of just designer collaborations with different companies. There's a Design 100 list that is as much about product as it is about the designers behind it. So it's a really sort of standout issue. I have to say, it's pretty impressive. And again, those British magazines, I just feel like they are giving us a rock.
- [58:38]
A
Is there any gray in it, Dennis? Any gray?
- [58:40]
B
There is no gray. It's so warm and friendly and inviting. No millennial gray here. The other thing that I wanted to mention is that next week I will be in Chicago. That's right. Tuesday, October 7th from 5 to 7pm I will be in the Serena and Lily Chicago Design Shop. So come and see me there. We're going to be doing a fun panel talking about art and women in art particularly. So I'm really looking forward to that. But I'm especially excited to be in Chicago. I've been eager to get there, so I look forward to seeing hopefully lots of people there to kick off the big Design Chicago events that will be going on. All right, that's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings or take a workshop, visit us online@businessofhome.com if you want to get in touch with the show, write to us@podcastusinessofhome.com this episode was produced by Fred Nicolas and Caroline Burke and and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend and we'll be back with you on Monday.